Chloe's "words of wisdom" to Clark on taking a life

[norman619]

I just about laughed my ass off when she said who was he to decide who lives and dies. Then she went on to name doctors and other people who's job it is to help people. I ask who are they to decide who lives? It's a 2 sided coin. It's a silly and infantile thing to say we can choose who lives but not who dies. All your choices in these kinds positions you have to choose who lives and who dies. Sometimes the choice to save a life results in the death of others. In this case Letting Lex live may mean the deaths of countless others. I was dissapointed with her failure to see the big picture here. This is the lesson Jorel has been trying to teach Clark for a while. The life of one person can not be put before the lives of many others.

[DorkMatter]

Originally posted by norman619
I just about laughed my ass off when she said who was he to decide who lives and dies. Then she went on to name doctors and other people who's job it is to help people. I ask who are they to decide who lives? It's a 2 sided coin. It's a silly and infantile thing to say we can choose who lives but not who dies. All your choices in these kinds positions you have to choose who lives and who dies. Sometimes the choice to save a life results in the death of others. In this case Letting Lex live may mean the deaths of countless others. I was dissapointed with her failure to see the big picture here.

What right or responsibility a person has to decide whether another lives or dies depends on the situation and what that person knows. When Chloe told Clark that heroes can't make this decision in Fade, she meant that in the context of not knowing whether the victim was planning to do something evil. Specifically, Clark was feeling guilty about the end result of having rescued a stranger, so Chloe essentially told him that there was no way that he could have known, and that he shouldn't have silly thoughts about not wanting to save the lives of strangers in general. He was being a dope, and she set him straight on the matter.

The case of Lex in Vessel was different. They knew what would happen if Clark did not kill Lex, so Chloe recommended sacrificing one life to save many others. I don't think that she liked that idea any better than Clark, but it was the right choice to make based on the knowledge that they had.

In both of these cases, it makes no difference whether Clark chose who to kill or who to let die, and there's nothing silly or infantile about anything Chloe said about this subject.


Originally posted by norman619
This is the lesson Jorel has been trying to teach Clark for a while. The life of one person can not be put before the lives of many others.

In Arrival, Jor-El was asking Clark to let Chloe die needlessly, just so that Clark's lessons would not be interrupted, even temporarily. That's cold. Obviously, he relented, but when Clark didn't make it back in time, Jor-El then set in motion a chain of events (starting with making Clark mortal) that ultimately resulted in the death of Clark's father and now the whole world going up in flames, just to teach Clark a lesson about the value of life?

I realize that Clark can be recalcitrant, but if Jor-El were at least one tiny bit nice instead of silly, infantile, and cruel, then Clark might have actually listened to and respected what he said. Chloe, in her more mature form now, is a better mentor than Jor-El could ever be, and even though Clark doesn't always follow her advice, he'd listen to her long before he'd ever listen to his sadistic bastard of a Kryptonian father (as portrayed on this show).

[myankskent]

I think it has more to do with the fact that Clark can't save every single person and that he needs to save the world before any one individual. But when that one individual is standing right in front of him about to die, he needs to save that person.

[norman619]

Originally posted by DorkMatter
In Arrival, Jor-El was asking Clark to let Chloe die needlessly, just so that Clark's lessons would not be interrupted, even temporarily. That's cold. Obviously, he relented, but when Clark didn't make it back in time, Jor-El then set in motion a chain of events (starting with making Clark mortal) that ultimately resulted in the death of Clark's father and now the whole world going up in flames, just to teach Clark a lesson about the value of life?

I realize that Clark can be recalcitrant, but if Jor-El were at least one tiny bit nice instead of silly, infantile, and cruel, then Clark might have actually listened to and respected what he said. Chloe, in her more mature form now, is a better mentor than Jor-El could ever be, and even though Clark doesn't always follow her advice, he'd listen to her long before he'd ever listen to his sadistic bastard of a Kryptonian father (as portrayed on this show).

Pa Kent chose freely to sacrifice his health to bring Clark back. Jorel did not go to him. Pa Kent went to Jorel. Pa Kent killed himself with his very predictable overly emotional reaction to Lionel. Had he chose to actually listen he'd still be alive. Not sure how much life he still had left tho. But the emotional outburst is what triggered the fatal heart attack.

LOL Sorry but he was not asking him to let her die needlessly. He knew if Clark left he would not return. Which is what happened. And if Clark did not continue with his lessons he would not be properly prepared to deal with the coming threats which would lead to the deaths of more people. It as was fairly obvious Jorel was already aware of them. Clark chose to save Chloe which resulted in his being clueless. Which makes him resp for the people the 2 kryptonians killed in their search for Clark. HE wold have been aware of their approach and with Jorel's help would have dealt with them a wee bit better. These events were gonna happen with or without Jorel's interference. The deciples of Zod were on their way here. They were looking for a new body for Zod. If Clark hadn't been here they simply would have done what Fine did. Engineer a host for him. The Meteore freaks would still exist and still would have killed innocent people. If anyone is to blame for stuff it is Clark's stupid desire to be what he knows he damn well can never ben. Human.

Chloe is no mentor. She's a distraction. Can Chloe prepare him for is being Superman? No. Can she help confuse him more by theinkting with the heart and less with the head? Yes.

It's funny that you think Chloe understands the threat Zod poses better than Clark. Clark is in possesion of MUCH more info than Chloe is on the situation. I know you are a Chloe fan but let's get real here. She is in no position to offer Clark any advice. Lionel is in a better position for than than she is. Lionel is much more objective. Even when it comes to the life of his son. He obviously understands the gravity of the situation far better. The situation is not nebulous at all. It's pretty clear. Lex lives many people die and the world becomes enslaved by Zod. Lex dies and Zod can't come back. Hmmm.... yep no confusion there.


Originally posted by myankskent
I think it has more to do with the fact that Clark can't save every single person and that he needs to save the world before any one individual. But when that one individual is standing right in front of him about to die, he needs to save that person.

He's an idiot. Which is why he hasn't earned his Hero card yet.

[All about Clark]

Wow, are you negative. I disagree completely.

For one, the training would have taken time and that could have left those first 2 aliens plenty of time to cause havoc while searching for Kal-el. And they obviously didn't care if they killed. More lives would have been lost if Clark stayed for the training.

Chloe does help him even if she doesn't know the big picture, I'm sure he finds her soothing to have someone to bounce stuff off of.

The fact is that Zod would have come anyways, it was just a matter of time the 3 would have got him released. Clark never stood a chance. And Jor-el knew Clark needed to learn by way of hard knocks to get him to train even if that meant spending time in the PZ. Jor-el never expected Clark to kill. Jor-el has been one step ahead all along and will continue to be so. Clark is more of a pawn than anything right now. But he will learn.

[norman619]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Wow, are you negative. I disagree completely.

For one, the training would have taken time and that could have left those first 2 aliens plenty of time to cause havoc while searching for Kal-el. And they obviously didn't care if they killed. More lives would have been lost if Clark stayed for the training.

Chloe does help him even if she doesn't know the big picture, I'm sure he finds her soothing to have someone to bounce stuff off of.

The fact is that Zod would have come anyways, it was just a matter of time the 3 would have got him released. Clark never stood a chance. And Jor-el knew Clark needed to learn by way of hard knocks to get him to train even if that meant spending time in the PZ. Jor-el never expected Clark to kill. Jor-el has been one step ahead all along and will continue to be so. Clark is more of a pawn than anything right now. But he will learn.

His training would have started LONG ago. Many seasons ago. And sorry but I don't go asking someone who's clueless about what I should do. It helps to talk to someone that actually knows what's going on. It's like at work. I'm a network admin. Should I go to the janitor and ask him his advice on how to deal with a security threat? Hell no. That is called stupidity. That is pretty much the sae idea as Clark asking Chloe how to deal with Zod and the "vessel." Chloe's answer pretty much showed she had no idea how serious the threat was.

Jorel does not control Clark. Which as we have seen has caused him much frustration. Hence the heavy handed treatment of Clark in past episodes. Jorel, Fine, and Zod have all been more that a step ahead. Try a football field ahead. Why? Cuz Clark isn't using his Super grey matter. Clark is only alive becasue Fine wanted toleave him to Zod. Pretty sad.