Has Smallville Jumped the Shark? [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

Nospam

02-06-2006, 03:55 AM

Originally posted by vyperman7
I was skeptical about the introduction of Lois, but I thought it was handled well. I don't think they have handled her position on the show very well though. The first few episodes she was on the show, I really liked the character, and the sexual tension they were showing with Clark. But ever since Devoted, it has been more like an angry brother/sister.

I think the main reason why they put Lois on the show though is because Smallville has always been about the journey of the characters. They probably figured that since they were telling the story of how Clark and Lex would become their future selves, that they should include Lois as well and how she decided to become a reporter.

Why they just didn't have Chloe become Lois though is beyond me. That would have been my number one scenario.

Yeah, Lois is a train wreck:

Dropped out of university.
No current journalistic background or interest.
No burning curiousity or desire to find the truth like Chloe.
Muffin peddler.

The only thing Lois has that indicates any future as a reporter is the name, Lois Lane. For all intents and purpose Smallville Chloe is Lois. I don't want to get into the Chloe = Lois debate, but I simply want to say that TPTB have a real problem on their hands delivering a believable storyline to explain Lois moving towards journalism.

Dannyblue1

02-06-2006, 05:22 AM

I don't think you can really say a show has "jumped the shark" until the show is over. When a show "jumps the shark" it means something happened on the series that made it completely go off the rails, and it never recovered. And, no matter how bad a show has gotten, if it's still in production, there's always a chance (though sometimes slim) it will get better.

And I have no problem with Lois as a character. My problem is the way she's shoe-horned onto the show. Seriously, you can almost feel them trying to come up with exscuses for her to still be on the show, and trying to come up with something for her to do in an episode. And it's like watching someone try to cram one more thing into a box that's already full. As a result, Lois feels like an awkward fit.

Antonios

02-06-2006, 09:06 AM

I was like that but I dont believe that the show was going that bad. Some episodes could be better but in general this season is quite good. Every show has its ups and downs. The show will have at least one more season and it does progress well. Lets not forget that it now target a different audience, more mature.

UpandAtom

02-06-2006, 01:29 PM

I think Smallville jumped the shark back in the Season 3 episode "Slumber". Nudity was what killed the show. Before that ratings were 6.4/10. Now we're lucky to get a 3.2/5.

SuperDub2

02-06-2006, 01:50 PM

i do not think it is weak, i thought part of season4 were and one or 2 episodes in season5 but i tink its one of the best seasons

JLA

02-06-2006, 02:25 PM

I think the show is evolving as you would expect from a show in its fifth season. It is developing characters, allowing them to grow, and moving toward Clark becoming Supes and Lex becoming his arch-enemy. Honestly, how interesting would the show be if it just continued to focus every episode around a different meteor freak.

Now, if they introduce a new character such as Lana's cute little cousin Oliver, then I think you will have a point about jumping the shark....

ZeoVGM

02-06-2006, 03:26 PM

No, it hasn't jumped the shark. Anyone who thinks so is out of their mind.

Last season you might have had a point.

But you in no way can argue that this season is not a HUGE improvement over last season.

How has it gone downhill? Last week was just an alright episode, yeah. But the 100th episode was incredible (especially during repeated viewings) and even if you DIDN'T like it (for some strange reason), what was wrong with the episodes before that? They've been great. The only episodes I can see people logically not like are Thirst and last week's, and even then I think people overreact.

How can you think a show has jumped the shark when it's currently in its most critically acclaimed and most liked sesaon ever?

Tara-L

02-06-2006, 03:29 PM

I think this season has been great so far.... but introducing Lois and having her and Lex with such a close relationship with Clark obviously will give them a great recognization factor..... but in the realm of SV I don't think we'll ever see Clark fully as Superman, nor interacting with Lois and Lex as Superman (meaning they won't have the chance to recognize Clark as Supe) .
yes.... I realize that was confusing. but my grammar has been completely horrible today.

cayayofm

02-06-2006, 03:31 PM

I think Smallville jumped the shark with "Reckoning".

Showstopper

02-06-2006, 03:38 PM

Once they brought on Lois the show jumped the shark. Lois (and some other issues in season four like the witch arc) has sucked so much of the depth out of Smallville. She has no reason to be there and is just FORCEFEED to us in episodes. Her character has about as much depth as a sheet of paper. Hey Lois, dance around in a bikini. Say something sassy to Clark. Occupy time that would be better spent on other characters (like LEX and CHLOE!)

LexLuthorMetropolis

02-06-2006, 04:11 PM

Originally posted by ZeoVGM
No, it hasn't jumped the shark. Anyone who thinks so is out of their mind.

Last season you might have had a point.

But you in no way can argue that this season is not a HUGE improvement over last season.

How has it gone downhill? Last week was just an alright episode, yeah. But the 100th episode was incredible (especially during repeated viewings) and even if you DIDN'T like it (for some strange reason), what was wrong with the episodes before that? They've been great. The only episodes I can see people logically not like are Thirst and last week's, and even then I think people overreact.

How can you think a show has jumped the shark when it's currently in its most critically acclaimed and most liked sesaon ever?

This year it's done it with all the DC characters, that it really doesn't need.

Antonios

02-06-2006, 04:15 PM

It all comes down on whether you enjoy the show or not. No matter the episode I still find myself waiting eagerly for the next one which is what its all about. Since they have me waiting then they have achieved their goal. Enjoy it while it lasts.

Kel-El

02-06-2006, 05:08 PM

I don't think Smallville has jumped the shark. A couple months ago, most people would have said this is the best season yet. Just because some episodes such as "Reckoning" didn't live up to our expectations, it doesn't mean the rest of the series is going downhill. We all just need to wait and see what happens.

And as for Lois on the show, I really don't mind her. But TPTB have an oppertunity to show the audience her true potential and how she gets involved with journalism and maybe why she'd be with Clark in the future. I just don't know why they're not doing it. They have Lois on the show, so they might as well use her.

Rosslyn

02-06-2006, 06:06 PM

Hi to all from a newbie who's glad to be here. I don't think that SV has jumped the shark. If it had, I don't think that I would have become so captivated so quickly with it this season. I'm trying to broaden my horizons beyond my fixation with "Veronica Mars" and, so far, only SV has pulled me in like VM did.

Fly by guy

02-06-2006, 06:19 PM

I'm a newbie too. I think shows like last season's Blank and this season's Solitude that show character and storyline development are the direction SV should follow. Whether you sail a particular ship doesn't matter if the stories are true to the character. I think this season has made Lex, Clark, and Lana appear weak and dumb at times for no reason. Lois has seemed to have nothing to do but be rude or semi-nude. Even Lionel has shown moments of humanity, what's up with that? Best seaon yet, too early to tell for me. I think Reckoning disheartened a Lot of Clana fans, ticked off some Lex fans, and now with Vengeance we could lose some Martha fans if she accepts Lionel. Love the show but hate the plotholes, memory wipes, and character assassinations. At least they won't bring in another Adam for Lana, they already have Lex. Sorry for the rambling.

~*Lois & Clark Fan*~

02-06-2006, 06:21 PM

They jumped the shark with the whole witch arc. What was the whole point of that again? Oh yeah to try and give Lana more importance :rolleyes:

ZeoVGM

02-06-2006, 07:33 PM

Yes, and they have REBOUNDED from season 4.

People, stop living in the past. This is an amazing season.

LexLuthorMetropolis

02-06-2006, 07:36 PM

Like it or not the past effects the present. Especially if you've been watching since S1.

ZeoVGM

02-06-2006, 08:17 PM

.. Right.

No, season 4 sucking doesn't make season 5 suck too. Especially when season 5 is better than most of seasons 1-3.

LexLuthorMetropolis

02-06-2006, 08:27 PM

It's all a matter of opinion.

There are also but a number of factors added to that, but ALWAYS comes down to an opinion. Everyone's here is different and we're all allowed to have them.

SuperVan

02-06-2006, 10:16 PM

There first mistake was their mishandling of Pete. They just used him as the token black guy and never even bothered to develop his character. The only moment that I felt Pete was a real person was when Chloe found him sleeping at the Torch when his parents were going through their divorce. Because of this, they just had a character that they did not know what to do with so they just wrote off a perfectly good comic book character.

I would have like to see him and Chloe explan their relationship, instead of Pete admiting his undying for her and then just run off and never speak of it again.

brandonmincy69

02-07-2006, 05:29 AM

think this has been the best season of Smallville yet. I can't wait to see what the last episode fo the season brings.

MBCorp

02-07-2006, 11:18 AM

My personal opinion is that Smallville jumped the shark during season 4. I have never been able to take the show all that seriously since then and pretty much lost most of my interest in the characters and their storyline.

Thinking about it though, for me it also jumped the shark a bit during season 3 with the lousy writing of the Clark/Lex friendship/rift. That was what interested me in the show in the first place and I was expecting a huge Shakespearian tragedy concerning the Clex rift. My disillusionment of the show began when I suddenly realized that this was not to be, and that the rift was more of a drift than anything else.

SuperVan

02-07-2006, 11:53 AM

At some points of the show I am unsure of the status of Clark and Lex's friendship and Clark and Lana's relationship.

UpandAtom

02-07-2006, 12:16 PM

Originally posted by ZeoVGM
.. Right.

No, season 4 sucking doesn't make season 5 suck too. Especially when season 5 is better than most of seasons 1-3.

I disagree. I don't think that Season 5 is better than 1-3. The first three seasons were when the show got the highest ratings. They were the best plots.

Now, it's like we're seeing the same thing over again. Martha contracts another illness, Lex has someone obsessed with him, Jonathan has a friend who's involved in a political scandal. I don't feel like we're seeing anything new.

Vatusia

02-07-2006, 01:53 PM

Some of you think that the show jumped the shark with the inclusion of Lois. /I/ think the show jumped the shark - fortunately managing to get back on track later, albeit awkwardly - by dropping that huge Chlois anvil in 'Delete'. I was ready to stop watching at that point, and I wasn't the only one. I'll save the rest of my commentary on the matter for the Chlois thread. ;)

I really think there is one big drag on the show, and that's the Lana storyline. Call it waterskiing on the sharks' backs rather than jumping them. ;) I like Kristin Kreuk fine as an actress, I just think the character has been mishandled by the writers so consistently that she is past the point of redemption. They'll try something, then cancel it, then they'll try something else, then retcon it, then they'll... well, you get the idea. Most recent example: Lana's wacky flipflopping between 'Reckoning' and 'Vengeance', between a queen b@#$h who runs out on her fiance to visit with his (and his father's) arch-rival, to little miss 'I need a break... from us!', to last weeks cooer of 'Oh, I searched every pawn shop in Metropolis for your father's watch just so we could have a loft scene to close the show!'

WHEN ARE TPTB GONNA STOP THIS?!?! :mad:

When Clark refused to sleep with Lana after he got his powers back, she should have assumed what every other woman in a similar position would have assumed: 1) that he found her unattractive/disappointing in bed; 2) that he's gay. Instead we got more 'secrets and lies' crap, plus her demanding that he kiss her passionately! (:rotfl: ) She should have gotten an eating disorder. She should have been reading the kama sutra and begging Chloe and Lois to tell her if she was, in fact, getting fat. :lol: Show a little humility, girl! :rolleyes: :rotfl:

TPTB are so determined to keep Lana a cypher that she is ruining the show - and things looked so promising when she was actually getting some development within the Clana relationship (and I'm not a Clanaphile either). I even liked the witch plot, and loved her as Isobel, though I thought that storyline could have been much better integrated into the main Smallville storyline.

We need some forward movement for this character, PTB, or much less of her (like, Pete-level screentime), or ratings are gonna start to sink again, mark my words.

Jlandsw

02-07-2006, 02:13 PM

If Smallville has jumped the shark, why is everyone still here???? CAUSE THIS SHOW KICKS ASS THATS WHY!!!

UpandAtom

02-07-2006, 03:42 PM

There's no doubt that the show is still good, but it wasn't as good as it was when it began. That's how it jumped the shark.

Timester

02-07-2006, 05:26 PM

The show lost its tracks in season 4. In season 5 they tried to correct that AND maintain the status-quo at the same time. It doesn't work that way. Clark this season is worst than ever, Lana is on hers 5.0 version (now with spine included), I no longer know Lex (if he is conflicted or just bad), Chloe is the supreme haker/center of all information on Earth and nearby planets, Lionel... who the hell is Lionel now?

TPTB keep doing the same things over and over, but that no longer works (if ever worked). It's time to move on and finish the story.

cayayofm

02-07-2006, 08:15 PM

^ I think that is, Im tired of the same old. " I can't tell Lana, she won't understand", it got old 3 seasons ago. My hopes were for Reckoning to change all that, but it made things worse.

Lana_Lang #1

02-07-2006, 08:53 PM

*goes to local aquarium

*goes to shark tank

*jump over the shark

* "Mission complete"

UpandAtom

02-08-2006, 10:58 AM

I'm tired of the characters being portrayed inconsistently. Lex is a villain in one episode and a martyr in the next.

HalJordan4184

02-08-2006, 11:10 AM

Exactly, there are better ways to show confliction in your characters. Lex seems more schizophrenic than conflicted. I think he is just a real, well, nutjob. He has to be insane the way they write his flip flopping.

Lana, well, who is Lana anyway. SHe has no personality. One day she's one thing, the next day, she's something different. SHe's like a personality sponge. She just absorbs whatever personality the writers need her to have that week, to make the story work the way they want it to.

Lionel. Good old Lionel. He's the MB again. But at the same time, where the heck did that come from. It'd be nice if they explained what goes on during the times we don't see.

Clark, same old BDA. Still whining, still pining, and still no spine or drive. That, and he sacrificed his dad for Lana. Yes, we all know, Jonathon would have died eventually, but then again, so will Lana. Everything human dies. Clark's dad shouldn't have to die to teach him that. An accident is one thing. Those he needs to learn he can't always be ther for. But apparently, he just needs to talk to God...err... Jor-El, and get magic time crystals when there is an accident. Then someone can just die of a heart attack, or cancer or something else, somewhere else.

And between you and me, I'd take one more scene with jonathon, over an entirely new season with Lana.

Chloe, the Oracle of the Smallville Universe. Chloe, in all honesty, is one character I'm happy with. She's been consistent over the series and has grown. It's too bad she's so hung up on Clark. There are probably tons of guys who would die to be with her. At least she's trying to get him to be some kind of proactive hero, instead of a reactive whiner.

And Martha. What else can I say. Since season three the Kent's have really only been plot devices anyway. More a background object than a person.

Vatusia

02-08-2006, 11:58 PM

Good post, Hal.

Saber

02-12-2006, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Jlandsw
If Smallville has jumped the shark, why is everyone still here???? CAUSE THIS SHOW KICKS ASS THATS WHY!!!

It used to kick ass and now after Reckoning its like WTF happen, there has been no positive character development in Clark. It has been nothing but plot tricks with the introduction of Lois Lane & all the DC characters coming on board now, its overkill. I only hang around this message board & few other boards because I have made so many friends and if anything this show has united me with these fun peeps. Other than that I would have tuned out of Smallville in season 3. It jumped the shark then, now the shark is biting all the characters in the ass and holding on.

Gaara

02-12-2006, 06:04 PM

I'll probably always watch Smallville for however long its on, atleast the majority of it, but I've been a bit disappointed with the character development for the two main characters: Lana and Clark.

Chloe, Lex, Lionel: Honestly, I think they're fine, they arent who I'm worring about. But Lana... I really hated how at the end of season 3, she all of a sudden developed some interest in art and went to Paris. And now she loves astronomy. Then the fact that 3 of her boyfriends have died (two which were evil) and that's she's been in so many disasters... has pretty much left her the same person. But I'll compliment the series on making her wise up to Clark when he's lying, but thats about it. But after all the crap Lana has been through, she should either have a strong personality or be very weak and paranoid of everything. And for the leading female character of a series... she's not very good.

Joey from Dawson's Creek; she's a leading female character (even though I dont really like the series); about all the females in both Buffy The Vampire Slayer and Angel.... they could have been leading female characters... Abby from ER, Meredith from Grey's Anatomy, Sydney from Alias... they are what you call leading female characters. Lana is just annoying. She's attractive, but I mean, (IMO) thats it. I kind of wish Lana was out, and Chloe was the lead; Lana and Clark wont end up together anyway.

Then there's Clark. I guess he's a bit more about accepting his "destiny" then he use to be and now instead of trouble finding him, he usually tries to go out and save people, which is why I compliment season 5 for. But I think the reason why I've never enjoyed Clark that much is because I dont think Tom Welling was the best part for the role. Dont get me wrong, he's looks like Superman, to how he's built to everything about him, but I think they could have hired a better actor instead of getting an underwear model. I read that Tom reportedly rejected the role a few times before excepting it, well the Smallville producers should have just moved on. Its just that ever since the show started, I havent bought him actually being a teenager and I dont think Tom is that powerful as an actor. I find that most of his emotional scenes in the show (like in "Pariah" and "Reckoning") to be somewhat mediocre.

That may have been a rant, but I dont hate the series. I think I'm upset because I like the series so much, that I feel it could be better. If I just saw this as another show, then I wouldnt care, but Smallville isnt using its fool potential.

I dont think the show has jumped the shark yet... the phrase "jump the shark" also means that at that moment, you also realize that the series cant get better, but I think (with the likelyhood of Smallville having at least one more season), that it can get better. And I think season 5 has at least started doing that.

UpandAtom

02-14-2006, 01:12 PM

"Jumping the shark" doesn't necessarily mean that a show's gone bad. "Jumping the shark" means that a show changes its original premise and does whatever it can to stay fresh. There are five criteria that describe when a show has "jumped the shark":

1) Introduction of a new character (i.e. Lois Lane and Jason Teague)

2) Departure of a main character (i.e. Whitney Fordman, Jason Teague, and Jonathan Kent)

3) Change in setting (Smallville to Metropolis)

4) Increased use of sex and violence (need I say more)

5) Change in premise

As you can see, Smallville has fit 4 of the 5 criteria. The premise of Smallville hasn't changed that much. It's still about Clark's road to becoming Superman and Lex's road to becoming evill.

HalJordan4184

02-14-2006, 04:40 PM

I disagree about the changing of the premise. The show started as the journey of Clark Kent to Superman. Though, with Reckoning, they've revealed the majority of the show will be, and has been comprised of Clark's journey, to the point of him going on the journey to become Superman. Even the producers have acknowledged they haven't developed him much at all in the past five years, and are now saying he's starting the journey he's supposedly been on for five years already.

Saber

02-14-2006, 08:33 PM

Like I said before season three was a shark jump but Reckoning clinches it.
Jonathan Kent could have been more life changing for Clark if he was alive & guiding him. Having the premise that Clark changes into a hero because his father dies doesn’t hold much water, this should not have been the catalyst that changes him. Superman should not be a hero out of guilt but out of love for his adoptive home. Clark should have been written where he has already absorbed all the qualities of his adoptive parents and can now stand as a “man” with all his values already intact. Now that’s a journey, from boy to man to super-hero. The only thing Clark does well is whine & pine. The potential was there for this show to be great but they blew it royally.

UpandAtom

02-15-2006, 10:32 AM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I disagree about the changing of the premise. The show started as the journey of Clark Kent to Superman. Though, with Reckoning, they've revealed the majority of the show will be, and has been comprised of Clark's journey, to the point of him going on the journey to become Superman. Even the producers have acknowledged they haven't developed him much at all in the past five years, and are now saying he's starting the journey he's supposedly been on for five years already.

I thought that the first five years was about Clark learning to accept his destiny, which is to help people. Now Clark needs to figure out how to go about that and I think that's what the remainder of the seasons will focus on.

tjpw fanatic

02-21-2006, 03:30 PM

dont know what the person that started this thread is talking about..smallville is like the best show ever..and i will cry when it ends..so i am hoping that that is not for a while

UpandAtom

02-21-2006, 03:57 PM

My main problem is that ever since Season 4 Smallville has cared more about the ratings that actually delivering good storylines.

MyOwnSuperhero

02-21-2006, 04:18 PM

Has Smallville jumped the shark? You're asking this NOW?

In season 4, there was plenty of reason to fear some serious fish hopping - the season was inconsistent, going from episode to episode with rough transitions, uneven characterizations, and incosistencies in stories key to the seasonal arc. It had some moments that were very much out of character and worrisome - Spell, for example. It was a drastic departure from the norm, introducing magic, adding some elements to the seasonal arc that were never addressed afterwards, and filled to the brim with cheap gimmicks like random underwear parties and tight corsets. In many respects, Spell was a low point for the series before and since. But has the show since then become something drastically different from what we watched the previous three seasons? No. It got right back on course (though, as mentioned before, all of season 4 was rough), and has been solid this season.

And with the events of Reckoning - which have already had a profound effect upon the show - I feel safe saying that we're safer from any potential shark jumps than we have ever been before, in any season. The show is solid and established. The Characters are firmly based in their backstories, and have a clear destiny approaching. The writing is more consistent, with hugely improved continuity. All in all, the only thing that's jumped is a few halfway fans jumping ship before we get in to the port.

Summers

02-21-2006, 04:20 PM

To many Reckoning is the reason many stopped watching, and claim the shark. They don't like their intelligence insulted.

LexLuthorMetropolis

02-21-2006, 04:22 PM

Reckoning was honestly an dissapointment. We were hyped for so much and what did we get out of it? J.S.'s death and a loop hole that took us back to square one on an emotional level.

Honestly, I think they continually jump the shark over and over again and act like they don't know their doing it especially when it comes down to the undevelopement with the relationships and characters. I haven't seen Clark evolve through to anything since the beginnning and don't even get me started on the rest of the cast.

UpandAtom

02-21-2006, 04:24 PM

Smallville has jumped the shark and now it's drowning.

MBCorp

02-21-2006, 04:25 PM

I don't see what was so profound about Reckoning. Everything is pretty much the same as it always was except now we've got Clana angst and Martha acting like an idiot over Lionel.

Oh, and Lex is evil. Although I'm not sure what Reckoning had to do with that or even when and how it took place.

Summers

02-21-2006, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by MBCorp
I don't see what was so profound about Reckoning. Everything is pretty much the same as it always was except now we've got Clana angst and Martha acting like an idiot over Lionel.

Oh, and Lex is evil. Although I'm not sure what Reckoning had to do with that or even when and how it took place.

Don't get Martha right now. Watching "Crusade" the other day she is advising Lois to stay away from Lionel. Go to now they are friends. Is there an episode that I miss that Martha got the mind-whammy. They better have a secret agenda for her because this is OOC, and bad continuity.

It's because he killed Lana....he's EVOL :lol:. Nah, I still find it hard even to believe he is evil now. To many contrived experiments we don't know about just so happen to pop up when the writers want them to :\.

Coyote

02-25-2006, 07:35 AM

No, it hasn't "jumped the shark." To say that implies that it was ever something to take seriously in the first place, and that it has changed for the worse. Actually it's somewhat better now than it was when it started with those silly freak of the week stories. Smallville is basically the same fun live action cartoon it's always been. Yes, they do things with the story to get ratings and make money. But getting ratings and making money are in fact the entire point of Smallville and every other show on commercial television. That's why they make these shows in the first place, to be filler between the commercials. Smallville is a business, not a school art project.

tw190

02-25-2006, 08:02 AM

This is funny, it seems like every other week there is a "jumped the shark" thread. Come on guys, just enjoy it. And if you don't enjoy it, don't watch it anymore, simple as that.

Peace.

HalJordan4184

02-25-2006, 08:10 AM

Why?

People that honestly criticize a show, have just as much a right to what they say, as people that just enjoy it, and could care less how bad or good things get. Good fans don't blindly accept what's thrown at them, and just deal with it. They call tptb on their mistakes, and mischaracterizations, and want to know why they are being insulted with a subpar show, when the series started with way more potential, which it has yet to live up to.

tw190

02-25-2006, 08:35 AM

Right, and I agree with you. I've done my fair share of criticizing, too. But I just think there are too many threads on the stuff we have already heard about people criticize. I guess I just find it weird that people want to criticize but they don't state what part they are talking about (first post of the thread). Which leads us back to the witch plot, get Clark in the suit, get him flying, etc.

Smokethatkryptonite

02-25-2006, 10:37 AM

Lionel knowing Clark's secret should save the show a teeny bit

UpandAtom

02-25-2006, 12:23 PM

Originally posted by Coyote
No, it hasn't "jumped the shark." To say that implies that it was ever something to take seriously in the first place, and that it has changed for the worse. Actually it's somewhat better now than it was when it started with those silly freak of the week stories. Smallville is basically the same fun live action cartoon it's always been. Yes, they do things with the story to get ratings and make money. But getting ratings and making money are in fact the entire point of Smallville and every other show on commercial television. That's why they make these shows in the first place, to be filler between the commercials. Smallville is a business, not a school art project.

Getting ratings is NOT the whole point of Smallville. The show is supposed to show us Clark's path to becoming Superman and in Seasons 1-3 it was doing that, but somewhere along the way the producers cared more about ratings than delivering good storylines. And contrary to popular belief, it is possible to create good storytellng without resorting to overuse of sex and violence. The best episodes of Smallville were the ones that made us think. Now, I haven't seen an episode that could do that. It appears as if we will never have another "Memoria" or "Rosetta" again.

HalJordan4184

02-25-2006, 01:58 PM

Season three wasn't even that great. That was the beginning of the cliche'd plot points, used to draw viewers in. Clark's battle with drugs, and running away when his problems became to big to handle, thats got to be the SINGLE MOST OVERUSED plot ever in teeny bopper shows. And thats how Smallville kicked off the third season.

UpandAtom

02-25-2006, 02:00 PM

The third season actually had the highest ratings in the beginning. Then after "Slumber" the ratings began to drop. It was the filler episodes that caused a decline in Smallville's ratings.

Summers

02-25-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by tw190
This is funny, it seems like every other week there is a "jumped the shark" thread. Come on guys, just enjoy it. And if you don't enjoy it, don't watch it anymore, simple as that.

Peace.

Uh...this is the same thread from a couple of weeks ago. All it's doing is being bumped up every so often. I mean you can't tell other people not to watch the show when they are just critizing it with valid points of it's big ol' flaws.

Originally posted by UpandAtom
The third season actually had the highest ratings in the beginning. Then after "Slumber" the ratings began to drop. It was the filler episodes that caused a decline in Smallville's ratings.

I remember at the time "Magnetic" had high ratings, but the FoTW and the overused plot devices in that episode made the other episodes that followed it have low ratings. From S3 on we had on episode that did it for many people in the fanbase:
S3-"Magnetic"
S4-"Spell"
S5-"Reckoning"

HalJordan4184

02-25-2006, 03:58 PM

you cant really judge a season based on it's opening, if the numbers for the previous season were good, generally the numbers for the first few episodes of the next season will stay steady, or improve slightly. Very rarely will a series ratings tank at the beginning of a season. Only after a few successive failures, or bad episodes do the ratings really begin a decline. That decline started in seaosn three.

GooN

02-25-2006, 06:30 PM

i think season 4 with all that witch crap was not so good....except the end few episodes. i actually liked season 3 the best. season 1 and 2 in second to that in no order....season 5 i started to really like, but as soon as Aqua came on i think it lost its way a bit.....apart from one or two episodes.

I think season 6 should be the last.....ratings will skyrocket after the superman film especially if its advertised as the last ever season of smallville.
hmmm....deja vu.

I mean how much can they possibly go on?...the clark/Lana thing must be close to an end (i hope), i wont spoil it for people who havent seen it yet but the lex and clark relationship is well, u know...and as for clark's parents well...
Theres only a few loose ends to tie up....and more twists like the whole witch thing i can do without......end with a bang not a whimper..

MamaK

02-25-2006, 06:38 PM

I loved seasons 1 -3, enjoyed some of the epis in season 4, and have really liked most of season 5. And since I just recently discovered Smallville last year I'm not ready to give up on new seasons yet. I understand the logic of wanted the show to go out with a bang and not wander off to oblivion, but I really don't think the show's done all it can. In other words, I think there's still a lot more to Clark's journey towards Superman, and many more stories that could be told. So I hope Smallville goes on through at least season 6 and then continues on with the story. I'll be there, even through some of the mediocre stuff, to catch those nuggets of golden Smallville.

Carly22

02-25-2006, 06:54 PM

I too have only recently started watching smallville, and the first episode I ever watched was also the first episode of season 5 which I thought was great. I t got me hooked and I remember watching mortal and loving it. I bought season 1 and 4 on DVD and really liked them both. I was kind of dissapointed lately in Smallville because for some reason, I don't think the content is as good as the earlier seasons. Cyborg was entertaining IMO, but the relationship between Clark and Lana is getting really old. They go through the same frustrating dynamic over and over again and I have no idea how Lois is going to become involved with Clark romantically. Based on Smallville right now, they act more like cousins rather than bf/gf. However, with that said, I really hope the show does continue because I am a fan and love it.

Gaara

02-26-2006, 01:22 PM

I think Smallville's decline definitely started in mid season 3 (most likely around the last few episodes that included Lana's living/dead boyfriend, Adam) and I think its gotten a little better since then but not enough.

But I'm convinced that Smallville will have at least 7 seasons. The CW would be insane not to pick up one of the WB's highest rated shows and with the series in syndication and the upcoming Superman Returns; those will all be likely factors to boost Smallville's ratings to the once 6 or 7 million viewers it attracted. I just hope that the writing will be a bit better for the series, once people start watching.

Clarkified

02-28-2006, 02:54 PM

Is there the possibility that SV jumped the shark because the fans got too nitpicky and therefore we suspended our suspension of disbelief?

Not that this is the case but I'm trying to find new perspectives.

UpandAtom

03-01-2006, 12:47 PM

I think Smallville jumped the shark when it started adding nudity frequently. The first four episodes of Seasons 3 and 4 had at least one nude scene.

PowerofFlight

03-01-2006, 01:07 PM

Mod Note - Edited for flaming individual posters.

i love u tom

03-01-2006, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by vyperman7
Why they just didn't have Chloe become Lois though is beyond me. That would have been my number one scenario.

they cant really do that because lois and clark are supposed to fall in love and clark doesnt love chloe. also lois and clark werent supposed to meet before he gets a job at the daily planet. so i dont really see that.

Timester

03-01-2006, 05:45 PM

Originally posted by PowerofFlight
I think SV jumped the shark when some viewers started to whine about it but somehow, keep watching it. Must be pretty good for that to happen.

How many times have I read crying alligator tears about how bad Sv is supposed to be. "But I can't stop watching it."

Ok...

Perhaps because people invested and care much about the show and the characters and want to see how it ends, even when is bad writing?

Even the reviewers already tried to explain the Love/Hate relationship with Smallville and they didn't come to any conclusion.

LanaandPete

03-04-2006, 10:58 AM

Is Lex evil or something? If he is, when did he turn? Season 3 he was still a pretty good guy and now in season 5, he just a bad guy now. It couldn't have been in season 4 seeing as he was barely in it.

MBCorp

03-04-2006, 11:17 AM

Remember the Verizon emails of last season? Those chronicled Lex's fall to the dark side of the force. And then Onyx took him farther down his dark path while Lexmas pushed him over it when he decided to go evil because he had a dream. Yes, I know. Lame, lame, lame.

UpandAtom

03-04-2006, 12:09 PM

Lex lightswitched in "Commencement"

LanaandPete

03-04-2006, 01:30 PM

Oh yea, Lex was lightswitched in Commencement. What a cop out that was. I miss the Lex from Talisman, where he wondered if Segeeth was the hero. But no, we got "I'm evil cuz I can't have Lana" Lex

Way to go Almiles

brainiacowen

03-04-2006, 01:49 PM

Lex isn't evil...he's just a darker character now. I mean, seriously, Clark has been meaner than this before...(as Kal-El, or on Red K).

LanaandPete

03-04-2006, 02:01 PM

Clark didn't experiment on young kids when he was on Red K or create Leviathon(sp?) and nearly destroy all marine life. Red K Clark or Kal-el have nothing on what Lex has done

Summers

03-04-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by LanaandPete
Oh yea, Lex was lightswitched in Commencement. What a cop out that was. I miss the Lex from Talisman, where he wondered if Segeeth was the hero. But no, we got "I'm evil cuz I can't have Lana" Lex

Way to go Almiles

To me the lightswitch was in "Onyx" when he says "I am the villian of the story". Which contradicted "Talisman" POV he had of the prophecy.

Watching Smallville

03-04-2006, 05:20 PM

To me Lex has never been lightswitched. He's the one of the three main characters that the writers have handled really well -- until this Lexana business. We'll have to see how that goes. But he was operating level 33.1 back in Jinx, so he's been doing shady experiments for a while now. I see your point about Onyx, but perhaps Lex's evil side doesn't need to justify what he does by casting it in a good light. :)

In Commencement, the only real difference was that he did a little yelling, but he was still chasing those stones and trying to figure out Clark's secret. He didn't hurt anyone.

Lex's transformation has been very subtle, IMO, and very clever. There's always been just enough dishonesty about him to cast doubt on his good deeds, and just enough nobility about him to cast doubt on his dark side. If there was a definite turn for Lex -- in terms of his actions not having any ambiguity -- I'd say it was in Aqua. But he could still justify his actions to himself by saying he was holding someone who wanted to harm his research -- and his research was meant to help national security.

I don't think we've jumped the shark. I hated Reckoning, but I look at it as just one really bad episode, which, unfortunately, was also an important episode. But I liked Vengeance and Cyborg, and I'm looking forward to the rest of the season, after reading some spoilers. So I guess I'm trying not to let one bad apple spoil the whole bunch. :D

puddinpiester

03-04-2006, 05:48 PM

Generally, I like it. I do believe that TPTB have sexed it up a bit to drag in the ratings, but have in fact alienated some viewers because of that move. I also, think Lana's character is not interesting. She seems to be there just for the guy characters to lust over. What a disappointing way for a character to be perceived. Must be boring for KK.

As for Lois, I do not enjoy most of the scenes she's in. She seems to try too hard to be sassy. She needs to learn how to tell someone to "eat dirt and die" and say it in such a way that the recipient of that comment says "Thank-you" and means thank-you.

Lex is a character that I like. I like his refined villiany, his classy demeanor, his arrogant ruthlessness. I can see this character only getting better if the writers will relax and let go of their small minded way of thinking.

Lionel, to me, is important. He is one of two remaining adults on the show. As much as the show's producers want to make this a success, I'd think they'd try to mimic real life at least a little. Most towns I know of do not consist of only angsty teenagers. There are adults to provide direction, set limits, and establish parameters of behavior for the teens. When they killed off Pa Kent, I believe they killed off a stabilizing moral character who could still influence Clark in big and powerful ways. His death represents opportunities missed.

Chloe. I truly enjoy this character. She is smart, snippy, courageous, loyal, and multitalented in multifaceted ways; a bit unbelievable, but this is a show about fantasy and if you're gonna fantasize, why not fantasize in a huge way? And she thinks lot of Clark and wants to nurture and protect him. Seems to be the only way she is gonna be a part of his life.

Now Clark. Clark is basically a calamity of tragedies. He has been through an awful lot and to remain even remotely sane is a miracle of sorts. Yes, he does whine sometimes, but he also steps up sometimes and we need to give him credit for when he does. He is steppping up for Martha right now. He is beginning to think about using his powers for the benefit of others. He is realizing that some things a person wants may be beyond their reach (think Lana). He can be a bit mopey. After all he's been through and not having an empathetic mentor (like a Kryptonian father) to guide him during his various developmental phasess, I'd be mopey too. You say Clark's character has not developed. I think it has. Maybe not as fast as we'd like or in ways we'd like, but Clark has changed. The development of Superman's years of youth is new territory. I like watching an imperfect young man struggling with his identity, trust issues, emotional conflicts and all the time knowing that Clark does, in deed, turn out okay.

There have been episodes that I did not enjoy as much as others, but I find that if I try, I can find something I like in every episode. I'm not looking for perfection; I'm looking for entertainment and SV is entertaining for me. I don't think SV has shark jumped or whatever that term is. I think SV has simply provided one account of Superman in the making. I am curious to see how they get from our Clark to Superman.

Timester

03-04-2006, 05:51 PM

:eek:

Holy Paragraph, Batman!

It's hard to read that all without paragraphs. :\

UpandAtom

03-04-2006, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by puddinpiester
All this talk about sharks and shark jumping makes me think of fishing and I am not a fisher person. But, I do have my opinion about SV. Generally, I like it. I do believe that TPTB have sexed it up a bit to drag in the ratings, but have in fact alienated some viewers because of that move. I also, think Lana's character is not interesting. She seems to be there just for the guy characters to lust over. What a disappointing way for a character to be perceived. Must be boring for KK. As for Lois, I do not enjoy most of the scenes she's in. She seems to try too hard to be sassy. She needs to learn how to tell someone to "eat dirt and die" and say it in such a way that the recipient of that comment says "Thank-you" and means thank-you. Lex is a character that I like. I like his refined villiany, his classy demeanor, his arrogant ruthlessness. I can see this character only getting better if the writers will relax and let go of their small minded way of thinking. Lionel, to me, is important. He is one of two remaining adults on the show. As much as the show's producers want to make this a success, I'd think they'd try to mimic real life at least a little. Most towns I know of do not consist of only angsty teenagers. There are adults to provide direction, set limits, and establish parameters of behavior for the teens. When they killed off Pa Kent, I believe they killed off a stabilizing moral character who could still influence Clark in big and powerful ways. His death represents opportunities missed. Chloe. I truly enjoy this character. She is smart, snippy, courageous, loyal, and multitalented in multifaceted ways; a bit unbelievable, but this is a show about fantasy and if you're gonna fantasize, why not fantasize in a huge way? And she thinks lot of Clark and wants to nurture and protect him. Seems to be the only way she is gonna be a part of his life. Now Clark. Clark is basically a calamity of tragedies. He has been through an awful lot and to remain even remotely sane is a miracle of sorts. Yes, he does whine sometimes, but he also steps up sometimes and we need to give him credit for when he does. He is steppping up for Martha right now. He is beginning to think about using his powers for the benefit of others. He is realizing that some things a person wants may be beyond their reach (think Lana). He can be a bit mopey. After all he's been through: being torn in half (emotionally), pulled in opposite directions, being so very different from everyone around him and not having an empathetic mentor (like a Kryptonian father) to guide him during his various developmental phases, the realization that he might always be alone (remember, he doesn't know about Lois yet), the death of his beloved father and feeling guilty for that death (in reality, Clark did not kill Jonathan. If a kid's bad decisions. disobedience, and impulsive behavior killed parents, mine would've been dead a hundred times over. Jonathan died because of bad heart health.), he's been dead, and that stupid tractor is always giving him fits, I'd be mopey too. You say Clark's character has not developed. I think it has. Maybe not as fast as we'd like or in ways we'd like, but Clark has changed. The development of Superman's years of youth is new territory. I like watching an imperfect young man struggling with his identity, trust issues, emotional conflicts and all the time knowing that Clark does, in deed, turn out okay. there have been episodes that I did not enjoy as much as others, but I find that if I try, I can find something I like in every episode. I'm not looking for perfection; I'm looking for entertainment and SV is entertaining for me. I don't think SV has shark jumped or whatever that term is. I think SV has simply provided one account of Superman in the making. I am curious to see how they get from our Clark to Superman.

But the thing is that Smallville has gone so far away from Clark becoming Superman that it's not even the same show that it started out as. Clark acted more like Superman in Seasons 1-3 and now it seems like he's less than he was before. Al & Miles said that Jonathan's death was what would drive Clark to becoming Superman, but it doesn't appear that way. Jonathan was one of the most useless characters on the show. Clark was able to get along fine without his advice since Season 4 so we can't be expected to believe that he would need it now. By the looks of things, if Clark is ever to become Superman than he has to lightswitch.

LanaandPete

03-04-2006, 08:24 PM

Clark will become a hero in 5.17, where black K splits him in two into super clark and lana loving clark. Then super clark will say I am the hero of the story and then bam Clark is somehow a superhero

Sounds familiar doesn't it lol. Though I wouldn't be surprised if the writers do something like it

puddinpiester

03-05-2006, 11:35 AM

Timester, sorry 'bout the lengthy paragraph. I do enjoy SV. Would I have written some things differently had I had that opportunity? Certainly. Were there episodes I thought held more promise than the goods they actually delivered? Yes. But, I still feel entertained when I watch. I see duplication of plots. What show doesn't do that in some form or another? Crime shows...crime committed; bad guy almost gets away with it; someone else is blamed; police investigate; some superduper extra- sensitive extra-smart person figures it all out; bad guy is caught by someone. Reality shows; they all hop on the boat (methaphoretically) and one by one, someone gets pushed off the boat until only one is left. My point is that SV is not the only show to rehash plotlines. I may buy the same shirt in 4 different colors, but it doesn't mean I like the style any less each time I wear one of those shirts. I just accessorize the shirts differently. SV accessorizes their episodes differently. hope folks can relax and just enjoy the fact that we have something other than crime/police/investigative shows, reality shows, tv events where celebrities keep patting themselves on the backs, or crude comedies, etc., to watch. I simply enjoy light and breezy entertainment. I think SV gives me that. I'm not looking for SV to impact the world.

t.ko

03-06-2006, 04:08 PM

well every tv show will not not jump the shark. i know you need a minute to let that sink in haha. anyhow i think Smallville is still good for another 2 seasons....but 5 more seasons woulda been better even if they ran outta ideas and had mighty mouse fight clark haha. i wonder who would win? i guess id have to put my money on mighty mouse seeing as how he looks more muscular than clark haha.

Clarkified

03-06-2006, 04:36 PM

Originally posted by puddinpiester

Oops. I did it again. Too long. Sorry.

That's what the edit button is for. ;) :p

tjpw fanatic

03-06-2006, 05:29 PM

puddinpiester

03-07-2006, 09:59 AM

Thanks for the edit button tip, Clarkified. I'm still learning the forum ins and outs. I still think SV has not really jumped sharked, just changed waters maybe. The people who like it should watch it and those who don't, shouldn't. I'm gonna watch.

GooN

03-07-2006, 10:26 AM

ive never heard the term Jumped the Shark before....Jumped ships yeah but sharks? why sharks?

UpandAtom

03-07-2006, 10:35 AM

"Jumped the shark" was named after a moment in a Happy Days episode when Fonzie literally jumped a shark. Since then, a "jump the shark" has come to symbolize a time when the fans' suspension of disbelief has gone too far.

Smallville hit that moment in Season 4. There were a lot of things that I just couldn't buy:

-Lana having two identical twin ancestors

-Lana being a witch

-Lois Lane moving into Smallville

-Chloe coming back from the dead and acting like nothing changed

-Lionel getting out of jail with seemingly no explanation

-Clark forgetting Alicia's name after one episode

-Clark not believing that Chloe knows his secret

-Brendan Nash creating a faux model of the school in "Forever"

-Jason suddenly turning evil

-Clark about to get laid by four different women and refusing

Clarkified

03-07-2006, 02:50 PM

I agree with you, Upandatom. Al least in Season 3 the stories were still believable and not that far-fetched. They kept it simple. The problem started when they went a little too over-the-top with the witches, the stones, etc. Could it be because they felt that they couldn't overcome the greatness of the previous seasons?

LanaandPete

03-08-2006, 07:34 PM

No mentioning of Pete in season 4, seriously in scare, they made it seem like Clark had never revealed his secret. God, the writers are idiot

mortal118

03-08-2006, 07:37 PM

Yeah, Smallville took that giant leap over Jaws, hardcore!

There were so many cool characters and storylines that were just dropped for unknown or "because they were too comicY" reasons.

Lucas was cool
Helen was cool
Mxylpklicwknckwn4596t3nbfnr37ndxc83xorm4d was cool
Level 33.1 was cool
Henry Small, etc. etc.

Instead, there are dumb characters with recycled storylines.
I criticize the show a lot too, but I definitely agree that the show went off the deep end fro season 4.
The loss of J.K. was inevitable and necessary, however, the loss of Lionel (which is also necessary and inevitable) will probably make this shows ratings and viewers drop like the lifespan of flies.

Take the show C.S.I. for example- there's so many characters they don't know what to do with them. That's a bad thing, however it can be rectified by either killing off characters or not renewing contracts. Smallville is losing main characters that aren't being replaced. Season 4 saw Jenson Ackles go (believe me, I cheered when he got shot, fell off a cliff and then got hit by a meteor- by the way- great continuity on his missing body in Season 5- that bugged me), Season 5- J.K. dies (and maybe another character).

The show now faces 2 problems: too few characters and possibly no relevant / recognizable ones to replace them, and storylines running thin that fit with Smallville continuity.

I'm all for Gen. Zod appearing (or any other "Superman" universe character), but I fear tht Smallville jumped the shark and got its leg ripped off from Jaw's teeth, and now there's blood in the water, with more sharksapproaching at the scent of blood...

Take care, God bless, peace out

UpandAtom

03-08-2006, 07:57 PM

I don't think it was just the terrible storylines that made Season 4 the shark jumping point. There were a lot of things that the show had to adjust to, such as changing from 6 seasons to 7, the death of Christopher Reeve which removed the Dr. Swann arc, Margot Kidder refusing to fill the Reeve role, spending most of the special effects budget on the flight scene in "Crusade", etc.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-08-2006, 08:01 PM

There are only 5 seasons and the transition should have been smooth enough to begin with. There were issues there in regards but that's no excuse for bad story development and lack of character growth, that's why this year has been forced development.

Or at least one of the reasons.

myankskent

03-08-2006, 08:02 PM

Originally posted by LexLuthorMetropolis
There are only 5 seasons and the transition should have been smooth enough to begin with. There were issues there in regards but that's no excuse for bad story development and lack of character growth, that's why this year has been forced development.

Or at least one of the reasons.

This season was fine up until Reckoning, then it became garbage. I am hoping that it will turn around in the next few episodes but I won't hold my breath.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-08-2006, 08:14 PM

From the spoilers, I feel like we're walking in one big circle instead of moving forward.

I'm with you on holding my breath. It's hard to have faith in a show that repeats itself and doesn't move itself forward. "Everything you have wanted to see." Yeah, I'll believe the tagline when some thing actually happens that moves Clark toward his future role without forcing development or focusing on Lana.

Enough of my babbling though.

UpandAtom

03-13-2006, 05:36 PM

It's time like this where I feel that Smallville should've ended at five seasons instead of going on for another two. I can't stand the same plots over and over again.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-13-2006, 05:45 PM

There hasn't been any confirmation whatsoever of a two season renewal and it seems either way we're getting plots over and over again since the writing staff doesn't know how to move beyond point A to get to point B without recycling plots.

tjpw fanatic

03-13-2006, 05:52 PM

but smallville has always kind of been like that..they have to recycle plots to have it make sense..you cant just leave something hanging. and if your talking about the clana back and forth relationship..its always been like that..and it always will be until he gets over her..i dont know personally im intrigued by the show..but hey thats just my opinion

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-13-2006, 06:18 PM

Actually they don't. In fact, they could be far more original they are being. Within the last season alone, we've seen recycled Clana, recycled good Lex, bad Lex, Jor-El supposedly being evil then supposedly helping Clark out, Lionel's back and forth with Lex (we're back to evil Lionel again from the first few seasons), bringing in heroes from DC as a plot device (Flash in S4, Aqua and Cyborg) and many other things.

Now matter how you put it's on repeat just with a glossy new look is all.

And on recycling plots - they really don't need it if they wanna make their characters evolve. We've seen Clark supposedly evolved, but when you look at the previous seasons he's really declined by taking on some of the actions he's made this past year alone. He was far more evolved in the past seasons then he is now, but that's a completely different layer.

Basically, it's time to put SV to rest.

tjpw fanatic

03-13-2006, 06:22 PM

i disagree..but as will ferrell says in anchorman "lets agree to disagree" lol..i just enjoy the show..its something to look foward to on thursday nights for me

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-13-2006, 06:40 PM

I'll agree to disagree, but I truly think and feel the show has ran its course.

It's jumped the shark countess times and continues to every time they attempt a new episode.

tjpw fanatic

03-13-2006, 06:42 PM

ok..i guess i feel differently because..i just started watching the show this past august and i watched all the previous seasons within like a 2 week period..so it feels like the show is just getting started for me and im not ready for it to end lol

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-13-2006, 06:45 PM

Nothing wrong with that. Welcome aboard by the way. :)

tjpw fanatic

03-14-2006, 05:08 AM

thank you :)

GooN

03-14-2006, 02:56 PM

this topic makes me want to eat a shark. i heard they taste nice.

UpandAtom

03-14-2006, 03:32 PM

very good actually :D

BlackRock

03-15-2006, 02:32 AM

Its went downhill the moment Clark got down and dirty with Lana. I dont believe Clark got that far in the original movie and I for one am disappointed they went down that route. The sexual tension between them has gone and this is what their relationship was based on. In the original movie Lana has a child - why didnt the father to be appear on the scene and start up a bit jealousy friction between Clark and himself rather than were WB took it. Gutted. And are we sure all of Clarks powers have returned I seen little evidence of them in this series and lets have a story that doesnt envolve everyone thinking "Lex is behind this"........

MamaK

03-15-2006, 05:23 AM

Originally posted by tjpw fanatic
ok..i guess i feel differently because..i just started watching the show this year and i watched all the previous seasons within like a 2 week period..so it feels like the show is just getting started for me and im not ready for it to end lol

This is exactly my reason too TJPWfanatic - only it took my a month to catch up on the other seasons. Also, I just feel that, while yes we had to seriously suspend our disbelief during season 4, is you think about it, aren't we already suspending our disbelief to enjoy the premise of Superman? So maybe it's just a question of how far you can stretch your disbelief. For me, I'll hang in there.:\

UpandAtom

03-15-2006, 10:33 AM

Even if it's a series based on a comic book, there comes a certain point where you feel that it's just too unbelievable for it to happen. The comics don't stretch my suspension of disbelief because they at least offer a logical explanation as to how things happened.

HalJordan4184

03-15-2006, 12:07 PM

Exactly, it's supposed to be PLAUSIBLE suspension of disbelief. It's not supposed to feel so forced, that you either take it or you don't. It's just supposed to seem natural within that realm.

Kara15

03-15-2006, 02:02 PM

I actually think that the show has gotten better. Season 1 was good, but the whole 'meteor freak of the week' thing got a little old after a while. There are still a few strange episodes every once in awhile, but other than that, I think the show has really improved.

tjpw fanatic

03-15-2006, 03:50 PM

MamaK

03-15-2006, 07:21 PM

Originally posted by Kara15
I actually think that the show has gotten better. Season 1 was good, but the whole 'meteor freak of the week' thing got a little old after a while. There are still a few strange episodes every once in awhile, but other than that, I think the show has really improved.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who still feels like Smallville still has something to offer. And I agree completely - I think this season has been really strong in terms of plots and character development.

MBCorp

03-16-2006, 02:06 PM

I know I've said that the show jumped the shark for me in S4, but really thinking about it I'm going to have to change that and say that it jumped the shark for me personally in Reckoning. If it had jumped the shark before that then I wouldn't have been so excited about Reckoning. I've never been able to take the show or the characters (even Lex) seriously since that episode. Lana being a witch didn't break me, but Reckoning did.:p

MidgardDragon

03-16-2006, 05:24 PM

Originally posted by ImzadiJedi
Refresh my memory what happened in Reckoning? Was that the episode were Jonathan died? I didn't see it. What else happened that you didn't like in that episode?

SPOILER FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO NEVER SAW THE EPISODE FOLLOWS

In Reckoning, Clark told Lana his secret, proposed marriage, and showed her the Fortress of Solitude. But then, Lex went after her after having suspicions that she knew something about Clark that he was hiding. They were driving and Lex was drunk, he tried to force her to pull over and she was on the phone with Clark telling him what was going on, and not paying attention to the road. Then she got hit by a bus and died, and Clark didn't have time to save her.

Here comes the part that most people didn't like about the episode: Clark went to see Jor-El, and Jor-El allowed him to reverse time (but there was "only one crystal" so he couldn't do it again) and save Lana, but warned him that someone else would die. The other person that died, as we all know, was Jonathon Kent.

The time-travel part is where post people get upset, and things like "Smallville jumped the shark with reckoning" are said.

I disagree, the day that Smallville puts Clark in blue and red tights and has people start calling him Superboy, then I'll believe Smallville's jumped the shark. As of now, they've just done things that some viewers happen to have not liked.

MidgardDragon

03-16-2006, 06:06 PM

Originally posted by ImzadiJedi
Thank you! I appreciate the details of episode.

Warning! Spoilers for Reckoning discussed...

I can see why some would not like this episode. I think that they should of left Lana dead. Yes, I know that this goes against the comic books but the Smallville Lana isn't really the Lana of the comic books either. Killing her off would be radical. It would help explain why Lois is staying in Smallville too... And poor Chloe... Oh well, I am not the writer or producer of the show. The show I would probably made not very many people would like or watch. I like a moral Superman and not the Superman that this show is developing. It's too post modern for my taste. Too much is relative... Oh well. Sorry to go off like that... :)

Personally, I want Clark to do everything he did in Reckoning. Lana to stay alive, and Jonathon Kent to stay alive. The conflict should have come in by Lex spying on Lana and Clark after Lana learns the secret, but instead of killing her off or reversing time, create a subplot for the rest of the season with Lex investigating Clark and now Lana b/c he realizes she knows something.

It also opens up possibilities for storylines about Lana knowing Chloe knows, finding out Chloe knew first, etc.

No one really HAD to die, I think Jonathon was the most powerful choice, emotionally, though. Everyone loved Jonathon, so everyone was sad about him dying. Had it been Lana, a whole subsection of the fanbase would have not even been emotionally effected by the death, rather than to just say "woo-hoo!" I think they'd regret saying woo hoo later, too, personally. ;)

UpandAtom

03-16-2006, 08:42 PM

I disagree. I think someone needed to die in order for the episode to be effective. Clark needs to realize that his actions have consequences, something that he hasn't learned in other episodes. But the death shouldn't have been a car accident or a heart attack, it should've been something more meaningful.

Personally, I wanted Chloe to be the one that died, have her sacrifice her own life for Clark's. Chloe's death would've impacted a lot of the characters of the show. It would've made Clark realize that he couldn't tell Lana his secret, it would've pushed Lois and Clark into journalism, and it would've resulted in Lex investigating her death and coming closer to Clark's secret.

MidgardDragon

03-16-2006, 09:56 PM

Clark needs to learn that if he shares himself with the people he loves that his actions will cause their deaths? I disagree. If he can't learn to trust the ones he loves, then he's gonna end up a bitter and miserable man.

HalJordan4184

03-17-2006, 04:33 AM

UpandAtom, that would have been a disappointment for me. If Chloe died, and that pushed Clark into being a reporter, and pushed Lois into being a reporter, and made Clark not trust other people, and made Clark take the heroic journey, which I'm still waiting for by the way, lol, i would have been seriously upset. In fact, I am already, because of tptb's assertion that Clark is pushed into all these things against his will, simply because it's his destiny. Superman is not, and is not meant to be, the reluctant hero. Clark wanted to be a journalist because he had a passion for it. Clark wanted to become Superman, because he wants to help people. SMallville's Clark doesn't seem to want any of that.

MidgardDragon

03-17-2006, 10:13 AM

Originally posted by ImzadiJedi
I think the series should just end before it embarrasses itself more. Sorry... I know a lot of you love the show the way it is. (((not so quietly walks to the side of the room to wait for the assault)))

Eh, that's your opinion. I don't think anyone's going to attack you for it. Although I don't think most of us would be here if we felt the same way, so I doubt it's exactly popular opinion. ;)

Bring on Season 6 and 7 says I! ^_^

ZeoVGM

03-17-2006, 10:27 AM

Originally posted by ImzadiJedi
I think the series should just end before it embarrasses itself more. Sorry... I know a lot of you love the show the way it is. (((not so quietly walks to the side of the room to wait for the assault)))

Here's the problem: it hasn't embarrassed itself.

Your logic is absolutely strange. Season 4 was the worst season and season 5 has been better in EVERY single way. It's almost not even arguable when you look at what Smallville did to its characters and plotlines last season.

You think the series should end itself now, even though this is the most popular AND critically acclaimed season, save some elitest "fans" who have to hate everything", yet?

Wow.

HalJordan4184

03-17-2006, 12:08 PM

Elitist fans. Smallville peaked ratings wise, two and three years ago. This year hasn't broken any records, and most critics ignore the show completely.

This show has embarassed itself. Season four was proof enough of this. And, once they put it out there, they didn't even have the guts to stick with it. They are right back at where everything has always been. In five years, there has been NO forward movement for this show.

MidgardDragon

03-17-2006, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Elitist fans. Smallville peaked ratings wise, two and three years ago. This year hasn't broken any records, and most critics ignore the show completely.

This show has embarassed itself. Season four was proof enough of this. And, once they put it out there, they didn't even have the guts to stick with it. They are right back at where everything has always been. In five years, there has been NO forward movement for this show.

Let's see, at the beginning of Season 1, Clark didn't know anything about Krypton or his true Father. He just knew he came in a space ship. He learned from Dr. Swann who he was and what happened to his planet, including about the destruction of Krypton. He later learned about Jor-El's seemingly ambivalent plans for Clark's future.

Pete later found out Clark's secret, all of it, and lived with it for quite a while before discovering it was too much for him. Lana, who was an unobtainable beauty to Clark in Season 1, has since then became his on and off again girlfriend. And this has been on again for most of Season 5. Chloe has learned Clark's true identity and lived with it, eventually revealing to Clark that she knew, and has since become his confidant and therapist. We have seen Lois introduced, and learned how the Smallville version of Lois and Clark first met, and how they interact in the Smallville universe.

Clark has gained a new power each season but seasons 4 and 5, creating new situations and uses. Clark has learned that his consequences do have actions, via Exile. He learned this lesson again via Reckoning. Clark and gang are no longer in high school, but have moved on to University, and some of them (Chloe, for example) actually are moving towards their goals for what they want to do with their lives. Jonathon Kent has died, leaving a void in Clark and Martha's life. We've seen both Lex and Lionel be bad again, good again, bad again, wtf are they again? several times. And at the moment, Lionel seems to know a very BIG secret about Clark.

We've seen the uniting of the crystals that Season 4 focused on, and the Fortress of Solitude be built from nothing.

So from the humble beginnings of one farm boy who simply thought he had extraordinary abilities to an everyday hero from the planet krypton with only two or three people in the whole world who know what he truly does and sacrifices every day for others, with a girl he truly loves but has discovered he may never be able to show her his true self. A man who has recently discovered that there are plenty of people from Krypton still "popping up" to do him harm, and who has also discovered that he has a true "Fortress of Solitude" to go and learn about his race and his planet if he ever makes that choice. A man who recently lost his Father and has even less people to turn to now.

Yeah, that whole happy farmboy with not a care in the world but a few meteor freaks here and there bit sure is the same as Clark's new not-so-happy life!

I see lots of forward movement. Perhaps not the movement you specifically want, but that's forward movement if I ever did see it.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-17-2006, 03:35 PM

But on an emotional level Clark has failed to move forward. Each year they've decided to change him it's been with a patented light switch technique, whcih happens everytime they feel the need to force the line. All it really does is slow matters and reinforces the fact, that the writers don't know how to maintain the character and it falls under the same principle for every character.

They constantly flux themselves and they remain in that state, whether people accept it or not. We've seen the same shippers play out over and over again for the past five years and there are going to be even more familiar issues regarding spoilers before the season is over. I'm not going to mention what they are specifically but if the show is stuck in a repeated trend with relationships and the characters are in a stalemate, that's not moving forward. That's dragging out a concept at a standstill to achieve what they want.

ZeoVGM

03-17-2006, 04:58 PM

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-17-2006, 05:16 PM

Mod Note - Don't comment about posters. Talk about the show.

Summers

03-17-2006, 09:30 PM

Originally posted by ZeoVGM

You think the series should end itself now, even though this is the most popular

Have to disagree there. From what I observed on numerous boards many are unhappy due to what happened this season from Clana sex(how it was handled) to lame "Reckoning" to Lexana not to mention Chloe and Lois are just there as bookends. This by no means have been the most popular season. S3 is still known as the most popular among fans.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-17-2006, 10:35 PM

I feel it should be the last year as well, but I agree with Summers about the popularity issue.

The show is continuing in a downward spirial, that it's not going to be able to pick itself up from. -Refers to previous posts.

tjpw fanatic

03-18-2006, 06:19 AM

i completely disagree with the show going nowhere thing and how it embarrassed itself in season four..season four was personally my favorite season..it ditched the freak of the week thing which made it even more interesting..all the lines in the fourth season were hilarious! and the whole lana witch thing was good because it introduced the stones of knowledge to clark..also it gave clark and lois a chance to work together as a team on different things. clark learned more about his heritage. i love season 5 so far too. they had to get rid of jonathon kent. i loved him but they had to do it. and everything that is happening with clana is happening so that clois can later on happen. so i do not think that the show has jumped the shark at all! and it has most certainly not run its course!

MamaK

03-18-2006, 09:10 AM

Hey tjpw fanatic - I like the way you think! I also don't think the show has jumped the shark yet, quite the opposite. This season is the most compelling one yet. We are finally getting to places that we've been waiting for: people finally knowing Clark's secret, Clark finally beginning his "true" path to Superman instead of disposing of FOTWs, Clark growing up period, the end of Clana which makes way for Clois etc. I'm hoping for a season 7 and beyond!

HalJordan4184

03-18-2006, 10:21 AM

Exactly how has CLark grown up. Learning that you came from a place called Krypton, and discovering new powers, is not growing up. Growing up is learning to deal with your issues, emotional and psychological. Growing up is learning how to fit into the world. Clark is completely goign the opposite direction, in his staunch refusal to deal with anything. THis was completely evidenced in season four, when the whole witch stone arc thing came about. Rather than try to actually find the stones he sat around, until another meteor shower happened, and suddenly the stone quest is the msot important thing in his life. or Clark to be moving forward, he has to change his behaviors and ways of thinking, and he's not. He's still lying to Lana to "protect her". He still refuses to be proactive about anything. He still feels burdened by everything. He's gone nowhere. He's still got the same issues he had in season one. Only now, he's made the same mistakes repeatedly, so he comes out lookig the worse for the wear because of it.

tjpw fanatic

03-18-2006, 12:58 PM

Originally posted by MamaK
Hey tjpw fanatic - I like the way you think! I also don't think the show has jumped the shark yet, quite the opposite. This season is the most compelling one yet. We are finally getting to places that we've been waiting for: people finally knowing Clark's secret, Clark finally beginning his "true" path to Superman instead of disposing of FOTWs, Clark growing up period, the end of Clana which makes way for Clois etc. I'm hoping for a season 7 and beyond!

thanks :) i like the way you think too.. season 7 and beyond would be nice :D

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-18-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Exactly how has CLark grown up. Learning that you came from a place called Krypton, and discovering new powers, is not growing up. Growing up is learning to deal with your issues, emotional and psychological. Growing up is learning how to fit into the world. Clark is completely goign the opposite direction, in his staunch refusal to deal with anything. THis was completely evidenced in season four, when the whole witch stone arc thing came about. Rather than try to actually find the stones he sat around, until another meteor shower happened, and suddenly the stone quest is the msot important thing in his life. or Clark to be moving forward, he has to change his behaviors and ways of thinking, and he's not. He's still lying to Lana to "protect her". He still refuses to be proactive about anything. He still feels burdened by everything. He's gone nowhere. He's still got the same issues he had in season one. Only now, he's made the same mistakes repeatedly, so he comes out lookig the worse for the wear because of it.

I agree with you completely, Hal. It would be different if he had but he continues to do it every season now.

And yes, the show has jumped the shark constantly from S3 on and he continues to on a weekly basis.

I'm honestly not going to repeat myself for the thousandth time in those regards. You either see it or you don't and for the record I'm speaking to people in general.

dayne

03-18-2006, 07:44 PM

I think that the biggest mistake the show has made has been the ongoing ridculous stone storyline. I don't buy any of it. Chasing stupid mystical stones and inserting them into their proper slots is not my idea of good television. It's mostly an anti-climatic. The whole fortress of solitude thing has gotten really tired.

The witch storyline last year was atrocious. Showcasing Lana in a season-long arc was a bad idea. The whole plot was just so cheesy.

Bringing over James Marsters (Brainiac) has helped. The show needed a smart super villain or Big Bad. But he has been on too little this season. They should have made this season's arc about Clark's struggles with Brainiac.

Another reason the show has stagnated has been the writers refusal to REALLY move forward with Clark's storyline. They brought in Lois and kept her around. She should be a main character now. One of Lana or Chloe has to go. But the writers decided to keep the two around. And now Lois' character is being wasted and put in token scenes where she just looks out of place.

And as the characters have gotten older, they should have started to make this show more adult-oriented. At it's core, it will always appeal to teens. But I find it hard to believe that every character (except LEx, Lionel, and Lois) on this show is such a good girl or good boy. These are supposed to be college-aged people. So, why are they so scared of sex or drinking - common elements of that time?

It's become like watching some Family Channel special.

UpandAtom

03-18-2006, 11:01 PM

That proves that the writers don'y care about delivering goog storylines anymore. All they care anout is ratings. They keep all the characters around the please their respective fanbases so that leaves out any possibility of doing something wild and unpredictable. Now they are just trying to conform their show to what fans find pleasing. They claimed fans found Season 3 to be too adult, so they made Season 4 campy. When that didn't work, they tried to find a balance. They just don't seem to care about delivering good storylines anymore just pleasing the audience and getting high ratings.

dayne

03-19-2006, 03:01 PM

The show has been very predictable lately. It just recycles the same lines and sub-plots over and over again. It's not to hard to figure out what two characters are going to exactly say beforehand when I see a scene.

And I think the show is being weighed down with the excess of characters. One of Chloe or Lana has to go.

And I know that the season finale will be boring as well. It will probably be about Clark inserting another one of those stupid stones in some slot in the caves - and then a bunch of magical lights will start blasting. Yawn.....

watcher4

03-19-2006, 04:42 PM

Originally posted by Summers
. S3 is still known as the most popular among fans.

That is interesting! I would have to say that S3 is my favorite as well. You made some other very good points!

Do you think that the upcoming movie has anything to do with SV jumping the shark?

Summers

03-19-2006, 05:31 PM

No, there is no coorelation between Superman Returns and SV. Bryan Singer, the director, and AlMiles have stated many times their storylines will not be the same thing. They won't be on the same continuity. The new movies are "sequel-like" to the Reeve movies, but they will not follow SV storylines. You will see visual similarities from SV (i.e. Daily Planet, Kent Barn, and young CK in flannel), but the storylines will in fact not be on the same continuity. SR and SV are two separate continuities in the franchaise. AlMiles decided what they wanted to happen, and they still okay every script. SR and Singer are not to blame for SV jumping the shark :\.

McKeznak

03-19-2006, 08:22 PM

I think the show is incedible, I am a superman fan and even though they have strayed here and there from the general superman universe i don't care. I realize that they have to make their own show and need to change some things. I think they have done it great with the show.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-19-2006, 08:33 PM

Strayed is a bit of an understatement. They've gone off the beaten path into the woods and straight out into outer space with their approach. Their at the point, where Clark Kent will never ever be able to be Superman unless they lightswitch him more and more.

Like I haven't stated this 200 times over already lol

MidgardDragon

03-19-2006, 08:38 PM

What I don't get is this need to talk people who actually enjoy the show into disliking the show as much as some of you do. The poster before LexLuthorMetropolis enjoys the show, good for them! I see no need to talk them out of it (maybe that's 'cause I enjoy it too, but really, why does anyone care if some people enjoy the show the way it is?) Season 5 is the way it is mainly because of what the producers thought the fans wanted. I think they have done an excellent job with Season 5, and it has been (almost) everything I've wanted to see. The almost only because I want him to fly, if only for one episode, as Clark Kent and not Kal-El.

cayayofm

03-19-2006, 08:44 PM

You want to keep seeing Clark lying to Lana and finding new excuses for not telling her his secret?

MidgardDragon

03-19-2006, 08:46 PM

Originally posted by cayayofm
You want to keep seeing Clark lying to Lana and finding new excuses for not telling her his secret?

Not going to dignify this with a response. I didn't say they had not done things that I didn't like, but I did say that I have seen what I wanted to see.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-19-2006, 08:54 PM

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
What I don't get is this need to talk people who actually enjoy the show into disliking the show as much as some of you do. The poster before LexLuthorMetropolis enjoys the show, good for them! I see no need to talk them out of it (maybe that's 'cause I enjoy it too, but really, why does anyone care if some people enjoy the show the way it is?) Season 5 is the way it is mainly because of what the producers thought the fans wanted. I think they have done an excellent job with Season 5, and it has been (almost) everything I've wanted to see. The almost only because I want him to fly, if only for one episode, as Clark Kent and not Kal-El.

10) We cannot stress this enough: DISCUSSION ON THIS BOARD SHOULD AT ALL TIMES BE ABOUT THE SHOWS THEMSELVES, NOT OURSELVES, THE BOARDS, OTHER POSTERS OR OTHER FANS. Threads about why people like Lana more than Chloe (or Logan more than Duncan or WHATEVER) or posting things like "People who think that are just stupid and prudeish" or attempting to psychoanalyze the reasons why another member of this board feels the way they do, or even couching it under "positive" terms such as "I'm glad people stopped talking about that really stupid and annoying subject!" or "I'm glad most people have the sense to agree with me!" are not allowed.

MidgardDragon

03-19-2006, 09:03 PM

Mod Note - Do not respond to a mod's comment. I suggest taking it to PM.

watcher4

03-19-2006, 09:30 PM

I guess I expected more of a change in Clark since JK's death. Maybe I was expecting too much. Now, I did not expect Clark to don the blue tights the episode after JK's death. However, I guess I expected to see more "soul-searching" on Clark's part or something comparible.

UpandAtom

03-20-2006, 08:20 AM

I never thought Jonathan's death would change anything. To me, he was one of the show's expendable characters and has been since Season 4. Had Jonathan died back in Season 3, it would have been more meaningful but now it just looks like they got rid of him because they couldn't come up with anymore storylines for him.

watcher4

03-20-2006, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by UpandAtom
I never thought Jonathan's death would change anything. To me, he was one of the show's expendable characters and has been since Season 4. Had Jonathan died back in Season 3, it would have been more meaningful but now it just looks like they got rid of him because they couldn't come up with anymore storylines for him.

I agree that we can disagree.

LexLuv180

03-20-2006, 02:10 PM

I didnt know the ratings were weaker now :( Maybe because so many disliked season four and gave up?

Season five is excellent so far to me, I havent disliked any episode. Some are weaker than others but none are *bad*

tjpw fanatic

03-20-2006, 02:56 PM

^i even thought season four was good..i guess some ppl didnt :/

HalJordan4184

03-20-2006, 02:58 PM

season three was the biggest ratings decline. It's somewhat picked up, but the numbers aren't what they used to be. Thi9ngs plateued this season with reckoning,a nd then went back down to failry consistant numbers again.

MamaK

03-20-2006, 03:09 PM

No matter what the ratings are, I'm still enjoying SV a lot and will continue to watch.

watcher4

03-20-2006, 04:33 PM

If a person enjoys Smallville, s/he should continue to watch!

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-20-2006, 06:50 PM

No one is trying to change anyone's opinions but we're just stating where we think it jumped the shark. Yes, I've stated my share of bads but that's my opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of the show. All the power to you as far as I'm concerned, but there's always going to be different sides to the argument. But this thread isn't about the posters. It's about jumping the show jumping the shark.

Back to the point...

I still say that the show jumped the shark early back in S3.

Also forgot to mention that there is always room for debate. Just as long as its not directed at posters directly.

thehenry89

03-20-2006, 07:02 PM

show aint jumped the shark yet but if they start doing more fotw episodes i may have to change my mind.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-20-2006, 07:16 PM

I have to disagree on FotWs. They're still on and appear constantly. Not as steady as S1 but their still one of the factors that the show uses steadily.

UpandAtom

03-21-2006, 10:46 AM

I think the show jumped the shark during "Crusade". That was when it became evident that the show cared more about ratings than delivering good storylines. Having Lois and Jason on the show proves that they were running out of ideas and needed something to liven the show. Also, all the cliffhangers in "Covenant" were resolved without any ramifications on the characters. Lex survived his poisoning and it's never mentioned again. Chloe came back from the dead and she acts like Lionel wouldn't make good on his threat to kill her.

watcher4

03-21-2006, 06:22 PM

It seems like television series writers have short memories.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-21-2006, 06:29 PM

Don't get me wrong they do have a knack for that, but there have been so good episodes in there. They just seriously need to get on the ball with things. I mean after almost five full years it seems like they would have learned by now.

Tarah Nova

03-22-2006, 07:53 PM

I think every show has its ups and downs.. and some things are going to grate on our collective nerves.
For example, ..... I didn't like that they brought in Lois so early... and I feel that way only because I only saw the first superman movie ( and no other experence with Superman before Smallville)and as I recall, Lois didn't seem to remember Clark at all, and acted if she had never met him before. So Lois being around Smallville for so long and even having slept at Clarks house thing didn't seem to hold water with me.
Other than that, I have enjoyed this season and I am always thrilled to see the next new eppy.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-22-2006, 08:12 PM

Welcome aboard Tarah Novah :)

But back to topic....

watcher4

03-23-2006, 12:48 PM

I was thinking about this and wondering if the issue is that the series has not been paced appropriately. Something like that would be hard to do though. However, I would expect after almost five years that Clark would have progressed further than he has.

Yuui

03-23-2006, 07:34 PM

The witch arc, and if not, then the 100th episode (and it being a miserable disappointment and inevitably lead me to stop watching the series).

dontkillchloe

03-24-2006, 08:34 AM

it really doesn't seem like they care about progressing Clarks character..its just one of those shows you can pretty much start watching at anytime and know whats going on..it would be nice if the episodes "A" storylines would deal with advacing the arc instead of that being the "B" storyline..FOTW gets boring..nothing happens. It doesn't teach Clark anything. 5 years into the show, Clark is still this Lana-crazed highschool boy. Dissapointing I say, yet a very very addicting show. Just addicted to knowing whats going to come of all this Braniac/Lionel knowing Clark's secret storyline and I don't want to miss a beat, even if it means suffering through some weak storylines. Just like sex slave girl..sigh..depressing i tell you.

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-24-2006, 11:43 AM

I'm with dontkillchloe.

watcher4

03-24-2006, 02:53 PM

ME TOO!!

UpandAtom

03-27-2006, 12:52 PM

It seems like the only character we've seen evolve on the show is Lana. She turned from a princess in Season One to a witch in Season Four, but that evolution was developed well. The same goes for Chloe. Clark and Lex, on the other hand, the two characters which the show revolves around, have just flipped back and forth. It's terrible how they lightswitched Lex in "Commencement".

Jason1779

03-27-2006, 03:54 PM

I don't think they should toss him in a suit just yet but I do think that he should have full use of his powers by now......I mean honestly his is almost 19 and the show is on its 5th season but he still can't fly..........

tjpw fanatic

03-27-2006, 03:59 PM

^^kal can fly though..but clark hasnt embraced his "full kryptonian destiny" lol

Shinzon2004

03-27-2006, 10:52 PM

Clark can fly,but he is afraid of it.Besides,he doesnt want his
Kryptonian heritage or his powers,how many times have we hared him, "I want to have a normal life" stuff and such.

On the other hand many people are dissapointed that they killed
Jhonathan Kent way before his time.I always believed that JK
would die of a heart attack quietly like he did in Superman:The Movie.Lana has progressed,true,but the witch arc was very hard
to follow.Lana s boyfriends all of them die,even Clark died once,
and Lana still loves him despite the fact that there are secrets and lies.Lionel,he seems to be after Martha Kent now, gave him
another purpose in the show other than being Lex s father.

Chloe has become the computer whiz,and still has some feelings for Clark.I always thought that Chloe was the right choice for Clark rather than Lois or Lana.The freak of the week theme is
overused,as well Kryptonite and amensia.Way in season 4,
the Kents had little else to do in the show,they were absent
in many episodes with the "They are in Metropolis" excuse.
I miss Jhonathan Kent now,he was one of my favorite characters
besides Clark and Lex.

Clark will be now an easy target for Jor El with good old boy
JK dead...will Clark eventually decide that he is destined to a great purpose?Will he stop whining about Jor El?

The bad things of the show were Cristopher Reeve s death
and Margot Kidder s exit from the show,Pete leaving,sometimes
he is needed,and Jhonathan Kent s death.

On the other hand,the show is doing fine.

DreadShamus

03-28-2006, 07:43 AM

Jumping the shark means making a character addition or major season long story line that permanently changes the course and feel of the show.

That really hasn't happened. It almost happened in Season 4 with the whole witch magic/kryptonian artifacts connection. The Indian magic connection to krypton was kind of weak, but they recovered from it. Trying to move that on with european magic was just weak.

However, I don't feel anything they have done has not been well recovered from.

My only fault with the show is the sex sessions and skimpy lingerie they started throwing around in 4. They have the largest audience ever this year and I feel parents are more likely to take their kids away from a great 'kids' show because of it.

And I agree, they have taken a great SH appearance 'Impulse/Kid Flash' and suddenly started throwing as many random 'future' heroes into the story as they can. AND THEY ALL KNOW HIS IDENTITY! At least they are heroes, but even heroes don't run around telling everybody their secret identity!

Originally posted by Shinzon2004

On the other hand many people are dissapointed that they killed Jhonathan Kent way before his time.I always believed that JK
would die of a heart attack quietly like he did in Superman:The Movie.

The bad things of the show were Cristopher Reeve s death
and Margot Kidder s exit from the show,Pete leaving,sometimes
he is needed,and Jhonathan Kent s death.

Jonathan died around the same age in the show as he did in the movie, so it isn't before his time. Actually his heart attack being caused by fighting with Lionel/in place of Lana's death, is the only difference from the movie death.

Also, my only problem with the Margot Kidder character is the way she brought out some new Kryptonite. How would she have had any idea what it did, and what did it really do? They never explained why it helped seperate Clark from Kal-El...

UpandAtom

03-28-2006, 10:19 AM

Originally posted by DreadShamus
Jumping the shark means making a character addition or major season long story line that permanently changes the course and feel of the show.

That really hasn't happened. It almost happened in Season 4 with the whole witch magic/kryptonian artifacts connection. The Indian magic connection to krypton was kind of weak, but they recovered from it. Trying to move that on with european magic was just weak.

However, I don't feel anything they have done has not been well recovered from.

Actually jumping the shark means that the show has reached a point where you realize that it isn't the same show that you feel in love with.

The mishaps with Season 4 Smallville will never be able to recover from. Sure Season Five is good now, but they will never be able to replicate the ratings or popularity of the first two seasons. It just can't be done.

DreadShamus

03-28-2006, 10:29 AM

Ratings for the show are higher now than they were then...

At least according to the last article in the Washington Post I read 2 weeks ago. It said Season 5 is so popular that it is in the forefront of CW's new lineup arrangements.

UpandAtom

03-28-2006, 10:38 AM

No, it's not. Ratings now might be slightly higher than they were in Season 4, but it has not matched the popularity of the first three seasons. If I can remember correctly the "Cyborg" scored a 4.2/6 in the ratings while "Slumber" had a 6.4/10.

And the only reason Smallville is in the forefront of the CW's new lineup arrangements is because it appeals to a demographic that other WB or UPN shows don't.

HalJordan4184

03-28-2006, 11:03 AM

It's the forefront, because right now, it's the highest rated show on the WB, but that hardly means it's numbers are good. It doesn't even rank in the top fifty TV shows.

It's numbers were best in season one and two, and that speaks volumes about what the audiences wanted, and expected, versus what was delivered. As much as FOTW stories are lame, in the first two seasons, we had actual character development and prgression. Seasons three through five have been all about character regression, but then tptb characterized the whole thing as a learning curve, and Clark will miraculously lightswitch out of it, much like Lex.

Did the show jump the shark, for a lot of people, yes. It happened when the show came to be mroe about Clark and Lana's sex life, than it did about Clark growing up. Discovering sexuality is a part of growing up yes, but it shouldn't be the central focus of a show that is supposedly out to show us how Superman came to be.

DreadShamus

03-28-2006, 11:11 AM

Ahhh, I didn't realize my sex comment was in a different thread.

But yes, I think it was the 'regaining faith' thread.

In season four they started doing overly skimpy lingerie and sex scenes. I was very dissapointed because if I was a parent who liked watching this show with my kids that would have killed it all off. And of course the 'fresh' episode coming up is about Clark having 'sex' yet again. Or at least getting a girl down to her panties in the commercial.

This is what really 'Jumped the Shark' for me in Buffy TVS as well...

Jason1779

03-28-2006, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by Shinzon2004
Clark can fly,but he is afraid of it.Besides,he doesnt want his
Kryptonian heritage or his powers,how many times have we hared him, "I want to have a normal life" stuff and such.

When does Clark fly? Kal-el flys but clark can't. that episode when he proposes to lana isn;t a fly its a jump...... all of clarks powers hav been introduced as they come... they woulden't just throw in "ok i can fly now suprise" and than never use it again for the rest of the season.

He Who Lurks

03-28-2006, 09:45 PM

Haha, if you go to Wikipedia and look up "Jumping the Shark", they actually cite the "Clark and Lana have sex" moment (Mortal?) as a possible jumping of the shark.

DreadShamus

03-29-2006, 05:18 AM

Originally posted by Jason1779
When does Clark fly? Kal-el flys but clark can't. that episode when he proposes to lana isn;t a fly its a jump...... all of clarks powers hav been introduced as they come... they woulden't just throw in "ok i can fly now suprise" and than never use it again for the rest of the season. Of course they would do that! Letting him fly in a scene that ends up never happening due to time travel sounds just like what these writers would do. They don't really make it clear if its flying or jumping as far as I can see.

UpandAtom

03-29-2006, 08:03 AM

Originally posted by He Who Lurks
Haha, if you go to Wikipedia and look up "Jumping the Shark", they actually cite the "Clark and Lana have sex" moment (Mortal?) as a possible jumping of the shark.

I don't think the Clana sex was the moment the show jumped the shark. Sure the ratings might have slightly been down after that, but the quality of the show increased (as evidenced by "Hidden"). The jump the shark moment was definetely before that. If I had to place it, I would either pick "Slumber" or "Crusade". "Slumber" because after that episode there a 50% ratings drop and "Crusade" because at that point it became evident that Smallville cared more about ratings than good storylines.

biggkoz

03-30-2006, 08:46 PM

After tonight episode I am now thinking it may get sour.

Welling Is Hot

03-30-2006, 09:12 PM

***The theme from jaws plays in the background***

UpandAtom

03-31-2006, 03:30 PM

Right now Smallville is being digested in the shark's stomach.

tjpw fanatic

03-31-2006, 03:53 PM

im going to keep the faith and let go the fact that last nights episode wasnt that great..other than the 2 minutes with clark's shirt off..but im not going to give up on it! next week's episode looks awesome! come on people it hasnt jumped the shark yet..its just testing the waters a little bit:)

sherw1n

03-31-2006, 05:03 PM

Yes

The show has steered off course about superman growing up and now is about showing hot attractive young people take their clothes off :(

LexLuthorMetropolis

03-31-2006, 05:24 PM

It's Lana, Lana, Lana, Lana.

i love u tom

03-31-2006, 06:11 PM

Originally posted by sherw1n
Yes

The show has steered off course about superman growing up and now is about showing hot attractive young people take their clothes off :(

if its clark thats not really a problem :D lol but really i think that they will find their way back to the storyline with brainiac coming back.

tjpw fanatic

04-01-2006, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by i love u tom
if its clark thats not really a problem :D lol but really i think that they will find their way back to the storyline with brainiac coming back.

i agree with you i love u tom! personally i could watch an entire episode with nothing in it but clark walking around shirtless:lol:

dayne

04-01-2006, 01:17 PM

The show has never really been a great show. It's a decent show, but it has never been great. The reason most people watch is because of the "Superman" brand name.

People talk about plot holes these days as if they never really existed before. Plot holes have existed on this show since day one. Furthermore, the first two seasons focused mostly on Kryptonite FOTW, which got repetitive real fast. Last year's witch and cave storylines were complete disasters.

That being said, I still like Smallville and I prefer watching it to most other shows.

UpandAtom

04-01-2006, 02:20 PM

It was definetely last season's witch arc and stone saga that led to the show jumping the shark.

tjpw fanatic

04-01-2006, 02:29 PM

^^im sorry but i disagree with that. i liked that hole thing it was much better than all the FOTW's. It was interesting because clark learned more about his heritage. so i dont know why you guys all think that its so bad..but lets agree to disagree

UpandAtom

04-01-2006, 02:32 PM

Clark didn't learn anything about his heritage. I'm not saying that the stones saga wasn't a good idead, but there were better ways to approach that. If they needed to make the stones saga last an entire season, they should've made it more entertaining. The same thing goes for Lana's multiple personality disorder.

Summers

04-01-2006, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by tjpw fanatic
^^im sorry but i disagree with that. i liked that hole thing it was much better than all the FOTW's. It was interesting because clark learned more about his heritage. so i dont know why you guys all think that its so bad..but lets agree to disagree

At least with FoTWs there are no plot holes. The Witch/Stone arc is covered with them. It's like Swiss Cheese because of all the plot holes :lol:. Like UP said Clark didn't learn anything about his hertiage. The rush work of "Arrival" and Clark's decisions from S2-S5 have has pretty much stopped him from learning anything about his Kryptonian Hertiage.

watcher4

04-01-2006, 04:28 PM

It has jumped and skipped and danced!!

tjpw fanatic

04-01-2006, 04:35 PM

there are a couple plot holes..in fact there are quite a bit..my sister and i were talking about how we know the show better than the writers..however i still thoroughly enjoy the show and hope it continues for atleast another season and i still dont believe that it is a bad show

Timester

04-01-2006, 06:54 PM

And let's be honest here. What's the thing that is common with all bad plots/arcs? Season 2, Mary Sue Lana and the despinning of Chloe because of that (ok, it wasn't that bad). Season 3, yoyo Clana. Season 4, the witch arc. Season 5, the Clana again and Triangle from Hell. IT'S. STILL. EVERYTHING. ABOUT. LANA.

The obsession with a secondary character on the promise of Smallville is the fault of all.

j-kent

04-01-2006, 10:39 PM

Let me say that there are COUNTLESS things that Smallville has jumped the shark with: Lex Luthor meets Clark as a young boy- what about later is Metropolis man???? Lois comes into Clark's young life??? kryptonians sent ancient relics to earth??? witch arc??? Lana hates Clark and doesn't know his secret??? Brainiac has already showed up???..huhh??????!?!?... the thing is, it's all questionable, but I think it fits Smallville...Smallville wouldn't have lasted this long if it didn't have its jumps and twists. To bring things up that's not even suppose to be happening in Clark's youth is a risk, and doesn't really fit too well with Superman mythology, BUT it works for us because it's entertaining...right?

BenG

04-01-2006, 10:56 PM

Originally posted by j-kent
Let me say that there are COUNTLESS things that Smallville has jumped the shark with: Lex Luthor meets Clark as a young boy- what about later is Metropolis man???? Lois comes into Clark's young life??? kryptonians sent ancient relics to earth??? witch arc??? Lana hates Clark and doesn't know his secret??? Brainiac has already showed up???..huhh??????!?!?... the thing is, it's all questionable, but I think it fits Smallville...Smallville wouldn't have lasted this long if it didn't have its jumps and twists. To bring things up that's not even suppose to be happening in Clark's youth is a risk, and doesn't really fit too well with Superman mythology, BUT it works for us because it's entertaining...right?

I agree.

There were 'plot holes' from the beginning. But the fact is, would we all be here on a SMALLVILLE FAN SITE if the show was so bad? Don't think so. It is a very entertaining show. And that's what ultimately matters.

I'll be the first to say there are a million other shows that have writing WAY better than Smallville, and the SV really jumps the shark at times and can be just plain stupid. But I also know that it is my favorite show. Not because of Lana, not because of the Superman logo, not because of the writing.

It's because, out of all the shows I watch, I am the most entertained. I prefer it over many others. I really don't know why, I just like it a lot because I just like watching it. It's as simple as that.

I don't mind picking at plotholes and complaining. I have fun nitpicking. But to say it's an utterly bad show is just absurd, especially on a forum devoted to people who love the thing.

GooN

04-02-2006, 05:01 AM

i watch each episode to see what i can b1tch about to all you people who i will never see in my life.......and get into major bs discussions of how sh1tty the series has "become"

only j/k of course :D its not a joke directed at anyone inparticular so don't get all lex in shattered on me..

Shinzon2004

04-02-2006, 02:12 PM

The show should be named then "LANAVILLE" because it focus now on Lana and less about Clark.

I agree,the ptbt are fascinated with Lana,althougth they had gave us Clark Lana has been the main character.

I say they must move beyond Lana and focus more with Clark
and his destiny.Change Lana into a secondary character,she was Clark s highschool sweetheart but that was way in season 1,this is season 5...they should focus now on Lois and Clark,since they decided to add Lois in Smallville which wasnt a very good idea...

HalJordan4184

04-02-2006, 04:23 PM

I remember reading Doris Egan's blog, one of the season one writers who was let go. She had a great plan she talked about, and talked about how she and other writers saw the characters adn their relationships, and how it differed from what Al/Miles gave us.

Basically, as far as she was concerned, and some of the other season one writers, was that Lana would be a side character. She's not important at all in the development of Clark into Superman. She doesn't guide him, she doesn't mold him or shape him, nothing. She was just there to look pretty. She's be seen, and not heard, an in some cases, not even seen. Slowly Clark and Lana would become friends, and this fantasy girl he had imagined, would fade away to be replaced by a girl who isn't half of what he thought she was, and Clark grows past his boyhood crush, and learns what really matters in a relationship, and partner. All while Clark and Lana remain friends, but nothing really more.

I'd much prefer that to the Clana yo yo we've gotten, and I think if done the way she described it, so would a lot of other people.

Smokethatkryptonite

04-02-2006, 04:27 PM

If only they went with that. Then Clark would grow up. He's 18 or 19 and he's still playing wiht his telescope when he sees Lana!

Clarkified

04-02-2006, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I remember reading Doris Egan's blog, one of the season one writers who was let go. She had a great plan she talked about, and talked about how she and other writers saw the characters adn their relationships, and how it differed from what Al/Miles gave us.

Basically, as far as she was concerned, and some of the other season one writers, was that Lana would be a side character. She's not important at all in the development of Clark into Superman. She doesn't guide him, she doesn't mold him or shape him, nothing. She was just there to look pretty. She's be seen, and not heard, an in some cases, not even seen. Slowly Clark and Lana would become friends, and this fantasy girl he had imagined, would fade away to be replaced by a girl who isn't half of what he thought she was, and Clark grows past his boyhood crush, and learns what really matters in a relationship, and partner. All while Clark and Lana remain friends, but nothing really more.

I'd much prefer that to the Clana yo yo we've gotten, and I think if done the way she described it, so would a lot of other people.

If it's not against the rules, can you please give me the address of that blog?

HalJordan4184

04-02-2006, 08:23 PM

i wish i could remember, someone else on ksite gave it to me. For some reason Shirkie comes to mind.

Cor-el

04-02-2006, 11:11 PM

I think they have to return to the whole Clark becoming Superman theme which is what the show is supposed to be about. They need to also stop making Clark so illogical. I mean he is supposed to be an intelligent being from another planet. He is the least bright person on the show. Acts irrationally and doesn't think things through. I mean come on..is this NOT Superman. They need to stop making this to be such a drama and back to it being about SUPERMAN. I thought the FOS would change things, but nothing, only a slight change. They need to get back to biz.

MBCorp

04-02-2006, 11:33 PM

Originally posted by Clarkified
If it's not against the rules, can you please give me the address of that blog?

It's right here: http://tightropegirl.livejournal.com/7654.html#cutid1

Clarkified

04-03-2006, 08:21 AM

Thanks a lot. :)

DreadShamus

04-11-2006, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184

Basically, as far as she was concerned, and some of the other season one writers, was that Lana would be a side character. She's not important at all in the development of Clark into Superman. She doesn't guide him, she doesn't mold him or shape him, nothing. She was just there to look pretty. She's be seen, and not heard, an in some cases, not even seen. Slowly Clark and Lana would become friends, and this fantasy girl he had imagined, would fade away to be replaced by a girl who isn't half of what he thought she was, and Clark grows past his boyhood crush, and learns what really matters in a relationship, and partner. All while Clark and Lana remain friends, but nothing really more.

I'd much prefer that to the Clana yo yo we've gotten, and I think if done the way she described it, so would a lot of other people. I agree with you that they have ruined SV with the constant 'Lana as the other main character idea, however she was an important character in the Superboy comics, and she even has superpowers for a while as Queen Bee or some such deal.
I can deal with her being a main supporting character, but at times it does feel like they write half of the shows to be about her instead of Clark or Clark and Lex.

krypton_gurl85

04-11-2006, 08:40 AM

Yep. it gets old after a while.

Shinzon2004

04-11-2006, 02:08 PM

So,who is the main character of Smallville (as of season 5)?
Lana or Clark? I believe that they have developed Lana too much
and the worse was the witch arc.Come on,enough of Lana!!

I dont hate her or anything but the show was about Clark Kent..
And Lex Luthor I forgot to mention him.However this season has becomed more Lanaville than Smallville...

.

LuckyKrypto

04-11-2006, 04:19 PM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
I remember reading Doris Egan's blog, one of the season one writers who was let go. She had a great plan she talked about, and talked about how she and other writers saw the characters adn their relationships, and how it differed from what Al/Miles gave us.

Basically, as far as she was concerned, and some of the other season one writers, was that Lana would be a side character. She's not important at all in the development of Clark into Superman. She doesn't guide him, she doesn't mold him or shape him, nothing. She was just there to look pretty. She's be seen, and not heard, an in some cases, not even seen. Slowly Clark and Lana would become friends, and this fantasy girl he had imagined, would fade away to be replaced by a girl who isn't half of what he thought she was, and Clark grows past his boyhood crush, and learns what really matters in a relationship, and partner. All while Clark and Lana remain friends, but nothing really more.

I'd much prefer that to the Clana yo yo we've gotten, and I think if done the way she described it, so would a lot of other people.

That was a very interesting read from Doris. After I read it, it only made me think "if only..."
:\

hotkk

04-15-2006, 08:30 PM

I just wanted to put this thread on the first page because I think the title is really meaningful...

Normally, we don't realise when a show jumps the shark while it happens, but more after it ends we point out a moment where we say... that was it...

Now, I'm afraid reckoning will be the point that many will say "that's the moment"... What you guys think? I personally liked this episode, but I admit the time travel seems more and more like an easy way out... I'm one hundred percent behind the decision of killin Pa Kent though, but killing Lana so clark realises he can't be with her... Wasn't there any other option?

So ,did Smallville jumped the shark at this moment? Or in season 4 with the witch thing, or at any other moment? Or do you think smallville is as good as ever, even though they showed 6 filler in a row?

Small2

04-15-2006, 10:44 PM

hotkk,
I've been intriqued by this also, so I looked up the last two years of Nielsen Ratings from TVWeek to analyze them.

Here's what I get out of them.

Season 4 was a slow downward trend after Spell (3.4) with a big drop-off starting with Onyx (2.3). but a nice ending with Commencement (3.1).

Season 5 had a good beginning (3.5) and stayed very steady up through Reckoning (3.9). It has been in a downward spiral ever since. Every week the ratings are smaller than the one before. Void was a 2.7 and I expect Fragile should be around 2.5. The show has lost over 1.5 million viewers since the beginning of the season, or roughly 30 percent of its viewership.

So with Reckoning, Smallville has jumped the Shark in a sense. It wasn't a precipitous drop normally associated with sharking, but very distinct nevertheless.

My read is there were two primary factors in the storyline that viewers liked that have changed.

1) A positive Lana and Clark relationship.

2) Good movement on the CLASSIC Superman and Lex Luthor stories. The current storyline is too much in the magic realm (doesn't anyone who dies stay dead? I realise such storylines are a good lead-in to Supernatural but I want Superman not GhostWhispers!)

The first factor may be the most important and appears to have been irreverisibly damaged. The second factor can still be improved but I'm not sure it will be enough.

I don't believe the witch storyline was a sharking. It just wasn't enough to help the show get over the on again, off again Lana-Clark relationship, and the slow movement of where Superman and Lex Luthor needed to get to.

chloe's pal

04-16-2006, 08:28 AM

I still love this show ... and yes there are one or two episodes I could do without (Thirst comes to mind), and people are right in saying it should be less Lana focused ... but at the end of the day I will tune in and watch the next episode!

And I can't really say that I trust ratings ... they are the statistics of a limited demographic ... no one has EVER asked me which shows I watch or how often etc ....

HalJordan4184

04-16-2006, 10:03 AM

It'snot a limited demographic at all. It's a very representitive sample of who watches TV. The ratings are pretty close tot he actual numbers. It's not like 60 million poeple actually watch smallville, but through some sheer coincidence, only like 2000 people with nielsen boxes do.

chloe's pal

04-16-2006, 11:27 AM

the demographic is limited to the people who have this nielson box you mentioned ... operative word in that sentence, limited.

I don't live in America, nor do any of my friends who love Smallville .... in which sample of the populace are we represented where it comes to ratings? Do the people involved in that aspect of television production ever bother to check the myriad fan sites such as this to test the popularity and therefore saleability of their product?

Please don't feel this is a personal attack, just frustration at the aribitrary decisions that are based on 'ratings' ... too many good sci fi shows are axed due to the shortsightedness of this careful and considered manner of judging a TV shows success (Firefly jumps forcefully to mind).

I can only hope that Smallville does not fall foul of the same .... travesty. :(

HalJordan4184

04-16-2006, 11:31 PM

You don't live in America. That's fine for you, but why is an American network going to produce a show, for an overseas audience, that often times, doesn't even equal the american viewing audience? YOu aren't asked by American ratings people what you watch, because you don't live in America. THat's like opening a factory in Russia, that makes shirts, and then going and asking what German people want the shirts to be like, and then selling the shirts solely to people in Sri Lanka.

Nielsen ratings are actually quite good in determining how well a show is doing. If the network, in the case of firefly, does something stupid, like moving it's place in the schedule continuously, or switching the air dates of continuity reliant episodes, the ratings drop. THat's what happened to FireFly.

Smallville isn't being unfairly judged, it's ratings are slipping. That's because people are not watching the show anymore, and new poeple aren't tuning in.

caradoc

04-16-2006, 11:45 PM

There is nothing wrong with featuring Lana per se. After all Lois& Clark was 90% Lois.

The problem is that the Lana character is being so poorly handled. Her parents died and that made her insecure. We get that. But for all she has been through, we see no growth as a person. As others around her are becoming adults, Lana remains a child.

DreadShamus

04-17-2006, 07:10 AM

With Lex finally embarking on his more 'evil' nature (at least it finally seems that he has excepted his path in the last few episodes) I think the show will strengthen. I do worry that they will use this whole LexLana relationship as a story device to continue the whole ClarkLana painful confrontation storyline.

I don't think the show has Jumped the Shark in a complete sense, I think they loose a lot of viewers because of the 5 week break they take. I know I lost interest in waiting for the new episodes to start back up during last season.

I don't know what genius came up with the big break every year, but it seriously dampens my eagerness for the show.

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
It'snot a limited demographic at all. It's a very representitive sample of who watches TV. The ratings are pretty close tot he actual numbers. It's not like 60 million poeple actually watch smallville, but through some sheer coincidence, only like 2000 people with nielsen boxes do. The WB is also not available in all markets. I know plenty of people who could never watch shows like Buffy until it moved to UPN. At the same time UPN is not available in several areas.

With the two stations merging I look forward to seeing ratings once SV is available in all markets.

Originally posted by caradoc
There is nothing wrong with featuring Lana per se. After all Lois& Clark was 90% Lois.

The problem is that the Lana character is being so poorly handled. Her parents died and that made her insecure. We get that. But for all she has been through, we see no growth as a person. As others around her are becoming adults, Lana remains a child. 90%??? How do you get that ratio? Lois & Clark did a great job of mixing up the story time between Lois, Clark, Ma & Pa Kent, Lex and the suporting cast of Perry, Cat and Jimmy.

Plus the whole point of the show was it was the story of both Lois AND Clark while having the 'Further adventures of Superman' happening as a major part of their relationship.

Dannyblue1

04-17-2006, 07:49 AM

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
It'snot a limited demographic at all. It's a very representitive sample of who watches TV.

True. They try to make the people with Nielson boxes representative of the American population. For example, if a certain percentage of the population is a certain race, that same percentage of people with Nielson boxes are that race. If a certain percentage of the population is a certain age and sex, they try to make the same percentage of people with Nielson boxes that age and sex. So, they assume that if %10 percent of the African American women between 18 and 34 with Nielson boxes are watching a certain show, then 10% of all the African American women in the country between 18 and 34 who don't have Nielson boxes are also watching that show.

It's not a perfect system. Everyone, even the folks at Nielson, agree on that. But they do try to make it as accurate as it's possible to make such a system.

chloe's pal

04-17-2006, 08:10 AM

despite the inference that my opinion is of no relevance due to my lack of American citizenship, that opinion remains the same.

I still enjoy Smallville, and will remain a faithful supporter as long as they continue to produce the show.

Yes I would also like to see Lana develop in a more ... interesting direction, but the show is more than one character, and as much as I am irritated by her character at times, I will continue to enjoy the show as a whole.

DreadShamus

04-17-2006, 08:26 AM

Originally posted by chloe's pal
despite the inference that my opinion is of no relevance due to my lack of American citizenship, that opinion remains the same.

I still enjoy Smallville, and will remain a faithful supporter as long as they continue to produce the show.

Yes I would also like to see Lana develop in a more ... interesting direction, but the show is more than one character, and as much as I am irritated by her character at times, I will continue to enjoy the show as a whole. Don't worry about it. :lol:
Its not completely true that they don't care about overseas TV fans. Buffy TVS was available on DVD in Europe over a year before it came out here. U.S. producers realize the money they make on shows that Europeans enjoy.

HalJordan4184

04-17-2006, 09:40 AM

Who said your opinion wasn't relevant due to lack of American citizenship. Your complaint, that they don't ask you what you watch, isn't valid, because you don't count someone not living in or watching the show in America, when you count American ratings. How does this infer your opinion isn't valid?

You said, you and your friends don't live in America, that's fine. You are part of the foreign market then. You don't make a show, solely based on how well it will do in the foreign market. That's a consideration when deciding whether or not to make a show, sure, but it's not the be all or end all. The WB is an American company, and they make shows primarily for American audiences. Whether a million people in England, or France, or Germany, or Russia like it, doesn't matter. American advertisors, who finance the whole show, aren't paying for their ads to be shown to European customers, who may not even be able to get the product.

kf6tac

04-17-2006, 10:24 AM

I was pretty certain that Smallville jumped the shark in Season 4 when everyone went off on their magical rock hunt. Then Season 5 came and started out strong, and I thought maybe they were still clinging to the shark by its dorsal fin and trying to climb back on. Now... they're falling off.

hotkk

04-17-2006, 11:37 AM

Originally posted by kf6tac
I was pretty certain that Smallville jumped the shark in Season 4 when everyone went off on their magical rock hunt. Then Season 5 came and started out strong, and I thought maybe they were still clinging to the shark by its dorsal fin and trying to climb back on. Now... they're falling off.

Yeah, I agree. I think it has been one of the most disapointing season so far for two reasons:

1) It started strong, really strong. Arrival, Mortal and Hidden were great, as were Solitude and Splinter (and Ipersonnaly loved a lot reckoning...). But there has been two much filler. They seemed to have forget to put an arc for the whole season. At the begenning there was Pa kent in office, then he died. Then CK must learn to live with it, and they didn't show that particularly well. Clark has had no arc from the 4th to the 12th episode. And after that, it has been pretty weak too. And could someone tell me why Smallville always need weak subplot? In Vengeance for instance, the angel was really unnecessary. It would have been easy to make a character oriented episode about grief and don,t care about the angel of vengeance. You then bring it in the next episode, and you simply kill the episode tomb... It's been disapointing

2) Then, the Lack of originality is worse than in any season. For intsance:

Arrival = Superman 2
Mortal and Hidden = Smallville episode Leech
Aqua = Another superhero, not greatly done IMHO
Thirst = Spell 2 and Buffy
Exposed = Where's Demi moore?
Splinter = I liked it, but it was not that different from Shattered
Solitude = Fever
Lexmas, Fanatic = ok, they had not done that, I think.
Lockdown = Panic room
Recknoning = Superman 1 in a way. A lot were frustrated by this one
Vengeance : Ok i guess, but as I said before...
Tomb = WTF?
Cyborg = a good one, fine with me
Hypnotic = Unsafe
Void = The freak movie with Kevin Bacon...
Fragile: Ryan 3 (wasn't too bad)
Upcoming Mercy: A compelte rip of an horror movie (I'll keep the suprise for the one who hasn't seen any trailer)

Understand me right though. I love this show. I have seen every episode at least 5 times. But still, since I started watching 24, I realised that the writting is pretty average on Smallville. It could be so great! And I would love Superman even more!

Why does AL&Miles don't write anymore (I know, mercy reef...). They did the best episode! Come Back to this show, please!!!!

HalJordan4184

04-17-2006, 01:38 PM

the real question is, why did the fire some of the best writers they had at the end of season one?

DreadShamus

04-18-2006, 07:11 AM

Originally posted by hotkk

Fragile: Ryan 3 (wasn't too bad)
I was talking about this in another thread. It is the best example of how repetative they have gotten. 2 Ryan episodes and then the one with the superaging Baby..(Ageless right?)
Just excuses for them to shower Clark with 'You're such a natural with children!'
That with the 2 superhero appearances. They are just taking somewhat successful past episodes and rehashing them with very small twists making no real difference.

The only way I see this show as possibly Jumping the Shark is how they seem to have lost the ability to make original storys. At least stop ripping off your own show! :cool:

Small2

04-18-2006, 12:18 PM

It's almost as if they only have to write something decent through sweeps, coast through the second half with a bunch of fillers and then put together a two part cliff hanger at the end.

There is definitely a lack of original stories and arcs. Its almost that they feel there is only a small ways to go to get to the end of the SV storyline, but they want to drag it out for as many years as they can.

Before Reckoning Lana was intent on discovering the origin of the meteors, and who Clark Kent was, and she was basically there. It was why Clark felt he had to take her the the FOS. Breaking up with her would not negate her knowledge or interest in the subject matter. Whatever happened to that storyline?

Unless they show Clark quitting school and becoming a farmer, what's the point of staying in Smallville? Hence, what's the point of calling it Smallville?

mag

04-19-2006, 03:02 AM

Originally posted by Small2
It's almost as if they only have to write something decent through sweeps, coast through the second half with a bunch of fillers and then put together a two part cliff hanger at the end.

It's exactly what I said to a friend, not so long ago. That with SV, the only interesting episodes to watch are the first two episodes of the season, the last two episodes of the season, and one or two in the middle.

It made me appreciate a show like The 4400 more. 6 episodes for the 1rst season, 13 episodes for the 2nd season. That's just what the writers need to write a good show, and spare us the boring filler episodes.

SV should copy the 4400 format.

DreadShamus

04-19-2006, 07:10 AM

They need to take some ideas from how X-Files was done. They made sure that a certain amount of episodes (usually 7 to 9) revolved around the 'mythology' of the government/alien conspiracy and then were free to do random shows the rest of the year. Smallville seems to hit the 'season storyline' for a couple episodes in the beginning and ending, and then just randomly mention it in 5 minute segements of other episodes. Keeps you having to watch each episode to know everything, but also weakens the season's affect.

BenG

04-19-2006, 10:45 PM

Originally posted by DreadShamus
They need to take some ideas from how X-Files was done. They made sure that a certain amount of episodes (usually 7 to 9) revolved around the 'mythology' of the government/alien conspiracy and then were free to do random shows the rest of the year. Smallville seems to hit the 'season storyline' for a couple episodes in the beginning and ending, and then just randomly mention it in 5 minute segements of other episodes. Keeps you having to watch each episode to know everything, but also weakens the season's affect.

I agree...to an extent.

Judging by the bordem brought on by the too-long drawn out witch/stone storyline of season 4, it does take a toll on the effect of the season when it takes forever to move along a story.

However, I know for a fact that if there was only a few pure mythology episodes and the rest stand alones, EVERYONE would be complaining about fillers. And everyone already complains about those, so imagine how bad it would be if there were twice as many.

Yes, it worked with X-Files, but one thing X-Files had that Smallville doesn't was a) an extremely complex series of storylines and b) one big question that hanged over the entire series. Smallville really doesn't have one big question to be solved in the final episode (unless you count, "how does he turn into supes?", but we already know most of that story, so that isn't exactly a mystery). Smallville ONLY has the individual season-long story arcs.

Maybe if it was a midseason show, with 13 episodes or so, it could focus on more of a concentrated storyline, with less fillers to draw out a full 22 episode season. But then most of us wouldn't get our full Smallville fix, so I guess we're just going to have to deal with what we've got. More than likely it won't change.

Small2

04-20-2006, 12:28 PM

BenG
What if you went to a 13 ep season. Would that be better for selling past season DVDs and reruns?

If you kept a more focused overall storlyine, (and thereby eliminated most of the filler eps), would viewers be more inclined to buy the past season DVDs and watch reruns?

While it might be too late for SV, could you recreate the StarTrek experience where they didn't even make 100 shows but it reran forever.

As they appear to lose money on the initial making of the episodes, but have made a lot of $$ on DVD sales and reruns, which would be better from a business model perspective?

Action Comics # 1

08-16-2006, 10:44 AM

Has SMALLVILLE Jumped The Shark?

This is a question thats been burning in my mind as of late.

For those who are not familiar with the term, click here:

Jumping The Shark (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark)

Anyways, as a fan of the Superman character and the show, I feel the show is struggling to keep going, for example,.. I think it's becoming too dependant on using other characters of the DC universe to keep viewers interested.

Also, I feel last season,.. there was an opportunity for Clark to grow and mature, but it just dragged, thus seeming to try to stretch the series and prolongue him from moving forward.

He went to school for a few episodes, then quit. He doesnt have a job. He loiters around the daily planet bothering CHLOE at work? Does anyone else here bother their friends constantley at their office? I would get punched in the face if i did that to my friends. lol

There's no interest in either him NOR lois to start a journalism career i.e. journalism school (theyre WELL into late teens or very early twenties now)

Yet,.. we're supposed to forget all this because we see JImmy Olsen and the Green Arrow on the show.

Clark has some growing up to do,.. both as a HERO,.. and as CLARK KENT,.. future ACE reporter of The Daily Planet.

Clark has to move forward. Start making the steps that will lead him into the person we all know. Right now, it feels the show is afraid to do that, fearing the END is near.

Every version of the mythology has its own take,.. At this age, Clark in the movies have him moving away to the arctic, meeting Jor-el at the fortress while he's being educated into being SUPERMAN. (supposedly it takes 12 years or so for this process)

The comics have him going to journalism school,... then traveling the world to educate himself about different kinds of people and cultures.

What do we have him do in SMALLVILLE? Alot of crying about Lana,.. whining about Jor-el,.. and bothering Chloe at the PLANET.

Get a JOB!, kid... or go to school.. do SOMETHING!!!!

We need to see him take the proper steps,.. soon.

What does everyone else think?

torinoblue

08-16-2006, 10:51 AM

Yes, he really needs to get a hold of himself.

He also needs to bang Chloe to get it out of their system, but it seems that's not going to happen. :(

Another-One

08-16-2006, 11:47 AM

Smallville jumped the shark a long time ago. I would say around season 4.

hassenmorad

08-16-2006, 03:55 PM

The reason why I don't think Smallville hasn't jumped the shark is because the show seems to have lost it's focus a little, but there are definitely some things that we know ought to be focused on. So the fact that something is there convinces me that the show hasn't jumped the shark just yet, but rather the show needs to get back on track and focus on the development of Clark into Superman.

KU Superdude

08-16-2006, 04:20 PM

Well I guess we can solve this problem if Clark grows a beard...

lee_the_flee

08-16-2006, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by torinoblue He also needs to bang Chloe to get it out of their system, but it seems that's not going to happen. :(

:rotfl:

But yeah, Action Comics #1, some good points there. But as hassenmorad said, the show may have lost its focus more than jumping the shark. It needs to get on track with Clark finally getting over lana, journalism kicking in with Clark and Lois, and ofcourse Clark embracing his "destiny" (even though he hates that word).

It would be jumping the shark if they already did all this but were still gonna do another season about something dumb.

Action Comics # 1

08-16-2006, 05:08 PM

Yeah,.. im going to try to agree with the above, and hope that both hassenmorad and lee_the_flee are right, so we'll see.

But I still do think that introducing DC characters (that he shouldnt even meet now at this stage of his life) is a bit too gimicky.

There's alot of stuff/material the producers can work with here, WITHOUT the need of using the "go-to method of getting a DC character".

Clark is a complex character with alot of potential for great writing. I dont think adding green arrow, nor a Jimmy olsen (who's older than Clark) is neccessary.

The point is (Much like the Anakin/Vader storyline in the Star wars Prequels),... we ALL know who he's SUPPOSED to become,.. but are all the steps and changes in the mythology the writers are taking, ... are they the correct steps that lead him to that path?

Just a thought.

krpto

08-16-2006, 06:50 PM

Not yet but if they keep ignoring fans wanting lana to know the truth about clark they will.

AlphaSigmaOne

08-16-2006, 07:42 PM

Not quite. It's come close. But as others have said, it's more to do with the show “loosing its focus.” I think the closest to “Shark Jumping” it's come is the Isobel story line—and possibly the Adam Knight super-freak. However, in both cases the show managed to (if even by a thread) hang onto its original theme and premise despite being ridiculously silly.

However, a good shark jumping moment might come if some of the rumors about Martha come true.

mikepro44

08-16-2006, 08:01 PM

yeah some points i thought it has jumped the shark then it comes back and get back on track, i was thinkin that it jumped when the lana witch story came into it

Kal-ed

08-16-2006, 08:03 PM

I completely agree, the problem is the name of the show, it already caused conflict that a lot of things have been happening in Metropolis with the show being Smallville, that would strike as odd. How ever he is not nearly close to what he should be at that point, I know SV doesnt do canon but come on, there are some musts even if its an AU.

Anyway, I would have loved if the last 3 seasons instead of dragging the Clana issue so long, and the stones and witches plot it would have been nice to see Clark traveling around the world, and learning from different cultures and discovering why the world need a hero and humanity a guiding light, but so far his only true path has revolved around his romantic life and everything falls in second place, in fact most of the lifes he has saved were collateral to his own agenda, not people he was actually trying to save. I know he is still not superman but I just dont see him getting nowhere.

AlphasigmaOne, what Martha rumors??