Lana in this episode

[alm26]

Let me start off by saying that I really enjoyed the episode. I think the acting was very good, especially by Allison, she was so amazing, and the plot was pretty good in my opinion as well. Even so, there was something that I really hated about this episode, and it was, in a word, Lana.

First it would’ve been really nice to see Lana stick up for Clark when Lex was being a total jerk at the dormitory, and the fact that she didn’t believe in Chloe didn’t make her anymore appealing either.

Second of all, it really made me angry when Lana came to Clark at the end of the episode and said that she loved him with all of her heart. This is usually something I’d love to hear her saying to him, but now, after certain events that have happened lately, and the way her relationship with Lex has been going, it does nothing but make me sick. If she loves him so much, why does she continuously go to Lex every time she has a problem? She even said it herself; she should be talking to Clark about the things going on her life, and if she believes that that’s the way it’s supposed to be, again...why does she not follow through with it herself and turn to Lex instead? It just doesn’t make any sense to me. All she does is complain to Clark about the things that he’s doing wrong that are affecting their relationship negatively, mainly trying to have him become aware of it so that he can fix the problem. Like tonight when she mentions that she doesn’t know how to talk to him anymore; that’s just a complaint about something he’s doing wrong , while in reality, it’s kind of her fault for letting that happen; maybe if she stopped talking to Lex, and actually went to talk to Clark once in a while, it wouldn’t be so hard for precious Lana (god forbid things should be hard).
So, back to my point, she’s just as much to blame for the things going wrong between her and Clark, and she needs to realize that already. She needs to work on making their relationship better along with Clark, and not expect him to change and fix things, especially considering she’s doing the same things she doesn’t want Clark to do...keeping secrets. So, basically, I think she needs to get off of Clark’s case, and look at her own self, because then she’d realize she’s doing just as many wrong things as Clark is doing. She needs to admit to the mistakes she’s made and fix them, just like she’s expecting Clark to, and she needs to help Clark make their relationship better. And most importantly, she needs to stop going to and trusting Lex, and start trusting and confiding in the man she supposedly loves with all of her heart.

Honestly, I don’t blame Clark for not saying anything back because right about now, she’d be annoying the hell out of me; it seems like no matter what Clark would do anyway, something is always going to be wrong. And if I were him, I wouldn’t even believe that she loves me either because of the way she treats and acts with Lex. So, for once in my life, I don’t really want there to be clana anymore, at least if it’s going to be like this. Instead, I want Clark to stand up for himself, shut Lana up for once, and say to her “you know what, you have fun with Lex, and don’t worry...I’m sure you’re children will have hair.”

That felt good.

[joeybw]

I'm with you

After all that when she came to Clark with the same "secrets" talk, it really annoyed me and even being a huge Clana fan, I just wanted him to throw her out

[spideyfan]

very well done alm

also i found myself cursing at Lana at one of the last scenes when she came to him...

[prometheus04]

You guys are letting her get to you, lana is a complete nothing. Her roll is fading away.:\

[SmallvilleFanBlue]

I wish the Clark/Lana thing would just die, and both of them move on.. It won't work, it'll just be drama, and the writer's have over-used this plotting and it's been getting old..
Just let them both move on and bring on something new :)

[Cookie 28]

alm that was great. Couldn't agree more.

[Rosey]

The whole Lana thing just makes me tired. I wouldn't have the energy to write what you did, so thanks for that.

I'm sure KK is a really nice person, but it would have been such a bold step to have left her dead in Reckoning, and I think good for Clark's character and the show. As I've read many a time in these threads, the Lana character is beyond redemption now.

[Happy Random]

That last scene was *gags and falls to the floor* :mad: They are still a couple? What's she smokin'? As I recall, it was her that said that their relationship needed a break.

She was really annoying in this episode. She usually doesn't bug me, but this time around I was about ready to strangle her. I didn't think that she was all that good to Chloe in her time of need.

So she wrecks that car again next week... Lana should really just stay off the roads. :p :)

[uncsuperman]

ya know....reading what rosey just said about leaving Lana dead in Reckoning....

the writers sure as hell better do something really fantastic with regards to Lana, her character, her place in Clark's life, and the impact that she has on him

because if she just fades away, or shacks up with Lex, or something stupid like that.....then Clark going back to save her will be one big waste of a special power, ya know??

i mean, if JK had been kept alive, we all know he'd have an impact on CK's life

but with Lana, we're not sure anymore - if he found a way to tell her, keep her safe, and she accepted him like in Reckoning, that would be a wonderful impact for CK

let's hope they do something great with LL

[lanakk1]

i'm for clana forever but man its the same thing between these two. i always loved clana moments moments but today scene was like whatever. Basically, i'm getting bored with their relationship and i blame the stupid writers. i didn't think i would ever say this but bring on clois.

[joeybw]

Well, it does seem like Clark is starting to care less about her

He basically ignored her when she showed up at the barn and then in the following scenes with Martha and Chloe, he didnt seem upset at all...

[rxb spteh]

Originally posted by uncsuperman
ya know....reading what rosey just said about leaving Lana dead in Reckoning....

the writers sure as hell better do something really fantastic with regards to Lana, her character, her place in Clark's life, and the impact that she has on him

because if she just fades away, or shacks up with Lex, or something stupid like that.....then Clark going back to save her will be one big waste of a special power, ya know??

i mean, if JK had been kept alive, we all know he'd have an impact on CK's life

but with Lana, we're not sure anymore - if he found a way to tell her, keep her safe, and she accepted him like in Reckoning, that would be a wonderful impact for CK

let's hope they do something great with LL


totally agree.
I'm just about ready to see this whole Lois and Clark thing take off. Now when I'm watching the show, I expect Lana to say something stupid, and whiny, and not central to the developing plot.
My heart dropped when she told Clark she loved him, but the writers do nothing to bring it past that. Sure, we all love drama and struggle, but they need to settle down -or something.

[stonechild]

and for the sake of keeping the Lana character we lost JK....now tell me again because I am a slow learner, why we did that trade....oh yea so CK could buck up right hahahahaha I would say the wrong person( character) got the short straw.....

[amberdawn]

Originally posted by Happy Random
That last scene was *gags and falls to the floor* :mad: They are still a couple? What's she smokin'? As I recall, it was her that said that their relationship needed a break.

:lol: I agree

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by joeybw
Well, it does seem like Clark is starting to care less about her

He basically ignored her when she showed up at the barn and then in the following scenes with Martha and Chloe, he didnt seem upset at all...

it's all gonna lead up to the season 5 finale when clark says: "I can't believe I let my dad die for this good-for-nothing slut!"

[amberdawn]

^^:lol:

[myankskent]

Originally posted by lanakk1
i'm for clana forever but man its the same thing between these two. i always loved clana moments moments but today scene was like whatever. Basically, i'm getting bored with their relationship and i blame the stupid writers. i didn't think i would ever say this but bring on clois.

Well they're not going to just bring on Clois, that would be stupid. Having Clark break up with Lana and then hook up with Lois a few episodes later will be the most ridiculous thing that could happen. I agree though, they need to handle the end of their relationship correctly. We have sat through this stuff for 5 years so all I ask is, if you're going to end it, don't just phase it out and make their breakup so matter of fact, really make a statement.

[stonechild]

they seem to be living in the world of the ridiculous these last few eps.....at this point nothing would surprise me. I think they have cut a new pattern based on supernatural.....

[mandylilc14]

i'm tired of lana.. i really think now it would be best if she just moved away or something.. she isn't serving any purpose but to annoy clark and the viewers..honestly why didnt' she say anything when lex was being an ass to clark..especailly if she "loves him with all her heart"...if i was that in love with someone i would be defending his enemy

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by mandylilc14
he isn't serving any purpose but to annoy clark and the viewers..

No way! That's what I thought Lois was doing! :eek:

[justsaynotokryptonite]

Maybe Lana will star in a spin-off of Smallville called "Ungrateful Hag"...it'll be a romp of a time...

[cotton candy girl]

Kreukie, :lol:

[amberdawn]

Originally posted by justsaynotokryptonite
Maybe Lana will star in a spin-off of Smallville called "Ungrateful Hag"...it'll be a romp of a time...
:lol:

Haha, Lois serves waaaay more purpose than Lana does!!

[cotton candy girl]

Oh great, a Lois vs. Lana thread. :rolleyes:

Of course Lana fans disagree.

I know, I know...I laughed at Kreukie's joke first. :\

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by amberdawn
:lol:

Haha, Lois serves waaaay more purpose than Lana does!!

Like?

Let me see the reasons without you referring to something that happens 10 years from now.

[amberdawn]

Im not the one who started it.


No way! That's what I thought Lois was doing!
This did.

[cotton candy girl]

I conceded in my last post. :\

[myankskent]

I'm going to settle this...none of the girls serve a purpose to the show. Lois isn't even in all of the episodes and when she is she is just full of stupid lines and she can never be taken seriously. Chloe hasn't had a story of her own basically during the entire series involving her family or a relationship and her helping Clark is not something that Clark should need anyway. Lana is annoying because she is always after Clark and their relationship, while I liked it early on, is getting old now. So there you have it, any of the three girls could get killed off and the show could still go on without them.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by amberdawn
Im not the one who started it.

Actually someone with a Clois icon did.

Anyone who has an icon with Lois in it said something bad about Lana is making it about Lana vs. Lois.

[amberdawn]

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
I conceded in my last post. :\
Sorry, I didnt see that before.

[mandylilc14]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Actually someone with a Clois icon did.

Anyone who has an icon with Lois in it said something bad about Lana is making it about Lana vs. Lois.

being you have a clana icon and said something bad about lois.. who previously wasn't mentioned in this thread...wouldn't that mean you made it about lana vs. lois

[Raiders4Life]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
it's all gonna lead up to the season 5 finale when clark says: "I can't believe I let my dad die for this good-for-nothing slut!"

aaaaaahahh yeah!!!

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by myankskent
I'm going to settle this...none of the girls serve a purpose to the show. Lois isn't even in all of the episodes and when she is she is just full of stupid lines and she can never be taken seriously. Chloe hasn't had a story of her own basically during the entire series involving her family or a relationship and her helping Clark is not something that Clark should need anyway. Lana is annoying because she is always after Clark and their relationship, while I liked it early on, is getting old now. So there you have it, any of the three girls could get killed off and the show could still go on without them.
:lol: For the most part, I agree.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by mandylilc14
being you have a clana icon and said something bad about lois.. who previously wasn't mentioned in this thread...wouldn't that mean you made it about lana vs. lois

Maybe... ask the owl.

[bkzcici]

If you just got electricuted by someone, wouldn't you be mad? Lex should be an ass to Clark. Lana can't argue with that bc she also think Chloe is losing her mind. You guys are forgetting the point that Lana and Lex don't know what really went on. If you have a friend who cuts her wrists, say theres a girl in the room, and says she sees blood on the floor and you can't see any of the things she said, dont u think she's crazy? Yes you do.

[smallvillerocks45]

I agree with you alm26. I usually like Lana, and the Clana for that matter, but I think she went too far this time. She went to Lex before she went to Clark. She has the nerve to ask him why he didn't tell her that he took Chloe out of the hospital...umm hello, did she ever stop to think that he probably went to the dormitory to tell her. No, she's too busy playing patty cake (I love Uncle Rico's line --sorry, I digress)...*clears throat*...she's too busy playing patty cake with Lex that she can't even see what's right in front of her: the only person in the relationship who is trying to make it work...

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by bkzcici
If you just got electricuted by someone, wouldn't you be mad? Lex should be an ass to Clark. Lana can't argue with that bc she also think Chloe is losing her mind. You guys are forgetting the point that Lana and Lex don't know what really went on. If you have a friend who cuts her wrists, say theres a girl in the room, and says she sees blood on the floor and you can't see any of the things she said, dont u think she's crazy? Yes you do.

this is smallville. when has chloe ever been suicidal compared to how many meteor freaks have appeared on the show?????

i'm thinking more people should have given her the benefit of the doubt. clark did.

and lex was mad at clark for a)foiling his plan to get chloe to bellereeve and b)wanted to make clark look like the bad guy in front of lana.

[smallvillerocks45]

Absolutely! I mean, did you see his face when Clark showed up. Lex just wanted to make Clark look bad...I agree.

[vikingjedi]

The way Im looking at it Lana has taken a break from Clark because he keeps lying to her. She has turned to Lex because she feels he is there for her.

At the same time she still loves Clark and doesn't want their relationship to end. Problem is the romantic part of their relationship isn't possible because of the danger it would put her in and Clark hasn't told her yet because he has been dealing with his fathers death.

Clana as lovers is gone. Clana as best friends will last forever. But they can't become true friends until Clark tells her his secret. In the meantime there's going to be some rough roads ahead.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by smallvillerocks45
I agree with you alm26. I usually like Lana, and the Clana for that matter, but I think she went too far this time. She went to Lex before she went to Clark. She has the nerve to ask him why he didn't tell her that he took Chloe out of the hospital...umm hello, did she ever stop to think that he probably went to the dormitory to tell her. No, she's too busy playing patty cake (I love Uncle Rico's line --sorry, I digress)...*clears throat*...she's too busy playing patty cake with Lex that she can't even see what's right in front of her: the only person in the relationship who is trying to make it work...

You trash Lana for not going to Clark with the problem and going to Lex. Let me ask you something, who does clark go to for help, Lana or Chloe? And why does Clark go to Chloe? That's right, because he is actually honest with her and not honest with Lana. I love it how people rip on a girl who is constantly being lied to and call her whimpy and say that she complains about everything.

[DARKRAGE]

just the title of this thread turns my stomach lol

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by myankskent
You trash Lana for not going to Clark with the problem and going to Lex. Let me ask you something, who does clark go to for help, Lana or Chloe? And why does Clark go to Chloe? That's right, because he is actually honest with her and not honest with Lana. I love it how people rip on a girl who is constantly being lied to and call her whimpy and say that she complains about everything.
This is not even about that or the writing would be more consistent (consistent? What am I saying? *SLAP*)!!! It is nothing more than a ploy by TPTB too keep LANA (& CLANA, for that matter) in the spotlight for as long as possible! Most of KK's scenes were TOTALLY unnecessary to the story being told (Chloe's posession)... And don't even get me started w/ putting AM & KK in a scene together! AM has to 'dumb down' her ability to make the scene more even, & she STILL carries the scene! TPTB!!! There is still time... get rid of Lana! Or at least, END CLANA!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

[Liriel]

I don't fault Lana for going to Lex for help - farmer's son doesn't exactly have the ability to pull strings to get Chloe into a "top-notch" (I know, it's hard not to laugh) facility.

She should have thought of possesion/flowers/worms/etc. before actual mental instability, but I'll let that one slide.

But what is with her "why didn't you tell me about breaking out Chloe bit"? I mean, it was probably illegal and she'd already expressed the opinion Chloe belonged in BR and maybe, just maybe, Clark was too busy dealing with his possessed friend and a dead body and tracking a killer to call?

I don't think Lana did anything bad in this episode really. It just that she didn't really serve a purpose save to further drive the wedge between Clark and Lex and I'm adamant about not wanting any woman to be the wedge between them, but for their conflicting moral codes and objectives to be the root of it.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
This is not even about that or the writing would be more consistent (consistent? What am I saying? *SLAP*)!!! It is nothing more than a ploy by TPTB too keep LANA (& CLANA, for that matter) in the spotlight for as long as possible! Most of KK's scenes were TOTALLY unnecessary to the story being told (Chloe's posession)... And don't even get me started w/ putting AM & KK in a scene together! AM has to 'dumb down' her ability to make the scene more even, & she STILL carries the scene! TPTB!!! There is still time... get rid of Lana! Or at least, END CLANA!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

As I stated before, all of the girls on smallville are a waste. Do you really think that Clark needs Chloe to help him all of the time? He's superman, he doesn't need a girl doing the work for him anyway. By the way, not that I really care, but it is Kristin Kreuk who is getting the movie roles, not Allison Mack. I don't care if the movie roles are garbage, but Kristin Kreuk has a more impressive resume than Allison Mack. Blame the writers with your problems with Lana because they aren't really giving her a lot of good material to work with. Maybe once she knows the secret she will have a stronger storyline. I agree though, getting rid of any of the girls on smallville wouldn't be a bad idea because they all have their moments that annoy me.

[SmallvilleMan]

What? How are you going to hate on Lana for saying she loved him? She does and the only reason they're not engaged right now, is because Clark didn't tell her his secret. All she wants is for him to be honesty and guess what? When he was honesty, she took it great and they were actually happy. As for lana not believeing in Chloe, what about lois? Lois wanted her in belle Reeve too, so let's not try to say Lana was the only one. The only reason Clark didn't say anything to her at the end, was because he couldn't. What is he going to say? "I can't be honest, because you'll die"? Clark doesn't know what to do, he wants to be with her, but he knows he can't.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by myankskent
Do you really think that Clark needs Chloe to help him all of the time? He's superman, he doesn't need a girl doing the work for him anyway.

It's not at all unusual for totally capable lead characters to get help/advice from other characters. Kirk, Picard, Sisco (all the Trek captains), John Sheridan, Duncan MacCleod, Fox Mulder, Hercules, Xena, Buffy, Angel, and hundreds more I could name...All characters who could probably do quite fine on their own, but weren't somehow diminished because they occasionally went to other characters for advice/assistance.

And a confidante/advisor character serves another purpose. Having the lead have another character to go to for advice or help gives the audience insight into that character. When Clark talks to Chloe, we get a glimpse of what he's thinking and feeling in a given situation.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
What? How are you going to hate on Lana for saying she loved him? She does and the only reason they're not engaged right now, is because Clark didn't tell her his secret. All she wants is for him to be honesty and guess what? When he was honesty, she took it great and they were actually happy. As for lana not believeing in Chloe, what about lois? Lois wanted her in belle Reeve too, so let's not try to say Lana was the only one. The only reason Clark didn't say anything to her at the end, was because he couldn't. What is he going to say? "I can't be honest, because you'll die"? Clark doesn't know what to do, he wants to be with her, but he knows he can't.

This is just getting way out of hand now with all of these "I hate Lana" threads. If people are this bothered by Lana then I don't know why they ever liked this show given the fact that Lana and Clark have been a major storyline throughout. I am not a fan of any of the girls, my favorite character is Clark and I'll tell you right now that the problem in the Clark and Lana relationship is not Lana's fault, it is Clark's. He is to blame for everything unless you want to trash the writers.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
When Clark talks to Chloe, we get a glimpse of what he's thinking and feeling in a given situation.
Perfectly phrased. One of the few things done right writing-wise on this show... :(


Originally posted by myankskent
unless you want to trash the writers.

MY ultimate goal, for sure... :mad:

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
It's not at all unusual for totally capable lead characters to get help/advice from other characters. Kirk, Picard, Sisco (all the Trek captains), John Sheridan, Duncan MacCleod, Fox Mulder, Hercules, Xena, Buffy, Angel, and hundreds more I could name...All characters who could probably do quite fine on their own, but weren't somehow diminished because they occasionally went to other characters for advice/assistance.

And a confidante/advisor character serves another purpose. Having the lead have another character to go to for advice or help gives the audience insight into that character. When Clark talks to Chloe, we get a glimpse of what he's thinking and feeling in a given situation.

And what you're describing above is the complete opposite of what Superman is. Superman works alone, he doesn't get help from others. People want to see him take responsibility and grow up, but if he relies on help from others rather than making his own decisions, doesn't that hold him back from accepting his destiny? This is not Batman where he and Robin discuss what their plan of attack is down in the batcave. Superman makes his own decisions.

Oh, and one more thing, Clark should be getting help from JorEl, not Chloe or Lana.

[lanakk1]

i agree with SmallvilleMan, Myankskent, Kreukie, cottoncandygirl, and all the lana supporters that i forgot to name.:)

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by myankskent
And what you're describing above is the complete opposite of what Superman is. Superman works alone, he doesn't get help from others. People want to see him take responsibility and grow up, but if he relies on help from others rather than making his own decisions, doesn't that hold him back from accepting his destiny? This is not Batman where he and Robin discuss what their plan of attack is down in the batcave. Superman makes his own decisions.

Oh, and one more thing, Clark should be getting help from JorEl, not Chloe or Lana.

First, why should Clark be getting help from Jor-El. Jor-El has demonstrated that he doesn't get Clark because Clark was raised human, and would have Clark do things alien (no pun intended) to the way he was raised. And it's very hard to go to someone for advice when you don't think they will get you. I mean, talking to parents raised on the same planet can sometimes be difficult. Clark and Jor-El are worlds apart. Literally.

Chloe might not know exactly how it feels to have Clark's abilities, but she can empathise more than Jor-El can.

And getting advice from others doesn't mean not taking responsibility. It just means you could use another point of view. And that's bad how? Asking others for help isn't a bad thing...even for a superhero.

Also I've read enough comics, seen enough movies and TV shows, to know that Superman does, in fact, go to others for advice and help on occasion.

[SmallvilleMan]

Chloe might not know exactly how it feels to have Clark's abilities, but she can empathise more than Jor-El can.

:lol: Geez, Chloe is once again elavated to god like status. CHloe has no clue what Clark goes through. She has no idea what it is like to give up everything and still have to go out there saving the day. Jor-el knows how Clark feels, because he's been there. He knows what's like to give up the one he loves, he knows what it's like to lose the one he loves. I think it's wrong to say that chloe can empathize with clark more than Jor-el, imo.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
:lol: Geez, Chloe is once again elavated to god like status. CHloe has no clue what Clark goes through. She has no idea what it is like to give up everything and still have to go out there saving the day. Jor-el knows how Clark feels, because he's been there. He knows what's like to give up the one he loves, he knows what it's like to lose the one he loves. I think it's wrong to say that chloe can empathize with clark more than Jor-el, imo.

I agree, and I think the real problem here is that people feel that Chloe can do no wrong. Do I really have to remind everyone that Chloe was a character much like Lana before she knew Clark's secret? All she was doing was chasing a person that never loved her romantically. This is not a Chloe bashing, but you can't attack Lana constantly and make Chloe god. It's not fair.

[Crazy4Smallville]

Lana is supposed to be Chloe's best friend. A best friend would know that Chloe is not the suicidal type. No one has their future mapped out in bolder print than Chloe Sullivan. A girl with dreams and ambitions doesn't think about committing suicide.

Also, Chloe is in Smallville. Lana should always question anything that happens out of the ordinary in Smallville. Lana knows about possession - she was possessed by Dawn for Prom, yet not once did it occur to Lana that Chloe wasn't herself? Is she that dense, self-absorbed and stupid?

Then, Lana runs off to Lex to have him have Chloe committed to Belle Reve - after everything Lana has heard about their practices - especially what they did to Ryan, Clark and even Lex? What planet does this girl live on?

She's no friend to Chloe - she proved that tonight.
She's no friend to Clark - she proved that by going to Lex, first.

Maybe she is the one who needs to go to Belle Reve?

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
:lol: Geez, Chloe is once again elavated to god like status. CHloe has no clue what Clark goes through. She has no idea what it is like to give up everything and still have to go out there saving the day. Jor-el knows how Clark feels, because he's been there. He knows what's like to give up the one he loves, he knows what it's like to lose the one he loves. I think it's wrong to say that chloe can empathize with clark more than Jor-el, imo.

I'm not elevating Chloe to anything. I think anyone could empathise with Clark if they knew his situation. We the audience empathise with Clark more than Jor-El seems able to, and I'm pretty sure none of us has his abilities. We can empathise with Clark more than Jor-El because we can put ourselves in his shoes. We can imagine what it would be like to be a teenager who, for one reason or another, feels different. We know what it's like to be that young and to feel certain pressures to be a certain way, to do certain things. Maybe not on the same level as Clark, but we can imagine based on our own experiences.

Jor-El (which isn't even really Jor-El) can't seem to empathise. He doesn't seem to understand Clark's connection to his human life, why he doesn't just cut all ties and do what Jor-El tells him to do. He certainly can't understand the pressures of Clark's every day life, and how that life often conflicts with his apparant destiny.

Chloe might not have Clark's abilities, but I think she (like most of us) can put herself in his shoes enough to give him another point of view. Or, sometimes, just to be a supportive listener.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Crazy4Smallville
Lana is supposed to be Chloe's best friend. A best friend would know that Chloe is not the suicidal type. No one has their future mapped out in bolder print than Chloe Sullivan. A girl with dreams and ambitions doesn't think about committing suicide.

Also, Chloe is in Smallville. Lana should always question anything that happens out of the ordinary in Smallville. Lana knows about possession - she was possessed by Dawn for Prom, yet not once did it occur to Lana that Chloe wasn't herself? Is she that dense, self-absorbed and stupid?

Then, Lana runs off to Lex to have him have Chloe committed to Belle Reve - after everything Lana has heard about their practices - especially what they did to Ryan, Clark and even Lex? What planet does this girl live on?

She's no friend to Chloe - she proved that tonight.
She's no friend to Clark - she proved that by going to Lex, first.

Maybe she is the one who needs to go to Belle Reve?

Lana went to Lex because she knew that he had money and would be able to get the best care possible for Chloe. How that is not being a friend I will never know. Was she wrong about Chloe in the end? Yes, but Lex has helped Lana in a lot of tough situations and that is why she goes to Lex when money is needed. When she is in a life threatening situation, she would want Clark.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by myankskent
I agree, and I think the real problem here is that people feel that Chloe can do no wrong.
Wrong. Chloe has her weaknesses, & that's what makes her real. She has, for the most part, been a support system for Clark, w/ little compensation, excepting "saves" (which EVERY character has gotten from CK). Lana has been nothing but a detriment to Clark, and his feelings have done little to open his eyes to that. Yes, it's both their faults. Lana to Clark has been like Cleopatra to Antony, Delilah to Samson, Jezebel to King... --Anyway you get the picture. If again, the plan is to shift Lana toward Lex, then either Chloe or Lois (or both) need to fill the gap. I certainly hope this is where they're going. If they'd just leave the starting gate... :\

[BadToad]

Lana went to Lex because she knew that he had money and would be able to get the best care possible for Chloe. How that is not being a friend I will never know.

The obvious answer, at least to me, is that Lana should know better then to trust Chloe to Lex. If Lana herself chooses to snuggle up to Lex, for reasons that are beyond my ability to comprehend, thats her decision. However, she was putting Chloe into his hands, and thats just flat out dumb and naive, and somewhat incomprehensible. She knows that Clark and Chloe do not trust Lex. How can this be anymore obvious? Lana herself has showed a considerable lack of trust in Lex this very season. How can we forget her snide "he's a real hero" in Arrival, or her showing up with Clark's medical file in "Hidden" and telling Lex she knows he was trying to get it. Has she forgotten that he misled her about the ship for weeks? But again, if she chooses to put herself in Lex's hands, thats her decision. But getting Lex involved in Chloe's private medical issues? My God, no way is that cool.

I don't see this as a Clark vs Lex thing in regards to Lana. This is about Chloe's well being and what she would want. And can someone honestly tell me that they find it believable that Lana could actually think Chloe would want to be in Lex's hands?

And yes, I thought Lois was moronic too for actually entertaining the thought Chloe would be better off in Belle Reve.

[Crazy4Smallville]

Originally posted by myankskent
Lana went to Lex because she knew that he had money and would be able to get the best care possible for Chloe. How that is not being a friend I will never know. Was she wrong about Chloe in the end? Yes, but Lex has helped Lana in a lot of tough situations and that is why she goes to Lex when money is needed. When she is in a life threatening situation, she would want Clark.

So, you're saying that she uses people to get what she wants?

A friend knows their friend. They know when something is wrong - Lana didn't have a clue and jumped to the wrong conclusion because she's not Chloe's friend. She never has been. Lana treats Lex more like a friend than she's ever treated Chloe. She's tolerated Chloe all this time because she knows that Chloe is Clark's friend. Besides, I don't think Lana went to Lex to help her friend, but to have something to do. She obviously doesn't think that Chloe's father, Gabe, nor her cousin, Lois, nor her best friend, Clark, could make the right decision for Chloe. She had to go above their heads and the legal system to get Lex involved, because lo' and behold, Lana knows best!

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Crazy4Smallville
So, you're saying that she uses people to get what she wants?

She has for 4.5 years now. Just re-watch the past seasons & tell me she has no personal agenda. Even if you say no, I'll continue to disagree. She has more in common w/ Lex & Lionel than meets the eye. And don't blame me -- blame TPTB & the writers. :mad:

[Crazy4Smallville]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
She has for 4.5 years now. Just re-watch the past seasons & tell me she has no personal agenda. Even if you say no, I'll continue to disagree. She has more in common w/ Lex & Lionel than meets the eye. And don't blame me -- blame TPTB & the writers. :mad:

Oh, I agree. I was just trying to point that out in the other poster's post.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Crazy4Smallville
Oh, I agree. I was just trying to point that out in the other poster's post.
:) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) ;)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Crazy4Smallville
So, you're saying that she uses people to get what she wants?

A friend knows their friend. They know when something is wrong - Lana didn't have a clue and jumped to the wrong conclusion because she's not Chloe's friend. She never has been. Lana treats Lex more like a friend than she's ever treated Chloe. She's tolerated Chloe all this time because she knows that Chloe is Clark's friend. Besides, I don't think Lana went to Lex to help her friend, but to have something to do. She obviously doesn't think that Chloe's father, Gabe, nor her cousin, Lois, nor her best friend, Clark, could make the right decision for Chloe. She had to go above their heads and the legal system to get Lex involved, because lo' and behold, Lana knows best!

And Chloe doesn't use Clark and his powers to her advantage? Come on, everyone uses Clark so let's not go there. And Lana going to Lex for help only annoys you because you want to make a big deal out of it because you hate Lana. Lana doesn't know who lex really is and do you want to know why? Because Clark never tells her anything. He only tells Chloe so you can't make Chloe better than everyone because that is the person that Clark tells all of his secrets to. This could've been all rectified if Clark told Lana not to trust Lex in the 100th episode but he didn't. Once again, blame Clark, not Lana. I understand that you hate Lana and you want Chloe to be wearing the crown with Clark in the end, but you have to start blaming Clark more than Lana.

[Soline Yayire]

Hmm when even Lana- and Clana-lovers starts to think Lana is unnecessary, they are taking the ''Lanaville'' Crap to far. Lana needs to be gone...

[mar1013]

i agree, lana is not necessary anymore

[myankskent]

Just explain to me where Lana is wrong in this whole scenario. Clark never tells her the truth so she is blind to so many things, thus, making her character stupid to the viewers. Everyone was getting all excited that Lana, back at the beginning of season 5, lied to Clark about the ship that she found with Lex because they wanted to see her mess up and then she tells Clark about it before episode 100. What is she really doing wrong compared to the other characters? And also, do you really think that this Lex/Lana thing is going to last? Eventually, Lana will discover that Lex is not to be trusted, although this could've been resolved if Clark opened his mouth back in 100.

[margroks]

Finally Clark didn't return the simpering "Ilove you's" and maybe it's because he's finally seeing Lana for what she really is. SHe's always treated him badly and she's nice unless you cross her. ANd what crap was that anyway? SHe dumped him. SHe was all pissy and she stomped off after breaking up and stayed briefly at the gravsite leaving him standing over his father's grave. The tight little up close her hand pulling away said it plainly for those who didn't get her words.

She's not the sweet little girl who wants to help Clark through a difficult time and wouldn't have made the effort to get his watch back nor be helpful after that. She's the self centered girl she's always been and now Clark's maybe wondering what he saw in her.

They are not a couple. SHe broke up with him That scene was just shoehorned in and total BS.

And Lana? Was never necessary.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by myankskent
Lana doesn't know who lex really is and do you want to know why? Because Clark never tells her anything.
First of all, NOT TRUE. How many times has she fought w/ Lex over something? Has she EVER won? C'mon, your quote makes Lana look more blind & stupid than WE even make her out to be!!! Why does Clark need to tell her? She could've found out from Chloe, Jonathan, even Lois! You're making her out to be a complete MORON who can't see beyond her own nose! If you're going to argue Lana's case, don't do it by throwing bones to the prosecution!!! Geez...

[jimmyolsenblues]

For me, lana really did not bother me until she became Lana the Lex Leaner, the only guy she can turn to. If my girlfriend went over to the guy who spying on me for support that would be the end. Lana has worn out her welcome.

[Soline Yayire]

Someone said erlier in this thread that i'ts chloes waeknesses and flaws that makes her a good charachter. well tptb tries to make lana flawless, and changes her intrests every season. Cheerleading, horse back riding, running a coffeshop (wich is weird coz when she worked att the beanery she was lousy as a waitress) Art, asronomy... if it will be a sixth season and lana is in it (wich she will be in that case) she will probably have forgotten everything about astronomy and start with dancing as her life-long interest or something...

[myankskent]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
First of all, NOT TRUE. How many times has she fought w/ Lex over something? Has she EVER won? C'mon, your quote makes Lana look more blind & stupid than WE even make her out to be!!! Why does Clark need to tell her? She could've found out from Chloe, Jonathan, even Lois! You're making her out to be a complete MORON who can't see beyond her own nose! If you're going to argue Lana's case, don't do it by throwing bones to the prosecution!!! Geez...

What has Lex done to Lana? How has he hurt her in the past? Who did Chloe go to for help at the end of season 3 when she had evidence against Lionel? Was it Lex? I think so. Chloe now doesn't trust Lex because of what he did to her in the season 4 finale pressing her for information about Clark. Now if the first half of 100 actually happened and Lana had lived through it, do you think she would trust Lex after that? I don't think so. That was a similar situation that Chloe was in during the season 4 finale. Don't throw bones my way to help my case either which is what you just did.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by myankskent
What has Lex done to Lana?
I'm not going to argue this further... it's a train wreck where everybody dies. I'm jumping off. I'd rather witness it than be a part of the wreckage.
* leaps from train taking "bones" with him * ;) :p

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by myankskent
What has Lex done to Lana? How has he hurt her in the past?
Lex wasn't up front about his suspiscion of Jason during season 4. He got Jason fired and let Clark take the blame from Lana until the end of "Spell". He also hired Jason to get information from Lana about Isobel instead of simply going to Lana directly. We also saw him get angry with her in "Commencement" when she told him she no longer had the stone. She also knows that Lex tried to obtain Clark's medical records in "Hidden". Lex also hid the fact that the spaceship was missing, only mentioning it when both of their lives were on the line.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Kryptonian Snake
Lex wasn't up front about his suspiscion of Jason during season 4. He got Jason fired and let Clark take the blame from Lana until the end of "Spell". He also hired Jason to get information from Lana about Isobel instead of simply going to Lana directly. We also saw him get angry with her in "Commencement" when she told him she no longer had the stone. She also knows that Lex tried to obtain Clark's medical records in "Hidden". Lex also hid the fact that the spaceship was missing, only mentioning it when both of their lives were on the line.

All of what you said above are things that Lex eventually fixed later on. The spaceship being hidden was not what you should've said, you should've said that he hid the fact that he kept the spaceship after Lana told him about it in the premier. As we all know, Lex came clean about it in Splinter. Lex also let Lana go in commencement which showed, to her at least, that keeping her safe was priority number 1. Did he let Chloe go? No, he dragged her by the arm to the cave and demanded answers. As for the Jason stuff, I don't remember how much of that Lana actually knew and that is so minor compared to the other stuff.

[Fly by guy]

Since Fanatic, most Clana scenes have been about Clark opening up and telling Lana what is keeping him from being with her. After almos 5 years of lusting suddenly the BDA can't be a man and say ANYTHING. What Clark needs is for Pete to cold cock him in the back of the head with a meteror rock again. Lana finding the watch was a selfless act. Lana asking Clark to confide in her as any couple should was her reaching out ONE more time. Most young women would say to hell with him and give up but IMO she truly loves Clark. If Clark can't step up, he should step back and let Lana know that they can never be together. THAT would be superman like to me. Lana goes to Lex because she admitted that she doesn't know how to talk to Clark. He just stands there like a fool. Clark equal super whimp.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Fly by guy
Since Fanatic, most Clana scenes have been about Clark opening up and telling Lana what is keeping him from being with her. After almos 5 years of lusting suddenly the BDA can't be a man and say ANYTHING. What Clark needs is for Pete to cold cock him in the back of the head with a meteror rock again. Lana finding the watch was a selfless act. Lana asking Clark to confide in her as any couple should was her reaching out ONE more time. Most young women would say to hell with him and give up but IMO she truly loves Clark. If Clark can't step up, he should step back and let Lana know that they can never be together. THAT would be superman like to me. Lana goes to Lex because she admitted that she doesn't know how to talk to Clark. He just stands there like a fool. Clark equal super whimp.

I agree 100 percent, especially about the part where you said that Lana loves him too much to just say the hell with him. I guess we can still try to find a way to blame Lana for that too. I'm sure someone can come up with something.

[All about Clark]

Even though I've been a Clana fan, I was really irritated with Lana. How dare she tell Clark why he didn't tell her she broke Chloe out. He wouldn't have had to if she hadn't gone to Lex. How unbelievable. She is guilty first. She knows Chloe's best friend is her and Clark, and definitely not Lex. Lana took care of her needs above Chloe's and Clark's. The right thing for Lana to do would be to speak with Clark and Lois, who are far more closer than Lex. Chloe had made the comment to Lana that Clark doesn't like Lex back before reckoning, so why does she constantly throw this in Clark's face. It's like she's pissed and trying to get back at Clark. Clark needs to dump her once and for all.

I liked Lana before Reckoning and clearly dislike her now.

[bluelila]

Well i am one of those people who can't stand Lana, but it is more about the fact that TPTB present her like someone who can do no wrong. Moreover, she never had had to face the consecuences of her actions. It 's like everything drop in her lap, she just has to ask lex and it will be serve on a silver plater to her.
And that's what really bothers me.

And about reckoning and her reaction to clark secret, well, i think that we can't really say that she took it that well. So alrignt she accepted to marry him but what says she would really has gone through it in the end or if she could live every day near him.

[velocity]

Originally posted by bluelila
And about reckoning and her reaction to clark secret, well, i think that we can't really say that she took it that well. So alrignt she accepted to marry him but what says she would really has gone through it in the end or if she could live every day near him.

try... because she loves him.
wtf are you talking about she didin't took it well?
It's the opposite, even i as a Lana fan was surprised by how well she took it.

[Dannyblue1]

I think what bluelila is saying is that, while Lana seemed to take it well enough initially to agree to the engagement, we have no idea whether or not she would've started having doubts later down the line. If, as she really had time to think about it, it would've become harder and harder for her to deal with. (After all, women have broken engagements for less.)

Since we never saw it, we just don't know. Maybe she would've continued to be completely okay with it. But, considering this is SV, and they love to dwell on the angst in the Clana relationship, I almost guarantee that if that timeline had continued (without Lana dying) the writers and producers woulda milked Lana's doubts for all they were worth.

[bluelila]

That's just it. It was so bizarre. No one would have ever thought her possible of reacting so well. That's why i thing she didn't really digest everything he told her before accepting. So to me, reckoning doesn't embodies what their relationship would be if clark told her the truth.
Loves him, yes i thing she does, but in a very self-centered way. I mean everytime she doesn't get her way with him, she would dumped him.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by bluelila
That's just it. It was so bizarre. No one would have ever thought her possible of reacting so well. That's why i thing she didn't really digest everything he told her before accepting. So to me, reckoning doesn't embodies what their relationship would be if clark told her the truth.
Loves him, yes i thing she does, but in a very self-centered way. I mean everytime she doesn't get her way with him, she would dumped him.

Her way with him? You make it sound like Lana wants to control Clark in their relationship. If you ask me, she is pretty low maintenance. All that she asks for is the truth which isn't so much to ask if you plan on spending the rest of your life with someone.

[bluelila]

I'm not really talking about clark secret here. I understand how clark behaviour is really hurtful. And well, to tell the truth, i'm all about him telling her his secret. It would be done with and we would not have to hear always the same thing.
But i have noted that in day to day situations, if she doesn't get what she wants she would just pout. I don't have a better word for it.

I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself very well but english is not my first language, so i have difficulties to pass my point accross

[myankskent]

Originally posted by bluelila
I'm not really talking about clark secret here. I understand how clark behaviour is really hurtful. And well, to tell the truth, i'm all about him telling her his secret. It would be done with and we would not have to hear always the same thing.
But i have noted that in day to day situations, if she doesn't get what she wants she would just pout. I don't have a better word for it.

I'm sorry if i'm not explaining myself very well but english is not my first language, so i have difficulties to pass my point accross

Well I understand what you are saying but I don't see Lana's character as a person who pouts if she doesn't get what she wants. You're going to have to give me some examples because the only I can think of is about Clark's secret and him not telling her. I can't fault her for that.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Okay so...the two sides have been specified. "Lana has faults and it's annoying the hell out of me" vs. "Lana has NO faults and everyone else needs to get off her back".

I hope by the end of this, you all will understand what side I'm on.


First off, making any character on this show out to be a saint is pointless. They're all humans, they all make mistakes -- including lying and being dishonest. Everyone lies. One lie isn't worse than another lie because they're all lies.

That being said, we all know Clark lies. He lies every day; people think he's something he's not, and he has to keep them thinking that for obvious reasons. Some of his relationships have to suffer, but sometimes life is about sacrifice.

Chloe lies, Lex lies, Martha lies, MB lies -- heck, even Jor-El has lied. Fine, we get that.

Now just because the majority happen to be focusing on what Lana may be doing wrong in a certain situation doesn't in any way excuse anything wrong that anyone else on the show has done. But look at the thread title: LANA IN THIS EPISODE. What does that say to posters? "Hey, this thread is probably for talking about Lana in this episode" If a lot of people thought she was a self-centered tripe-of-a-snit in this ep, this would be the place to talk about it. There shouldn't be so many defensive attitudes being tossed around. Apologies if some of us have trouble seeing where these characters fall short, but that's the reality of the situation. They're flawed. Just like the rest of us.


Alright, got it out.


Oh hey Lana?

(1) You're not in charge of knowing what's best for Chloe. At best, you'd be third to last on the list, right in front of Lex and Lionel. Yeah, involving the man you know both Chloe and Clark distrust was a dumb-butt move too, for the record.

(2) You're just as much to blame for any relationship problems you have with Clark as he is. The love street goes both ways, and right now you're creating a bunch of unnecessary traffic with all your white noise/"secreth and lieth" nonsense. If you need a break from Clark, fine. Take a break. But just so you know -- coming to his loft needlessly and informing him yet again that he's a liar and you're the victim does nothing for helping your suffering relationship. Think before you act. And yes, he lies...but so do you. Your lies don't suck any less than his do just because they're coming from you.

(3) For the last time...the sun doesn't shine out of your bum, so stop looking for it.


K, that's all. :)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
Okay so...the two sides have been specified. "Lana has faults and it's annoying the hell out of me" vs. "Lana has NO faults and everyone else needs to get off her back".

I hope by the end of this, you all will understand what side I'm on.


First off, making any character on this show out to be a saint is pointless. They're all humans, they all make mistakes -- including lying and being dishonest. Everyone lies. One lie isn't worse than another lie because they're all lies.

That being said, we all know Clark lies. He lies every day; people think he's something he's not, and he has to keep them thinking that for obvious reasons. Some of his relationships have to suffer, but sometimes life is about sacrifice.

Chloe lies, Lex lies, Martha lies, MB lies -- heck, even Jor-El has lied. Fine, we get that.

Now just because the majority happen to be focusing on what Lana may be doing wrong in a certain situation doesn't in any way excuse anything wrong that anyone else on the show has done. But look at the thread title: LANA IN THIS EPISODE. What does that say to posters? "Hey, this thread is probably for talking about Lana in this episode" If a lot of people thought she was a self-centered tripe-of-a-snit in this ep, this would be the place to talk about it. There shouldn't be so many defensive attitudes being tossed around. Apologies if some of us have trouble seeing where these characters fall short, but that's the reality of the situation. They're flawed. Just like the rest of us.


Alright, got it out.


Oh hey Lana?

(1) You're not in charge of knowing what's best for Chloe. At best, you'd be third to last on the list, right in front of Lex and Lionel. Yeah, involving the man you know both Chloe and Clark distrust was a dumb-butt move too, for the record.

(2) You're just as much to blame for any relationship problems you have with Clark as he is. The love street goes both ways, and right now you're creating a bunch of unnecessary traffic with all your white noise/"secreth and lieth" nonsense. If you need a break from Clark, fine. Take a break. But just so you know -- coming to his loft needlessly and informing him yet again that he's a liar and you're the victim does nothing for helping your suffering relationship. Think before you act. And yes, he lies...but so do you. Your lies don't suck any less than his do just because they're coming from you.

(3) For the last time...the sun doesn't shine out of your bum, so stop looking for it.


K, that's all. :)

I didn't have to read your post to see what side you are on, I just looked at your icon. And by the way, if there was a thread that had negative things about Chloe in it, you're telling me that you wouldn't be all defensive? Come on.

[LuckyKrypto]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ

(2) You're just as much to blame for any relationship problems you have with Clark as he is. The love street goes both ways, and right now you're creating a bunch of unnecessary traffic with all your white noise/"secreth and lieth" nonsense. If you need a break from Clark, fine. Take a break. But just so you know -- coming to his loft needlessly and informing him yet again that he's a liar and you're the victim does nothing for helping your suffering relationship. Think before you act. And yes, he lies...but so do you. Your lies don't suck any less than his do just because they're coming from you.

(3) For the last time...the sun doesn't shine out of your bum, so stop looking for it.


K, that's all. :)

SnarkmasterJ :D
Your post made me laugh at the end *wink*

Very true what you said above.

[SnarkMasterJ]

Originally posted by myankskent
I didn't have to read your post to see what side you are on, I just looked at your icon. And by the way, if there was a thread that had negative things about Chloe in it, you're telling me that you wouldn't be all defensive? Come on.

By quoting my post, you're eluding to the fact that you read it. If you didn't, you could've just said that you saw my icon.

Also, just because I'm a Chlark shipper doesn't mean I hate Lana, so that also doesn't bode well for you in the whole "you didn't need to read my post" department.

And if there was a thread where negative things were said about Chloe, I'd read them and decide if they were really worth arguing over. If more than one person was saying something about Chloe (and by more than one, I'd mean a lot of people), I'd take what I know about the character and then decide what to say from there. But if people from my own ship/fanbase were saying the same things as those who aren't, then it's possible that maybe there's something there I'm not seeing. I wouldn't blindly defend any character on the show to the ground, Chloe included.


Thanks LuckyKrypto. :)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SnarkMasterJ
By quoting my post, you're eluding to the fact that you read it. If you didn't, you could've just said that you saw my icon.

Also, just because I'm a Chlark shipper doesn't mean I hate Lana, so that also doesn't bode well for you in the whole "you didn't need to read my post" department.

And if there was a thread where negative things were said about Chloe, I'd read them and decide if they were really worth arguing over. If more than one person was saying something about Chloe (and by more than one, I'd mean a lot of people), I'd take what I know about the character and then decide what to say from there. But if people from my own ship/fanbase were saying the same things as those who aren't, then it's possible that maybe there's something there I'm not seeing. I wouldn't blindly defend any character on the show to the ground, Chloe included.


Thanks LuckyKrypto. :)

Never said I didn't read your post, I said that I didn't have to read it to know. Just for your information, there are plenty of people who disagree with you about Lana so don't make it sound like there are only two people who like her. Regardless, we'll agree to disagree. My feeling is that Lana will be involved in the show until the end and Chloe will probably move away before that happens to make room for Lois so there is nothing that I need to worry about. I just want to see Clark begin to accept his destiny and stop it with his feelings for the girls.

[SnarkMasterJ]

I never once mentioned the amount of people who liked Lana, so you don't need to inform me that there are more than two.

And yes, we will agree to disagree.

[tmkfan]

god, pleaseforgive lana for wanting chloe to get some help.. that bi_tch o_O

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
If you ask me, she is pretty low maintenance.

Dude, I say this as someone who has been on the front lines in defending Lana's behavior for weeks now...

*whisper* Don't. Poke. The. Bear. */whisper*

[SmallvilleMan]

I'm not elevating Chloe to anything. I think anyone could empathise with Clark if they knew his situation. We the audience empathise with Clark more than Jor-El seems able to, and I'm pretty sure none of us has his abilities. We can empathise with Clark more than Jor-El because we can put ourselves in his shoes. We can imagine what it would be like to be a teenager who, for one reason or another, feels different. We know what it's like to be that young and to feel certain pressures to be a certain way, to do certain things. Maybe not on the same level as Clark, but we can imagine based on our own experiences.

See, we don't know that Jor-el doesn't empathize with him. We're going to see him talk like someone who is, but I guarantee he does. Jor-el's job is to prepare Clark and frankly, he's the only who can.


Okay so...the two sides have been specified. "Lana has faults and it's annoying the hell out of me" vs. "Lana has NO faults and everyone else needs to get off her back".

I think you got the sides wrong, it's more like this:

One side thinks: "Lana does everything wrong, she can't do anything right. She could save a little kid and it would still some how be wrong."

Other side: "Lana has faults just like everyone else, but I can accept them, because I know what kind of person she is."

Yeah, that's more like it. As for Lana being Chloe's best friend, that goes both way. Chloe KNOWS everything about what happen that day, but she just lets Lana suffer. What a true friend? Yeah, I want a friend like chloe who knows the truth, but instead makes me suffer. Now, i know people are going to say, she can't tell Lana, because it's clark's secret. Well, she doesn't have to tell Lana the secrets, just what happened. There's this little unwritten rule between best friends, if they know something so serious that's very important to their friend, they have a duty to tell them.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
See, we don't know that Jor-el doesn't empathize with him. We're going to see him talk like someone who is, but I guarantee he does. Jor-el's job is to prepare Clark and frankly, he's the only who can.

We don't know Jor-El can empathise. And you gotta show me. That's what storytelling is all about. If they want me to believe Jor-El could empathise with Clark, give me a hint. But, from all we've seen so far, he/it can't. And, if he's hiding his empathy from Clark, what good is that to Clark when empathy is what he needs in certain situations?

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
We don't know Jor-El can empathise. And you gotta show me. That's what storytelling is all about. If they want me to believe Jor-El could empathise with Clark, give me a hint. But, from all we've seen so far, he/it can't. And, if he's hiding his empathy from Clark, what good is that to Clark when empathy is what he needs in certain situations?

JorEl needs to play a bigger role in this show. I have been disappointed with what they have done to his character, even though he is dead. The show is always elevated when he is talking to Clark, when he doesn't, that is when we get these cheesy filler episodes.

[SmallvilleMan]

We don't know Jor-El can empathise. And you gotta show me. That's what storytelling is all about. If they want me to believe Jor-El could empathise with Clark, give me a hint. But, from all we've seen so far, he/it can't. And, if he's hiding his empathy from Clark, what good is that to Clark when empathy is what he needs in certain situations?

They have shown you. Relic, is a great example. Jor-el comes down to earth, falls in love. He and Louise love each other deeply, but he can't be with her, because of his higher purpose. Then she dies right in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. That's Clark and Lana in a nutshell. So, who better to understand that, then Jor-el? Another example, saving the one you love, sacrificing yourself to protect the one you love as in Clark. Sounds like he can emphaize with Clark completely. As for him giving Clark empathy, he shouldn't have to, that's not his job. He wants Clark to find the strength within himself. He did tell Clark that he loves him.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
They have shown you. Relic, is a great example. Jor-el comes down to earth, falls in love. He and Louise love each other deeply, but he can't be with her, because of his higher purpose. Then she dies right in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. That's Clark and Lana in a nutshell. So, who better to understand that, then Jor-el? Another example, saving the one you love, sacrificing yourself to protect the one you love as in Clark. Sounds like he can emphaize with Clark completely. As for him giving Clark empathy, he shouldn't have to, that's not his job. He wants Clark to find the strength within himself. He did tell Clark that he loves him.

Excellent points. I also think that Lara needs to enter the show as well. Clark needs to talk to someone that is not as hard on him as JorEl.

[SmallvilleMan]

Lara would be nice, that's what mother are here for, the comfort part. They better the emtions of their son more than anyone.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
One side thinks: "Lana does everything wrong, she can't do anything right. She could save a little kid and it would still some how be wrong."

Other side: "Lana has faults just like everyone else, but I can accept them, because I know what kind of person she is."

This is more like it. There are some true fanboys (and girls) of Lana, for whom she can do no wrong, but those are very few and far between. Most of us that bother to defend her do so with a full knowledge of the mistakes she has made. For Lana, yes she has made mistakes, but the people that give her the benefit of the doubt can see that *most* of the time (read: empasis on most) when she makes mistakes she ends up doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Or she does the wrong thing, in our eyes, because she does not have background knowledge that we, the audience, have to know the logical repercussions of her actions. But again, she usually does the wrong thing for the right reason.

Case in point, "Tomb". Was it the wrong move to go to Lex? I think there is a pretty solid consensus on that. Should she have gone to Clark? Maybe. But Clark's reaction to Chloe's situation was to break her out of the psych ward. 2 questions on this: 1) In Lana's mind, was this the best possible course of action for Chloe, given that she believed Chloe was "unbalanced" to say the least, and 2) In Lana's mind, would the point of going to Clark be that he would immediately break her out?

My answer to the first question is no - she believed Chloe needed professional care, not a get out of jail free card. You can argue about whether she *should* have jumped to the "Chloe would never kill herself, she must be possessed" conclusion, but that's just not how she thinks. Her focus is always on the practical, the tangible first, and is constantly shocked by the supernatural or the unbelievable. Chloe being possessed is not the first thing she would have thought of - probably was not even on the list of things she would consider without definitely proof - and settled on the easiest, most likely scenario, that there was something very wrong with Chloe. That, to Lana, would not imply an exorcism, it would imply doctors with expertise in this area. A la Belle Reve.

My answer to the second question is also no - breaking Chloe out was not her goal and she would not assume that the first thing Clark would do would be to break her out. If her goal HAD been to break Chloe out, would she have gone to Lex? No, she's have turned to Clark.

But what did she know at this point? She knew Lex had been in a similar circumstance, she knew that when he came out of Belle Reve he was much improved, and she knew that, out of anyone in Smallville, he was the probably the only one with the means to help Chloe in that way. So, she went to him. Was this the right call? No. Did she do it for the right reasons? Of course, which is usually the case when she makes mistakes.

[SmallvilleMan]

This is more like it. There are some true fanboys (and girls) of Lana, for whom she can do no wrong, but those are very few and far between. Most of us that bother to defend her do so with a full knowledge of the mistakes she has made. For Lana, yes she has made mistakes, but the people that give her the benefit of the doubt can see that *most* of the time (read: empasis on most) when she makes mistakes she ends up doing the wrong thing for the right reason. Or she does the wrong thing, in our eyes, because she does not have background knowledge that we, the audience, have to know the logical repercussions of her actions. But again, she usually does the wrong thing for the right reason.

Exactly and in fact, it's most of these lana haters who seem to have the "Chloe can do wrong" montra with them. Some people choose to see things from the third party view, instead of seeing them from the character's point of view. We all know Lana made mistakes, but she's never done anything that wasn't forgivable or so bad, that she should be made out to be a bad person. Lana is a good person at heart.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
They have shown you. Relic, is a great example. Jor-el comes down to earth, falls in love. He and Louise love each other deeply, but he can't be with her, because of his higher purpose. Then she dies right in front of his eyes and there was nothing he could do. That's Clark and Lana in a nutshell. So, who better to understand that, then Jor-el? Another example, saving the one you love, sacrificing yourself to protect the one you love as in Clark. Sounds like he can emphaize with Clark completely. As for him giving Clark empathy, he shouldn't have to, that's not his job. He wants Clark to find the strength within himself. He did tell Clark that he loves him.

For one, Joe was so far out of left feild for me, I have a hard time thinking of him as Jor-El. This whole, "Kryptonians used Earth as a nifty vacation spot," thing bothered me.

Also, the Jor-El Clark is interacting with isn't the real Jor-El. It's an AI, a construct. Who's to say his experiences on Earth were intergrated into it's programing? And, even if they were, who's to say the AI "feels" those experiences on an emotional level?

And, also, I don't look upon Joe and Louise as anything anyone, including Clark, should use a model for having a good, long-term relationship.

[SmallvilleMan]

For one, Joe was so far out of left feild for me, I have a hard time thinking of him as Jor-El. This whole, "Kryptonians used Earth as a nifty vacation spot," thing bothered me.

Well it happened and it's a show fact. And as I recall it was a punishment for Joe.


Also, the Jor-El Clark is interacting with isn't the real Jor-El. It's an AI, a construct. Who's to say his experiences on Earth were intergrated into it's programing? And, even if they were, who's to say the AI "feels" those experiences on an emotional level?

He told Clark he loved him and it may not be the Jor-el's real self, but it's him and all his knowledge of himself.


And, also, I don't look upon Joe and Louise as anything anyone, including Clark, should use a model for having a good, long-term relationship.

Never said I did either. Their relationship wasn't long at all, but it wasn't a bad thing. Just two people who fell in love and wanted to be together. Nothing wrong with that, at all.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Exactly and in fact, it's most of these lana haters who seem to have the "Chloe can do wrong" montra with them. Some people choose to see things from the third party view, instead of seeing them from the character's point of view. We all know Lana made mistakes, but she's never done anything that wasn't forgivable or so bad, that she should be made out to be a bad person. Lana is a good person at heart.

Yes and some people like to speak for the whole viewership.

"Chloe knowing is the best part of this season."

Umm, not for me. I could miss every scene she has with Clark and it wouldn't hurt the episode for me at all.:p

[myankskent]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Exactly and in fact, it's most of these lana haters who seem to have the "Chloe can do wrong" montra with them. Some people choose to see things from the third party view, instead of seeing them from the character's point of view. We all know Lana made mistakes, but she's never done anything that wasn't forgivable or so bad, that she should be made out to be a bad person. Lana is a good person at heart.

I agree with both of you. Even though I like Lana, she annoys me at times, but so does every character. I get annoyed at Clark every show for not doing more superman related things, it doesn't make me want him off the show or any of the other characters for that matter. Do I think that Lionel is a ruthless man, absolutely, but I love that about him. The one thing that I can say is that there is no character on this show that I absolutely hate with a passion, which I think is a good thing because it makes me enjoy the show more than others who hate certain characters.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
They have shown you. Relic, is a great example.

I would agree except that the experience Jor-El had in Relic has never been shown to influence his behavior with Clark. He has never shown any hint of that compassionate individual that we saw in Relic when he is dealing with Clark. Jor-El has absolutely no patience for Clark's feelings for his human companions. You would *think* he would understand this very well, given what we saw in Relic, but again, that just never shows up in their conversations at all. If it did, it would go a long way towards humanizing Jor-El, which is something his character needs.

[LuckyKrypto]

Didn't Clark break Chloe out because Lex was going to have her commited at Lana's request?

I see what you're saying about Lana in this episode to a point. I don't think she did anything wrong other than going to Lex. I don't know why she would go to Clark for help with Chloe. I mean isn't she still in the dark about his powers?
But to her credit, I thought the scene at the hospital in Chloe's room showed just how scared she was and I think to an extent she pulled a Clark by running to Lex for help. (She seemed hesitent about asking him, but knew he has power and influence to get things done)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Yes and some people like to speak for the whole viewership.

"Chloe knowing is the best part of this season."

Umm, not for me. I could miss every scene she has with Clark and it wouldn't hurt the episode for me at all.:p

Well I do like the Clark/Chloe parts, but I think when the Lana/Clark scenes are done properly, they are better than anything on this show, with the exception of the intense Lex/Clark scenes. Lana and Clark could either be the best thing in the world, or the worst thing in the world. Right now, it's pretty bad but I have hope that it will get better later on, even if they do breakup.

[SmallvilleMan]

I would agree except that the experience Jor-El had in Relic has never been shown to influence his behavior with Clark. He has never shown any hint of that compassionate individual that we saw in Relic when he is dealing with Clark. Jor-El has absolutely no patience for Clark's feelings for his human companions. You would *think* he would understand this very well, given what we saw in Relic, but again, that just never shows up in their conversations at all. If it did, it would go a long way towards humanizing Jor-El, which is something his character needs.

You'd think he would, but that's not the way Jor-el does things. He wants Clark to be ready and he can't be fooling around with human emtions. Jor-el believes he has to push Clark, which he does. Also it may be a show fault, because another thing made me upset at relic. That was the fact that clark didn't seem to realize that louise knew joe's secret and she was fine with it. It didn't make sense to me that Clark didn't noticed that. You'd think it would be the first thing he noticed.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
For one, Joe was so far out of left feild for me, I have a hard time thinking of him as Jor-El. This whole, "Kryptonians used Earth as a nifty vacation spot," thing bothered me.

Exactly. There is NOTHING in the Clark/Jor-El conversations that would lead you to beileve that the Relic Joe and the Jor-El of the FOS/ship are the same person. Even if I believe they are the same person (and I do) if I had never seen Relic, there would be no hint that this kind of empathy and compassion is within Jor-El's emotional repertoire. That's why that character, Joe, sticks out as a bit of an anomaly in my mind. Not to say that the Jor-El of the FOS couldn't come around to better representing Joe in future episodes, but he sure hasn't done it yet.

[SmallvilleMan]

Exactly. There is NOTHING in the Clark/Jor-El conversations that would lead you to beileve that the Relic Joe and the Jor-El of the FOS/ship are the same person. Even if I believe they are the same person (and I do) if I had never seen Relic, there would be no hint that this kind of empathy and compassion is within Jor-El's emotional repertoire. That's why that character, Joe, sticks out as a bit of an anomaly in my mind. Not to say that the Jor-El of the FOS couldn't come around to better representing Joe in future episodes, but he sure hasn't done it yet.

They made a point of saying how being sent to Smallville was for a reason, because of that episode. Have to go by what the writers say or the point the character is making.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by LuckyKrypto
Didn't Clark break Chloe out because Lex was going to have her commited at Lana's request?

I see what you're saying about Lana in this episode to a point. I don't think she did anything wrong other than going to Lex. I don't know why she would go to Clark for help with Chloe. I mean isn't she still in the dark about his powers?
But to her credit, I thought the scene at the hospital in Chloe's room showed just how scared she was and I think to an extent she pulled a Clark by running to Lex for help. (She seemed hesitent about asking him, but knew he has power and influence to get things done)

Did Lana really suggest Belle Reve, or did Lex? I thought Lana just went to lex for help because he has the money to help as well as the experience because he did go crazy back in season 3. Not a bad move by Lana if you ask me.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
Did Lana really suggest Belle Reve, or did Lex?

It was Lana. She asked specifically about his experience in Belle Reve, and she didn't have to finish the thought when he said he'd make the call to get Chloe help.

[BadToad]

Of course its a bad move by Lana, because she has NO right. No right at all to trust Chloe's well-being to Lex. She knows that Chloe is not close to Lex. And Lana also knows that Lex is into some shady stuff. No, not as much as Clark and Chloe knows, but Lana DOES know.

You just don't trust your friends well-being over to someone else (especially some like Lex) unless you can be absolutely certain that 1. They'll be safe and 2. They'd be OK with it. And Lana had no assurances about either of those things. If Lana really and truly believed that Chloe would be safe in Lex's hands, then I'm going to have to assume that Lana is a moron. And I don't want to believe that Lana is a moron. Untill she hooked up with Lex, I never thought she was a moron. To facilitate Lexana, they are definitely making Lana a moron.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
They made a point of saying how being sent to Smallville was for a reason, because of that episode. Have to go by what the writers say or the point the character is making.

I actually like Relic a lot, I think it's a great episode in its own right. But the portrayal of Joe is SO unlike Jor-El, it just sticks out as a major inconsistency. I guess you can make the case that Jor-El learned the hard way that following his human-influenced emotions while on Earth was a bad idea, and so is trying to beat that tendency out of Clark with a whole truckload of tough love. It would just be nice to see him say, "look, I know what it is like to fall in love, but you can't let that guide your actions..." etc.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Never said I did either. Their relationship wasn't long at all, but it wasn't a bad thing. Just two people who fell in love and wanted to be together. Nothing wrong with that, at all.

Sorry, I thought Louise came of as pretty weak and passive aggressive. And Joe wasn't no great shakes neither. On the whole, I found their "love" escapist and less than admirable. Plus, something about cheating being treated as romantic doesn't sit well in my noggin. But that's just me.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BadToad
Of course its a bad move by Lana, because she has NO right. No right at all to trust Chloe's well-being to Lex. She knows that Chloe is not close to Lex. And Lana also knows that Lex is into some shady stuff. No, not as much as Clark and Chloe knows, but Lana DOES know.

You just don't trust your friends well-being over to someone else (especially some like Lex) unless you can be absolutely certain that 1. They'll be safe and 2. They'd be OK with it. And Lana had no assurances about either of those things. If Lana really and truly believed that Chloe would be safe in Lex's hands, then I'm going to have to assume that Lana is a moron. And I don't want to believe that Lana is a moron. Untill she hooked up with Lex, I never thought she was a moron. To facilitate Lexana, they are definitely making Lana a moron.

Again, the wrong move for the right reasons. Lex is always in easy reach, and was the only one capable of making a move to Belle Reve happen "within the hour". From what she could see, Chloe had already tried to kill herself once and was only heading downhill after that. Wrong move for the right reasons.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
Of course its a bad move by Lana, because she has NO right. No right at all to trust Chloe's well-being to Lex. She knows that Chloe is not close to Lex. And Lana also knows that Lex is into some shady stuff. No, not as much as Clark and Chloe knows, but Lana DOES know.

You just don't trust your friends well-being over to someone else (especially some like Lex) unless you can be absolutely certain that 1. They'll be safe and 2. They'd be OK with it. And Lana had no assurances about either of those things. If Lana really and truly believed that Chloe would be safe in Lex's hands, then I'm going to have to assume that Lana is a moron. And I don't want to believe that Lana is a moron. Untill she hooked up with Lex, I never thought she was a moron. To facilitate Lexana, they are definitely making Lana a moron.

So why did Chloe go to Lex at the end of season 3 for help against Lionel? Why did she trust Lex to get her out of the situation?

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by BadToad
Of course its a bad move by Lana, because she has NO right. No right at all to trust Chloe's well-being to Lex. She knows that Chloe is not close to Lex. And Lana also knows that Lex is into some shady stuff. No, not as much as Clark and Chloe knows, but Lana DOES know.

You just don't your friends well-being over to someone else (especially some like Lex) unless you can be absolutely certain that 1. They'll be safe and 2. They'd be OK with it. And Lana had no assurances about either of those things.

Clark doesn't trust Lex, he hasn't trust him in a long time and Clark still goes to Lex for help when he needs it.

Clark went to Lex to save Lana's life in Thirst.

So why is Lana in the wrong when she goes to Lex when she's really worried about her best friends well being? :confused:

Would you had rather Lana not done anything, walked out of the room and portend it never happened?

I don't get what you people keep nagging on about.

[Lana_Lang #1]

I have to completely agree.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Because you don't have a girlfriend who cheated on you.
Girls when they need help do not go to guys, unless:
A) they want to make their boyfriend jealous
B) they want to cheat.
C) they want a new boyfriend.

So Clark is rightfully jealous and turned off by lana the lex leaner.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Lana_Lang #1
I have to completely agree.

:) Uh, there's been like 4 dozen posts on this in the past 2 hours. Which do you agree with? C'mon, lay your cards on the table, which side are you on?

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Clark doesn't trust Lex, he hasn't trust him in a long time and Clark still goes to Lex for help when he needs it.

Clark went to Lex to save Lana's life in Thirst.

So why is Lana in the wrong when she goes to Lex when she's really worried about her best friends well being? :confused:

Would you had rather Lana not done anything, walked out of the room and portend it never happened?

I don't get what you people keep nagging on about.

Oh boy, you just put an end to this whole thing. I can't believe that I didn't think of that. Great job Kreukie.

[BadToad]

Season 3 is then, this is now. You don't think things change? Have you seen Chloe trust, or even associate with Lex since then? You haven't seen Chloe, and Clark's, attitude change towards Lex since then? Heck, you haven't seen Lana's attitude change since then?

What happened in season 3 is the past. These characters aren't in the same place now as they were then.

Clark accepted help from Lex twice this season. Once in Thirst, which was a life or death thing for Lana and Chloe. There weren't other options. In Exposed, Lex offered his help, Clark didn't ask (or refuse it), and there really wasn't any trust issue involved.

And yes, I would rather Lana have done nothing but be a supportive friend then have her go to Lex and deliver Chloe into his hands. Yes, I would've had a lot more respect for Lana had she done that. Or had she done what Chloe would've obviously wanted...which is Lana going to Clark.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by Kreukie


Would you had rather Lana not done anything, walked out of the room and portend it never happened?

I don't get what you people keep nagging on about.

It might have been nice is she consulted the one relative she has in smallville (or wait, call her dad) before literally dragging her off to Bellereeve with Lex.

Dude, I know you love KK. Your best bet is that some producer get her out of her LL role and give her another TV show as she is a very good young actress. The producers at SV have reduced LL to an oblivious idiot.

[SmallvilleMan]

Sorry, I thought Louise came of as pretty weak and passive aggressive. And Joe wasn't no great shakes neither. On the whole, I found their "love" escapist and less than admirable. Plus, something about cheating being treated as romantic doesn't sit well in my noggin. But that's just me.

They had like a minute of combined screen time, not much you can do with that.


Girls when they need help do not go to guys, unless:

Really? Something seems very wrong with that statement.

[Damali]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
It might have been nice is she consulted the one relative she has in smallville (or wait, call her dad) before literally dragging her off to Bellereeve with Lex.

To be fair noone consulted Gabe, not Lois, Clark or the doctors. Chloe herself didn't even ask for her father. This wasn't something that Lana did wrong....this was plothole.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
Season 3 is then, this is now. You don't think things change? Have you seen Chloe trust, or even associate with Lex since then? You haven't seen Chloe, and Clark's, attitude change towards Lex since then? Heck, you haven't seen Lana's attitude change since then?

What happened in season 3 is the past. These characters aren't in the same place now as they were then.

Clark accepted help from Lex twice this season. Once in Thirst, which was a life or death thing for Lana and Chloe. There weren't other options. In Exposed, Lex offered his help, Clark didn't ask (or refuse it), and there really wasn't any trust issue involved.

And yes, I would rather Lana have done nothing but be a supportive friend then have her go to Lex and deliver Chloe into his hands. Yes, I would've had a lot more respect for Lana had she done that. Or had she done what Chloe would've obviously wanted...which is Lana going to Clark.

Things have changed since season 3, Chloe found out about Clark's secret and Lana did not. You can't fault Lana for going to Lex because she doesn't have the information that Chloe has. Chloe, knowing Clark's secret, has the ability to put the pieces together and realize that Lex is potentially a dangerous enemy to Clark. Lana isn't aware of this. The post above by Kreukie settled this anyway, if Clark can go to Lex when Lana was in trouble, Lana could go to Lex if Chloe was in trouble. You, as the viewer, know that Lex will probably help Chloe to help himself, meaning interrogate her about Clark when she's vulnerable. Lana, however, doesn't know this. You have to understand that or else you are not accurately judging her character.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by Damali
To be fair noone consulted Gabe, not Lois, Clark or the doctors. Chloe herself didn't even ask for her father. This wasn't something that Lana did wrong....this was plothole.

of course it was. it's not KK's fault that the writers have made her character an idiot.

plus, lex and lana could not have chloe committed. her father would have to do that (and even then it's not a simple task). so the whole premise was a plothole.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by BadToad

And yes, I would rather Lana have done nothing but be a supportive friend then have her go to Lex and deliver Chloe into his hands. Yes, I would've had a lot more respect for Lana had she done that. Or had she done what Chloe would've obviously wanted...which is Lana going to Clark.

I'm starting to doubt any of this, because one anti-Lana person complains she didn't do anything when she was in the room, than another complains when she goes looking for help, to help Chloe.

Everything Lana does is looked upon as being bad regardless what it is for a lot of you.


Originally posted by myankskent
Things have changed since season 3, Chloe found out about Clark's secret and Lana did not. You can't fault Lana for going to Lex because she doesn't have the information that Chloe has. Chloe, knowing Clark's secret, has the ability to put the pieces together and realize that Lex is potentially a dangerous enemy to Clark. Lana isn't aware of this. The post above by Kreukie settled this anyway, if Clark can go to Lex when Lana was in trouble, Lana could go to Lex if Chloe was in trouble. You, as the viewer, know that Lex will probably help Chloe to help himself, meaning interrogate her about Clark when she's vulnerable. Lana, however, doesn't know this. You have to understand that or else you are not accurately judging her character.

Exactly!

[SmallvilleMan]

Everything Lana does is look upon as being bad regardless what it is for a lot of you.

DING DING, show her what she's won:D ;)

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Clark doesn't trust Lex, he hasn't trust him in a long time and Clark still goes to Lex for help when he needs it.

Clark went to Lex to save Lana's life in Thirst.

So why is Lana in the wrong when she goes to Lex when she's really worried about her best friends well being? :confused:



Well, I don't trust lawyers and politicians but that wouldn't stop me from asking them for help.

Lana is in the wrong because she's the only person in the whole wide (fictional) world that keeps forgetting Lex is scum.

[BadToad]

Chloe, knowing Clark's secret, has the ability to put the pieces together and realize that Lex is potentially a dangerous enemy to Clark. Lana isn't aware of this.

Do you not remember the episode Hidden? Do you not remember Lana coming to Lex's house with the medical file and throwing it at him? Do you not remember Lana telling Lex that she knows he was trying to get it? Do you not recall her telling him off?

Saying Lana isn't aware of Lex's obsessive interest in Clark is false. The proof is in Hidden.

Again, look at Lana's flip-flopping in Splinter. She storms into Lex's house, accusing him of purposely infecting Clark with the meteor rock. Does that sound like something someone would do if they had faith in that person? Lana's line to Lex "You just can't stand to see us together". Showing awareness of Lex's obsession with her and Clark, and how she perceives it was a danger.


The post above by Kreukie settled this anyway, if Clark can go to Lex when Lana was in trouble, Lana could go to Lex if Chloe was in trouble.

No, not at all. One gigantic difference here. Clark knows that Lex will help Lana, because he does have a relationship with her. Lana knows Lex and Chloe have no real relationship with each other. You are comparing apples and oranges.


You, as the viewer, know that Lex will probably help Chloe to help himself, meaning interrogate her about Clark when she's vulnerable. Lana, however, doesn't know this. You have to understand that or else you are not accurately judging her character.

And IMO, Lana should, and I am giving you factual evidence from episodes that aired this very season to back up why I feel that way. I think I am accurately judging the character, and I believe you have to take into account the actual things Lana has said and done this season.

Lana may not know as much as Clark and Chloe. Granted. But to claim she knows nothing? Its just not true. She knows. For some unknowable reason, she's apparently choosing to ignore it. Its baffling to me.

ETA: Sorry, but I am not a Lana hater. I have never been a Lana hater. I don't want to be forced by the show to become a Lana hater because she suddenly starts acting brain damaged.

[SmallvilleMan]

Scum who saved her life. That kind of earned him some points with her. Not to mention it took Clark four and a half years to realize that.

[Damali]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
of course it was. it's not KK's fault that the writers have made her character an idiot.

plus, lex and lana could not have chloe committed. her father would have to do that (and even then it's not a simple task). so the whole premise was a plothole.

So why blame Lana 'cause Gabe wasn't mentioned?

A lot of the storyline made little sense, but wanting to get someone medical help made sense, whether Chloe's father was there or not Lex and Lana were trying to do something.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
Do you not remember the episode Hidden? Do you not remember Lana coming to Lex's house with the medical file and throwing it at him? Do you not remember Lana telling Lex that she knows he was trying to get it? Do you not recall her telling him off?

Saying Lana isn't aware of Lex's obsessive interest in Clark is false. The proof is in Hidden.

Again, look at Lana's flip-flopping in Splinter. She storms into Lex's house, accusing him of purposely infecting Clark with the meteor rock. Does that sound like something someone would do if they had faith in that person? Lana's line to Lex "You just can't stand to see us together". Showing awareness of Lex's obsession with her and Clark, and how she perceives it was a danger.



No, not at all. One gigantic difference here. Clark knows that Lex will help Lana, because he does have a relationship with her. Lana knows Lex and Chloe have no real relationship with each other. You are comparing apples and oranges.



And IMO, Lana should, and I am giving you factual evidence from episodes that aired this very season to back up why I feel that way. I think I am accurately judging the character, and I believe you have to take into account the actual things Lana has said and done this season.

Lana may not know as much as Clark and Chloe. Granted. But to claim she knows nothing? Its just not true. She knows. For some unknowable reason, she's apparently choosing to ignore it. Its baffling to me.

ETA: Sorry, but I am not a Lana hater. I have never been a Lana hater. I don't want to be forced by the show to become a Lana hater because she suddenly starts acting brain damaged.

Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Lana should know that Lex would interrogate Chloe to get information on Clark based on your above post? Give me a break.

[Happy Random]

Originally posted by Damali
A lot of the storyline made little sense, but wanting to get someone medical help made sense, whether Chloe's father was there or not Lex and Lana were trying to do something.

True, but hasn't it been established that Belle Reeve is not a good place? :\ I didn't think that Lex's experience there was that great, so you would think that he at least would want to spare Chloe that experience. And doesn't Lana know something of his experience? :\

[LuckyKrypto]

Originally posted by myankskent
Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Lana should know that Lex would interrogate Chloe to get information on Clark based on your above post? Give me a break.

Maybe not know that Lex would interrogate Chloe, but at least be a little more hesitant about going to him.

(Which I think they tried to have Lana come across as, just maybe not as well as some of us would like)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Happy Random
True, but hasn't it been established that Belle Reeve is not a good place? :\ I didn't think that Lex's experience there was that great, so you would think that he at least would want to spare Chloe that experience. And doesn't Lana know something of his experience? :\

No, all she probably knows is that Lionel intentionally put Lex in there when Lex didn't need to be. She felt that Chloe needed to be based on what she saw. This is getting ridiculous, I feel like people are just taking every little thing that Lana does throughout this series and questioning it.

[jimmyolsenblues]

The goal of the story is to reunite Chloe and her mom.
I don't think they did a good job.
The show resembled a bad B horror movie more then it resembled Smallville.
I seen movies like this on the scifi show on 1am.
This was a great season, and the quality of the last two shows is a drop off the table from episode 100.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by Happy Random
True, but hasn't it been established that Belle Reeve is not a good place? :\ I didn't think that Lex's experience there was that great, so you would think that he at least would want to spare Chloe that experience. And doesn't Lana know something of his experience? :\

everyone in the fictional world knows that except lana.

i think lana is developing a case of "memento-ism".

they're gonna have to tatoo on her right hand "Clark is good" and on her left hand "Lex is bad". "Do not trust Lex". "Bellereeve and Summerholt are bad".

you get the point.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Happy Random
True, but hasn't it been established that Belle Reeve is not a good place? :\ I didn't think that Lex's experience there was that great, so you would think that he at least would want to spare Chloe that experience. And doesn't Lana know something of his experience? :\

For Lex, he knows that Belle Reve is the place to go for all your illicit mind-altering experimentation - like extracting everything he could from Chloe.

For Lana, I can't think of any reason why he would know about Lex's experiences in Belle Reve. Maybe there is some hint that she would know, but I just can't think of anything in particular. It's just the place where the numerous "unbalanced" Smallvillians go to get treated.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
everyone in the fictional world knows that except lana.

i think lana is developing a case of "memento-ism".

For your information, the asylum is not a bad place if you belong there. What we saw of the asylum is what was done by Lionel. They weren't going to fry chloe's brain if she was put in there for good reason.

[LuckyKrypto]

Originally posted by myankskent
I feel like people are just taking every little thing that Lana does throughout this series and questioning it.

Just remember to take a deep breath and keep in mind this is just a TV show :)

Truth be known, I actually like Lana :p
(That doesn't mean that there aren't things about the writing of her character that drive me nuts!)

[BadToad]

Are you kidding me? You're telling me that Lana should know that Lex would interrogate Chloe to get information on Clark based on your above post? Give me a break.

No, what I'm pointing out to you is that we have evidence this season that Lana knows Lex is up to no good, and shouldn't necessarily be trusted.

I am curious though. You brought up Chloe's interaction with Lex in season 3 as proof of a trust between her and Lex, but I give you an example of Lana's words and attitudes from 7 episodes ago, and thats just ignored?

[Happy Random]

Originally posted by myankskent
No, all she probably knows is that Lionel intentionally put Lex in there when Lex didn't need to be. She felt that Chloe needed to be based on what she saw.

Ok, but aren't a lot of those people in there FotW's that she and Clark landed in there? Or is that Summerhole? If it is Belle Reeve, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to stick Chloe in with a bunch of guys that probably want to extract some kind of revenge on her. If I am thinking of Summerhole, I apologize and just ignore this. :)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
No, what I'm pointing out to you is that we have evidence this season that Lana knows Lex is up to no good, and shouldn't necessarily be trusted.

I am curious though. You brought up Chloe's interaction with Lex in season 3 as proof of a trust between her and Lex, but I give you an example of Lana's words and attitudes from 7 episodes ago, and thats just ignored?

No, what I am saying is that if Chloe trusted Lex back as far as the beginning of season 4, what happened between then and now between them that caused Chloe to not trust Lex. If you guessed Chloe finding out Clark's secret, then you win. Of course Lana knows that there is something wrong with Lex, but it is not nearly to the extent that Chloe knows. Plus, Lex has helped Lana throughout her life many more times than Chloe. Do you expect Lana to just forget about that, especially when Clark isn't honest with her?

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Happy Random
Ok, but aren't a lot of those people in there FotW's that she and Clark landed in there? Or is that Summerhole? If it is Belle Reeve, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to stick Chloe in with a bunch of guys that probably want to extract some kind of revenge on her. If I am thinking of Summerhole, I apologize and just ignore this. :)

No, you're right. The freaks generally get sent off to Belle Reve, not Summerholt.

But what would Lana know about either place? What she said to Lex about him going there and them helping him probably represents the sum total of everything she knows about the place.

[Happy Random]

Originally posted by LuckyKrypto
Just remember to take a deep breath and keep in mind this is just a TV show :)

Truth be known, I actually like Lana :p

lol!! :lol: So true! She really isn't that bad of a character. :)

[myankskent]

Originally posted by Happy Random
Ok, but aren't a lot of those people in there FotW's that she and Clark landed in there? Or is that Summerhole? If it is Belle Reeve, it probably wouldn't be a good idea to stick Chloe in with a bunch of guys that probably want to extract some kind of revenge on her. If I am thinking of Summerhole, I apologize and just ignore this. :)

Meteor freaks are not the only ones who go to belle reve. Even if Lana knew that, people with "mental" problems go there as well. That is something that Chloe was showing signs of so this idea that the asylum is this dangerous place is stretching it.

[LuckyKrypto]

Maybe, but it's a pretty big thing to have someone committed

[myankskent]

We're talking about having her looked at by someone in there. If Chloe clearly wasn't going crazy then she would be let out. We're making it seem like if Chloe goes in there she will die. It's not even a big deal if you ask me.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by myankskent
For your information, the asylum is not a bad place if you belong there. What we saw of the asylum is what was done by Lionel. They weren't going to fry chloe's brain if she was put in there for good reason.

if the dr.s in the asylum can be controlled by lionel, then the asylum IS a bad place!

and i see you are one who thinks lex's only motivation was to help chloe.

c'mon. he knows chloe has the goods on clark. please go watch commencement and arrival again.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
We're talking about having her looked at by someone in there. If Chloe clearly wasn't going crazy then she would be let out. We're making it seem like if Chloe goes in there she will die. It's not even a big deal if you ask me.

This can be looked at two ways: I think what you're saying as it relates to Lana is correct - she did want to have Chloe evaluated at Belle Reve.

Lex, on the other hand, would not have stopped at evaluation and would have pressed ahead with full-on invasive neurological procedures in a vat of meteor-juice to suck the truth right out of her.

But would Lana know that was his intention? No. *Should* she have known that? This is where the "good intentions versus clueless" line seems to be drawn today.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
if the dr.s in the asylum can be controlled by lionel, then the asylum IS a bad place!

and i see you are one who thinks lex's only motivation was to help chloe.

c'mon. he knows chloe has the goods on clark. please go watch commencement and arrival again.

Of course I know that, but my point is that Lana doesn't know that.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by myankskent
Of course I know that, but my point is that Lana doesn't know that.

D'Oh! My bad. :o :o :o

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jwoodie
This can be looked at two ways: I think what you're saying as it relates to Lana is correct - she did want to have Chloe evaluated at Belle Reve.

Lex, on the other hand, would not have stopped at evaluation and would have pressed ahead with full-on invasive neurological procedures in a vat of meteor-juice to suck the truth right out of her.

But would Lana know that was his intention? No. *Should* she have known that? This is where the "good intentions versus clueless" line seems to be drawn today.

Let's put it this way, if Clark was the one that was going to be committed, Lana should know that Lex would try to get answers, but Chloe? Lana doesn't know that Chloe knows about Clark so why would she ever think that Lex would do anything to her. I'll say this again, the audience knows about Lex's intentions but Lana does not. You can't judge her on what we know and expect her to magically know the same thing.

[BadToad]

No, what I am saying is that if Chloe trusted Lex back as far as the beginning of season 4, what happened between then and now between them that caused Chloe to not trust Lex. If you guessed Chloe finding out Clark's secret, then you win.

I disagree with you. I believe Chloe came upon her distrust of Lex, and Luthors in general, due to her investiging them. For proof of that, look at S4's Scare, which was before she knew Clark's secret. She is immediately suspicious of Luthorcorp's involvement, while Clark gives Lex the benefit of the doubt. Her alliance with Lex at the end of season 3 was a mutually beneficial situation, but it wasn't really a "buddy-buddy, I trust you" sort of deal. IMO, Chloe didn't start to distrust Lex due to knowing Clarks secret. She just gained a deeper understanding of things.


Of course Lana knows that there is something wrong with Lex, but it is not nearly to the extent that Chloe knows.

But even knowing that much, don't you believe that should be enough to cause Lana to stop and pause before going to Lex about Chloe? Isn't even having the suspicion enough to question Lana's decision here?


Plus, Lex has helped Lana throughout her life many more times than Chloe. Do you expect Lana to just forget about that, especially when Clark isn't honest with her?

If Lana chooses to entrust her OWN well-being to Lex, that is her decision. If she chooses to trust Lex, who has been dishonest with her, over Clark who she supposedly loves, who has been dishonest with her, with her own well-being, thats fine. I don't get it, but her choice. Whether or not Clark is honest with her, Lana still showed distrust in regards to Lex THIS season. But, I'm not taking issue with that. That is not this situation.

And here's another thought. Before Lana decided that Chloe would be better off at Belle Reve, don't you think she should've tried to pull up a little information on the place? No, again, she just takes Lex's word for it. And I don't get that.

[Kris-El]

Originally posted by BadToad
No, what I'm pointing out to you is that we have evidence this season that Lana knows Lex is up to no good, and shouldn't necessarily be trusted.


Lana knows that Lex is up to no good??? Whatever she was mad at him for this season or in the past all seems to be justified, and all we have seen as of lately are examples of his trust in her and her gratification because of it. Hes becoming one of the few people she KNOWS she can rely on no matter what.

I think that obviously, she went to him out of genuine concern for Chloe, and I dont see how anyone could argue otherwise. As for her knowledge of Belle Reeve, I think its pretty obvious that we're to assume that Lana dosen't know all of the bad things that happened there to Lex.

Lex is the one who should be blamed, for either using bad judement in wanting to send Chloe there or for being an ass in wanting her to go there to get information out of her.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by myankskent
... the audience knows about Lex's intentions but Lana does not. You can't judge her on what we know and expect her to
magically know the same thing.

Exactly. The same people that want to say that she *should* know all of these things and that she's just clueless are the same people that stand at the ready to assign all sorts of devious and despicable motives to every action she takes, however well intentioned. For people on this side of the "good intentions/clueless" fence, Lana can do nothing right.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by BadToad
I disagree with you. I believe Chloe came upon her distrust of Lex, and Luthors in general, due to her investiging them. For proof of that, look at S4's Scare, which was before she knew Clark's secret. She is immediately suspicious of Luthorcorp's involvement, while Clark gives Lex the benefit of the doubt. Her alliance with Lex at the end of season 3 was a mutually beneficial situation, but it wasn't really a "buddy-buddy, I trust you" sort of deal. IMO, Chloe didn't start to distrust Lex due to knowing Clarks secret. She just gained a deeper understanding of things.



But even knowing that much, don't you believe that should be enough to cause Lana to stop and pause before going to Lex about Chloe? Isn't even having the suspicion enough to question Lana's decision here?



If Lana chooses to entrust her OWN well-being to Lex, that is her decision. If she chooses to trust Lex, who has been dishonest with her, over Clark who she supposedly loves, who has been dishonest with her, with her own well-being, thats fine. I don't get it, but her choice. Whether or not Clark is honest with her, Lana still showed distrust in regards to Lex THIS season. But, I'm not taking issue with that. That is not this situation.

And here's another thought. Before Lana decided that Chloe would be better off at Belle Reve, don't you think she should've tried to pull up a little information on the place? No, again, she just takes Lex's word for it. And I don't get that.

You're referring to things that happened at the very beginning of the season. This stuff was fleshed out in splinter when Lex came clean about the spaceship and warned lana that clark was not himself. This allowed Lana to put her full trust in Lex again because of that episode. As for investigating Belle Reve, you're really stretching it there. It's a mental institution. Of course she will think that it will help chloe.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Its not that complex.
If your boyfriend is being spied on by evil guy.
Don't run to evil guy every time you break a nail and expect your boyfriend to say, "I love it when you turn to evil guy"

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
Its not that complex.
If your boyfriend is being spied on by evil guy.
Don't run to evil guy every time you break a nail and expect your boyfriend to say, "I love it when you turn to evil guy"

And yet boyfriend runs to evil guy for help in thirst.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BadToad
And here's another thought. Before Lana decided that Chloe would be better off at Belle Reve, don't you think she should've tried to pull up a little information on the place? No, again, she just takes Lex's word for it. And I don't get that.

This is funny. Her best friend seems very much interested in ending her own life, but Lana should do a little research on Google first. Maybe check out their press releases for any signs of illegal, FDA-unapproved neurological work.

What did she do? She went to Lex, asked him about his own experience at Belle Reve, and wondered if they might be able to help Chloe, too. Went to LEX, the only person she knows with first hand knowledge of the place and knowing that he went in crazy as a loon and came out ready to bake cookies and sing campfire songs.

But no, she shoulda Google'd it first...

[BadToad]

You're referring to things that happened at the very beginning of the season. This stuff was fleshed out in splinter when Lex came clean about the spaceship and warned lana that clark was not himself. This allowed Lana to put her full trust in Lex again because of that episode. As for investigating Belle Reve, you're really stretching it there. It's a mental institution. Of course she will think that it will help chloe.

Actually, if you are going accuse people of "stretching it", please try and get your facts straight. First of all, it was Lana that told Lex that Clark wasn't himself in Splinter, not the other way around. And Lana accused Lex of infecting Clark with the meteor AFTER he had already showed her the ship, not before. So, to say her issues of trust were resolved by that are incorrect.

All I can say is that I would check out a mental institution before I would consign my friend there without her consent. Perhaps you, and I guess Lana, differ. I disagree with that type of thinking. Of course, I wouldn't be shipping my friend off to an insane asylum less then 24 hours after an out-of-the-blue incident either. Especially in a loopy place like Smallville, where every single major character has taken a trip to crazy town at least once.


But no, she shoulda Google'd it first...

No really, its much better to send your friend there without checking it yourself at all. Yeah, thats a great plan. Hey, I have an idea, instead of goggling it, why not call your boyfriend and ask him? That would've taken, what, 10 minutes?

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by jwoodie
This is funny. Her best friend seems very much interested in ending her own life, but Lana should do a little research on Google first. Maybe check out their press releases for any signs of illegal, FDA-unapproved neurological work.



No. SHe should have called her best friend's dad (or at least her cousin). You know, the guy that put a roof over her head and fed her when Nell left town?

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
No. SHe should have called her best friend's dad. You know, the guy that put a roof over her head and fed her when Nell left town?

No argument with this. The fact that Gabe was left out the mix completely is just silly. I mean, her mother was in the episode - who we've NEVER seen before - and Gabe didn't even come up as a topic of disucssion? Nope, no argument from me on this point. But again, as I keep saying, she made the wrong call for the right reasons.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by myankskent
And yet boyfriend runs to evil guy for help in thirst.

he turns to lex as a last resort. not as a first option.


Originally posted by jwoodie
No argument with this. The fact that Gabe was left out the mix completely is just silly. I mean, her mother was in the episode - who we've NEVER seen before - and Gabe didn't even come up as a topic of disucssion? Nope, no argument from me on this point. But again, as I keep saying, she made the wrong call for the right reasons.

well i agree with that 100%

however, even if clark never said one word about why he doesn't trust lex, you would think she would have asked her best friend and college roomate her feelings on lex.

of all the creepy moments between lana and lex over the seasons leading up to commencement/arrival, you have to at least understand why we feel lana is clueless (to put it gently).

[MBCorp]

Wow, I'm totally shocked that a Smallville character would act in an inconsistent and badly written fashion. I mean, isn't this the show that's famed for it's brilliant continuity? :p

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by MBCorp
Wow, I'm totally shocked that a Smallville character would act in an inconsistent and badly written fashion. I mean, isn't this the show that's famed for it's brilliant continuity? :p

Now I'm shocked! How can you criticize TPsTB??? I would never... OK, I can't even pretend to defend them. :lol:

[BadToad]

And doesn't that just say it all MBCorp? :lol: (still love the show though).

Really folks, I don't dislike Lana. I don't want to dislike Lana. But she freaked me out this week. Good intentions, but clueless execution? OK, I'll buy that. Just please, oh please, let her not do this again.:rolleyes:

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
of all the creepy moments between lana and lex over the seasons leading up to commencement/arrival, you have to at least understand why we feel lana is clueless (to put it gently).

Yeah, but I would add something to that. I think you would agree that, this season at least, Lex is a completely different person when he is around her versus anyone else. Whether he's put on the "good Lex" facade or he is truly just fighting his nature tooth-and-nail, especially since Lexmas, I think it's fair to say that Lex, around Lana, is a completely different animal. I mean, I think of the scene from Reckoning when she asks why someone would lie to the person they love, and he puts his hand on her should and says, "I wouldn't". Can you imagine that in any other season? And they've had a lot of those moments lately, with him laying it on pretty thick. And Lex has a long history of coming to her aid whenever she has asked, so if she thought this was the best course for Chloe (unwise, maybe, but just looking at it from her perspective) then Lex was the go-to guy for this, especially given his recent attitude-adjustment towards her.

So, I can see the "clueless" card being played. And yes, I'm spinning it my way, just like everyone else. But for me it just comes down to making the wrong call for the right reasons, and who other than Lex could make the Belle Reve thing happen on a moment's notice?

Also, I don't think her going to Lex in this instance and being suspicious as hell of his motives in general are mututally exclusive. Everything I've seen between them, with the possible exception of the panic room scenes in "Lockdown", have been just riddled with suspicion and doubt on her part. Every look, every action, is met with a very uneasy look on her part - she knows that he has feelings for her and she doesn't trust those feelings at all. That's why I can't see the Lex/Lana thing going anywhere (whole other discussion).

But even with that in play, Lex is still the go-to guy to make this Belle Reve thing happen. And since he can't possibly refuse a request from Lana Lang, and since she believes this is the best course of action for Chloe (I know, it's not her decision... go find Gabe and let him make the decision...), that makes her decision to go to Lex make perfect sense.

So, clueless? I think she's got her eyes wide open when it comes to Lex.

[myankskent]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Yeah, but I would add something to that. I think you would agree that, this season at least, Lex is a completely different person when he is around her versus anyone else. Whether he's put on the "good Lex" facade or he is truly just fighting his nature tooth-and-nail, especially since Lexmas, I think it's fair to say that Lex, around Lana, is a completely different animal. I mean, I think of the scene from Reckoning when she asks why someone would lie to the person they love, and he puts his hand on her should and says, "I wouldn't". Can you imagine that in any other season? And they've had a lot of those moments lately, with him laying it on pretty thick. And Lex has a long history of coming to her aid whenever she has asked, so if she thought this was the best course for Chloe (unwise, maybe, but just looking at it from her perspective) then Lex was the go-to guy for this, especially given his recent attitude-adjustment towards her.

So, I can see the "clueless" card being played. And yes, I'm spinning it my way, just like everyone else. But for me it just comes down to making the wrong call for the right reasons, and who other than Lex could make the Belle Reve thing happen on a moment's notice?

Also, I don't think her going to Lex in this instance and being suspicious as hell of his motives in general are mututally exclusive. Everything I've seen between them, with the possible exception of the panic room scenes in "Lockdown", have been just riddled with suspicion and doubt on her part. Every look, every action, is met with a very uneasy look on her part - she knows that he has feelings for her and she doesn't trust those feelings at all. That's why I can't see the Lex/Lana thing going anywhere (whole other discussion).

But even with that in play, Lex is still the go-to guy to make this Belle Reve thing happen. And since he can't possibly refuse a request from Lana Lang, and since she believes this is the best course of action for Chloe (I know, it's not her decision... go find Gabe and let him make the decision...), that makes her decision to go to Lex make perfect sense.

So, clueless? I think she's got her eyes wide open when it comes to Lex.

Well once again, we are seeing every second of every show and we have witnessed lex being evil in many circumstances. Lana has not. You are right on that lex behaves differently around her than around everyone else. She definitely doesn't trust lex completely, but in this case, she made a decision to do what she did because she thought she was helping Chloe. People that blame her for doing I guess just want her to mess up in every situation possible so they can complain about her some more.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Yeah, but I would add something to that. I think you would agree that, this season at least, Lex is a completely different person when he is around her versus anyone else. Whether he's put on the "good Lex" facade or he is truly just fighting his nature tooth-and-nail, especially since Lexmas, I think it's fair to say that Lex, around Lana, is a completely different animal. I mean, I think of the scene from Reckoning when she asks why someone would lie to the person they love, and he puts his hand on her should and says, "I wouldn't". Can you imagine that in any other season? And they've had a lot of those moments lately, with him laying it on pretty thick. And Lex has a long history of coming to her aid whenever she has asked, so if she thought this was the best course for Chloe (unwise, maybe, but just looking at it from her perspective) then Lex was the go-to guy for this, especially given his recent attitude-adjustment towards her.

So, clueless? I think she's got her eyes wide open when it comes to Lex.

From this argument, I don't see how you can think she is not clueless.

Yes from this season he is acting differently to Lana (after lying to her about the spaceship that is). So she just forgets the other 4 years and says, hey this is the real lex. everyone else is so wrong.

From what my wife tells me, most women can tell when a guy is putting the moves on them. So again, Lana is clueless.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
From this argument, I don't see how you can think she is not clueless.

Yes from this season he is acting differently to Lana (after lying to her about the spaceship that is). So she just forgets the other 4 years and says, hey this is the real lex. everyone else is so wrong.

From what my wife tells me, most women can tell when a guy is putting the moves on them. So again, Lana is clueless.

Ok, I guess I wasn't very clear with my point there.

Actually, I think she knows perfectly well that he's putting the moves on her. But from my position out here in the audience, Lex seems like he's trying to be a better person for Lana's sake. He may not know how to go about doing that, exactly, and he ultimately he will be unsuccessful, but I don't think it's an act - I think it is a direct result of Lexmas. He made the wrong choice in the end of that episode, but in his mind, HE was making the wrong choice for the right reason. Namely, that he thought the way to achieve that life was simply by the force of his own will. But I think that experience hangs very heavily on him, and I think he's trying to be that man that Lana could love.

But back to my point - I think Lana knows all of this. She can see that he is a different person than he's been with her previously. They have a long history, going back to the first season, so this change should be obvious. She doesn't trust his feelings, and you can see that every time they're together. The scene in "Vengeance" had ample proof of that. She doesn't trust this new Lex, but the change is so drastic that she doesn't know what to think. That's not clueless, that's trying to make sense of someone like Lex.

But, again, even if is or is not clueless about Lex's feelings for her, that's a separate issue from the fact that Lex could make the Belle Reve thing happen. If you can at least acknowledge the possibility of simple, ill-advised but good intentions on her part, then going to Lex makes perfect sense. Wrong move, right reasons.

[Liriel]

I don't really have much problem with Lana in this ep. If you want to know why I do in general, I'll explain it.

Every character does good and bad things. But until this season, Lana was never called on the bad stuff - people apologized to her when she wronged them.

She has serious "backup boyfriend" issues - I'm going to assume this derives from a need for security and to be taken care of.

She's very ungrateful sometimes. I still get so irritated when she badmouths Nell - a woman who tried to do her best by Lana and raised her and adopted her and loved and said that adopting her was the best thing ever.

But mostly I get irritated because TPTB seem to chant "Lana does no wong" and "you must love Lana"

I do not hate her. I was indifferent to her for three seasons. Disliked her in the fourth. I was liking her much better in the first 8 or 9 eps of the season, but frankly that's passed with the last few eps. She was so much more interesting when she was doing something on her own and not asking for or accepting help. Also when she wasn't on the "secret and lies" kick - I don't hate Lana, but I do hate Clana - it's just so repetitive.

[LuckyKrypto]

Originally posted by jwoodie

Actually, I think she knows perfectly well that he's putting the moves on her. But from my position out here in the audience, Lex seems like he's trying to be a better person for Lana's sake. He may not know how to go about doing that, exactly, and he ultimately he will be unsuccessful, but I don't think it's an act - I think it is a direct result of Lexmas.

You know I don't know that I would say that Lana is clueless. Isn't it part of the show that many people in Smallville don't trust the Luthors because of Luthor Corp and how they have treated many of the towns people?

I can totally see what you're saying about her trying to help her friend, 'wrong choice, right reasons'. But I still think having someone committed is a big decission. (I know the writers are using it to drive that wedge between Clark and Lex :rolleyes: ) But it disappoints me that Lana jumped right to Lex for help. If she knows that he has feelings for her and she is still in love with Clark I think she needs to be a little more cautious around him.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Liriel
Every character does good and bad things. But until this season, Lana was never called on the bad stuff - people apologized to her when she wronged them.

She has serious "backup boyfriend" issues - I'm going to assume this derives from a need for security and to be taken care of.

She's very ungrateful sometimes. I still get so irritated when she badmouths Nell - a woman who tried to do her best by Lana and raised her and adopted her and loved and said that adopting her was the best thing ever.

But mostly I get irritated because TPTB seem to chant "Lana does no wong" and "you must love Lana"

I like Lana a lot, obviously since I seem to be carrying the torch for her more and more lately, but I agree almost completely with this analysis/criticism of her. I've said enough lately about the things I like about her character, and this is a very fair assessment of her flaws.

[shirkie]

Poor Lana has 3 minutes of screentime and gets ripped to shreds. You know things are getting a little ridiculous when an avowed Lana-hater like myself feels bad at the ripping!

I think they should have just left the Lana/Lex stuff out of "Tomb." It made no sense and added nothing to the episode.
shirkie

[DARKRAGE]

Originally posted by shirkie
Poor Lana has 3 minutes of screentime and gets ripped to shreds. You know things are getting a little ridiculous when an avowed Lana-hater like myself feels bad at the ripping!

I think they should have just left the Lana/Lex stuff out of "Tomb." It made no sense and added nothing to the episode.
shirkie

Shirkie I totally agree, as much as I like Lana I feel she has run her course, she should still be in France and fORgotton about like PETE

[Happy Random]

Originally posted by LuckyKrypto
You know I don't know that I would say that Lana is clueless. Isn't it part of the show that many people in Smallville don't trust the Luthors because of Luthor Corp and how they have treated many of the towns people?

I can totally see what you're saying about her trying to help her friend, 'wrong choice, right reasons'. But I still think having someone committed is a big decission. (I know the writers are using it to drive that wedge between Clark and Lex :rolleyes: ) But it disappoints me that Lana jumped right to Lex for help. If she knows that he has feelings for her and she is still in love with Clark I think she needs to be a little more cautious around him.

Good points. :)

[nique_2003]

Originally posted by jwoodie

My answer to the first question is no - she believed Chloe needed professional care, not a get out of jail free card. You can argue about whether she *should* have jumped to the "Chloe would never kill herself, she must be possessed" conclusion, but that's just not how she thinks. Her focus is always on the practical, the tangible first, and is constantly shocked by the supernatural or the unbelievable. Chloe being possessed is not the first thing she would have thought of - probably was not even on the list of things she would consider without definitely proof - and settled on the easiest, most likely scenario, that there was something very wrong with Chloe. That, to Lana, would not imply an exorcism, it would imply doctors with expertise in this area. A la Belle Reve.



I think this analysis is right on. Unlike Chloe, who is willing to jump a person to "Wall of Weird" status relatively quickly, Lana gives the rules of the "real world" the benefit of the doubt first even if experience tells her that supernatural stuff happens frequently in Smallville. She would rather believe that her friend and roommate went insane than first consider the possibility of something else going on. Ironic considering the whole spaceship thing and her being posessed by a long dead witch and a depressed Prom Queen. Hmm... This would go to explain why Lana will never figure out Clark's secret on her own--it would never occur to her, or if it did she'd kill that thought before it was fully expressed--and explain why so many people have a hard time dealing with Lana's character--she refuses to acknowledge the reality in which she lives and in doing so unknowingly separates herself from... everyone.

For instance, she can never be close to Clark or the Kents because... well... Clark's an alien. He doesn't fit into her reality. Clark's been afraid to tell her all this time because she has been hesitant toward the supernatural in subtle, yet genuine ways, such as assuming someone is operating under normal circumstances until absolutely proven otherwise.

Chloe has fully embraced all things weird, so the two of them have a different world view, thus can never be close. More than acquaintance, but a lot less than a best friend. I get the feeling that if Chloe were to come up to Lana with her latest theory Lana'd be bored by it or would dismiss it. Unless something weird is happening to her directly or she is very closely involved with the wierdness, she probably won't believe it. Makes sense in real life, but in Smallville it only alienates her.

Lois... sides with her cousin. She hasn't quite accepted the weirdness, but then she also hasn't been in Smallville that long either. In any case, I think that in order to be close with her you'd have to be close to Chloe as well, which we've already established Lana can't be.

So that leaves Lex... I don't think Lana is the right type of person to get under Lex's skin. She's good, kind, and he has idealized notions about her, but I think that's where it stops. If Helen Bryce had not turned out to be evil, I think her character would have been strong enough to make a good man out of Lex. Lana, however, not so much.

That's the entire current cast minus Lionel. The sad part is that this is mostly due to Lana, herself. really wouldn't have expected him to She refuses to accept the way things are in Smallville, and because of that she manages to alienate the good people around her. This is illustrated in Tomb: she goes to try and help her friend, Chloe, by going to Lex who can get her the help she needs since she's obviously off balance. If the setting wasn't Smallville this would have been an OK move given that Chloe isn't entirely sure of Lex's motives and question her. The problem is more the fact that she refused to give Chloe the benefit of the doubt first given that there weren't any prior signs. It's an insult to Chloe, and Lana is so engaged in doublethink--believing that something is true even though the evidence says otherwise--she doesn't even realize she's done anything wrong.

If the story of Superman were open to any ending possible than I expect that there would still be hope for Lana. If Lana knew Clark's secret, her fear of being labeled a bigot would keep them together for at least a while, and probably long enough for her to truly begin to accept the strange world she lives in. She really doesn't need Clark at all in fact. I could envision a heart to heart between Chloe and Lana in which Chloe questions Lana's motives for going to Lex and Lana examines why it is she's afraid to accept the supernatural. However, chances are good that neither of these things will happen, and Lana will remain a character that frustrates me and many other viewers. *Sigh*

[smallvillerocks45]

Originally posted by myankskent
You trash Lana for not going to Clark with the problem and going to Lex. Let me ask you something, who does clark go to for help, Lana or Chloe? And why does Clark go to Chloe? That's right, because he is actually honest with her and not honest with Lana. I love it how people rip on a girl who is constantly being lied to and call her whimpy and say that she complains about everything.

I don't want you to think that I'm entirely trashing Lana. As I previously stated, I usually like Lana. I wasn't analyzing Lana's character as a whole, because as most people do, she's going to react according to the context of the given situation. It's just that this time, in regard to this particular situation, I don't think she was being fair to Clark. Why didn't Clark tell her that he took Chloe out of the hospital? Because he was focused on helping Chloe, and then later finding her - maybe he didn't have time. I just thought that Lana took it too personally.

Does Clark lie to Lana? Absolutely, but I think his heart is in the right place. [I would love to see him take another shot at telling her the truth, but that's a different story, a different thread.] All I was saying was that I was disappointed by Lana's reaction to Clark's actions in this episode, while at the same time she clearly avoided telling Clark that she went to Lex. Her heart was in the right place too when she went to see Lex, but to question Clark's honesty for not telling her about what he did when she did a similar thing (in that, she didn't tell Clark that she saw Lex) just didn't seem fair...maybe I'm wrong (or was wrong) to think that...but I was just posting what I felt at the time.

[BoSoxJim]

how do i word this???

i think people are having trouble separating KK from fer character LL.

just because one is critical of how her character is mishandled on the show does not mean we are being critical of KK.

i think KK does a very good job for the most part (as does everyone on the show, except aquaman).

to be honest, my main reason for watching smallville is to see the journey clark takes in becoming superman. secondary is seeing how lex becomes the evil criminal mastermind.

everything else is not as important.

however, i expect the writers to be consistent with how they portray their characters, not leave a half dozen plotholes per episode and keep the most basic of continuity from episode to episode (not really that hard).

with the case of lana, if someone can actually make the case of how the writers have portrayed her in a positive light, i'm listening.

if you're just a huge KK fan, then i'm sorry. she would be best suited on her own show.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
how do i word this???

i think people are having trouble separating KK from fer character LL.

I'm not sure if I was intended for this category of "people", but I don't do this. I think KK is great, I think she brings a lot of subtlety to the role that doesn't originate on the pages of the scripts. It's hard to know for sure since I'm not privvy to those scripts, but her performances are often multi-layered so you can hear something in her tone and her expressions that betrays a depth of feeling that her words (ie. the writers' words) don't always do.


just because one is critical of how her character is mishandled on the show does not mean we are being critical of KK.

i think KK does a very good job for the most part (as does everyone on the show, except aquaman).

to be honest, my main reason for watching smallville is to see the journey clark takes in becoming superman. secondary is seeing how lex becomes the evil criminal mastermind.

everything else is not as important.

however, i expect the writers to be consistent with how they portray their characters, not leave a half dozen plotholes per episode and keep the most basic of continuity from episode to episode (not really that hard).

with the case of lana, if someone can actually make the case of how the writers have portrayed her in a positive light, i'm listening.

if you're just a huge KK fan, then i'm sorry. she would be best suited on her own show.

I'll agree with all of this as well. Sometimes I think that the show continuity is a difficult thing to manage over multiple seasons. But then I hear Chloe say that her mom left when she was 12, contradicting what she said in Scare ("my left when I was 5...") and I think, "maybe they make it hard on themselves". But whatever, you're right that we should expect this type of continuity, and Lana's character has been a difficult character to keep "relevant" to the action-oriented story arcs. As much as I carry the torch for her in that regard, I recognize that some of the attempts to make her relevant may have done the opposite. To me, it just shows that TPTB have a firm commitment to her, from the pilot to the last episode, come hell or high water. Some people will absolutely hate that, but it's true. And their repeated attempts at making her relevant, NO MATTER WHAT, bear that out. Just is what it is.

I really hesitate to add this here, but since you asked, and since I've been one of a handful of people making the case for Lana over the course of this thread, what the hell. Sorry it's so long and sorry if it takes this too far off topic, but I added it to the Lana forum (actually I think it got moved there) a few weeks back and then it fell into the ether at some point. So rather than start a whole thread on it, here it is:


The case for Lana

Well, this will probably be met with a chorus of boos, judging by the reaction to this thread so far. And I would not even be so presumptuous as to think I might change those people's minds. But somebody has to stand up for Lana here, so I guess I'll take that charge.

I understand that some people have big problems with the Clark and Lana relationship on the show. But the way I see it, their relationship is absolutely core to the heart of the show. I've written this elsewhere, but I'll reiterate it here. The show, to me, is about 2 fundamental things: 1) the young Clark Kent discovering his own inner abilities, origins, destiny and dealing with the fact that he walks among humans but is not one of them, and 2) the relationships that surround Clark, that ground him and give his life meaning, allowing him to develop his own unique humanity. I see his parents as the main shepherds for Clark through #1 and I see Lana as the heart of #2.

At this point, we've seen a lot of Kryptonians roll through the plains of Kansas and none of them was too keen on the idea of human compassion, of love, of sacrifice, of loyalty, or any of the other things that both the Kents and Lana have shown Clark. It is through them that Clark will evolve through this, the most difficult period of adjustment in the life of the future Superman-to-be. We've seen countless meteor-freaks prowling the streets of Smallville, all of them changed in some way by the meteor rocks and displaying abilities similiar to Clark, but most of them warped by their powers instead of enhanced. In this way, Clark becomes the anti-meteor-freak, the person that can withstand the temptation to wield his powers with reckless abandon. Clark's real strength, then, is that moral center, that humanity, that he gains from the people around him, that keeps him on the right path. Lana is absolutely central to this theme.

Lana's influence on Clark is central to the show but let's just take a quick look at her character in isolation. Even in the early episodes, she is never shallow or one-dimensional. She fills the role of Clark's pedastal-topper and damsel in distress, true, but they have gone out of their way to give Lana outlets outside of Clark that round out her character. She helps with the blood drive, she volunteers a the retirement home, she drops cheerleading and gets a job. She is not waiting around for either Clark or Whitney in order to find her identity. She may recognize when she starts to have feelings for Clark, but she is mature enough to recognize at the same time that Whitney needs her during that period. When Whitney is gone, she handles the end of their relationship with a maturity well beyond a young teenage girl.

Most importantly to her character, she never has blinders on when it comes to Clark - she knows when he is lying to her or at least trying to peddle some half-truth and that hurts her. The truth matters to her, and she is mature and strong enough to recognize that there will never be a healthy relationship as long as Clark will not be honest with her. Obviously this has repercussions even today, but she has remained consistent in this way throughout most of the 4+ seasons, and that is a credit to her character.


This is a tangent, but it's hard to tell how much of Lana comes from the pages of the script and how much comes from Ms. Kreuk's performance of her. So much of what makes Smallville great is the non-verbal communication between the characters and the private anguish that Lana shows the audience but hides from Clark when she knows he is lying and doesn't understand why is palpable. Lana is certainly no doormat.

When she does branch out in the second season, mostly in the form of the Talon, it is not in taking an after-school job but in seizing a real opportunity to secure her future ambitions, a risk taken by a maturing young woman of real confidence. This development is part of a trend on the show to assign to Lana a maturity well beyond her age, which I think is a credit to the show and benefits from the more-than-capable acting chops of Kristin Kreuk. The Talon will become a central pillar in her life, giving her an identity separate from Clark and school, separate from the victim that many people have always seen her as. Even if the situation doesn't play as true to reality - putting a business almost entirely into the hands of a teenage girl - the fact that she takes the initiative to formalize her proposal to Lex and follow through so successfully on the execution of that proposal definitely makes her a role model for her contemporaries. Add to that the fact that it doesn't all come magically easily to her - she struggles at first to keep the doors open in "Drone" - but that she's willing to fight for her convictions, this makes it clear that Lana is truly an extraordinary young woman to match Clark's idealized vision of her. I believe it is a credit to the show, as well, that the creators were not content to let her remain as solely the object of Clark's affections and the constant damsel-in-distress. Name me another teenage female character on TV with the intelligence, wisdom, drive and ambition of Lana Lang? No, I'm serious, I'd be curious to hear other comparisons, maybe there are others. I know there are other strong women, but typically a "strong" young woman (in her age category) is considered strong for all the wrong reasons - loose morals, a cynical or wicked personality, a person with no respect for anyone including herself. But Lana has never been like that, and in trying to think of another character of her caliber, the only one that comes to mind is Chloe Sullivan herself, and I think the strength of both of those young women is a key element of Smallville.

In the third season, when Clark inexplicably cannot commit to her, she gives him his due chances, given their history, but she is not willing to just forgive and forget all of the lies without a strong commitment to honesty on Clark's part. When he refuses to do that, she happily leaves him behind - with Seth in "Magnetic", later with Adam and finally as "the girl who goes to Paris."

Throughout the show, Lana may pine for Clark a lot, but I think you have to cut her some slack for that. I mean, even if she knows nothing about his abilities, Clark is an extraordinary young man. He is intensely loyal to his friends, always putting himself in harm’s way whenever there is someone who needs help, and she sums it up pretty nicely in “Drone” when she says he has an innate sense of justice, that she can see it on his face whenever he thinks that someone is being mistreated. Given that as the basis for their friendship, I can cut her some slack for wanting to be with Clark. The fact that he is hopelessly, utterly in love with her from the first time they talk in the cemetery just adds to that level of longing between them. Again, I cut her some slack. And yet, she doesn’t fall for him blindly. She makes it very clear, in the first episode after Whitney is gone, “Vortex”, that the only way they can ever work as a “them” is if he is honest with her. Yes, that becomes a common refrain in the show, but that’s to her credit. She’s not willing to just let him lie to her and let that go. She KNOWS when he is lying to her (again, that goes back to what I said about Kristin’s performances) even if she never comes out and accuses him of lying to her face. And when he does lie to her, and she knows it, she doesn’t just let that go. The truth matters to her, and again, that is to her credit as a strong young woman. As strongly as they both feel for each other, she is not willing to just give in to those feelings and ignore the lying. All that is to her credit. And the stuff above the Talon may not be realistic, but it does set an example as a driven, ambitious young woman that is sorely lacking from prime time television. Even if the writing for the character is often uneven (something that’s out of Kristin’s hands), the overall character growth, starting off as a stereotypical cheerleader in the pilot and growing into a strong, independent young woman is commendable.

Now, people have said that Clark has actually digressed this season in his emotional development, and I would say the same thing about Lana. She seemed to abandon those strong character traits from the previous season just to be with Clark, all the lying be damned. That is a step backwards, regardless of what you think about them sleeping together. But overall, Lana is a strong character with a good sense of self. People say that she’s just there to pine after Clark, and that just isn’t the case. Even though working her into the mythology with the witch story arc wasn’t all that successful, that’s not Kristin’s fault either.

Finally, let's look at Lana's role in Smallville. It has been clear since the pilot that the show would revolve around Clark, Lana and Lex. They may represent a love triangle at this point in the game, but that didn't happen for a long time. For the people that cannot countenance Lana being Lois' equal, that is just ignoring the reality of the show. In Smallville, there is no future with Lois, at least not from Clark's point of view. Clark, like most teenagers, has trouble fathoming what his life will be like in 5 or 10 years down the road, and doesn't spend much time thinking about it. The show makes this abundantly clear, and that seems to irk some people here, but that's just the point of view that the show takes. And if he's not thinking about his future, what is he thinking about? 1) Lana Lang and 2) all the craziness in his life.

If we can take anything from Clark's Metropolis days and bring it into Smallville, we know that Clark Kent has a penchant for focusing like a laser on the women in his life, even with all of the other crazy things going in his life. He sees Lois and immediately falls head over heels for her. With Lois, that kind of instant attraction is allowed to grow into a mature relationship because he is more mature and ready for that kind of relationship. But back in Smallville, he still has that same tendency - he focuses on Lana, he becomes very close in a very short period of time with both Kyla and Alicia, etc. The poor guy cannot stand not to be in a relationship, no matter how unhealthy it may be. But can you blame him? I mean, he has to be the most lonely person on the planet, with all of these abilities and responsibilities and only his parents to confide in. So, Smallville has made the Lana the focus of that part of Clark's personality. My point is that this is just another incarnation of the fixation that Clark will develop later for Lois. That relationship later on will have its own problems when Lois falls in love with Superman, not Clark Kent (at first), but Clark's fixation on her remains the same. Here, that fixation is with Lana. Does that make Lois better than Lana or vice versa? No, the relationship is very similar (the unrequited love, the lies, the secret identity that Clark doesn't feel he can share, the strong and indenpendent woman that steals his heart, etc.) but it is allowed to grow into something more mature only down the road when Clark is more mature. Is that realistic? Of course it is, that's what happens in life and that's why people don't generally get married to their high school sweethearts (for the record, I did marry that girl and we are still married, thank you very much). But that doesn't mean you can't FEEL like you've met the love of your life when you're 18. That's definitely how Clark feels and to discount that in Smallville just because we as the audience know that it is not meant to be is silly. This isn't "Metropolis", it's "Smallville".

This show is NOT about what Clark will do later in his life, it's about how he manages to navigate the very treacherous waters of his youth, juggling all of the emerging abilities, the revelations about his origins and his destiny, while maintaining those relationships that mean so much to him, despite the lies he has to tell and the secrets he has to keep. Those ideas and themes are the pillars on which the producers have built Smallville and Lana, obviously, is absolutely central to all of that.

Ok, I had no intention of writing a novella on the relative merits of one Lana Lang, so I have to wrap this up. My basic point is that Lana Lang is the Smallville counterpart to the Lois Lane of Metropolis, period. That doesn't make one better than the other, they are simply the object of Clark's affections at different points in his life. The image of Lois Lane as a strong, indepedent, willfull woman who is worthy of that kind of attention is well known. Based on everything above, I think the producers have crafted a character in Lana Lang that is worthy of Clark (or someone that Clark may be worthy of) at this point in his life. Her characterization may be off at times, and the writers have misfired with her on certain things, but the same thing can be said of Lex (how many times has he *actually* been shot? been in a plane crash? the whole "lost on an island" storyline, etc.) but I don't see anyone complaining about that. The difference is that everyone wants to look ahead to Lex's destiny and is willing to let these things go (plus, Lex is admittedly a truly great character, I don't dispute that) and the fact is that Lana Lang has no destiny that is intertwined with Clark Kent. But that doesn't make her any less of a central figure in Clark's life, in his development at this critical time, or any less important in the story that Smallville has chosen to show.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by jwoodie
I'm not sure if I was intended for this category of "people", but I don't do this. I think KK is great, I think she brings a lot of subtlety to the role that doesn't originate on the pages of the scripts. It's hard to know for sure since I'm not privvy to those scripts, but her performances are often multi-layered so you can hear something in her tone and her expressions that betrays a depth of feeling that her words (ie. the writers' words) don't always do.

I was not aiming that comment at any one person. It was basically a "to whom it may concern".

I basically like all of the actors/actresses on the show. I really don't get hung up on how good or bad they are (unless it's an extreme in either direction). The story is what I care most about and as long as the actors can carry it out in a decent fashion, I'm OK with it.

However, bad writing makes me very, very angry! :p

KK can only do so much with what she is given. The writers make LL seem hypocritical and irrelevant. That is not KK's fault (which was what i was trying to get across).

As for the well thought out response you gave, I will have to print it out and read it when i wake up (it's 1:00 AM EST here and the wife is calling). We're supposed to have a huge snowstorm here so I'll have plenty of time :)

WHen I get a chance I'll respond in the Lana Lang character forum (I'll send a PM so you know it's there). Hey, maybe you'll change my mind, maybe not but I appreciate the time you took to express your view.

BTW, I met my wife during my first month at college and we've been together ever since (I was 18 as well). So she wasn't my high school sweetheart but close enough ;)

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
I basically like all of the actors/actresses on the show. I really don't get hung up on how good or bad they are (unless it's an extreme in either direction). The story is what I care most about and as long as the actors can carry it out in a decent fashion, I'm OK with it.

I hate to even say this, but since we're all being open and honest today... I think Tom is often the weakest link as far as acting on the show. He can be outstanding, and he absolutely carries the show and sells the young clark kent. But his emotional range is dwarfed by those around him. It wouldn't even be a factor except that the rest of the cast is so stellar, and of course they have far less screen time as well, and that makes the weak scenes just stick out with him. They are FAR outweighed by the great stuff he does, though. And he has come a long way since season 1.


KK can only do so much with what she is given. The writers make LL seem hypocritical and irrelevant. That is not KK's fault (which was what i was trying to get across).

The thing I hate about LL writing is what I call the Skydiving Segue. They (the writers) do this to her ALL THE TIME but one of the worst examples was on in syndication tonight in "Witness". A Skydiving Segue is one where they make her start out on one subject, then give her a line that no one would ever say that acts as a bridge to whatever the next topic of discussion is. I mention "Witness" because she does not one but I think 3 of them in a row (that would be a "triple" in figure skating) jumping from subject to subject. It's near the end with Clark in the Talon, for those of you keeping score at home. So I completely agree that KK can only do so much with what she's given. Another one that sticks out in my mind was from Reckoning, when Clark says he's from Krypton. SO many questions and comments would leap to mind at that point, but we were pressed for time so she is forced to play the "you're just like everybody else" card so Clark can make his grand gesture and fly into the air. That was almost literally a Skydiving Segue.


BTW, I met my wife during my first month at college and we've been together ever since (I was 18 as well). So she wasn't my high school sweetheart but close enough ;) [/B]

I met my wife in high school - AP Art History - and we've been married for almost 12 years. Maybe that gives me a different perspective on the "she's only his first love" argument, I don't know.

[Fly by guy]

I don't understand the Lana bashing. Since season 2 it has been Clark that won't come through with the truth. He goes to Met. and she wants him back. He kisses Chloe, Lana wants him back. He dates(marries) Alicia who tried to kill Lana, and she wants him back. She only left for Paris because he would not ask her to stay. She turns to Lex about the ship because Clark cuts her off and changes the subject. If Lana has done something wrong it has been hanging on too long. Clark doesn't deserve her love. The truth will set them free. I bow to the "pink princess" for putting herself out there so many times and getting nothing back. Yes, I know this is only MY opinion but I back it up.

[Ky2ndCav]

That's a perspective I haven't heard voiced here!

Lana the victim of Clark instead of the opposite? That one may take a while to sink and see if i can concur!

[jaime,oburg]

I am not the biggest Lana fan by any means, but (can't believe I am posting this) I can't blame her for finally having enough of Clark's same old song and dance. Yah she has done her share of mistakes in the relationship, but I can see her turning to someone who has been (in her mind) honest with her. Lex! Muwhahaha....

I like that Lana is turning to Lex because it is causing the end of god awful/angst ridden Clana. Look at it that way when you get mad at her for running to Lex instead of Clark all the time. The silver lining!;)


Originally posted by MBCorp
Wow, I'm totally shocked that a Smallville character would act in an inconsistent and badly written fashion. I mean, isn't this the show that's famed for it's brilliant continuity? :p

Another reason not to be so harsh with Lana.:lol:

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Fly by guy
I don't understand the Lana bashing. Since season 2 it has been Clark that won't come through with the truth. He goes to Met. and she wants him back. He kisses Chloe, Lana wants him back. He dates(marries) Alicia who tried to kill Lana, and she wants him back. She only left for Paris because he would not ask her to stay. She turns to Lex about the ship because Clark cuts her off and changes the subject. If Lana has done something wrong it has been hanging on too long.
And she had come to that conclusion in Relic after talking with the man who had been in prison for murdering her aunt. She tried to follow through on that, but it didn't last. I agree with you totally, Fly by guy. I think their relationship is a mutual obsession. But this year, they seem to be growing up a little.

[Mrs.Bizzaro]

I like lana and i like the clana...but i have to agree with the people on here that said lana was really annoying in this episode. nique_2003 said it best in her lengthy entry (loved reading it tho...kudos)
...with all the crazy things that happens in smallville not only to all those around her but to lana herself, she turned on chloe in a blink of an eye. How could she possibly immediately think its chloe going crazy instead of something actually happening to her from an outside sorce? Shame on lana for jumping to that conclusion so harshly without giving chloe the benefit of the doubt and believing there was something causing her to act that way. Big TISK TISK for her!! She threw a fit when people didnt believe her about seeing the spaceship.

And yeah, she could have stood up for clark a little when lex was yelling at him about getting chloe out of the hospital.....plus, shame on lex too (we didnt hear him complain when clark was breaking him out of belle reeve...)

And yeah, totally confused when at the end of the episode lana was talking about their relationship...i could have sworn they broke up...what the heck? As Ross from friends would say..."WE WERE TAKING A BREAK!!!!" hahahahhaha, i guess lana and rachel have the same definition on the term "break."

[MissLane]

I think that Clark and Lana is ending.. and it should be because that makes sick almost everyone when we watch an episode...

In 1th,2th,3th Clana meant something but now.. it's time to Metropolis, Lois and start to think as superman

[LuckyKrypto]

Originally posted by Mrs.Bizzaro

And yeah, totally confused when at the end of the episode lana was talking about their relationship...i could have sworn they broke up...what the heck? As Ross from friends would say..."WE WERE TAKING A BREAK!!!!" hahahahhaha, i guess lana and rachel have the same definition on the term "break."

:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I would love to see Clark yell back at her sometime "WE WERE ON A BREAK!!"

Your post totally made me crack up!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Mrs.Bizzaro
And yeah, totally confused when at the end of the episode lana was talking about their relationship...i could have sworn they broke up...what the heck?

I don't understand the confusion about this. Yes, she said she needed a break, back when things were light and easy, back when lies dominated their conversations, back when Clark's father was around to fix that tractor instead of Clark. But all that changed when he died. Imagine the howls of outrage at Lana if she had even hinted that she was going to stick to this proclamation: Yeah, I know your dad died, but I said I needed a break and I meant it!

Both conversations in Vengeance with Clark, plus the one with Lex (where she says *explicitly* that "none of that matters now") should have made this obvious - yes, she needs a break, that much is clear. But being there for the man she loves, has loved for years now even if they haven't been on the same emotional page for all of that time, is far more important right now than their petty relationship differences. And her line about not knowing how to talk to him anymore was right on as well. The proof of this comes 5 seconds later when, instead of talking it out, Clark says *nothing*.


Originally posted by LuckyKrypto
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
I would love to see Clark yell back at her sometime "WE WERE ON A BREAK!!"

Your post totally made me crack up!!
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

but I'll admit that this would be hilarious...

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by jwoodie
Both conversations in Vengeance with Clark, plus the one with Lex (where she says *explicitly* that "none of that matters now") should have made this obvious - yes, she needs a break, that much is clear. But being there for the man she loves, has loved for years now even if they haven't been on the same emotional page for all of that time, is far more important right now than their petty relationship differences.
But she can be there for Clark even if they aren't a couple. For me, the problem with Lana's actions was that she simply cut Clark out of the process, when the two of them should have come together as mutual friends of Chloe. Way back in "Nocturne" she got upset with Clark for trying to help Byron without including her. To me, Lana's comments were odd because the status of their relationship is irrelevant to their lack of communication during this episode.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Kryptonian Snake
But she can be there for Clark even if they aren't a couple. For me, the problem with Lana's actions was that she simply cut Clark out of the process, when the two of them should have come together as mutual friends of Chloe. Way back in "Nocturne" she got upset with Clark for trying to help Byron without including her. To me, Lana's comments were odd because the status of their relationship is irrelevant to their lack of communication during this episode.

No argument on any of these points. I was simply commenting on the large number of times I've seen some version of this quote:

"What's her deal? I thought they were broken up?"

I think that whole conversation was poorly constructed. It was a classic "float" scene, where the writers have some future target "event" in mind (like them breaking up for good in a few episodes, maybe) and they need a scene with the two of them together, but where nothing concrete happens, and there is no hint of resolution in sight. Hence, the "float".

I've defended Lana's actions in this episode plenty before this, so I won't bother again here. But this conversation was more about them as a couple than it was about Chloe anyway. It would probably do them some good to focus on something other than them as a couple, but that would lead to some resolutions, and they (the writers) aren't ready for that to happen just yet. Just a very awkward scene all the way around.

[Lana's Devious]

Originally posted by alm26
Let me start off by saying that I really enjoyed the episode. I think the acting was very good, especially by Allison, she was so amazing, and the plot was pretty good in my opinion as well. Even so, there was something that I really hated about this episode, and it was, in a word, Lana.

First it would’ve been really nice to see Lana stick up for Clark when Lex was being a total jerk at the dormitory, and the fact that she didn’t believe in Chloe didn’t make her anymore appealing either.


You are forgetting that Chloe was walking around staring at the floor saying "Look at all this blood" when there really was none at all. If that was your friend, I'm sure you'd react the way Lana did, thinking Chloe was imagining things.

[attitudejc]

Originally posted by Lana's Devious
You are forgetting that Chloe was walking around staring at the floor saying "Look at all this blood" when there really was none at all. If that was your friend, I'm sure you'd react the way Lana did, thinking Chloe was imagining things.

thats a good point, BUT, we can argue or discuss about that situation forever.

[Conner]

Originally posted by attitudejc
thats a good point, BUT, we can argue or discuss about that situation forever.

I agree with that 100%.:o

[Wildfire]

The problem I have with Lana is after she sees the shape Chole is in why not go to Gabe or Clark, why go to Lex? I mean its like she did not consider anyone else, and she has to know as Chole best firend that Chole doesnt like him so why go to him?

It really feels to me like she betrayed Chole to Lex. . .

[attitudejc]

well, clark or gabe wasn't in belle reeve before nor were they considered crazy. maybe she just thought that he would understand more.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Wildfire
The problem I have with Lana is after she sees the shape Chole is in why not go to Gabe or Clark, why go to Lex? I mean its like she did not consider anyone else, and she has to know as Chole best firend that Chole doesnt like him so why go to him?

It really feels to me like she betrayed Chole to Lex. . .
I'm begnning to think that what Lana did was more a sign of her immaturity and lack of family structure than anything else. She doesn't think of seeking out Nell or Henry when she has a problem, so it doesn't occur to her to go to Gabe or Lois. Although I'm still not sure why she wouldn't go to Clark. That's just odd.

[jwoodie]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I'm begnning to think that what Lana did was more a sign of her immaturity and lack of family structure than anything else. She doesn't think of seeking out Nell or Henry when she has a problem, so it doesn't occur to her to go to Gabe or Lois. Although I'm still not sure why she wouldn't go to Clark. That's just odd.

I wrote this a while back on the whole Lana going to Lex vs. Clark issue:

[clip]
Case in point, "Tomb". Was it the wrong move to go to Lex? I think there is a pretty solid consensus on that. Should she have gone to Clark? Maybe. But Clark's reaction to Chloe's situation was to break her out of the psych ward. 2 questions on this: 1) In Lana's mind, was this the best possible course of action for Chloe, given that she believed Chloe was "unbalanced" to say the least, and 2) In Lana's mind, would the point of going to Clark be that he would immediately break her out?

My answer to the first question is no - she believed Chloe needed professional care, not a get out of jail free card. You can argue about whether she *should* have jumped to the "Chloe would never kill herself, she must be possessed" conclusion, but that's just not how she thinks. Her focus is always on the practical, the tangible first, and is constantly shocked by the supernatural or the unbelievable. Chloe being possessed is not the first thing she would have thought of - probably was not even on the list of things she would consider without definitely proof - and settled on the easiest, most likely scenario, that there was something very wrong with Chloe. That, to Lana, would not imply an exorcism, it would imply doctors with expertise in this area. A la Belle Reve.

My answer to the second question is also no - breaking Chloe out was not her goal and she would not assume that the first thing Clark would do would be to break her out. If her goal HAD been to break Chloe out, would she have gone to Lex? No, she's have turned to Clark.

But what did she know at this point? She knew Lex had been in a similar circumstance, she knew that when he came out of Belle Reve he was much improved, and she knew that, out of anyone in Smallville, he was the probably the only one with the means to help Chloe in that way. So, she went to him. Was this the right call? No. Did she do it for the right reasons? Of course, which is usually the case when she makes mistakes.

[Lana's Devious]

Originally posted by jwoodie
I wrote this a while back on the whole Lana going to Lex vs. Clark issue:

[clip]
Case in point, "Tomb". Was it the wrong move to go to Lex? I think there is a pretty solid consensus on that. Should she have gone to Clark? Maybe. But Clark's reaction to Chloe's situation was to break her out of the psych ward. 2 questions on this: 1) In Lana's mind, was this the best possible course of action for Chloe, given that she believed Chloe was "unbalanced" to say the least, and 2) In Lana's mind, would the point of going to Clark be that he would immediately break her out?

My answer to the first question is no - she believed Chloe needed professional care, not a get out of jail free card. You can argue about whether she *should* have jumped to the "Chloe would never kill herself, she must be possessed" conclusion, but that's just not how she thinks. Her focus is always on the practical, the tangible first, and is constantly shocked by the supernatural or the unbelievable. Chloe being possessed is not the first thing she would have thought of - probably was not even on the list of things she would consider without definitely proof - and settled on the easiest, most likely scenario, that there was something very wrong with Chloe. That, to Lana, would not imply an exorcism, it would imply doctors with expertise in this area. A la Belle Reve.

My answer to the second question is also no - breaking Chloe out was not her goal and she would not assume that the first thing Clark would do would be to break her out. If her goal HAD been to break Chloe out, would she have gone to Lex? No, she's have turned to Clark.

But what did she know at this point? She knew Lex had been in a similar circumstance, she knew that when he came out of Belle Reve he was much improved, and she knew that, out of anyone in Smallville, he was the probably the only one with the means to help Chloe in that way. So, she went to him. Was this the right call? No. Did she do it for the right reasons? Of course, which is usually the case when she makes mistakes.

Holla!

[RedQ]

LANA and the way she talked to Lex was Flawless. The subtext and the rolling of her eyes, PERFECT!

a Few people are getting it and Some are Missing it.

Lana's Mind set: My thoughts and others that pointed it out also.[list=1] After seeing Chloe go crazy in the hospital and standing there unable to help really hurts, and makes me distrought. "I'm going to do something to help. and Not be helpless, even If I have to ask Lex for Chloe's sake."
IF my Best Friend needs help I'm going to do whatever i can to help her. I don't care if my boyfriend is also my bestfriend's Friend.
"Let's see Lex has experience and the means why can't I ask him?" myankskent (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1862581#post1862581)
Liriel
I don't fault Lana for going to Lex for help - farmer's son doesn't exactly have the ability to pull strings to get Chloe into a "top-notch" (I know, it's hard not to laugh) facility.
"Even though Lex is a bit secretive, he always comes clean when i confront him", " he gives valid reasons why he keeps secrets from me" myankskent (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1862743#post1862743) Lex: "normal people don't come back from the dead."
"Lex is still a Friend and He still can be turnred to for advice and help." BoSoxJim (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1863512#post1863512)
"I can't seem to talk to Clark anymore, everytime i get intimate he keeps changing the subject"
Lana came to Clark TONS of times ALL through out SMALLVILLE and Clark pulls back everytime. Fly by guy (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1877849#post1877849)
"Clark's Dad died I don't want bother him details that i do myself, like ASKing for HELP, which Clark never comes to me for help." (he always goes to Chloe that Boyfriend stealing B:p )
Crazy4Smallville
Lana is supposed to be Chloe's best friend. A best friend would know that Chloe is not the suicidal type. No one has their future mapped out in bolder print than Chloe Sullivan. A girl with dreams and ambitions doesn't think about committing suicide.

Also, Chloe is in Smallville. Lana should always question anything that happens out of the ordinary in Smallville. Lana knows about possession - she was possessed by Dawn for Prom, yet not once did it occur to Lana that Chloe wasn't herself? Is she that dense, self-absorbed and stupid?jwoodie (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1863741#post1863741)[/list=1]Clark's Mind Set: My thoughts and others that pointed it out also.[list=1] "I can't tell Lana my Feelings Now, cause of the 100th eps." SmallvilleMan (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1862416#post1862416)
"If Lana knows my secret and she gets Hurt because of it, I'll never forgive myself."
"My Dad just died I have other Responsibilitites to attend to than my selfish love with Lana."
Clark can't confide with Lana with his Secrets. only Chloe can understand and have an Idea what he's going through.
Originally posted by myankskent
You trash Lana for not going to Clark with the problem and going to Lex. Let me ask you something, who does clark go to for help, Lana or Chloe? And why does Clark go to Chloe? That's right, because he is actually honest with her and not honest with Lana. I love it how people rip on a girl who is constantly being lied to and call her whimpy and say that she complains about everything.[/list=1]Gabe Mind set:[list=1] "My Boss is Paying for my daughters Medical services. She's going to get the BEST Medical Attention and I'm supposed to say NO?"
Do you still need that scene to be shown or the fans knows and it's easily understood.[/list=1]Chloe's Mind set: *blub* *blub* *blub* "I'm crazy, No one is listening to me, and my opinion doesn't count" *blub* *blub* *blub* :lol:
People are forgeting what each character knows myankskent (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1863697#post1863697)
It's not that I hate Lana, I just don't care about her.

Boy does my eyes hurt from reading all those text