Lionel's apology to Martha...

[Lobo007]

What did you think of Lionel's apology to Martha? Do you think it might lay some groundwork for a future relatuionship between them?

And here is a twist for you. Now that Lionel is or has been possessed by Jor-El, do you think it might be Jor-El having feelings for Martha? After all we saw him in Relic or 1961 as its referred to, have feeling for Lana's Great Uncle's girlfriend. Why couldn't Jor-El have feelings for Martha?

[Maagic]

I don't get what that extraordniarily long silence between them was during that scene...

[Billy Jor-El]

Lionel's apology, or if you will just explanation that Martha could see as Lionel was there (and to a great extent caused) Jonathon's death was a largely redeeming quality in the MB character, but I can't see their relationship ever being more than friends, nor would I want it.

Besdies, what with Brainiac appearing to Martha as Jonathon, and her general remaining grief I don't think she would be even close to ready to accept anyone on an intimate level right now; her head is more than screwed up right now! Oh yeah, and as Senator, she probably has her plate full with business anyway, eh?

[stooge4ever]

I very much saw the feelings of redemption that Lionel wanted. He felt guilty and, being embroiled in everything that's happening, he wanted to get it off his chest.

on a side note, with this episode being greatly influenced by william shakespeare's plays ( Hamlet especially), I was glad to see the reference to Macbeth with Lionel rubbing his hands throughout his apology/confession. I was ready to shout "Out, out damn spot!":D

[happasaiyan]

i was confused...its not like he killed jonathon. ...jonathon was tossing him around like a rag-doll and lionel was just trying to talk to him.

...which leads me to another thing that pissed me off because i just wanted to see clark apologize to lionel after what happened in the barn. bah.

[youandme]

YOu know I really liked that scene where he apoligized. But I think in a way the writers are setting us up for Lionel's death, Like he had to be forgiven by Martha before he goes or something like that. I saw Lionel in a whole new way.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Maagic
I don't get what that extraordniarily long silence between them was during that scene...
I actually loved that part of the scene. It shows how completely overwhelming, shocking, and infuritating this news is for Martha. It leaves her speechless. And from Lionel's point of view, he's waiting for a reaction from her, and he finally realizes she can't put a reaction into words.

[superhippie2000]

Originally posted by Maagic
I don't get what that extraordniarily long silence between them was during that scene...


ya i was hoping lionel would tell martha what he was going to tell mr kent. i was like damn say something

[alienkinfolk]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I actually loved that part of the scene. It shows how completely overwhelming, shocking, and infuritating this news is for Martha. It leaves her speechless. And from Lionel's point of view, he's waiting for a reaction from her, and he finally realizes she can't put a reaction into words.

I agree!
He hits her with a ton of bruicks and expects her to respond!Martha has been trying so hard to deal with this new improved lionel with all its trappings and now he tells her this. i was surprised she didn't break the silence by hurdling the good china at his face while he was walking out the door.
Lionel can love her, or try to woo her all he wants , she'll never fall for him.I've never seen a mouse sleeping next to a serpant.

and I can't say that Jor-El has feeling for Martha, he just taken over a body that loves the girl then again who wouldn't, MK is golden.

[mortalreckoning]

Originally posted by Lobo007
What did you think of Lionel's apology to Martha? Do you think it might lay some groundwork for a future relatuionship between them?

And here is a twist for you. Now that Lionel is or has been possessed by Jor-El, do you think it might be Jor-El having feelings for Martha? After all we saw him in Relic or 1961 as its referred to, have feeling for Lana's Great Uncle's girlfriend. Why couldn't Jor-El have feelings for Martha?

I think his apology is just the usual Luthor backpedalling when he suspects someone has 'found him out'

He knows Clark knows of his visit to Jonathan the night of jonathan's death
He rightly concludes that Clark would tell Martha of this

So now he thinks that if he apologises and put an "I was only trying to help and Jonathan misunderstood' SPIN on the whole incident, that Martha will 'understand' and he can continue his pursuit of her

as for Jor-el, he cannot have feelings for Martha
Jor-el died on Krypton
at best, it can be presumed that this 'Jor-el' is an AI

as such, if 'he' can be said to 'love' anyone it is only Clark/Kal-el and only because Jor-el created it and the real Jor-el loved Clark/Kal-el
:D

[Poweranimals]

Lionel is not Jor-El. He even revealed that in this episode. He's just an oracle. He seems only aware of certain things. He seems to be basically sending messages through Lionel.

[LuthorRequiem2]

"on a side note, with this episode being greatly influenced by william shakespeare's plays ( Hamlet especially), I was glad to see the reference to Macbeth with Lionel rubbing his hands throughout his apology/confession. I was ready to shout "Out, out damn spot!"

I love Macbeth! Shakespeare rules. But I haven't read enough of him to know what other references their were to Shakespeare in this episode. What about Hamlet? What were the references?

[stooge4ever]

mostly, it was the hamlet references. in hamlet (as far as i remember, reading summaries and stealing my brother's notes every once in a while), hamlet's father is killed and his uncle usurps the throne. hamlet is visted by the ghost of his dad, who tells him to avenge the death and kill the uncle. hamlet=clark and father=father and uncle=lionel.

also, there was something in the episode where chloe mentioned something about "horatio," a character IN hamlet.

mostly, it was hamlet allusions, but the aforementioned rubbing of the hands seems to be inspired by macbeth.

[Kal-El04]

Originally posted by Lobo007
What did you think of Lionel's apology to Martha? Do you think it might lay some groundwork for a future relatuionship between them?

And here is a twist for you. Now that Lionel is or has been possessed by Jor-El, do you think it might be Jor-El having feelings for Martha? After all we saw him in Relic or 1961 as its referred to, have feeling for Lana's Great Uncle's girlfriend. Why couldn't Jor-El have feelings for Martha?

What appology, even when he was trying to confess something he still lied. He didn't explain the situation, he twisted it.

[Harmon_7]

I still have a hard time with the fact, that this was where they were going the whole time. If it was, it would have made it more believable without the picture (he could have shown it as proof he was telling the truth later). Anything other than a midnight meeting minutes after the election and then sneaking off the farm like he did after Mr. Kent's heart attack.

[Dangerous George]

Jor-el in Lionel's body going after Martha?

Are you kidding, he'd be going after Lana?

Wouldn't that be interesting? Jor-el in Lionel's body and Zod in Lex's body, the Luthors be duking it out for the sole benefit of two aliens going for the pink prize?

lol.


peace

[CB2006]

Lionel's apology, in my opinion, wasn't sincere. It was like he was trying to put the blame for Jonathan's death on Jonathan himself and making him(Lionel) look innocent. He made it appear that Jonathan was too hot-headed and stubborn for his own good and that he let his temper get the best of him. If I was Martha, I would not accept the apology and would want him to stay out my life. The way he approached Jonathan that night with comments about putting himself into the spotlight with such a dangerous secret and their 'common interest', and the smug way he said it all showed that he wasn't being helpful, but rather that he was going to use this to his own advantage the same way he held Clark's adoption over Jonathan's head all these years.

[Dangerous George]

for sure MB is not a nice guy, which is why he is affectionately known as MB on this site. lol


peace

[annette welling]

I loved it shows how Lionel cant stand lieing to her.He isnt going to die and they will sometime in the sixth season i beleive i have heard rumors for a long time and even though she is still grieving lionel has been there for her to cry on her shoulder with her he is good he thinks and with him you can see her letting go than just being all bottled up.

LIONEL/MARTHA 4-EVER and EVER

They will definetly be together in the 6th season

woohoo

[superhayleah]

annette welling, you are so right.

[Dean_19]

They won't get together IMO, now way. Just because Lionel has seemingly turned good in the 5th Season doesn't erase all the evil things he's done. Killed his parents, tried to kill Chloe, tried to experiment on Clark, poisoned Lex, heck as recently as S4 in Transferrence he was going to kill Clark (albeit in his body) and he beat the crap out of JK. Martha would never forget all that....and thats not even touching on the RPM JK would reach in his grave if anything ever happened between Martha and Lionel....!!!

[LusciousLois]

Lionel is a flat-out liar! If his intentions were to "help" keep Clark's secret, why didn't he just say that in the first place? He knew Jonathan had a heart problem and he was only there to aggravate him. I watched the episode again, just to re-evaluate the confrontation. His undertone was pure evil, nothing more, nothing less.

[Harmon_7]

Originally posted by LusciousLois
Lionel is a flat-out liar! If his intentions were to "help" keep Clark's secret, why didn't he just say that in the first place? He knew Jonathan had a heart problem and he was only there to aggravate him. I watched the episode again, just to re-evaluate the confrontation. His undertone was pure evil, nothing more, nothing less.

I agree, I did the same as you and watched the episode again afterwards. I seen it as you did and cannot believe this is where they were going, it's just to unbelievable. It feels like they just seen it as the easiest way to kill off Pa Kent and then later changed their minds.