How do you feel about Clark telling Chloe Everyone Else's Secret.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Originally posted by celita
I realise that she is the Mary Sue of the show, the hero is suposed to be Clark, and Clark ALONE. I understand that they created Chloe and love her and it´s easy have her like plot devise and that, but the truly and ONLY hero of this show is Clark Kent. Not Chloe, MM or Oliver Queen, just Clark Kent. The others can help him sometimes if you want, but there´s ONLY 1 hero here. Cause this is superman´s journey, not the LJ´s one.

I meant
Clark= Hero
Lex= Villain
Lana= Damsel in Distress/Love interest
Chloe= Heroin

Never wanted to debunk the BDA

[celita]

I meant
Clark= Hero
Lex= Villain
Lana= Damsel in Distress/Love interest
Chloe= Heroin
Never wanted to debunk the BDA

Yes i know, but like i said: We must have JUST ONE HERO in the show. If you delete "heroin" and write "friend", that´s what i want.

Chloe qualify more as a sidekick than as an heroine and it is just not me thinking that..ask the people who nominated her as best SIDECKICK at the Teen Choice Awards and Oliver Queen (a.k.a. the writer of SMALLVILLE who wrote that line) in Justice said that too Oliver: "Let's stick to the main point sidekick"

and I didn't know that Chloe's destiny was already written cause last time I checked being at the top of the DP and on Clark's side was Lois Lane´s destiny (EDlois may I clarify). In fact the only one whom destiny isn´t writen yet is Chloe.


You can also fanwank that another reason for the outing is that if Bart likes Chloe so much she could brake up with Jimmy and start dating Bart and she will end up in the same position that Lois is and Lana was so he kind of gave her knowlegde before she entered in that situation and could make an honest choice...Again fankwanking because is interesting.

The last time they had a date Chloe wasn´t very impresed by Bart and she was single, now she has a boyfriend that made her happy. Why would Chloe fall in love with Bart now?, and in that case Clark should wait until she tells him "hey Clark I think that Bart likes me"

[myankskent]

Originally posted by xrayvision

Someone else posted that in early seasons how Clark & Chloe worked together on stories and theories of freaks and such without any of the BS hacking, reverse engineering, stealth operations. I sorely miss those days. That is how the Clark-Chloe friendship was meant to be. It's a shame how badly they distorted it.

The issue with the first few seasons was that Clark always had to be one step ahead of Chloe since she couldn't find out his secret. The investigations were done by both characters and then at the end, it was Clark who usually solved the problem since Chloe couldn't be there to witness his powers. Once Chloe found out about Clark, they put her on even ground with Clark and started to abuse Chloe's character to create shortcuts for Clark to save people. It's only gotten worse as time has gone on because TPTB continually elevate Chloe's character and in the process, Clark looks bad. TPTB really force Chloe into the show and have her be a part of things, but the thing that TPTB fail to realize is that by having Chloe become a part of things all of the time and by having Clark continually go to Chloe for help, it makes Clark look stupid and Chloe the one with the brains.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Originally posted by celita
Yes i know, but like i said: We must have JUST ONE HERO in the show. If you delete "heroin" and write "friend", that´s what i want.

Must fiction works has this scheme in the treatment of the characters so there is place for the hero and the heroin on the show.


Chloe qualify more as a sidekick than as an heroine and it is just not me thinking that..ask the people who nominated her as best SIDECKICK at the Teen Choice Awards and Oliver Queen (a.k.a. the writer of SMALLVILLE who wrote that line) in Justice said that too Oliver: "Let's stick to the main point sidekick"

Well Clark has been called a sidekick as well on the show and that doesn't make it into one. And sidekicks rarely save the hero and the villain of the story so this plus another things turn her in the heroin or female hero if you prefer...


and I didn't know that Chloe's destiny was already written cause last time I checked being at the top of the DP and on Clark's side was Lois Lane´s destiny (EDlois may I clarify). In fact the only one whom destiny isn´t writen yet is Chloe.
You'll see...


The last time they had a date Chloe wasn´t very impresed by Bart and she was single, now she has a boyfriend that made her happy. Why would Chloe fall in love with Bart now?, and in that case Clark should wait until she tells him "hey Clark I think that Bart likes me"
The never really dated they just were togheter on The Talon and shared a couple of hours when Bart ask her to date she turned him down and the fact that she is with Jimmy doesn't mean she couldn't be window shopping and he wasn't going to let things any further before telling her all...Like I told you is just fanwank.

[celita]

Must fiction works has this scheme in the treatment of the character so there is place for the and the heroin on the show.

Must fiction isn´t about superman, The most powerful hero and the lead of the heroes (just Batman and Wonder woman can be near of him).


You'll see...

I don´t think so.

[SV_Ingo]

Originally posted by Deana
I hated it. Clark disappointed me so much this episode.

If Ollie ran of and told his bestfriend Clark's sercret Clark would most likely cut all ties with him.
Agree. On the other hand, it was surprising that it didn't bother Ollie that much ...

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
Again to each its own... you might have a problem with Chloe or the fact that she is a female or the fact that Clark is not alone, but the point is that Chloe help was needed and Clark thouh she will be useful to the team and I happen to agree.

Well now you're just putting words in my mouth.

My opinion is this:

Suppose instead of Ollie, that the JLA was headed by Bruce Wayne and Watchtower was Barbara Gordon. If before joining the JLA, Bruce would tell each member about Barbara & her role as Watchtower and how she will know all their ID's and have them decide if they want to join based on that info, then I wouldn't mind. Because everyone would know the conditions beforehand and because Barbara would have been trained for the operations that the JLA would perform.

I don't think the Watchtower role was necessary, and if it was, I wouldn't mind if it was someone else (male or female) as long as everyone who joined knew from beforehand that whoever was Watchtower would know their secrets.

My problems are with the following:

1. Clark gave away Bart's secret when he is the biggest preacher of why secrets shouldn't be given away. This is the main issue of this thread.

2. Clark didn't have to give the secret away. Even if he wanted Chloe's help, he could have done it without exposing Bart as many have said in this thread. He broke the cardinal rule & code of superheroes and exposed one of his own. This is very anti-season 6 (as in Rage, Fallout, Arrow, and all the others).

3. By relying on Chloe in an episode that was supposed to have the superheroes shine, Clark regressed and showed that he can't do anything without Chloe, when this series is close to ending & he is very close to becoming Superman.

4. Chloe does not have the qualifications to be Watchtower. I am not saying this based on any kind of bias, but instead based on the facts shown. I have never seen any episode in which Chloe got any kind of training on anything she did outside of writing articles, which is her natural talent. Had they presented a reformed Molly Griggs, as seen in the Vengeance Chronicles, as Watchtower, I wouldn't have a problem. Why? Because she was revealed to be a whiz kid in the area of engineering & technology. Seeing a 19-20 year old reporter operate a satellite seemed ridiculous to me. If they want to throw her into action scenes, then they should have her in scenes like the one in Truth where she broke into the Luthorcorp plant (just do it without her trying to expose Clark as she did in that episode). I have been waiting to see more action scenes like that with Chloe. I was satisfied with Hydro, except for the part where she found out that Ollie was the GA thanks to Jimmy's blabbing.

5. Chloe's role in helping find Bart was finding out that Lex purchased material (like those high velocity sensors) to build Bart's cell and where that material was delivered. A person who knows that any evidence of what he's doing with 33.1 would spell the end for Luthorcorp and land him in jail would keep that kind of stuff off the books. So by wanting to include Chloe into the team and make her useful by finding this out, they made Lex appear as an idiotic fool who can't hide what he's doing. It would have made Lex & the heroes appear more competent if Lex hid that info in one of his facilities that the heroes themselves would have to break into to find.

I have a parallel here: Chloe being shown to operate that satellite without any development to how she learned to do such a thing just to include her in the team is as ridiculous as creating a stupid witch storyline just to include Lana in the search for the stones in season 4. Both suck.

These are my problems in Clark telling Chloe about Bart's secret and for TPTB to include her in the JLA team. It's not for any of the reasons you think I have. I like Chloe, and think they should keep her within the boundaries of her role---friend to Clark. It's when they start writing characters outside the boundaries of their roles that the hero & villian of the story tend to get portrayed in a degrading manner.

I don't think we'll ever agree on this, so I have nothing else to say after this.

[celita]

I´m totally agree with you xrayvision

[liutku]

i think clark owed the whole truth to chloe and now he is understanding that. besides, choe knew about Green Arrow, Ac and cyborg, so.... how many time had spent till chloe would find out about bart???
\ñ/

[Ania]

I agree, xrayvision.

[Kalella]

edited out


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[Meteor-Freakazoid]

It doesn't really matter, because Chloe is a character that's completely new for Smallville. It's not like they had to skew the mytholgy of the Superman story when she came to the knowledge that Clark was in fact an alien. Why would it make a difference if she new the others secrets? Besides, Chloe is probably the most trustworthy person on the show.

[freefall]

Originally posted by Meteor-Freakazoid
It doesn't really matter, because Chloe is a character that's completely new for Smallville. It's not like they had to skew the mytholgy of the Superman story when she came to the knowledge that Clark was in fact an alien. Why would it make a difference if she new the others secrets? Besides, Chloe is probably the most trustworthy person on the show.

The problem here has absolutely nothing to do with Chloe, there's NO blame upon her. NONE at all.

In fact, I'd definitely agree in a heartbeat with the notion that Chloe is probably the most trustworthy person on the show right now, and has proven herself on this matter over and over again. Even when it strains her own relationship with Clark regarding Lana's secrets (her hooking up with Lex and her pregnancy), she still doesn't even think of breaking Lana's trust.

But this thread is all about Clark violating the principle of telling someone else's secret. Even if everyone keeps saying that it's to save Bart's life, he could have easily achieve the same thing without spilling the beans at all.

Especially when Justice is right after Hydro, they've made a very huge point towards the audience about not telling secrets that aren't yours.

When you see Chloe being dragged into this, we DON'T pin anything on her at all. The fault and blame wholly rest on TPTB alone, because once again they have to make Clark look lesser as Superman and his ideals at the expense of Chloe. As yet another plot device, this time to showcase "the enormity of Clark's trust for Chloe", and "how Clark and the JL couldn't have anything without Chloe". That's a very terrible mistake on their part.

I thought xrayvision's post has made it very clear on this.

[darkraya]

she already knew about ac and victor. she found out the truth about olliver, but not b-cause of clark. and i think she had the right to know about bart since he saved her life.

[freefall]

Originally posted by darkraya
she already knew about ac and victor. she found out the truth about olliver, but not b-cause of clark. and i think she had the right to know about bart since he saved her life.

There's no problem at all in knowing about other people's secret inadvertently or due to circumstances, which is the case with AC, Victor and Oliver. Even Chloe got to know about Clark's powers in the first place is because of Alicia.

And going by the logic of your last sentence, then everyone and their mother on this show has the right to know Clark's secret because he has saved them only God knows how many times.

Again by applying that logic, Lana and Lex should be the top of the list of people who should know about Clark right now.

[kiariclois]

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton

Err. do you realize that Chloe is the heroin of the show don't you?


There's NO heroine in Smallville... If there is a heroine, I would have to say that it's Lana... NOT CHLOE... I really don't like Lana but it's the truth... she is the heroine in this current season...


I'm amused to see the posts here... Most people keep on saying that it's was okay for Clark to act unsuperhero (telling other people secret)... and I realised it's all because they say Chloe should know... and because they need to help Bart... bacause Chloe's trustworthy... This is stupid... Clark could ask for Chloe's help without telling the fact that Bart could ran really fast... and she still could figured it out herself... That would be okay...

I agree with xrayvision about this matter... I don't think we'll ever agree on this... Yeah... I suppose that there would be no end to the BDA thing... and people would still agree when he makes mistake...

I really am dissapointed with Clark about this matter... Dont get me wrong... I have no objection with Clark asking for Chloe's help... the 'telling other people secret' issue is the only that bother me...

[khufu]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I don't think the Watchtower role was necessary, and if it was, I wouldn't mind if it was someone else (male or female) as long as everyone who joined knew from beforehand that whoever was Watchtower would know their secrets.I think you're quite wrong about not needing someone in that role. There was no time for them to have memorized the layout - they had to assemble immediately because now both Bart and Clark were in trouble. And because they had 3 agendas (save Clark/Bart - likely in different locations, plant the explosives, and download the info from the mainframe) there was no way in the world they could have been able to coordinate themselves while basically roaming around blindly through the halls.

3. By relying on Chloe in an episode that was supposed to have the superheroes shine, Clark regressed and showed that he can't do anything without Chloe, when this series is close to ending & he is very close to becoming Superman.First of all, you just said that you would have had no problem with it if the JLA were ok with Chloe knowing, and now you do have a problem with it? And honestly, I think you missed the whole point of Justice. Like it or not, the importance of teamwork, and not trying to go it alone, was emphasized all throughout the episode. And yet you're going to say it makes Clark look bad to rely on someone?

4. Chloe does not have the qualifications to be Watchtower. I am not saying this based on any kind of bias, but instead based on the facts shown.Really? She's not qualified to look at a screen and say "turn left, go right, there's a door up ahead"? She didn't do any special hacking, everything was already setup at Oliver's place - he already had the schematics loaded. All she did was guide them.

I have never seen any episode in which Chloe got any kind of training on anything she did outside of writing articles, which is her natural talent.I've never seen an episode in which Lana or Lois got any kind of training in martial arts - does that mean they don't know any? Just because TPTB didn't waste screen time showing us how Chloe got to be good with computers doesn't meant she doesn't have that skill. The fact of the matter is she's been doing this - for us to see onscreen - since the first season, why is it all of a sudden unbelievable because we've never witnessed her training first hand???

Had they presented a reformed Molly Griggs, as seen in the Vengeance Chronicles, as Watchtower, I wouldn't have a problem. Why? Because she was revealed to be a whiz kid in the area of engineering & technology.MOLLY GRIGGS???? Are you kidding me? Yeah, she was a wiz kid - and a psychopath! She tried to kill Chloe in Delete, and do you remember the last time a Superhero trusted her? It was the Angel of Vengeance in the Vengeance Chronicles, and look how honest and loyal she was to AoV - Molly was just using her in order to try and murder Lex (which even Nick had a change of heart about). You can't just bring her back and say "oh she's reformed now" and expect Clark to trust her, that's preposterous. And why even risk it, when Clark Kent has already vouched for the trustworthiness of someone else by recommending she be included. Bringing Molly would have been the single worst decision in the history of Smallville.

Originally posted by kiariclois
There's NO heroine in Smallville... If there is a heroine, I would have to say that it's Lana... NOT CHLOE... I really don't like Lana but it's the truth... she is the heroine in this current season...That's simply wrong. And I think looking at the actual definition of the word "heroine" can be useful here:

a woman of distinguished courage or ability, admired for her brave deeds and noble qualities.
the principal female character in a story, play, film, etc.The primary definition describes Chloe more than any other female on the show. And like it or not, Chloe is the principal female on Smallville - she is the female who is most important to the storyline from week to week, whereas the sole purpose for Lana on the show now is to be someone's girlfriend and cause a rift between Clark and Lex. She doesn't help Clark solve mysteries, save lives, or hunt down Zoners, that role is played by the show's heroine, Chloe.

[ShelbyKent]

I think from a storytelling point of view, it was convenient and necessary for AlMiles to let Chloe know about the JL and the JL members secret identities. I think the JL and the search for the 33.1 global facilities will pop-up again in the future eppies. Clark would eventually need Chloe's assistance in said future eppies and it would be awkward if Clark mentions Cyborg, Impulse and the other JL members and all Chloe could do is say "Huh? Who?". Then the script would have to devote some time to make Clark explain the JL's existence to Chloe. Justice was a good opportunity to involve Chloe with the JL's activities in an interesting and efficient manner.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Well now you're just putting words in my mouth.

My opinion is this:

Suppose instead of Ollie, that the JLA was headed by Bruce Wayne and Watchtower was Barbara Gordon. If before joining the JLA, Bruce would tell each member about Barbara & her role as Watchtower and how she will know all their ID's and have them decide if they want to join based on that info, then I wouldn't mind. Because everyone would know the conditions beforehand and because Barbara would have been trained for the operations that the JLA would perform.

I don't think the Watchtower role was necessary, and if it was, I wouldn't mind if it was someone else (male or female) as long as everyone who joined knew from beforehand that whoever was Watchtower would know their secrets.

My problems are with the following:

1. Clark gave away Bart's secret when he is the biggest preacher of why secrets shouldn't be given away. This is the main issue of this thread.

2. Clark didn't have to give the secret away. Even if he wanted Chloe's help, he could have done it without exposing Bart as many have said in this thread. He broke the cardinal rule & code of superheroes and exposed one of his own. This is very anti-season 6 (as in Rage, Fallout, Arrow, and all the others).

3. By relying on Chloe in an episode that was supposed to have the superheroes shine, Clark regressed and showed that he can't do anything without Chloe, when this series is close to ending & he is very close to becoming Superman.

4. Chloe does not have the qualifications to be Watchtower. I am not saying this based on any kind of bias, but instead based on the facts shown. I have never seen any episode in which Chloe got any kind of training on anything she did outside of writing articles, which is her natural talent. Had they presented a reformed Molly Griggs, as seen in the Vengeance Chronicles, as Watchtower, I wouldn't have a problem. Why? Because she was revealed to be a whiz kid in the area of engineering & technology. Seeing a 19-20 year old reporter operate a satellite seemed ridiculous to me. If they want to throw her into action scenes, then they should have her in scenes like the one in Truth where she broke into the Luthorcorp plant (just do it without her trying to expose Clark as she did in that episode). I have been waiting to see more action scenes like that with Chloe. I was satisfied with Hydro, except for the part where she found out that Ollie was the GA thanks to Jimmy's blabbing.

5. Chloe's role in helping find Bart was finding out that Lex purchased material (like those high velocity sensors) to build Bart's cell and where that material was delivered. A person who knows that any evidence of what he's doing with 33.1 would spell the end for Luthorcorp and land him in jail would keep that kind of stuff off the books. So by wanting to include Chloe into the team and make her useful by finding this out, they made Lex appear as an idiotic fool who can't hide what he's doing. It would have made Lex & the heroes appear more competent if Lex hid that info in one of his facilities that the heroes themselves would have to break into to find.

I have a parallel here: Chloe being shown to operate that satellite without any development to how she learned to do such a thing just to include her in the team is as ridiculous as creating a stupid witch storyline just to include Lana in the search for the stones in season 4. Both suck.

These are my problems in Clark telling Chloe about Bart's secret and for TPTB to include her in the JLA team. It's not for any of the reasons you think I have. I like Chloe, and think they should keep her within the boundaries of her role---friend to Clark. It's when they start writing characters outside the boundaries of their roles that the hero & villian of the story tend to get portrayed in a degrading manner.

I don't think we'll ever agree on this, so I have nothing else to say after this.

First sorry if it looked like I was putting words in your mouth I was kind of trying to find out the big of a deal because Clark has outed hero's before when needed of Chloe's help(Aqua, Cyborg) and nobody complained until Justice.
Kufhu already answered a lof of things but I think the point 4 can be answered with the example on Mortal in wich Chloe did the same for Clark and again no one complained that she didn't have the training in that episode. Like I told you before Chloe is the heroin (even Ausiello called her that in case you needed an example) and the storylines revolve around Clark, Lex and Chloe. Lana is just there to be loved.


Originally posted by kiariclois
There's NO heroine in Smallville... If there is a heroine, I would have to say that it's Lana... NOT CHLOE... I really don't like Lana but it's the truth... she is the heroine in this current season...

Lana is the lead female... Not the the heroin there is diference.


Originally posted by celita
Must fiction isn´t about superman, The most powerful hero and the lead of the heroes (just Batman and Wonder woman can be near of him).

Like I said before there has been Superman incarnations where he is all Godlike and doens't need anyone and there had been more human like, flawed versions. SV is of the later so he needs the whole scheme to work out as good storytelling.

[XxKidMenuxX]

Clark trusts her, besides who was she going to tell anyway? Besides Clark didnt tell her for a long time, two years I think he said, so cut him some slack.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by khufu
I think you're quite wrong about not needing someone in that role. There was no time for them to have memorized the layout - they had to assemble immediately because now both Bart and Clark were in trouble. And because they had 3 agendas (save Clark/Bart - likely in different locations, plant the explosives, and download the info from the mainframe) there was no way in the world they could have been able to coordinate themselves while basically roaming around blindly through the halls.

Well, may I ask you then, how the hell did they memorize the layout other times without anyone in that position? I didn't hear Chloe giving Cyborg too many directions. He is able to download that info in his head without anyone guiding him. I can maybe understand if the others may need help. Another question is where did they get blueprints or a floor plan of that facility? I work in a job where I mark up floor plans, and when I need them and when they're supposed to exist, I can't find any. You mean to tell me Lex is stupid enough to upload a floorplan to the internet or that a satellite can magically show the entire layout with all the walls? If the JLA stole those from a previous mission, they could have clarified that, but they never explained it. And how did Chloe know that the room walls were lined with lead? Magic?


Originally posted by khufu
First of all, you just said that you would have had no problem with it if the JLA were ok with Chloe knowing, and now you do have a problem with it? And honestly, I think you missed the whole point of Justice. Like it or not, the importance of teamwork, and not trying to go it alone, was emphasized all throughout the episode. And yet you're going to say it makes Clark look bad to rely on someone?

No, if you read my whole post, I said I wouldn't mind if someone who was qualified knew, as long as the members would be notified before having their identities exposed. The importance was teamwork, yes--teamwork between the heroes. And Clark and the heroes do look bad when all their identities were compromised one way or the other and Chloe knows all their secrets. Their identities are supposed to be special and only known amongst the hero community. But in this show, they were all shown to be incompetent fools who couldn't even keep their ID secret from someone who has no qualifications to be on the team.


Originally posted by khufu
Really? She's not qualified to look at a screen and say "turn left, go right, there's a door up ahead"? She didn't do any special hacking, everything was already setup at Oliver's place - he already had the schematics loaded. All she did was guide them.

You said saying turn left, go right requires no qualifications. Well, let me put some 19-20 with no training to navigate through software that controls a satellite to even get to that point where they could see that screen, and we'll see how far they get. If that was real, why wouldn't the government hire anyone who can say these things on military recon missions? As easy as you think it is for someone to navigate the team through software like that, I can guarantee you it isn't. I know people that went through the Navy and special training in order to do that kind of stuff. That program must have several other modules as well, like that infrared scanner.


Originally posted by khufu
I've never seen an episode in which Lana or Lois got any kind of training in martial arts - does that mean they don't know any? Just because TPTB didn't waste screen time showing us how Chloe got to be good with computers doesn't meant she doesn't have that skill. The fact of the matter is she's been doing this - for us to see onscreen - since the first season, why is it all of a sudden unbelievable because we've never witnessed her training first hand???

And you know what---I think that was total BS on their part as well. I'm doing what a lot don't do and that's be objective, even with the characters I like. Nobody on this show is beyond criticism when they're written less than credible. Lana wasn't when she was a witch/vampire and now Chloe isn't. During the 1st season, she was not breaking into computers, controlling satellites or any of that stuff. She had contacts all over who helped her. Her job back then was coming up with the meteor freak theory, which she did a great job on and writing the articles based on her teamwork with Clark. Don't tell me that someone who goes to school, who writes for the paper, goes and physically helps Clark in finding the stories she writes, and interned at the DP has any time for learning all that stuff on computers. Most people go through college and then get a masters in programming or computer engineering and still can't do stuff like that without being trained by FBI and other programs. It's not only that we have not witnessed it, she has never in the early seasons, until AFTER learning Clark's secret, been shown to do these things or talked about being trained. This started in Mortal, and I'm certain that it's because she knew Clark's secret plus Clark had no powers, so they had to give her unfounded hacking powers. I'm still looking for the laptop model that does all that stuff. Before she knew Clark's secret, Clark always was a step ahead of her because he found out the what & why of the articles she wrote before Chloe. Ever since Mortal, TPTB started abusing the scope of the Chloe character as Clark's crutch. I was able to overlook it for quite a few episodes, but by Mercy, I was really bothered by it.


Originally posted by khufu
MOLLY GRIGGS???? Are you kidding me? Yeah, she was a wiz kid - and a psychopath! She tried to kill Chloe in Delete, and do you remember the last time a Superhero trusted her? It was the Angel of Vengeance in the Vengeance Chronicles, and look how honest and loyal she was to AoV - Molly was just using her in order to try and murder Lex (which even Nick had a change of heart about). You can't just bring her back and say "oh she's reformed now" and expect Clark to trust her, that's preposterous. And why even risk it, when Clark Kent has already vouched for the trustworthiness of someone else by recommending she be included. Bringing Molly would have been the single worst decision in the history of Smallville.

Fine, forget about Molly Griggs. Instead introduce a new character who Ollie has known for a long time and trusts and is presented as being a whiz at high technology satellites, programs, hacking, and the like rather than throwing the usual person whenever they want someone to get information. Just let it be someone qualified and not a reporter.

If you detach yourself from your bias of the Chloe character, you will understand how having her in this role just to be part of the story is just as ridiculous as having Lana as a witch. It's obvious they're going to try to create a spinoff. So why not use an actor or actress in that role who would be available for that show?

I'm saying, forget about hacking anymore in this show. It's a lazy way out instead of having Clark use his brains and powers to break into places, find things, and be the hero. This show is mainly about Clark & Lex, not Lana, Chloe, or any other character. Nobody should be shown more competent than Clark. If he needs Chloe's help, then they should do it in a realistic fashion where she uses her network of contacts to find witnesses or clues to help him out. Or even if she puts herself in danger as she did in Truth, it would be much more believable and add a lot more excitement to the show.

And as I said, once characters are written outside the boundaries of their roles, they start intruding in the roles of other characters, which is what TPTB are having Chloe do to Clark. I can not honestly say that Clark as shown in this show is capable or heroic enough to become Superman. He has sat back far too long and let others do the work for him. And I'm getting sick of it.

[khufu]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Well, may I ask you then, how the hell did they memorize the layout other times without anyone in that position?Like I said (and I even italicized it for you so you wouldn't miss it.....but you did anyway), they did not have time!!!! They had to leave immediately, so they couldn't study the blueprint and carefully plan out their attack. They weren't even sure which facility it was until Chloe showed up.

Another question is where did they get blueprints or a floor plan of that facility?Umm, how about all the data that Bart had previously stolen from other facilities? It's not unreasonable to think that 33.1 data on other facilities is among that information.

I work in a job where I mark up floor plans, and when I need them and when they're supposed to exist, I can't find any.Really???? You work with floor plans, do you? I find that interesting considering your next comment.....

And how did Chloe know that the room walls were lined with lead? Magic?Yeah man, it was MAGIC!!! :rotfl: How does she do it??!?!? Well, maybe it wasn't magic, maybe she has just somehow mastered the ancient art of READING!!! (Ridge facility blueprint (http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/khufu_2006/Misc/JusticeBlueprint.jpg)). And you say you work with floor plans all day? :lol:

No, if you read my whole post, I said I wouldn't mind if someone who was qualified knew, as long as the members would be notified before having their identities exposed. The importance was teamwork, yes--teamwork between the heroes.Look, it was either one of the JLA stay behind and be Watchtower, or Chloe. I don't know about you, but I would have been pissed if they would have wasted one of heroes on doing something that a non hero could have done. Chloe did NOT prevent the heroes from doing anything, nor did she make them look bad. What she DID do is allow them to go where they were needed the most and to use their respective skills to play the hero's role. Chloe's presence did not hinder, it enabled.

And Clark and the heroes do look bad when all their identities were compromised one way or the other and Chloe knows all their secrets. Their identities are supposed to be special and only known amongst the hero community.Chloe knew A.C. had powers when he first came to town. And she knew that Victor was a Cyborg when he first broke out. In fact, Chloe's research was instrumental in saving his life - whether he knows it or not he owes her debt of gratitude. And she figured GA out by herself. So it's really only Bart we're talking about here. Don't make it sounds as if the entire team was somehow violated.

But in this show, they were all shown to be incompetent fools who couldn't even keep their ID secret from someone who has no qualifications to be on the team.Like it or not (and clearly you don't), Chloe is in their league. She's a hero in her own right, and she proven this over the past 5+ years. Chloe is Smallville's heroine.

If you detach yourself from your bias of the Chloe character, you will understand how having her in this role just to be part of the story is just as ridiculous as having Lana as a witch.I think you need to chill with the accusations of character bias, because that can always be said to go both ways and gets us nowhere (not to mention a violation of the rules). I back everything I say up with logic and evidence from the show itself.

I'm saying, forget about hacking anymore in this show.Still don't know what you're complaining about here - Chloe just lead them through the building by looking at a schematic (and actually reading the words on it). All the fancy display and interface was Oliver's equipment, Chloe did no hacking. Her role was similar to what she did for Clark in Mortal.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by khufu
Like I said (and I even italicized it for you so you wouldn't miss it.....but you did anyway), they did not have time!!!! They had to leave immediately, so they couldn't study the blueprint and carefully plan out their attack. They weren't even sure which facility it was until Chloe showed up.

Yup until Chloe showed up and saved the day. Don't tell me the heroes couldn't have broken in various facilities of Lex's and found out--at least Clark could have because he is so fast that he can check every single facility in a matter of minutes. But they wrote him as a total BDA who needed to be saved, so of course they couldn't do this. If this is your answer, then what you are saying is that Superman will be unable to make split second saves when he is unsure of the whereabouts of those who need to be saved. This episode could & should have been written without these conditions so that as I said in my original post, the heroes could shine. That is what the Justice League traditionally is---heroes. Not reporters.


Originally posted by khufu
Umm, how about all the data that Bart had previously stolen from other facilities? It's not unreasonable to think that 33.1 data on other facilities is among that information.

I can agree here. I did say in my previous post that most likely they got that info from previous raids. So I'll overlook this one.


Originally posted by khufu
Really???? You work with floor plans, do you? I find that interesting considering your next comment.....

Yes I do. And you may find what I have to say enlightening when I respond below.


Originally posted by khufu
Yeah man, it was MAGIC!!! :rotfl: How does she do it??!?!? Well, maybe it wasn't magic, maybe she has just somehow mastered the ancient art of READING!!! (Ridge facility blueprint (http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l208/khufu_2006/Misc/JusticeBlueprint.jpg)). And you say you work with floor plans all day? :lol:

Well, first of all, I admit I should have gone back to watch the episode again, something I didn't get a chance to do. And now, a fact about floor plans is that there are several types--general, plumbing, piping, mechanical, electrical, and architectural. There is also one per floor and they only showed one, so does this mean that the huge facility only had one floor? If not, then Chloe would have to understand the software and the file locations from where to pull up the other floor plans for the other levels. Anyway, getting back to my main point on floor plans--the type that was shown was a general floor plan. And general floor plans, never show materials of construction for walls or anything else. That would be in an architectural floor plan, which would have 100's of other details regarding the specs and composition of the walls, floors, ceilings, floor drains, etc. So having an arrow pointing at the wall saying "Lead" on a general floor plan was ridiculous. I have never seen a general floor plan like that. Anyone in an engineering and design firm would be laughed out of a job by presenting such a thing. I highly doubt any team member raided the Ridge facility before and took a scraping off the wall to reveal it was lead and add that annotation to the floor plan themselves (mainly because they would have no reason to suspect the use of lead).


Originally posted by khufu
Look, it was either one of the JLA stay behind and be Watchtower, or Chloe. I don't know about you, but I would have been pissed if they would have wasted one of heroes on doing something that a non hero could have done. Chloe did NOT prevent the heroes from doing anything, nor did she make them look bad. What she DID do is allow them to go where they were needed the most and to use their respective skills to play the hero's role. Chloe's presence did not hinder, it enabled.
Chloe knew A.C. had powers when he first came to town. And she knew that Victor was a Cyborg when he first broke out. In fact, Chloe's research was instrumental in saving his life - whether he knows it or not he owes her debt of gratitude. And she figured GA out by herself. So it's really only Bart we're talking about here. Don't make it sounds as if the entire team was somehow violated.

Yes, she knew AC had powers thanks to Clark telling her that AC can swim faster than him. But I have no problem with that since Clark didn't know AC and AC wasn't a hero then. Same with Victor. I understand that Chloe's research did help Victor, and again, I have no problem with it. I don't agree with how they inadvertently outed GA's secret to her when Clark tried throughout the season to prevent that from happening. Heck, he even deleted all those files from Chloe's PC at work. I thought that was a bad move by TPTB in Hydro (an episode that showed how important secrets are to the SV characters). I have no problem that Chloe knew about most of the team before they became a team, but I think it's a mistake that they let her know after forming the team, because by that point they have codenames (hero identities) that in the comic book world are sacred, and only those very close to them should know. Since I am a comic collector (of back issues), I consider this very important. I hated how Peter Parker's ID was revealed so many times in Spider-Man. Chloe is close to Clark, so the only person whose secret ID AND hero codename she should know is Clark's. By this I mean Clark should be the only hero that Chloe should be able to identify even when in disguise (though he hasn't gotten one yet). My main problem as I have said time & again is that based on what has been presented in Smallville and using common logic as a viewer, Chloe as a reporter would not know how to fill in the Watchtower role and would not understand how to use the technology to do that job. I don't care if she has done this type of stuff before. It wasn't believable then, and it's not believable now. I was hoping they'd drop it. I was able to accept a certain amount of it, but then it got me angry at how they could write such rubbish (this happened as I watched Mercy). Can you honestly tell me that a person of her experience would know how to do what she did in Mercy? What was the result of that episode? Chloe doing all the work just to have Clark rush in and stop the elevator from crashing at the end. That is not the type of Superman I want.


Originally posted by khufu
Like it or not (and clearly you don't), Chloe is in their league. She's a hero in her own right, and she proven this over the past 5+ years. Chloe is Smallville's heroine.

This is the problem. She is not a hero. She is a sidekick. Chloe was never meant to be the hero. There is 1 main hero in Smallville, and that is Clark. There are heroes that pass by like the ones in the JLA & MM. But Chloe is not a hero. She is a friend to the hero. This is exactly what I meant when I said "It's when they start writing characters outside the boundaries of their roles that the hero & villian of the story tend to get portrayed in a degrading manner". Chloe has taken on so many of Clark's responsibilities that many viewers start seeing her as a hero. And as a direct result of this, Clark becomes a BDA. As I said, I also like Chloe, but I absolutely realize that she is not a hero. She has helped the hero on several occasions, but she is not the hero. If she is a hero, then so are many other characters who have put their lives on the line for Clark. That would make Jonathan Kent the biggest hero since his life was taken to bring back Clark. It would also make Lana a huge hero since she risked everything and tried to stop Zod (Zod) and Lex a hero for saving Clark from certain death in the kryptonite bath (Memoria). Martha would also be a hero in that she saved Lois (Zod). And Pete would be a hero for almost dying at the hands of Dr. Hamilton (Duplicity) & FBI agent Loder (Forsaken) for refusing to tell Clark's secret. In real life, you could consider anyone who has done this a hero. But in terms of a TV show, more specifically this one, which has roles, there is 1 hero and 1 villian. The rest are parents to the hero & villian, and friends (who are the support for those characters).


Originally posted by khufu
I think you need to chill with the accusations of character bias, because that can always be said to go both ways and gets us nowhere (not to mention a violation of the rules). I back everything I say up with logic and evidence from the show itself.

I am not biased for anyone here. As I said I am being objective. I let Lana have it when I think she's being terribly written, and now I'm doing the same for Chloe (who still is my favorite female friend to Clark). I'm sorry about the accusations, but I just don't know how else to put it. It seems to me that there are Chloe fans on this forum who love the Chloe character so much that they are blinded by even the bad apects of her character that negatively impact on the main character of the show--Clark. He relies way too much on Chloe's brain. And that's why he is a BDA. It's a fact that is proven with many examples. Compare him to how he was in Shattered. In that episode, he clearly took the lead in getting to the bottom of everything and helping Lex (even went against his parents' wishes by doing that) while doing his best to protect his other friends. That is the Clark I want to see. In season 4, that smart Clark started disappearing since they started putting him mostly in scenes with Lois where he was not able to do heroic things (these episodes were fillers). He still did show himself to be smart in the few episodes that he didn't deal with her (like Scare). Even after Chloe found out his secret in Pariah, he didn't know she knew about it, so for the rest of the season, he stayed a step ahead of her because he had to keep the details regarding his secret & how he saved the day to himself. Once he found out that Chloe knew, things changed. They even had Chloe tell Clark to go to Smallville in Arrival, as if he was stupid and needed to be told (that was the only thing I didn't like about that scene). That is exactly where the real BDA Clark started. Before that, you couldn't really call him a BDA since he had no trust in Jor-El (thanks to what Jor-El put his family through).

I hope I made my point clear here. They have allowed Clark to get lazy after they made him realize that Chloe knew his secret, and it has only gotten worse. It started improving in season 6 until Justice. They should go back to limiting her to helping him with the zoners. I liked how Ollie gave her the satellite images and she and Clark brainstormed over it. That was much different than running the complicated tech operations of the JLA.


Originally posted by khufu
Still don't know what you're complaining about here - Chloe just lead them through the building by looking at a schematic (and actually reading the words on it). All the fancy display and interface was Oliver's equipment, Chloe did no hacking. Her role was similar to what she did for Clark in Mortal.

I just would like to see a trained specialist in the software and satellite functions in that role. It may appear that's all she's doing, but I am sure it's a lot more complicated than that. I don't know how else to explain it. My brother, who does not watch the show (he used to watch it on an irregular basis) saw her doing that in Mortal and got so pissed that he shut off the TV. He had the same reaction to when Lana was shown being an expert in martial arts after only less than an episode of training from Lex. I'm illustrating that if someone like him who is not vested in the show can make an observation and if I'm agreeing, then it's not just me.

Right now, I think Chloe's greatest contribution to the show should be getting Clark interested in journalism by having a great research and investigate partnership with him. By doing that, she would be remembered as the character who got helped set up Superman's (Clark's) side gig/career, a very noble contribution. That would also bring her back to her original purpose on the show.

So those are my points. If I can't convince you, then we will have to agree to disagree. I'm sure you don't want to waste your time arguing about this anymore. I know I don't.

Anyway, thanks for the debate.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Yes, she knew AC had powers thanks to Clark telling her that AC can swim faster than him. But I have no problem with that since Clark didn't know AC and AC wasn't a hero then. Same with Victor. I understand that Chloe's research did help Victor, and again, I have no problem with it. I don't agree with how they inadvertently outed GA's secret to her when Clark tried throughout the season to prevent that from happening. Heck, he even deleted all those files from Chloe's PC at work. I thought that was a bad move by TPTB in Hydro (an episode that showed how important secrets are to the SV characters). I have no problem that Chloe knew about most of the team before they became a team, but I think it's a mistake that they let her know after forming the team, because by that point they have codenames (hero identities) that in the comic book world are sacred, and only those very close to them should know. Since I am a comic collector (of back issues), I consider this very important. I hated how Peter Parker's ID was revealed so many times in Spider-Man. Chloe is close to Clark, so the only person whose secret ID AND hero codename she should know is Clark's. By this I mean Clark should be the only hero that Chloe should be able to identify even when in disguise (though he hasn't gotten one yet). My main problem as I have said time & again is that based on what has been presented in Smallville and using common logic as a viewer, Chloe as a reporter would not know how to fill in the Watchtower role and would not understand how to use the technology to do that job. I don't care if she has done this type of stuff before. It wasn't believable then, and it's not believable now. I was hoping they'd drop it. I was able to accept a certain amount of it, but then it got me angry at how they could write such rubbish (this happened as I watched Mercy). Can you honestly tell me that a person of her experience would know how to do what she did in Mercy? What was the result of that episode? Chloe doing all the work just to have Clark rush in and stop the elevator from crashing at the end. That is not the type of Superman I want.



This is the problem. She is not a hero. She is a sidekick. Chloe was never meant to be the hero. There is 1 main hero in Smallville, and that is Clark. There are heroes that pass by like the ones in the JLA & MM. But Chloe is not a hero. She is a friend to the hero. This is exactly what I meant when I said "It's when they start writing characters outside the boundaries of their roles that the hero & villian of the story tend to get portrayed in a degrading manner". Chloe has taken on so many of Clark's responsibilities that many viewers start seeing her as a hero. And as a direct result of this, Clark becomes a BDA. As I said, I also like Chloe, but I absolutely realize that she is not a hero. She has helped the hero on several occasions, but she is not the hero. If she is a hero, then so are many other characters who have put their lives on the line for Clark. That would make Jonathan Kent the biggest hero since his life was taken to bring back Clark. It would also make Lana a huge hero since she risked everything and tried to stop Zod (Zod) and Lex a hero for saving Clark from certain death in the kryptonite bath (Memoria). Martha would also be a hero in that she saved Lois (Zod). And Pete would be a hero for almost dying at the hands of Dr. Hamilton (Duplicity) & FBI agent Loder (Forsaken) for refusing to tell Clark's secret. In real life, you could consider anyone who has done this a hero. But in terms of a TV show, more specifically this one, which has roles, there is 1 hero and 1 villian. The rest are parents to the hero & villian, and friends (who are the support for those characters).

I think I finally detected what bothers you about this is the fact that Superman needed help for a character that you don't consider should step outside of the role you see her that is of friend or sidekick and not the heroin.
Well I can't tell you to see Chloe as the heroin of the show that is going to do her share of savings as well as Clark has being doing but I will like to give you an example that might help you see that even if Chloe was just a friend of the hero (she is his female counterpart according to the way she is written) there is not problem with them steping to save the day.
On Xena Gabrielle helped save Xena's lives plenty of times and there was an ocassion that Xena couldn't save her daughter Eve and asked for help to do it to Elly.
On Buffy Willow and Xander got their share of saving the world even when Buffy was unable to do it or figured out themselves
In Superman's return KBlois saved him from drawning and in the comics Lex, Lois and even Jimmy have had their time of saving the man of steel and this is a full grown Superman so like you can see Supes can need and ask for help even from the lesser of his friends.

There are more examples but I think I will live this ones for now.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by lastdaughterofkrypton
I think I finally detected what bothers you about this is the fact that Superman needed help for a character that you don't consider should step outside of the role you see her that is of friend or sidekick and not the heroin.

If by this, you mean that my problem stems from the instances they show Chloe helping to save the day based on skills outside the scope of the talents originally given to her (or shown to be developed), then you're right. I have no problem with her saving the day as long as the following is the case:

1. It is not so often that she appears more heroic than Clark

2. It is within the realm of her character's skills (investigative reporting--which is not hi-tech hacking)

Let me give you examples of Chloe saving the day realistically (using her natural talents) that I am totally for:

a. In Bound, when she used her smarts to help Clark find the earring, which led to Clark being able to save Lex.

b. In Blank, helping Clark to get re-acquainted with his powers. I *loved* her in this episode. She was a true friend and even told the truth about Lana, which she didn't have to do.

c. Going head to head against Lionel throughout season 3. She needed a lot of help from Clark, but this was truly amazing what a formidable adversary she was for Lionel. Recording his voice on her voicemail in Truth was great. Following up with Lex on that cop who was helping him (when they found him dead on a table) was also cool.

d. Helping Clark protect Lana in Crisis. She even got physically injured.

e. Investigating and finding out about the Nicodemus diary in Nicodemus & Hamilton's involvement.

f. How she found Clark lying with the stone in Commencement and how she used her past knowledge of how kryptonite hurts him (from Spirit) to take it away from him so he could complete his mission. She also covered for him against Lex when he arrived and found the door of his vault open.

So as you can see, there were many heroic actions of Chloe's that I support. But it is important to remember that there is only 1 hero role in this show. Otherwise everyone would be a hero, since everyone at one time or another has done something heroic or saved someone:

Jonathan: Risked going to the DCA to get the ship key (Fever) and lost his life so Jor-El could bring back Clark

Martha: Saved Lois in Zod, Held her family together and did not give up throughout the summer between Covenant & Crusade

Lana: Risked her life to try to stop Zod (in Zod)

Chloe: See above

Lex: Saved Clark from the kryptonite bath (Memoria); saved the Kent farm (Phoenix)

Lionel: Covered for Clark (Justice); Destroyed a Milton Fine copy (Oracle); helped save Lex from being frames (Bound)

Pete: Refused to give Clark's secret up when Dr. Hamilton (in Duplicity) and Agent Loder (in Forsaken) were ready to kill him; also risked his safety in stopping Clark (Red)

The one true hero is Clark. And the thing that seperates him from anyone else is that he has gone around and helped anyone he's found who was in trouble and believed in them. Examples of those he helped:

-Kyle Tippet
-Ryan
-Perry (he dove without powers into the gorge--this truly defined why he is a hero to me)
-Javier
-Kevin Grady
-Jordan Cross
-Lex (too many times to count; even after the Zod incident & after Lex is the reason why Lana died in the Reckoning reality)
-Chloe (too many times to count)
-Lana (too many times to count)

The list goes on & on. He has put aside his happiness to do a greater good, and that is why he is the true hero. He dove into a gorge knowing he would probably die. Nobody else did that.

[redraven]

It bothered me when Clark told Chloe about everyone else's secret...I mean, does she have to know EVERYTHING? It's not like she would tell anyone, but still...I just didn't want her to know. :\

[Chloe'sBestFriend]

HEY! Is everyone sure that Chloe knew of AC's secret identity. She knew AC from "Aqua" but as far as I remember I thought she just knew he was a college student into marine biology and dating Lois. She didn't know he had super-powers.???

[nickyjean_1]

The thing to remember is that Chloe was able to narrow down the search for Bart bc she knew what to look for .. something that would measure speed/volicity on a moulecur level or whatever.. and that's the only reason it was mentioned.. She was the one that's been doing most of the research of 33.1 she had been investigating those things specifically.. so the fact that she's involved or need doesn't see bizarre to me at all.. She already had the paper work on her desk.. so in a way it's contrived in a way it's been leading up to it.. the fact that Clark told her is just one step away from her digging up the info and finding out herself.. Like she did with AC, victor and GA..


***edit***

Wow.. I'm still getting through all these posts.. and I always edit accordingly.. but I couldn't help but notice that no one mentioned.. that chloe alluded to clark being in danger bc of the meteor rock refining.. now isn't admiting that mr invinsible's weakness exsists just as bad as telling the secret about bart.. even though they both are bc they are saving lives.. Now don't get me wrong.. I'm all for telling secrets if lives are in danger.. I'm a mother and that's what it comes down to me.. sorry.. and I also think who you tell those secrets too is also very important .. and I think trusting Chloe or Chloe trusting the JL it a good thing..

**edit**More edits..
ok I'm on page 4 now and I figured out that this whole eppy and Hydro before was about secrets.. keeping them and having them and telling them... In hydro chloe kept all the secrets.. and linda lake heard them anyway.. Lex couldn't wait to tell clark he was expecting .. and Lana was pissed that she wasn't in the club.. she went to chloe and threw some little piss dance prior to going to clark and begging for the truth.. and then he told her flat out that she knew he was preg .. but didn't light her up for not telling him the secrets about her..

Then you have Ollie keeping things from Lois.. which IMO I disagreed w/ personally but only because A) she's always been the save the world type person.. and B)her father is military.. if anyone know what it's like to have to follow the trouble around the world it would be her don't ya think.. but he did and that's his choice..
Now the difference between chloe and Clark..

Clark ratted out Lois's suspcions right away to Ollie figuring he had the right to know what was going on.. if chloe was faced with know ollie was GA and Lois asking her for help I honestly believe Chloe would have pleaded the fifth and begged her to just confront ollie with her suspcions outright.. and then if Ollie chose to lie that would be his bad... No one said Clark had to get involved.. and Chloe put two and two together.. just as lois did.. so how is it good for Chloe to know and Lois to be lied too and broken hearted.. (that is a TIIC stupid plot device)..

Then in Justice.. we had bart who was willing to walk away from clark his friend the person he attributes to changing his ways rather then explain the good things he's doing with his team.. So

IMO Many people can keep secrets but Clark isn't one of them.. maybe it's because he's kept secrets for so long that first there was pete who he could talk to .. Had to snip that in the bud..

And then there is Alicia.. bye bye pretty girl...

Now there's Chloe.. IMO.. he already bears the wait of the world on his shoulders weather deserved or not.. but he just wants to talk to someone about it.. and he chose chloe.. or maybe chloe chose him.. because she found out instead of him telling her.. but whatever the reason.. some people can't just lock up their secrets if they have an outlet and I think clark is one of those people..

[nickyjean_1]

Now for my next point.. Chloe had every reason to be the "WatchTower" in this eppy.. She wasn't just a plot device imo for this eppy..

First scene was Chloe talking to a dr w/ connections to level 33.1 she had a list of questions and research on her desk in reguards to 33.1 so it's not unfathomable that she would know a bit more..Maybe also where those patients were being transferred too... Also her interest was repeaked during static where clark left her on her own to save Lana/Lex.. and with Jimmy's help they saved the day..

Next Flash showed up.. this is the same guy that is also working the 33.1 angle based on GA intel.. he just happened to show up in time to save chloe.. or was he following the dr.. who had a surprising link to chloe.. When he gave that info about her byline and just wanting to stop by it was BEFORE the JL came out.. so maybe he was covering.. So this is a possible link from JL to Chloe and 33.1

Next when clark became worried about Bart he went to Chloe to try and track his phone, they discover together that theres a link between Ollie and Bart.. so Clark goes to Oliver and finds out that bart is missing and they are cking all the holdings that could be a possible 33.1 target.. Clark knowing Chloe has been researching 33.1 believes she might be able to narrow the search so he goes to her.. w/o telling them he's going to Chloe (which imo was the odd part because that would have given everyone involved with the JL the chance to approve her being included)

Clark then goes to chloe and she pulls out info that was sitting on her desk about a facility in Metropolis that have been recieving the things that might be involved with holding someone that's super fast..TO ME this is not out of the relm of possiblities bc Chloe is researching facilities on metroplis that was recieving patiets from belle reve.. (probably an assessing facility).. so it made perfect sence to me.. that she was involved..

[freefall]

Originally posted by nickyjean_1
The thing to remember is that Chloe was able to narrow down the search for Bart bc she knew what to look for .. something that would measure speed/volicity on a moulecur level or whatever..


This part I agree with, Chloe definitely had the importance of helping the JL to narrow down the search for Bart. But the point still stands: Clark could still have just asked for the information without telling her anything about Bart. He could even tell her where he's going (the Ridge facility) - "I have to go and get my friend there, please get this info to Oliver ASAP" without spilling any of the beans.



Wow.. I'm still getting through all these posts.. and I always edit accordingly.. but I couldn't help but notice that no one mentioned.. that chloe alluded to clark being in danger bc of the meteor rock refining.. now isn't admiting that mr invinsible's weakness exsists just as bad as telling the secret about bart.. even though they both are bc they are saving lives..


Like the previous posters had mentioned, the blueprint was just a plot device to have Chloe to be the one to make the connection between the lead shielding and the meteor rocks. It doesn't make sense for the architects to single out that room and make a notation of the walls' construction material. How do they themselves connect the purpose of the lead shielding to the meteor rocks anyway?

I personally think it would be better if the JL themselves go and search for Clark and Bart on their own.



Now don't get me wrong.. I'm all for telling secrets if lives are in danger.. I'm a mother and that's what it comes down to me.. sorry.. and I also think who you tell those secrets too is also very important .. and I think trusting Chloe or Chloe trusting the JL it a good thing..


We have different opinions on this, but it's fine. I'd just like to bring up Velocity here, as a comparison to Justice. In that episode, Pete wasn't merely "in trouble", someone had already threatened to kill him and his parents, and Clark had seen him getting beaten up and bloodied all over, but still he kept Pete's secret all the way. Even when he went to Lex and Chloe for help, never once he gave away the secret nor did he give away even a single detail.

Clark actually had very good reason to out the secret if he wanted to use 'helping a friend' as a justification but still he didn't. It's very contradictory to what he did in Justice, and it gives me the impression that Clark from Velocity is much more stronger and honourable than in Justice, in terms of keeping someone else's secret. In Justice, he didn't even make any effort to do so, that's what makes it so very disappointing.

Just my two cents.

[nickyjean_1]

When I referred to the blue prints I just ment that Chloe gave the implication to me that Meterrocks could kill clark.. giving away a specific weakess of meteor rock may not have been something he wished exposed to anyone because even those he trust.. Pete and Bart have used it against him in the past..

[thedarknight]

What else could she say? I mean aside from kryptonite what can kill Clark. I mean if she said Clark's in trouble and nothing else, Ollie would have seen Clark lying near the refined kryptonite and put two and two together. She at least had to warn GA about whats in that room.

[UpandAtom]

I wouldn't give Ollie that much credit. He couldn't have figured out what wrong. He would've said, "Clark, what wrong?" to which Clark would've replied that he's allergic to the meteor rocks. Of course, Chloe didn't know whether Clark would still be conscious at the time so she had no choice but to reveal the secret.

However, Clark had a choice when telling Chloe about Bart. he could've just said that Bart was in trouble and he needed her help to find her. Where would her knowing about Clark's powers come in useful?

[Iowanmom]

Originally posted by ChlarkMe
I thought it was very ironic that Clark told Chloe everything just like that. He outed Bart, AC and Cyborg. Shouldn't he have felt a little bit guilty about it.
I agree... I too was surprised that Clark was so quick to tell everyone's secret. The fact that Chloe was his friend didn't have anything to do with it, aside from trusting her, but with all this 'trust' talk and secrets talk going on (mainly about Lana) I was very surprised and a bit disappointed that Clark gave Bart up and the others too...

Yeah, yeah, I know... it was in the script, but it didn't feel right in my book. I don't know... that's my two cents worth... :\

[hedi sweet thighs]

Yeah he just like that told everyones secrets than he couldn't tell lana,his secret last week boy tht is whack,I think he finally realize that holding secrets has its price.Chole has jimmy in her life ,Martha has lionel,by the way that was cool how he played Lex off when questioned Clarks where abouts when 33.1 was destroyed.I still think there is a motive why Lionel is protecting Clark I still think Jorel in still in there.He'll do anything to get closer to his son including becoming involved with Clarks earth mother. :confused:

[meteor]

i don't know if Jor-El is still in there..but i think he is still Lionel. i mean this is the same guy who tried to have Chloe and his own son killed, and it was strongly implied that he committed murder (griff) as recently as last year.

there's no doubt he has ulterior motives..the only thing that remains to be seen is if his feelings for Martha are legitimate on top of it or just part of the con.