Loved it? Hated it? Tell us what you think!

[gj430]

i thought it was good, but i think people would look on it better if the the fight was handled a little better.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by torfinho
I liked it, only thing was that the kryptonian should have been much cooler, she seemed more like a krypto freak..

Now they have used one of these villains who could have been much more fun to watch.

Gloria wasn't Kryptonian and didn't seem to like Kryptonians based on her comment of them being cold and hard.

I thought the story fell flat, but it did set up what the characters feelings were which we don't always get. It's like we know where everyone stands now, so now that the stage is set they can move it forward. There just wasn't anything about Wither to really dig, get excited about.

And yes, we've used one out of five. And we know 3 are kyrptonians, Aethry, Nam-ek, and Raya. So what are the other two? My guess is that they will come from another planet Clark isn't familiar with like the Gloria character.

[clana20]

Originally posted by ajfinn
One word:
LEXANA



*washes hands dripping in slime*



EXACTLY... It's basically impossible to call any episode good that includes Lexana crap, not to mention what this episode did.

[Deana]

I liked some parts more than others. It could've been better.

[Poweranimals]

I don't understand it either. Smallville is always going to include FOTW to some extent. There's only so many ways that you can challenge Clark physically. The FOTW was kind of creepy and Gloria had good chemistry with Clark.

This episode had pretty much everything. Jimmy is hillarious and he gives someone else for Clark to play off. With half of the characters being at odds, Jimmy is definitely a welcome addition. And Chloe was actually tolerable. She and Jimmy hit it off really well.

Oliver Queen is definitely a welcome addition as well. He's got great chemistry with Lois and his scenes were all really fun to watch.

Clark in this episode has a real commanding presence. He's definitely become more determined and confident. I really liked the scene at the end where he's all alone while the others are off. It's a really character building moment.

Lex was brilliant in this episode. He's becoming more evil. I liked how he threw the charity ball to try to gain a positive image in the public light and with Lana. I loved when he said, "I'm done paying for his mistakes.". The Lex and Clark scene was brilliant. You can really see what immortal enemies they've become and how fed up they are with each other. Lex's "The days of you showing up unannounced in my home are over. You're not welcome here." hit me hard. Brilliantly cold.

Complaining about Lexana is starting to get old at this point. They're going through with it no matter how much you complain and I really think it's great the more I see of it. All we know is Clark is not meant to be with Lana. A little corruption of her character is just what the character needs to push Clark away. It's not meant to end happily ever after all. I think it really adds to the plot of both Clark and Lex as they're forced to make life altering decisions.

[stenebe08]

Just my opinion...
Pros:
- The dialog was fresh
- Cinematography (color, the green arrow and the can scene)
- Well established theme to move the character of "Clark" along to Superman (ie. "The lonely road to being a hero")
- Music was two thumbs up :)
- Lana's growing a backbone (as far as questioning her trust in other people and speaking up - even though she got told by Lex... "I'm done paying for Clark's mistakes" [kehehe])

Cons:
- Not a lot of action
- The fight between Gloria and Clark was pitiful
- Pace was choppy
- Personally, I didn't like the end. Clark's a nice guy and he deserves to have at least one friend to play catch with :P ...I don't like seeing people alone. It's just plain sad.
- I read somewhere about the crap visual effects? How much those vines looked like 70's clay animation. I TOTALLY AGREE.

Yea, I had more to say about this episode but... whatever. I was pretty excited watching this episode and after reading some of the posts, I guess I'm just ok with it 'cause I agree with some things that have been said. Either way, I'm still very much gung-ho about smallville. YAHOO!


Originally posted by Luv Clana/Hate Lexana
Flat out hated it. Lexana... ugh... gives me a weird feeling.

yea... ICK. I would rather see them talk and maybe even bicker. I feel like they're more like a couple like that, but kissing and sex?! VOMIT.

[CallMeClark]

I didn't like it, sadly. :(

The only thing I enjoyed was the All-American Rejects music... The episode was too packed with characters... Not to mention the B plot was boring... Plus I didn't find the female Phantom prisoner that interesting.

I am glad they have figured out how to make the A plots about the characters tho. I am beginning to think bringing the Green Arrow in is not developing Clark's story at all...

The ending was so sad, though. :( Clark bouncing the ball all alone...

[otter]

I liked this episode so much. They had me happy for Chloe/Jimmy and Lois/Ollie. They had me sad for lonely Clarkie. Martha was beautiful. There was delicious TC!

Unfortunately, they had me cringing at the horror-movie scenes. bad special effects or not, this is a show about Superman in training, not some pitiful halloween-loving horror flick. The impalings and plants running down Jimmy's mouth, oh my goodness, please spare me!

My biggest complaint is the sound. I mean, I couldn't understand half of what people were saying. Did Lois actually say "I don't have a costume"? It's a good thing Ollie repeated her, cause it was not understandable.

I'm still in love with this show, though!

[diva]

I'd give it a 5 or 6. I liked the James Carrington song, a couple of Clark's lines ("the gardener, get out", and "you can't go home, I can't let you stay..."), the scene between Clark and Chloe at the Talon (especially the mock whispering from Clark), and the scene with Ollie and Lois at the end with the arrow and can.

I didn't like:

Clark being shunted to the sidelines for the second episode in a row, Clark and Lex's confrontation being pretty much a pissing contest over Lana, Lois actually accepting the "blackmail date" from Ollie instead of verbally slapping him upside the head for the suggestion, the anticlamatic "poof and she's gone" fight scene, Chloe coming to the rescue of Clark again when he could have gotten himself out of the situation (using heat vision, for example), the 2 minutes of screentime the ball had, and the fact that a lot of the dialogue was weirdly out-of-character or very noticeably dubbed in or barely even audible.

The rest (including pretty much the entire plant lady plot) I was either bored with, didn't care, or didn't understand.

[clarkandlana2]

Hmmmm....I'd have to give it a 0. At best. WORST EPPISODE EVER. Never watching this pile of sh*t again. :mad:

[BULLITT]

The Oliver Queen aspect was okay - the guy can act, at least.

I'm starting to root for Lana leaving the show - sick and tired of her whinning.

However, she really pulled off that Cleopatra look.

Clark all alone in the loft,...well at least he wasn't "playing with his telescope". lol

[newfamfan]

This episode was not only a bore but it belittled the hero once more while placing the others above him. The villian wins..as always in Smallville. I guess they are saving the very end episode for Clark to finally get a clue.

I wonder if Chloe will die and her ghost will whisper to Superman..Fly..Clark, Fly. Because obviously our hero can't be a hero without her telling him what to do and how to do it.

Not to mention....the showrunners better be careful. Oliver will become the focus of the show and out shine our hero. That should never happen

[Wingz Of Steel]

Man I loved this episode...I don't know what most of you were watching, but this ep had great cinematography and visual quality, great pace, and even better acting... Tom Welling was great this episode, his best acting performance since maybe "Fragile"...he commanded the screen morso than he has in recent episodes (Focus on the dialouge which is finally something a bit different for Clark)...I loved his fiery attitude with Lex and the PZ creature..The sexual chemistry between them in the first scene was so on-point I thought they had change Lori Lemoris into a park ranger...TW owned that scene (His timing was spot-on all episode)....He even owned the scene with Lex which IMO isn't so easy to do for him all the time... I was very impressed with TW this episode, his emotions and temperment changed drastically from scene to scene...Being kinda awkward and jealous with regards to Chimmy, being totally flirtatous and confident in his dialouge with the Park Ranger, being totally in Lex's grill with fire in the greenhouse scene (Clex scenes are always so astounding), being weak and vulnerable when caught by the tree...I definatley saw a change in his character this week, which is more sterness and aggressive mannerisms which is what I have been waiting for with him...



As for the people still yammering about FOTW...Who do you want him to fight? Humans? Animals?? This is Superman!!! Everyone complains they're tired of the Krypto-FOTW, so now we have PZ-FOTW and they are still complaining? Superman has to have villains that give him problems and they all can't be as awesome as Braniac...Not all PZ criminals were strong enuff to stop themselves from being imprisoned in the first place so it's not odd that Clark could beat a random one pretty easy (If having a beanstalk grow out of your stomach is easy)...

I knew alot of negative reaction would be to Lexana and dominate peoples view of this ep eventhough Lexana was a subplot this week...All I gotta say love it or hate it the actual scene was done well with great sexuality and romance... Did you see when KK took off her dress and showed her curves in that embrace with Lex...ohhh too hawt!! I'll write a longer review for sure to discuss improved performances from AA, ED and JH...Wither so far is my fav this season because it was exciting, had great character moments for the most part and worked on so many levels (All stuuffed into a FOTW storyline)... and TW was awesome all the way til bouncing that ball in his lonely barn...Keep episodes like this coming....
__________________

[Logeye]

Either Lex simply can't tell the truth, or the writers don't remember that Lex gave a "house" key to his Doctor friend and took in the daughter of his big rival (who he smoked in a fake business transaction). So, he tells Lana that he has had lots of girls (so far I think only one has died - appropriately in bed) but HE NEVER INVITED ANY TO MOVE IN WITH HIM. WTF is that all about - is Lana completely clueless? I am able to eat again after two days of continuous barfing after watching Lana "bare it all" for Lex.

[MBCorp]

An incredibly boring, mediocre episode that revolved around too much relationship drama, with a very, very lame, badly written A plot.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by MBCorp
An incredibly boring, mediocre episode that revolved around too much relationship drama, with a very, very lame, badly written A plot.

Then why even watch it ? This is pure lameness..Give examples or hindsight, or evaluations on what was so incredible boring and mediocre?? I didn't see it... This episode had some creative elements at work and some especially strong character moments from Clark especially...Other than the final fight being a bit too quick, what was sooooooo lame and poorly written? Please give me a reason to respect your POV, because all I see is crying from someone who didn't get what they want....Prove me wrong and give an opinion of substance...This is not just you but I've read alot of trite "rally" posts and it kinda un-nerves me...

[manofsteel30]

[i]Keep episodes like this coming....
__________________ [/B]


Awwww man! Cmon folks, if we EVER want a shot at Smallville getting good, we can't have people saying to keep episodes like this trash coming. This was the worst case of garbage ever to be on a TV screen. Not just Smallville. Any show...ever!


I am able to eat again after two days of continuous barfing after watching Lana "bare it all" for Lex.

The real tragedy here is not that Lana has bared it all for Lex, but that the producers of the show get Lex so little that they would actually think Lex would go for a twit like Lana in the first place. The only thing that makes ANY sense is that he's doing it to have some semblance of a normal life with a girl who, while annoying and completely immature, doesn't have the intelligence to try to kill him or swindle him out of his money. So far, we haven't seen enough purposeful actions from Lex against Cclark for me to buy the transition of him suddenly sleeping with Lana to bother Clark.

No, unfortunately, what they expect us to believe, based on Lex's words and actions, is that he actually cares for and wants to be with Lana even though she offers no one anything.


The Oliver Queen aspect was okay - the guy can act, at least

I actually like seeing the introduction of other heroes on this show, though I thought this actor was quite a bit stiff. The scene with Lionel was cool in "Sneeze," mainly because anything John Glover's in usually rocks. It also bothers me that every hero they bring on the show is trying to convice Clark, who in reality was the first and greatest hero and leader the Earth has ever known, to be a heero and follow THEIR example. CLARK should be the example and always has in the legend. In this show he hates his powers, regrets being a hero and has no desire to carry the responsibility these other heroes carry. It's a shame the producers of this show about Superman's early years have taken the inspiring factor away from he who would be SUperman and that others, OQ for example, who don't even have powers, need to inspire Clark instead of the other way around.


I gave it a 7

Yeah, you know, me too, I too give this episode a 7. If it were on a scale of one being the worst and a billion being the best that ever TV had to offer.


It didn't seem like one a casual viewer would enjoy.

Nor should anyone else who has respect for these characters. I mean the actual lengendary characters, not the ones Smallville has blasphemed them into. I still want to see where they go with the show and I like a great many aspects of many eps. Even this one had a few interesting bits, but not enough to get me past the garbage.


Hope they continue on with the same path...

I sincerely hope they don't. It's time now to turn this show around. To get somewhere at least NEAR where they were headed in the first two seasons and then mainly season 3, which was the best, it's the only shot we have at redemption.


I cannot believe that some of you have compared the episode to Ageless.

Yeah I know. Where "Ageless" was bad and incoherent, "Whither" makes it look like Emmy material.


none of us can expect the story to be one that follows the myth

Agreed. They've changed so much what Superman is that there's not really any way for it to be the Superman we know now. Instead he's a brooding, revenge seeking, angry, depressed, non-inspiring figure that prowls the night searching for...hey wait a minute, what do you know? The producers finally got their wish. In interviews, Al and Miles have expressed that who they really want to do was Bruce Wayne, but because at the time a new Bats movie was supposed to be in the works, they had to "settle" for Superman. Hmmm. Interesting that they've done their darndest to make Clark into Batman so that they can have the show they really wanted.


The dialog was fresh

What show were you watching? You might mention Lex's words to Clark in the greenhouse, though he's said that exact line, word for word, about Clark's days of bursting into his home..." And the line in the woods where Clark yells at plant girl to "Go back where you came from...NOW!" is so over the top melodramatic that it actually made me laugh at him.


Well established theme to move the character of "Clark" along to Superman (ie. "The lonely road to being a hero")

If anything, this episode took 1000 steps back from Clark being a hero. Real heroes, especially Superman, don't kill.

Furthermore, for those of you who claim to understand how Clark was impaled by a weed, he's INVULNERABLE. It's just so silly to think that a weed can impale his chest but that any of her other victims are still alive.


I see major sparks between these two characters.

Please. This guy is no Jimmy. He doesn't get teh character, he's too old and he just shouldn't be here. Are we to believe that Jimmy got a job at the planet looooong before Clark and that Clark will still be the senior, more respected member of the staff in the future. Way to go Gough and Millar, thanks for ruining another part of a legendary story.


The Lexana scene still had a smoking looking naked female, and that's rarely disappointing

The problem is, this show is supposed to be about Clark becoming a great hero and Lex becoming a great villain, it's not supposed to be aplace where people get their sex kicks or masturbation needs. Look at a magazine or porn or something on HBO for that, this is where fans should be able to go to get a reasonable rendition of a Superman in training, and Smallville just really isn't that anymore. Can it be righted? I really don't know. It may not be too late, if they stop doing episodes like this one.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Awwww man! Cmon folks, if we EVER want a shot at Smallville getting good, we can't have people saying to keep episodes like this trash coming. This was the worst case of garbage ever to be on a TV screen. Not just Smallville. Any show...ever!

@manofsteel30 - Another hatemongerer with "rally" points because things aren't going your way... You want fries with that Rally burger??

When I said "keep eps like this coming..." I meant episodes where Clark shows many layers of his personality in an episode (not just mopey and unsure Clark)...Episodes that have a good deal of visual quality as in the forest scene where Clark uses his xray or the various cinematic techniques used throughout the episode...I meant episodes where the settings aren't just the Luthor Study or the Kent Barn (Here we get a Luthor Ballroom, a green-house, a forest, Oliver's tower, the back alley where he shoots the can-tab)...Episodes where Clark is more assertive during Clex scenes instead of holding his tounge...This episode was multi-layered and adressed all of it's subplots with good pacing...This was still a FOTW episode but it accomplished so much more than that singular story-angle... So please don't lump me in with your flabbergasted "rally"-appeals because you obviously had no understanding of what I meant when i said to keep episodes of this nature coming...

PS if you enjoyed "Ageless more than "Wither" i'll pay for your medical bills...

[hassenmorad]

^^^ Well, I think this episode certainly did have some nice elements to it, like the visual quality (besides that electrical burst), and some nice change in setting, but most objective viewers would surely disappointed with such a weak storyline to complement these strengths. Ultimately, it's the storyline that carries most of the weight when determining its success, and Wither was definitely a weak episode when considering this IMO.

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Then why even watch it ? This is pure lameness..Give examples or hindsight, or evaluations on what was so incredible boring and mediocre?? I didn't see it... This episode had some creative elements at work and some especially strong character moments from Clark especially...Other than the final fight being a bit too quick, what was sooooooo lame and poorly written? Please give me a reason to respect your POV, because all I see is crying from someone who didn't get what they want....Prove me wrong and give an opinion of substance...This is not just you but I've read alot of trite "rally" posts and it kinda un-nerves me...

To be honest, I could care less if you respect my POV or not, and I'm certainly not going to waste the time or effort to write an in depth review/essay about an episode that I found to be boring and trite. "crying from someone who didn't get what they want"? Well, I wanted an interesting, well written episode and I got a boring, mediocre one instead. And so I stated my feelings about the episode in the thread for that purpose. I guess that's what you mean by "crying", although I'm not sure why you should get so bent out of shape over someone else' opinion.

I do have to address your remark about Clark though. Clark was barely in the episode and was basically used as a supporting character so I have no idea what you mean by "strong character moments from Clark" What scene do you mean specifically? The scene where Chloe had to save Clark yet again? The scene at the end where Clark sat moping, miserable and alone in the barn? Where is this strong character moment at that you so praise?

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by hassenmorad
^^^ Well, I think this episode certainly did have some nice elements to it, like the visual quality (besides that electrical burst), and some nice change in setting, but most objective viewers would surely disappointed with such a weak storyline to complement these strengths. Ultimately, it's the storyline that carries most of the weight when determining its success, and Wither was definitely a weak episode when considering this IMO.
I'm trying to find out what was so weak about this particular storyline in relationship to most other SV storylines?? Explain it to me?? I didn't think it was apparent from the first scene between Clark and The Park Ranger that she was indeed the FOTW? (There was doubt there) The plot was pretty straight-forward for the Luthor Ball and the dynamic of everyone there I'd agree... To me I thought that the actors were really good this episode and Clark stepped out of his status quo personality when dealing with Lex and the PZ villain...There was much subtlety in TW's performance this ep as I've explained with his grasp of different emotions depending on the situation (and to boot his dialouge was much fresher than your average Clark scene we've been getting for a while now...He was more assertive than in eps past... I consider myself indeed an objective viewer as I won't let a couple-pairing make or break an episode for me like most people I've read...

I was a bigtime Clana supporter but you won't see me trying to push the kitchen chair away with the tips of my feet in an attempt to murder myself via a hanging suicide because of it...and eventhough I intially thought Lexana was forced I give credit because IMO the actors have really sold themselves to the dynamic and pulled it off...


@MBcorp


To be honest, I could care less if you respect my POV or not, and I'm certainly not going to waste the time or effort to write an in depth review/essay about an episode that I found to be boring and trite. "crying from someone who didn't get what they want"? Well, I wanted an interesting, well written episode and I got a boring, mediocre one instead. And so I stated my feelings about the episode in the thread for that purpose. I guess that's what you mean by "crying", although I'm not sure why you should get so bent out of shape over someone else' opinion.

Because it seems trite and basic SV hatemongering because the ep didn't go the way you wanted it too...I didn't find anything boring about this ep...and since I'm not a Lexana hater I can't get mad and $hit on a whole episode based on a "hook-up"...If you thought it was sooooooooooooo boring and uniteresting I just don't get the triteness...Usually people want to complain about what was the specific source of complete boredem...



I do have to address your remark about Clark though. Clark was barely in the episode and was basically used as a supporting character so I have no idea what you mean by "strong character moments from Clark" What scene do you mean specifically? The scene where Chloe had to save Clark yet again? The scene at the end where Clark sat moping, miserable and alone in the barn? Where is this strong character moment at that you so praise?

Strong character moments as in his interactions during the Clex scene, his assertiveness and confidence in both scenes with the PZ villain...He was extremely flirtatous and confident in the first scene (when is Clark ever commanding the scene when talking to a girl? Usually he's nervous and awkward not assertive) then really stern in the next...Lines like "You can't go back home and you can't stay here, So what are we gonna do??!?!" Had a much different tone than I'm used to from Clark...He seemed more accepting of what he has to do something he has been quite wishy-washy on from several eps leading up to this one...Alot of it is subtle in the way he acted during the "Chimmy" situations aswell with good timing thru-out the ep with his facial expressions and mannerisms....The final scene of him in the barn apparently moping was to show the contrasts of the character's paths, not just another Clark moping scene...To some he's moping, to others it's lonliness being the sacrifice for a hero...It's subjective is all...Go back and watch the episode, this time focus on the actual dialouge and subtlety of Clark's performance in various scenes....His change of emotions and timing were on-point all episode IMO...

Now whoever hated the ep purely on Lexana I really have no probs with that but it would be nice if they don't drag that irrational overkill into judging the merits of a whole episode...Alot of characters got good or productive face time this episode aswell..

[manofsteel30]

Because it seems trite and basic SV hatemongering because the ep didn't go the way you wanted it too...

Wrong usage of the word too Wingz. But that's just a joke. Anyways, I'm not a hatemongerer, whatever you mean by that. I'm just terribly disappointed by the writing on Smallville. No, this episode wasn't boring, it was simply terribly disjointed, poorly edited, horribly acted and had many out of character moments for almost every character. The villain was totally absurd, the effects were bad AND we have Clark killing, which is something Superman should never do.

By the way, when you speak of hatemongering, do you refer to people who post calling other people names, such as hatemongerer? Or perhaps when you talk about how certain people rally or whine because an episode didn't go the way they wanted it to? Is that what you mean by hatemongering. Cause I was just wondering.

I certainly didn't make any affronts toward anyone in particular or insult anyone. If you liked this episode that's great. I just think there was very little to enjoy and the writers were very lazy, as were the editors and effects people. I think the nurse that ran out of the hospital room was the worst acting I've ever seen. And Tom, whereas I've never really had any problem with his acting when other people have said he was bad in the beginning - his over the top line in the woods was his worst yet as well. I think what probably happened was that everyone on the show KNEW how bad this ep was so they just did their best with the stinkfest they were handed labelled "script." Though I'm not even sure I believe there was one.

[hassenmorad]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
I'm trying to find out what was so weak about this particular storyline in relationship to most other SV storylines?? Explain it to me?? I didn't think it was apparent from the first scene between Clark and The Park Ranger that she was indeed the FOTW? (There was doubt there) The plot was pretty straight-forward for the Luthor Ball and the dynamic of everyone there I'd agree... To me I thought that the actors were really good this episode and Clark stepped out of his status quo personality when dealing with Lex and the PZ villain...There was much subtlety in TW's performance this ep as I've explained with his grasp of different emotions depending on the situation (and to boot his dialouge was much fresher than your average Clark scene we've been getting for a while now...He was more assertive than in eps past... I consider myself indeed an objective viewer as I won't let a couple-pairing make or break an episode for me like most people I've read...

Honestly, it's hard to remember exactly what I didn't like from Wither, because there were so many things and I usually remember the things that I liked more. Here's my shot at it though:

Overall, I thought the development of the 3 relationships were totally forced. I'm really looking forward to the Lois/Ollie relationship, but for Lois to consider granting Oliver a kiss the very same day she met him (with no real sparks evident between them) was ridiculous writing. Is that really what her character is like? It didn't seem like it to me. And now for the Chloe/Jimmy fiasco- I've never seen a relationship forced into more than this one. Did you really buy the acting in the first scene? I thought it was terrible, which is perfectly natural when certain sequences of events just don't fit. And lastly, I just disliked the Lexana sex simply because I dislike the relatioship in general. There's just no chemistry between Rosenbaum and Kreuk, and I think the acting in those scenes clearly spell that out.

Now to the general premise of Wither. Tell me if you think this is an engaging, imaginative storyline. A girl with the ability to control plants and needs males in order to procreate (and is one of the phantoms who escaped the PZ) is the main antagonist. Clark finds himself weakened by this girl's plant tombs (or whatever they were) and ordinarily this would signify some kryptonite connection (Clark's ONLY physical weakness). However, in a stroke of brilliance, what Clark was weakened by was some random space chemical (sarcasm). How can the writers consider this creative? I thought we'd really see some creative development but instead all we got was some pretty weak explanation, which is so disappointing to see.

Also, I'm a bit annoyed by the pattern of Chloe coming to the rescue every time Clark gets in trouble. Clark just seems pitifully weak when I see this happening so often.

I would have to watch the episode again to really give you a more accurate analysis, but I think it would be better just to forget it and move on. I have a feeling Arrow is going to turn out to be the episode that pulls season 6 out of a streak of poor eps.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by manofsteel30
[B]Wrong usage of the word too Wingz. But that's just a joke. Anyways, I'm not a hatemongerer, whatever you mean by that. I'm just terribly disappointed by the writing on Smallville. No, this episode wasn't boring, it was simply terribly disjointed, poorly edited, horribly acted and had many out of character moments for almost every character. The villain was totally absurd, the effects were bad AND we have Clark killing, which is something Superman should never do.

I doubt Clark knew he was killing her and I just disagree with the rest...No need for me to rehash what I've already said in a comphrehensive post earlier...Rewatch the ep and this time pay attention to the dialouge between certain characters and the TONE of TW's acting in certain scenes...He was much different IMO in tone...Much better too...




By the way, when you speak of hatemongering, do you refer to people who post calling other people names, such as hatemongerer? Or perhaps when you talk about how certain people rally or whine because an episode didn't go the way they wanted it to? Is that what you mean by hatemongering. Cause I was just wondering.

I mean people who attempt to rally everyone to there negative view by saying strictly negative comments with little to no substance behind it for the purpose of just keeping the $hitstorm alive...I'm highly critical of many things past and present in SV, but I'm gonna say exactly what it is...If you hate an episode or anything about it that's fine, but say what it is, not just "SV sucks, the writers sucks, everything sucks..." etc,...Have a coherent viewpoint is all...Not just crying so people will cry with you..


@hassenmorad


Overall, I thought the development of the 3 relationships were totally forced. I'm really looking forward to the Lois/Ollie relationship, but for Lois to consider granting Oliver a kiss the very same day she met him (with no real sparks evident between them) was ridiculous writing. Is that really what her character is like? It didn't seem like it to me. And now for the Chloe/Jimmy fiasco- I've never seen a relationship forced into more than this one. Did you really buy the acting in the first scene? I thought it was terrible, which is perfectly natural when certain sequences of events just don't fit. And lastly, I just disliked the Lexana sex simply because I dislike the relatioship in general. There's just no chemistry between Rosenbaum and Kreuk, and I think the acting in those scenes clearly spell that out

Totally disagree I think KK and MR have great chemistry much better than Clois which has zero at best...I loved Clana and was highly dissapointed with how the writers handled it last seasom, but now that Lana has moved on I think the acting in Lexana has been strong enuff for me to acknowledge that...They have accepted the role IMO and have done a good job with it despite the storyline...


Now to the general premise of Wither. Tell me if you think this is an engaging, imaginative storyline. A girl with the ability to control plants and needs males in order to procreate (and is one of the phantoms who escaped the PZ) is the main antagonist. Clark finds himself weakened by this girl's plant tombs (or whatever they were) and ordinarily this would signify some kryptonite connection (Clark's ONLY physical weakness). However, in a stroke of brilliance, what Clark was weakened by was some random space chemical (sarcasm). How can the writers consider this creative? I thought we'd really see some creative development but instead all we got was some pretty weak explanation, which is so disappointing to see.

While this was a FOTW ep it didn't totally feel like one IMO...The entire screentime didn't focus on it and what it did focus on was successful...I thought there was some real suspense and pathos in Clark's scenes with the villain..Given everyone in the ep and a LutherBall to boot it had good pacing without the FOTW storyline taking over...the blend of screentime between characters was good to me...

As for your disbelief over Clark being weakened you have to understand that these creatures are from different galaxies and aren't bound by SV's rules for Clark...Superman has to fight various creatures from other worlds that are as strong or powerful than him with Kryptonite not being an issue (Darkseid, Doomsday immediatley come to mind)...People in the phantom zone pose a threat beyond mere kryptonite...So you are all bent out of shape because Clark got weakened by something other than kryptonite based power?? Well don't read the comics because this happens to Supes endlessly in the future...Only Lex and other humans who are incapable of matching his strength or power will use kryptonite exclusively...I think you should get over that honestly...

I just think the FOTW storyline (while being the main plot) was still purposely underexposed because the Lex subplot and his guest needed time to develop, not to mention the "Chimmy" dynamic that I'm not quite sold on yet, but it didn't bother me this ep...

[MBCorp]

Because it seems trite and basic SV hatemongering because the ep didn't go the way you wanted it too...I didn't find anything boring about this ep...and since I'm not a Lexana hater I can't get mad and $hit on a whole episode based on a "hook-up"...If you thought it was sooooooooooooo boring and uniteresting I just don't get the triteness...Usually people want to complain about what was the specific source of complete boredem...

Don't put words in my mouth and make unfounded generalizations about why I didn't care for the episode. My dislike of the episode had practically nothing to do with Lexana, so stop it with the insulting generalizations.

[Gothabilly13]

I didn't like the episode..from start to finish....Now if I recall the title of this thread is... liked it? hated it? tell us what you think.

I won't explain my reasons for dislking this episode because I know some people wil take it like a personal blow and it's not.

I have loved these characters for YEARS...Been a comic collector and movie fan from when I was little. I liked where the show was going but the producers have strayed so far from the basics that it's no longer anything like the place they started.

And I am fairly sure they don't even like the Hero...so my question is pointed at DC..why give the youth of your most beloved character to two men who don't even like him?

[Crumble]

The only problem I had with this episode was the PZFOTW.

I mean, wot the hell was that about. She was basically this long legged, big breasted brunette with tight clothes. She didn't look menacing or anything. The yshould have chosen a better baddie for this week to scary the perjeebeez out CK.

Apart from that nothing else really bothered me. Even the Lexana scene was slightly watchable. And OQ was very sweet and charming which will give CK a run for his money (if he has any).

[InLove_with_Chloe]

Originally posted by Crumble
I mean, wot the hell was that about. She was basically this long legged, big breasted brunette with tight clothes. She didn't look menacing or anything. The yshould have chosen a better baddie for this week to scary the perjeebeez out CK.

Well, welcome to the new CW network.
I fear all the PZFOTW are going to look like that, from now on...

[manofsteel30]

I mean people who attempt to rally everyone to there negative view by saying strictly negative comments with little to no substance behind it for the purpose of just keeping the $hitstorm alive...I'm highly critical of many things past and present in SV, but I'm gonna say exactly what it is...If you hate an episode or anything about it that's fine, but say what it is, not just "SV sucks, the writers sucks, everything sucks..." etc,...Have a coherent viewpoint is all...Not just crying so people will cry with you..


Well actually I was simply trying to save the show I want to love by demanding more from television. There is no other network where this type of lazy, horrible writing would be acceptable. AND no other place where a 3% in the ratings for 6 years, sometimes better, sometimes worse, would keep a show alive. I'm glad it did because overall, I like some of what they've done. But sometimes, ok alot of times, they are really bad, like this one and "Ageless." Though "Thirst," "Magnetic," "Hypnotic," and "The one with the dumb Kryptonite Kool-Aide" were just as bad.

Also, my post certainly wasn't just a negative post about how suck suck suck and the writers suck suck suck. It was a post about this episode and about alot of the laziness overall. I liked last weeks episode and, with the exception of the plane being in the arctic so it could crash right outside the Fortress so Martha could go there, I thought the first ep was great. So don't tell me who I am or what I'm doing. I WISH this show was better. I WISH this show was everything it could be and should be because it SHOULD be so much more.

But since we're into telling people what they are and what they're doing on these boards. Since you've offered to pay my psych bills because you think the other eps I've mentioned were much worse than this and this was just a great effort episode all around. Since you seem to think writing this good can't be found anywhere on television. Let me tell you what I think you are thinking.

I think you are simply desperate to keep this show around so you are trying to rally everyone into thinking trash like this ep is good. What I would rather do is try to get the producers to notice that they need to improve. Perhaps if they had continuous, connected, quality stories instead of disjointed filler all the time like "Whither," they'd have something better than 3% viewership. I personally, would rather one episode a year if it were of high standards and good quality and if it didn't blaspheme the legend of Superman like Smallville does continually. But I totally understand your POV as well. Sometimes it's easier to try and hold onto something you want to love, rather than let it go because it gives you no love or respect in return. I felt that way at one time. "Gee, I hope there are enough good episodes of this show so that it stays on, even if the bad ones are so bad it seems that the writers must be monkeys on acid." But I don't feel that way anymore.

With shows like Lost, 24, Rescue Me and House on television, where quality writing and great performances come on a regular basis, why should the writers on Smallville be allowed to insult us like this. I continue to watch because I love the idea of what this show has been and still is from time to time. I hope it will turn around and I keep waiting to see if it will. There are moments in every episode that are cool but too many episodes that are lazy and disjointed and wrong. This isn't hate-mongering, it's just one man saying he deserves more respect from highly paid people who are lucky to have a job caring for the Superman legend, let alone getting paid VERY WELL to write what so often is utter garbage.

[Gothabilly13]

Originally posted by manofsteel30
With shows like Lost, 24, Rescue Me and House on television, where quality writing and great performances come on a regular basis, why should the writers on Smallville be allowed to insult us like this. I continue to watch because I love the idea of what this show has been and still is from time to time. I hope it will turn around and I keep waiting to see if it will. There are moments in every episode that are cool but too many episodes that are lazy and disjointed and wrong. This isn't hate-mongering, it's just one man saying he deserves more respect from highly paid people who are lucky to have a job caring for the Superman legend, let alone getting paid VERY WELL to write what so often is utter garbage. [/B]

Very well said...and I agree with you 100%. I keep watching cuz I hope they will get it right again...They have gotten it right on occasion....But it seems more and more to be a fading thing.
It's not hatemongering it's freedom of expression...which if I remember correctly is still a right in this country....But on this I could be wrong....

[TheOriginalKal-el]

Originally posted by manofsteel30
Well actually I was simply trying to save the show I want to love by demanding more from television. There is no other network where this type of lazy, horrible writing would be acceptable. AND no other place where a 3% in the ratings for 6 years, sometimes better, sometimes worse, would keep a show alive. I'm glad it did because overall, I like some of what they've done. But sometimes, ok alot of times, they are really bad, like this one and "Ageless." Though "Thirst," "Magnetic," "Hypnotic," and "The one with the dumb Kryptonite Kool-Aide" were just as bad.

Also, my post certainly wasn't just a negative post about how suck suck suck and the writers suck suck suck. It was a post about this episode and about alot of the laziness overall. I liked last weeks episode and, with the exception of the plane being in the arctic so it could crash right outside the Fortress so Martha could go there, I thought the first ep was great. So don't tell me who I am or what I'm doing. I WISH this show was better. I WISH this show was everything it could be and should be because it SHOULD be so much more.

But since we're into telling people what they are and what they're doing on these boards. Since you've offered to pay my psych bills because you think the other eps I've mentioned were much worse than this and this was just a great effort episode all around. Since you seem to think writing this good can't be found anywhere on television. Let me tell you what I think you are thinking.

I think you are simply desperate to keep this show around so you are trying to rally everyone into thinking trash like this ep is good. What I would rather do is try to get the producers to notice that they need to improve. Perhaps if they had continuous, connected, quality stories instead of disjointed filler all the time like "Whither," they'd have something better than 3% viewership. I personally, would rather one episode a year if it were of high standards and good quality and if it didn't blaspheme the legend of Superman like Smallville does continually. But I totally understand your POV as well. Sometimes it's easier to try and hold onto something you want to love, rather than let it go because it gives you no love or respect in return. I felt that way at one time. "Gee, I hope there are enough good episodes of this show so that it stays on, even if the bad ones are so bad it seems that the writers must be monkeys on acid." But I don't feel that way anymore.

With shows like Lost, 24, Rescue Me and House on television, where quality writing and great performances come on a regular basis, why should the writers on Smallville be allowed to insult us like this. I continue to watch because I love the idea of what this show has been and still is from time to time. I hope it will turn around and I keep waiting to see if it will. There are moments in every episode that are cool but too many episodes that are lazy and disjointed and wrong. This isn't hate-mongering, it's just one man saying he deserves more respect from highly paid people who are lucky to have a job caring for the Superman legend, let alone getting paid VERY WELL to write what so often is utter garbage.

Well said, I wholeheartedly agree.

[therip]

this is a bit delayed, and most probably seen it already, but i don't really care cause it's the best review ever!

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/tv.php?topic=reviews/smallville6-ep03

[President_Luthor]

Wither.

This was another episode where the relationship issues overwhelmed what seemed to be the actual core of the plot: that Clark's escape from the Zone unleashed several krypto-phantoms, including an especially scrumptious kryptonian 'poison ivy' phantom (More on glorious Gloria later. If she were any hotter, she'd start a forest fire :P).

Lex had the best lines, again. First, when he told Clark -again- that Clark's days of barging in unannounced are over (I don't think it's the first time he said that, either). Then he tells him "you're no longer welcome". Finally. After over five years, Lex clues in that Clark should sign in at the gatehouse like everyone else.

I also loved his line with Lana about being tired of paying for Clark's mistakes. Lana has trust issues, and she relishes shoving them in Lex's face. Sure, Lex probably had booty-call motivations, too, but it's also not fair that Lana should channel her Clark issues to the next warm body around. When you choose to live under Luthor's roof and remain in a relationship with him (the part that Clark can't seem to grasp), it sure ain't the Talon.

I should add that I thought the episode was alright. I found everything besides the main storyline more interesting. Not terrible, but not overwhelming either. I guess they had to "establish" that yes, there are all these relationships and Clark's not part of any of them. Maybe if he spent less time moping, and more time thinking.

Which brings us to Chloe saving the day ... again. Clark - the most powerful being in town - needs his bacon saved. When is the future leader of the JLA going to show more initiative (and by that I mean not rushing recklessly without being smart about it).

If Chloe and Jimmy are supposed to have chemistry, I didn't pick up on it. Maybe it's a bit early in their snugglefest, but I expected a bit more sizzle to it - especially with Chloe in Yet Another Halter Top (YOWZA!).

Oliver still has to establish his credentials, IMHO. The Lois/Oliver relationship had a bit more spark, but we'll have to wait and see if Green Arrow will be worthy as a founder of the JLA.

It seems that when TPTB get a guest star, their character doesn't get a chance to fully explore what they can do with the role ... because they're smothered by the endless angst, Great Scott the angst! I really liked Amber Mcdonald in her part, but her storyline didn't have a Gabe Sullivan of a chance against the might of Lexana, Chimmy and Loliver. On another note, I will go so far as to declare that Amber became the hottest woman on Smallville with her appearance on "Wither". Her park ranger scenes smouldered, compared to the anticlimactic Lexana bedfest. How dare they write off Amber like that. I want her to live, LIVE I say!

I know we were supposed to feel sorry for Clark, all alone in the loft with not even a telescope to play with :rolleyes: ... but after his non-action in saving the day (TPTB might as well get Chloe a costume) and his JK-inherited sanctimonious attitude, I can't feel bad. He wrote his fate, IMHO. Lex may be morally flawed and must also account for his flaws, but I agreed with Lex. Why should he put up with Clark and Lana's baggage any longer? He didn't have the purest of intentions with Lana, but he's also not supposed to be an apologist for Clark either.

I guess they needed to make an ep. like this, so that whenever they want to throw in gratuitous make-out sessions among the three triangles, they can simply say 'we established the romances in Wither'.

This ep. gets 3 seedlings out of 5. (And yes, the "Amber Factor" gave it a boost from a barely passing grade of 2.5, IMHO. We had her to thank for keeping this ep from being completely about angst, trust and jealousy).

I hope Ollie had the sense to toss that pop can in the recycling bin at the end. :lol:

[*#~ ClAnAfAn99210~#*]

this epi sucked a**!!!!!!!! i hated it!!!!!!!!! lexana is my least fav couple and lana should just die cuz of the way she treats clark!!!!!!!!!!

[Sweetie]

I thought it was weird even for this show.A freak of the week with the most ridiculous power that I ever see. I liked Chlimmy's scene at the beginning.Chloé was the hero again.I like her but,I wish that Clark can get out of trouble alone now.I liked the Loli'scenes.Oliver was cool and charming.

Lexana's story on this episode is just showing how Lana is REALLY the dumpest girl in the univers's of Smallville.She's asking Chloé for advices because she didn't fell too sure about Lex.She thought the all this thing threw and finally decide to have sex with the guy who put her life in danger numorous of time:rolleyes:

[Wingz Of Steel]

Longer analysis for THOSE who think I'm desperate and simple about my views about this episode...Listen closley as I hope you can explain your POV as well as me...

"Wither" huh? Well this week's episode really showed alot of things withering..."Wither" was a perfect title for this ep as symbolically Clark's friendship with Lex and relationship with Lana have all withered away leaving him disconnected from his former support group...It also meant our first ZOTW (Zoner of the Week), an escapee of the PZ whose mission was to spread her seeds to the unexpected male populous of Smallville.

The Good

Again the visual quality and cinematic values were really good. A lot of different shots in similar places which gave a cinematic feel. I liked the view of the forest that was shown and even the animated vines (in particular the scene where Jimmy had to orally ingest one) to be cool. Also liked the outside view of the greenhouse and the atmosphere throughout the episode. The shots of Lois entering Oliver's tower while he was exercising or Lana and Lex going down that hallway entering from a different side is just an example of the subtle camera-work that i have always really appreciated about this show.

I thought the plot and subplots of this episode really worked themselves out and had a pretty good pace about it. Given the amount of character interactions having nothing to do with the ZOTW plot each dynamic had a sliver of progression. I mean Loliver, Chimmy (Chimmy plus Chlark), Lexana, even Chloe and Lana's exchanges all had a purpose and moved along each pairing or dynamic without much forcing of the issue. At the same time the primary plot served it's purpose and gave us some thrills and unpredictability. The plot tried to lead the audience to think it was some guy infected with Kryptonite doing the killing instead of a PZ villain. The fact Clark was bleeding when he tried to remove the vines around that kid put doubt in the mind of the viewers of whether it was a K-powered FOTW or something else. For the most part I enjoyed all the romantic quirks between characters that were going on all episode (sometimes it doesn't work like it did in this ep), especially the one between Clark and Gloria where it seemed this girl would more likely be a new love interest for Clark rather than a new villain. So overall I enjoyed the plot for handling so much on the plate with relative ease.

I thought Tom Welling really brought his "A"-game this episode and he was spot-on with comedic timing and overall timing with his acting. For the first time in a very long time I saw an assertive and confident Clark going from scene to scene changing his emotions effortlessly and with subtlety. He used different parts of his persona so effectively in this episode. It started early on with his mother, then when finding out Chloe had a "sleep-over", then he had an absolutely commanding scene when he was being flirtatious and almost "Player-ish" in his scene with the ZOTW (When's the last time you've seen Clark be as confident in a scene with a new girl? Usually he's nervous and awkward)

I thought the Clex scene was also great with colorful banter and exchanges between the two characters (It ups the performance when Clark gets in his verbal jabs aswell). Clark saying, "SO even your plants have hidden agendas..." and approaching Lex in a manner to suggest that he was tired of holding his tongue was quite the show. He was stern and forceful and it's what I've been waiting for a while now in a Clex scene usually dominated with Lex's awesome wordplay which once again he delivered when saying to Clark ..."You've always had an eye for beauty" (to imply Lana) or "Sorry Clark, I'm out of evil...Lana must be a calming influence on me..." I had to chuckle when pressed by Clark about the strange vine he said, "And naturally you came to my little shop of horrors...." (remember that movie?^^). To think these two former best of friends would be at the point of visible disdain for one another was sad in a way yet so good in another. Lex telling him he was no longer welcomed was the icing to a very bitter scene. TW was great all episode in adjusting his emotions and I was glad to finally see a Clark with a backbone and a confident aggressiveness about him. Please continue this.

As for the 10-ton elephant in the room the Lexana Sexana scene love it or hate it was really good from a theatrical POV IMO. Lana being the one to initiate it by symbolically and literally taking off Lex's armor so to speak was pretty hawt. You could see the tenderness and guarded anticipation in Lana's eyes as she let Lex unwrap the tie in her dress. The song "Ache for You" in hindsight was so perfect during this and the Loliver arrow scene...When you first heard the lyrics it was like "What does this have to do with these moments?" until we see Clark at the end in one of his more pathos garnering moments. Again if you hate Lexana that's on you, but I won't let a pairing "hook-up" 100% take-away from what I thought OVERALL was a pretty good episode. I think how well they have done with the "adult-moments" (not just sex, but in conversations with one another) in Lexana makes it even more glaring how bad Clana was ended and finally written last season. If only Clana had been given the type of realism and adult progression this one has at times. It would have been nice regardless of them having to eventually break up.


Last but not least i though JH did a much better job this week. Perhaps because he likes working in scenes with women, heh...I don't know but he seemed to be much more comfortable and believably charming, and while Jimmy really annoyed me in ep 1 and early on in this ep, AA seemed to get going in terms of putting soul into the character and not just being there just to be there. I also thought ED did a pretty good job this week (and that's ALOT coming from me!) No glaring acting mishaps this week...




The Bad

Lana owns up to her mistakes in a well acted scene and asks Chloe for help and Chloe's advice is "Dive in" basically? O_o; Now is she being a real friend here or just pushing Lana away in a sense? I totally understood when she talked about Lex not even being on her list, but then she encourages it knowing how Clark feels? If I see one person bash Lana and not bash Chloe this week I'm gonna call you on it. I also thought Lana as Cleopatra would be even more awesome...Close up she was but far away I thought the overall ensemble could have been better. She looked much better without the head ornament. I also thought it was a bit snobbish that Lana didn't say hi to Lois when they met up (LOL), but whatever^^...Also as off-topic as this is can anyone tell me what Martha Kent dressed up as in this episode because she just looked like herself with a little more make-up on?? Did she dress up as 1996 Martha Kent or something? xD

Although this episode wasn't perfect the only thing about it that really bothered me was once again the final fight was too short and decisive. I would really love the writers to come up with scenarios that make Clark have to use multiple abilities or tactics in one fight, not just one ability on a whim. Obviously time didn't allow for it but the scene really started well and I loved the aggression Clark showed when he said, "You can't go home, I can't let you stay, so what are we gonna do?!?!" I thought the scene deserved better than a slap to the face then Clark fire-eyed to easily get rid of this villain. I thought Clark telling that dude "I'm the Gardner now get out!" was funny as hell though.

In the hospital where the boy had the plant grow out of him the doctor was a bit lame. I'd expect her to say something more along the lines of "OMFG!!! Holy mother of Jesus this guys a chia pet!!" instead of "Call his mother and I'm issuing a code red..." xD But this is SV so maybe that wasn't the worst she saw that week. Also the paramedics letting Chloe use the defribbulator was a bit far-fetched aswell.

Finally, No Lionel!!!!!!! Blasphemous!! (hehe) Even if it was just him writing some Kryptonian symbols on the back of a Chex cereal box while eating breakfast, I needs my John Glover fix each week dangit!! :closedeye

Overall I thought this ep was really well acted out especially from TW (who was great IMO) and PROGRESSED the plot (also the themes of the season) and character dynamics in a positive way. The way they ended the ep with that song was memorable and the plot concerning the ZOTW had a couple of unpredictable twists that I enjoyed. Just a good episode IMO that showed us in Clark's life what really has withered and I won't let a sex scene between two mutually feeling adults in a relationship ruin it for me.



My rating for "Wither”: 4 out of 5

[jimintn]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I'm sick of this soap opera crap! I couldn't tell if I was watching Smallville or Dawson's Creek. Just change Lana's name to Joey. Well, she's with Dawson-Clark this week. Then it's Pacey-Lex next week. Jen-Lois seems to go after every GQ model to hit town.

C O M E O N!

Get the FOS back up and running and put the focus back on Clark accepting his destiny.

I'm glad they're finally putting Lois on the path to journalism (even if it is with a tabloid), but what about Clark?

Does anybody plan on going to college any time soon?

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Longer analysis for the hatemongerers who think I'm desperate and simple about my views about this episode...Listen closley as I hope you can explain your POV as well as me..

Dude, if you want people to bother to take the time to read your incredibly lengthy review and to take what you say seriously then maybe you'd better not insult them beforehand. Just a little word of advice. :rolleyes: As it is: tl;dr.

[Wingz Of Steel]

I'm sorry, now please take me seriously (As if I haven't provided enuff of an indepth opinion)...Honestly though it's not that big of a deal to be hating SV, many eps have gotten under my skin, but this just wasn't one of them and as you can see in my analysis there was reason for that beyond the scope of me just screaming it was crap and boring...

[Korpan]

Did NOT like it, Lana is not my favourite caracter, but Lex IS.. so I dont want her fooling around with him!
Lex and Clark should have a romance that in the end when they brake up, makes them mortal enemies..
And that doesn´t seem to happen as long as little Lana is around..

[GooN]

i thought this episode was good, maybe because i was in a relatively good mood before i sat down to watch it, so i looked past any bad dialogue or crap acting (the nurse screaming and runnin out the room, hoho).

But even though i wasn't happy seeing Lana about to be ravaged by a bald billionaire who betrayed his alien ex-best friend, the episode was entertaining enough for me, was a bit confused at how the park ranger got electrocuted by sprinklers going off but hey, the job was done.

Some people need to calm down and not take this ish too seriously....

Don't

[Kryptonian-Ronin]

Originally posted by therip
this is a bit delayed, and most probably seen it already, but i don't really care cause it's the best review ever!

http://www.supermanhomepage.com/tv/tv.php?topic=reviews/smallville6-ep03


Crap, almost what I was gonna say, but kinder.
Maybe my wife's view can sum it up better and shorter:
" there is 50 mins of my life I will never get back".
Me: you know...Smallville was your idea, I wanted to see how far I could spit a cherry pit.
Wife: Hmmm, that would have been more interesting.

[manofsteel30]

I know Wingz isn't referring to me when he talks about simply yelling and calling it crap and boring. I went into great depth in several of my posts about the reasons I think this ep, and Smallville in general, has been on a continuous downhill slide since season 4, which was so far the worst season. Opinions are just that, opinions. I can't see how someone could have possibly liked this ep, but you are entitled. My refutes further on your newest review:


Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel


"Wither" huh? Well this week's episode really showed alot of things withering..."Wither" was a perfect title for this ep as symbolically Clark's friendship with Lex and relationship with Lana have all withered away leaving him disconnected from his former support group

Problem here is, we KNOW his relationship has "Wither"ed, as you say. In fact, we've KNOWN this since over a full season ago. Clark and Lex have not been friends since the end of season 3. They sort of reconciled a bit but it was never the same again. Plus, there never really was an overall definitive reason why Clark and Lex got on the outs. There were a few things they disagreed about or that Clark called him on, but the truth of the matter is (as with way to many storylines on Smallville) that the writers had no idea how to show Lex's progression from friend to enemy and from good to evil so they just said: "Ok, they're not friends anymore and he's evil now." So we're just supposed to accept that he is? I mean, we have no choice caue that's what they've done, but it doesn't mean there was any reasonable progression, just a few things and now: BANG, he's evil! Clark NEVER really had a relationship with Lana, beyond being a "friend" that Lana could berate every time he saved her life and every other time as well. But again, we KNOW that that relationship is gone too. Been some time for that one as well. (Once again, neither Clark, nor especially Lex, should want anything to do with Lana. She enhances nobody's life and brings nothing but angst to any relationship she encounters.)



Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
It also meant our first ZOTW (Zoner of the Week), an escapee of the PZ whose mission was to spread her seeds to the unexpected male populous of Smallville.

Problem with this "GOOD" is that it just wasn't. I LOVE the idea of finally having a reasonable explantion for why there are super-powereed villains for Clark to fight, but not when they are this horribly written and cheesy. First off, a weed was able to impale an invulnerable man through the chest. I'll repeat that, because it bears repeating. A WEED! Oh right, she was from the Phantom Zone so...that makes everything ok. NO IT DOESN'T. It was silly to have his hands bleeding from touching her and it was silly to have his chest impaled by a weed. A WEED! She was also a horrible actor. All of her lines were said in that campy, cheesy way that B-fest horror movie villains speak. That's definitely not what I watch Smallville for. Or maybe it wasn't her acting so much, as what they were trying to go for in this episode. That silly, B-horror fest cheese that just doesn't have a place on Smallville. Or at least a show that should be one of quality. In my mind, the Sci-Fi channel has never had a quality "original" movie on their network, but even "Mansquito" has it's place on THAT network, but not on Smallville.



Again the visual quality and cinematic values were really good.

That's the most unbelievable statement yet. I just don't understand how a person can say this, when this single episode had the worst effects that have EVER appeared on Smallville. 6 years ago, that's minus 6 years in technological effects enhancements, this show looked so much better than this episode. It was like they just took my daughter (who is 4 months old Thursday) and told her to draw in some vine-looking effects and that's what they used.


A lot of different shots in similar places which gave a cinematic feel.

I might agree IF there were any connection between scenes or plots. Again, everything in this episode just seemed underedited and out of place. They went from one scene to another with no particular transition and no connecting dialogue.



I liked the view of the forest that was shown

Far as I know, there ARE no forests like that in Kansas. Not really important, as the writers have already made it clear they have no knowledge of, nor care for, the actual layout of the world. Such as, at the end of this seasons premiere, when they showed that Phantom and the caption told us that it was in "Iguazu Falls, Patagonia, Argentina." Iguazu Falls is waaaay up North in Argentina and Patagonia is waaaay down South, close to center of the country. Here's a map someone provided to prove it:

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/6857/iguazufallspatagoniasx2.jpg

Furthermore, we know there are no mountains in Kansas, which they've shown on numerous occasions and there probably aren't many instances of evergreens. There are, however, in Vancouver coincidentally. Also, Metropolis is on the East Coast, not in Kansas. Doesn't anyone else thinks it takes something away from Metropolis being one of the busiest and most bustling, important cities on Earth if it's in Kansas? I have nothing against the midwest, it just isn't the center of any of our financial networks or global trade or important government offices or anything like that that would make it home to one of the most famous cities on Earth.



and even the animated vines

Already covered this. REALLY BAD EFFECTS.


(in particular the scene where Jimmy had to orally ingest one) to be cool. Also liked the outside view of the greenhouse and the atmosphere throughout the episode.

Having Jimmy orally ingest a horribly phallic-ly shaped weed was wrong on more levels than I can count but I'll cover a couple. One: were the producers going for the whole phallic thing? Two: Clark AND Jimmy are impaled by the same creature and...Jimmy LIVES??!!?!? Comparison: Clark is INVULNERABLE and Jimmy...well look, if I still need to explain why this just doesn't work then I don't know what show I'm watching anymore!

The greenhouse DID look cool and I do like some of the cinematic shots they give us on Ville. I've always like the mansion shots. Very majestic. Even if most of the shots are stock reused footage. I do find it odd though, that in 6 years, with all of the various views and shots we've gotten of the mansion, that we've never see this mysterious greenhouse, that magically and conceniently appears in an episode about plant-life gone bad. Wait. Read the last section of that last sentence and you tell me why THAT section of THAT sentence alone isn't enough to make this the worst episode ever. Or at least one of the worst. Here, I'll do it for you: an episode about PLANT LIFE GONE BAD! What is this "Attack of the Killer Tomatoes" or a show about Clark Kents rise to Superman?


I thought the plot and subplots of this episode really worked themselves out and had a pretty good pace about it. Given the amount of character interactions having nothing to do with the ZOTW plot each dynamic had a sliver of progression.

That's a problem though, isn't it. It goes to connectivity and editing to say that none of the progression or dynamics had anything to do with ANY of the others. Bothersome, lazy bad editing that just made this show fail on so many levels.


I mean Loliver, Chimmy (Chimmy plus Chlark), Lexana, even Chloe and Lana's exchanges all had a purpose and moved along each pairing or dynamic without much forcing of the issue.

The Lois/Oliver pairing is incredibly forced and doesn't make much sense. In the simplest sense, Lois has an interest in Mr. Queen because he's supposidly handsome and rich. In a more complicated sense...wait a minute, there is no more complicated way to look at this. Queen has had no development so far, Lois hasn't gotten to know him any better and knows nothing about him so those are the only two reasons Lois could have any interest in him. For a super-famous legendary female role model like Lois is supposed to me, it just doesn't sit well with me that she's willing to sleep with him if he can hit a can just because he's handsome and rich. Though I guess life WOULD be alot easier for Lois if she'd marry a rich man and then quickly divorce him, take half his money and then live on an island somewhere lounging around getting fat. Wait a moment, does that sound like Lois Lane to you? The girl marries a guy whose primary job provides NO MONEY WHATSOEVER!

The Jimmy/Chloe/Clark dynamic is even more forced. First, there is no chemistry at all between Chloe and Jimmy. In the car at the beginning of this episode, the interaction was so uncomfortable, so misplaced and so forced that I was barely staying awake for it. It wasn't interesting and it adds nothing to the story, other than arbitrary tension between Clark and these two. Clark has NEVER gone after Chloe, though he's had 5 years of opportunity. There's no reason for him to be jealous, other than so the show can keep the soap opera angst, however implausible, going. Ashmore is no Jimmy Olsen. But of course, this character, as written on this show, is no Jimmy Olsen either. Of course, he shouldn't even BE on this show, let alone Clark's age or older.

The Lexana? Shouldn't be happening. Period. Lex had never shown any particular love interest in Lana. He's always been more of a brother or adult role model for the permanently maturity-stunted Lana. Suddenly, last season, we're TOLD by the writers that Lex, who has no reason to be attracted to Lana (besides her questionable beauty), that Lex is "in love" with her. It came out of nowhere, for the simple reason that the writers wanted to create further tension between Lex, Clark and Lana. And that's what they did, they CREATED it. It doesn't actually make sense, viewers who think about it can't possibly buy it because it didn't come about in a progressive, natural way but hey, "we're writing Smallville, we can do anything we want because we only have three million viewers and the people who care only wanna see further Clark/Lana angst anyway."


The plot tried to lead the audience to think it was some guy infected with Kryptonite doing the killing instead of a PZ villain. The fact Clark was bleeding when he tried to remove the vines around that kid put doubt in the mind of the viewers of whether it was a K-powered FOTW or something else.

I don't feel that the plot successfully made the audience think...ANYTHING. I for one, never thought there was a guy running around infected with Kryptonite. For one reason, there NEVER was any Kryptonite. Instead, Clark bled and was impaled for no reason! A weed. I will admit that I had no idea the park ranger was the killer and I DID think that she was going to be a new love interest for Clark so I guess they succeeded there. The only problem with that is, of course, that it would have been completely contrived if she WERE a love interest for Clark conveniently placed simply because everyone else was doing the romance thing. I will say though, that's what I figured the writers were going for because that's the way they write on this show. Nothing makes sense as long as they come up with arbitrary tension and uninteresting "romance."


for the most part I enjoyed all the romantic quirks between characters that were going on all episode (sometimes it doesn't work like it did in this ep)

As I've stated above, at least for me, they really didn't work in this ep. Nor do they normally work on this show. Too much is forced and contrived simply for the sake of arbitrary jealousy and tension.


I thought Tom Welling really brought his "A"-game this episode and he was spot-on with comedic timing and overall timing with his acting. For the first time in a very long time I saw an assertive and confident Clark going from scene to scene changing his emotions effortlessly and with subtlety. He used different parts of his persona so effectively in this episode. It started early on with his mother, then when finding out Chloe had a "sleep-over", then he had an absolutely commanding scene when he was being flirtatious and almost "Player-ish" in his scene with the ZOTW (When's the last time you've seen Clark be as confident in a scene with a new girl? Usually he's nervous and awkward)

Tom wasn't too bad in many of his scenes. Unfortunately anything good he may have done was overshadowed by one of his first lines to the entity. Something like: "Go back where you came from...NOW!!" Very overdramatic and over the top acting. Just kinda made me laugh out loud at the outlandishness of it. In so far as him being so "player-ish" and confident, it's just another case of the Smallville writers having no sense of these characters or continuity. Characters suddenly make a fuill 180 simply because the writers think it will be interesting and then it isn't anyway? On first watch I did kindof smile a little because I thought I knew where they were going, but after I thought about it...had they gone that way it just wouldn't have been right because again, it would have been forced and created for no plausible reason and in no reasonable way. Clark DOESN'T act like this with women, you're right so don't question yourself and say it's a forwarding of character. It's much too sudden a way out of character moment with a perfect stranger that Clark has no reason to act that way with, other than the writers to try and fool us into thinking she's a new love interest. While THAT aspect of it did work for me until the real park ranger was revealed dead, that doesn't excuse them for the "twist" being the only reason it happened that way, because it wouldn't have. Not with these main characters. Clark just wouldn't act that way.


I thought the Clex scene was also great with colorful banter and exchanges between the two characters (It ups the performance when Clark gets in his verbal jabs aswell). Clark saying, "SO even your plants have hidden agendas..." and approaching Lex in a manner to suggest that he was tired of holding his tongue was quite the show. He was stern and forceful and it's what I've been waiting for a while now in a Clex scene usually dominated with Lex's awesome wordplay which once again he delivered when saying to Clark ..."You've always had an eye for beauty" (to imply Lana) or "Sorry Clark, I'm out of evil...Lana must be a calming influence on me..." I had to chuckle when pressed by Clark about the strange vine he said, "And naturally you came to my little shop of horrors...." (remember that movie?^^). To think these two former best of friends would be at the point of visible disdain for one another was sad in a way yet so good in another. Lex telling him he was no longer welcomed was the icing to a very bitter scene.

This scene was interesting and somewhat entertaining. Trouble is, we've seen it all before. The same tone, the same dialogue. In fact, much of what Lex said has been said word for word, in the exact tone once or twice before. "You're no lnger welcome here..." We know you've already said that. "The days of you barging into my home and...are over!" Again, a repeated line for the sake of tension the writers can't seem to come up with new ways of expressing. Clark's kine about the "plants having hidden agendas" was just too funny, but not really in a good way. I mean, read it again. It just sounds so insane, that on a show about the future Superman anyone would say "Even your plants have hidden agendas." I also love the fact that suddenly Lex has a greenhouse and...plants. Simply because we, once again, need Clark to invite himself into Lex's place so he can accuse the millionaire of something he, once again, ISN'T involved in just so that ONCE AGAIN, Lex can tell him he's no longer welcome and that Clark's not gonna do this anymore. "Yeah yeah Lex," said Clark. "You've said that at least two other times over the last two seasons and yet, here I still am, still doing it!"


As for the 10-ton elephant in the room the Lexana Sexana scene love it or hate it was really good from a theatrical POV IMO.

We are not in disagreement here. Lana and Lex are two good looking people and the scene was shot very well and looked really great. I must reitterate though, that KK uses a body double any time her skin is exposed so that wasn't really her being disrobed. You can kind of tell anyway because KK has nowhere near the shapely body of the model used here. KK is really rather board shaped and breast-less. The difficulty I have with the scene, as well as the relationship in general, is not that Lana is sleeping with "the devil" as some people have commented; but that Lex is supposidly interested in such a twit and that HE'S wasting HIS time on such a worthless human being. Her sole purpose on this show is to get into trouble, so Clark can save her and then she can ***** at him about what a terrible person he is. Oh, that and to ***** at everyone else about...well, anything every time she's in a scene. Furthermore, let's say I bought the Lex/Lana relationship, which I don't because it makes no sense, this scene is just another "way out of character moment." The continuity has been such that Lex and Lana barely have a relationship at all and that one minute she's threatening to break it off and Lex is giving her ultimatums and now suddenly they're having sex. Heck, they've barely even kissed. It's just a rushed relationship moment for the sake of arbitrary romance angst and another case of what they like to do in this show even though it makes no believable sense.


makes it even more glaring how bad Clana was ended and finally written last season.

How bad it was ended. You're right about that. The final breakup of two people who were never really a couple was WRITTEN horribly badly. Again, it was more arbitrary tension and simply there for the furtheration of the soap opera romance plotlines they love to use on this show. I just wish we had more real development and growth of these characters toward where we all know they're supposed to end up and less of the high school kiddie romance stuff. I half expect them to start giggling at the mention of the word sex or touching. This show is supposed to be about Clark's growth to Superman and Lex's growth to Supervillain. Everything else is supposed to be filler. EVERYTHING ELSE. Unfortunately, it isn't. Instead, the character growth and development is filler and those are lucky if they're even secondary. Usually the writers find ways to make that promary show purpose third or 4th on the list of things they get to. It's real shame.

But, as someone said either here or on another thread, the show's creators don't even really like Clark Kent/Superman. I know that they wanted to do a show about Bruce Wayne because "he's much more interesting," but Warner and DC wouldn't let them. Hence they continuously make fun of Superman on this show. On a show ABOUT SUPERMAN they coninuously make fun of him! The hate tights, they hate flights and they hate guys who are totally good. Therefore we see Clark, who should know better by now, doing bad things and out for revenge and...killing people. Because that's "more interesting" than someone being a good guy and doing good things and helping people because it's the right things to do and he's driven to do the right thing no matter what.


If only Clana had been given the type of realism and adult progression this one has at times.

Neither relationship has ever had the actual growth it should have for either of them to reach the point they have. The Clark and Lana thing has been the same since Lana found out Clark was interested. It's always been "If you're interested in me and you want to keep saving my life, you MUST do everything I tell you and everything I want or I will turn, fold my arms, pout and slam the door" and then tehy break up, even though they've never really been together. They would try it again, she'd do the same thing and then they'd break up (remember, never really together) they'd then try again and the same thing would occur. Now, Lex and Lana are supposidly seeing each other one minute, roommates the next, threatening to stop talking the next and then suddenly having sex. No actual progression here whatsoever, simply forced actions in order to forward what the writers must believe is an interesting angsty/tension filled romantic twist.



Last but not least i though JH did a much better job this week.

I think JH's acting is stiff and wooden and that he doesn't come off very believably. I'm still interested to see GA, even though Clark is supposed to be the founder of the JLA, the inspiration to all superheroes and the greatest leader by example there is. He's not supposed to be shown by the others, he's supposed to show them.


No glaring acting mishaps this week...

You're right. Except for the park ranger, Clark (at some points) and Jimmy (most of the time). Oh and the worst ever, the Nurse or Doctor running out of the room screaming about calling his mother. I laughed out loud to the point of spittake at the sheer bad-ness of the written word and the delivery of said word. I can almost forgive the actors because, as an actor myself, I can only imagine how they all must have felt when they were given this drivel and told it was going to be their job for the week. Rather than all quitting or striking, which may have been better than continuing in this vein, they decided to camp it up and try to have a good time while losing any intigrity they may have felt they, and this show, had.


Lana owns up to her mistakes in a well acted scene and asks Chloe for help and Chloe's advice is "Dive in" basically? O_o; Now is she being a real friend here or just pushing Lana away in a sense? I totally understood when she talked about Lex not even being on her list, but then she encourages it knowing how Clark feels? If I see one person bash Lana and not bash Chloe this week I'm gonna call you on it.

Lana owns up. First off, this is again an "out of character moment." I think I'll call those, since the writers do them and screw up continuity so often on this show, OOCM's. Lana NEVER own up. It's simply way OOC for her to do so. She always blames everyone else, yells at everyone else and pouts and *****es. That's just her character as written here. Nothing more. She brings nothing reasonable to this show, only unreasonableness. So, in this scene and for the first time ever, when she suddenly tries to spout reasonableness, it's a very OOCM. I would love it if this particular one would stick, simply because everyone, EVERYONE has to be tired of Lana's male cow excrement by now. But it needs to happen a little more gradually. Don't worry though, it won't because the writers and producers have said many various times that "Lana's had it tough," and "being in a relationship with Clark is hard on Lana" and that "Lana's greatest quality is that she cares too much for others." To that I say "When?" "How?" and "Huh?" Lana gets everything she wants all the time. She always has brand new cars and brand new clothes. She has no particular large source of income that I know of and yet she travels back and forth to the big city, which is at least 2 hours away, a few times an episode, proving that she somehow has endless cash for gas. Heck, I can barely pay for my one fillup a week. These college age kids are paying for three and four fillups a day. And why do they make these trips? So that they can yell at someone or tell someone something. No phones in Smallville's world? Furthermore, Lana's always being saved and always being catered to. Everyone thinks she's frickin wonderful and even strangers (case in point, the nameless character sorting costumes with Lex who compliments Lana's complexion - another laugh out loud moment in this ep) think she's amazng! As far as caring for others? I've never seen it, have you? If others are...HERSELF, then yeah I guess that's right.

Chloe's line to Lana in this scene is a very OOCM. Chloe would never say this, especially about Lex. Chloe now believes, although inexplicably and for no reason at first, that Lex is the antichrist. I remember the first time she called him evil, Lex literally had never done anything to her or anyone else that could even be considered evil. In fact, all Lex had done was offer to protect her and save her life when her house blew up, but hey, who am I to say those things qualify as evil. Again though, it's not Chloe or Lana's fault they do or say the things they do, it's the writers advancing the "story," as they call it, in very implausible, disconnected leaps that have no logical progression, they simply happen.


Although this episode wasn't perfect

Understatement of the entire television age.


I would really love the writers to come up with scenarios that make Clark have to use multiple abilities or tactics in one fight, not just one ability on a whim.

Murder from the most by the book hero of all time should NEVER only require ONE power.


Finally, No Lionel!!!!!!! Blasphemous!! (hehe) Even if it was just him writing some Kryptonian symbols on the back of a Chex cereal box while eating breakfast, I needs my John Glover fix each week dangit!! :closedeye

I used to love scenes with Lionel. Any scene because John Glover is so great in the role. The problem is, once again the writers and producers forget continuity and have no idea what they're doing with this character. He's bad, he's good. He tries to murder...everyone but now he's everyone's friend. He's a jerk, he's a great guy. He's a villain, he's a hero. I can't even follow anymore where we're supposed to be in the continuity of Lionel. You know why? Because there is no continuity. They have no actual clue with him, they just do whatever suits them for the particular day. And Martha, it's simply spitting on Jonathan's grave (you know, the good, strong loving husband that Clark killed last season with Jor-Els "help") to be in any sort of relationship with Lionel. Don't have him anywhere near your home. Spit on Lionel when he comes near you. Throw things at him from a distance, or maybe just leave him be. ANy of those things would be acceptable in the face of what Lionel has represented to everyone, especially the Kents and Martha. It also bothers me that it's just widely accepted now by Clark and his mother that Lionel just knows everything about Clark and his abilities and his birth world and birth father and that no one's worried about it or trying to make sure he's not using that knowledge badly. Nope, they just spend their time going to balls and hanging out with the sniffles. No reason to watch that guy. Heck, Lionel's wonderful!


Overall I thought this ep was really well acted out

It wasn't.


the plot

There was a plausible plot?


character dynamics in a positive way.

Where was there ANYTHING positive in this episode?


My rating for "Wither”: 4 out of 5 [/B]

I give "Whither" a 4 too. A 4 out of a million possible, and that's being generous.

[Dean_19]

This one was pretty dire. Looks like we've found this seasons 'Tomb' (or 'Fanatic' or 'Hypnotic'). Acutally I think this ep was worse than those three. Bad, bad, bad. The first two this season I thought were great. Y'know what I don't get? How come each ep has different writers?? No wonder some ep's are great and some are rubbsih!!

[manofsteel30]

I read Smallville magazine and in there they'd like us to believe they actually have writers meetings and that they plan out how the story arcs are going to go through the season. A certain team works on FOTW's, a certain team works on mythology's, a certain team works on romance arcs on the show. I don't believe any of this is true, as evidenced by the lack of continuity and missing understanding the writers seem to have about their own characters. If they were all together on this, the stories would link up more and there wouldn't be such horrible continuity problems.

[j_walk]

man i liked this episode alot...people are readin way too much in to something thats a SHOW....if this was a high budget movie, then ya some of the mistakes id be upset about too. smallvilles an amazing show, and the writers are doin a terriffic job. if u think u can do a better job, prove it. include endin any cliff hangers, character developments, etc.. JUS SIT BACK AND ENJOY THE SHOW IN ITS ENTIRETY, AND STOP DECIPHERIN EVERY SCENE TILL YOU FIND A MISTAKE.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Give me your own opinion, don't just TAKE QUOTES OUT OF CONTEXT and say the opposite of that quote...Anybody with half a brain can list a quote and say the ying of that yang...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall I thought this ep was really well acted out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It wasn't.

WTH?? This is your comback?

Please spare me dude...I respect your opinion and your right to $hit on everything Smalliville because the events of the series hasn't gone your way, but understand people have different perspectives and understand something called "CONTEXT" and can enjoy an episode without having to relate what happens in one episode to every episode that ever sucked or dissapointed us in the history of the show (which you are extremely doing)...Also the fact that you were fooled or caught offguard by the ZOTW potentially being a love interest proves the "twist" was effective (AS TW's acting this episode which I don't always applaud) You also have an extreme bias toward Lana's character and have no understanding of the reasons the two main characters are interested in her which I think is kinda sad...Blaming Lana and totally excusing Clark for being a major factor in shaping the mindset of her character is something I won't choose to do...So keep thinking the ep was 4 out of a million and watch a new show on Thursdays because you will never be satisfied and for sure you will never convert an independent thinker like myself that won't let the avalanche of negativity from any forum or memeber shape the way I evaluate or enjoy a particular episode of Smallville despite the problems it has


[Edited]...You also (In SEASON 6 no doubt) need to realize that Smallville is it's own entity not confounded by any particular comicbook lore (think of it as one of the Infinite Earths of the comic series and perhaps you won't have to cut yourself)...To still be angry Metropolis is in Kansas at this point tells me everything I need to know about your mindset. Smallville has pissed me off at various times and I still content season 3 was the best because of it's dark and serious nature, but I still enjoy individual eps and performances and will not let forum haters skew my point of view..I'm not a child and will step up and defend my side of things with no regrets against trite posters who've been posting they hate SV for 3 years yet watch each week to post how much more they hate it...I understand masochistic tendencies as I've displayed them before but some of you guys are too much thinking just saying the opposite of me will change my mind or review...

I'm curious, did you love Superman Returns? That will be really telling to me...I thought it was pretentious and poorly acted much like you feel about SV...

[lee_the_flee]

I didn't hate this episode, BUT:

I didn't like how they had all these romances going, and not much development on clarks part.

Speaking of clark, I also didn't like how Chloe solved the mystery of how to beat the villain yet again, making Clark look the usual lost+helpless self who just happens to be empowered. Superman is supposed to be smart! His brain cells are working at super speed! =)

Aside from that, the episode was alright.

But yeah, clark being alone in the ending was pretty cool!

xs -> with all these romances going, I hope the show doesn't turn into Dawsons Creek. Which was the direction the show was going in during Season 1 until they changed it. Now it seems they are regressing.

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Give me your own opinion, don't just TAKE QUOTES OUT OF CONTEXT and say the opposite of that quote...Anybody with half a brain can list a quote and say the ying of that yang...

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Overall I thought this ep was really well acted out
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It wasn't.

WTH?? This is your comback?

Please spare me dude...I respect your opinion and your right to $hit on everything Smalliville because the events of the series hasn't gone your way, but understand people have different perspectives and understand something called "CONTEXT" and can enjoy an episode without having to relate what happens in one episode to every episode that ever sucked or dissapointed us in the history of the show (which you are extremely doing)...You also have an extreme bias toward Lana's character and have no understanding of the reasons the two main characters are interested in her which I think is kinda sad...Blaming Lana and totally excusing Clark for being a major factor in shaping the mindset of her character is something I won't choose to do...So keep thinking the ep was 4 out of a million and watch a new show on Thursdays because you will never be satisfied and for sure you will never convert an independent thinker like myself that won't let the avalanche of negativity from any forum or memeber shape the way I evaluate or enjoy a particular episode of Smallville despite the problems it has


And honestly you should stop watching this show because it's obviously beneath you and won't ever change in the way you want it too...You also (In SEASON 6 no doubt) need to realize that Smallville is it's own entity not confounded by any particular comicbook lore (think of it as one of the Infinite Earths of the comic series and perhaps you won't have to cut yourself)...To still be angry Metropolis is in Kansas at this point tells me everything I need to know about your mindset. Smallville has pissed me off at various times and I still content season 3 was the best
because of it's dark and serious nature, but I still enjoy individual eps and performances and will not let forum haters skew my point of view..I'm not a child and will step up and defend my side of things with no regrets against trite posters who've been posting they hate SV for 3 years yet watch each week to post how much more they hate it...I understand masochistic tendencies as I've displayed them before but some of you guys are too much thinking just saying the opposite of me will change my mind or review...

I'm curious, did you love Superman Returns? That will be really telling to me...I thought it was pretentious and poorly acted much like you feel about SV...

Give me a break. You practically beg people to read your post and to reply to what you said, and then when they do (which I wouldn't have bothered to do, by the way. I know someone who's just trying to stir up trouble when I see it) you get all upset about what they say and start crying and complaining about it and getting overly defensive? Have you ever heard the old expression, if you can't take the heat stay out of the kitchen? :rolleyes:

[Wingz Of Steel]

MBCorp- Please dude come up with a better tactic...Never begged your a$$ to do anything...I was being sarcastic, and trust me I don't worry because the people who enjoy indepth reading will read my posts with no convincing...I don't have to get on the defensive because I didn't pop my head out of the ground like that "Pop a weasel" game and scream "This sucks, sooooo boring, crap..." then went about my merry way to "masochistic-ville" Don't read it, I doubt you could stomach it since any good words about Smallville might melt your skin off... Awaits your next post that will say nothing because you can't refute my analysis so you try these elementary comebacks to change the dynamics of the discussion...If you don't want to discuss a particular or specific point of debate concearning this ep, then stop wasting your time with such an obvious troll like me who chooses to actually breakdown an episode rather than say negative "rally" points to get people to jump to my side...What a minute don't trolls do that too? :o

[paolinki25]

Well, I guess some people hated the episode, cause they favor other ships than the ones portrayed here.

Personally, I think it was a good filler episode.

[RamonaE]

Originally posted by 2shae
I don't understand why so many people here hate this episode.

I thought it was putting the classic Smallville feeling back from the first couple of Seasons. The seasons that made me start watching Smallville in the first place!

http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/3571/lookatthedate1sf6.png

This was a terrible episode. It basically had no plot. It was marketed as a platform for the Green Arrow but it was actually about some crazy nature girl (formerly imprisoned in the PZ). If they had at least alluded to her being Poison Ivy, then it would have been cool. But no, b/c tying up lose on Smallville makes too much sense, they don't do it.

There was so much romance it made my head spin. I love romance and I actually like the ships that were presented (Lollie, Chimmy & Lexana). But they overdosed me. Perhaps I have ADD but I couldn't bear watching 3 romantic circles spinning at the speed of light, topped with candy-coated, sugary dialogue.

And then there's the storyline...this was basically a Freak of the Week episode, which is fine. But this was a poorly written and rather uncreative FOW, in addition to being doused in sexual pheromones.

But to each his own. I'm totally not insulting your opinion. I'm just sharing why I hate this episode. So far I've been disappointed with the beginning of this season.

Ho-hum.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by Poweranimals
I don't understand it either. Smallville is always going to include FOTW to some extent. There's only so many ways that you can challenge Clark physically. The FOTW was kind of creepy and Gloria had good chemistry with Clark.


Clark in this episode has a real commanding presence. He's definitely become more determined and confident. I really liked the scene at the end where he's all alone while the others are off. It's a really character building moment.

Lex was brilliant in this episode. He's becoming more evil. I liked how he threw the charity ball to try to gain a positive image in the public light and with Lana. I loved when he said, "I'm done paying for his mistakes.". The Lex and Clark scene was brilliant. You can really see what immortal enemies they've become and how fed up they are with each other. Lex's "The days of you showing up unannounced in my home are over. You're not welcome here." hit me hard. Brilliantly cold.

Complaining about Lexana is starting to get old at this point. They're going through with it no matter how much you complain and I really think it's great the more I see of it. All we know is Clark is not meant to be with Lana. A little corruption of her character is just what the character needs to push Clark away. It's not meant to end happily ever after all. I think it really adds to the plot of both Clark and Lex as they're forced to make life altering decisions.

I agree with everything in this quote...When Lexana ends (which it will undoubtably do) everything will calm down again...and everyone will start killing the show for something else...Inwhich some of it will be fair and some ridiculously unfair...I'm also glad to see I'm not the only one who saw a subtle yet definate change in Clark's presence this episode...

[manofsteel30]

Originally posted by j_walk
man i liked this episode alot...people are readin way too much in to something thats a SHOW....if this was a high budget movie, then ya some of the mistakes id be upset about too. smallvilles an amazing show, and the writers are doin a terriffic job. if u think u can do a better job, prove it. include endin any cliff hangers, character developments, etc.. JUS SIT BACK AND ENJOY THE SHOW IN ITS ENTIRETY, AND STOP DECIPHERIN EVERY SCENE TILL YOU FIND A MISTAKE.

Believe me, just about anyone could do a better job with continuity and character development than these guys. In fact, they HAVE been doing it for the better part of almost 70 years of stories.

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by manofsteel30
Believe me, just about anyone could do a better job with continuity and character development than these guys. In fact, they HAVE been doing it for the better part of almost 70 years of stories.

Yeah that's why Supergirl, Superman 3 and 4, Superboy TV series and Lois and Clark was soooooooooo critically successful?? :rolleyes: (Those 2 series couldn't even get picked up for 5 seasons) Smallville re-energized the entire Supes franchise that was running on empty for more years than I can count...This includes the Supes comicbooks that were dragging seriously as documented in the Superman Returns Documentary on A&E this summer...Believe me SMALLVILLE in it's 6th season HAS been holding it's weight despite whatever problems you've percieved...Talk about overkill, sheeesh...70 years, lets be real here :rolleyes: Without Smallville Supes Return doesn't even see the light of day...without SV Supes franchise would be covered in cobwebs right now...The show has had some problems without a doubt but you are overreacting seriously...

[manofsteel30]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
[B]Give me your own opinion, don't just TAKE QUOTES OUT OF CONTEXT and say the opposite of that quote...Anybody with half a brain can list a quote and say the ying of that yang...[QUOTE]

This was the problem we had last time. You take one part of what I said and not the explanation. First off, I didn't start on this thread by simply "hating," as you and all the twelve year olds are fond of saying, I started by explaining what was wrong with Smallville AND this episode in general and then I too broke it down. Then, because you didn't like my explaination, I tried to explain it further. I am actually enjoying this, by the way, and I love the fact that so many different people can have so many differing points of view. My comeback to most of your opinions was yes, to disagree, but then to explain in great depth why I disagreed. But that was long after I had already gone into great depth about why I didn't like it and have alot of problems with Smallville in general.

I am not one of the posters who just said "sucked" or "boring." I gave in depth analysis of many scenes, the plot and the direction of the series in general. Also, I have no desire to change anyone's mind about anything. In fact, I hope we keep the fans we have because the one's we've lost (due to the lack of creativity, continuity and connectivity on the writer's parts) may start to hurt us sooner rather than later. I've already been hearing the rumors and opinions that this might be the last year of this show. That would be the last thing I'd want. What I'm trying to do is get someone to notice that some of the quality of this show has gone down. In alot of ways the writer's have gotten lazy and yes, seeing the same recycled Lana pouting and Lex telling Clark he's not welcome and Clark pining for Lana is bored and tiresome and played out. Enough already. Do something new. The romance and who can have sex with who in the cast is too much now. What I like are good stories about developing characters and some decent thrilling plot elements. For me, all too often, the writers don't manage that.

My greatest desire would have been for this show to ALWAYS have been a serious take on the legend of Clark Kent becoming Superman, even if, as you say, it were an Elseworlds tale where not everything was a particular comics continuity. What I can't take is the silliness and the lack of continuity. Lionel changing back and forth with no way for the viewer to know why or in what direction he's facing. Lex simply "becoming" evil with no real reason or build. One week he's giving money to orphanages and the next he's torturing Aquaman - somethign we've never seen him or heard about him doing. Simply because the writer's decided it was time for it to happen.

These are some of the examples of what bugs me. I'm not a hater and I'm not a rally-er or mongerer. My only purpose here...well, actually there were two. One was to express my extreme frustration over this particular episode of Smallville, which then lead to me tearing apart alot of the bad writing aspects of the show, and I listed in detail all of those things multiple times in multiple different ways. Two was to try and plead for things to change. All I'm asking is for good, thought provoking stories about character and the subject this show WAS supposed to be about. I feel we've gotten away from the hero becoming the hero and the villain becoming the villain. Instead we've descended to a weekly sex-fest of whow can get with who and a high school jab-fest where every week people try to emotionally scar each other, while others are in danger that they could help if they weren't busy pouting and arguing.

The Lana thing. Yeah, it's clear you didn't read my explaination on that. I made it clear that I didn't always feel that way. Point is, Lana has just become unbearable. And no, I don't blame Clark for her being the way she is. the only thing he's done is save her life continuously, give her endless devotion and everything she could want and yet she always wants more. There will always be parts of every persons life that aren't completely divulged to every one else they know. If Lana would have let things lie and just been a trustworthy friend and then, possibly girlfriend, which she never really became, perhaps Clark could have chosen to tell her the secrets of his life. His lies about that part of him are to protect him, his family AND yes, everyone else in his life, including Lana. Just because someone doesn't do exactly what you want them too doesn't mean it's right for you to berate them every chance you get and treat them like garbage. Of course, we're way off topic here since the topic is whether we liked this show or not. However, I think I've made it abundantly clear in all of my various in depth posts, that believe me, people are bored of reading or have just been skipping altogether, that I did not.




[QUOTE][Edited]...You also (In SEASON 6 no doubt) need to realize that Smallville is it's own entity not confounded by any particular comicbook lore[QUOTE]

Problem there is, it didn't need to be that way. People who make Superman movies and TV shows for some reason, always feel they need to "change things up" and define a hero for a new generation. What these guys really meant was, and they've as much as said it: "We don't really like Superman, we've never really found him interesting, so we're going to do our own thing to make him interesting." Next time, just work on another hero. But don't get me wrong, I'm very glad Smallville was here. I'm a big fan. In fact, I would say the fact that I'm so passionate about the slide we're on and the poor writing for the last few years (off and on mind you it's not always as bad as this. If it were, you're right, I'd be much better off not watching.) is a testament for my desire to see this show become all it can be. It's not too late. If I were to sit back and simply acccept everything they threw at me, which some might choose to do, it would say to me that I really don't care what I get as long as I get something. In fact, that's part of the reason I'm still watching, and have watched past Superman incarnations on film, because apparantly we Superman fans just need to take what we can get. None of the various live action incarnations have ever been right. It's unfortunate is all. I wish these people would take a page from Raimi's book. While some minor changes were made, those Spiderman movies are damn good.

For the record, I did like SR alot. I also oftentimes like SV alot. You are trying to make it sound as if I don't like the show. Couldn't be further from the truth. I don't like the creators choices, I don't feel it's always written smartly and I wish it had reached ehat I saw in the early seasons as it's potential. It hasn't and I still hope it can be salvaged somehow. I watch for the good episodes, and for even in the bad ones when there are good character moments or drama abd I watch because I do like the idea and I love SOME of the charactrers, especially when they act as they are supposed to. Even if they are different from their comic book counterparts, they should at least stay in the character they've been written as and I feel the writers often don't seem to remember what that is.

SR suffered from alot of the same syndrome as Smallville often does. The writers felt Superman was boring and there was nothing that could be done with him to make him interesting unless they made drastic changes in the character and in the mythology. I felt the acting was pretty good from most of the cast. Langella was poorly cast, as he's no Perry White. Bosworth is not really a great Lois Lane, while pretty, she doesn't have the tough as nails thing down. Routh was surprisingly great as both Clark and Superman. Spacey, who did a great job as a menacing Lex Luthor, was much better when he was outside of the campiness the writers felt that, even after 20 years, this film still needed. It's unfortunate that we couldn't have a fresh start and not rely so much on the Donner films. It's unfortunate that these movie and TV makers feel that we can never have a serious, thrilling, dramatic portrayal of the events in our Man of Steel's life. The action and effects in SR were top notch and the story was half good. I think its the best Superman movie ever made, but in my opinion, against the Donner films, that's not saying much either. I loved those as a child, but they've become sillier and sillier as I've grown older. I still like them for what they are, but I haven't yet seen the Superman movie that I think the character deserves. Be true, that's all we need, true and respectful of the material. That's it...and it's really pretty simple.

[Wingz Of Steel]

manofsteel you shouldn't have taken anything personal if it wasn't you...The person I was talking about knows who they were and I did read some of your analysis (Most of which I disagree)...



The Lana thing. Yeah, it's clear you didn't read my explaination on that. I made it clear that I didn't always feel that way. Point is, Lana has just become unbearable. And no, I don't blame Clark for her being the way she is. the only thing he's done is save her life continuously, give her endless devotion and everything she could want and yet she always wants more.
More?? More like honesty? Like not being lied to like a child? Having her heart broken repeatedly? Hey Lana hasn't been perfect by any stretch, but if you think Clark has handle her well in their relationship and isn't responsible for any of her development as a character then you are simply being bias....



Problem there is, it didn't need to be that way. People who make Superman movies and TV shows for some reason, always feel they need to "change things up" and define a hero for a new generation. What these guys really meant was, and they've as much as said it: "We don't really like Superman, we've never really found him interesting, so we're going to do our own thing to make him interesting." Next time, just work on another hero. But don't get me wrong, I'm very glad Smallville was here. I'm a big fan. In fact, I would say the fact that I'm so passionate about the slide we're on and the poor writing for the last few years (off and on mind you it's not always as bad as this. If it were, you're right, I'd be much better off not watching.) is a testament for my desire to see this show become all it can be. It's not too late. If I were to sit back and simply acccept everything they threw at me, which some might choose to do, it would say to me that I really don't care what I get as long as I get something. In fact, that's part of the reason I'm still watching, and have watched past Superman incarnations on film, because apparantly we Superman fans just need to take what we can get. None of the various live action incarnations have ever been right. It's unfortunate is all. I wish these people would take a page from Raimi's book. While some minor changes were made, those Spiderman movies are damn good.

Well this points to you having a problem with the entire philosophy of the show and if you are not over it by now in season 6 you never will be...It's just torture...Stop torturing yourself...I love Superman but I'd be preaching an idiots' sermon to say this character has as many complexities as Spiderman or Batman (in-terms of where you can take the character)...Superman's abilities are so endlessly great it is hard to create good stories with him without at some point it getting stale to a degree...What I have always liked about Smallville is that they made a character so hard to make contemporary just that...Now that's not to say they haven't had problems (Most glaring Season 5's second half which was poorly excuted at best), but now that it's over I'm moving on to this season and I'm going to choose to enjoy what i deem enjoyable...

I hear you and do not lump you in with those who are simply hating or rallying...You have made me realize this, but we do disagree on many aspects of this series. I actually did enjoy Supes Returns because my expectations were extremely low as I pretty much hated the actor, and the suit, and the Lois, but it was better than I thought...Still thought it was average at best but not without some value...I gotta say though if you take that plane-scene out I'm not sure what that movie would be...Brandon Routh as Clark Kent was sad IMO as "Clark" had no dynamic with the rest of the cast...He was also treated like a rookie quaterback in the NFL as they dumbed down the playbook for him giving him the least amount of dialouge I have ever seen a main character in a movie ever recieve...I enjoy the actors in Smallville waaay more than that movie and the reason I think it was less successful was tht it didn't incorporate any of the contemporary changes or concepts that made SV a hit at it's peak...Supes just doesn't work when you try to make the movie dark and serious...It needs to be wonder and adventure...But SV can make it work because of how they changed some concepts of the character...

AS for the rest you have failed to answer this quote


Yeah that's why Supergirl, Superman 3 and 4, Superboy TV series and Lois and Clark was soooooooooo critically successful?? (Those 2 series couldn't even get picked up for 5 seasons) Smallville re-energized the entire Supes franchise that was running on empty for more years than I can count...This includes the Supes comicbooks that were dragging seriously as documented in the Superman Returns Documentary on A&E this summer...Believe me SMALLVILLE in it's 6th season HAS been holding it's weight despite whatever problems you've percieved...Talk about overkill, sheeesh...70 years, lets be real here Without Smallville Supes Return doesn't even see the light of day...without SV Supes franchise would be covered in cobwebs right now...The show has had some problems without a doubt but you are overreacting seriously...

Whether you want to believe it or not, telling Supes in a non-conventional or Campy way has not been overwhelmingly successful in TV or the movies recently (which is the BOTTOMLINE)...Smallville has passed the test of being the longest lasting Supes TV series ever and I wouldn't expect them in season 6 to start faithfully telling an entire mythos based story when they never have...

[MBCorp]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
MBCorp- Please dude come up with a better tactic...Never begged your a$$ to do anything...I was being sarcastic, and trust me I don't worry because the people who enjoy indepth reading will read my posts with no convincing...I don't have to get on the defensive because I didn't pop my head out of the ground like that "Pop a weasel" game and scream "This sucks, sooooo boring, crap..." then went about my merry way to "masochistic-ville" Don't read it, I doubt you could stomach it since any good words about Smallville might melt your skin off... Awaits your next post that will say nothing because you can't refute my analysis so you try these elementary comebacks to change the dynamics of the discussion...If you don't want to discuss a particular or specific point of debate concearning this ep, then stop wasting your time with such an obvious troll like me who chooses to actually breakdown an episode rather than say negative "rally" points to get people to jump to my side...What a minute don't trolls do that too? :o

Wingz, I've hardly posted anything about this episode so I'm not sure what you mean by "hatemongering" and "rallying". For one thing, you're totally misusing the word "rallying" but we'll overlook that. You attacked me for my negative review because of its brevity, but have you ever thought that maybe it was short because I don't feel like talking or thinking much about a disappointing episode? I posted tons on the Zod forum and gave a lengthy positive review because I liked that episode. If I was hatemongering I would have posted lengthy posts bashing this episode over and over again, but I've basically ignored it.

I would also have probably replied to your analysis but you come off as being so hostile and with such an attitude problem, basically bashing anyone who disagrees with you, that it doesn't really make me want to get into a serious debate with you. Havne't you noticed that everyone except for manofsteel30 is basically ignoring your posts? All of this "hatemongering" and "rallying" talk doesn't exactly lend itself to friendly debate.

[shirkie]

Guys, stop accusing each other of being "trolls" and "hatemongers" and yada yada yada. Don't talk about each other, TALK ABOUT THE SHOW. Stay on topic.
shirkie

[Wingz Of Steel]

Originally posted by MBCorp
Wingz, I've hardly posted anything about this episode so I'm not sure what you mean by "hatemongering" and "rallying". For one thing, you're totally misusing the word "rallying" but we'll overlook that. You attacked me for my negative review because of its brevity, but have you ever thought that maybe it was short because I don't feel like talking or thinking much about a disappointing episode? I posted tons on the Zod forum and gave a lengthy positive review because I liked that episode. If I was hatemongering I would have posted lengthy posts bashing this episode over and over again, but I've basically ignored it.

I would also have probably replied to your analysis but you come off as being so hostile and with such an attitude problem, basically bashing anyone who disagrees with you, that it doesn't really make me want to get into a serious debate with you. Havne't you noticed that everyone except for manofsteel30 is basically ignoring your posts? All of this "hatemongering" and "rallying" talk doesn't exactly lend itself to friendly debate.


Well I've been here before and I've seen that the discussion on episodes really peaks on that Friday, so any GOOOD discussion after that I'll take...I don't thin k people are ignoring me as much as they don't have much to say or refute...


Once again when I said "hatemongering" I meant the mentality I've seen on many boards after any episode...Obviously it was over the top, but I meant it to be to get my message across...If it ain't you don't let it bother you...But honestly it just kills me when people post negative stuff with no substance to it as it tends to come across as "hating" or just piling on for the sake of being... Trust me I know what rallying means and when I SEE IT...You were pretty harsh to me aswell and if you want to squash this matter I'm all for it and will even apologize if it be needed...but now we are beyond that and regardless of my attitude I beleive my analysis and points of debate speak for themselves...certainly louder than most IMO...If you have a problem with my analysis you want to address sobeit...we can start fresh and look at the facts...I'm honenstly quite rational and friendly, but sometimes my nerves get bad because I tire of reading so many hateful posts with nothing behind them...So with that I apologize...

[MBCorp]

Wingz, I sent you a pm about this so I wouldn't be taking it off topic again.

[GooN]

my god, u ppl write too much....short and sweet is the way to go. (only in post writing)
:D

[red-K glory]

Well I must that I very disappointed with this episode. It did have good stuff like the interaction between Lois and Olliver Queen, and the Clark/Chloe/Jimmy stuff was also interesting but everything else was terrible. I mean a plant lady from the Phantom Zone? I would have expected more of an interesting criminal from the PZ than a stupid plant lady who was not even that hot or who had no interesting abilities, and what is worse is the Lana/Lex story arc. it is so stupid and pointless.Lex is a total jerk and Lana is once again being stupid and falling for his act. The show would simply be better off without LANA. This show is about Clark not Lana and her stupid soap opera life. and the ending to the episode was stupid. Of course Lex and Lana are going to have sex then lana will get pregnant and then the show will turn into more of a soap opera. Smallville is just one of those shows where sex or soap operaish story lines are not necessary. It is about Clark Kent not Lana. Get it right Al/Miles.
The season started of great with Zod and Sneeze but wither was overall a load of junk! I hope Arrow is a lot better.

[wildcat]

God, I thought this epi was pure crap. And I usually never say that, even with thirst!

I was just so BORED and even if I think an epi isn't so good (like thirst) I'm rarely bored watching it. This was just...I don't know. I hope my feelings for this show aren't changing, but the writers aren't really helping the situation.

And lana?! What the hell are they doing? I'm usually ambivalent to her, I never had any hatred to her in the past, but here I just wanted to slap the mess out of her.

Why would they write her *****ing at lex for what the tabloids are writing? Why catch an attitude with the costumer?

Are they purposely trying to make her look bad so we'll understand why Clark won't want to be with her in the future? THat's the only rationale I can come up with for the character's treatment by the writers. THey can't possibly think we would be sympathetic to her.

Can they?

[manofsteel30]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
but if you think Clark has handle her well in their relationship and isn't responsible for any of her development as a character then you are simply being bias....

In any relationship, obviously both parties are responsible for the mistakes they've made. Hoewever, I just feel that Lana, not just with Clark, is always pouting, yelling at people and expecting too much from everyone. The only reason the writers ive us that the rest of the characters accept this is...well, none. Lana's never done anything to garner forgiveness. She's never committed a seflless act, she's never apologized for anything and she's never (beyond this episode where it was retracted immediately) admitted that any of her problems are a cause of her attitude or personality.

Clark, on the other hand, (and heck, even LEX up to this point) HAS done a great many things that help lossen the hoook on him. I'm not saying doing good things immediately forgives you for the bad, and the writers gave him a horrible way to break it off with her when he finally did so that makes him seem much worse than he had to be. However, throughout the relationship, Clark only kept secrets from her about his origins and powers. He STILL doesn't know who he can trust and based on her actions with others, it's clear to me that it's not Lana. Everytime Lana says she won't tell someone something she always does. Aside from trust, Clark has protective reasons for not telling people too. We know this about Pete; Clark witnessed what could happen first hand if enemies found out that people close to him knew the secret. Clark's parents are constantly in danger simply because the bad guys go right to them when they find out the truth about Clark. Lex has paid for things for everyone on the show, helpeed everyone out of jams and proven (at least until recently and even then without any real explaination from the writers, just "Lex's evil now, suddenly and with no gradual progression) that his friends and relationships matter. Lana has never done any such thing. It's seems evident to me, that not just with Clark, but with everyone, Lana matters to Lana and no one else.



Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Well this points to you having a problem with the entire philosophy of the show and if you are not over it by now in season 6 you never will be...It's just torture...Stop torturing yourself...I love Superman but I'd be preaching an idiots' sermon to say this character has as many complexities as Spiderman or Batman (in-terms of where you can take the character)...Superman's abilities are so endlessly great it is hard to create good stories with him without at some point it getting stale to a degree...What I have always liked about Smallville is that they made a character so hard to make contemporary just that...

There are a number of things I disagree with here. Let's start with my having a problem with the philosophy of the show. Based on what the riters and "creators" have shown me, I believe their philosophy is: "We never really like Superman, nor his supporting cast, and since we were turned down when we asked to do a show about Bruce Wayne, let's see if we can't make Superman more likeable to us and everyone else by making this Clark more like Batman." I said in a previous post, they've said as much. So no, I'm not crazy about the idea of two guys who don't respect, or even like Superman, being allowed to make a show about him. But with DC and Warner, the companies that allowed Catwoman to grace the screen, I guess it should be expected.

I certainly don't think it's an idiot's sermon to think that Superman is just as interesting as Batman or Spiderman. Superman is an ideal. Someone we can actually look up to. Batman is not. Everyone makes mistakes, yes, and Superman's are interesting to see, when explored in a reasonable and not entire-character compromising way. Batman is a revenge seeking, violent, anti-social hero that does we he does to fullfill guilt and the void of his missing parents. Same with Spidey, though he's much more a likeable, fun guy, Spidey does what he does (or at least started doing) because he was responsible for the death of Uncle Ben. We shouldn't see Clark Kent becoming Superman because he's guilty over having been responsible for Lana's parents death, or because he went "bad" in Metropolis or because he's the reason Lex goes bad or because he's guilty about being the cause of Pa's death. I certainly don't mind some reimaginings and some changes, but some of these are very hard to take. But I do think that Superman is the most interesting. To me, it's so much more fun to see what we COULD be, if we all just had the will power and the wherewithall to fight the good fight, as Superman does.

I think it's simply lazy for the writers to say: "well Superman's not as interesting as Batman so let's just make him..Batman." The reason Superman's special is because he's not like everyone else. He does what must be done because he knows it must be so. Not because he's angry, though he has been many times, not because he's guilty, though guilt stories can also be interesting. But because he's driven to do what's right. The writers instead should try to come up with new ways to tell the story that don't compromise the integrity of the character. Making Superman contemporary doesn't mean changing him into something he isn't, or worse, into something that every other hero already represents. Superman is not brooding and hesitant. He loves helping others and he loves life on Earth. The best way to tell stories about Superman is to show his difficulty in dealing with everyday life. Clark Kent cares about having a regular life, in addition to being Superman. Bruce Wayne does not. Superman is much more human than Bats and to see that is interesting. Superman is the ultimate immigrant story. The immigrant who comes to another world and makes llife better, not only for himself, but for everyone he comes into contact with.

In reference to Superman Returns, you said:


Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
I pretty much hated the actor, and the suit, and the Lois, but it was better than I thought...Still thought it was average at best but not without some value...I gotta say though if you take that plane-scene out I'm not sure what that movie would be...Brandon Routh as Clark Kent was sad IMO as "Clark" had no dynamic with the rest of the cast...He was also treated like a rookie quaterback in the NFL as they dumbed down the playbook for him giving him the least amount of dialouge I have ever seen a main character in a movie ever recieve...

I thought Brandon did an excellent job of portraying both Clark and Superman. I really enjoyed how they played down the nerdy aspect and really showed us how Clark turns that on when he feels people might be on to him and therefore throws them off. Bosworth is very pretty as Lois but very much too fragile and actually alot lot Lana in Smallvilel as a character. She curses Superman for saving her, blames him for the way her life is and for the way she feels and passive-aggressively makes jabbing, hurtful statements that will serve no purpose for anyone. The one different thing about Lois in SR is that at the end of the film, you can see she's sorry and that she's ready to apologize but simply doesn't know how.

I was a little concerned about the suit at first but I think it ended up looking great. It pretty much IS Superman's suit with some minor tweakings. But if a few design changes in the suit bother you so much, I'm really surprised an evil Jor-El, a revenge-seeking Clark and so many other changes to the mythos in Smallville don't.


As far as the plane scene, it was definitely incredible to watch. However, I think there was a great deal more to see in the movie. All of the Superfeats were amazing. Superman has never looked better flying and using his powers. You're right when you say Clark had very little dialogue. However, Brandon's best moment came from his acting without words. Perhaps it's because that's what they forced him to do, but I found it very effective. You could tell the times when his heart sank, when he felt hurt and just the way he expressed his various emotions was very well done. I'd say he was the best actor in this movie.



Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
I enjoy the actors in Smallville waaay more than that movie and the reason I think it was less successful was tht it didn't incorporate any of the contemporary changes or concepts that made SV a hit at it's peak...


You know, I kindof like the actors more on Smallville as well...in general. I think it would have been great to actually see the transition to the people they would have to become in order to be in SR. I was so pumped about the possiblilty that Tom Welling might be cast as Supes and I still think he would have been better. Not because Brandon didn't do a good job, just because I think Tom really works for the role. Erica Durance should have dark hair, but she's better rough and tumble Lois, when they don't make the many out of character mistakes they often make with her. I have no problem with Martha, other than the impending and existing relationship with Lionel. It makes no sense, and the writers don't even try to make it make sense. They just say: "Here it is, like it or not."

I would argue that SR was not at all less successful than Smallville. I haven't figured out the exact numbers of course, but Smallville has had 5 plus years to amass whatever millions it would have amassed if each person watching was paying for a ticket, and you have to assume that for the most part, the same people who are watching now, were watching in the beginning. At it's highest, Smallville's ratings have never gone above 5 million or so. That means that if we add 5 million viewers, figuring that some people have dropped off for how silly it often is, that we come up with 10 million different viewers of Smallville over it's entire run. If only 10 million people saw SR, it would have made alot less than 300 million dollars. On any other network, Smallville would have been long ago yanked off the air. I'm glad it was on the WB, because believe it or not, I do enjoy watching it.


Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Supes just doesn't work when you try to make the movie dark and serious...It needs to be wonder and adventure...But SV can make it work because of how they changed some concepts of the character...

I think that Superman can definitely work in a darker and more serious toned film. I think SR is a darker and more serious toned film than the Donner films were. I still don't think the threats are dark enough and I still think Lex was done all wrong, but I have hope for the sequel. Metropolis can still be a bright star and Superman can still be the positive, inspiring role model that he is, even if he faces dark times and bad people. It's been proven time and again in the comics. Believe me, as a constant reader for almost 15 years, I KNOW that there have been a great many tragic, dramatic, dark storylines.


Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
AS for the rest you have failed to answer this quote:

Yeah that's why Supergirl, Superman 3 and 4, Superboy TV series and Lois and Clark was soooooooooo critically successful?? (Those 2 series couldn't even get picked up for 5 seasons) Smallville re-energized the entire Supes franchise that was running on empty for more years than I can count...This includes the Supes comicbooks that were dragging seriously as documented in the Superman Returns Documentary on A&E this summer...Believe me SMALLVILLE in it's 6th season HAS been holding it's weight despite whatever problems you've percieved...Talk about overkill, sheeesh...70 years, lets be real here Without Smallville Supes Return doesn't even see the light of day...without SV Supes franchise would be covered in cobwebs right now...The show has had some problems without a doubt but you are overreacting seriously...

Whether you want to believe it or not, telling Supes in a non-conventional or Campy way has not been overwhelmingly successful in TV or the movies recently (which is the BOTTOMLINE)...Smallville has passed the test of being the longest lasting Supes TV series ever and I wouldn't expect them in season 6 to start faithfully telling an entire mythos based story when they never have...

Now you're making comparisons with movies that are just bad. Superman III and IV? Just horrible films. The first two weren't even that good. I agree with you that campy and silly is not the way to go. But I go back to my earlier statement that there is no need for Superman stories to be campy or silly. In fact, one of my bigger issues with "Whither" is that the villain IS extremely campy and silly. I'd say that overall, Smallville has been alot less cheesy than the Donner films and Lois and Clark (and I'm not even gonna talk about Superboy or Supes III and IV because again, they were just bad) for the most part. But I still think the campy cheesiness creeps in. You'll also find that the episodes I like least are the ones like this one, where I feel they've gone over the line with camp and cheese. "Hypnotic," "Magnetic," "the one with the Kryptonite Kool-aide that Clark somehow INGESTED" come to mind as other examples. There are an unfortunate number of others. I loved alot about Lois and Clark. I think the characters were spot on, but after the first season, when the cheese and camp became the overriding theme, we went overboard.

[Wingz Of Steel]

@manofsteel30 - Instead of jst quoting all your quotes and saying the oppposite I'll just try to address everything in a paragraph or two...

Well like I said there is a reason why SV is the longest running most popular Supes series ever...Most popular adaptation since Superman 2...Superman Returns while not a flop, sorely under-achieved and the "word of mouth" which is crucial for pushing a movie of this magnitude wasn't great to say the least(I also agree with you that Lex was done all wrong)...Something about the campyness, or unstoppableness, or lack of interesting "down to earth" characteristics when it comes to Supes just doesn't resinate all over the board anymore...Hardcore Supes geeks, yes...General audiences not so much...Even in animation this is successful but in live action we've seen proof of it's limitations...

Smallville has proved that contemporary molding of the character has been effective...I for the most part have enjoyed Clark's journey, yet unlike most I don't see this show as simply about Clark and nothing else...This is about the characters in the fictional world of SMALLVILLE...and I enjoy Lex's journey and Lionel's journey, and Lana's journey on some level as well as Clarks...Now that's not to say certain things and plot-points haven't frustrated me, but not so much as many others...I enjoy what I deem to be enjoyable, no more no less...If I'm feeling pi$$ed after an ep I'll convey that, if I'm not I'll convey that too...Right now it's too early for me to be screaming like a lunatic while I'm still digging the show on some levels...


I also feel like a SMALLVILLE movie (perhaps with a theme like Zod-Braniac) would have been more enjoyable to me on the bigscreen...One thing that got on my nerves was that the director promised the movie would have some relevatcy to SMALLVILLE and i didn't at all, and honestly the suit rubbed me the wrong way I just couldn't get over it...Kevin Spacy who I thought would be great was merely an exaggerrated extension of Gene Hackman's character and Lois simply too young looking and awkward in the role to enchant me...Now if you thought the first 2 Supes movie were trash then I don't think you will ever be satisfied with anything this genre has to offer...Perhaps you have this thing in your head of what Supes should be, but all I've heard you say is that you hate the campy versions, you dislike this more contemporary version, and you liked Supes Return...I'm trying to figure out what's your basis for comparison? What Supes incarnation has met all your expectations?

[manofsteel30]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Well like I said there is a reason why SV is the longest running most popular Supes series ever...

This statement is incorrect on several levels, some of which I covered before. While I'm glad Smallville is still on and has lasted because I still look forward to Thursdays, hoping that we'll get a good ep. Smallville is mostly the longest running Superman show because it's on the WB and now the CW. They have very very very low standards for their shows. 4 million viewers, which Smallville normally doesn't get, is considered great for them, while that amount would call for immeditate cancellation after the first showing. The other reason is that we're now in a time where there are so many channels that there's almost always a place for shows that MOST people don't want to watch.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
Smallville has proved that contemporary molding of the character has been effective...[QUOTE]

My whole point on this before was that people often confuse the word contemporary with "dark" or "flawed" or "just like everyone else." Contemporary, I suppose, COULD mean any or all of those but it doesn't have to. We can certainly make the character less aww gosh and aww shucks without making him evil at heart with guilt driving his good actions.

In SR, I thought Spacey's Lex was soooo much better than the Hackman version. Hackman's was campy and goofy. In so far as him being done incorrectly, what I mean is, Lex is supposed to be an on top of the world rich businessman and we haven't yet seen a Superman story (as opposed to Clark on Smallville) where Lex has been a smart, successful businessman who owns half the world. That's one of the major reasons I haven't like many of the live action Supes movies and shows. Lex has never been done right. He's not a silly guy who wears wigs because he's self-conscious. Lex accepts his baldness and doesn't even care about it. He's ultra-cool and stylish and so at his root evil and smart that he would never act the way Gene Hackman's Lex acted. On Lois and Clark, which was my favorite portrayal of the characters to date, Lex was perfect. Sure, he had hair, but that first season was pure gold in terms of the way Shea played him. He was powerful, rich, confident, smarmy and strong. None of the Lex Luthor's have been that close to correct. It then of course went downhill when they had him jump to his "death." But of course that's when the whole show started going downhill. The cast though, always the best spot-on recreations of these famous characters.

It also always bothers me that, because Donner said Jon Kent had to die in order for them to have dramatic tension, (another lazy way instead of actually writing something - "Let's just kill the father off, that'll be emotional.") they do it in the new movie and on Smallville. Another unnecessary plot device, which was done extremely poorly on Smallville that continues to bother me. The best on screen incarnation, though it almost pains me to say, was done seriously with good stories and interesting characters, was Superman the Animated Series. The problem with it, since it's only a half hour and it's an animated show, is that there wasn't too much in the way of romance development or change. But the Luthor dynamic was perfect and the Daily Planet staff relationships were pretty spot on. We also got to see real villains and continuing plotlines.

I still have hope that we'll see a completely serious Superman movie or TV show someday, as I don't think we've gotten yet. Smallville came close in alot of ways early but in my mind they've lost what they were originally were about. Lois and Clark had the characters right but became way too over the top campy. The animated series was pretty perfect but there's not alot of room for character development there. The first two Superman films were fun to watch and great when I was younger but they're way too campy and there is no romantic development between Lois and CLark, which there is supposed to be. SR got alot right but also alot wrong. I hope that SInger can fix his mistakes, as he must know he's made some by now, and make the second movie everything we need it to be. At least within the questionable framework he's set up.

[Wingz Of Steel]

This statement is incorrect on several levels, some of which I covered before. While I'm glad Smallville is still on and has lasted because I still look forward to Thursdays, hoping that we'll get a good ep. Smallville is mostly the longest running Superman show because it's on the WB and now the CW. They have very very very low standards for their shows. 4 million viewers, which Smallville normally doesn't get, is considered great for them, while that amount would call for immeditate cancellation after the first showing. The other reason is that we're now in a time where there are so many channels that there's almost always a place for shows that MOST people don't want to watch.

Dude in an attempt to not get too pretentious with you...I'll have to ask you again what do you want?? Supes franchise was DYING DYING...Supes comic sales were DYING DYING....Supes TV series were DYING DYING...Superman 1 and 2 which you seem to not like injected energy into a DYING DYING franchise...after Supes 3 and 4 and Supergirl (Which all BOMBED) and Superboy TV (which was mildly successful)...the franchise one again started to DIE...Lois & Clark picked things up for a couple years but then it DIED (THERE IS A REASON FOR THIS)...Supes Returns was gonna be scrapped....There were ideas of having Supes in a Black Costume with a Razor-blade S on his chest to infuse a new story (this was in the A&E documetary that talked about how the comic sales were dwindeling)...Then Smallville came around which re-energized an entire franchise....The fact they got a following like this in the super-competive world of a trillion channels on TV speaks to it's success...If it had been on one of the big networks it would have had a bigger budget and bigger promotions and bigger advertising power, but that wasn't the case...However it did what most incarnations couldn't do it stuck around for longer than 4 years and is still around today whether you like it or not...had they done the story like you wanted I doubt it would have lasted a season or 2...


The only incarnation of Supes you kinda liked is Supes Returns...So I think your expectations are inflated because that movie IMO was weak, and if that's your favorite incarnation I never want to see Supes again (Lex has never been done right? You're quite arrogant to say the least--You must think only your ideal version will be good, O'Shea was good, but MR is better because he relates to the audience)...I like the contemporary feel of SMALLVILE and like most series after the 5th season it tends to lose or fracture it's core audience but it's still around and as long as I'm enjoying it that's what I'm gonna do...You can't have your own personal Supes story like a mini pan pizza with the ingredients of only your liking...I agree there are problems, but I don't think your way is the way to go considering most Supes movies and series fail because of the character's infailable incredible prowess...

And when I say contemporary I mean morso what The Spiderman films did for that hero...Supes Return should have followed that lead and made the setting more plausible instead of this half 2006 half 1935 looking world filled with greys and darkness instead of color, wonder, and adventure what Supes is more about...You can't make Supes dark on the silver screen...You can't pull it off...Spiderman and Batman, yes, but not Supes and the film paid the price because "word of mouth" was weak...Supes as long as he's flying and beating the $hit out of everything in an easy fashion will always have a level of campyness to him (I would say in the animated world this is not a factor though)...SMALLVILLE for the most part remove that element by making the character more relatable...They haven't been perfect but they've pleased more than most other incarnations post 1980...

[manofsteel30]

Wingz, I did forget to address your thoughts on the way Smallville saved a dying franchise and how, without it, there never would have been a Superman film. This is most definitely an over-inflation of the series prowess. Obviously, since the movie had many more tickets sold than Smallville has weekly viewers, a very small portion of the SR audience were fans of Smallville. There is simply no way a major studio would pput too much stock into a show that is barely surviving on TV. Believe me, I love alot about Smallville and I loved alot about SR.

Shea was the best live action fully realized Lex, to date, in the first season of L&C. MR is fantastic on Smallville and I say it would be perfect if they'd really show him gradually change and have him make logical moves toward evil. Problem is, they don't. Instead they've always just made giant, illogical leaps. So far, Lana has been more an enemy to Clark than Lex ever has. Lana's the one who has caused him the most emotional suffering. Then, in one ep they decide to make Lex a releaser of felons who imprison the Kents. (It wasn't entirely clear but it appeared that he released those goons from Belle Reeve on purpose.) Then he goes several eps doing his normal good deeds and suddenly AC comes along and Lex becomes a kidnapper. These are very illogical leaps and bounds above anything the character has EVER expressed an interest in. On this show, Lex has ALWAYS been a pretty nice guy who helped the community and helped his friends and always TRIED to do the right thing. He's always had a few shady dealings but that doesn't make him evil. I understand that this show is partially about seeing Lex make that change, I just don' think having him be a great guy through 4 seasons, with a few failings like we all have, then suddenly throwing in an episode where he does something completely evil and totally out of character based on what we've been shown, is the way to go. But I agree, alot of what they've done with MR has been great.

Lionel was great too, until even the writers lost and forgot where they were in terms of his personality. Can anyone tell me why one week he's a horrible killer who tries to murder every main character but then the next week he's saving Chloe from the gangs of Metropolis? I realize we can use the Jor-El was in him excuse or He took over Clark's body for a while and some of Clark must have infused him. All that is well and good but tell us either way. Also, Martha should NEVER have a romantic interest in Lionel. He shouldn't even be allowed into the Kent home after the things he's done and been proven to have tried to do.

When I say that characters have never been done correctly, it's not based on my own limited view of what I think should be. I say when a story one is making is based on years and years of mythology, some care should be taken to respect that mythology and I don't feel Smallville has done that. I will say that Lex on Smallville is much more pointed in the direction to become what Lex should be more than Lex in SR was, even if they reach that point with illogil leaps and bounds. You're totally correct when you say the producers of SR should have taken clues from the Spiderman movies. They didn't CHANGE major character personalities. They made a movie based on what everyone expects Spidey to be and they are immensely successful. The only reason some people think Superman is campy and silly is because Donner made mainstream movies that show him that way. Superman isn't campy and silly and there's no reason he has to be. Again you are correct when you say dark and serious on Smallville was the way to go and they definitely got that right. Problem is, even they have faltered to the side of campy/silly on too many occasions. The biggest problem to me, and to many Superman(not solely Smallville) fans, is that they've changed way too much of the core mythology, which just wasn't necessary. I'm not going to go into those examples again (Jor-El, Clark only out to help himself, etc.) because I wrote about them in detail on an earlier post.

We definitely shouldn't expect everyone to follow Donner's example. That campy/silliness won't work in this day and age. You ask what I want. What I, and other Superman fans want (and deserve since he's the first and greatest hero ever. A template for every other hero to follow) is a serious, accurate Superman movie that gives us the hero in all of his greatness. That doesn't mean there can't be angst. It also doesn't mean he can't make mistakes. But as you said earlier, all we've really seen so far are either interpretations that are entirely too silly and campy or interpretations that must be Elseworld's tales and not current, or even previous canon. I will say this, Smallville has done an incredibly interesting job of pulling so many different threads from so many different points throughout the character's history.

Finally, wherever it's been said, if it was on that documentary, which I've watched but don't remember every detail, I think they were simply giving due credit to Smallville for helping to keep Superman on screens. The same can be said for every incarnation. But it's not because of one or the other, it's because of the continuing, everlasting ongoing universal appeal of Superman that we continue to see representations in all media of what he's about. The movie was long in the works and would have been made, as it was, eventually. I certainly can't credit Smallville for it being made. They were working on it for years and yes, many ideas were scrapped and then restarted. Many scripts were written and rewritten, many actors cast and uncast. But even you said that SR really had no similarities to Smallville, other than some character names being the same. If Smallville were responsible for the movie coming to fruition (soley) I submit the characters would have been similar and they are not. These are simply too different visions of what these characters might be and yet never have been (exactly) portrayed that way in the source material they are pulled from. Furthermore I submit to you that if you think about it realistically, you must admit that had a Smallville film been made, counting solely on the series fans to be a success or failure, the movie would have been a complete and utter failure. Smallville doesn't have enough viewers to sustain anything more than barely surviving week to week. That doesn't mean I'm not glad it's here, I just won't credit it with saving a hero who's been around for 70 years and will continue to be around long after Smallville is gone. Don't get me wrong though, every incarnation is an agent in keeping Superman alive. If we stop making TV shows and movies and cartoons and books about our fictional characters, then obviously, our heroes will be forgotten.

[otter]

Originally posted by Wingz Of Steel
....especially the one between Clark and Gloria where it seemed this girl would more likely be a new love interest for Clark rather than a new villain. So overall I enjoyed the plot for handling so much on the plate with relative ease.

I thought Tom Welling really brought his "A"-game this episode and he was spot-on with comedic timing and overall timing with his acting. For the first time in a very long time I saw an assertive and confident Clark going from scene to scene changing his emotions effortlessly and with subtlety. He used different parts of his persona so effectively in this episode. It started early on with his mother, then when finding out Chloe had a "sleep-over", then he had an absolutely commanding scene when he was being flirtatious and almost "Player-ish" in his scene with the ZOTW (When's the last time you've seen Clark be as confident in a scene with a new girl? Usually he's nervous and awkward)

I thought the Clex scene was also great with colorful banter and exchanges between the two characters (It ups the performance when Clark gets in his verbal jabs aswell). Clark saying, "SO even your plants have hidden agendas..." and approaching Lex in a manner to suggest that he was tired of holding his tongue was quite the show. He was stern and forceful and it's what I've been waiting for a while now in a Clex scene usually dominated with Lex's awesome wordplay which once again he delivered when saying to Clark ..."You've always had an eye for beauty" (to imply Lana) or "Sorry Clark, I'm out of evil...Lana must be a calming influence on me..." I had to chuckle when pressed by Clark about the strange vine he said, "And naturally you came to my little shop of horrors...." (remember that movie?^^). To think these two former best of friends would be at the point of visible disdain for one another was sad in a way yet so good in another. Lex telling him he was no longer welcomed was the icing to a very bitter scene. TW was great all episode in adjusting his emotions and I was glad to finally see a Clark with a backbone and a confident aggressiveness about him. Please continue this.

At risk of starting a new discussion, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with your analysis, particularly on TW's performance. I hadn't thought about it when I watched this epi the first time, but do remember never cringing at any of his lines. But, after reading your review, I went back and watched it again and saw what you saw. He was great in most of the scenes, but I especially liked him in the Talon scene, whispering to Chloe and then the shock-of-Jimmy, happy-for-Chloe, embarrassed-to-be-there and a little what-if about a Chlark relationship all rolled into one scene. Man, he had to work to get all that in there in a few seconds of screen time. I thought TPTB even left the camera running longer than usual on TW to close that scene out. His facial expressions were masterfully performed (did I imagine his natural blushing?). I'm so proud of him I could just squeal!

Just wanted to let you know. And I think your critical (I don't mean negative, here) review was insightful and agreeable. I appreciate the time you put into sharing so many words.

[Wingz Of Steel]

@MANOFSTEEL - Well this sub-forum is going to actually wither in a few minutes and we can go in circles all day and night and never come to a consensus...I just believe the numbers seem to be in my favor and the failed series and movies seem to suggest Supes doesn't have as many dynamic qualities as some other characters..Like it or not I think SMALLVILLE (despite the flaws the series has had from time to time) has proven a contemporary tale isn't exactly a bad thing...and if by season 6 you STILL can't cope with the fact it's never gonna be what you want, well that is what it is...SMALLVILLE made Supes relevant again in pop culture, and even Singer said SMALLVILLE served as a templet to re-energize getting the movie started when it was dead in the water...The Supes you envision (which to your opinion has never seen the light of day ever in live-format), I just don't know if you are ever gonna get it...








Originally posted by otter
At risk of starting a new discussion, I just wanted to let you know that I agree with your analysis, particularly on TW's performance. I hadn't thought about it when I watched this epi the first time, but do remember never cringing at any of his lines. But, after reading your review, I went back and watched it again and saw what you saw. He was great in most of the scenes, but I especially liked him in the Talon scene, whispering to Chloe and then the shock-of-Jimmy, happy-for-Chloe, embarrassed-to-be-there and a little what-if about a Chlark relationship all rolled into one scene. Man, he had to work to get all that in there in a few seconds of screen time. I thought TPTB even left the camera running longer than usual on TW to close that scene out. His facial expressions were masterfully performed (did I imagine his natural blushing?). I'm so proud of him I could just squeal!

Just wanted to let you know. And I think your critical (I don't mean negative, here) review was insightful and agreeable. I appreciate the time you put into sharing so many words.

Thanx for the positive words, and yeah it was one of the few eps when I didn't cringe at anything TW said as he was pretty flawless...It's really subtle alot of it but it's there...Glad you went back and saw what made me enjoy this ep on some levels...He did a real good job in Wither and I'll be back in a couple days with another review...

[Prodigal]

Honestly, i was expecting for something like last year's Hidden.
What i got? A calm, nostalgic and love episode with PZ Invader.

Not the kind of taste i wanted.
Anyway, good epi.
4/5

Prodigal ®

[manofsteel30]

Wingz, you said:

SMALLVILLE made Supes relevant again in pop culture, and even Singer said SMALLVILLE served as a templet to re-energize getting the movie started

And I say most people don't even have any idea there is a Smallville or that it's a show about Superman. Generally. it isn't anyway. I still talk to young kids who say, "Smallville's about Superman?" They just think it's another teen sex drama on the WB. It's also not the best way to show kids and families, since this show is supposed to be a family show, how heroes and teenagers should act. Sex, drugs and killing.

Smallville again, is NOT the highest rated Superman show. It stays on because it's on one of the lowest rated networks. Again, anywhere else and this show would have been yanked long ago. And again, I'm very glad it wasn't.

Also, it's not after 6 years that I still can't cope with what Smallville is, it's after 2 or 3 after the first 2 or 3 seasons that I can see the writers have lost their way and forgotten what Superman and Clark Kent SHOULD be about. I don't think they ever really knew where they were going with the whole Jor-El thing. The caves in Smallville are completely forgotten now. Lionel has had no clear direction for 2 years. He was a bad bad guy who tried to kill everyone. Now, for no reason everyone, incluing Clark and Martha have befriended him and Chloe, who he tried to blow up, talks to him like a friend all the time. These are the types of inconsistancies that would annoy me in any television show.

I certainly accept that a "reinvention" by definition is just that. Things are being reinvented. I just didn't expect the character to be changed completely. I still find it interesting and I still wait to see if they can redeem any of the other plot holes they seem to hope none of us remember. Superman has been around in various forms, some less popular, some extremely popular for 70 yeares and he'll continue long after Smallville has gone the way of the dodo. (which at this rate will be the end of this season or sooner. I hope not)

Without Smallville, all we would not have is this discussion forum and a pretty cool show that has taken many misteps in the retelling of legend. Superman has never been dead, though I'm sure people like Singer are always going to stay on the nice side and give credit where credit is due or undue. I'm sure the show sparked interest in some people some of the time, but I certainly wouldn't credit it for being the be all end all of everything Superman to come because it surely isn't.

[fresh prince]

after watching it the second time it wasnt so bad of an eppisode I still didnt like the villian and it was to much romance and crap

[CLanaF23]

umm the lana and lex sex lil scene was SOOOOOO DISGUSTING!!!! Like how old is he?? he is such a jerk..it wasn't even special to him..ILL i don't know how lana did it....i hate lex!! soo nasty...:(

[CDLBLUE]

Your right the sex scene between Lex and Lana was revolting beyond belief, as for Lex not thinking it was special, what should he, he was just banging and balling the town slut, Lana character is beyond redemption, as we know how the season is going to play out we all know of all the misery and unhappiness that ( justly ) await her, but she has no one to blame except herself, she made a choice and like so many choices that she has made it was the wrong one, she has lost Clark forever, she may be hunted by Lex Luthor for the rest of her life, ( she faked her death, but everybody already knows that ) , and she realizes that she has just become another notch on Lex's bedpost, and she has turned herself into a tramp and a whore, maybe all of this give her maturity and judgement in the future, but at what a cost.

[skully]

As I fill in time by rewatching Seasons 1-6 waiting for Sept 27, I have just rewatched Wither. It is not "that bad" an episode :eek: . It has cute Chimmy, early Lollie, some excellent acting by TW, AM, MR, KK, ED and AOT, some totally "hot" shots of KK in her Cleopatra gear, and the consummation of the Lexana relationship (which many will spew at!!). The concept of electricity killing Gloria's (the phantom from a vegetation planet) sporn is not that unreasonable. In the end, after reviewing, the only totally lame part of the episode (other than the Lexana sex scene - and that IMHO was OK!!!! :) ) was how quickly Clark eliminated Gloria (a bigger budget may have provided a better battle sequence). The Lollie scene at the end (just before Clark bouncing the ball of the Loft wall!!) to James Carrington's "Ache" was great.

So, in the end, Wither has probably copped a bit of raw deal as being nominated as one of the "worst episodes ever".

[meteor_phreak]

I totally agree...except your parts about accepting lexana. :barf: (what, no barf smiley? D'oh! :p)

i've always thought this was a fun episode. and subterranean, because of it's botched handling of social issues...poor casting with the kid...two-faced hipocrisy by martha because it fit the plot...was a much worse episode...

also, wither did deal with a phantom, so it had some point. and it furthered the tension between lex and clark...

[Supsfan]

Just rewtaching it, looks like another poor Clark episode

1) Chloe lectrues Clark about how it may not be Lex(and is right)

2) Chloe has to save Clark........again

3) Oh woah is me Clark, everything is his fault

I honestly don't know what the writers have against Clark. If they wrote Clark better it could have been a good episode

[Nimkong]

This episode was kind of a let down after two great episodes.Liked how it was about a phantom and chloe and jimmy are cute togther.But the plot was weak and this is probably my least favorite phantom episode

[SGuthrie27]

Meh... I didn't really dig this episode all that much. It was pretty much an excuse to set up all the different relationships that would be occurring over the bulk of the season, leaving Clark isolated to deal with his guilt in bringing the phantoms to earth. The set-up of the Lollie relationship was pretty cute -- their banter in their early reactions was pretty fun to watch. Chimmy... Eh... I guess it was all right here, but I was still stinging from the fact that Chlark didn't get a chance to have a real romance -- AGAIN -- so I wasn't really jumping for joy when they started to make out on that secluded hill. The "Did you just paddle me?" line was pretty hilarious though. The actress who played Gloria was pretty hot, and her powers were okay, but the plot in general -- putting her seeds inside men until they explode with vines -- was pretty lame, as was the way she was destroyed by episode's end. Oh, and the Lexana? BLEAAAGGGGHHHHHH!!! So, um... yeah... not my fave episode. I didn't mind Chloe saving Clark and Jimmy, though. Clark didn't know that he was vulnerable against the phantoms, so he couldn't have been aware of what would happen when he confronted Gloria. All in all, I have to give this episode 3 thorny alien tree branches out of 10 for being a shipper-fest of blah-ness.

[Komsomolets]

This episode had everything that you want from a weekly fix of Smallville. I can watch it again and again. There was teen angst, a bit of love, a lot of hate (see the Lexollie sparks fly), a freak of the week in the form of the plant loving phantom who basically impales Clark, Ollie showed up, Chloe was well being Chloe and starting the Chimmy thingy, Lois was her usual trouble rousing self lookin sexy as ever, and the episode even had sex even if it was the wrong people doing it, what more do you want? They say that if you feel something strong good or bad for a character then the writers did a good job. Well after this episode, I basically felt that Lana had to die, so I guess they did great!

The whole Lexana thing was revolting:(, but that was a large part of why I really love this episode. Although I have to say Lex looked fab in his Roman uniform, what better costume could you give a Luthor than the uniform of an all conquering empire, and Lana's dramatic entrance as Cleopatra to Lex's Anthony. All of that to 'It ends tonight' by All-American Rejects. An iconic scene. Lex finally got the girl, in the process winning that particular battle against Clark. We hate to see Clark get hurt, of course we do, especially when its worse than Kryptonite. We'd rather see him suffer Kryptonite than see Lana betraying him. There was the feeling that she was ungrateful, even though she could not have known that Clark wanted to marry her, even though she didn't know he was lying to her to save her life and had lost his own father in the process of reversing her death.

So Basically if Lana had died in this episode or shortly after, I would have felt relief, although I would have been sad for Clark who obviously was still in love and would have suffered doubly having already lost his father. Even though I felt that way, in retrospect I'm glad she didn't die.

[ck123]

sorry i kinda didnt like it too much

[hadezown]

This deserves at least a 5 for the costumes alone. +5 cause it was such an amazing episode with great performances and the PZ story. I guess -10 if you hate lexana. Personally I liked the lexana scene, I find it hard to call a sexy pair like that revolting.

[Supermania]

After rewatching this episode recently, I found it to be quite a good hour. The episodes in which Clark is tackling Zod or the Phantoms (excluding 'Static' in which he received little screen-time) are generally his best in Season Six. He was very confident in himself in this episode and maintained a clear head on what he was doing which is somewhat rare in pre-Season Eight Clark. Chloe was also written beautifully in this one in the way that she helped Clark with his investigation into the vine killings in the forest and her interaction with Jimmy was quite good; I prefer the couple in Season Six than in Season Seven (where they are written like an extremely bad soap opera). I thought the Oliver and Lois interaction in this episode was great; it was funny when Lois mistook him for a delivery boy at first and sent him away from the Kent Farm. Not sure if I take great leisure in the Lexana moments though - I don't think I've ever liked them. The ending montage where we see them about to have sex is strangely freaky...but never mind! The Phantom Zoner fight and the beginning of the Clark Kent-Lex Luthor rivalry more than make up for this. 4/5 imo

[Supsfan]

Chloe was also written beautifully in this one in the way that she helped Clark with his investigation into the vine killings in the forest and her interaction with Jimmy was quite good;

It's episodes like this that make me hate Chloe Season 5-7. There is nothing standout terrible in the episode but forcing Chloe into the plotline of Clark vs vinelady really drags down the episode. They should have made Clark be more proactive against the vinelady and let Chloe concentrate on Jimmy then the episode could be much better. Chloe saving Clark in this episode ranks in my top 5 dumb Clark saves

I don't know why the producers felt the need to shove Chloe in plots she really wasn't needed(ie there was easy ways to write Clark figuring out stuff for himself) but to often it became an annoying habit around this time

On a different note, it's sort of sad that when I rewatched this episode and saw Clark bounce the ball in his loft, all I said to myself was, well at least this is one of the least depressing Clark loft scenes to end an episode with ever on the show. lol