Two things about this episode bothered me... [Archive]

Nospam

05-05-2006, 12:34 AM

First, if you were in love with someone and they meant the world to you and they just went through one of the most difficult and trying years of their life would you cheap out on their birthday and not get them anything, not even a card? Well, that's what the writers want us to be believe Chloe did. She can afford to drive back and forth between Smallville and Metropolis, but not even a card for his birthday? Before anyone says anything, I'd feel the same way if it was Martha or Lois. Chloe could have made the cake or put together a scrap book of all their WOW adventures. I thought this was completely out of character for Chole, just as I would expect it to be out of character for Martha or even Lois. The guy has had an extremely trying year and any true friend would recognize that.

Second thing, during the loft scene between Clark and Lois, Clark mentions that sometimes he feels that Lois knows him better than anyone. Really? Better than your mother or your best friend of five years that adores you, watches out for you, keeps your counsel, has shared your fears, your joy, your ups and your downs, and keeper of the most incredible secret the world has ever known? I can't believe Clark said that with a straight face. How many times has Lois made one comment or another about Clark and Chloe had to correct her by saying, "You don't know Clark the way I do"?

Both situations seemed like ham-handed Clois anvils. More than anything I'd like to see ED grow into a more appealing character, but if TPTB expect us to see iconic Lois in the scenarios above then they are more inept than I thought.

xrayvision

05-05-2006, 12:52 AM

I have to agree completely. The Clois scene was nice, but they had to take down other characters to make it happen, which I don't like. It's like what they did with inferring Martha never giving him a birthday party in Calling just to build up Lana. It's unrealistic, and I don't buy it.

MBCorp

05-05-2006, 12:56 AM

I thought it was unrealistic that Chloe didn't get Clark a birthday present. I mean, really. Look at that girl's obviously expensive wardrobe. She can buy all of those nice suits and yet can't get her best friend one measly little birthday card? :p That just seemed rather OOC.

xrayvision

05-05-2006, 01:05 AM

Like I said, it's tearing down characters to make another look good. It's similar to how they had ED show the most skin out of the 3 in Aqua.

Nospam

05-05-2006, 01:22 AM

Originally posted by xrayvision
I have to agree completely. The Clois scene was nice, but they had to take down other characters to make it happen, which I don't like. It's like what they did with inferring Martha never giving him a birthday party in Calling just to build up Lana. It's unrealistic, and I don't buy it.

Yes! Excellent example, and again centered around Clark's birthday. I forgot about the cake incident until you reminded me, but I do recall many were like, "WTF?", especially when Martha is known for her baking skills. Martha wanted a family so badly and she cherished Clark so dearly when he finally came into their lives that it is completely unrealistic that Martha never gave him a birthday party. It's also equally unrealistic for Chloe not to give Clark something -- a card, baked him a cake, clippings of him from the WOW in a scrap book, anything. The girl can own an expensive Tazer, drive all over the country, and, as MBCorp pointed out, maintain a business wardrobe. It's completely out of character.

Overlord

05-05-2006, 01:50 AM

Agreed on both counts. I'm sure the actors/actresses are just as annoyed. They know it's garbage, but they have to do it.

In the DVD commentary for the old George Reeves Superman show they talk about an episode when Clark either had amnesia or was sick. Lois and the gang was helping him, all while he wasn't wearing his glasses. The cast wanted to know how they could possibly pretend that they didn't recognize him. The answer: "if you don't you'll be fired."

Originally posted by Nospam
Chloe could have made the cake or put together a scrap book of all their WOW adventures.The scrap book idea actually could have been pretty simple and cool. Maybe she gives it to him privately, and reminds him of all the people he's helped. Or she gives it to him when everyone else is around, Lois makes some crack about Chloe giving Clark a gift that's all about her, and then Chloe explains it later. Doesn't that seem like the kind of thing Chloe would do?

Instead we get Lois doing everything so that they can say, "of course he thinks Lois knows him well, she gave him that journal earlier, because she obviously knows deep down that he'll be a reporter someday." Oh, I'm sorry, I had been watching the previous 100+ episodes. I didn't realize I was supposed to ignore that material.

Wow... bitter much? I guess I am.

constancelight

05-05-2006, 01:54 AM

I completely agree. This happens a lot on this show. They got to tear down characters to up others. It's just bad story telling.

Sk8erGur1

05-05-2006, 02:11 AM

So... I don't get this...

You guys are upset with the fact that Chloe didn't buy him anything for his birthday? What?

How about the fact that she's been an outlet for Clark to run to with his problems for the past.. what.. 5 years? Or maybe.. since she's known him. I don't think Clark gives a damn whether or not Chloe gave him a gift when he KNOWS how much she's done for him and been there for him. That's gift enough. The fact that she was kind enough to even show up/throw him a party was gift enough! Jesus....

If you want to talk about being upset over something, how about the fact that someone who claimed to have loved Clark for all those years with every fiber in her body didn't even show up to the event let alone send a card or gift. That fact regarding Lana was a big disappointment for me.

Overlord

05-05-2006, 02:20 AM

ms.c.

05-05-2006, 09:34 AM

Oh, I'm sorry, I had been watching the previous 100+ episodes. I didn't realize I was supposed to ignore that material.

Nospam and Overlord - I agree completely. It was completely out of character. I just made a thread about the lack of a gift being so wrong and out of character for Chloe. But, the line about EDLois knowing him was just as ridiculous and out of nowhere.

I can't believe the way they have characters declare things that COMPLETELY contradict what we've seen. It shows no respect for the audience. And I think it makes the show a lot less enjoyable.

myankskent

05-05-2006, 09:40 AM

I don't look at it as a big deal. Chloe has done enough for Clark this year and she did help throw the party. What bothers me is the fact that Chloe and Lois just keep running into each other. I'm tired of the writers comfusing us about which one is the "real" Lois Lane. It needs to stop. You'll end up with yet another love triangle on this show, this time involving cousins!

BadToad

05-05-2006, 09:42 AM

I don't think Clark and Chloe are worried about getting each other birthday presents. Their relationship is so far beyond that, and so tight, I don't think they sweat the small stuff.

And while I thought the line from Clark was a bit ham-fisted, I also liked it a little. Sometimes it is easier for someone that doesn't know you as well to know a part of you that those closest don't see. But personally, I would've done away with the line. It was a bit much.

Supergirl Jam

05-05-2006, 09:48 AM

Originally posted by Sk8erGur1
So... I don't get this...

You guys are upset with the fact that Chloe didn't buy him anything for his birthday? What?

How about the fact that she's been an outlet for Clark to run to with his problems for the past.. what.. 5 years? Or maybe.. since she's known him. I don't think Clark gives a damn whether or not Chloe gave him a gift when he KNOWS how much she's done for him and been there for him. That's gift enough. The fact that she was kind enough to even show up/throw him a party was gift enough! Jesus....

If you want to talk about being upset over something, how about the fact that someone who claimed to have loved Clark for all those years with every fiber in her body didn't even show up to the event let alone send a card or gift. That fact regarding Lana was a big disappointment for me.

Thank You! Exactly how i felt. Really i think you guys are putting to much into a little thing. But then again you are Chloe fans so if i was a chole fan i would also probably get upset too. I actually liked his surprise party. Martha was involved because she was there so that's pretty realistic. Yeah it didn't show the rest give him the gifts to clark but that's probably because they wanted to make Lois gift to Clark stand out. I think there is a reason why it only showed her give a gift to clark and not the rest. Chloe could have given Clark that kind of gift for reported skills. But Lois gives him the gift for another reason. Lois knows Clark is going through a lot with his fathers death and with the breakup with Lana. Instead of saying to him, "Tell me how you feel Darn it!" she gives him a journal for he could write what he feels in a healthy way. And i think that's cool. Chloe and Martha probably did give him a gift but it didn't showed. why? Again i say because theres a reason why it only showed Lois give him the gift. I think later on the episodes he's going to use the journal and It's going to mean a lot to him. And that's pretty cool because the gift is from his future wife.

Billy Jor-El

05-05-2006, 10:15 AM

TPTB prefer us to have the ultimate suspension of disbelief, I guess.

But perhaps deep down Clark knows damn well how important Chloe is, and how she feels towards him. He may not let it show, but maybe those feelings are mutual on some level, just her being near him is gift enough. Though I still wish Farm Boy would WAKE UP! Chloe IS the ultimate gift ;)

SnarkMasterJ

05-05-2006, 10:28 AM

Word on a stick, NoSpam and Overlord.

Originally posted by BadToad
I don't think Clark and Chloe are worried about getting each other birthday presents. Their relationship is so far beyond that, and so tight, I don't think they sweat the small stuff.

True enough. But I think what's got everyone in a tizzy is the fact that they gave such a character embellishment to Lois. I totally agree that the Chlark dynamic has gone beyond the physical exchange of material possessions, but I don't think that something as meaningful and personal as what EDLois gave Clark was even meant for her character. While sweet and considerate, it's terribly OOC and unkeeping with what we've seen of all three characters -- Clark, Chloe and EDLois. I just can't accept blatant lightswitching. It's insulting.

Originally posted by BadToad
And while I thought the line from Clark was a bit ham-fisted, I also liked it a little. Sometimes it is easier for someone that doesn't know you as well to know a part of you that those closest don't see. But personally, I would've done away with the line. It was a bit much.

Phrased differently, the line would've been harmless and probably not even that big of a deal. But the way it was worded is completely ridiculous and unfounded. Nowhere in canon could I find support for EDLois knowing next to anything about Clark, especially compared with people like Chloe and Martha.

Watching Smallville

05-05-2006, 10:56 AM

Originally posted by BadToad
I don't think Clark and Chloe are worried about getting each other birthday presents. Their relationship is so far beyond that, and so tight, I don't think they sweat the small stuff.

And while I thought the line from Clark was a bit ham-fisted, I also liked it a little. Sometimes it is easier for someone that doesn't know you as well to know a part of you that those closest don't see. But personally, I would've done away with the line. It was a bit much.
I agree with you (again) about the gift thing.

And I posted on another thread that although I think the line from the barn scene was a bit HEAVYHANDED, Clark does have reason to say this. Lois treats him like no one else on the show. She says things to him that no one else would say. Clark is the one who knows whether what he's hearing is hitting him at the core or not. This was his way of saying that those "unique" remarks from Lois have an effect on him that he likes.

milton fine

05-05-2006, 10:58 AM

did any of you guys notice the other gifts on the table one of those could have been chloes gift just becuse they didnt show dosent mean she didnt give him one it just wwasnt important enough for them to show it

Watching Smallville

05-05-2006, 11:00 AM

Chloe said she didn't get him a gift. She's calling in an I.O.U.

tsebehtsiellivllams

05-05-2006, 11:09 AM

doesn't clark dislike his birthdays anyway? i thought that's why martha never gave him a birthday party (referring to when lana did) and he probably would have told chloe that he didn't like his birthdays also.....so maybe she didnt want to get him a gift because of that.........reaching for straws lol

mortalreckoning

05-05-2006, 11:21 AM

Originally posted by milton fine
did any of you guys notice the other gifts on the table one of those could have been chloes gift just becuse they didnt show dosent mean she didnt give him one it just wwasnt important enough for them to show it

yes, but Chloe herself said she'd forget a couple of the IOUs he owed her (presumably for helping him out in the past)

the implication being that THAT was her 'gift' to him

Chloe: and since I'm on an 'intern' budget, I thought I'd just comp you a couple of those IOUs you owe me

dhacker615

05-05-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally posted by Overlord
It's not a question of whether Chloe is a good or bad friend. It's a question of what the character would have done based on what we've seen of her from the entire series. I don't think it's realistic that Chloe doesn't get Clark some sort of gift/card, when all we've seen for five years is that she's obsessed with the guy.

I know it seems like a small thing, but: (1) it's representative of poor character consistancy/motivation in general; and (2) it pulls you out of the story because it makes you stop and think, "What? Did that just happen?" Which makes the show slightly less enjoyable.

I disagree.

No doubt that the female characters in general and Chloe in particular have been poorly handled this season. Chloe has been less 'out-of-character' than having pretty much no character. She has been just a plot device/sounding-board for most of the season. Like most annoyances in SV, it has gotten much worse post-'Hypnotic'.

This week was the first good news on the Chloe front in a long while. The line about not bringing a Birthday present was a very good one. She linked it directly to the fact that Clark rarely buys her one. There was affection, but she gave a nod to the one-way nature of their dynamic. It was a perfect little character moment in a season too often devoid of them.

The other small blessing was that Chloe actually took more than 60 seconds to do something. The fact that Clark needed her to decode Kryptonian (?) was ... odd, but at least it didn't happen instantly.

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I agree with you (again) about the gift thing.

And I posted on another thread that although I think the line from the barn scene was a bit HEAVYHANDED, Clark does have reason to say this. Lois treats him like no one else on the show. She says things to him that no one else would say. Clark is the one who knows whether what he's hearing is hitting him at the core or not. This was his way of saying that those "unique" remarks from Lois have an effect on him that he likes.

It wasn't a great line, but it wasn't terrible either. I took the scene as written to be a chance for Lois and Clark to do a little light flirting. The actors had a hard time with it for some reason, which odd given the plausible sexual undertone to a lot their scenes together. TW and ED have made a lot less suggestive dialouge crackle.

Anyway, two people that are sizing each other up often exagerate to get each others attention. That is doubly true of 19-year-old people.

xrayvision

05-05-2006, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by dhacker615
This week was the first good news on the Chloe front in a long while. The line about not bringing a Birthday present was a very good one. She linked it directly to the fact that Clark rarely buys her one.

Both Clark & Lois bought her a typewriter used by Chloe's hero, Nelly Blye, in Spell (you see the box in the episode and they open the box in a deleted scene shown on the DVD). So I wouldn't say he never buys her anything.

As much as I didn't like that scene as I could have, I think it shows that despite all that Clark does to save people, he still doesn't expect anything in return. He did save Chloe many times (even in Arrival), but lately she has truly been there for him, and I think he appreciates that much more than any material gift. The reason she was in danger in Arrival was because she prevented Lex from finding out Clark's secret. She has been a better friend after knowing the secret than before. Her actions in episodes like Blank, Spirit, Commencement, Mortal, Hidden, Thirst, Lockdown, Reckoning, and so many more clearly show this. Maybe a deleted scene will show any gifts either she or Martha got him. Clark has had worse birthdays (like when Jeremiah stabbed him with the Starblade & left him to die).

savingpeoplething

05-05-2006, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by tsebehtsiellivllams
doesn't clark dislike his birthdays anyway? i thought that's why martha never gave him a birthday party (referring to when lana did) and he probably would have told chloe that he didn't like his birthdays also.....so maybe she didnt want to get him a gift because of that.........reaching for straws lol

After rewatching the episode, I noticed something I hadn't previously:

When Chloe sits down in the loft after the Clark / Lois conversation, she says to him "You handled the party thing really well" or something to that effect.
The comment is supposed to be interpreted that birthdays were a bad thing for him and to know that, now makes more sense for Chloe not to have done anything. She purposely didn't get him a gift because she knows how he feels about it.
Doesn't Clark say something to Lana when she makes him the cake back in Season 2 about how he doesn't do birthdays because he doesn't really know when he was born (could be a little offbase, but I seem to remember something)?
I feel a WHOLE lot better about the whole "gift-giving" issue after thinking about it like this.

xrayvision

05-05-2006, 02:59 PM

I hope they can make him lighten up about his birthday. I want him to stop being the moping CK and rise up to being the happy & optimistic Clark with a good outlook on life that we all know & love from the comics/movies.

Overlord

05-05-2006, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by savingpeoplething
After rewatching the episode, I noticed something I hadn't previously:

When Chloe sits down in the loft after the Clark / Lois conversation, she says to him "You handled the party thing really well" or something to that effect. The comment is supposed to be interpreted that birthdays were a bad thing for him and to know that, now makes more sense for Chloe not to have done anything.I'm pretty sure that line is referring to the card from his dad, not a general dislike for birthdays.

I know it's a small thing, but I stand by my previous comments. They made Chloe do something out of character so that they could set up Lois (and they didn't want to use the screentime to show a couple more gifts). If it doesn't bother you, that's great. But stuff like this makes the show less enjoyable for me, that's all. Still won't miss next week's episode though.

myankskent

05-05-2006, 03:05 PM

Originally posted by xrayvision
I hope they can make him lighten up about his birthday. I want him to stop being the moping CK and rise up to being the happy & optimistic Clark with a good outlook on life that we all know & love from the comics/movies.

Well maybe JorEl can tell him when his birthday truly was. The only problem is, he won't be able to tell anyone because his birthday is probably something like 5 BK, 5 kryptonian years before the destruction of krypton.

Watching Smallville

05-05-2006, 03:10 PM

Good one. :cool:

xrayvision

05-05-2006, 03:13 PM

It would also be impossible to translate what day he was born to Earth time/date/year.

I would like them to have another birthday episode next year where he can finally accept being thrown a birthday party just so it shows he can get through this difficulty.

kryptonite-proof

05-05-2006, 03:27 PM

Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't Clark say "sometimes it seems like you know me better than anyone"? I haven't rewatched it but that's what I recall. To me, the word seems there is the loophole. He isn't saying that she DOES know him better than anyone else, merely that on rare occassions she shocks him with how well she seems to get him.

Having said that, I am not a big fan of the times the writers feel the need to remind us in a none-too-subtle manner of anything relating to the future of superman. Meaning I don't like those anvils you guys refer to, whether they relate to some relationship or simple Clark becoming Superman. The subtle things I'm ok with, just not the overblown things.

liana

05-05-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by kryptonite-proof
Perhaps I'm wrong, but didn't Clark say "sometimes it seems like you know me better than anyone"? I haven't rewatched it but that's what I recall. To me, the word seems there is the loophole. He isn't saying that she DOES know him better than anyone else, merely that on rare occassions she shocks him with how well she seems to get him.

You are absolutelly right. The key word is "sometimes". As in sometimes a stranger can look at you and understand you better than people around you do. It does not mean that this person knows you best, but sometimes they can have a clear view of you, devoided of all prejudices that people who knows you best have about how you should feel or about how you should react to something. And this person has this understanding about how you are feeling exactly because she doesn't know you that well. I don't know if I'm making myself clear, but that is how I understand this. This doesn't mean that Lois knows him best, but that there are moments, like that one, that she is able to understand him best.

jaime,oburg

05-05-2006, 04:13 PM

I kinda thought the Clois scene was harsh.... In a round -about -way Lana was compared to a bike and Lois was the Harley. Ouch!

liana

05-05-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
I kinda thought the Clois scene was harsh.... In a round -about -way Lana was compared to a bike and Lois was the Harley. Ouch!

I guess in a way it was. But I like to think that what makes one person a bike and the other a Harley are you eyes only. In the future Lois Lane will be Clark's Harley while Lana Lang was the bike, but for Pete Ross (her future husband) Lana will be the Harley. It doesn't mean that Lana is a bike, but that for Clark she is, because she is not the one he is meant to be with.

shirkie

05-05-2006, 04:36 PM

Isn't anyone going to point out Lana was too stuck-up to send Clark a birthday card through the mail? I get that they broke up and there's tension between them, but for two people who were supposedly in love for all this time, she sure didn't bother to send him a simple Hallmark.

As for the horrible analogy about bikes and Harleys, did anyone see what Omar wrote at TWoP? I quote:
Also, Lois compares Lana to a bicycle and herself to a Harley. Make of that what you will, but send me the PhotoShop of Lois with handlebars sticking out of her boobs.Hee!
shirkie

LovelyLoisLane

05-05-2006, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by BadToad
I thought the line from Clark was a bit ham-fisted, I also liked it a little. Sometimes it is easier for someone that doesn't know you as well to know a part of you that those closest don't see. But personally, I would've done away with the line. It was a bit much.

I agree with your sentiment, however, I actually thought the line was appropriate. If he'd said she knew him better than anyone without saying anything else then that would have been ham fisted. As it was however he said "Sometimes you don't know me at all. . ." THEN after that he said "Sometimes you know me better than anyone." It doesn't mean that Chloe isn't a good friend who can meet him on the same page or that Martha isn't obviously the one who really knows Clark best. All that means is that sometimes Lois doesn't have a clue, but she does have her moments where maybe Clark feels that she's the only one that's on the same page. It could be as few as two times that she's met him on that page the whole time he's known her but it's an acknowledgment of that.

Chloe arrived immediately after that so the writer was able to push two shipper moments together, but I actually didn't mind this Clois one because it was a moment more than it was a foreshadow. I like foreshadows but they can get a little ridiculous at times.

I don't think Chloe's a big fat jerk for not getting Clark a present, but it does seem weird and it almost seems to me that the show has a sub theme of "The Poor College Student" like back in Recruit where the only thing Lois had to eat was Instant Ramen Noodles. I do however think that it was weird that she didn't get him a lovely written card, maybe even one she made herself since she IS an intern at a Newspaper where she WRITES and put the IOU in the card. It would have had the same effect and not come across as an OOC moment. Her pep talks more than make up for it however. I certainly don’t agree that it cut down her character to make Lois look better. Definitely not on the same level that was achieved in cutting down Martha so Lana could be the only one to celebrate Clark’s birthday. I mean Martha, Chloe and Lois all celebrated Clark’s birthday and that of itself was a gift and a show of their care for Clark.

MBCorp

05-05-2006, 04:40 PM

It probably cost Chloe about 40 bucks to drive 3 hours to SV for the surprise party. Maybe that's where all her money went.:p

lanakk1

05-05-2006, 04:43 PM

Originally posted by Sk8erGur1
So... I don't get this...

If you want to talk about being upset over something, how about the fact that someone who claimed to have loved Clark for all those years with every fiber in her body didn't even show up to the event let alone send a card or gift. That fact regarding Lana was a big disappointment for me.

yes lana for me too. didnt even say happybirthday to clark.

Watching Smallville

05-05-2006, 05:48 PM