Chloe was actually MM at the end in the loft!!

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

For those who arent aware, one of Martian Manhunter's abilities is that he's a shape-shifter who can take on any form.

Chloe's conversation with Clark in the loft is really weird for her talking about how "Clark carries the world on his shoulders" and how there are "others out there who can help him do it." Think about it. Chloe doesnt know that, she doesnt know about any of the other heros that have been on the show outside of GA, and she doesnt even really know that he's a good guy yet.

She looks at Clark a bit oddly and then leaves the loft, and right where she was standing is the Oreo cookie, hence the reason Clark examines it.

Rewatch the scene, it makes sense.

[moira]

Yeah, thats a good point!!

[Krypto/DQ/]

Good point, but I need to rewatch the scene, if you are right, that would be awesome.

[Nospam]

I thought MM was also capable of invisibility? That is another possibility. An engaging hypothesis though!:cool:

[xyummyclarkx]

Wow.... I had never thought about that. Excellent observation!! :D

[boywithbluehanger]

haha I hope you're right! That would be cool if thats what they intended. I was just thinking that the cookie meant that the MM had been following Clark...funny how I let the MM/Chloe disguise slip by. Nice catch!

[BeldarofRemulak]

never knew that...would be interesting for it to be true, but how would he know who she is and that she knew about clarks ability...In the beginning she states it her first time seeing him since Seattle.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by Nospam
I thought MM was also capable of invisibility? That is another possibility. An engaging hypothesis though!:cool:


:D Maybe MM turned into Chloe then talked to Clark then went to check out his "Chloevage" :lol:

[Krypto/DQ/]

Originally posted by BeldarofRemulak
never knew that...would be interesting for it to be true, but how would he know who she is and that she knew about clarks ability...In the beginning she states it her first time seeing him since Seattle.


If I remeber good MM can actually read the mind of anyone and can know all about anybody he wants to know. A telekinesis(doN't know how to spell it) power.

[HowardFilms]

OMG, that would be so weird...I don't think that's really it, but you may be on to something...

[boywithbluehanger]

Originally posted by BeldarofRemulak
never knew that...would be interesting for it to be true, but how would he know who she is and that she knew about clarks ability...In the beginning she states it her first time seeing him since Seattle.

He meant just the ending scene

[GhostRaider]

I am glad someone else was/is thinking this to. I totally agree with all you said being that I am a big fan of this character and am well aware of all the MM powers. I to think he shapeshifted into Chloe to visit Clark.

[muffinpeddler]

yeah, MM is a powerful telepath. It's entirely possible! But I don't think TPTB are that sneaky.

[God-Man]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
For those who arent aware, one of Martian Manhunter's abilities is that he's a shape-shifter who can take on any form.

Chloe's conversation with Clark in the loft is really weird for her talking about how "Clark carries the world on his shoulders" and how there are "others out there who can help him do it." Think about it. Chloe doesnt know that, she doesnt know about any of the other heros that have been on the show outside of GA, and she doesnt even really know that he's a good guy yet.

She looks at Clark a bit oddly and then leaves the loft, and right where she was standing is the Oreo cookie, hence the reason Clark examines it.

Rewatch the scene, it makes sense.

Heyyyyyy, you might be on to something! It does make sense.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by BeldarofRemulak
but how would he know who she is and that she knew about clarks ability...In the beginning she states it her first time seeing him since Seattle.

Not sure. Though in a lot of versions of the story like the one in the animated JL cartoons, MM watched Clark at times from afar as he was growing up in Smallville since he knew of the destruction of Krypton.

[GhostRaider]

Originally posted by Krypto/DQ/
If I remeber good MM can actually read the mind of anyone and can know all about anybody he wants to know. A telekinesis(doN't know how to spell it) power.

You are right on this. It is one of his powers.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
For those who arent aware, one of Martian Manhunter's abilities is that he's a shape-shifter who can take on any form.

Chloe's conversation with Clark in the loft is really weird for her talking about how "Clark carries the world on his shoulders" and how there are "others out there who can help him do it." Think about it. Chloe doesnt know that, she doesnt know about any of the other heros that have been on the show outside of GA, and she doesnt even really know that he's a good guy yet.

She looks at Clark a bit oddly and then leaves the loft, and right where she was standing is the Oreo cookie, hence the reason Clark examines it.

Rewatch the scene, it makes sense.

if you are right, that is the best catch ever on this board.

[Deana]

I'd never thought of that. Maybe he's been silently watching Clark and the other "heroes." He'd know Chloe if he's been monitering Clark.

[HowardFilms]

EDIT: The question then becomes...is it weird I was thinking MM was really hot in that scene?

[Krypto/DQ/]

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
if you are right, that is the best catch ever on this board.

Thats freaking true. Nice catch btw ;)

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by HowardFilms
EDIT: The question then becomes...is it weird I was thinking MM was really hot in that scene?


what's even weirder is to think what if MM has been Chloe the whole time??

That would be a real "Crying Game" moment for Clark... and especially Jimmy :D

[Krypto/DQ/]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
what's even weirder is to thinkwhat if MM has been Chloe the whole time??

That would be a real "Crying Game" moment for Clark... and especially Jimmy :D

That would be to bad for Jimmy :lol: But Where could Chloe be? I think only at the end it might be the MM instead of Chloe.

[christian_kryptonian]

It makes perfect sense. He read Chole's thoughts and shapeshifted to look like her. That would make sense with the half eaten Oreos. lol

[derickla]

^^ that is too funny. "Crying Game" Moment. LOL!!!!!

But back to the thread, the idea of Chloe being MM in the loft is a really great catch. I had to go back and rewatch the end just so I could put all together.

[boywithbluehanger]

Whats stranger is that I said to myself when I first watched that part "chloe seems to be out of character a little bit..."

I just love how dumb I feel right now!! Could this have been part of the 'Fanboy orgasm' we all heard so much about?!

[jazzylg]

It's funny I was thinking what if MM was chloe(loft scene), as I knew of this ability, but someone else was thinking this also I see.

[jimmyolsenblues]

only you guys could tie smallville and crying game.
you are hillarious.

[HowardFilms]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
what's even weirder is to think what if MM has been Chloe the whole time??

That would be a real "Crying Game" moment for Clark... and especially Jimmy :D

:eek:

[ClarksGal]

If that is true, then I am much more impressed with this episode than I was before.

[khufu]

I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).

[MuchaLana]

If you are right that is dumb and so confusing. I dislike this toying around...so now if Lana is eating some Oreos will that be MM or true Lana Lang...hmmm :eek:

[spideyfan]

Very very possible...I guess even superheroes cant resist an OREO!

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by khufu
I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).

well for one he's a telepath who can read minds, and in that scene he didnt really say anything that was specific to Chloe's knowledge, howver he did say something about others being able to help Clark which Chloe doesnt know...

She also said she tried calling Clark when he was in Seattle, which Chloe never did, unless you assume it was off camera.

Plus after picking up the cookie, I believe Clark looks back to see where she went.

[chlarklove]

Originally posted by khufu
I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).

ITA. It's an interesting theory, but the thing is, MM would have to have been watching Chloe as well to know what Chloe was wearing and how she had her hair styled in order for him to be her in that scene. Because she was wearing the same outfit/hair as she had in the previous scene with Lana and Jimmy.

[GhostRaider]

Originally posted by khufu
I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).

What exactly would he have not know to say. The message that was basically delivered was that even a hero needs to be saved sometimes. Which is classic MM because he has always preached teamwork. Becuase in the future as Clark will become the heart and sole of the JL Jonn (MM) is the glue (atleast in my opinion) that holds it together by preaching that same message time and time again.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

well regardless, it's still fun to discuss.

Craig, can we take this one to Gough and Millar for a final ruling in the next interview? :)

[jazzylg]

MM could have been someone in the daily planet scoping clark's friends as far as we know.He's pretty freaking powerful, and with the abilty to turn invisible, a budget saving blessing.

[Nospam]

Originally posted by khufu
I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).

Agree. The scene was classic Chloe. And we're also forgetting that MM has the power of invisibility.

I can just see the thread now: Is Martian Manhunter the real Chloe?

[Krypto/DQ/]

Originally posted by chlarklove
ITA. It's an interesting theory, but the thing is, MM would have to have been watching Chloe as well to know what Chloe was wearing and how she had her hair styled in order for him to be her in that scene. Because she was wearing the same outfit/hair as she had in the previous scene with Lana and Jimmy.


The MM could have seen her right before he went tot he barn. And i think he can take control of anybody whit his minds. So he could have take control of Chloe when she went to the barn.

[boywithbluehanger]

It should be noted that since Chloe will probably not be questioned about meeting with Clark in the loft, we are to only assume that the MM was only there watching Clark a some point.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

I dont know, upon repeat viewings Chloe's little speech about "even hero's need to be saved" really does it for me, seeing as how MM basically just saved Clark's butt and Clark seemed embarassed to talk about it.

[GhostRaider]

Well if they have followed some of the similar versions of the Superman story the MM has been watching over Clark since he was a child and him following Clark around which would naturally lead him to Chloe and that fact that all he would need to do is probe her mind would give him all the info he would ever need to know about her at any given time.

[khufu]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
well for one he's a telepath who can read minds, and in that scene he didnt really say anything that was specific to Chloe's knowledge, howver he did say something about others being able to help Clark which Chloe doesnt know...I'm not talking about Chloe saying something that only she would know, I'm just talking about her whole personality and approach, that was classic Chloe. So unless MM first scoped out Chloe then came back to pose as her I just don't see it. Plus, she knows that GA is out there trying to be a hero, and that Raya faught for Clark and gave her life to restore the fortress, and now Clark tells her that someone else is out there taking out Zoners - I think that's more than enough to justify Chloe's statement.

She also said she tried calling Clark when he was in Seattle, which Chloe never did, unless you assume it was off camera.

Plus after picking up the cookie, I believe Clark looks back to see where she went. Dude we don't see each and every minute of every day that they go through. She probably tried to call him in offscreensville (which makes sense given that Chloe expressed a interest in getting Clark's help to Jimmy.

[Skywalker]

I was thinking the same thing, but not that he shapeshifted into Chloe and pretended to be her. It sounded like he possessed her midway into the convo when she started talking about accepting help from other heroes. I could have sworn I heard some sort of sound effect. I have to watch it over again...

[Bookwrm17]

Wow...I totally didn't even think of that. I thought Chloe was a little off, but I completely forgot about the whole shape-shifting thing. Great catch.

[lillie_poo_pod]

You know that makes A LOT of sense because and when I think about it I don't think Chloe would ever say anything like " Fight the good fight" I thought that was out of character . Good observation

[TheEradicator6]

I suppose it's possible, but it depends on what Chloe... MM said to Clark. If she said stuff only Chloe knows then that's probably not really realistic.

[Nospam]

Originally posted by khufu
I'm not talking about Chloe saying something that only she would know, I'm just talking about her whole personality and approach, that was classic Chloe. So unless MM first scoped out Chloe then came back to pose as her I just don't see it. Plus, she knows that GA is out there trying to be a hero, and that Raya faught for Clark and gave her life to restore the fortress, and now Clark tells her that someone else is out there taking out Zoners - I think that's more than enough to justify Chloe's statement.

In addition, Chloe is very much aware of others with gifts such as Aquabro and Victor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I think it fails the parsimony test.

[khufu]

But Chloe is always giving Clark the hero speech, I just don't see why this one is being seen by some as out of character?

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by khufu
I think the oreo was just to show that MM has been watching Clark. I don't see how he would have known exactly what to say to Clark as Chloe (and that was very classic Chloe).
I agree but if they follow this up wit chlark talkin and chloe says she doesn't remember the convo in a later episode I'm impress.Cause I can't see tptb pullin this off :lol: ,so if they did it makes the episode much more interestin.Cause then ppl will go back and watch over and over,but I doubt it tho.I think he was jus near by watchin them

[khufu]

Originally posted by Nospam
In addition, Chloe is very much aware of others with gifts such as Aquabro and Victor.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but I think it fails the parsimony test. Exactly. And considering in the comics/other media MM has been known to check up on Clark and follow his activities, couldn't that have been the case? More importantly, though, I would really hate for their first meeting to be MM pretending to be someone else. It should be MM revealing himself to Clark as another alien/good guy.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by Nospam
In addition, Chloe is very much aware of others with gifts such as Aquabro and Victor.


She is? :confused: I know Lana knew something about Cyborg b/c she hit him with her car, but I dont recall Chloe knowing anything about A.C.'s or Victor's secret? I only recall CHloe thinking AC might be some kind of eco-terrorist?

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by khufu
But Chloe is always giving Clark the hero speech, I just don't see why this one is being seen by some as out of character?
I agree she basically gave the same speech she always gives,I think she notice clark is slowly learnin there is more out there to help wit.But is scared so she tried givin him an extra push,in the beginnin of the episode she was suprised he didn't wanna stay behind and help but by the end she was actin normal imo as she always does

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by khufu
But Chloe is always giving Clark the hero speech, I just don't see why this one is being seen by some as out of character?


1. She tells Clark that "even sometimes a hero needs to be saved." Right after MM just saved Clark and he didnt tell her about it.

2. "Fight the good fight" is something MM would say, and sounded a bit weird coming from Chloe

3. I still believe Chloe doesnt know of the existence of others who could help Clark.

4. Clark finds the cookie right where she was standing.

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
She was? :confused: I know Lana knew something about Cyborg b/c she hit him with her car, but I dont recall Chloe knowing anything about A.C.'s or Victor's secret? I only recall CHloe thinking AC might be some kind of eco-terrorist?
Well remember wit ac she asked clark was he a meteor freak and clark said it was sumthin else he swim faster.And remember in the loft he said this wasn't the first time he met sumone who didn't get their powers from greenk(speakin of bart).So she knows ac had powers and tried to help.And I think sumone has pointed out in the VC she has a profile on victor and bart,so now she knows of them 2.So she knows maybe not it all but prob enough or what clark has told her

[ForzaItalia]

I haven't read that many Martian Manhunter comics, but I don't think MM can shape shift. But I do think he can make himself invisible.

I think that was the real Chloe. I think Martian Manhunter was just standing there (invisible) listening into Clark and Chloe's conversation.

[Nospam]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
She was? :confused: I know Lana knew something about Cyborg b/c she hit him with her car, but I dont recall Chloe knowing anything about A.C.'s or Victor's secret? I only recall CHloe thinking AC might be some kind of eco-terrorist?

Absolutely she does. Recall that in Aqua Clark told her that AC could out swim even him, and in Cyborg Chloe was intimately involved in the search for Victor and uncovering the lab responsible for altering him. Chloe even questioned whether Lex was responsible for Victor's "enhancements".

[ginnyfan]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
For those who arent aware, one of Martian Manhunter's abilities is that he's a shape-shifter who can take on any form.

Chloe's conversation with Clark in the loft is really weird for her talking about how "Clark carries the world on his shoulders" and how there are "others out there who can help him do it." Think about it. Chloe doesnt know that, she doesnt know about any of the other heros that have been on the show outside of GA, and she doesnt even really know that he's a good guy yet.

She looks at Clark a bit oddly and then leaves the loft, and right where she was standing is the Oreo cookie, hence the reason Clark examines it.

Rewatch the scene, it makes sense.

OMG! That would be so cool! He is a shape shifter after all (I googled him when I read the spoilers).

But why all the urging to tell him all about what happened. Maybe he could SENSE that Clark needed to talk about it. :)

Also, it is interesting that Chloe wouldn't mention Lex being caught in a strange frequency. Or did she?

That is so cool! I wish it were true. :)

[gj430]

Originally posted by ForzaItalia
I haven't read that many Martian Manhunter comics, but I don't think MM can shape shift. But I do think he can make himself invisible.

I think that was the real Chloe. I think Martian Manhunter was just standing there (invisible) listening into Clark and Chloe's conversation.

Have you ever seen JLU. MM shapeshifts all the time. Though I'm not positive it wasn't him in that scene, I think it was just Chloe and MM had just been there.

[GhostRaider]

Originally posted by ForzaItalia
I haven't read that many Martian Manhunter comics, but I don't think MM can shape shift. But I do think he can make himself invisible.

I think that was the real Chloe. I think Martian Manhunter was just standing there (invisible) listening into Clark and Chloe's conversation.

He can shape shift. In the comics the powers that he has used the most other than flying and his offensive powers when fighting is invisibility, phasing in and out of solid matter, shapeshifting, and telepathy.

[ginnyfan]

OK I'm really starting to buy this theory!!! Her line, "Even Heroes need to be saved sometimes." That is so odd coming from Chloe. What did that have to do with anything? But MM just saved him!!! AHHH! That's cool. :)

[GhostRaider]

Originally posted by ginnyfan
OK I'm really starting to buy this theory!!! Her line, "Even Heroes need to be saved sometimes." That is so odd coming from Chloe. What did that have to do with anything? But MM just saved him!!! AHHH! That's cool. :)

Its also part of the teamwork mantra that he preaches to the other heros of the JLA in the comics. As Isaid before in my own opinion that while Clark will one day become the heart and sole of the JLA it is the MM that will be the glue that holds it together and that has alot to do with the afore mentioned mantra that he is always preaching.

[aft06]

Maybe Chloe been MM the WHOLE TIME. Aww it defintately looks like no Chlark loving with the whole gay alien thing going on. I mean I know TPTB like to push the mythos a bit...

[future-reporter]

that a very good theory i never even thoght of that ill have 2 rewatch the scence

[Krypto/DQ/]

Yes its a very good theory and pretty possible, but is TPTB enough smart to do something like that?

[KryptoKnight]

I like this theory. But why would MM try to trick Clark?

[aumdrew]

I've rewatched the scene over and over and i believe the oreo is simply just evidence that the MM had been there. It is possible he shapeshifted into Chloe but highly improbable. She mentions Raya's crystal and refers to "Zoners"; things MM could have derived from Chloe using his telepathy but i doubt he would have phrased things so similarly to the way Chloe would. i just think it would have been TOO good of an impersonation if it was MM. My vote is that it was Chloe, just maybe a bit out of character in some respects.

i guess maybe we will see for certain later on.

[wraith808]

Well, the one thing that blows this theory out of the water (other than thinking that Clark is a BDA and won't check his cell phone), is that the phone would show if Chloe called or not like she said she did...

[dave73085]

MM could know that Chloe called him...

I'm not holding out for the shapeshifting scenario, but it would be pretty stinkin awesome. You'd think with all the out of character stuff that TPTB love to do they'd be all over it.

Besides, we haven't seen any shapeshifting since Tina Greer's impalement in S2. Much more plausible than static plane weirdness, imo. ;)

[ginnyfan]

Originally posted by Krypto/DQ/
Yes its a very good theory and pretty possible, but is TPTB enough smart to do something like that?

LOL! They probably wouldn't do something this cool.

[Freezeia]

This all sounds intriguing, but I really don't know about it for sure...






What I do know is that all the talk about MM and his love for oreos made me want some myself, so now i am chomping down on some with some nice cold milk.

But to address your thought KryptoKnight, if it was MM which may never be known for sure or not, I don't think his intent was to trick Clark. I didn't watch the episode (at least not yet) but it sounded to me like Chloe gave a bit of a message of hope, and perhaps MM wanted to do that appearing as a friend Clark has always confided in and trusted, rather than some mysterious new alien he knows about that has powers that he used to kill (even if to save Clark)

[1.21 gigawatts]

Nah. I don't think I believe this. Chloe new about Bart and AC. She's fully aware that there are others out there. I just think that J'onn J'onz was in the room with them.

[Naman is 1#]

^^^^^ :confused: What do you mean she new about Bart and AC ?

[MsSullivan]

Wasn't MM. It was Chloe. She knew about the 'zoners' and the crystal and even asked if the crystal worked...MM saved Clark so he knew the crystal didn't work. Plus she has the same clothes she had in the Chlana/Chimmy scene and how would MM know that she was wearing that?

She may have an idea about Bart because of Andrea. In the Vengeance chronicles, Andrea/Molly&Nick give her info on Level 33.1 including Bart having spent some time in there.

And she knows about AC from Aqua.

[Naman is 1#]

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[1.21 gigawatts]

Originally posted by Naman is 1#
^^^^^ :confused: What do you mean she new about Bart and AC ?

'Cause she was there.

[Naman is 1#]

Yeah I know she was there. But are you saying that she knows AC and Barts have abilities?

[D.M.A.]

Originally posted by Naman is 1#
Yeah I know she was there. But are you saying that she knows AC and Barts have abilities?
yea she knows about AC abilities for sure,but wit bart it was stated that she had a file on him in the VC,so I'm guessin she knows of him now 2.But I kno she knows about AC abilities

[Kal-ed]

I dont think the VC stuff counts in the show, its like Baywatch nights, it was the same Mitch Bucanon and same city and he was still a guardian at day, but anything that happened in Baywatch nights had no correlation with regular Baywatch

Im ashamed of the example I used :( :(

[khufu]

Originally posted by Kal-ed
I dont think the VC stuff counts in the show, its like Baywatch nights, it was the same Mitch Bucanon and same city and he was still a guardian at day, but anything that happened in Baywatch nights had no correlation with regular Baywatch

Im ashamed of the example I used :( :( Yes, they do count. Everything that took place in the Chloe Chronicles I, II, and the VCs is considered canon and part of SV continuity.

[Kal-ed]

hmm, well that I think is completely wrong, since not everyone reads them, if someone misses an epi thats one thing, but if somenone like me isnt interested in what Chloe does when Clark is not around, then what should I do?? buy a TP of the VC??

I dont think they shoudl do it really, Im guessing you like it, but not everyon does and since it involves a show I actually take the time to watch, getting stuff happening that are included in canon but that dont apear in the show is ridiculous. So if Chloe gets hit by a bullet in the VC and the next epi she is unexplicably in the hospital I just have to overlook that???

A nother example of how little TPTB care for quality of storytelling, adding offscreen canon. So all time I have wondered about Shelby and the answer was in the VC???

[Superman86]

Did anyone notice how Chloe was wearing the same outfit from the day before? Maybe it was MM.

[The All]

yea i kind of caught that right away as soon as the scene was over. i know alot about MM to know it was him for sure.

[MsSullivan]

Originally posted by Kal-ed
hmm, well that I think is completely wrong, since not everyone reads them, if someone misses an epi thats one thing, but if somenone like me isnt interested in what Chloe does when Clark is not around, then what should I do?? buy a TP of the VC??

I dont think they shoudl do it really, Im guessing you like it, but not everyon does and since it involves a show I actually take the time to watch, getting stuff happening that are included in canon but that dont apear in the show is ridiculous. So if Chloe gets hit by a bullet in the VC and the next epi she is unexplicably in the hospital I just have to overlook that???

A nother example of how little TPTB care for quality of storytelling, adding offscreen canon. So all time I have wondered about Shelby and the answer was in the VC???

Its canon, comfirmed by Mark Warshaw via Tabby. The VCs and CCs are included in the DVDs, if you missed them on the web, you see them on your dvd player.

Plus, the VCs were complimentary to what was happening on SV at the time. (ex Hypnotic lined up with the VC episode "Luthor Mansion" (IIRC) where Lex was out of town in both SV and the VC & Chloe had the Hypnotic clothes.)



She wore another outfit when rescuing lexana w/Jimmy. Chloe was wearing the clothes she wore to check out Level 33.1 & after that we can assume she went to see Clark.

[khufu]

Originally posted by Kal-ed
hmm, well that I think is completely wrong, since not everyone reads them, if someone misses an epi thats one thing, but if somenone like me isnt interested in what Chloe does when Clark is not around, then what should I do?? buy a TP of the VC??"Reads" them? The Chronicles were short videos that followed some of Chloe's intestigations that they didn't have time to follow up with on screen. The Chloe Chrons I & II were included on the SV DVDs. And the Vengeance Chronicles were webisodes that anyone could view on the WB's website. If you haven't seen the VCs and want to see them, I'm fairly positive that they are still out there somewhere for viewing.


I dont think they shoudl do it really, Im guessing you like it, but not everyon does and since it involves a show I actually take the time to watch, getting stuff happening that are included in canon but that dont apear in the show is ridiculous. So if Chloe gets hit by a bullet in the VC and the next epi she is unexplicably in the hospital I just have to overlook that???No, but that's a ridiculous scenario. The purpose of the "extras" is not to replace Smallville, it's to fill in some of the gaps that they weren't able to get to during the course of the normal season. The fact remains, there will always be something that we don't get to see on screen because of time conastraints. So the question is, do you want TPTB to leave a bunch of holes and gaps in the story, or would you at least want to see them address as many of those as they can in an alternate format?

A nother example of how little TPTB care for quality of storytelling, adding offscreen canon.That's not only wrong, it's insulting to TPTB. They put these things together for US. They don't have to, and most shows don't. But they go out of their way to provide the fans with extra Smallville, and you're complaining about it???

So all time I have wondered about Shelby and the answer was in the VC??? I'd rather have the answer presented in the VCs then not presented at all.

[Deana]

Well, if it wasn't Martian Manhunter than a bad episode just got worse. He made this episode.

[dave73085]

Originally posted by khufu

I'd rather have the answer presented in the VCs then not presented at all.

Good call, khufu. I think most people who've seen them would agree the vengeance and chloe chronicles were an awesome thing for smallville to do.

[charmedchick]

if so how would MM know that chloe knows clarks secret? i dont know..

[Son of Kal-El20]

I never thought about that. That would explain the oreo.

Maybe that was MM because Chloe just didn't sound like herself during that scene.

[ShelbyKent]

Originally posted by Krypto/DQ/
Yes its a very good theory and pretty possible, but is TPTB enough smart to do something like that?

:rotfl:

[savingpeoplething]

The idea that Chloe was MM during the barn is an interesting one....


Originally posted by charmedchick
if so how would MM know that chloe knows clarks secret?

...but, this is kinda why I don't think it pans out.
How WOULD MM know that?

[CallMeClark]

That would be so cool, if true.

[savingpeoplething]

Originally posted by Son of Kal-El20
Maybe that was MM because Chloe just didn't sound like herself during that scene.

I actually thought that was VERY Chloe during that scene.
She's always encouraging Clark to be more of a hero and is fairly concerned about him all the time, knows about the zoners, and wants to help him.

I don't think anything she said was out of character.

[Liriel]

Originally posted by savingpeoplething
The idea that Chloe was MM during the barn is an interesting one....



...but, this is kinda why I don't think it pans out.
How WOULD MM know that? I don't think that was MM in that scene, but he is telepathic, so he could know anything Clark knows, really.

[ERIC524892]

As much as I like the idea of the Martian Manhunter posing as Chloe at the end, it seems unlikely to me. Not only is MM the last of his kind, he also remembers his Martian life. He wasn't raised on Earth like Clark. I don't think superheroics is on his mind at this point. For one thing, from what I know about him, he doesn't exactly "like" mankind all that much. The little speech that Chloe gave was her own.

Also, he knows that would only complicate matters regarding introducing himself to Clark. He'd more likely take the appearance of a complete stranger, if not just appear the way Clark saw him.

Besides, the Oreo seemed to be placed / dropped where it was while Clark was distracted by Chloe.

I hope this post is legible, as I'm really tired right now, lol.

Edit: It seems I was wrong about him not liking mankind. I know he didn't "hate" them, I was just under the impression that he found them a bit irritating.

[Dor el]

Great idea! If only TPTB could be so bold.

[Kalel33076]

Well, it would be very possible for MM to know everything about Clark. 1 on the JLU cartoon whenever Manhunters eyes flashed just like on Smallville, that meant that he was mindreading someone. He does not need to be in physical contact with the person. He could have easily gone in there and seen that Chloe knows his secret, all of his powers, about the fortress. Next time we see Clark in the Fortress there better be some oreos on the ground. And as for the reasoning of the droppage. Well maybe Manhunter get so excited about the oreos he can't handle not shaking when he has them. And he probably doesn't believe in the 5 second rule. Stupid Martian 5 second rule!

[HalJordan4184]

The martian manhunter does not hate mankind. In fact, he's been a superhero longer than ANY of the current heroes. He just did it in secret. On his home planet, he was sort of a police officer, and he carried that on with him to Earth, where he polices around, and protects the innocent. Of all the heroes in the DCU, he's the most encouraging of everything Clark can, and will do.

And yes, he is a telepath. The strongest telepath in the DCU. His mind is linked to every mind on Earth, and that's the real reason he has problems here. He can always hear what people are thinking.

On a side note while I'm thinking of it, the whole he hates humans thing is actually the opposite of what's true. He's AFRAID of us. He's scared we would outright reject a straight up alien. Even after Superman's debut, J'ONN still had trouble letting people see him for what he is. Superman may be an alien, but he looks like on of us. J'ONN, looks like a big green martian. Even the look he presents in the JLA, is a humanized version of his actual self, so people will more readily accept him.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

hmmm maybe we need to have a poll added to this thread :)

[KryptoKnight]

I watched that scene again, and as interesting as it might sound, I do not think MM shape shifted into Chloe. He was just there and lost his cookies.

[wraith808]

Originally posted by savingpeoplething
The idea that Chloe was MM during the barn is an interesting one....



...but, this is kinda why I don't think it pans out.
How WOULD MM know that?

He *does* have telepathy.

[Jaded Wolf]

Originally posted by Krypto/DQ/
If I remeber good MM can actually read the mind of anyone and can know all about anybody he wants to know. A telekinesis(doN't know how to spell it) power.

Actually, it's telepathy. Telekinesis is the ability to move objects with your thoughts. Example, Jean Grey from the X-Men is both telekinetic and telepathic.

[Billy Jor-El]

Wow, interesting points. I have to admit I'm not up on all of MM abilities.

If I had his powers I wouldn't turn into Chloe, though. I'd take Chloe in my arms and then turn into a motel :D

[Luthor5339]

Wow. Don't know what to think. I thought MM was just invisible. But, the whole thing- wow, if they do do that. That would be- didn't see that one coming!!!

Watch, next Lex will be eating oreos when talking to Lionell!!!

[Ilovebeinglost]

Totally makes sense now. I posted same thing in the Oreo cookie thread that it was a way to talk to Clark. And it also makes sense that in the previews they kept showing that part when Chloe said " sometimes even superheros need saying." It didn't make sense at the time but yes it sure makes sense now.

[Krypton935]

i was thinking that when I first saw it. Never crossed my mind that it was actually Chloe. I just thought it was MM I know I am intelligent

[InLove_with_Chloe]

Originally posted by KryptoKnight
I watched that scene again, and as interesting as it might sound, I do not think MM shape shifted into Chloe. He was just there and lost his cookies.

I agree.
Interesting idea, though...

[ginnyfan]

Sadly I watched it again and I agree with KryptoKnight too. :)

[InLove_with_Chloe]

Trust me, I would have preferred Clark behaving like a jerk to the MM, rather than to Chloe, in that scene.

[Green Lantern Vox]

Wow, I went to my parents house to watch the episode (their both into it now.. hahah) and I mentioned to my Dad that Martian Manhunter can shape shift and look like people and he mentioned, "oh then was he pretending to be Chloe?" my first thought was woah.. was he? It is cool to come on here and see so many people talking about the possibility. I would love if that is how it turned out.. but it would be a step deeper than Smallville usually goes.. so we'll have to wait and see. :P

[Poweranimals]

I really hope not because she was acting too much like herself. If it was Martian Manhunter, she should've been out of character.

[myankskent]

This thread reminds me a lot of when people said that Lana was really Brainiac last season. The writers are in no way smart enough to pull something like this off.

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by KryptoKnight
I watched that scene again, and as interesting as it might sound, I do not think MM shape shifted into Chloe. He was just there and lost his cookies.

yeah, I almost lost my cookies too...


Maybe he was there and just invisible, like Clark's love life.

[All about Clark]

I have to agree with KryptoKnight as well. Chloe's dialogue wasn't something that MM would have the info to say to Clark. I just think he was there (invisible) and listening to figure Clark out. Plus, Chloe heads in one direction down the stairs, Clark turns away and steps on the cookie, to me, indicating he was in a different direction there where Chloe was.

[nemrod]

maybe chloe really died in the bomb a few years back and MM took her place then in order to look after clark, and is now trying to convince clark to join the JLA...
this would explain her super computer intelligence and always being there to save clark..

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Is a neat theory! And it kind of make sense but I don't think they will had showed him as the tall thae jumped first because it would had taked away the effect.
And I think they would had give us a last image of Chloe smiling as she left... You know a bigger hint.
But I hope they stole this idea for an episode and make him shapeshift into her...And reveal it in the end of the episode...COOL!

[torfinho]

I don't think that's really it....Its just stupid, offcourse it was chloe..

[Krypto/DQ/]

Originally posted by nemrod
maybe chloe really died in the bomb a few years back and MM took her place then in order to look after clark, and is now trying to convince clark to join the JLA...
this would explain her super computer intelligence and always being there to save clark.. :rotfl: :rotfl:

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Originally posted by KryptoKnight
He was just there and lost his cookies.

where I come from that's slang for "throwing up" :D

[Wildfire]

Heck Ill buy MM all the cookeis he wants if he stay around. . .Pretty please.

[smchic92]

So what, the guy is dropping his cookies all over the place now? :lol: I know the whole oreo thing is supposed to give die-hard comic book fans the hint that it is indeed MM, but why is he dropping them all over the place?!!? :lol: He's a really clumsy alien....haha. :D


Seriously though, that's an awesome idea! It would be really cool if it turned out to be true and for the people who said that TPTB aren't clever enough to come up with this: Apparently it looks like they've been doing there homework though. I mean if you ask anyone, they can tell you S6 is the most creative season they've seen of SV so it wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to be extra creative here. And how would they know about the oreos if they didn't like look it up?? I sure as heck didn't know that about him. And I bet if they went through all the trouble to do the oreo thing, they could have just as easily came up with this. So TPTB might actucally have something interesting and sneaky up their sleeves for once. ;) And trust me, this is unusual for me to say about them because I don't really believe in TPTB all that much. :) :p

[milton fine]

he was there just invisable thats one of his powers too

[Spirit Detective]

I never realized this. How many other times has the MM been there to help Clark? Maybe he was Chloe in Sneeze and it was him who helped Clark discovere superbreath.

[Deana]

It probably was Chloe. To bad the writers can't think of anything that cool.

[twinp0wer1008]

wow, good observation!

[Davlok]

Couldn't have been MM otherwise you would have seen Oreos crumbs in her mouth (Jimmy likes the double-stuff).

[bucketofwater]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
For those who arent aware, one of Martian Manhunter's abilities is that he's a shape-shifter who can take on any form.

Chloe's conversation with Clark in the loft is really weird for her talking about how "Clark carries the world on his shoulders" and how there are "others out there who can help him do it." Think about it. Chloe doesnt know that, she doesnt know about any of the other heros that have been on the show outside of GA, and she doesnt even really know that he's a good guy yet.

She looks at Clark a bit oddly and then leaves the loft, and right where she was standing is the Oreo cookie, hence the reason Clark examines it.

Rewatch the scene, it makes sense.

I thought this same thing. But Chloe does say that she tried to call him on his cell phone a couple of times. So then I thought against it. Also, she does know that there are others out there to help him out, she is one of them and she does know about GA, Kid Flash and Cyborg.

So it could go either way.

[S0n0fKrypT0n007]

Maybe it's just me, but the scene SCREAMED MM. Maybe it's just cuz I keep hearing J'onn J'onzz's voice from JL/JLU, but I could jsut imagine MM giving that speech to Clark/Supes. Then again, there's the paradox of whether or not MM would have probed anyone's mind, since he makes it quite clear that he never probes minds without the consent of the person first. But one thing is for sure: MM was present, and either way, I'm glad he was. =)

[lilkoolmaria]

I doubt he would be able to act SO much like Chloe. If he can, give the guy an award for his acting skills. I think he was invisible and just snuck into Clark's loft to spy on him, dropping an Oreo on the way.

[ShelbyKent]

Originally posted by lilkoolmaria
I think he was invisible and just snuck into Clark's loft to spy on him, dropping an Oreo on the way.

I'm leaning towards this theory as well. But I'm not really familiar with the MArtial Manhunter character, so I don't know his usual M.O./traits when he uses his powers...........

[HalJordan4184]

The Martian Manhunter can act EXACTLY like anyone else. When you are a telepath, and can read someone's mind, and figure out how they will act in ANY situation, and how they will talk, it's really easy to get it just right.

[Dor el]

HalJordan, I do appreciate your expert explanations on matters like this. It is good to have someone who knows the mythology as well as you do. Thanks.

[milton fine]

that was chloe just becuse there was an oreo there dosent mean chloe was the martian, plus the real chloe would want to know if clark was ok wouldnt she?the martian saw someone in danger and helped clark thats all, and if the martian was in the barn he has other powers like superspeed and invisablity not just morphing powers so either he was there and speeded away or he was invisable

[superpal1]

I want to vote that MM was cloaked as Chloe, only because that would be cool. I agree with others that MM and GA are working together, so its no stretch to think that MM has been scoping out Clark, thus learning about Chloe and reading her mind. I hope it works out that way.

[InvestigativeReporters]

I don;t know but I think that Chloe was either taken over by MM in the middle of the conversation, or Clark is MM. Hes seems pretty out a character not telling Chloe what went on. Maybe Chloe stepped in while MM was doing a little mental probing trying to discover "the mystery that is Clark Kent"? (lol)

[All about Clark]

It was Chloe and MM was there to learn about Clark and spied on them while being invisible. Only Chloe would be worried about Clark and have the info she said.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Imagine if Jimmy kisses Chloe and says: Hmm you taste like oreos! :lol:

[SVFan7337]

It was the real Chloe, not MM, in the loft. The proof is in her comments. She asks, "So the crystal was a success?" and "then the zoner just decided to pack up and leave the solar system?" The Martian Manhunter wouldn't know about the crystal or the term "zoner" unless he had been following Clark around for awhile, and that would just be silly.

[Bri7]

He is a telepath he knows everything

[SVFan7337]

Omniscient means you know everything. A telepath has to be around someone to know their thoughts. If Chloe was really the MM in the loft, that means he's been following Clark around invisibly since "Zod" in order to know about the crystal and the term "zoner." You guys are giving the writers way too much credit. It was just Chloe. This isn't "Lost" or "24."

[bucketofwater]

It was Chloe in the barn. MM was invisible. Don't give the writers ANY credit. The stupidest plot line is the 1 they have gone with. Always.

[smallvillereporter27]

Originally posted by SVFan7337
If Chloe was really the MM in the loft, that means he's been following Clark around invisibly since "Zod" in order to know about the crystal and the term "zoner." You guys are giving the writers way too much credit. It was just Chloe. This isn't "Lost" or "24."

That's what I was thinking. I don't think the writers would've thought of that...the invisible theory works a lot better. Chloe was just Chloe and MM was invisible in the loft.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
It was Chloe and MM was there to learn about Clark and spied on them while being invisible. Only Chloe would be worried about Clark and have the info she said.

If you had special alien goggles on while watching that scene, you would've seen the MM sitting in the corner of Clark's loft eating a crispy oreo cookie with Shelby sitting next to him.

[1.21 gigawatts]

Originally posted by Kal-ed
I dont think the VC stuff counts in the show, its like Baywatch nights, it was the same Mitch Bucanon and same city and he was still a guardian at day, but anything that happened in Baywatch nights had no correlation with regular Baywatch

Im ashamed of the example I used :( :(

Then explain why in Static Chloe said to Lana, "You can't prove it wasn't here." Then Lana said, "You can't prove it was." It was blatantly obvious that Chloe was holding back from saying, "Yes, I can."

[I_am_LEX]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
Not sure. Though in a lot of versions of the story like the one in the animated JL cartoons, MM watched Clark at times from afar as he was growing up in Smallville since he knew of the destruction of Krypton.

I thought of everything thats been said on here pretty much, the invisible thing, that Chloe was actually MM or maybe that he had just been there, checking out the situation. I do have the feeling that he has been keeping an eye on Clark for a while, which wll prly be cleared up when they actually speak. MM will prly mention it. That would actually make alot of sense. He could actually have been Chloe since he'd know about her being friends with Clark, and also since he can be invisible, he could have learned that she knew Clark's identity by evesdropping or whatever you call it. Thats also how he know about Seattle, he simply followed Clark there just in case he was needed. MM of all the heroes understands Clark the most as far as feeling the 'weight of the world' thing. I'd say it's a combination of all three things, invisible spying, turning into chloe, and watching Clark from afar not only to help him if he needed it, but maybe to make sure Clark is a "good guy"

[lee_the_flee]

excellent observation to the poster of this thread!

[smallvillefreak24]

Really good point, but I still think it was Chloe because of the other stuff she said.

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

One question raises from this:
Since when MM have been following Clark?
I think it was after Zod he probably felt the entrance of evil alien minds into our planet and sek to look after the disturbed Clark one learning as much as posible about him and carefully being ready to help in the case he needed it.
Thoughs?

[bucketofwater]

I think he's been investigating the fallout from the PZ explosion and that led him to Batista, and Clark.

[All about Clark]

It would definitely make sense if MM came to Earth to figure out what happened when the PZ portal was used.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

or maybe MM was in the PZ to begin with somehow and was freed with Clark and the others.

[Blizz]

its obvious its MM since he dropped an OREO in the loft and clark found it, i just watched that scene and yeah its everything about MM there lol

[dave73085]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
or maybe MM was in the PZ to begin with somehow and was freed with Clark and the others.

I seriously doubt that. MM has never been anything but benevolent, and given his backstory (see Wikipedia), I don't think there'd be any reason for him to have had any previous contact with Kryptonians, much less any reason for Jor-El to send him to the PZ.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

I didnt mean he was purposely imprisoned there, I meant maybe he was in the PZ for other reasons.
Contact with Kryptonians is irrelevant seeing as how prisoners fro mthe 28 known galaxies are sent there. Jor-E l just discovered the PZ, he didnt have sole discretion over it.
And MM was aware of Krypton's destruction in the comics.

[bucketofwater]

Chloe called the MM after Clark said he was going to Seattle alone. She wanted someone to keep an eye on him and had done some investegating and gotten his phone number from a "source". She called MM and told him, "Save the Big Dumb Alien, save the world".

[ms.c.]

I would guess it was chloe speaking in the scene but MM was using his invisibility power to spy on them and the oreo was the hint.

[Moonshayde]

I finally got to see this ep and yay! It's just not me who thought Chloe was MM at the end.

The way she was talking about how even heroes need saving sometimes and that others can help him -- to me that was foreshadowing. I am convinced that we didn't see Chloe in that final scene and I have a feeling that MM will pull this trick in the future.

There was an Oreo in his loft after Chloe left. That works for me!

It was brilliant.

[Kryptonian Boy]

That was Chloe, I don't think that it was the Martian Manhunter.