So he is a friend now?

[GhostRaider]

So Marhta dosen't turn her back on her friends. Is that what she told Lionel? So she considers him a friend even after he has almost killed her son several times and tired to destroy the Kents on several occasions. The dumbification of Martha Kent has started.

[gC27]

yea i totaly agree, why would she trust him!!?? its Lionel F****ing Luthor for god sakes, she knows what hes done in the past, why is she trusting him, someone please list all the things hes done to try to exploit the kents im to annoyed with this to do it myself..............errrg

[OutlawAngel]

Ok Lets see what Lionel has done to the Kents....

After Jonathan helped Lionel with Lex after the meteor shower Lionel set up an adoption for Clark and pretty much used it to cover up getting rid of his own son and used this to threaten Jonathan into betraying the Ross's

He had the scientist dude to torture Clark in a lab in Memoria.

He used a stone of stupidity to change bodies with Clark and left Clark to die in his old body why he went and tormented his family and friends.

He has tried to learn Clark's seceret for most of the series.

Gah it just goes on and on and this is just what he has done to the Kents I mean he is THE MB!!!

[Lana_Lang #1]

I too am seriously angry that Martha called him a friend!

[joeybw]

Because the writers can't think of any other way to make Lana and Martha trust the Luthors other than forcing it lol

Thats how I see it

[sheltiemom]

I prefer to look for the good in people-Jonathan to Martha when she asked to borrow his notes. Perhaps Martha is only trying to hold onto a small peice of Jonathan. We can only hope. I'll be very disappointed if the writters dumb her down!!

[KANE POUND $QUAD]

Lionel is forcing his way through the fragile gate that his Martha Kent.
PLease, Please, Please

[Lionelismy idol]

I don't think there is any way that Martha thinks of Lionel as a friend. I just think that Martha is taking a page out of the Luthor playbook. She's not an idiot, she knows that Lionel has the hots for her.

She's just using him right now. For what, I have no idea, but I think that will be explained further down the road. For the 1st time, someone is going to get the best of Lionel, if that is even Lionel in there, and it's going to be Martha.

Johnathon plays the game, keep your friends close and your enemies far, far away. Martha plays the game, keep your friends close and your enemies closer

[myankskent]

Originally posted by joeybw
Because the writers can't think of any other way to make Lana and Martha trust the Luthors other than forcing it lol

Thats how I see it

This martha thing is far worse than what Lana is doing. At least Lex was good in the past and regardless, Lana hasn't witnessed all of the bad things that Lex has done lately. But Lionel? This guy has shown his true colors to Martha time and time again and yet she now considers him a friend. Is funding the campaign that big of a deal to her?

[jarethmc]

I want to think that because Martha is a grieving widow and oh so very vuneralble that she is hanging on the only way she can, right now. She has a big gaping hole in her life and heart and Lional is taking full advantage of it. Her judgement is impaired and shes a good trusting person. Although I cant convince myself that she would react so trustingly>

[BuZzArD 8012]

I believe the lost of the JK, is messing with her judgement on Lionel. She need's someone to help her, since Clark is hardly around.

[GhostRaider]

Messed up judgement or not after what happend to Clark in Memoria at Lionel's hands would be an unforgivable act to any mother on this planet. I just don't understand why the writers are doing this to her character.

[WangTang]

i notice Lionel only comes around when Clark is not their. Or not even in th same town.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by GhostRaider
Messed up judgement or not after what happend to Clark in Memoria at Lionel's hands would be an unforgivable act to any mother on this planet. I just don't understand why the writers are doing this to her character.

I agree, this is like Lionel killing Clark and then Martha considering him a friend after it. Lionel has done some pretty unforgiveable things, clouded judgement or not, a mother should never forget.

[farmboy20]

he does one nice thing....

we all know the real reason martha called him a friend. it's because she has had her memory wiped and has forgotten certian things.

[OutlawAngel]

*shakes head sadly*

If this is what politicians are like in the state of Kansas then the state is doomed

[Lois Sullivan]

Originally posted by OutlawAngel
He used a stone of stupidity to change bodies with Clark and left Clark to die in his old body why he went and tormented his family and friends.

And that is the reason why Martha trusts him now. Because since that episode Lionel has done absolutely nothing nefarious to the Kent's. Quite the contrary, he even funded Jonathan's campaign. The reason that Clark trusts Lionel, that Martha trusts Lionel is because of the transference. Because of what Clark told his parents afterwards when he saw him again in Bound. Clark was entirely convinced after seeing Lionel for the first time since the transference, that Lionel had been healed both physically and spiritually because of Clark's essence being inside him. Clark told his parents this, he told Chloe that he thinks something happened to Lionel in prison to change him. Jonathan and Chloe was the none believers, Martha believed it to be a miracle, just like Lionel said he thought it was. And ever since that day, everytime Lionel has had interactions with all the Kent's, and with Chloe, and with Lana he's been forthcoming about his actions. That he wants to help them.

I think Lionel truly did change from the transference, and that he truly was intent on helping his own son to change. He tried to do everything he could to prevent Lex from getting his mitts on the three stones, a quest he knew Lex had picked up where'd left off. I think Lionel knew that the stones were somehow connected to Clark, because he knew the caves and the symobls were. I think he'd had his suspicions about Clark being an alien with powers, but when EvilLex turned on him in Onyx, he saw that there was a darkness in him that rivialed even Lionel's old self. Remember what Lionel said to Clark in Bound. "I saw the darkness, the destructive power that had always been inside of me. I see it in Lex now. I have to help him." Lionel saw the full brunt of that darkness when Lex was split in two, and he knew he had to stop Lex from gaining power, either through the stones, or political office, at whatever the cost. He shot Jason because Jason was about to reveal the connection of Clark and the stones. I think Lionel was going to try and collect the stones and give them to Clark. Then he got downloaded with the Kryptonian knowledge, and became a vessel for Jor-El. Ever since he's known everything. All of it.

Thinka bout it, name one time since Transference where Lionel has shown to have an alterior motive when it comes to the Kent's. When it comes to Lex. Ever since Clark and Lionel switched back Lionel has done nothing but try to help Lex get off the path of darkness, and give any info he can to Clark to help Clark on his quest to becoming Superman.

Jor-El isn't inhabiting Lionel anymore. This is Lionel, he may channel his old MB ways sometimes, but never for his own selfish reasons, only to help when he can. A new Lionel was born at the end of Transference, and he's here to stay.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Lois Sullivan
And that is the reason why Martha trusts him now. Because since that episode Lionel has done absolutely nothing nefarious to the Kent's. Quite the contrary, he even funded Jonathan's campaign. The reason that Clark trusts Lionel, that Martha trusts Lionel is because of the transference. Because of what Clark told his parents afterwards when he saw him again in Bound. Clark was entirely convinced after seeing Lionel for the first time since the transference, that Lionel had been healed both physically and spiritually because of Clark's essence being inside him. Clark told his parents this, he told Chloe that he thinks something happened to Lionel in prison to change him. Jonathan and Chloe was the none believers, Martha believed it to be a miracle, just like Lionel said he thought it was. And ever since that day, everytime Lionel has had interactions with all the Kent's, and with Chloe, and with Lana he's been forthcoming about his actions. That he wants to help them.

I think Lionel truly did change from the transference, and that he truly was intent on helping his own son to change. He tried to do everything he could to prevent Lex from getting his mitts on the three stones, a quest he knew Lex had picked up where'd left off. I think Lionel knew that the stones were somehow connected to Clark, because he knew the caves and the symobls were. I think he'd had his suspicions about Clark being an alien with powers, but when EvilLex turned on him in Onyx, he saw that there was a darkness in him that rivialed even Lionel's old self. Remember what Lionel said to Clark in Bound. "I saw the darkness, the destructive power that had always been inside of me. I see it in Lex now. I have to help him." Lionel saw the full brunt of that darkness when Lex was split in two, and he knew he had to stop Lex from gaining power, either through the stones, or political office, at whatever the cost. He shot Jason because Jason was about to reveal the connection of Clark and the stones. I think Lionel was going to try and collect the stones and give them to Clark. Then he got downloaded with the Kryptonian knowledge, and became a vessel for Jor-El. Ever since he's known everything. All of it.

Thinka bout it, name one time since Transference where Lionel has shown to have an alterior motive when it comes to the Kent's. When it comes to Lex. Ever since Clark and Lionel switched back Lionel has done nothing but try to help Lex get off the path of darkness, and give any info he can to Clark to help Clark on his quest to becoming Superman.

Jor-El isn't inhabiting Lionel anymore. This is Lionel, he may channel his old MB ways sometimes, but never for his own selfish reasons, only to help when he can. A new Lionel was born at the end of Transference, and he's here to stay.

I disagree, I think the old Lionel returned when he poisened Jason's mother. Plus, why would he show Jonathan that piece of paper if he was 100 percent good, unless it was all JorEl. And if it was all JorEl, that would put a major strain on Clark and JorEl's relationship. I am getting upset at the fact that Clark never went back to the fortress to discuss Jonathan's death with JorEl. Wouldn't you want to know exactly what happened to your father if someone can provide you with the answer?

[GhostRaider]

So how does that explain his behavior tonight. Because tomight was old school and vintage MB.

[MBCorp]

How do we know that Martha isn't the one playing the MB? I can't imagine that they're dumbing the character down this much. Perhaps she realizes that he's trying to play her so she's turning the tables around on him and pretending to fall into his trap? I'd like to believe that anyway.:\

[sprinter]

Lionel is the master manipulator. Did you see how he worked Martha over this season? Especially tonight. Wow, I can't believe she fell for it.

[MattFoley]

Martha is vulnerable. She has no support and is lonely. Where the heck was Clark supporting/comforting his mother? There was not one scene with them both.

Lionel took advantage of Chloe. Remember he is a pro at deceiving and taking advantage of people and situations.

[ZeoVGM]

Originally posted by MattFoley
Martha is vulnerable. She has no support and is lonely. Where the heck was Clark supporting/comforting his mother? There was not one scene with them both.

Clark was a little busy saving someone's life. :P

[amberdawn]

Martha didnt even tell Clark about it, so how was he supposed to know she was in trouble?

[Lois Sullivan]

Originally posted by myankskent
I disagree, I think the old Lionel returned when he poisened Jason's mother. Plus, why would he show Jonathan that piece of paper if he was 100 percent good, unless it was all JorEl. And if it was all JorEl, that would put a major strain on Clark and JorEl's relationship. I am getting upset at the fact that Clark never went back to the fortress to discuss Jonathan's death with JorEl. Wouldn't you want to know exactly what happened to your father if someone can provide you with the answer?

What he did to Genevieve? You mean poisoning her to get the stone and to warn her to stay away from him and his son? Again, unselfish. Lionel even told Teague "I regard any threat to a Luthor, as a threat against me" then when he poisoned Genevieve, he told her he'd "A trade, you give me the artifact you stole from Bridgette Crosby, and I give you the antidote. Oh, and one more thing. You go near my son, and anything that happens to him, happens to you. Is that understood?" He even warned Lex about Genevieve before he went after her himself. He told him to watch out for Genevieve, and Lex blew him off. So he took matters into his own hands.

As for Jonathan, it was quite clear in that scene that Lionel went to Jonathan to help him. "I don't want a puppet, I want a partner" "a secret we'd both be willing to give our lives to protect" those aren't the words of a blackmailer, or a master manipulator. Those are the words of someone trying to help. Jonathan just didn't like the source those words were coming from, a man who he never trusted for a single moment in his life. Lionel didn't even get up off the floor when Jonathan smacked him down. He just stared up at him. The last time Jonathan hit Lionel, Lionel hit right back. This time he did nothing. He wasn't going there looking for a fight, or to manipulate the Kent's, he was going there to help them.

[jdot]

Originally posted by amberdawn
Martha didnt even tell Clark about it, so how was he supposed to know she was in trouble?

Because he's supposed to be the future Superman and if he doesn't know everything that happens in the world and only ever makes the right choices then he'll never be worthy!!!!! Or something like that.

:rolleyes:

I'm hoping nobody actually believes that, but some posts make me wonder.

It was a bit off not having any Clark/Martha interaction, though. He should have at least had a chat with her about Victor, after all.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Lois Sullivan
What he did to Genevieve? You mean poisoning her to get the stone and to warn her to stay away from him and his son? Again, unselfish. Lionel even told Teague "I regard any threat to a Luthor, as a threat against me" then when he poisoned Genevieve, he told her he'd "A trade, you give me the artifact you stole from Bridgette Crosby, and I give you the antidote. Oh, and one more thing. You go near my son, and anything that happens to him, happens to you. Is that understood?" He even warned Lex about Genevieve before he went after her himself. He told him to watch out for Genevieve, and Lex blew him off. So he took matters into his own hands.

As for Jonathan, it was quite clear in that scene that Lionel went to Jonathan to help him. "I don't want a puppet, I want a partner" "a secret we'd both be willing to give our lives to protect" those aren't the words of a blackmailer, or a master manipulator. Those are the words of someone trying to help. Jonathan just didn't like the source those words were coming from, a man who he never trusted for a single moment in his life. Lionel didn't even get up off the floor when Jonathan smacked him down. He just stared up at him. The last time Jonathan hit Lionel, Lionel hit right back. This time he did nothing. He wasn't going there looking for a fight, or to manipulate the Kent's, he was going there to help them.

Lionel wanted the stone for himself, plain and simple. Of course he didn't want Lex to get it because he doesn't want Lex to become more powerful then him. It's all about power. If Lionel was really good, then why was he willing to kill Lex in Lexmas rather than accepting his crippled son? The good Lionel, as you seem to think, would've been happy just having his son alive and instead he reacted the same way that season 3 Lionel would have. I don't buy that he is good.

[MozartRequiem]

IF Martha really meant what she said, I think that it's just because she's in a very fragile state right now...perhaps not a good thing considering her senate position. Don't get me wrong: I know Martha is a very strong woman, and I think that she could definitely be a great senator, but I think that possibly she feels a tad vulnerable, and although her gut instincts may tell her not to trust Lionel, she may just be clinging on to some hope of having a friend in her life, besides her son. Right now, she feels alone, and needs that kind of comfort.

[simply]

Nah, I think now that Bo's dead, the inner Martha can emerge and finally be a force on this show. Martha's totally playing the MB, and she's up to it. The expression: Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. By calling him a friend, she's paving the way for her to keep him close without raising suspicions.

[Lois Sullivan]

Originally posted by myankskent
Lionel wanted the stone for himself, plain and simple. Of course he didn't want Lex to get it because he doesn't want Lex to become more powerful then him. It's all about power. If Lionel was really good, then why was he willing to kill Lex in Lexmas rather than accepting his crippled son? The good Lionel, as you seem to think, would've been happy just having his son alive and instead he reacted the same way that season 3 Lionel would have. I don't buy that he is good.

Um. No. That stuff about Lexmas was Lex's own interpetation of why Lionel did what he did. The whole "rather die than bare the thought of a cripple as a son" was Lex's own twisted perception of why Lionel went ahead with the surgery. Lionel made the exact same judgement call on the surgery that Lex did back in season 2. The surgery that blinded Lionel. Try again though.

[Ares]

Shes a lonely widow .. She will keep all the guys near .. When that window appears some lonely night she will be able to call Lionel an get it on .. She almost threw the pic of JK in the Fire but she held back cuz she knew the cameras were on.. Shes over him an she wants a nice piece of Lionel Luther..