Lionel's motives

[margroks]

Any thoughts on why Lionel is helping Jonathan and CLArk instead of his own son? Is it because, as I now strongly suspect, he's actually being influenced by Jor-El or possibly still actually possessed by him?

Did Lionel actually kill the guy Lex wanted to undermine the Kent campaign? And what was the info the guy had on Jonathan? Was it the adoption info? Because Lionel seemed completely unsurprised by whatever was on the paper he burned.

Anyone?

[God-Man]

I have no idea what is going on with Lionel. It's really starting to bother me. I hope he is still influenced by Jor-El, because that is the only reasonable explanation for his actions that I can think of.

[Doox]

My guess was he didn't like the thought of his own son becoming more powerful than he was, and that he was undermining Lex so that he could keep him in check.

[Poweranimals]

Originally posted by Doox
My guess was he didn't like the thought of his own son becoming more powerful than he was, and that he was undermining Lex so that he could keep him in check. That's the impression that I'm getting as well.

[Nospam]

Originally posted by Doox
My guess was he didn't like the thought of his own son becoming more powerful than he was, and that he was undermining Lex so that he could keep him in check.

Chloe made that suggestion in Splinter, but I wonder if there is more to it. This could be another of those dramatic devices TPTB like to use to create tension between Lionel and Lex without really explaining why. Notice that Lex picked up a copy of The Art of War during the conversation with Lionel. Perhaps Lionel is testing him yet again. Regardless, I seriously hope TPTB tie up this loose end by the end of this season with a plausible reason or reasons for Lionel actions.

[Coyote]

Lionel is certainly capable of playing dirty tricks on Lex without any influence from Jor-El. He got Lex locked in a mental hospital and had his brain fried with electroshock, for example. But he doesn't do such things unless there is some gain in it for him. I don't see what Lionel would have to gain by having JK as a state senator. For that matter, I don't see what Jor-El would have to gain by that either. Why would Jor-El care about a bunch of Kansas farmers getting their corn subsidies? Lionel probably did have Griff killed. He does that sort of thing now and then. It did appear that he was familiar with whatever it was that Griff had on Jonathan. Maybe that's why he wants Jonathan elected. He can then use whatever he knows to control Jonathan. Or maybe he does want to undermine Lex and keep him out of a political career for some reason. He may even think he's doing that for Lex's own good. Should be interesting to see what TPTB come up with for an explanation.

[No-El]

One Word!


EVIL!!!!

[Chlark Kent]

Lionel is challenging Lex to pull out all the stops in the hopes that he will eliminate JK, while at the same time, making Martha think he's on their side. Then, with JK out of the way, bring on the Mionel.

[warriorrenegade]

What if hes "Brainiac" in disguise? That would definetly throw everyone for a loop... though it would be hard to explain how he became Lionel and disposed of his body.

[God-Man]

Originally posted by warriorrenegade
What if hes "Brainiac" in disguise? That would definetly throw everyone for a loop... though it would be hard to explain how he became Lionel and disposed of his body.

ooooooh, I like that! That would be cool if it came true!

[kistner10]

I think Lionel is trying to challenge Lex. He wants to see what Lex is capable of and see Lex reach his full potential. Lionel is making him pull out all of the stops.

[jaime,oburg]

Originally posted by Doox
My guess was he didn't like the thought of his own son becoming more powerful than he was, and that he was undermining Lex so that he could keep him in check.

Agreed.
Does anyone think that Lionel has forgotten Lex helped to put him in prison. You could look at it as Lex beat him at his own game and this makes Lionel proud in some sick you are the son I always wanted sort of way. Lionel still has too much of an ego that is more important then challenging his son to be the best evil Luthor he can be.

[jimmyolsenblues]

I think its because Lionel is a criminal. There is information somewhere that he killed his parents for the insurance. I am sure also that Lionel killed many other people. Maybe being state senator is nothing, but Lex possibly could go much further *hint* in politics then the state assembly of Kansas. The higher lex would go in politics, the more light that would be cast on Lionel. Eventually Lionel might believe that if Lex would run for a national campaign, that enough people would be digging into Lionel's past and find out where all the bodies are.

[luthorcorp]

their hardly ever Noble so this is just another Lionel agenda

[sirconical]

Originally posted by jimmyolsenblues
I think its because Lionel is a criminal. There is information somewhere that he killed his parents for the insurance. I am sure also that Lionel killed many other people. Maybe being state senator is nothing, but Lex possibly could go much further *hint* in politics then the state assembly of Kansas. The higher lex would go in politics, the more light that would be cast on Lionel. Eventually Lionel might believe that if Lex would run for a national campaign, that enough people would be digging into Lionel's past and find out where all the bodies are. Ooooh. I like that one. You think TPTB could think out a plot that interesting and stick to it?

[No-El]

Originally posted by warriorrenegade
What if hes "Brainiac" in disguise? That would definetly throw everyone for a loop... though it would be hard to explain how he became Lionel and disposed of his body.


Stasis!!!

:D

[Superboy2]

In thier first meeting, my VCR cut off most of the Lionel/Martha scene. Something about Lionel helping her and Jonathan. Can somone post what was exactly said?

[Daphne]

Lionel is just an ***. He has never tried to help his son has he? Of course he wants to see him fail because he wants to see Lex angry. That's kind of been the pattern from the begining.

[Metamorpho]

that could make sense lionel being influenced by jor el hearing the talk between them and burning the evidence that clark has no record of ever being born
one reason for this could be that jor el didnt want people to know about clark just yet or maybe he wanted jonathan to win or maybe its just lionel not jor el and he doesnt want lex to become that powerful

[MozartRequiem]

This may be out there, but I think it just might come true:

What if it's the REAL Lionel Luthor right now (not Jor-El), BUT Lionel still remembers everything that was downloaded into his brain. Maybe part of Jor-El's plan screwed up and Lionel knows EVERYTHING about Clark and his secret. Now, he's trying to protect the Kents, and raise them into a position of power. He's playing the "get them to trust me" first card-he wants the Kents to believe in him and be thankful for Jonathan winning. He wants Jonathan to be in a position of power, so that ultimately he can blackmail Jonathan, saying that if Clark doesn't join forces with him, then he'll tell the world about Clark.

This will help to further the rifts between Lionel/Lex, and Lex/Clark, because Lex will obsess over what it is Lionel knows, Lionel won't tell him, and neither will Lex, ultimately leaving Lex alone and craving answers.

You notice that they STRONGLY implied Lionel killed Griff (when Lex said "Griff is dead. His body showed up at Suicide Slum this morning," to which Lionel looks ruthlessly at Lex and responds without blinking, "Dangerous neighborhood, Lex.") Even though Jor-El is ruthless, I'm not sure if he's exactly a "killer" or not. But Lionel I can easily see killing someone to better serve his twisted advantages, in fact it's something we've seen him do before with Lucas, Lex, etc. In order for Lionel to be so strongly opposed to Griff, Griff probably had information on Clark, the adoption, and maybe even Clark's powers. That's why Lionel burned the papers, and that's why he killed Griff. He also tells Lex later on that he's slipping "First Milton Fine is lost from your radar, now Griff..." So I think, while he wants the Kents to win, he wants to keep Lex challenged and guessing. He's still testing his son's mettle, and preparing him to be a ruthless businessman.

Also, if you notice, the song playing at the end by Depeche Mode was creepy, especially when Martha entered the car with Lionel; it had a feeling of impending doom to it, which is why I think it's the good ol' evil Lionel.

That's my theory. Then near the end of the season, Lionel will tell Clark he knows his secret, and say, "You're going to join me, Clark. Together we could rule this world" (like Lex in the comics). Clark of course will refuse, and maybe an epic battle will ensue (at least that's what I hope).

[margroks]

Possible but I'm guessing Jor-El wouldn't be so easy to thwart. Plus all Lionel's remarks about Lana would be better explained, I think, by Jor-El's being the one either influencing Lionel subtly or actually pretending to be Lionel. Remember how non-plussed Lionel was when he came to Lex and said he didn't tremember anything except being in the study (before he was overcome by the stone in his pocket in Commencement) and then suddenly being there again? Wouldn't even Lionel be slightly unnerved by that missing time? Unless he was actually Jor-El and knew what had really happened?

[Coyote]

Lionel has probably known all about Clark since before he was taken over by Jor-El. He shot Jason last year just as Jason was going to tell Lex why Clark was the key to everything. Obviously Lionel already knew what Jason was going to say and wanted to conceal the information from Lex.

Lionel might have some useful reasons for Jonathan being elected to office, but Jor-El wouldn't care about that. So it does seem to be Lionel that's taking these actions and not Jor-El. Lionel does appear to have an odd lack of curiosity (especially for a Luthor) about his missing time. He may remember everything that happened, and it may have come as no great shock to him since he already knew all about Clark anyway.

Lionel is probably using his knowledge for his own purposes, but he may have made an agreement with Jor-El as well. Jor-El wouldn't care much what Lionel does as long as it doesn't directly interfere with him. Lionel killed Griff to protect Clarks secret. He probably did it because he wants to keep this valuable information to himself for his own use, and not because of any unselfish concern for the Kents.

I think it would be fun if the information Griff had didn't have anything to do with Clark at all, and was related to Jonathan and Lois's affair. Maybe the crazy bald girl was telling the truth about that, and JK and Lois really are hooking up out in the hog barn.

[No-El]

Lionel will continue to have only EVIL ulterior motives for his gain!

He is a Luthor!

[LuthorRequiem2]

"Possible but I'm guessing Jor-El wouldn't be so easy to thwart. Plus all Lionel's remarks about Lana would be better explained, I think, by Jor-El's being the one either influencing Lionel subtly or actually pretending to be Lionel. Remember how non-plussed Lionel was when he came to Lex and said he didn't tremember anything except being in the study (before he was overcome by the stone in his pocket in Commencement) and then suddenly being there again? Wouldn't even Lionel be slightly unnerved by that missing time? Unless he was actually Jor-El and knew what had really happened?"

He probably does remember, and is just concealing it from Lex. You know Lionel, he's never what he seems. I agrew with Coyote, that he is Lionel, but maybe made an agreement with Jor-El or something.

[Makeshift Python]

Can anyone explain how the hell Lionel Luthor got resources like seasons 1-3? I could have sworn in Transference, all his accounts and hidden accounts were wiped out (with the exception of two bucks)

[margroks]

Yes, that was certainly how it appeared. But suddenly he acts as if he's all monied again. Accounts even Lex knew nothing about, maybe? Accorsing to show canon, he was living on charity from his son yet even by season's end, when he covered up Lana's murder of Jason's mother, he acted as if he was wealthy and in control.

I just can't decide what's going on either. To me, I tend to give more weight to Lionel being Lion-El because I think it explains more but you're right, he does always have an angle and is very tricky. However, I think Jor-El uses and takes what he wants, even from his own son and I'm not sure why he would feel the need to make any deal with Lionel, whom he knows has not ever had Clark's well being at heart. I'd think Jor-El would have more qualms about Lionel than Lex, who was, at one time, Clark's friend at least.

I'll be very interested to see how this plays out but after seeing Lionel in the FOS, hugging Clark as his son I have a hard time seeing him as plain old Lionel Luthor.

[All about Clark]

I feel I'm a minority on this, but I think Lionel sees Lex as bad and doesn't want him in office, so that's why he helps the Kents, not because he wants a Kent in office, just doesn't want evil Lex there, he's said this to Clark, that he sees the bad in him now from eppy Bound. I think Lionel has alot of info from Jor-el but doesn't want the Kents to know it. And the burning of the document whether it was real or made up, would have brought Lex closer to office. What's odd is that there must be conflict for Lionel because he is his son after all.

[margroks]

That's the thing. One, Lionel supposedly re-embraced his bad side (sword fight-Lex cut him in Onyx) which was quite lame but still there it was. Now...I've always theorized that having a Kryptonian spirit inside you like in Transference could alter you afterwards since we saw that Lionel's liver disease was healed but apparently so was his spirit.

This was reversed as above but perhaps when he was possesed by Jor-El, if Jor-El is actually a force for good, (Kryptonian perhaps having a different view of child rearing or maybe the AI, because this isn't really Jor-El, just didn't know what to do to get Clark to behave and so abused him somewhat) Lionel was again made good. But last we saw, Lionel was still his old evil self until he was taken over by the Jor-El AI. And again, Jor-El doesn't have to make deals with anyone as far as we know; he can take them at will and use their knowledge for his own purposes.

Him actually being Lion-El would really fit the circumstances best and explain why he wants Lex to lose and why he wants to protect Clark. But Lionel did obviously know Clark was the special one when he shot Jason. It's confusing and I just can't make up my mind about this one issue.

[UpandAtom]

I don't think Lionel ever reembraced his bad side. He is still trying to be good. That is why he doesn't want Lex to win the senate seat because he believes that power will corrupt his son and make him end up like him.