Opinions on Lana

[cotton candy girl]

I really don't remember Lana pining so much in season 2 as in season 3. So she did stand on her own in season 2, unless I'm forgetting something. And if season three was a "pine-fest", what does that make Clark? Why don't we say "Clark can't stand on his own?" What a double standard, imo. He's been pining for Lana since the very first episode, but she's the one who can't stand on her own?

And actually Adam turned to Lana in season three, and she helped him out; he's the one who needed her help.

[IVODARK]

You don't remember Lana pining so much in season 2? WOW. I think that's called selective memory... just kidding.

Well, the thing is, Lana never had a real reason not to make a move on Clarkie boy, yet she didn't (least say, season 2). Why? Well, you tell me.

[cotton candy girl]

So because she didn't make the first move to start a relationship with Clark, she wasn't standing on her own? Maybe she thought it was Clark's place to make the first move. But how does this show her not standing on her own?

[lastdaughterofkrypton]

Originally posted by myankskent
So Lana has two choices, either she cuts everyone out of her life because they all lie to her, or she goes to Lex, maybe in just a friends kind of way or maybe it's something more. Either way, the writing this season has made it logical for Lana to go to Lex given the fact that everyone else keeps things from her, and these "things" are quite noticeable to Lana.
Actaullty she got plenty of choices:
A. She can try to be an "unconditional" friend and understand that people keep secrets for a reason and love Clark secrets and all. (Like I do ;))
B. She can make new friends and tell them straight our she can't tolerate lies.
C. See inside herself and find out why no one trust her, maybe God forbids is HER, she can ask herself I'm too jugdemental? Can I keep a secret?
D. Go to a psychic that tell her everyone secrets. :D (actually a ocultism obessesed Lana or a Lana that eventually , like in season 3 got Goth will have make her more interesting)
E. Hire a private eye that follow around all the persons that have secrets so she can know them. (or better she can study to become one that wya seh will have been in the game like with Chloe and Clark)
F. Kill everybody that has lie to her (with her face no judge will condem her).
Sorry guys I don't mean to hurt you but I really think you are justifing her beyond reasonable doubt I don't think a judge will find her not guilty of being way to whining over people. Just my two cents.

[All about Clark]

What Lana does know about Lex:
1) That he tried to steal her stone.
2) That he got her boyfriend fired.
3) His negative past from Zero.
4) His 13 women from Bound in the newpaper.
5) That Lex was raised by a criminal (Lionel).
6) Lex followed Jason to China and kept Lana in the dark.
7) Lex almost killed everyone in Scare.
8) Lex's other half threated her home and force kissed her.
9) Lex investigating Clark all along and trying to get medical records.
10) Lana believes Lex used the silver k but really didn't.
11) Lex gave her another unwanted kiss in Reckoning and followed her which almost got her killed.
12) Lex owned the company doing experiments on Victor.

The thing is that Clark never did anything to hurt Lana, just to withhold his deepest feelings and thoughts. Yet Lex does things wrong that she knows of and still chooses to kiss him, it is just so OOC and wrong. It's like Lana doesn't have a brain cell left.

[IVODARK]

I'm getting the feeling you guys don't like Lana, like, at all. I wonder why that is?

By the way, lastdaughter, that was funny.

[Big Albowski]

MOD NOTE:
Please keep the MAIN focus of this thread on events in "Fragile"!

Al

[xrayvision]

I just hope that when all this ends, he chews her out like he did to Pete (but much worse) at the end of Velocity, because we know a lot of "collateral damage" will be causing by her relationship with Lex.

[shy175223]

Now that's very rare to see, Clark chewing Lana like he did Pete and Chloe. He gets on Pete and Chloe when they have done something wrong to offend but with Lana he seems he takes her chewing him alot of the time. Now it would be something to see Clark getting anger at Lana for once.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by shy175223
Now that's very rare to see, Clark chewing Lana like he did Pete and Chloe. He gets on Pete and Chloe when they have done something wrong to offend but with Lana he seems he takes her chewing him alot of the time. Now it would be something to see Clark getting anger at Lana for once.

That's because there is no need for Clark to chew Lana out, he does enough to her by continuously pulling away from her. That is his way of chewing Lana out.

[shy175223]

ohhhh okay.

[xrayvision]

He actually did in a deleted scene of season 4. It was very interesting to see.

[All about Clark]

It was a shame that scene had to be deleted. Without it, everyone thinks Clark's never mad at her.

[xrayvision]

I loved that scene. I think she was accusing him of being Smallville's Barry Bonds (as well as a ton of other names in baseball, wrestling, and a million other sports). He just flew off the deep end. Probably my 2nd favorite deleted scene after the one w/ Clark's birthday party from Talisman.

I'm surprised they don't have anything for Smallville fans to vent their anger for Lana, Clark, etc. I was just thinking today that the company that makes those SIMS games (I think it's electronic arts), should make a Smallville SIMS game called SIMSVILLE. I'm sure the people on this forum will drive "Virtual Lana" crazy and make her get killed along with many other things with Lex, Lionel, Clark, etc. I think it would be a huge hit actually. There are so many locations that they can have (cave, school, FOS, Talon, loft, Kent farm, Torch, Met U, etc).

[Daphne]

Lana's turning to the dark side............

[ProudPenny]

Again, the topic is: Your opinion of Lana IN THIS EPISODE. Thanks =)

[treker]

Originally posted by ProudPenny
Again, the topic is: Your opinion of Lana IN THIS EPISODE. Thanks =)

1st....I love the character of Lana.

But, with that in mind....she's turning into a hypocryte.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Originally posted by myankskent
I'm sorry, but my problem with Lana's character has nothing to do with Lana's character, it has to do with Clark's character. If Clark can't tell Lana the truth, then Lana is kept in the dark about everything and she is basically going to go to the person that is more open to her, and that person is Lex as of right now. Of course Lex is keeping things from her, but he is balancing it out by telling her about the spaceship and covering up what she did in Commencement.

Maybe you could clarify whether all your problems with Lana stem from Clark, or if it's just the whole Lexana thing. 'Cause from the sound of things, you don't really have a problem with Lana at all -- you have a problem with Clark. Which is fine. But there's no way that everything that's wrong with Lana has to do with everything that Clark makes wrong in her life. Smallville may be a TV show, but the basic truths of life can be applied -- no one can make you do anything or act a certain way. You make your own choices, and you are responsible for your own actions.



Originally posted by myankskent
To me, many people out there say that Lana should stay away from Lex, that she should understand that Lex is evil and all of that, but from her standpoint, Clark lies to her just as much, or even more than Lex. Now of course Clark's lies don't put her in danger, but she is unaware of what Lex can do based on the fact that Clark has never given her all of the dirt on Lex, like he has given to Chloe.

Lana shouldn't have to be spoonfed knowledge of Lex's compromised state as a human being. She's seen first hand what Lex can do and has done (prime example: "Mortal"). Now whether she chooses to ignore those things in light of how she feels about him and the friendship that they've developed is a different story. But I don't think the case can be made for Lana's total unawareness in regards to the truth of Lex's character.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Maybe you could clarify whether all your problems with Lana stem from Clark, or if it's just the whole Lexana thing. 'Cause from the sound of things, you don't really have a problem with Lana at all -- you have a problem with Clark. Which is fine. But there's no way that everything that's wrong with Lana has to do with everything that Clark makes wrong in her life. Smallville may be a TV show, but the basic truths of life can be applied -- no one can make you do anything or act a certain way. You make your own choices, and you are responsible for your own actions.




Lana shouldn't have to be spoonfed knowledge of Lex's compromised state as a human being. She's seen first hand what Lex can do and has done (prime example: "Mortal"). Now whether she chooses to ignore those things in light of how she feels about him and the friendship that they've developed is a different story. But I don't think the case can be made for Lana's total unawareness in regards to the truth of Lex's character.

This should clarify things for you. Lana doing drugs, Lana going to Lex ROMANTICALLY...All her fault. But she has no reason to cut Lex out of her life totally. Chloe never was friends with Lex so it isn't like she did cut lex out of her life. Clark may have done so, but why did Clark cut Lex out of his life? It was because of the things that Lex has done regarding Clark's secret and because of the Aquaman/Cyborg stuff, things that Lana apparently doesn't know about. Lana continuously pressing Clark on the truth is not her fault because if Clark gives her indications that he wants to be with her and then decides to change the rules midstream and noticeably keep things from her, she has every right to press him for the truth or she can walk away from him totally. Clark lied again about his feelings for her and they broke anyway, so it's a moot point right now.

One more thing...some of what Lex has done is known to Lana, I agree, but then again, Lana is also aware that Clark keeps secrets from her, so both guys are flawed according to Lana in terms of keeping secrets. Lex has also been revealing a lot more to Lana this season than in the past so that has also made Lana trust him more. If she gets burned by that trust, it's her fault but Clark could attempt to do his part and remind her of how bad Lex actually is. The problem is doing that will reveal his secret to her.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I see...that does clarify things.

I think the point still stands that just because Lana doesn't know EVERYTHING about Lex that Clark does, that shouldn't excuse her blind acceptance of his character. I really don't think Clark telling her anything would make a difference since she doesn't trust him anyway -- she didn't even when Chloe warned her, and supposedly, they're friends. So at this point, I think Lana's just being naive. No one else in Smallville needs a full-fledged college level course on the evils of Lex Luthor, and Lana should be no different. JMO.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
I see...that does clarify things.

I think the point still stands that just because Lana doesn't know EVERYTHING about Lex that Clark does, that shouldn't excuse her blind acceptance of his character. I really don't think Clark telling her anything would make a difference since she doesn't trust him anyway -- she didn't even when Chloe warned her, and supposedly, they're friends. So at this point, I think Lana's just being naive. No one else in Smallville needs a full-fledged college level course on the evils of Lex Luthor, and Lana should be no different. JMO.

Lana is different because Lex has done positive things for her, particularly this season. He covered up the murder, although Isobelle is the one who did it, and he also included her in the spaceship discussion. So she has clearly seen a side to Lex that no one else sees because they only view him on the outside. Even though Lex is dangerous on the inside, he has done a good job covering it up and deflecting any concerns that Lana has had and further turn it around on Clark. Then, what happens? Clark lies to her and then breaks up with her, making Lex look like the smart guy looking out for Lana. Also, if you tell Lana about Lex in the proper way, she might listen, but what Chloe did is a waste of time. Going to Lex is not the way to handle it, you have to sit Lana down and make it known that you are concerned for her. If that requires too much effort or is not worth it then Lana would clearly not mean a lot to you as a friend, just like if Lana bites Chloe's head off for being concerned then that woud show that Lana doesn't view Chloe as a good friend.

[mobiusklein]

myaskent, covering up a murder is a good thing? Then writing a note reminding that they are owed? Seriously now, I'd be wondering how the heck he HID the BODY! And how much I owed him. Didn't Lana watch the Godfather? All favors are called in eventually and that was a enormous favor.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by mobiusklein
myaskent, covering up a murder is a good thing? Then writing a note reminding that they are owed? Seriously now, I'd be wondering how the heck he HID the BODY! And how much I owed him. Didn't Lana watch the Godfather? All favors are called in eventually and that was a enormous favor.

Question: We are 18 episodes past that right now...Has Lex threatened her with that information at all?

[Clarkified]

I had a WTF moment when she told Chloe that she humiliated her. Ein?????? :confused:

I thought it was the other way around, Lana. :rolleyes:

[SnarkMasterJ]

Originally posted by myankskent
Lana is different because Lex has done positive things for her, particularly this season. He covered up the murder, although Isobelle is the one who did it, and he also included her in the spaceship discussion. So she has clearly seen a side to Lex that no one else sees because they only view him on the outside. Even though Lex is dangerous on the inside, he has done a good job covering it up and deflecting any concerns that Lana has had and further turn it around on Clark. Then, what happens? Clark lies to her and then breaks up with her, making Lex look like the smart guy looking out for Lana. Also, if you tell Lana about Lex in the proper way, she might listen, but what Chloe did is a waste of time. Going to Lex is not the way to handle it, you have to sit Lana down and make it known that you are concerned for her. If that requires too much effort or is not worth it then Lana would clearly not mean a lot to you as a friend, just like if Lana bites Chloe's head off for being concerned then that woud show that Lana doesn't view Chloe as a good friend.

Well, as I recall, Chloe did express her concerns as a friend, and Lana didn't want to hear any of that. Now the way Chloe handled that situation is for other threads, but I don't think anyone missed that the undertone of Chloe's actions came from a friendly place.

And Lana isn't the only one Lex has done positive things for, so I don't think an argument can be based on that.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Well, as I recall, Chloe did express her concerns as a friend, and Lana didn't want to hear any of that. Now the way Chloe handled that situation is for other threads, but I don't think anyone missed that the undertone of Chloe's actionscame from a friendly place.

And Lana isn't the only one Lex has done positive things for, so I don't think an argument can be based on that.

She's the only one this season that he has done positive things for and that's all that matters.

And like you said above, the way Chloe handled the situation is for other threads.

[SnarkMasterJ]

That's not true either. And if you think it is, maybe you could provide evidence to support your statement.

I know it is. That's why I said it...

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
That's not true either. And if you think it is, maybe you could provide evidence to support your statement.

Let's take all of the main characters and answer whether or not Lex has done positive things for them this season.

Chloe: No
Clark: Definitely not
Martha: No
Lana: Yes
Jonathan: No
Lois: No

If you disagree, give me evidence of Lex doing something positive.

[SnarkMasterJ]

No, that's not what I was disagreeing to, I was disagreeing to it being all that mattered. My point was that Lana is turning a blind eye to what she has found out about Lex because he happens to be in her corner. He is quite a charmer, but Lana has proven she can be immune to his charms in past seasons, so this season...she looks kind of spineless.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
No, that's not what I was disagreeing to, I was disagreeing to it being all that mattered. My point was that Lana is turning a blind eye to what she has found out about Lex because he happens to be in her corner. He is quite a charmer, but Lana has proven she can be immune to his charms in past seasons, so this season...she looks kind of spineless.

Ok, then lets go back to where Chloe and Clark realized that Lex wasn't worth being a friend anymore. I guess you can point to the fact that Lex dragged Chloe to the caves during the meteor showers for answers after he let Lana go on the helicopter to safety. Prior to that, Chloe realized that Lex was dangerous when she revealed in Blank that she understood that Lex was a major threat to Clark if he were to find out his secret. As for Clark, their problems have started way back in season 3 when everyone was friends with Lex. Chloe went to Lex for help during the time where Clark claimed that his friendship with Lex was over. So again, if Chloe realized how bad Lex was when she learned Clark's secret last season, how is Lana supposed to pick up on this as well?

[SnarkMasterJ]

Actually, Chloe and Lana aren't comparable as characters, neither are their reactions to situations or anything of that nature, especially concerning Lex. So from the get, it's hard to relate to anything that was said based on that.

If Lana wanted to dig hard enough, I'm sure she could find plenty of reasons not to be friends with Lex without needing a step-by-step manual drawn up for her. Lex has hurt and betrayed a lot more people than Clark.

And the point still stands that just because Lana doesn't know what Clark and Chloe know doesn't mean she doesn't know anything. What she knows she choose to ignore because she wants to believe the best about Lex -- maybe because she believes there's good in him, maybe because she feels like she can't trust Clark, so she might as well trust Lex since he was around. It's hard to tell.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Actually, Chloe and Lana aren't comparable as characters, neither are their reactions to situations or anything of that nature, especially concerning Lex. So from the get, it's hard to relate to anything that was said based on that.

If Lana wanted to dig hard enough, I'm sure she could find plenty of reasons not to be friends with Lex without needing a step-by-step manual drawn up for her. Lex has hurt and betrayed a lot more people than Clark.

And the point still stands that just because Lana doesn't know what Clark and Chloe know doesn't mean she doesn't know anything. What she knows she choose to ignore because she wants to believe the best about Lex -- maybe because she believes there's good in him, maybe because she feels like she can't trust Clark, so she might as well trust Lex since he was around. It's hard to tell.

Lana and chloe aren't comparable characters because Chloe was never friends with Lex. She wasn't in business with him with the talon. But if she trusted Lex enough to go to him at the end of season 3 to get help, when did that trust run out? Well it ran out when she found out about Clark's secret and because she was dragged to the caves during the meteor shower. That is when she saw the real Lex Luthor. This is where Lana and Chloe can be compared. None of those things happened to Lana and she was never made aware of what happened to Aquaman and Cyborg. Every person has flaws, but Lana doesn't see Lex as a murderer, she sees him as a person who has a quest to get the truth and who has the resources to do it. If she knew the lengths that Lex goes to in order to get the truth, ie. Torturing Aquaman and putting someone in danger during a meteor shower, she would most certainly view Lex differently.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Okay. I don't think you addressed any of my other points though, besides comparing Chloe and Lana.

It doesn't seem like anyone else in Smallville, the main characters included, has problems uncovering the truth when it comes to Lex, so the fact that Lana doesn't do it is her choice. The things she has found out about Lex in seasons past, I think, should warrant sufficient suspicion on her part. But she's been blinded -- by her own naivety, by her desire to learn more about "out there", by her dysfunctional relationship with Clark.

It sounds like you're still saying that because Lana doesn't know what Clark and Chloe know, Lana has no reason to be suspicious of Lex. And it's just not true.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Okay. I don't think you addressed any of my other points though, besides comparing Chloe and Lana.

It doesn't seem like anyone else in Smallville, the main characters included, has problems uncovering the truth when it comes to Lex, so the fact that Lana doesn't do it is her choice. The things she has found out about Lex in seasons past, I think, should warrant sufficient suspicion on her part. But she's been blinded -- by her own naivety, by her desire to learn more about "out there", by her dysfunctional relationship with Clark.

It sounds like you're still saying that because Lana doesn't know what Clark and Chloe know, Lana has no reason to be suspicious of Lex. And it's just not true.

It is Lana's fault, don't get me wrong, but you also have to admit that if Lana knew the whole story, she wouldn't be as close to Lex as she is now. There is no reason to not be friends with Lex if you are Lana right now. Being more than friends? That is just Lana's stupidity if she actually has feelings for Lex or if she is playing him. We'll wait to find out the answer to that question. But Lana's stupidity I believe still stems from the fact that Clark, or the writers, whichever you choose, refuse to make Lana's character aware of all of the dirt on Lex. And as for other characters on this show, Lois is the only character in this show right now that stays away from Lex without knowing Clark's secret but this is attributed to the fact that Lois was never friends with Lex and let's be honest, Lois' character is on the back burner compared to every other character on this show.

[xrayvision]

Remember that Clark & Lex broke off their friendship in Mortal at the end (it did seem like Clark was giving Lex another chance to build up their trust at the beginning of the episode). In Mortal, Lex put the Kents, Lana, and other Smallville citizens in danger after breaking out those criminals from Belle Reve. I'm pretty sure Clark at that point without any powers would have told Lana about that, since he couldn't secretly protect her with his powers anymore.

Lana also knew that Lex got Jason fired from S4, that he had Jason spy on her in S4, that he went to China to search for the stone without telling her (which did upset her), and most of all she knew what Lex did with all those women in Bound. I think she should clearly know about all that.

In S3, Lex did tell her (I think in Legacy) that a person can't be judged based on their actions in a single day, but over the entire time they've been known. She seems to be forgetting about the bad things Lex did, and I think she's doing it knowingly. Perhaps it is due to insecurities about a lack of having other friends, or wanting to hurt Clark, but she is not stupid and knows what Lex is about.

She is stubborn though and this was seen in Hidden. She ignored what Lex said about Clark's resurrection since she was in denial and wanted to be with him. Now she's being stubborn to what Chloe and the back of her mind are telling her about Lex.

I think Lana should ask herself why Clark, Chloe, Lionel, Lois, and others who have never had romantic relations with Lex have all distanced themselves from him. It should be apparent that "secrets & lies Clark" is not the only one who broke off his ties with Lex.

She's doing a very bad thing here, does have some bait being given to her by Lex (telling her the truth & disclosure), but is failing to do a complete analysis based on what she knows about Lex's faults. In real life, someone in her predicament who is going to college should at worst make friends with someone else at the college.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by xrayvision
Remember that Clark & Lex broke off their friendship in Mortal at the end (it did seem like Clark was giving Lex another chance to build up their trust at the beginning of the episode). In Mortal, Lex put the Kents, Lana, and other Smallville citizens in danger after breaking out those criminals from Belle Reve. I'm pretty sure Clark at that point without any powers would have told Lana about that, since he couldn't secretly protect her with his powers anymore.

Lana also knew that Lex got Jason fired from S4, that he had Jason spy on her in S4, that he went to China to search for the stone without telling her (which did upset her), and most of all she knew what Lex did with all those women in Bound. I think she should clearly know about all that.

In S3, Lex did tell her (I think in Legacy) that a person can't be judged based on their actions in a single day, but over the entire time they've been known. She seems to be forgetting about the bad things Lex did, and I think she's doing it knowingly. Perhaps it is due to insecurities about a lack of having other friends, or wanting to hurt Clark, but she is not stupid and knows what Lex is about.

She is stubborn though and this was seen in Hidden. She ignored what Lex said about Clark's resurrection since she was in denial and wanted to be with him. Now she's being stubborn to what Chloe and the back of her mind are telling her about Lex.

I think Lana should ask herself why Clark, Chloe, Lionel, Lois, and others who have never had romantic relations with Lex have all distanced themselves from him. It should be apparent that "secrets & lies Clark" is not the only one who broke off his ties with Lex.

She's doing a very bad thing here, does have some bait being given to her by Lex (telling her the truth & disclosure), but is failing to do a complete analysis based on what she knows about Lex's faults. In real life, someone in her predicament who is going to college should at worst make friends with someone else at the college.

I think it's very difficult to determine how much she knows. She apparently didn't know about Lex in the Asylum all of this time. How do you explain that? The writing as it relates to what Lana knows is one of the worst things on this show and the reason they do it is so they can have Lana's character do all of these things with Lex this season to shake things up. Things that seem certain to us viewers that Lana should know about is not the case when it comes to the writing.

[xrayvision]

I hope we find out what she knows sometime. Either by someone who cares for her asking her "do you know what Lex has done" or by her admitting to Clark after all this is over that she knew what Lex was about and still went ahead (or didn't know and that's why she was fooled). As far as Lex's romances though, it is obvious she knows.

That's why I really hope Helen Bryce returns during this Lexana arc (she could be used near the later stages when Lana starts realizing what she got into).

[myankskent]

Originally posted by xrayvision
I hope we find out what she knows sometime. Either by someone who cares for her asking her "do you know what Lex has done" or by her admitting to Clark after all this is over that she knew what Lex was about and still went ahead (or didn't know and that's why she was fooled). As far as Lex's romances though, it is obvious she knows.

That's why I really hope Helen Bryce returns during this Lexana arc (she could be used near the later stages when Lana starts realizing what she got into).

I'm not even sure she knows about his romances. She knows that Helen and Lex didn't get married but does she know about how those romances have fallen apart in the past? I'm not so sure. Someone would have to give me a specific quote from an episode that involves Lana where she talks about Lex's failed romantic relationships. Unfortunately that is what we have to do to at least somewhat determine what Lana knows because the writing has been so bad in this area. Another reason why I don't like post reckoning episodes.

[xrayvision]

I assumed it because of Lex being in all the newspapers/media at the time it happened. I'm sure they would run a background on Lex in the articles & news programs that talked about it, but then again, did Lana read them? Who knows. I'm sure they've always been leaving us with a vague idea of what Lana knows of Lex just so that Lexana could have been possible.

[BadToad]

See, here's the thing with Lana. You can blame Clark for not telling her, you can blame Chloe for not telling her, and on and on. But the bottom line, at least for me, does Lana ask? Does Lana ever connect the dots on her own? Does Lana ever look further then the tip of her nose? Did Lana ever think to herself "say, maybe Lex was doing those experiments on Victor?" Or did Lana ever think "those meteor freaks that held me and the Kents hostage were talking about being given this serum, from Level 3 at LuthorCorp, say, I wonder if Lex is involved". Did she ever ask Clark who the friend he was saying good-bye to in Mortal was? I have to assume she did, and Clark told her, because the alternative of her not asking is ludicrous to me. Did Lana ever ask herself about Lex spiriting the spaceship away in Arrival, and what effect that had on the cop in Lockdown who basically went bonkers due to being injured, and having no one believe him?

Where is Lana's responsibility in this to make 2 + 2 = 4 without Clark or Chloe holding her darn hand? Is it just that Lex tells her what she wants to hear, so Lana puts on the dumb blinders? Maybe, since you could say she's done the same with Clark. The big difference there being that we were supposed to believe that she truly and completely loved Clark, and after all, love is blind. Is that supposed to be her excuse with Lex? Because really, from where I'm standing, Lana should not only be hearing bells and whistles going off to warn her about Lex, she should be hearing sirens. And the fact that she isn't is not Clark's fault, or Chloe's fault. JMHO

(I'm sorry, I know I'm supposed to just address Lana in Fragile, but this seemed to be following the thread :))

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
See, here's the thing with Lana. You can blame Clark for not telling her, you can blame Chloe for not telling her, and on and on. But the bottom line, at least for me, does Lana ask? Does Lana ever connect the dots on her own? Does Lana ever look further then the tip of her nose? Did Lana ever think to herself "say, maybe Lex was doing those experiments on Victor?" Or did Lana ever think "those meteor freaks that held me and the Kents hostage were talking about being given this serum, from Level 3 at LuthorCorp, say, I wonder if Lex is involved". Did she ever ask Clark who the friend he was saying good-bye to in Mortal was? I have to assume she did, and Clark told her, because the alternative of her not asking is ludicrous to me. Did Lana ever ask herself about Lex spiriting the spaceship away in Arrival, and what effect that had on the cop in Lockdown who basically went bonkers due to being injured, and having no one believe him?

Where is Lana's responsibility in this to make 2 + 2 = 4 without Clark or Chloe holding her darn hand? Is it just that Lex tells her what she wants to hear, so Lana puts on the dumb blinders? Maybe, since you could say she's done the same with Clark. The big difference there being that we were supposed to believe that she truly and completely loved Clark, and after all, love is blind. Is that supposed to be her excuse with Lex? Because really, from where I'm standing, Lana should not only be hearing bells and whistles going off to warn her about Lex, she should be hearing sirens. And the fact that she isn't is not Clark's fault, or Chloe's fault. JMHO

(I'm sorry, I know I'm supposed to just address Lana in Fragile, but this seemed to be following the thread :))

BadToad, all very good points, points that I cannot argue about. But I just have this to say...according to Tomb, Lana had no idea what happened to Lex in the Asylum, I mean no clue. So if she had no idea about that, something that she should definitely have known about based on your logic in the first paragraph, then how am I to believe that she knows everything about Lex this season?

[All about Clark]

OK, first off, Lana should have so much information by just reading a newspaper, it would talk about Lionel's trial, Lex's Belle Reve stay, Lex's 13 women and murder acquital and so much more. They've made it appear as that she is so self centered she has no idea of anything going on around her which is highly bizarre. Here she's friends with an investigative reporter writing for her own school paper and Lana apparently has never read her friends work. More bizarre.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Originally posted by BadToad
See, here's the thing with Lana. You can blame Clark for not telling her, you can blame Chloe for not telling her, and on and on. But the bottom line, at least for me, does Lana ask? Does Lana ever connect the dots on her own? Does Lana ever look further then the tip of her nose? Did Lana ever think to herself "say, maybe Lex was doing those experiments on Victor?" Or did Lana ever think "those meteor freaks that held me and the Kents hostage were talking about being given this serum, from Level 3 at LuthorCorp, say, I wonder if Lex is involved". Did she ever ask Clark who the friend he was saying good-bye to in Mortal was? I have to assume she did, and Clark told her, because the alternative of her not asking is ludicrous to me. Did Lana ever ask herself about Lex spiriting the spaceship away in Arrival, and what effect that had on the cop in Lockdown who basically went bonkers due to being injured, and having no one believe him?

Where is Lana's responsibility in this to make 2 + 2 = 4 without Clark or Chloe holding her darn hand? Is it just that Lex tells her what she wants to hear, so Lana puts on the dumb blinders? Maybe, since you could say she's done the same with Clark. The big difference there being that we were supposed to believe that she truly and completely loved Clark, and after all, love is blind. Is that supposed to be her excuse with Lex? Because really, from where I'm standing, Lana should not only be hearing bells and whistles going off to warn her about Lex, she should be hearing sirens. And the fact that she isn't is not Clark's fault, or Chloe's fault. JMHO

Thank you. I've been saying the exact same thing the whole time. Great post. :)

[HalJordan4184]

Essentially, it's bad writing. Lana should know about all of these things,a nd she doesn't, only because they needed it that way for the plot to go forward. The down side to that, is that Lana comes off looking retarded.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
OK, first off, Lana should have so much information by just reading a newspaper, it would talk about Lionel's trial, Lex's Belle Reve stay, Lex's 13 women and murder acquital and so much more. They've made it appear as that she is so self centered she has no idea of anything going on around her which is highly bizarre. Here she's friends with an investigative reporter writing for her own school paper and Lana apparently has never read her friends work. More bizarre.

Yes, but sometimes you have to just come to the realization that the writing is awful on this show at times. I don't think TPTB are intentionally trying to make Lana stupid, or any other character for that matter. It's just that they have these ideas that they want to follow through on and they totally forget about what they have written in prior seasons or prior episodes. That's the big problem right now with the direction of the show. If you spend the time to write good stories, forgetting about the fact that they happened does not go over well with the audience. To me, Lana's character and Chloe's character are on two opposite sides of the spectrum. You have Lana who appears that she can't count to three because she is unaware of so much and you have Chloe who can do just about anything that she is called upon for. Lana and Chloe are the two extremes. From my standpoint, and this is somewhat off topic, Chloe being able to solve all of these problems doesn't make her a better character than Lana. They are both extremely unrealistic characters on this show and the writers are to blame for it.

[SnarkMasterJ]

If we're all prepared to just dismiss all the potholes in the Smallville character mythology as bad writing, there isn't really any reason to have about 95% of the threads on this forum. The point is that, with what we're given, we discuss. Wishing that the writing was better isn't going to change what the writers have presented to us on the show.

I don't deny that the writing sucks, but on the subject of debate and discussion, it's a crutch and a cop-out.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
If we're all prepared to just dismiss all the potholes in the Smallville character mythology as bad writing, there isn't really any reason to have about 95% of the threads on this forum. The point is that, with what we're given, we discuss. Wishing that the writing was better isn't going to change what the writers have presented to us on the show.

I don't deny that the writing sucks, but on the subject of debate and discussion, it's a crutch and a cop-out.

We're not dismissing the plotholes, but in the case of Lana's character, there is nothing to debate. She clearly doesn't know about Lex because the writers have chosen to ignore everything that has happened in the past. The tomb example is proof of it, she never knew what happened to Lex in the Asylum during season 3. So now you can take all of the other things that were never directly said to Lana and assume that she has no knowledge of it. I'm sorry, but when the writing is bad, sometimes you can't debate on certain things because the debate will always come back to bad writing. However, this is not the case for 95 % of the things on this show.

[dhacker615]

Originally posted by myankskent
We're not dismissing the plotholes, but in the case of Lana's character, there is nothing to debate. She clearly doesn't know about Lex because the writers have chosen to ignore everything that has happened in the past. The tomb example is proof of it, she never knew what happened to Lex in the Asylum during season 3. So now you can take all of the other things that were never directly said to Lana and assume that she has no knowledge of it. I'm sorry, but when the writing is bad, sometimes you can't debate on certain things because the debate will always come back to bad writing. However, this is not the case for 95 % of the things on this show.

Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but didn't Lana get hurt hiding Lex in the barn during the whole mental illness plot? How on Earth could she not know that he was in an asylum?

There is bad writting and the there is BAD WRITTING. The Lexana arc is an example of the later.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Originally posted by myankskent
We're not dismissing the plotholes, but in the case of Lana's character, there is nothing to debate. She clearly doesn't know about Lex because the writers have chosen to ignore everything that has happened in the past. The tomb example is proof of it, she never knew what happened to Lex in the Asylum during season 3. So now you can take all of the other things that were never directly said to Lana and assume that she has no knowledge of it. I'm sorry, but when the writing is bad, sometimes you can't debate on certain things because the debate will always come back to bad writing. However, this is not the case for 95 % of the things on this show.

Like you said -- taking "all the other things that were never directly said to Lana" and saying she knows nothing about them is an assumption.

Saying there's nothing to debate just because you think that it's clear that Lana doesn't and can't know certain things about Lex is also a gargantuan leap in judgment.

And as I've already said, I don't think Lana's character is written to be unaware. I think they've intentionally shown that she actively chooses to ignore what she knows about Lex based on her current situation -- she's vulnerable, naive, untrusting, etc. She wants to believe the best about Lex because she doesn't feel like she has anything else to believe in.

Personally, it sounds like a better reason than relying on the fact the writing is always bad. It is. And given the show's track record, it will be so for a very long time. Like I said, I completely agree with that.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by dhacker615
Maybe I am not remembering correctly, but didn't Lana get hurt hiding Lex in the barn during the whole mental illness plot? How on Earth could she not know that he was in an asylum?

There is bad writting and the there is BAD WRITTING. The Lexana arc is an example of the later.

No, Lana knew that Lex was in an asylum but when she went to him in Tomb for help about Chloe, she thought that the Asylum helped Lex. She apparently didn't have any idea about Lionel keeping him in there and frying his brain to bits so he forgot about Lionel killing his parents. Now how she doesn't know about that is beyond me.


Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Like you said -- taking "all the other things that were never directly said to Lana" and saying she knows nothing about them is an assumption.

Saying there's nothing to debate just because you think that it's clear that Lana doesn't and can't know certain things about Lex is also a gargantuan leap in judgment.

And as I've already said, I don't think Lana's character is written to be unaware. I think they've intentionally shown that she actively chooses to ignore what she knows about Lex based on her current situation -- she's vulnerable, naive, untrusting, etc. She wants to believe the best about Lex because she doesn't feel like she has anything else to believe in.

Personally, it sounds like a better reason than relying on the fact the writing is always bad. It is. And given the show's track record, it will be so for a very long time. Like I said, I completely agree with that.

Then how do you explain the fact that Lana had no idea why Lex was put into the asylum during season 3? Plus, if Lana knew what Lex did to Aquaman and the extent to what Lex has gone through to get answers about Clark, then why does she keep saying that Lex is a good person? Face it, she doesn't know because the writers need to make this lexana storyline somewhat believable. That's the only explanation unless you want to say that Lana suffers from memory loss, which you can say if it makes you happy.

[HalJordan4184]

The problem with this, is that their attempts to make Lexana believable, have resulted in the most unbelievable and rediculous stories and situations. Making something somewhat believeable, doesn't work, if it comes out making your character appear mentally challenged.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
The problem with this, is that their attempts to make Lexana believable, have resulted in the most unbelievable and rediculous stories and situations. Making something somewhat believeable, doesn't work, if it comes out making your character appear mentally challenged.

Someone finally gets the point. Thank you.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I never got that point from your posts, so I guess I couldn't be expected to get it until now.

And I never said that Lana suffered from memory loss. I never said it. Not once. This is what I said:


I don't think Lana's character is written to be unaware. I think they've intentionally shown that she actively chooses to ignore what she knows about Lex based on her current situation -- she's vulnerable, naive, untrusting, etc. She wants to believe the best about Lex because she doesn't feel like she has anything else to believe in.

If you're going to quote a whole post, you should respond accordingly to all of it.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
I never got that point from your posts, so I guess I couldn't be expected to get it until now.

And I never said that Lana suffered from memory loss. I never said it. Not once. This is what I said:



If you're going to quote a whole post, you should respond accordingly to all of it.

I never told you that is what you said. That is what I said based on my reasoning from what we have seen with Lana's character. She clearly has memory loss if she doesn't remember those things. Proof of that she doesn't remember is the fact that she didn't know about Lex in the asylum. What I am really doing here is giving you a somewhat logical explanation because you have proclaimed that you don't want everything blamed on the bad writing.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I took what you said wrong, and I apologize.

But the explanation you presented wasn't logical, somewhat or otherwise. It was bifurcatious, which is a logical fallacy. You said either I accept that Lana doesn't know anything about Lex solely because she didn't know about his experience in the asylum or I accept that Lana has memory loss.

If I was supposed to accept either of these arguments, it would follow that you might have to accept that Lana knows enough without having every sordid detail of Lex's troubled life spelled out for her and just chooses to ignore it.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
I took what you said wrong, and I apologize.

But the explanation you presented wasn't logical, somewhat or otherwise. It was bifurcatious, which is a logical fallacy. You said either I accept that Lana doesn't know anything about Lex solely because she didn't know about his experience in the asylum or I accept that Lana has memory loss.

If I was supposed to accept either of these arguments, it would follow that you might have to accept that Lana knows enough without having every sordid detail of Lex's troubled life spelled out for her and just chooses to ignore it.

The asylum example I was using only to show that there are things that Lana should definitely be aware of and yet she doesn't. So if such things do exist, whether it has to do with bad writing, memory loss, or whatever, then it is possible that she doesn't know how bad Lex is. That was the only point that I was trying to get across.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Ah, I see. The way you were phrasing the example and continually returning to it kind of seemed like that was the only thing you were basing your argument on.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, Lex might've even eluded to his experience at the asylum in a positive light in her presence. And at the time it happened, he believed it did him good. So it almost seems like, whether she heard anything from Clark or Chloe or anyone else, she would've believed Lex over them anyway, because she heard it from his own mouth, seeing how they write Lana's character, that is.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Ah, I see. The way you were phrasing the example and continually returning to it kind of seemed like that was the only thing you were basing your argument on.

But, correct me if I'm wrong, Lex might've even eluded to his experience at the asylum in a positive light in her presence. And at the time it happened, he believed it did him good. So it almost seems like, whether she heard anything from Clark or Chloe or anyone else, she would've believed Lex over them anyway, because she heard it from his own mouth, seeing how they write Lana's character, that is.

I suppose, but Lionel went to jail because of what Lex knew about him and that was all related to the asylum. I think Lana only knows that Lex had the history of mental problems and that is why he was put in the Asylum. In memoria, Lana found Lex screaming outside the mansion about Jullian, then she went to tell Clark about it because she thought that he was having another psychotic break. She clearly didn't know that Lionel put him in there when he didn't need to be in there. Remember also that Clark testified against Lionel in Covenant and he was brought in because he told Lex that he would tell everyone what he witnessed in the asylum. So again, how does Lana not know about this in Tomb? Clark's testimony must've been mentioned in the papers so there is no reason for Lana to not know about Lex's asylum visit at that point, and yet she doesn't somehow.

And I apologize for not making my point clearer before. It's hard when you are typing on message boards. Sometimes you just can't get your point across without actually speaking to the other person. There are too many misunderstandings.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Yeah...

But as obvious as something of that nature seems, Lana was even willing to deny her feelings for Lex to Chloe's face because she didn't want to be wrong. Who's to say what other things she'd be willing to deny for the sake of her ego.


ETA: Apology accepted. As you saw, I was guilty of the same misdeed. ;)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Yeah...

But as obvious as something of that nature seems, Lana was even willing to deny her feelings for Lex to Chloe's face because she didn't want to be wrong. Who's to say what other things she'd be willing to deny for the sake of her ego.

True, that part was ridiculous and it does show that Lana is imbalanced if she doesn't have an agenda to get close to Lex.

[LastFatherOfKrypton]

Lana:

A woman searching for perfection, truth, love and security.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by LastFatherOfKrypton
Lana:

A woman searching for perfection, truth, love and security.

Four things that no person can find, especially at the age of 17.

[LastFatherOfKrypton]

To each his opinion about Lana.

[mobiusklein]

She's not 17, she's at least 19.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by mobiusklein
She's not 17, she's at least 19.

No, she's probably 18. She's still a freshman in college remember.

[All about Clark]

I think the comment Lana made in Cyborg is important, she said "Lex has done things in the past I don't like, but I don't think he has anything to do with this, he's different". That one statement says alot. It says that Lana is aware of some of things Lex has done wrong, but her need for a guy and her need to figure out what is happening with the spaceship and Fine is more important. The comment about the asylum clearly indicates she does not have all the info, but she has enough info to be weary of Lex. But because he risked his life for her in Lockdown, she chooses to ignore the bad stuff she knows.

I'll say this again, she chooses to ignore the bad stuff she knows.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
I think the comment Lana made in Cyborg is important, she said "Lex has done things in the past I don't like, but I don't think he has anything to do with this, he's different". That one statement says alot. It says that Lana is aware of some of things Lex has done wrong, but her need for a guy and her need to figure out what is happening with the spaceship and Fine is more important. The comment about the asylum clearly indicates she does not have all the info, but she has enough info to be weary of Lex. But because he risked his life for her in Lockdown, she chooses to ignore the bad stuff she knows.

I'll say this again, she chooses to ignore the bad stuff she knows.

You make it sound like anyone who does something wrong in the past isn't worth being friends with at the present. I think it just proves that she doesn't know about the real dangerous stuff that Lex has done, she only knows about the smaller things that don't prove that Lex is a criminal.

[mobiusklein]

In S4, they moved up her birthday to make her legal. Remember AlMiles squeeing about her being legal?

[myankskent]

Originally posted by mobiusklein
In S4, they moved up her birthday to make her legal. Remember AlMiles squeeing about her being legal?

I don't remember that. I was just going by her being a freshman in college, but if AlMiles changed that, then so be it.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by myankskent
You make it sound like anyone who does something wrong in the past isn't worth being friends with at the present. I think it just proves that she doesn't know about the real dangerous stuff that Lex has done, she only knows about the smaller things that don't prove that Lex is a criminal.

You're right. First she knows his past is ugly (Zero), coupled with more things she knows of, yes, she's stupid to get involved with him romantically knowing what she does know. Especially his 13 women in bold letters in the newpaper. I certainly wouldn't come near him, knowing his past is bad, his recent present is bad, how could his future be better than bad. You'd have to be asking for trouble to get involved with him, regardless if he's dangerous or not.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
You're right. First she knows his past is ugly (Zero), coupled with more things she knows of, yes, she's stupid to get involved with him romantically knowing what she does know. Especially his 13 women in bold letters in the newpaper. I certainly wouldn't come near him, knowing his past is bad, his recent present is bad, how could his future be better than bad. You'd have to be asking for trouble to get involved with him, regardless if he's dangerous or not.

She's stupid to get involved with him romantically, but not to still be friends with him. This is why Lexana doesn't make sense. But unfortunately everybody knows that Lex becomes one of the most evil character in the world, so just because we know it doesn't mean that Lana should know that his future will be bad. Even Clark didn't perceive Lex that way until this season and lets face it, Clark knows a lot more about Lex than Lana and he's seen the darker sides of Lex as well.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by myankskent
She's stupid to get involved with him romantically, but not to still be friends with him. This is why Lexana doesn't make sense. But unfortunately everybody knows that Lex becomes one of the most evil character in the world, so just because we know it doesn't mean that Lana should know that his future will be bad. Even Clark didn't perceive Lex that way until this season and lets face it, Clark knows a lot more about Lex than Lana and he's seen the darker sides of Lex as well.

My comment was based on his past, not what I know of his future, you should read my posts more clearly.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by mobiusklein
In S4, they moved up her birthday to make her legal. Remember AlMiles squeeing about her being legal?
You're right -- her birthday was episode 7 in Season 1 (Craving) but it was the 3rd episode of Season 4, which was Facade. She was 18 on that birthday, so she's now 19.

I think she knows enough about Lex to realize that getting involved with him is risky. Maybe she thinks she's the one who will change him -- some women think that way. Maybe she thinks he's never met the right woman. Maybe she finds his shady past intriguing and fascinating. I'm just going to re-evaluate who I think Lana is if she's genuinely attracted to Lex.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville

I'm with those who think Lana should know better than to get involved with Lex, unless she finds his bad behavior attractive in some way. She knows enough about him.

I think a lot of people take this stance because every other character on the show knows that he is bad, however, every other person on this show knows about Clark's secret and what a threat Lex could be as he continues his investigation on Clark. If Clark's big secret was that he was gay, well then Lex wouldn't be a threat, but I really do think you need to know the secret as well in order to put things into perspective about Lex. After all, why did Clark get so upset with Lex? It was because he kept a secret room on Clark which made Clark not trust him. No other characters are aware of this unless they know Clark's secret.

[dhacker615]

Originally posted by myankskent
No, she's probably 18. She's still a freshman in college remember.
My best guesses on the intended ages are:
Clark, Lana, Chloe + Pete: 18-19 years old
Lois: 19-20 years old
Lex: 25-26 years old

[Watching Smallville]

Lana is 19. Clark is 18.

Lex is 7 years older than Clark = 25. His birthday isn't until the spring, I think. (I'm just going by Memoria. It might be a different time of year.)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
No, I'm going by what's public knowledge about Lex, and the times when he's done things that Lana didn't like -- in Onyx, in Zero, in Reckoning. The stories about him in Bound were in the paper. She was mauled by a horse because of Lex. Lex's wife disappeared -- doesn't Lana wonder what happened to her?

I think Lana should know that Lex is a risky move.

From a relationship standpoint, I agree, but not from a friends standpoint. Clark went through 4 years of constant confrontations with Lex with him investigating him and in season 5, he finally had enough. You can't expect Lana to be in that same place, she was never exposed to as much as Clark has over the years. While Clark was having fights with him over the car accident, Lana was given the talon back by Lex with an occasional episode where one of them were under the influence of some kind of drug or had mental problems that caused problems between them.

[All about Clark]

You just explained why it didn't make sense for Lana to visit Lex after her engagement to Clark. Lana knowing the secret and about Lex investigating Clark and going to Lex is something no one else who knows about Clark would do.

Maybe Lana just needs a bad boy.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
I think a lot of people take this stance because every other character on the show knows that he is bad, however, every other person on this show knows about Clark's secret and what a threat Lex could be as he continues his investigation on Clark. If Clark's big secret was that he was gay, well then Lex wouldn't be a threat, but I really do think you need to know the secret as well in order to put things into perspective about Lex. After all, why did Clark get so upset with Lex? It was because he kept a secret room on Clark which made Clark not trust him. No other characters are aware of this unless they know Clark's secret.
No, I'm going by what's public knowledge about Lex, and the times when he's done things that Lana didn't like -- in Onyx, in Zero, in Reckoning. The stories about him in Bound were in the paper. She was mauled by a horse because of Lex. Lex's wife disappeared -- doesn't Lana wonder what happened to her?

I think Lana should know that Lex is a risky move.

[LastFatherOfKrypton]

I myself think Lana should know that Lex is risky.

But that look of "adoration/admiration" in her eyes in that last scene in 'Void' when they were discusing their "Flatline" experiences and Lex lied and told her his mother was proud of the man he was becoming.

When Lana said she should be, you could see the smile and twinkle in her eyes as she gazed at Lex!

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
From a relationship standpoint, I agree, but not from a friends standpoint. Clark went through 4 years of constant confrontations with Lex with him investigating him and in season 5, he finally had enough. You can't expect Lana to be in that same place, she was never exposed to as much as Clark has over the years. While Clark was having fights with him over the car accident, Lana was given the talon back by Lex with an occasional episode where one of them were under the influence of some kind of drug or had mental problems that caused problems between them.
Friends, maybe. I agree that's different.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
You just explained why it didn't make sense for Lana to visit Lex after her engagement to Clark. Lana knowing the secret and about Lex investigating Clark and going to Lex is something no one else who knows about Clark would do.

Maybe Lana just needs a bad boy.

So Lana was told about the meteor shower by Clark in Reckoning and how Lex was always suspicious about clark since that car accident? She was told about the secret room that Lex had on Clark for all of those years? Did this happen in Reckoning or should we just assume this happened offscreen to help prove your point?

You have to admit, with Chloe, she came to the realization that Lex was dangerous in Blank when Clark lost his memory. She understood that Lex was a threat, just go to the scenes where she talked to Clark, she came to that realization in those scenes. When did Lana have the chance to come to this realization when Lex wasn't mentioned once in the scene between her and Clark in Reckoning.

[Watching Smallville]

I think Chloe came to that conclusion in Bound, working on the investigation and the diamond earring thing with Clark. Remember Lex lied to Clark about his affairs, and Chloe told him about all the women in the paper. She may have had suspicions before then -- I don't remember S4 that well right now.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I think Chloe came to that conclusion in Bound, working on the investigation and the diamond earring thing with Clark. Remember Lex lied to Clark about his affairs, and Chloe told him about all the women in the paper. She may have had suspicions before then -- I don't remember S4 that well right now.

I think you're right. It is clear that she definitely knew by Scare since she was downright angry at what Lex & Luthorcorp did in that episode.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I think Chloe came to that conclusion in Bound, working on the investigation and the diamond earring thing with Clark. Remember Lex lied to Clark about his affairs, and Chloe told him about all the women in the paper. She may have had suspicions before then -- I don't remember S4 that well right now.

Yeah, Clark got a lead from Lionel to help out Lex, then Chloe handed the paper to Clark, who hadn't seen the paper yet, saying that they interviewed 13 women that Lex had dated. But of course Lana was never a part of this storyline and she never helped Chloe and Clark with the matter. So basically, as a viewer, you have to decide whether or not she found out about this offscreen.

[Watching Smallville]

I just looked at the eps. There was also Scare, where LuthorCorp was responsible for the toxin that got into the air. Lex's rep took a real beating in Season 4 -- deservedly so -- but I think anyone paying attention to Lex and LuthorCorp would come to the conclusion that Lex is not a very trustworthy person.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I just looked at the eps. There was also Scare, where LuthorCorp was responsible for the toxin that got into the air. Lex's rep took a real beating in Season 4 -- deservedly so -- but I think anyone paying attention to Lex and LuthorCorp would come to the conclusion that Lex is not a very trustworthy person.

And yet at the end of that episode, Lex injected himself with the serum to test to see if it worked and Lex was brought out of the coma. Then Clark looked at Lex and saw good in him for putting his life on the line to try and save everyone. Again, if Clark still had faith in Lex at this point, how come he's not being ripped? After all, he knows more about the devious Lex than anyone over the years.

[All about Clark]

You clearly are not reading what I'm saying. Lana knew from Hidden that Lex was investigating Clark. Clark didn't need to tell her anything on that subject.

Lana knew about how Clark felt about Lex in Lockdown. Therefore, she should not have gone to Lex in Reckoning knowing Clark's secret and Clark's distrust and dislike for Lex with all that new knowledge she had that she knew Lex wanted. I call it disloyal to a degree and stupid and nobody else knowing Clark's secret would have done that. She didn't need to know that Lex was dangerous, it was about the feelings of the man she was going to marry.

[xrayvision]

Clark did, but Chloe didn't. Once again, it shows how Chloe was better at picking up the true character of Lex than anyone else on the show (except for Jonathan who always had his doubts).

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
And yet at the end of that episode, Lex injected himself with the serum to test to see if it worked and Lex was brought out of the coma. Then Clark looked at Lex and saw good in him for putting his life on the line to try and save everyone. Again, if Clark still had faith in Lex at this point, how come he's not being ripped? After all, he knows more about the devious Lex than anyone over the years.
You mean why didn't Clark get criticized for being Lex's friend after Scare? I think Clark started distancing himself at Bound. So, Scare, which was after Bound, was kind of wash. The toxin was LuthorCorp's fault -- Lex injected himself. The bad and the good kind of canceled each other out. Then we had Krypto, where LuthorCorp is doing experiments on dogs, and that alienated Clark further. I think their friendship really came to an end in Season 4. Season 5 was just the grand finale.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by All about Clark
You clearly are not reading what I'm saying. Lana knew from Hidden that Lex was investigating Clark. Clark didn't need to tell her anything on that subject.

Lana knew about how Clark felt about Lex in Lockdown. Therefore, she should not have gone to Lex in Reckoning knowing Clark's secret and Clark's distrust and dislike for Lex with all that new knowledge she had that she knew Lex wanted. I call it disloyal to a degree and stupid and nobody else knowing Clark's secret would have done that. She didn't need to know that Lex was dangerous, it was about the feelings of the man she was going to marry.

She knew that a friend did it to Clark, did Clark ever tell her that it was Lex? Come on, you can't assume things on a tv show. The most logical things to the viewer are not always followed through on the tv show. How about this....Lana saw Clark die in the hospital in hidden. She later goes to the kent farm to see Clark all burned up with holes in his clothes. If you look at the situation with a brain, Lana would have a million questions for Clark and he wouldn't be able to answer them without telling her the truth. Instead, she dismisses the whole thing, of course it was never shown onscreen how much she interrogated Clark at that point. So she stole the medical files to prove to herself and Lex that Clark was normal. Bad move, but one I guess she had to make after seeing Clark like that. But still, how you can just let that go without demanding the truth is beyond me. Again, this is a tv show, you can't use realistic logic to make your point. That's why whenever I don't see something with my own eyes on the show, I assume it never happened no matter how ridiculous it is that a character has no knowledge of something.

Oh and by the way, this isn't just the case with Smallville. I watch Lost and there are so many things on that show that is ridiculous with characters not knowing things that happened on the island, and pivotal things. So if a high quality show like Lost makes these kinds of mistakes, Smallville certainly does it as well.

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
You mean why didn't Clark get criticized for being Lex's friend after Scare? I think Clark started distancing himself at Bound. So, Scare, which was after Bound, was kind of wash. The toxin was LuthorCorp's fault -- Lex injected himself. The bad and the good kind of canceled each other out. Then we had Krypto, where LuthorCorp is doing experiments on dogs, and that alienated Clark further. I think their friendship really came to an end in Season 4. Season 5 was just the grand finale.

But he still saw Lex as a good guy at the end of scare. It wasn't until the start of season 5 where he really turned away from him. So why does Clark get to give him 5,000 chances over the years before he decides he's not worth being a friend and Lana can't, especially given the fact that Clark has had many more confrontations with Lex and many more observances of Lex's dark side than Lana had.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
But he still saw Lex as a good guy at the end of scare. It wasn't until the start of season 5 where he really turned away from him. So why does Clark get to give him 5,000 chances over the years before he decides he's not worth being a friend and Lana can't, especially given the fact that Clark has had many more confrontations with Lex and many more observances of Lex's dark side than Lana had.
Right, that's why I say Scare is kind of a wash. Good and bad from Lex in that ep. But Krypto was bad. Finding the stones w/ Kryptonite in Lex's vault was bad. Bound was bad. Blank was bad. I don't think Clark had good feelings about Lex at the beginning of Season 5. They talked about trying to get a new start, but IMO, the friendship was already over. Mortal just sealed the deal.

I think Clark gets a break because of the 4-year history, where Lex was so ambiguous. I've never seen Lex as good, I've always seen him as manipulative. But from Clark's point of view, he might have seemed like a friend.

I guess, from Lana's point of view, Lex may seem like a friend, too. The difference is that she's 19, where Clark was 14 when he first became friends w/ Lex, and grew smart enough by the time he was 18 to know he wasn't a real friend. I think Lana has enough info at this point -- from the papers, from her own interactions with Lex -- without being told anything else by Clark or Chloe, precisely because she is 19. She's not a child any more. She should be able to draw the conclusion that Lex is risky. Maybe she thinks the risk is worth it. But she can't be blind to the fact that he has a dark side. She said it herself in Cyborg.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by myankskent
She knew that a friend did it to Clark, did Clark ever tell her that it was Lex? Come on, you can't assume things on a tv show. The most logical things to the viewer are not always followed through on the tv show. How about this....Lana saw Clark die in the hospital in hidden. She later goes to the kent farm to see Clark all burned up with holes in his clothes. If you look at the situation with a brain, Lana would have a million questions for Clark and he wouldn't be able to answer them without telling her the truth. Instead, she dismisses the whole thing, of course it was never shown onscreen how much she interrogated Clark at that point. So she stole the medical files to prove to herself and Lex that Clark was normal. Bad move, but one I guess she had to make after seeing Clark like that. But still, how you can just let that go without demanding the truth is beyond me. Again, this is a tv show, you can't use realistic logic to make your point. That's why whenever I don't see something with my own eyes on the show, I assume it never happened no matter how ridiculous it is that a character has no knowledge of something.

I'm going to stop communicating with you because you don't read what I've said. Everything I've said in my last post was factual. Chloe and Lana talked in Lockdown about Clark's feelings about Lex. Lana knew in Hidden that Lex asked for Clark's files to further investigate him.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Right, that's why I say Scare is kind of a wash. Good and bad from Lex in that ep. But Krypto was bad. Finding the stones w/ Kryptonite in Lex's vault was bad. Bound was bad. Blank was bad. I don't think Clark had good feelings about Lex at the beginning of Season 5. They talked about trying to get a new start, but IMO, the friendship was already over. Mortal just sealed the deal.

I think Clark gets a break because of the 4-year history, where Lex was so ambiguous. I've never seen Lex as good, I've always seen him as manipulative. But from Clark's point of view, he might have seemed like a friend.

I guess, from Lana's point of view, Lex may seem like a friend, too. The difference is that she's 19, where Clark was 14 when he first became friends w/ Lex, and grew smart enough by the time he was 18 to know he wasn't a real friend. I think Lana has enough info at this point -- from the papers, from her own interactions with Lex -- without being told anything else by Clark or Chloe, precisely because she is 19. She's not a child any more. She should be able to draw the conclusion that Lex is risky. Maybe she thinks the risk is worth it. But she can't be blind to the fact that he has a dark side. She said it herself in Cyborg.

Well to me, it seems that people expect Lana to realize things this season because Clark has come to that realization. Prior to this season, Clark was always close to Lex, even after he found out about the room in season 3, Clark still considered Lex a friend. I see it as Lana being her own person and that means that she isn't in the same place as Clark when it comes to Lex. Clark had enough exposure over the years, exposure that Lana never had. Plus it is no secret that Lana was never told the extent to why Clark and lex were at odds, she said it herself that whenever she brings it up, he always changes the subject like what he did with the spaceship. Not a great move by Clark if you want someone to believe you.


Originally posted by All about Clark
I'm going to stop communicating with you because you don't read what I've said. Everything I've said in my last post was factual. Chloe and Lana talked in Lockdown about Clark's feelings about Lex. Lana knew in Hidden that Lex asked for Clark's files to further investigate him.

Ok, great. Did she also know that Lex set Clark up with those meteor freaks? Is that factual? Was it ever specifically mentioned? That's what I'm talking about, one instance of Lex trying to get files on Clark equals the knowledge that Clark has about Lex, I guess that makes sense.:\

Or to better word it, Clark knew about the meteor freaks that Lex sent out after him and Lana knew that Lex tried to get files on Clark. I'm sorry, I don't consider that the same thing, especially since Lana stole the files, she would have no right to tell Lex off about that considering she ended up doing the same thing.

I'm done for now, if you want to respond, I'll reply after tonight's fresh episode.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
Well to me, it seems that people expect Lana to realize things this season because Clark has come to that realization. Prior to this season, Clark was always close to Lex, even after he found out about the room in season 3, Clark still considered Lex a friend. I see it as Lana being her own person and that means that she isn't in the same place as Clark when it comes to Lex. Clark had enough exposure over the years, exposure that Lana never had. Plus it is no secret that Lana was never told the extent to why Clark and lex were at odds, she said it herself that whenever she brings it up, he always changes the subject like what he did with the spaceship. Not a great move by Clark if you want someone to believe you.
I'm just thinking about what she said in Cyborg. Lex has done things she doesn't like. I'm not comparing her to Clark. She's not Clark. Her experiences with Lex are different from Clark's. I'm thinking about her experiences with Lex, and her own view of Lex. I always thought of Lana as being very critical of people who had shaky ethics. But it seems to me that the shady side of Lex's personality must be interesting to her. Or somehow justified in her eyes. After all, she did bring Lex Clark's medical records. That says a lot about Lex, about Lana, and about their relationship.

[Fly by guy]

The kiss was the perfect reason for me to want to see Lana go back to the Reckoning car crash. They have killed her character that I enjoyed for 5.5 seasons but know I'll just move on to Majorie (Sarah Lancaster) in What About Brian. HOT and conflicted just like Lana. Too early to tell if she is as Lana brain dead(since Splinter).

[sandy]

I try my best to understand what makes Lana do the things she does--and then I realize that it's impossible. She's a self-centered hypocrite with a bad temper tantrum. In S1&S2, you'd think she was the perfect angel, and her character was likeable, but now she's incessantly annoying. I'm sorry, but that kiss made me gag.
I love Clana, but Lana ticks me off. Does that make sense?:p

All I can say is--what are those writers thinking?

[Mistryman]

I loved it when she was crying when she saw clark feeling up the girl in hypnotic. Its about time she got out of her happy little land.

She doesnt actually have things that bad..

1) One of her actual parents is still alive.
2) Lex cleared up the whole Genavive teague thing.
3) Big deal you cant get clark, hes too good for her anyway.
4) She somehow owns a pritty cool ride, (the car she hit cyborg with)
5) Shes at uni, the best time in a persons life (apart from wen having sex)
6) She doent have any major secrets to hide.
7) And shes hot, hot girls have nothing to worry about!!!

[xrayvision]

I think she needs closure or her parents' death (which she has never gotten over). I don't know what happened in the Lexmas timeline from Lex's dream, but when you watch that episode, Lana seems to be the happiest she has ever been on the show. I wish we get to see that again. KK has an incredible smile that we rarely see anymore, and it was great seeing it in that episode.

I really think the best thing is for her to get professional help after Lex is through with her, because she will very likely be very messed up (and I mean much more than after the Clana breakup). I think they should have a scene where we finally witness her putting it behind her and wanting to help others just like she would have been helped by then. This can add some desperately needed progression into her character and revive it with new life.

[Watching Smallville]

I agree, xrayvision, that happy Lana is a very appealing character. TPTB seem to have chosen to take her down a very unhappy path. First she loses Henry Small, then she loses Clark, the she's possessed by a witch, then she loses Jason. Then she's a vampire. Then she loses Clark again. They've turned her into a very troubled person, and I don't see it getting any better if she's involved with Lex.

[xrayvision]

It'll get much worse with him; you just know it. I didn't like how they made her desert Nell & the Sullivans (basically all her friends) by moving to Paris when she hates losing friends. This was bad ad-hoc writing that makes her seem hypocritical.

It's no wonder that fans loved Lana the most during season 1 (when she was the happiest with the exception of Lexmas, which was before all the pressing she started doing about his secret in S2). Like I said, I hope once she's at her lowest (after Lex is thru with her), she gets help and it's all uphill for her.

[Watching Smallville]

When you put it that way, I have a thought. Lana started being unhappy when she fell in love with Clark -- which I think happened in Season 2. They got together, and then, since Season 3, she's had this unrequited thing for him, which I think lasted through Adam and Jason, and is still going on behind Lexana. It makes me think Lana will never be happy again, because she doesn't end up with Clark.

It kind of turns the tables on what I've aways thought. Rather than Lana being the reason for everything Clark does, it's more like Clark is the reason for everything Lana does.

[xrayvision]

Maybe sharing the secret with her once it finally does happen will change this. Do you really think this unrequited thing is going through Lexana? I thought she said it was over forever?

[Watching Smallville]

She says it, but I don't think that's what she feels. She's angry, and she feels rejected, so she says "forever" to give herself some control over the situation and save some of her pride. But look what she does in Void. I think Lexana is a rebound relationship for Lana.

[xrayvision]

Originally posted by Kal-El1978
On another note...I think that Kristin must feel like this in real life cause she will never get Tom. You can see the jealousy in her eyes...I think she really is into Tom. Now she is just reacting to a reality. Ok ok enough .

What makes you think this? How do you tell if the jealousy is acted jealousy for the character or real life jealousy?

[MsKryptonite]

Originally posted by MBCorp
She kept insisting that she had no feelings for Lex and then she kisses him. Okay, I get that they're trying to make Lana look like she's not in her right mind because she's all upset about the breakup, but god! What a confusing mess of a character.

Lana says to Lex I dont want anything to ruin our friendship blah blah but shes standing there all doe eyed and her hair all curled and everything and we all know she's just beggin for it

[Sunny8]

I hope they bring that Brad character on the show from Superman III. He's a drunk and would be perfect for her.


Yeah go Brana!!

Lana: Lex, I would like you to meet my husband, Brad.
Lex: This is who you left me for?
Lana: Yes. By the way, we're having our 8th kid. Can we have some money? Lana Jr. hasn't learned how to pole dance yet, and as you can see, I'm a complete mess and can't get a gig.
Lex: What's the matter, Brad here spent all his money on alcohol?


These are hilarious.:rotfl:I was just watching re-run's of Fragile and Mercy and I found this on the Fragile thread. Too funny!

[Delacroix]

I find it funny, that with all Lana knows Lex has done, including manhandle her, and almost beat her up over that stone, that she ran to him, and somehow trusts him completely.

She's just horribly written as a character.

I have to wholeheartedly agree. It's really a shame too, because there was really quite a bit of potential there in the beginning, especially with her background and the subsequent highschool years. She's just become so completely nonsensical, even to the point of annoyance, at this point. This is not to say Clark is completely without fault either, mind you, but really... setting Clark aside, her character has really been become fubar.

As of this episode, she just went through the roughest break-up of her entire life, resulting in a severe 'drug' addiction which nearly lead to her death, and Clark's death for that matter. All of the sudden she's well enough to not only become romantically involved again, but with Lex Luthor of all people? Is her character supposed to be coming off as completely psychotic, or are the writers just that terrible? I honestly can't tell at this point, but it's really beginning to take value away from the overall show and greater story.

Setting aside her blatant ignorance about Clark and his secrets, she's said multiple times that she is willing to wait for as long as it takes for Clark to come around; but every time she makes that promise, she breaks it almost immediately afterward. Yes, Clark pushed her away--but what else is new? He's pushed her away at least two times prior to this latest push, and it doesn't take any great measure of psychological genius to recognize that he was lying to her when he told her he didn't love her anymore, especially when you consider everything that they've been through together--from Clark saving her life on countless occasions, always being there for her, taking her virginity while give her his, and everything else.

In any case, I could probably stomach all of this, but to have her fall for Lex is just too much of a stretch. After everything that's happened up to this point, regardless of the illusive 'Black Ship partnership' of theirs, it's completely absurd to have her even entertain the notion of romantic involvement with Lex unless she's suffering from a severe chemical imbalance or mental deterioration.

She's really just been reduced to a pawn who seems to get passed around from episode to episode, and it's rather unfortunate. She doesn't seem to show any signs of progressed maturity or character; even Clark with all of his faults has recognizable character development, but she is just like an irrational broken record with no rhyme or reason anymore.