whats the verdict on the (former?) MB

[shinedown]

so lionels character has gone through some major developments this season. i'm starting to feel like his "position" in terms of being good or bad is finally determined for sure. what do you think about lionel at this point

[Aloof]

I picked the first one and the last one.

[F-Stop Blues]

Originally posted by Aloof
I picked the first one and the last one.

Yeah that seems about right for Lionel. Really who knows. I think that he's been good ever since Commencement when he was possesed by the stone.

[shinedown]

i picked the first one, i actually started accepting him and martha as a couple. he is truly trying to help.

[Bookwrm17]

Although I wouldn't quite say he's angelic, I picked the first one, since I am a huge Mionel fan.

[KEakaCK]

Angelic isn't the right word but I do like how he as turned and is trying to help and protect Clark's secret instead of using it for his own benefit.

[CallMeClark]

I love him as Lion-El! :)

[LuckyKrypto]

I still have a hard time believing that he has gone good for good..lol.

I like how he is being used as a vessel for Jor-El, (at least that is what it appears to me) I wonder though how things will turn out for Lionel. I mean, he knows Clark's secret, and in almost every story I have ever read, Clark/Superman and the Luthors are always enemies.....so it makes me wonder about him....

[Ladyhawk]

I picked the first one also, even though I wouldn't go as far as "angelic". The scales have turned, Lionel is going to good and Lex is going to evil. Too bad they couldn't meet in the middle. I lost all doubts in last week and this week's episode that there was any alterior motive left in the MB. He's been chipped by Jor-El, Martha and Clark (transference) - those are hard odds to beat :)

[Aloof]

Originally posted by F-Stop Blues
Yeah that seems about right for Lionel. Really who knows. I think that he's been good ever since Commencement when he was possesed by the stone.

With Lionel, you're never really sure...

[warriorrenegade]

Maybe this is the final send up of his character. Making us feel good about his change only to see him die in the end. It'd be like " ahh he just started to become the good guy and now he dies WTF"

[kkjdt]

I am just not sure he is good considering he tried to blackmail Jonathon........ I am just not buying it yet......... if he was good I don't think he would of done that?

[Billy Jor-El]

I can't quite handle him with Martha, but the MB is certainly channeling the right energy. He indeed may turn out to be the major force in Farm Boy becoming a true Super Hero.

Many pegged it with Lion-El still being a voice for Jor-El, that's for sure.

This episode was finally some meat to the story, and I ain't just talking steak, it was filet mignon all the way :)

[God-Man]

Lionel is on the side of the angels, and I love it. Just as Lex is turing to the dark side, Lionel is becoming good. Awesome. He'll probably die now.

[LuthorRequiem2]

It's really hard to say right now if he's good or bad. Something about him...he truly seemed good in this episode. Maybe he's part good/part ruthless, in the sense of the ends justify the means: he'll do ruthless things, as long as it helps Clark in his journey. But once Clark finds out about the things he's been doing, he'd say, "You can't do these things just to help me. You can't fight evil with evil". OR maybe he is good...I don't know! I'm still confused about whether or not he killed that girl's mom in "Vengenace" and no one seems to have an answer for me on that one, and that would help determine my opinion of him right now. Also confused on why he would tell Lex in last season's "Onyx", "You've finally proved yourself to be the son you've always wanted" and "We're Luthors" if he was good...unless maybe he was going to go back to being bad, but when Jor-El inhabited him, it reminded him of the goodness inside him, and he truly did want to change.....Any opinions on my theories?

And kkjdt, Lionel did not technically "blackmail" Jonathan. He said that he and Jonathan could have a partnership and he said, "You and I both have a secret we would...protect with our lives. I have nothing but respect for a man who would deliberately hurl himself into the public eye with such a...a dangerous secret that must stay hidden." So, while it may SOUND like blackmail from Lionel's tone, he really may not have meant it that way. He said nothing like, "You're going to be working for me now, Senator, unless you want Clark's secret revealed' or anything like that.

[Donnie Brasco]

Lionel is God. He is all good :D

[MamaK]

Hard to tell - not sure if this transformation will last or will events unfold (Lionel's use as an oracle is over??) and then the MB is back.

[tjpw fanatic]

I actually think he's good now. But there is still some serious doubt that he's a perfect little angel.

[Donnie Brasco]

Its possible no doubt. However he was good while he wasn't an oracle was he not?

Mercy etc


Originally posted by tjpw fanatic
I actually think he's good now. But there is still some serious doubt that he's a perfect little angel.

I agree

[beefywellingtom]

My take is that we'll be reeled in with the Mionel and Lioracle. As Lionel says himself "Can a man deny his true nature?" Let's not forget this is a man who blew up his parents for money to start his company. A man who pretended to be blind, then went through his "I got the spirit" phase...

The MB will come out. And when he does it'll be great.

Right now I'm going to enjoy the conflict that grows between Clark and Lex. Lex has Clark's girl so now Clark is gonna get Lex's dad. It's going to drive Lex insane thus creating MBII.

I love this show. :)

[erances23]

quote:
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Originally posted by F-Stop Blues
Yeah that seems about right for Lionel. Really who knows. I think that he's been good ever since Commencement when he was possesed by the stone.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

i think he actually started going to the good side after transference in season 4 where claimed he was a "changed man: after he regained his body.

personally, i think lionel's concern for the safety of humanity by confessing to clark, chloe and martha about his knowledge of clark's powers shows that he is truly a changed man, for the better.... unless he's setting aside his own plans for now so he can save humanity. i mean, what good is an evil scheme if there are no drones in the planet to play with?

[mortalreckoning]

I don't think Lionel is 'good' at all...
I think people have had one too many 'good Lionel' anvils dropped on their heads and forgotten who this man is

he does things for Martha, because he wants Martha

he does things for Clark, to:

*impress Martha

*to save the world (for himself), because if the world goes down the toilet, all the power and influence he has is moot...
you cannot rule/control mankind if mankind is gone, can you?

*to thwart Lex...
let's face it, when he isn't being jealous of Lex, he's allegedly trying to 'teach him a lesson'

in the end, Lionel is for Lionel and only Lionel...

[Pal-El]

Originally posted by mortalreckoning


*to thwart Lex...
let's face it, when he isn't being jealous of Lex, he's allegedly trying to 'teach him a lesson'

in the end, Lionel is for Lionel and only Lionel...

I disagree, I think he's finally realised the path he has sent lex down will lead to pain for all concerned, and he regrets it.

Im loving the new Lionel I have to say.

I also agree with God-man, he will probably die now.

[tjpw fanatic]

mortalreckoning, I LOVE YOUR AVATAR!!!

[charmedchick]

I think you can tell by now what i voted by looking at my avatar. if not..

I voted "lionel is angelically good, i'm starting to like the idea of mionel"...

[Krypton935]

I voted for : he says he's an oracle and he seems like he's trying to help clark but a large part of me doubts it...

because I don't think someone of that nature can just turn around and be totally good

[spideyfan]

i think hes good now...although some of his methods may be extreme, he is still trying to stop Lex from going down the wrong path...in which he is already too late

[mortalreckoning]

Originally posted by tjpw fanatic
mortalreckoning, I LOVE YOUR AVATAR!!!

thank you...and your avatar is breathtaking *drool*
BTW, I always enjoy your pic fic on the TW pic thread *fans self madly*

[tjpw fanatic]

thanks:D

[Kara15]

Originally posted by kkjdt
I am just not sure he is good considering he tried to blackmail Jonathon........ I am just not buying it yet......... if he was good I don't think he would of done that?

I think he was telling the truth when he said that he wasn't blackmailing Jonathan and that Jonathan took it the wrong way.

[tjpw fanatic]

I kind of feel the same way Kara15. Jonathon just probably got caught up and didn't think twice about it. I still have my doubts though.

[liana]

I voted for the "he is good 90% of time". But the truth is that what I really think is that he has good intentions in his heart, but he is just too used to being evil. He wants to do good but he doesn't know how. He reminds me of Lex in Season 1&2.

It is ironic, really. In Season 1, 2 and 3 Lionel was the bad guy and Lex was someone who wanted to be good, but didn't know how. Now Lionel is in Lex's place and Lex is the one who is completely evil.

[jaime,oburg]

He's a Luthor! Don't fall for it. Always a selfish motive that lies beneath. Wait for it. Long live the MB!;) :p

[tjpw fanatic]

see now jaime,oburg I sort of feel that way, but then there's a part of me who is falling for it. Maybe I'm just gullable and he isnt really good? I don't know, but if he is just acting he's doing a pretty darn good job at it. Better than any other lie he's had before IMO.

[Miss L]

Originally posted by jaime,oburg
He's a Luthor! Don't fall for it. Always a selfish motive that lies beneath. Wait for it. Long live the MB!;) :p


Originally posted by tjpw fanatic
see now jaime,oburg I sort of feel that way, but then there's a part of me who is falling for it. Maybe I'm just gullable and he isnt really good? I don't know, but if he is just acting he's doing a pretty darn good job at it. Better than any other lie he's had before IMO.

Yup. My mental jury's still out. I can feel myself being seduced into believing he really has changed, but the MB on my other shoulder tells me not to be fooled and he has his own agenda. Perhaps it's Martha, or using Clark to bring Lex down, or something else that hasn't been quite revealed yet. I sort of think he's good, but I just can't bring myself to commit to that.

[bobser]

The MB is such a great actor, in reality and on the show (tricking characters with his theatrics). I'd like to say he's all good now, but come on...it's the MB. It could still just be an elaborate ruse he's playing on all of us.

[sari_chem]

I think Lionel's personality change is largely due to the change in Lex.

Lionel has always wanted Lex to be a heartless bada$$. This the type of "son he's always wanted."

I think now, lionel realizes that he raised Lex to be more than that. He knows that Lex will be more than a ruthless businessman. He has actually managed to raise a supervillain. Someone far worse than Lionel could have ever imagined. I think Lionel is fearful of what Lex will inevitably become, and knows that Clark is the only one who will be able to stop Lex, or at least, be the only one who will be well-matched against Lex. It was Lionel who unleashed this plague (ie Lex) on the world.

It sort of goes back to Naman and Sageeth, where Lex says to Clark that Naman would be a formidable enemy, and that someone would need to keep him in check.

Only Lionel's point of view would be the opposite of Lex's, where it would be Naman who keeps Sageeth in Check.

[CB2006]

I voted for Lionel will always be the MB. Goodness does not become him. I agree that there has to be some motive for this change, one that will benefit him in the end. Maybe the next time Jor-el channels Lionel, he will discover this.

[Sweetie]

I'm sure Lionel enjoys the fact that he knows about Clark and his son is still searching.He needs to be on the good side for his best interests for now...He probably thought of a plan to ask something in return from Clark...

But,Lex suspects him for years...He will threat his father and he will surely kill him because Lionel will never tell him for anything.

[LuthorRequiem2]

sari chem:
Post #37 of 39

"I think Lionel's personality change is largely due to the change in Lex.

Lionel has always wanted Lex to be a heartless bada$$. This the type of "son he's always wanted."

I think now, lionel realizes that he raised Lex to be more than that. He knows that Lex will be more than a ruthless businessman. He has actually managed to raise a supervillain. Someone far worse than Lionel could have ever imagined. I think Lionel is fearful of what Lex will inevitably become, and knows that Clark is the only one who will be able to stop Lex, or at least, be the only one who will be well-matched against Lex. It was Lionel who unleashed this plague (ie Lex) on the world.

It sort of goes back to Naman and Sageeth, where Lex says to Clark that Naman would be a formidable enemy, and that someone would need to keep him in check.

Only Lionel's point of view would be the opposite of Lex's, where it would be Naman who keeps Sageeth in Check."

I agree. Lionel raised Lex to not take crap from anybody and to be ruthless and heartless in his business endeavors. But what he didn't realize was that Lex would become so much worse, a threat to all mankind. He sees now a worse reflection of himself in the mirror, and thinks, "Is THAT the type of person I was for so long? The type of person I taught my son to be? Good God! I gotta stop him from becoming that evil!"