Who blew up Chloe's safehouse?

[Loren]

As you know, back in the season 3 finale, the safe house that Chloe and her dad were staying in was blown up. All signs pointed to Lionel as the culprit, and I maintain that Lionel was behind it. It irks me to see Chloe even abide being in the same room with him after that.

However, a friend of mine disputes this, saying that it was subsequently revealed that Genevieve Teague was behind the attempt on Chloe's life. I don't recall this revelation, and I find it hard to believe.

But maybe I'm wrong. So rather than argue between ourselves, I figured I'd look for outside opinions. Does anyone else believe that Genevieve was responsible for blowing up the safehouse, or is the general consensus that Lionel did it?

Thanks,
Loren

[Autumn]

Originally posted by Loren
As you know, back in the season 3 finale, the safe house that Chloe and her dad were staying in was blown up. All signs pointed to Lionel as the culprit, and I maintain that Lionel was behind it. It irks me to see Chloe even abide being in the same room with him after that.

However, a friend of mine disputes this, saying that it was subsequently revealed that Genevieve Teague was behind the attempt on Chloe's life. I don't recall this revelation, and I find it hard to believe.

But maybe I'm wrong. So rather than argue between ourselves, I figured I'd look for outside opinions. Does anyone else believe that Genevieve was responsible for blowing up the safehouse, or is the general consensus that Lionel did it?

Thanks,
Loren

It was (I think) revealed that Lionel did not blow up Chloe's safe house.

Do you recall the episode when Lois went to visit Lionel in prison? She asked him who had given him such a wonderful gift? Lois, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive.

Lionel knew he wasn't the one who tried to blow her up. So who could it be? I think that's when Lionel figured that Chloe's death must have been a cover up and that she was still alive. And that's when he sent other people after Chloe.

That said, I don't think the explosion was part of the coverup. I think it was implied that Genevieve was the one who gave Lionel the "gift." I can't remember if it was directly said or not.

The scenes between Chloe and Lionel make more sense if you listen to the commentary of season four in the episode when Clark and Lionel switch places.

John Glover, the actor who plays Lionel, said in the commentary that he has Lionel be kind of attracted to Chloe. He's intrigued by her brain. I think Lionel likes to mess around with her. But would he kill her? I don't know. He wasn't the one who tried to blow her up. I think he was kind of impressed that she was the only one who was smart enough to bring him that far down.

Well anyway, I hope that helps. :)

And this is just how I recall it. So I could be wrong as well. Perhaps it's one of those ambiguous things everyone will always discuss and have an opinion on!

[superhippie2000]

i think lex set it up to make it look like she was dead so lionel wouldnt hurt her. genvieve teague didnt show up till a few episodes into season 4 and it was to see her son jason she had nothing to do with anything that went on in season 3. she was just there for the stones and the witch.

[xrayvision]

I think you're right. I think Lionel though had a change of heart when he was trying to get Trent to kill Chloe in Gone. I wonder how he found out she wasn't really dead. Perhaps it was an FBI insider paid off by him, much like Loder.

That's what I hated about season 4---they had some intriguing stories, and they focused on the dumbest topics as the main ones for their episodes. They could have given us history on the stones and nixed the witches. They screwed up Jason too (he became another Adam). It really could have been a good season. I think it should have been the season based mainly on the stones, their origins (with scenes from hundreds of years ago back on Krypton as they were being brought to Earth), and how they related to the Kawatche tribe. It would also have been good to see the cave prophecy with Clark questioning who the true Sigeeth is as he experienced various actions by Lionel & Lex. It would have been great to see him notice signs of Lex turning into Sigeeth throughout season 4, where he would try to thwart it from happening, only at the end of the season for something bad to happen to Lex as a result of living the life Clark wants him to and turning his back on that lifestyle. Then, throughout season 5, he would do the things we saw him doing (going for power, hurting those who got in his was like AC, and the rest). It could have set up season 5 so much better than wasting valuable episodes with plots of exploding babies, brainwashing cheerleaders, witches, Clark realizing that he can't continue his football career (which was already done in Hothead), kryptonite facelifts, Lane family problems, and all the other crap storylines they had.

[Ireallylikethisshow]

Smallville doesn't have the best 'continuity' so... I don't think they even know. It could be Genieve or Lionel. I guess we'll never know. Add it to the list along with Amelia Earhart.

[Autumn]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I think you're right. I think Lionel though had a change of heart when he was trying to get Trent to kill Chloe in Gone. I wonder how he found out she wasn't really dead. Perhaps it was an FBI insider paid off by him, much like Loder.


I'm pretty sure it was Lois who tipped him off, accidentally mind you, when she went to go visit him. She made Lionel think Chloe might still be alive with the whole gift line. That whole scene, I swear, rewatch it again, Lionel's face becomes thoughtful, confused and angry. He's a smart man. I think that's when he figures out Chloe might be alive. Perhaps, he then paid someone in the FBI to find out for sure.

When I first saw this episode, I thought it was Lex who had set up the whole blowing up the house thing, but now I'm not so sure. Rewatching it, it seemed as if someone really did try to blow up Chloe and her Dad. And Lex used that as a way to cover their tracks. But who tried to blow Chloe up? I'm almost 100% convinced it wasn't Lionel, considering his reaction. The way he acted it, seemed clear to me that he thought he was just really lucky that someone else had blown Chloe up.

He said something about how the blowing up of the house was too obvious and messy for his style. I agree. I'm pretty sure Lionel didn't blow her up. I thought when Genevieve got Lionel out of prison there was an implied moment, where she might have been the one to try and blow Chloe up.
If only to play a game with Lionel.

I guess, it will be something that we'll always theorize. I'll have to watch season four again.

[xrayvision]

Maybe he meant he didn't do it as in him not doing it physically, but paying someone else to do it. After killing his parents, Lionel has always paid others to do the messy stuff. Like Lincoln Cole says in Mercy, "tell a lie long enough and you'll believe it".

We saw him lie about not killing his parents in Unsafe (I think that was the episode when he spoke to the warden) and again in Mercy. But in Truth, he said he did when Chloe was infected with the truth serum drug.

I think Lionel's a great liar. I think the "Do it" he said at the end of Covenant had much more than tell the tattooed inmate to shave his head. I think it meant he could have had some microphone on him and told an FBI guy (the one with glasses who had a smirk) to blow up the house. There's no way an MB with that much power and experience would let a girl like Chloe live to put him in jail for life. Remember what he said to Lex in Gone (every drink he takes, every car he starts....he won't know when it comes). He definitely had the means to "reach through the prison bars". If he would do that to his own son (poison him), I'm sure he would do that to Chloe.

I think he was just fishing for information from Lois, because he probably had his guys confirm Chloe's death and knew they couldn't find Gabe's & Chloe's bodies or traces of bodies. Ground-breaking radar would expose underground tunnels, and I'm sure the MB would spare no expense and utilize tools such as this to find and kill Chloe. This does make sense, because Trent started following Lois (at the cemetery in Gone) after she confronted Lionel in the prison in Crusade. Notice how before confronting the MB, she was never attacked by anyone. Coincidence....I don't think so.

[Autumn]

I believe he was following her afterwards because he figured out Chloe was alive by this time.

But again, we can always agree to disagree. They "don't" spell out what happened. So everyone will see something different. :)

[xrayvision]

I'm not really disagreeing with you. I think her visit tipped him off. I think he had his men scope the remains of the safehouse and they found out (with groundbreaking radar or something else) that Chloe & Gabe are alive. When he saw Lois, he knew that she was Chloe's cousin and sent Trent after her (which started in Gone). The change of expression on his face could have been him switching strategies to have Lois followed. Lionel is a very good denier (just look at season 3).

Genevieve would gain nothing from killing Chloe. Her main interest was Lionel and that was later when she found out his son was related to the stones search and had possessed 1 of them at one time.

[mariolegosu]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I'm not really disagreeing with you. I think her visit tipped him off. I think he had his men scope the remains of the safehouse and they found out (with groundbreaking radar or something else) that Chloe & Gabe are alive. When he saw Lois, he knew that she was Chloe's cousin and sent Trent after her (which started in Gone). The change of expression on his face could have been him switching strategies to have Lois followed. Lionel is a very good denier (just look at season 3).

Genevieve would gain nothing from killing Chloe. Her main interest was Lionel and that was later when she found out his son was related to the stones search and had possessed 1 of them at one time.
Of course she would gain something out of Chloe's dead. In the season Finale, Jason told JK and MK that his mother thought the Luthors would bring her to the stones. With Chloe dead, Lionel would've been a free man and then could've continued with his obsession for the stones.

But did she get him out of prison? I'm not so sure. If you pay attention to the sounds in the scene where Lionel steps into the limo, you can clearly hear a male laugh. And it certainly wasn't Lionel's. It really could've been anyone.

All of this is pure speculation. But I think that Lionel tried to have Chloe's safehouse blown up. You might say it was too messy and out of Lionel's style, but then it would be unexpected of Lionel to do something so obvious. Whenever I hear "unexpected", I think it really suits Lionel's style. And if Lionel didn't try to kill Chloe, then who tried to kill Lex? There was an attempt on both of their lives and it surely was no coincidence. Lionel had very little to lose as he was a dying man in prison.

Also, when EDLois spoke with Lionel, he said "Ms. Sullivan is dead as a result of her own actions." Just that line should be able to convince everyone that Lionel indeed tried to kill Chloe.

[xrayvision]

I'm certain Genevieve Teague wasn't involved in the safehouse explosion. Lionel is a very powerful and dangerous man, and with him in prison, she had one less person going after the stones. She only sprung him out of jail (confirmed by a deleted scene) after she suspected Lex to have a stone and the agreement was to have Lionel convince Lex to give it to her. Of course we know that Lex didn't have it (I'm assuming she thought he had the water stone) until Commencement (after her death).

But going back to Crusade & Onyx: Lex did say "never try to hurt what you can't kill" to Lionel, and Lionel's reaction proved he was behind the poisoning. And from his threat to Lex in Gone, "every sip you take, every car you start" (whatever it was exactly that he said), it proves that Lionel had the power to kill even within his prison cell. So if that's true with him being able to have Lex killed, then the same is true about having the safehouse blown up.

My only question is how did the guys who helped Chloe & Gabe into the tunnel know the house was rigged with explosives? It may be possible that the explosion was done to make Lionel think Chloe died, but I doubt the government would go to those extents.

[Crusader]

It must be lionels fault as he would of wanted chloe to not testify against him so he could get out of prison.

[Loren]

Originally posted by Autumn
It was (I think) revealed that Lionel did not blow up Chloe's safe house.

Do you recall the episode when Lois went to visit Lionel in prison? She asked him who had given him such a wonderful gift? Lois, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive.

I don't recall the scene. However, unless the episode is "Gone," the second episode of the season, then it can't work that way.

In the season premiere, Chloe is assumed dead. It's not until the final moments of the episode that Clark uses his x-ray vision to look into her coffin and declare that she's not there. Thus, if this meeting between Lois and Lionel was in the season premiere, then Lois couldn't accidentally hint at anything, because she still believed Chloe was dead.

In the second episode Lois confirms Clark's claim by digging up the grave, and they eventually find Chloe alive. In the final act of that episode, we see Lionel convicted in court thanks to Chloe's testimony. Which means that Lionel had to see her testify, and knows she's alive from thereon out.

So unless that meeting was in the first 45 minutes of "Gone," then there is no "clear signal" to inadvertantly give.


Originally posted by xrayvision
My only question is how did the guys who helped Chloe & Gabe into the tunnel know the house was rigged with explosives? It may be possible that the explosion was done to make Lionel think Chloe died, but I doubt the government would go to those extents.

They certainly wouldn't put Chloe, her dad, and multiple agents *inside* the house seconds before they blew it up. They would have staged something with a little less risk.

I still hate that scene for cheating the viewers by changing the explosion scene from the finale. Turning what was very clearly no time to escape into several seconds' worth of time. Saving Chloe is a worthwhile end, but if that was their plan, they should have made the finale scene slightly more ambiguous.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Loren
I don't recall the scene. However, unless the episode is "Gone," the second episode of the season, then it can't work that way.

It was near the end of Crusade. Lois went to prison to as in her words "see the SOB who killed her cousin". Lionel says that he had nothing to do with it, that he had a deal w/ Chloe, he lived up to his end, she didn't, and she is responsible for her own death. He also says that blowing up a safehouse is messy and thuggish and not his style. She then agrees and comes up with a theory that someone else killed Chloe for him and tells him that it must be driving him crazy trying to find out who did that.


Originally posted by Loren
In the season premiere, Chloe is assumed dead. It's not until the final moments of the episode that Clark uses his x-ray vision to look into her coffin and declare that she's not there. Thus, if this meeting between Lois and Lionel was in the season premiere, then Lois couldn't accidentally hint at anything, because she still believed Chloe was dead.

What I'm saying is that Lionel knew before Lois showed up by his cell that Chloe wasn't dead. He likely had his guys check the house and they found out about the tunnel and couldn't find any bodies or remains. And with this knowledge of Chloe not being dead along with him witnessing Lois looking for her cousin, he used his common sense and had his guys follow her hoping to find Chloe. Since Lois' father is a general, Trent could have used his T-1000 abilities to snoop around and find out somehow where Chloe was.


Originally posted by Loren
In the second episode Lois confirms Clark's claim by digging up the grave, and they eventually find Chloe alive. In the final act of that episode, we see Lionel convicted in court thanks to Chloe's testimony. Which means that Lionel had to see her testify, and knows she's alive from thereon out.

So unless that meeting was in the first 45 minutes of "Gone," then there is no "clear signal" to inadvertantly give.

It's possible, because Lois wasn't being followed until after her meeting with Lionel. There is no way that is a result of coincidence.


Originally posted by Loren
They certainly wouldn't put Chloe, her dad, and multiple agents *inside* the house seconds before they blew it up. They would have staged something with a little less risk.

I agree. That's what makes me think it wasn't staged by the govt.


Originally posted by Loren
I still hate that scene for cheating the viewers by changing the explosion scene from the finale. Turning what was very clearly no time to escape into several seconds' worth of time. Saving Chloe is a worthwhile end, but if that was their plan, they should have made the finale scene slightly more ambiguous.

I agree. I think they did the same thing in Zod. In Vessel, Chloe was on the ground in great danger while Lionel & his limo driver were in no position to help. In Zod, Lionel's limo driver was kicking butt and wasn't surrounded like he was in Vessel. They should always give themselves a realistic out for scenes like this before they film them.

[Loren]

Originally posted by xrayvision
What I'm saying is that Lionel knew before Lois showed up by his cell that Chloe wasn't dead.

I think I see the source of my confusion. You said "Lois, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive." Did you mean "Lionel, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive."?

[xrayvision]

Autumn was the one who made that post.

Personally, I don't think Lois gave away anything by what she said to him in that meeting. I think the only thing that gave Lios away was the action of showing up to meet Lionel. As soon as he saw her, he must have known that she was either looking for Chloe or for justice for Chloe's death (of course having his men comb the safehouse area beforehand, he knew Chloe was alive). Before that, he may not have known about Chloe having a cousin or having one who would be interested in finding her. He must have sent Trent out to follow her telling him to look out for anything strange, and the digging up of the grave was the dead giveaway. Once that happened, he likely sent Trent to dig deeper into the Lane's and how they're tied up with Chloe's whereabouts. The events of Gone seem to support this theory.

[Autumn]

Originally posted by Loren
I think I see the source of my confusion. You said "Lois, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive." Did you mean "Lionel, not thinking things through, gave a pretty clear signal that Chloe must still be alive."?

It was me who actually said the Lois quote about not seeing things through.

What I meant is that by Lois going off about how it "was" very sluggish and very un-Lionel like to blow Chloe up, that someone else must have done it. She was baiting him, because she did in fact believe Lionel did it. She didn't think through the consequences of saying such things to Lionel. Because he "seemed" to act like it wasn't him, and then he began to question "why" she was actually dead. This, IMO, is what made him find out if she was still alive. Chloe had been safe under Lex's protection up until that day. That says something to me.

To me, it's not clear who blew Chloe up (or tried to anyway), but it does seem pretty clear to me that Lois did accidentally tip Lionel off with that foolish speech she made.

That's when Lionel sent someone after Chloe, and also had Lois followed.

I do think that Lionel tried to poison Lex. But perhaps Lionel already suspected that Lex wouldn't die anyway. And it was just another test. I don't know.

So, I suppose the possibilities are:

1) Lionel tried to blow Chloe up (or paid someone to do it) - I still think he would have done something less obvious.
2) Lex blew the house up as a cover-although this seems like an unlikely risk
3) Genevieve did; She did have good reasons to. And she was the one who got Lionel out of prison. This was revealed in a scene between Genevieve and Lionel. It was also implied in a scene between Gen. and Lex. She wanted to exchange information with Lex, and one of the exchanges would be the information on who got Lionel released. (Of course she would know, it was her).
4) Someone else who wanted Chloe dead. Or wanted Lionel released from prison.

I'll have to watch season four again some other time to see if I can figure it out.

But for some reason, my memory keeps telling me Genevieve.

[xrayvision]

I think Lionel's "do it" as heard in Covenant was regarding blowing up the safehouse. It obviously wasn't Lex's drink since Lex was drinking it at the same time Lionel was getting shaved, so the poisoning must have been done prior. And I don't think the "do it" refers solely to the haircut/shaving, as that was too unimportant. That leaves only the explosion. I think the guy smirking in the SUV had the triggering device that set the bomb off and was given a call by some sort of hidden mic Lionel had on him.

[Spirit Detective]

I really think Lionel did it. He had the FBI under his payroll and had nothing to lose. Getting rid of both Lex and Chloe would have meant that he would have been free from prison (no one to testify). Besides, Lionel has been known to lie in the past (ex: the truth about his parents, clark's secret).

[xrayvision]

And those were the 2 who had stuff on him (Chloe could testify on the murder of his parents & Lex had all that stuff on cloning and what was done to him, though he doesn't remember it).

[Spirit Detective]

It goes to show how cunning the MB was and still is on Smallville. If Lionel could go as far as to have Lex given electroshock therapy, then there is no limit to whaht he could do. Lionel did convince himself to kill Lex in "Zod" so poisoning Brandy is not so difficult as well as blowing up safehouses.

[lilkoolmaria]

Haha, I got so confused about this too. But I just kinda shrugged it off.