Very Uncharacteristic of Chloe [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 06:04 PM

Out of all people, Lana came to Chloe for advice.. basically if she should sleep with Lex or not. And argue with me if you don't agree but that was some SHADY, THOUGHTLESS, IRRATIONAL advice she gave Lana; spread your wings and go live life? I'm sure Lana can live life without having sex, esp when Lex pressured her??? (Lex: "When are we gonna stop acting like we're roomates.")

So I've broken down the reasons why Chloe would tell Lana to go right on ahead (in furthering her relationship with Lex, having sex with him, however you want to interpret it).....

1. In a way some can see it as she's not being a good friend to Clark, knowing just one episode ago how depressed he looked when he told Chloe he just saw Lana and that it felt like they were strangers... HOWEVER I disagree because I understand that Lana is also Chloe's friend... and she should want the best for Lana (with or without Clark) BUT LEX???? What has Chloe learned this past 1-5 season about Lex? About the Luthors?

2. She always knew Clark and Lana would never work out... BUT LEX???? She very much knew that also because if she knew Lana, she would know Lex isn't the one for Lana.

*****3. Chloe is confused. The advice she was giving to Lana, was advice Chloe was giving herself. When Lana told Chloe Lex didn't think she was over Clark, Chloe knew exactly what that felt like. Chloe use to like Clark... Chloe had to get over Clark and SPREAD HER WINGS AND LIVE/move on,etc. And even though spreading her wings partly meant dating Jimmy who looks like someone's annouying little brother, at least Chloe knows enough about Jimmy to konw that he is HARMLESS. Unlike Lex.

Buttom line, if Chloe was truely a good friend, she would've asked exactly what Lana was unsure about, or reasons why Lana thinks she would be losing her identity if she "went through with this", and overall try to understand the situation better, if not then don't say anything. Instead she took it lightly, because if Lana turned to Chloe about such a personal matter, that means that means Lana is taking it seriously. (Remember when Lana told Chloe in season4 that Jason wanted a more adult relationship aka sex) Chloe did have a one-night stand in high school with someone she wasn't even in a relationship with..... So no one should have the right to call Lana a slut. And I'm not trying to defend Lana here(esp not after this episode), what I'm trying to say is Chloe should've either reminded herself that Lana isn't like her (Lana admitted herself she doesn't trust herself to make the right decision.. that's why she trusted Chloe), and Lana isn't just in some other realionship; she's in a relationship with Lex.

I guess the matter is that this whole Lexana ordeal urks me, and no one in this show is doing anything about it. I know it's none of Chloe's business, but knowing Lex, if Chloe was a good friend, she too would protect her friend from someone like Lex.

mfarhaniqbal33

10-13-2006, 06:08 PM

I thought Chloe did the right thing......She told Lana that Lex wouldnt never be her first choice and then she was like not first but wouldnt even be on the list.........She indirectly told her that Lex is not a good guy....but it is up to lana for how to take it.....believe me guyz lana is all about this.....What r u hiding...What is that .........why is that.......should i believe u......should i do this.........lana wouldnt not listen to anybody even after taking the advice tell me how many time she got an advice n actually took it seriously

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:12 PM

Originally posted by mfarhaniqbal33
lana wouldnt not listen to anybody even after taking the advice tell me how many time she got an advice n actually took it seriously

how about last night? Chloe told her that she needed to grow some fins and dive in and in the last couple of minutes of the episode, that's exactly what she did with Lex.

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:13 PM

There's another thread about this made, although I do agree with you.

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:15 PM

Threads like this don't make sense. Chloe has a life and she basically told Lana that I'm not going to listen to you whine for the next 30 days and then rip my head off!! Lana caught Lex peeping into her bedroom and she went nowhere. Lana knows how Lex is and she will start acting the same over the next few weeks. This Chloe wasn't a good friend is silly!!

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:17 PM

FOG

10-13-2006, 06:17 PM

I agree. I feel the same, Chloe wants to be a good friend to Lana but knows that Lex isn't a good relationship for her. Which I did find strange that she told Lana to live life but I guess she wants to see Lana happy...

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:21 PM

Exactly, what's Chloe supposed to do, hold Lana's hand? Lana is still there with Lex after he was playing peeping Tom. Chloe just told Lana to make a decision and live with it. She even told Lana trhat Lex shouldn't even be on the list, but she knows Lana will do nothing but whine for 30 days so she told her to make a decision!!

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 06:23 PM

If Chloe truely believes Lana will be happy with Lex... then that makes me sad. It just doesn't make sense to me that Chloe would tell Lana about the right guy, "I don't think Lex would be on my number, or even on the list", yet she implies the GO FOR IT ANYWAY advice.

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:24 PM

Exactly, what's Chloe expected to do? When she helps Clark Chloe does too much, when she doesn't sit down with Lana and listen to her whine all day she doesn't do enough. Give me a break!!

Liriel

10-13-2006, 06:24 PM

I love Chloe, but think she gave bad advice to Lana there. As friends, she and Clark should have filled Lana in on some of the stuff Lex did ages ago (particularly in Cyborg, since they wouldn't be revealing Clark's secret or anyone else's).

I disagree wholeheartedly that Chloe has been a bad friend to Clark in any shape, form or fashion this season.

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 06:27 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Exactly, what's Chloe supposed to do, hold Lana's hand? Lana is still there with Lex after he was playing peeping Tom. Chloe just told Lana to make a decision and live with it. She even told Lana trhat Lex shouldn't even be on the list, but she knows Lana will do nothing but whine for 30 days so she told her to make a decision!!

Yeah Chloe has a life, but even if she does she always made time for Clark when he whined and complained last season. What makes this one so different?

azi

10-13-2006, 06:31 PM

I posted this on another thread but it fits here perfectly too.
I think at this point she couldn’t do more. What exactly could she say about Lex? He hasn’t really been so bad (I know it's strange). Aqua- I’m not sure if Chloe knows. Ok, Lex doesn't like fish. Cyborg-he was doing this for mankind. What else please fill me in?
Does she have any proof? She can’t reveal Clark's secret, not now.
Maybe she simply doesn’t know that Lex is going to be a super villain and a criminal mastermind. Is that true by the way?
I also think that since Lana lives with Lex Chloe thinks that she has made up her mind.
The show is a mess and so am I.

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:33 PM

That was totally different!! She still had some feelings for Clark, and she knows the guys an alien!! The reporter in her is gonna be curious. Here's a guy that can leap tall buildings in a single bound!! What do you expect?

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:35 PM

Originally posted by azi
I posted this on another thread but it fits here perfectly too.
I think at this point she couldn’t do more. What exactly could she say about Lex? He hasn’t really been so bad (I know it's strange). Aqua- I’m not sure if Chloe knows. Ok, Lex doesn't like fish. Cyborg-he was doing this for mankind. What else please fill me in?
Does she have any proof? She can’t reveal Clark's secret, not now.
Maybe she simply doesn’t know that Lex is going to be a super villain and a criminal mastermind. Is that true by the way?
I also think that since Lana lives with Lex Chloe thinks that she has made up her mind.
The show is a mess and so am I.

I think that she can tell Lana about Cyborg. She can tell her about many things that she knows without giving away Clark's secret. The bottom line is that if Lana chooses to not believe her or not listen to her, then that's her problem. But telling Lana that she needs to grow fins and dive in is simply not good advice in this case.

VisionGirl

10-13-2006, 06:38 PM

Lana shmana.

I think Chloe's a bad friend because Lois lets her move in and how does she repay her? Acts put upon, bad mouths her to Clark and shares a laugh at her expense.

That's gratitude.

Polomontana

10-13-2006, 06:40 PM

Of course it's good advice, when you tell her that Lex shouldn't even be on a list!! She will talk about Lex and then Lana would sleep with Lex and the chew Chloe out. Look Lana, just make your decision and live with it!! Chloe can't play Dr. Phil all the time. She's dealing with a guy from Krypton!!

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by Polomontana
Of course it's good advice, when you tell her that Lex shouldn't even be on a list!! She will talk about Lex and then Lana would sleep with Lex and the chew Chloe out. Look Lana, just make your decision and live with it!! Chloe can't play Dr. Phil all the time. She's dealing with a guy from Krypton!!

Chloe said that Lex wouldn't be on her list, not shouldn't be on a list. And what does that mean exactly? All that tells me is that Lex isn't a guy that Chloe likes, it doesn't imply that he is evil. Sorry, but that's not good advice.

azi

10-13-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
I think that she can tell Lana about Cyborg. She can tell her about many things that she knows without giving away Clark's secret.
Be more specific - what things?

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 06:47 PM

Who's asking her to play dr. Phil? If Lana went straight to Chloe for advice, then it better be some darn thoughful advice. Not go do whatever you want and live with it. That's not being a good friend.

Liriel

10-13-2006, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by azi
Be more specific - what things? I, Chloe-lover, Chloiser, and Chlarker will be more specific. Chloe could tell Lana that Lex was behind what was done to Victor, and behind his girlfriend's kidnapping and Victor's being captured again. Lana already knows about what was done to Victor, so Chloe wouldn't be betraying any secrets there. How does she know? Victor told Clark that Lex was there, and she could tell Lana how she found out that Lex owned the company indirectly and Lex was present when they had Victor strapped down and were going to put that chip in him.

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by azi
Be more specific - what things?

The fact that Lex dragged her to the caves in the middle of a meteor shower and put her life in danger as a result of it. She could tell Lana everything about Cyborg since that wouldn't give Clark's secret away. She could tell Lana that he had Aquaman strapped to a table. She could tell her about all of the suspicious things that Lex has done that Chloe has found out through her hacking. There's plenty to tell, and remember, all Chloe has to do is tell Lana a couple of these things, she doesn't have to tell her everything. A couple of things compared to nothing that she told Lana would make a big difference, IMO.

sari_chem

10-13-2006, 06:53 PM

Chloe shouldn't have implied that Lana should just "dive in" instead of watching other people be happy. And she shouldn't have said that she didn't know if Lex was the right guy for Lana . So I didn't buy that whole "I don't know if Lex is the right guy for you but..." (or something like that). What Chloe should have said was the truth. No sugar coating. She should have told Lana that Lex could not be trusted, that she firmly believes that Lex will hurt Lana, and that Lex is dangerous. Chloe should have told her that she is against Lana dating Lex.

If Lana doesn't believe her, then that's Lana's problem.

Lana needed someone to confirm her doubts about Lex. Chloe did the opposite.

Chloe is not a bad friend, but her advice in this instant was wrong.

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by azi
Be more specific - what things?

It's not about Chloe telling Lana what she knows, but the fact that Chloe knows, is bad enough. Chloe knows Lex is bad... not super vilian bad yet, but enough she wouldn't recommend a friend to jump into a relationship with someone like him. Chloe shouldn't have just rolled over and think Lana made her decision, because Lana obviously didn't if she's having doubts and told Chloe "I haven't made right decisions..." Hello? Can Chloe do something more than say grow some wings and live life and deal with it. Lana could mess up and learn from her mistakes.... but it wouldn't hurt to have a friend to watch her back and help her not make those wrong mistakes, esp if Lana has doubts/knows she might regret it.

sari_chem

10-13-2006, 06:57 PM

^^plus the mistake that Lana makes by being with Lex isn't your garden variety mistake. It could actually cost her her life. Chloe knows that.

myankskent

10-13-2006, 06:58 PM

^Excellent point.

smallville_fetish

10-13-2006, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by sari_chem
Chloe shouldn't have implied that Lana should just "dive in" instead of watching other people be happy. And that Chloe knows that Lex isn't the guy for lana. So I didn't buy that whole "I don't know if Lex is the right guy for you" (or something like that. What Chloe should have said was the truth. No sugar coating. She should have told Lana that Lex could not be trusted, that she firmly believes that Lex will hurt Lana, and that Lex is dangerous. Chloe should have told her that she is against Lana dating Lex.

If Lana doesn't believe her, then that's Lana's problem.

Lana needed someone to confirm her doubts about Lex. Chloe did the opposite.

Chloe is not a bad friend, but her advice in this instant was wrong.

I agree. This isn't bagging on Chloe, just at this instant Chloe should've bit her tongue and really thought for a second. She could've told Lana to simply wait till Lana didn't have anymore doubts, to make decisions.... because no one is rushing her (except Lex... which that alone should've told Lana something). Chloe didn't have to emphasize why Lex is a bad guy, but she really shouldn't have told Lana to dive in and be happy, because if Lex wasn't the right guy, of course Lana isn't going to be happy... and she's going to regret A LOT of things.. things that Chloe might've had an effect on (she went to Chloe for advice, doesn't that mean something?) Chloe really had nothing to lose if she told Lana elsewise.

HotStudsSuccess

10-13-2006, 07:20 PM

I loved what Chloe said to Lana, and other words she called Lex a Loser.

If you want to get down to it. No holding back :lol:

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 08:15 PM

Originally posted by sari_chem
^^plus the mistake that Lana makes by being with Lex isn't your garden variety mistake. It could actually cost her her life. Chloe knows that.
well that's true

Originally posted by smallville_fetish
I agree. This isn't bagging on Chloe, just at this instant Chloe should've bit her tongue and really thought for a second. She could've told Lana to simply wait till Lana didn't have anymore doubts, to make decisions.... because no one is rushing her (except Lex... which that alone should've told Lana something). Chloe didn't have to emphasize why Lex is a bad guy, but she really shouldn't have told Lana to dive in and be happy, because if Lex wasn't the right guy, of course Lana isn't going to be happy... and she's going to regret A LOT of things.. things that Chloe might've had an effect on (she went to Chloe for advice, doesn't that mean something?) Chloe really had nothing to lose if she told Lana elsewise.
well she kind of did when she said that if lana is havin doubts now that they may never go away.That's why I dont fault her advise she tells lana how she wouldn't if it was her,and how if there r any doubts now then they may never go away.So it was up to lana after that much whether she told lana everything or not,lana still made the decision that SHE thinks she can handle.Chloe still put it out there for her to think about/givin options now what lana does wit her advise is diff.Which is why I dont fault her advise to lana nor lana decision at the end,cause that's what lana decided no matter what SHE can live wit.

myankskent

10-13-2006, 08:25 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.

well she kind of did when she said that if lana is havin doubts now that they may never go away.That's why I dont fault her advise she tells lana how she wouldn't if it was her,and how if there r any doubts now then they may never go away.So it was up to lana after that much whether she told lana everything or not,lana still made the decision that SHE thinks she can handle.Chloe still put it out there for her to think about/givin options now what lana does wit her advise is diff.Which is why I dont fault her advise to lana nor lana decision at the end,cause that's what lana decided no matter what SHE can live wit.

Alright, now we're getting down to it. If you go back to the discussion, Chloe told Lana that if she doesn't trust Lex now, then she shouldn't go through with it. At that point, Lana then goes into how she blames her trust issues on other people, and that she doesn't trust herself because she gets into these situations that she cannot get out of. That is where Chloe has to say that Lex is bad and go into detail. Lana was pinning the blame on herself and Chloe was in essence, agreeing with her by saying that she has to grow some fins and dive in. Chloe's gotta speak up there, I'm sorry, but that's a bad scene for Chloe. I just went back and watched it and I am convinced of this.

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Alright, now we're getting down to it. If you go back to the discussion, Chloe told Lana that if she doesn't trust Lex now, then she shouldn't go through with it. At that point, Lana then goes into how she blames her trust issues on other people, and that she doesn't trust herself because she gets into these situations that she cannot get out of. That is where Chloe has to say that Lex is bad and go into detail. Lana was pinning the blame on herself and Chloe was in essence, agreeing with her. Chloe's gotta speak up there, I'm sorry, but that's a bad scene for Chloe. I just went back and watched it and I am convinced of this.
well I got 2 diff vibes from lana confession,that she blames herself and clark.Tho she didn't mention him I felt everytime she made a statement about gettin close to sumone and then findin out too late she made a bad choice was moreso about clark than her judgement.But ur right at that moment chloe could have spoken up,but then again she didn't have too.The same as ppl r sayin chloe has nothin to lose by tellin lana about lex she still doesn't by not tellin her.What I got from the scene was chloe tryin to be a good friend and put her own issues wit lex aside to tell lana that whether its him or whomever she has to make a choice that she can live wit.Which imo is why lana decided to go along wit sleepin wit lex,cause tho he question her about lettin him get closer he never asked for sex straight out,just as jason didn't either.But for sum reason lana assumed that in order for her to take the next step she has to sleep wit him,imo that was all her there.The scene was suppose to remind us of unsafe discussion wit chloe but if u notice chloe advise was pretty much the same(Whether she knows about lex or not),this was a friend askin if she should get close.She was askin for an unbiased opinion so chloe gave her one,but I do agree there was a moment when chloe could have spoken up.But I don't feel its her job too,friend or not...

Deana

10-13-2006, 08:49 PM

Wow, just let this little pep talk had been the other way around...Lana would be getting ripped to shreds here about that bad advice.

It was bad advice plain and simple. Is Chloe trying to get her biggest obstacle out of the way? Who knows.

Fact is, she's been acting weird to Lois and now Lana.

myankskent

10-13-2006, 08:50 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
well I got 2 diff vibes from lana confession,that she blames herself and clark.Tho she didn't mention him I felt everytime she made a statement about gettin close to sumone and then findin out too late she made a bad choice was moreso about clark than her judgement.But ur right at that moment chloe could have spoken up,but then again she didn't have too.The same as ppl r sayin chloe has nothin to lose by tellin lana about lex she still doesn't by not tellin her.What I got from the scene was chloe tryin to be a good friend and put her own issues wit lex aside to tell lana that whether its him or whomever she has to make a choice that she can live wit.Which imo is why lana decided to go along wit sleepin wit lex,cause tho he question her about lettin him get closer he never asked for sex straight out,just as jason didn't either.But for sum reason lana assumed that in order for her to take the next step she has to sleep wit him,imo that was all her there.The scene was suppose to remind us of unsafe discussion wit chloe but if u notice chloe advise was pretty much the same(Whether she knows about lex or not),this was a friend askin if she should get close.She was askin for an unbiased opinion so chloe gave her one,but I do agree there was a moment when chloe could have spoken up.But I don't feel its her job too,friend or not...

Well I think it's her job to, because she is Lana's friend and she knows that Lana could end up dead as a result of being around Lex. This even goes beyond friendship. Chloe, IMO, should stop anyone from getting too close to Lex because she should know better. You have a girl, or friend, going to her for advice about Lex and she tells them to dive in? Not a good thing to say.

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 09:04 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Well I think it's her job to, because she is Lana's friend and she knows that Lana could end up dead as a result of being around Lex. This even goes beyond friendship. Chloe, IMO, should stop anyone from getting too close to Lex because she should know better. You have a girl, or friend, going to her for advice about Lex and she tells them to dive in? Not a good thing to say.
well even if she would have told her everythin we cant be sure that lana wouldn't have done it anyways.The last time chloe tried to step in on lexana lana came at her wrong,so maybe chloe jus made her mind up that no matter what its lana decision to make.Jus as she use to tell clark that it was lana decision to make if he told.I don't think the advise is as bad as sum r statin,imo there was no right or wrong answer to her advise.

angelfire east

10-13-2006, 09:08 PM

MOD NOTE:

I've merged two threads on the same topic together.

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 09:08 PM

Originally posted by Deana
Wow, just let this little pep talk had been the other way around...Lana would be getting ripped to shreds here about that bad advice.

It was bad advice plain and simple. Is Chloe trying to get her biggest obstacle out of the way? Who knows.

Fact is, she's been acting weird to Lois and now Lana.
actually no if lana was givin chloe advise on takin a chance anti would be happy thinkin that she'd move on.I dont think it was bad on chloe part jus as I dont think it would be bad on lana if it was her sayin it.There jus wasn't a right or wrong answer,cause while we the audience kno that she could tell lana,there really isn 't a reason for her to get involved in it now.She was the one tellin clark that he'd have to accept it,so comin out tellin lex lil dirt wouldn't change nothin,we've seen lana stick by her current guy even when she shouldn't.What makes this time diff,whether it was clark/chloe or however tellin her intil she see it,she will stick by him.That's lana,and it goes back to her not trustin herself,she'll have doubts but then again doubt herself if she leaves the person too.So no matter what chloe have said it the outcome would have been the same imo

InLove_with_Chloe

10-13-2006, 09:11 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
That is where Chloe has to say that Lex is bad and go into detail. Lana was pinning the blame on herself and Chloe was in essence, agreeing with her by saying that she has to grow some fins and dive in. Chloe's gotta speak up there, I'm sorry, but that's a bad scene for Chloe. I just went back and watched it and I am convinced of this.

I totally agree.
There was a blond, female character in 'wither' that they called 'Chloe', but I honestly have no idea who she was?!? What were they thinking? Everything she did or said was kind of out of character...
How Lana came to her for help was kind of cute, and then that... Can one call that advice? Amongst friends?!?

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
I totally agree.
There was a blond, female character in 'wither' that they called 'Chloe', but I honestly have no idea who she was?!? What were they thinking? Everything she did or said was kind of out of character...
How Lana came to her for help was kind of cute, and then that... Can one call that advice? Amongst friends?!?
that's because they never really were friends to begin wit,yes I agree they grew closer thruout the series but their bond was because of clark.Now that clana is no longer together,not even speakin fo real they have no real reason to be as honest towards each other.Lana ran to lex last yr,just as clark ran to chloe allow the 2 girls to really put a strain on their friendship.It wasn't the best friendship in the first place but now they really aren't close,tho everyone is right she could have told(And I do agree)she didn't have too.Lana has made it clear that her luv life is none of her concern,and since they haven't been as close lately I felt that lana even comin to her was weird.True I agree myankskent chloe had a chance to tell her everything,but she didn't have too.And I felt as tho that's how she came off when talkin to lana...when she first mention that if she doesn't trust him now she may never or how he wouldn't be on her list,lana expression quickly changed.It went from her seekin advise to thinkin chloe would come wit a biased opinion and I think she may have picked up on lana vibe and jus told her that it was her choice.Which in the end it was and lana decided to go ahead,nothin is wrong wit sleepy wit ur bf,yes it does look like lex manipulated her into it,but that's lex.However chloe isn't obligated to tell her anythin now,she could have yes but she didn't have too.So I see nothin wrong wit it,I jus feel no matter what chloe would have done it still wouldn't change the outcome.So in that case tellin her wasn't necessary

InLove_with_Chloe

10-13-2006, 09:34 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
that's because they never really were friends to begin wit,yes I agree they grew closer thruout the series but their bond was because of clark.Now that clana is no longer together,not even speakin fo real they have no real reason to be as honest towards each other.Lana ran to lex last yr,just as clark ran to chloe allow the 2 girls to really put a strain on their friendship.It wasn't the best friendship in the first place but now they really aren't close,tho everyone is right she could have told(And I do agree)she didn't have too.Lana has made it clear that her luv life is none of her concern,and since they haven't been as close lately I felt that lana even comin to her was weird.True I agree myankskent chloe had a chance to tell her everything,but she didn't have too.And I felt as tho that's how she came off when talkin to lana...when she first mention that if she doesn't trust him now she may never or how he wouldn't be on her list,lana expression quickly changed.It went from her seekin advise to thinkin chloe would come wit a biased opinion and I think she may have picked up on lana vibe and jus told her that it was her choice.Which in the end it was and lana decided to go ahead,nothin is wrong wit sleepy wit ur bf,yes it does look like lex manipulated her into it,but that's lex.However chloe isn't obligated to tell her anythin now,she could have yes but she didn't have too.So I see nothin wrong wit it,I jus feel no matter what chloe would have done it still wouldn't change the outcome.So in that case tellin her wasn't necessary

Sure, Chloe doesn't have to do/tell her anything, but I think the fact that they have never been super-close friends should not be a reason for Chloe to give lana crappy advice. I thought she's a better person than that... Maybe her mind was somewhere else. She was most likely dreaming of Jimmy in his pink boxer shorts.

All about Clark

10-13-2006, 09:38 PM

I took it as Chloe saying she can't keep Clark's ghost in the picture between her and Lex. She advised Lana to live life, not necessarily to sleep with Lex. She also indicated Lex shouldn't be a love interest. That left Lana to interpret living life anyway she felt it to be. I didn't see it as OOC.

Personally, I thought it was more important that Chloe told her if she doesn't trust Lex now than that won't change. But Lana didn't weigh this very carefully.

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
Sure, Chloe doesn't have to do/tell her anything, but I think the fact that they have never been super-close friends should not be a reason for Chloe to give lana crappy advice. I thought she's a better person than that... Maybe her mind was somewhere else. She was most likely dreaming of Jimmy in his pink boxer shorts.
naw I'm sayin if u look at lana expressions when chloe says he wouldn't be on her list period it was clear that lana wouldn't have taken chloe advise serious.Lana may have thought that chloe would be biased,my only prob wit blamin chloe is that no matter what we all kno lana would have still slept wit lex(No matter what chloe said).Lana isn't the type to jus leave her bf like that,if he's sick or she think he's bein treated unfair she always give them the benefit of the doubt.If anythin lana grows closer to her bf,so that's why I feel that no matter what chloe said it wouldn't have made a diff.So what would be the point if lana still goes thru wit it,now if it were sumone other than clark or even chloe at this point maybe she would listen.But I jus don't see chloe choice of words makin a diff,which imo should have been left out(Which they did).Its lana not trustin herself and not bein able to make goodjudgement,not chloe advise.Cause honestly she was bein trueful lana has to take a chance(It may be right may be wrong)and live wit it.And she did imo her whole talk wit chloe wasn't necessary,and felt out of place period.Not jus cause of the advise

InLove_with_Chloe

10-13-2006, 09:43 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
naw I'm sayin if u look at lana expressions when chloe says he wouldn't be on her list period it was clear that lana wouldn't have taken chloe advise serious.Lana may have thought that chloe would be biased,my only prob wit blamin chloe is that no matter what we all kno lana would have still slept wit lex(No matter what chloe said).Lana isn't the type to jus leave her bf like that,if he's sick or she think he's bein treated unfair she always give them the benefit of the doubt.If anythin lana grows closer to her bf,so that's why I feel that no matter what chloe said it wouldn't have made a diff.So what would be the point if lana still goes thru wit it,now if it were sumone other than clark or even chloe at this point maybe she would listen.But I jus don't see chloe choice of words makin a diff,which imo should have been left out(Which they did).Its lana not trustin herself and not bein able to make goodjudgement,not chloe advise.Cause honestly she was bein trueful lana has to take a chance(It may be right may be wrong)and live wit it.And she did imo her whole talk wit chloe wasn't necessary,and felt out of place period.Not jus cause of the advise

OK, I see your point. The scene was about Lana, not Chloe. You are right. That's actually how I felt when I watched it, I remember now. I was like:'...ok, now we finally get a glimpse of what it looks like inside Ms Lang...'. Wasn't a big revelation, though. Like you said, it was clear what she was going to do...

D.M.A.

10-13-2006, 09:48 PM

Originally posted by All about Clark
I took it as Chloe saying she can't keep Clark's ghost in the picture between her and Lex. She advised Lana to live life, not necessarily to sleep with Lex. She also indicated Lex shouldn't be a love interest. That left Lana to interpret living life anyway she felt it to be. I didn't see it as OOC.

Personally, I thought it was more important that Chloe told her if she doesn't trust Lex now than that won't change. But Lana didn't weigh this very carefully.
exactly,no matter what chloe could say lana still would have went thru wit sleepin wit him.She never once let on to sleep wit the guy,but did put it out there that lana should rethink bein in a relationship wit him(Her comments about not trustin him later).However lana decided her definition of livin life/lettin lex in was to sleep wit him.And yes the whole time lana was talkin about not trustin/lettin ppl in then findin out too late was implied about clark.So imo chloe was tellin her that she can't blame clark for her doubts in lex,which is why she stated that lana may not trust him later either.So I agree that's what I got out of the discussion but of course ppl will see diff.I do agree she could have told sum of lex dirt but it wouldn't have made a diff,doesn't mean chloe was wrong tho wit the advise.

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
OK, I see your point. The scene was about Lana, not Chloe. You are right. That's actually how I felt when I watched it, I remember now. I was like:'...ok, now we finally get a glimpse of what it looks like inside Ms Lang...'. Wasn't a big revelation, though. Like you said, it was clear what she was going to do...
yea my bad if I wasn't clear,I do agree wit myankskent that chloe could have told but imo it jus wouldn't have made a diff.We gotta remember this is lana lang were talkin about not chloe,she was blamin her doubts on clark.And chloe was tellin sumwhat to let the clark hate go,if this is sumthin she wants to do don't let nothin hold u back.But in all it was lana choice,so of course she did what she felt she had to do/what was right to her.Nothin wrong wit it,will she realize it was a mistake later yes.But its a lesson she'll have to learn.Jus as clark will learn to deal wit not tellin lana and not bein together.But yea that's all I meant,I still agree wit myankskents tho that she could have told,but jus didn't see the need.

khufu

10-13-2006, 10:03 PM

Chloe is 100% responsible for who Lana dates and who she decides to sleep with. She's also responsible for picking out Lana's wardrobe, deciding which classes she should take, tying her shoes, and wiping her butt when she makes boom boom in her diaper.

Deana

10-13-2006, 10:10 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
actually no if lana was givin chloe advise on takin a chance anti would be happy thinkin that she'd move on.I dont think it was bad on chloe part jus as I dont think it would be bad on lana if it was her sayin it.There jus wasn't a right or wrong answer,cause while we the audience kno that she could tell lana,there really isn 't a reason for her to get involved in it now.She was the one tellin clark that he'd have to accept it,so comin out tellin lex lil dirt wouldn't change nothin,we've seen lana stick by her current guy even when she shouldn't.What makes this time diff,whether it was clark/chloe or however tellin her intil she see it,she will stick by him.That's lana,and it goes back to her not trustin herself,she'll have doubts but then again doubt herself if she leaves the person too.So no matter what chloe have said it the outcome would have been the same imo

What I meant is let it have been the other way around with Lana giving Chloe advice about Lex.

If those words would've come out of her mouth that came out of Chloe's, with the adding bonus of her knowing Lex is dangerous, this thread would be a bazillion pages long bashing Lana for giving precious Chloe bad advice.

I'm calling it for what it was...bad advice.

Farm_Girl

10-13-2006, 11:56 PM

Her advice to Lana, and the other thing that everyone seems to forget are her behind the back comments about Lois. I don’t like both.

Honestly, I have always loved Chloe but it seems like in season 6, the writers want to show us a somewhat different version of Chloe that I am not sure most people will like, but there could be some reasons behind it. May be, the writers want to shatter that image of Chloe is perfect from Chloe fans minds who are worshipping her as the female lead of the show for some time now.

I wouldn’t mind to see where her character leads now. Her jealousy to Lois in Sneeze and her remarks about her in Whither have made me loose interest in Chloe. The only good thing about her was Chlo-Lo and now even that is dead!

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 12:08 AM

I think Chloe was a great friend to Lana. She epressed her opinon about Lex (he wouldn't even be on my list) but respected Lana's feelings... Her advice went to the heart of Lana's issues. She's got to stop holding back from life out of fear and jump in. It's not Chloe's fault that Lana interprets that to mean jump into bed with Lex. LOL!

I don't think Chloe was badmouthing Lois. Clark and Chloe are both two people who love Lois... but she's... not an easy going person... Lois is... a handfull... I think it was supposed to be loving. Clark did the worst bad mouthing of the two of them... and he's the one who introduced the topic. So if you guys or going to be mad at anyone... it should be Clark...

I thought they were just venting... b/c Lois can be tough to deal with at times. She's prickly... :) I don't think it was malicious. They both love Lois. (Sigh.)

What's uncharacteristic of Chloe? Bad mouthing Lois... Well it's not at all uncharacteristic of Clark... and he's the one who introduced the topic so... I'm so sick of all the Chloe vs. Lois stuff... And we know that deep down Clark and Lois are friends. So moot point IMHO. :)

Atomic girl

10-14-2006, 12:13 AM

Wow, such emotions over some advice.

My 2 cents worth. Chloe gave some bad advice but I didn't get the impression she was doing it with any bad motivation. Everyone is entitled to make a bad call. It's hard to imagine that anything Chloe said would really influence Lana into anything she didn't already want to do. I think she was trying to give Lana some stuff to think about without giving her the impression that if she did stay with Lex, that their friendship would be over. I think she was trying to preserve whatever friendship they still had.

Sometimes when you give such strong advice about something, it only alienates the person from coming to you later when they realize they blew it. Lana has already demonstrated in many ways that she trusts Lex more than Clark. Chloe and Clark are such good friends that it would be too easy to lump Chloe in with Clark if she gets the same line from both of them.

In earlier situations:

When Chloe and Lana had a talk about going further with Jason, Chloe told Lana to really make sure, and we saw Lana throw herself at Jason. When she was together with Clark and they were "discussing" the next step, she was the one saying they had waited long enough. Clark was the one who put the brakes on at that moment. Lana has alway needed the attention of some guy, and doesn't want to risk losing it. I'm sure Chloe has noticed the trend.

If Chloe had really thought her anti-Lex message would have come through and been believed, I believe she would have given it. Unfortunately that's not the case. There are many reasons why the Lana/Chloe relationship isn't as strong as it could have been, but reality is they are not that close.

At one point Lana was taking advise from Lois, why not go to her? Lois would have given her the straight message, but did Lana really want that? I can only surmise that she didn't or she would have gone to her.

Lana may be blinded by what she wants to believe. In the end it is her decision. While Chloe's advice isn't what I would want from a friend, I'm not sure Chloe (under the circumstances) is who I would go to for advice either.

JMHO

CK&CK

10-14-2006, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by Farm_Girl
Her advice to Lana, and the other think that everyone seems to forget are her behind the back comments about Lois. I don’t like both.

Honestly, I have always loved Chloe but it seems like in season 6, the writers want to show us a somewhat different version of Chloe that I am not sure most people will like, but there could be some reasons behind it. May be, the writers want to shatter that image of Chloe is perfect from Chloe fans minds who are worshipping her as the female lead of the show for some time now.

I wouldn’t mind to see where her character leads now. Her jealousy to Lois in Sneeze and her remarks about her in Whither have made me loose interest in Chloe. The only good thing about her was Chlo-Lo and now even that is dead!

I don't think your looking at it objectively....just my opinion. Chloe Loves Lois and vice a versa......doesn't mean they can't drive each other nuts under the same roof. They are the cousins who are more like sisters.....and siblings are that way all the time. And I think Chloe's jealousy to Lois in Sneeze was a refrence to how beautiful Lois (Erica Durance) is........certainly not her writting skills....at least for the moment. And this self admitted jealousy was more along the lines of a sweet compliment........definitely not said with the same envy of say Chloe talking about the "raven haired" Lana as in the first couple of seasons. I'm actually getting mixed signals in regards to your Love for Chloe........but that's just me........and I'm not saying I couldn't be wrong about this......but somehow my gut is telling me otherwise.......especially with you not mentioning Clark's behind the back comments about Lois using her mouth so much (unless I missed a post somewhere along the line). But hey, I know he likes her more than he lets on, and as such I don't regard his comments (same as Chloe's) with any malicious intent. And to me, that's the real key here.

InLove_with_Chloe

10-14-2006, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by CK&CK
And I think Chloe's jealousy to Lois in Sneeze was a refrence to how beautiful Lois (Erica Durance) is........certainly not her writting skills....

That's how I have interpreted that line too...

CK&CK

10-14-2006, 01:34 AM

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
That's how I have interpreted that line too...

The cool thing is that I think Lois noticed it to......that's why she wasn't mad in any way, shape, or form. Ahhhhh.....I LOVE THE COUSINS!

P.S. And I think deep down Lois trusts Chloe's judgement. She knew Chloe was right about the DP's view on such stories.....after all, Chloe got first hand knowledge of this DP standard in "Thirst". Somehow, on a sub-concious level, I think they both knew the Inquistor would jump at it.

khufu

10-14-2006, 01:37 AM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
I don't think Chloe was badmouthing Lois. Clark and Chloe are both two people who love Lois... but she's... not an easy going person... Lois is... a handfull... I think it was supposed to be loving. Clark did the worst bad mouthing of the two of them... and he's the one who introduced the topic. So if you guys or going to be mad at anyone... it should be Clark...

I thought they were just venting... b/c Lois can be tough to deal with at times. She's prickly... :) I don't think it was malicious. They both love Lois. (Sigh.)WORD! I really don't understand why Chloe is taking all this heat for that dialogue when it was Clark who made the comment about Lois never closing her mouth. NOBODY has jumped on Clark about that statement, but Chloe gets ripped to shreds because she jokingly said she was now "further from sanity"? Come on, like Lois or not, everyone knows what her personality is like. In fact, even her strongest fans will even tell that her crazy personality is WHY they like her. And for a year Clark expressed how frustrating it was to live in the same house with Lois, so why is Chloe all of a sudden made out to be a pariah went she says that living with Lois isn't easy? We know she loves her. I mean, I couldn't stand to live with my brother, and I have no problem saying that out loud. But I definitely love him. So does that make me a bad person??? Honestly, I think a lot of people are looking for a reason to hate on Chloe.

I'm sure if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow that will somehow be Chloe's fault too.

CK&CK

10-14-2006, 01:40 AM

Originally posted by khufu
WORD! I really don't understand why Chloe is taking all this heat for that dialogue when it was Clark who made the comment about Lois never closing her mouth. NOBODY has jumped on Clark about that statement, but Chloe gets ripped to shreds because she jokingly said she was now "further from sanity"? Come on, like Lois or not, everyone knows what her personality is like. In fact, even her strongest fans will even tell that her crazy personality is WHY they like her. And for a year Clark expressed how frustrating it was to live in the same house with Lois, so why is Chloe all of a sudden made out to be a pariah went she says that living with Lois isn't easy? We know she loves her. I mean, I couldn't stand to live with my brother, and I have no problem saying that out loud. But I definitely love him. So does that make me a bad person??? Honestly, I think a lot of people are looking for a reason to hate on Chloe.

I'm sure if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow that will somehow be Chloe's fault too.

Exactly!.......actually I prefer Correct-A-Mundo! WORD is getting kind of tiresome.

Farm_Girl

10-14-2006, 02:36 AM

Originally posted by khufu I'm sure if the sun doesn't rise tomorrow that will somehow be Chloe's fault too. [/B]

Interesting coming from Chloe fan, but isn't it is the other way round. Poor Lois gets bashed for everything and if Chloe makes a rough remark, ignore it, it was just nothing.

Anyway, I still think that I don't like the Chlo-Lo dynamics being destroyed but I do agree with some of you that may be Chloe's remark on jealousy was not outrightly on Lois stepping in her territory, may be it was on Lois's beauty or her relationship with the Kents. You guys have a point here, I have to admit.

InLove_with_Chloe

10-14-2006, 04:07 AM

Originally posted by Farm_Girl
Interesting coming from Chloe fan, but isn't it is the other way round. Poor Lois gets bashed for everything and if Chloe makes a rough remark, ignore it, it was just nothing.

Anyway, I still think that I don't like the Chlo-Lo dynamics being destroyed but I do agree with some of you that may be Chloe's remark on jealousy was not outrightly on Lois stepping in her territory, may be it was on Lois's beauty or her relationship with the Kents. You guys have a point here, I have to admit.

I guess it was just clumsy writing. They probably wanted to avoid Chloe sounding patronizing, or condescending towards Lois, about the writing. So, she had to reveal that she sometimes is jealeous of Lois (just not when it comes to writing). It's a give and take, and therefore a healthy relationship (of which we have so few on SV).
Anyway, the writers would be stupid to destroy one of the last good things they have going, i.e. the Chloe/Lois relationship...

Polomontana

10-14-2006, 04:41 AM

This is just Lois fans and Lana fans trying to nitpick because Chloe is the most popular girl on the show. It's not Chloe's fault that Lois and Lana are one-dimensional characters. All Lois does is get half naked and mess with playboys and Lana cries all the time!!

Now people need to check their Smallville history. Chloe tried to stop Lana from even getting involved with Lex. Remember when Chloe caught Lex and Lana when they were living together? Chloe told Clark and tried to help Lana and Lana almost bit her head off. Lana told Chloe not to meddle in her life and that's why Chloe was surprised that Lana even came to her for advice. Chloe basically told Lana to make a decision because I'm not gonna play Dr. Phil with you. Lana just wanted someone to feel sorry for her and Chloe wasn't having it.

Again, this is Lois and Lana fans venting because they support some weak characters. My suggestion is to write the producers of the show and ask them to spend less time on Lois cleavage and more time on her character!!

Damali

10-14-2006, 06:30 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
This is just Lois fans and Lana fans trying to nitpick because Chloe is the most popular girl on the show. It's not Chloe's fault that Lois and Lana are one-dimensional characters. All Lois does is get half naked and mess with playboys and Lana cries all the time!!

Now people need to check their Smallville history. Chloe tried to stop Lana from even getting involved with Lex. Remember when Chloe caught Lex and Lana when they were living together? Chloe told Clark and tried to help Lana and Lana almost bit her head off. Lana told Chloe not to meddle in her life and that's why Chloe was surprised that Lana even came to her for advice. Chloe basically told Lana to make a decision because I'm not gonna play Dr. Phil with you. Lana just wanted someone to feel sorry for her and Chloe wasn't having it.

Again, this is Lois and Lana fans venting because they support some weak characters. My suggestion is to write the producers of the show and ask them to spend less time on Lois cleavage and more time on her character!!

I’ll be honest and state that Chloe is my least favorite character on the show for various reasons. However, I think you’re over simplifying the actual problem and there's no need to say people support weak characters just because Chloe gets criticized. The original poster brought up a good point, did Chloe give Lana bad advice, in a word, yes. Chloe basically says, Lex is bad, but you have to found your own bliss Lana. Chloe knows a lot more then she was saying. She could have trashed Lex, but she doesn’t. It’s strange that no character on the show is vehemently against this relationship.

As for nitpicking Chloe, there's a lot to pick at, just because people like to over analyze Lois and Lana actions doesn't make Chloe immune. She does things that deserve criticism, just like any other character.

myankskent

10-14-2006, 08:28 AM

Originally posted by Polomontana
This is just Lois fans and Lana fans trying to nitpick because Chloe is the most popular girl on the show.

If you're going to go there, then I will say that this is Chloe fans thinking that she can never do anything wrong on this show.

Originally posted by Damali

As for nitpicking Chloe, there's a lot to pick at, just because people like to over analyze Lois and Lana actions doesn't make Chloe immune. She does things that deserve criticism, just like any other character.

Exactly. Lana and Lois get bashed for everything and as soon as someone brings up something remotely negative about Chloe, it's like the world has ended with Chloe fans.

HalJordan4184

10-14-2006, 08:31 AM

I'm not gonna say im a chloe defender here, because a lot of her actions are over the top, and crazy skillful for someone who's not even really a reporter at the planet. However, she's the most consistantly written character on the show. She's not a different person everyweek, a la Lana, nor completely useless one epi, and a trusted political advisor to the new senator the next, a la Lois. She's just been Chloe.

All around, I'd say none of the girls on this show are particularly well done.

As for her not giving Lana good advice, well, that's just not true. Lana had already made her mind up. She was just looking for someone to justify her decision to her. All Chloe told her, was that you make your own decisions, I'm not gonna justify it for you. You either do it, or you don't, and you can't always seek everyone else's approval.

That, and Chloe has no proof Lex is evil. Neither does Clark. They've both told Lana before Lex isn't what he seems, but Lana seems to want a solid, evidence backed case for murder against him, before she'll believe anyone. Lana is not that bright, and the last episode just further reinforced that. She's expressed severe distrust in Lex in the past, and she still jumped in bed with him. Chloe shouldn't have to point out something, Lana previously has known.

Nightingale20

10-14-2006, 08:55 AM

I like Chloe and all but I didn't like the advice. The growing fins and diving in particular. Really, dive in with Lex? Heh. Felt like she was thinking more about her and Jimmy. I didn't expect her to hold her hand or shove the advice down Lana's throat. Just a little caution on Lex's character. And if Lana doesn't listen then it is Lana's fault.

Originally posted by CK&CK
And I think Chloe's jealousy to Lois in Sneeze was a refrence to how beautiful Lois (Erica Durance) is........certainly not her writting skills....

Don't like what they are doing to the cousins this season so far. Much different than season 4 & 5 dynamic. I was wondering about that line too but don't see why she would be jealous. They are both attractive and I don't see the cousins playing mirror, mirror on the wall. They seem beyond that to me to be caught up on something superficial like looks.

Ireallylikethisshow

10-14-2006, 09:11 AM

Originally posted by ajfinn
MOD NOTE:

I've merged two threads on the same topic together.

When Lana went to Chloe for advice about a more serious relationship with Lex, who Chloe knows ALL about ...... how evil he is, how dishonest he is, what a danger he is to Clark and to Lana as well . . . Chloe practically threw Lana right into Lex's arms, when a good friend knowing these things about someone else would've at least encouraged Lana to get to know Lex a lot better before she made such a big decision.

Chloe's reaction here was very uncharacteristic of her! I think Clark would be very upset, not just jealous, that Chloe wasn't a better friend to Lana. Say what you want about Lana, but she went to Chloe looking for someone else to say that she had good reason to take it slow. What she got was the opposite.

I don't think Chloe was pushing Lana to date Lex. I think she was just telling her what her honest opinion was. Lana is old enough to decide what she wants to do, and last year Chloe tried to tell her who to date and it didn't work. I think Chloe hoped that Lana wouldn't continue to date Lex, but decided that she couldn't force Lana to do anything.

Lana, may or may not, have wanted to stay with Lex.

RobynAdele0406

10-14-2006, 09:14 AM

:rotfl: This thread is hilarious.

Would everyone have prefered it if Chloe had told Lana to get lost at the bottom of the stairs? Which, if I were Chloe, I would have done. Anyone remember Lana biting Chloe's head off when Chloe tried to warn Lana about Lex? And I don't recall a friendly Chloe/Lana scene in atleast 7-8 episodes (perhaps longer)...

But yes, let's blame Chloe for Lana's mistakes, since Lana's obviously not old enough to make her own decisions, like who she sleeps with.

I don't recall hearing Lana ask "should I sleep with Lex?" and Chloe saying "yeah Lana, grow some fins and go get laid." Both girls were speaking in general, unless there was some deep, hidden meaning. Like "the happy people" symbolize "people who have sex" and Lana should go join them.

IMHO, Chloe's advice was good advice. She told Lana that Lex wouldn't even be ON her list, but Lex is OBVIOUSLY on Lana's list if she's kissed him numerous times and is living with him. Then she proceeded to tell Lana that sometimes, it's just best to live life and jump in, have some fun. Isn't that good advice? "Life's too short to always be worrying and scared."

a silent liaison

10-14-2006, 09:32 AM

Chloe did not tell Lana to run off to have sex with Lex. Rather, she simply told Lana that she needs to live life for what she deems to be right, and not what others deem to be right. I think that Lana then made her o-w-n decision.

SnarkMasterJ

10-14-2006, 11:36 AM

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
:rotfl: This thread is hilarious.

Would everyone have prefered it if Chloe had told Lana to get lost at the bottom of the stairs? Which, if I were Chloe, I would have done. Anyone remember Lana biting Chloe's head off when Chloe tried to warn Lana about Lex? And I don't recall a friendly Chloe/Lana scene in atleast 7-8 episodes (perhaps longer)...

But yes, let's blame Chloe for Lana's mistakes, since Lana's obviously not old enough to make her own decisions, like who she sleeps with.

I don't recall hearing Lana ask "should I sleep with Lex?" and Chloe saying "yeah Lana, grow some fins and go get laid." Both girls were speaking in general, unless there was some deep, hidden meaning. Like "the happy people" symbolize "people who have sex" and Lana should go join them.

IMHO, Chloe's advice was good advice. She told Lana that Lex wouldn't even be ON her list, but Lex is OBVIOUSLY on Lana's list if she's kissed him numerous times and is living with him. Then she proceeded to tell Lana that sometimes, it's just best to live life and jump in, have some fun. Isn't that good advice? "Life's too short to always be worrying and scared."

Seriously! That's what I got from the whole ordeal too.

Chloe already knows what comes of telling Lana what she really thinks of Lex -- Lana wouldn't even bother listening, just like she didn't last season. So why would Chloe even waste her time talking about it? She approached the subject objectively, which is the only thing you can do when talking to someone who already has their mind made up anyway.

Lana wasn't looking for confirmation that Lex was a bad guy to get involved with -- she was looking for confirmation that her desire to be with him wasn't invalid. She wanted to know that once she acted on what she was already feeling, that was it. No more avoidance, no more pussy-footing around. The sex thing was unrelated to their conversation, and completely Lana's choice.

myankskent

10-14-2006, 11:48 AM

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
:rotfl: This thread is hilarious.

Would everyone have prefered it if Chloe had told Lana to get lost at the bottom of the stairs? Which, if I were Chloe, I would have done. Anyone remember Lana biting Chloe's head off when Chloe tried to warn Lana about Lex?

No, I don't remember that. What I do remember is Chloe going behind Lana's back and talking to Lex about the situation, causing Lana to get angry at Chloe for not going to her about it in the first place.

But yes, let's blame Chloe for Lana's mistakes, since Lana's obviously not old enough to make her own decisions, like who she sleeps with.

Who's blaming Chloe for Lana's mistakes? We are simply looking at the advice that she gave Lana, who seeked her out for the advice this time, and having an opinion on what she said.

I don't recall hearing Lana ask "should I sleep with Lex?" and Chloe saying "yeah Lana, grow some fins and go get laid." Both girls were speaking in general, unless there was some deep, hidden meaning. Like "the happy people" symbolize "people who have sex" and Lana should go join them.

No, the growing some fins comment from Chloe did not say that Lana should sleep with Lex, but it did imply that Lana should commit to her relationship with Lex to some degree rather than holding back because of her trust issues with herself. IMO, Chloe's advice would be great advice to give to a friend of hers that was dating a guy that was not known to be a criminal. The bottom line is that Chloe and Clark both know much more about who Lex really is compared to Lana, and some of that knowledge should've been passed on to Lana if Chloe was willing to take Lana upstairs to have a heart to heart conversation with her.

Dannyblue1

10-14-2006, 11:58 AM

I didn't hear the part where Lana said, "Should I sleep with Lex?" and Chloe said, "Oh, yeah! Totally!" In fact, sex wasn't even part of the discussion. There's certainly no indication that's what Chloe thought they were talking about.

Lana made some general comments about how she wasn't sure she could trust Lex, but maybe that was her own trust issues and fears at work, and what should she do, and so on and so forth.

Chloe came back with, if Lana didn't trust Lex now, there's a good chance she won't later. And, while Chloe doesn't and wouldn't trust Lex, that's really something for Lana to decide for herself. Whatever Lana does as far as Lex is concerned, she shouldn't let fears or bad past experiences keep her from living life to the full.

How anyone translated that to, "Now, go have sex with Lex," is beyond me.

ajfinn

10-14-2006, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
The bottom line is that Chloe and Clark both know much more about who Lex really is compared to Lana, and some of that knowledge should've been passed on to Lana if Chloe was willing to take Lana upstairs to have a heart to heart conversation with her.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

If a friend comes to you and asks for advice for even the hundredth time, about something dangerous they are doing, do you say, "Okay, grow some fins and keep it up!" Because you're tired of repeating yourself? A good friend would keep up the fight, hoping to get through to them.

My best friend just died of an eating disorder. For five years of talking about it over and over again, I never once said, "Well, you're not gonna listen to me anyway, so go ahead and destroy yourself." You keep fighting for someone when you love them, even if they keep making the same mistake over and over again.

This conversation between Chloe and Lana really had nothing to do with sex, but with Lana's decision to take the last big plunge into a life of unhappiness, and Chloe knew that! As I said, this was very UNCHARACTERISTIC, of Chloe. I think she was written wrong in this scene.

sari_chem

10-14-2006, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by ajfinn
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

If a friend comes to you and asks for advice for even the hundredth time, about something dangerous they are doing, do you say, "Okay, we'll grow some fins and keep it up!" Because you're tired of repeating yourself? A good friend would keep up the fight, hoping to get through to them.

My best friend just died of an eating disorder. For five years of talking about it over and over again, I never once said, "Well, you're not gonna listen to me anyway, so go ahead and destroy yourself." You keep fighting for someone when you love them, even if they keep making the same mistake over and over again.

This conversation between Chloe and Lana really had nothing to do with sex, but with Lana's decision to take the last big plunge into a life of unhappiness, and Chloe knew that! As I said, this was very UNCHARACTERISTIC, of Chloe. I think she was written wrong in this scene.

agreed

myankskent

10-14-2006, 12:13 PM

Originally posted by ajfinn
EXACTLY!!!!!!!!!!

If a friend comes to you and asks for advice for even the hundredth time, about something dangerous they are doing, do you say, "Okay, we'll grow some fins and keep it up!" Because you're tired of repeating yourself? A good friend would keep up the fight, hoping to get through to them.

My best friend just died of an eating disorder. For five years of talking about it over and over again, I never once said, "Well, you're not gonna listen to me anyway, so go ahead and destroy yourself." You keep fighting for someone when you love them, even if they keep making the same mistake over and over again.

Oh man, that is an excellent point that you just made and I'm sorry to hear about your friend. You were a good friend to continue to give advice.

buddy232

10-14-2006, 12:36 PM

Chloe was NO friend! She basically pushed Lana into Lex's arms. Chloe should have told her to take it slow and also told her some of the stuff about Lex.

I have always like Chloe but this was really low!

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 12:40 PM

Plain and simple: Chloe is b!tch and she doesnt care about Lana.

And since when did she become such a big exert on relationships? Oh wait, 5 years of drowning with her precious feelings about Clark make her the best swimmer in the waters of romance. Gimme a break :D

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 12:48 PM

I appreciate the gravity of the illustrations offered but I don't think that dating advice equates with life or death advice.

Chloe threatened Lex when she first saw Lexana starting to happen in Season 5 and Lana BIT HER HEAD OFF. Then I think she took her own advice to Clark, "you can't control who your girlfriend dates. LANA chose to disregard Chloe's statement that Lex WOULD NOT EVEN BE ON HER LIST!!! So... Chloe a bad friend? Nope. Lana a bad friend... Well lets see, she cut off everyone she's been close to and closed herself off with Lex. Yes I think I'd say that Lana is the bad friend... or at least estranged friend in this situation. I wonder why she avoided Chloe and Clark. Could it be that the strongly disapprove of her relationship with Lex?

And about Chloe and Lois! Chlo-Lo is still going strong IMO. And unfortunately so is Chloe/Chlois vs. Lois. (sigh) The idea that Chlo/Lo is dead stems more from fandom than from the writing...IMO.

And I will say that Allison Mack did two strange line readings in Wither. She distractedly and seriously delivered her lines about not looking a gift horse in the mouth. Whereas she should have laughed more or made it seem more teasing. So that helps with the interpretation of her comments being malicious.

Also the "this girl can't lose you..." whatever she said after she rescued Clark from the vines. She just threw that away. It could have been a romantic moment... but she just... hmm...

Dannyblue1

10-14-2006, 12:56 PM

Originally posted by buddy232
Chloe was NO friend! She basically pushed Lana into Lex's arms.

Yes, because Lana was nowhere near being romantically involved with Lex before she talked to Chloe.

Oh, wait...

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 12:57 PM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
Chloe a bad friend? Nope. Lana a bad friend... Well lets see, she cut off everyone she's been close to and closed herself off with Lex. Yes I think I'd say that Lana is the bad friend... or at least estranged friend in this situation.

The story always has two sides. Let me ask you, how would you feel to see your best friend and your boyfriend constantly hiding something from you and constantly working behind your back?

As stupid this may sound to Lana haters (it doesnt mean its you), she has reasons to distance herself from Clark and Chloe, no matter how good their intentions are.

Dannyblue1

10-14-2006, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
she has reasons to distance herself from Clark and Chloe, no matter how good their intentions are.

And, considering that, in the past, Lana has responded to warnings about Lex by distancing herself from her friends, I think Chloe gave the only advice Lana would hear without shutting down or storming off. Just look at Lana's reaction when Chloe merely mentioned that Lex wouldn't be on her list. Can you imagine if Chloe had really tried to talk to Lana about Lex's flaws?

myankskent

10-14-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
And, considering that, in the past, Lana has responded to warnings about Lex by distancing herself from her friends, I think Chloe gave the only advice Lana would hear without shutting down or storming off. Just look at Lana's reaction when Chloe merely mentioned that Lex wouldn't be on her list. Can you imagine if Chloe had really tried to talk to Lana about Lex's flaws?

Can you look at how the scene went? Lana went to Chloe for advice, which makes the whole scenario and setting completely different than ones in the past, particularly the one in Fragile between Lana and Chloe. Lana wanted advice, in this scenario, which means that if Chloe was willing to talk to her and bring her upstairs to have this little talk, Chloe should not have held back. Saying that Chloe didn't want to talk about Lex's flaws because she was worried that Lana was going to storm off makes no sense at all. If Lana was willing to open up and discuss her feelings and take into consideration things that Chloe had to say, then Chloe should've done the same.

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 01:19 PM

^Chloe did not hold back! She told Lana point blank that Lex would not be on her list. Something that Lana knows FULL WELL. Chloe's advice amounted to... don't be afraid of life Lana. If Lana interprets that to mean ok I'll take the next step with Lex... well... I don't see how that makes Chloe a bad friend. I hate to do this but was Lois bad when she listened to Lana's bad boy blues?

This is just rediculous. I am not a fan of the "can't beat 'em, join em" mantra. I don't think Chloe did anything wrong in this situation. She gave her opinion and then some objective advice addressing the heart of Lana's issues. Why Lana's revelation about blaming everyone else for her problems can cover Lex and not Clark is a mystery to me. But I'm sure it has something to do with being sore and broken hearted and still wanting to hurt Clark. I didn't buy it when Chloe first suggested it back in Season 5 but... now I do think that Lana is still punishing Clark for breaking her heart. Not in regards to Lex... but just in regards to Lana and Clark's interactions.

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
The story always has two sides. Let me ask you, how would you feel to see your best friend and your boyfriend constantly hiding something from you and constantly working behind your back?

As stupid this may sound to Lana haters (it doesnt mean its you), she has reasons to distance herself from Clark and Chloe, no matter how good their intentions are.

I would weigh it against what they actually DO. Perhaps they don't tell me the truth all the time... or they keep secrets. I may not like it... and its up to me to confront them about it or bail. But to remain silent while building up resentment...

Also Chloe has given me a home to live in. I'm sure in all the time Lana was living with Chloe she's gotten to know that Chloe has a good heart. And Clark is constantly coming through for me at the critical point. So perhaps he's not boyfriend material but I have got to know that he's a good person.

And then I still need to look myself in the mirror. As lana herself (finally) owns up to... her biggest enemy is herself. She has trust issues that have nothing to do with Clark. And identity issues too. Void was sort of Lana's reckoning... I like her character development. She's growing up.

And I'm not a Lana hater (anymore). But she's a big girl and she can't lay everything at the feet of Chloe. LOL! Chloe's been a great friend. It's Lana who wouldn't open up to Chloe in Void and thereafter... And I don't have a problem with that. I just wish Lana would be more assertive about it and confront Chloe... instead of building up resentment while skulking.

HalJordan4184

10-14-2006, 01:26 PM

Lana went to Chloe for advice,yes, and Chloe gave it to her. YOu can't keep asking other people how you should live your life. I wouldn't sit there and tell her not to trust Lex. Everyone has already told her not to. She didn't listen the first hundred times, 101 isn't gonna make a difference. I mean, she catches the guy spying on her, catches him doing bad stuff, and even in previous seasons admits a huge distrust of him, and waryness.

What Lana wanted was Chloe to say, go sleep with him, and enjoy it. Instead, she got, make up your mind. Chloe gave Lana a speech about trust, Lana wanted a speech about she's doing the right thing. Chloe gave her the advice she needed, Lana wanted permission to do the wrong thing.

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 01:29 PM

^I agree. :)

And hopefully when it all goes wrong... she won't regress to her old Lana ways and blame it all on Chloe. LOL!

RobynAdele0406

10-14-2006, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
Plain and simple: Chloe is b!tch and she doesnt care about Lana.

And since when did she become such a big exert on relationships? Oh wait, 5 years of drowning with her precious feelings about Clark make her the best swimmer in the waters of romance. Gimme a break :D

Did anyone ever say Chloe was a "big expert on relationships"? No. I don't think ANY of these characters (with the exception of Martha) are in the position right now to give sound love advice. Oh and I have a question for you...

Did Chloe look like she had malicious intentions in that scene? I mean, you say she's a b!tch and doesn't care about Lana, but don't you think that if she truly didn't care about Lana, she would have told her to 'get lost' at the bottom of the stairs?

Consider that Lana has kissed Lex numerous times already, is living with him, and is spending enough time with him to be photographed together and dubbed "the next Lex girl." It's not exactly like Lana is coming to Chloe BEFORE she's already somewhat involved with Lex. AND it's not like Lana doesn't already know that Lex does shady things. But she's with him anyways. Don't blame Chloe for that. ;)

Who's blaming Chloe for Lana's mistakes? We are simply looking at the advice that she gave Lana, who seeked her out for the advice this time, and having an opinion on what she said.

My bad, I keep getting this thread mixed up with the other Lexana threads. Just seems to me that people want to blame Chloe for not doing this, not doing that, not spoonfeeding Lana, not drawing crystal clear pictures of Lex Luthor for her.

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 01:47 PM

Actually HalJordan, every person should ask for advise. I know I do, I ask everybody around me about my actions. Sometimes 3rd POV can enlighten you.

Lana went for advice about her trust issues. Since the topic was perfect, Chloe could've said something about Lex's evil deeds. And if we blame her for trusting Lex in the first 5 seasons, then we should blame also Clark, because he gave him not 100, but 10000 chances before he realized the truth. So in that regard, I dont fault Lana.

It was clear that Lana trusts Chloe 100% otherwise she wouldn't have asked for her advice. That means Lana values Chloe's oppinions and considers her as a good friend. From my point of view, Chloe abused Lana's trust because she wasnt straight with her.

I dont want anybody to get me wrong, I dont fault Chloe for Lana's actions because that would be equivalent to blaming Lionel for Lex's, but I do hold her responsible to some extent for not being a good friend. If I was in Chloe's position I would've done the right thing, even if it means risking the friendship. But that's just me.

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
Did Chloe look like she had malicious intentions in that scene? I mean, you say she's a b!tch and doesn't care about Lana, but don't you think that if she truly didn't care about Lana, she would have told her to 'get lost' at the bottom of the stairs?

No she wasn't being evil by any means. But like I said, it was the perfect moment to tell her what she knows about Lex. Perhaps not everything, but she could've scratched the bottom.

You have on hand, Chloe who hates Lex when she's with Clark, and on the other hand, Chloe who seems to be indifferent about Lex in front of Lana. Basically she treats her best friends differently. That's not an admirable trait in my books.

lee_the_flee

10-14-2006, 01:52 PM

chloe didn't tell lana to sleep with lex, she just told her that she shouldn't always sit idly but instead make decisions and act on them. Which is good advice if you ask me.

Lana already knows Lex is a bit of a slimeball, so Chloe doesn't really have that much over Lana. And people have warned her time and time again about Lex, but she still wants to be with him. I think at a certain point you have to let someone live their own life and realize their own mistakes.

myankskent

10-14-2006, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by lee_the_flee

Lana already knows Lex is a bit of a slimeball, so Chloe doesn't really have that much over Lana. And people have warned her time and time again about Lex, but she still wants to be with him. I think at a certain point you have to let someone live their own life and realize their own mistakes.

With that kind of logic, Chloe should tell Clark to go to hell and not give him advice on the things that he does. She should just let him make his own mistakes and not help him. Somehow, Chloe has no problem telling Clark specifically how she feels but with Lana, completely different. There's something seriously wrong with that.

Dannyblue1

10-14-2006, 02:27 PM

I was going to respond to some posts above, but realized it was pointless. Some are going to blame Chloe for something, even if they're blaming her for not getting a psychology degree so that she could give Lana the most professionally sound advice possible.

Basically, it comes down to this. Chloe gave Lana some advice. And let's even say Chloe gave Lana bad advice. (Although that's up to your interpretation.)

Was Chloe being malicious and trying to hurt Lana by purposefully giving her bad advice? No.

Have most people in RL given others advice that might not have been the most sound? Definately.

Does meaning well but giving someone bad advice make you a bad person, or a b****? Definately not.

sari_chem

10-14-2006, 02:27 PM

Chloe is not a bad friend, nor is she a b!tch.

but I didn't agree with her advice. The talk that she and Lana had was essentially about trust. Chloe should have told Lana point blank why she shouldn't trust Lex. Chloe has actual facts about Lex. So it wouldn't even be "Lana, I feel that he is a bad guy." It would be "Lana, I KNOW he is a bad guy."

I understand that if Chloe tells the truth then Lana might get upset with her. But personally, I would prefer to tell the truth to a friend about a dangerous guy and risk losing the friendship, than telling her to "dive in" and risk literally losing the person herself. We've seen what a Luthor can do to the women in their lives. Look at what happened to lillian Luthor.

HalJordan4184

10-14-2006, 02:46 PM

BUT CHLOE AND CLARK DON'T HAVE PROOF! Chloe knows what Lex has done, but proving that is a different story. Like before, everyone knew Lionel was a bad guy, but no one could prove it. Heck, LANA EVEN STATED IN PREVIOUS EPISODES SHE DOESN'T TRUST LEX! She came to Chloe with a problem about how Lana now doesn't trust herself. The entire conversation wasn't even about Lana trusting Lex, it was about Lana trusting her own judgement, and feelings. Chloe told her to trust those. The fact Chloe and Clark have both said you can't trust Lex he's evil should have been enough. Friendship is a two way street. Even I don't sit there, and try to tell my friends something over and over, when any time i've brought it up they shut me down, and tell me i don't know the truth. That's exactly the way Lana has treated the whole thing thus far. Why should Chloe even believe Lana would believe her at all now, when nothing has changed since last time. Chloe still doesn't have proof, she only has the same old argument. So she told Lana, we have to basically make our own beds and sleep in them. Lana chose Lex, it's not up to Chloe to talk her out of that choice. Being a real friend, means supporting a friend you know screwed up, even when you can tell them i told you so. Not making sure nothing ever goes wrong in your friends life. Chloe is not at fault for Lana's mistakes, and she's not at fault for giving her bad advice. She just told her the truth, that it's up to her, and she has to decide if this is what she wants to do.

lee_the_flee

10-14-2006, 02:49 PM

you tell em Hal!

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 02:57 PM

I stress for the 3rd time: I dont fault Chloe for Lana's mistakes, I fault her for not being open with her. When someone comes to you for advice, you tell them the truth, because that's what friends are for. She could've said: Lana be careful, or think twice or I dont know, any warning would've been suffice, but instead she started talking like a relationship expert, which she isn't.

And again, Chloe wasn't evil at all, she just choose to hide what she knows from her best frind, and that's one part of the truth. The other part is open for different interpretations.

umm

10-14-2006, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by ajfinn
MOD NOTE:

I've merged two threads on the same topic together.

When Lana went to Chloe for advice about a more serious relationship with Lex, who Chloe knows ALL about ...... how evil he is, how dishonest he is, what a danger he is to Clark and to Lana as well . . . Chloe practically threw Lana right into Lex's arms, when a good friend knowing these things about someone else would've at least encouraged Lana to get to know Lex a lot better before she made such a big decision.

Chloe's reaction here was very uncharacteristic of her! I think Clark would be very upset, not just jealous, that Chloe wasn't a better friend to Lana. Say what you want about Lana, but she went to Chloe looking for someone else to say that she had good reason to take it slow. What she got was the opposite.

Oh give me a break! Remember season 5, remember how Chloe tried to protect Lana, who consequently told her to stay out and mind her own stuff, and not nicelly at all may I add, so what's Chloe supposed to do?
And in the end, it's souly Lana's decision whether she takes that step with Lex or not, no one, not even Chloe, can make that decision for her! So, Chloe's advice was spot on as far as I am concerned!

sari_chem

10-14-2006, 03:00 PM

Chloe should just have told Lana the plain truth.

If Lana doesn't want to listen, then that's Lana's problem.

azi

10-14-2006, 03:03 PM

.
Originally posted by myankskent
With that kind of logic, Chloe should tell Clark to go to hell and not give him advice on the things that he does. She should just let him make his own mistakes and not help him. Somehow, Chloe has no problem telling Clark specifically how she feels but with Lana, completely different. There's something seriously wrong with that. but Clark seems to respond and listen to her advice ( even sometimes he makes different choices)
Lana doesn't.
The whole thing has more to do with bad writing than anything else. She gave her unclear advice so in the future we can see Lana as a victim again. Chloe didn’t tell her that she shouldn’t have sex with Lex. It’s not Lana’s fault. Chloe is responsible!!! It makes me annoyed again (if that will be true). I actually like Lana in this episode. I absolutely don’t approve her decision and quite frankly am surprised at the super speed of the whole relationship but at the same time we know that this time she has enough information on her own : the videotape, his 2 divorces, the newspaper article claiming that she is Lex's next conquest of many which means she knows that he is promiscuous and can't be trusted and even she doesn’t know all Lex’s shady “doings” she knows enough and her “Lex, I know you. You desire what you can't have. So, what happens when you get it? ”
Lana seems to be making a conscious decision this time ( the first time for a long time) I like that. Even it’s the wrong one. My first impression was also (before reading this thread) that this time she is prepared to pay for it. She wasn’t forced to do it ( she started it ) but I'm sure that in the process she’ll finally grow some backbone because it will be no one else to blame but herself. I know it sounds cruel but I can’t see any other way for redeeming her character in the future.
I want to like Lana again.Blaming Chloe won’t help “Lana’s case”. She has done enough, she did warn her before she even confronted Lex and got insulted by both of them

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 03:09 PM

What does it mean that Lex would not even be on Chloe's list? Isn't that saying she doesn't trust him?????

RobynAdele0406

10-14-2006, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
You have on hand, Chloe who hates Lex when she's with Clark, and on the other hand, Chloe who seems to be indifferent about Lex in front of Lana. Basically she treats her best friends differently. That's not an admirable trait in my books.

Lana and Chloe are best friends? :\ Could've truly fooled me.

We have Chloe spending lots of time with Clark; every single episode, there is atleast one Chlark scene, but usually more. Chloe knows Clark's secret - Clark knows Chloe's secret. They help each other all the time. They are truly best friends.

The last time Chloe had a scene with Lana, Lana was jumping on Chloe for being concerned about her and taking it up with Lex. Which, btw, Chloe has a right to do. She may not have went about it the right way, but she was worried for her friend, that much was clear. But Lana jumps on her case and tells her to stay out of it. That's the LAST time they were together on screen. That does NOT shout "BFF" to me.

If the last time I talked to Lana, she was b!tching at me, I'd be way more careful of what I said to her next time around. ;)

You can't even compare how she treats Clark and how she treats Lana. Because THEY treat her two totally different ways as well.

umm

10-14-2006, 03:22 PM

Originally posted by azi
. but Clark seems to respond and listen to her advice ( even sometimes he makes different choices)
Lana doesn't.
The whole thing has more to do with “crippling” writing than anything else. She gave her unclear advice so in the future we can see Lana as a victim again. Chloe didn’t tell her that she shouldn’t have sex with Lex. It’s not Lana’s fault. Chloe is responsible!!! It makes me annoyed again (if that will be true). I actually like Lana in this episode. I absolutely don’t approve her decision and quite frankly am surprised at the super speed of the whole relationship but at the same time we know that this time she has enough information on her own : the videotape, his 2 divorces, the newspaper article claiming that she is Lex's next conquest of many which means she knows that he is promiscuous and can't be trusted and even she doesn’t know all Lex’s shady “doings” she knows enough and her “Lex, I know you. You desire what you can't have. So, what happens when you get it? ”
Lana seems to be making a conscious decision this time ( the first time for a long time) I like that. Even it’s the wrong one. My first impression was also (before reading this thread) that this time she is prepared to pay for it. She wasn’t forced to do it ( she started it ) but I'm sure that in the process she’ll finally grow some backbone because it will be no one else to blame but herself. I know it sounds cruel but I can’t see any other way for redeeming her character in the future.
I want to like her again.

There is no doubt about it, Lana is with Lex because she wants to, not because she is being forced to!
And despite him being shady, a fact which she now is painfully aware of, despite her nagging doubts and Lex' shipwreck of a trackrecord concerning relationships, she still made the choice to take that step with Lex and push the relationship further!
And, while that may be, and in fact is, completly the wrong decission to make, it's still Lana's perogative to do so, and she will just have to live with the consequences and hopefully learn from them! It's what being and adult means!
Learning from your mistakes, granted Lana may be a llittle slow on the uptake where that particular aspect of adulthood is concerned, her trackrecord in relationships certainly proves it; come to think about it, in that regard she and Lex are a match made in heaven, but we'll just have to hope for the best, in this case the best meaning she won't come out of that relationships with to many wounds!

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 03:26 PM

What does it mean that Lex would not even be on Chloe's list? Isn't that saying she doesn't trust him?????

Exactly, and then she continues: you cant watch other people splashing around, eventually you'll have to dive in, or something like that.

That's the reason why I''m torn about what she was trying to say in the first place. If you ask me, this is an advice with double meaning and illogical to some extent. That's why I understand what you're trying to say ginnyfan (and those who agree with you) but real friends dont play the safe card. They risk for their friends, and Chloe didnt do that.

Chloe's probably one of the rare characters who actually has a backbone, but she's not always 100% right, just like she wasn't right about Lois's article, just like she jumped the gun about Lex and Lana back in S5.

It's not Chloe's responsibility to tell Lana, I realize that, but considering that they're friends she should've said something. Instead she went for the abstract, and its quite understandable why we have devided oppinions about this question.

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
The last time Chloe had a scene with Lana, Lana was jumping on Chloe for being concerned about her and taking it up with Lex. Which, btw, Chloe has a right to do. She may not have went about it the right way, but she was worried for her friend, that much was clear. But Lana jumps on her case and tells her to stay out of it. That's the LAST time they were together on screen. That does NOT shout "BFF" to me.

I'm not gonna discuss this any further but since you're brining it in, here's my point of view. Neither of them were right, Lana and Lex were suspicious but at the time there was nothing going on between them, Chloe jumped to conclusions and accused Lana of something that wasnt true, at least not from Lana's perspective.

BTW their last scene was in Vessel, when she overheard Chloe and Clark talking about killing Lex.

Tia

10-14-2006, 03:30 PM

yeah the was not a chloe answer, remember how helpful chloe was in season 3 when lana asked her about having sex with jason? she even told her about her and Jimmy having sex and how she sort of regretted and all...

umm

10-14-2006, 03:39 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
[B]
It's not Chloe's responsibility to tell Lana, I realize that, but considering that they're friends she should've said something. Instead she went for the abstract, and its quite understandable why we have devided oppinions about this question.

You are right, it is not! As for being abstract, she wasn't being abstract, she was actually very clear! Lana has to realise that that there shouldn't be any holding back in a relationship, you are either 100 % in it or not! And to be 100 % in it or dive in as Chloe said it, Lana had to deal with her doubts, figure it out if she was willing to risk getting hurt again and she did, she chose Lex, the relationship and the risk that comes with it! If anything, she should thank Chloe for giving her a push and forcing her to deal with that issue on her own, cos that's was the only right way to do it! Why, because no one could have made the decission for her, but her!
As for Lex not being on Chloe's list of possible dating candidates, well, Chloe doesn't like Lex, in fact she despises him and she made that very clear, and why should she hide it! The fact is, that Lex is beneath Chloe and every, level headed, clear thinking, living and breathing female, and as for Lana, well she'll become clear thinking once she realises what a terrible mistake she made in getting involved with Lex in the first place, and I am not just reffering to the relationship, but the Talon, the investigation of the meteor shower and the alien ship, Isobel, the whole five years in fact!
But that insight, she will gain, while she is banging her head up the wall!

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 04:06 PM

The way this show goes, it seems that Lana will never realize the truth about Lex. But that's just how Lana is portrayed on this show: she's stupid :D

I just re-watched that part and I disagree with you, it is abstract:

Lana: I havent always made the right decisions and when I realize that I've made the wrong ones, I'm too far gone to get myself out.

And after that Chloe delivers her speech about Lex not being on her list, and that eventually she'll have to dive in.

If this was not the perfect opportunity I dont know if there will ever be one. Lana basically told her that her decision making su*ks big time. The first part of Chloe's advice is pretty clear: she doesnt like Lex, but the second part is abstract, because she continued: you cant watch all the happy people splashing around, you'll just have to dive in.

This is abstract because I can gather at least 3-4 meanings, depends from which perspective you observe. From viewers POV, Lana is stupid, from Lana's POV that was an encouraging thought about her relationship with Lex. Perhaps you have different interpretation, and that's the beauty of this argument: Its abstract :D

However, IMHO a real friend is straight forward and aims for the bulls eye. Take it as you will, but IMO Chloe was not fair.

p.he.nix

10-14-2006, 04:19 PM

Agreed. As a friend, Chloe should have given to her straight even if Lana stalked off and got upset. Even if Lana didn't like what she was hearing at least Chloe tried and was looking out for her and Lana would realize that when things came crashing down JMO.

HalJordan4184

10-14-2006, 04:20 PM

Absolute Kingdom, you're confusing two seperate arguments in the same speech. Chloe's spech about diving in, was baout Lana constantly seeking everyone around her's approval, before she does anything. Lana needs to be told she's making the right choice constantly, or she makes no choice. Chloe told her she needs to grow a backbone, and make her own decisions and live with them. AFTER she told Lana Lex wouldn't even be on her list, and after her and Clark had repeatedly told Lana Lex is bad news. Chloe doesn't need to say it again, because Lana last time made it quite apparent she didn't care what Chloe thought, because it was Lana's life. If Lana comes to her for advice later, it doesn't matter, because Lana already knows what Chloe thinks of Lex. Chloe shouldn't have to say it again. Good friend's listen the first time around, and i'd even hesitate to call Lana and Chloe friends. I think Chloe's moved on to aquaintance territory, and lana is her usual clueless self that think's she's done no wrong whatsoever.

RobynAdele0406

10-14-2006, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
I'm not gonna discuss this any further but since you're brining it in, here's my point of view. Neither of them were right, Lana and Lex were suspicious but at the time there was nothing going on between them, Chloe jumped to conclusions and accused Lana of something that wasnt true, at least not from Lana's perspective.

BTW their last scene was in Vessel, when she overheard Chloe and Clark talking about killing Lex.

Nonetheless, Chloe was being a good friend by sticking up for Lana and warning Lex that there would be consequences if Lex ever hurt Lana. That's bold right there, to go up to Lex frickin Luthor and deliver threats for your friend's well being. If I were to get burned by Lex AND Lana like Chloe was back then, I too would be "abstract" in my advice. You don't want to strike a nerve with Lana Lang, she'll jump on your butt! :lol:

But that's your opinion and I respect it. :)

And I don't really count that as a Chlana scene; they didn't interact, Chlark didn't even notice her there, and Lana was there for all of 3 seconds.

myankskent

10-14-2006, 04:30 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Absolute Kingdom, you're confusing two seperate arguments in the same speech. Chloe's spech about diving in, was baout Lana constantly seeking everyone around her's approval, before she does anything. Lana needs to be told she's making the right choice constantly, or she makes no choice. Chloe told her she needs to grow a backbone, and make her own decisions and live with them. AFTER she told Lana Lex wouldn't even be on her list, and after her and Clark had repeatedly told Lana Lex is bad news. Chloe doesn't need to say it again, because Lana last time made it quite apparent she didn't care what Chloe thought, because it was Lana's life. If Lana comes to her for advice later, it doesn't matter, because Lana already knows what Chloe thinks of Lex. Chloe shouldn't have to say it again. Good friend's listen the first time around, and i'd even hesitate to call Lana and Chloe friends. I think Chloe's moved on to aquaintance territory, and lana is her usual clueless self that think's she's done no wrong whatsoever.

First of all, the fact that Chloe said that Lex wouldn't even be on her list means nothing. I could have a friend who is dating someone and I could tell them that the person that they are dating isn't on my list, or to put it a different way, is not my "type", but that doesn't meant that my friend shouldn't date that person. That's what Chloe meant there, that Lex wasn't her type.

And I disagree that Chloe shouldn't have to say anything. The first time around, Chloe didn't even go to Lana to give her advice, she went to Lex. Chloe didn't even plan on going to Lana in the first place, Lana only came to her because Lex told her what Chloe said to him. You had a Lana who was annoyed going into that conversation with Chloe because she went behind her back to Lex. This situation is completely different. Lana was calmer and she wanted to get Chloe's advice. I don't know how many times I have to say this. If you are Chloe there, you cannot decide to talk to Lana there without mentioning what you know about Lex and warning Lana of this. To Chloe, she should've seen Lana going to her about Lex as a golden opportunity to set her straight about him and instead, she told Lana to grow some fins.

HalJordan4184

10-14-2006, 04:33 PM

BECAUSE IT'S NOT CHLOE'S JOB TO SET LANA STRAIGHT. Lana has seen enough, been told enough, and even voiced her own distrust of Lex. What more CAN BE SAID. Chloe can only repeat what Lana knows. What is she exactly supposed to tell her? Everyone seems to want something, but no one is sure what. All Chloe could say, is concerned already voiced to Lana, and stuff Lana has said SHE HERSELF FEELS.

Absolute Kingdom

10-14-2006, 04:39 PM

I'm not confusing two arguments, that's just my interpretation of Chloe's advice.

I dont recall Lana asking for approval for her choises/asctions, perhaps you can refresh my memory. I think this was actually her first time, and perhaps this is the reason why I actually liked her in this episode.

However you're right about the last part, she's clueless as usual, and the reason is that she doesnt know about Lex's evil deeds. Its easy to judge her from viewers point of view, but from her POV she knows only a few things about Lex. Clark made this clear in his conversation with Lex. You gotta remember, Clark and Chloe know almost everything about Lex, but Lana doesnt, at least not the extreme stuff, like in Aquaman and Cyborg, they alway hide that from her, its her destiny not to know. :D

I dont count the little things, because even Clark gave him 1000 chances to come clean. I didn't fault Clark for that, and I'm certainly not gonna fault Lana, just because she's Lana, the hatable character, for not realizing what kind of person he is, because she doesnt know. It all comes down to which standpoint you observe.

myankskent

10-14-2006, 05:10 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
BECAUSE IT'S NOT CHLOE'S JOB TO SET LANA STRAIGHT. Lana has seen enough, been told enough, and even voiced her own distrust of Lex. What more CAN BE SAID. Chloe can only repeat what Lana knows. What is she exactly supposed to tell her? Everyone seems to want something, but no one is sure what. All Chloe could say, is concerned already voiced to Lana, and stuff Lana has said SHE HERSELF FEELS.

Well then you don't know the meaning of the word "friend." If it's not Chloe's job to help out a friend, a friend who already died one time because she was involved with Lex, then by that standpoint, Chloe is either a lousy friend or she wants Lana to stay involved with Lex and get hurt. This is not what I think Chloe is doing, but if you're going to tell me that it's not Chloe's job to say anything, then that is what you are telling me about Chloe.

umm

10-14-2006, 05:19 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Well then you don't know the meaning of the word "friend." If it's not Chloe's job to help out a friend, a friend who already died one time because she was involved with Lex, then by that standpoint, Chloe is either a lousy friend or she wants Lana to stay involved with Lex and get hurt. This is not what I think Chloe is doing, but if you're going to tell me that it's not Chloe's job to say anything, then that is what you are telling me about Chloe.

Chloe has already done more than enough, in fact If I had a friend like Lana who keept making the same mistakes all over again, much like she herself admits of doing, I wouldn't have done even that much, which Chloe has done so far, I would have stood by and let Lana yet another horrible decission, one which would learn her never to make such a mistake in her life ever again!
But hey that's me, I am a big fan of a tuff love between friends! Especially when one of the parties involved in the said friendship, is someone like Lana, who simply refuses to learn from her mistakes! I mean, if you refuse to learn from your past mistakes and take care of yourself, why should anybody else?
As fars as I am concerned, Chloe has done to much!

Deana

10-14-2006, 05:21 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Well then you don't know the meaning of the word "friend." If it's not Chloe's job to help out a friend, a friend who already died one time because she was involved with Lex, then by that standpoint, Chloe is either a lousy friend or she wants Lana to stay involved with Lex and get hurt. This is not what I think Chloe is doing, but if you're going to tell me that it's not Chloe's job to say anything, then that is what you are telling me about Chloe.

I Agree.

I still see it as bad advice. She's protecting one friend over another. To tell Lana how Lex attacked her would put Clark's secret in danger of being learned by Lana. I know she isn't dumb enough to buy the Lana will die pile of rubbish Clark believes. She always picks Clark.

Chloe might be going off the deep end. I started to wonder when she started calling Lionel for help in the season opener.

He could've just as easily dropped kicked her into the crowd.

Lionel: That's for ratting me out. You double crossing double crosser...

myankskent

10-14-2006, 05:32 PM

Originally posted by umm
Chloe has already done more than enough, in fact If I had a friend like Lana who keept making the same mistakes all over again, much like she herself admits of doing, I wouldn't have done even that much, which Chloe has done so far, I would have stood by and let Lana yet another horrible decission, one which would learn her never to make such a mistake in her life ever again!
But hey that's me, I am a big fan of a tuff love between friends! Especially when one of the parties involved in the said friendship, is someone like Lana, who simply refuses to learn from her mistakes! I mean, if you refuse to learn from your past mistakes and take care of yourself, why should anybody else?
As fars as I am concerned, Chloe has done to much!

Well, again, this is not a small mistake that Lana is making here. Getting involved with Lex could cost her her life. Heck, it already happened once. To me, I don't sit back and "let Lana make another horrible decision", especially if I am given a golden opportunity to go into detail on what I know about Lex, without giving up Clark's secret. I wouldn't want that on my conscience if Lana were to die shortly after she came to me for advice, but that's just me.

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
Exactly, and then she continues: you cant watch other people splashing around, eventually you'll have to dive in, or something like that.

That's the reason why I''m torn about what she was trying to say in the first place. If you ask me, this is an advice with double meaning and illogical to some extent. That's why I understand what you're trying to say ginnyfan (and those who agree with you) but real friends dont play the safe card. They risk for their friends, and Chloe didnt do that.

Chloe's probably one of the rare characters who actually has a backbone, but she's not always 100% right, just like she wasn't right about Lois's article, just like she jumped the gun about Lex and Lana back in S5.

It's not Chloe's responsibility to tell Lana, I realize that, but considering that they're friends she should've said something. Instead she went for the abstract, and its quite understandable why we have devided oppinions about this question.

I'm not gonna discuss this any further but since you're brining it in, here's my point of view. Neither of them were right, Lana and Lex were suspicious but at the time there was nothing going on between them, Chloe jumped to conclusions and accused Lana of something that wasnt true, at least not from Lana's perspective.

BTW their last scene was in Vessel, when she overheard Chloe and Clark talking about killing Lex.

The you can't watch people splashing around was referring to Lana's statement... that she holds back from taking risks b/c she's afraid of herself. Chloe is telling her that that is no way to live.

You say "playing it safe" I say "being polite." Chloe threatened Lex to stay away from Lana in Season 5 or he'd have her to deal with. Lex tattled to Lana. Lana bit Chloe's head off then Chloe told Lana straight up that she can understand trying to hurt Clark but she needs to make sure she doesn't get hurt in the process... to which Lana replys I don't intend to be anyone's prey. That tells me Lana has eyes wide open and wants Chloe to back the hell off.

So... Then Lana estranges herself from both Chloe and (more understandably) Clark.

Why didn't Lana just come out and ask "should I sleep with Lex"? She put her question to Chloe in the context of her whole life and a pattern she's been in. That's the context in which Chloe answered.

Their friendship is already strained... Lana felt she had to make up an excuse to even see Chloe. It makes sense to me that it would all play out a little formal. They just aren't at the place anymore where Chloe could say dump Lex Lana he's bad news.

Maybe she should've but I don't think she's a bad friend not to. Blaming Chloe for Lana sleeping with Lex is beyond ludicrous to me! Perhaps if Lana had told Chloe she was thinking of sleeping with Lex... the way she did with the Jason situation, Chloe's answer would have been different. But Lana was very general in her question. I mean Lana's living in the same house with Lex, all over the papers as the next Lexgirl. As far as Chloe knows they are sleeping together already.

Chloe did say something. She said Lex wouldn't even be on her list. And not for a moment did I think she meant that bald guys weren't to her taste! LOL!

I understand that you guys feel that she should have said something more! Something like... DON'T SLEEP WITH LEX LANA!!! ARE YOU NUTS!!! But I don't think she's a bad friend b/c she decided to give objective friendly... polite advise regarding the question she was asked and only touch on the subtext.

Ahh... but it was true in Vessel. Lex and Lana were lying to themselves and dancing around their attraction for each other. Chloe saw it. She made a good call. Lana told her to back off. She got mad a Chloe instead of examining herself.

I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. :)

p.he.nix

10-14-2006, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
I wouldn't want that on my conscience if Lana were to die shortly after she came to me for advice, but that's just me.

I wouldn't want that on my conscience either. Even if she didn’t die, I can imagine how devastated she could end up when the relationship hit rock bottom.

Originally posted by ginnyfan
The you can't watch people splashing around was referring to Lana's statement... that she holds back from taking risks b/c she's afraid of herself. Chloe is telling her that that is no way to live.

Yeah, she shouldn’t hold back from taking risks. But taking risks with Lex? After that experience she probably will end up burnt, that she will have more issues than she started with.

Originally

You say "playing it safe" I say "being polite." Chloe threatened Lex to stay away from Lana in Season 5 or he'd have her to deal with. Lex tattled to Lana. Lana bit Chloe's head off then Chloe told Lana straight up that she can understand trying to hurt Clark but she needs to make sure she doesn't get hurt in the process... to which Lana replys I don't intend to be anyone's prey. That tells me Lana has eyes wide open and wants Chloe to back the hell off.

When Lana heard from Lex, she was probably upset that Chloe didn’t tell her about her concerns first but instead threatened Lex. Makes it seem like Chloe didn’t feel Lana was capable of taking care of herself. IMO Lana did not have her eyes open, I think she is just sick of everyone keeping her in the dark and seeing her as the victim. Yes she has made mistakes but admitting that she had trust issues with herself and soughting Chloe out made it seem she was open for Chloe's input for a change. IMO, I think friends who give it to you straight up are better than ones who beat around the bush.

Chloe is not to be blamed for sleeping with Lex – that was Lana’s doing. But her advice to Lana was questionable.

MeLoveYouLongTime

10-14-2006, 07:27 PM

If Chloe had turned around and been like 'Yo slimmy,your shorty is mad wack!" Lana would not have had it.She would have gotten all indignant and b*itchy...I think most friends are supportive when they see their friends happy,and in the event of a crisis/heartbreak they're there judgment free with a shoulder to lean on.(I think Chloe's that kinda friend.(give or take the ebonics...lol)

RobynAdele0406

10-14-2006, 07:28 PM

attitudejc

10-14-2006, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
To Chloe, she should've seen Lana going to her about Lex as a golden opportunity to set her straight about him and instead, she told Lana to grow some fins.

i can see where you are coming from in all of your other arguments that you are making..and this is my only rebuttle or whatever :p

even though chloe didn't set lana straight..she didn't say go grow some fins..she said that if she wanted to, then to grow some fins...that it was her decsion...not in those exact words of course..:o

cmm

10-14-2006, 07:43 PM

I think chloe's speech is up to interpretation because what I got from it was I wouldn't have a relationship with lex but i'm not you, you can only do what you think is right for you. But, don't take too long and let life pass you by and to be quite honest even if she would have said NO lana don't I think lana would have just turned around and said well that's your opinion chloe but I like lex and he hasn't done anything bad to me as she's done in the past. Cyborg has told her lex isn't good news and he was a victim of lex, Clarks told her, Chloe's told her how much more do you need. If she really needs to proof of lex's evilness investigate I dont' get why she can't do that to find out the truth for herself. But back to the subject at hand, I think the writers in this instance wanted to show Lana as maturing making her own choices even if it is the wrong one and we the audience knows it's the wrong one. I also happen to think Lex cares about her to some extent however, I think she's also a trophy to him as he managed to get her from clark. Anyways, I'm fairly certain that near the end of this lana will learn the truth about lex luthor clark's speech to lex about her seeing him for what he truly is tells me that lex is gonna screw up and lana is either gonna overhear something or stumble upon something that lex will not be able to lie his way out of.

ginnyfan

10-14-2006, 07:47 PM

^great points cmm. :) I thought this was a big step for Lana as a character.

attitudejc

10-14-2006, 07:49 PM

wow..that was perfect cmm..:eek:

D.M.A.

10-14-2006, 07:58 PM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
The you can't watch people splashing around was referring to Lana's statement... that she holds back from taking risks b/c she's afraid of herself. Chloe is telling her that that is no way to live.

You say "playing it safe" I say "being polite." Chloe threatened Lex to stay away from Lana in Season 5 or he'd have her to deal with. Lex tattled to Lana. Lana bit Chloe's head off then Chloe told Lana straight up that she can understand trying to hurt Clark but she needs to make sure she doesn't get hurt in the process... to which Lana replys I don't intend to be anyone's prey. That tells me Lana has eyes wide open and wants Chloe to back the hell off.

So... Then Lana estranges herself from both Chloe and (more understandably) Clark.

Why didn't Lana just come out and ask "should I sleep with Lex"? She put her question to Chloe in the context of her whole life and a pattern she's been in. That's the context in which Chloe answered.

Their friendship is already strained... Lana felt she had to make up an excuse to even see Chloe. It makes sense to me that it would all play out a little formal. They just aren't at the place anymore where Chloe could say dump Lex Lana he's bad news.

Maybe she should've but I don't think she's a bad friend not to. Blaming Chloe for Lana sleeping with Lex is beyond ludicrous to me! Perhaps if Lana had told Chloe she was thinking of sleeping with Lex... the way she did with the Jason situation, Chloe's answer would have been different. But Lana was very general in her question. I mean Lana's living in the same house with Lex, all over the papers as the next Lexgirl. As far as Chloe knows they are sleeping together already.

Chloe did say something. She said Lex wouldn't even be on her list. And not for a moment did I think she meant that bald guys weren't to her taste! LOL!

I understand that you guys feel that she should have said something more! Something like... DON'T SLEEP WITH LEX LANA!!! ARE YOU NUTS!!! But I don't think she's a bad friend b/c she decided to give objective friendly... polite advise regarding the question she was asked and only touch on the subtext.

Ahh... but it was true in Vessel. Lex and Lana were lying to themselves and dancing around their attraction for each other. Chloe saw it. She made a good call. Lana told her to back off. She got mad a Chloe instead of examining herself.

I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. :)
never thought i'd agree wit u,but I do that's exactly what I felt chloe was doin in the episode.She was answerin lana question about takin risk,not if she should sleep wit lex,but I think sum r alil upset that she did.If lana wouldn't have slept wit lex and chloe still gave that advise I don't think this would even be a discussion,but truefully it was lana decision to sleep wit him.Chloe jus told her to grow a backbone and make a decision on her own.And I agree if lana would have said she was thinkin of sleepin wit lex,then maybe the advise would have been diff,but chloe answer what lana actually asked.The girl can't read minds,I doubt she knew lana had intentions on sleepin wit lex.so I agree here

Originally posted by cmm
I think chloe's speech is up to interpretation because what I got from it was I wouldn't have a relationship with lex but i'm not you, you can only do what you think is right for you. But, don't take too long and let life pass you by and to be quite honest even if she would have said NO lana don't I think lana would have just turned around and said well that's your opinion chloe but I like lex and he hasn't done anything bad to me as she's done in the past. Cyborg has told her lex isn't good news and he was a victim of lex, Clarks told her, Chloe's told her how much more do you need. If she really needs to proof of lex's evilness investigate I dont' get why she can't do that to find out the truth for herself. But back to the subject at hand, I think the writers in this instance wanted to show Lana as maturing making her own choices even if it is the wrong one and we the audience knows it's the wrong one. I also happen to think Lex cares about her to some extent however, I think she's also a trophy to him as he managed to get her from clark. Anyways, I'm fairly certain that near the end of this lana will learn the truth about lex luthor clark's speech to lex about her seeing him for what he truly is tells me that lex is gonna screw up and lana is either gonna overhear something or stumble upon something that lex will not be able to lie his way out of.
yea those r sum good points and u may be right about her overhearin lex wit sumthin.Then again wit clark statements maybe that's why he ask lionel for help in testin her in the upcomin episode cause he wants to be sure that she won't leave his side/believe others.So ur right her actions(Tho bad)could be for a reason as to show a certain growth in her,but we'll see.This episode had so many mixed signals/rushed parts its hard to fault anyone jus yet.Hopefully they redeem themselves in arrow

InLove_with_Chloe

10-14-2006, 08:31 PM

Originally posted by cmm
But back to the subject at hand, I think the writers in this instance wanted to show Lana as maturing making her own choices even if it is the wrong one and we the audience knows it's the wrong one.

...but has Lana really matured?
Hasn't she always taken the wrong choices by herself, over and over, and over again?!?

letia84

10-14-2006, 09:28 PM

I said no it was bad adivce. In the same breathe she tells her that Luhtors are evil then turns around and tells Lana she should be happy and stop worrying about anything else. Lana had a big turn when she admitted she made mistake but it was belittled by Chloe no acknownledge what she was saying and pushing her to Lex.

cmm

10-14-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by InLove_with_Chloe
...but has Lana really matured?
Hasn't she always taken the wrong choices by herself, over and over, and over again?!?

Point is those previous choices were made in haste and usually they were in response to what either clark or chloe said not to or to do. (Example, Clark saying lex is bad news and you shouldn't trust him, she does what clark says not to do and trusts him.) This one she actually thought about before making it. Edited to add that shows maturity from my pov

All about Clark

10-14-2006, 10:47 PM

They certainly made the point that Lana and Chloe are not close anymore with the way Lana approached Chloe.

Being that Lana is feeling isolated with Lex, quite possibly Lana was reaching out to Chloe knowing she was going to be with Lex, as if Chloe could save her.

I saw it as Chloe telling her to stand on her own 2 feet and make her own decisions and live life.

I know myankskent wanted Chloe to pull Lana in and be buddy buddy again and give her the dirt. But what I think needs to be considered is that Lana hasn't deserved it as of late, she is constantly pushing people away like she did with Chloe in Fade.

Think about it this way, they should have remained roomates after all Chloe is helped Lana in this area, yet Lana runs off and leaves Chloe looking for her own place to live.

Basically, I think there friendship is almost over as well.

dance-shop-snark

10-15-2006, 12:02 AM

ok um.. if people are mad about this is anyone going to blame the writers????

I mean it was random and totally uncharacteristic of chloe...

not to mention this amazing point:
in "unsafe" when Lana basically asked the sex question to chloe (not indirectly this time like in wither) what did chloe tell her?

be careful and make sure. because chloe herself was a little regretful.

and what did Lana do?
she offered sex to jason anyways..

so what good would a "don't be with Lex" do. Lana knew she wanted to. if only subconsiously.

And chloe is not a bad friend. She's the best friend he has.

mobiusklein

10-15-2006, 12:42 AM

Various advice columnists have said that screaming "OH MY GOD,HE'S THE DEVIL!" to your daughter/friend/sister only causes the gal to run into the guy's arms harder. I'm sure that if Chloe had warned Lana harder then Lana threw a hissy fit, people would still blame Chloe because she warned Lana wrong.

Absolute Kingdom

10-15-2006, 04:23 AM

Originally posted by ginnyfan
You say "playing it safe" I say "being polite." Chloe threatened Lex to stay away from Lana in Season 5 or he'd have her to deal with.

I see your point but IMO Chloe didnt do the right thing in both cases. First she should've talked with Lana, instead of going to Lex. That's why it appeared like she was jumping to conclusions, and I understand why Lana was defensive.

Chloe is known for making good decisions, but she's not always right, and IMO in that case she was wrong, simply because it wasnt her place to go and talk to Lex. However she has all the right to go and tell Lana what she thinks, because they're friends, but she didnt. If I have a friend who goes behind my back and talks something about me, I wouldn't feel very good. If someone has to say something about my life, they should come and talk to me face to face. First to me, and then if I give that person a permision they can go and talk as much as they want.

There is a difference between trying to do the right thing, and actually doing the right thing the right way. Perhaps my judgment is a result of my personality: straight forward, no holding back and in your face.

Originally posted by ginnyfan Their friendship is already strained... Lana felt she had to make up an excuse to even see Chloe. It makes sense to me that it would all play out a little formal. They just aren't at the place anymore where Chloe could say dump Lex Lana he's bad news.

In other words, both of them were pretending to be something they're not anymore. Or, their friendship is not what it used to be anymore, if you will. In that case there is no excuse for both of them, they were simply being hypocrites.

Originally posted by ginnyfan Maybe she should've but I don't think she's a bad friend not to. Blaming Chloe for Lana sleeping with Lex is beyond ludicrous to me!

I'd appreciate if you dont put words in my mouth, because I repeatedly stated that I dont blame Chloe for Lana's actions.

Originally posted by ginnyfan I understand that you guys feel that she should have said something more! Something like... DON'T SLEEP WITH LEX LANA!!! ARE YOU NUTS!!! But I don't think she's a bad friend b/c she decided to give objective friendly... polite advise regarding the question she was asked and only touch on the subtext.

For this reason Lois is one of my favorite characters, because she's brutally honest ;) and she tells the story just the way it is. Perhaps its not polite, but its always the right thing to do, no matter what the cost.

I guess you can say that I was disappointed with Chloe, because I expected much more from her.

Originally posted by ginnyfan I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree. :)

Of course, if we all have the same oppinions it wouldn't be interesting :D

HalJordan4184

10-15-2006, 08:31 AM

Excuse me myanskent, but how do i not know the meaning of "friendship", and being a "friend"? Is it because i won't put up with my friends being stupid time and again, and won't support their bad behaviors and decisions a million times. People don't change, when you give them no reason to. Chloe supporting Lana, and giving her a crutch to lean on, isn't going to make Lana see the light and change, it's going to make her keep being the same Lana, because nothing will be wrong.

For what it's worth, I'm a great friend, and I'm pretty sure it's against the board rules to personally say I must not be, and don't know the meaning of friendship.

And for the record, since this keeps getting avoided, WHAT MORE SHOULD CHLOE HAVE SAID? Lana has voiced her doubts about Lex, and at the end of season four thought he was practically the devil. Now she's jumping in bed with him. Chloe can't change that with a simple, "he's bad news Lana". The whole world over thinks Lex is shady, a womanizer, and liar. Heck, he lied right to her face when he said she's the only girl he's ever asked to move in with him. HELLO, Helen, Victoria, any of those ringing any bells? And Lana knew it. Lana knows he's shady. Chloe and Clark can't say anymore, pretty much because Lana has already said she won't believe them. If Chloe says Lex is bad, she'll just say she's being that way because Clark is her friend, and he's influenced her way of thinking. How exactly are they going to do this, without Clark revealing his secret, which Lana would freak out about, and probably run back and tell Lex everything?

TheSupaMan

10-15-2006, 09:45 AM

Lana's pretty stubborn but also gullible in some sense. If Chloe told her everything and she went to Lex to address it. Lex would come up with something believable and Lana will go with it.

Blacksupes32

10-15-2006, 09:49 AM

"When Lana went to Chloe for advice about a more serious relationship with Lex, who Chloe knows ALL about ...... how evil he is, how dishonest he is, what a danger he is to Clark and to Lana as well . . . Chloe practically threw Lana right into Lex's arms, when a good friend knowing these things about someone else would've at least encouraged Lana to get to know Lex a lot better before she made such a big decision."

This is in response to the first comment made on the thread ( a little late but...):
Personally, I don't believe that lex has gone evil. He is just made some mistakes. He has been constantly accused by clark, and barely defends himself. I'm sad to see him finally kick clark out of his house but it is motivated, clark had it coming. Zod wasn't his fault, he didn't know what he was truly getting into. Up until the end he was trying to help save man kind. I see Lex as just someone who is losing his patience, he hasn't done anything truly "evil" or even close to it for a while.

mobiusklein

10-15-2006, 10:15 AM

For heaven's sakes, Lana knows Lex covered up a DEAD BODY for her, she knows what he can do. What more does she want, a blazing neon sign above his head with the words "May know things you don't that are extremely unpleasant?"

khufu

10-15-2006, 11:04 AM

chlarkfan333

10-15-2006, 11:17 AM

Not to mention Chloe got her head bitten off the last time she interfered with Lexana.

lee_the_flee

10-15-2006, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by khufu
Thank you! And she also saw the tape where Lex is discussing the fact that he is being followed, which shows that he was keeping stuff from her. She might not have all the information that Chloe has - I get that - but she has more than enough to be able to make an intelligent decision on her own, even with knowing what Chloe knows.

Amen to that, brother!!!

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally posted by khufu
Well this is only the 10th thread on the same subject, but I'll say it again: How many times does Chloe have to tell Lana that he is bad/a preditor/an oportunist/etc before Lana listens to her??? When Chloe thought Lex was taking advantage of Lana and went to yell at Lex, Lana chewed Chloe out for butting in!!! And even last night Chloe told Lana that Lex wouldn't even be on her list - please watch that scene again and look at LANA's reaction when Chloe disses Lex, her expression reads: "yeah I know Chloe, you hate Lex". At some point, you guys need to start blaming Lana for her own stupid decisions.

I absolutely agree with you. Lana isn't a child, maybe a constant whinner but not a child and yes Chloe did say he wouldn't even be on her list and Lana made a face.

They are adults now and we all know that when a friend comes for advice about someone they like/love and you go agaisnt them they aren't going to listen to reason anyway.

Lana knows what Lex is capable of but has decided to throw herself at him because she thinks that the little bits of truths he's told her makes Lex a good guy. :rotfl: :rotfl:

So good luck Lana

anyone else barff when they took off their clothes? :eek:

myankskent

10-15-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally posted by All about Clark
They certainly made the point that Lana and Chloe are not close anymore with the way Lana approached Chloe.

Being that Lana is feeling isolated with Lex, quite possibly Lana was reaching out to Chloe knowing she was going to be with Lex, as if Chloe could save her.

I saw it as Chloe telling her to stand on her own 2 feet and make her own decisions and live life.

I know myankskent wanted Chloe to pull Lana in and be buddy buddy again and give her the dirt. But what I think needs to be considered is that Lana hasn't deserved it as of late, she is constantly pushing people away like she did with Chloe in Fade.

Think about it this way, they should have remained roomates after all Chloe is helped Lana in this area, yet Lana runs off and leaves Chloe looking for her own place to live.

Basically, I think there friendship is almost over as well.

Well if that's the case, then why in the world would Chloe take Lana upstairs to have a talk with her? Chloe could've made up an excuse saying that she doesn't have time to talk and that would've been the end of it.

And Lana didn't push Chloe away in Fade, she pushed her away in Fragile after she found out from Lex that Chloe had gone to talk to him about his relationship with Lana. I don't fault Lana at all in that episode because Chloe didn't come to her to talk about it.

The bottom line is that if Chloe is going to take the approach of "I really don't care about this girl anymore and let her make her own mistakes", then not only is that foolish considering the fact that Lana was already killed once as a result of her affiliation with Lex, but it flat out doesn't make any sense to agree to talk to lana in the first place!

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Excuse me myanskent, but how do i not know the meaning of "friendship", and being a "friend"? Is it because i won't put up with my friends being stupid time and again, and won't support their bad behaviors and decisions a million times. People don't change, when you give them no reason to. Chloe supporting Lana, and giving her a crutch to lean on, isn't going to make Lana see the light and change, it's going to make her keep being the same Lana, because nothing will be wrong.

For what it's worth, I'm a great friend, and I'm pretty sure it's against the board rules to personally say I must not be, and don't know the meaning of friendship.

You're right, we just have different viewpoints on what being a friend is all about. You'd prefer to cut a friend off if they make stupid choices and I'd keep warning them, especially if I know that they already were killed once for making these types of choices.

And for the record, since this keeps getting avoided, WHAT MORE SHOULD CHLOE HAVE SAID? Lana has voiced her doubts about Lex, and at the end of season four thought he was practically the devil. Now she's jumping in bed with him. Chloe can't change that with a simple, "he's bad news Lana". The whole world over thinks Lex is shady, a womanizer, and liar. Heck, he lied right to her face when he said she's the only girl he's ever asked to move in with him. HELLO, Helen, Victoria, any of those ringing any bells? And Lana knew it. Lana knows he's shady. Chloe and Clark can't say anymore, pretty much because Lana has already said she won't believe them. If Chloe says Lex is bad, she'll just say she's being that way because Clark is her friend, and he's influenced her way of thinking. How exactly are they going to do this, without Clark revealing his secret, which Lana would freak out about, and probably run back and tell Lex everything?

Then why talk to Lana at all?! Come on, you have Lana going to you about doubts that she has about Lex, then she twists it around saying that she doesn't trust herself and that she pins all of the blame on other people. If you're Chloe there, you don't tell Lana there that in this particular scenario, she is right to have doubts about Lex and that it has nothing to do with her not trusting herself? And if I'm Chloe there, I don't give a damn what Lana says if I go into detail on what I think about Lex. She's the one coming to me about it, not the other way around. In Fragile, Chloe went about it all wrong by not going to Lana about it in the first place. This was Chloe's chance to tell Lana what she knows, like with cyborg and aquaman, basically everything that doesn't relate to Clark secret that she has found out about him, and she didn't do it, plain and simple.

It's unbelievable to me how Chloe had no problem giving Clark the same advice over and over again throughout season 5 even though Clark never listened to her, whether it was about Clark not having his powers or about lana or about Brainiac, but with Lana, Chloe can't give Lana that kind of advice when she is presented with a golden opportunity to do so? I'm sorry, but saying things like "Lana wouldn't listen to her anyway" or "Lana doesn't deserve to hear this advice" when it could cost her her life seems pretty ridiculous to me.

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 11:48 AM

Sometimes one has to distance themselves from certain friends but not cut them out and I don't think Chloe will cut Lana off if she really needed Chloe.

Chloe will always be there when Lana comes to her senses. If ever.

You honestly think Lana would listen if Chloe said she shouldn't be with him? Absolutely NOT

myankskent

10-15-2006, 11:52 AM

Originally posted by Ilovebeinglost
Sometimes one has to distance themselves from certain friends but not cut them out and I don't think Chloe will cut Lana off if she really needed Chloe.

Chloe will always be there when Lana comes to her senses. If ever.

You honestly think Lana would listen if Chloe said she shouldn't be with him? Absolutely NOT

Again I say, does it really matter if Lana listens? If she doesn't listen, then Chloe would've done everything in her power to stop her from going further with Lex and Lana would have to deal with whatever cards were dealt to her. I just don't like the idea of not telling someone something because you think that it would do no good, especially if that person comes to you for your honest advice. Maybe it makes me a stupid person for caring, but I honestly don't care what it makes me look like if I have a chance to get through to someone.

mobiusklein

10-15-2006, 11:57 AM

So, you'd prefer it if Chloe didn't talk to her at all?

How much power do you expect people to spend? I know someone whose brother was alcoholic and finally decided the guy had to hit bottom to let him choose when he could be clean and sober. Lana has made the same mistake over and over and over again. She has to hit bottom to wise up herself.

One family locked their kid out of the house and THAT'S when she finally got her crap together. Various advice columnists have said that you really can't get your sibling/friend/parent to dump someone but let them face the consequences of their actions.

You can grouse all you like that you'd phrase it differently but to think that Chloe could change Lana's mind that much . . . Bah, Chloe would be getting another accusation of being "magical."

And there's a huge difference between being a "friend" and a "parent." chloe is not Lana's mama.

chlarkfan333

10-15-2006, 12:02 PM

^^ Didn't you know? It's always Chloe's fault. :rolleyes:

*Sigh* Sorry people, deflecting blame onto another character for one character's flaw(s) is simply irresponsible. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, really. Everyone has made mistakes, Chloe included and their mistakes are their own.

myankskent

10-15-2006, 12:03 PM

Originally posted by mobiusklein
So, you'd prefer it if Chloe didn't talk to her at all?

How much power do you expect people to spend? I know someone whose brother was alcoholic and finally decided the guy had to hit bottom. Lana has made the same mistake over and over and over again. She has to hit bottom to wise up herself

How much power has Chloe spent? This would be the first time that she would have a conversation to Lana about Lex. In Fragile, Chloe spoke to Lex about it and then accused Lana of lying to her about her feelings for Lex when lana confronted Chloe on her going to Lex. Now, Lana comes to Chloe for advice and you say that it would be overkill if Chloe told Lana information that she knows about Lex for the first time? And once again, Lana did hit rock bottom and rock bottom for her meant death. So now that you know what rock bottom is for Lana, all the more reason to try and set her straight if you are going to engage in a conversation with her about Lex.

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Again I say, does it really matter if Lana listens? If she doesn't listen, then Chloe would've done everything in her power to stop her from going further with Lex and Lana would have to deal with whatever cards were dealt to her. I just don't like the idea of not telling someone something because you think that it would do no good, especially if that person comes to you for your honest advice. Maybe it makes me a stupid person for caring, but I honestly don't care what it makes me look like if I have a chance to get through to someone.

Ok let's pretend this is real life. :rolleyes:
Have you ever told a friend that's in love she shouldn't be with someone? Obviously not

First you have to go through a song and dance and tell stories while they tune you out then they stop talking to you because you didn't tell them what they wanted to hear.

And obviously you forgot the part where Chloe said that Lex would NOT be on her list and the look on Lana's face told Chloe not to even bother with the rest.

And get real here the writers want it going this way for pete sakes.:p

myankskent

10-15-2006, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by mobiusklein

And there's a huge difference between being a "friend" and a "parent." chloe is not Lana's mama.

Ok, so then I guess you are saying that Chloe is Clark's mama since she constantly gives him advice. Glad we got that straightened out.

chlarkfan333

10-15-2006, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Ok, so then I guess you are saying that Chloe is Clark's mama since she constantly gives him advice. Glad we got that straightened out.

Isn't that the problem though that people have with Chloe? So which is it? Is she too much of a 'mama' or not enough?

myankskent

10-15-2006, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by chlarkfan333
Isn't that the problem though that people have with Chloe? So which is it? Is she too much of a 'mama' or not enough?

Look at the title of this thread. Was it uncharacteristic of Chloe to give this kind of advice and I say that it was. Whether Chloe acts too much like a "mama" really isn't for this thread.

mobiusklein

10-15-2006, 12:10 PM

I just doubt that Chloe would be able to stop Lana from boinking Lex. It's not like Lex is holding her hostage there. If getting stabbed through the hand in Zod doesn't sway her from being with Lex due to personal safety issues, I don't think anything would work.

chlarkfan333

10-15-2006, 12:15 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Look at the title of this thread. Was it uncharacteristic of Chloe to give this kind of advice and I say that it was. Whether Chloe acts too much like a "mama" really isn't for this thread.

You made the statement "Ok, so then I guess you are saying that Chloe is Clark's mama since she constantly gives him advice. Glad we got that straightened out." I was merely responding to the contradiction inherent in your viewpoint.

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by chlarkfan333
You made the statement "Ok, so then I guess you are saying that Chloe is Clark's mama since she constantly gives him advice. Glad we got that straightened out." I was merely responding to the contradiction inherent in your viewpoint.

And Clark will normaly listen to Chloe or AT LEAST WILL CONSIDER IT.

Damali

10-15-2006, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by mobiusklein
For heaven's sakes, Lana knows Lex covered up a DEAD BODY for her, she knows what he can do. What more does she want, a blazing neon sign above his head with the words "May know things you don't that are extremely unpleasant?"

While Lex did plant the story about Mrs. T (and Jason's) death in the papers, Lionel was the one who initially covered up the dead body. Lex had lawyers in place in Metropolis, to help Lana. However, Lionel took the body and then ordered Lex to get the stone from Lana or else. And then the meteor shower happened and so on...

Originally posted by myankskent
Again I say, does it really matter if Lana listens? If she doesn't listen, then Chloe would've done everything in her power to stop her from going further with Lex and Lana would have to deal with whatever cards were dealt to her. I just don't like the idea of not telling someone something because you think that it would do no good, especially if that person comes to you for your honest advice. Maybe it makes me a stupid person for caring, but I honestly don't care what it makes me look like if I have a chance to get through to someone.

I agree. I don't think it really matters if Lana would have listen to Chloe's advice or not. It's not the real issue. It's about the kind of advice Chloe gave and the kind of info she has on Lex. What Chloe said to Lana, didn't convey any of the real reasons as to why Chloe doesn't like Lex. Chloe more or less says, well he's not my type, but you have to find your own happiness. She could have said so much more, but she doesn't.

And while I'm aganist the Lexana relationship, I do find it odd that no one is telling Lana to run for the hills. It's like all of the sudden no one thinks Lex is that evil, except for Clark. This was the perfect opportunity for Chloe to voice all that concern she had back in Fragile.

Originally posted by mobiusklein
I just doubt that Chloe would be able to stop Lana from boinking Lex. It's not like Lex is holding her hostage there. If getting stabbed through the hand in Zod doesn't sway her from being with Lex due to personal safety issues, I don't think anything would work.

IMO, this isn't about Lana choosing to stay with Lex. It's about the kind of advice Chloe COULD have given vs what she actually said.

LetMeGo

10-15-2006, 12:31 PM

Lana already knew what Chloe’s opinion of Lex was. She flat out told her last season that Lex was a predator. So you have to wonder if she wanted to hear Chloe tell her to back away from Lex, really what else could she have expected? And if that is true then Chloe did fail Lana as a friend.

chlarkfan333

10-15-2006, 12:36 PM

The scene makes both characters look bad, IMO. Chloe for not telling Lana (although I don't think so) and Lana for being unable to work things out herself.

ginnyfan

10-15-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Absolute Kingdom
Of course, if we all have the same oppinions it wouldn't be interesting :D

That's true. :)

I think we need to consider the fact that perhaps Lana has made it clear to Chloe thru her behavior that she has chosen Lex. Again, as far as Chloe knows they are already sleeping together. And knowing full well that Lana has chosen Lex... and there's no question about whether or not she's going to be in a relationship with Lex... Chloe manages to slip in the fact that Lex wouldn't even be on her list...

Also, Lois... though very tell it like it is... is also very perceptive. And when Lana approached her with big sad eyes about Lex... and, just as she did with Chloe, flat out lied to Lois about her feelings for Lex... Lois saw that she was in love with... or anyway that she had chosen Lex for good or ill... and needed a sympathetic ear.

I know my... someone close to me suffered from anorexia... I was the only voice of kindness... at that time. And when she was diagnosed I... I really beat myself up... A lot of people were the "bad guy." Telling her she looked like a skeleton... etc. etc. I was a sympathtic ear and a mediator. Well when she was diagnosed I... it was so hard for me... I felt so guilty... Maybe I should have been harder... and meaner... instead of sympathetic... and giving her the benefit of the doubt...

But since then... she's gotten better... and... she's let me know that... the biggest thing she needed to know was that she was loved. During that time she needed someone to simply ask her what's wrong. Sometimes the problem isn't the problem that people see... Sometimes what people see is the... a symptom of a bigger problem...

Anyway, Lois didn't stick it to her. She gave her a sympathetic ear. (Season 5 in the Talon) Lana ended up talking to her for hours... So there's a time for harsh words and a time for gentleness. Maybe Chloe's conversation should have been the time for harsh words. But she's not a bad friend because she chose gentleness. In fact Chloe increased the chances that Lana will come to her again. Rather than continuing to cut her off and recieve no advice at all.

With Lana's actions... the buck stops at her. You can only blame Lex, Clark, Chloe and anyone else to a certain degree. If your life goes to pot... you got to look in the mirror first. Yes people influence you... but everyone has free will and power of choice. And I don't think anything Chloe said during this scene... is indicative of her overall character... to the point where I'd say its uncharacteristic of her. LOL! I just don't get this debate...

I don't see how giving a certain kind of advice is characteristic of someone. Can I have some examples of Chloe-advice which drastically contridicts what she told Lana? Please?

I'd say that Chloe's advice to Lana regarding Jason was similar... also, Lana would've had sex with Jason anyway if he hadn't stepped in and said she wasn't ready.

SnarkMasterJ

10-15-2006, 02:34 PM

Great points, ginnyfan. I'm sure if everyone had that perspective, there would be a whole lot less of this back and forth stuff going on.

Originally posted by myankskent
Again I say, does it really matter if Lana listens? If she doesn't listen, then Chloe would've done everything in her power to stop her from going further with Lex and Lana would have to deal with whatever cards were dealt to her. I just don't like the idea of not telling someone something because you think that it would do no good, especially if that person comes to you for your honest advice. Maybe it makes me a stupid person for caring, but I honestly don't care what it makes me look like if I have a chance to get through to someone.

I think you're making the situation out to be SO much more than what it was actually about.

Lana was in danger of succumbing to Lex's "treachery" before she went to Chloe. Lana was in danger when she went to Chloe. Lana will continue be in danger long after the miniscule advice Chloe actually gave her. I seriously doubt that TPTB honestly meant for us to take that scene between Lana and Chloe as some kind of fork-in-the-road, magnificent transition for Lana from good to evil with Chloe forcing her through the door. Lana came for a girl's perspective on the situation, and that's just what she got. The fact that you and so many people are trying to read things into it that aren't there and making it out to be me this humongous deal that "OMGZ CHLOE FED LANA TO THE WOLVES" is utterly ridiculous, and I'm surprised there's even an argument going on.

Granted, that doesn't mean people can't have their own interpretations of the scene. But be reasonable and think about the scene in light of the big picture instead of putting everything in a box.

KryptonX81

10-15-2006, 02:46 PM

At this point Lex isnt evil and isnt a danger to anyone that doesnt deserve it. if Lana and Lex are happy together that is all that should matter.

D.M.A.

10-15-2006, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Look at the title of this thread. Was it uncharacteristic of Chloe to give this kind of advice and I say that it was. Whether Chloe acts too much like a "mama" really isn't for this thread.
well imo u jus proved the point,if the thread was about if it was uncharacteristic of chloe then I say no.Because even u and sum other anti's have stated that lois is the brutally honest one not chloe.Uncharacteristic would be her tellin lana to sleep wit him,but her advise is what's expected FROM CHLOE :D .And that is what I think sum ppl r gettin confused here,the thread is askin was it out of character for her to give that advise and we all know its not,she would give this advise to anyone.I agree wit those anti's that say they luv lois for bein so honest cause in this case maybe she would have told lana(If she knew),but this is chloe we're talkin about.Our own personal opinions(Like u stated urs)on how we would handle the situation isn't answerin the question.While I get what ur sayin and agree to a certain extint I don't feel as tho chloe words were far off from the norm,which as u stated about is what the title of the thread ask.Not if its bad advise but if its out of character of her to give this advise :)

Originally posted by ginnyfan
That's true. :)

I think we need to consider the fact that perhaps Lana has made it clear to Chloe thru her behavior that she has chosen Lex. Again, as far as Chloe knows they are already sleeping together. And knowing full well that Lana has chosen Lex... and there's no question about whether or not she's going to be in a relationship with Lex... Chloe manages to slip in the fact that Lex wouldn't even be on her list...

Also, Lois... though very tell it like it is... is also very perceptive. And when Lana approached her with big sad eyes about Lex... and, just as she did with Chloe, flat out lied to Lois about her feelings for Lex... Lois saw that she was in love with... or anyway that she had chosen Lex for good or ill... and needed a sympathetic ear.

I know my... someone close to me suffered from anorexia... I was the only voice of kindness... at that time. And when she was diagnosed I... I really beat myself up... A lot of people were the "bad guy." Telling her she looked like a skeleton... etc. etc. I was a sympathtic ear and a mediator. Well when she was diagnosed I... it was so hard for me... I felt so guilty... Maybe I should have been harder... and meaner... instead of sympathetic... and giving her the benefit of the doubt...

But since then... she's gotten better... and... she's let me know that... the biggest thing she needed to know was that she was loved. During that time she needed someone to simply ask her what's wrong. Sometimes the problem isn't the problem that people see... Sometimes what people see is the... a symptom of a bigger problem...

Anyway, Lois didn't stick it to her. She gave her a sympathetic ear. (Season 5 in the Talon) Lana ended up talking to her for hours... So there's a time for harsh words and a time for gentleness. Maybe Chloe's conversation should have been the time for harsh words. But she's not a bad friend because she chose gentleness. In fact Chloe increased the chances that Lana will come to her again. Rather than continuing to cut her off and recieve no advice at all.

With Lana's actions... the buck stops at her. You can only blame Lex, Clark, Chloe and anyone else to a certain degree. If your life goes to pot... you got to look in the mirror first. Yes people influence you... but everyone has free will and power of choice. And I don't think anything Chloe said during this scene... is indicative of her overall character... to the point where I'd say its uncharacteristic of her. LOL! I just don't get this debate...

I don't see how giving a certain kind of advice is characteristic of someone. Can I have some examples of Chloe-advice which drastically contridicts what she told Lana? Please?

I'd say that Chloe's advice to Lana regarding Jason was similar... also, Lana would've had sex with Jason anyway if he hadn't stepped in and said she wasn't ready.
agree completely

HalJordan4184

10-15-2006, 03:03 PM

Oh, so im just a bad friend now, because i wont put up with stupid behavior?

Putting up with bad behavior, and stupid friends, doesn't make the problem go away, it makes them think everything is fine. Me telling someone they have a problem a million times, and them not changing a million times, just tires me out. Being there for your friends, doesn't mean you put up with everything and sugar coat things, and always just try to gently nudge them. Being there for your friends, often means, kicking them off the cliff, so they hit bottom faster, and realize the need to change. You can either feed the habit, or be the one that changes it. And just telling them they need to change, without showing them their actions have negative consequences, isn't going to make them change.

myankskent

10-15-2006, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Oh, so im just a bad friend now, because i wont put up with stupid behavior?

Putting up with bad behavior, and stupid friends, doesn't make the problem go away, it makes them think everything is fine. Me telling someone they have a problem a million times, and them not changing a million times, just tires me out. Being there for your friends, doesn't mean you put up with everything and sugar coat things, and always just try to gently nudge them. Being there for your friends, often means, kicking them off the cliff, so they hit bottom faster, and realize the need to change. You can either feed the habit, or be the one that changes it. And just telling them they need to change, without showing them their actions have negative consequences, isn't going to make them change.

No, you are not a bad friend, you just would go about things with your friends differently than I would, and there is nothing wrong with that. Plus, the majority of "problems" that we'd have with our friends, at least I hope this would be the case, don't involve people dating supervillains like Lex or things as dangerous as that. I would probably do the same thing as you said above if it came to less dangerous matters, but when it comes to this situation, I just don't agree.

Rhoda123

10-15-2006, 05:42 PM

Lana has a brain.. maybe she should use it.. she sees how Lex is, she just chooses not to go with her gut feeling.. Chloe shouldn't have to tell her.. Lana is a big girl.. maybe Chloe is just tired of always having to give Lana advice..

myankskent

10-15-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
well imo u jus proved the point,if the thread was about if it was uncharacteristic of chloe then I say no.Because even u and sum other anti's have stated that lois is the brutally honest one not chloe.Uncharacteristic would be her tellin lana to sleep wit him,but her advise is what's expected FROM CHLOE :D .And that is what I think sum ppl r gettin confused here,the thread is askin was it out of character for her to give that advise and we all know its not,she would give this advise to anyone.I agree wit those anti's that say they luv lois for bein so honest cause in this case maybe she would have told lana(If she knew),but this is chloe we're talkin about.Our own personal opinions(Like u stated urs)on how we would handle the situation isn't answerin the question.While I get what ur sayin and agree to a certain extint I don't feel as tho chloe words were far off from the norm,which as u stated about is what the title of the thread ask.Not if its bad advise but if its out of character of her to give this advise :)

I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. If I were to disagree that the advice was out of character, which I did, then I think that it's relevant to call the advice "bad" when analyzing it.

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 05:52 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
, at least I hope this would be the case, don't involve people
dating supervillains like Lex
or things as dangerous as that. I would probably do the same thing as you said above if it came to less dangerous matters, but when it comes to this situation, I just don't agree.
]

Lex isn't a supervillian yet, right now he's a soiled rich kid who has a lot of power over other people with his money

MBCorp

10-15-2006, 05:54 PM

Has Chloe ever tried to warn Lana about the dangerous things that Lex has done? I know she told Lana that he was a "predator" but that was a bit vague. Did she ever go into any greater detail, like tell Lana that Lex was behind that situation in Mortal last season that almost got her killed?

myankskent

10-15-2006, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ

I think you're making the situation out to be SO much more than what it was actually about.

Lana was in danger of succumbing to Lex's "treachery" before she went to Chloe. Lana was in danger when she went to Chloe. Lana will continue be in danger long after the miniscule advice Chloe actually gave her. I seriously doubt that TPTB honestly meant for us to take that scene between Lana and Chloe as some kind of fork-in-the-road, magnificent transition for Lana from good to evil with Chloe forcing her through the door. Lana came for a girl's perspective on the situation, and that's just what she got. The fact that you and so many people are trying to read things into it that aren't there and making it out to be me this humongous deal that "OMGZ CHLOE FED LANA TO THE WOLVES" is utterly ridiculous, and I'm surprised there's even an argument going on.

Granted, that doesn't mean people can't have their own interpretations of the scene. But be reasonable and think about the scene in light of the big picture instead of putting everything in a box.

I never said that Chloe fed Lana to the wolves. I also never said that Lana is not the one responsible for making her own decisions when it comes to Lex. I am only talking about what Chloe said in this situation, a situation that involved Lana coming to her for advice about her relationship with Lex. Obviously Lana was very confused going into that conversation and instead of Chloe voicing her opinion about Lex based on what she has discovered/witnessed about him, she basically told Lana to grow some fins and dive in. There's nothing wrong with that advice if Lana was involved with a person that Chloe knows hasn't tortured people in the past along with many other things. But Chloe does know more about Lex than Lana does and if they are going to discuss Lex, then Chloe should've been honest about how she feels about him based on what she knows. Is it Lana who ultimately made the decision to have sex with Lex? Absolutely. Is she responsible for whatever may happen to her down the road? Absolutely. But that still doesn't mean that Chloe gave good advice there.

It's unbelievable how many people feel that Chloe can do no wrong from season 4 to the present. Most people who had a problem with her advice don't take the blame away from Lana and put it all on Chloe, at least that's not what I do. But I don't like Chloe's advice there given the situation.

Ilovebeinglost

10-15-2006, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
I never said that Chloe fed Lana to the wolves. I also never said that Lana is not the one responsible for making her own decisions when it comes to Lex. I am only talking about what Chloe said in this situation, a situation that involved Lana coming to her for advice about her relationship with Lex. Obviously Lana was very confused going into that conversation and instead of Chloe voicing her opinion about Lex based on what she has discovered/witnessed about him, she basically told Lana to grow some fins and dive in. There's nothing wrong with that advice if Lana was involved with a person that Chloe knows hasn't tortured people in the past along with many other things. But Chloe does know more about Lex than Lana does and if they are going to discuss Lex, then Chloe should've been honest about how she feels about him based on what she knows. Is it Lana who ultimately made the decision to have sex with Lex? Absolutely. Is she responsible for whatever may happen to her down the road? Absolutely. But that still doesn't mean that Chloe gave good advice there.

It's unbelievable how many people feel that Chloe can do no wrong from season 4 to the present. Most people who had a problem with her advice don't take the blame away from Lana and put it all on Chloe, at least that's not what I do. But I don't like Chloe's advice there given the situation.

Man I'd hate to give you any advice. You have a hard head and have missed everything that people have said so far.

:rotfl:

:rotfl:

I'm out of here

D.M.A.

10-15-2006, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
I'm not exactly sure what you are saying here. If I were to disagree that the advice was out of character, which I did, then I think that it's relevant to call the advice "bad" when analyzing it.
but the question isn't if the advise was bad,it was if her advise was uncharacteristic.Meanin diff from chloe persona and imo it wasn't,this is exactly how we've come to expect from chloe.Now if it was lois then maybe I'd agree fully,but I've stated the advise could be looked at as both bad/good.But the thread question wasn't if it was,but more of is this what to expect from chloe compared to her past interactions,and I say yes.I mean yes u've made it clear that if it was u u would have told all u know,but it doesn't ask what would u do.What I'm sayin and others have too is ur lookin at this from ur own point of view and faultin a character for sumthin we all should expect to see from her.If she would have been this way in the past then yea,but she did nothin out the ordinary which is where I think u have things confused.Thats what I was statin,ur own comment says the thread ask if it was uncharacteristic(Meanin sumthin she wouldn't normally do),and I say no.R u tellin me that chloe would have spilled it all about lex before in prior seasons,we all kno lois would.But chloe...I think her actions were common,not sayin the best since that can be argued but common for her character

RobynAdele0406

10-15-2006, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
It's unbelievable how many people feel that Chloe can do no wrong from season 4 to the present.

That's an unfair generalization. I certainly don't believe that "Chloe can do no wrong." Every character has his/her own flaws. In this case, I just don't see anything wrong with what she did. We can go on and on about "well, she could have said this, she could have said that", but can't we do that with every character in every dialogue? There's always something that could be better, could have played out better.

All about Clark

10-15-2006, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Ilovebeinglost
Man I'd hate to give you any advice. You have a hard head and have missed everything that people have said so far.

OK, I will have to second this one. Sorry myankskent.

The bottom line is, Chloe has to talk to Lana in a way that she will actually listen to, because Lana has shown she is famous for getting pissed off and ignoring everything that was said. Lana doesn't deserve for Chloe to combat Lana on this issue. You can't force people to listen. You can't force them to take your advice. Besides, the way I see it, is that by Lana living with Lex she has already accepted that sex would be next. Lana made that choice already, leaving Chloe behind in the process. Chloe is not one to write off Lana, but there is no reason for Chloe to go overboard to protect her.

jmf1977

10-15-2006, 07:53 PM

I think Chloe gave Lana bad advice when she knows how bad and dishonest Lex is. Of course Lana is a big girl but she came to a friend for advice. I'm sure Clark would not be ecstatic that Chloe basically gave her the green light to sleep with Lex. I read in one post that Chloe "knew Lana and Clark would never work out". Well in the first part of Reckoning Chloe knew how much Clark loved her and he told Lana his secret and proposed. Chloe also knew that Lana said yes. How she can now turn her back and act like she does not care or know anything is ridiculous. I can only hope that Clark will find out about Chloe's behavior. I posted this before, that Chloe is too involved in this show, her sidekick role is way over the top.

mobiusklein

10-15-2006, 07:59 PM

Oh, please. Why are some people painting it as if Chloe said "marry him and ride his package like a pony"? She said no such thing.

RedPhoenix23

10-15-2006, 08:11 PM

I thought it was weird that Chloe didn't take that opportunity to actually TELL Lana about some of the messed up things that Lex has done like torture AC and kill Victor Stones doctor. What kind of freind is that? That's a freindship killer if Lana finds out later what Lex did and Chloe knew.

SnarkMasterJ

10-15-2006, 08:33 PM

Originally posted by All about Clark
OK, I will have to second this one.

I'm thirding it. Honestly I give up and there's nothing that I or anyone else can say to make any bit of difference.

Peace out.

RobynAdele0406

10-15-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by jmf1977
I think Chloe gave Lana bad advice when she knows how bad and dishonest Lex is. Of course Lana is a big girl but she came to a friend for advice. I'm sure Clark would not be ecstatic that Chloe basically gave her the green light to sleep with Lex. I read in one post that Chloe "knew Lana and Clark would never work out". Well in the first part of Reckoning Chloe knew how much Clark loved her and he told Lana his secret and proposed. Chloe also knew that Lana said yes. How she can now turn her back and act like she does not care or know anything is ridiculous. I can only hope that Clark will find out about Chloe's behavior. I posted this before, that Chloe is too involved in this show, her sidekick role is way over the top.

Ok, first off, please try to get the facts straight. Chloe never gave Lana the "green light" to sleep with Lex because a) sex was NEVER brought into the discussion and b) last I recalled, Chloe was NOT in the Lexana relationship, so Chloe does NOT call the shots. Lana went to Chloe for advice and Chloe gave her advice. Secondly, Clark and Lana are over, dead, finito. And that was Clark's decision to make, not Chloe. What did you want Chloe to do, tell Lana "no, hold out for Clark! He'll tell you his secret sooner or later... er,... or not... but yeah, Clark loves you! Lex is evil!!!1!"

D.M.A.

10-15-2006, 09:05 PM

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
I thought it was weird that Chloe didn't take that opportunity to actually TELL Lana about some of the messed up things that Lex has done like torture AC and kill Victor Stones doctor. What kind of freind is that? That's a freindship killer if Lana finds out later what Lex did and Chloe knew.
:lol: u can tell that friendship is dyin,they were never really close so now we're seein it more.

dance-shop-snark

10-15-2006, 10:02 PM

and like I said....
in unsafe chloe told Lana not to rush things with jason but she did anyways (or at least offered to). it may have been the same with Lex..

RedPhoenix23

10-15-2006, 10:21 PM

Oh damn... you might wanna change that avatar before a MOD changes it for you. Don't get me wrong, it's funny as hell but them is the rules.

In Unsafe Chloe uses her words like a big girl and gives real advice. In Wither Chloe is just as much of an idiot as Clark is. JUST FREAKING TELL HER!!! How can Lana make an informed decision if she doesn't know THE FACTS. Don't get me wrong, I like that she didn't tell her since I am a Lexana, lol. But that doesn't absolve everyone for just assuming Lana should be pyschic. :mad: It's stupid and NOT what a real freind would do.

GooN

10-16-2006, 08:05 AM

chloe said lex wasn't her first or any choice of men that lana should be with right? so she told her what she thinks of him basically, but also gave good advice by saying she should take a chance or whatever if she wants to.
Now Lana shouldnt be so trusting, especially knowing that it is a problem of hers, and Chloe should have informed her about some of Lex's wrongdoings....just to say it so that she can not feel bad if Lex screws her over.

They both ****ed up, but it happens. 1.

President_Luthor

10-16-2006, 08:54 AM

Chloe wasn't necessarily wrong, or being a "bad" friend ..... but she does have a greater understanding of what Lex is capable of. I'm sure a lot of her reluctance to be completely frank has something to do with her -ahem- kryptonian secret knowledge (and I can see this as being the grounds for Lana and Chloe not being friends by series' end) ... but we're not at that final stage yet.

Chloe's not too sure if being with Jimmy is actually the right thing for her, too and I'd agree with what other posters have said: that her advice could also be seen as her giving herself a chance and/or permission to take a risk ie practise what you preach. I think a Chloe who wasn't getting involved with anyone would have told Lana that maybe you should slow down.

It makes sense that they aren't as close as they might have been in Smallville High (though they were still roomies at Met U.), but I don't believe they're not friends. Was Lana irritated that Chloe was sympathizing with Clark during the break-up? I'm just trying to figure out if that tension is what is being cited as cause for them "not being friends".

Maybe they wrote this scene to make the point that Lana is not as close to Chloe as they once were. If we take it from Lana's viewpoint ... maybe she was hoping Chloe would reaffirm her own misgivings about rushing into Luthor arms so quickly -- which Chloe didn't do, so Lana had to make her own choice (and we all know she's not the best in the good judgment department). Lana fans could say that Chloe - knowing that Lana is not that good at character judgment (look at her track record!) - she should have told her to pack up her belongings and get out Luthor's house.

It is ambiguous, and I think TPTB did that on purpose. I can see how Chloe not telling Lana about Clark's secret would be a friendship-killer in the end. Lana can't be really mad at Chloe if Lexana goes down the drain because, ultimately, Lana is an adult and does make her own choices. Chloe can't be there to save her bacon every single day (since she's busy enough doing that for Clark! :lol: )

This was one situation where it would have been better for Chloe to stick her nose into Lana's business, but is it her place to do that, now that they've all chosen their own paths?

Interesting ...

myankskent

10-16-2006, 04:51 PM

Originally posted by D.M.A.
but the question isn't if the advise was bad,it was if her advise was uncharacteristic.Meanin diff from chloe persona and imo it wasn't,this is exactly how we've come to expect from chloe.Now if it was lois then maybe I'd agree fully,but I've stated the advise could be looked at as both bad/good.But the thread question wasn't if it was,but more of is this what to expect from chloe compared to her past interactions,and I say yes.I mean yes u've made it clear that if it was u u would have told all u know,but it doesn't ask what would u do.What I'm sayin and others have too is ur lookin at this from ur own point of view and faultin a character for sumthin we all should expect to see from her.If she would have been this way in the past then yea,but she did nothin out the ordinary which is where I think u have things confused.Thats what I was statin,ur own comment says the thread ask if it was uncharacteristic(Meanin sumthin she wouldn't normally do),and I say no.R u tellin me that chloe would have spilled it all about lex before in prior seasons,we all kno lois would.But chloe...I think her actions were common,not sayin the best since that can be argued but common for her character

Ok, first of all, this situation is entirely different from anything that we have seen before. This time, Lana went to Chloe for advice so there is nothing that we can compare it to in terms of Chloe spilling the beans to Lana about Lex. That being said, we can indeed compare Chloe's advice to Lana to Chloe's advice to Clark. With Clark, Chloe was constantly giving Clark facts and opinions on what she knew and what she had witnessed all throughout season 5, and for that matter, she has been doing this all throughout the series with all of the characters. So when it comes down to it, if Chloe is going to give Clark this kind of advice along with other characters in the past, including Lana, it is uncharacteristic of her to not give that same type of advice to Lana.

Originally posted by All about Clark
OK, I will have to second this one. Sorry myankskent.

The bottom line is, Chloe has to talk to Lana in a way that she will actually listen to, because Lana has shown she is famous for getting pissed off and ignoring everything that was said. Lana doesn't deserve for Chloe to combat Lana on this issue. You can't force people to listen. You can't force them to take your advice. Besides, the way I see it, is that by Lana living with Lex she has already accepted that sex would be next. Lana made that choice already, leaving Chloe behind in the process. Chloe is not one to write off Lana, but there is no reason for Chloe to go overboard to protect her.

Ok, you and Snarkmaster are entitled to your opinions and that's fine. But in response to this post, I can't understand how you can go from Chloe giving Lana facts about Lex to Chloe forcing Lana to listen. Lana is the one coming to her, there is no forcing involved here and very little effort that Chloe had to give to pass along a little info to Lana. And regardless of what you say about Lana having made the choice already, you are wrong about that and canon tells you that. Lana was sleeping in another room at the mansion so apparently she hadn't made that choice. She went to Chloe for some advice and from what I took out of the conversation, Lana used Chloe's advice to make her decision. Sure Chloe didn't tell Lana to go sleep with Lex, but she did suggest that she grow some fins and dive in instead of blaming her trust issues on other people. Again, I don't consider it going overboard for Chloe to open her mouth a few times about Lex during a conversation that Lana initiated, one, and during a conversation where Lana was interested in hearing Chloe's honest opinion.

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
Oh damn... you might wanna change that avatar before a MOD changes it for you. Don't get me wrong, it's funny as hell but them is the rules.

In Unsafe Chloe uses her words like a big girl and gives real advice. In Wither Chloe is just as much of an idiot as Clark is. JUST FREAKING TELL HER!!! How can Lana make an informed decision if she doesn't know THE FACTS. Don't get me wrong, I like that she didn't tell her since I am a Lexana, lol. But that doesn't absolve everyone for just assuming Lana should be pyschic. :mad: It's stupid and NOT what a real freind would do.

Thanks RP. It's nice that we agree on something with this show since you are a lexana fan and I am not.:)

MBCorp

10-16-2006, 04:59 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Ok, you and Snarkmaster are entitled to your opinions and that's fine. But in response to this post, I can't understand how you can go from Chloe giving Lana facts about Lex to Chloe forcing Lana to listen. Lana is the one coming to her, there is no forcing involved here and very little effort that Chloe had to give to pass along a little info to Lana. And regardless of what you say about Lana having made the choice already, you are wrong about that and canon tells you that. Lana was sleeping in another room at the mansion so apparently she hadn't made that choice. She went to Chloe for some advice and from what I took out of the conversation, Lana used Chloe's advice to make her decision. Sure Chloe didn't tell Lana to go sleep with Lex, but she did suggest that she grow some fins and dive in instead of blaming her trust issues on other people. Again, I don't consider it going overboard for Chloe to open her mouth a few times about Lex during a conversation that Lana initiated, one, and during a conversation where Lana was interested in hearing Chloe's honest opinion.

I have to agree with this...and Lana was discussing the subject of trusting people, well, why didn't Chloe give her some reasons for not trusting Lex? What's the use of keeping Lana in the dark in this situation? Lex is dangerous, Chloe knows he's dangerous, and yet she (and Clark too, for that matter) keep Lana in the dark about it.

LolaDane

10-16-2006, 05:56 PM

I don't think Chloe's advice was sound. If I were Chloe, I would've advised Lana to take a break from the relationship scene for a while. Considering how her last two relationships (with Jason & Clark) were such horrendous disasters that FEMA was practically put on alert, I would have suggested that she take a step back, take some time for herself, and re-evaluate her life and avoid rebound relationships at all costs.

But of course, the writers were intent on using Chloe to facilitate the road to Lexana so we got the scene that we got. While not as blatant as having Chloe put on a cheerleading outfit and be all "Rah, rah, Lexana!" the writers' intent to push the Lexana angle was as clear as day.

SnarkMasterJ

10-16-2006, 06:29 PM

The last thing I'll say is that Chloe's relationship with Clark is not comparable to her relationship with Lana. Different dynamics, different circumstances. And especially considering the events of last season, I don't consider Chloe and Lana's friendship anywhere near where it's been in the past, and therefore, I don't expect Chloe to go full-on, in-your-face honest with Lana because she simply has no reason to be. She's an objective person in Lana's life giving objective advice.

D.M.A.

10-16-2006, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by LolaDane
I don't think Chloe's advice was sound. If I were Chloe, I would've advised Lana to take a break from the relationship scene for a while. Considering how her last two relationships (with Jason & Clark) were such horrendous disasters that FEMA was practically put on alert, I would have suggested that she take a step back, take some time for herself, and re-evaluate her life and avoid rebound relationships at all costs.

But of course, the writers were intent on using Chloe to facilitate the road to Lexana so we got the scene that we got. While not as blatant as having Chloe put on a cheerleading outfit and be all "Rah, rah, Lexana!" the writers' intent to push the Lexana angle was as clear as day.
agree,if anythin was the be said it should have been to take a break,not dish all her dirt on lex.And while I agree myankskent that chloe has done alot for clark in the past(Mainly in s5),she's never been that way wit lana.Ppl forget that these 2 were never really that close,her & clark r best friends where as her and lana were more like associates.She's never been the 1 to just give it to lana straight,clark yes but not lana.So imo she acted as normal towards lana,by tellin her that it was her choice to make and that she may have to take a chance sumtime.Now if she been upfront wit lana before about lex and then gave this advise I would completely agree,but she has never told about lex doings.But I agree wit this quote tho,if anythin lana should take a break from the relationships and avoid bein a rebound.But of course tptb want her character to always look like she needs sumthin,whether its advise/place to live/bf etc...

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
The last thing I'll say is that Chloe's relationship with Clark is not comparable to her relationship with Lana. Different dynamics, different circumstances. And especially considering the events of last season, I don't consider Chloe and Lana's friendship anywhere near where it's been in the past, and therefore, I don't expect Chloe to go full-on, in-your-face honest with Lana because she simply has no reason to be. She's an objective person in Lana's life giving objective advice.
agree,now if it was clark in the situation and chloe gave sumwhat bad advise then yea it would be uncharacteristic of her.But not wit lana,they were never that close to begin wit and over the past 2 seasons(Really 3,they haven't been close since chloe found out about clark at the end of s2)they've been driftin apart.Yes they lived together for awhile but their relationship was thru clark,now that clana is no more their relationship is strained.Cause chlark r best friends,and lana knows how clex feels about each other yet she got involved anyways.So I agree the dynamic of chloe/lana relationship isn't compareable to chlark.

myankskent

10-16-2006, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
The last thing I'll say is that Chloe's relationship with Clark is not comparable to her relationship with Lana. Different dynamics, different circumstances. And especially considering the events of last season, I don't consider Chloe and Lana's friendship anywhere near where it's been in the past, and therefore, I don't expect Chloe to go full-on, in-your-face honest with Lana because she simply has no reason to be. She's an objective person in Lana's life giving objective advice.

Objective people don't go to their friend's boyfriend and threaten them if they hurt their friend, especially if I am going to buy into the fact that Chloe and Lana are not that close.

Sweetie

10-16-2006, 07:00 PM

I voted no because if I was Chloé I would have tell Lana to think carefully about her previous relationships that ended badly and she could take a break from romance for a while.But,I know that she won't listen to that advice either because it was so clear from the way she was with Lex that she had sex on her mind way before last night.I think that scene was really not necessary.Lana hardly talk to Chloé now and on this episode she comes to her for advices.It was a litttle bit weird:\

smallvillerocks45

10-16-2006, 07:12 PM

I don't think that Chloe's advice was all that uncharacteristic at all- she basically did the same thing with Clark. She knew Clark was in love with Lana, but also realized that neither of them would be happy with such a huge secret in the middle. Yet, she did not tell Clark to break up with Lana.

(Back to the point)...Anyway, it's not like Chloe told Lana to sleep with Lex, she just basically told her that "Lana" has to do what makes "Lana" happy. If it's being intimate with Lex that makes her happy, then that's what it is, but Chloe did not tell her to be with him. In fact, she made it clear that if she had a choice, Lex wouldn't even be on her list. That sounds like Chloe to me.

(By the way, I accidentally voted no...but I meant to vote yes...sorry about that. Thank goodness it wasn't a real election...):eek:

All about Clark

10-16-2006, 09:15 PM

I agree Sweetie, it was a weird scene and might have been better without it. We did at least get Chloe telling Lana that Lex was nothing more than a preditor. Not to mention Lana knows all about Lex's track record with women.

My take on the reason for the scene, is that Lana moved in with Lex so quickly and maybe didn't realize that a man would expect sex living under the same roof, I mean, after all, they already slept on the couch together, obviously the bed would be next. So what did Lana really hope to gain? Did Lana want Chloe to pity her because she screwed up moving in with him. It seems to me her reaction or desire was to let someone know she might have made a mistake moving in and what it meant.

And how could Chloe feasibly give dirt on Lex at this point. Lana has already boxed herself in. Lana would also never accept Chloe's dirt without proof and Chloe doesn't have it without Clark. Chloe also can't explain how Clark knows what he knows without telling how Clark come to know the things he knows about Lex.

I mean look at this way, Chloe says "Lana, Lex did those experiments to Victor without his consent". Lana would say, I don't believe you, it was Dr. Creed. Lex would never do that. Why would you say that? or "Lana, Lex kidnapped AC to learn his secret for swimming so fast". Lana would say, why would you say the Lex kidnapped, what proof do you have. The bottom line is, Chloe really has no proof or she would be giving it to the authorities. And Clark can't go to the authorities because they wouldn't believe him without knowing how he came to that knowledge.

And really, why would anyone think that Chloe and Lana are close, I mean they both wanted the same man. How close can they be? Lana left Chloe behind and didn't try to find a room for them to share. I'm sorry, I can not conceivable come up with a reason why Chloe would go where myankskent and others are suggesting.

dance-shop-snark

10-16-2006, 09:29 PM

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
Oh damn... you might wanna change that avatar before a MOD changes it for you. Don't get me wrong, it's funny as hell but them is the rules.

In Unsafe Chloe uses her words like a big girl and gives real advice. In Wither Chloe is just as much of an idiot as Clark is. JUST FREAKING TELL HER!!! How can Lana make an informed decision if she doesn't know THE FACTS. Don't get me wrong, I like that she didn't tell her since I am a Lexana, lol. But that doesn't absolve everyone for just assuming Lana should be pyschic. :mad: It's stupid and NOT what a real freind would do.

yes but that wasn't my point.
I just mean that Even in unsafe when she gave Lana advice (yes I'll admit it was a better answer then in wither)
Lana still went to jason and offered her self to him if anyone remembers that.

And so even if Chloe gave Lana more advice in the way of
"Lex is evil you can't trust him it's not a good idea"
history shows (and Lana seems to be a creature of habit), that she probably would have done it anyways.

Plus Lana does know the facts about LEx to an extent where she sould have been smarter.

And as others have said Chloe's advice in this instance is advice a "not as good friend" would give where as in Unsafe she was closer to lana.

cmm

10-16-2006, 09:42 PM

Originally posted by dance-shop-snark
yes but that wasn't my point.
I just mean that Even in unsafe when she gave Lana advice (yes I'll admit it was a better answer then in wither)
Lana still went to jason and offered her self to him if anyone remembers that.

And so even if Chloe gave Lana more advice in the way of
"Lex is evil you can't trust him it's not a good idea"
history shows (and Lana seems to be a creature of habit), that she probably would have done it anyways.

Plus Lana does know the facts about LEx to an extent where she sould have been smarter.

And as others have said Chloe's advice in this instance is advice a "not as good friend" would give where as in Unsafe she was closer to lana.

totally agree with every word. It happens each time with lana you tell her something she does the exact opposite. What gets me too is that even when someone tells her about lex she tells them they're wrong so really what is the point. I distinctly remember Cyborg guy telling her about lex and about how bad he is and she told him you gotta be mistaken lex wouldnt' do that. To me lana needs to become one of lex's victims in order for her to see.

SnarkMasterJ

10-16-2006, 09:53 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Objective people don't go to their friend's boyfriend and threaten them if they hurt their friend, especially if I am going to buy into the fact that Chloe and Lana are not that close.

Um...look at what I said. It was meant to imply that, given what happened with Chloe and Lana last season AFTER she went to Lex, I don't buy them being that close anymore. Too much has happened, and their relational dynamic has changed.

SacredK

10-16-2006, 09:58 PM

Chloe was a good friend in my opinion. She did tell Lana that Lex is not on her list of boyfriend material, in a way that's like a redlight saying to Lana maybe you might want to choose someone else. If I re-call, Chloe never told Lana to go with Lex. She said to grow fins and dive it. Lex was not part of that statement. :)

lexs&os

10-16-2006, 11:24 PM

Lana made her own choice, that's that. I agree, Chloe was a good friend. Told Lana her feelings about it, Lana acknowledged Chloe's feelings, and Lana made her own decision.

RedPhoenix23

10-16-2006, 11:57 PM

There's a time for feelings and a time for FACTS. Chloe was a horrible freind in this scene.

ma200

10-17-2006, 12:13 AM

It was bad advice but you know what? Lana didn't have to listen to her. I ask for advice every now and then, sometimes I listen and sometimes I don't.

CK&CK

10-17-2006, 01:27 AM

Originally posted by ma200
It was bad advice but you know what? Lana didn't have to listen to her. I ask for advice every now and then, sometimes I listen and sometimes I don't.

To me it was actually good advice, along with bad writting, because obviously Chloe could have come up with somthing on Lex that wouldn't put Clark's secret at risk. But they want this story arch to continue......so there it is. And again, it was good advice.....advice which Chloe herself is trying to follow.

And I agree with all who say that LANA DIDN'T HAVE TO LISTEN TO HER!

RedPhoenix23

10-17-2006, 04:15 AM

Oh gosh, that's stretching it don't you think? Was Chloe wrong to not tell Lana the facts? No! Lana was dumb because she listened! :rolleyes:

Originally posted by dance-shop-snark
yes but that wasn't my point.
I just mean that Even in unsafe when she gave Lana advice (yes I'll admit it was a better answer then in wither)
Lana still went to jason and offered her self to him if anyone remembers that.

And so even if Chloe gave Lana more advice in the way of
"Lex is evil you can't trust him it's not a good idea"
history shows (and Lana seems to be a creature of habit), that she probably would have done it anyways.

Plus Lana does know the facts about LEx to an extent where she sould have been smarter.

And as others have said Chloe's advice in this instance is advice a "not as good friend" would give where as in Unsafe she was closer to lana.

No, it just shows nobody is willing to give Lana the facts about ANYTHING. Even when she flat out asks!! This wasn't a time for Chloe to blather on about "feelings" it was time for her dish about the cold hard truth anything less makes Chloe look like a horrible freind.

Again no, Lana doesn't know the facts about "Lex to an extent". The only thing bad that Lana knows about Lex was the season 4 Commencement nonsense and that caused a pretty big rift in their freindship for awhile. It takes a long time for it to heal. Lana doesn't even refer to Lex as her freind again until Lockdown after he gets shot saving her life. If that's not a "lookie at what a good person I am" then nothing is. :lol:

Plus, while WE know Isobel killed GT, Lexana don't. Lana is apparently OKAY with the fact that Lex covers up a murder for her. Just because she looks upset when looking at the paper means she isn't. Afterall, she could still go to the cops and confess all. Have them send a CSI-ish team to sweep her apartment and investigate GT's body again and show them the paper with Lex's handwriting proving there was indeed a cover up. But she doesn't, does she? Lana can't be TOO MAD at Lex for very long for something she was willing to go along with. That's a bit hypocritical, don't you think? :p ;)

You gotta remember what we (and Chloe/Clark) know about Lex and what Lana knows are two totally different things. We as well as Chlark know Lex was capable of destroying the oceans for a quick buck, torturing AC for trying to stop him and calling him a tool, sending Krypto-Freaks to kidnap her and the Kents in order to test Clark, the fact that Lex did in fact do the horrible things to Cyborg/Victor Stone and not some rogue doctor - Lana flat out tells Victor Stone that she can't believe Lex would have anything to do with that!!!!

Chloe had the chance to tell her these facts but choose to make the conversation about herself and say outloud her motivations for choosing Jimmy (is still Jimmy or is it James now, :lol: ) instead of still waiting for Clark. Chloe doesn't even need to tell her ALL of the facts, any ONE of the above would likely be enough to end their relationship. But nope, it's better to be like Clark and be okay with the fact that she lives with and most likely eventually have sex with this man than take the two seconds to be honest. Jeesh, with freinds like these, who needs enemies? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

For god's sake, nobody even bothered to tell Lana that Lex didn't have a mental breakdown - Lionel was having his scotch dosed with crazy pills.

HalJordan4184

10-17-2006, 04:28 AM

You're sooo right, I mean, obviously if she didn't believe the people it HAPPENED TO, she's gonnajump when Clark or CHloe tells her....

Kryptonian-Ronin

10-17-2006, 06:10 AM

Did Chloe do the "right thing" ?
Shoudl she have warned Lana ?

Hasn't Lana been warned before, over and over? YES.
Did she trust lex enough to give him the Kryptonina artifact? NO.
Did she not see Lex when he had powers BEFORE being possesed by Zod and see the "power trip" look on his face? YES.

Lana KNOWS what Lex is, even if she doesn't care to admit it to herself.

Now, was Chloe being a friend?
NO.
A true friend would rather LOSE a friend than give advice they know to be wrong, advice that they know will only damage the other person.

Lana: I am courious about drugs, heroin, pcp, that sort of thing, but I am hung up on the fact that they are bad for me.
Chloe: You knwo I don't do drugs or take them and disagree with being doing them, but at a certain point you just got find out for yourself and DIVE IN !!

WTF kind of advice is that ?!?!

Chloe: Lex has done some horrible things, things that YOU know of and things that you don't, where there is smoke, there is fire.
You wanna get burnt then knock yourself out, just realise that I willbe there to say I TOLD YOU SO BIOTCH !!

:)

RedPhoenix23

10-17-2006, 07:04 AM

Lana has NOT been warned about Lex using FACTS. Just Chloe crying "He's a predator!" Care to elaborate Chloe? Oh, I forgot Lana yelled at her, poor thing. What was Chloe's excuse in Wither? Well, based on your drug analogy at least kinda we agree she had none, lol.

LOL, I don't know what "power trip" face you are talking about. Lex with powers was very good to Lana in Vessal - he even told her that he'd alway love her. Clark on the other hand, got a power trip face but let's see... wasn't that AFTER finding out Clark was willing to KILL HIM? In what world are you nice to your would be murderer? Especially when they DON'T DENY IT?

Kryptonian-Ronin

10-17-2006, 07:07 AM

Some see what is there, other's see what they want to see.

This is one of those case for Lana.
Actually, in all her relationships, that has been the case.

myankskent

10-17-2006, 08:57 AM

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Um...look at what I said. It was meant to imply that, given what happened with Chloe and Lana last season AFTER she went to Lex, I don't buy them being that close anymore. Too much has happened, and their relational dynamic has changed.

So after Lana and Chloe talked in Fragile, that is where you are going to draw the line on their friendship and say that Chloe NOW is just an objective person when it comes to Lana? That's fine, but there's still the problem of Lana going to Chloe for advice. Here's the thing SnarkMaster and this is something that you are just not understanding in my posts, while I'm sure there are things that I don't understand with your posts as you have called me out on. If Chloe was going to be objective and if Chloe is afraid of getting yelled at by Lana if she gives her honest opinion about Lex, which I think is ridiculous since Chloe is a big girl, then don't you think the better thing to say when Lana came to her for advice is "You know what Lana? I don't think that I'm the person that you should be talking to about this because we have had a lot of disagreements in the past. We just don't see eye to eye on anything when it comes to Lex." Then if Lana asked for reasons why Chloe felt that way, Chloe could give them or the conversation would end right there. If Chloe was objective and didn't want to get involved, that's what she should've said instead of going along with the conversation and failing to mention how she really feels about Lex by giving facts while a confused Lana already had doubts in her mind about her relationship with Lex. This is why I say that this "closeness" between Chloe and Lana is not an issue at all in terms of this discussion. It would've been an issue had Chloe explained to Lana why she was not the person to get advice from or if Chloe had decided not to talk to Lana in the first place.

As a result of everything that I have said, to me, Chloe didn't show a backbone in that scene one way or the other. She should've either shown a backbone by saying that her feelings were hurt the last time that they spoke about this and she didn't want to get involved again because Lana just doesn't listen or she should've shown a backbone by giving Lana all of the facts on Lex. Instead, Chloe basically told Lana to take a chance and dive in. Not good, IMO.

And as far as saying that it is pointless for Chloe to tell Lana things about Lex because she wouldn't believe her, who cares what Lana believes? Again, Lana is coming to Chloe for advice and if she doesn't like what she hears, she could get up and leave! Lana can refute every single statement that Chloe makes about Lex and if she did that, then at least Chloe looks like the golden girl after that conversation and Lana looks like a pile of you know what.

And finally, when looking at Chloe's advice to Lana when she told her to grow some fins and dive in, how Chloe could EVER give Lana that kind of advice when dealing with a Luthor is beyond me. Does Chloe not remember when she grew some fins and dove in with Lionel? The only reason why Chloe is still around to talk about it is because Lionel was miraculously a changed man after he was healed by Clark in prison, or else he probably would've arranged to have her killed again. I don't care if "grow some fins and dive in" didn't mean that Lana should have sex with Lex, the advice means dive in to some degree with this relationship, which is always a dangerous thing if the person you are diving in with is a Luthor. This, in particular, makes Chloe look very bad by giving this kind of advice and very uncharacteristic of her since she is a nice girl who shouldn't want to see anyone get hurt or make the same mistakes that she did. She should know better than anyone that diving in with the Luthors can only lead to disaster, or death as should've been the case with her in season 3 and Lana once in Reckoning.

President_Luthor

10-17-2006, 09:56 AM

I think the seeds of the end of Lana and Chloe's friendship have been sown, and while this isn't the first -or last- time the issue of trust will lead to that fall, I think this is a moment that Lana may cite as a turning point ie we were friends, why didn't you look out for me etc. (assuming TPTB stick to continuity - yeah, I know :rolleyes: ), with Chloe not telling her about Clark's secret as the pivotal breaking point.

Regardless of how one may feel about Lana ... the case can be made that a good friend would tell another friend when they're making a big mistake, no matter how much it may hurt them on the surface. The whole Lexana crisis would pale in comparison to the eventual revelation that Chloe knew about Clark's secret when Lana committed herself to a relationship with Clark. It's not like Chloe doesn't know anything about Luthor intentions, as she has been a victim of their plotting.

Chloe has no intention of hurting or wilfully leading Lana into trouble, but circumstances (like keeping Clark's secret) have put her in the awkward position of being less reliable to one friend, for the sake of keeping the confidence to another friend.

Should she have stopped Lana from shacking up with Lex? Yes, of course, it makes sense that a friend would do that.

Could she have done so? Maybe -- but Lana would either accept Chloe's evidence of how bad Lex could be as fact, or dismiss the charges outright. Lana - who I think is way too naive not to realize that Lex has had a hand in many crises in town - didn't have the opportunity to assess all the facts (and who could be more objective in presenting them than Chloe the reporter? She's a better source than Clark, who can hardly be as objective about Lex, with their own trust baggage).

Lana should wake up and smell the Luthor coffee before it's too late (we know in all likelihood she won't) ... but I think this scene shows that Chloe will not be entirely blameless when her friendship with Lana comes to an end.

There will be "two" slices of humble pie served up when it happens.

Rhoda123

10-17-2006, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by RedPhoenix23
There's a time for feelings and a time for FACTS. Chloe was a horrible freind in this scene.

Give me a break.. any other time that Chloe tried to help Lana concerning Lex, Lana chewed her out.. Lana can't get mad at anyone.. cause she is downright crappy as a friend.

michaelkent

10-17-2006, 11:36 AM

I hope my words are not too redundant because I have not read all the comments on this thread. I submit that Chloe gave the best answer to Lana given the history of her dealings with Lana, Clark, and Lex. For instance:

- Chloe has already warned Lana about Lex before (i.e.: he is a predator, I do not even have him on my list of potential guys to be with, Lana knows about Chloe confronting Lex) In other words Lana is not ignorant of what Chloe's beliefs are about Lex.

- The specifics she could tell Lana about Lex would come down to a 'he said/she said' argument. Yes, Chloe could go into all kind of specifics and Lex (being the smooth liar and manipulator he is) would most likely put a convincing spin on those same events. If Chloe was simply interested in hearing herself talk or talking at Lana instead of talking with her, then she could have blathered out a string of examples about Lex. But what would be the purpose? The question is, does Lana trust her enough to believe her or is she already under Lex's spell? Lana has even told Chloe that she will not be Lex's prey. That sounds like a young woman who is confident about her own ability to control her situation (although she is being incredibly foolish)

- The distance between Lana and Chloe at this point is due to Lana's decisions, not Chloe's. I believe that Lana is quite angry with Clark right now although she avoids arguing with him. Lana knows that Chloe and Clark are close friends, so I would submit her lack of trust with Clark is at least partially transferred over to her relationship with Chloe.

- Although I'm not a Lana fan in the least, I can understand why she is upset with Clark. He never told her the truth about himself (except for the time he went back into the past and saved her from death which then triggered his pa's demise) and she has sensed he is hiding things from her. Having been married for 26 years to the same woman, I assure you that keeping important secrets from the one you love will kill a relationship. It seems that Clark and Lana never really developed a close friendship (like Clark has with Chloe) before jumping into the sack. Like many young women, she probably gave Clark her most intimate embrace based on her feelings for him and the fact that he said he has always loved her. Then several months later after emotionally and physically withdrawing from her, Clark lowers the boom and says he doesn't love her anymore. There is no explanation why on his part, merely his profession that he doesn't love her. No wonder she is upset. Having sex with someone is not simply a physical act like having a drink of water.

- Chloe's advice treated Lana as a rational adult. I suggest that a reasonable intrepretation of her words and message were: you know how I feel and think about Lex but if you can live with all you know about him and still want to try a relationship with him, then there comes a time when you have to take a risk (This came after Lana stated how she felt other people in her life have not been honest with her and made her wary of trusting anyone). Chloe's advice in no way recommended Lana seduce Lex, strip in front of him, and get it on with him. If anything Chloe misjudged her friend's maturity. Lana seems to have a problem separating the development a close relationship with a man and having sex with him. Maybe it's because she doesn't feel truly loved by anyone and she uses sex to fill that void. I don't claim to know, but Chloe is not responsible for Lana's decisions about her love and sex life.

- I further suggest that Chloe is attempting to keep the door open to remain a friend with Lana. Chloe doesn't trust Lex (which Lana knows), but she doesn't want to so alienate herself from Lana that their friendship is totally destroyed (this is the way it stands between Lana and Clark at this time). Chloe is rightfully concerned that Lex will use Lana and then throw her away when he's had his fun. Chloe is consistently shown as caring about other people more than herself (Clark has said this), and given the circumstances this was the best way to continue to help Lana.

- Chloe's advice to Lana has zip to do with her feelings and relationship with Jimmy. Chloe is rightfully tired of waiting for Clark to notice her as more than a best friend. It has been over six years for heaven's sake, and Clark has had romantic interludes with various young women! Meanwhile, Chloe is growing up and taking a mature view of her relationship with Clark. Why keep waiting and torturing yourself for someone who does not share your feelings? She takes an adult approach by remaining Clark's friend and confidant, but at age 19 or 20 she also looks around for a guy who will return her feelings (not just any guy but one she is attracted to).

- Lastly, I submit that posters who believe Chloe has given Lana bad advice or let Lana down as a friend, do not understand the difference between being a 'helper' and trying to 'rescue' someone. After years of being in therapy, I'm thankful that I was introduced to this concept by a professsional in the realm of psychology and psychiatry. A helper does not try to solve someone's problem, but attempts to give advice when requested or needed and assist someone in making his/her decision. Helpers do not generally (unless in a life or death crisis) tell others exactly what to do, because the parties who need assistance must own their decisions and be responsible for the outcomes. A rescuer attempts to claim others problems as their own and (although well-intended) lay out a plan of action for the other person, whether or not it is requested. The ultimate problem with this approach, is the rescuer often ends up being blamed by the person he/she assisted if the solution doesn't work as planned. The assisted party never learns to take responsibility for the decisions because the solution was given to or imposed on him/her. CHLOE IS A HELPER, NOT A RESCUER.

mobiusklein

10-17-2006, 11:51 AM

Thank you, michaelkent. Lana KNOWS that Chloe doesn't like Lex and thinks he's bad for her therefore if she truly thought Chloe's opinion mattered she wouldn't have to ask her AGAIN.

Kryptonian-Ronin

10-17-2006, 12:00 PM

I think the fact that Lana went to Chloe, even knowing what Chloe thinks of Lex, says that she, deep down, needed a way out, wants a way out, why else whoudl she want advice from someone that, in theory, should have told her, like she has before, run, run like the wind.

Maybe, in her subconsious, Lana went to Chloe WANTING CHloe to tell her NOT to get involved.

But, on a whole, I have to agree with michaelhkent's view, not completely, but mostly.

As for the secrets part, while secrets destroy relationships, its up to the person who has the secret to come forth and NOT up to the other to pressure them.

We all know how well pressuring people works out.

mobiusklein

10-17-2006, 12:09 PM

The thing is that Lana is someone who thought Chloe & Clark were up to no good and wanted to snuff Lex then ratted on them. I wouldn't be so gungho about saying Lex evil again on the off chance she'd change her mind.

Kryptonian-Ronin

10-17-2006, 12:12 PM

Originally posted by mobiusklein
The thing is that Lana is someone who thought Chloe & Clark were up to no good and wanted to snuff Lex then ratted on them. I wouldn't be so gungho about saying Lex evil again on the off chance she'd change her mind.

A valid point, certainly Clark has saved her more than we can remember, to the point of "dying" in front of her, and yet...she didn't give him (or Chloe) the benefit of the doubt, did she ?

chlarkfan333

10-17-2006, 01:25 PM

Well since AlMiles are so hell-bent on playing out Lexana, if Chloe had divulged everything gory detail to Lana one of two things would have happened - Lana would have realised she would be getting in bed with the devil and opted against it OR she would have ignored the info (or be conviced otherwise by Lex) and Lexana would have happened anyway. If the latter were to occur, Lana would look even worse, which is why the scene was written the way it was, IMO. The first as I said they aren't willing to do apparently since they want to play Lexana so badly.

Fly by guy

10-17-2006, 01:51 PM

After Chloe's statement of Lex not being her first choice she should have given a COUPLE of reasons why. I think the words, "ask Lex who sent the wonder twins and matchlight to the farm in Mortal" would have been an excellant start.

Chloe is not Lana's keeper, but her friend and as such should make sure that Lana has the facts necessary to make an informed decision. But that would never happen on SV. The way she has been written since Splinter, you could set her on fire and hand her gas, tell her it's water, and watch her smile in relief.
IMO, of course, she would already know what a completely bad man Lex is and yes, people do turn to the worst when they've been deeply hurt, but would she turn to Lex knowing that he kills, imprisons, and (almost forgot) keeps secrets and tells lies.

Makes ya want to bring him home to meet your sister, uh?

RobynAdele0406

10-17-2006, 02:53 PM

I keep watching this scene over and over again, and I can't seem to see what the big deal is. Lana comes into the room and says, to some effect, that Clark's ghost is following her around in this new relationship. It's obvious that Lex and Lana aren't just BFF, they're dating already. What do you expect Chloe to say to someone who is already in kneedeep?

No matter what you guys say, it does not change the fact that Lana ALREADY KNOWS that Lex is not an innocent little billionaire. She knows that he's had a "revolving door" of lovers, yet she sleeps with him. She KNOWS that he's a bad guy, that much was evident in the beginning of Season 5 when she had an obvious dislike for Lex. She is not stupid, she is not blind, she knows enough about Lex to make her own damn decisions. She went to Chloe for advice, Chloe gave her advice, and I sure as hell don't see Lana complaining. I actually see Lana happier than she's ever been. She was smiling, joking, LAUGHING with Lex. I don't see Lex hurting Lana, unlike C.K. who hurt her on a daily basis.

So if ya'll want to blame Chloe for giving "bad advice", that's fine. But I seriously doubt that when things with Lex go sour, that Lana's gonna go to Chloe and say "DAMN YOU FOR TELLING ME TO GROW FINS, YOU SUCK CHLOE!"

Seems like Chloe's damned if she does, damned if she don't. People complain that she's the brains behind Clark, always giving him advice, she gives too much advice, blah blah blah. But when she doesn't exactly spout the Bible according to Lex Luthor to Lana, people complain about this as well. Boggles my mind.

D.M.A.

10-17-2006, 03:02 PM

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
I keep watching this scene over and over again, and I can't seem to see what the big deal is. Lana comes into the room and says, to some effect, that Clark's ghost is following her around in this new relationship. It's obvious that Lex and Lana aren't just BFF, they're dating already. What do you expect Chloe to say to someone who is already in kneedeep?

No matter what you guys say, it does not change the fact that Lana ALREADY KNOWS that Lex is not an innocent little billionaire. She knows that he's had a "revolving door" of lovers, yet she sleeps with him. She KNOWS that he's a bad guy, that much was evident in the beginning of Season 5 when she had an obvious dislike for Lex. She is not stupid, she is not blind, she knows enough about Lex to make her own damn decisions. She went to Chloe for advice, Chloe gave her advice, and I sure as hell don't see Lana complaining. I actually see Lana happier than she's ever been. She was smiling, joking, LAUGHING with Lex. I don't see Lex hurting Lana, unlike C.K. who hurt her on a daily basis.

So if ya'll want to blame Chloe for giving "bad advice", that's fine. But I seriously doubt that when things with Lex go sour, that Lana's gonna go to Chloe and say "DAMN YOU FOR TELLING ME TO GROW FINS, YOU SUCK CHLOE!"

Seems like Chloe's damned if she does, damned if she don't. People complain that she's the brains behind Clark, always giving him advice, she gives too much advice, blah blah blah. But when she doesn't exactly spout the Bible according to Lex Luthor to Lana, people complain about this as well. Boggles my mind.
agree,besides I still don't see how sum think that this was unlike chloe.I would agree if that was her talkin to clark,cause she's always been upfront wit him.But never wit lana,so her actions/advise is expected when dealin wit lana.Jus as lana actions wit lex later on was expected,we pretty much knew no matter what chloe would have said that lana was goin to sleep wit lex.She knew this soon as she came to chloe,cause as she said she makes bad decision/judgement and this was 1 of them.She took what lex said as him askin her for sex,tho he may have slyway been askin he never came out and ask.So she had her mind made up already no matter what chloe said,but imo chloe acted wit lana as she always does.No change,plus I dont see the big deal if everyone is atleast agree that it was still lana decision to sleep wit lex.Then what's the prob,cause chloe has known of their relationship since it started so what's the diff now than in late s5 if its not about lana sleepin wit lex.I jus dont see what the fuss is about

mobiusklein

10-17-2006, 03:20 PM

I think it's just obvious that Lana likes and trusts Lex more than she ever did Chloe. Why should Chloe open her mouth again, have Lana flip on her and badmouth her to Lex and have Lex go up to Chloe and sneer at her? Remember Rosetta where Lana claims Chloe was mean to her because of an oopsie-booboo and Clark yelled at Chloe?

Chloe has to do more, more, more for Lana? Maybe she decided to save her breath for once.

myankskent

10-17-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by michaelkent

- Lastly, I submit that posters who believe Chloe has given Lana bad advice or let Lana down as a friend, do not understand the difference between being a 'helper' and trying to 'rescue' someone. After years of being in therapy, I'm thankful that I was introduced to this concept by a professsional in the realm of psychology and psychiatry. A helper does not try to solve someone's problem, but attempts to give advice when requested or needed and assist someone in making his/her decision. Helpers do not generally (unless in a life or death crisis) tell others exactly what to do, because the parties who need assistance must own their decisions and be responsible for the outcomes. A rescuer attempts to claim others problems as their own and (although well-intended) lay out a plan of action for the other person, whether or not it is requested. The ultimate problem with this approach, is the rescuer often ends up being blamed by the person he/she assisted if the solution doesn't work as planned. The assisted party never learns to take responsibility for the decisions because the solution was given to or imposed on him/her. CHLOE IS A HELPER, NOT A RESCUER.

Now, you say that Chloe is a helper, but I don't understand how it helps Lana to say that she should dive into a relationship with Lex even further. No one is saying that Chloe needs to/has to rescue Lana. What we are saying is that if she is going to participate in a discussion about Lex, given the fact that she knows more about what he has done than Lana does, it would be a wise choice to give Lana information that could influence her final decision. You also say that a helper does not tell someone what to do unless it is a life or death crisis, but don't you think that getting involved with a Luthor even further becomes a life or death crisis? It certainly became that way for Chloe in season 3 and it was that way for Lana in Reckoning. I still don't think that Chloe should "tell" Lana what to do, but she should've given her honest opinion about Lex with facts.

I also keep hearing that Lana bites Chloe's head off when she tries to give advice. Again I say, Lana is the one coming to Chloe for advice this time. I think it makes Chloe out to be a very weak person if she is going to simply keep her mouth shut because she is so afraid that Lana might give her another verbal beating. Chloe has the upper hand in this conversation because Lana came to her. This fact cannot be ignored. The second Lana says anything offensive to Chloe, Chloe would have every right to let her have it because Lana came to her for advice.

Originally posted by D.M.A.
No change,plus I dont see the big deal if everyone is atleast agree that it was still lana decision to sleep wit lex.Then what's the prob,cause chloe has known of their relationship since it started so what's the diff now than in late s5 if its not about lana sleepin wit lex.I jus dont see what the fuss is about

The issue is not that Lana slept with Lex. I know that some people think that Chloe basically told Lana to sleep with Lex and that is absolutely ridiculous. The issue is about Chloe telling Lana to take a chance and dive in further with her relationship with Lex. Sex or no sex, if she does that with Lex, she will be in a bad situation down the road. Now I understand that it was Lana's decision and I agree with that, but unfortunately for Chloe, the second that she agreed to talk to Lana about this and give her advice about it makes Chloe a part of it to some degree. And as far as Chloe knowing about their relationship all this time and not doing anything about it, and then asking why it's such a big deal now that she told Lana nothing, well it's a big deal because she engaged in a conversation with Lana about Lex and offered to give her advice about it. That's what makes this an issue.

And just so I'm clear, I would agree with everyone who says that Chloe said nothing wrong with her advice if Lana was going out with someone who was not dangerous. I would probably be the first one up cheering Chloe on for giving that advice, but not when it involves Lex. Chloe knows the problem is Lex, not Lana's trust issues and how she blames it on other people and that message should've been sent to Lana in some form.

mobiusklein

10-17-2006, 04:02 PM

It's not weak, it's being tired of being treated like crap.

myankskent

10-17-2006, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by mobiusklein
It's not weak, it's being tired of being treated like crap.

So then why talk to Lana in the first place? This idea that Chloe is annoyed that she is being treated like crap doesn't make sense if she is going to agree to talk to her about Lex. Just wash your hands totally from the situation or at least relay those feelings to Lana during the conversation as I said on the last page.

RobynAdele0406

10-17-2006, 04:12 PM

Well, if you look at Chloe's body language and facial expressions at the bottom of the stairwell, she looks both shocked to see Lana there and also very hesitant to invite her up. If someone is asking you for advice, sitting on the doorstep of your home, it would be very rude to say "no, go away." Chloe invited Lana up and gave her the best advice that she felt she could give. Go up 5 or so replies and read what I said: Lana is not stupid nor blind. She knows what Lex is capable of. Chloe does not have to spell that out for her.

Fly by guy

10-17-2006, 04:26 PM

^^^
Lana doesn't know what Lex is capable of. She doesn't know all that Chloe and Clark know. She even tells Victor in Cyborg that Lex has CHANGED. She's right, he's worse. Lana invited Chloe to state her opinion and give advice. I think the advice was sorely lacking for information.
Lana is in the deep end of the pool and Chloe threw her an anvil. It's the thought that counts, uh?

umm

10-17-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
Well, if you look at Chloe's body language and facial expressions at the bottom of the stairwell, she looks both shocked to see Lana there and also very hesitant to invite her up. If someone is asking you for advice, sitting on the doorstep of your home, it would be very rude to say "no, go away." Chloe invited Lana up and gave her the best advice that she felt she could give. Go up 5 or so replies and read what I said: Lana is not stupid nor blind. She knows what Lex is capable of. Chloe does not have to spell that out for her.

Well I guess she does! It seems that Lana, according to some, can't add two and two and realize the truth on her own, it seems that she in deed does need Chloe, Clark, everyone in the known universe, to speel it out for her! And here I was, despite my big dislike of the character, thinking that she was at least capable of doing that much!:confused: :( :o :\

myankskent

10-17-2006, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by umm
Well I guess she does! It seems that Lana, according to some, can't add two and two and realize the truth on her own, it seems that she in deed does need Chloe, Clark, everyone in the known universe, to speel it out for her! And here I was, despite my big dislike of the character, thinking that she was at least capable of doing that much!:confused: :( :o :\

Can we at least agree as to why Chloe knows the truth about Lex? She knows the truth because of her knowledge of Clark's secret and how it relates to how dangerous Lex could be to Clark if he were to ever find out about it. She also received a first hand look at how evil the Luthor's can be after she did what she did with Lionel. Regardless of the reason why Lana doesn't know the truth about Lex, it's quite clear that the writers have chosen to keep her in the dark about most things relating to Lex and the same with Clark.

And don't even get me started on Clark. For a long time, he insisted that Lex wasn't like Lionel even with some proof of how bad Lex was.

President_Luthor

10-17-2006, 07:49 PM

It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Lana is in the dark about a lot of things, and that Chloe and Clark (because of the kryptonian secrets they keep) know far more about what Lex is capable of.

Yes, Lana has treated both Clark and Chloe poorly in the past. That's not in dispute. And I don't think there's the degree of animosity some have suggested between Chloe and Lana. They 'were' roomies at Met U., and while they're obviously not as close as they used to be ... they're not at each others throats. If Lana didn't think Chloe was a friend, what would be the point of seeking out Chloe's opinion? It was Lana who asked for Chloe's opinion -- that would seem to suggest that she still values what Chloe has to say and - this may be hard to believe - she still sees Chloe as someone she can still confide in (although Lana has done much to push Chloe away). This isn't a case where Chloe offered some unsolicited advice that Lana didn't want. It was asked for.

It's not a case of Chloe being right or wrong -- it's not so simple. Lana is naive and what info she does know about Wall of Weird-level events is, sadly, filtered through the words and actions of Lex and Clark - both of whom have their own reasons and agendas for keeping Lana in the dark. Clark has made Chloe a party to that by involving her in his campaign of misinformation, and one day that boomerang will come back and impact Chloe as much as it will Clark.

Lana wasn't begging to be rescued by going to Chloe. She was a friend looking for advice, or at least someone who would confirm her doubts (and apparently she had some then) what she obviously has issues with: her commitment to her relationship with Lex.

Chloe probably has some fatigue at being everyone's doormat, but I think she's still Lana's friend -- but either she felt it wasn't her place now to pass judgment on Lana's choices as an adult (with their friendship now strained), or could not be completely frank because that would require her to reveal far more -- thus jeopardizing the confidence she has kept with Clark.

What I got out of the scene is: 1 - Lana and Chloe's friendship is now strained, hence Lana needing a pretext to come see Chloe 2 - Lana having to make a choice based on what info she has (and remember, much of that info based on the biased sources of Lex and Clark).

Lana seemed to want a reality check - one that Chloe could give her, and likely the most objective one - but she didn't get that. Chloe did not push her, nor did she tell Lana to get out of Luthor's grasp. She left the choice up to her. Chloe's in a hard position and there is a case to be made that she has chosen Clark's friendship as, if not more important that Lana's, worth the extra effort and sacrifice. (Whether he deserves that kind of loyalty is another issue - I don't think he does, but that's IMO.)

No one will be above reproach by the end. This is Smallville - there is no one left in town, after five years, who has the purest of intentions. I don't even think such a character existed on this show.

dance-shop-snark

10-17-2006, 10:47 PM

Originally posted by President_Luthor
It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Lana is in the dark about a lot of things, and that Chloe and Clark (because of the kryptonian secrets they keep) know far more about what Lex is capable of.

Yes, Lana has treated both Clark and Chloe poorly in the past. That's not in dispute. And I don't think there's the degree of animosity some have suggested between Chloe and Lana. They 'were' roomies at Met U., and while they're obviously not as close as they used to be ... they're not at each others throats. If Lana didn't think Chloe was a friend, what would be the point of seeking out Chloe's opinion? It was Lana who asked for Chloe's opinion -- that would seem to suggest that she still values what Chloe has to say and - this may be hard to believe - she still sees Chloe as someone she can still confide in (although Lana has done much to push Chloe away). This isn't a case where Chloe offered some unsolicited advice that Lana didn't want. It was asked for.

It's not a case of Chloe being right or wrong -- it's not so simple. Lana is naive and what info she does know about Wall of Weird-level events is, sadly, filtered through the words and actions of Lex and Clark - both of whom have their own reasons and agendas for keeping Lana in the dark. Clark has made Chloe a party to that by involving her in his campaign of misinformation, and one day that boomerang will come back and impact Chloe as much as it will Clark.

Lana wasn't begging to be rescued by going to Chloe. She was a friend looking for advice, or at least someone who would confirm her doubts (and apparently she had some then) what she obviously has issues with: her commitment to her relationship with Lex.

Chloe probably has some fatigue at being everyone's doormat, but I think she's still Lana's friend -- but either she felt it wasn't her place now to pass judgment on Lana's choices as an adult (with their friendship now strained), or could not be completely frank because that would require her to reveal far more -- thus jeopardizing the confidence she has kept with Clark.

What I got out of the scene is: 1 - Lana and Chloe's friendship is now strained, hence Lana needing a pretext to come see Chloe 2 - Lana having to make a choice based on what info she has (and remember, much of that info based on the biased sources of Lex and Clark).

Lana seemed to want a reality check - one that Chloe could give her, and likely the most objective one - but she didn't get that. Chloe did not push her, nor did she tell Lana to get out of Luthor's grasp. She left the choice up to her. Chloe's in a hard position and there is a case to be made that she has chosen Clark's friendship as, if not more important that Lana's, worth the extra effort and sacrifice. (Whether he deserves that kind of loyalty is another issue - I don't think he does, but that's IMO.)

No one will be above reproach by the end. This is Smallville - there is no one left in town, after five years, who has the purest of intentions. I don't even think such a character existed on this show.

I think this is the best way anyone has put it so far. good job. I agree

All about Clark

10-17-2006, 11:14 PM

I think the words "grow some fins and dive in" is what posters seem to have a problem with. And I think the issue is that based on Lana's distrust of her choices and not moving forward she came for advise. That being said, the fins and dive in can equally be taken as "act on your feelings and leave him or give the relationship a try"; that being stagnate doesn't work for anyone. So in essence, Chloe gave good advice.

ajfinn

10-18-2006, 12:01 AM

I'm just SOOOOOOO sick of how they've been writing Lana, I wish they would've just killed her off in Reckoning and saved us the aruguments. Her character is probably responsible for at least 80% of the bickering on K-site :lol:

My point at the beginning of this thread is not that Chloe is a bad person for offering the advice she gave, but that I think that the writers really messed up here. The scene was NOT realistic. Whether Chloe and Lana just aren't there anymore -- relationship wise, or if Chloe wouldn't have tossed her to a shark by not being more honest. I think the writing sucked in this scene.

SnarkMasterJ

10-18-2006, 12:34 AM

Originally posted by myankskent
Can we at least agree as to why Chloe knows the truth about Lex? She knows the truth because of her knowledge of Clark's secret and how it relates to how dangerous Lex could be to Clark if he were to ever find out about it. She also received a first hand look at how evil the Luthor's can be after she did what she did with Lionel. Regardless of the reason why Lana doesn't know the truth about Lex, it's quite clear that the writers have chosen to keep her in the dark about most things relating to Lex and the same with Clark.

Well if you're admitting that, then why would it make sense for Chloe to tell Lana anything? Lana would want to know how Chloe knows all the stuff she knows -- if Chloe were to be honest, she'd be selling Clark up a river, then she'd be pegged as a bad friend for doing that.

The whole thing is a slippery slope argument and it ultimately comes back to the fact that the girls just aren't friends anymore (and given canon, I don't buy that they will be like they used to ever again). Chloe's advice was similar to someone like Martha Kent in that she's not necessarily emotionally invested but she can still say what she thinks while leaving the choice ultimately up to Lana on what she wants to do. I don't understand what's so hard to accept about that.

**ETA -- Great post, President Luthor. I wholeheartedly agree.

Krypto500

10-18-2006, 01:34 AM

Out of context, Chloe's advice made sense. Lana deserves to be happy, and if pursuing a relationship with her boyfriend makes her happy, she should "dive in."

In context, you just have to wonder how Chloe could watch someone she cares about get sucked into a relationship that's going to hurt Lana more than her relationship with Clark ever did.

If she'd warned Lana, chances are Lana definitely would have begun asking questions about how Chloe could know that. And if Chloe didn't explain how she knew that stuff (and compromise Clark's secret), chances are Lana would have thought Chloe was just trying to break them up, either out of dislike towards Lex or out of loyalty to Clark.

Chloe was screwed either way, because she was trying to give impartial advice at the same time as be a good friend, and at the same time as trying to avoid revealing what she knows through her connection to Clark and his secret.

Kryptonian-Ronin

10-18-2006, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by President_Luthor
It wouldn't be a stretch to say that Lana is in the dark about a lot of things, and that Chloe and Clark (because of the kryptonian secrets they keep) know far more about what Lex is capable of.

Yes, Lana has treated both Clark and Chloe poorly in the past. That's not in dispute. And I don't think there's the degree of animosity some have suggested between Chloe and Lana. They 'were' roomies at Met U., and while they're obviously not as close as they used to be ... they're not at each others throats. If Lana didn't think Chloe was a friend, what would be the point of seeking out Chloe's opinion? It was Lana who asked for Chloe's opinion -- that would seem to suggest that she still values what Chloe has to say and - this may be hard to believe - she still sees Chloe as someone she can still confide in (although Lana has done much to push Chloe away). This isn't a case where Chloe offered some unsolicited advice that Lana didn't want. It was asked for.

It's not a case of Chloe being right or wrong -- it's not so simple. Lana is naive and what info she does know about Wall of Weird-level events is, sadly, filtered through the words and actions of Lex and Clark - both of whom have their own reasons and agendas for keeping Lana in the dark. Clark has made Chloe a party to that by involving her in his campaign of misinformation, and one day that boomerang will come back and impact Chloe as much as it will Clark.

Lana wasn't begging to be rescued by going to Chloe. She was a friend looking for advice, or at least someone who would confirm her doubts (and apparently she had some then) what she obviously has issues with: her commitment to her relationship with Lex.

Chloe probably has some fatigue at being everyone's doormat, but I think she's still Lana's friend -- but either she felt it wasn't her place now to pass judgment on Lana's choices as an adult (with their friendship now strained), or could not be completely frank because that would require her to reveal far more -- thus jeopardizing the confidence she has kept with Clark.

What I got out of the scene is: 1 - Lana and Chloe's friendship is now strained, hence Lana needing a pretext to come see Chloe 2 - Lana having to make a choice based on what info she has (and remember, much of that info based on the biased sources of Lex and Clark).

Lana seemed to want a reality check - one that Chloe could give her, and likely the most objective one - but she didn't get that. Chloe did not push her, nor did she tell Lana to get out of Luthor's grasp. She left the choice up to her. Chloe's in a hard position and there is a case to be made that she has chosen Clark's friendship as, if not more important that Lana's, worth the extra effort and sacrifice. (Whether he deserves that kind of loyalty is another issue - I don't think he does, but that's IMO.)

No one will be above reproach by the end. This is Smallville - there is no one left in town, after five years, who has the purest of intentions. I don't even think such a character existed on this show.

I think Chloe has loyalty to Clark for many reasons.
She understood why he kept his secret.
He has saved her life many times.
She has seen him save others with no regard for himself.
She has seen the turmoil he is in because of what he is.
She knows, even better than CLark, what he is destined for.

jimmyolsenblues

10-18-2006, 11:06 AM

Chloe was nice and not judgemental.
But we all wondered if Chloe is saying to lana go for it with lex so clark will be an easier mark.

xrayvision

10-18-2006, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by President_Luthor
Lana seemed to want a reality check - one that Chloe could give her, and likely the most objective one - but she didn't get that. Chloe did not push her, nor did she tell Lana to get out of Luthor's grasp. She left the choice up to her. Chloe's in a hard position and there is a case to be made that she has chosen Clark's friendship as, if not more important that Lana's, worth the extra effort and sacrifice. (Whether he deserves that kind of loyalty is another issue - I don't think he does, but that's IMO.)

No one will be above reproach by the end. This is Smallville - there is no one left in town, after five years, who has the purest of intentions. I don't even think such a character existed on this show.

I think Chloe knows that she can either be really good friends with Clark or Lana and not both at this point because of the breakup. And because Chloe knows that Lana does have some feelings for Lex, she could have written Lana off as a future enemy or perhaps a pawn of Lex to be used to get info on Clark.

I still think Chloe should have made 1 final point to unmask Lex's true nature to Lana. Revealing that the darkness Zod needed to possess someone could only be found in Lex would have been a safe way to go about it without exposing Clark's secret. I also think and want Lana to find out about the cave legend of Naman and Sigeeth. Lex knows about it, but doesn't know who Naman is yet, which keeps Clark's secret safe (at least in the timeline of this show not extending to the Superman years). When being asked for advice, Chloe should have unloaded one final time. She should have asked Lana what Lex has done to raise doubts and if she would have found out about the cameras, then she would have certainly tried very hard to make the point that Lana should stay away from him.

Lana not mentioning cameras to Chloe is just another reason why I think Lana will find out Clark's secret by viewing the camera footage. If TPTB are so triangle-driven now, then Lana finding out his secret is a must for the Clexana triangle to be possible since Clark is no longer showing any interest in Lana.

The only thing is, I don't want Lana finding out to be used in to build a triangle/'ship, but instead to promote Lana's recognition of Lex's nature and his plunge to total darkness, which is possible if they reveal that Clark room and the Lockdown save video.

michaelkent

10-18-2006, 01:53 PM

Dear myankskent:

Thank you for your reponse to my post. You raise a decent point but IMHO there is not much substance to it.

1. You claim that Chloe is allowing Lana to enter into a 'life and death' situation by not spelling out the specific info she knows about Lex. I submit the statement is a very emotional and histrionic one. Yes, Lex is a bad dude. Yes, Lex has done evil things because he is evil. But what has Lex done that is threatening to Lana's life??? Chloe knows that Lex is interested in Lana, and she doesn't want her friend to be mixed up with him. However, there is no evidence that Lana is going to be killed or physically harmed if she stays with Lex. She will probably become contaminated by Lex's slimy character and thereby become slimy herself, but that is not a life and death situation. Please don't overstate your case with highly emotional statements that are only supported by thin air.

As I said, Chloe has already made it very clear what she thinks about Lex to Lana, she has confronted Lex about his advances on Lana, and consistently stated that Lex is a bad seed ever since he has started to turn to the dark side. Clark has said similar things to Lana about Lex.

2. IMO I don't think Chloe is afraid of Lana getting angry at her, as much as she is about closing the door on a relationship with her former good friend and roommate. As I said, Chloe (although hardly perfect and having her own faults) has been presented as a person who is more concerned about others than herself. As I also said, she is attempting to keep the door open to remain Lana's friend so that Lana will still be willing to come to her for aid in the future. This is the same kind of behavior she exhibited when Clark and Lana were having their problems. She wanted to remain friends with both of them, so she refused to be Clark's spy in regards to Lana/Lex but continued to listen, support and give her point of view about what Clark should do to remain with Lana. She has let Lana know in no uncertain terms what she thinks about Lex, but Lana's only explicit response to her warnings has been "I don't intend on being anyone's prey."

3. As I said in my post, there is nothing Chloe could say about Lex that would not boil down to a 'he said/she said' argument.
There is no way in the world that Lana doesn't know Lex is dubious at best and is a womanizer. Other posters have made a fine point that Chloe could not reveal all she knows about Lex's crooked behavior without revealing her best friend's secret. It was and is up to Clark to reveal his secret to whomever he chooses, not Chloe's. It is Lana's choice to accept or reject Chloe's recommendations. If Lana is already willing to move into an apartment in the Luthor mansion and associate with Lex in a deepening relationship (that Chloe did not encourage in the least), Lana's possible downfall can only be laid at her own feet. Obviously, Clark's failure to tell her the truth and constantly treating his relationship with Lana like a yo-yo did not help foster Lana's sense of trust in other people, but that is ole Clarkie's fault not Chloe's.

4. Chloe is not weak, that is not the essence of a helper. Rescuers (although well intended) are the ones who dive in and give directives to others regardless of whether they want them or not. They believe that others are too weak and incapable of making their own decisions. Lana already has sufficient information to make a wise and reasonable decision about Lex. Unfortunately, her current anger toward Clark and her distrust of him has provided incentive for her to run to Lex for comfort. Although understandable, it does not excuse her from failing to heed the billboard sized warnings that she has been given.

5. Yes, Lana came to Chloe for advice, but this is not the first time they have talked about Lex. Chloe will not accomplish much by talking at Lana about Lex's misdeeds when all she can offer is her own word. Lana has already been warned. Chloe is simply being consistent with her prior remarks to Clark, after he dumped Lana and then became neurotic about Lana seeing Lex. Chloe told him Lana had the right to see Lex, regardless of the fact that Lex is bad news. 'You gave up the right to interfere in her life, when you called it quits with Lana' (or something like that).

6. If Lana gets 'knocked up' by crawling into Lex's bed (I don't claim to know if this will happen), she and Lex bear the responsibility for their child, not Chloe or anyone else. Unfortunately, certain segments of the baby boom generation (of which I am a part since I was born in 1956) have been very successful in marketing the idea that nearly everyone is a victim. In the case of Chloe and Lana discussing Lex, I am hearing that mindset as an underlying support for why some posters think Chloe let Lana down. I submit again that the balance of the evidence indicates that Chloe has consistently tried to be her friend and Clark's friend, which has placed in the middle of two people who are hurt and/or angry. Chloe has done the best she possibly could given the cards that were dealt her. She bears no responsibility for Lana's future problems with Lex.

azi

10-18-2006, 02:32 PM

Lana: Well, they're right about the revolving door of women you've had.
Lex: Maybe..

Oliver Queen: Lex Luthor... with a girl that he doesn't have to inflate.

Lex: If you were any other woman, I'd be saying everything you expect to hear right now, but you're not, okay? You not like anyone else. ( such a cheap line ).

+videotape + the guy has been married twice
Sorry for being off topic. For everyone who wants to see Chloe responsible for Lana’s action.

mobiusklein

10-18-2006, 02:35 PM

Let me put it this way, I bet if Chloe said something that caused Lana to come to her senses, she'd get booed for being too "magical."

Lana knows about the previous two marriages. She attended them both. She knows about the cameras and got her hand stabbed due to one of his projects. She knows that life with him may be dangerous. She has a hole in her hand. She may have a hole in her head but that's her choice.

xrayvision

10-18-2006, 03:07 PM

umm

10-18-2006, 03:16 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Can we at least agree as to why Chloe knows the truth about Lex? She knows the truth because of her knowledge of Clark's secret and how it relates to how dangerous Lex could be to Clark if he were to ever find out about it. She also received a first hand look at how evil the Luthor's can be after she did what she did with Lionel. Regardless of the reason why Lana doesn't know the truth about Lex, it's quite clear that the writers have chosen to keep her in the dark about most things relating to Lex and the same with Clark.

And don't even get me started on Clark. For a long time, he insisted that Lex wasn't like Lionel even with some proof of how bad Lex was.

We can agree on the all things you said, cos you are right, and it's obvious that Lana is meant to be constantly in the dark about Lex's activities even to the point of appearing stupid!
The writers, I guess, want Lexana to happen so badly that they are willing to completly ruin the character of Lana to accomplish that; make her look, well to put it nicely, not the sharpest tool in the shed, and in the process ruin her position with the fans, all so that Lexana can happen!
As for Clark, well one of his biggest weaknesses, beside kryptonite, has always been his childlike naivity and belief in the goodnesss of other people!

wildcat

10-18-2006, 03:21 PM

[i]Originally posted by umm
As for Clark, well one of his biggest weaknesses, beside kryptonite, has always been his childlike naivity and belief in the goodnesss of other people!

Some would say that his belief in the goodness of others is his strength. Its kind of what made superman so special.

But maybe if they portrayed this without the childlike naivity and with more strength of character, we would see differently. I don't know, just a thought.

myankskent

10-18-2006, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by michaelkent

1. You claim that Chloe is allowing Lana to enter into a 'life and death' situation by not spelling out the specific info she knows about Lex. I submit the statement is a very emotional and histrionic one. Yes, Lex is a bad dude. Yes, Lex has done evil things because he is evil. But what has Lex done that is threatening to Lana's life??? Chloe knows that Lex is interested in Lana, and she doesn't want her friend to be mixed up with him. However, there is no evidence that Lana is going to be killed or physically harmed if she stays with Lex. She will probably become contaminated by Lex's slimy character and thereby become slimy herself, but that is not a life and death situation. Please don't overstate your case with highly emotional statements that are only supported by thin air.

Thin air? Let me ask you a question...Why did Lana die in Reckoning? As far as I saw, she died because she was close to Lex. So I don't think that I am overstating anything when I just gave you an example that happened this season of Lana losing her life because of Lex, and she would've lost it twice if not for some Clark heroics. Case and point there.

As I said, Chloe has already made it very clear what she thinks about Lex to Lana, she has confronted Lex about his advances on Lana, and consistently stated that Lex is a bad seed ever since he has started to turn to the dark side. Clark has said similar things to Lana about Lex.

Actually, this is not true. The only scene where we saw Chloe talk about Lex to Lana was in Fragile, that coming after she went behind Lana's back and confronted Lex about their relationship. Now maybe you have a small point with Clark if you want to go back to a dicussion that happened between Lana and Chloe in lockdown where Lana told Chloe over the phone that she knows how Clark feels about Lex. In terms of screentime, Clark NEVER said anything about Lex to Lana until after they brokeup, and even when he did, he gave blank stares constantly so Lana knew that he was lying. But when it comes to Chloe, unless you can give me many examples throughout the series where Chloe has specifically told Lana bad things about Lex, I think that it is flat out false to say that Chloe has consistently said that Lex was a bad seed ever since he has turned to the dark side, at least when it comes to Lana. Chloe has obviously had countless scenes where she has discussed Lex with Clark, and it's unbelievable how detailed their discussions are about Lex even when it doesn't relate to his secret, but with Lana, no detail whatsoever.

And I will say that I do think that Lana knows that Chloe is not a fan of Lex, but the extent of why she feels that way has never been fleshed out to Lana and like I said, these two have had practically no scenes together where they discussed Lex.

2. IMO I don't think Chloe is afraid of Lana getting angry at her, as much as she is about closing the door on a relationship with her former good friend and roommate. As I said, Chloe (although hardly perfect and having her own faults) has been presented as a person who is more concerned about others than herself. As I also said, she is attempting to keep the door open to remain Lana's friend so that Lana will still be willing to come to her for aid in the future. This is the same kind of behavior she exhibited when Clark and Lana were having their problems. She wanted to remain friends with both of them, so she refused to be Clark's spy in regards to Lana/Lex but continued to listen, support and give her point of view about what Clark should do to remain with Lana. She has let Lana know in no uncertain terms what she thinks about Lex, but Lana's only explicit response to her warnings has been "I don't intend on being anyone's prey."

And again, what you say is all well and good, but as I've mentioned above, reasons why Chloe does not like Lex have not been mentioned....which brings us to your next point.....

3. As I said in my post, there is nothing Chloe could say about Lex that would not boil down to a 'he said/she said' argument.
There is no way in the world that Lana doesn't know Lex is dubious at best and is a womanizer. Other posters have made a fine point that Chloe could not reveal all she knows about Lex's crooked behavior without revealing her best friend's secret. It was and is up to Clark to reveal his secret to whomever he chooses, not Chloe's. It is Lana's choice to accept or reject Chloe's recommendations. If Lana is already willing to move into an apartment in the Luthor mansion and associate with Lex in a deepening relationship (that Chloe did not encourage in the least), Lana's possible downfall can only be laid at her own feet. Obviously, Clark's failure to tell her the truth and constantly treating his relationship with Lana like a yo-yo did not help foster Lana's sense of trust in other people, but that is ole Clarkie's fault not Chloe's.

Let me just say one thing to this. Explain to me why Chloe should even care about getting into a "he said, she said" debate with Lana. Can Chloe stand up for herself in a debate? Does she believe that Lana will just get the best of her in any discussion so why bother because she doesn't have what it takes to shut her up? This constant talk of Chloe not bringing up any specifics about Lex because Lana won't believe her is getting a little ridiculous. Chloe is a big, strong girl. If she can't bring the heat back at Lana if she attacks her or simply doesn't want to because, and I'm using other posters words here, "Is tired of it", then she can leave at that point after having done everything that she could do at that point. And this is the last time that I am going to bring this up, you have to look at the way this discussion came about. Lana is coming to Chloe which means that she is interested in what she has to say. As soon as Lana said that she constantly blames her trust issues on other people, Chloe should've told her that she is right to not trust Lex. Why can't she say that? But no, she instead tells Lana that she can't constantly watch people playing around in the pool, that sooner or later she needs to dive in. This, if you can't tell at this point from my posts, is my biggest problem with Chloe's advice. It was flat out ridiculous and there is no reason why Chloe couldn't tell Lana that she was right to not trust Lex.

Now, as far as Chloe not being able to reveal anything relating to Clark's secret, there is still plenty that she can tell Lana. She can tell her that it was Lex's fault for why those meteor freaks attacked her and the Kent's in Mortal. She could fill Lana in on what happened with Cyborg and Aquaman. Again, if Lana wants proof and Chloe can't give it to her, then that's Lana's problem. Do you know what you say if you're Chloe there and Lana demands proof? Get ready now because this is just so hard to say....she says "Lana, I don't have the proof but if you really believe that I am making this up and that I don't care about your safety, then why come to me for advice in the first place?" That's it. End of story.

4. Chloe is not weak, that is not the essence of a helper. Rescuers (although well intended) are the ones who dive in and give directives to others regardless of whether they want them or not. They believe that others are too weak and incapable of making their own decisions. Lana already has sufficient information to make a wise and reasonable decision about Lex. Unfortunately, her current anger toward Clark and her distrust of him has provided incentive for her to run to Lex for comfort. Although understandable, it does not excuse her from failing to heed the billboard sized warnings that she has been given.

Ok, and if you're Chloe and you understand that Lana is confused because of the way Clark has treated her, don't you think that you would at least tell her that she is right not to trust Lex? You know, Lana is not Chloe's problem but the unfortunate thing with Chloe is that she knows many things that Lana doesn't. Without getting into specifics relating to Clark's secret, Chloe could certainly give Lana some things to think about regarding Lex, as I've said above.

5. Yes, Lana came to Chloe for advice, but this is not the first time they have talked about Lex. Chloe will not accomplish much by talking at Lana about Lex's misdeeds when all she can offer is her own word. Lana has already been warned. Chloe is simply being consistent with her prior remarks to Clark, after he dumped Lana and then became neurotic about Lana seeing Lex. Chloe told him Lana had the right to see Lex, regardless of the fact that Lex is bad news. 'You gave up the right to interfere in her life, when you called it quits with Lana' (or something like that).

Chloe is not Lana's ex-boyfriend who broke up with her. Clark has nothing to say about it because he ended it with Lana, that's not the case with Chloe. There is no real bad blood between Chloe and Lana like there is with Lana and Clark. Totally different situation.

6. If Lana gets 'knocked up' by crawling into Lex's bed (I don't claim to know if this will happen), she and Lex bear the responsibility for their child, not Chloe or anyone else. Unfortunately, certain segments of the baby boom generation (of which I am a part since I was born in 1956) have been very successful in marketing the idea that nearly everyone is a victim. In the case of Chloe and Lana discussing Lex, I am hearing that mindset as an underlying support for why some posters think Chloe let Lana down. I submit again that the balance of the evidence indicates that Chloe has consistently tried to be her friend and Clark's friend, which has placed in the middle of two people who are hurt and/or angry. Chloe has done the best she possibly could given the cards that were dealt her. She bears no responsibility for Lana's future problems with Lex.

And when have I blamed Lana getting knocked up on Chloe? The issue here is did Chloe give advice to Lana that indicated that she should dive in further with Lex or did she place more doubts in her mind about Lex when looking at how that conversation ended? You know where I stand.

RobynAdele0406

10-18-2006, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by myankskent
Thin air? Let me ask you a question...Why did Lana die in Reckoning? As far as I saw, she died because she was close to Lex. So I don't think that I am overstating anything when I just gave you an example that happened this season of Lana losing her life because of Lex, and she would've lost it twice if not for some Clark heroics. Case and point there.

That episode can be taken so many different ways... like as for myself, I saw it as a domino effect... Lana went running to Lex in both instances, Chloe didn't keep her eyes glued to Lana the second time around, Lex and Lana's attention was not on the road, neither was the bus driver's. I mean, did we ever see Lana accelerate when she saw Lex was following her? No. So she probably would have gotten hit by the bus anyways, if you (like I) believe that it was all in Jor-El's plan.

Blaming it solely on Lex is somewhat unfair, imo.

mobiusklein

10-18-2006, 03:56 PM

My God, WHY does chloe have to do so much damn work to help Lana? She has to come up with the perfect statement, allow herself to get yelled at, probably have Lana & Lex fight, Lana blurts out that Chloe convinced her he was the evil, get told by Lex to butt the heck out with the 99% likelihood that Lana will end up in the sack with Lex anyway because she has no backup boyfriend.

xrayvision

10-18-2006, 03:59 PM

Originally posted by RobynAdele0406
That episode can be taken so many different ways... like as for myself, I saw it as a domino effect... Lana went running to Lex in both instances, Chloe didn't keep her eyes glued to Lana the second time around, Lex and Lana's attention was not on the road, neither was the bus driver's. I mean, did we ever see Lana accelerate when she saw Lex was following her? No. So she probably would have gotten hit by the bus anyways, if you (like I) believe that it was all in Jor-El's plan.

Blaming it solely on Lex is somewhat unfair, imo.

It was all Lex's fault. His thirst for power (the state senate seat) made him alienate everyone and once he got drunk in both those scenarios, he was the one who would have cost Lana her life. I also think he is responsible for Jonathan's death. In Lexmas, an alternate reality was shown where Lex did not take the path to money & power, and as a result, Jonathan was still alive. That tells me that the extra stress that Lex's antics during the election had on Jonathan is what killed him. I think that Lionel went to Jonathan to speak about Lex, NOT about Milton Fine (he would speak to Clark if it was about Fine). Lex was the danger to Jonathan's secret (i.e. Clark), not Milton Fine.

As far as Jor-El goes, I think he knew that Clark disobeying him would be the factor that would re-open the communication lines between Lex & Lana when Lex planted the seed of doubt at the end of Hidden. So I think all Jor-El did was tell him the outcome of dying and coming back to life, where if he never died, Lana would have never gone to Lex with the medical records and instead avoided him like the plague.

Bottom line IMO is that Lex is responsible (along with Clark for not doing what Jor-El said, though at least he gave up Lana while Lex is still putting her in danger).

umm

10-18-2006, 04:29 PM

Originally posted by wildcat
Some would say that his belief in the goodness of others is his strength. Its kind of what made superman so special.

But maybe if they portrayed this without the childlike naivity and with more strength of character, we would see differently. I don't know, just a thought.

No, you are completly right! Usually his belief in the goodness of others would be his greatest strength, but when it is coupled with his constant childlike naivity, it easily becomes a weakness, as it has often been shown in the show! He puts his faith in people so easily and the gets disappointed when they don't turn out as expected!

Originally posted by xrayvision
It was all Lex's fault. His thirst for power (the state senate seat) made him alienate everyone and once he got drunk in both those scenarios, he was the one who would have cost Lana her life. I also think he is responsible for Jonathan's death. In Lexmas, an alternate reality was shown where Lex did not take the path to money & power, and as a result, Jonathan was still alive. That tells me that the extra stress that Lex's antics during the election had on Jonathan is what killed him. I think that Lionel went to Jonathan to speak about Lex, NOT about Milton Fine (he would speak to Clark if it was about Fine). Lex was the danger to Jonathan's secret (i.e. Clark), not Milton Fine.(...)

(...)Bottom line IMO is that Lex is responsible (along with Clark for not doing what Jor-El said, though at least he gave up Lana while Lex is still putting her in danger).

Yes, Lex is responsible for many, many bad things happening in Smallville, but you can't pin Jonathan's death on him and you can't pin Lana's endangerment on him either! The bottom line is, had Lana distanced herself from him on time, she would have never been placed in danger, it was soly her decission and the cosequence thereof, and Jonathan died as a consequense of Clark's decission, so as evil as Lex may be, there are some things he wasn't responsible for!

SnarkMasterJ

10-18-2006, 04:38 PM

I think the whole issue is that, bottom line, as many have already said, Lana doesn't need to know what Chloe knows or what Clark knows to make an educated decision about staying with Lex. She already knew and knows plenty about him to warrant sufficient suspicion, and possibly to take herself out of his life completely. The nature of the scene wasn't Lana coming to Chloe, asking for more dirt on Lex so she could more accurately make a decision. She'd already made a decision -- she just needed to know she was making it for the right reasons: because it's what she wanted, not because she's too insecure and untrusting to know the difference.

It wasn't about showing Lex's true colors to anyone. At this point, I don't think anyone needs to have a personal one-on-one seminar about the evils of Lex Luthor. Chloe voiced her disapproval in an objective manner because she knew Lana wasn't coming to her to hear about all the reasons she shouldn't be with Lex, and I think we, as the audience, were supposed to see that as well.

umm

10-18-2006, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
It wasn't about showing Lex's true colors to anyone. At this point, I don't think anyone needs to have a personal one-on-one seminar about the evils of Lex Luthor. Chloe voiced her disapproval in an objective manner because she knew Lana wasn't coming to her to hear about all the reasons she shouldn't be with Lex, and I think we, as the audience, were supposed to see that as well.

You are right, Lana had in fact already made her decission, which by the way had nothing to do with Lex qualities as a person, but rather whether Lana was ready to take such a serious step with another guy, so she only wanted Chloe's approval of her already made decission! Which begs the question, why come to Chloe in the first place if she already made her decission! Is she that insecure?

cotton candy girl

10-18-2006, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by umm
You are right, Lana had in fact already made her decission, which by the way had nothing to do with Lex qualities as a person, but rather whether Lana was ready to take such a serious step with another guy, so she only wanted Chloe's approval of her already made decission! Which begs the question, why come to Chloe in the first place if she already made her decission! Is she that insecure?

How can anyone claim to know Lana had made any decision before she talked to Chloe?

xrayvision

10-18-2006, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by umm
No, you are completly right! Usually his belief in the goodness of others would be his greatest strength, but when it is coupled with his constant childlike naivity, it easily becomes a weakness, as it has often been shown in the show! He puts his faith in people so easily and the gets disappointed when they don't turn out as expected!

Yes, Lex is responsible for many, many bad things happening in Smallville, but you can't pin Jonathan's death on him and you can't pin Lana's endangerment on him either! The bottom line is, had Lana distanced herself from him on time, she would have never been placed in danger, it was soly her decission and the cosequence thereof, and Jonathan died as a consequense of Clark's decission, so as evil as Lex may be, there are some things he wasn't responsible for!

I can pin the blame on him when he was driving drunk in both of those scenarios in Reckoning and caused/would have caused the crash. Yes, I have said that Lana was at fault also for being stupid enough to associate herself with him (getting her cake and eating it too since she was with Clark and investigating the ship with Lex), but he's a maniac and deserves most of the blame. I don't buy the argument that Lex can't help who he is and anyone who dies as a result of his conquests is at fault because they are stupid to associate themselves with him (no matter how stupid Lana is).

I blame him for Jonathan's death as well. We know the alternate reality was not just a pointless dream as Lex's mother mentioned it again when he temporarily died in Void. If it was pointless, she wouldn't have shown Lana dying, but would have instead manipulated it to make Lex make the right choice. The very first thing she asked him in Void was that rhetorical question about the election with Jonathan Kent which points out how she blamed Lex for his death. Lex is also the only one alive who knows about that reality and how Jonathan was alive as a result of Lex choosing one path over the other. I also noticed how in Lexmas, she calls him Lex every single time, while in Void, she calls him Alexander (the name that evil Lex was given in Onyx) every single time. I don't think that's a coincidence and refers to him completely losing his innocence between those 2 episodes.