Could Clark have saved his dad?

[Jaygog 2]

was I the only one who thought - why in the #$% isnt Clark speeding Jonathan to the hospital while he was having the heart attack? He goes back in time to save Lana, steps through all kinds of high voltage to save Lois, but when old pa gets a heart attack, "hey, I guess, I'll just sit here and watch him die?"

I seriously disliked losing John Schnieder, aka the best Jonathan Kent that will ever be put to screen, so the writers can create this "OMG Death in this EPisoDE!!" hype train for this show. I didnt need a major death in this series, its been keeping me watching up to now, and doing fine in the ratings.

Way to reward long time fans who have been with the show for 100 episodes guys - lets step Clark and Lana's relationship back to square negative 1, kill the awesomely acted Jonathan Kent, and oh yeah Clark still cant fly.

Worst episode of the season.

[FOG]

First of all his name is JOHN Schneider! Not to be mean or anything.

Someone had to die.

later,
FOG

[supergurl88]

yeah, thats true but thats how he dies....super speed or not clark couldn't save him.

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by Jaygog 2
was I the only one who thought - why in the #$% isnt Clark speeding Jonathan to the hospital while he was having the heart attack? He goes back in time to save Lana, steps through all kinds of high voltage to save Lois, but when old pa gets a heart attack, "hey, I guess, I'll just sit here and watch him die?"


just another reason why this show should have been longer. two many open plot holes resulted in cramming it into one ep.

[Mr._Action]

It's John, not Paul. And do you really think superspeeding with someone having a heartattack is a good idea?

[Coyote]

Also, Clark went to all that trouble to get Jor-El to kill Jonathan instead of Lana. If Jonathan was revived, then Jor-El (or fate or whatever) would probably have to kill Lana again. Then Clark would have to go back and get Jonathan killed again, and it would go on in an endless loop.....:lol:

[Ton-El]

Like Coyote said, it would become a loop. If he saved his Dad then maybe Chloe would have been next, then he saves her and his Mom is in trouble. He would spend his whole life running from person to person saving them. Someone had to go.

[Kal EL2380]

Originally posted by Ton-El
Like Coyote said, it would become a loop. If he saved his Dad then maybe Chloe would have been next, then he saves her and his Mom is in trouble. He would spend his whole life running from person to person saving them. Someone had to go.

There couldnt have been a loop. Jor-El said that there was only one crystal. This meens only one chance to fix it. Im not sure how the crystal wouldnt have been there if he went back, but it was thrown in there too keep a loop from happening.

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by FOG
First of all his name is JOHN Schneider! Not to be mean or anything.

Someone had to die.

later,
FOG

aw crap. Dont know why I called him that. *rips up honorary Smallville fan member card* - thanks for the correction.


Originally posted by supergurl88yeah, thats true but thats how he dies....super speed or not clark couldn't save him.


Well, I guess we'll never know now.



Originally posted by Mr_ActionIt's John, not Paul. And do you really think superspeeding with someone having a heartattack is a good idea?

Well he certainly had nothing to lose. what's the alternative. Die of a heart attack?

As far as the "Death Roulette" loop thing goes-- maybe he could have just kept saving his friends/family until a more acceptable loss came up. ie, Pete Ross :p - I kid, I kid.

If anything though, this makes Clark not doing anything to help his dad more messed up. As if he just accepted that his dad dying was a worthy trade off for Lana.

I've said this elsewhere, but I think if Jonathan Kent would have ran Lana over with the blue truck on accident after she stepped out of her SUV to talk to Lex, I would have jumped up and done a backflip.

[DARKRAGE]

no he couldnt save his dad as he has his head so far up Lana's ass lol

[Coyote]

You're right. Clark should have got his BDA butt moving to the hospital. Very few heart attacks are instantly fatal. Many people can be revived if medical care is prompt.

I too would have been gleeful at seeing Jonathan turn Lana into a hood ornament.

[tejdog1]

That would have had me laughing for hours. I would've thrown parties for the next month and a half if Johnathan ran the stupid little girl over.

[kal3l]

Is it just me or has Clark been saving people "who were supposed to Die" since the 1930's, so how come what he did is selfish and wrong now?

[hahnyc87]

listen... clark KNEW it was over... he knew right away jorel made his decision and nothing he did would turn it around...

[Rimshot]

We did miss out on Clark being desparate and angry when his dad dies. There were screens released of a scene where Clark takes his dad's body to the Fortress. Presumably to plead with Jor-El.

Something had to be cut and they must have figured there was enough emotion in the scene between Martha and Clark.

I thought the way Jonathan died on the farm with his wife and son was a good way to go for the character. The scene gave you the feeling that Clark was powerless (just like the rest of us) when it comes to death. It may have been slightly out of character to not see Clark doing something but I think it was worth the sacrafice.

[RedTornado1974]

I thought Clark should've super-sped him to the hospital, too.....but on later reflection, it appears Clark surrendered to the inevitability of Jor-El's edict that someone close to him must die. He may have figured that to fight it again, as he did with Lana, could lead to something even worse.

[ramjeetp]

Jaygog 2

Could Clark have saved his dad?

was I the only one who thought - why in the #$% isnt Clark speeding Jonathan to the hospital while he was having the heart attack? He goes back in time to save Lana, steps through all kinds of high voltage to save Lois, but when old pa gets a heart attack, "hey, I guess, I'll just sit here and watch him die?"

I seriously disliked losing Paul Schnieder, aka the best Jonathan Kent that will ever be put to screen, so the writers can create this "OMG Death in this EPisoDE!!" hype train for this show. I didnt need a major death in this series, its been keeping me watching up to now, and doing fine in the ratings.

What are you on about Jaygog 2?

I take it you never watched the Superman films where Jonathan Kent does pass away? This episode may have been rushed but it was still brilliantly filmed! We all know who Clark Kent is destined to be with in a relationship. He was with her in the films and there was a TV show about them with Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher in "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman."

I don't think the writers and producers care about your opinion and if you stop watching, it is your loss. Overall what I have read, fans past and present loved the 100th episode!!!

Clark didn't really go back in time, he was given a second chance for some reason by Jor-El. With Jonathan Kent not in the show now, I think we will see Clark really grow into his character.

Laterzzz

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by kal3l
Is it just me or has Clark been saving people "who were supposed to Die" since the 1930's, so how come what he did is selfish and wrong now?

Well, let's look at it this way --

* kicks at equine carcass *

Clark 'knew' if he saved Lana, he was going to 'lose' another loved one...
He's already indirectly to blame (for disobeying Jor-El) for a death in the first place (nature's "balance")...
He makes a CONSCIOUS CHOICE to save Lana; this makes him DIRECTLY responsible for the 'next' death ...
Clark's choices have CONSISTENTLY focused on saving Lana w/o regard for others...
Example: During the tornadoes -- one of the few 'natural' disasters Clark has dealt w/ (w/ NO FOTW involvement), what does he do? Goes to Lana's rescue (again, sigh) - Was NOBODY else at risk? I realize Clark CAN'T save everybody, & even HE needs to know this, but why he never looks at the 'big picture' & ALWAYS at Lana...
He IS shortsighted (maybe this will change him).

* crosses fingers *

Well I guess we're back to ineffective storytelling here... cue the "Loop"... :rolleyes:

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by kal3l
Is it just me or has Clark been saving people "who were supposed to Die" since the 1930's, so how come what he did is selfish and wrong now?

Because he didnt even try to save his dad. His acceptance of his dad's death was unacceptable. (Yeah, I know about the FoS extra scene we didnt see, but come on, an ER might've been able to do some good for Pa)


Originally posted by hahnyc87
listen... clark KNEW it was over... he knew right away jorel made his decision and nothing he did would turn it around...

He didnt and the FoS scene would prove that. I guess I'll have to accept that the scene was made and Clark was pissed about the situation. The more I think about this, "Jor-El" should be to blame for these deaths, he shoudlnt have taken Clark's powers away to begin with. That's what started this craziness, and all because what, Clark was late coming back to the Fortress? Clark would have come back. He went there willingly to begin with to learn more about himself. It's to bad Brainiac didnt kill this heartless Jor-El AI.


Originally posted by Red Tornado 1974
He may have figured that to fight it again, as he did with Lana, could lead to something even worse.

You may be right. But, I think its more honorable to know that Clark fought crazy "Bizarro - Jor El" on this.


Originally posted by ramjeetp

What are you on about Jaygog 2?

I take it you never watched the Superman films where Jonathan Kent does pass away? This episode may have been rushed but it was still brilliantly filmed! We all know who Clark Kent is destined to be with in a relationship. He was with her in the films and there was a TV show about them with Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher in "Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman."

I don't think the writers and producers care about your opinion and if you stop watching, it is your loss. Overall what I have read, fans past and present loved the 100th episode!!!

Clark didn't really go back in time, he was given a second chance for some reason by Jor-El. With Jonathan Kent not in the show now, I think we will see Clark really grow into his character.

Once again the Superman films and other references in TV or elsewhere are NOT a roadmap to how Smallville is or should be planned out. The writers have said this and it is obvious that they have tried to live up to that. In the Superman films Clark puts the Great Wall of China back together with his eyes.his eyes. I dont consider that film a worthy reference at all. And Lois and Clark was horrible and unwatchable imo, so that really doesnt count.

And I think the writers and producers should care what long time fans think. The long time fans are what kept this boat afloat before they had their 300% or whatever increase in ratings. The longtime fans told their friends and their friends friends about this really cool show about Superman when he was younger. I've invested a lot of time and money ( via the DVD's) into this show and I just want to see it done right. I argue and type all this crap out because I do care.

One thing I will say about this episode, even though I didnt like how it was written, is that the actors all did a stupendous job. Everybody. From Tom, Michael, Kirsten, Annette,Allison. Everybody. They played their roles exceptionally well, and it was the one thing that did impress me with this episode.

[ramjeetp]

"Once again the Superman films and other references in TV or elsewhere are NOT a roadmap to how Smallville is or should be planned out. The writers have said this and it is obvious that they have tried to live up to that. In the Superman films Clark puts the Great Wall of China back together with his eyes.his eyes. I dont consider that film a worthy reference at all. And Lois and Clark was horrible and unwatchable imo, so that really doesnt count.

And I think the writers and producers should care what long time fans think. The long time fans are what kept this boat afloat before they had their 300% or whatever increase in ratings. The longtime fans told their friends and their friends friends about this really cool show about Superman when he was younger. I've invested a lot of time and money ( via the DVD's) into this show and I just want to see it done right. I argue and type all this crap out because I do care.

One thing I will say about this episode, even though I didnt like how it was written, is that the actors all did a stupendous job. Everybody. From Tom, Michael, Kirsten, Annette,Allison. Everybody. They played their roles exceptionally well, and it was the one thing that did impress me with this episode."

Hey Jaygog 2

You are entitled to your opinion but the writers of Smallville had to link this show with the films. I think it is amazing that this show has lasted 100 episodes and even though some of the episodes have been cheesy, Season 5 has been great so far!!!

I do apologise if I sounded to speak down to you but I just got upset you would think that episode 100 was the worst of the season? It is obvious it could have been improved and that is why we have forums to discuss such things.

Well I do agree with you about the actors doing a "stupendous job." The younger actors such as Tom, Kristen and Allison have really grown into their roles and made it theirs!

Laterzzz

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by ramjeetp
Season 5 has been great so far!!!


Only if we can forget about "Thirst" (another Lana-centric episode) & the 'epitome' of cheesy... OK, sorry. Back to topic now... :rolleyes:

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
Only if we can forget about "Thirst" (another Lana-centric episode) & the 'epitome' of cheesy... OK, sorry. Back to topic now... :rolleyes:

my mind is still boggled with "crouching lana, hidden lunacy". :eek:

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by BoSoxJim
my mind is still boggled with "crouching lana, hidden lunacy". :eek:

Just hit yourself in the head REAL hard... your eyes might roll back straight... :lol:

[spidymich]

Whatever happened to using Clark's blood to resurrect the dead? I know that Jk had to die, but im just surprised that TPTB just let that go so easily. It may not have been the greatest idea, but its something that could have been perfected. I suppose it will be just another thing that will be swept under the rug.

[ramjeetp]

"Only if we can forget about "Thirst" (another Lana-centric episode) & the 'epitome' of cheesy... OK, sorry. Back to topic now..."

Well I was hoping you wouldn't mention that episode hehehe. I guess we have to accept some of the cheesy episodes. Even though the acting was great in episode 9 Lexmas, I wasn't too happy with that episode. Maybe cos it was Lex married to Lana. I am glad though that this season is not dragging on the same storyline like Season 4 with the 3 stones.

I recently joined this forum and can't believe my eyes with so many Smallville fans!!! All the people I know in my area are into other (boring) shows such as Lost, One Tree Hill and The O.C. Sorry if I have offended anyone who do watch those shows...

Laterzzz

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by spidymich
I suppose it will be just another thing that will be swept under the rug.
Well, there's certainly a lot of plot holes already under there :eek: I'm not sure there's much room for many more... :p

[BoSoxJim]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
Well, there's certainly a lot of plot holes already under there :eek: I'm not sure there's much room for many more... :p

famous last words.....:lol:

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by ramjeetp

Hey Jaygog 2

You are entitled to your opinion but the writers of Smallville had to link this show with the films. I think it is amazing that this show has lasted 100 episodes and even though some of the episodes have been cheesy, Season 5 has been great so far!!!


They honestly didnt have to link this show to the movies. And I feel sorry for them if they have that little respect for the material to where they thought they had to. This show was supposed to be its own entity standing on its own two feet.They don't need the broken crutch of the movie to lean on.

And yeah, I'm really impressed with most of Season 5 so far. That's why it pains me to see episode 100 go down like that. But, I'll reserve the harshest of my judgement to see how they work with what they have for the rest of the season based off what happened.

[Kal-El-Krypton]

Originally posted by Jaygog 2
Because he didnt even try to save his dad. His acceptance of his dad's death was unacceptable. (Yeah, I know about the FoS extra scene we didnt see, but come on, an ER might've been able to do some good for Pa)



He didnt and the FoS scene would prove that. I guess I'll have to accept that the scene was made and Clark was pissed about the situation. The more I think about this, "Jor-El" should be to blame for these deaths, he shoudlnt have taken Clark's powers away to begin with. That's what started this craziness, and all because what, Clark was late coming back to the Fortress? Clark would have come back. He went there willingly to begin with to learn more about himself. It's to bad Brainiac didnt kill this heartless Jor-El AI.





I have to disagree about this part. Clark wasn't embracing his destiny and ignoring learning all he needs to know to protect the Earth just so he can check up on Lana. Clark was being irresponsible and to make him learn a lesson, he stripped him of his powers. As for him going there the first time, he did not go there willingly to learn about himself. He was thrust into the artic due to uniting the crystals. Upon being in the artic, he discovered the FoS and listened to Jor-El when he told him he had a lot to teach Clark.

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by Kal-El-Krypton
I have to disagree about this part. Clark wasn't embracing his destiny and ignoring learning all he needs to know to protect the Earth just so he can check up on Lana. Clark was being irresponsible and to make him learn a lesson, he stripped him of his powers.

Exactly. Hence why I call it 'Bizarro- Jor-El'. Protecting Lana, his parents, and possibly the entire state and country from evil Kryptonians bent on finding Kal-El is not wrong or irresponsible. If it is then this Jor-El = Bizarro Jor -El. Or just broken AI. Especially since in the long term of things these two would have brought back Zod, destroyed the FoS and bent earth and Clark to their will. Was that Jor-El's Master Plan? I hope not?



Originally posted by Kal-El-Krypton
As for him going there the first time, he did not go there willingly to learn about himself. He was thrust into the artic due to uniting the crystals. Upon being in the artic, he discovered the FoS and listened to Jor-El when he told him he had a lot to teach Clark.

So why did he install the crystals into the cave? He really did want to learn more about himself, and his past . He would have come back. Heck, he came back to the caves over and over and over again over the course of Season 2 and 3 in search of answers to his past. He would have done the same to the FoS.

[No-El]

With all his abilities and powers there was nothing Clark could do for JK!

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by No-El
With all his abilities and powers there was nothing Clark could do for JK!

Like I said, we'll never know because he didnt even try. (and if he did, it was..."deleted") - somebody said it in another of the billion threads here, but an ER can work wonders for heart attack victims.

[UpandAtom]

The doctor in "Resurrection" said that the next time Jonathan had a heart attack it would be fatal so there was nothing the doctors or anyone else could do.

[Jaygog 2]

Originally posted by UpandAtom
The doctor in "Resurrection" said that the next time Jonathan had a heart attack it would be fatal so there was nothing the doctors or anyone else could do.

Yeah, my uncle irl has cancer and the doctors told him he had less than a year to live. 3 years later he's still going on strong. Doctors arent always right, and I'm still dissappointed that Clark didnt try to rush Pa somewhere for help....but I do understand the time constraints in this episode...so I'll let it slide...

[UpandAtom]

Jonathan hasn't actually been taking care of his heart like the doctors told him to. He eats T-bone steaks, got struck by electricity, went through a meteor shower, a coma, and the stress of the election.

[OutlawAngel]

Originally posted by UpandAtom
Jonathan hasn't actually been taking care of his heart like the doctors told him to. He eats T-bone steaks, got struck by electricity, went through a meteor shower, a coma, and the stress of the election.

:rotfl: I shouldnt be laughing at this but thorugh most episode's from the first heart atack and all the way thorugh the rest of the episode he's been in I have always gotten the chance to say 'That can't be good for his heart' I mean for cripes sake's most people don't live through what he has with a good strong heart. :lol:

[UpandAtom]

It's kind of weird how Jonathan was able to survive through lightning, a meteor shower, and a coma, but died from a piece of paper.

[OutlawAngel]

Ok so he has survived an atack by Jor El in a cave that happend to leave him brain dead. Lionel in Clark's body tossed him across the kitchen and into soem cabinets. A kryptonite super strength dog atack, being shot, being knocked down a stairway by Chloe/Dawn, a house falling on him after being hit by meteor's, being tossed acorss the hospital by Kryptonians, Being roughed up by them FoTW's who took him Martha and Lana hostage, The atack of the Lexfans, and most importantly all of them pork chops and cookie's ans sweets that were not on his diet. But he dies because Lionel showed him a piece of paper?

:lol: it is so wrong that I am laughing over this.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by UpandAtom
It's kind of weird how Jonathan was able to survive through lightning, a meteor shower, and a coma, but died from a piece of paper.

Never thought of it that way! However, he did give LL a pretty nasty uppercut (can't remember if it was right or left. Maybe I'll find out tonight).

[OutlawAngel]

man oh man I think this episode might be harder to watch the 2nd time than it was the 1st time. I think I will end up crying more this time.

[God-Man]

I just finished seeing "Reckoning" a second time, and I think that the way Jonathan Kent went out was great. He died protecting his family. It was perfect.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by God-Man
I just finished seeing "Reckoning" a second time, and I think that the way Jonathan Kent went out was great. He died protecting his family. It was perfect.

It was a good way to die! Totally in character for this Jonathan Kent. Still miss him, though.

[OutlawAngel]

yeah I was crying the moment Jonathan stepped in that blasted barn, and then to sum it all up durring the funeral my step sister came in and was like 'dude what is wrong with you' and all I could do was point to the blasted tv and she still was lost until she recognised what I was watching and once I told her who had died I actually got a laugh because she said 'Dude they killed off Bo Duke? Those ::insert 2nd word of MB here::'

[watcher4]

Whether you think the episode is good or bad, it is still really emotionally charged!

[Bugbait]

Just watched Reckoning again last night and plot holes aside (yes, they should've made it a double episode story line) I think the way Jonathan Kent died was fitting. Superman/Clark's character is defined by the way he was raised. We've seen that Clark would sacrifice himself for someone he cared for without hesitation, his destiny be damned. He gets this from his father so it's very fitting. Jonathan would sacrifice himself for his son at the drop of a hat, we've seen many examples of this throughout the series. After seeing Clark's heartbreak over the death of Lana, I'm sure he would've given his own life to save Lana, that's just the way the character is portrayed and partly why he's so well liked.

Lana haters aside I think the departure of Jonathan Kent was consistent with the Smallville story line thus far. If I wanted Smallville to follow the story of the DC Comics I'd simply read the comics instead. Remember the deal Joanthan made with Jor-El? He knew his time was limited from that point and accepted it. It's part all part of the lesson that actions have consequences that will eventually shape Clark into the Superman we know.