Kryptonians Are Not Gods!!!

[Rey-El]

I want to talk about something that is really pissing me and a friend of mine off royally. It has to do with the ridiculous Technology/Magic (which is what it really is on this show MAGIC) That happens almost every other episode. I am willing to dispend my belief because it IS based on a Comic book and science fiction in general. BUT there is a limit to how much lame stuff you can shove down my throat before I vomit.

IF KRYPTONIANS COULD REVERSE TIME, RAISE THE DEAD, ETC. THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GONE EXTINCT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

Everyone likes to bring up the holy grail of the "S" mythos and say "Well, they did it in the movies..." Well ya know what? Superman also teleported, used his lips to erase memories, and pulled a expandable bubble wrap net off his chest too...doesnt make it right!

I am a huge Superman fan but I try to not be a fanboy about it. Just because it is based on a comic book doesnt mean you have to become absurd with your plots to make entertaining stories. CASE IN POINT: WTF does Kryptonians symbols and alien technology have to do with French witches and Magic? Where do those two things meet? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other! I think I have been pretty forgiving with smallville up to this point, but right now I feel like they're completely slapping me in the face. I have devoted 5 yrs to this show and I'd like it if the writers and producers pulled their heads outta their a$$es and devoted longer than 10 mins to writing these scripts. Televison is supposed to be exciting because you dont know what is going to happen next...Smallville has become idiotically prediactable. Ummm...lets see....Danger comes, Lana gets in the middle of it, Just before clark arrives she gets knocked out, wakes up after the danger is gone and completely acts like a nit-wit. I feel like I've seen all these episodes at least 20 times already. And the fact that they just took back the one thing everyone has been waiting 5 yrs to get out the way is just sad.

Forgive me, I'm getting a bit off topic. Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Thanks for you time.

"They can be a great people, Kal-El. They only lack the light to show them the way."

[Guidron]

It's funny.. I was thinking something very similar just before I read your post.

If Kryptonians have the ability to go back in time.... why wouldn't they have used it to flee Krypton before it blew into smitherines?

[claymore18]

No kidding, this show just got dumb as hell with this last episode.

[All about Clark]

I guessed it would be about a crystal, but I didn't think the crystal would take him back in time, I thought it would just resurrect Lana. So basically, it was lame and unrealistic and your right, if they had that technology, they wouldn't have needed to send Clark away because Krypton would still be there. BUNK.

[Rey-El]

Im glad Im not the only one who sees the corner they are painiting themselves into with this constantly exagerrated and fantastical view of Krypton and its technological abilities.

[KRAM-el]

They didn't just paint themselves into a corner, they dug themselves into a hole so deep they're almost in China (cue: Lana-Fu)!!!! Comics aside, there have been some pretty idiotic plotlines about, & they seem to often lead to a "dead" end. Same here. I hate to say it, but they've graduated from making CK look like a BDA to a complete & utter MORON! "we are not Gods" implies that THEY CANNOT CHANGE TIME!!!!!! Get this through your heads, wrters... BE CONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HalJordan4184]

Yeah, we aren't gods. Right.

Jor-El: What's that Clark, you made a mistake, that will ultimately lead to you not being able to become Superman, okay. Well, let's just send you back in time, so you can fix it. Then it'll all be okay. But remember, i can only do this this one time, and all other times it would have made sense to mention this, i didn't, because it didn't fit with the script. Oh, and someone has to die, because i brought you back from the dead. Don't bother asking how, i mean, it's not like i've been dead for years. I was only blown to kingdom come when out homeworld exploded. But that's neither here nor there. Just think of it like star wars. The universe struck me down, so i just became God. But, we aren't gods.... aw crap, now look what you made me do.

Clark: I'm confused, can i go see Lana now.

Jor-El: Where did we go wrong son? I try to be a good dad. I try to push you into ruling the world, because for some reason my character fluctuates week to week. I just want you to be happy, but only so far as it's exactly what i want.

Clark: Well, can I go to Lana's house?

[crzyeyez1345]

u know what tha,t means that kryptonians are religious in their own way. like people believe that Jesus was given powers to heal the dead, and rise himself, these have have both happened in the show,so what can their God do?

u know what tha,t means that kryptonians are religious in their own way. like people believe that Jesus was given powers to heal the dead, and rise himself, these have have both happened in the show,so what can their God do?

[muffinpeddler]

I agree 100%. Jor-El would have used the damn crystal at the end of Arrival or Hidden. And I think he's just too ridiculously powerful for a dead guy! In fact, he's not even Jor-El, it's his memory and essence an interactive program!

[Griffin]

All kryptonians were genetically linked to Krypton. Which is why they couldn't leave the planet. Something to do with the eradicator device detonating in the past if I remember right.

Jor-El takes Kal-El (in his birthing matrix) and gets rid of that defect allowing Kal-El to leave the planet. Of course this was the storyline before "Birthright".

But yeah I agree with you, the French Witches, and Magic is so far off the mythos path it's insane.

I also am annoyed at how the show handles Jor-El. Jor-El is dead, when Clark hears him speak it's a program/hologram of his father. Like in the movies. Yet the way Smaville makes it out, you'd think Jor-El's "spirit" is in the Fortress.

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Actually, the explanation that "Nature demands a balance" just demonstrates that as Kyptonians experimented with time-travel and things like "raising the dead", they discovered that such things really don't work out as intended because some force which they could NOT control (perhaps God) wanted to restore "the balance".
Also, the time reversal was limited to one day, perhaps only for one person. This is still, in essence, "Magic" as a story-telling device but it does respect the boundaries of such a device.

What bothers me is the inconsistency of the two magical events being discussed.

In "Hidden", Jor-El initiated the restoration of Clark's life (basically altering history in the same way as time-travel) resulted in the warning that "Nature must restore the balance" some time, several weeks in the future, taking the life of someone close to CLARK, the dead guy.

In "Reckoning", Clark initiated an alteration of history. This time it again resulted in a warning that "Nature must restore the balance" but that "balancing" happened IMMEDIATELY and REPEATEDLY and resulted in taking the life of someone close to Clark, the INITIATOR of the history-changing.

The only way to reconcile these events is to say that Jor-El (sorta) LIED in the first case, where he said the history-changing would take the life of someone close to CLARK. If in that first case the truth was that the history-chaning would take the life of someone clsoe to the INITIATOR of the action, that meant that Jor-EL loved LANA (who was the original victim and who looked a lot like "Joe" Jor-El's old squeeze, Lana's great Aunt Louise).

Then, when Clark changed history, the first person to be killed by the "balancing" was Lois. When Clark changed history again by saving Lois, the next in line was Jon Kent.

Now maybe Jor-El didn't know the details of who would die but there is something sort of creepy and wrong about Jor-El telling Clark all of the weight of the events of "Hidden" come down on him alone.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by Eh,Man?You-El?
the truth was that the history-chaning would take the life of someone clsoe to the INITIATOR of the action, that meant that Jor-EL loved LANA (who was the original victim and who looked a lot like "Joe" Jor-El's old squeeze, Lana's great Aunt Louise).



Thank you Eh,man?You-El? for finally pointing out the parallels between Clark/Lana & Joe/Louise as it pertains to this storyline... Jor-El couldn't alter history then, but he accepts the fate of it all & goes forward (something whiny Clark just cannot bring himself to do) even though he apparently loved Louise as much as Clark swoons over Lana. And what does it accomplish? He becomes MB of Krypton (albeit it all falls apart, but let's not get off-topic here). Clark uses Jor-El too much as a crutch & now I'd be curious to see if the writers REALLY "stick to their guns" & don't pull out another "magic crystal" when things get tough for Clark. Jor-El has to, for the sake of the series from here on out, give Clark the knowledge he has been holding back & bravely bow out of the picture. Otherwise "Spineless" Clark may as well morph into a Jellyfish & sink to the bottom of the Ocean.

[Ares]

Yes I agree , An I need to talk more cuz Im really really tired of looking at " New in Town " bah to that.. I just like to read more gosh..

[Lara Lane]

Originally posted by muffinpeddler
I agree 100%. Jor-El would have used the damn crystal at the end of Arrival or Hidden. And I think he's just too ridiculously powerful for a dead guy! In fact, he's not even Jor-El, it's his memory and essence an interactive program!

I totally agree. I mean, the great Jor-El is dead, for starters, then, Kryptonians are supposed to be a "wise" race, right? Can you imagine someone wise reversing time to accomplish his kid's wish? Do you imagine someone wise playing with time-space cont1nuum in such a dangerous way just to bring back to life a simple human girl?

Imagine the cosmical consequences!

[superman05]

maybe the crystal only allows them to go back in time like a couple of hours

[krpto]

maybe the krptonains were very prideful and wouldn't lisen the jor-el about krypton's distruction and he was afraid to break a law forbidding anyone from messing with the time crystal because he would be sent to the phatom zone a place worse the death. since jor-el is now dead he can go against the kryptonian law without fearing the phantom zone or other punishment.

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by superman05
maybe the crystal only allows them to go back in time like a couple of hours

Are you the writer's Perry Mason??? It's STILL bad writing w/ a plethora of plot holes. When I think of Al/Miles, I envision the gopher from "Caddyshack"... :lol:

[HalJordan4184]

I find it funny clark jor-el can bring back clarkback from the dead, though he is a superior being, with a much more complex physiology. But when a human dies, watch out, that's just way too complex fer them ther criptondians.

What the heck, why not just let everyone die, and just keep brining them back to life. Oh wait, if this one of those plot holes people keep talking about? Hello? HELLO?

Darn hole, where the heck did this come from. Can anyone tell me which way is out of this place.

HELLO?

[Kryppy]

Jor-el can do a lot considering he's DEAD.

Jor-el can do a lot considering he's DEAD.

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Originally posted by Ares
Yes I agree , An I need to talk more cuz Im really really tired of looking at " New in Town " bah to that.. I just like to read more gosh..
Not to encourage "Trolling", but I imagine (especially after the BFD EPISODE ONE-HUNDRED) you could scan down the list of threads and find 17 places where you could add a quick "I agree" or "Amen" note to break out of "New in town" doldrums and into the spendiflourousworld of "Kryptonsite Regular"
:D

[I_am_LEX]

I agree that going back in time and things like that are wierd & this whole Lana/Clark thing is getting old or is old. I was thinking that maybe Jor-El was the one who figured out the time travel stuff and chose not to use it because then his son wouldnt be created... or maybe kryptonians wouldnt use it and thats why rebels like Zod were considered rebels cause they tried to use things they shouldnt. Just cause you have the ability to do something doesnt mean you have to do it or will choose to... Sure maybe Krypton could have been saved, but at what cost?? Perhaps Jor-El or Kryptonians ins general werent keen on taking that chance, and the majority believed that it was their destiny to be destroyed, and by the way, most the people of Krypton didnt believe that their planet was going to be destroyed, so why would they have used it? anyways, like i said in a thread i made, you cant please everyone, maybe we should stop having expectations for this show and just watch it and see what happens even if things right now are predictable, maybe its gonna change a little now, because Clark is gonna change, so is Lex and Lana... who knows what will happen, but if you dont like it, dont watch... and if u do keep watching, stop complaining over what you prly couldnt do any better especially week after week... they dont write just one episode, they have to write 22 per season basically, its not as easy as it sounds, cuz if it were everyone would do because it pays well...

I agree that going back in time and things like that are wierd & this whole Lana/Clark thing is getting old or is old. I was thinking that maybe Jor-El was the one who figured out the time travel stuff and chose not to use it because then his son wouldnt be created... or maybe kryptonians wouldnt use it and thats why rebels like Zod were considered rebels cause they tried to use things they shouldnt. Just cause you have the ability to do something doesnt mean you have to do it or will choose to... Sure maybe Krypton could have been saved, but at what cost?? Perhaps Jor-El or Kryptonians ins general werent keen on taking that chance, and the majority believed that it was their destiny to be destroyed, and by the way, most the people of Krypton didnt believe that their planet was going to be destroyed, so why would they have used it? anyways, like i said in a thread i made, you cant please everyone, maybe we should stop having expectations for this show and just watch it and see what happens even if things right now are predictable, maybe its gonna change a little now, because Clark is gonna change, so is Lex and Lana... who knows what will happen, but if you dont like it, dont watch... and if u do keep watching, stop complaining over what you prly couldnt do any better especially week after week... they dont write just one episode, they have to write 22 per season basically, its not as easy as it sounds, cuz if it were everyone would do because it pays well...

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by I_am_LEX
, its not as easy as it sounds, cuz if it were everyone would do because it pays well...

No, it's NOT easy (as a writer, I should know)... but there IS a huge difference between "good" writing & "bad" writing. There is a LOT of good writing out there, & this certainly ain't it. Most of it isn't even "writing" at all -- it's just "borrowing" from comic-strip canon or previously-done movies & episodics. This is called "PLAGIARISM". Originality is called "WRITING". Now, back to my sedatives (gulp). :p

[jimmyolsenblues]

EXTINCT IN THE FIRST PLACE good point, Jor-El can juggle with one hand , blindfolded , and travel through time and space , but Krypton is the size of ball bearings.

[WangTang]

"we are not gods" lets see what Jor-el can do [or has done].

1. can Take away clarks powers.
2.Has a time altering crystal
3.take "Life forces" from people to bring clark back.
4.resurrect dead poeple and give them super powers.
5.Give anyone Kryptonian powers [Jonathan]
6.inhabit bodies of earthlings [Lional].
7.can take Clark into another dimension for "training".
8.can create energy tentacles to attack or grab people from the K caves.
9.Can predict "universal events".
10. Can teleport people from the K caves to the fortress.

Jor-el sounds like a "god" to me lol.

[God-Man]

"You are forbidden to interfere with the course of human history" Jor-El said this in the first Superman movie. Funny how in "Smallville" Jor-El advocated the exact same thing. This is especially ironic considering how "Smallville" has mirrored the movie conitnuity this season.

[MBCorp]

Wow, with all of the things that I disliked about this episode I hadn't even taken into account the bad writing concerning Jor-El's amazing and almost godlike powers in this episode. You guys are right, that was really some bad writing all around by the writers.

[muffinpeddler]

The writers should stop playing whiffleball with that empty water cooler, and get to some REAL work!

[Rey-El]

Its like everytime they have a problem they just sweep it under the rug and say Oh its okay no need to have our characters talk like adults and figure out there problems like normal human beings...we have Jor-El and Krypton! He can handle this one for us! So who wants to skip WORK and put our thumbs up our asses?

No need for us to come up with clever or dramatically engrossing plots that further develope our characters in a logical way because we have krypton and a half nekkid lois to cover our suck@$$ writing each week!

Yay Us...

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by I_am_LEX
they dont write just one episode, they have to write 22 per season basically, its not as easy as it sounds, cuz if it were everyone would do because it pays well...
This is true, but writers are people, too. And sometimes they fall in love with their own ideas and can't see beyond them. They do good work, they do not so good work. I'd argue that if they're getting paid very well, the work should be better. I'm reading a lot in this thread that I hadn't thought of, and that should have come out in a writers room. The point about Jor-El and Louise, and Jor-El being the initiator of the imblalance really has me thinking. Nice discussion!

[freddielm]

Some people take the plot lines WAY too seriously.

[cakreel]

Like it wasn't from a comic book/movie?

lol

[vikingjedi]

Originally posted by Guidron
It's funny.. I was thinking something very similar just before I read your post.

If Kryptonians have the ability to go back in time.... why wouldn't they have used it to flee Krypton before it blew into smitherines?

Because everybody died besides Clark. There was nobody left to go back in time. They were full of themselves and didn't listen to Jor-El's warnings.

[HalJordan4184]

unless you went the movie route which smallville has seemed to be doing, where Jor-El warns everyone days before hand, and then just sets about building Kal-El's ship after being banned from causing public outcry by releasing his findings. And then when the planet does start to go, it takes time. Far longer than it would for someone to rush in, touch a crystal, and then go, hey, he's right.

THere are just too many plot holes because of this.

[norman619]

Originally posted by KRAM-el
They didn't just paint themselves into a corner, they dug themselves into a hole so deep they're almost in China (cue: Lana-Fu)!!!! Comics aside, there have been some pretty idiotic plotlines about, & they seem to often lead to a "dead" end. Same here. I hate to say it, but they've graduated from making CK look like a BDA to a complete & utter MORON! "we are not Gods" implies that THEY CANNOT CHANGE TIME!!!!!! Get this through your heads, wrters... BE CONSISTENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummm... no.... his "We are not gods" comment was to Clark's request to bring Lana back from the dead. It was pretty obvious in his lecture to Clark. LOL. What he seemed to say was he is no master of anyone's fate. He only seemed to know the future and gave Clark a fair warning. He basicly said some things can not be changed no matter how powerful you are (fate). The ability to time travel does not mean you will be able to change any event you like. And yeah the Kryptonians should have been able to hit the rewind button and get the hell out of Dodge. That is a huge mind fart on the part of the "writers." They have been having many of those these past few seasons.

Btw, what's a BDA?


Originally posted by KRAM-el
No, it's NOT easy (as a writer, I should know)... but there IS a huge difference between "good" writing & "bad" writing. There is a LOT of good writing out there, & this certainly ain't it. Most of it isn't even "writing" at all -- it's just "borrowing" from comic-strip canon or previously-done movies & episodics. This is called "PLAGIARISM". Originality is called "WRITING". Now, back to my sedatives (gulp). :p

I agree there are plenty of people that know how to write episodes that mesh well with each other. Smallville episodes are soo disjointed. Take for example an old show called Babylon 5. Very few throw away eps. Continuity was there. Very few, if any, plot holes. When you thought you found one they revealed in a later episode why it was possible. It made sense. The creator of the show had the entire story, all 5 or so seasons, planned out before they started the first season. I wish Smallville was like that. Where each episode was written with past episodes in mind and there was someone with half a brain reading these scripts that understood the concept of story flow and continuity. Wrting for TV does not have to mean bad rushed writing. The producers of Smallville are just lazy and don't demand much from their writing staff.

[Jellie]

bda= big dumb alien

[KRAM-el]

Originally posted by norman619
Wrting for TV does not have to mean bad rushed writing. The producers of Smallville are just lazy and don't demand much from their writing staff.

Amen to that. One of the "biggest" writing problems here is there seems to be no "team" activity on the part of the writing staff. Very few consecutive eps are written by the same writers (or at least it's credited that way)... It's almost as if they have pairs of (or single) writers doing "cold scripts" & they just pull one out of a hat. Disjointed, to say the very least. :rolleyes:

[PETER WEST]

Originally posted by norman619

Btw, what's a BDA?





Big Dumb Alien = teenager Clark Kent (The TPTB's verson from "SMALLVILLE")

[ron75upc]

Originally posted by Guidron
It's funny.. I was thinking something very similar just before I read your post.

If Kryptonians have the ability to go back in time.... why wouldn't they have used it to flee Krypton before it blew into smitherines?

They could not use the technology because there was no one around in that time to use it. They were blown into smitherines!!!!:D

[Rey-El]

Originally posted by ron75upc
They could not use the technology because there was no one around in that time to use it. They were blown into smitherines!!!!:D

Based on the movie and other versions of the destruction of Krypton. The planet didn't just explode instantly they may not have had considerable amount of time to build a luxury escape ship for an entire race...but they sure as hell had 30 seconds to plug in a damn crystal and rewind time!

The Writers need to stop giving Jor-El Phenomenal Cosmic powers as if he were some sort of Otherworldly supernatural deity. He's a freaking semi-Sentinent computer program! Thats it! He's supposed to be offering sage like wisdom and unconditional love....not bending the space time Continuu.m because his son had a BAD DAY!

[ron75upc]

Originally posted by Rey-El
Based on the movie and other versions of the destruction of Krypton. The planet didn't just explode instantly they may not have had considerable amount of time to build a luxury escape ship for an entire race...but they sure as hell had 30 seconds to plug in a damn crystal and rewind time!

The Writers need to stop giving Jor-El Phenomenal Cosmic powers as if he were some sort of Otherworldly supernatural deity. He's a freaking semi-Sentinent computer program! Thats it! He's supposed to be offering sage like wisdom and unconditional love....not bending the space time Continuu.m because his son had a BAD DAY!

I do agree, but even in the novels and comics the kryptonian computers do strange things to bring Clark to life, or use clones, or robots. Just like in the "DEATH AND LIFE OF SUPERMAN" the eradicator removed Clark from the tomb and moved him the fortress to bring him back to life. So it is not just smallville that uses these type of powers.

[Mon-Ell]

Originally posted by freddielm
Some people take the plot lines WAY too seriously.

I don't see myself as taking the plotlines too seriously but I've seen a lot of good shows that had potential like Smallville get bogged down by crappy writing and lazy staff..ST: Enterprise comes to mind, I just don't want Smallville to go that route any farther then it has up till now.

My two cents.
Tony

[Joebuck]

it doesn't matter, fate can not be broken. because someone was going to die in clarks life. so if the Kryptonians has time travel, it wouldn't have changed time. some scientists have said this. if you go back in time you may not change anything. this is true of smallville.

What really upset me more was the fact that the kents are sitting around farm with no money and all this time clark just needed a peace of cole to make dimonds.

[Hendo]

if they had that technology it wouldn't have mattered. Jor-El KNEW the planet was about to explode. Everyone thought he was a raving lunatic and then it was over in no time. It's not like they were on a planet that was crumbling to pieces for weeks where everyone could see it was happening. If he went back they would have thought he was just as nuts as he was before he went back. It's a thing cakked arrogance and when a civilization is clost to if not the most advanced in the entire universe of course they're going to think that they're untouchable.

[opera_ghost]

plus, there is a deleted scene from the original movie that explains what actually happened.. and why the kryptonians did die out.

They died due to their own Arrogance.

Maybe as a society they did experiment with all this stuff and truly believed that they were invulnerable because of it.

"I tell you Kryton is just shifting it's orbit."

Well, the disbelief that the planetary orbit was about to deteriorate.. and eventually crash into their red sun... and their refusal to believe that it was happening.. is what killed them.

It wasn't that they couldn't have stopped it.. if they seen the signs.. or realized that they needed to get out. It was that they felt that nothing could put them in danger.

I may be reading a lot into that "We are not Gods Kal-El" stetement.. but that's the way I interpretted it.

[Praxis]

I FULLY agree. They treat Kryptonian technology as magic. They can resurrect the dead, but only by exchanging the life of another (sounds like some type of magic, exchanging souls, etc). They can reverse time, teleport people wherever they want, etc. They're basicly all powerful.

[Welling_is_pretty]

what I thought was funny was how Jor-El contridicted himself with the subject line quote. "we are not gods"?! I guess he doesn't remeber the message he wrote in the ship. "You will be a god among men, my son."
Jor-El needs to make up his mind! LOL

[vikingjedi]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
unless you went the movie route which smallville has seemed to be doing, where Jor-El warns everyone days before hand, and then just sets about building Kal-El's ship after being banned from causing public outcry by releasing his findings. And then when the planet does start to go, it takes time. Far longer than it would for someone to rush in, touch a crystal, and then go, hey, he's right.

THere are just too many plot holes because of this.

Even if somebody did go back in time who is going to listen to them? They completely ignored Jor-El when he told them what was going to happen. They would have never allowed that person t get the information out.

[boli06]

"You will be a god among men, my son." means that he will be better than men, and might rule them, not actually a god.

Plus,
What would have changed if they used the crystal, Krypton would still be destroyed. The crystal doesn't save people, or save planets, it just goes back in time

[No-El]

Originally posted by Rey-El
Forgive me, I'm getting a bit off topic. Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Thanks for you time.

"They can be a great people, Kal-El. They only lack the light to show them the way."


That is for sure, they are not gods (same for Al/Miles and Co.)!!

[Welling_is_pretty]

Originally posted by boli06
[B]"You will be a god among men, my son." means that he will be better than men, and might rule them, not actually a god.
yeah, um, I was being, you know, facetious.

[HalJordan4184]

ron75upc, even in the comics though, that wasn't some far fetched, mind bending, lets alter reality and space time thing. The expanation is Clark gets his powers from the sun. Sunlight keeps his body going. So, the Eradicator, not in an effort to keep him alive, but actually in an effort to power himself, as he can't directly process sunlight, stole Clark's body and put it in a giant, conductor of sorts. He pumped concentrated solar energy in, and took the bio feedback from the aura around superman, and used that to power himself. This did have the unintended effect though, of jump starting Clark's body. Though he had been dead for a long while, being as super as he was, decay had not set in. The longer a body is viable the better chance you have under the right circumstances to bring it back. Clark's just happens to be viable for a good long time, and the right conditions were met.

[norman619]

Kryptonians are only "superfolks" when under the influence of a yellow sun. I'm guessing any other time they are like you and I just know alot more about stuff. The whole decaying orbit things is silly. I think they'd notice something like that. It's kinda hard to miss.

[krpto]

they where a prideful society and reused to believe jor-el's warnings about krypton's eventual destruction.

[kal-odell]

Great topic....

This has been irking me for some time. Jor-El is dead, the only thing that survived is a computer program in which he created in order to help his son cope w/ the situation he put him in.

I f'ing hate it when Jor-El strips Clark's powers, or possesses Lionel, or kidnapps blonde girls, or reveals his son future plans to a scientist, or anything else he does in real time. It's ridiculous. Now, I have no problem with a "Professor Hawkins type" Jor-El. But to have Jor-El reacting to things in real time, and not in past tense makes him alive. And thats were they have gone wrong.

If Clark needs help with his science, he should be able to acsess Jor-El's programs and get what he needs to learn. It's like a mainframe. If he needs information on the geology of Krypton or any other planet, he should go to Jor-El's program. Hence the word program.

It is ironic to me that Jor-El makes the comment, "we are not gods". Yet, was it not Jor-El's message in the orignal ship that Clark on the third planet from the star sol, would be a god amongst men. Did the writers just forget about that message?

Really if they want us to take the new quote literally then I suggest stop having the god like situations. You have the erza small phropicies. Hundreds of miraculous ressurections kryptonian or human. Dr. Swann acting as Smallville's very own John the Baptist. Plenty of human divine healings and power grantings. Or how about the fact that Clark talks to Jor-El like Jesus and God spoke. Clark is not supposed to be able to have Jor-El talking to him when he is at his barn or anywhere else. If Jor-El can simply interact w/ Clark one on one, then whats the point of the FOS.

They started out on the right path, Clark finding messages to him from his parents, and guess what they were all in past tense. It all went bad as soon as Jor-El started talking to Clark. Heck the caves, the whole crystal storyline, any of this would make sense if it were put into past tense form. If it were all in the form of messages in order to lead Clark to the FOS nothing would be wrong here. The point of the FOS is for Clark to be able to actually see and speak with Jor-EL's program. But since you already have Jor-El speaking with Clark, theres no reason for the FOS.

My point I guess is this, Jor-El should only be able to teach his son knowledge, that it's. No person to person talking, no power granting or stripping, no saving lives or taking them, etc.etc.etc. He is meerly a program for learning.

He is not alive and should not speak in any form of present tense.

[No-El]

Originally posted by kal-odell
Great topic....

This has been irking me for some time. Jor-El is dead, the only thing that survived is a computer program in which he created in order to help his son cope w/ the situation he put him in.

I f'ing hate it when Jor-El strips Clark's powers, or possesses Lionel, or kidnapps blonde girls, or reveals his son future plans to a scientist, or anything else he does in real time. It's ridiculous. Now, I have no problem with a "Professor Hawkins type" Jor-El. But to have Jor-El reacting to things in real time, and not in past tense makes him alive. And thats were they have gone wrong.

If Clark needs help with his science, he should be able to acsess Jor-El's programs and get what he needs to learn. It's like a mainframe. If he needs information on the geology of Krypton or any other planet, he should go to Jor-El's program. Hence the word program.

It is ironic to me that Jor-El makes the comment, "we are not gods". Yet, was it not Jor-El's message in the orignal ship that Clark on the third planet from the star sol, would be a god amongst men. Did the writers just forget about that message?

Really if they want us to take the new quote literally then I suggest stop having the god like situations. You have the erza small phropicies. Hundreds of miraculous ressurections kryptonian or human. Dr. Swann acting as Smallville's very own John the Baptist. Plenty of human divine healings and power grantings. Or how about the fact that Clark talks to Jor-El like Jesus and God spoke. Clark is not supposed to be able to have Jor-El talking to him when he is at his barn or anywhere else. If Jor-El can simply interact w/ Clark one on one, then whats the point of the FOS.

They started out on the right path, Clark finding messages to him from his parents, and guess what they were all in past tense. It all went bad as soon as Jor-El started talking to Clark. Heck the caves, the whole crystal storyline, any of this would make sense if it were put into past tense form. If it were all in the form of messages in order to lead Clark to the FOS nothing would be wrong here. The point of the FOS is for Clark to be able to actually see and speak with Jor-EL's program. But since you already have Jor-El speaking with Clark, theres no reason for the FOS.

My point I guess is this, Jor-El should only be able to teach his son knowledge, that it's. No person to person talking, no power granting or stripping, no saving lives or taking them, etc.etc.etc. He is meerly a program for learning.

He is not alive and should not speak in any form of present tense.


To your point....Jor-El's original intent was and IS still to teach his son the knowledge of the Universe and Kryptonian History.

But, it was Clark's/Kal-El's preoccupation with humans that precipitated Jor-El's "god like" actions to secure his son's mission!

[norman619]

Originally posted by krpto
they where a prideful society and reused to believe jor-el's warnings about krypton's eventual destruction.

Warnings? Like they'd need him to tell them the planet is heading towards their sun.... You have any idea of the kind of havok that would cause with the planetary cycles? It's kinda like saying we wouldn't notice the sudden darkness associated with a solar eclipse. That we'd need someone to tell us something isn't quite normal.... They have to come up with something better than that. I don't care how arrogant a race is the planet moving closer to it's sun is hard to miss. Another case of bad science and bad writing. But then we are talking about a comicbook.

[cakreel]

Originally posted by I_am_LEX I agree that going back in time and things like that are wierd & this whole Lana/Clark thing is getting old or is old.

Please let this be the end of this torturous pairing. How about some good old-fashioned storylines w/o all the shipping?



and if u do keep watching, stop complaining over what you prly couldnt do any better especially week after week... they dont write just one episode, they have to write 22 per season basically, its not as easy as it sounds, cuz if it were everyone would do because it pays well...


Here here!

[jazzylg]

Remember, the writers use the Superman Mythos as a template, that they continue to edit. They are not bound,verbatem by the comic history to the letter Ex: Lois, the early years, Perry White in smallville, etc. . They have creative license to do whatever works. This Jor-el simulation is unlike anything anyone might be accustomed to on earth. How can we assume that their computers have earthly limitations in regards to Pentium numbers , gigs of memory, or ram. Remember data from Star Trek, the next generation? A 23rd century android made by an Earth scientist, who could simulate human conditions and reactions. There is no way any of us could gauge the limitations of a Kryptonian artificial intelligence, or begin to put in perspective the amount of advancment their programs simulate interactions. Jor-el was Krypton's most brilliant scientist (according to the mythos), and was capable of quite a bit.

[WangTang]

Originally posted by jazzylg
Remember, the writers use the Superman Mythos as a template, that they continue to edit. They are not bound,verbatem by the comic history to the letter Ex: Lois, the early years, Perry White in smallville, etc. . They have creative license to do whatever works. This Jor-el simulation is unlike anything anyone might be accustomed to on earth. How can we assume that their computers have earthly limitations in regards to Pentium numbers , gigs of memory, or ram. Remember data from Star Trek, the next generation? A 23rd century android made by an Earth scientist, who could simulate human conditions and reactions. There is no way any of us could gauge the limitations of a Kryptonian artificial intelligence, or begin to put in perspective the amount of advancment their programs simulate interactions. Jor-el was Krypton's most brilliant scientist (according to the mythos), and was capable of quite a bit.

"We are not gods" right form Jor-el "Mouth". So one must asusme their technology is not god-like as Jor-el could not save himself or his wife. But, then why does he have a time reverseing crystal in the fortress?He contridicts his very own statments buy doing "God" like things in the very next scene.

[norman619]

Originally posted by WangTang
"We are not gods" right form Jor-el "Mouth". So one must asusme their technology is not god-like as Jor-el could not save himself or his wife. But, then why does he have a time reverseing crystal in the fortress?He contridicts his very own statments buy doing "God" like things in the very next scene.

LOL!!! He does things that to a primitive race (Humans) seem godlike but please don't mistake this for signs of him/them being gods. We would appear as gods to cavemen with our medical and wep technology. He is being honest. They are not gods just a race with a better understanding of the universe with cooler toys than we have. I don't see how you guys keep thinking his actions contradict his not being a god.

[WangTang]

Originally posted by norman619
LOL!!! He does things that to a primitive race (Humans) seem godlike but please don't mistake this for signs of him/them being gods. We would appear as gods to cavemen with our medical and wep technology. He is being honest. They are not gods just a race with a better understanding of the universe with cooler toys than we have. I don't see how you guys keep thinking his actions contradict his not being a god.

well does Jor-el not call us "Mortals". Heck an entire episode was called "Mortal" after Jor-el "Took" Clarks powers. But here the real question why can't Braniac [Kryptons main computer]. Why can't he do such magical things. He is basiclly all Kryptons Knowlege and technology. He was much smarter then Jor-el ever was. All Fine could do was mimic basic powers of sun abosrbed Kryptonians. He could not steal Clarks powers, or do the other godly things Jor-el does. He couldn't even beat Clark.

[Rey-El]

Originally posted by norman619
LOL!!! He does things that to a primitive race (Humans) seem godlike but please don't mistake this for signs of him/them being gods. We would appear as gods to cavemen with our medical and wep technology. He is being honest. They are not gods just a race with a better understanding of the universe with cooler toys than we have. I don't see how you guys keep thinking his actions contradict his not being a god.


I dont care who you are or how smart you are. Manipulation of Space and Time is a God-like ability. One which shouldn't be taken lightly, especially to make your son feel better.

Clark Kent was raised as a human being despite his Kryptonian heritage. He needs to find human solutions to normal human problems or tragedies. How else is he going to learn how to become a man or in this case a Superman if his Fairy Godfather keeps hitting the rewind button? Sometimes bad things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. Case in point: Krypton! However those life lessons mean nothing if space daddy can just magically fix them!

Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

[jazzylg]

Refer to my last post.

[WangTang]

Originally posted by jazzylg
Refer to my last post.

once again "we are not gods" implys their technology must have earthly limits. Brainiac/Fine couldn't do to do half the things Jor-el could do.

[HalJordan4184]

Wow, if warping space time, completely changing a beings DNA with a flash of light, and all of that isn't godlike ot a Kryptonian, I'd hate to think what is.

Technology is one thing. But technology, has to have an explanation. and the only explanation we can come up with, is magic. Kryptonian magic is what's doing this. That, and the fact all of the acts, of magic, are being performed by a dead guy. I don't know if you get more godly than a dead man manipulating space time, to fix mistakes he never could have known his son would make.

[norman619]

Originally posted by Rey-El
I dont care who you are or how smart you are. Manipulation of Space and Time is a God-like ability. One which shouldn't be taken lightly, especially to make your son feel better.

Clark Kent was raised as a human being despite his Kryptonian heritage. He needs to find human solutions to normal human problems or tragedies. How else is he going to learn how to become a man or in this case a Superman if his Fairy Godfather keeps hitting the rewind button? Sometimes bad things happen and there's nothing you can do about it. Case in point: Krypton! However those life lessons mean nothing if space daddy can just magically fix them!

Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

There is no such thing as God-like abilities. There are technbologies that allow you to do things we mistakenly thought were beyond our ability to do. It's small thininking to refer to anything we can't do as being "godlike." This is why Jorel told Clark he'd be a God among men here on earth. We haven't matured past such concepts. Our own sciences are getting to the point where we will be doing things you call godlike. Creating life and matter, timetravel, correcting our own DNA basicly recreating ourselfves, and who knows what else. Will this make us gods? Or even demigods? Nope.

Clark didn't get anything from his timetravel stunt. He still lost one of the 2 people that were the closest to him on the planet. His problem is his attachment to his nonexistant humanity. He's not human. He will never be human no matter how much he wants to be. He will not have to deal with most of the regular stuff a human has to deal with. He is an alien not a god. How do you equate him with Hilton? She gets everything she wants. Clark does not. Even in this past episode he didn't get what he wanted. I'm pretty sure he'd want the man he has called father to be alive with him. Jorel was teaching him the sad fact that people he cares for will die and he has no power to change that.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by Rey-El
Clark Kent is becoming the interstellar equivalent of Paris Hilton. Everything he wants with no work.

Agreed!:lol:

[norman619]

Originally posted by WangTang
well does Jor-el not call us "Mortals". Heck an entire episode was called "Mortal" after Jor-el "Took" Clarks powers. But here the real question why can't Braniac [Kryptons main computer]. Why can't he do such magical things. He is basiclly all Kryptons Knowlege and technology. He was much smarter then Jor-el ever was. All Fine could do was mimic basic powers of sun abosrbed Kryptonians. He could not steal Clarks powers, or do the other godly things Jor-el does. He couldn't even beat Clark.

Yeah and your point?
Think in terms of locations. Here on Earth or in our solar system Kryptonians are pretty much immortals. They don't get sick, don't age, and are impervious to physical harm most of the time. Away from here they are not as durable. Mortal means subject to death and a few other things. So we sure as hell are mortal since we die very easily. So yeah Jorel was correct.
As for Brainiac, chalk that one up to bad writing. Clark should have never won that battle. It was sorta like pitting an 18 - 19 year old up against a UFC champion or a seasoned Ninja. If the battle bewteen Clark and Brainiac took place in real life Clark would NOT have won plain and simple. He won pretty much because if he lost there would be no more show. Unless they'd continue the show with the misadventures of Zod and his sidekick Brainiac. :-)


Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Wow, if warping space time, completely changing a beings DNA with a flash of light, and all of that isn't godlike ot a Kryptonian, I'd hate to think what is.

Technology is one thing. But technology, has to have an explanation. and the only explanation we can come up with, is magic. Kryptonian magic is what's doing this. That, and the fact all of the acts, of magic, are being performed by a dead guy. I don't know if you get more godly than a dead man manipulating space time, to fix mistakes he never could have known his son would make.

Everything in the multiverse has an explinattion. Everything obeys whatever physical laws there are that govern our physical reality. Just because we don't currently understand those doesn't make them anything more or less than what they are. And that is natural phnomena or "man made" phenomena. Magic only exists in the minds of those that lack the ability to look for the real reasons for abilities/events they witness.
The Jorel we see on the show is not the Jorel that died on Krypton nor is it his ghost. It's a highly advanced AI with full access to Kyptonian technology. It's programmed to act like the original Jorel.
How did it fix anything for Clark? It resusitated him and gave him the option of going back in time to fix something he thought he could fix. The show has shown the AI to be forward thinking. Do you actually think it would do anything to potentially kill Clark? No way. It only did what it did to allow clark a taste of "normalcy." To see how the other half lives. To further illustrate how different he is from humans. :-) We do not know to what extent it changed Clark. His "death" may have been a simulated death for all we know. If you listened to Jorel's lecture to Clark in this past ep he warned him. He knew more than he told Clark. It was all part of the lesson. Jorel allowed it only because he knew it would really change nothing.

[Rey-El]

Sometimes people are so in love with things that they fail to see the flaws.

Example.

Jor-El's entire personality is wrong. In past episodes he's not only subjected clark to child abuse (Searing his chest with a laser!) kidnapped a human girl and played with her DNA but threatened to kill Johnathan Kent if CK didnt obey. Does that sound like a benelovent all loving father? You'd think someone as "Advanced" as him Artificial Intelligence or not would have found a more subtle way of explaining things to his one and only son.

And you know what...Jor-El shouldn't be warning Clark Kent about anything! That right there is another supernatual ability, Precognition!

"Precognition a form of extra-sensory perception which allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge)."

I dont know about the rest of you but in my book the only person who should know when a person is going to die should be GOD. How the heck does a automated machine do that? Kal-El listen to me carefully for I know tomorrows Lotto numbers! He's not supposed to know anything like that. The most he should be able to do is explain to clark that people you love are going to die in time and you NEVER know how long you have with them so cherish every moment. Not only that but indirectly Phantom Jor-El is responsible for that Fake Kryptonian Kara killing that FBI officer so yeah he is capable of murder or at least being an accomplice to it.

ALSO...Clark doesnt need to learn anymore lessons about losing people. He's already lost, Ryan, Pete, that indian girl he was crushing on, that teleportation girl. Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss! Year ended for Lesson. Time to Learn something new. Like not being a cry baby when bad things happen. Shut up, Step up, and be a Superman.

They should have NEVER did this whole time rewind concept. Its just one more opportunity for Character development wasted. Because when normal people lose loved ones to accidents they can't just go back in time and stop it from happening! Thats something he wanted and that he Got! So yeah...He's the Magical Paris Hilton. Who cares if he isn't banging Lana anymore, if 5 years of this show has taught us nothing its that she will pretty much forgive him by the time the next "Super Crisis" hits.

"Clark I've fallen down the well, please Save me! I'm so sorry I yelled at you for not being honest with me, take me in your arms and make the world better!" - Lana seasons 1-5

[norman619]

Jor-El's entire personality is wrong. In past episodes he's not only subjected clark to child abuse (Searing his chest with a laser!) kidnapped a human girl and played with her DNA but threatened to kill Johnathan Kent if CK didnt obey. Does that sound like a benelovent all loving father? You'd think someone as "Advanced" as him Artificial Intelligence or not would have found a more subtle way of explaining things to his one and only son.

Clark has already shown to be hard headed so more drastic measures are needed. It's called tough love. Plus the clock it ticking. It's almost time for him to be Superman and he hasn't learned much yet. I'm sure if Jorel found Clark at a younger age such heavy handedness wouldn't be needed. :-)


And you know what...Jor-El shouldn't be warning Clark Kent about anything! That right there is another supernatual ability, Precognition!

"Precognition a form of extra-sensory perception which allows a "percipient" to perceive information about future places or events before they happen (as opposed to merely predicting them based on deductive reasoning and current knowledge)."

I dont know about the rest of you but in my book the only person who should know when a person is going to die should be GOD. How the heck does a automated machine do that? Kal-El listen to me carefully for I know tomorrows Lotto numbers! He's not supposed to know anything like that. The most he should be able to do is explain to clark that people you love are going to die in time and you NEVER know how long you have with them so cherish every moment. Not only that but indirectly Phantom Jor-El is responsible for that Fake Kryptonian Kara killing that FBI officer so yeah he is capable of murder or at least being an accomplice to it.

There is no such thing as “supernatural.” Come on man. We use this label on things we don’t understand and can’t explain. There is serious research into the whole “ESP” thing with some interesting results if you actually bother to seek the truth and not assume everything you ever needed to know could be found in a bible and/or from some selfproclaimed holy person. Who said your god should be the only one able to know the future? You are talking from the view point of a very primitive being lacking in even the most basic understanding of life and the universe. We still understand so little we are in no position to say what is or isn’t possible with any kind of conviction. We are talking about an alien race with a far better grasp of how the universe works than we do. If you insist on basing what can and can’t be done on our own very primitive technology and limited understanding or the physical universe then you will always be closed to what is really possible. We can’t travel to other star systems in our lifetimes yet we know it’s possible. People used to think the human body couldn’t deal with the stresses of traveling faster then 20 mph. Now people travel at supersonic speeds w/o much apprehension. There are very few things that are truly impossible that we can say with any real certainty. Most things we can’t do now is only due to our lack of knowing how to do it. In time if it’s possible we will do it. People with your mindset felt what we can do now medically was the sole domain of God. How wrong were they? Very. If anything is the sole domain of a deity then we shouldn’t be able to do them now should we? The abilities of the Jorel AI to see events in the future are not that far fetched. Our own scientists suspect we can do something similar with the aide of a true Quantum computer. Current scientific theory does not say it's impossible but we lack the tools to test it. In time we will see.

ALSO...Clark doesnt need to learn anymore lessons about losing people. He's already lost, Ryan, Pete, that indian girl he was crushing on, that teleportation girl. Loss, Loss, Loss, Loss! Year ended for Lesson. Time to Learn something new. Like not being a cry baby when bad things happen. Shut up, Step up, and be a Superman.

Loosing a friend is one thing. Loosing a parent or sibling is quite another. But I do agree Clark’s been way too much of a wuss. Kinda reminds me of the mess they did with Darth Vader and Anikin. Another example of a crybaby that’s supposed to grow up to be a tough bad ass.

They should have NEVER did this whole time rewind concept. Its just one more opportunity for Character development wasted. Because when normal people lose loved ones to accidents they can't just go back in time and stop it from happening! Thats something he wanted and that he Got!

Again missing the point. He IS special. He isn’t Joe Normal or Joe Average. We (normal humans) can’t jump up to catch a missile, ride it into space, disarm it, and fall back to earth with no ill effects. He has access to toys we don’t on top of his natural abilities. And he didn’t get what he wanted. Someone died who was more important to him than Lana. Someone he had no way of saving.

I wonder if Jorel had the medical tech that could have saved pa Kent....

[Daphne]

Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.


Amen. It's been bugging me too.

[norman619]

Originally posted by Daphne
Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Amen. It's been bugging me too.

Agree 100% I was expecting way more than what we got in this ep. I have read much better storylines from some of the people here. It's sad and frustrating.

[kal-odell]

The way they write Jor-El, nullifies the entire reason for Jor-EL.
If Jor-El can hand out superpowers to anyone, then why did he need his son to come to a planet w/ a yellow sun. It most cases he did it because he knew that Clark had no protection. But on Smallville Jor-El is his personal bodyguard. He could have sent his son to a blue star's solar system, and then just given him the superpowers. The sun alone is supposed to be the reason for his powers, the fact that Jor-El can grant and remove them from any Kryptonian or human is a nod to god-like abilties.

How about Dr. Swann, in "Sacred" we find out that he understands Kal-El's entire destiny, and all though he doesn't tell Clark what it is he gives him back his key so that he can continue on with that destiny. How this is not considered God-like is beyond me. We actually have a dead Jor-El, working with a human in order to set up his son's life. There is no way that Jor-El could have known what Swann would do with that knowledge, he is supposed to be dead.

Like I said before at first, it was ok. We had past tense little message inside the ship. We had little past tense messages from the initial Swann interactions. But as soon as the voice started calling Clark it all spun way out of control. Before that we all assumed that any miracles were actually Kryptonian tech. coming from the original ship. Examples being the Kryptonite de-radiation of Lana's necklace, or the ship saving Clark and Martha, ship saving Clark and Lana in the tornado.

But all that thought of it being the technology doing the saving went away as soon as we realized that it wasn't the ship and Jor-El was still talking to him. When Clark blew up the ship, is the exact point were Jor-El became god. All the sudden Jor-El could not only talk to his son w/o the means of any kryptonian technology, he could also effect the phsyical or mental state of anyone in the universe.

It was at that exact point that the heart of the ship {which was the actual first message to Jor-El to Kal-El,} sease to exsist, and the god-like Jor-El came into exsistence. From that point on, the writers have found that they can simply make Jor-El capable of anything at least once.

To have Jor-El make this comment in "reckoning" is almost to me atleast, a slap in the face so to speak. Heck the way it's been going the last three seasons I have been waiting for Clark to carry that cross from the cornfield up down the streets of Smallville w/ a kryptonite thorn crown.

Why do they need to make this comment? Maybe they too, are starting to realize that they have allowed Jor-El's character to get way out of control. Hopefully they might start toning it down from this point on and actually let Clark ask some questions instead of have everything spoon fed from the hand of god.

[HalJordan4184]

Norman619, technology, whether we understand it or not, has an exlanation, a logical one at that. None of the things Jor-El does, have that explanation.

Jor-El on Smallville is a god. Plain and simple. Nothing can create matter, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can. We can't go back in time. Again, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can send us back in time, and with a piece of quartz no less. He doesn't need the more than infinite energy science says it would take to tear a hole the in space time *********, and accelerate a person beyond the speed of light. He's got a flashlight and a piece of quartz. If this isn't godlike to you, I'm just stupified. With suspension of disbelief, you have to make it plausible at best. And right now, any serious scientist on the face of the earth, would laugh at this show. It's not plausible in the least. I can by a highly advanced alien race having technology we don't. But i can't by a computer program, manipulating space time, and thrwoing around superpowers like they are candy at a fourth of july parade to be plausible enough to suspend my disblelief. And neither, apparently, can a lot of other people. This doesn't make us wrong.

Also, Clark is human. Being the proponent of science your posts make you seem to be, you'd understand there is more to psychological makeup than where you come from. Nurture plays a huge role. Clark's entire psychological development has been in human society, with human values, and human preferences. To say he has no humanity, and is in no way human, is just wrong. An entire point of the character of Superman, is the fact he's MORE human than the rest of us. His DNA just happens to be Kryptonian. But this alien, from another world, is the best representation of humanity this planet has.

[jazzylg]

I'm starting to see where a lot of you are coming from. Jor-el is seeming like God, and Clark like his only begotten son.It is ridiculous. The writers have created a quagmire of events that are more magical/mystical than scientifcally explainable. This show is starting to turn into pure fantasy. Remember in Reckoning , while clark was speaking to Jor-el in the fos, Jor-el mentioned that the universe will seek a balance, in regards to one life or another. Jor-el basically became death, as in Final Destination 1&2. Only in cheating death, one life was exchanged instead of paid by the life who cheated death. Like I said before, it seems like the writers are delving deep into fantasy, even bring back the pre-crisis(crisis series 1 1985) Superman ability to turn coal into diamond. John Byrne's Man-of Steel series(1986-1987) established a much more realistic/ scientific charactor, and a much more believable premise. What I've observed now is a combination of practical science to super sci-fi fantasy/impossibilty.
At least the premise of time travel could have been explained by localized temporal events, where clark couldn't interact with anyone but acted to change certain events. Even giving clark a warning about changing the course of human histroy(superman 1) would have been nice.

[norman619]

Originally posted by HalJordan4184
Norman619, technology, whether we understand it or not, has an exlanation, a logical one at that. None of the things Jor-El does, have that explanation.

Jor-El on Smallville is a god. Plain and simple. Nothing can create matter, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can. We can't go back in time. Again, it's a scientific impossibility. But Jor-El can send us back in time, and with a piece of quartz no less. He doesn't need the more than infinite energy science says it would take to tear a hole the in space time *********, and accelerate a person beyond the speed of light. He's got a flashlight and a piece of quartz. If this isn't godlike to you, I'm just stupified. With suspension of disbelief, you have to make it plausible at best. And right now, any serious scientist on the face of the earth, would laugh at this show. It's not plausible in the least. I can by a highly advanced alien race having technology we don't. But i can't by a computer program, manipulating space time, and thrwoing around superpowers like they are candy at a fourth of july parade to be plausible enough to suspend my disblelief. And neither, apparently, can a lot of other people. This doesn't make us wrong.

Also, Clark is human. Being the proponent of science your posts make you seem to be, you'd understand there is more to psychological makeup than where you come from. Nurture plays a huge role. Clark's entire psychological development has been in human society, with human values, and human preferences. To say he has no humanity, and is in no way human, is just wrong. An entire point of the character of Superman, is the fact he's MORE human than the rest of us. His DNA just happens to be Kryptonian. But this alien, from another world, is the best representation of humanity this planet has.

First time travel is NOT a "scientific impossibility." Read up on current theory. Even relativity allows for it. You are going on OLD information. Even the old speed of light barrier is in question and has been for a while now. take a look at this http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/generalscience/faster_than_c_000719.html Timetravel is possible but it requires way too much energy for us to attept on a macro level. At least the models some theoretical phys use hint at this for now. It sure as hell takes place at the quantum level. Matter can be turned to energy that part is easy. We have been looking for the answer to the hard part. Turning energy to matter ala the technology from Star Trash. We don't know how to do it yet but this does not mean it can't be done. If you really care take a look at the amazing work being done with String Theory. This new cosmological view allows for a lot of stuff that from our point of view would be magical. It contradicts the old view of the universe and seems to be the theory most theoretical physicists are going with today. Try to remember all we have are theories that for the most part are not testable in the real world. They only pass math tests. But as many theoretical phys will tell you we prob don't know what all the variable are to say with any certainty that the theories are correct. The average person mistakes the theories was have as laws written in stone. They are far from that. Our scientific knowledge is constantly being revised and updated. And no it's not god like. It's advanced civ like.

Clark is not human. Genetics is where I am coming from. He is and will always be an outsider. Just because he can identify with us does not make him Human. He is humanoid in both physical appearance and psych make up but face it he is different. HE doesn't suffer from the same frailties that make us human. Plain and simple. He is a christ figure.

[HalJordan4184]

Time travel, based on our CURRENT UNDERSTANDING of physics, is impossible to accomplish on a macro level. YOu said it yourself. Doesn't mean it can't be done, true. But right now, only theoretical physics says it has a remote chance of happening. And theoretical physics, is theoretical for a reason, there is no way to really prove it, and is just a way to explain quantum phenomana we can't account for at the moment.

Now, Clark may be an outsider due tohis genetic makeup. But that doesn't mean he doesn't identify with us, think and feel as one of us, or anything like that. You are confusing being genetically human with being emotionally, and psychologically human. He has all of frailties except for the physical. Jsut becasue he doesn't get hurt if i shoot him, doesn't make him an alienated outsider. Especially if he fits in, and is accepted in our culture more than a lot of genetically human people.

[norman619]

Most of our physics is theoretical. :-)

I guess on the psych level we differ. I do not feel he can really know what itis to be human and still be an immortal. He will never really take part in life with us humans. He will always be the outsider. The baby sitter. Always a bride's maid never a bride if you get my meaning. Ah I know! He's like the ref at a football game. Oh great now I'm down ot sports analogies....

[No-El]

Man i wanted to get a word in this issue but you guys can be overdo it!

Too, much metaphysics for the common man, even in Sci-Fi!!

[HalJordan4184]

True, most is, however, the entire seperate branch of theoretical physics, is solely made up of what ifs. The majority of physics, is observable effects, and experiments to show what we believe is true. String theory, and all of that, is nowhere near being proven, and nowhere near fact right now. Saying because of it something could possibly happen, does not make smallville's Jor-El less of a god like being at this point.

Also, you are going on the presumption that SUperman somehow places himself apart from us, and doesn't even really interact in this world. A very pre crisis, and even for that time, narrow minded view of the character. He enjoys life here, he embraces life here, and he isn't our babysitter in any way. He's a man. First and foremost. Your saying because of his DNA, he can't ever live a life here, without being some kind of freak outcast that can never understand how frail and meaningful life is. That's completely antithetical to the character.

[scifiguy]

I agree that the whole time travel thing is kind of weak, but what if "Jor-el" is nothing more than a super computer that is designed to react to situations as clark's mind encounters them. In this situation he may have been thingking about going back in time and it opened the program about time travel. And as far as why didn't the kryptonians travel back in time to stop the destruction of the planet, has the show actually given us a reason for "it's" Kryptons destruction. It may have been a force of nature that they couldn't prevent or it's possible that the event happened so quickly that they didn't have enough time to activate the crystal and kal-el's parents only had enough time to load and launch his ship.

[jazzylg]

Just to piggyback on the temporal physics theory. Jor-el, knowing that clark's molecular structure would handle the "trip" back in time, converting him to energy and reconverting him to matter back to the exact spot in space he originated with lana in the barn. Just like another poster stated before, if the living jor-el already had this technology, why didn't he use it to save krypton? Or even his entire family? VERY CONFUSING!

[scifiguy]

here's something that I hadn't thought, Jor-el tells clark that there is one trial that he hasn't been through yet, I can only assume it's the loss of a love one. So I think that this can also mean that johns death wasn't the pay back that clark had been warned about. Even if Clark hadn't have told lana about his secret, John would have still won the election and luthor Sr. would have still shown the picture to John and he would have still had the heart attact.

So Johnathan was going to die anyway. I still think that we have a future death to deal with.

ok, about the converting to energy thing. Let's assume that Jor-el knew that clark would survive it, it may be because of the fact that he has been exposed to the yellow sun. Krypton had a Red sun that made them all "normal" and they couldn't survive the process of time travel, because they weren't "Supermen and women" on krypton.

[Rey-El]

Originally posted by scifiguy
here's something that I hadn't thought, Jor-el tells clark that there is one trial that he hasn't been through yet, I can only assume it's the loss of a love one. So I think that this can also mean that johns death wasn't the pay back that clark had been warned about. Even if Clark hadn't have told lana about his secret, John would have still won the election and luthor Sr. would have still shown the picture to John and he would have still had the heart attact.

So Johnathan was going to die anyway. I still think that we have a future death to deal with.

ok, about the converting to energy thing. Let's assume that Jor-el knew that clark would survive it, it may be because of the fact that he has been exposed to the yellow sun. Krypton had a Red sun that made them all "normal" and they couldn't survive the process of time travel, because they weren't "Supermen and women" on krypton.

Thats exactly my point. Has it become so difficult for writers who pull down 6 figure salaries to create entertaining and realistic drama without the aid of showy alien magic every episode? Jor-El has become nothing more than a "Cool" slide of hand they use to mask poor writing.

Call me crazy but I would gladly sacrifice the FoS, and Jor-El's magic light shows for a good 40 mins of solid character developement and meaningful dialogue.

[No-El]

A highly advanced civilization thousands of years ahead of Humankind!

The Kryptonians!:D :cool:

[Lara Lane]

Sorry, little note here, have you noticed we can't write the word continuu.m with out getting a bunch of "********"? :p

[Yarr]

How can people get upset at Jor-el interacting with Real Time events when we had Kryptonian technology (Braniac, I assume SV's version of him was a Kryptonian version) doing the same thing with out anyone saying anything.

I agree his powers are god like and beyond over the top. However, it is possible that an artificial version of Jor-el's brain was created and imported into this computer\technology. Science today is even trying to do this. I could look up articals if anyone doubts me.

The fact is that it is possible Jor-El was able to "download" his brain into the computer on earth. Therefore creating a "Computer Version" of his mind. This isnt too far off, again id like to remind everyone that scientist are already trying to "download" human minds into computers. Although its on a much much much smaller scale.

So yeah I could totally believe that we have a "Clone" of Jor El living in this computer. What I wont believe is that Krypton had the ability to do anything more than that.

[kal3l]

They couldn't save krypton because none of them have these powers on that planet.

Jor-el says to Lara has they send Clark to earth that it's our single red sun that will give him his powers.

Kryptonians were an advanced race intelectually, but they did not possess any special physical abilities, so how could they save krypton?

Also 99.9% of the planet (going by the movies) didn't even belive it was in danger until that single second where they all blew up, they thought Jor-el was being an idiot. So even if they had some super idea, they would all be too late anyway.

Agreed with Lana being center of our universe tho, not everything has to revolve around her, maybe Clark could save some strangers from time to time, from regular hazards (fires, car crashes) not always super freaky encounters.

[UpandAtom]

Maybe time travel was used frequently on Krypton, but it got banned. They banned space travel because one of their moons exploded so maybe a similar incident happened with time travel.

As far as Jor-El being a god, I don't think that he is. I think that he just uses very advanced technology. Jor-El can't suddenly create life or planets at will. He isn't all powerful. Many of the stuff he does we can do on a smaller scale as well. Scientists are able to change the DNA of embryos. They're able to bring back people from the dead. Time travel isn't too farfetched because we can accomplish it in theory as well.

[brainiacowen]

I think the God like things Jor-El does is simply sience. Isn't the whole thing with him being in the FOS because he used an Artificial Intelligence with his memories and voice?

I really don't like the notion that Kryptonians are God like. They are not, this was part of their downfall. Most of them believed themselves to be because they were technologically advanced...this is a very human thing to think when your so "high and mighty" in the universe I'm sure, but I refuse to give them anywhere near that amount of credit.

[UpandAtom]

I agree. If Kryptonians were gods, they would've had the power to stop their planet from being destroyed.

[RedQ]

have Cured the Green Plauge?

And It will take a longer time for Clark to be come Superman. so Smallville will be longer.

[Ron Paul]

I want to talk about something that is really pissing me and a friend of mine off royally. It has to do with the ridiculous Technology/Magic (which is what it really is on this show MAGIC) That happens almost every other episode. I am willing to dispend my belief because it IS based on a Comic book and science fiction in general. BUT there is a limit to how much lame stuff you can shove down my throat before I vomit.

IF KRYPTONIANS COULD REVERSE TIME, RAISE THE DEAD, ETC. THEN THEY WOULDN'T HAVE GONE EXTINCT IN THE FIRST PLACE!!

Everyone likes to bring up the holy grail of the "S" mythos and say "Well, they did it in the movies..." Well ya know what? Superman also teleported, used his lips to erase memories, and pulled a expandable bubble wrap net off his chest too...doesnt make it right!

I am a huge Superman fan but I try to not be a fanboy about it. Just because it is based on a comic book doesnt mean you have to become absurd with your plots to make entertaining stories. CASE IN POINT: WTF does Kryptonians symbols and alien technology have to do with French witches and Magic? Where do those two things meet? They have absolutely nothing to do with each other! I think I have been pretty forgiving with smallville up to this point, but right now I feel like they're completely slapping me in the face. I have devoted 5 yrs to this show and I'd like it if the writers and producers pulled their heads outta their a$$es and devoted longer than 10 mins to writing these scripts. Televison is supposed to be exciting because you dont know what is going to happen next...Smallville has become idiotically prediactable. Ummm...lets see....Danger comes, Lana gets in the middle of it, Just before clark arrives she gets knocked out, wakes up after the danger is gone and completely acts like a nit-wit. I feel like I've seen all these episodes at least 20 times already. And the fact that they just took back the one thing everyone has been waiting 5 yrs to get out the way is just sad.

Forgive me, I'm getting a bit off topic. Bottom Line...Kryptonians are NOT deities. Their powers have limitations, they shouldn't be treated with respect and a way for character developement and emotional drama. NOT as convienient loops holes to writers block.

Thanks for you time.

"They can be a great people, Kal-El. They only lack the light to show them the way."

deus-ex-machina, my friend. Superman went from hokey scifi to hokey fantasy with this one.

[Simba_Muffy]

A.I. Jor-El had way too much power on this show. It was ridiculous. I mean, please. Why didn't they save their planet if nothing is off limits to them?

[BoyScout-ManOfTomorrow]

Reading this thread, how stupid Smallville got and then reading stuff about Reckoning being the 100th episode... That must be a paradox right?