As a Superman incarnation, is Smallville too conventional, or not conventional enough

[Clark Kent 86]

I realized something today I'm very conservative when it come to Smallville, in particular the interpretation of the Superman mythos. I tend to want everything to end up the same as in the comics. If Lana dies in the 100th ep. that will upset me because Lana is a character that has been around for what? 56 years! Why would they up and change history like that! I know for ratings and a good shocker. And whats with all these future heroes? Clark never meets any of these people until he becomes Superman, again ratings and a good show.

Anyway it's little things like that, when TPTB up and change Superman's history like that it dosen't sit well with me. But in time I grow to accept them. (Smallville is just one Superman medium)

So when it comes to the interpretation of the Superman mythos on Smallville are you:

Conservative (Don't like the changes but grow to accept them)
OR
Liberal (Love the changes and hope more are on the way)

[Magus]

ah. conservative and liberal in that fashion. you want to be careful about that. no politics allowed on ksite.

I don't hope more changes are on the way necessarily, but i don't mind them as long as they're incorporated well.

[LexLuthorMetropolis]

4) Since there are members on this board from a wide range of backgrounds, all posters must refrain from making comments that could ordinarily be construed as sexist, homophobic, ethnocentric, racist, or significantly demeaning any individual or group on the basis of disability, age, political inclinations or religion. What is construed as demeaning or hateful is up to the ultimate discretion of the moderators.

Political threads aren't allowed in here for a reason even if they aren't about causing trouble.

CLOSED.

[LexLuthorMetropolis]

Reopened the thread and retitled it, but if this thread goes political in any way shape of form. I will close it again.

[Ebert & Roeper]

I actually like the idea of slight reinterpretations. My knowledge of the Superman mythos, however, is limited to the movies, and K-Site. They do give me a fair idea, though, so I would say that by now I am pretty well versed in the history.

The things mentioned, like Lana dying, would bother me, yes - but it would be shocking indeed. The other heroes on the show is actually pretty cool, I think, since it puts Clark, the only hero I actually care about, in charge. He turns Bart and AC down the right path. It is cool to think that he not only became the 1st superhero, but also created the rest of them...

I am open to Lex knowing Clark's secret, and I think that has actually become canon in some interpretations. I like the idea too that I heard, where everyone knows Clark is Superman later on, but they are too polite/kind to say anything.

do I look forward to drastic changes? No. but I probably wouldn't complain if they made them, since I haven't thus far.

I guess that makes me more moderate, but I think slightly more accepting.

[HalJordan4184]

He treally didn't trun AC down the right path. More like AC got CLARK thinking about the right path.

And i don't like Clark "creating" the other heroes. Especially when he is a half developed pseudo hero, with no especially heroic qualities, that hates having powers, and constantly having to save people.

[SuperDub2]

personally i, while seeing the films, was never a staunch superman supporter. in particular i hated Lois and clark as i thought it too cheesy and ridiculous and ive never read comics so my liberal viewpoint will be affected by my history.

All that aside i do not feel that it should be shackled by the constraints of previous superman incarnations and if my limited superman knowledge is correct many of the other incarnations differed also

[Ebert & Roeper]

Yeah Superdub, it seems like there are so many various comics with various canons, that nothing is really "new" anymore. Still, I like surprises, but for me surprises include basically everything from the comics anyway. If you like surprises and HAVE read the comics, than I suspect you would be more liberal when it comes to Smallville's choices.

Hal, I think he told Bart to do good things, not bad, and he told AC that he could not become a criminal to be a hero. I thought that was his point - and you are right, AC did open Clark's eyes too.
And I think it is always so fun to see that Clark IS Superman, because he knows what is right, and he can dish it out, but he is still a kid, and he doesn't like the responsibility.

Yes, this doesn't make him much of a hero, but you can see the hero in him, especially when he helps others on their way. That is my take anyway. Maybe more liberal than moderate, actually...

[inperfectmemory]

I don't mind the changes made. I love the show, although sometimes I think things could have been done differently, but I'm always happy with every episode. But you're right, I don't think Lana should be killed, or any character that has been part of the Superman mythos from the beginning (or atleast the early days). That would be taking too far of a turn away from the story. This, of course, leaves very few people to die. And if it is as I suspect... it is, [to steal a quote from the show], "truly a sad day in Smallville" (-Lionel)

[Agent D]

I don't know what I am. What would you call someone that doesn't like the changes in the show? I'm a comic book purist. I watch the show mainly to find differences between the show and the comics. If I had to pick one of the choices, though, I'd pick conservative.

[~*Lois & Clark Fan*~]

I don't mind some changes, but to change what the character is all about and "marvelize" him is just too much. Superman is THE Superhero he set the path for other Superheros, he shouldn't be reduced to a sniveling whining complaining teenager.

[SteveS]

The statement made by the original poster had absolutely nothing to do with a political viewpoint, left/right, up/down, but merely dealt with an interpretation of the program that was based in traditon or one that was non-traditional.

Along those lines, I would be conservative/traditional when based upon TV and movies but liberal/ non-traditional in not being bound to comics 'canon' which might change from cartoonist to cartoonist or issue to issue.

[Zungas]

Change is always good....but keep Lana alive.

[SuperDub2]

Originally posted by SteveS
The statement made by the original poster had absolutely nothing to do with a political viewpoint, left/right, up/down, but merely dealt with an interpretation of the program that was based in traditon or one that was non-traditional.


I dont hink it was ment to be political, he just choes to farme it in that sense for a bit of fun and to make it easier for people to catagorise them selves

[Clark Kent 86]

Correct! My post has absolutely nothing to do with politics, I just used the words 'conservative' and 'liberal' in a different context.

In this new context Conservative means you are loyal to the Superman mythology, while liberal means you like all the new changes being made on Smallville. Maybe I should have made that more clear in my original post.

I for one absolutely love Smallville and will so to the grave! But lately I find myself disagreeing with the choices TPTB are making, for example: bringing in all these B-List superheros like Bart Allen/Flash, Aquaman, and now Cyborg? Wht the hell? Where are Batman, Wonder Woman, Wally West/Flash, or the Green Lanturn? I know being held captive by the WB Excutives, I guess no one wants to make a movie about Cyborg. Besides Smallville is a town in the middle of nowhere why would all these future heroes stop over in a little podunk town? Suddenly Smallville the the most hippest town in America.

But don't get me wrong, I loved Run, Aqua was okay, and we will have to wait and see about Cyborg. But there are some superheroes Superman isn't supposed to meet until later, lets hope that TPTB know where to draw the line.

This post is getting longer than I expected.

Getting rid of Pete Ross, another mistake, Pete, in the comics was Clark's best friend and was so until the day Clark left.

Clark wasn't supposed to meet Lois until he became a reporter! Having them meet in Smallville is something that doesn't sit right.

Time to wrap this up, so as I look back, some of my all time favorite shows were the ones that slightly changes the Superman mythos. So I guess that makes me a conservative yet slightly liberal Smallville fan.

(Lana dying is something I will never accept nor the idea of having Chloe become Lois Lane.)

[photogirl]

I don't mind all the changes of the superman mythology. I'm not really into that part of it, more like I like superman because of Smallville ( not that I hated him before or something). If tptb want to make a bunch of changes that's cool with me...

[Coyote]

Fine with me if they change as much as they want to.

[UpandAtom]

The thing with Smallville is that it doesn't stick to one interpretation of the character like the previous incarnations have. They have combined fro different ages, incorporated the real life history of the character, and added some of the creator's personal history as well.

I think that the changes is what keeps fans guessing. We don't know whether Jonathan is going to die or live to see Superman as an adult. So the changes have given some mystery to the show which is always a good thing.

[Gaara]

It depends what changes they are. Like I would never want Lois, Clark, or Lex to die. Period. But I think it would be interesting if they killed Lana off, I would add to the story and would bring depth to the other characters. I dont think they should follow the story exactly or else the series is too predictable and then there's really no point in watching it, because so far, Smallville has had some pretty shocking moments, they usually occur in their season finales, but they're suspenseful. I think Lana should have exited the series by now, and the whole thing with Clark and Lana dating should have already happened in season 4. Then they should have introduced Clark's love interest that he's suppose to have in college, Lori Lemaris (as long as she isnt a mermaid).

But see, we all have different opinions on how the serie should be like.

[Daphne]

Conservative, I like it when they follow the comics story. Though since On this site I have learned that there are many comics I didn't know about.
I wish Chloe could become Lois though.

[smallvillerox05]

I consider myself a Smallville fan moreso than a Superman fan. Some things I don't like (Clark continuing the relationship with Lana after his powers returned.) but overall I like how it is going. Sure, he isn't a perfect model of a teen Superman, but he's more realistic. I'd probably feel that way too if I were in his position. And if you have to have a character that is constantly compared to Peter Parker just because Peter is more realistic, then so be it imo.

BTW, it's not like Peter/Spider-Man came first you know. Clark's adoptive father died in the original establishing comics, and I bet that helped Clark in his journey to Superman.

[son2380]

Im a Superman Conservative. Im don't mind some changes, but big changes such as Chloe having a summer fling with Jimmy Olsen. Jimmy should be like 3 or 4 years old right now, but Chloe lost her virginity to him. Or Perry White and Lois Lane and even Lex coming to Smalleville. How do the writers expect us to believe that Lois, the number one reporter in Metropolis, is so stupid that she can't recognize Clark Kent in tights. She lived in the guys house for about a year, and she won't realize he's Superman. I guess they can say that Perry White lost to many brain cells from Alcohol to remember Clark. Also how will they explain how the most cunning individual on the Planet doesn't realize that his arch-enemy was once his best friend. Its not like Clark is gonna put on a mask or somthing

I think Chloe should have been the one that died, but If Lois never came to Smalleville then I wouldn't care if she was alive or not. To me to keep the story right on track either Chloe has to die or Lois has to leave and never come back.

This really didn't make sense to me in the comic either so its not just Smalleville. Anybody on here with excellent knowledge of superman who can explain how people don't recognize him. Don't say its because of the glasses

[loisnlana]

I am conservative Smallville fan but I don't mind slight changes from the mythos.
I grew up on the comics though so I won't accept something as radical as Clark becoming a woman or whatever but I don't mind little changes here and there.

People who say Lois Lane coming to Smallville violates the comics haven't done alot of homework. True it violates Post-Crisis and movie continuity, but there were many Pre-Crisis stories of a teenage Lois Lane in Smallville meeting Clark and Superboy. Funny how nobody mentions that.

I love how everytime some comic continuity is violated, alot of people post how "this is not how it is suppose to happen". This is Smallville. Anything could happen. I love how they pull from Pre-Crisis, John Bryne stuff and the Reeves movies. It's great!

[HalJordan4184]

True, she was in smallville in some Superboy comics. But she sure as heck didn't live in Clark's bedroom for a year, before he even developed his other identity, and watched him parade around with no glasses, and already know he has the reputation of being everywhere trouble brews, and miraculously coming out unharmed, even when he's KILLED.

I don't like some things they've done, and a lot of the creators attitudes. They don't like some of his superpowers, so they just aren't including them. Clark's farm life was too boring, so they spiced it up with sex, drugs, and rock and roll. Not to mention witches, Lana's seeming uber importance in everything, when in reality, she's a very minor character in Clark's life. Pre-Crisis, She was Superboy's Proto Lois character, and then later, a colleague of clark, and post crisis, she's nothing. She didn't even date Clark, though after Superman 200, I guess she created Superman, by pushing Clark away, and making him save people.

THe biggest thing to me, is the death of jonathon. Both his parent's died pre crisis, but that didn't push him to become Superman. He had already been Superboy at that point. Even originally, it was just a way for him to leave the farm. It didn't force him to go down the road he was going down, he was already headed that way. It just severed his final ties to Smallville. But on the show, his deads death is what's goint to MAKE him start down that road. Jonathons death isn't something that just lets him move on, and continue the path he's on. It's going to drastically alter his personality, per the producers own words, and push him to the path to becoming superman. Except, grief and loss, have never been Clark's motivations for becoming Superman.

[UpandAtom]

I actually like the changes that I see on Smallville. Superman has been done so many times and I don't want to see the same thing repeated over and over and over and over again.

[CodyM]

Here we go again. First of all, i'm pretty conservative with my superman mythos, which smallville doesn't violate flagrantly too often, as the most basic points of the origin have been told and re-told many times but only rarely fleshed out. That makes it much easier to fill in the blanks and fudge a year or two here and there for drama. However, things like Jon Kent dying a decade before he's supposed to.... that irks me. I'm also not a big fan of having metroplis within sight of the smallville water tower. It's an eastern coastal city, smallville's in kansas- that's not an easy piece of wool to pull over the eyes of the american public. But apparently, you get enough teenaged girls to watch your show and-

I digress.

I really just wanted to reply to a couple of things, to clear them up for the would-be comic fans or the completely uninformed smallville-only fans who don't know as much about the super-mythos.

First, so far as the pre-crisis/post-crisis debate. Sure, a few pieces of a fragment of an element of an idea are there, but nothing more. Lana is still clark's high-school love in the comics, in fact it's been hinted at if not outright said multiple times that it's the reason for she and pete's divorce that she still loves clark. They were that close. Always have been. So really it's a post-crisis idea, not pre. In fact if you ask any writer/editor at DC they'll tell you how taboo those old stories are from a writing standpoint as most of them are disdained for being two dimensional and flat, uninteresting in a word, to tell. Honestly the only pre-crisis idea that exists here is that superman was heroic before the name and the cape, when he was back home. Other than that, think post 80's continuity for the show.

Last I just wanted to touch on the lois/chloe thing. Chloe's been in comic continuity for a few years now in her own right. They don't need to fuse the characters or kill one off, it's taken care of. Chloe is just chloe.

-Cody

[HalJordan4184]

So, I take it you don't read the comics. Chloe, is not in the comics. Never has been. DC optioned her character a few years back, but nothing has come of it. Lana and Clark, weren't that close. Lana was totally in love with Clark, true, but Clark didn't reciprocate. It's only recently, post smallville's debut, the comics retconned themselves, so that LAna is actually the person who lets Clark go so he can go become a hero, and she even names him. From 1986, thorugh 2001, Lana and Clark had never been an item. Birthright, and all the subsequent retconning, has changed that since, but that just makes it all not fit with how things are supposed to be post crisis.

Also, the crappy, two dimensional things all the writers and editors at DC will tell you are taboo, are all back. He can move planets, fly at fifty times the speed of light, and do anything. Kryptonite is coming back as the generic cure all for having an extremely overpowered Superman. Clark, is nothing now. He's an inconsequential character. Superman and Lois are in love, and Lois only pretended to marry Clark to get at Superman. YOu know, Superman, the kryptonian who never lived on Krypton, grew up as Clark Kent, existed as Clark Kent, learned everything he knows as Clark Kent. Yeah, that guy doesn't exist. Since day one, he's apparently been SUperman. This is pre crisis all over again. Only this time, instead of campiness, they've replaced it with smallville style melodrama, and teen angst.

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by LexLuthorMetropolis
Reopened the thread and retitled it, but if this thread goes political in any way shape of form. I will close it again.

Firstly... I'm definitely a "liberal" in my interpretation of thread NAMES. This thread is clearly not intended to be political... that it was closed at all is rediculous.

More importantly though, to respond to your question! I think i'm a liberal in relation to your question as well. I'm a pretty big Superman fan, and was before getting into Smallville. What I like MOST about SV though is it's creative reinterpretation of Superman. I like seeing a young CK growing into Superman. And not a Superboy... Superboy is one of the lowest points DC Comics ever hit, imho. I love when they diverge from what you'd expect traditionally. I mean, giving Clark a "red-K drug habit" back in the Season 3 premier... I thought that was brilliant. Why SHOULDN'T young Superman be vulnerable to the same influences that any kids his age would be? I love all the changes, as long as they fit and make sense. I particularly love seeing how our traditional characters respond to these unique changes in ways that still coordinate with whom we know they will become.

[HalJordan4184]

Except most of these changes, don't fit with who we know they are SUPPOSED to become.

[TampaVille]

I said something like this on another thread, but... if you're an adult, do you remember what you were like at 18? If you're not, do you expect to be just like you are now when you are an adult? Nobody is the same person at 29 as they are at 18. I like the fact that we're seeing different, less mature, more confused adaptations of the traditional characters.

[GooN]

chris rock - never scared.

the hidden message of my opinion is there :D

[Spoon AZ]

I think I'm liberal when it comes to Smallville and story-telling in general.

If you make a change to the history that makes sense and is cool I love it.

For example: The meteor shower. I think it makes sense and is quite ingenious.

I think the core things of the mythology are kept intact and that's the way it should be. i.e. Lex becoming evil, Clark ending up with Lois etc.

For those that know they're history, SP:TM was the first incarnation to kill Jonathan. Smallville has followed that, but in the comics Jonathan is alive and kicking still.

[GooN]

i forgot to add that i meant the point i mention is only in the context of this thread. ;)

[TampaVille]

Personally, I wouldn't even mind if Clark and Lois had no relationship on Smallville. CK/Superman has had a LOT of lady-friends over the years. Lois was the first, and most important, but far from the only one.

[Gangbuster]

Originally posted by Clark Kent 86
I realized something today I'm very conservative when it come to Smallville, in particular the interpretation of the Superman mythos. I tend to want everything to end up the same as in the comics. If Lana dies in the 100th ep. that will upset me because Lana is a character that has been around for what? 56 years! Why would they up and change history like that! I know for ratings and a good shocker. And whats with all these future heroes? Clark never meets any of these people until he becomes Superman, again ratings and a good show.

Anyway it's little things like that, when TPTB up and change Superman's history like that it dosen't sit well with me. But in time I grow to accept them. (Smallville is just one Superman medium)

So when it comes to the interpretation of the Superman mythos on Smallville are you:

Conservative (Don't like the changes but grow to accept them)
OR
Liberal (Love the changes and hope more are on the way)

By 'conservative' you mean 1986 conservative. In the comics before that, Clark Kent actually did meet all of those future heroes...he was a founding member of the Justice League. I'm in the process of purging all Superman comics in my household NOT made before 1986, because they suck so hard. YOUR conservatism is making it to MY local Salvation Army in black bags, as we speak. Example: here are all the Superman comics since 1986, in a nutshell.

[SPOILER WARNING SINCE 1986]

A stupid, weak, and whiny Superman comes to Metropolis, blah blah blah. Then he gets engaged to Lois, then beaten to death. (meanwhile, Lex Luthor has cloned himself and stabbed a woman to death.) He comes back from the dead, and another hero becomes selfish and tries to destroy the universe. He marries Lois, and then is all whiny when a guy tries to kill his parents. Lex Luthor blows up Metropolis. Then Superman goes to space a lot. Then Lex becomes President, and Superman almost has an affair with Lana. Then someone tries to stick characters from the old comics into Superman books, in a vain attempt to make them better. The original Superman returns, then is beaten to death by a hero who becomes selfish and tries to destroy the universe.

The End.

Now, I think that Smallville has the best special effects of any previous Superman show, because it was made further in the future than the rest of the Superman shows. However, Smallville is different from every other Superman show because the other ones had Superman in them. So there's a tradeoff...great special effects twice a year, or having Superman in your show. Personally, I just sold all four seasons of Smallville to a soldier for 125 bucks today, so I can make room for better DVDs coming out this year, that have Superman in them.

I might still watch the finale anyway...nope, I missed it while I was typing this stupid post. :rolleyes:



For those that know they're history, SP:TM was the first incarnation to kill Jonathan. Smallville has followed that, but in the comics Jonathan is alive and kicking still. [/B]

Yeah...that. For those who know their history, Jonathan Kent died in the late 30s. That's what made Clark become Superman, until those 1986 comics I was talking about. In fact, you can see Pa Kent breathe his last breath in...

1) Nearly 50 years of DC comics history.
2) The Adventures of Superman tv show
3) Any of 3 famous Superman novels.
4) Superman: The Movie
5) Superfriends: I'm Gonna Git You Sucka! (1980)

[TampaVille]

Originally posted by Gangbuster

5) Superfriends: I'm Gonna Git You Sucka! (1980)

Ah... what? Is that real?