Is Jor-El's bargain now completed?

[Mark A Superfan]

I might be misremembering. Did Jor-El's "return-the-powers" bargain with Clark specify that someone Clarked LOVED must die, or only someone Clark cared about or was close to? Because if it was the latter, then the death of Prof. Fine was definitely the demise of someone Clark felt close to and cared about.
Is there any chance that the writers snuck this one in on us so we would spend all season thinking some other cast member would be bumped off?
Just wondering ...

[MidgardDragon]

Unfortunately I don't have Hidden to rewatch and find out about the bargain. However, I remember him saying someone you love. It might have been someone you care about. But, either way, it's highly unlikely that it is Brainiac.

One thing, though, didn't TPTB say that there will be two deaths this season? In that case, I think Brainiac's eventual demise (he's not dead yet, remember him and his ship disappeared) will be one of those deaths, and Clark's loved on will be the other one. My guess on this is it will be Jonathon for the loved one, and Prof. Fine for the other death. I partially say this because I sincerely hope the only other possibility I see for death #2 (Lionel) doesn't happen. John Glover gives far too much to the show to go IMO.

[jimmyolsenblues]

I have said it before , Clark's darkest days are ahead. Jonathan kent is a goner, and Jor-El is come to collect.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Here's a theory!!!!
a flawed theory it might be......

PERHAPS Jor-el "saw" how Clark reacted when Martha was dieing and decided that was going to take a different life instead of soemone that is close to him.

So...the two deaths that will happen this season might be Lionel and the Sheriff!
It's just an idea that came to me....
I am very interested in how they will play this out. I love Smallville, just when I thought I know what is going to happen...BAM they surprise me!

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Mark A Superfan
Did Jor-El's "return-the-powers" bargain with Clark specify that someone Clarked LOVED must die, or only someone Clark cared about or was close to?

He said both: "close to" and "love."

[mercster]

Why are people going Jor-el will take the life.. I think he is really misunderstood, i remember Jor-el distinctly saying "There is a balance in nature" and "unfortunately" this life that he has been given will be taken from someone close to you.. someone you love. Now is it just me or is Jor-el saying he has no power or control over who it is thats going to die. Jor-el is saying that its nature that wants to maintain the balance, therefore I think it will be a natural death, which makes me think it will be Jonathan with his heart problems. Cant be Chloe coz she cant die of a natural death, she doesn't have any health problems. Apart from the congenital insanity hanging over her head.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by mercster
Why are people going Jor-el will take the life.. I think he is really misunderstood, i remember Jor-el distinctly saying "There is a balance in nature" and "unfortunately" this life that he has been given will be taken from someone close to you.. someone you love. Now is it just me or is Jor-el saying he has no power or control over who it is thats going to die. Jor-el is saying that its nature that wants to maintain the balance, therefore I think it will be a natural death, which makes me think it will be Jonathan with his heart problems. Cant be Chloe coz she cant die of a natural death, she doesn't have any health problems. Apart from the congenital insanity hanging over her head.


This is what I've been trying to say all along. Jor-El never said "I'm going to kill someone in exchange for your life." He said "Someone close to you, someone you love, will die." And a bunch of stuff about nature and it not being his choice. The only bad thing Jor-El did was not give Clark a choice. He brought him back to life even though Clark would have gladly died in exchange for his loved ones' lives. I think Jor-El has some kind of foresight into the future, and knows that Clark's destiny is worth sacrificing one life, even if Clark/Superman will never agree with that decision.

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
I think Jor-El has some kind of foresight into the future, and knows that Clark's destiny is worth sacrificing one life, even if Clark/Superman will never agree with that decision.
I was thinking, and I posted this elsewhere, that sacrifice is the key concept here. I'm guessing someone will have to sacrifice his/her own life in order to save Clark, something that wouldn't have happened if Clark had been killed. It won't just be a matter of Jor-El taking someone's life. And it won't just be something that happens out of the blue. The fact that Clark is alive brings about this event. But this is just a guess. We'll have to wait and see.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by Watching Smallville
I was thinking, and I posted this elsewhere, that sacrifice is the key concept here. I'm guessing someone will have to sacrifice his/her own life in order to save Clark, something that wouldn't have happened if Clark had been killed. It won't just be a matter of Jor-El taking someone's life. And it won't just be something that happens out of the blue. The fact that Clark is alive brings about this event. But this is just a guess. We'll have to wait and see.

That's a very good theory, and one I hadn't thought of! It does certainly make sense, and I'd be very happy if TPTB went this way with the death. The whole "every action has consequences" thing. Like in the movie "The Butterfly Effect", when Ashton's character does one thing in the past that fixes something, it changes something else in the future, often negatively. So Clark's resurrection will have consequences on the future, because that is the natural order of things. Jor-El's warning to him wasn't a threat, that much we know. If your theory is ture (and I sincerely hope it is) then Jor-El was warning his son in order to give him a chance to come to terms with something he has no control over. It was a Fatherly and Loving thing to do. This is the thing about Jor-El, after everything he's done, I dont' think we can say any of it was truly evil, I think he's just very misunderstood.

[mercster]

Now there are 4 people who love Clark.. Ma and Pa Kent, Chloe and Lana, i personally am not a fan of Lana I mean if she wasn't part of the superman mythos, everyone would be screaming please let it be Lana!!, tptb haven't done much with her character, well atleast not much i like (the Witch arc was awfull, there are so many unanswered questions with it and nobody is asking them coz they dont want the story to return). Now if it the sacrifice thing they are gonna go with, i want them to use it to give Clark the idea of dual identities to separate his life from his heroic actions, just to keep his loved ones safe. And then show the brilliance of the idea of making Clark Kent the fake person, and superman the real him.

[wallyK]

The "balance of nature" business is a purposely vague explanation. Does Jor-El actively collect a life force, or is it taken automatically.?If it is an automatic "nature" type deal, then why wasn't the life force collected the same moment Clark was resurrected? Why does it have to somebody close to him? And since Clark has no biological parents living on Earth, you cannot even say that his life force is logically connected to somebody else's life force. It would make the most sense if a Kyptonian life was was needed to resurrect Clark.

The answer comes from knowing what the writers are trying to accomplish. The "balance of nature" is a plot device to get a certain story outcome. And there's nothing wrong with a plot device. Just don't try to understand it too much, because it probably does not stand up to a lot of scrutiny. In the real world, new lives are created all the time, without there having to be N deaths to balance them out. That is why the world's population is growing! When a new life is created, Nature does not do any kind of exchange of lives.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by wallyK
The "balance of nature" business is a purposely vague explanation. Does Jor-El actively collect a life force, or is it taken automatically.?If it is an automatic "nature" type deal, then why wasn't the life force collected the same moment Clark was resurrected? Why does it have to somebody close to him? And since Clark has no biological parents living on Earth, you cannot even say that his life force is logically connected to somebody else's life force. It would make the most sense if a Kyptonian life was was needed to resurrect Clark.

The answer comes from knowing what the writers are trying to accomplish. The "balance of nature" is a plot device to get a certain story outcome. And there's nothing wrong with a plot device. Just don't try to understand it too much, because it probably does not stand up to a lot of scrutiny. In the real world, new lives are created all the time, without there having to be N deaths to balance them out. That is why the world's population is growing! When a new life is created, Nature does not do any kind of exchange of lives.

Clark's life force is much more logically connected to his friends and family than to any Kryptonians that he hardly knows. I think the life force wasn't collected immediately because the life will be taken due to Clark's presence (maybe Pa Kent protecting his secret, whereas if Clark was still dead Pa Kent wouldn't have to do so.)

And remember, being brought back from the dead is far different from being born. Being born is a natural part of life. Being brought back from death is unnatural, and this unnatural event obviously starts a chain of events in the natural world that leads to this death. All just my speculation, but I think you can easily read that into the plot without stretching too far.

Also, I doubt Jor-El has anything to do with the life being taken. The only sin he's committed is not giving Clark a choice to be brought back (but that was probably not possible). Obviously he thought it was for the greater good (and he's probably right). I think this "evil" Jor-El is just people's perception of a Kryptonian's attitude, and that Jor-El is just as benevolent as he was in the movies. He's just "misunderstood".

ETA: Oh, and one more thing. About plot devices. Good ones inspire thought in the audience. These theories and speculation are all a product of a good plot device, and they're a good thing for any show to inspire.

[watcher4]

WOW! What a simpleton I am! All I was thinking is that Pa Kent would die as a consequence of a bad heart coupled with the "stressors" of running for senate and the information that Lex gets on him that would destroy him.

[Mark A Superfan]

But what about my clever question in the first place -- that the "one who was to die" was Fine/Brainiac?

[Watching Smallville]

Jor-El said someone Clark loves. And it's scheduled for episode 100. So we're thinking it's one of the major regular cast members.

[Supersonic]

As suspensfeul as a major character death is, I really dont want it to happen. Everyone Clark loves is close o the viewer, and its prolly gonna hurt, whoever it is, when they die.

[watcher4]

I read an article somewhere about the upcoming death. The article stated that the death was "really going to sting".

[TECHWON]

PROLLY WILL BE JONATHEN KENT BUT WHO GONNA BE GONE BUT IT IS A REINTERPETATION OF SUPERMAN SO WHO KNOWS

[Mark A Superfan]

...Another thought. This is fantasy television. Since when is it always true that somebody STAYS dead when they are killed off?
Except for Lana. If she stayed dead, the rest of the show would be SO MUCH better off. The whining, the one-note voice, the lack of acting range...

[watcher4]

Originally posted by Mark A Superfan
...Another thought. This is fantasy television. Since when is it always true that somebody STAYS dead when they are killed off?
Except for Lana. If she stayed dead, the rest of the show would be SO MUCH better off. The whining, the one-note voice, the lack of acting range...

That comes primarily from the writers. Of course, Lana/KK does have something to do with it as well.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by Mark A Superfan
But what about my clever question in the first place -- that the "one who was to die" was Fine/Brainiac?

Well, for starters, we were given clues that Brainiac isn't actually dead. He disappeared, so there's no body. And the ship disappeared with him. He's also a super villain who is very unlikely to be that easily defeated. And do you think Kryptonian AI would be destroyed so easily? I doubt it. The only reason Clark won the fight between those two Kryptonians in the beginning of the season was because he had a handy-dandy Phantom Zone to throw them into. The only reason he's temporarily won this one is because Brainiac was caught off guard and needed to regroup.

Also, Brainiac wasn't one of the people Clark loved. TPTB said there will be two deaths this season. One will be someone Clark loves. The other I'm not sure about. It *could* be Brainiac later in the season (but I doubt it, they'll probably just send him back into space or the Phantom Zone or something.) Or it could be from the other list of possible cast members: Lionel, Chloe, Jonathon, or Martha. It'll either be two of those two, or one of those two and Brainiac IMHO.

[No-El]

Originally posted by Mark A Superfan
I might be misremembering. Did Jor-El's "return-the-powers" bargain with Clark specify that someone Clarked LOVED must die, or only someone Clark cared about or was close to? Because if it was the latter, then the death of Prof. Fine was definitely the demise of someone Clark felt close to and cared about.
Is there any chance that the writers snuck this one in on us so we would spend all season thinking some other cast member would be bumped off?
Just wondering ...


Here's the breakdown thus far:

Hidden: "....the life force which was returned to you will be taken from someon close to you....from someone....someone you love..."
separate statements spoken by Jor-El/Lionel/Oracle in the place at the same time frame.

Solitude: ".....the wheels of fate have already been set in motion...there is nothing you can do to prevent it...." Jor-El spoke the words when Clark/Kal-El asked him to cure Martha Kent his human mother, as Jor-El commented that he had nothing to do with her illness.

Clark to (Pa) Kent: ".....Jor-El's warning is still out there....."

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by Mark A Superfan
...Another thought. This is fantasy television. Since when is it always true that somebody STAYS dead when they are killed off?
Except for Lana. If she stayed dead, the rest of the show would be SO MUCH better off. The whining, the one-note voice, the lack of acting range...

Wow, we went from talking about an event on the show right into Lana-bashing. Not even a segue. Nice work. :rolleyes:

Whoever dies will very likely stay dead, otherwise I don't think TPTB would be making such a big deal out of it. But it won't be Lana, that I would bet my life on. ;)

[watcher4]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Wow, we went from talking about an event on the show right into Lana-bashing. Not even a segue. Nice work. :rolleyes:

Whoever dies will very likely stay dead, otherwise I don't think TPTB would be making such a big deal out of it. But it won't be Lana, that I would bet my life on. ;)

I read an article on the web-I believe it was a TV Guide website-that stated that the character who dies will not be coming back.

Strange-I was just reading a thread that started talking about Jonathan, then went to Lana-bashing.

[MidgardDragon]

Originally posted by watcher4
I read an article on the web-I believe it was a TV Guide website-that stated that the character who dies will not be coming back.

Strange-I was just reading a thread that started talking about Jonathan, then went to Lana-bashing.

I know. It's unfortunate, but it seems a lot of threads seem to be going that way lately. I wish it would stop just as much as you, but it seems that the Lana-bashers only get louder and louder.

[No-El]

I thought too this thread was about Jor-El's warning, which I still believe has not been fulfilled, until some human not Jor-El himself completes that action in the "wheel of fate which has been set in motion".

[wallyK]

Jor-El likes to talk about destiny. Is he really that powerful that he knows how future events will unfold? As somebody mentioned earlier, small events can have large impacts on the future, but you really only know that sort of thing by hindsight. Any small action you take right NOW could have great implications for how your future unfolds. That also goes for every small action, not to mention every large action. Unless you know what your future is "supposed to be", how do you know what actions are "interferring" with your future that "was intended"?

For Clark's action, the writers might say that bringing him back from death has created a disturbance in the life forces that are most connected to his, and that's why restoring the balance will necessarily involve somebody close to him. This is really gibberish, but it would work for the story explanation. It's a fancy way of saying that bringing back Clark means taking the life of somebody close to him.

[No-El]

Originally posted by wallyK
Jor-El likes to talk about destiny. Is he really that powerful that he knows how future events will unfold? As somebody mentioned earlier, small events can have large impacts on the future, but you really only know that sort of thing by hindsight. Any small action you take right NOW could have great implications for how your future unfolds. That also goes for every small action, not to mention every large action. Unless you know what your future is "supposed to be", how do you know what actions are "interferring" with your future that "was intended"?

For Clark's action, the writers might say that bringing him back from death has created a disturbance in the life forces that are most connected to his, and that's why restoring the balance will necessarily involve somebody close to him. This is really gibberish, but it would work for the story explanation. It's a fancy way of saying that bringing back Clark means taking the life of somebody close to him.

Remember two key points:

*Kryptonian technology is thousands of years advanced than Earth

*Jor-El REALLY does not know the future BUT, only within Kal-El's "sphere of influence and life"-----(Marlon Brando: Superman the Movie 1978....."your life shall be seen through mine as my life shall be seen through yours....the father becomes son and son the father....")

Sounds like Al Gough's Season's 3 'Relic' episode of Jor-El's diary found by Clark in the Kuwatche Cave!:cool: :cool: :cool:

[BladeMaster0182]

"Why are people going Jor-el will take the life.. I think he is really misunderstood, i remember Jor-el distinctly saying "There is a balance in nature" and "unfortunately" this life that he has been given will be taken from someone close to you.. someone you love. Now is it just me or is Jor-el saying he has no power or control over who it is thats going to die. Jor-el is saying that its nature that wants to maintain the balance, therefore I think it will be a natural death, which makes me think it will be Jonathan with his heart problems. Cant be Chloe coz she cant die of a natural death, she doesn't have any health problems. Apart from the congenital insanity hanging over her head." -mercster

well you have to think what they mean by natural death. Chloe could step out onto a busy metropolis road and forgot to look both ways and the next thig you know, some idiot speeding, comes around the corner and the next thing you know, chloe's in a bodybag. Now i hope tha doesn't happen because I've grown close to Chloe in this last two seasons. Hopefully they'll off Lana, but thats besides the point. That death could be consdered natural, or at the very least, out of anyone's hands. Of course, even though it wasn't the guys intention to kill her, clark will get pissed and kills him (intentionally or accidently), thus enters his darkness. Then Claky feels super guilty (but never gets caught, he's superman after all). it could very easily be like that, and be a pretty good episode. Of course the guy would have to be evil in some way and maybe be a meteor freak, but hey, it could work. All I'm saying is, keep your minds open. The TPTB tend to get very sneaky with this stuff.

[No-El]

Originally posted by watcher4
I read an article somewhere about the upcoming death. The article stated that the death was "really going to sting".


My curiousity is peeked----where, where is it so I could read it!!
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :( :( :( :confused:

[SuperDub2]

i highly doubt it that it was Fine, as he was never dear to clark

[watcher4]

Originally posted by No-El
My curiousity is peeked----where, where is it so I could read it!!
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :( :( :( :confused:

I do not remember the exact address. It was on the TV Guide website. The article said that the person who will die will stay dead.

[No-El]

Originally posted by watcher4
I do not remember the exact address. It was on the TV Guide website. The article said that the person who will die will stay dead.


Well, I guess one must except just that for now----3 month wait--and to believe the scene is in the can in post production already!!:( :( :( :( :( :( :mad: :\ :\ :\ :\

Talk about Al Gough's "St. Valentines Day Massacre"!!!!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Silent Kal]

I really like the theory that Jor-El's statement wasn't a threat but a prediction. Clark's decisions triggered a series of events that Jor-El couldn't stop. But what if it wasn't Clark's death that did it, but rather his choice to be "human"?

Once he realized that his powers were gone, what did he immediately do? He pursued the relationship with Lana that his fear of rejection/revelation had (perhaps rightly?) kept him from starting before.

What if his romantic relationship with Lana could end up getting someone killed (either of his/HER own sacrifice, or as a byproduct)? Clark would learn the painful lesson that part of his responsibility to his mission is that he can't let his personal feelings stand in the way of the greater good. And the consequences of pursuing his own good rather than the good of all could be dire.

(What if the "secrets and lies" that separated them for four years were a good thing after all?)

It's a stretch of a theory, sure. But it's interesting at the same time.

[No-El]

Originally posted by Silent Kal
I really like the theory that Jor-El's statement wasn't a threat but a prediction. Clark's decisions triggered a series of events that Jor-El couldn't stop. But what if it wasn't Clark's death that did it, but rather his choice to be "human"?

Once he realized that his powers were gone, what did he immediately do? He pursued the relationship with Lana that his fear of rejection/revelation had (perhaps rightly?) kept him from starting before.

What if his romantic relationship with Lana could end up getting someone killed (either of his/HER own sacrifice, or as a byproduct)? Clark would learn the painful lesson that part of his responsibility to his mission is that he can't let his personal feelings stand in the way of the greater good. And the consequences of pursuing his own good rather than the good of all could be dire.

(What if the "secrets and lies" that separated them for four years were a good thing after all?)

It's a stretch of a theory, sure. But it's interesting at the same time.


Also, it may well be Lex is part of the mix of events that WILL take place----remember his "declaration to Lana"---------

Commencement Episode---the helicopter scene:

Lana: You never cared about me Lex, all this time, all you cared about was getting your hands on that stone!!

Lex: (gently cupping her head in his hands) No Lana you're wrong....You mean more to me than you know!" (she gets in and helicopter takes off before meteors hit)

Splinter Episode---the mansion scene:

Lex: (looks at her and holds her gaze) I won't let anything happen.....you're my partner now...."

Lex may have his guys inadvertantly do some dirty work or something that will cause a domino effect----Jor-El's prediction to the "rectification"!:( :(

[watcher4]

Silent Kal, your theory is very intriguing-with a lot of thought put into it. Well done!!

[No-El]

Originally posted by watcher4
Silent Kal, your theory is very intriguing-with a lot of thought put into it. Well done!!


Yes it is, for Clark has risked too much by his actions and now the consequence of those actions, which Jor-El tried to warn him of.

[Mr. E]

I don't really think Clark loved Brainic nor do I think Jor-El thought he was close to Brainiac anyway.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Between Fine playing head games with Clark and then whoopin' up on him in the FOS (you don't come waltzing into Superman's bachelor pad and throw down - it's just tacky) and Jor-El's warning with the subsequent future death, I really, really hope the writers have Clark wise up a little.

You know, maybe listen to his Dad once in a while, or maybe even not get tricked into being screwed over. A little more Supes, a little less BDA, that's what I'm talkin' about!