Lana doesn't owe Clark anything...

[SnarkMasterJ]

Maybe her entire existence. Now I'm really sorry he ever saved your ungrateful @$$.

[muffinpeddler]

Exactly! I sat screaming at the TV, "You would be dead 20 times over!"

[SmallvilleMan]

Yep, apparently that has been forgotten. Along with many other things.

[KEakaCK]

I totally agree...She's such a annoying spazz now, drives me nuts.
I found myself doing something I've never done before watching a new episode of Smallville tonight...Every time Lana scene came on, I switched to another channel. Turned to ESPN to watch the NFL draft special.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I hate her. I didn't want to, I was content to just dislike her. But no. She had to make me hate her.

Self-centered tripe.

[alienkinfolk]

come on don't you know Lana is a what have you done for me lately type of girl...

[afro_maestro]

lol that is EXACTLY what she is.

[kar4764]

I kept saying out loud "Lana, you're a b****. What a b****. YOU'RE A B****!!"

Shall I say it again? ;)

[jack1487]

She sure has a short memory after all the times that he saved her. Also from what I remenber wasn't she the one that suggested that they take a break from each other. She must be losing it or Lex is rubbing off on her?

Jack :eek:

[BadToad]

Yes, this line from a woman that just 3 weeks ago was saved from an injection to the throat by this guy, and then got him killed due to her stupidity (he survived, no thanks to her).

But nah, she doesn't owe him anything. Apparently breaking up with Lana negates any positive thing you've ever done for her, ever.

[deanyouk]

See now, I'm kinda wishing she stayed dead in 100th lolol

[superman_115]

I have posted many threads about how much I can't stand Lana and explained about the writer's and how they have made her into a waste of time, episodes, and more character development for other character's in the show.

However, we have the people who defended her now hating her. How typical.

Anyway, I can't wait to see Lana crash and burn and then beg Clark for forgiveness of her selfish ways then Clark looks at her and tells her to kiss a$$ and book it out of Smallville.

[dirtysanchez]

Lana is the worst character ever written....

[abarsami]

I can't believe what a bloody mess Lana has become... I mean c'mon. She went from the princess to the big bad witch of the west.

To think there was a time when she was cool. Now she's just a ... well you know.

[vikingjedi]

Its pretty obvious what they're doing. IMO they're making Lana "evil" to push Clark down the right path. Once he realizes that he'll have to set things right and tell her the truth.

Clark's failure to tell Lana the truth is the reason they're in this mess.

[mobiusklein]

Sorry, no. The reason Lana is "evil" is because she's CHOOSING to be evil. I think she basically crossed herself off the "voluntarily told" list.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I totally agree.

I would never expect to be excused from bad behavior because of a break-up. Believe me, Clark's lying wasn't the only thing wrong with their relationship. It had to end sooner or later. And Lana had the choice of taking the break-up in stride, realizing that maybe she doesn't need a boyfriend ALL THE TIME. She opted out and moved in on Clark's ex-best friend instead.

[TheSupaMan]

To me, it's not even about the Lexana angle anymore. It's the way the Lana character has been potrayed as ungrateful. And that it a prime example

[Keldaz]

And when she said: I dont need you!

HANG ON A MINUTE GIRL!!!

He saved you and your pittyful boyfriend just a couple of hours B4.

I just want him to tell Lana everything, show every time he rescued her and then go back in time. Wouldnt that feel good? !!!!

[myankskent]

Originally posted by mobiusklein
Sorry, no. The reason Lana is "evil" is because she's CHOOSING to be evil. I think she basically crossed herself off the "voluntarily told" list.

Let's get one thing straight, Lana is not evil. She is with an evil guy, but she is not evil herself. Until I see her plotting to destroy the world or conducting experiments on people and hurting them to get answers that she wants, she is anything but evil. So let's stop the insanity that Lana is evil.

[FiveForFighting09]

personally.....i think she is evil for breaking Clark's heart...........yep pure evil.....then she goes with Clark's ex-best friend!!!...........evil.....but it would be pretty funny to see Lana plotting to destroy the world or something like that ....

[cmm]

Originally posted by dirtysanchez
Lana is the worst character ever written....

Truer words have never been spoken. As a character she is a nightmare of inconsistency.

[aqua]

Do they want people to dislike Lana? Because it's working.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

What are TPTB doing with Lana!!!! Hopefully they are doing something with her cause this is a bunch of marlarky (i think that it is spelled wrong, oh well)

[last man of krypton]

How the last scene should've gone

Lana: I don't need you to protect me. <walks off>
<Clark picks up phone and dials>
Clark: Belle Reve? Yeah, you remember all those guys that were stalking or trying to kill Lana? Could I speak to a couple of them?I'd like to tell them her new address. (Let's see how long she lasts without needing me...)

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by last man of krypton
How the last scene should've gone

Lana: I don't need you to protect me. <walks off>
<Clark picks up phone and dials>
Clark: Belle Reve? Yeah, you remember all those guys that were stalking or trying to kill Lana? Could I speak to a couple of them?I'd like to tell them her new address. (Let's see how long she lasts without needing me...)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was good.


Originally posted by vikingjedi
Its pretty obvious what they're doing. IMO they're making Lana "evil" to push Clark down the right path. Once he realizes that he'll have to set things right and tell her the truth.

Clark's failure to tell Lana the truth is the reason they're in this mess.

Clark telling her got her killed not because he told her but due to the company she keeps (Lex). He also almost got her (and many others) killed in Mortal. How creepy would it be for me if I had a girlfriend who hung around with a guy who betrayed me as a best friend and got into a fist fight with? I wouldn't want to have anything to do with her. I think Clark should have put it as..."it's either Lex or me".

Actually at that ending scene, I was immediately reminded of a line that Jason Teague said last year that Clark should have said: "You don't realize how much I've been protecting you" (something like that).

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by FiveForFighting09
personally.....i think she is evil for breaking Clark's heart...........yep pure evil.....then she goes with Clark's ex-best friend!!!...........evil.....but it would be pretty funny to see Lana plotting to destroy the world or something like that ....

She broke his heart? When was this, because I must have been asleep that night. He broke up with her. He told her he didn't love her.

[netlynn]

i'm with ccg... I must have slept that night because I remember it the same way...he broke up with her.

[ko8e]

i feel bad for clark, he deserves so much from lana but because she is such a *****, she overlooks everything clark has done for her. i hate it when lana starts spazzing at clark when it clearly not his fault. i hate lana more and more as the season passes

[Miss L]

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
She broke his heart? When was this, because I must have been asleep that night. He broke up with her. He told her he didn't love her.

But he didn't mean it when he said he didn't love her. He had reasons for breaking it off--and trying to protect her from Lex was actually part of his reason. So his heart was still broken and she ended up getting closer to Lex anyway.


Originally posted by xrayvision
Actually at that ending scene, I was immediately reminded of a line that Jason Teague said last year that Clark should have said: "You don't realize how much I've been protecting you" (something like that).

I so agree. I would have loved to have seen that!


originally posted by myankskent
Let's get one thing straight, Lana is not evil. She is with an evil guy, but she is not evil herself. Until I see her plotting to destroy the world or conducting experiments on people and hurting them to get answers that she wants, she is anything but evil. So let's stop the insanity that Lana is evil.

ITA she's not evil. Lana has always been written as pretty self-absorbed. It's part of who Lana is. And after a break-up, there is usually a period of dislike for the person who broke up with you, especially if you really did love them and really did want it to work. And now to add to her feelings of anger at Clark and her natural self-absorb-ness (man, what is the correct word for that?) she is being influenced by the master manipulator that is Lex. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

True, I was all for Clana, but I took Lana with all her flaws. At least in that way she's been written fairly consistently. I do believe they waited too long to develop her character and that hurt her, and they wrote Clana poorly. Eh, water under the bridge. If her turning to Lex and taking on his evil tint makes her interesting, then...Yay!

JMHO

[TalkinMac]

Well he is certainly not in any position to tell her his little secret.
Lana isnt evil she is just naive and full of herself.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by aqua
Do they want people to dislike Lana? Because it's working.
You know, I was wondering the same thing when I was watching. How could anyone like this person? Are TPTB deliberately making her a totally unsympathetic character? I usually take a neutral stance on Lana, but in this episode, I did not like her at all. Not the attitude, not the behavior. I think bringing Lex the luxurious robe so his affluent sensibilities wouldn't have to put up with lowlife hospital garb just pushed it over the edge for me.

And I agree -- she owe's Clark just about everything. I don't even want to list the times he's pulled her rear end out of the fire.

[All about Clark]

She should remember about 50% of the times he saved her life, so I agree, she owe's Clark just about everything.

I guess TPTB feel that we need to dislike Lana to not wish him with her. As an ex-Clana fan, I'm totally over it and soon Clark will be too. Otherwise, we wouldn't want him to move on.

Lana never did like things not going her way, and she's showing Clark just that. She's definitely becoming bitter.

[Watching Smallville]

Bitter. Good word.

[xrayvision]

I just hope he gives her much worse treatment when it's all over than he gave Pete at the end of Velocity. Heck, maybe Chloe will return the favor and have her committed to Belle Reve.

[commencement_rox]

MOD EDIT: Not an acceptable post - Al

[xrayvision]

I'm sorry, but I don't think rape would ever be funny in this show (only in real life if it happens to a murderer/rapist who deserves it).

[cotton candy girl]

Rape is never funny, and it should never be joked about.

[Wildfire]

Originally posted by commencement_rox
i hope they could change clarks destiny and have him rape her then push her in front of a car. that would be funny. lana is so annoying

See you got it all wrong in her future psycho phase lana will try to rape Clark and attpemt to destory Lois and Clark marriage. To no avail.

Likewise rape is never funny man woman or child.

[TheSupaMan]

Actually at that ending scene, I was immediately reminded of a line that Jason Teague said last year that Clark should have said: "You don't realize how much I've been protecting you" (something like that). [/B]

Yeah, if he'd said that, my god, that one line would've put a bit of joy of hope for Clark in my mind.

[sari_chem]

Lana does owe Clark her life (as does everyone else in the show).

But I think Lana meant she owes him nothing in the context of their romantic relationship. He broke up with her in a harsh way, completely crushing her heart (and crushing his own heart in the process). So she can date whoever she wants, and she doesn't have to tell Clark about her new boyfriend, or get his approval. She doesn't owe him the truth in that context. It's like this with any relationship. If you and your boyfriend/girlfriend break up , you're not obliged to tell him/her whether or not you're dating someone else.

[umm]

Originally posted by sari_chem
Lana does owe Clark her life (as does everyone else in the show).

But I think Lana meant she owes him nothing in the context of their romantic relationship. He broke up with her in a harsh way, completely crushing her heart (and crushing his own heart in the process). So she can date whoever she wants, and she doesn't have to tell Clark about her new boyfriend, or get his approval. She doesn't owe him the truth in that context. It's like this with any relationship. If you and your boyfriend/girlfriend break up , you're not obliged to tell him/her whether or not you're dating someone else.

As much as I dislike the girl, I have to agree with you on this one, Lana doesn´t owe Clark anything, at least where their former relationship is concerned!
They have broken up, and she is trying to move on with her life! That's her right, and no matter what kind of person she chooses, that's her thing and hers alone!

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by sari_chem
Lana does owe Clark her life (as does everyone else in the show).

But I think Lana meant she owes him nothing in the context of their romantic relationship. He broke up with her in a harsh way, completely crushing her heart (and crushing his own heart in the process). So she can date whoever she wants, and she doesn't have to tell Clark about her new boyfriend, or get his approval. She doesn't owe him the truth in that context. It's like this with any relationship. If you and your boyfriend/girlfriend break up , you're not obliged to tell him/her whether or not you're dating someone else.

You're right, sari. I don't think that could have been explained any better.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
You're right, sari. I don't think that could have been explained any better.

I said this elsewhere, but as far as Clark is concerned, I think Lana has got free reign to do whatever she wants, with Lex or anybody else... right up to the point where she is actively plotting to take Clark down right along side Lex. Up to that point, I'll cut her some slack.

[captaincharisma]

I dont see what the problem is, Clark broke up with her. She was not mean to him, she just got on with her life and found someone else. End.

[netlynn]

I'd rather see Lana with anyone else other than Lex, even Shelby! IMO that just spoils her character!

[SOTK]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Maybe her entire existence. Now I'm really sorry he ever saved your ungrateful @$$.

I quite agree. Lana is so stupid. She has to know at some level how many times Clark saved her butt.

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by umm
As much as I dislike the girl, I have to agree with you on this one, Lana doesn´t owe Clark anything, at least where their former relationship is concerned!
They have broken up, and she is trying to move on with her life! That's her right, and no matter what kind of person she chooses, that's her thing and hers alone!


Word.

[netlynn]

Originally posted by SOTK
Lana is so stupid. She has to know at some level how many times Clark saved her butt.

I disagree! TPTB are the ones who wrote her character not KK herself. Besides if we add up everyone CK has saved...Lex would probably at the top of the list

[Dangerous George]

vikingjedi,

I disagree. it is the writing that is the reason we're in this mess - lol

"Clark's failure to tell Lana the truth is the reason they're in this mess."


peace

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
Word.

Ah, the "Word" post from CCG. Can't tell you how I look forward to those. Words are flying fast and furious, but when CCG arrives with "Word", you might as well consider the debate closed. :)

[cmm]

Originally posted by Dangerous George
vikingjedi,

I disagree. it is the writing that is the reason we're in this mess - lol

"Clark's failure to tell Lana the truth is the reason they're in this mess."


peace


He told her once she went to lex and and ended up dead. In his mind telling her would result in the same thing. Only this time he wouldn't be able to save her.

[xrayvision]

Well, I have a strong feeling that not only did Jonathan die to save Lana, but Lionel will also die. If what has been suggested that Lionel shows her the video (dvd) and/or Lex's Clark obsession room does happen, then Lionel will most likely die in exchange for Lana since I don't think they will have both of them knowing the secret at once.

If this does happen, I think Clark will for a while be repulsed by Lana after going back to stop Lana's death costed Jonathan's life for no reason after she ran to Lex and will need another to die for her.

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Ah, the "Word" post from CCG. Can't tell you how I look forward to those. Words are flying fast and furious, but when CCG arrives with "Word", you might as well consider the debate closed. :)


Thanks.....I think. :p :)

Yeah, sometimes I have the inclination to just be succinct, and somtimes I can't say it any better than the poster. But on occasion, I am inclined to write longwinded posts...it all depends. :)

[Zathraz]

Lana seems to have a schizophrenic brain.

From episode to episode they seem have no problem changing what she thinks or knows.

I’m not sure if it’s bad writing or just a problem with the creators letting the script writers go where ever they want in each episode they write.

On that note … Jeez Lana, could you at least be semi grateful for the X amount of times that she knows of that Clark has saved her and try not to snipe defensively at the man because she feels guilty that she is now with his Friend/Rival/Enemy.

[All about Clark]

Lana owes Clark her life, but her choices, good or bad, are her own and doesn't owe for that.

That being said, Lana treated Clark terribly in the loft scene and even though she is bitter and upset, she shouldn't have been so mean to him.

I was especially upset with her hero comment, trying to make him feel bad. Trying to make herself look like the good guy by playing the high road and that he doesn't give her honesty like she's giving him.

It's her life to choose Lex, but her putting salt in the wound is uncalled for after all the times he's saved her.

[Watching Smallville]

I think if this were me, and my Ex started to date someone who had been a good friend of mine at one time -- I would want him to tell me. I think he would owe it to me, out of respect, so that I don't get ambushed by someone else telling me or by running into them. Especially if I could expect to see them at some point, if they're always around. I just don't agree with that statement in any form. Lex is right -- Clark deserved the respect of being told.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I think if this were me, and my Ex started to date someone who had been a good friend of mine at one time -- I would want him to tell me. I think he would owe it to me, out of respect, so that I don't get ambushed by someone else telling me or by running into them. I just don't agree with that statement in any form. Lex is right -- Clark deserved the respect of being told.

Yeah, I agree with this. I would also say that this is just another layer in Lex's manipulation as well. After Reckoning, he learned from his ham-fisted mistakes in dealing with Lana and has been brilliantly subtle since then. Like at the end of Hypnotic when he starts to defend Clark and Lana just stops him. He's putting himself on the moral high-ground in her eyes, over Clark of all people who is virtually unimpeachable. He's done that a couple of times since then and this was another good example. He was probably thinking that he wished he could be a fly on the wall when she told him, just to see his face, but to her he just seems like the magnanimous gentile that he's trying to portray. All of that has been nicely written - subtle but twisted at the same time.

[kkasll]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Maybe her entire existence. Now I'm really sorry he ever saved your ungrateful @$$.

its true what you are saying but only if she knew about all of it,
all the times he saved her .
i guess she does owe him a lot ,but because she doesn't know
she doesn't feel like she owes him anything

on the other hand clak always was there for her when she needed him

[hotkk]

I just want to put one thing straight. Lana did go to tell Clark that she was dating Lex. Yes Clark already knew because she waited a bit too long, but she didn't know that he knew. She did the right thing (it took her a while, but she still did).

Then, Clark told her not to get involve with Lex. But Clark has no reason to say that, no matter how many times he saved Lana. Because he broke with her, she can do whatever she wants and he has nothing to say. That's why she was mad and rightfully so.

Do not forget that we can assume that their are not friend anymore since Clark has been really harsh (and don't tell me CK was protecting her... I know, I watch the show. But Lana doesn't know). So it was not a good time for Clark to tell her what to do.

I know most people who watch the show love Clark and Superman (I DO too!). But CK is far from flawless in this particular situation!

Peace :)

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Lana owes Clark her life, but her choices, good or bad, are her own and doesn't owe for that.

That being said, Lana treated Clark terribly in the loft scene and even though she is bitter and upset, she shouldn't have been so mean to him.



So Lois can treat Clark like dirt, but when Lana gets upset with him, she's being too mean? Lois is often mean/ rude to Clark, but only Lana gets criticized by some?


Originally posted by hotkk
I just want to put one thing straight. Lana did go to tell Clark that she was dating Lex. Yes Clark already knew because she waited a bit too long, but she didn't know that he knew. She did the right thing (it took her a while, but she still did).

Then, Clark told her not to get involve with Lex. But Clark has no reason to say that, no matter how many times he saved Lana. Because he broke with her, she can do whatever she wants and he has nothing to say. That's why she was mad and rightfully so.

Do not forget that we can assume that their are not friend anymore since Clark has been really harsh (and don't tell me CK was protecting her... I know, I watch the show. But Lana doesn't know). So it was not a good time for Clark to tell her what to do.

I know most people who watch the show love Clark and Superman (I DO too!). But CK is far from flawless in this particular situation!

Peace :)


I'll say word again. So people are upset that Lana didn't make the right decision until the end of the episode? I mean, does she get any credit for actually doing the righ thing at all? Please. Which character on this show is perfect? Which one always makes the right decision at the right time? I think Lana gets picked on unfairly sometimes. :rolleyes:

[Watching Smallville]

I think people are hard on Lana because she seems to expect from other people what she doesn't give herself. She lectures Clark about honesty when she's not honest with him. And yes, Clark was hard on Lana, but she set herself up. When he said his feelings had changed, she shouldn't have told him to look her in the eye. It turned the conversation into a confrontation. It didn't have to be that way.

I think if Lana hadn't acted like telling Clark was her idea, instead of Lex's, people wouldn't be as upset. Again, it was a dishonest thing to do, and then she gives him a lecture about honesty.

I don't blame her for being hurt and angry. I would be, too. Maybe I'd be worse. I sympathize with Lana. But it doesn't mean I can't recognize that she's not handling things as well as she could.

[cotton candy girl]

I think Lana told Clark to look her in the eye because she didn't believe him. People sometimes say that when they think someone's lying to them. And he STILL lied to her, saying he doesn't love her. Anyway, I don't fault her for wanting him to look her in the eye.

And I don't really care if Lex prodded her to tell Clark she's dating him; she told him. I don't remember exactly what she said to him, but she doesn't have to say "Lex told me to tell you". But that's just mho. :)

[All about Clark]

It wasn't that she should have said "Lex told me to tell you", it was holyer than thou attitude, like she was better than him, treating him like the bad guy. And the hero line was really upsetting, because she knows Clark likes to run around helping people and to say that was an insult especially since being the hero has saved her life dozens of times.

Lois has been mean to Clark in the past, and I don't forgive her for that, however, as she spends time with him she has softened up a little, granted she needs to soften up some more.

But Clark knows Lana far better than Lois and Lana knows he tries to do the right thing. I just wanted Lana to cut him some slack for being there for her the past 5 years, which Lois can't relate to.

[cotton candy girl]

Lana does know Clark better than Lois does, and he has hurt her far worse than he has ever hurt Lois. He has been derelict in not telling her his secret, imo. He's still so immature, even in the way he broke up with her. Why didn't he just tell her that he still loves her, but they can't be in a relationship? Why lie to her? She was hurt. What does she owe Clark now, as far as leading her everyday life goes? She's thanked him for saving her life. And no doubt when Chloe wasn't in on the secret, she was hard on Clark as well.

[Watching Smallville]

You can't break up with someone by saying, "I still love you." It just doesn't work.

Clark should have broken up w/ Lana or told her his secret in Mortal, as far as I'm concerned. Hidden was his absolute last chance to be upstanding on the issue, and he messed up. No question. That's why it ended the way it did.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
You can't break up with someone by saying, "I still love you." It just doesn't work.

Clark should have broken up w/ Lana or told her his secret in Mortal, as far as I'm concerned. Hidden was his absolute last chance to be upstanding on the issue, and he messed up. No question. That's why it ended the way it did.

I'm pretty hard on Clark overall for not sharing his secret earlier, but I tend to give him a little slack for Hidden and its aftermath. The revelation that someone was going to die because of the choices he had made was pretty devastating. I mean, he didn't even tell his parents that part of it so he was definitely struggling with the whole issue, and that kind of emotional turmoil and future uncertainty was probably not the best foundation for that kind of life-changing revelation. After things settled down, it seemed natural that he would tell her when he did... and then it all went to hell. He had his reasons for not telling her after Reckoning, and he spelled them out pretty clearly to Chloe, but I still didn't (and don't) like it. But whatever, it's not MY secret...

[myankskent]

I'm going to have to respond to the fact that people think that Lana lies and is deceitful, because after watching some episodes over again, I don't view Lana as that kind of person. She may show some flashes of it, but it's not as blatant as everyone makes it out to be, at least in my opinion. I'll start with Commencement and work my way forward to Reckoning. Lana approached Clark and told him that she did something really terrible and that she couldn't leave with Clark's parents. Again, Lana did not tell Clark the truth about what she did, but she did mention something. She then hands Clark the stone with blood on it and tells Clark that the stone was meant for him, how she knows is ridiculous and is a major plothole, but that's what happened. From Clark's standpoint, he must have known at that point that a) that was what JorEl was talking about when he told Clark that human blood has stained one of the elements, and b) that Lana was responsible for it because she had the element in her possession. So the idea that Clark has no idea about Jason's mother isn't necessarily true because he must know that Lana had a part in the blood being on the stone. Alright, so now we get to arrival where Lana has not told Clark about Jason's mother and has not told Clark about the fact that Lex covered the murder up for her. At the end of Arrival, she tells him that she saw a spaceship in the crater. At the start of Mortal, Lana tells Clark that there were so many things that she hasn't told Clark and Clark promptly tells her that what both of them have done is in the past now. So I really don't know how to jump all over Lana, at this point, about not telling Clark about Jason's mom or the fact that Lex covered it up. To go off topic for a minute, the problem that I have with Clark in Mortal is that he has sex with Lana without telling her that he is an alien. He didn't have powers at that point, he didn't think that he was going to get his powers back so there is absolutely no reason not to tell Lana about it before they had sex. And then, compounding that issue, once Clark gets his powers back, he immediately pulls away from Lana. Now I can't be as brutal about this as the girls/women on this board because I'm a guy, but my guess is most girls out there would be furious if their boyfriend has sex with them all of the time for probably around 3 months, and then all of a sudden is afraid to touch them again. It took Lana until Fanatic to finally push the issue with Clark, and he turns it around on her with her fascination with astronomy, and getting back on topic, Lana blatantly deflects what Clark says, and without actually saying anything, lies about what she really is doing with the books. Then at the end of Fanatic, Lana comes clean about researching the meteor shower and shares her findings with Clark. Again, Lana told lies, but in time, she owned up to it.

The last part of this post is about Lex and Lana and how it relates to Clark. I do think that Lana has lied about her affiliation with Lex, especially concerning the spaceship, but I want to take this from the Clark angle. Clark must know that Lana was still very close to Lex during the first half of season 5. Lana might have been lying to Clark about it, but Clark saw Lana with Lex in Splinter, of course the images that he saw were incorrect but she still went to Lex for help when Clark went insane, he also saw Lana with Lex in Lockdown, particularly when he saw them in the hospital room. I mean Clark saw Lana hugging Lex for goodness sakes, doesn't that tell him something? So what I don't get is how Clark proposes to Lana in Reckoning knowing full well that Lana still had a tight relationship with Lex from Splinter and most recently in Lockdown? Furthermore, being that is the case, how does Clark not tell Lana in Reckoning about Lex. I mean, Clark must know something is up between them, not romantically, but the fact that Lana was still seen with Lex during a year where Clark and Lex were enemies should've raised a red flag in Clark's head before he was quick to propose to her without setting her straight about Lex. And I'll be clear about this, I think it is completely Lana's fault that she is still hanging around Lex in season 5 and I don't fault anyone but her, except for Lex because he knew how to reel her in. I know this is a long post with a lot of issues so feel free to rip it apart.

[Miss L]

I agree with what you said about Lana mostly coming clean with Clark. She even wanted to talk about the spaceship and he wouldn't talk about it with her. If he'd talked about the spaceship with her, telling her might have had some context--especially when she said (paraphrasing), "What if, in the first meteor shower, there was a ship and whoever came in it has been with us all this time..." When he didn't say anything at that point, I just wanted him to break up with her and move on.


I mean, Clark must know something is up between them, not romantically, but the fact that Lana was still seen with Lex during a year where Clark and Lex were enemies should've raised a red flag in Clark's head before he was quick to propose to her without setting her straight about Lex. And I'll be clear about this, I think it is completely Lana's fault that she is still hanging around Lex in season 5 and I don't fault anyone but her, except for Lex because he knew how to reel her in.

This is where I think Clark just hatched the proposal scheme and decided to tell her because--as he said--he felt her slipping away. It wasn't that he trusted her at that point, he just didn't want to lose her--or lose her to Lex. His act of desperation shows just how much he realized that Lana and Lex were getting kind of tight. I don't think it occured to him to tell her about Lex, he just wanted to not lose her. Then, when the whole debacle that was Reckoning happened, he must have realized inwardly not only that Lana knowing his secret would put her in danger because of Lex, but also that he really couldn't trust her with the secret. At least that's where my head's at with that whole situation now. (Could change)

So, one the one hand, she doesn't owe him anything beyond telling him that, yes, she's with Lex now. She has been more honest with Clark than he has been with her. And even though down deep inside she must know how many times over she owes her life to Clark, that info hasn't made it to the conscious part of her brain yet. Lana is self-centered. It's who she is. Like Clark, I don't think she really reasons things out. I think they're both pretty reactive. I hope that changes soon, especially with Clark. Lex ponders over things...plots, ruminates, plans. He really is the antithesis of Clark. ...Maybe that will have a positive effect on Lana.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by jwoodie
I'm pretty hard on Clark overall for not sharing his secret earlier, but I tend to give him a little slack for Hidden and its aftermath. The revelation that someone was going to die because of the choices he had made was pretty devastating. I mean, he didn't even tell his parents that part of it so he was definitely struggling with the whole issue, and that kind of emotional turmoil and future uncertainty was probably not the best foundation for that kind of life-changing revelation. After things settled down, it seemed natural that he would tell her when he did... and then it all went to hell. He had his reasons for not telling her after Reckoning, and he spelled them out pretty clearly to Chloe, but I still didn't (and don't) like it. But whatever, it's not MY secret...
I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that. :\

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Miss L
This is where I think Clark just hatched the proposal scheme and decided to tell her because--as he said--he felt her slipping away. It wasn't that he trusted her at that point, he just didn't want to lose her--or lose her to Lex. His act of desperation shows just how much he realized that Lana and Lex were getting kind of tight. I don't think it occured to him to tell her about Lex, he just wanted to not lose her. Then, when the whole debacle that was Reckoning happened, he must have realized inwardly not only that Lana knowing his secret would put her in danger because of Lex, but also that he really couldn't trust her with the secret. At least that's where my head's at with that whole situation now. (Could change)

I like what you've said here. It's how I view it too.


Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

Actually I do cut him slack for this. He's devastated that he's going to lose someone he loves, and he's suppose to tell Lana his secret then. She would want to know why now are you telling me this, just like she did in Reckoning. If he came clean then he would have to tell he's scared of losing her due to his own actions. No, he kept it from her then just as he kept Jor-el's warning from his parents. I also don't fault him for not telling her in Mortal, because it may have never been an issue if he stayed human.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that. :\

No slack? Not even a little bit? :P

Overall, given their history, he should have told her way before this season. But I look at this like I look at a lot of frustrating Lana things: TPTB have a plan for how things should go, the writers map out that plan from episode to episode, and Clark telling her has not been a part of that plan. So at virtually every point where he *should* have told her, the situation has been such that Clark had a good reason for not telling her. So who's fault is that? I have a hard time getting too frustrated with *Clark* when his character's motivations are decided by commitee. I view a lot of the lame things with Lana in the same way.

So I guess I look at him not telling her this time because of the exchange-your-life-for-someone-you-love deal with Jor-El the same way I view him not telling her when Pete got worked over because he knew Clark's secret. It's always the same basic motivation, even if, overall, it's kinda ridiculous that he hasn't told her up to now.

So that's how I feel, but I won't even try and argue with any of your points because they're all essentially correct (as usual... you'd think just by law of averages you'd make an unsupportable argument every now and then). I even wanted to take issue with you for saying he handled the break-up correctly. But I guess he did, it was just from Lana's perspective that it was so out-of-left-field and utterly devastating. From Clark's perspective, he made his decision not to tell her, period, in Reckoning, and Hypnotic was the natural, inevitable evolution of sticking to his guns. So, I guess you're right again...

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I think people are hard on Lana because she seems to expect from other people what she doesn't give herself. She lectures Clark about honesty when she's not honest with him. And yes, Clark was hard on Lana, but she set herself up. When he said his feelings had changed, she shouldn't have told him to look her in the eye. It turned the conversation into a confrontation. It didn't have to be that way.

I think if Lana hadn't acted like telling Clark was her idea, instead of Lex's, people wouldn't be as upset. Again, it was a dishonest thing to do, and then she gives him a lecture about honesty.

I don't blame her for being hurt and angry. I would be, too. Maybe I'd be worse. I sympathize with Lana. But it doesn't mean I can't recognize that she's not handling things as well as she could.

BINGO! I'd say "WORD" but that's starting to sound so dated to me.......One might as well just start saying "Right On!" or "Groovy". Anyway.....excellent post. This is so on the money.....in fact, when Lana is being so nice to Lex in the hospital ("Bringing you some comfort") I actually feel sorry for her.....until I rememeber everything you mention in your post.....then suddenly......the auto pilot in me switches back to "annoyed" mode.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by jwoodie
No slack? Not even a little bit? :P
Nope. None. ;)

Maybe an eeennnsy weeennsy teeeeensy tiny little itsy bitsy slack for not telling her in Mortal.

Seriously, I thought it was dishonorable. It really bothered me during the eps between Hidden and Hypnotic. Even with what Clark learned from Jor-El, he owed Lana an explanation of why their relationship suddenly changed. Imagine how rejected she must have felt. It was unfair to her. Now that I think about it, no wonder Lana's so po'd.


Originally posted by CK&CK
I actually feel sorry for her.....until I rememeber everything you mention in your post.....then suddenly......the auto pilot in me switches back to "annoyed" mode.
I do exactly the same thing -- I go from feeling sorry for Lana to being annoyed at her! I guess TPTB are doing something right. :lol:

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I give Clark no slack on this point. And I love Clark. But he messed up.

You don't have sex w/ Lana without telling her. Maybe he thinks he's mortal, he should still tell her. No excuses.

Then, for crying out loud, you don't stop having sex with Lana without telling her why. How cruel, just plain cruel and selfish.

Either fish or cut bait. Tell this poor girl, or leave her alone.

So, even though I think Lana's attitude is bitter, I give no passes to Clark. I just don't see the problem as being the break-up in Hypnotic. He handled that correctly, IMO. But what went before -- he gets no slack for that. :\

Bottom line for me on Clark.........

Boy from Planet Krypton lands on earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton loses powers on earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton goes to bed with girl from earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton still doesn't realize that he's not from Planet Earth!

What does this mean? It means that this boy from Planet Krypton is too "stupid" to realize that he's still not from Planet earth.....and as such.....he is still not human......he is a damn Alien for crying out loud! At which point this DUMB EXTRA TERRISTRIAL is still clueless enough to think that it's okay to not tell Lana this little obscure FACT!

This is my only real quibble with Clarkie with regards to Lana.....well, that and so much for the "Old Fashioned Values" that the Kents FAILED to instill in their son........but that's what TPTB get when they try to make a politically correct teenager out of our future "Superman". "Super"?.....what an off/on type of ironic joke that's become to me during this show........Smallville's Clark Kent only has flashes of "Super".......(except for his blatent powers....but that's not what I'm reffering to)......mostly.....he's just "Super" in name only. Very different from the Freshman/Sophmore Clark Kent that sold me on to this show.....if it weren't for Chloe or Lionel.....maybe even Lois......I'd know I would have stopped watching a long time ago.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Nope. None. ;)

Maybe an eeennnsy weeennsy teeeeensy tiny little itsy bitsy slack for not telling her in Mortal.

Seriously, I thought it was dishonorable. And even with what he learned from Jor-El, he owed Lana an explanation of why their relationship suddenly changed. It was unfair to her. Now that I think about it, no wonder Lana's so po'd.

No doubt it was unfair to her, but that's why their relationship can never work. Clark's considerations in life are so much *bigger* than Lana's. Is that Clark's fault? How many times has he said that he didn't ask for this life, but he does the best he can to juggle it all. And being in a relationship of any kind just hasn't been in the cards for him for most of the series. I agree that he should have told her, and I agree that it was dishonorable to have totally changed the rules of their relationship on her without even a hint as to why, but again his considerations are so much *bigger* than just Lana.

I'm usually on Lana's side when it comes to this type of argument, but I think Clark deserves a little slack for that reason alone. I mean he was willing, nay ecstatic, about losing his abilities because it gave him the chance to be with her. That is one conflicted dude, with all he's able to do yet to give it all up to be with her. His desperation from the Pilot on to be normal is kinda heartbreaking, and I definitely feel for him when the juggling act gets to be too much and all of his personal relationships suffer for it, all through no fault of his own. I wouldn't put this situation in that category exactly, but I do feel for the guy.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by CK&CK
Bottom line for me on Clark.........

Boy from Planet Krypton lands on earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton loses powers on earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton goes to bed with girl from earth.

Boy from Planet Krypton still doesn't realize that he's not from Planet Earth!

What does this mean? It means that this boy from Planet Krypton is too "stupid" to realize that he's still not from Planet earth.....and as such.....he is still not human......he is a damn Alien for crying out loud! At which point this DUMB EXTRA TERRISTRIAL is still clueless enough to think that it's okay to not tell Lana this little obscure FACT!
:lol: :lol: :rotfl:


Originally posted by CK&CK
Very different from the Freshman/Sophmore Clark Kent that sold me on to this show.....
Unfortunately, true.


Originally posted by jwoodie
I agree that he should have told her, and I agree that it was dishonorable to have totally changed the rules of their relationship on her without even a hint as to why, but again his considerations are so much *bigger* than just Lana.
Then it's time to break up. Time for the selfless, honorable Clark Kent to step up.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Nope. None. ;)

Imagine how rejected she must have felt. It was unfair to her. Now that I think about it, no wonder Lana's so po'd.
:lol:


I can literally see a different scene that totaly brings Lana's personality into the light. It kind of goes something like this:

Clark- "Sorry, but I don't feel the same anymore."

Lana - "So what was I to you Clark (with a pouty self righteous yet annoyed look....that is also sprinkled with a lot of anger)? Another notch on you're belt?"

Pause a beat as Lana annoyingly bobs her head and over accentuates her lips as she says

"Who the Hell Do You think You Are?"

*not sure if she's whispering or speaking out Loud. With Lana.....you never truly know....until she does it. I think I'd prefer loud.....the whispering really gets on my nerves.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by CK&CK
I can literally see a different scene that totaly brings Lana's personality into the light. It kind of goes something like this:

Clark- "Sorry, but I don't feel the same anymore."

Lana - "So what was I to you Clark (with a pouty self righteous yet annoyed look....that is also sprinkled with a lot of anger)? Another notch on you're belt?"

Pause a beat as Lana annoyingly bobs her head and over accentuates her lips as she says

"Who the Hell Do You think You Are?"

*not sure if she's whispering or speaking out Loud. With Lana.....you never truly know....until she does it. I think I'd prefer loud.....the whispering really gets on my nerves.

Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek, but now we're criticizing her for hypothetical scenes? I think she takes enough flak for the stuff she actually does do...

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Obviously this is tongue-in-cheek, but now we're criticizing her for hypothetical scenes? I think she takes enough flak for the stuff she actually does do...

Yeah, you're probably right.....but you gotta admit.....this hypothetical scene is so totally Lana!

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by hotkk
I just want to put one thing straight. Lana did go to tell Clark that she was dating Lex. Yes Clark already knew because she waited a bit too long, but she didn't know that he knew. She did the right thing (it took her a while, but she still did).

Then, Clark told her not to get involve with Lex. But Clark has no reason to say that, no matter how many times he saved Lana. Because he broke with her, she can do whatever she wants and he has nothing to say. That's why she was mad and rightfully so.

Do not forget that we can assume that their are not friend anymore since Clark has been really harsh (and don't tell me CK was protecting her... I know, I watch the show. But Lana doesn't know). So it was not a good time for Clark to tell her what to do.

I know most people who watch the show love Clark and Superman (I DO too!). But CK is far from flawless in this particular situation!

Peace :)

I don't assume that they were not friends since even after the breakup, he was there to help her with the drug problem and stopped the guy who was going to kill her, only to be temporarily killed himself (which was a very big gesture since nobody did anything to help bring him back to life, unlike everyone else who were stuck with the re-animator needle). He also expressed how he wanted her to be happy after they had what seemed like a candid talk.

[puddinpiester]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Maybe her entire existence. Now I'm really sorry he ever saved your ungrateful @$$.


I also think she owes him an apology or two. She has blamed him for everything wrong that has happened to her in her life except her parents' death and she will probably blame him for that when she finds out about Clark's arrival on earth. I am still perturbed that she blamed Clark for her broken leg in season 3. Lex caused her to get hurt. Yet, she did not blame Lex. Yes, Clark has done things to Lana that have hurt her (emotionally). I think he has always apologized to her when he thinks it may have hurt her. He even apologizes to her when he didn't do anything to be sorry for. She doesn't apologize and rarely says thank-you to Clark. Of course, much of what Clark does for her she is too obtunded to know he did it and gives credit to someone else, namely LEX.

[cmm]

see i'm in the opposite boat. I don't blame clark for not telling lana about him being from another planet before he slept with her because he was human at that point and no longer had his powers. ALso, why is it so important he tells her??? Not everyone has to tell you there deepest darkest secrets for you to be in a relationship. After say a year maybe but as far as we're expected to know they'd only been dating for months. Another thing Clark NEVER tells anyone his secret.

- The kents found out when he crash landed (clark never told him)

-Pete saw him through his actions (clark never told him)

- Lex found out through action although he later forgot (clark never told him)

- Chloe found out after seeing him through action ( clark never told her)

So why should lana be any different? There have been enough instances where she's been in situations of death and she has always woken up to being in clarks arms or having clark in front of her and she not once questions how the heck he manged to get her out? He is always there always helping her and she doens't even suspect? Hell even chloe suspected before she knew and to some extent .

This tell me the truth clark about your secret thing is really getting old for me.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by cmm
So why should lana be any different? There have been enough instances where she's been in situations of death and she has always woken up to being in clarks arms or having clark in front of her and she not once questions how the heck he manged to get her out? He is always there always helping her and she doens't even suspect? Hell even chloe suspected before she knew and to some extent .


Lana has suspected for years, ever since the tornado. She KNOWS he's different somehow, and that it's related to all the secrets in his life, but until Arrival and when she started dabbling in Astronomy I don't think she had any reason to suspect the truth. After that though... it probabliy should have occurred to her. But that's like saying that it should have occurred to Lois that the guy in the glasses looks a hell of a lot like that Superman guy.

The constant harping on secrets bugs me too, frankly, but I put that back on Clark because he was the one that said there would be no more secrets, no more lies. And when he got his powers back and changed the rules of their relationship, he gave her no explanation for why he was hiding things from her again. And after all of their history together, after finally sleeping together, and after his promise not to keep secrets anymore, I think she had a reasonable expectation that he was going to be honest and upfront with her from then on. When he wasn't, I can see that it would bother her. I even give her somewhat of a pass for keeping the spaceship/Lex angle quiet, just given Clark's attitude toward the whole subject, but that's a pretty murky area.

[xrayvision]

I generally agree, but I don't think he should have slept with her unless he told her the secret. The fact is, even though he had no powers at the time, his origins are being from another planet, and his biology and DNA are not human. It was like Lana sleeping with the driver of an uncontrollable car that killed her parents. It wasn't Clark's fault, but with that extra bit of info, I think she would have not wanted anything to do with him. In a way, he tried to have his cake & eat it too. This is the thing that bothered me the most about Mortal/Hidden (plus the fact that Superman is supposed to be pure).

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by cmm
see i'm in the opposite boat. I don't blame clark for not telling lana about him being from another planet before he slept with her because he was human at that point and no longer had his powers. ALso, why is it so important he tells her??? Not everyone has to tell you there deepest darkest secrets for you to be in a relationship
How do I explain?

First of all, he's not human. He should know that. He has lost his powers before, that didn't make him human. It made him temporarily without his powers. So he has precedent.

Second -- he has no idea what could happen. What if Lana gets pregnant? Is her baby half Kryptonian? Doesn't she have a right to know that's a possibility. Maybe that sounds absurd, but having sex with someone is not just fun and games. It's also a responsibility.

Then, when his powers come back, and he decides to alter their relationship in a significant and hurtful way, he offers no explanation. He should have told her.

Sorry to harp on this, but I have two pet peeves this season, and this is one of them. :\


Originally posted by xrayvision
I generally agree, but I don't think he should have slept with her unless he told her the secret. The fact is, even though he had no powers at the time, his origins are being from another planet, and his biology and DNA are not human. It was like Lana sleeping with the driver of an uncontrollable car that killed her parents. It wasn't Clark's fault, but with that extra bit of info, I think she would have not wanted anything to do with him. In a way, he tried to have his cake & eat it too. This is the thing that bothered me the most about Mortal/Hidden (plus the fact that Superman is supposed to be pure).
Yes, very good point. Also about honor.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I generally agree, but I don't think he should have slept with her unless he told her the secret. The fact is, even though he had no powers at the time, his origins are being from another planet, and his biology and DNA are not human.

There's a whole bunch of reasons why they shouldn't have slept together... but apparently there's a huge, silent majority of viewers out there that were (silently) clamoring for TPTB to make it happen since that was what the Everything You've Waited To See tagline told us for weeks on end, but whatever...

But did you see how good she looked when she was tending to his bleeding face? And the candles? And the cool Coldplay song? And for once you really could say, he's only human... :)

[Watching Smallville]

Then say something the next morning.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
First of all, he's not human. He should know that. He has lost his powers before, that didn't make him human. It made him temporarily without his powers. So he has precedent.

I completely agree with this - Clark was never human, he was just fooling himself there to justify his ahem, *enflamed desires*.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Lana has suspected for years, ever since the tornado. She KNOWS he's different somehow, and that it's related to all the secrets in his life, but until Arrival and when she started dabbling in Astronomy I don't think she had any reason to suspect the truth. After that though... it probabliy should have occurred to her. But that's like saying that it should have occurred to Lois that the guy in the glasses looks a hell of a lot like that Superman guy.

Like I said in other posts, there's no way an introductory astronomy course would have made her realize or think that Clark was an alien unless Milton Fine was her professor (which gives those added benefits) and would want to give it away to her so that she distracts Clark while Fine is up to his dirty work (the virus).

I do think that after witnessing the powers of the Kryptonians, that it would possibly explain to her how Clark is able to disappear in a blink of an eye. But a lot has happened (especially when he lost his powers) to make her think he's not an alien.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Then say something the next morning.

What can you do? It just wasn't in the big picture plan for the show, at least not yet. I completely agree that he should have told her then, and after Reckoning, and after Obsession, after Forsaken, whatever. But it doesn't fit the long-term plan, for whatever reasons... I think there's tons of story left to be told where Lana knows his secret and they deal with that. I can see that coming, but they're taking their own sweet time to get there. And having them in an intimate relationship *before* telling her was a wrong choice, by TPTB and by Clark.


Originally posted by xrayvision
Like I said in other posts, there's no way an introductory astronomy course would have made her realize or think that Clark was an alien unless Milton Fine was her professor (which gives those added benefits) and would want to give it away to her so that she distracts Clark while Fine is up to his dirty work (the virus).

I do think that after witnessing the powers of the Kryptonians, that it would possibly explain to her how Clark is able to disappear in a blink of an eye. But a lot has happened (especially when he lost his powers) to make her think he's not an alien.

I go back and forth on the "what *should* Lana know" question. I mean, she's clearly believed since Vortex that he saved her in the tornado, and after Extinction she clearly believed that he was different in some fundamental way, even if he wasn't ready to admit it and talk about it. Then after Crisis, I mean c'mon - she KNOWS, but she just doesn't know the details. So then Arrival comes along, and she makes this leap in logic to studying the first meteor shower and realizes that a ship landed THEN too... but doesn't make the final leap in logic to realize that Clark came into Smallville at the same time, that Supervillain Ken and Barbie had powers that seem to mirror what Clark seems to be able to do, etc... oh well, like I said before, it's just not in the overall plan... yet.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by jwoodie
What can you do? It just wasn't in the big picture plan for the show, at least not yet. I completely agree that he should have told her then, and after Reckoning, and after Obsession, after Forsaken, whatever. But it doesn't fit the long-term plan, for whatever reasons...
My point is -- TPTB have no business creating a long-term plan where this is one of the elements, unless they want to create a Clark Kent character with no honor, no respect for Lana, no principles -- I'm beginning to sound like Hal Jordan. :cool:

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
My point is -- TPTB have no business creating a long-term plan where this is one of the elements, unless they want to create a Clark Kent character with no honor, no respect for Lana, no principles -- I'm beginning to sound like Hal Jordan. :cool:

Yeah, it's a shame really. I see one saving grace in it though. Clark wanted all this time to be human, to have this relationship, but that was not the right choice to make. Even if he didn't *really* choose to lose his powers, he made a bunch of wrong choices - deliberate, willfully, wrong choices. And as I've said before, in the SV universe, there are generally consequences when the characters, of their own free will, make the wrong choices. It's that moral center that is so fundamental to the show that I love about it. And in this case, Clark paid for his mistakes. Big time. I think it's true that the last thing he would want is to hurt Lana, even if he has no idea on how NOT to do that, but hurt her he did, maybe irreparably so. And losing his father is a lesson he will live with forever and will have major repercussions throughout his life.

So, it was wrong, but it was also character building. From Lana's perspective, it's a shame that all this happened with her totally out of the loop. It's unfair to her, and does show a certain level of disrespect for her character, no doubt about it.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Seriously, I thought it was dishonorable. It really bothered me during the eps between Hidden and Hypnotic. Even with what Clark learned from Jor-El, he owed Lana an explanation of why their relationship suddenly changed. Imagine how rejected she must have felt. It was unfair to her. Now that I think about it, no wonder Lana's so po'd.

I understand what you're saying. But I don't fault him because 2 weeks after they get together she runs off to MetU without so much as letting him know prior to moving day. When she did that she changed the relationship. Of course he would back off.

Also, the way she asked in Reckoning why he told her the secret at that time, tells me she would have done the same and that would mean telling her about Jor-el's warning. That would just be too much to lay on her.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I understand what you're saying. But I don't fault him because 2 weeks after they get together she runs off to MetU without so much as letting him know prior to moving day. When she did that she changed the relationship. Of course he would back off.
Actually, it wasn't 2 week. The chronology of the show was a little odd this fall because the first episode, Arrival, actually occurred in June, right after Commencement. So Mortal happened early in the summer when they were rebuilding the town, and Thirst happened at the end of October. I'm not sure when Hidden is supposed to have happened -- probably in September.

So he had months to tell her something that he should have told her in Mortal.

It has nothing to do with anything except respect for Lana. That's the bottom line. As far as I'm concerned, Lana probably didn't tell him she was leaving for Met U because he suddently stopped being interested in her sexually. Without telling her why. I'm not saying I support Lana in that decision, either. It's a little retaliatory -- which I think is in character for her. But I'm guessing the change in their relationship is the reason for the retaliation.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Actually, it wasn't 2 week. The chronology of the show was a little odd this fall because the first episode, Arrival, actually occurred in June, right after Commencement. So Mortal happened early in the summer when they were rebuilding the town, and Thirst happened at the end of October. I'm not sure when Hidden is supposed to have happened -- probably in September.

So he had months to tell her something that he should have told her in Mortal.

It has nothing to do with anything except respect for Lana. That's the bottom line. As far as I'm concerned, Lana probably didn't tell him she was leaving for Met U because he suddently stopped being interested in her sexually. Without telling her why. I'm not saying I support Lana in that decision, either. It's a little retaliatory -- which I think is in character for her. But I'm guessing the change in their relationship is the reason for the retaliation.

Doesn't really matter, but the chronology was interesting to me as well. And Aqua appears to be at the end of the summer, say mid-to-late August, and there appears to be some time passing between Hidden and Aqua, so Hidden could be any time from late June to late July, I'd say. Not that it matters... Follow the bouncing timeline...

And I think it's a stretch to view her leaving for MetU and not telling Clark as retaliatory. I think that's reading a lot into her motives without much evidence to support it - all the while completely discounting the perfectly valid reasoning she gives to Clark. You know, Ockham's Razor and all that...

[Watching Smallville]

I forgot about Aqua. (I guess that means it was kind of a forgettable episode. :rolleyes: ) That was at the end of the summer and beginning of the school year -- so, what -- late September? I like to think Hidden was late in the summer, too, right before Aqua. It gives Clark and Lana more time together. They deserve it.

As for Lana not telling Clark she was going to Met U -- that's a pretty hostile thing to do to your bf. I mean, he walks in on her while she's packing. Remember she walked in on Jason while he was taking off, and she got upset, justifiably so. If I see it as retaliatory, I have a reason. Retaliatory just means getting back at someone because you're po'd. If she wasn't mad, she would have told him. That's my take. :)

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I forgot about Aqua. (I guess that means it was kind of a forgettable episode. :rolleyes: ) That was at the end of the summer and beginning of the school year -- so, what -- late September? I like to think Hidden was late in the summer, too, right before Aqua. It gives Clark and Lana more time together. They deserve it.

As for Lana not telling Clark she was going to Met U -- that's a pretty hostile thing to do to your bf. I mean, he walks in on her while she's packing. Remember she walked in on Jason while he was taking off, and she got upset, justifiably so. If I see it as retaliatory, I have a reason. Retaliatory just means getting back at someone because you're po'd. If she wasn't mad, she would have told him. That's my take. :)

This timeline does seem at least relevant, now that I think about it. And the only thing that sticks out to me is the comment from Chloe in Aqua that Clark still hadn't told Lana, which implied there had been some time passing between her conversation with Clark at the end of Hidden. So if there was some time that passed between Hidden and Aqua, they seemed pretty darn happy with each other on the beach in the beginning of Aqua.

And I'd never presume to deny you your take, heaven forbid. But I'm just sayin' that they seemed pretty good in Aqua, like things were all kosher between them (even if she was annoyed with him for being a total jerk to A.C. without knowing the whole domestic-terrorist angle). So to make the leap that she's so fundamentally dissatisfied with their relationship that she's going to make these life-changing decisions without involving him out of spite... doesn't seem like there's evidence of that. Now, the fact remains that she didn't tell him until the last minute, but then I hold up her perfectly reasonable explanation as exhibit A in the "don't read too much into it" file. So that's my take.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by cmm
see i'm in the opposite boat. I don't blame clark for not telling lana about him being from another planet before he slept with her because he was human at that point and no longer had his powers. ALso, why is it so important he tells her??? Not everyone has to tell you there deepest darkest secrets for you to be in a relationship. After say a year maybe but as far as we're expected to know they'd only been dating for months. Another thing Clark NEVER tells anyone his secret.

- The kents found out when he crash landed (clark never told him)

-Pete saw him through his actions (clark never told him)

- Lex found out through action although he later forgot (clark never told him)

- Chloe found out after seeing him through action ( clark never told her)

So why should lana be any different? There have been enough instances where she's been in situations of death and she has always woken up to being in clarks arms or having clark in front of her and she not once questions how the heck he manged to get her out? He is always there always helping her and she doens't even suspect? Hell even chloe suspected before she knew and to some extent .

This tell me the truth clark about your secret thing is really getting old for me.


I agree...Remember in season 4,when Clark sees Lana running in his barn with a piece of the crystal and blood all over her hands...She asked him to trust her...He did and never barthered her with that again.Why can she do the same with his deepest secret?

I don't own Clark anything...Really???About saving your life from kryptonite freaks,accidents and natural desasters all the time.She certenely has the shortiest memory ever:rolleyes:

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by jwoodie
And I'd never presume to deny you your take, heaven forbid. But I'm just sayin' that they seemed pretty good in Aqua, like things were all kosher between them (even if she was annoyed with him for being a total jerk to A.C. without knowing the whole domestic-terrorist angle). So to make the leap that she's so fundamentally dissatisfied with their relationship that she's going to make these life-changing decisions without involving him out of spite... doesn't seem like there's evidence of that. Now, the fact remains that she didn't tell him until the last minute, but then I hold up her perfectly reasonable explanation as exhibit A in the "don't read too much into it" file. So that's my take.
I'm not saying she decided to go to Met U out of spite. That would be ridiculous. I'm saying she would have discussed it with Clark if they were ok.

Put yourself in Clark's place. You're dating someone seriously. You love that person.

You walk in, and she's packing. I think most people would be upset by that. Just like Lana was when it was Jason. If anything, she would avoid doing that to someone else.

Or, put yourself in Lana's place. You're daing someone. You love that person. You're making a life changing decision that could affect both of you. You say nothing?

I guess we just expect different things from people, so I'll let it go at that.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Put yourself in Clark's place. You're dating someone seriously. You love that person.

You walk in, and she's packing. I think most people would be upset by that. Just like Lana was when it was Jason. If anything, she would avoid doing that to someone else. I guess we just expect different things from people, so I'll let it go at that.

It was lame of her, inconsiderate, plain rude. But retaliatory is very specific, and I don't see that, that's all. I'd have been po'd if I was Clark, far more than just disappointed as he was. But this is semantics, mostly, so I'll leave it at that.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Actually, it wasn't 2 week. The chronology of the show was a little odd this fall because the first episode, Arrival, actually occurred in June, right after Commencement. So Mortal happened early in the summer when they were rebuilding the town, and Thirst happened at the end of October. I'm not sure when Hidden is supposed to have happened -- probably in September.

Actually, in Lockdown Clark states that she left 2 weeks after they got together, which would indicate that Hidden and Aqua were very close together.

Based on the fact that she had to apply (to MetU) and still didn't tell him to packing day means it couldn't have been retalatory. There just wasn't time for that.

Apparently for Lana, learning about the meteor showers in school was more important than their relationship and Clark was visibly unhappy about it and it would affect his decision to tell her.

[hotkk]

Originally posted by All about Clark

Apparently for Lana, learning about the meteor showers in school was more important than their relationship and Clark was visibly unhappy about it and it would affect his decision to tell her.

you got to admit that it must be pretty scary to be one one the only person (for all she knows) to have seen alien and lived to tell it. And she wanted to talk to clark about it and he refused. So she needed to find answer on her own.

[mmvmartha]

What makes her character is that WE LOVE to hate her!!! LOL

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Actually, in Lockdown Clark states that she left 2 weeks after they got together, which would indicate that Hidden and Aqua were very close together.
That timeline just wouldn't make sense, though. We know from Thirst that Lana went to Met U. around Halloween, in October. Chloe was getting ready to move into her dorm in Hidden, before the start of the semester, which would have been late August to early September. We also saw Clark's first day of class in Aqua. Even if we assume Mortal (when Clark and Lana had sex) occured the week before Hidden, that still makes it roughly two months between the time they "got together" and the time Lana went off to Met U.

[auxvis]

Yeah when she keeps playing that "I don't owe Clark anything" and the "Oh Lex saved my life" I just want to strangle her...Granted she doesn't know Clark has saved her life every single time but she does know about a few and not to mention all of the times he has helped her out...

She is so dense it kills me

[hearmewhisper]

lana's just probably on some crack...

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Actually, in Lockdown Clark states that she left 2 weeks after they got together, which would indicate that Hidden and Aqua were very close together.
I know he says that, but I think it's just hyperbole. The timeline doesn't support it. Clark was just miffed.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by jwoodie
What can you do? It just wasn't in the big picture plan for the show, at least not yet. I completely agree that he should have told her then, and after Reckoning, and after Obsession, after Forsaken, whatever. But it doesn't fit the long-term plan, for whatever reasons... I think there's tons of story left to be told where Lana knows his secret and they deal with that. I can see that coming, but they're taking their own sweet time to get there. And having them in an intimate relationship *before* telling her was a wrong choice, by TPTB and by Clark.



I go back and forth on the "what *should* Lana know" question. I mean, she's clearly believed since Vortex that he saved her in the tornado, and after Extinction she clearly believed that he was different in some fundamental way, even if he wasn't ready to admit it and talk about it. Then after Crisis, I mean c'mon - she KNOWS, but she just doesn't know the details. So then Arrival comes along, and she makes this leap in logic to studying the first meteor shower and realizes that a ship landed THEN too... but doesn't make the final leap in logic to realize that Clark came into Smallville at the same time, that Supervillain Ken and Barbie had powers that seem to mirror what Clark seems to be able to do, etc... oh well, like I said before, it's just not in the overall plan... yet.

I agree with this, and just want to note that Lana must have a high-level contact in order to have gotten access to any photos of the 1st meteor shower. If she noticed that there was an object (Clark's ship) that didn't crash like the other ones, someone else, like a professional, would have discovered this a long time ago. If something so questionable would have been found, Lex would have probably found it by now (maybe he's the contact) or more likely someone in the government. Since Milton Fine is able to get through secure areas, he is a very likely source.

All I'm saying is that for someone with such a low interest level in that event to have noticed this, it had to be pointed out by someone else, and I'm very interested to see who that is. I hope they just don't forget about it, since it should be explained, and can also be an interested plot. This is why I think Milton Fine has in some way fed her information (as a professor, probably using a different name). Do you think they will get back to how she found out and have an episode or 2 based on trying to get to the bottom of who helped her out? Landing patterns of meteors and furthermore the specific study of meteor showers is not something that is covered in a freshman astronomy course unless your professor is someone like Milton Fine with an agenda to blow Clark's cover. It really would be the perfect plan, since it would cause so much chaos that Clark wouldn't be able to focus on stopping the virus.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Actually, in Lockdown Clark states that she left 2 weeks after they got together, which would indicate that Hidden and Aqua were very close together.

Based on the fact that she had to apply (to MetU) and still didn't tell him to packing day means it couldn't have been retalatory. There just wasn't time for that.

Apparently for Lana, learning about the meteor showers in school was more important than their relationship and Clark was visibly unhappy about it and it would affect his decision to tell her.

The timeline doesn't make sense to me. From what I've seen, and correct me if I'm wrong, Lana and Clark got together a couple of days after commencement. In Mortal, I guess we are to assume that it takes place a couple of weeks after Arrival. The Kent house was still a mess on the day that Lana and Clark first had sex. In Hidden, the house was all fixed up, so that means that there must have been about a month that passed between Mortal and Hidden. Then in Aqua, Lana was still home and hadn't gone to college yet. So I don't see how Clark didn't have the time to tell her. Plus, going back to my original statement in a long post I made a page or two back, I don't understand how Clark can have sex with Lana without telling her that he was an alien. Pulling away from Lana after he got his powers back is bad enough, but not being honest with her before you get into a physical relationship with Lana is the lowest thing a guy could do. It's like if a guy had HIV or AIDS and had sex with a girl without telling her, that's messed up in my book. Clark can't possibly know if there is something in him that could effect Lana if they were to have sex, even if he is mortal. But aside from that, she deserved to know that she was giving up her virginity to an alien.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I know he says that, but I think it's just hyperbole. The timeline doesn't support it. Clark was just miffed.

I don't believe they had sex in Mortal. So if the sex is around Hidden and Aqua happened right after and Clark went back to school and Met U started a little later, it could work out as stated.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I don't believe they had sex in Mortal. So if the sex is around Hidden and Aqua happened right after and Clark went back to school and Met U started a little later, it could work out as stated.

If you can say that, you're ignoring the obvious. It really bothered me that they added that in the show (not very Superman-like).

[Watching Smallville]

It bothered, me too, xrayvision. It might not have bothered me so much IF HE HAD TOLD HER THE TRUTH... But I digress. :D

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I don't believe they had sex in Mortal. So if the sex is around Hidden and Aqua happened right after and Clark went back to school and Met U started a little later, it could work out as stated.

Why would you say that they didn't have sex in Mortal? They started taking off their clothes and making out at the end of mortal at the Talon. In hidden, they woke up at the Kent farm, implying that they had been having sex for at least a month, I say a month because the Kent house was a mess in Mortal and perfectly fine in Hidden.


Originally posted by Watching Smallville
It bothered, me too, xrayvision. It might not have bothered me so much IF HE HAD TOLD HER THE TRUTH... But I digress. :D

To me, this is an important issue which led to their breakup. The talk about the lack of sex in fanatic brought up by Lana was the beginning of the problems for Clana.

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by xrayvision
It really bothered me that they added that in the show (not very Superman-like).

I have to agree.

[All about Clark]

Just because they were passionately kissing in Mortal doesn't mean they had sex. TPTB wanted you to know they had sex in Hidden, but it was grey in Mortal, and Clark's comments to Lana in Lockdown to me indicated that it didn't happen in Mortal.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Just because they were passionately kissing in Mortal doesn't mean they had sex. TPTB wanted you to know they had sex in Hidden, but it was grey in Mortal, and Clark's comments to Lana in Lockdown to me indicated that it didn't happen in Mortal.

Well what can I say, I have to respectfully disagree. Watching Lana and Clark make out and undress at the talon in an empty room to end an episode implies that they had sex to me. I also think that they wouldn't do it for the first time at the Kent farm. I took it as they were doing it for a while and got up the courage to take a chance and do it at the kent house. However, it didn't work out as planned when Jonathan and martha caught them. As for Lockdown, I think either Clark was angry in that scene and was saying that scarcastically or the writers yet again failed to include a little continuity in this show. The whole second half has been one big mess as far as continuity is concerned.

[GreenRock]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I also don't fault him for not telling her in Mortal, because it may have never been an issue if he stayed human.

With or without powers, mortal or not. Clark is still not human.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by GreenRock
With or without powers, mortal or not. Clark is still not human.

Techniquelly,it's Clark's powers that make him different from us...Physiquelly,he just like us.Don't forget he is been raised on earth and he didn't know anything about his kryptonian heritage. Just like humans,he has the right to be loved and to gived affection too.I think what's Lex is doing is much worst...She's sleeping with him for the wrong raisons and he's using her while she's the most vulnerable...

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Techniquelly,it's Clark's powers that make him different from us...Physiquelly,he just like us.Don't forget he is been raised on earth and he didn't know anything about his kryptonian heritage. Just like humans,he has the right to be loved and to gived affection too.I think what's Lex is doing is much worst...She's sleeping with him for the wrong raisons and he's using her while she's the most vulnerable...

He may look human, but his DNA and physiology are not. He could have had different germs in him (Kryptonian germs) that can make humans who have sexual contact with him sick. Thankfully this is not the case, but he still risked it.

I wonder if Milton Fine and/or Lex will blame the virus on the alien among us (i.e. Clark) and say that everything happened because of him. That would be a very nasty way to get back at him. I don't care or want to know if I'm right (for any of you spoiler fans out there).

I still would rather have them follow up with Fine ending up being Lana's astronomy professor under a different ID and him exposing Clark to her to distract Clark from stopping him.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Techniquelly,it's Clark's powers that make him different from us...Physiquelly,he just like us.Don't forget he is been raised on earth and he didn't know anything about his kryptonian heritage. Just like humans,he has the right to be loved and to gived affection too.I think what's Lex is doing is much worst...She's sleeping with him for the wrong raisons and he's using her while she's the most vulnerable...

This is backwards. Emotionally, Clark is very human. But it is specifically his physical differences that give him his powers. So really, his physical differences are entirely what makes him different.

And Lex and Lana aren't sleeping together, or at least there's no evidence of that.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Come on...She's staying with him in the mansion and she told Clark that they are officially a couple...When a girl says that it's because.They did it;)

I wouldn't even say she's staying with him at the mansion. She seems to have been coming and going a lot. Yeah, she's hanging out there a lot, but she always seems to be "arriving". She even had to convince the security to let her in. I mean, it could be but I don't see the evidence for it.

[Mr.Magic]

Originally posted by jwoodie
... And Lex and Lana aren't sleeping together, or at least there's no evidence of that.

I agree, and I hope Lana gets a pair of diamond earrings once Lex' itch got scratched.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by jwoodie
I wouldn't even say she's staying with him at the mansion. She seems to have been coming and going a lot. Yeah, she's hanging out there a lot, but she always seems to be "arriving". She even had to convince the security to let her in. I mean, it could be but I don't see the evidence for it.

Haha, I liked how you used arriving instead of another word. Hopefully Lex will secretly record them doing the horizontal mambo and send Clark a copy in a package like Lionel did with the DVD in Cyborg. Then Clark could send Lex some Chlark porn that they can shoot in the dorm and show him the way Superman does it.


Originally posted by Mr.Magic
I agree, and I hope Lana gets a pair of diamond earrings once Lex' itch got scratched.

Knowing Lana, she won't even know what they're for. She'll probably say "how sweet" to Lex. If she knew what they meant, she wouldn't be with him now unless she wants to earn hers and then hock them for money.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Haha, I liked how you used arriving instead of another word. Hopefully Lex will secretly record them doing the horizontal mambo and send Clark a copy in a package like Lionel did with the DVD in Cyborg. Then Clark could send Lex some Chlark porn that they can shoot in the dorm and show him the way Superman does it.



Knowing Lana, she won't even know what they're for. She'll probably say "how sweet" to Lex. If she knew what they meant, she wouldn't be with him now.

Somehow, I think we've veered dangerously off-course in this discussion...

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by jwoodie
I wouldn't even say she's staying with him at the mansion. She seems to have been coming and going a lot. Yeah, she's hanging out there a lot, but she always seems to be "arriving". She even had to convince the security to let her in. I mean, it could be but I don't see the evidence for it.


Lana is not there all the time...I think this girl has shopping to do and if I'm not mistaking she has to go to college.Of course,the guards didn't let her in...Lex was there yet but,she manages to get inside anyway...But,a girl doesn't need to live with a guy to have sex with him and now that she told Clark that Lex & herself are officially a couple,I wouldn't be suprise if we see a bedroom's scene very soon...Of course,Lex will record everything:lol:

[xrayvision]

Do you think Lex is giving her helicopter rides from Met U to the mansion? I don't want to even know what sort of rumors there will be going on about her since she's dating Lex and so many people can't stand him.


Originally posted by Sweetie
Lana is not there all the time...I think this girl has shopping to do and if I'm not mistaking she has to go to college.Of course,the guards didn't let her in...Lex was there yet but,she manages to get inside anyway...But,a girl doesn't need to live with a guy to have sex with him and now that she told Clark that Lex & herself are officially a couple,I wouldn't be suprise if we see a bedroom's scene very soon...Of course,Lex will record everything:lol:

How the hell does she pass her courses? When she was in highschool, she used to study and read a lot. But now, it's just going back & forth from Met U to Luthor U. Maybe Lex is paying off her professors. At one time (back in Hothead) she was against such cheating. But now, I guess cheating by being with Lex (she's cheating herself) also results in cheating in academics.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Lana is not there all the time...I think this girl has shopping to do and if I'm not mistaking she has to go to college.Of course,the guards didn't let her in...Lex was there yet but,she manages to get inside anyway...But,a girl doesn't need to live with a guy to have sex with him and now that she told Clark that Lex & herself are officially a couple,I wouldn't be suprise if we see a bedroom's scene very soon...Of course,Lex will record everything:lol:

Yeah, it could happen. I'd be surprised by it, but not much more surprised than by any other "shocking" events on the show. My point was just that there isn't much evidence to that effect that they've slept together - yet - or even that she's staying at the mansion.

I think she's in the process of getting behind Lex whole-heartedly, but it's taking her a while to get over her initial trepidation and she's still going through that to some degree. And that's why it seems unlikely to me that it's happened already.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Do you think Lex is giving her helicopter rides from Met U to the mansion? I don't want to even know what sort of rumors there will be going on about her since she's dating Lex and so many people can't stand him.



How the hell does she pass her courses? When she was in highschool, she used to study and read a lot. But now, it's just going back & forth from Met U to Luthor U.


:lol:

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by GreenRock
With or without powers, mortal or not. Clark is still not human.

No, in Mortal he was human, what he wasn't was born on this Earth. The show definitely indicated he was human, and we should accept that.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by All about Clark
No, in Mortal he was human, what he wasn't was born on this Earth. The show definitely indicated he was human, and we should accept that.

I agree.Does the guy has the right to be loved and to gave affection back?He was raised on earth,has feelings like us.He can't be responsable for what he feels...He loved this girl for years and for once he had the chance to do what everyone else is doing so normally...It shows how human he really is...If he didn't care for her safety,he would done it again when he had his powers back but,he didn't.

[Watching Smallville]

Of course he has the right to be loved. No one is arguing that. If there's anyone lovable and deserving of love on the show, it's Clark. But love involves responsibility -- and that's what Clark failed to realize and failed to act on.


Originally posted by All about Clark
No, in Mortal he was human, what he wasn't was born on this Earth. The show definitely indicated he was human, and we should accept that.
I don't believe the show ever said he was human. It said he was mortal. A butterfly is mortal. It isn't human.

[xrayvision]

He was exactly like a Kryptonian on Krypton (no powers because of their red sun). His biology was still Kryptonian along with his origin. If Clark's DNA structure was said back in those episodes to have been exactly like ours, then he would have temporarily been a human from Krypton, but his DNA structure did not change when he lost his powers. If a doctor would have looked at his blood then, they would have had the same reaction that Helen did when she looked at it in Fever. Luckily for him, they didn't give him a transfusion (hence checking his blood type before doing so) since he flatlined before they had a chance to do this.

EDIT: I don't think the medical report Lana stole had anything on his blood type, DNA, etc. That would require a considerable amount of time to analyze, which they just didn't have.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Sweetie
I agree.Does the guy has the right to be loved and to gave affection back?He was raised on earth,has feelings like us.He can't be responsable for what he feels...He loved this girl for years and for once he had the chance to do what everyone else is doing so normally...It shows how human he really is...If he didn't care for her safety,he would done it again when he had his powers back but,he didn't.

He has a right to be loved, but in order to be loved, he must be honest with the person that he is having sex with. Yes, he didn't have his powers in Mortal, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an alien. Just go back to season 2 when Helen took blood from him. The results indicated that he wasn't human so what is inside of him is definitely Kryptonian.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Of course he has the right to be loved. No one is arguing that. If there's anyone lovable and deserving of love on the show, it's Clark. But love involves responsibility -- and that's what Clark failed to realize and failed to act on.


I don't believe the show ever said he was human. It said he was mortal. A butterfly is mortal. It isn't human.

True, above. And good line about the butterfly, but Clark definitely refers to himself as human/not-human during that period. So whether he IS human or not is up for debate here, but that WAS the term he used to describe his transition to and back from, being human.

[bobser]

Ma' Kent was right on when she asked "Where you two being safe?" (paraphrased of course).

If that's the case maybe the writers thought that was enough to take care of concern of transitting an alien disease to Lana.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jwoodie
True, above. And good line about the butterfly, but Clark definitely refers to himself as human/not-human during that period. So whether he IS human or not is up for debate here, but that WAS the term he used to describe his transition to and back from, being human.

I don't consider it up for debate at all because of the blood that helen took from Clark in season 2. If Clark doesn't have his powers, that blood isn't just going to miraculously change. His DNA is constant, powers or no powers.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
I don't consider it up for debate at all because of the blood that helen took from Clark in season 2. If Clark doesn't have his powers, that blood isn't just going to miraculously change. His DNA is constant, powers or no powers.

Well, I'd call what's going on right now a debate, whatever the merits. Personally, I think it's silly to say that he was "human" during that period and now he's not. But, given that I also said that it was primarily his physicality that gave him his powers, it *might* follow that in order to strip Clark of his powers Jor-El had to affect that phsical make up of his body. And if that was true, then was he human? Eh, maybe, I don't know. I guess that's a leap of faith that I'm not really comfortable with. It's just one of those "go with it" moments that makes "debate" like this sorta pointless, IMO.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Well, I'd call what's going on right now a debate, whatever the merits. Personally, I think it's silly to say that he was "human" during that period and now he's not. But, given that I also said that it was primarily his physicality that gave him his powers, it *might* follow that in order to strip Clark of his powers Jor-El had to affect that phsical make up of his body. And if that was true, then was he human? Eh, maybe, I don't know. I guess that's a leap of faith that I'm not really comfortable with. It's just one of those "go with it" moments that makes "debate" like this sorta pointless, IMO.

Yeah, well of course this is a debate, but I just think the blood taken from Helen is a very good source to go to about Clark's blood being different from any human.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Of course he has the right to be loved. No one is arguing that. If there's anyone lovable and deserving of love on the show, it's Clark. But love involves responsibility -- and that's what Clark failed to realize and failed to act on.


I don't believe the show ever said he was human. It said he was mortal. A butterfly is mortal. It isn't human.

It was said he was human several times, the last one being in Hidden, when he said, "He wasn't human anymore".

As for the blood, Lana clearly states to Lex, that all of his test results came back normal, and testing blood is a normal process for someone who just lost alot of blood. My take all along, was that Jor-el was able to change Clark's blood from when he was being educated. So if his blood changed, and all test results were normal and lung and so forth was where it belonged, I believe him saying he was human is correct.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
It was said he was human several times, the last one being in Hidden, when he said, "He wasn't human anymore".

As for the blood, Lana clearly states to Lex, that all of his test results came back normal, and testing blood is a normal process for someone who just lost alot of blood. My take all along, was that Jor-el was able to change Clark's blood from when he was being educated. So if his blood changed, and all test results were normal and lung and so forth was where it belonged, I believe him saying he was human is correct.

Obviously we don't know what the blood tests entailed, or if they were even fixed by JorEl when he came to take Clark from the hospital, but even if that is correct and he was normal, he still had sex with Lana before any of these results were taken. So for all Clark knew, there might have been something that could have been harmful to Lana, and then there's still the little detail that Clark wasn't born on earth. Now all I can say is this, if I had sex with a girl and later found out that she was an alien, I would definitely be annoyed that the girl was never straight with me beforehand. She would've taken the decision right out of my hands by not telling me that. What if Lana didn't want to sleep with an alien? What if she found that to be disturbing information? Those are all decisions that Clark took out of her hands because he just wanted to please himself and have sex. Plus, he already knows that she may have problems with people who arrive in meteor showers, wasn't that the whole point of scare when Clark thought that Lana would want to kill him for being an alien and having a part in killing her parents?

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
Now all I can say is this, if I had sex with a girl and later found out that she was an alien, I would definitely be annoyed that the girl was never straight with me beforehand.

Dude, words to live by.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Dude, words to live by.

Absolutely.

[All about Clark]

Actually I think that would be very shallow to refuse someone you love just because they were born elsewhere even though they were human just like you.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Actually I think that would be very shallow to refuse someone you love just because they were born elsewhere even though they were human just like you.

I don't think that Lana has really ever given Clark any reason to think she would reject him because of his, er, world of origin. He asked her that question at the end of Visitor and she said she'd be freaked out, but so was Chloe. For about a second. And then it's just good ol' Clark. She would accept him, and she would have accepted him going way back in the series. That's always been a fear of his, but it always seemed unfounded. There are definitely other, more relevant reasons for not telling her.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by myankskent
He has a right to be loved, but in order to be loved, he must be honest with the person that he is having sex with. Yes, he didn't have his powers in Mortal, but that doesn't change the fact that he is an alien. Just go back to season 2 when Helen took blood from him. The results indicated that he wasn't human so what is inside of him is definitely Kryptonian.


Clark has a hard time telling his secret because he has trouble accepting who he really is.You can't tell anybody a secret if you're not sure if this person would handle it better than yourself.He wants so much to be normal that in Mortal,he thought his whish came true...He doesn't know anything about the planet...For once in his life,he thought he was free from all this and he thought he could live normally with Lana,happy ever after:rolleyes:

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
What if Lana didn't want to sleep with an alien? What if she found that to be disturbing information? Those are all decisions that Clark took out of her hands because he just wanted to please himself and have sex. Plus, he already knows that she may have problems with people who arrive in meteor showers, wasn't that the whole point of scare when Clark thought that Lana would want to kill him for being an alien and having a part in killing her parents?
May I just say Bravo. This is exactly the kind of respect and consideration Lana deserved.

As for the "human/not human" debate, I think you have a point, All about Clark, with respect to the tests that Lana brought to Lex. But Clark didn't know about those tests when he was with Lana. He was making an assumption -- and an assumption that had no foundation considering he had lost his powers before and not become human.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Actually I think that would be very shallow to refuse someone you love just because they were born elsewhere even though they were human just like you.

I totally agree. But they deserve to have the information if they are giving up their virginity to you.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Clark has a hard time telling his secret because he has trouble accepting who he really is.You can't tell anybody a secret if you're not sure if this person would handle it better than yourself.He wants so much to be normal that in Mortal,he thought his whish came true...He doesn't know anything about the planet...For once in his life,he thought he was free from all this and he thought he could live normally with Lana,happy ever after:rolleyes:

I agree with this. And for me that is the reason I cut him slack on not telling Lana before sex. For a guy that's had the world on his shoulders, it must have been such a relief to think he was past all that. He did truly believe he would stay human. That he did his responsibility in Arrival and now Jor-el was done with him.

[myankskent]

Well if that's how you'd honestly feel if you were the girl in that situation being lied to by your sexual partner, then I can't argue with that. I'd like to see what other girls would think of that situation.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Clark has a hard time telling his secret because he has trouble accepting who he really is.You can't tell anybody a secret if you're not sure if this person would handle it better than yourself.He wants so much to be normal that in Mortal,he thought his whish came true...He doesn't know anything about the planet...For once in his life,he thought he was free from all this and he thought he could live normally with Lana,happy ever after:rolleyes:
I agree with everythihng you say. But to me, this shows the difference between being selfish and being responsible. Even feeling all of this, Clark should have told Lana. It would have taken courage for Clark to admit the truth -- and it was courage he didn't have. If it were anyone else hiding a secret that would be important to his or her partner, it would still be wrong. Since it's Clark Kent, it's a real lapse in his character. It's definitely not heroic.

[All about Clark]

The weight on Clark's shoulders was extreme for a boy his age and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. After thinking he did his responsibility in Arrival, I don't have a problem with an 18yr old boy doing something selfish just once. This infraction is a drop in a bucket compared to what he'd already done for mankind.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by All about Clark
The weight on Clark's shoulders was extreme for a boy his age and I wouldn't wish that on anyone. After thinking he did his responsibility in Arrival, I don't have a problem with an 18yr old boy doing something selfish just once. This infraction is a drop in a bucket compared to what he'd already done for mankind.

Yeah, that's not cool though. It's not like he's doing something selfish in isolation - it affects Lana too, and deeply. I agree she deserved to be told, and that Clark just didn't have the courage to do so. He owed it to her, especially given their history.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I agree with everythihng you say. But to me, this shows the difference between being selfish and being responsible. Even feeling all of this, Clark should have told Lana. It would have taken courage for Clark to admit the truth -- and it was courage he didn't have. If it were anyone else hiding a secret that would be important to his or her partner, it would still be wrong. Since it's Clark Kent, it's a real lapse in his character. It's definitely not heroic.


Yeah!I don't think it's a question of courage...Put yourself,in Clark's shoes for a second...He's not fortune teller...He really thought that his nightmare was over...For him there was no need to tell it because his problem was solved and he didn't want to talk about anymore:\

[All about Clark]

Their history is that she pushed him more for sex than he has, as in Mortal when she started undressing him twice. Plus they both loved each other and it was consentual and he was human and thought his secret would never become an issue.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Yeah!I don't think it's a question of courage...Put yourself,in Clark's shoes for a second...He's not fortune teller...He really thought that his nightmare was over...For him there was no need to tell it because his problem was solved and he didn't want to talk about anymore:\

Just because he thought he had a reason to justify not talking about it anymore doesn't mean that all of those issues weren't still there. Still from another planet? Check. Still (indirectly) caused her parents death? Check. Might very well be unsafe to have sex with him? Check. Fill in your own issues with this little arrangement, but those were still there even if he felt he had a free-pass to ignore them.

[All about Clark]

Since they were both virgins and both human, there was no reason to think sex would be unsafe.

There wasn't anything he could do about her parents death, and I'm glad he seems to have forgiven himself for that. And Lana didn't appear to put her parents before her love for Clark when she found out in Reckoning.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Just because he thought he had a reason to justify not talking about it anymore doesn't mean that all of those issues weren't still there. Still from another planet? Check. Still (indirectly) caused her parents death? Check. Might very well be unsafe to have sex with him? Check. Fill in your own issues with this little arrangement, but those were still there even if he felt he had a free-pass to ignore them.


Yeah!But,Clark didn't think about telling Lana all this stuff when he saw her taking her clothes off:lol:

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Sweetie
Yeah!But,Clark didn't think about telling Lana all this stuff when he saw her taking her clothes off:lol:

I think it's fair to say it didn't even cross his mind... for better or worse.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Since they were both virgins and both human, there was no reason to think sex would be unsafe.

There wasn't anything he could do about her parents death, and I'm glad he seems to have forgiven himself for that. And Lana didn't appear to put her parents before her love for Clark when she found out in Reckoning.
It seems to me that being a fan of this romance goes hand in hand with being a fan of respect for the people involved. Without the respect, I don't know what you've got. Respecting Lana means being honest with her.

If it were something that was easy for Clark to say, then it would have been no big deal and he would have told her. The very fact that he kept the secret, hid something from Lana, means it was important. Means he should have told her.

Well that's all for me on this pet peeve. On to the next ep!

[GreenRock]

Originally posted by jwoodie
True, above. And good line about the butterfly, but Clark definitely refers to himself as human/not-human during that period. So whether he IS human or not is up for debate here, but that WAS the term he used to describe his transition to and back from, being human.

His description is his description. It does not change the fact that he is an alien with a different biological structure that allows him to have the powers he has. His lack of power is usually due to him not being able to access the solar energy reservoir in his body. If a kryptonian did not have special powers on earth, he would still be an alien.

We could see two submarines that look the same, but one runs on petrol, and the other is powered by a neoclear reacter. If you take any neoclear weapns from the second submarine (as in taking the super powers from clark,) that will not change the fact that if the first explodes it will be a bad incident, while if the second explodes (choose what would that counter in clark :rolleyes: ), it could cause a catastrophic environmental disaster. He is still a kryptonian, even if he called himself human.

[JasonsLea]

:rotfl: OMG this is too rich. I am so happy I haven't been watching lately. I probably would have thrown something at my tv.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
It seems to me that being a fan of this romance goes hand in hand with being a fan of respect for the people involved. Without the respect, I don't know what you've got. Respecting Lana means being honest with her.

If it were something that was easy for Clark to say, then it would have been no big deal and he would have told her. The very fact that he kept the secret, hid something from Lana, means it was important. Means he should have told her.

Well that's all for me on this pet peeve. On to the next ep!


Is Lana completly honest with Clark?In season 4,she asked him to trust her with the piece of the cristal with blood all over it.Clark was extremely worried about her when he saw that.But,he trusted her...He never bothered her with that again...When she was leaving for college without telling him anything.Also,she was going to keep her relationship with Lex secret...it was him who rushed her to tell Clark.There were other times,she didn't had a boyfriend,she threated Clark like crap...She's not stable emotionally enough to be trusted.Lana makes him feel so guilty everytime he tried to open up to her that he can't move on and complet his kryptonian's evolution because she's too stuborn to understand.

I'm tired about everybody's comments:miss perfect has the right to know and Clark is a moron.Will he put his freedom at risk for a girl who's not even honest with him in the first place?Sorry but,his mission is too important for the world to bother with such thing.

[Watching Smallville]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not saying Lana is perfect. I posted about a page on how Lana owes Clark a lot -- her life, for one thing -- and that I don't like the way she's handling the break up at all. And I'm not saying Clark is a moron, either. Both of these people made mistakes, that's why they're not together any more.

If he doesn't trust or respect her enough to tell her he's not human when he plans to have sex with the girl, then he doesn't trust or respect her enough to have sex with her. He needs to leave her alone. And if he goes ahead and makes this selfish decision, then he can't just stop the sexual part of their relationship with no explanation. That's unfair and it's kinda cruel.

FYI, my other pet peeve is that Lana left the party to go see Lex. What was she thinking? That was ridiculous. It's as if she was looking for trouble. So I'm not on anyone's side here. I'm just looking at -- what's the right thing to do.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not saying Lana is perfect. I posted about a page on how Lana owes Clark a lot -- her life, for one thing -- and that I don't like the way she's handling the break up at all. And I'm not saying Clark is a moron, either. Both of these people made mistakes, that's why they're not together any more.

If he doesn't trust or respect her enough to tell her he's not human when he plans to have sex with the girl, then he doesn't trust or respect her enough to have sex with her. He needs to leave her alone. And if he goes ahead and makes this selfish decision, then he can't just stop the sexual part of their relationship with no explanation. That's unfair and it's kinda cruel.

FYI, my other pet peeve is that Lana left the party to go see Lex. What was she thinking? That was ridiculous. It's as if she was looking for trouble. So I'm not on anyone's side here. I'm just looking at -- what's the right thing to do.

I wasn't blame you personally,I was speaking generally.I respect what you're thinking and I saw your other posts somewhere else,you make alot of sense:)

Yes,both made mistakes and both aren't perfect either.But,I hate when she keeps bringing up Clark's secret in every conversation she has with him.I think it's became her obssession just like Lex.It's really annoying when she knows how uncorfortable that makes him feels.By the way,Clark has been obssessed by this girl for years and he had the chance to be who he always wanted to be all his life...It wasn't the honorable thing to do for sure but,he did it without really thinking about consequences...But,when Lana asked him to trust him with the bloody piece of crystal,he did...She could have gone to jail for that but,Clark never bother with that again.Why can she do the same for the man she supposelly loves.Also,if he tells her the thruth,he would end up being Lex's lab's rat:\

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
If he doesn't trust or respect her enough to tell her he's not human when he plans to have sex with the girl, then he doesn't trust or respect her enough to have sex with her. He needs to leave her alone. And if he goes ahead and makes this selfish decision, then he can't just stop the sexual part of their relationship with no explanation. That's unfair and it's kinda cruel.


This is where you lose me, he's suppose to say Lana I'm human now and can have sex but for the record I didn't use to be human. She's like, yea right. Prove it. Well....he can't.

Exactly how do you expect that to work?

It's one thing if he tells her after his change, but not before. And the problem with after, is that he'd have to explain Jor-el's warning. And that is clearly way to much to lay on her.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
This is where you lose me, he's suppose to say Lana I'm human now and can have sex but for the record I didn't use to be human. She's like, yea right. Prove it. Well....he can't.

Exactly how do you expect that to work?

It's one thing if he tells her after his change, but not before. And the problem with after, is that he'd have to explain Jor-el's warning. And that is clearly way to much to lay on her.

This is actually where you lose me. Why does Clark have to prove that he is an alien to Lana? Explaining that he came from Krypton is the truth, and Clark explaining that to Lana will answer all of the questions that she has. Plus, after he got his powers back, telling her the truth then would only be necessary if Clark decided that he wanted to be with her, which he did want. If he didn't want to be with her, then that's his decision and he can breakup with her in whatever way he feels necessary, he can tell her that she was awful in bed for all I care. He still should have told her before he got his powers back. Having sex with a girl when you are an alien is ridiculous. All Clark was concerned about was relieving his sexual tension instead of giving Lana the choice whether or not to sleep with Clark or even date him.

[All about Clark]

All I'm saying is that in being human there was no way he could prove to her he'd been born on Krypton and was an alien. Lana's alway's had to see it to believe it.

As for the sex, it was shown that Lana was the one pushing that and he gave her what she wanted. I'm not sure too many men would say no I don't want sex.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
All I'm saying is that in being human there was no way he could prove to her he'd been born on Krypton and was an alien. Lana's alway's had to see it to believe it.

As for the sex, it was shown that Lana was the one pushing that and he gave her what she wanted. I'm not sure too many men would say no I don't want sex.

Actually, no one pushed for sex, it just happened at the end of mortal. Lana pushed for it in Fanatic, but that was after the fact. You're right that not too many men would say no, but we don't hold Clark to the responsibilities of most men, do we? After all, he is the future superman.

Showing her the key would've been a start if he needed to convice Lana that he was being truthful to her. How about filling her in on all the questions that she has had over the years like with the tornado. The proof is in the explanations that he can now give Lana for all of the things that have made absolutely no sense to her over the years. I doubt she wouldn't believe him.

[Kal-El1978]

Originally posted by muffinpeddler
Exactly! I sat screaming at the TV, "You would be dead 20 times over!"

I feel the same way. Lexana does not work. Please writers read what the fans are saying. Why would Lana go with the number 1 villain? This is not her character. End this please.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by myankskent
Actually, no one pushed for sex, it just happened at the end of mortal. Lana pushed for it in Fanatic, but that was after the fact. You're right that not too many men would say no, but we don't hold Clark to the responsibilities of most men, do we? After all, he is the future superman.

Showing her the key would've been a start if he needed to convice Lana that he was being truthful to her. How about filling her in on all the questions that she has had over the years like with the tornado. The proof is in the explanations that he can now give Lana for all of the things that have made absolutely no sense to her over the years. I doubt she wouldn't believe him.


You're talking about being honest but,Lana wasn't either...Okay,Clark is an alien but,she's a muderer...In season 4,when she brought the bloody piece of the crystal...She asked him to trust her,she just killed Geneviève Teague...She didn't tell him what actually happenned.She was too scare to go to jail...Yes,she wasn't herself,she was isobel...true...But,Clark was a baby when he came on earth with the meteor shower that kill her parents,he was innocent in all this too.

If am I not mistaking she never explained the all story?Why should he tell her anything if she doesn't trust him either with the thruth?

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by myankskent
Actually, no one pushed for sex, it just happened at the end of mortal. Lana pushed for it in Fanatic, but that was after the fact. You're right that not too many men would say no, but we don't hold Clark to the responsibilities of most men, do we? After all, he is the future superman.

No one's pushing for sex, she started undressing him twice in Mortal eppy. If that's not pushing, I don't know what is.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
No one's pushing for sex, she started undressing him twice in Mortal eppy. If that's not pushing, I don't know what is.

That's pushing for sex? Not in my mind. Pushing for sex is making repeated attempts to seduce the other person when they are hesistant to have sex. At the beginning of Mortal, I think they both decided to go up to the loft and start making out. At the end, they were undressing each other. Just because Lana took Clark's shirt off first doesn't mean that she was pushing for it. They both wanted it.


Originally posted by Sweetie
You're talking about being honest but,Lana wasn't either...Okay,Clark is an alien but,she's a muderer...In season 4,when she brought the bloody piece of the crystal...She asked him to trust her,she just killed Geneviève Teague...She didn't tell him what actually happenned.She was too scare to go to jail...Yes,she wasn't herself,she was isobel...true...But,Clark was a baby when he came on earth with the meteor shower that kill her parents,he was innocent in all this too.

If am I not mistaking she never explained the all story?Why should he tell her anything if she doesn't trust him either with the thruth?

She handed Clark the stone with blood on it in commencement and told Clark that she has done something terrible and that she had to leave. Now she may not have told Clark specifically what she had done, but she never hid the fact that she did something. Plus, from Clark's standpoint, he was told by JorEl that human blood stained one of the elements so based on what Lana said and the fact that the stone she handed to him had blood on it, I think Clark can make the assumption that Lana was responsible for it. Plus, in Mortal, Lana told Clark flat out that there were so many things that she hasn't told him and Clark said that what both of them have done is in the past now.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by myankskent
That's pushing for sex? Not in my mind. Pushing for sex is making repeated attempts to seduce the other person when they are hesistant to have sex. At the beginning of Mortal, I think they both decided to go up to the loft and start making out. At the end, they were undressing each other. Just because Lana took Clark's shirt off first doesn't mean that she was pushing for it. They both wanted it.

Well I am a girl and if I take a guy's shirt off, I would expect he would want more than kisses. So I do not agree with you. The first time she took his shirt off, he told her we should wait. So his mind is where mine would be.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Well I am a girl and if I take a guy's shirt off, I would expect he would want more than kisses. So I do not agree with you. The first time she took his shirt off, he told her we should wait. So his mind is where mine would be.

He told her to wait because he wanted their first time to be something special, not because he didn't want to have sex with her. Bottom line is I think saying that Lana was pushing for sex was a little strong. As far as I'm concerned, what Lana did was make the first move, something that needs to happen if you are going to have sex with another person. So if you want to say that everyone who makes the first move is pushing for sex, then I'll agree with that.

[All about Clark]

Thanks, myankskent.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
He told her to wait because he wanted their first time to be something special, not because he didn't want to have sex with her. Bottom line is I think saying that Lana was pushing for sex was a little strong. As far as I'm concerned, what Lana did was make the first move, something that needs to happen if you are going to have sex with another person. So if you want to say that everyone who makes the first move is pushing for sex, then I'll agree with that.

Not to split hairs... but he doesn't tell her they should wait. He says they should take it slow, to which she replies that they've been taking it slow for 4 years. And then they proceed to make out again, hot and heavy. It seems to me the only thing that stops them is the arrival of Sparky, as they both seem pretty interested in ending their very long dry spell right then and there.

As for who initiates it, they have this cute back and forth in that scene that doesn't point to either person ("everyone's waiting for us" "which means we're all alone" and he takes her hand and runs upstairs...) and at the end, it seems like both of them are on equal footing. So to say that either of them is pushing for it... probably more accurate to say that they are both just lusting for each other, period. But that's subjective...

[All about Clark]

The peeling of the clothes was done by Lana. That action was more than Clark had planned as he did not take hers off until later that night in the Talon, and even then he just took off her outer top.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by All about Clark
The peeling of the clothes was done by Lana. That action was more than Clark had planned as he did not take hers off until later that night in the Talon, and even then he just took off her outer top.

"pushing for sex" is a pretty specific thing. It's one of those things that "you know it when you see it" and it's not hard to imagine what it looks like. It also implies some resistance by one of the parties, and in both of those scenes, I don't see any resistance by either of them. Their intentions are clear, in both scenes, and both of them are right there in the moment. Who started to peel who's clothes off first is just visual semantics.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
The peeling of the clothes was done by Lana. That action was more than Clark had planned as he did not take hers off until later that night in the Talon, and even then he just took off her outer top.

Well, let's be realistic about it, Clark was only able to take off her outer top on the WB. This isn't HBO here. Come on All about Clark, I thought we were getting somewhere here, now you're turning on me again. I'm just kidding by the way.


Originally posted by jwoodie
Not to split hairs... but he doesn't tell her they should wait. He says they should take it slow, to which she replies that they've been taking it slow for 4 years. And then they proceed to make out again, hot and heavy. It seems to me the only thing that stops them is the arrival of Sparky, as they both seem pretty interested in ending their very long dry spell right then and there.

As for who initiates it, they have this cute back and forth in that scene that doesn't point to either person ("everyone's waiting for us" "which means we're all alone" and he takes her hand and runs upstairs...) and at the end, it seems like both of them are on equal footing. So to say that either of them is pushing for it... probably more accurate to say that they are both just lusting for each other, period. But that's subjective...

Yeah, you're right. I forgot that Clark said that they should take it slow. I just view the whole situation as both parties were able and willing to have sex and that is what they did.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by jwoodie
"pushing for sex" is a pretty specific thing. It's one of those things that "you know it when you see it" and it's not hard to imagine what it looks like. It also implies some resistance by one of the parties, and in both of those scenes, I don't see any resistance by either of them. Their intentions are clear, in both scenes, and both of them are right there in the moment. Who started to peel who's clothes off first is just visual semantics.

Well, it's clear that you are both men, from a women's perspective, a woman is not going to start undressing a man unless she's willing to have sex. Her actions are telling Clark that she wants sex, pure and simple. He initially held off, wanting to take it slow; tells me he was willing to wait, but by being undressed a second time in a more intimate setting, you can't blame Clark for his actions. That's all I'm saying. In the heat of the moment Clark accepted her wishes.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Well, it's clear that you are both men, from a women's perspective, a woman is not going to start undressing a man unless she's willing to have sex. Her actions are telling Clark that she wants sex, pure and simple. He initially held off, wanting to take it slow; tells me he was willing to wait, but by being undressed a second time in a more intimate setting, you can't blame Clark for his actions. That's all I'm saying. In the heat of the moment Clark accepted her wishes.

But that's my point. You said, "she's willing to have sex". No argument. But you said that she was "pushing" for sex and in both of those scenes I don't see either as the more aggressive.

[myankskent]

Well we also have to understand that many of the writers on this show are men so I'm not sure that what you say about women is really relevant when it comes the way they decide to write a sex scene on a tv show.

[All about Clark]

Well, ask around, I did, and all the girls I asked, said that if the girl takes a guys shirt off in an intimate setting, is a clear sign she wants sex, or she wouldn't do it.

Also, pushing was someone else's choice of wording not mine. I was only trying to convey that Lana started or initiated the desires for sex, that it wasn't Clark's idea, but that he caved in very easily, because after all, he loves this woman and would want to make her happy.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Well, ask around, I did, and all the girls I asked, said that if the girl takes a guys shirt off in an intimate setting, is a clear sign she wants sex, or she wouldn't do it.

Also, pushing was someone else's choice of wording not mine. I was only trying to convey that Lana started or initiated the desires for sex, that it wasn't Clark's idea, but that he caved in very easily, because after all, he loves this woman and would want to make her happy.

What are we debating again? I forget how this whole sex stuff got brought into the conversation.:lol:

[All about Clark]

Someone was blaming Clark for having sex with Lana without telling her the secret. And I said that Lana clearly wanted sex with Clark and that he gave into her wishes. He wasn't seeking out to have sex, more of a moment of weakness. I think that's how it went.

I'm losing interest too. I don't expect Clark to be perfect, and I do expect him to be very careful with his secret. And although I agree that to be so intimate to have sex should be intimate to tell the secret, but I saw it as a moment of weakness/error in judgement.

And for that matter, a moment of weakness/error in judgement is also how I saw the marriage proposal. Feeling as if he was going to lose her.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
Someone was blaming Clark for having sex with Lana without telling her the secret. And I said that Lana clearly wanted sex with Clark and that he gave into her wishes. He wasn't seeking out to have sex, more of a moment of weakness. I think that's how it went.

I'm losing interest too. I don't expect Clark to be perfect, and I do expect him to be very careful with his secret. And although I agree that to be so intimate to have sex should be intimate to tell the secret, but I saw it as a moment of weakness/error in judgement.

And for that matter, a moment of weakness/error in judgement is also how I saw the marriage proposal. Feeling as if he was going to lose her.

Yeah, I guess I can go along with that line of thought for now. If anything changes I'll let you know.

If you want, you can make a statement regarding any of the characters and we can see if we disagree on anything else.

[clark&lanafan95]

Lana is as dumb as a bag of bricks . "oh lex thank you for saving me ." he didn't even get hurt , the bullet wouldn't have hit them anyway . God she is stupid .

[cmm]

Originally posted by clark&lanafan95
Lana is as dumb as a bag of bricks . "oh lex thank you for saving me ." he didn't even get hurt , the bullet wouldn't have hit them anyway . God she is stupid .

the bullet would have hit them that's the lame part. It was clark who saved them both.

[Bilza]

I think I'm going to review this episode on this discussion thread (topic) because I guess it's the most talked about for this episode and rightly so.

Listen guys I'm as disappointed with Lana's character as much as anyone. I think she's always been like this. She is somewhat a hypocrite. One moment she's grateful for Clark saving her and the next she says "I dont need you to protect me" and "I don't owe him the truth". She has got a short memory but that's because I feel she feels hurt by how bitter her relationship with clark (and his dishonesty) broke down and I feel she's trying to get back at Clark in some way. Going out with his old best friend just shows how naive she can be especially after their relationship just ended and knowing full well how much Clark feels about Lex. But I think she's always been naive falling for guys with a hero complex. What gets me is when Clark tries give her advice about certain guys she throws it back at his face, being completely dismissive of him. However, my suspicions have been grown particularly this season that perhaps she's always had a thing for Lex, why she's sometimes defending him and always going to him for help. Lex has obviously been manipulative and she straight believes she can trust Lex more than anyone else including Clark. She too easily falls for guys especially when she's vulnerable and hurt and over obssessed with this "honesty" thing. She did say she's always felt alone even around her friends which is why she's reaching for that someone she can completely trust. Her naivity comes out of desperation which leads to people thinking she's a bit of a slut. I guess she's never been the perfect girl even when she was the sweet/cute lana but even in those times she acted somewhat whiny and hypocritical.

However, the reason why her character has been written in this way to portray her as NOT the right girl for Clark. People have been hanging on this Clana thing, assuming that Lana is some sort of saint and that she's the best girl for Clark, but that's never been the case if you've been watching the whole series how their story has developed. The truth is no matter how much Clark wants to deny it is that he doesn't trust her and he cant trust her because of the way she acts at times. Deep down Clark especially this season realised more and more doubts about her character and whether she would the right girl for him in the future.

Clark is not completely blameless for Lana's strange character at times. His dishonesty is probably what drives people to such behaviour. I mean look at Lex. I've always believed that one of the key reasons why Lex turns out to be who he is because of Clark's dishonesty and mistrust he has in him. Lana has similar qualities to Lex but I wouldn't say evil or dark in some way. I understand Clark not trusting Lex but why not tell Lana the truth? Maybe should would have turned out differently if Clark was more honest with her. He tried to protect her but for me it became apparent while he left Lana exposed to such behaviour that perhaps he didn't feel she was right girl for him. If you're willing to spend the rest of your life with someone then you have to be willing to be honest with them. It's true and this line has been said quite a few times whether by Lex or Lana or others that "any relationship based on deceit and lies is destined to fail".

I think the writers deliberate intention was/is to make us believe that Lana is not the right girl for clark which will bring us closer to Clois and the development of that story. I dont think necessarily she's a poorly written character. I've actually enjoyed Clana during the good and bad times. Afterall look at it this way without Clana, we wouldn't be talking about it almost every week. It just adds to the fascination that is Smallville. Not every character has to be liked on smallville unless if you're Lionel and certainly Lex (my favourite character) but I guess they're better written and their story is more complex. I as much as anyone I'm frustrated and disappointed with Lana's behaviour and character particularly this season but it's certainly been intriguing to watch no matter how annoyed you can be. It just adds to the interest to this already fascinating storyline especially the character development.

A final word on Lex (the fascinating character he is). Again some good intentions from him no matter how manipulative it got with the whole Lana thing especially when he advised Lana to tell Clark about them when he says: "I know you’re angry but he deserves a modicum of respect". That showed some maturity and goodness on his part showing us how much he still "loves" clark and how much he wants them to be friends, "to find some common ground" again despite their bitter differences. He might have stole Clark's "girlfriend" and he cant be trusted still because of the darkness that still exists inside him, but I cant help but feel a little sympathy for him. He's desperate still to avoid darkness and not lose the people he cares about. As I say that, he's leading himself to be used and manipulated by Milton Fine with the whole virus thing. Again, I ask myself is Lex just trying to find out more about Fine or are his intentions to involve himself with such a project more devious? He continues to keep his intentions hidden even from Lana after he told her how honesty he'll be to her. Just sums up the fascinating/complex character that is MR's Lex Luthor.

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I'm going to have to respond to the fact that people think that Lana lies and is deceitful, because after watching some episodes over again, I don't view Lana as that kind of person. She may show some flashes of it, but it's not as blatant as everyone makes it out to be, at least in my opinion. I'll start with Commencement and work my way forward to Reckoning. Lana approached Clark and told him that she did something really terrible and that she couldn't leave with Clark's parents. Again, Lana did not tell Clark the truth about what she did, but she did mention something. She then hands Clark the stone with blood on it and tells Clark that the stone was meant for him, how she knows is ridiculous and is a major plothole, but that's what happened. From Clark's standpoint, he must have known at that point that a) that was what JorEl was talking about when he told Clark that human blood has stained one of the elements, and b) that Lana was responsible for it because she had the element in her possession. So the idea that Clark has no idea about Jason's mother isn't necessarily true because he must know that Lana had a part in the blood being on the stone. Alright, so now we get to arrival where Lana has not told Clark about Jason's mother and has not told Clark about the fact that Lex covered the murder up for her. At the end of Arrival, she tells him that she saw a spaceship in the crater. At the start of Mortal, Lana tells Clark that there were so many things that she hasn't told Clark and Clark promptly tells her that what both of them have done is in the past now. So I really don't know how to jump all over Lana, at this point, about not telling Clark about Jason's mom or the fact that Lex covered it up. To go off topic for a minute, the problem that I have with Clark in Mortal is that he has sex with Lana without telling her that he is an alien. He didn't have powers at that point, he didn't think that he was going to get his powers back so there is absolutely no reason not to tell Lana about it before they had sex. And then, compounding that issue, once Clark gets his powers back, he immediately pulls away from Lana. Now I can't be as brutal about this as the girls/women on this board because I'm a guy, but my guess is most girls out there would be furious if their boyfriend has sex with them all of the time for probably around 3 months, and then all of a sudden is afraid to touch them again. It took Lana until Fanatic to finally push the issue with Clark, and he turns it around on her with her fascination with astronomy, and getting back on topic, Lana blatantly deflects what Clark says, and without actually saying anything, lies about what she really is doing with the books. Then at the end of Fanatic, Lana comes clean about researching the meteor shower and shares her findings with Clark. Again, Lana told lies, but in time, she owned up to it.

The last part of this post is about Lex and Lana and how it relates to Clark. I do think that Lana has lied about her affiliation with Lex, especially concerning the spaceship, but I want to take this from the Clark angle. Clark must know that Lana was still very close to Lex during the first half of season 5. Lana might have been lying to Clark about it, but Clark saw Lana with Lex in Splinter, of course the images that he saw were incorrect but she still went to Lex for help when Clark went insane, he also saw Lana with Lex in Lockdown, particularly when he saw them in the hospital room. I mean Clark saw Lana hugging Lex for goodness sakes, doesn't that tell him something? So what I don't get is how Clark proposes to Lana in Reckoning knowing full well that Lana still had a tight relationship with Lex from Splinter and most recently in Lockdown? Furthermore, being that is the case, how does Clark not tell Lana in Reckoning about Lex. I mean, Clark must know something is up between them, not romantically, but the fact that Lana was still seen with Lex during a year where Clark and Lex were enemies should've raised a red flag in Clark's head before he was quick to propose to her without setting her straight about Lex. And I'll be clear about this, I think it is completely Lana's fault that she is still hanging around Lex in season 5 and I don't fault anyone but her, except for Lex because he knew how to reel her in. I know this is a long post with a lot of issues so feel free to rip it apart.


Agree with alot of what you say! Well said!

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I agree with what you said about Lana mostly coming clean with Clark. She even wanted to talk about the spaceship and he wouldn't talk about it with her. If he'd talked about the spaceship with her, telling her might have had some context--especially when she said (paraphrasing), "What if, in the first meteor shower, there was a ship and whoever came in it has been with us all this time..." When he didn't say anything at that point, I just wanted him to break up with her and move on.



This is where I think Clark just hatched the proposal scheme and decided to tell her because--as he said--he felt her slipping away. It wasn't that he trusted her at that point, he just didn't want to lose her--or lose her to Lex. His act of desperation shows just how much he realized that Lana and Lex were getting kind of tight. I don't think it occured to him to tell her about Lex, he just wanted to not lose her. Then, when the whole debacle that was Reckoning happened, he must have realized inwardly not only that Lana knowing his secret would put her in danger because of Lex, but also that he really couldn't trust her with the secret. At least that's where my head's at with that whole situation now. (Could change)

So, one the one hand, she doesn't owe him anything beyond telling him that, yes, she's with Lex now. She has been more honest with Clark than he has been with her. And even though down deep inside she must know how many times over she owes her life to Clark, that info hasn't made it to the conscious part of her brain yet. Lana is self-centered. It's who she is. Like Clark, I don't think she really reasons things out. I think they're both pretty reactive. I hope that changes soon, especially with Clark. Lex ponders over things...plots, ruminates, plans. He really is the antithesis of Clark. ...Maybe that will have a positive effect on Lana.

Also agree with you! Couldn't have said it better myself!

[fuchsiaRose]

Maybe her entire existence. Now I'm really sorry he ever saved your ungrateful @$$.
:rotfl:

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Exactly! I sat screaming at the TV, "You would be dead 20 times over!"
True dat! :cool:

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Lana is the worst character ever written....
Amen!

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Let's get one thing straight, Lana is not evil. She is with an evil guy, but she is not evil herself. Until I see her plotting to destroy the world or conducting experiments on people and hurting them to get answers that she wants, she is anything but evil. So let's stop the insanity that Lana is evil.
Uh, she tortured Lionel and tried to kill Lionel. So by your definitions, she's evil now. :lol:

[Raistlin]

But he didn't mean it when he said he didn't love her. He had reasons for breaking it off--and trying to protect her from Lex was actually part of his reason. So his heart was still broken and she ended up getting closer to Lex anyway.



I so agree. I would have loved to have seen that!



ITA she's not evil. Lana has always been written as pretty self-absorbed. It's part of who Lana is. And after a break-up, there is usually a period of dislike for the person who broke up with you, especially if you really did love them and really did want it to work. And now to add to her feelings of anger at Clark and her natural self-absorb-ness (man, what is the correct word for that?) she is being influenced by the master manipulator that is Lex. It's going to be interesting to see what happens next.

True, I was all for Clana, but I took Lana with all her flaws. At least in that way she's been written fairly consistently. I do believe they waited too long to develop her character and that hurt her, and they wrote Clana poorly. Eh, water under the bridge. If her turning to Lex and taking on his evil tint makes her interesting, then...Yay!

JMHO

Failing to see how this "self-absorbed" tag got hung on Lana. She has been shown organizing blood drives and volunteering. She supported Whitney during his father's illness and was loyal to him. She tried to help Adam and be his friend. She went managed the coffee shop. She's been supportive and loyal to Clark when they were dating. Self-absorbed people don't generally make themselves available to others.

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...she owe's Clark just about everything. I don't even want to list the times he's pulled her rear end out of the fire.

That's true and he went out of his way to make sure she didn't associate him with any of it. So, from her perspective, she doesn't owe Clark anything. He broke her heart and now he's in her face. She has 4 words for him: HIT THE ROAD JACK.

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Yeah, I agree with this. I would also say that this is just another layer in Lex's manipulation as well. After Reckoning, he learned from his ham-fisted mistakes in dealing with Lana and has been brilliantly subtle since then. Like at the end of Hypnotic when he starts to defend Clark and Lana just stops him. He's putting himself on the moral high-ground in her eyes, over Clark of all people who is virtually unimpeachable. He's done that a couple of times since then and this was another good example. He was probably thinking that he wished he could be a fly on the wall when she told him, just to see his face, but to her he just seems like the magnanimous gentile that he's trying to portray. All of that has been nicely written - subtle but twisted at the same time.

Excellent observation.

[Raistlin]

Yeah, you're probably right.....but you gotta admit.....this hypothetical scene is so totally Lana!

No, it's not.