Why does everything have to revolve around Lana?

[smallvilleusedtobegood]

First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana? Smallville is supposed to be about the respective journies of Clark and Lex, but AlMiles have lost sight of that since the beginning of Season 4. I just don't understand the focus on Lana. We are constantly told that she is a perfect character and she never does anything wrong and EVERYONE absolutely loves her, but we never see any proof of why she is so "perfect" and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us do not like her. Like tonight's episode--basically saying the reason Lex goes bad is because of Lana. Lex turning bad and breaking away from Clark is (or at least should be) SO MUCH BIGGER than Lana. Disappointing when you have watched for five seasons and then you are given a lame reason for Lex's turn focused on an even lamer character. :( And no, Almiles, this is NOT "everything we have been waiting for." Far from it.

[Clark Kent 86]

They can branch out every once in a while! Chill out.

[MANOFSTEELKALEL]

Lana's death wasnt a literal occurrence that would happen it was just a dream, and it was a metaphor for Lex, that showed with a life of happiness and love, he'd lose the power and control he values now.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
Lana's death wasnt a literal occurrence that would happen it was just a dream, and it was a metaphor for Lex, that showed with a life of happiness and love, he'd lose the power and control he values now.

That's how took it too!

Lex would rather have everything at his finger tips then have to go through the pain of losing someone and not having all the power in the world to save them.

He feels at this point at least the impression I got, is that he can have both the happy ending and the power!

I don't see Lex giving up on Lana anytime soon, now he's just going to believes he'll be able to save her or anyone dare to him because he has the power to do so.

[tejdog1]

Like Anakin, Lex too has lost people he's cared about. Anakin lost his mother, Lex lost his mother + Julian. I don't see why they had to copy the story of 'losing the wife in childbirth', but whatever.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by smallvilleusedtobegood
First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana? Smallville is supposed to be about the respective journies of Clark and Lex, but AlMiles have lost sight of that since the beginning of Season 4. I just don't understand the focus on Lana. We are constantly told that she is a perfect character and she never does anything wrong and EVERYONE absolutely loves her, but we never see any proof of why she is so "perfect" and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us do not like her. Like tonight's episode--basically saying the reason Lex goes bad is because of Lana. Lex turning bad and breaking away from Clark is (or at least should be) SO MUCH BIGGER than Lana. Disappointing when you have watched for five seasons and then you are given a lame reason for Lex's turn focused on an even lamer character. :( And no, Almiles, this is NOT "everything we have been waiting for." Far from it.


See the MANOFSTEELKALEL's "The Meaning of Lex's Dream" below. Posters on that board eloquently stated why it is really not about Lana.


Also funny how you think SV is all about Lana. Same complaints are made about Chloe by Lana fans.

[cbismyidol]

Yeah, people seem to be forgetting Lana is not perfect. She killed a woman, went to Lex to cover it up, and after all the years she has been pleading with Clark to be honest wit her about everything, she lies to him about the spaceship (Splinter). . . this goes to show that good girls are truly just bad girls that don't get caught. :)

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by PeteM
Same complaints are made about Chloe by Lana fans.

So true! :rotfl:

[bunkmania]

Originally posted by smallvilleusedtobegood
First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana? Smallville is supposed to be about the respective journies of Clark and Lex, but AlMiles have lost sight of that since the beginning of Season 4. I just don't understand the focus on Lana. We are constantly told that she is a perfect character and she never does anything wrong and EVERYONE absolutely loves her, but we never see any proof of why she is so "perfect" and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us do not like her. Like tonight's episode--basically saying the reason Lex goes bad is because of Lana. Lex turning bad and breaking away from Clark is (or at least should be) SO MUCH BIGGER than Lana. Disappointing when you have watched for five seasons and then you are given a lame reason for Lex's turn focused on an even lamer character. :( And no, Almiles, this is NOT "everything we have been waiting for." Far from it.

Its true that lana isnt the only reason and that lex's reasons for doing what he did are plentiful, but you cannot disagree with the fact that LANA is the major reason. I agree with the poster with how everything is revolving around lana. there are billions of people on earth that one of the worlds richest people could choose from and yet he falls for this compilation of garbage named lana. I still enjoyed the episode and agree with everyone but i wish they could have developed a more intelligent and complex reason as to why lex does what he does. just my two cents.

[Shiver]

I think they're trying to keep Lex's "turn towards evil" somewhat in keeping with his various origin stories. According to Wikipedia, it's the death of his childhood sweetheart "Lena" that finally turns him into a power-seeking supervillain.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by bunkmania
I agree with the poster with how everything is revolving around lana. there are billions of people on earth that one of the worlds richest people could choose from and yet he falls for this compilation of garbage named lana. I still enjoyed the episode and agree with everyone but i wish they could have developed a more intelligent and complex reason as to why lex does what he does. just my two cents.

Well in the real world Kristin has a bigger following then both Erica and Allison.

I guess it wouldn't be that off for the same to imply in Smallville with Lana, Lois and Chloe. :lol:

[sunshine1973]

Really! More followers you say? The character of Lana is so annoying I can barely stand to watch her anymore, but I still manage to for the sake of the story line.

[No-El]

Originally posted by smallvilleusedtobegood
First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana? Smallville is supposed to be about the respective journies of Clark and Lex, but AlMiles have lost sight of that since the beginning of Season 4. I just don't understand the focus on Lana. We are constantly told that she is a perfect character and she never does anything wrong and EVERYONE absolutely loves her, but we never see any proof of why she is so "perfect" and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us do not like her. Like tonight's episode--basically saying the reason Lex goes bad is because of Lana. Lex turning bad and breaking away from Clark is (or at least should be) SO MUCH BIGGER than Lana. Disappointing when you have watched for five seasons and then you are given a lame reason for Lex's turn focused on an even lamer character. :( And no, Almiles, this is NOT "everything we have been waiting for." Far from it.


Big Al Miles may disagree!

Reason?:

Princess Lana is Queen Of The Universe!! In his eyes! And ONLY his!!

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Well in the real world Kristin has a bigger following then both Erica and Allison.

It's interesting when people make statements like this because how do you know?

[PeteM]

We had a great episode and you still find ways to bash Lana.

The episode didn't revolve around Lana. If anything she was just a metaphor for Lex's perfect life/wife. Lex's dream wife could have been played by anybody and the story would have still worked. The only reason for the complaints is because it was Lana (who has been absent for 2 episodes this year and who has less screen time and story arc than Chloe).


Let me play Devil's advocate, would you still have a problem if Chloe or Lois was Lex's dream wife?


See the forest from the trees.

[Dannyblue1]

It's hard to look at the episode and not think the message is, "Lex turns evil because, in a vision, Lana died. After all he'd gone through, it took Lana dying--or just the prospect of Lana dying, to push him over the edge."

And that's not Lana-bashing. That's just the impression most viewers leave the episode with.

[No-El]

Originally posted by PeteM
We had a great episode and you still find ways to bash Lana.

The episode didn't revolve around Lana. If anything she was just a metaphor for Lex's perfect life/wife. Lex's dream wife could have been played by anybody and the story would have still worked. The only reason for the complaints is because it was Lana (who has been absent for 2 episodes this year and who has less screen time and story arc than Chloe).


Let me play Devil's advocate, would you still have a problem if Chloe or Lois was Lex's dream wife?


See the forest from the trees.


Good point PeteM, good point!!

[Kris-El]

I agree that Lana REPRESENTS a lot in the ways of having a woman who is kind and sweet and hasnt screwed him over like all the others and having a normal happy life completely free of his father. He then thinks however that without the money and power to secure that, its not worth the risk of losing it.

like he told Griff, "I want it all". But Lex will realize that he cant have it all, and he's gonna have to choose between the two. Indirectly, he's already made his choice.

But come on now, he's always had a thing for Lana. I dont think it would have been as effective with Chloe or Lois or anyone else, and thats not to say everything revolves around Lana.

[Small2]

I don't understand the obssession that viewers have against Lana. This was not about "Lana". This was about Lex losing someone he loves as his wife and mother of his children. What more potential greater loss could be developed.?

In the limited number of characters a TV show has, who else would you like to see and still be believable?

If SV was via a written medium the writer(s) could just as easily had a character just for this purpose.

It does add some more dramatic tension that both the hero and the villian love the same person, and that neither ends up with her.

[Kryptonian Snake]

Throughout the entire series, the thing that was supposed to make us feel sorry for Lex was the fact that all his personal relationships end badly. Think about it:

His mother and brother die when he's a child.
Pamela (his caretaker after his mother became ill; "Crush") left him after his mother's death. He then had to see her dying of cancer when he was an adult.
His wife, Helen, tried to kill him.
He's never really had the love of his father. Their relationship has revolved around deception and mind games.
His friendship with Clark is deteriorating because of trust issues.
He's never been fully accepted into the Kent family like he's always wanted.

The loss of Lana keeps in line with the history of Lex's character on the show, and it makes sense that it was her since she's the only person he really still cares about. Lana's death was simply the "straw that broke the camel's back", but it's no heavier than any other "straw" that was already there. It wouldn't have made sense for it to be anyone but Lana since Lex was surprised to be married with kids in the first place.

[attitudejc]

personally i don't think that we should be trying to COMPARE the actors to each other. each one of them has there own thing, and plays it in a different way. thats probably why lois isn't in some, and lana isn't in some, and chloe isn't in some (although not yet this season,but it will soon) because they only need to be there for "their" story, (sorry, this is kinda hard to explain). and well, about Lana centric thing- we all know that lex has been in love with lana, so they HAD to do something with her getting hurt, or dieing or something, becuase they had to find a reason why lex would turn evil. so they choose that. plus they have left a few hints showing his love for her, so they couldn't turn back now!

this is just my opinion

[pull007]

go lana go!!! love LANA!!!!!!!!! :D

[lexobsessed]

It's because the directors and producers of this show are in love/infatuated with KK. I mean in all the commentaries on the DVDs, they're always gushing over how beautiful she is and how she has the best close ups, blah, blah, blah. Seriously, it's borderline obsession and it spills over into the storylines.

bunch of dirty old men:rotfl:

[Damali]

I think Lex believes in the end he IS making the right choices for himself.

I'm not convince its solely about Lana. I think it has more to do with his father, just as its always has.

Lionel's actions have always had a rippling affect on Lex. It drives him to make poor choices at times.

The helplessness that Lex feels in his dream, comes from the fact that his father in one way or another still had control over him and in this case he didn't have his normal resources to help him.

As much as Lex may hate his father, Lionel has been right about having money and power. Lex probably feels that he can protect himself and what he loves with it, than without.



Oh yeah... I forgot Lexana rules!!! :D

[margroks]

Eeewww...yes. I would have a problem with it if it were Chloe or Lois. And really, this "I always loved you," thing is pathetic. But the point isn't that Lex lost someone he loved and it turns him bad, as pathetic as that is, it's because it has to be Lana that is the perfect one and she has to die to turn him evil.

Lana has been the focus of this show since the beginning and it grates and gets really old. The show we were promised was about Clark being raised by the Kents and turning out to be the ultimate hero despite whatever his bio background might be and whatever tragedies he might have suffered. My God, Clark's entire race was destroyed, his own planet obliterated and yet, he's not a psychopathic meglomanical villan. He will, mercifully at some point realize what Lana is and leave her behind but we'd really like to see that happen soon.

We were told Lex, raised by his cold and calculating father, wanted to do right but would slide into darness because his nurture at Lionel's hands was virtually nonexistent. We were not told "everything will go to hell because of Lana Lang. Well sometimes it does but only when the writers use her in place of real thought and plot.

As for this putative Lex being in love with Lana, it makes him seem like a coniving jerk to have hidden behind the guise of trying to help Clark get close to her if he's really had his eye on her the whole time, doesn't it?

To even imply that the dissolution of Clark and Lex;s relationship will ultimately have to do with Lana is revolting.

A man has to take responsibility for his own actions and they can't hide behind claiming other people being at fault for his misdeeds. Making Lana be at the center of this is a complete copout and nothing I want to see. I'm here for the real meaty stuff promised and this, while it was entertaining at first wasn't what I expected and did disappoint at times. To see that Lex chose power over goodness and love even after experiencing whatever it was says not nice things about his character. And it also might say his mother's ghost, if that';s what it was, should be given a different job 'cause she failed to sell it.

[The Great Ymmij]

Actually, Smallville isn't only centering on Clark and Lex. It's centering on Lana as well. There's a reason why Tom Welling, KRISTIN KREUK, and Michael Rosenbaum are the three lead actors and actress. Lex would never be with Chloe because many times have she tried to give him and Lionel a bad name to the public. Lois and Lex hate each other's guts as we saw in the episode before this one. The only other girl would have to be Lana.

[vyperman7]

Originally posted by The Great Ymmij
Actually, Smallville isn't only centering on Clark and Lex. It's centering on Lana as well. There's a reason why Tom Welling, KRISTIN KREUK, and Michael Rosenbaum are the three lead actors and actress. Lex would never be with Chloe because many times have she tried to give him and Lionel a bad name to the public. Lois and Lex hate each other's guts as we saw in the episode before this one. The only other girl would have to be Lana.

I think this is mainly what is wrong with the show however. The show should not be focusing on Lana. She should be a supporting character at best and written only as a love interest. The two most important characters should be Clark and Lex, with Lana in the background. I liked Lana in S1, but with each season they keep making her into more and more of a focus. Season four was the worst in this area. They have always cared too much about Lana in a show that is supposed to focus on the teen years of CK. If you watch the S4 DVD featurette that takes you into the writing room, most of the writers say they enjoy Lana the most. Now even if you are a fan of Lana, you have to realize that there is something wrong with that. If they cared about Clark or Lex as much as they did Lana, there would not be so many people upset at how their characters have been handled.

Now of course, it does come down to personal opinion, and I am just stating mine. But for me, I have never tuned in to see Lana's story and her character develop, and I hate how the writers are always trying to make her seem more important than she actually is. Lana is Clark's love interest and that is it. She is not supposed to be tied to the mythology, she is not supposed to be a determining factor in Lex's evil turn, and she is not supposed to be a factor in Clark and Lex splitting ties. Clark falls in love with Lana, Lana is Clark's high school sweetheart, and keeps his secret when they become friends. That is it.

[SmallvilleMan]

Oh great, another lana hater. How does this episode revolve around her? Lex going bad has to do with him! In the dream he lost lana and could do nothing about it, just like he lost the other people he loved. He went bad, because he knew he could have the power to save someone he loves if they are dying. That was the point, but all you got out of it, was it's all about Lana?:rolleyes:


Now of course, it does come down to personal opinion, and I am just stating mine. But for me, I have never tuned in to see Lana's story and her character develop, and I hate how the writers are always trying to make her seem more important than she actually is. Lana is Clark's love interest and that is it. She is not supposed to be tied to the mythology, she is not supposed to be a determining factor in Lex's evil turn, and she is not supposed to be a factor in Clark and Lex splitting ties. Clark falls in love with Lana, Lana is Clark's high school sweetheart, and keeps his secret when they become friends. That is it.

She has little to do with him going evil, v. It has to do with Lex wanting the power, so he can control things. He told Lillan, that everyone he loves dies and there's nothing he can do about it. So lex figures if he has power and money, then can he stop it. Lex is who he is and like it was showed in the dream, Lionel is the main factor as well.

[mosespeach]

Originally posted by MANOFSTEELKALEL
Lana's death wasnt a literal occurrence that would happen it was just a dream, and it was a metaphor for Lex, that showed with a life of happiness and love, he'd lose the power and control he values now.

That's exactly what I was going to say:)

[umm]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
It's hard to look at the episode and not think the message is, "Lex turns evil because, in a vision, Lana died. After all he'd gone through, it took Lana dying--or just the prospect of Lana dying, to push him over the edge."

And that's not Lana-bashing. That's just the impression most viewers leave the episode with.

As much as I am sooo not a fan of her character, I don´t think anything revolved around Lana in this episode, and, sadly, we can´t blame the girl for everything!
I mean sure she died at childbirth, and that pushed Lex over the edge, but if you look at the bigger picture, Lana´s death really didn´t play that big a role in pushing Lex over the edge and towards becoming evil!
To Lex, she was just another loved one to die in a long line of people, whom Lex cared for, but who either died on him, left, betrayed, or tried to kill him! The guy just can´t get a break! Lana was just the last straw! He has more emotional scars than, well than anybody!
And his current state of mind is his way of dealing with it! In order to protect himself he is removing even the slightest amount of emotion from is belief system, including love, care, friendship, moral, ethics! He is distancing himself and slowly crossing the line towards the darkness where he doesn´t have to live his life accordingly to the common laws! In order to protect himself he needs to be in control at all times, which explanes his, as of late, current powertrip and hunger for power really!
So his destiny of being an evil mastermind has little to do with Lana, if you really think about it!

[PeteM]

Originally posted by margroks
Eeewww...yes. I would have a problem with it if it were Chloe or Lois. And really, this "I always loved you," thing is pathetic. But the point isn't that Lex lost someone he loved and it turns him bad, as pathetic as that is, it's because it has to be Lana that is the perfect one and she has to die to turn him evil.



It is ironic. This episode wasn't about Lana and many posters more eloquent and with more patience than I have explained why Lana's death was just a metaphor of something more personal to Lex: loss of control/powerlessness.


But of course, the Lana haters are always out in full force to make it all about Lana in their neverending tirades against her.


And why are you more upset that it was Lana and not Chloe or Lois who was Lex's dream wife? The role really could be played by anybody because obviously the writers, borrowing heavily from the Family Man, wanted to contrast a life of love and family with a life of power and money.

It made more sense having Lana fill that role because Lex has been shown to have a connection/relationship with her.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

I'm a confessed anti-Lana SV fan, but I thought this ep was great. I didn't even have a second thought about Lana's involvement in the dream, because for once it made sense. Let me explain.

To begin with, Lex and Clark have always been drawn as parallel characters. They have both endured great loss. They both had their lives fundamentally altered by the meteor shower. They both deal with issues of alienation. They both have advantages at their disposal far beyond any normal person. Both have a domineering father figure to contend with. Both are growing towards their respective intertwined destinies. Both have lost a sibling in pregnancy/infancy, and endured feelings of intense guilt related to those events. Both have roles so interrelated and of such magnitude that the paths of their lives is literally the stuff of prophecy.

That being said, they're living out their lives in a small town. They have the same friends. They both have known Lana for years, and both have expressed interest in her. Lex never came out overtly until Onyx, but Lexana undertones have been present since season three at least, that's if we choose to ignore the Lexana underpinings of the creation of the Talon, which even then seemed to suggest something more. Lexana isn't new, it's just more visible.

Given the fact that Lana IS so obviously tied to everything in Smallville, why would it be different now?

[Big Albowski]

OK guys.... Some HATE Lana... Some LOVE Lana.... Some could care less.... DEAL WITH IT!!!
Do not talk about other posters or show obvious disdain for those who disagree with your viewpoint!!!

Al

[smallville_fetish]

Originally posted by margroks
this "I always loved you," thing is pathetic. But the point isn't that Lex lost someone he loved and it turns him bad, as pathetic as that is, it's because it has to be Lana that is the perfect one and she has to die to turn him evil.


Lex was only pathetic because he couldn't even save the woman he loved. This had nothing to do with Lana turning him bad or good. It's about power, power to to play God. "How dare you play God with my life" possibly Lex was still ticked off that Lional had the power to save his wife's life, but chose not to. But Lional did everything he can to make sure he didn't have a crippled son. Point being, power is the only secure happiness.



Its true that lana isnt the only reason and that lex's reasons for doing what he did are plentiful, but you cannot disagree with the fact that LANA is the major reason. I agree with the poster with how everything is revolving around lana. there are billions of people on earth that one of the worlds richest people could choose from and yet he falls for this compilation of garbage named lana. I still enjoyed the episode and agree with everyone but i wish they could have developed a more intelligent and complex reason as to why lex does what he does. just my two cents.
[/B]

But anyway since this is another Lana bashing thread, if you havn't noticed, this episode was named LEX-MAS perhaps maybe becuz it revolves around LEX in case you missed that. I'm surprised that even when Lana is being an understanding wife, caring mother, overal sweet and playful all that good stuff yet all the Lana haters always find something to dig up whine and complain even when there's nothing in this episode. Either stop making stuff up, or bringing stuff up from old previous episodes and why you dislike her character. Her role wasn't THAT big in this episode so stop TURNING it into something big by adding your unnecessary bashing and '2 cent' input because it's worth less than 2 cents if you asked me. This episode wasn't about Lana, the end.

[SmallvilleMan]

It's hard to look at the episode and not think the message is, "Lex turns evil because, in a vision, Lana died. After all he'd gone through, it took Lana dying--or just the prospect of Lana dying, to push him over the edge."

Do you mean most viewers who dislike lana, thought this? That's not the general impression thati've gotten from people. I think I, like most viewers got that Lex turned, because EVERYONE in his life died. He wants the power to help them, which might be why he turned, but more importantly, dream or not, Lex was heading down that road and he has been for a while now.

[ma200]

Wow, another Star Wars rip-off. Oh well, at least its several notches up from when they ripped off House of Wax.

[SmallvilleMan]

I think this is a little different, than star wars though. In that, Anakin was a good guy, but he got drawn in to the darkside to save his wife.

[ma200]

Lex is ambiguous. Not too good but too bad. So is Anakin. Both of them chose the dark path. Like you said, Anakin chose the dark side to save a loved one. His mom died so he couldn't bare to lose Padme. Lex chose the dark side because he doesn't want to lose anyone else in his life. So...yeah, I don't see the difference.

[SmallvilleMan]

I thought Anakin was good to begin with, that was the difference to me. Lex was already going bad, in fact I thought he was bad before this episode, not completely evil, but bad.

[ma200]

Anakin killed a bunch of Tuskins on an another planet in a fit of rage. He also murdered a Darth somethin' somethin.

[Skywalker]

Originally posted by ma200
Darth somethin' somethin.
Nice. :lol:

[SmallvilleMan]

:rotfl:

[ma200]

Well I sure ain't no Star Wars geek, no need to laugh. Meh :p

[Big Albowski]

Star Wars talk going on elsewhere... get back on topic!

Al

[mackenzie925]

Interesting Star Wars analogy. I think the only difference between Lex and Anakin - and the only one, because they do travel parallel paths to darkness, is that Anakin still had good in him. It was deep down, but he had it.

With Lex turning completely evil now ... will there be any good left in him?

I think that would be the only difference. Very interesting symbolism, though.

[4EverSmallville]

IMO the scene with Lionel was the most pivotal and that is where the message is conveyed. It wasn't about Lex turning evil because Lana died, the two are hardly related in themselves. Lionel refuses to save her because he turned his back on the money, the power, and him. The message I thought Lex took was that in order to secure the things he values (be happy in life) he has to maintain the money and the power.

[mackenzie925]

I agree with you, 4EverSmallville. That's exactly how I took it. The only way for him to have love in his life was to make sure he had the money and the power. Or, to get everything else he wants, he has to secure the money and the power first.

Right on! :-)

[MocoLoco4U]

http://kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34370

Booya!

I was so on this a year and a half ago...

[midnite_spark]

Oy.....here we go again....

This episode isn't revolving around Lana. Yes, Lex dreamt of her being his wife and his life being all on the up and up....of course he would dream of Lana....she's the only girl he's in "love" with. Why would it be Chloe or Lois? when he has absolutely no feelings whatsoever about them?

And it wasn't becuz of Lana dying that made Lex become evil...in the episode. He clearly stated that everyone he loved has died. why would he want to live that life? But it did have something to do with him going evil...but it was not entirely the reason. Everything was just stacking up and her dying just pushed everything over the edge. It wasn't her and her alone.

and i agree with 4Ever on this, bout the scene with him and his dad refusing to help him. He then realized that in order to have happiness....he has to have power and money to prevent anything to go askew in his plan for happiness.

This was a good episode (even despite all of the lexana....go clana! :p ) must we have the same old "why is lana the center of everything?" thread? oh wait....hold on....i think its cuz no episode comment is complete without the "i hate lana becuz..." thread....

[CK&CK]

I agree that as the object of desire....everything revolves around Lana....and this episode was no exception.......except that the story was so good (as well as the acting) that I personally didn't care. I enjoyed the episode. I just hope that the rift between Clark and Lex is not just a result of the Lana factor. That by itself would be so lame.

[lexchloe]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Do you mean most viewers who dislike lana, thought this? That's not the general impression thati've gotten from people. I think I, like most viewers got that Lex turned, because EVERYONE in his life died. He wants the power to help them, which might be why he turned, but more importantly, dream or not, Lex was heading down that road and he has been for a while now.

But not everyone he loved died though. What about the two children? Do they not count at all?

[Kryptonian Snake]

Originally posted by lexchloe
What about the two children? Do they not count at all?
Considering the fact that Lex met his kids when he woke up next to Lana, I don't think they count. The love Lex has for Lana is from his real life, not life he sees while in a coma. I mean, if someone dropped a child in your life and told you the chile was yours, would you automatically love them and have a strong connection with them? I doubt it.

[No-El]

I thought that is why this thread exisited?

To vent on the focus of Lana in Lexmas as it was in Splinter.

[smallville_fetish]

Lana played a big role in Splinter because Clark loves her and she was in Lexmas because Lex loves her. This has nothing to do with focus on her whatever because if anything it's about Clark and Lex and she happens to just tie in there. It's why Clark and Lex love Lana that you should be venting at (esp Lex) but if it's just that, they love Lana, object of desire if you want to call it and you're just going to have to deal with it to get over her.

[Kreukie]

Originally posted by CK&CK
I agree that as the object of desire....everything revolves around Lana....and this episode was no exception.......except that the story was so good (as well as the acting) that I personally didn't care. I enjoyed the episode. I just hope that the rift between Clark and Lex is not just a result of the Lana factor. That by itself would be so lame.

Bias, bias, bias, bias!


Originally posted by No-El
I thought that is why this thread exisited?

To vent on the focus of Lana in Lexmas as it was in Splinter.

Bias, bias, bias, bias!


Originally posted by Dannyblue1
It's interesting when people make statements like this because how do you know?

The amount of media play one gets over the other.

We know Tom more popular than Michael because he gets way more media play in general than Michael.

Kristin gets more media play over both Erica and Allison.

Just compare fan sites of each of the actresses and see which one gets updated more with actual coverage of each of them and that's how you know who's more popular than the other.

If the media cares to talk about her, then obviously there’s a reason behind it.

Why would TheU.com use Kristin as one of their top actor when selling their product over other WB actors if she wasn't popular enough to get people to buy the product?

Stuff like that is what makes me believe that. :p

[Naomi]

Originally posted by lexchloe
But not everyone he loved died though. What about the two children? Do they not count at all?
Lex wanted it all

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Kreukie
Bias, bias, bias, bias!



Bias, bias, bias, bias!



:p

What a great argument Kreukie.......okay.....I'm sold.

Sold on the fact that your either need to take a closer look in the mirror....or re-read the old (and extremely pertinent) adage of "the Pot calling the Kettle Black". Whether I'm biased or not......it would seem from your more than stellar argument that you either never read the adage.....or never understood it.

[AngylWylde]

I liked the episode in that it was well acted, etc... I have some problems with the episode, however. I didn't like Lana being used as the future wife character in Lex's dream, but I can live with that. The main problem is not her being utilized in that way for the episode - but for the whole idea of Lex being "in love" with a character like her in the first place. And the statement, "I've always loved you" - was downright inane. It is so out of character. *That* is what many people probably mean when they say everything is all about Lana -- the fact that almost every single character loves Lana. NOW Lex. She is everyone's focus. I would have the same problem pretty much if almost every single person loved and worshiped or was obsessed with Chloe or Lois or anyone else. For chrissakes everyone on the show and half of the people that come on the show for even a very brief time are obsessed with or love Lana, even female characters now and then. If it was Lois or Chloe or anyone else - it doesn't matter which character is being blown way out of proportion to their importance, the fact is - it's the character of Lana and there is something very wrong with the way Lana is shown. I've had people watch the show for several different episodes in different seasons and know nothing about it at first -- and even these people notice something right away is wrong. It's painfully obvious. Lana may be a main character - but that doesn't mean because she's a main character that everyone must love her and/or fall in love with her. That's crazy. And for multiple characters to love her - there should be some substance to her, some complexity - something very obvious that attracts people besides the tired 'she's pretty!' So is the other ladies on the show and many other characters that have appeared, but you don't see people obsessing over them all the time. And in my opinion I also think it makes all the others characters look bad who are obsessing over her freakishly (and it is freakishly, that's not normal) and also makes Lana look bad. Clark is supposed to love her, but not everyone else. It's got to the point now, when TPTB in their neverending perverted obsession with KK is warping not only storylines and mythology but warping characters out of character (ie Lex).

[Ketchup]

Anyone else draw a parallel between Clark and Lex in this episode? Think Superman years, when he loses Lois. Except Clark has the pwoer to save her, while Lex is powerless and is forced to watch Lana die. I know this is pretty much off topic in this thread, but thought it was an interesting thought... one could even say that Lex turns evil to save Lana, while Clark disobeys his father to save Lois. There certainly is a sentimental side to our beloved villain.

[smallville_fetish]

Good point AngylWylde I do agree that Lex being in love with Lana is just plain wrong. That's the main point why people are complaining in this thread that 'everything revolves around Lana' though this episode didn't particularly revolve around her but she was still a main aspect of Lex's dream. I don't think Lex turned evil JUST to save Lana, she was part of the 3 people who he loved and ended up dying because he was helpless and powerless and could'nt 'secure' everything. But back to Lex being in love with Lana, man they need to introduce a new character to Lex. But like someone else had said on this board, Lex confuses love with what he can't have, like Lana. But if 'he's always loved her' then I'm going with the Oedipus theory where his dead mother=Lana, dead brother=Clark and soon will be his dead father; Oedipus killed his father to be with his mother and Lional clearly doesn't support this Lex loving Lana thing. (From Splinter and Lexmas). As for Kristin of course she is a bigger character than Allison and Erica, even though Allison has more screen time this season, it's because 'it's her?Chloe's, but from the begining it's always been Kristin, Lana who is Clark's love interest but lately, apparently everyone's love interest. That just makes Lex really fit in with all the FOTWs

[margroks]

It would have been more powerful if his children were in jeapardy. But no, it was only Lana and it is indeed all about her. And that the final split is because of Lana? They are SO going there, lame as it is. This isn't about hating Lana but about her lack of worth because she's a vapid one dimensional character who's never shown to have any traits that would warrant all this inexplicable attention and adoration. Neither the hero or the villan should care about her so much as far as we can see because they've never given us a reason for it. SO her appearances are pretty much gratuitous and unearned in the mythos.

[attitudejc]

Personally, i think that when the writers decided for lex to be "in love" with lana in the first place, then they had to finish the story, or keep it goin (since we don't know when it is going to end). so there mistake was way back when they made lex in love with her. I don't mind the fact that Clark loves her and blah blah blah, but i DO MIND that (as mentioned before) that LEX is in love with her too. that is soooo off. its not right. However, i don't mind the storylines about lana because everyone has their own story line. before, i would have complained that they didn't give enough chloe storylines, but now, that has definately changed. and i also have to mention the change that kklana haven't been in 2 or maybe 3 episodes this season, so technically she isn't revovled around EVERYTHING. but, i see where your comin from, and that is where im coming from. i am not really a lana lover, i just don't don't like bashing, and i think we should be fair to the character and their storylines.

[Jlvsclrk]

Originally posted by attitudejc
Personally, i think that when the writers decided for lex to be "in love" with lana in the first place, then they had to finish the story, or keep it goin (since we don't know when it is going to end). so there mistake was way back when they made lex in love with her. I don't mind the fact that Clark loves her and blah blah blah, but i DO MIND that (as mentioned before) that LEX is in love with her too. that is soooo off. its not right. However, i don't mind the storylines about lana because everyone has their own story line. before, i would have complained that they didn't give enough chloe storylines, but now, that has definately changed. and i also have to mention the change that kklana haven't been in 2 or maybe 3 episodes this season, so technically she isn't revovled around EVERYTHING. but, i see where your comin from, and that is where im coming from. i am not really a lana lover, i just don't don't like bashing, and i think we should be fair to the character and their storylines.
Remember way back in Nocodemus, when Lana basically says that Lex must be interested in her or why else would he have helped her with the Talon. And I bet Clark is remembering with some trepidation all of Lex's advice in S1 to go after Lana despite her relationship with Whitney. "A high school [or college] boyfriend isn't a husband. He's an obstacle."

FYI, I liked most of S1 Lana. I like most of S5 Lana. I'm trying to forget much of S2, most of S3 and especially S4 Lana. I feel that one of the main weaknesses of the show is the writers trying to find ways to give Lana screentime and coming up with a lot of ultimately pointless stories, which fortunately I can fast forward through when they reach DVD. Lord how I hated Henry Small in S2! They made a crucial mistake in not letting Clark do what is obvious and tell her the secret, which would have led naturally to her occupying the role of confidant. Oh well. Here's hoping that's something they take care of soon.

[margroks]

THey won't since Clark has admitted he knows Lana wouldn't accept him as Chloe does. LAna isn't that kind of person and that's why she isn't his confidante. Their real mistake was in not making Lana someone nice and showing us why anybody would be so enamoured of her. Since they never have, she's not considered to be deserving of this extreme attention. And the producers have admitted they use her as the fetish, the "object of desire" without fleshing her out into someone we could like and understand. SHe's a thing that everybody wants for no understandable reason and that's a diservice to the viewers and to the hero. Because the hero should want a girl who earns his adoration and whom he can trust implicitly. ANything else makes the hero look very bad and very stupid.

[PeteM]

Of course, this thread has now generated into your typical Lana sucks thread prevalent on this board.

[smallville_fetish]

What else is new....

[margroks]

No, it hasn't. People are giving some excellent reasons why the show is all too often centered around a girl who lacks any real substance or worth that we can see and it's outrageous that the producers think boring teen angst with Lana Lang at the heart of it is more important or more interesting than than the hero about whom this show is supposed to be. Far from being baseless, these are well thought out complaints and people have had them almost since the beginning. I care about Clark and seeing him grow beyond his foolish crush on a cardboard cuttout girl and that's not happening.

It's the producers and writers who've made her so unlikeable and who should bear the blame for her poor characterization not the viewers who see through the hype. They could have developed her into someone the hero could understandably have real feelings for but they didn't, leaving us with nothing at all but vapid and dull and it makes the hero look ridiculous.

[PeteM]

Prime example. See above.

[margroks]

Again, no. She is s poor character but it's not the fault of those who realize it and want more. If you disagree then why not explain? Is it that you think the show should revolve around Lana? Or that is doesn't and such complaints are baseless? Or that Lana is perfect and everyone should worship at her feet? It doesn't shore up an opposing view just to post oneliners that have no supporting factual arguments to the contrary nor does it refute the arguments that support the thesis of this thread. If you have some reasoning then by all means do share it with us.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by margroks
Again, no. She is s poor character but it's not the fault of those who realize it and want more. If you disagree then why not explain? I


I get it you think, you think she is a poor character. A waste of space. You and others have said it so MANY times before, over and over and over and over again ad naseum. I have wasted too much time arguing against such beliefs. Why bother? Your hatred of the character is ingrained and you really do not want discussions on why your beliefs are wrong. Rather, you want another opportunity to regurgitate the same complaints against the character over and over again.

I have gotten the message that you hate her and have learned to ignore it. Why haven't you gotten the message that others might love her character and nothing you say repeatedly will change their minds.

What bothers me is why must you and others hijack every thread and turn it into a Lana sucks thread?

[BeldarofRemulak]

Well, she has the right to. We all do. This thread is basically a Lana Sucks thread to begin with anyway. Personally, I like Lana the character, but I like Chloe, Lex, and Clark more. and it gets on my nerves that everything revolves around her. Its frustrating!

[PeteM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BeldarofRemulak
Well, she has the right to. We all do. This thread is basically a Lana Sucks thread to begin with anyway. Personally, I like Lana the character, but I like Chloe, Lex, and Clark more. and it gets on my nerves that everything revolves around her. Its frustrating! [/QUOTE



This thread is about whether Lexmas revolves around Lana?

It could be argued that the thread invite discussion about how every episode/story revolves around Lana.

Quite a stretch to Lana sucks.

By your reasoning, every thread involving Lana is basically whether Lana sucks.

How repetitive. There is actually such a thread in the Lana character forum. Leave it there.

[Tabbymarie]

Mod Note: Alright guys-back on topic. PeteM, please make better use of the "report" link and try not to mod the forum yourself. If you think a post is breaking a rule, report it, do not participate yourself or else you might find that you get a warning as well.

Back on topic for all.

[attitudejc]

Originally posted by Veaglarwen
Mod Note: Alright guys-back on topic. PeteM, please make better use of the "report" link and try not to mod the forum yourself. If you think a post is breaking a rule, report it, do not participate yourself or else you might find that you get a warning as well.

Back on topic for all.

THANK YOU!!!

i don't really think it revolves around lana. like i mention before, they had to keep going with the story of lex loving lana. so they obviously couldn't put someone like chloe in her place.

[PeteM]

Typical. A Lana fan gets a warning.


I'm not interested in moderating this board.

However, shouldn't I have the right to voice a complaint against posters who repeatedly hijack a thread to state for the upteenth time why they think Lana sucks?

And why aren't those posters warned to stay on topic.

[Watching Smallville]

This question actually puzzles me. I would never expect anyone to ask why everything revolves around Clark, or why everything revolves around Lex. Lana's character is in the center of this version of the Superman story, just like Clark, just like Lex. That's the way the show was set up by its creators.

Al and Miles have said that the Clark, Lana, Lex triangle is the one they've been waiting to do since the show started. But they had to wait until everyone was "legal." So, I guess, here we go. More Lexana to come.

[margroks]

Let's put it this way. Why must Lex be shown as thinking the only way he can have a normal life and be a good person is to have the love of Lana? Is it because the writers chose a character we're familiar with to make it more interesting or give us something to invest in? Was Lana dying the worst thing, the only thing that would make Lex crack and decide to follow the path of darkness and therefore the best thing to use in this ep?

I can understand wanting to use a familiar character to make a point but was it the best thing for the plot? Wouldn't the death of a child be worse? No parent wants to see a child die before them, particularly when they could have been saved by someone if that someone had only lifted a well manicured finger.

But that wasn't used. It was Lana and that makes it seem that the plot and the best execution of it took second place just so we could see Lex doting on Lana. There were some cute moments, and Lex was hilarious when he awoke and saw Lana beside him then her very pregnant stomach, don't get me wrong but in the end, the story might have been better served in some other way just as other plots in other episodes suffered from the same problem.

When men all over the universe and some women, all inexplicably fall for Lana Lang it does begin to seem redundant and ill serves the show's premise. Especially when they have to utter the inevitable line, "I've always loved you, it's always been you, you're the only girl I ever really loved," or something to that effect, especially when in contradiction to previously shown canon.

[SmallvilleMan]

Lex only loves one person and that's Lana. So why is his dream going to show someone else who he doesn't love die? Makes no sense, Lana is the only one he loves and when she dies, he gives up on it. Makes perfect sense.

[smallville_fetish]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
This question actually puzzles me. I would never expect anyone to ask why everything revolves around Clark, or why everything revolves around Lex. Lana's character is in the center of this version of the Superman story, just like Clark, just like Lex. That's the way the show was set up by its creators.


Yes to that. Her character has been there since season 1 as well as Clark and Lex. She's in it with the main 3, why? Because they decided so, so whether you get over it or not, she's in it and a big part of Smallville and that's not gonna change.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Hang on, this is about to get all deep and literary.

The problem is that viewers want to look at Lana as a character. That's their first mistake. In Smallville, Lana is not so much a character as she is a plot device, a catalyst to spur on the story and a representation of two men's desires.

To Clark she represents a normal life. She symbolizes what he wants to be. Like him, she is an orphan, living without her parents, her life broken and reshaped by the events of the meteor shower. She has no apparent superpowers, but no crippling weaknesses either. Her life parallels Clarks, but is substantially different because she is human. As Clark said in the Pilot, he'd "give anything to be normal".

Tied to this is the element of the unattainable. This point is so belabored by the writers that she wore a kryptonite necklace. She was physically inaccessible to him, radiating death. Originally she was the Princess on an ivory tower - the cheerleader freshman who dated the Senior football hero. Despite all his powers, Clark couldn't compete, and it wasn't unitl Whitney left that Clark had a real shot with the girl. Even after five years of a tumultuous relationship, Clark still cannot have the open, honest relationship he wants to have with Lana.

For Clark, she is the reason he shuns his powers. She is the reason he's content to stay in Smallville. She is the object of his affections, the center of his decision making, the lynch pin holding him in place. In some ways she has helped his progress, constantly being in need of rescue, thus allowing him to develop his powers. In other ways, she is the main thing holding him back, keeping him content with mediocrity. Ultimately, as Clark leaves Lana and Smallville behind, he will become Superman.

The same applies to Lex. To Lex, she represents a myriad of things. With her dark hair, she fits his profile of women in whom he sees his Mother. He himself has told her that she refreshes him with her purity and innocence, and that this has influenced his dealings with her since the beginning of the series. She is yet another peice of Clark Kents life which Lex so obssessively wants to be his own. Perhaps by winning the heart of Clarks own love, he might see in himself a peice of Clark. Like Clark, Lex's current place in his journey to destiny is held by Lana Lang. His pursuit of Lana has led him to some underhanded dealings, such as firing Jason and subtle sabotage of the Clana relationship. She has helped him to maintain his tenuous hold on human decency, genuine affection. Finally, in Lexmas, we see that his feelings towards her also play a part in his downward spiral into cruelty and evil, as he forgoes a life of happiness with her in a bid to save her life.

The only real problem with Lana is that the writers haven't played her well as their trump card. As a plot device and archetype, she has been used perfectly, but because they play this device as a central character, viewers expect her to be written as such. She's not. She's a means to an end, with her own character development as important as character development would be to Kryptonite, the stones from last season, or the FOS now. She is not a character, she is but another form of the deus ex machina so loved by SV's writers. They plac her whereever they need her, knowing that she will play her role and move things along.

Now, as both men begin to embrace their respective destinies, it is only natural that Lana would be deeply involved in it all. Like the Kryptonite that gives a meteor freak it's powers or the ship that brought baby Clark to Earth, she is but a vehicle to keep things moving. Stop thinking of her as a character, then it all makes perfect sense.


Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Perhaps by winning the heart of Clarks own love, he might see in himself a peice of Clark. Holy cow, I didn't realize how homosexual this sounded until after I posted it!:rotfl: Clexy HoYay... it's inescapable, isn't it?

[SmallvilleMan]

Despite all his powers, Clark couldn't compete, and it wasn't unitl Whitney left that Clark had a real shot with the girl. Even after five years of a tumultuous relationship, Clark still cannot have the open, honest relationship he wants to have with Lana.

Couldn't compete? Clark could have had Lana any time after their almost kiss in season 1. He was just being respectful to Whitney.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Hang on, this is about to get all deep and literary.

The problem is that viewers want to look at Lana as a character. That's their first mistake. In Smallville, Lana is not so much a character as she is a plot device, a catalyst to spur on the story and a representation of two men's desires.
I never look at Lana as a plot device. You just have to see the character that the writers have given her. She's not supposed to be the perfect pink princess. I mean, the first real conversation Clark has with Lana is in a cemetery. She has her good points, no doubt, but she definitely has a dark side. All three characters have a dark side that drives them. I agree they haven't given her the greatest plot lines, but to say she's only a plot device, to me, is mising what there is to see.

[spreedom]

Umm, Lana and Clark are the stars of the show.. that's like asking why every story has to revolve around Clark and Lex...

[smallville_fetish]

Did you just quote yourself MyOwnSuperhero? I wonder if that's a first.. I get the gist of your exposition whateve, but it would be sloppily and poorly done if their original intension were to have Lana be a "vehicle" because they didn't make her purposely, the 'object of desire', we've seen this through their forceful attempt to give her traits and faults and whatever problems we're suppose to sympathize with. Yeah Clark sees her as a symbolic hope to be normal but that doesn't make her a piece of Kryptonite. I have no idea what I'm trying to convey, bare with me, but since the words 'object of desire' was thrown in, heeereeee weee goo again with all this theory and analyzing junk, I know this gets deeper than what's on the surface of 'everybody loves miss Lang' and there might or might not be a mistake for this but it's been discussed too many times and it always strays too much into depth, maybe more so than it should be. If TPTB love Lana that much, they wouldn't have abused her character purposely as just some plot device; yeah she connects to both Lex and Clark while having a lot of influence on their destiny, without her they wouldn't be the same like how Lana wouldn't be the same without Clark/Lex, so they all are dependant on each other, not just entirely dependant on Lana-the plot device. She is just as much as a character as Clark and Lex, not as big, but even if she's there only for Clark- isn't everyone? I don't suppose Clark's parents are only Clark's vehicle because they influence him, and are a part of his life. Everyone is equally below Clark and Lex, the creators of Smallville just happen to favor Lana and that's why she gets more attention than she's suppose to have.

[jimmyolsenblues]

I think they are using Lana for 2 reasons, one hoping for the fight over her between Clark and Lex, and two they are using her for eye candy hoping for ratings. I really like this episode and we some great acting from Michael R.

[SmallvilleMan]

but she definitely has a dark side. All three characters have a dark side that drives them. I agree they haven't given her the greatest plot lines, but to say she's only a plot device, to me, is mising what there is to see.

I don't see how Lana has a dark side, same for Clark. Even Clark's bad alter ego isn't all that dark, he's just a tough guy, horny teenager.

[margroks]

And that is the point. She is the ultimate deus ex-machina, super plot device and fetish. A thing used to further the plot when the writers are too lazy to make her interesing and real, never bothering to make her fit in an organic way. The producers have said as much.

Making her the reason for the hero and the villan to be the way they are is a disservice to both, putting her in a position of importance that removes their self determination. Instead of this being about Clark and Lex and their respective destinies and how they each embrace or refuse to be good or evil, Lana takes that choice away. Superman should make that choice himself as should Lex and having it devolve into a a jelousy issue involving a lackluster character, at that, makes it little better than Dawson's Creek.

That negates the initial premise, that the show was to be about Clark and Lex and the choices they make due to their upbringing and instead makes it all about a vapid little girl. Clark should choose his path because of the way he was raised and not because of Lana or anyone else.

And yes, from the beginning we've seen Clark's obliviousness to Lana's dark, selfish side and that will certainly have to be made clear so that even the BDA can see she's not worthy of the pedestal everyone puts her on. It will hopefully be Clark's realization that he has to read people better and never allow a person like Alicia or Lana to pull the wool over his eyes again.

Clark's self doubt and reluctance to accept his own true nature has made him vulnerable to people like that, thinking, like Pinnochio, he can be a real human boy if only he finds a girl who'll treat him like a normal guy. Lana IS the inexplicable heart of his Pinnochio fantasy and if he is to become a real man he'll have to get over her by realizing she's not the real thing after all.

Miller & Gough promised us more than this so naturally it's disappointing when this is the best we get.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I don't see how Lana has a dark side, same for Clark. Even Clark's bad alter ego isn't all that dark, he's just a tough guy, horny teenager.
When I say dark, I don't mean evil. I mean dark, somber, not necessarily nicey nicey and bright. The first time Lana and Clark have a real conversation is in a cemetery because Lana is speaking w/ her dead parents. She wears a piece of the meteor that killed them. That's very dark. She herself has told Clark that she's afraid he'll find out she's not as nice as he thinks she is. The Isobel story is a dark story, and even though it's a possession, it's akin to Red Clark or Kal-El. Just some examples.

Clark's dark sides are Red Clark -- who he admits is a real part of him -- and Kal-El. Both of these incarnations are dangerous people, not just "horny teenagers." Rewatch Red and look at Clark near the end after he's been wearing that ring for a while. Look at him at the beginning of Crusade. And as for Kal-El, he seems to have no feelings at all.


Originally posted by margroks
And yes, from the beginning we've seen Clark's obliviousness to Lana's dark, selfish side and that will certainly have to be made clear so that even the BDA can see she's not worthy of the pedestal everyone puts her on. It will hopefully be Clark's realization that he has to read people better and never allow a person like Alicia or Lana to pull the wool over his eyes again.
The only person I see putting Lana on a pedestal is Clark. Lex always gives her a hard time. Chloe is her friend, but she hardly idolizes her. Henry Small dumps her. Adam uses her to get information for Lionel. Jason uses her to get the stones. (Granted, the FOTW seem to be drawn to Lana, but I've always thought that's because she wore that piece of meteor for all those years, so she has some kind of attraction for them. ;) )

And as for Clark, he loves her. I've said it before, love is not a matter of logic or what makes sense. It just is. So maybe he'll fall out of love with her this season or at some point. But to say someone doesn't deserve to be loved is just counter to human nature. Doesn't work that way. :)

[mosespeach]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Hang on, this is about to get all deep and literary.

The problem is that viewers want to look at Lana as a character. That's their first mistake. In Smallville, Lana is not so much a character as she is a plot device, a catalyst to spur on the story and a representation of two men's desires.

To Clark she represents a normal life. She symbolizes what he wants to be. Like him, she is an orphan, living without her parents, her life broken and reshaped by the events of the meteor shower. She has no apparent superpowers, but no crippling weaknesses either. Her life parallels Clarks, but is substantially different because she is human. As Clark said in the Pilot, he'd "give anything to be normal".

Tied to this is the element of the unattainable. This point is so belabored by the writers that she wore a kryptonite necklace. She was physically inaccessible to him, radiating death. Originally she was the Princess on an ivory tower - the cheerleader freshman who dated the Senior football hero. Despite all his powers, Clark couldn't compete, and it wasn't unitl Whitney left that Clark had a real shot with the girl. Even after five years of a tumultuous relationship, Clark still cannot have the open, honest relationship he wants to have with Lana.

For Clark, she is the reason he shuns his powers. She is the reason he's content to stay in Smallville. She is the object of his affections, the center of his decision making, the lynch pin holding him in place. In some ways she has helped his progress, constantly being in need of rescue, thus allowing him to develop his powers. In other ways, she is the main thing holding him back, keeping him content with mediocrity. Ultimately, as Clark leaves Lana and Smallville behind, he will become Superman.

The same applies to Lex. To Lex, she represents a myriad of things. With her dark hair, she fits his profile of women in whom he sees his Mother. He himself has told her that she refreshes him with her purity and innocence, and that this has influenced his dealings with her since the beginning of the series. She is yet another peice of Clark Kents life which Lex so obssessively wants to be his own. Perhaps by winning the heart of Clarks own love, he might see in himself a peice of Clark. Like Clark, Lex's current place in his journey to destiny is held by Lana Lang. His pursuit of Lana has led him to some underhanded dealings, such as firing Jason and subtle sabotage of the Clana relationship. She has helped him to maintain his tenuous hold on human decency, genuine affection. Finally, in Lexmas, we see that his feelings towards her also play a part in his downward spiral into cruelty and evil, as he forgoes a life of happiness with her in a bid to save her life.

The only real problem with Lana is that the writers haven't played her well as their trump card. As a plot device and archetype, she has been used perfectly, but because they play this device as a central character, viewers expect her to be written as such. She's not. She's a means to an end, with her own character development as important as character development would be to Kryptonite, the stones from last season, or the FOS now. She is not a character, she is but another form of the deus ex machina so loved by SV's writers. They plac her whereever they need her, knowing that she will play her role and move things along.

Now, as both men begin to embrace their respective destinies, it is only natural that Lana would be deeply involved in it all. Like the Kryptonite that gives a meteor freak it's powers or the ship that brought baby Clark to Earth, she is but a vehicle to keep things moving. Stop thinking of her as a character, then it all makes perfect sense.


What an amazing post. Very insightful.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
For Clark, she is the reason he shuns his powers. She is the reason he's content to stay in Smallville. She is the object of his affections, the center of his decision making, the lynch pin holding him in place. In some ways she has helped his progress, constantly being in need of rescue, thus allowing him to develop his powers. In other ways, she is the main thing holding him back, keeping him content with mediocrity. Ultimately, as Clark leaves Lana and Smallville behind, he will become Superman.
I guess I think she can be all those things you say and still be a character. All the characters represent concepts to the other characters. You could say that Clark represents for Lex the other life that he could have, the hopes of his mother, as shown in Lexmas. I don't think that because a character's role in another character's life can be described in conceptual terms, it means the character is only a device and nothing more.

[margroks]

In the dream she was definitely on the pedestal representing the perfect wife and life.

[Watching Smallville]

But that's the dream. Everything in that dream was idealized. Look how Jonathan treated him. "To Lex Luthor. The best man I know."

Gotta go to work. Great discussion.

[SmallvilleMan]

And yes, from the beginning we've seen Clark's obliviousness to Lana's dark, selfish side and that will certainly have to be made clear so that even the BDA can see she's not worthy of the pedestal everyone puts her on. It will hopefully be Clark's realization that he has to read people better and never allow a person like Alicia or Lana to pull the wool over his eyes again.

Oh please, Lana isn't anymore selfish than Clark or chloe or dark.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I never look at Lana as a plot device. You just have to see the character that the writers have given her. She's not supposed to be the perfect pink princess. I mean, the first real conversation Clark has with Lana is in a cemetery. She has her good points, no doubt, but she definitely has a dark side. All three characters have a dark side that drives them. I agree they haven't given her the greatest plot lines, but to say she's only a plot device, to me, is mising what there is to see. To begin with, I said that Lana is more of a plot device than a character. To clarify, I think that she is more important in that role, and that the writers have failed to develop a satisfactory character for her because of her role.

Don't assume that charcters and plot devices are mutually exclusive. All of the characters tend to be both, serving not only as characters, but also playing as mechanisms for the story, archetypes that support the over all story. Clark is the 'Hero', Lex is his 'Foil' (a point that they drove home back in season 1) a parallel character that contrasts against the Hero. Jonathan and Martha fulfill the role of Guide or Sage. Chloe has played the expository Chorus since the Pilot. See? All of the characters double as mechanisms to make the story work.

The issue with Lana is that her role as a plt device has repeatedly been placed before her role as a character. For this reason, she has been both the miserable failure of a coffee house waitress and the successful manager of a coffee house, all in the same season. She broke her leg in season three, only to run cross country a few episodes later. She has been shipped off to Paris, possessed by witches, decided against college and gone to college at the last minute. She has been the damsel in distress more times than I can count. Why? It's simple - Lana is the tool that they pull out of the shed every episode. If they need a coffee shop, Lana can make it happen. Need a tie to the stones that will involve both Clark and Lex? Send Lana to Paris. Need to keep Clana going but keep them seperate most of the time? Send her to Met U. Are you seeing the pattern here?

I'm not saying that Lana is not a character, but that her role as a character has always been more secondary to her role as plot device. TPTB have even admitted that they are always trying to find something for Lana to do.

Even Lana's 'dark side' plays into this. In the beginning of the series, TPTB surrounded her character with death - dead parents, a deadly Kryptonite necklace and yes, her first conversation with Clark is in a cemetary, before the graves of her dead parents. Lana's darkness is one of the reasons that she is unattainable, and makes her role as the 'Holy Grail' all the more ironic, just like Lex's friendship with Clark, Chloe's pining for Clark, Clark's desires for normalcy, etc. Does it also give her character some depth? Yes, it does. Does that discount her role as a device? Not in the least bit.

That being said, it only makes sense that Lana would be at the heart of Lex's dream, the object of his desires and a catalyst to his dark turn. That's exactly what Lana does - she represents desires, symbolizes the unattainable and as such motivates the Hero and the Villian.


Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Couldn't compete? Clark could have had Lana any time after their almost kiss in season 1. He was just being respectful to Whitney. But, because of Whitney, and a myriad of other factors beyond his control, he and Lana still didn't have that relationship. That's what I was saying. Not that she wasn't attracted to him, not that she doesn't have feelings for him. The important thing is that she is still the unattainable for him.

Even now, while in a relationship with her, Clark is prevented from having the relationship he wants to have with her. He is still dishonest, and there is a growing sense of mutual distrust. After five seasons of Clana angst, it should be obvious. Clark will never really have that relationship with her. He never has and never will. Only with Lois.

Again, this reinforces the whole 'Lana as plot device' concept; which effects Lex's progression just as much as Clark's. Just as Clark will never truely have her, neither will Lex. The pursuit, however, is essential in their growth. Thus, yes, everything does revolve around Lana, but as a plot device rather than her character.

[margroks]

The producers have said flat out that she's a thing, the unattainable object, though they forgot that when attained she lost even that supposed luster.

I would have to disagree as to her selfishness. She's shown time and again that she's only nice until you cross her and then she'll ignore anything you've ever done that was helpful or good and berate you for not agreeing with her (Hug, for instance). She demands constant attention from her boyfriends, going to other guys (Clark) when she doesn't get what she considers her just due even when that lack of attention is a result of her BF's dad about to die (late season one). Now that's selfish with a capital S and this willingness to cheat on BF's is a very unpleasant trait. Plus, and this is important, Lana rarely ever has to pay for her mistakes or selfishness. She gets away with them. That's a pitiful excuse for a true heroine, worthy of a hero's love.

Clark's certainly close in the selfishness department with his whining about wanting to be normal, at times, early in the season seeming to care more for being with Lana (again with no good reason we've seen because she is an object) than accepting his gifts and all the good he can do with them. That is, after all, how this mess which will result in someone dying got started. Chloe tried to tell him it wasn't a good idea to accept that state of affairs be he wouldn't listen.

There are many directions TPTB could have taken this show and kept it in line with what they originally stated was the premise but they use Lana as a crutch when they get lazy, using her to excess and thinking we won't notice. They've shown us they can be more creative than that but all too often they fall back on this lame plot device.

[GhostRider]

How the hell can people take an episode that was all about Lex and claim that it was all about Lana is beyond me. As many have already pointed out Lana was merely a symbol, her function could have been done by anyone however Lana made the most sense giving the hints at Lex's feelings for her and the fact that she's the female lead.

Lana merely symbolized an idilliac life that Lex desires, a parallel to Clark. Lex had a loving wife, kids, friends, and the acceptance of the community espeically JK. It wasn't Lana's death in this dream life that turns him evil, but his inability to stop it, his lack of control.

As for Lana, I would like someone to explain to me what she did bad in this episode. She was loving both to Clark in reality and Lex in the dream. There was no angst on her part whatsoever.

[attitudejc]

just a reminder for EVERYONE, there is no "my way or the highway". EVERYONE is intitled to there own opinion.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by margroks
The producers have said flat out that she's a thing
When did they say that? I've listened to all the commentary, and that never comes across. Was it in an article somewhere?


Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
To begin with, I said that Lana is more of a plot device than a character. To clarify, I think that she is more important in that role, and that the writers have failed to develop a satisfactory character for her because of her role.

Don't assume that charcters and plot devices are mutually exclusive. All of the characters tend to be both, serving not only as characters, but also playing as mechanisms for the story, archetypes that support the over all story.
I completely agree -- which is what I posted above.


Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
The issue with Lana is that her role as a plt device has repeatedly been placed before her role as a character. For this reason, she has been both the miserable failure of a coffee house waitress and the successful manager of a coffee house, all in the same season. She broke her leg in season three, only to run cross country a few episodes later. She has been shipped off to Paris, possessed by witches, decided against college and gone to college at the last minute. She has been the damsel in distress more times than I can count. Why? It's simple - Lana is the tool that they pull out of the shed every episode. If they need a coffee shop, Lana can make it happen. Need a tie to the stones that will involve both Clark and Lex? Send Lana to Paris. Need to keep Clana going but keep them seperate most of the time? Send her to Met U. Are you seeing the pattern here?
I'm seeing your pattern if I look at it from your point of view. But looking at it from my point of view -- and just to be clear, I'm not someone who thinks Lana is a wonderful person, but I do appreciate her as a part of the trio of main characters -- I see this all as part of her character development.

TPTB said in the commentary that the reason for the Talon was to give Lana her own place. Clark had the loft, Lex had the mansion, even Chloe had the Torch, so they gave Lana the Talon. They didn't need a coffee house, they needed a locale for Lana.

Miracle healing happens to everyone on this show, so I don't think we can focus on that. How many times has Jonathan, with his heart condition, been hurled across a room 40 feet only to pick himself up and start building a house?

Going to Paris is Lana trying to pull herself away from Clark and away from a pretty bad year. She didn't need to go to Paris to meet Jason or to get involved w/ a witch story. I always thought that plot line was a nod to Sabrina, since everyone on the set says KK reminds them of Audrey Hepburn. She goes to Paris, she comes back a little more grown up.

I think discussing Lana is like discussing Chlark in Lexmas. It's possible to see whatever you want to see. And there's a reasonable argument to be made on both sides. So I guess this is one of those agree to disagree scenarios. :D

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
When did they say that? I've listened to all the commentary, and that never comes across. Was it in an article somewhere?

Greg Beeman said in an interview that part of Lana's function was to serve as an object of desire. Which is true, Lois serves that same function in the Superman story. It's something in most hero stories. MJ does it in Spiderman. Lana haters for some reason don't get it. Beeman also said that he doesn't get the hatred for Lana and I feel the same way.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by attitudejc
just a reminder for EVERYONE, there is no "my way or the highway". EVERYONE is intitled to there own opinion.



Oh if that were only true. Mods here seem to have a happy trigger when a Lana fan strays from thread topic or the board rules, but posters such as Margoks can go on and on and on about why she thinks Lana sucks without any consequence.

Consider: how is her long exposition on why Lana is selfish related to the topic of this thread.

[smallville_fetish]

Originally posted by margroks
The producers have said flat out that she's a thing, the unattainable object.
Where is this at? Object of desire.. Object=thing? Only if 'it' doesn't breath.. 'thing' is a harsh word, I beg a differ.


I would have to disagree as to her selfishness. She's shown time and again that she's only nice until you cross her and then she'll ignore anything you've ever done that was helpful or good and berate you for not agreeing with her (Hug, for instance). She demands constant attention from her boyfriends, going to other guys (Clark) when she doesn't get what she considers her just due even when that lack of attention is a result of her BF's dad about to die (late season one). Now that's selfish with a capital S and this willingness to cheat on BF's is a very unpleasant trait. Plus, and this is important, Lana rarely ever has to pay for her mistakes or selfishness. She gets away with them. That's a pitiful excuse for a true heroine, worthy of a hero's love.

With MyOwnSuperhero more objective analysis I could make logic of what he said but what you've said about Lana is just pure bias. Her being selfish? More opinion than evidence is what I see. More Lana bashing? Whatever it is, it's not the reason that makes her a 'pitiful' plot device.. it's just more bashing.


Lana rarely ever has to pay for her mistakes or selfishness. She gets away with them.
If you've been watching the show, she has paid for them. And if she hasn't paid for 'cheating on her bf' who's mother tried to kill her, then okay so what if she hasn't. Look at Lex and how he's thousand times more selfish than Lana, and has gotten away from everything more so than Lana ever will.


Clark's certainly close in the selfishness department with his whining about wanting to be normal, at times, early in the season seeming to care more for being with Lana
Haha he is a whinny little twit. But if Lana wasn't in his life, he's seen all the freaks and what people call them,he'd still want to be normal, but definitely not to this extent.


They've shown us they can be more creative than that but all too often they fall back on this lame plot device.
Let's see them finish it then.. even so when it's all done, haters will still be bickering and bashing years to come.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by GhostRider
Greg Beeman said in an interview that part of Lana's function was to serve as an object of desire. Which is true, Lois serves that same function in the Superman story. It's something in most hero stories. MJ does it in Spiderman. Lana haters for some reason don't get it. Beeman also said that he doesn't get the hatred for Lana and I feel the same way.
Okay. That's a little different from calling her a "thing." I guess it's like saying Lex is a supervillain to give Clark a foil.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by GhostRider
Greg Beeman said in an interview that part of Lana's function was to serve as an object of desire. Which is true, Lois serves that same function in the Superman story. It's something in most hero stories. MJ does it in Spiderman. Lana haters for some reason don't get it. Beeman also said that he doesn't get the hatred for Lana and I feel the same way.



I agree.

If the haters want to characterize and dehumanize her by calling her merely an "object of desire", why can't they also acknowledge that Clark is the "Hero", Lex is the "Villain" and their beloved Chloe is the "Loyal Sidekick".

[TKFlash]

You guys are so right, why does everything have to revolve around Lana. I am so tired of that.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Originally posted by margroks
And that is the point. She is the ultimate deus ex-machina, super plot device and fetish. A thing used to further the plot when the writers are too lazy to make her interesing and real, never bothering to make her fit in an organic way. The producers have said as much.

Making her the reason for the hero and the villan to be the way they are is a disservice to both, putting her in a position of importance that removes their self determination. Instead of this being about Clark and Lex and their respective destinies and how they each embrace or refuse to be good or evil, Lana takes that choice away. Superman should make that choice himself as should Lex and having it devolve into a a jelousy issue involving a lackluster character, at that, makes it little better than Dawson's Creek.

That negates the initial premise, that the show was to be about Clark and Lex and the choices they make due to their upbringing and instead makes it all about a vapid little girl. Clark should choose his path because of the way he was raised and not because of Lana or anyone else. Now, as a die hard Chlarker, I have no special love for Lana. Some points I agree with - Lana's character has often been sacrificed for her role as a plot device (LAPD - Lana As Plot Device), and it has occassionally been done in a sloppy way, evidence of half hearted writing.

However, I'll have to disagree on the point that Lana removes the ability for Clark and lex to choose in their paths to destiny. If lexmas showed us anything, it was that they can very much choose, and Lana is merely an element that influences those choices. Blaming the Rift on Lana is premature and fails to account for a lot. Was Lana the reason that Clark and Lex had differences in 'Bound'? Did she prompt Lex to investigate Clark for three years? Clark and Lex have a myriad of issues pulling them in seperate directions, and even if Lana is the straw that breaks the camel's back, it's unrealistic to blame it all on her.

No matter how involved Lana is in the story, Clark and Lex make their own decisions. It's not 'all about a vapid little girl' any more than it is all about Kryptonite. She is an element of the story, and though she is a big element, she is not the story.


Originally posted by GhostRider
Greg Beeman said in an interview that part of Lana's function was to serve as an object of desire. Which is true, Lois serves that same function in the Superman story. It's something in most hero stories. MJ does it in Spiderman. Lana haters for some reason don't get it. Beeman also said that he doesn't get the hatred for Lana and I feel the same way. Exactly my point. I don't even see anything wrong with that. My only gripe is that the writers usually emphasize the role more than the character. I don't espescially care for Lana, and I'm no fan of Clana, but the Lana hate often seems to be unfounded or at least not thought out.

[attitudejc]

Originally posted by PeteM
Oh if that were only true. Mods here seem to have a happy trigger when a Lana fan strays from thread topic or the board rules, but posters such as Margoks can go on and on and on about why she thinks Lana sucks without any consequence.

Consider: how is her long exposition on why Lana is selfish related to the topic of this thread.

its not! and i am in no way trying to argue or anything. but, in situations like this, it is kinda difficult to keep on this exact topic, when her selfishness is somehow related. How? i dunno, its just all on how people individually look at the show and expresses there opinion, and i think people should respect that. i wasn't referring to you, just everyone in gereral.

and now i am going off topic, soooo im just gonna stop now, and keep going my posts. :D

[SmallvilleMan]

but the Lana hate often seems to be unfounded or at least not thought out.

You can say that again.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Lex only loves one person and that's Lana. So why is his dream going to show someone else who he doesn't love die? Makes no sense, Lana is the only one he loves and when she dies, he gives up on it. Makes perfect sense.

I think it would have been more powerful if the little baby girl died too. So he doesn't just lose one he loses two. I just think it's more powerful to lost mother and child then just the mother.

And don't give me that junk about his love for his kids are nothing conpared to his love of Lana, because just think about the scene when he got to see his little girl for the first time. So happy, the way he thanked Lana, the way he spoke, he was in love with that child. At least that's how I see it.

[kryptonitte]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
[B]To begin with, I said that Lana is more of a plot device than a character. To clarify, I think that she is more important in that role, and that the writers have failed to develop a satisfactory character for her because of her role.

Don't assume that charcters and plot devices are mutually exclusive. All of the characters tend to be both, serving not only as characters, but also playing as mechanisms for the story, archetypes that support the over all story. Clark is the 'Hero', Lex is his 'Foil' (a point that they drove home back in season 1) a parallel character that contrasts against the Hero. Jonathan and Martha fulfill the role of Guide or Sage. Chloe has played the expository Chorus since the Pilot. See? All of the characters double as mechanisms to make the story work.

I totally agree with this. I can only say for myself being not fond of Lana this is the main reason why. See I go back and forth on this but if the writers did better with the character as a whole than just a plot device I think more would like the character. Since she has been used more a plot device that is why certain people hate her since I think they feel that she is taking up valid time to learn more of either the Kryptonian heritage or Lex's crackin up sessions. I can really only talk for me and in Lexmas I liked her character better than say when she became a witch or even worse a vampire. In these episodes too much time is taken up trying to give her a more valid role but for me always fails since the main story really is Clark and Lex. Her character works better for me as the unattainable love so in Season one when Clark is more falling over her from afar I really enjoyed Lana...but when they were actually dating I lost interest in the character. So even though it is good to make her grow more than they seem too, She is a better character when in episodes it shows her more as this unattainable love of both Clark and Lex and the final moving on per se. In this sense most can all relate to Clark/Lex because for all there was an unattainable love that was left in that small town somewhere and when one goes back they still care for that person but you can see how both people have either moved out or stayed and usually start a family. This creates a world were the viewer can relate to the story even if it is about an alien with awesome powers and the spoiled sick rich kid gone bad.

[margroks]

An object is a thing rather than a well rounded person or character. And yes, had the writers actually gone to the trouble of giving her a likeable personality instead of using her as their one dimensional foil perhaps more viewers would actually care about her. Why couldn't they do both? Granted, it would be difficult since they'd have to do a lot of inventing to improve over the not very nice Comics Lana but hey...they're professional writers and producers! Isn't it their job to be creative like that?

Clark, Lex, the randon FOTW may make choices but too many of them revolve around Lana Lang. That Lex could have had any wife in his dream but it was Lana does indeed smell of what I described earlier. It was indeed a Lex-centric episode but, as I mentioned earlier, why was it Lana that had to die instead of a child? I mean, besides the absolutely inherent lameness of a woman who was tough enough to endure being possessed by a centuries old witch and kicking ass previously when someone tried to hurt her, dying after childbirth? It smells too suspiciously of the same old tactics used for four straight years. The writers have always used Lana instead of doing something more innovative and interesting.

If Lana Lang didn't exist Clark Kent should still be capable of making the choices that lead him to his detiny. Because of his upbringing. Lex, too, should be able to make his choice to be good or evil without leaning on that excuse, flawed logic to be sure. Lots of people lose someone they love and still they don't choose to become a criminal mastermind, anyway but it being Lana looks suspiciously like the same old, same old. Perhaps I do view the situation in a somewhat jaundiced light but I have plenty of reason.

That's Margroks, by the way. I'd appreciate not being characterized as a "hater" of any kind because I disagree with someone. There were some great moments in this episode but I know I'm not the only viewer who questioned why the writers chose to place Lana in the pivotal position of tipping Lex over to the dark side.

It's not like Lex hasn't always been willing to be a bit shady even when his goal was genuinely doing something good. That he would gradually slide into darkness was to be expected, especially after his not quite reintegration in Onyx. But they had to pick a moment in which he supposedly went over instead of letting him continue the more reasonable downward progression and not unexpectedly, it had to involve Lana Lang. It seems to me this was the lightswitch moment that writers and producers and MR himself said wouldn't happen. Now, Lex is Teh Ebil because of a dream, no less, not even a real event.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by kryptonitte
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
[B]I totally agree with this. I can only say for myself being not fond of Lana this is the main reason why. See I go back and forth on this but if the writers did better with the character as a whole than just a plot device I think more would like the character.
Well, the Lana fans are probably going to get mad at me, but I'm still going to defend Lana by saying -- yeah, she's got a lot of traits that aren't that likable. For me, that's what makes the girl interesting. And, if you think about it, that's what makes her a character who's more than a plot device.

For example, she hates meteor freaks. Understadable, because they give her a lot of grief, but she has no sympathy for them at all. She's afraid of them, no sympathy. That's part of her character -- you hurt me, you're the enemy. Adam turns against her, she goes to Lex and says, "Get rid of him." She knows Lex's character. She knows what she's doing. No sympathy.

And this is consistent throughout. When Martha was possessed in Spirit, she said nasty things to both Lois and Lana. Lois says, "Have you been in the cooking sherry?" Lana says, "I don't have to listen to this." She goes into defensive mode, not even thinking, "This isn't Martha, Martha's the sweetest person in the world." And that costs her.

She has abandonment issues. Also understandable. Her parents died. Whitney's gone. Nell probably was a reluctant mother, and now she's gone. Henry's gone. What does that mean? It means she looks for guarantees in relationships. She has that "I want total honesty thing" that's completely unrealistic, and that costs her.

She's brave. She confronts Zod's people, and whether she knew their weakness or not, she did it. That was brave. She uses her martial arts skill whenver she needs to. She's actually very aggressive when threatened. And this goes for the way she talks to people, too. She'll tell off someone, no matter who, if she thinks they deserve it. And sometimes, that costs her.

She has a strong moral sense. That's consistent with what I've said above. She has a strong idea of what's right and what's wrong, no ambiguity, and that's both a good thing and a bad thing. She can be helpful, and supportive, and she can see the right thing to do in a situation and try to do it. But she can also be self-righteous. But it's consistent. Examples, quitting cheerleading because the football players were cheating. Trying to help Adam. Feeling bad about dating Clark because of Chloe.

Not that she doesn't have double standards, because sometimes she does. When she's threatened, everything goes out the window. She hits back at the rival coffe shop. She steals medical records to take to Lex. I think that's the core of her nature. She protects herself. And this is probably what Clark knows, and why he's so afraid to tell her the truth.

So to say the girl doesn't have a well-developed character doesn't ring true to me. To say TPTB don't use the character they've developed as well as they could to further story line, that I agree with. Someone had a great suggestion about how to use Lana's character to develop the breakup with Clark, but TPTB probably won't use it. I won't deny the writers seem to go off the island when developing stories for Lana, but to my way of thinking, her character has been developed, and is constent throughout the seasons.

Wow, this was long. And I'm not sure it relates to the thread, but I just have a different take. I think she's a character just like Clark and Lex. And that's why she's in the center of things as much as Clark and Lex are.

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
For example, she hates meteor freaks. Understadable, because they give her a lot of grief, but she has no sympathy for them at all. She's afraid of them, no sympathy. That's part of her character -- you hurt me, you're the enemy. Adam turns against her, she goes to Lex and says, "Get rid of him." She knows Lex's character. She knows what she's doing. No sympathy.

This isn't true, Lana doesn't hate meteor freaks. This is a myth. In Extinction Lana wasn't sympathetic for the one who got shot while he was trying to drown her. Who can blame her for that? In the end of the episode she told Clark it would be OK if he were effected by the meteors. She even said that she found it comforting thinking he was bulletproof. In fact if I recall correctly, Lana has never even refered to them as "freaks" which Chloe and Clark commonly do.

As for Adam, he wasn't a meteor freak. Lana told Lex that she wanted him gone after he phycically threatened her. What's wrong with that? Why the heck would she feel any sympathey for him? She was doing what any person in their right mind would do.


And this is consistent throughout. When Martha was possessed in Spirit, she said nasty things to both Lois and Lana. Lois says, "Have you been in the cooking sherry?" Lana says, "I don't have to listen to this." She goes into defensive mode, not even thinking, "This isn't Martha, Martha's the sweetest person in the world." And that costs her.

This is also untrue. Martha (Dawn) didn't say anything nasty to Lois, she just implied that Lois had a relationship with Clark that they were keeping secret. However she railed into Lana basically accusing her of being snobby. Lana didn't insult her back, she removed herself from the situation.

Lana has flaws but these are examples of them.

[margroks]

Lana claimed it would be okay if Clark were different only after Clark had assured her he wasn't one. So she could appear to be accepting and sympathetic when she wasn't at all. I'm not saying she doesn't have reason to dislike them but she's pretty clear about hating them. In fact, Van's mission to eliminate them was aptly characterized as "Smallville's own version of a hate crime and LAna condoned it.

Her tendency to turn on people and berate them without even thinking through whether it's justified or completely uncalled for is one of her very unpleasant traits. Yelling at Clark when he disagreed wioth her in Hug and saying he was only pretending to be Whitney's friend after all he did for both Whitney and her previously. And that would refer to her very nasty tendency to cheat on her boyfriends, another nasty trait. If that's the best they can do to flesh her out then more's the pity.

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by margroks
Lana claimed it would be okay if Clark were different only after Clark had assured her he wasn't one. So she could appear to be accepting and sympathetic when she wasn't at all. I'm not saying she doesn't have reason to dislike them but she's pretty clear about hating them. In fact, Van's mission to eliminate them was aptly characterized as "Smallville's own version of a hate crime and LAna condoned it.

That is of absolutely no consequence. When Van told Lana that Clark was a meteor freak Lana defended Clark. She told Van he was the freak and that Clark was more human than him. You must have missed that part. You must have also missed the part where she said she found it comforting thinking he was bullet proof, in other words she *liked* the idea he was a meteor freak with powers. Lana said she was fine with it because she was fine with it. You are accusing her of lying with nothing to back it up. Lana does NOT hate meteor freaks. That is simply fact. She doesn't like people who try to kill her. You need to separate the two.

As for Van, Lana thought that he killed the gill boy to save her, just like Clark has done in the past. She didn’t know that he was just assassinating them. When she found out she didn’t defend him, she told him to turn himself in.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Well, it looks like this thread has devolved back into a anti-Lana/pro-Lana back and forth. I've said my peice, so I'll be bowing out.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Well, it looks like this thread has devolved back into a anti-Lana/pro-Lana back and forth. I've said my peice, so I'll be bowing out.

Seems like it:\

[Magus]

anti and pro character threads will be closed eventually. well, actually, the topic of this thread is kinda anti-lana.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Well, it looks like this thread has devolved back into a anti-Lana/pro-Lana back and forth. I've said my peice, so I'll be bowing out.



Happens repeatedly.

I have already stated why.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by Magus
anti and pro character threads will be closed eventually. well, actually, the topic of this thread is kinda anti-lana.

You right but things don't aways have to turn into "well six years ago lana did this" "no you missing the point 8 years ago that did that". Why can this thread just stay on topic about and not go over everything Lana has done that could be good or bad, cuase you know guys there a thread for that, I could go find a link if need be.

[GhostRider]

Many of the threads here turn into Lana hater threads, even threads which have absolutely nothing to do with her. I have no problem with someone who doesn't like Lana but I will speak up when they make false claims which they commonly do. The totally false claim that Lana hates meteor freaks is a perfect example. It's totally bogus and there is ample evidence to the effect. She made it clear to Clark that she would be fine with him being one and the Lana haters make the silly claim that it doesn't matter because she said it after he told her he wasn't. Like the fact Lana knows Clark lies all the time doesn't matter. Like all the stuff she said before about him didn't matter. Like the fact she was fine with Bryon didn't matter.

In regards to this thread we now have Lana haters whining that everything revoles around Lana. As if using some random girl that we've never seen play the part of Lex's wife would make any sense at all. How would her death really effect Lex when he would have only just met her? Like it or not, we know that Lex has feelings for Lana it makes perfect sense that she played the part. I despise Lexana but I don't let it effect my objectivity.

When it comes to Lana haters Santa said it best, it's all b!tch, b!tch, b!tch.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by GhostRider
In regards to this thread we now have Lana haters whining that everything revoles around Lana. As if using some random girl that we've never seen play the part of Lex's wife would make any sense at all. How would her death really effect Lex when he would have only just met her? Like it or not, we know that Lex has feelings for Lana it makes perfect sense that she played the part. I despise Lexana but I don't let it effect my objectivity.


I agree, with that as much as I hate lexana, some random girl wouldn't have as much of a affect on Lex, since he doens't really know her.

I still think it would have been more powerful if the baby died too, thus he'd only have his son left in the way of family and he wasn't all that connected with his son as he was with the little girl.

I think the helpless of not being able to help your wife and child would have been so much more powerful and better; To think he couldn't save either of them would have been heart breaking. The death of the baby would throw him right back to Julian.

You know when I first thought of this dream idea, and knew something was going to have to make him turn away from his happy ever after I thought it was going to be a car crush, where he loses all three of them.

[GhostRider]

While it would have hurt him more if both his wife and infant daughter died I don't think that would have been a better way to go. The reason is because even though Lana died, she gave him both a son and daughter. Because of that Lex still had a lot to live for, a lot reasons to remain good. But it wasn’t enough, in his own words he wants it all and he decided he’ll do anything to get it. I think this is important, if Lex had lost them all as you propose than his choice seems somewhat justified.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by GhostRider
While it would have hurt him more if both his wife and infant daughter died I don't think that would have been a better way to go. The reason is because even though Lana died, she gave him both a son and daughter. Because of that Lex still had a lot to live for, a lot reasons to remain good. But it wasn’t enough, in his own words he wants it all and he decided he’ll do anything to get it. I think this is important, if Lex had lost them all as you propose than his choice seems somewhat justified.

I think still having his son, friends and that would have still have been enough to be good for, Your right nothing was enough but all of it for Lex.

Your right about if Lex would have lost them all he'd have been more justified; that was just one of my ideas about now things could play out before I wanted the episode.

[GhostRider]

What was telling was that the last thing Lana asked of him was not to change. And his mother was telling him to follow his heart and give up his ambition. These are the women he loves and he chooses to ignore them both. What makes him evil isn't that he decides he wants money and power, it's that he decides he'll do anything to get them. So we see him choosing to defame JK. And it's obvious that he'll never be satisfied no matter how wealthly or powerful he becomes.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Returning back to the original question of 'why everything revolves around Lana' (even though this sounded far more like a rhetorical complaint...)

It wasn't lana at the center of it all. Lana, as a person, didn't effect the outcome. It is the contrast between the two halves of the dream. The fist half is happiness, real happiness that could only come from a life of goodness. The second half showed him the cost of that decision, a surrundering of control and an acceptance of life's trials as well as it's gifts. Lana was important only so far as the fact that he loves her, making her presence in the dream essential. If Victoria Hardwick popped out of obscurity and showed up in Lex's dream, it wouldn't have worked, because we know that he doesn't have feelings for her, but does have them for Lana.

[angelfire east]

Originally posted by GhostRider
What was telling was that the last thing Lana asked of him was not to change. And his mother was telling him to follow his heart and give up his ambition. These are the women he loves and he chooses to ignore them both. What makes him evil isn't that he decides he wants money and power, it's that he decides he'll do anything to get them. So we see him choosing to defame JK. And it's obvious that he'll never be satisfied no matter how wealthly or powerful he becomes.

Which is ture, he could have just keep running, he didn't need to defame JK. He still has tons of power and money without winning.

And there was nothing in his dream to say he couldn't have won all on his own without doing anything to harm JK. He did forfit to JK.

[my3cats]

Lana doesn't work as a character or a plot-device.

Because, she is not even developed enough be one-dimentionalE
Even inherently less than realistic sci-fi/fantasy type storys have to some, at least symbolic, resemblance to something that exist in the real world, in their characters.
Lana doesn't have that, just a big list of traits that don't go-together and change every week or so. Nothing has ever been portrayed believably enough to define her or serve as character developement.
And to make it worse, the traits that seem to show up most often (albeit,apparently completely unintentional, on the part of TPTB) are stupid, ill-tempered and selfish.
If the actually had succeeded at writing her as a perfect Mary Sue or at least a nicer person(they failed to effectively show her having any good points at all, IMO) at least it would have made symbolic sense.
The result is,at best Lana is boring and vapid, at worst a spoiled brat who has nothing at all going for her except her looks.

Now,the audience is left to wonder WHY?!?!?! Would someone like Lex Luthor or Clark Kent (or Whitney, Chloe, Lois, Martha, Jason, The FOTWs, everyone in school, even the frakin' vampires!) be so enamored of her? Why? Just because she'[s pretty? What else does she have, nothing.

It makes no sense at all and it makes the other characters seem dumb and shallow,which is the reason why Lana is so hated by so many veiwers.

[PeteM]

Yet another post way off topic moaning and groaning yet again about Lana.

Ridiculous.

I guess board rules only applies to a certain segment of posters.



But since we are off topic:



Originally posted by my3cats
Now,the audience is left to wonder WHY?!?!?! Would someone like Lex Luthor or Clark Kent (or Whitney, Chloe, Lois, Martha, Jason, The FOTWs, everyone in school, even the frakin' vampires!) be so enamored of her? Why? Just because she'[s pretty? What else does she have, nothing.

It makes no sense at all and it makes the other characters seem dumb and shallow,which is the reason why Lana is so hated by so many veiwers.



That is a pretty inane comment. If you haven't notice, as much as you and others might hate her, an equal if not greater amount of men are enamored with her. An equal number of women are likewise fans of her.

Are we all shallow and dumb?

That is ridiculous. Whitney, Lex, and Clark are all enamored with her for the same reason that I and other people are.

Lana is attractive inside and outside.

Deal with it.

[k18]

Originally posted by PeteM
Are we all shallow and dumb?

That is ridiculous. Whitney, Lex, and Clark are all enamored with her for the same reason that I and other people are.

Lana is attractive inside and outside.

Deal with it.

Have to agree 100%.

[kryptonitte]

Originally posted by GhostRider
. What makes him evil isn't that he decides he wants money and power, it's that he decides he'll do anything to get them. So we see him choosing to defame JK. And it's obvious that he'll never be satisfied no matter how wealthly or powerful he becomes.

I totally agree with this and this is why I don't think in this episode it did revolve all around Lana and why I liked the character in this episode as well. I know some are upset because it was just her but it is way more than Lex losing "Lana"- I feel it did work in the sense that he once again will lose someone he loved and a feeling of being powerless comes over him. He knows Lionel will never help if he does give up everything for this "family" and he can't handle not being able to do anything once again to help the one he loves. So instead of hooking himself up and work in another way like preparing for this gem of a gift knowing an outcome that lies in the future...He decides to throw it all away and now will defame JK and keep all his money and wealth..This too me also showed a deep hatred of his father and in a sense I think his father having everything and him not also is a huge factor in all this as well.

[Sweetie]

Actually,the episode revolved around Lex more than Lana(it was his episode after all).It's normal that he sees her as his wife in his dream because deep down inside he wants her to be.She was a character of the story just like the others.Usually,I don't appreciate her that much but,she had good lines for once.She was so happy and a pregnant Lana (don't see that everyday).Franckly,I think Lana is a much more interesting with Lex than with Clark.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by my3cats
Lana doesn't work as a character or a plot-device.

Because, she is not even developed enough be one-dimentionalE
Even inherently less than realistic sci-fi/fantasy type storys have to some, at least symbolic, resemblance to something that exist in the real world, in their characters.
Lana doesn't have that, just a big list of traits that don't go-together and change every week or so. Nothing has ever been portrayed believably enough to define her or serve as character developement.
And to make it worse, the traits that seem to show up most often (albeit,apparently completely unintentional, on the part of TPTB) are stupid, ill-tempered and selfish.
If the actually had succeeded at writing her as a perfect Mary Sue or at least a nicer person(they failed to effectively show her having any good points at all, IMO) at least it would have made symbolic sense.
The result is,at best Lana is boring and vapid, at worst a spoiled brat who has nothing at all going for her except her looks.

Now,the audience is left to wonder WHY?!?!?! Would someone like Lex Luthor or Clark Kent (or Whitney, Chloe, Lois, Martha, Jason, The FOTWs, everyone in school, even the frakin' vampires!) be so enamored of her? Why? Just because she'[s pretty? What else does she have, nothing.

It makes no sense at all and it makes the other characters seem dumb and shallow,which is the reason why Lana is so hated by so many veiwers.

I agree, except that perhaps I might have tried to put it a little less harsh. Although, I have to admit, that I have had moments when watching the show, were your Lana sentiments, here, have mirrored my own.


Originally posted by PeteM
Yet another post way off topic moaning and groaning yet again about Lana.

Ridiculous.

I guess board rules only applies to a certain segment of posters.



But since we are off topic:






That is a pretty inane comment. If you haven't notice, as much as you and others might hate her, an equal if not greater amount of men are enamored with her. An equal number of women are likewise fans of her.

Are we all shallow and dumb?

That is ridiculous. Whitney, Lex, and Clark are all enamored with her for the same reason that I and other people are.

Lana is attractive inside and outside.

Deal with it.

I'm sorry, but I completely disagree. Not with that a large number of people are fans of hers, but that she is attractive inside. A few noble qualities in my opinion, does not erase all the other bad qualities that she has showed through out the seasons. Plus, while she is very pretty, I really don't consider her Smallville's most attractive resident, and I believe a lot of people also feel that way. So making everyone fall in Love with her gets old. Put that together with bad writting for her character, and in my eyes, you get what my3cats is talking about.

"Deal With it"? Are you sure that your not the one having a tough time with it? From reading your posts, I gotta wonder. Sure, she's got a lot of fans.....but a large number of people also really dislike her.........and you shouldn't expect them to stay silent about it. And especially if you're telling them to. Yeah, some people on all sides just vent bad stuff.....but a lot of them also make good points.......I guess we just gotta try to agree to disagree.


I would like to add one thing to an earlier post of mine in this thread. Although as an "object of desire", I agree that everything unbelievably revolves around Lana,.....on the plus side, at least for this season, we haven't had an overdose of it. Perhaps that is why I enjoyed her performance in "Lexmas". A few Lana less episodes (and good writting) may have opened me up to that. I don't know for sure.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK

"Deal With it"? Are you sure that your not the one having a tough time with it? From reading your posts, I gotta wonder. Sure, she's got a lot of fans.....but a large number of people also really dislike her.........and you shouldn't expect them to stay silent about it. And especially if you're telling them to. Yeah, some people on all sides just vent bad stuff.....but a lot of them also make good points.......I guess we just gotta try to agree to disagree.




I don't have a problem at all. I'm not the one constantly extoling Lana virtues or why I think she is the greatest thing since slice bread. I like her, others hate her. I learned to ignore them. There are many threads on this board whose sole subject, or purpose, is for like-minded individuals to bash Lana while singing Kumbya.

They can have at it. I'm mature enough not to interrupt their hate-fest. BUT why must they constantly raises the same complaints againt Lana over and over again on every thread.

They can't seem to deal with the fact that some people might like character. And that such persons are not shallow or stupid for doing so.

[watcher4]

If I was a moderator, I would be closing this thread. Lana sure does evoke ALOT of emotion.

[SmallvilleMan]

If I was a moderator, I would be closing this thread. Lana sure does evoke ALOT of emotion

Lana doesn't start these threads, so I don't think it's Lana.

[cotton candy girl]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Lana doesn't start these threads, so I don't think it's Lana.

:lol:

[SmallvilleMan]

;)

[FotW]

I agree that "Lexmas" kind of forced the "Lana is perfect" idea to the extreme. Now whether she is a good person or not is not really the point, IMO, it's the way she is viewed by the other characters in most episodes and "Lexmas" was one of these for sure. I've been dreading that TPTB would set up Lexana in the way they did in "Lexmas" ever since season 4. I mean the main idea in "Lexmas", seemed to be that Lana is a "reward" for Lex if he only he is "good" enough to deserve her.
Of course the episode may not have been all about Lana, I realize it was about Lex and Lionel in the end, but still the idea that Lana Lang is some kind of "gift from above for a man to possess as his reward for (what?) not choosing to be a supervillian" is an insult to Lex fans and women viewers alike. Women/girls are not possessions but people, but Lana always seems to be treated like an object. What was Lana's dream in the future of "Lexmas"? Didn't she say in past episodes she wants to leave Smallville and do things with her life? Apparently all she ever wanted was to have Lex's kids - as long as he wasn't evil. :rolleyes:
And of course, as others may have mentioned ( I didn't read this whole thread) she even gives birth on X-mas day, so we can set her up as more of an icon in the Smallville universe.


Originally posted by smallvilleusedtobegood
First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana? .... I just don't understand the focus on Lana. We are constantly told that she is a perfect character and she never does anything wrong and EVERYONE absolutely loves her, but we never see any proof of why she is so "perfect" and I think it's safe to say that a lot of us do not like her. :

[vikingjedi]

Why does everything revolve around Lana?

Simply because she rules. Lana >>>>>>>>>Lois :D

[watcher4]

1. She is the only female in the BIG THREE

2. TPTB are enamoured by her beauty

3. She is Clark's girlfriend and has been his soulmate since the series began

4. She has a huge fan following-whether it is fans who adore her, fans who hate her or fans who are just intrigued by her

5. There have always been characters on TV shows that people LOVE TO HATE. Maybe Lana is one of them. That is as much a fan following as anything.

6. Just read these boards and see how much emotion the character of Lana evokes

[Daphne]

I Beleive that the reason that Lana is so important in Smallville is this, SMallville is about Clark Kent as a teenager. As a teenager Clark Kent was madly in love with Lana Lang. Therefore Lana will have to be a major player in the series.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by watcher4
1. She is the only female in the BIG THREE

2. TPTB are enamoured by her beauty

3. She is Clark's girlfriend and has been his soulmate since the series began

4. She has a huge fan following-whether it is fans who adore her, fans who hate her or fans who are just intrigued by her

5. There have always been characters on TV shows that people LOVE TO HATE. Maybe Lana is one of them. That is as much a fan following as anything.

6. Just read these boards and see how much emotion the character of Lana evokes

Actually, I think there are some fans who love Lana with a passion, and some who hate her with a passion. But, from what I've seen, the large majority of SV fans seem mostly indifferent about the character. Sometimes (when she's too heavily featured, when it seems like she's being pushed too hard) they find her annoying. Sometimes (like now, when she's not being pushed too hard) they find her okay. Their feelings about the character aren't particularly strong one way or another. I'd definately argue about those fans finding her intriguing in any way. And they don't love to hate her, the way you love to hate a character like Lionel, who'se so good at being bad. But, because they don't feel that strongly one way or the other about the character (she isn't one of those characters who makes you wonder what they are thinking or planning, or wonder what they are going to do or say when they are onscreen) it's not very interesting to them when her storylines take up huge chunks of story time.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
Actually, I think there are some fans who love Lana with a passion, and some who hate her with a passion. But, from what I've seen, the large majority of SV fans seem mostly indifferent about the character. Sometimes (when she's too heavily featured, when it seems like she's being pushed too hard) they find her annoying. Sometimes (like now, when she's not being pushed too hard) they find her okay. Their feelings about the character aren't particularly strong one way or another. I'd definately argue about those fans finding her intriguing in any way. And they don't love to hate her, the way you love to hate a character like Lionel, who'se so good at being bad. But, because they don't feel that strongly one way or the other about the character (she isn't one of those characters who makes you wonder what they are thinking or planning, or wonder what they are going to do or say when they are onscreen) it's not very interesting to them when her storylines take up huge chunks of story time.

Oh, I totally agree that some fans love her with a passion and some people hate her with a passion. However, I can't help but feel that to those who hate her with a passion that she is a character that they love to hate. Whatever it is, she draws in her share of viewers.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Lana doesn't start these threads, so I don't think it's Lana.
Originally posted by cotton candy girl
:lol:
Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
;)





The Key word is "evoke".....in that sense Watcher4 is absolutely correct.......Lana certainly ignites and fuels such threads....whether good or bad. As do other characters I'm sure.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by watcher4
Oh, I totally agree that some fans love her with a passion and some people hate her with a passion. However, I can't help but feel that to those who hate her with a passion that she is a character that they love to hate. Whatever it is, she draws in her share of viewers.

When people love to hate a character, that actually means they like that character. They might not want to be pals with them, but they love watching those characters be bad (whether that means being mean to their fellow classmates, or all out evil). Such characters (like Lionel, old Cordelia and the Mayor from BtVS, Lilah and Lindsey from ANGEL) are fun to hate because they are fun characters.

I don't think most of the people who dislike Lana have fun doing it. They don't enjoy her antics, aren't waiting to see what wicked thing she'll do or say next. She just doens't qualify as a character people love to hate.

[SmallvilleMan]

The Key word is "evoke".....in that sense Watcher4 is absolutely correct.......Lana certainly ignites and fuels such threads....whether good or bad. As do other characters I'm sure.

Actually the key word is "emtions." Lana doesn't evoke a lot of emtions from Lana fans in the sense this fan was talking about, that would be the people who start these threads as would the lana haters would post in it.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by FotW
I agree that "Lexmas" kind of forced the "Lana is perfect" idea to the extreme. Now whether she is a good person or not is not really the point, IMO, it's the way she is viewed by the other characters in most episodes and "Lexmas" was one of these for sure.
:

While I did enjoy Lana in Lexmas, that "perfect" statement by Clark was soooooooo anoying. I think if it had been any other compliment.....beautiful, gorgeous, wonderful......anything but....."Perfect"........hell, I probably wouldn't have noticed.....but that line by Clark was just too much of why the writters continue to make people dislike her.......and that's making her out to be more than what she really is. And it doesn't matter that Clark sees her as perfect.......that line by Clark still made me cringe.............cringe like someone forcing me to drink a bottle of Maple Syrup non-stop.

[SmallvilleMan]

This is what's so frustrating about anti-lana people to me. I mean, honestly, so what if he said perfect? Any guy, who was in love or that was their girlfriend would say the same thing.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
This is what's so frustrating about anti-lana people to me. I mean, honestly, so what if he said perfect? Any guy, who was in love or that was their girlfriend would say the same thing.

Then I would tend to think that you have the same delima that the writters have......they just don't get it.......thus the exsistence of these so called threads that frustrate you. Think about how much Season Four must have frustrated the Smallville writers. They just couldn't get it right. For me, I'll take that less than "Perfect" Lexmas scene with a grain of salt because it was great overall episode for Lana, and the fact that her pretty-ness didn't feel shoved in front of my face (recent episodes with less Lana might be more responsible for this state of mind....again...not sure)......except of course for that less than perfect line by Clark.

[SmallvilleMan]

Then I would tend to think that you have the same delima that the writters have......they just don't get it.......thus the exsistence of these so called threads that frustrate you. Think about how much Season Four must have frustrated the Smallville writers. They just couldn't get it right. For me, I'll take that less than "Perfect" Lexmas scene with a grain of salt because it was great overall episode for Lana, and the fact that her pretty-ness didn't feel shoved in front of my face (recent episodes with less Lana might be more responsible for this state of mind....again...not sure)......except of course for that less than perfect line by Clark.

Oh please then, help me understand. How one word, which ANY GUY would say to someone he loves or to his girlfriend could upset you? It's actually funny to me, not frustrating, because it continues to sound like you just try to find reasons not to like Lana.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
I don't think most of the people who dislike Lana have fun doing it. They don't enjoy her antics, aren't waiting to see what wicked thing she'll do or say next. She just doens't qualify as a character people love to hate.
I'd agree. I see Lana as a full fledged character w/ good and bad points, just like Lex and Clark. But people who like her won't admit that she has any flaws, and people who don't like her won't admit that she has any good qualities. It's hopeless. I know I won't be discussing Lana much in the future. :p

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Oh please then, help me understand. How one word, which ANY GUY would say to someone he loves or to his girlfriend could upset you? It's actually funny to me, not frustrating, because it continues to sound like you just try to find reasons not to like Lana.

Firstly, I'm not finding a reason. That line jumped out at me the first time I heard it. I beginning to think that you would not be happy unless I said that the episode was "Perfect". You may like to down your Maple Syrup but I do not.

Here's what I would have done differently to try to appease both sides ( I would not ignore the fact that she has a lot of fans....as well as a lot of anti-Lana people....justified or not).

1. Tell the writters to change the word. It's actually a good written scene, but the way we have presented Lana over the seasons....and espcially Season four......just say she's beautiful. There are different levels of beauty, and it is in the eye of the beholder. "Perfect", while it can still be subjective...as in perfect for him.....just won't come accross well.....because not everyone believes she's perfect.....let alone perfect for Clark. The truth is that not everyone thinks she's the greatest thing since sliced bread (as one fan has said before). However, I don't think anyone would argue that Lana (aka Kristin) is beautiful. Now how beautiful is another matter. Leave it to the viewer.

2. Tell Tom not to oversell the line verbally.......just show it in your face. To just say it in warm...matter of fact way.......that conveys it. Come accross as warm and happy just looking at her....and say the line in soft subtle way......if it comes accross your face....then you don't need to over sell the words. But in the end, even if you oversell it......beautiful will still come accross much better than perfect.

Now, off the top of my head....that's what I would have done different. Another thing I would try to keep in mind is that we are not just writting about "ANY GUY", and that this is a TV show that caters to a lot of fans.

If I remember correctly, you didn't really like Lana's death bed lines to Clark in Hidden, because it didn't make sense, or at the very least you weren't happy about it. You actually agreed with me that the writters can be evil at times. She always knew? First thing I would have told the writters is "what the hell crap is this?" Come on guys keep it consistent. You're just trying to make the scene so fairy tale perfect that it comes accross as stupid. What I would have suggested is for Lana to admit that she didn't always know that Clark could make her more happy than anyone, but that she soon quickly realized it. Nothing wrong with that. But if Smallville's writters are going to disregard the continuity just to make it a fairy tale moment....... like Clark and Lana were always meant to be (especially since Canon dictates otherwise)......then let's break out another Keg of the Sweetest Maple Syrup we can find.....and force it down more people's throats. Some will savor it, and others will simply choke on it. Smallvilleman....I'm not sure why you can't understand that a great number of fans don't want it served to them in that way.

All I can say is that The Death bed scene in Hidden justifiably "upset" me because it was a complete disregard of the first season just to make the moment more special. However, the Lexmas' "Perfect" scene did not "upset" me.......it just made me "cringe". If you don't get that difference.....then I'm obviously wasting my time. You'll never understand why a simple word can be so annoying.

[ZoZo]

I think it would be great to pour Maple syrup down lana...

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by ZoZo
I think it would be great to pour Maple syrup down lana...

Yeah, and like I said.....there are some that would savor it, but others that would choke on it.

But weave her into a smooth well written episode like you were dipping her into vat of creamy milk chocolate.....hummm....okay that I could probably savor.......even if it is a Chocolate covered pink squirrel. Lexmas is probably the closest I've come to that.

[gloria]

well i dont think lex's dream was believable....after everything that happened between them..

AND i dont think it was all about lana...i think you guys are just hating on her...

i think there was more too it...not just oh LANA died ...what lionel said to him in the dream made up his mind (he didnt have the power)

him mum told him he can have a happy life even without lana you have two kids and the people of smallville respect him especially the kent family...but he decided that wasnt enough...he wants everything..

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by gloria

AND i dont think it was all about lana...i think you guys are just hating on her...



You also forgot to mention how we are all "jealous" of her.

[gloria]

Originally posted by CK&CK
You also forgot to mention how we are all "jealous" of her.

ummm...i was gonna reply to that but then i realised you might be being sarcastic ... :\

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1


I don't think most of the people who dislike Lana have fun doing it. They don't enjoy her antics, aren't waiting to see what wicked thing she'll do or say next. She just doens't qualify as a character people love to hate.


Au contraire. You must not have ignored all the threads and posts about Lana by people who hate her. Why spend such an inordinate amount of time bashing her unless they have a kick out of it, or unless they have some sort of agenda.


My hypothesis. Some posters can't accept that Lana is the female lead/heroine of this show. Therefore, they bash her constantly in a fruitless attempt to displace her in the SV hierchy with Chloe or Lois, or some other character they prefer.

There seems to be a large number of posts about what they think SV should be about.


Originally posted by CK&CK
You also forgot to mention how we are all "jealous" of her.


Of course, it is all right for ya'll to claim that the writers, producers, and directors of the show are "dirty old men" obsessed with Kristin.

[attitudejc]

[i]
him mum told him he can have a happy life even without lana you have two kids and the people of smallville respect him especially the kent family...but he decided that wasnt enough...he wants everything.. [/B]

i think that if he can't settle for a little instead of EVERYTHING, then thats his own fault. he deserves what he gets.

[gloria]

yes he does :)

[yellowqueen22]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
But, from what I've seen, the large majority of SV fans seem mostly indifferent about the character. Sometimes (when she's too heavily featured, when it seems like she's being pushed too hard) they find her annoying. Sometimes (like now, when she's not being pushed too hard) they find her okay. Their feelings about the character aren't particularly strong one way or another. I'd definately argue about those fans finding her intriguing in any way. And they don't love to hate her, the way you love to hate a character like Lionel, who'se so good at being bad. But, because they don't feel that strongly one way or the other about the character (she isn't one of those characters who makes you wonder what they are thinking or planning, or wonder what they are going to do or say when they are onscreen) it's not very interesting to them when her storylines take up huge chunks of story time.

I would agree with you on this one. I'm not a huge fan of Lana... but I would never go so far as to say that I hate her. Sometimes I find the fact that she is forced into the story annoying... but any forcing of a character would kinda revoke the same response.

But there are other times I really enjoy her character, like in this episode. It's sorta Lana at her best when she is the pretty & simple girl next door. And since I'm a fan of Lexana... well the episode was that much better.

Besides... this episode was more about Lex and his fear of losing power/money... his fear of being unable to control things around him. Lex has suffered so much pain in his life... so all he wants to do is protect himself from suffering that pain. Yes... this revolved around Lana... in the sense that he loved her and couldn't save her in the dream... but what is more important was his choice to sacrifice his "soul' or "goodness" in order to protect himself from pain, protect those he cares about, and maybe even protect himself from caring.

As for Lana being at the centre of the fantasy... they've been setting that up for a long time now. Lex's falling for Lana and being interested in Lana... I even remember hints to it back in season one. The reason it's Lana... a) seems that it would cause more conflict between Lex & Clark b) she's the only girl in the threesome.

NOTE - please be careful of turning this thread into a HATE/LOVE Lana thread!!!

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by PeteM
Au contraire. You must not have ignored all the threads and posts about Lana by people who hate her. Why spend such an inordinate amount of time bashing her unless they have a kick out of it, or unless they have some sort of agenda.

Well, people spend a lot of time discussing how they feel about Lana at message boards because that's what you tend to do. Talk about how you feel about certain things. And certain topics often get brought up again and again. I mean, how many different threads have there been about whether Lex was ever good or was always evil? How many threads have their been about whether SV Clark has demonstrated he has what it takes to be Superman one day? How many threads have their been about whether Chloe is or isn't a good friend, whether she would or wouldn't tell Clark's secret, etc? (Although more in the past than now, although there has even been some discussion about whether Chloe was using Clark in this very episode.)

Certain topics are going to be brought up repeatedly. It's the nature of a message board.


My hypothesis. Some posters can't accept that Lana is the female lead/heroine of this show. Therefore, they bash her constantly in a fruitless attempt to displace her in the SV hierchy with Chloe or Lois, or some other character they prefer.

I don't think of Lana as the female lead/heroine of this show. She just isn't a strong enough character. And I don't think Chloe should be the lead, either. And certainly not Lois.

No matter how often they tell me different, Lana strikes me as a secondary character. And what's wrong with that? Not every character is meant to be a lead. (Look at BtVS. If their name wasn't Buffy, they were a supporting character. But that didn't somehow diminish Angel, Xander, Willow, Giles, etc.) And some characters aren't strong enough to carry a show/storyline on their own, as has been demonstrated by the many Lana-centric storylines that just haven't worked out. As I've said elsewhere, Lana works best in the supporting role, which is perfectly fine.

I had no problem with the role Lana played in this episode. But, as I've said, I can certainly see where others are coming from.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
Well, people spend a lot of time discussing how they feel about Lana at message boards because that's what you tend to do. Talk about how you feel about certain things.


That hardly explains the Lana vitriol by certain posters on almost every thread. Certain posters hate her with a passion. Based on what I have seen, there is no way that you can convince me otherwise.



You may consider her a secondary character but she is clearly the female lead of this show. That is not a matter of opinion (whether you or I prefer that she is the lead) but a matter of fact.

If people can accept that fact, there wouldn't be such an outcry by certain posters every time the show focuses on Lana or her storyline.

[Damali]

Originally posted by Dannyblue1
Well, people spend a lot of time discussing how they feel about Lana at message boards because that's what you tend to do. Talk about how you feel about certain things. And certain topics often get brought up again and again. I mean, how many different threads have there been about whether Lex was ever good or was always evil? How many threads have their been about whether SV Clark has demonstrated he has what it takes to be Superman one day? How many threads have their been about whether Chloe is or isn't a good friend, whether she would or wouldn't tell Clark's secret, etc? (Although more in the past than now, although there has even been some discussion about whether Chloe was using Clark in this very episode.)

Certain topics are going to be brought up repeatedly. It's the nature of a message board.


I disagree with this point. There is a difference between threads discussing aspects of a character and threads that are about bashing.

When people claim to hate a character but constantly talk about that same character it only proves that the writers are doing their job.

It rarely matters if people say they love or hate a character, as long as they are talking about that same character they are showing an interest, period. What TPTB dislike the most is indifference.

People may honestly dislike the character, but then why talk about her so much? Its not necessary. People devote way to much time to bash Lana. Threads about Lex's descent into darkness or Clark's journey to becoming Superman is a part of Smallville. Threads discussing how, Lana's clothes are horrible, not so much.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by PeteM
You may consider her a secondary character but she is clearly the female lead of this show. That is not a matter of opinion (whether you or I prefer that she is the lead) but a matter of fact.

Actually, they can call her a lead all they want. Makes no never mind to mean. But being called a lead and working as a lead are two different things. And, this year, Lana has definately been written more as a secondary character, which I think has really worked. I've seen fans who couldn't stand Lana a season or two ago suddenly more able to tolerate, even like her because she isn't being forced as a lead in season 5...yet. (We'll have to see what happens.) And I don't see what's wrong with that, because secondary characters also play an important part in the story.



Originally posted by Damali
I disagree with this point. There is a difference between threads discussing aspects of a character and threads that are about bashing.

"Bashing" is a word that gets tossed around a lot, but I see very little Lana bashing on this board. I think some people define bashing as saying anything negative about a character. But it's not. I don't want to give any examples of real bashing, because it isn't pretty even when described second-hand. But I've seen nothing like that in regards to Lana on this board. I've seen people who have strong opinions about the character explain their reasons for having those opinions. That is not bashing.


When people claim to hate a character but constantly talk about that same character it only proves that the writers are doing their job.

It rarely matters if people say they love or hate a character, as long as they are talking about that same character they are showing an interest, period. What TPTB dislike the most is indifference. [/B]

I disagree with this. I've seen many a character get the kind of response Lana has gotten (or stronger) and it is never a good thing. It's like that expression, "Any publicity is good publicity." Actually, it's not. Just because people are talking doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[tomwellingishott]

Everything revolved around Lana? Gee, when did this begin happening? Oh yeah, season 1. Now, I remember :lol: As far as Lex's nightmare being Lana's fault. I have learned by now that everything is Lana's fault!! Nah guys, I'm just kidding... or am I? :D As for people posting about their dislike for Lana and getting a kick out of it, I agree somewhat. SOme people post negative things about Lana just cuz its funny to see other people rections to their posts. Because most times, Lana fans do get all worked up over a post that doesnt favor Lana. Some people just really don't feel a need for Kristin's character, or believe that she has some very annoying character flaws :p

[watcher4]

Hmmm...166 posts. Not all threads have this many.

[Watching Smallville]

Chlark threads and "Lana bugs me" threads usually get a lot of posts.

[watcher4]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
Chlark threads and "Lana bugs me" threads usually get a lot of posts.

My point exactly!!

[Watching Smallville]

:) :D

[CK&CK]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by PeteM
You may consider her a secondary character but she is clearly the female lead of this show. That is not a matter of opinion (whether you or I prefer that she is the lead) but a matter of fact.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Orignally posted by Dannyblue1
Actually, they can call her a lead all they want. Makes no never mind to mean. But being called a lead and working as a lead are two different things. And, this year, Lana has definately been written more as a secondary character, which I think has really worked. I've seen fans who couldn't stand Lana a season or two ago suddenly more able to tolerate, even like her because she isn't being forced as a lead in season 5...yet. (We'll have to see what happens.) And I don't see what's wrong with that, because secondary characters also play an important part in the story.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Dannyblue1. Just because one is listed as a main character in the credits does not necessarily mean she's written like she is one. Great and intriguing stories have been done on the lives of Clark and Lex....but I've yet to see something really great and intriguing about Lana's life .....maybe an okay episode here and there (Henry Small, searching for her Mother's highschool Validictorian speech)........but certainly not on the same level as Lex or Clark.....and defintely not as a story arc. As I have always said, to me she is one of the big 3 in name only. That a lot of people see her as a secondary character.......is just as much...." a matter of fact".

I would also agree that her character has been more tolerable this season because of what Dannyblue1 is talking about. She's not being constantly shoved into the spotlight just because she's listed as one of the big 3. And when she has......it's more because the story has called for it. Honestly, I to have been wondering how TPTB will play this out through the rest of the season. For the moment however, it appears that they have learned a lesson from season 4.

[cayayofm]

Just because Lana is the lead female of the shows does not mean that the writters had treated her like that. Right now she has been treated like a supporting character, wich is fine. I think this is one of the biggest examples of how the writtres of Smallville have failed. Lana has never been a lead because she has never been a character that had standed up for herself, Lana has always been defined by her relationships, she is only used in the show has a romantic interest. Last year the writters failed to gave her a storyline in wich she could stand in her own as a character. This year she went back to be Clark's love interest, that is all she has always played on the show.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by cayayofm
Just because Lana is the lead female of the shows does not mean that the writters had treated her like that. Right now she has been treated like a supporting character, wich is fine. I think this is one of the biggest examples of how the writtres of Smallville have failed. Lana has never been a lead because she has never been a character that had standed up for herself, Lana has always been defined by her relationships, she is only used in the show has a romantic interest. Last year the writter failed to gave her a storyline in wich she could stand in her own as a character. This year she went back to be Clark's love interest, that is all she has always played on the show.

Well, the writers really cornered themselves into a tight spot because of what you state here. In my opinion, she's been used more effectively as a secondary character, but definitely not as a Big Three Character.......which again.....might be a contributing factor to why I liked her in LEXMAS.

[Damali]

"Bashing" is a word that gets tossed around a lot, but I see very little Lana bashing on this board. I think some people define bashing as saying anything negative about a character. But it's not. I don't want to give any examples of real bashing, because it isn't pretty even when described second-hand. But I've seen nothing like that in regards to Lana on this board. I've seen people who have strong opinions about the character explain their reasons for having those opinions. That is not bashing.

The word bashing may get tossed around a lot, but it still fits to describe how some people respond to Lana. More times then not, the threads are negative in someway and that is bashing. Maybe a better way to describe it, is that people over criticize Lana when compared to Chloe or Lois. I've seen Lana appreciation threads turned into, Lana Sucks threads and I haven't been posting that long. All you have to do is go to the "LANA LANG" forum. "Real" bashing or passive aggressive bashing is still bashing.

And opinions are always welcomed but there is difference in saying 'Lana was wrong in that scene' over 'I wish Lana would die.'


I disagree with this. I've seen many a character get the kind of response Lana has gotten (or stronger) and it is never a good thing. It's like that expression, "Any publicity is good publicity." Actually, it's not. Just because people are talking doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I disagree with this, when it comes to TV, controversy can be a bad thing, but buzz however is always welcomed. Lana isn't controversial but she gets a lot of buzz. And my point wasn't that people hatin' on Lana was a good thing. However talking about her in general, simply shows an interest to observe and comment on what she does.

[PeteM]

All these responses how Lana does not work as a lead or that the writers haven't wrote her as a lead proves my point.

Some of you can't deal with the fact that she is a lead, there is no point denying it. Whether she works as a lead or whether you accept her as a lead is a matter of opinion.

While Lana may have taken a back seat in recent episodes, there is no need to worry she will be front and center in the episodes that follow.

Watch the reaction.

[Dannyblue1]

Originally posted by PeteM
All these responses how Lana does not work as a lead or that the writers haven't wrote her as a lead proves my point.

Some of you can't deal with the fact that she is a lead, there is no point denying it. Whether she works as a lead or whether you accept her as a lead is a matter of opinion.

I think there is a big difference between just not accepting the character as a lead under any circumstances, and being open to the character working as a lead but honestly not thinking she does. The former implies bias. The latter is an honest, objective opinion.

Like I said, I got no problem with people calling Lana a lead, or her being considered one. However, when they've tried to write her in that role, it hasn't worked for me. And that's not because I didn't want it to. Every storyline they've given Lana (learning to fight, Henry Small, Adam, even Isobel) I've gone into optimistically, hoping they would really give the character a chance to strethch and grow. They've just never worked out, in my opinion.

But, hey, I've been proven wrong before. I didn't think Angel would work as a lead either, because of the way he was written on BtVS. But they gave the boy his own show and proved me wrong. However, unlike Angel, Lana has been given plenty of chances to shine as a lead on SV. They just haven't panned out.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by PeteM
All these responses how Lana does not work as a lead or that the writers haven't wrote her as a lead proves my point.

Some of you can't deal with the fact that she is a lead, there is no point denying it. Whether she works as a lead or whether you accept her as a lead is a matter of opinion.

While Lana may have taken a back seat in recent episodes, there is no need to worry she will be front and center in the episodes that follow.

Watch the reaction.

You just don't get it.......I've seen both Lana and anti-Lana fans argue that she's not being written with any depth.......but you keep wanting to drive the obvious home......that she's "listed" as one of the big 3. I've also seen some of these same fans complain that other suposedly secondary characters are being written with more depth.....now why is that? Frankly, as far as "Dealing with it", I don't believe anything about what you say to the contrary anymore......What I now believe is that you are the one who has a problem dealing with this. And your posts are proving that point.

As for whether Lana is front and center, if she blends well into the story like she did in LEXMAS....then okay......but if she's forced into the "Chosen One" spotlight like in season four....then yeah.......watch the reaction. Hell, even that scenario, if it had been done well, might have been pallatable. But as TPTB have proven, they have trouble writting for her. For whatever reason, they do better when writting her as a secondary character. A lot of people (I'm not saying all)...see it this way....the fact that you don't.....doesn't make it go away.....or make that opinion any less valid.

[watcher4]

:mad: :( :\

[Watching Smallville]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[my3cats]

Lana gets a lot of discussion in "bashing" threads for the same reason plane crashes get banner headlines and hurricanes get special weather reports.
Not really a good thing.

A "love to hate character" is INTENDED as a villian/antihero/jerk/etc. and effective in that role.

A "just hate" character is a painfully obvious failure of the writers/actors/directors to do their jobs.
The character is intended to portray one thing (for example "perfect" "strong" "attractive inside and out") but, instead unintentionally comes across on screen as the exact oposite (dumb,vapid,selfish,b----y)
or simply unrealistic.

Every criticism of Lana I've ever seen is of the latter type, there is no "love to hate" effect happening at all.


Lana is "hated" by so many veiwers because the more overemphasis and amount of screentime given to her is boring and lowers the quality of the show.
Boring is never good, nobody watches a show because they want to be bored.

[jaime,oburg]

Lana just seems to work better when written as a secondary character IMHO. When TPTB try to force a story for her (previous examples of Henry Small, Adam and my personal failure Isobel) it just seems to flame the dislike for her character by many fans. Giving Lana a bigger part of the mythology just so she can remain "part of the big three" does not serve her character any justice. There's nothing wrong with allowing her to serve her character's purpose of being Clark's first sweetheart. Inventing poorly written storylines doesn't help the audience accept her as part of the big three. My two cents.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK
You just don't get it.......I've seen both Lana and anti-Lana fans argue that she's not being written with any depth.......but you keep wanting to drive the obvious home......that she's "listed" as one of the big 3. I've also seen some of these same fans complain that other suposedly secondary characters are being written with more depth.....now why is that? Frankly, as far as "Dealing with it", I don't believe anything about what you say to the contrary anymore......What I now believe is that you are the one who has a problem dealing with this. And your posts are proving that point.

As for whether Lana is front and center, if she blends well into the story like she did in LEXMAS....then okay......but if she's forced into the "Chosen One" spotlight like in season four....then yeah.......watch the reaction. Hell, even that scenario, if it had been done well, might have been pallatable. But as TPTB have proven, they have trouble writting for her. For whatever reason, they do better when writting her as a secondary character. A lot of people (I'm not saying all)...see it this way....the fact that you don't.....doesn't make it go away.....or make that opinion any less valid.



You missing it. I DON'T CARE THAT THEY HATE LANA. I NEVER HAVE.

I'm not on a mission to make anybody like her. I don't care about changing anybody's view points or opinions.

On the other hand, it seems many are on a mission to make people hate her or displace her in the SV hierarchy. Why the constant bashing of a character.

You don't see anybody going on and on about how great Lana is do you?

Just because the haters give long winded explanations for the hatred makes it no more compelling or justified. Who cares why they hate a character? You allege that people hate her because her character supposedly lack depth. But I also heard complaints such as she talks about her parents to much, she is too perfect (a Mary Sue), she wears to much pink, no one ever calls her out on her mistakes, . . . And my all time favorite, posters really don't hate her, they just hate the way she is written.

Yada, Yada.

Even if some complaints may have merit. Who really cares. It is their preference. It is an opinion and everyone has one. Just because Hitler wrote Mein Kemp, does it make his hatred of Jews more compelling.

My whole point is why can't they stop regurgitating why they hate her over and over again.

Because they can't stop reurging the same complaints make me doubt whether they can deal with the fact that she is the lead. And as the lead, she will have screen time and storylines.

[Damali]

Originally posted by my3cats
Lana gets a lot of discussion in "bashing" threads for the same reason plane crashes get banner headlines and hurricanes get special weather reports.
Not really a good thing.

There's a saying in TV news if it bleeds, it leads, this is why plane crashes or special weather reports get massive attention, the lost of life or the potential lost of life sells. People may not like it, but they still watch the news whenever a tragedy strikes espeically if they can relate to the story in someway. However trying to compare a fictional character to news events is a bit extreme. I have to assume that you mean, you think she's sooo bad, you just have to talk about her, she's just unavoidable.


A "just hate" character is a painfully obvious failure of the writers/actors/directors to do their jobs.
The character is intended to portray one thing (for example "perfect" "strong" "attractive inside and out") but, instead unintentionally comes across on screen as the exact oposite (dumb,vapid,selfish,b----y)
or simply unrealistic.

This is really a matter of opinion and not fact. TPTB don't view Lana as a failure, where has that ever been implied or said? Every character on Smallville displays traits of: perfection, being strong or strong willed, stupidity, selfishiness and etc. My question is why is Lana singled out more times then not?


Lana is "hated" by so many veiwers because the more overemphasis and amount of screentime given to her is boring and lowers the quality of the show.
Boring is never good, nobody watches a show because they want to be bored.

Millions of people watch Smallville, you can't account for every viewer's opinion. It would probably be more accurate to say, a large number of ONLINE viewers, who post regularly in forums hate Lana and even that's a little iffy. IMO Lana-bashers tend to be very vocal. But from my own past experiences, claiming to hate a character, yet constantly discussing that character works against you. There's a difference between wanting a character to be written better and posting threads for ways to kill-off a character because she coughed the wrong way.

The whole she's boring, could be applied to anyone. No character is universal loved. However Lana is a lead so she's going to get a good deal of screen time, that hasn't changed in five years. And if people are still griping about that... well as my younger sister would say: that sounds like a personal problem and I can't help that.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Damali
However Lana is a lead so she's going to get a good deal of screen time, that hasn't changed in five years. And if people are still griping about that...well as my younger sister would say: that sounds like a personal problem and I can't help that.

Exactly. The same people have griped about Lana for years. Yet, she is still the lead and a focus of SV and will be for the foreseable future. And of course the same posters will whine and complain incessantly about her character and her screen time.

[Damali]

Originally posted by PeteM
Exactly. The same people have griped about Lana for years. Yet, she is still the lead and a focus of SV and will be for the foreseable future. And of course the same posters will whine and complain incessantly about her character and her screen time.

:D :D
Damn, you got that last part before I had a chance to edit it out. I thought it was a little snarky, but since you quoted me I put back in.
:D :D

I like Lana and I even understand some of the reasons people have for not liking Lana, but it's like you wrote, its the incessant whining that I don't get. This board really isn't on the top of my list for Lana-bashers, but some of the complaints seem so out of left field at times.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by PeteM
Exactly. The same people have griped about Lana for years. Yet, she is still the lead and a focus of SV and will be for the foreseable future. And of course the same posters will whine and complain incessantly about her character and her screen time.

And they have every right to do so. Again, you don't seem to be dealing with it, and on top of it.......you are now repeating the same stuff over and over as well.....wasn't that one of your original points? Why complain over and over?

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK
And they have every right to do so. Again, you don't seem to be dealing with it, and on top of it.......you are now repeating the same stuff over and over as well.....wasn't that one of your original points? Why complain over and over?


LOL. The irony is too much.

First of all, they don't have a right to if the thread is not a Lana-bashing thread. There are a number of why I hate Lana threads on this board, leave it there.

Second, you see how irritating it is when somebody regurgitate the same thing over and over and over again.

These posters have been making off-topic posts stating the same complaints against Lana that they have made since year 1 or 2. It is beyond tiresome.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Damali

This is really a matter of opinion and not fact. TPTB don't view Lana as a failure, where has that ever been implied or said? Every character on Smallville displays traits of: perfection, being strong or strong willed, stupidity, selfishiness and etc. My question is why is Lana singled out more times then not?


Then why do I hear people that really like Lana also complain about how she is written? One of their big gripes is that (as stated in a previous post of mine) supposedly secondary characters are written with more depth. That doesn't sound like a complete success to me, but by the same token, since a lot of fans really like her, I guess one shouldn't call her a complete failure either. And we can't say with certainty on what the numbers are on each side......No one knows for sure (whether it's On-line, die hard fans, or just casual watchers). What is pretty sure...is that the numbers on each side seem to be pretty large.

The question that I ponder on about is your "why is she singled out more times than not?"..........whether it's people that just don't like her, or fans that like her but complain about how she is written......the fact that she is singled out......to me....is very telling....and not in a good way.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK
Then why do I hear people that really like Lana also complain about how she is written? One of their big gripes is that (as stated in a previous post of mine) supposedly secondary characters are written with more depth. That doesn't sound like a complete success to me, but by the same token, since a lot of fans really like her, I guess one shouldn't call her a complete failure either. And we can't say with certainty on what the numbers are on each side......No one knows for sure (whether it's On-line, die hard fans, or just casual watchers). What is pretty sure...is that the numbers on each side seem to be pretty large.

The question that I ponder on about is your "why is she singled out more times than not?"..........whether it's people that just don't like her, or fans that like her but complain about how she is written......the fact that she is singled out......to me....is very telling....and not in a good way.


The fact that Lana is singled out is very telling on the posters doing the singleing out, not on the character.

Why aren't they bashing Pete or Martha? If depth is ever an issue, they should have had a field day with Pete or Martha? Not too much depth to either of those characters.


But if I cared to critique the depth of a character (Chloe) I can easily show that character has less depth than Lana.

For example, for all the complaints about Lana, she is certainly more real with more facets than Chloe. Talk about two-dimensional. Chloe is nothing more than a cardboard "loveable sidekick". We don't see her faults, her failures, other than her unrequited love for Clark. What kind of person would be so bubbly/happy after being rejected over and over again. What is her interests beside being a reporter? What is her insecurities?

On all fronts nada.

And lets look at her as a reporter. Can anybody be less unrealistic? Why bother with the Daily Planet. With her out of this world computer and investigative skills plus her far-flung connections and sources, Chloe could give Jennifer's character a run for her money.

A comparison between the depth of Lana and Chloe. There is no comparison.

See not so hard. But besides this post, I don't spend a second bashing Chloe. Doesn't interest me at all.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by PeteM
LOL. The irony is too much.

First of all, they don't have a right to if the thread is not a Lana-bashing thread. There are a number of why I hate Lana threads on this board, leave it there.

Second, you see how irritating it is when somebody regurgitate the same thing over and over and over again.

These posters have been making off-topic posts stating the same complaints against Lana that they have made since year 1 or 2. It is beyond tiresome.

With such a view......what's your motto then?......Do as I say....not as I do? Doesn't seem to be beyond tiresome for you as you appear to have the energy to come back over and over. If they just purely hate, then we all have to deal with it.......If they eloquently back up their dislikes especially when connecting the title of this thread to Lexmas.......then as you say deal with it. Actually, these dislikes are better explained on this site compared to what you would find on the WB message board.........if you really want tiresome, then I suggest you go there....it would make for interesting reading.

* I just noticed your post prior to my submitting this, and I realize that I'm just wasting my time here. Do and say what you want.......I definitely think it won't sway anyone that isn't already in that frame of mind......in fact.....it's probably doing the opposite for some.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK
With such a view......what's your motto then?......Do as I say....not as I do? Doesn't seem to be beyond tiresome for you as you appear to have the energy to come back over and over. If they just purely hate, then we all have to deal with it.......If they eloquently back up their dislikes especially when connecting the title of this thread to Lexmas.......then as you say deal with it. Actually, these dislikes are better explained on this site compared to what you would find on the WB message board.........if you really want tiresome, then go there....it would make for interesting reading.

You are the only one complaining. And my repetiveness is just a small fraction of what I and others had to endured for years.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by PeteM
You are the only one complaining. And my repetiveness is just a small fraction of what I and others had to endured for years.

Actually, you make me laugh. What a waste of time this conversation was.....oh well, as I always say, I'll take it with a grain of salt. Can't live an learn without getting into some useless conversations.........even that provides some experience. I just hope that the Smallville writers have learned from theirs. So far.....and especially with Lexmas.....it appears that they have. However, the season ain't over yet.......we'll just have to all wait and see.

[Damali]

Originally posted by CK&CK
Then why do I hear people that really like Lana also complain about how she is written? One of their big gripes is that (as stated in a previous post of mine) supposedly secondary characters are written with more depth. That doesn't sound like a complete success to me, but by the same token, since a lot of fans really like her, I guess one shouldn't call her a complete failure either. And we can't say with certainty on what the numbers are on each side......No one knows for sure (whether it's On-line, die hard fans, or just casual watchers). What is pretty sure...is that the numbers on each side seem to be pretty large.

The question that I ponder on about is your "why is she singled out more times than not?"..........whether it's people that just don't like her, or fans that like her but complain about how she is written......the fact that she is singled out......to me....is very telling....and not in a good way.


This whole thread started- off with someone posting, why does everything revolve around Lana even though "Lexmas" is clearly a Lex-centric epi, that's complaining... boarding on bashing but not quite there yet.

If people want to discuss how Lana is written ... fine by me, that has never been my problem. But the bashing on Lana and at times KK happens, and you can't tell my otherwise. I have stated that I don't get the intense hate. I can understand some of the reasons people give for disliking Lana. But there are threads on the net in general, that are little mean and at times cruel.

If people think secondary characters are written with more depth..so be it, its just that I don't. IMO TPTB have given Lana some depth as a character, I don't see her as some shallow void who sucks the life force from others. I see her as a teenaged girl growing into adulthood having to deal with an on-again/ off-again/ on-again alien boyfriend and killer mutants at times.

At the end of the day this is a TV show, it won't kiss me at night or hug me goodbye in the morning so when I see a post that seems a bit obsessive, I wonder why. Its just a show to me. How can people hate something so much that in reality does not exist?

I guess this is more my problem then anyone else's.

[my3cats]

A better example,people do the most talking about the weather when it's either uncomfortably hot,uncomfortably cold or causes the cancelation of an event.

People like to complain, they want to commiserate with others, they want to vent, they want to protest, maybe TPTB will notice the wake-up call.
It can be interesting to analize what went wrong.

If overemphasis on a boring, unrealistic, unrelatable, poorly developed character is hurting the quality of someones favorite show and taking screentime away from the characters and storylines they watch for, people will talk about it.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by Damali
This whole thread started- off with someone staying, why does everything revolve around Lana even though "Lexmas" is clearly a Lex-centric epi, that's complaining... boarding on bashing but not quite there yet.

If people want to discuss how Lana is written ... fine by me, that has never been my problem. But the bashing on Lana and at times KK happens, and you can't tell my otherwise. I have stated that I don't get the intense hate. I can understand some of the reasons people give for disliking Lana. But there are threads on the net in general, that are little mean and at times cruel.

If people think secondary characters are written with more depth..so be it, its just that I don't. IMO TPTB have given Lana some depth as a character, I don't see her as some shallow void who sucks the life force from others. I see her as a teenaged girl growing into adulthood having to deal with an on-again/ off-again/ on-again alien boyfriend and killer mutants at times.

At the end of the day this is a TV show, it won't kiss at night or hug me goodbye in the morning so when I see a post that seems a bit obsessive, I wonder why. Its just a show to me. How can people hate something so much that in reality does not exsist?

I guess this is more my problem then anyone else's.

I guess at the end of the day, all I can offer is the way I that I actually see this thread.

*I believe the thread is reffering to it revolving around Lana as opposed to it being a Lana-centric episode (which it was not). In that sense, it is what a lot of fans have always hated from the beginning. It's the "Everyone has to fall in love with her" pounding that they get from TPTB......so naturally they scream..."enough already!"........even with the fact that TPTB have been building up to this so called Clark/Lana/Lex triangle for a long time.

*While I myself have had my fill with the "everyone has to fall in love with Lana" plot.......I still enjoyed Lexmas because it was a good story....and they have laid off the Lana fixation of late.....at least enough for me.....doesn't mean it has to be enough for other people. Then again.....the fact that she didn't once come accross as snotty, hypocritical, or self righteous (Lana handing Clark's medical file to Lex always comes to mind for this season when thinking this).....was probably another factor in this for me. I think that I only just now fully realized that element of it with regards to Lexmas.....hummm...interesting. Actually, I would prefer them removing that element of her personality....even over forcing her into the mythos beyond what she's supposed to be. Of the two, I think her personality is more of a factor for this hate that you speak of......more than just being forced into storylines.....although the latter doesn't help either.....not by a long shot.

* I also believe (and this is just my opinion....don't shoot the messenger)...that if KK's performances were at the level (or at least close enough) of say Michael Rosenbaum or John Glover, it would force a lot of people to just plain shut up.....or at the very least....there would be a lot less critiques about KK's abilities. If that level of acting were truly there.....I think even the haters would begrudgingly back off on this point. Of course, no one should expect a 100% agreement on that......you'll always have those on both sides who will give no quarter....unfair as their arguments may be. For me, in Lexmas, KK gave a really good performance.....especially considering that she had to be opposite Rosenbaum who was absolutely brilliant in this episode. But again....this is just my opinion.....doesn't necessarily mean that I'm right.....even though I truly believe that I am.

All I can say in closing is that rewinding just to see a scene with Lana & Lex sure beats fast forwarding through most Lana scenes. And it's hard to believe I actually did that a lot with Lexmas. I'll just have to wait and see if the next batch of episodes can keep this up.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by CK&CK
Actually, you make me laugh. What a waste of time this conversation was.....oh well, as I always say, I'll take it with a grain of salt. Can't live an learn without getting into some useless conversations.........even that provides some experience. I just hope that the Smallville writers have learned from theirs. So far.....and especially with Lexmas.....it appears that they have. However, the season ain't over yet.......we'll just have to all wait and see.

You make me laugh also. You're not too bad for a "hater."

[Sweetie]

I know some fans are upset because others don't share the same Lana's interest like them.But,we still love and enjoy the show.Can we have different opinions from yours?If you don't like our comments why do you come here?You always feel the need to defend yourself:you all LOVE Lana(we understand that) and you're always saying the same things all over again.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Sweetie
I know some fans are upset because others don't share the same Lana's interest like them.But,we still love and enjoy the show.Can we have different opinions from yours?If you don't like our comments why do you come here?You always feel the need to defend yourself:you all LOVE Lana(we understand that) and you're always saying the same things all over again.

???? Your post makes no sense.

[cayayofm]

Originally posted by PeteM
You missing it. I DON'T CARE THAT THEY HATE LANA. I NEVER HAVE.

I'm not on a mission to make anybody like her. I don't care about changing anybody's view points or opinions.

On the other hand, it seems many are on a mission to make people hate her or displace her in the SV hierarchy. Why the constant bashing of a character.

You don't see anybody going on and on about how great Lana is do you?

Just because the haters give long winded explanations for the hatred makes it no more compelling or justified. Who cares why they hate a character? You allege that people hate her because her character supposedly lack depth. But I also heard complaints such as she talks about her parents to much, she is too perfect (a Mary Sue), she wears to much pink, no one ever calls her out on her mistakes, . . . And my all time favorite, posters really don't hate her, they just hate the way she is written.

Yada, Yada.

Even if some complaints may have merit. Who really cares. It is their preference. It is an opinion and everyone has one. Just because Hitler wrote Mein Kemp, does it make his hatred of Jews more compelling.

My whole point is why can't they stop regurgitating why they hate her over and over again.

Because they can't stop reurging the same complaints make me doubt whether they can deal with the fact that she is the lead. And as the lead, she will have screen time and storylines.

I think that you are missing the point. I won't deny that there is always people who just will want to bash a character, but the majority of the people are just stating their opinions. As much as you dislike people starting threaths to bash her, I don't like people just telling the others to stop expressing what they want. I usually don't pay attention to bash post. I read it, if the post have a valid point I will reply, if is just "I hate her...." I just overlook it. It's not about agreeing with other people, is about understanding them and respect their opinion. If you think that she is a great character just post your views of her but don't dismiss people who point out good reasons of why they dislike her.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by cayayofm
I think that you are missing the point. I won't deny that there is always people who just will want to bash a character, but the majority of the people are just stating their opinions. As much as you dislike people starting threaths to bash her, I don't like people just telling the others to stop expressing what they want. I usually don't pay attention to bash post. I read it, if the post have a valid point I will reply, if is just "I hate her...." I just overlook it. It's not about agreeing with other people, is about understanding them and respect their opinion. If you think that she is a great character just post your views of her but don't dismiss people who point out good reasons of why they dislike her.


Thats all well and good if this thread was about why you like or dislike Lana. There is actually a thread with that title.

And if went on that thread and told people not to state their opinions, well-reasoned or not, then it is my bad.

But this thread originally wasn't asking for opinions about the Lana character. It has devolved into one because every thread involving Lana gets hijacked.


Originally posted by Sweetie
What?It's very simple.What didn't you understand?


Your whole point. No one on this thread has stated why they love Lana over and over again. The converse is true however.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by PeteM
???? Your post makes no sense.

What didn't you understand?It's very simple:People have the right to say their opinion even if it's totally different from yours.This thread was started by "a Lana's hater" so,why the Lana's fans came here,if they didn't like debates,they won't come.That's all I was trying to say:rolleyes:

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Sweetie
What didn't you understand?It's very simple:People have the right to say their opinion even if it's totally different from yours.This thread was started by "a Lana's hater" so,why the Lana's fans came here,if they didn't like debates,they won't come.That's all I was trying to say:rolleyes:

See above. This thread even is it was started by a Lana hater wasn't about whether you like or hate Lana. It was about Lana's role in Lexmas, which invited some good discussions. It devolved into this mess when haters started regurgitating their complaints on why they hate Lana.

[margroks]

The title of the thread was not, "Lana sucks or I hate Lana" but the query: "Why does everything have to revolve around Lana," and as such seems legitimate since it's a question many people have had from the beginning.

Again I ask that posters not be characterized as a "hater" of anyone just because they offer up opinions and explanations that their own POV. Name calling is hardly the same thing as offering up a cogent argument for your particular POV.

As for Lana disliking Freaks, I continue to see it otherwise based on that and other evidence. As above, she one said it would be okay if CLark were different when he after he said he wasn't. And, if we advance to the end of Hidden where Lana offers up Clark's medical records to Lex, an ill thought out move to be sure, Lex quite aptly reads it as an attempt on Lana's part to convince herself that Clark is normal so she can justify having a relationship with him. Lex knows Lana well and knows what she's really like. Lana is not at all nice on the inside at times, willing to cheat on her boyfriends, something Lex has seen himself and he knows she doesn't like people who are different. Lex, however much he leans toward the dark, deceitful side, reads people very well and he sees through Lana quite easily.

Even Clark, who isn't always able to read people like he should (Alicia being a good example) sees through Lana and knows she'd reject him if she knew. That he still chases after her knowing this only speaks further to the illogical importance given her because the producers are inordinantly fascinated by her character to the detriment of the show. Using her appropriately is one thing but when every aspect leads back to her and she becomes the reason for almost everything that happens does place her in a position of importance that takes away the free will of other characters and the choices they should make without Lana Lang being of supreme importance in them.

Plus, it's supremely creepy that Lex, after saying he was trying to help Clark win Lana Lang initially, is now being shown as having a thing for her himself. That's just squicky. Not only due to the age difference but because it makes it seem Lex has lied about being so helpful to Clark regarding his crush on Lana all along. It would seem more realistic if we saw Lex using Lana to get to Clark, which is what we've seen occasionally in eps like those dealing with Adam, for instance. But this, in addition to displaying more of that same focus of everyone, including aliens from other galaxies, are mesmerized by Lana for no understandable reason and no matter how unpleasant she can be.

Perhaps Lex likes that not nice side to her and that's why but it's still plain creepy.

[yellowqueen22]

Reminder - Please keep on topic. This thread is meant to be discussing why everything revolves around Lana in LEXMAS. This is NOT meant as a Lana love/hate thread. Additionally, don't turn this thread into a personal argument with another member. Everyone is welcome to like or dislike Lana, but that isn't what this thread is about. Please stay on topic. This is my second warning.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by PeteM
See above. This thread even is it was started by a Lana hater wasn't about whether you like or hate Lana. It was about Lana's role in Lexmas, which invited some good discussions. It devolved into this mess when haters started regurgitating their complaints on why they hate Lana.

You didn't understand my point again.This guy was trying to be sarcastic with this thread.You guys should be wiser than that and don't respond to someone like that.There're enough of these never ending threads already.That's all I was saying;)

[Damali]

Originally posted by CK&CK *While I myself have had my fill with the "everyone has to fall in love with Lana" plot. Then again.....the fact that she didn't once come accross as snotty, hypocritical, or self righteous (Lana handing Clark's medical file to Lex always comes to mind for this season when thinking this).....was probably another factor in this for me.
Lana might have been snotty, or even self-rigtheous in an epi or two, but we're nearing the 100th epi. Lana has not been all of those things for the past 100 shows. She's been understanding, useful, helpful, trusting and whole list of other things. I just see more positive then negative aspects about the character.

As for everyone falling in love with her can't really say you're wrong on that score, but the writers use Lana as an Object of Desire and that isn't a problem for me.


even over forcing her into the mythos beyond what she's supposed to be. Of the two, I think her personality is more of a factor for this hate that you speak of......more than just being forced into storylines.....although the latter doesn't help either.....not by a long shot.
The whole mythos debate.....well is a little...I'll say... weak IMO. Smallville isn't following a past Superman Timeline. Smallville is it's own world, characters and histories have been altered, new characters that never existed are now a part of Clark Kents life. Saying that Lana is being "forced beyond what she's supposed to be" is no different than all the other things that Smallville has changed from its source material. But then again how is a Lead forced into a storyline? IMO if the writers feature Lana heavily in one epi, its agrued that she is being forced in. If the writers scale back her character in another epi, those same posters will agrue how useless she is. Even though the writers actually did what they wanted.


* I also believe (and this is just my opinion....don't shoot the messenger)...that if KK's performances were at the level (or at least close enough) of say Michael Rosenbaum or John Glover, it would force a lot of people to just plain shut up.....or at the very least....there would be a lot less critiques about KK's abilities. If that level of acting were truly there.....I think even the haters would begrudgingly back off on this point. Of course, no one should expect a 100% agreement on that......you'll always have those on both sides who will give no quarter....unfair as their arguments may be.
All I can say, is that I don't have a problem with KK's acting abilities. I'm not calling her the next Meryl Streep but she's hardly Paris Hilton. And yes neither side will move on their stance, but anti-Lana fans bring up her faults more times then not, over and over.



*I believe the thread is reffering to it revolving around Lana as opposed to it being a Lana-centric episode (which it was not). In that sense, it is what a lot of fans have always hated from the beginning.
IMO, Lex's decision at the end of "Lexmas" revolved more around his parents actions, as has been Lex's motives in the past for doing certain things. So when someone says that Lana caused Lex's turn to the darkside, that statement disregards years of watching Lex develop as a character. I agrued this point, but this thread got way off topic.

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by Damali
All I can say, is that I don't have a problem with KK's acting abilities. I'm not calling her the next Merlyl Streep but she's hardly Paris Hilton. And yes neither side will move on their stance, but anti-Lana fans bring up her faults more times then not, over and over.

You're right her acting is fine. When they put her in real situations she shines like here in Lexmas. She played Lex's loving wife beautifully. However the writers keep shoving her into silly things like being a vampire and a witch. I think she did great given the ridiclous arcs and campy dialog they give her.


IMO, Lex's decision at the end of "Lexmas" revovled more around his parents actions, as has been Lex's motives in the past for doing certain things. So when someone says that Lana caused Lex's turn to the darkside, that statement disregards years of watching Lex develop as a character. I agrued this point, but this thread got way off topic.

Exactly. It's about Lex not having the power to control everything. For those who are griping about Lana playing the part of his wife, who else should they have used that would have been better? All the women in his past betrayed him. He has shown no interest in Chloe or Lois. They would have been reduced to creating some girl we've never seen before and make us believe that Lex falls in love with her in a timespan of one day in his dream.

[Damali]

Originally posted by GhostRider
Exactly. It's about Lex not having the power to control everything. For those who are griping about Lana playing the part of his wife, who else should they have used that would have been better? All the women in his past betrayed him. He has shown no interest in Chloe or Lois. They would have been reduced to creating some girl we've never seen before and make us believe that Lex falls in love with her in a timespan of one day in his dream.

I agree, Lana was the best fit to play Lex's wife given, the current nature of the show and that fact that TPTB want to explore Lexana, it just makes the most sense.

What I thought was most interesting about "Lexmas" was the whole play of good and evil in Lex's life. While Lillian is showing Lex a future with happiness, Lionel is making unnecassary decisions that could have killed his son. So when Lex wakes up from his dream/ AU....he is really pissed.

I know the agruement has be made that Lana's death inspires this decision. But the actions of Lex's parents IMO drives his choices. Lex goes to his father in his dream and he denies Lex of what he needs and I think that's really the point. Lionel could still control Lex even though in his dream/AU, he cut himself off from Lionel.

He's pissed at his dad for what happen in the dream/AU and for making life-threatening medical choices. I think at this point Lex's anger is overriding everything else. He makes a snap decision because control is the one thing Lex will never give up and money/power gives a person a certain level of control. I'm not even convinced that Lex thinks he has turned bad, shady business practices is nothing new, Lex believe's he is securing his happiness.

[GhostRider]

Originally posted by Damali
I know the agruement has be made that Lana's death inspires this decision. But the actions of Lex's parents IMO drives his choices. Lex goes to his father in his dream and he denies Lex of what he needs and I think that's really the point. Lionel could still control Lex even though in his dream/AU, he cut himself off from Lionel.

I agree, it's not so much Lana's death but the death of another person he loves. He said as much when he pointed out Lillian died. I wish they had given him another love interest this year and used her instead because I despise Lexana but they didn't and so Lana is the only one that made sense here.

This is a parallel. All three (Lex, Lana, and Clark) are terrified about losing the people they love. Lana has had abondonment issuese from the beginning because of it. Clark is dreading losing someone close to him. And here we see it's concequences on Lex, pushing him over the edge to do whatever it takes to attain the power to stop it. That has always been the difference between Lex and Clark, for Lex the end justifies the means. But Clark imposes limits on himself.

[SmallvilleMan]

Lana might have been snotty, or even self-rigtheous in an epi or two, but we're nearing the 100th epi. Lana has not been all of those things for the past 100 shows. She's been understanding, useful, helpful, trusting and whole list of other things. I just see more positive then negative aspects about the character

Except the lana haters don't want to see that. It's like if I was talking about chloe and how great she's been, but instead i talked about her in season 2. As for Lexmas, they played it right and there was nothing wrong with it to me.

[my3cats]

I think this storyline would have been much more powerful if they had used an entirely new character in the "wife" role.
We've seen through-out the entire series how incapable Real-Lana is of being stable emotional support for anyone, she just doesn't "fit" in that role, it's distracting, and it reminds veiwers of the nightmare scenario we all dread, (Lex doing nothing but moon and pine over Lana forthe entire rest of the series :mad: )
A new character wouldn't have time for alot of developement, but at least wouldn't have the 5 years worth of Lana baggage, which distracts from the real meaning and symbolism of the ep.

[Sweetie]

Originally posted by my3cats
I think this storyline would have been much more powerful if they had used an entirely new character in the "wife" role.
We've seen through-out the entire series how incapable Real-Lana is of being stable emotional support for anyone, she just doesn't "fit" in that role, it's distracting, and it reminds veiwers of the nightmare scenario we all dread, (Lex doing nothing but moon and pine over Lana forthe entire rest of the series :mad: )
A new character wouldn't have time for alot of developement, but at least wouldn't have the 5 years worth of Lana baggage, which distracts from the real meaning and symbolism of the ep.


I totally agree.

[Damali]

Originally posted by my3cats
I think this storyline would have been much more powerful if they had used an entirely new character in the "wife" role.

Why would a new character be better? They used Lana because their is a backstory between the characters it, makes the most sense. The writers are moving towards Lexana, so why would they write a character that noone has ever meet? The writers could have done a number of things they could have used Helen. They could've had Lex wishing that, that relationship worked out, but they didn't. However adding a new character doesn't make much sense IMO. Why would the audinece even care about her, why would Lex turn his back on his father for a life with a woman we know nothing about? Wouldn't everyone ask questions like, where did this chick come from? Where's her family? Why are they even in Smallville? How did they meet? I think a new character with NO history would have complicated the story.


We've seen through-out the entire series how incapable Real-Lana is of being stable emotional support for anyone, she just doesn't "fit" in that role, it's distracting, and it reminds veiwers of the nightmare scenario we all dread, (Lex doing nothing but moon and pine over Lana forthe entire rest of the series :mad: )

I can't recall Lana being incapable of emotional support. Could you give me an example where what you're saying actually applies to this episode?

As for Lex mooning and pining over Lana, unless there's a hidden room in the Luthor Liar devote to Lana, I don't see Lex doing the whole brooding thing.

[PeteM]

Originally posted by Sweetie
You didn't understand my point again.This guy was trying to be sarcastic with this thread.You guys should be wiser than that and don't respond to someone like that.There're enough of these never ending threads already.That's all I was saying;)

Apparently the guy has the moderators confused also.


Originally posted by yellowqueen22
Reminder - Please keep on topic. This thread is meant to be discussing why everything revolves around Lana in LEXMAS. This is NOT meant as a Lana love/hate thread. Additionally, don't turn this thread into a personal argument with another member. Everyone is welcome to like or dislike Lana, but that isn't what this thread is about. Please stay on topic. This is my second warning.

[tomwellingishott]

yes I was surprised it took over 200 posts just to put the thread back on topic... well as close to on-topic as its gonna get at least :D . I think that the writers made the mistake of making it seem like Lex's point of no return to an evil life was Lana's fault. Sure, many think that "everything is Lana's fault" and in many cases I agree, but Lex's downfall was by no means Lana's doing. The writers poorly demonstrated that Lex was already evil, and has been for quite some time. Lex did not become evil in Lexmas, therefore Lana had no fault in the matter.

**In regards to smallville fans posting negative opinions about Lana, let them be! ;) That is their opinion. If you disagree, calmly and rationally state your opinion. On the other hand, If you find a person is seriously bashing a character, don't give them the satisfaction of getting angry. Just don't comment on their post. They have the right to dislike Lana, or they can love her. If you find these comments too traumatizing for your eyes... don't read the post! It is as simple as that :)

[attitudejc]

in an interview with Tom, with one of the questions, one of his last lines was, and i quote "But Lana is the center of humanity in Clarks World". this is just how it is gonna be because the writers wrote Lana that way, and we people who don't like it, are just gonna have to deal with it cause there is nothing we can do.

[CK&CK]

Originally posted by attitudejc
in an interview with Tom, with one of the questions, one of his last lines was, and i quote "But Lana is the center of humanity in Clarks World". this is just how it is gonna be because the writers wrote Lana that way, and we people who don't like it, are just gonna have to deal with it cause there is nothing we can do.

Interesting......espeically if the quote is true.

[Jlvsclrk]

Originally posted by CK&CK
Interesting......espeically if the quote is true.

Yeah, its from the last Smallville magazine.

[margroks]

Everyone is terrified of losing those they love. It's a traumatic event but one which we must all endure at one time or another. Clark alone has more reason to fear it than most since he has to deal with not only the loss of his entire planet and culture as well as his immediate family members yet he doesn't turn out to an anything goes evil mastermind.

Lex, however, completely embraces that because to him the end justifies the means. It's part of his gradual but inevitable slide into darkness because of his upbringing and he didn't really need a lightswitch moment like Lana dying to push him over the edge. It would have happened and happened more organically without that but the writers just had to use Lana as the pivot point and it was a weak explanation at best. That Lex would even use someone's death as a justification for embracing his father's philosophy is ridiculous in and of itself but to use Lana instead of, say, one or both of his children whom most people would consider the greatest loss of all does beg the question why. The producers' and writers' fixation on Lana beyond what would normally be given to even a lead character is one possible and not unlikely conclusion.

[attitudejc]

Originally posted by margroks
Everyone is terrified of losing those they love. It's a traumatic event but one which we must all endure at one time or another. Clark alone has more reason to fear it than most since he has to deal with not only the loss of his entire planet and culture as well as his immediate family members yet he doesn't turn out to an anything goes evil mastermind.

Lex, however, completely embraces that because to him the end justifies the means. It's part of his gradual but inevitable slide into darkness because of his upbringing and he didn't really need a lightswitch moment like Lana dying to push him over the edge. It would have happened and happened more organically without that but the writers just had to use Lana as the pivot point and it was a weak explanation at best. That Lex would even use someone's death as a justification for embracing his father's philosophy is ridiculous in and of itself but to use Lana instead of, say, one or both of his children whom most people would consider the greatest loss of all does beg the question why. The producers' and writers' fixation on Lana beyond what would normally be given to even a lead character is one possible and not unlikely conclusion.

yeah. thats kinda what i said way back in the beginning. so i agree.

[Jlvsclrk]

The more I think of it, the more I think Lexmas has nothing to do with Lex continuing down the past of evil. I see it as a chance for him to have turned BACK from where his life has inevitably leading since S3. So Lex is given a chance to see what a life of love is like, and for him its just not enough. Because love means relying on your loved one - it makes you vulnerable. Its not the death of Lana per se that makes him come to his conclusion - its just the realisation that inevitably everyone dies, and the more you care for them, the more it hurts when they do.

[No-El]

Originally posted by my3cats
I think this storyline would have been much more powerful if they had used an entirely new character in the "wife" role.
We've seen through-out the entire series how incapable Real-Lana is of being stable emotional support for anyone, she just doesn't "fit" in that role, it's distracting, and it reminds veiwers of the nightmare scenario we all dread, (Lex doing nothing but moon and pine over Lana forthe entire rest of the series :mad: )
A new character wouldn't have time for alot of developement, but at least wouldn't have the 5 years worth of Lana baggage, which distracts from the real meaning and symbolism of the ep.


WORD!!!

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Jlvsclrk
The more I think of it, the more I think Lexmas has nothing to do with Lex continuing down the past of evil. I see it as a chance for him to have turned BACK from where his life has inevitably leading since S3. So Lex is given a chance to see what a life of love is like, and for him its just not enough. Because love means relying on your loved one - it makes you vulnerable. Its not the death of Lana per se that makes him come to his conclusion - its just the realisation that inevitably everyone dies, and the more you care for them, the more it hurts when they do.
I agree. I think Lex has been on this path since the Pilot, and he is so charming, we easily forget the dishonest things he does. I think Lex is using his dream as an excuse to do what he intended to do all along -- use any means necessary to win the Senate seat. If he hadn't run into the muggers, he would have come up with some other justification by the next day.

And I disagree that it could have been a new, anonymous person as Lex's wife. The whole point of the vision is to dramatize the "perfect" life, and this can only be done with a woman that Lex considers to be a good person, which is Lana. Other women Lex uses and tosses away, or they betray him. Whatever we may think of Lana, Lex has always shown that he considers her to be someone he can trust. And it's his viewpoint that counts. Lana is the logical choice for his dream life scenario.

[pocketfullokryptonite]

I think we forget that at the beginning of Lexmas, Lex was already meeting with the guy that was going to smear JK. The dream his mother showed him was her attempt to show him that he could turn back from it, all the good things he could have. Even so, he sees all of the love he could have, but he still somehow comes out of the dream with the wrong idea (or a different one than his mother was trying to show him), that he can still make the choice to screw JK out of the race and the power he gains will help him to get the happiness (and Lana) anyways. I think this shows that he was pretty sure he was going down the "evil" path, and it was gonna take a lot more than this dream to make him change. Lana dying in his dream wasn't the turning point of Lex's choice b/w good and evil, just another marker along the way that shows how far down the power hungry path he's getting.

[montevallo]

Originally posted by smallvilleusedtobegood
basically saying the reason Lex goes bad is because of Lana.


:rolleyes: please in case you didn't notice, lex was alreadywell on his way to being evil. you'd have to be blind not to notice that. even if he didnt have the vision, he still would have gone evil, it just sped up the process.

lex was already bad, GOD!

[I am the Superman]

because lana is freeken hot.

[tomwellingishott]

Originally posted by I am the Superman
because lana is freeken hot.
:lol: thants a good reason for most guys I guess lol

[azi]

First, I loved the episode (with the exception of Lana), but for God's sake why does EVERYTHING and everyone have to revolve around Lana?

I don't know ..out of stupidity perhaps.
I also don't undrestend why Lex lost his money. At the moment he is the head of Luthorcorp and his father doesn't have control of the company (season 4). I am not surprise with his choice !After 8 years of happiness he ends up alone with two kids and no money!For God's sake the writers should come up with something more interesting!