Wil you all stop - Jor-El is NOT Lionel !

[Moz]

Yes Jor-El had him frozen so to speak at the end of last season and the start of this season to use in case of an emergency. That was a 1 time thing. it is possiblt he retained some of the knowledge but actually more likley that Lionel knows he is Kal-el becasue that name has been passed around quite alot this year. ahemm the other Kryptonians at the start of the season were searching for Kal-El , Also lex mentioning it. Not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

Lionel has known Clark was special since he was faking being blind and picked the bullets off the floor. He just after that researched untill he found exactly who Clark was - again wouldn't take a rocket scientist to it together.

This episode was merely Lionel choosing now to reveal it to Clark becasue he truly does care for martha and wants to try and develope a bond with Clark. is Lionel blackmailing martha 50/50 chance I guess - i can't see the benifit to him but who knows.

This is merely HOW Lex turns evil. Lionel starts to try and be a " father " to Clark ( wether Clark responds to him is a different stroy all together ) . Lex sees this and is pushed completley over ! and truly becomes evil ( more than lionel ) and marks Clark as his arch enemy. Again it's pretty obvious this is how it turns out. Yes Clark hating him about a possible Lexanna but i doubt that pushes it . It will be Lionel marking Clark as the son he never had that sends Lex over as Lex whether he has tried to portray it or not has ALWAYS wanted to be loved by his father and never felt he was. To see Lionel show that love to Clark will be all she wrote ! Either the end of this season or he will be the " casualty " next season if this years ending is focused mostly on ZOD which is rumored.

I seriously doubt they would waste THE Lex supervillian turn in the seaosn finally when they already have the " Zod " angle which is already huge.

Anyway please stop the Lionel is Jor-el angle - it just makes no sense for it to be the case at most maybe Jor-el is able to read lionel's mind but has ZERO control over him.

JMO :) :)

[God-Man]

Originally posted by Moz
Yes Jor-El had him frozen so to speak at the end of last season and the start of this season to use in case of an emergency. That was a 1 time thing. it is possiblt he retained some of the knowledge but actually more likley that Lionel knows he is Kal-el becasue that name has been passed around quite alot this year. ahemm the other Kryptonians at the start of the season were searching for Kal-El , Also lex mentioning it. Not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

Lionel has known Clark was special since he was faking being blind and picked the bullets off the floor. He just after that researched untill he found exactly who Clark was - again wouldn't take a rocket scientist to it together.

This episode was merely Lionel choosing now to reveal it to Clark becasue he truly does care for martha and wants to try and develope a bond with Clark. is Lionel blackmailing martha 50/50 chance I guess - i can't see the benifit to him but who knows.

This is merely HOW Lex turns evil. Lionel starts to try and be a " father " to Clark ( wether Clark responds to him is a different stroy all together ) . Lex sees this and is pushed completley over ! and truly becomes evil ( more than lionel ) and marks Clark as his arch enemy. Again it's pretty obvious this is how it turns out. Yes Clark hating him about a possible Lexanna but i doubt that pushes it . It will be Lionel marking Clark as the son he never had that sends Lex over as Lex whether he has tried to portray it or not has ALWAYS wanted to be loved by his father and never felt he was. To see Lionel show that love to Clark will be all she wrote ! Either the end of this season or he will be the " casualty " next season if this years ending is focused mostly on ZOD which is rumored.

I seriously doubt they would waste THE Lex supervillian turn in the seaosn finally when they already have the " Zod " angle which is already huge.

Anyway please stop the Lionel is Jor-el angle - it just makes no sense for it to be the case at most maybe Jor-el is able to read lionel's mind but has ZERO control over him.

JMO :) :)

I completely agree with you about Lionel. I think he has chosen to be good for Martha's sake. I don't think Jor-El is influencing Lionel anymore.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Moz
Yes Jor-El had him frozen so to speak at the end of last season and the start of this season to use in case of an emergency. That was a 1 time thing. it is possiblt he retained some of the knowledge but actually more likley that Lionel knows he is Kal-el becasue that name has been passed around quite alot this year. ahemm the other Kryptonians at the start of the season were searching for Kal-El , Also lex mentioning it. Not difficult to put 2 and 2 together.

Lionel has known Clark was special since he was faking being blind and picked the bullets off the floor. He just after that researched untill he found exactly who Clark was - again wouldn't take a rocket scientist to it together.

This episode was merely Lionel choosing now to reveal it to Clark becasue he truly does care for martha and wants to try and develope a bond with Clark. is Lionel blackmailing martha 50/50 chance I guess - i can't see the benifit to him but who knows.

This is merely HOW Lex turns evil. Lionel starts to try and be a " father " to Clark ( wether Clark responds to him is a different stroy all together ) . Lex sees this and is pushed completley over ! and truly becomes evil ( more than lionel ) and marks Clark as his arch enemy. Again it's pretty obvious this is how it turns out. Yes Clark hating him about a possible Lexanna but i doubt that pushes it . It will be Lionel marking Clark as the son he never had that sends Lex over as Lex whether he has tried to portray it or not has ALWAYS wanted to be loved by his father and never felt he was. To see Lionel show that love to Clark will be all she wrote ! Either the end of this season or he will be the " casualty " next season if this years ending is focused mostly on ZOD which is rumored.

I seriously doubt they would waste THE Lex supervillian turn in the seaosn finally when they already have the " Zod " angle which is already huge.

Anyway please stop the Lionel is Jor-el angle - it just makes no sense for it to be the case at most maybe Jor-el is able to read lionel's mind but has ZERO control over him.

JMO :) :)

If this is all true, then how in the world did Lionel know that Professor Fine could shoot fire from his eyes and run at the speed of light?

[superhippie2000]

your right jor el is not lionel but lionel is jor el.

[fa8362]

"Anyway please stop the Lionel is Jor-el angle"

I can't see why it matters whether people say that or not.

[Moz]

It doesn't matter of course just efvrytimne i see it all the time on here and cannot see it as possibility. again JMO

[creolemommie]

Maybe JorEl speaks through Lionel when he wants to.
Anyway, I don't believe that Lionel was blackmailing Martha. I think he was manipulating her. I think he paid the dude to "appear to blackmail her" so that she would turn to him. He probably hoped that at his first offer she would ask him for the money, and when that didn't happen, he followed her to be her knight in shining armor or Dark Knight as the case may be. :) I think he just wants to be close to her and is manipulating her into trusting him, I don't see him blackmailing her at all.

Thoughts?

[muffinpeddler]

Originally posted by God-Man
I completely agree with you about Lionel. I think he has chosen to be good for Martha's sake. I don't think Jor-El is influencing Lionel anymore.

Like's Martha? Yeah. But good? Don't make me laugh.

[Elite]

Lionel himself would never say that line. Even if he were to keep the secret, he's more likely to say "your secret is safe with me, Martha".
Jor-El is the only one that uses the name Kal-El, and using this name at the end was a way of showing that he is still part of Lionel and looking out for Clark.

[jimmyolsenblues]

stop the Lionel is Jor-el angle - it just makes no sense

Amen brother you are preaching to the choir.

Lionel just has the hots for Martha, and wants to be Clark's step-daddy.

[LuxteK]

JOR-EL IS LIONEL... all you who oppose that has reasonable opinions, but the most likely plot is that JOR-EL is still in lionel. The only confusing part about that is... jor-el wouldnt like martha, lionel has always liked martha, but jor-el kicks in lionel at will

[CallMeClark]

I second that. Lionel is not Jor-El, simple as that. Lionel is a vessel.

[Mr. Spoiler]

Remember in Vengence when Clark saved Lionel, Lionel called him "son". I've never heard Lionel call Lex "son" with the deep fondness that came across for Clark. Lionel wasn't shocked that the chic jumped out the window to escape not to die.

At the same time I don't know if I buy this Jor-El in Lionel. But I think that would be a little corny. But being corny is not beyond the writers, especially the 100th episode.

But it does seem as though the Lionel we know and hate would have just had that guy he paid off .... ki.... well expired. That means this other guy has Clark's secret. Help me out, the only FREE people with Clark's secret are other superheroes. All the others are locked up in jail or the mental hospital. EXCEPT for my man Pete. Which means ..... I GOT IT!!! Lionel only paid the guy off to meet with Ms. Kent. That guy does not know what was on the disc. Then again with these writers who the hell knows. If they can bring Lana back to life just to kill Mr. Kent... shoot friggin knows..

[tomwellingishott]

Agreed. I think Lionel is Lionel and Jor-El is still a Kryptonian God (though he denied it in Reckoning) that lives in the Fortress.

[Reign]

Thanks for this thread. I completely agree with the starter.

Personally, I think it's bad scripting to still use Lionel as a vessel. That purpose was served.

It makes more sense that after all that's happened, that Lionel has been able to put 2 and 2 together. Him knowing the name Kal-El is likely just a remnant in his mind from being able to read Kryptonian, having linked with Jor-El temporarily, and being at the Fortress.

[AverageJoe]

I agree, Lionel is not inhabited by Jor-El and hasn't been since...Hidden was it? I think he's turned good (or less evil at least) 1) because of the whole Transferance shindig and 2) because he loves Martha and hurting Clark by revealing or exploiting his secret would hurt her.
I also very much agree with the Lionel shows the affection he never showed Lex to Clark which sends Lex over the ledge into evil theory. It makes perfect sense in my view.

[SamBanksJLA]

But there is ALWAYS still the possibility that he COULD be inhabited by Jor-El. We have to leave that possibility open

[m042368a]

There are 3 possible ideas that I have regarding Lionel

1) Lionel is still inhabited by Jor-El

2) Lionel has memories from both Clark and Jor-El inhabiting his body, but it just Lionel

3) Lionel is inhabited by, or is being controlled by, Brainiac.

With those in mind, there is one thing that Lionel did which makes me believe that Jor-El is gone, and that he is under the control of someone else. This goes back to his conversation with Chloe in "Solitude" when he told her about Dr. Fine.

A) If Lionel is still inhabited by Jor-El, why would Lionel tell Chloe about Dr. Fine so that she could save Clark at the fortress, instead of just saving Clark himself? Jor-El has been there inside Lionel before.

B) If Lionel has host memories, and is just Lionel, how would he know about Dr. Fine, and what motivation would he have in telling Chloe? Lionel would have had his own people follow fine, and then go to the Fortress himself. The key was already there.

C) If Lionel is being controlled, or is inhabited by some "splinter" of Dr. Fine, it would answer why Jor-El did not simply save Clark at the Fortress. If would also answer why Clark thinks he may have "a bigger problem" with Dr. Fine.

This also raises another question: why tell Chloe? What purpose would there be for Dr. Fine in having Chloe learn that he is an alien, and then have her show up at the fortress to foil his plan to free Zod? Seems like a set up, but I have no idea why.

Either way, I have no idea what is going on. Just thinking outloud.:rotfl:

[xrayvision]

I agree with the thread author. It would really take away from the arc if Jor-El is inside Lionel. I give credit to Lionel for knowing. It makes him so much more mysterious. I think the Jor-El thing was a 1 time deal. It seems like Jor-El probably through the stone chose Lionel since he had been protecting Clark for a while till then. So once all that kryptonian writing was seen going through Lionel's eyes in Commencement, he probably knew all about the evil from deep space (Brainiac, Zod & the kryptonians). It also gave him knowledge of Kal-El. So he probably used his previous knowledge with this and combined that Clark is Kal-El.

The above is what I think if he is a good guy, which is what I'm leaning towards. If he's bad, then check out my 2nd theory in my post:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1886692#post1886692

MB Lionel has been done before. This time I think the MB facade is a front to throw Lex off Clark's trail. I think between being a corporate tycoon and having knowledge of Clark, he will choose the Clark route since he saw what happened when Lex tried to have both. Plus Clark has been out of his way and has helped him many times.

I think the picture that he showed Jonathan could have been of Martha saying that he wants to protect her just like JK did. Who knows, but I don't think it's a still of that video. TPTB have to surprise us again when that is revealed.

[Daphne]

Jor-el is dead and should never had such a big roll in Smallville. It's embarrassing how much power they are giving the dead guy.....
I do not beleive that Lionel has Jor-el in him anymore. I think Lionel likes Martha and sees it as a benefit to himself to try and sneak his way in. I am counting on a smart Martha to keep him at arms length and a strong Clark to beat him bloody if he touches his mom.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Well....In Superman the movie, Jor-el had a big role in developing Superman.

I think what the writers are doing here is pretty neat, I like to see where they are going with this. Weither if the forum starter is right and Jorel and Lionel was a one time thing or not. I am going to keep on watching to find out.

I do agree with you Daphne that Martha is smart and doesnt fall for Lionels "kindness." It would be like the last four years of the MB for nothing. And we all know that Martha is a much smarter business woman now. Hopefully she is the one that is playin' Lionel to find out how much he knows.

[vouge09]

okay I just wish they would clairify for us!

[GooN]

he is too! my mum said so, and she is right about everything ever

[Shadow09]

Originally posted by God-Man
I completely agree with you about Lionel. I think he has chosen to be good for Martha's sake. I don't think Jor-El is influencing Lionel anymore.

I agree, Lionel is being nice to Martha on his own will. Just like any friend would be after they have lost a loved one.

[Smokethatkryptonite]

Lion-el has not been possessed by Jor-el since hidden, nuff said.

[numberonekid]

Lionel is possed by Jor-el still why the hell would he said ''thank you my son'' when CLARK KENT SAVED HIM in TOMB???

think about it.

[Watching Smallville]

He said, "Thank you, son," which is a little different from "Thank you, my son." "Son" can be a general term of endearment -- which in itself is surprising. Makes me think Lionel is still a good guy, but he doesn't seem like Jor-El in this one.

[Smokethatkryptonite]

Excatly what you said. (It's just a term people say it all the time)

[I_am_kal-el_of_krypton]

I really cant believe you dont think lionel is jor-el.
Lets take a look. Yes, jor-el took control of lionels body earlier in the series, but hear what he says, 'a body for me to inhabit whenever i choose'. When clark chose to turn back time jor-el said the universe will balance itself out. This is why lionel was there when Jonathan had his heart attack. Why didnt anyone see lionel in the barn that night? because he was jor-el for that short moment. dont you think that if lionel had turned good he would have helped when jonathan was dying? The reason he picked up the paper at the end was that no one else would find out clarks secret. Just like the reason he paid the security guart off for the disk, Jor-el (lionel) couldnt allow the disk into the open and allow anyone to know clarks secret.
If you really think about it, you'll realise that this makes sense

[McKeznak]

They are definately not the same, i think he just remeber's and cause he now has the hots for martha he wants to protect her son

[sid8810]

i personally think its not jor-el but on the other hand it may be ...its hard to pick but i think jor-el is probably testing martha if she reveals his secret under such pressure

[Indiago Child]

Yeah I think that Lionel cessed to exist once the crystal was activated in his pocket, I think that its not necessarily always Jor-El in his body but I would say that he has more control over Lionel than Lionel does if you know what I mean, on the other hand you could say that Lionel is dead and Jor-El now has his body, this is why he is trying to woe Martha so that he can act as a father figure to Clark, or you could say that he only controls him sometimes when he needs to and the reason that Lionel is tiring to woe Martha is he has always wanted Martha for himself and now that JK is out of the way he is free to do this now.
Either way it’s a bit of a conundrum and one that the PTB will probably play on for quite a while just to keep us guessing.

[sid8810]

Originally posted by Indiago Child
Yeah I think that Lionel cessed to exist once the crystal was activated in his pocket, I think that its not necessarily always Jor-El in his body but I would say that he has more control over Lionel than Lionel does if you know what I mean, on the other hand you could say that Lionel is dead and Jor-El now has his body, this is why he is trying to woe Martha so that he can act as a father figure to Clark, or you could say that he only controls him sometimes when he needs to and the reason that Lionel is tiring to woe Martha is he has always wanted Martha for himself and now that JK is out of the way he is free to do this now.
Either way it’s a bit of a conundrum and one that the PTB will probably play on for quite a while just to keep us guessing.

Thats what i was wondering too, after all he has had this thing for Martha kent, and do you remember when clark saved him from falling out the window and then he said "thank you son" then the camera focused on both of them with the wind blowing . The episode when the latin girl as the vigilante