Let it grow on you! [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

mfluder

01-30-2006, 12:54 AM

Originally posted by KRAM-el
The only thing growing here is MOSS. It was boring & contrived the first time, & it'll be boring & contrived the 100th time. Can't speak for anyone else but I STILL hate it... in fact, EVEN MORE than I did the first time. I was too in 'shock' then to even realize how poorly written it REALLY was...

LOL! KRAM-El, get out of my brain! My first reaction was "yeah, but stand still long enough and mould will grow on you, too". <g>

After the 100th ep of SG1, and now this 100th ep, I swear from now on I will avoid every 100th episode for any other show I ever watch again. It was an utter waste of a good character and two good relationships - Clark and Lana, but most especially Clark and Jonathan.

I will never forgive them for this drek.

mfl

Toppa

01-30-2006, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by KRAM-el
The only thing growing here is MOSS. It was boring & contrived the first time, & it'll be boring & contrived the 100th time. Can't speak for anyone else but I STILL hate it... in fact, EVEN MORE than I did the first time. I was too in 'shock' then to even realize how poorly written it REALLY was...

Oh well, I hope you're the minority.

Originally posted by smallville_fetish
Yeah right after it I had a mixture feeling of "WTF" and "I guess that WAS pretty damn GOOD" and after rewatching, yeah it IS good, great, and some other words between great and awesome.

I guess when people get over their disappointment they'll learn to like the episode a lot. At least I hope so, because it really was a strong episode.

umm

01-30-2006, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by mfluder
LOL! KRAM-El, get out of my brain! My first reaction was "yeah, but stand still long enough and mould will grow on you, too". <g>

After the 100th ep of SG1, and now this 100th ep, I swear from now on I will avoid every 100th episode for any other show I ever watch again. It was an utter waste of a good character and two good relationships - Clark and Lana, but most especially Clark and Jonathan.

I will never forgive them for this drek.

mfl

Oh, come on, not every 100th episode was a bad one! The 100th episode of Angel was great, which only shows you that there is still hope out there, and Smallville´s 100th episode wasn´t all that bad either, I mean we have watched worse episodes of that show in the past! Does the Isobel scenario ring a bell, in my mind those episodes still rank as the worst ones in the history of Smallville!

mfluder

01-30-2006, 02:48 AM

Originally posted by umm
Oh, come on, not every 100th episode was a bad one! The 100th episode of Angel was great, which only shows you that there is still hope out there, and Smallville´s 100th episode wasn´t all that bad either, I mean we have watched worse episodes of that show in the past! Does the Isobel scenario ring a bell, in my mind those episodes still rank as the worst ones in the history of Smallville!

Didn't see the 100th Angel one... I mean, I did, but it didn't register as a 100th.

Isobel scenario worse? Nope, it wasn't. Because none of those eps took out a major character (Jonathan) and ruined one of the best relationships on TV (father and son) and certainly one of the best on SV.

Jonathan's death was for nothing and all the episode did was show that Clark hasn't grown enough to be without his father, and to revert the Clark/Lana relationship back further than zero. Clark may ultimately end up with Lois, but it would be nice if the writers would give these two the chance to have more than one episode's worth of real happiness together. After 4 1/2 years of teasing, the audience deserved it, even if the future was to change it.

mfl

Dannyblue1

01-30-2006, 05:22 AM

A lot of people seem to believe that the reason people didn't like the 100th episode of SV was because JK died. But bringing up episode 100 of ANGEL is a great comparison. In episode 100 of ANGEL, my favorite character in all of the Jossverse died. I mean, my favorite favorite. And, yes, I hated the fact that my favorite character died. But that didn't stop me from loving the episode. And it didn't stop me from crying for half an hour after it was over. (And tearing up again every time I even thought of the episode. Which is unusual, because TV shows rarely make me cry.)

I think fans can take anything, even the death of a beloved character, if it's well done. So, it wasn't the fact that JK died that has really upset people. It was the way it happened, the circumstances around it, and the sort of contrived build-up to it.

KRAM-el

01-30-2006, 07:26 AM

And for those of us who didn't like it & still don't... maybe, just maybe, our passion for the show & wanting & expecting so much more... then being let down like a boulder off a cliff -- was just too much for our "oh-so-fragile" psyches to take. :D

Oh -- and mfluder -- no "mold" but a heckuva lot of dust!!! :lol:

mfluder

01-30-2006, 08:07 AM

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
A lot of people seem to believe that the reason people didn't like the 100th episode of SV was because JK died. But bringing up episode 100 of ANGEL is a great comparison. In episode 100 of ANGEL, my favorite character in all of the Jossverse died. I mean, my favorite favorite. And, yes, I hated the fact that my favorite character died. But that didn't stop me from loving the episode. And it didn't stop me from crying for half an hour after it was over. (And tearing up again every time I even thought of the episode. Which is unusual, because TV shows rarely make me cry.)

I think fans can take anything, even the death of a beloved character, if it's well done. So, it wasn't the fact that JK died that has really upset people. It was the way it happened, the circumstances around it, and the sort of contrived build-up to it.

I'm going blank - who died in ep 100 of Angel?

mfl

DarthRageFist

01-30-2006, 08:22 AM

I'm just wondering why it matters to you if other people like or hate the 100th episode? Do you get a special prize if you convince 10 or more people to "learn to like" the 100th episode of Smallville?

I've never tried to convince anybody here to change their minds about a particular episode. I just state my opinion and if people agree that's great if not that's also okay.

You're just going to have to face the fact that there are a lot of people who didn't like this episode. If you check the "Did Reckoning live up to the hype?" poll at the top of this page half the people who took the poll are upset about the 100th episode. Those are not good numbers for an episode that was supposed to take the show in a "bold new direction".

Toppa

01-30-2006, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by DarthRageFist
I'm just wondering why it matters to you if other people like or hate the 100th episode? Do you get a special prize if you convince 10 or more people to "learn to like" the 100th episode of Smallville?

I've never tried to convince anybody here to change their minds about a particular episode. I just state my opinion and if people agree that's great if not that's also okay.

You're just going to have to face the fact that there are a lot of people who didn't like this episode. If you check the "Did Reckoning live up to the hype?" poll at the top of this page half the people who took the poll are upset about the 100th episode. Those are not good numbers for an episode that was supposed to take the show in a "bold new direction".

Oh be quiet, it was never that serious. I honestly don't care what people think about it. I was just saying that maybe if you watched it over you may have a different opinion. You need to calm down.

umm

01-30-2006, 09:55 AM

Originally posted by mfluder
I'm going blank - who died in ep 100 of Angel?

mfl

Cordelia died after having been in a coma sence the end of season 4 and through the first half of season 5! But the way they wrote the episode around Cordelia and her death was simply wonderful! She managed to get Angel back on track and away from his wayword path, she saw her gang one last time before passing away!
It was just an great episode, and her death actualy was a heroic one, becose she exchanged her life so that she could bring Angel back right on the right path towards one day becoming human and realizing how the Senior Partners can be stoped!

DarthRageFist

01-30-2006, 09:58 AM

Originally posted by Toppa
Oh be quiet, it was never that serious. I honestly don't care what people think about it. I was just saying that maybe if you watched it over you may have a different opinion. You need to calm down.

Sorry, I'm just getting really tired of some people trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong or that if I simply didn't like the 100th episode that I'm a "hater".

It's all good. If you would have added a smiley in your initial post then I would've known that you were not that serious. :p

All about Clark

01-30-2006, 10:25 AM

Ok, I'm a Clana fan, and I'm also a Superman fan.

It appeared to me, that if you were a Clana fan you did not like the ep and that if you were a Superman fan you did like it.

Once I got passed that fact that I wasn't going to get what I wanted, I realized it was an amazing episode, however, because of Clana going bad I was disappointed and at first thought I was going to lose interest. But I'm holding steady as a Superman fan. And hope in the end TPTB will give us what we want. I'm just sad regarding Clana and even sadder that Lexana is right around the corner and sad that they are going to make me hate Lana.

DarthRageFist

01-30-2006, 12:03 PM

EDITED: Never mind. I read something wrong.

Rafael122

01-30-2006, 12:11 PM

I didn't like the episode because they gave us 30 minutes of what looked to be one of the best episodes they've ever had, only to reverse everything and go back to square one. In the end, nothing got accomplished and its back to the drawing board.

So, to answer your question, the time reversal pissed me off.

Toppa

01-30-2006, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by DarthRageFist
Sorry, I'm just getting really tired of some people trying to tell me that my opinion is wrong or that if I simply didn't like the 100th episode that I'm a "hater".

It's all good. If you would have added a smiley in your initial post then I would've known that you were not that serious. :p

Cool. I'll remember that the next time.

Jack's_Son

01-30-2006, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by umm
Cordelia died after having been in a coma sence the end of season 4 and through the first half of season 5! But the way they wrote the episode around Cordelia and her death was wonderful! She managed to get Angel back on track and away from his wayword path, she saw her gang one last time before passing away! It was just an great episode, and her death actualy was an heroic one, becose she traited her life so that she could bring Angel back right on the right path towards one day becoming human and realizin how the Senior Partners can be stoped!

That episode was a great, great, episode. Especially at the end when Cordelia tells Angel, "I finally got my man back on track". She leaves the room and then comes back and says, "Oh what the hell, here's one for the road." She sweeps him in her arms and they kiss. (FINALLY) Or something like that. It was very special to see that Cordelia had finally broken that spell placed on Angel by Buffy. Cordelia may not have been Angel's first love, but she definitely was his last, including the Wolf-Girl.

lastdaughterofkrypton

01-30-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by All about Clark
Ok, I'm a Clana fan, and I'm also a Superman fan.

It appeared to me, that if you were a Clana fan you did not like the ep and that if you were a Superman fan you did like it.

Once I got passed that fact that I wasn't going to get what I wanted, I realized it was an amazing episode, however, because of Clana going bad I was disappointed and at first thought I was going to lose interest. But I'm holding steady as a Superman fan. And hope in the end TPTB will give us what we want. I'm just sad regarding Clana and even sadder that Lexana is right around the corner and sad that they are going to make me hate Lana.

Oh that will explain I liked it the first time around because I'm mostly a Superman fan and I wanted Clana to end since S4 so I love it.
Long dead the Clana!!! :D
and
BTW
It was indeed a great 100th on Angel...couldn't we get Joss wirte Smallville at least for a few episodes??? :(

SamIam

01-30-2006, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by Rafael122
I didn't like the episode because they gave us 30 minutes of what looked to be one of the best episodes they've ever had, only to reverse everything and go back to square one. In the end, nothing got accomplished and its back to the drawing board.

So, to answer your question, the time reversal pissed me off.

YES! EXACTLY! The writing was amazing, and lived up to the "Everything you've wanted to see" hype. Lana proved her loyalty and I loved her once again. Now she's back to whiny and suspicious Lana. The heartache I felt for the death of Lana was profound. The feelings I felt at the death of JK were frustration at any satisfaction I'd had about the plotline and character development being scoffed and torn to shreds.

(But aside... JK's death-the moment when he looked into Clark and Martha's faces... incredible work. - unfortunately the fantastic performance didn't make up for how insulted and manipulated I fealt because of the fact that time reversal was just thrown in there as a plot device.)

thehenry89

01-30-2006, 06:53 PM

time reversal is so lame.

Timester

01-30-2006, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by Toppa
I just watched the 100th Episode over yesterday and I loved it. At first I was just as mad as anyone else and was ready to call up the lynch mob. But after you let yourself get over the shock, the episode isn't half bad. Actually, it's pretty good; one of the best. So give it another chance people. You'll learn to love it for what it was and not what you wanted it to be. :cool:

The difference is perhaps those that "hate" remember every single Smallville episode to the detail, make them frustrated to see the same old mistake yet again...

ckfan

01-30-2006, 07:01 PM

I haven't re-watched it yet. It was very painful to watch - not just if you're a Clana fan - but even if you are just a Clark fan. And I truly haven’t decided if I loved this episode or hated it.

I think the scene right after the reset showed what was so powerful about the episode and drove away a lot of fans. Clark gives Lana a huge hug, overjoyed to see her after that horrible bloody accident but knowing that this is probably his last real hug with her as his girlfriend. He even closes his eyes and sniffs her hair. He is about to lose her after just THAT SAME DAY having had her accept his marriage proposal, putting him on probably the biggest high of his life. How cruel is that? His heart is completely broken, shattered, and THEN, his father, who is his hero and guide in life, is taken on the SAME DAY too! If you care at all about the protagonist of a story, you just can’t abuse him like this without really abusing the viewers too.

However, I do think when I watch it again, I’ll appreciate the poignancy and beauty of the show and maybe not feel the pain so much.

Watching Smallville

01-30-2006, 07:24 PM

Rewatching, it can either grow on you, or rub salt in the wounds, so to speak. I've rewatched it -- and seeing Clark make those same mistakes over again for me is just painful. Seeing him stand like a statue at the victory party while Lana is yelling for help from the car -- just painful. He can beat bullet in Crises, but he can't make it to a car crash with Lana yelling out warnings? *sigh*

And Jonathan's death is definitely not something I want to see over and over again. It made me geniunely sad, and just frustrated at the show for treating it as an afterthought to another story line.

This episode is not going to grow on me. I'm gonna hang in there to see what TPTB do next. But my respect for SV has definitely taken a tumble.

Kal EL2380

01-30-2006, 08:43 PM

I myself was a little pissed about the time reversal plot line, but honestly it was a great episode. Clark has to grow up now. He has to become a man. After seeing how selfish Lana is, I honestly dont think she deserves to know. Let her suffer i say. When she finds out, and she will, she will have made herself look so bad to Clark that he wont want to be with her. She may even get with Lex because he "tells the truth". After seeing Lex for who he is and seeing Clark as the hero he is, she will want Clark back. By then its too late. Consequences are one of the central themes of the show. She not trusting Clark and giving up on him is what keeps him from her. This is why she will pine over him for the rest of her life. She deserves it.

Watching Smallville

01-30-2006, 08:52 PM

Originally posted by Kal EL2380
Consequences are one of the central themes of the show. She not trusting Clark and giving up on him is what keeps him from her. This is why she will pine over him for the rest of her life.
Well, you've succeeded in giving me something to hang onto in this episode. The lesson about trust and lack of trust (in Clark) and misplaced trust (in Lex) is done well in Reckoning. With so much else going on in the episode, I hadn't really noticed that aspect of the story.

Thanks, Kal EL2380 :cool: This is a message I can appreciate.

vyperman7

01-30-2006, 08:53 PM

The more times I watch this episode, the more I grow to dislike it. I have tried to give this episode the benefit of the doubt. I have watched it three times now. Each time I watch, it upsets me even more. The opening was far too rushed, and there was not enough put into it.

I wanted Clark to add to his statement about being from Krypton, that it was destroyed and responsible for the meteor shower. Then Lana could make the connection with what happened to her parents. I also wanted shared experiences about times Clark had saved her. The one that would have been the best was the tornado in Vortex because it was the first time that really made Lana question Clark, and both Vortex and Reckoning had Clark defying gravity, so it would have made for a cool comparison.

I wanted more out of Lex finding out about Clark. A comment about what he was feeling at least. All we got was a gasp.

Since Lex can't know about Clark, and the writers love Lana too much, the time travel had to happen. I have calmed down enough to accept that. But what bugs me, is that Clark kept the truth from Lana the second time around. Her being in danger from knowing the secret was always a factor, and he still told her the first time. So why not use the knowledge of when and where the accident is, to keep Lana alive, and still tell her the truth? At least that way, it would have made JK's death seem more meaningful, and not like it was for nothing.

Last but not least, Clark got off WAY TOO EASY with Martha. "There is no way that you could have chosen between them." While Clark did not know who would die in Lana's place, that is ultimately what he did. So you would think that Martha would be a little more distant and upset at the fact that her son was that careless.

This episode was the most dissapointing to me out of any of the episodes I have seen to date. I have been frustrated before like with Swann getting the key, and there have been episodes I disliked like Resurrection, Magnetic, Redux, etc.. But never have I been this freaking dissapointed and letdown. With how good S5 has been, especially with the storylines and continuity, I was expecting the writers to actually follow through, and not hit the reset button once again.

ImaVirus

01-30-2006, 09:09 PM

You know what I love is the drama people put into there hating a show. I mean the MOSS will grow and mould HAHAHAAA... DUH, mold is gross blah blah blah. What is with the words. Hate it. Be done with it. SO the one big build up show was a BIG HUGE let down. it happens more often than not. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE will watch the show until days end no matter who dies, and why clark flew in the FOS with Lana, not jump. :P hehehee.e.. I just think when you say something about a show, talk about the show and not how you would rather watch grass grow. Who cares if you would rather watch grass grow. Explain better why you think it SUCKED. Thats all I want. I want opinions, not candy coated crap.

When this series is over and you go back one day and watch it again on DVD, you might just enjoy it along with the rest of the season. It is nice to hear opinions, just be nicer to people and give better responses. Thats all I have to say. Can't we all just get a long?

BTW, I loved the episode the first time I watched it, and have loved it even more the 2 other times I have seen it.

Thanks for reading,
I really do care,
tn

Kal EL2380

01-30-2006, 09:12 PM

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Well, you've succeeded in giving me something to hang onto in this episode. The lesson about trust and lack of trust (in Clark) and misplaced trust (in Lex) is done well in Reckoning. With so much else going on in the episode, I hadn't really noticed that aspect of the story.

Thanks, Kal EL2380 :cool: This is a message I can appreciate.

Thanks :D

Toppa

01-30-2006, 10:11 PM

Originally posted by ImaVirus
You know what I love is the drama people put into there hating a show. I mean the MOSS will grow and mould HAHAHAAA... DUH, mold is gross blah blah blah. What is with the words. Hate it. Be done with it. SO the one big build up show was a BIG HUGE let down. it happens more often than not. Everyone and I mean EVERYONE will watch the show until days end no matter who dies, and why clark flew in the FOS with Lana, not jump. :P hehehee.e.. I just think when you say something about a show, talk about the show and not how you would rather watch grass grow. Who cares if you would rather watch grass grow. Explain better why you think it SUCKED. Thats all I want. I want opinions, not candy coated crap.

When this series is over and you go back one day and watch it again on DVD, you might just enjoy it along with the rest of the season. It is nice to hear opinions, just be nicer to people and give better responses. Thats all I have to say. Can't we all just get a long?

BTW, I loved the episode the first time I watched it, and have loved it even more the 2 other times I have seen it.

Thanks for reading,
I really do care,
tn

:cool:

snafu2dj

01-30-2006, 10:23 PM

The more I watch it, the less I like it.

Dannyblue1

01-31-2006, 05:25 AM

Originally posted by All about Clark
Ok, I'm a Clana fan, and I'm also a Superman fan.

It appeared to me, that if you were a Clana fan you did not like the ep and that if you were a Superman fan you did like it.

Actually, I'm not a Clana fan. I don't tend to have feelings for the relationship one way or the other. She can know the secret or not, I don't care. If Clark and Lana are together (and not angsting) I'm good. When they are apart (and not angsting) I'm also good. It is when they are angsting (whether together or apart), and taking up loads of screen time with the angst, that they really tend to annoy me.

What annoyed me about the episode weren't the specifics of the Clana itself, because I can take or leave Clana depending on how it is handled. For me, the flaws of the episode were in the way they chose to tell (or not tell) the story.

The time travel cop out was right up there with any movie/TV show in which something really spectacular happens, and then a character wakes up and says, "Oh, it was just a dream." Most people can't stand that, because it feels like such a manipulation on the part of the writers. And the time travel in this episode was kind of the same. All this spectacular stuff happened (Lana finding out the secret, Lex seeing Clark use his powers). But, because of the time travel, it might as well have been just a dream.

They get the audience excited by having Lex see Clark use his powers, having Lana learn the truth. But it was all a fake out. A cheap thrill (as I called it in another thread). It's like having someone very official-sounding call you on the phone to tell you you've won a million dollars. And, just as you're about to get really excited, they yell, "Psyche! I'm just some Joe Shmoe one of your friends got to mess with your head!"

No one likes having their chain yanked that way. And, for many, "Reckoning" was like having your chain yanked by professionals.

UpandAtom

02-24-2006, 11:31 PM

I don't think this episode would ever grow on me. I expected a lot more from the much-hyped 100th episode. I expected the death scene to have been a lot more emotional. Overall, I am very disappointed, and every time I watch this episode I will be reminded of that disappointment.

Watching Smallville

02-26-2006, 07:31 PM

I just watched it again yesterday, and there were even more things about it that I disliked. *sigh* I really wanted to like this episode. I think the main problem -- besides the time reversal thing, which is irreparable -- was that this episode could have easily been strung across three weeks. And it should have been. Such big events crammed into one episode was a big mistake. It left us with too many "Well what about...." questions and criticisms. For me, it's just painful to watch Reckoning. And the sad thing is, they could have dumped Tomb (which was unnecessary) and Fanatic (another forgettable episode) and devoted the appropriate amount of time to this story line. And everyone would have liked it better. Who knows, we may even have accepted the time revesal.

Summers

02-27-2006, 06:30 PM

The more I think about this episode the more I despise it. It was the crappiest 100th episode I seen. To me the best 100th episodes have been Angel's "Your Welcome" and Buffy's "The Gift". Those are by far the best 100th episodes I have ever seen. Both them had my favorite characters die(Cordy and Buffy), but it also acknowledged the journeys of the characters(all of them) involved in the past 99 episodes. They were monumental to the series itself, and affected the series after that. Those two episodes had a balance of everything from drama to comedy to action. They had everything. I know I'm biased when it comes to the Whedonverse, but those episodes were just far better episodes. "Reckoning" doesn't even compare.