Lllaaaaannnnnaaaaa!!!!!! [Archive] - KSiteTV Television & Movie Forums

lilo

11-18-2005, 08:45 AM

Originally posted by margroks
Actually, Chloe was there during her illness when she came to help. Lana is not the center of the universe and usually worsens any ep she's in and maybe, for once, Clark has his head on straight and doesn't forget the important things for his pathetic girlfriend. They didn't even mention where Martha was when Jennings came to visit so I wouldn't expect them to say something everytime, anyway. Frankly, no mention of Lana at all was fine by me. Those who know the secret are part of the family and Clark's inexplicable obsession with Lana still doesn't put her in that category, in any case. This was a family affair.

She's his GIRLFRIEND. It you would've said this last season, or any of the other season really, I would've agreed. But it's just not realistic to not include her in this episdoe without even a mention of where the heck she was.

EricN68

11-18-2005, 08:46 AM

The extra characters (Fine and Lois) inevitably means that other characters will see less screen time. I personally miss Lex -- we barely see him. But there will be Lex-heavy episodes coming, and probably Lana-heavy episodes coming. Fitting in all characters every episode just isn't doable.

Watching Smallville

11-18-2005, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by nevra
I don't think there necessarily has to be mention of an absent character.
The Kents aren't in every episode and neither is Lois. We don't need to hear why they weren't there.

I agree -- just because she isn't there doesn't mean she needs a mention. There was enough going on, and to divert to Lana just takes us on an unnecessary detour.

I'm not sure they could have done the same story with Lana around. How would Clark have explained what was happening to Martha? Maybe Lana could have had a scene with Lex, but then why wouldn't she visit the Kents if she were in Smallville?

Come to think of it, they need to resolve the Lana not knowing thing. It really does leave her out of the big events in Clark's life. I'm not a Clana fan, but how can KK be one of the three major stars of the show if she misses out on the central story lines?

son2380

11-18-2005, 08:53 AM

I think Lana and Lois are just taking turns with each ep. Each ep has to have a Double L character in it. Last nights ep was Lois Lane and next week will be Lana Lang

AnimeJoe

11-18-2005, 08:57 AM

When Chloe came to the Kent farm she wasn't visiting Martha, she came looking for Clark and was off to look for him after Pa Kent told her what's up...

And as huge of a CLANA fan that I am, Lana really wasn't needed in this episode. Heck, Lex didn't get THAT much important screen time neither. This episode was about Clark vs. Brainiac...

Or as I like to call them now, THE WONDER TWINS (Clark and Chloe) vs. Brainiac!

GhostRider

11-18-2005, 09:16 AM

They shouldn't shoehorn any character in the story if they're not necessary to the arcs being played out. However there should also be a reason for their absence. Although Lana wasn't mention she goes to college at Met U. now and that's enough reason for her not to be around.

sunshine1973

11-18-2005, 11:24 AM

geez! Lana is away at college in Metropolis probably looking for meteor showers on her laptop...:)

"They shouldn't shoehorn any character in the story if they're not necessary to the arcs being played out. However there should also be a reason for their absence. Although Lana wasn't mention she goes to college at Met U. now and that's enough reason for her not to be around."

I think this says it all.

smallville_fetish

11-18-2005, 11:31 AM

It wouldn't have hurt Clark if he gave her a call or drop her name once but he was pretty freakin occupied. Besides, Lana was in the hospitol recovering from Clark's bashing. Give the poor girl a break.

SmallvilleMan

11-18-2005, 11:33 AM

Yes, Chloe came to see Clark, she didn't come to see Mrs. Kent. Think she'd at least ask how Martha was doing.....

smallville_fetish

11-18-2005, 11:51 AM

I think she did ask. Or maybe she just asked where Clark was and ran away.

No-El

11-18-2005, 11:53 AM

Originally posted by rumpuso
See, I agree with the originator of this thread. No matter what the viewers' feelings are regarding Lana or the Clana relationship, Clark loves Lana and that alone should warrant at least a mention of her absence as they did in Exposed.

Probably no need seeing she's is still in the hospital recovering from the previous 'Splinter' episode with those needles and tubes sticking out of her!!:(

photogirl

11-18-2005, 01:06 PM

Clark needs to get over her!! Not to offend lana/clana fans but no lana=good episode!! I loved the missing lana!!

jimmyolsenblues

11-18-2005, 01:08 PM

just goes to show you can have a good show without her. food for thought.

SmallvilleMan

11-18-2005, 01:09 PM

Lana not being there didn't make it a good episode. Just go check exposed for an example
:D

Watching Smallville

11-18-2005, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by thmallville
WHERE THE HELL WAS SHE???!!! I mean, I understand KK was filming a movie, but no mention of her at all??!!! That's just stupid. I mean, in the last episode her boyfriend went crazy and tried to kill her, and now she just disppears??!! And no one mentioned her....sad, just sad.

When they took Martha to the hospital, maybe they dropped in to see her. Another one of Smallville's Off Camera Scenes. ;)

I do miss her when she's not on the show -- and this is coming from a Lois fan!

RedPhoenix23

11-18-2005, 01:29 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Lana not being there didn't make it a good episode. Just go check exposed for an example
:D

Word.

umm

11-18-2005, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by PETER WEST
Oh Happy Day, Their was no Lana at all in this SUPER episode. I love it. I hope we see less and less of her .

Yeah! Oh happy day........................:lol: :rotfl:

twelfthnight1

11-18-2005, 02:51 PM

Gosh RedPhoenix23, I can't wait for "Lexmas" too. The gallery they put up on the front news page makes me so happy. Lex and Lana look wonderful together.

About Lana not being in "Solitude", I was wondering if it had something to do with their future plans, like in regards to the election. When I had read that everyone was strategizing a campaign against Lex, I wondered how Lana would've reacted had she been there. I don't think she'd appreciate them thinking of using Lex's time at Belle Reve against him, and I imagine one day when they are discussing the campaign, that Lana will speak up for Lex. That's just my hope I know, but it would fit with this episode and maybe explain her absence. She couldn't engage in the talk against Lex and so, it was simpler to just have her not be there. Later, then they'll address her feelings in regards to him, Jonathan, and the senate race... Or it could be that KK wasn't available. I still wish they mentioned her somehow. Just like in "Exposed," the conversation with Clark and Lex, then with Clark and Lois. Oh well. My wish though, and I know so much else went on in "Solitude", but still - if Lana were mentioned, I would wish for it to be Lex who brings her up, *g*. Just in passing even, maybe means more to him than anyone else. Anyway, we're only 19 days away from "Lexmas" so you know. I can deal. And I just hope time flies between now and then. I so want to see it!! He looks so sweet looking at her. Too sweet!

AnimeJoe

11-18-2005, 03:09 PM

Lana doesn't trust Lex very much, she's pretty much been roasting him at every turn, I don't think at this point she's be bothered much by their campaigns against Lex. Later on down the line maybe, but at this point not really cause it seems that with everything that goes wrong she goes running to Lex to accuse him.

jaime,oburg

11-18-2005, 03:33 PM

Lana was not important to this episode, so storywise it was a good call to leave her out of this one. It would have been too forced to try and find a way for her to be worked in properly. IMHO she wasn't missed at all and I think the episode flowed better without her.
But I do empathize with the Lana fans. At least they could have come up with some lame SV excuse why she wasn't present. Another field trip perhaps.

CK&CK

11-18-2005, 03:45 PM

This episode flowed really well....and I think it's because they didn't have to force any characters (namely Lana) into the storyline. This should hopefully make future Lana centric episodes more palatable if she's woven well into those future storylines. But I guess I'll have to wait and see if I enjoy her presence or not. All I can say is that for the last 3 episodes at least, I haven't had much too complain about on the Lana front.....and to me....that speaks volumes. I loved Exposed, Splinter, & Solitude......EXCELLENT EPISODES!!!!!.........and I have to say that Solitude is definitely on my list of top all time Smallville favorites!

smoky

11-18-2005, 04:03 PM

Last season Michael R. wasn't shown very much AT ALL for the ENTIRE SEASON. Maybe this year its Kristin's turn.

Chloe fan1988

11-18-2005, 05:14 PM

I'm suprised that Clark didn't say "Mom, I know you're dying and all but I really need to go talk to Lana. See ya." Lana seems to be the most important thing in his life...which makes for a pretty lack-luster existence.

dizzy

11-18-2005, 05:18 PM

She was at Met U it's not like she could super speed her way to Smallville

smallvillerocks45

11-18-2005, 05:22 PM

You know, I noticed that Lana was missing in this episode, but it didn't bother me like it did in Exposed. It could be the fact that there was better writing in Solitude...or it could've been the F- Factor, Professor Milton Fine. I don't know what it was, but regardless, this episode did not suffer, in fact it was extremely enjoyable.

MetroGirl06

11-18-2005, 05:23 PM

No Lana = Good episode. So whats the problem?

Seriously, whats the big deal! She didnt get a mention, BIG SHOCK! I didnt even notice Lana was gone until the end of the episode. I was a little preoccupied with the main plot line of Clark's mom DIEING! There will be lots of Lana in future episodes.

Kreukie

11-18-2005, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by MetroGirl06
No Lana = Good episode. So whats the problem?

Exposed was the worst episode this season for a lot people. Get off your high horse! :lol:

jaime,oburg

11-18-2005, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Yes, Chloe came to see Clark, she didn't come to see Mrs. Kent. Think she'd at least ask how Martha was doing.....

She did better than ask how Martha was. She tried to help Clark stop what was happening to his mother. BTW Chloe saved Clark's ass again. Way better then participating in a Martha deathbed watch. Lois wasn't around because I don't think the Kents wanted her in on the Martha has a Kryptonian disease we are trying to find the cure for powwow. It's OK that Lana wasn't around. I don't think fans are hating on her for that.;)

Chlark828

11-18-2005, 08:17 PM

I don't really mind that Lana wasn't in this episode. I like Lois better, what was the whole car thing about though? i heard something about, "wait for Lois to be driving a red blah blah blah car" idk, so confused..and how could she afford a brand new fancy car and an appartment just from working at the Talon? watch her car just disappear now...

anyways..sorry i'm getting off topic
It looks like Lana will be showing up a lot in the episode Lexmas so those of you who miss her..i guess you can relax lol
personally i was happy with this episode...i don't care whos in episodes as long as the episodes are good (well...clark and chloe have to be in of course)

ClarksGirl21

11-18-2005, 08:47 PM

aww.. i miss lana too :(

liana

11-18-2005, 08:57 PM

I'm going to defend all the Smallville girls right now:

1) Lois: she didn't know Martha was sick. Clark certainly didn't tell her and Chloe didn't tell her either. She helped Chloe thinking she was going to investigate Lex, when, in fact, she was investigating Fine. If she knew, she would have visited Martha. Not everyone in the episode knows what is going on. This is a privilege that we, viewers, have but the characters don't.

2) Lana: Same as Lois, she just didn't know. Remember it all happened too fast, one and a half day. Clark was too concerned about stoping Jor-el to tell her. He just didn't have time to think about her. It doesn't mean he doesn't love her or anything like that, he was just scared he would lose his mum. That's all. The writers probably used this episode, while Kristin was doing her film, because it would have been hard to explain the kryptonian disease to Lana.

3)Chloe: She probably only discovered that Martha was sick when she arrived at the farm, looking for Clark. Remember, she was at the Daily Planet when Lionel met her and Lois came to the DP to look for her as well. I pretty much bet that Clark didn't pick up the phone to tell her either. When she arrived at the farm and saw Jonathan and Martha, and Jonathan told her that Clark was with Fine, she panicked. She knew she didn't have time to lose. That's why she didn't stay and chat, she acted. That's what, in the end, saved Clark, Martha and the world.

lanekent08

11-19-2005, 08:48 AM

I agree ...

Lois didn't know that Martha was sick, and the Kents probably didn't tell her because she had a strange Kryptonian disease, letting her know would have left Lois asking questions about Clark, she doesn't have to know yet. I'm pretty sure that if Martha was sick with an earthly disease, Lois would have been there. Remember that Martha is the mother Lois always wanted to have, and Martha loves Lois a lot.

Chloe knows the secret but focussed on helping Clark instead, it was something she needed to do urgently because they were running out of time.

And Lana... (despite the fact that I didn't miss her), had no point in being there. It is true that she's Clark's girlfriend, but they don't really trust each other. And the same as with Lois, Martha had a Krytonian disease. Lana doesn't know Clark's secret... how could they possibly explain to her what was Martha's problem and then how she miraculously healed.

I think the epi was perfect as it was.

smoky

11-19-2005, 08:56 AM

Clark suspected from the start that Martha had a Kryptonian disease, so of course he isn't going to tell Lana or Lois because they do not know his secret. This is the 5th season & KK/LL has ONLY MISSED 2 EPISODES! Why are some people panicking?

lanekent08

11-19-2005, 08:56 AM

I want to add something else.

About the car scene... with all due respect for all of you Lois haters, don't be jealous. If the procucers chose Lois for it, we should respect their decisions.

I personally do not like the Clana because I think it's leading to nowhere, but I actually like Lana as Clark's friend, the relationship is so much better.

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 09:00 AM

Originally posted by EricN68
The extra characters (Fine and Lois) inevitably means that other characters will see less screen time. I personally miss Lex -- we barely see him. But there will be Lex-heavy episodes coming, and probably Lana-heavy episodes coming. Fitting in all characters every episode just isn't doable.

Unless your name is supergirl Chloe. Then you can be in almost every scene (it seems anyway) and save Superman every chance you get.

captaincharisma

11-19-2005, 09:03 AM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
Unless your name is supergirl Chloe. Then you can be in almost every scene (it seems anyway) and save Superman every chance you get.

~yawns~ she should be renamed as almiles&goughs girl. They becoming too obvious in who they like. Maybe they should change the name of the show to Sullivansville, i'm sure they thought about that one...

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 09:06 AM

It's so obvious Chloe's like the center of the show now. Maybe she's even in more scenes than Clark. And people here used to complain that TPTB love Lana? No, I think it's their Chloe character who has nothing at all to do with the Superman mythology. :rolleyes:

I'm about done with this show, and of course that's just my personal choice.

djpnutz

11-19-2005, 09:08 AM

Maybe she was still in the hospital because of clark's thrashing. Who knows?

mkitty3

11-19-2005, 10:36 AM

~yawns~ she should be renamed as almiles&goughs girl. They becoming too obvious in who they like. Maybe they should change the name of the show to Sullivansville, i'm sure they thought about that one...

Wow! This is coming after an entire season of having Lana shoved down our throats in a story arc that rarely had anything to do with Superman. Are you forgetting Lana the witch and the three stones of plot contrivance?!!!

Chloe is finally getting some much deserved screen time, probably because she is such a strong actress and a fan favorite. It may also have something to do with the ratings plummeting last season when Lana was the primary focus more often then not.

With that said, I didn't miss Lana in this episode, but I would have liked a mention of where she was. It wasn't necessary, but would have been nice.

Watching Smallville

11-19-2005, 10:53 AM

Originally posted by mkitty3
... the three stones of plot contrivance?!!!

:lol: :lol:

I have a feeling Lana will more than make up for her absence in these two episodes with a strong story line for the rest of the season.

umm

11-19-2005, 11:31 AM

supergurl88

11-19-2005, 12:01 PM

Originally posted by PETER WEST
Oh Happy Day, Their was no Lana at all in this SUPER episode. I love it. I hope we see less and less of her .

haha:rotfl:haha:rotfl:haha:rotfl:haha:rotfl: thats funny!

BeepBeep

11-19-2005, 12:06 PM

People are rarely, if ever, mentioned when they disappear for an episode or two. There have been episodes the last couple of years where Lois, Lana, Martha and Johnathan are absent without a reason or mention being given.

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 12:06 PM

Originally posted by mkitty3
Wow! This is coming after an entire season of having Lana shoved down our throats in a story arc that rarely had anything to do with Superman. Are you forgetting Lana the witch and the three stones of plot contrivance?!!!

Chloe is finally getting some much deserved screen time, probably because she is such a strong actress and a fan favorite. It may also have something to do with the ratings plummeting last season when Lana was the primary focus more often then not.

With that said, I didn't miss Lana in this episode, but I would have liked a mention of where she was. It wasn't necessary, but would have been nice.

There was not an entire season of Lana shoved down our throats. That witch stuff WAS stupid, but I think the fact that Lana and Clark had other relationships helped contribute to low ratings. Clark and Lana are now in a relationship...finally.

So some people didn't miss Lana, good for them. But others did. I just hope TPTB are setting Chloe up to go buh-bye. Everyone besides mom and pop who knows the secret has had to go away, and Chloe had better not be an exception. :rolleyes:

No-El

11-19-2005, 01:27 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
There was not an entire season of Lana shoved down our throats. That witch stuff WAS stupid, but I think the fact that Lana and Clark had other relationships helped contribute to low ratings. Clark and Lana are now in a relationship...finally.

So some people didn't miss Lana, good for them. But others did. I just hope TPTB are setting Chloe up to go buh-bye. Everyone besides mom and pop who knows the secret has had to go away, and Chloe had better not be an exception. :rolleyes:

Chloe?? Not a chance sweetheart!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

liana

11-19-2005, 01:42 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
Unless your name is supergirl Chloe. Then you can be in almost every scene (it seems anyway) and save Superman every chance you get.

I can understand you missing Lana, it's perfectly ok. But I must see I don't have a probably with Chloe saving Clark. I mean, in Arrival, we got Lana saving Clark, didn't we? She was the one that brought the aliens to the Luthor Mansion where the Kryptonite was and the only reason why that plan didn't work one hundred percent is because of inconsistent writing on the show. :mad: We all know that much of Kryptonite should have incapacitated them, but still... :rolleyes: Well, she gave Clark the stone last season, and I'm sure she will still save his life too. The problem with her saving him, is the fact that she doesn't know about the secret and Chloe does. That's all. We all knew when the season began that they were going to focus on Chloe's character this year: they even said that this was Chloe's year. I must say that, though I'm not a romantic chlarker, I love her character. I really didn't want anything bad happening to her, but I think she is appearing too much and there must be a reason for that. When I heard that she signed to appear on another series for three episodes, I panicked. I hope nothing bad happen to her, but after years of watching Joss Whedon, you start to be scared when a supporting character gets too much attention.

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 01:48 PM

Originally posted by No-El
Chloe?? Not a chance sweetheart!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Lose the "sweetheart" please, and give me an argument as to why Chloe should be any different. :)

Liana, yes Ms. Lang did help in Arrival, but we all know that Chloe is saving the day ad nauseum here. I think there's no comparison. :\

mkitty3

11-19-2005, 02:01 PM

I just hope TPTB are setting Chloe up to go buh-bye.

Why would you wish that on any character on the show? Do you find Chloe that threatening to the Clana relationship? She's done nothing but be there for Clark and Lana as a friend this season and she brings needed questions and answers to a show that relies on outside mysteries as their primary story arcs.

If your only reason for wanting to see Chloe die or go "buh bye" is because you think she hampers the Clana, then maybe you should start wanting Clark and Lana to go buh bye, they are the main ones screwing this relationship up, not Chloe.

Do I think requited Clana has improved ratings this season? Most definately. I think people were incredibly tired of this back and forth and were ready to see some resolution to this relationship. Adding unnecessary random boyfriends for Lana didn't help matters for sure. The Clana relationship in the first three episodes this season was pretty darn adorable and it was nice to see them happy for a change. That is the tragedy of Clana, of what could have been had Clark felt he could be honest with Lana . But he doesn't and now she's hiding things from him. It's certainly a much more interesting dynamic then them mooning and whining over each other in the past seasons.

liana

11-19-2005, 02:28 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
Lose the "sweetheart" please, and give me an argument as to why Chloe should be any different. :)

Liana, yes Ms. Lang did help in Arrival, but we all know that Chloe is saving the day ad nauseum here. I think there's no comparison. :\

But this doesn't mean that she won't be helpfull in the future. The reason why Chloe is helping Clark and Lana isn't, is because she knows the secret and Lana doesn't. Anyway, Chloe always helped Clark, the difference is that now she knows when she is doing it and why. Before, Clark used her expertise to find what he needed and she remained in the dark.

In the end of the day, Chloe is a tragic character: she is always supportive, always helps but she never gets the guy she is interested in. Clark always comes back to Lana. That's the way it is. Tempest was the great example of that and in a way, it is always like that. Remember that in Arrival he left Chloe in the Artic, saved the day and decided to not go back because he wanted to help Lana. It's questionable if he needed to help her: in my opinion she wasn't in a critical condition, but he stayed because he is love with her. My point is: he left Chloe alone there. He didn't even remember her and Lex was the one who brought her home. Lana got the better end of deal: she holds Clark's heart.

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 02:45 PM

Mkitty3, seeing that you're new in town, you haven't read the many "Lana must die now" threads, so I'm not alone in wishing a certain character will leave. However, I'm not wishing "death" on Chloe. I'm wishing she'll at least move away from Smallville.

You're putting an argument into my mouth. I didn't say she hampers Clana. Oh no...TPTB are doing that; they're so badly written. But Chloe seems to almost even have more importance than Clark. So it doesn't just have to do with Clark and Lana.

Liana, I know Chloe and Clark's dynamic is different now, but it seems so blatantly obvious that she's like the real hero of the show. Not even Pete got to be. I used to really like Chloe, but does Clark have to extol her in so many episodes? OK, she's great, we know.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 02:56 PM

She did better than ask how Martha was. She tried to help Clark stop what was happening to his mother. BTW Chloe saved Clark's ass again. Way better then participating in a Martha deathbed watch. Lois wasn't around because I don't think the Kents wanted her in on the Martha has a Kryptonian disease we are trying to find the cure for powwow. It's OK that Lana wasn't around. I don't think fans are hating on her for that

She was right there, she could have said something to ask about Martha. In it was Lana in that case, lana haters would be jumping out every where and saying that. As they felt the need to do regarding the episode "Fever".

In the end of the day, Chloe is a tragic character: she is always supportive, always helps but she never gets the guy she is interested in. Clark always comes back to Lana. That's the way it is. Tempest was the great example of that and in a way, it is always like that. Remember that in Arrival he left Chloe in the Artic, saved the day and decided to not go back because he wanted to help Lana. It's questionable if he needed to help her: in my opinion she wasn't in a critical condition, but he stayed because he is love with her. My point is: he left Chloe alone there. He didn't even remember her and Lex was the one who brought her home. Lana got the better end of deal: she holds Clark's heart.

To be fair liana, how was Clark suppose to get chloe? He had no powers by the time he got rid of the kryptonians. Remember, Clark lost his powers, almost right after he defeated them. He saw Lana was alright, then he cut himself. Doesn't seem like he had time to make a choice and EVEN if he did, how was he chloe suppose to get back? Clark would be powerless. I'm not sure about Lana getting the better end of the deal in the love triangle thing. I understand how bad it is for Chloe, but it's really bad for Lana as well.

umm

11-19-2005, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by liana
I can understand you missing Lana, it's perfectly ok. But I must see I don't have a probably with Chloe saving Clark. I mean, in Arrival, we got Lana saving Clark, didn't we? She was the one that brought the aliens to the Luthor Mansion where the Kryptonite was and the only reason why that plan didn't work one hundred percent is because of inconsistent writing on the show. :mad: We all know that much of Kryptonite should have incapacitated them, but still... :rolleyes: Well, she gave Clark the stone last season, and I'm sure she will still save his life too. The problem with her saving him, is the fact that she doesn't know about the secret and Chloe does. That's all. We all knew when the season began that they were going to focus on Chloe's character this year: they even said that this was Chloe's year. I must say that, though I'm not a romantic chlarker, I love her character. I really didn't want anything bad happening to her, but I think she is appearing too much and there must be a reason for that. When I heard that she signed to appear on another series for three episodes, I panicked. I hope nothing bad happen to her, but after years of watching Joss Whedon, you start to be scared when a supporting character gets too much attention.

I agree! Although I love the character of Chloe, it does seem that she is carrying the show now, and even I, a Chloe fan, know that that is not the way it should be on a show about Clark Kent/Superman!
And yes, the same thing did happen on Angel!
I am assuming you are talking about Angel, and I am not sure whether you are refering to Wes or Cordy, but to me it did seem that Cordy/Charisma C. more often than not stole the show, the limelight as they say! And we know how she ended up, and Wes for that matter!
So I just hope that won´t happen to Chloe! I don´t want her to be killed off!

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 04:25 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl

However, I'm not wishing "death" on Chloe.

I used to really like Chloe, but does Clark have to extol her in so many episodes? OK, she's great, we know.

Forgive me, but I hardly believe the sincerity of these two statements (or at least I'm having a hard time believing)....except for the extol portion of statement two. But then again.......Lana has been perpetually extoled by practically every male on the series (including the producers) from the very beginning of this series. And let's be honest, when it comes to the stories.....Chloe is in a character position (Daily Planet investigative reporter) to be a greater catalyst for Smallville/Metropolis' storylines......which is no different from her catalyst days at the torch. Unfortunately, Lana's character as the love interest does not have as many opportunities to advance these same storylines. Now, over the course of a "well written" arch....yes.....but from episode to constant episode?.....not as easily done for the writters as with a certain self proclaimed investigative reporter.

I'm not saying Lana isn't important to the Superman saga (Comic book Lana was always my favorite Supes girl until Smallville Chloe), but there really should be no doubt as to which one of these two (Chloe) can more quickly and easily move an episode's storyline along when needed. Getting rid of Chloe won't make Lana as good as Chloe in that department. The fact that the writters really tried to involve Lana in the Mythos during the fourth season tends to support this. However, I thought Lana worked well in "Splinter"......because she didn't feel forced into the storyline. And that's because she has her own issues now....such as her growing interest in the meteors (because of her family history) and the ship (but then again....Chloe's been interested in meteors from day one). The result for me was that for the most part, Lana didn't feel annoying (well, maybe a little when she was being all self righteous and yelling at Lex.....but it didn't bother me as much as usual). And she was a big part of moving the storyline along in this particular episode.

The only issue I have is that Clark can be so obtuse at times. I don't mind Chloe saving the day occasionally, or having a helping hand in it. In this episode, it was okay for me, because the villain's plan was so coldly calculated. That...coupled together with Clark's grief over his mother was enough to believeably push him into a situation where he had no time to think things through. And this is not just true for Clark with regards to Martha. In Clark's case, this would be true of his parents, Chloe, and Lana. My problem with him being obtuse came mostly from the second and third episodes of this season. And it was not just because of him turning his back on who he was, or even (Ugggg!) deflowering the pink one..........mistakes are okay......but he never even worried about consequences until the moment came when even a moron could tell that there would be. And during all that, Chloe kept trying to tell him, but he wouldn't listen. That's what bugs me.....it's the fact that he wouldn't even contemplate things. Chloe was also in there trying to get him to fess up to the pink one about the truth. And this is the girl you wish would just go away? So Like I said, I have a hard time believing the sincerity of you're remarks.......not that my opinion should mean anything to you.

No-El

11-19-2005, 04:31 PM

Originally posted by umm
I agree! Although I love the character of Chloe, it does seem that she is carrying the show now, and even I, a Chloe fan, know that that is not the way it should be on a show about Clark Kent/Superman!
And yes, the same thing did happen on Angel!
I am assuming you are talking about Angel, and I am not sure whether you are refering to Wes or Cordy, but to me it did seem that Cordy/Charisma C. more often than not stole the show, the limelight as they say! And we know how she ended up, and Wes for that matter!
So I just hope that won´t happen to Chloe! I don´t want her to be killed off!

Don't worry Chloe will not die (for the reason I posted before)----the producers said this will be "Chloecentric year"! Also, the main story arc for this Season 5 is not centered so much around Chloe but the "main 3 characters"---Clark, Lana and Lex.

Chloe's involvment with Clark and his secret as his best friend is "crucial/pivotal" to the main events/people in his life---namely Lana Lang, Lex Luthor and the Kent parents. That's why we happily see so much of her!:D

Chloe is, I venture to say the heaviest supporting character this season that not even Lois or Lionel Luthor have big supporting roles.

This comes back to the Clark/Chloe dynamic which Al Gough spoke of.

Incidently, I read in the November/December 2005 #11 issue of Smallville Magazine that Al/Miles "know already the last scene of the last episode of the Series". That there are signposts markers with the writers help that get to that point, which only Al/Miles know.:) :)

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 04:39 PM

The only issue I have is that Clark can be so obtuse at times. I don't mind Chloe saving the day occasionally, or having a helping hand in it. In this episode, it was okay for me, because the villain's plan was so coldly calculated. That...coupled together with Clark's grief over his mother was enough to believeably push him into a situation where he had no time to think things through. And this is not just true for Clark with regards to Martha. In Clark's case, this would be true of his parents, Chloe, and Lana. My problem with him being obtuse came mostly from the second and third episodes of this season. And it was not just because of him turning his back on who he was, or even (Ugggg!) deflowering the pink one..........mistakes are okay......but he never even worried about consequences until the moment came when even a moron could tell that there would be. And during all that, Chloe kept trying to tell him, but he wouldn't listen. That's what bugs me.....it's the fact that he wouldn't even contemplate things. Chloe was also in there trying to get him to fess up to the pink one about the truth. And this is the girl you wish would just go away? So Like I said, I have a hard time believing the sincerity of you're remarks.......not that my opinion should mean anything to you.

I can't blame Clark for being obtuse at during the second and third episode. That to Clark, was his perfect life, being normal and being with Lana. If someone thinks there life is perfect, obviously they're going to go with it and try to forget everything else. Off course there are other times Clark is obtuse, when it comes to Lex mostly.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I can't blame Clark for being obtuse at during the second and third episode. That to Clark, was his perfect life, being normal and being with Lana. If someone thinks there life is perfect, obviously they're going to go with it and try to forget everything else. Off course there are other times Clark is obtuse, when it comes to Lex mostly.

Yes and No.....but at least he contemplates things with Lex. There is no excuse with regards to episodes 2 & 3 ......other than the following:

1. He's Obtuse.

2. He's Stupid.

3. The writters just want to forget what a great young man he was in seasons 1,2, and 3........and they need to get their story moving along.

Come on.......the old Clark probably still would have made the same mistakes.....but at least he would have wrestled with it......doesn't matter whether it's about his perfect life, or even the pink one.

LaineSV11

11-19-2005, 04:51 PM

Lana is boring.. im glad she hasn't seen any time in the few episode... it doesn't seem like clark even likes her anymore

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 04:56 PM

Come on.......the old Clark probably still would have made the same mistakes.....but at least he would have wrestled with it......doesn't matter whether it's about his perfect life, or even the pink one.

What was Clark suppose to do? Run to the FOS and beg for his powers back? Stay in his loft all day, instead of spending time with the girl he loves? Please, Clark got what he FINALLY wanted. You're going to tell me that if someone gets what they've always wanted, they're going to spend time thinking about why this happened? No, they're just going to go with it, like Clark did. A mistake that anyone and everyone would make.

Deana

11-19-2005, 05:07 PM

I can't defend Clark's actions in the 2nd and 3rd episodes. Epescially when this guy is supposed to be Superman. I can understand a lapse of judgement like this when he was a younger teen but at this point in his life; bull. It's like he went backwards instead of forwards in his maturity.
I'm so disappointed in him, I can scream. That's why I can relish Lois verbally making him feel like the idiot he's become.

I didn't miss Lana. She's been crammed down our throat since season 1, but it would also be nice to see an episode without Chloe. Clark can't wipe his rear without her. It would be nice to see him actually do something on his own. Not that I don't like Chloe...

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 05:12 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
What was Clark suppose to do? Run to the FOS and beg for his powers back? Stay in his loft all day, instead of spending time with the girl he loves? Please, Clark got what he FINALLY wanted. You're going to tell me that if someone gets what they've always wanted, they're going to spend time thinking about why this happened? No, they're just going to go with it, like Clark did. A mistake that anyone and everyone would make.

Doing something and not even caring about consequences......or worse....even trying to forget that the possibility of consequences even exists?

Me.....probably

You........if Lana's the prize?.......we all know the answer to that.

But a young Clark Kent?........We should all expect a little bit more.

****************************

Clark to Fine: "I thought I was the last Son of Krypton....but you people just keep popping up"

Fine to Clark: "That's because you're stupid Clark.......or at the very least.....obtuse".

* And all those Meteor freaks are just going to go away like they never existed? Yes, "Stupid" is starting to look like a more accurate description for our little Clarkie..........at least during these two episodes in question.

liana

11-19-2005, 05:35 PM

I think stupid is a very strong word to define Clark's actions: selfish or inconsequent might be better ones. He assumes a lot of things because they made his life easier. One example is in Arrival: I know people said he didn't have time to go to the fortress, but in fact Clark can go to the caves in seconds and the sun hasn't set yet, he could have gone, but he preffered to assume he took care of the danger Jor-el warned him about. He didn't even try to go to the caves later, and ask Jor-el if indeed there was no danger any more.

For that alone, I blame him. Even if he didn't want his powers back, he knew for a fact that every little thing Jor-el warned him about comes to pass, and he didn't do anything.

Inconsequent. He was so happy at being normal, that he wanted to believe Jor-el released him. That's what he told his parents at the end of the episode. Jonathan, who always tried to stop him from doing whatever Jor-el asked of him, is the one who protests and asks if he is absolutely sure. He is the one who says he can't believe this is true. Clark is the one who is so happy about his new life that he doesn't care about the consequences. Remember, he didn't know about what would happen, but Jor-el said the consequences would be dire. And what Clark does? Nothing. He doesn't even come back for answers.

I still think that, if Clark had made the right choice: maintain his words or come back at least to know what would happen, things would been different. But that's Smallville Clark: he is not stupid, he chooses not to see. That's why I say he is selfish. He knew there would be consequences and he didn't warn his family about these consequences. He prefered to ignore them, just wishing they would not happen. This is what he always do. That's why he didn't tell Lana the truth: he doesn't want to have to face the consequences of her knowing the truth. In fact, I think it doesn't have to do with trust, it has to do with what is easy for him. And for Clark is always pretend problems don't exist. The boy really needs to grow up.

umm

11-19-2005, 05:37 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
What was Clark suppose to do? Run to the FOS and beg for his powers back? Stay in his loft all day, instead of spending time with the girl he loves? Please, Clark got what he FINALLY wanted. You're going to tell me that if someone gets what they've always wanted, they're going to spend time thinking about why this happened? No, they're just going to go with it, like Clark did. A mistake that anyone and everyone would make.

Yes, people make mistakes, but there is a difference between ordinary people and the future Superman, who doesn´t, and shouldn´t allow, himself the luxury to make the same mistakes ordinary people do! And when Lana is concerened Clark, if I may say, always thinks with his, let´s call it, ´little brains´, instead of the big brains in the head, where common reason resides! And love has nothing to do with it, or wants or wishes or long time desires, sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture and put your own nees aside in order to do what´s right! Frankly it´s shameful, that Clark still isn´t capable to realise that Lana or any woman for that matter shouldn´t be his first priority! It´s been five years already, accept your destiny and grow up already´!

shy175223

11-19-2005, 05:45 PM

I think that's the point of this whole arc. For Clark to finaly accepts his destiny. one ce he does the show is over. And you are forgeting something. He isn't SUperman yet. i'm not saying his mistakes should excuse him but his mistakes are going to help from what ever he deals with in life as Superman. he is still a teenage kid with powers trying deal with life here. He still willand does make mistakes because he WAS raised as a human.

smallville_fetish

11-19-2005, 05:50 PM

The boy is still growing up. For someone of his age and responsibility he's not as jaded as a normal boy should be considering what he's going through. He'll soon see the consequences of his errors and omission which is pretty sad to me. He would've done whatever a normal guy who wants to be normal would do and now he has to sacrifice something as big as someone's life; someone close to him. A little too harsh? I mean yeah he should'n't have done what he did cuz that was arrogant but it doesn't bug me because it's realistic and I don't have expectations of him being perfect. I find it interesting what route they're taking when trying to make our future Superman. As if they make his life a tragedy as well as his relationship in able for him to learn a lesson and suddenly expect him not to turn against the world but instead, save it? It sort of does and doesn't make sense but oh well you really can't blame him for everything.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 05:51 PM

Doing something and not even caring about consequences......or worse....even trying to forget that the possibility of consequences even exists?

So is he suppose to dull on the consequences? Clark made a choice and he went with it, simple as that. If the prize was Lana, off course i'd do it and if the prize was chloe, so would you. Clark will just have to accept the consequences and take responsibility for his actions, he always does.

But a young Clark Kent?........We should all expect a little bit more.

Why? Because he's made of steel and he has the kents as parents? Clark has lived his life as a human, with the emtions and stuff that comes with it. He's 18 years old and when you're 18, you make a lot of stupid mistakes. Doesn't matter if you're an alien from krypton or an 18 year old from New York.

I still think that, if Clark had made the right choice: maintain his words or come back at least to know what would happen, things would been different. But that's Smallville Clark: he is not stupid, he chooses not to see. That's why I say he is selfish. He knew there would be consequences and he didn't warn his family about these consequences. He prefered to ignore them, just wishing they would not happen. This is what he always do. That's why he didn't tell Lana the truth: he doesn't want to have to face the consequences of her knowing the truth. In fact, I think it doesn't have to do with trust, it has to do with what is easy for him. And for Clark is always pretend problems don't exist. The boy really needs to grow up.

You just described most, if not all 18 year old boys.

Yes, people make mistakes, but there is a difference between ordinary people and the future Superman, who doesn´t, and shouldn´t allow, himself the luxury to make the same mistakes ordinary people do! And when Lana is concerened Clark, if I may say, always thinks with his, let´s call it, ´little brains´, instead of the big brains in the head, where common reason resides! And love has nothing to do with it, or wants or wishes or long time desires, sometimes you have to look at the bigger picture and put your own nees aside in order to do what´s right! Frankly it´s shameful, that Clark still isn´t capable to realise that Lana or any woman for that matter shouldn´t be his first priority! It´s been five years already, accept your destiny and grow up already´!

Like I said the future superman has lived the life of a human, has the emtions and everything else that goes with it. When you love someone as much as Clark loves Lana, she becomes first priority. Which in some cases should happen, not when dealing with the lives of others though. It's also a lot to ask of someone to accept their destiny and grow up. Especially when Clark doesn't truly know his real destiny. A lot to ask of someone, even if they are clark, to tell them to go out and save the world. While at the same time, sacrificing everything you've ever wanted

umm

11-19-2005, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by shy175223
I think that's the point of this whole arc. For Clark to finaly accepts his destiny. one ce he does the show is over. And you are forgeting something. He isn't SUperman yet. i'm not saying his mistakes should excuse him but his mistakes are going to help from what ever he deals with in life as Superman. he is still a teenage kid with powers trying deal with life here. He still willand does make mistakes because he WAS raised as a human.

I am not aginst mistakes, we all make them! Clark has a right to make mistakes once in a while, but if we are completly honest, we are talking about one particular mistake, that´s being repeted time and time again!
Placing Lana ahead of his destiny, and not be willing to accept it, has been Clark´s credo from day 1. and it´s getting to be a tad old!
And if you take a closer look, Lana is the only girl who makes him act that way! He was more at ease with his destiny when Kyla, Alicia were around, he is more at ease with it with Chloe around! I simply cannot understand how he can be soo blind! Lana is an distraction he doesn´t need! So many girls in the world, and he goes for the one, which makes it the hardest for him to accept his destiny! Something he will have to do sooner or later, and the more he fights it, the more trouble it will cause him!

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 05:57 PM

It's not Lana that's the distraction, it's his secret. All the girls you mentioned below knew his secret.

shy175223

11-19-2005, 06:00 PM

which he will pay with dire consequences in the end with his relationship with Lana.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 06:03 PM

More than likely, but i don't think that's why they break up or don't end up together.

umm

11-19-2005, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
More than likely, but i don't think that's why they break up or don't end up together.

His secret will play only a part in their break up! The true reason for the break up, is simply cos they are badly matched! A classical ´miss match´ if you will!

liana

11-19-2005, 06:09 PM

You just described most, if not all 18 year old boys.

I agree, SmallvilleMan. That's why I said he isn't stupid. He is a teenager still, but he has to grow up. Considering everything that he has already faced in his life, it still surprise me to see him so imature still. I'm not expecting him to be mature because he will be superman one day. He is not him yet, and I get that. But he should know that actions have consequences. It's the whole ship/red-k arch of the end of second season all over again. I thought the purpose of that arch, was exactly to show him that actions have consequences and that these consequences must be faced. But it looks like he has to learn it all over again. I don't expect him to be perfect, because he is not. But I should expect him to be a little less inconsequent by now.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 06:14 PM

His secret will play only a part in their break up! The true reason for the break up, is simply cos they are badly matched! A classical ´miss match´ if you will!

I don't agree with 'miss match' thing.

I agree, SmallvilleMan. That's why I said he isn't stupid. He is a teenager still, but he has to grow up. Considering everything that he has already faced in his life, it still surprise me to see him so imature still. I'm not expecting him to be mature because he will be superman one day. He is not him yet, and I get that. But he should know that actions have consequences. It's the whole ship/red-k arch of the end of second season all over again. I thought the purpose of that arch, was exactly to show him that actions have consequences and that these consequences must be faced. But it looks like he has to learn it all over again. I don't expect him to be perfect, because he is not. But I should expect him to be a little less inconsequent by now.

Sometimes you can only learn things the hard way and Clark will learn the very hard way. When he loses JK, who i'm almost 100% certain is the one who dies.

umm

11-19-2005, 06:17 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I don't agree with 'miss match' thing.

Sometimes you can only learn things the hard way and Clark will learn the very hard way. When he loses JK, who i'm almost 100% certain is the one who dies.

Why are you so certain that Pa kent will be the one to go! It could be Martha as well, or any other character other than the big three!

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 06:25 PM

I am certain it's JK, because I don't think Jor-el puts Chloe in the loved catergory. I think he thinks of The kents and Lana, when he talks about the people clark loves. Lana isn't dying and if Martha were to die, it would have been last week. It also opens up the door for Jor-el to become Clark's father figures and so on.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 06:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
If the prize was Lana, off course i'd do it and if the prize was chloe, so would you. Clark will just have to accept the consequences and take responsibility for his actions, he always does.[QUOTE]

That's why I said probably.....I knew you would say that.....as sure as the Sun will rise in the morning.

Making the mistake is not the issue.......it's his thought process and regression from seasons 1 thru 3. His personality during those seasons.....especially episodes 3 thru 9 of Season 1 (I think those were the first episodes that I saw) are what sold me on the show..........(although honestly, Chloe's the one who truly sealed my deep appreciation and enjoyment of Smallville). And you know what....Just like said with my very own words...not yours....I probably would make that same mistake (especially if as you say....it's Chloe), but I know damn well that those possible consequences would be looming in the back of my mind.......like a black rain cloud following me everywhere I went. That's what seperates me from Smallville Clark in those episodes. Does it seperate me from someone like yourself? Seems like your response should have answered that for me.....but (and I can't believe I'm giving you the benifit of the doubt)......I still wonder.

umm

11-19-2005, 06:30 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I am certain it's JK, because I don't think Jor-el puts Chloe in the loved catergory. I think he thinks of The kents and Lana, when he talks about the people clark loves. Lana isn't dying and if Martha were to die, it would have been last week. It also opens up the door for Jor-el to become Clark's father figures and so on.

Well, Dr. Phil would certainly be of another opinion! So am I, by the way!

If we go by that argument, the loved one category, well there are four kinds, the love a child feels for his parents, the love a friend feels towards another friend, and the love a guy feels for a girl! If we go by that category,...Lana, Martha, Jonathan and Chloe are possible options! Lana, the girlfriend, Chloe, the best friend, and Clark´s parents! There are all loved ones! So excluding Chloe from the group, doesn´t hold up! If any one of these people died, Clatk would be stricken with grief!

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 06:34 PM

That's why I said probably.....I knew you would say that.....as sure as the Sun will rise in the morning.

So, do you know what i'm going to say next? :D Off course you did.:\

Making the mistake is not the issue.......it's his thought process and regression from seasons 1 thru 3. His personality during those seasons.....especially episodes 3 thru 9 of Season 1 (I think those were the first episodes that I saw) are what sold me on the show..........(although honestly, Chloe's the one who truly sealed my deep appreciation and enjoyment of Smallville). And you know what....Just like said with my very own words...not yours....I probably would make that same mistake (especially if as you say....it's Chloe), but I know damn well that those possible consequences would be looming in the back of my mind.......like a black rain cloud following me everywhere I went. That's what seperates me from Smallville Clark in those episodes. Does it seperate me from someone like yourself? Seems like your response should have answered that for me.....but (and I can't believe I'm giving you the benifit of the doubt)......I still wonder.

I like how you say probably, thus leaving yourself an out. Also, I really don't you your benefit of the doubt nor do I need you to tell me what separates you from me. Seeing as how you know nothing about me and I know nothing about you. Anyways, you can know about the possible consequences all you want, it's how you deal with them is what really matters. Maybe that's what separates you from me, but I wouldn't make that assumption.:)

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by liana
I think stupid is a very strong word to define Clark's actions: selfish or inconsequent might be better ones. He assumes a lot of things because they made his life easier. One example is in Arrival: I know people said he didn't have time to go to the fortress, but in fact Clark can go to the caves in seconds and the sun hasn't set yet, he could have gone, but he preffered to assume he took care of the danger Jor-el warned him about. He didn't even try to go to the caves later, and ask Jor-el if indeed there was no danger any more.

For that alone, I blame him. Even if he didn't want his powers back, he knew for a fact that every little thing Jor-el warned him about comes to pass, and he didn't do anything.

Inconsequent. He was so happy at being normal, that he wanted to believe Jor-el released him. That's what he told his parents at the end of the episode. Jonathan, who always tried to stop him from doing whatever Jor-el asked of him, is the one who protests and asks if he is absolutely sure. He is the one who says he can't believe this is true. Clark is the one who is so happy about his new life that he doesn't care about the consequences. Remember, he didn't know about what would happen, but Jor-el said the consequences would be dire. And what Clark does? Nothing. He doesn't even come back for answers.

I still think that, if Clark had made the right choice: maintain his words or come back at least to know what would happen, things would been different. But that's Smallville Clark: he is not stupid, he chooses not to see. That's why I say he is selfish. He knew there would be consequences and he didn't warn his family about these consequences. He prefered to ignore them, just wishing they would not happen. This is what he always do. That's why he didn't tell Lana the truth: he doesn't want to have to face the consequences of her knowing the truth. In fact, I think it doesn't have to do with trust, it has to do with what is easy for him. And for Clark is always pretend problems don't exist. The boy really needs to grow up.

You make a good argument.....perhaps Stupid is kind of harsh.....but it does capture the flavor of my dissappointment in the young Man of Steel. Unlike "Smallville Clark Kent"......I like your thought process.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
So, do you know what i'm going to say next? :D Off course you did.:

No, only that one statement. That's the God Honest Truth. But believe what you will.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan

Also, I really don't you your benefit of the doubt nor do I need you to tell me what separates you from me. Seeing as how you know nothing about me and I know nothing about you.

I didn't say it seperated you from me.......that's why I said that I wonder....though I'm beginning to wonder a little less now.....thank you. What I said is that it seperated me from "Smallville Clark" in those episodes.

Watching Smallville

11-19-2005, 06:58 PM

Originally posted by liana
[B]He was so happy at being normal, that he wanted to believe Jor-el released him. That's what he told his parents at the end of the episode. Jonathan, who always tried to stop him from doing whatever Jor-el asked of him, is the one who protests and asks if he is absolutely sure. He is the one who says he can't believe this is true. Clark is the one who is so happy about his new life that he doesn't care about the consequences. Remember, he didn't know about what would happen, but Jor-el said the consequences would be dire. And what Clark does? Nothing. He doesn't even come back for answers. /B]
I assumed that Clark thought losing his powers was the consequence, and so he assumed he had paid the price for not returning to the FOS.

I understand why Clark makes decisions based on his feelings for Lana and doesn't change this pattern. His feelings haven't changed, so the pattern isn't going to change. We have to wait for him to develop a different feeling toward her -- either not to be in love with her, or not to think she's worth every sacrifice. Until then, he's going to keep making the same choice.

I don't think he's stupid, but he's soooooo gullible. And he's so eager to accept evidence that backs up what he wants to believe while ignoring evidence that contradicts what he wants to believe. I take this as a part immaturity and part identity confusion. I'm hoping Season 5 begins to help him resolve some of these issues so we begin to see a little less of a BDA -- whoops, I mean gullible Clark :rolleyes: -- and a little more of a Superman.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 07:34 PM

I didn't say it seperated you from me.......that's why I said that I wonder....though I'm beginning to wonder a little less now.....thank you. What I said is that it seperated me from "Smallville Clark" in those episodes.

Think what you want. It really doesn't matter, because you don't know. See, unlike you, I just don't know about the consequences of my actions, i deal with them, as Clark will. I guess that does separate me from you.....thank you.

mkitty3

11-19-2005, 07:45 PM

You're putting an argument into my mouth. I didn't say she hampers Clana. Oh no...TPTB are doing that; they're so badly written. But Chloe seems to almost even have more importance than Clark. So it doesn't just have to do with Clark and Lana.

My assumption was based on the fact that you said something similar to this in a Chlark fireside thread, so my apologies if I made a mistake. I thought I remembered you wishing death in that thread, but I might be wrong:) It wouldn't be the first time! LOL

I have been in the SV fandom for almost three years now(only started posting my vids here recently) so not a newbie, just never felt much like posting on forums and stuck primarily to LiveJournal. I know all too well the harsh dislike of Lana's character. I do not dislike Lana myself, but I believe in previous seasons there has been far too much emphasis on this character, like perhaps you believe is now being placed on Chloe. I don't see it. Chloe's purpose has been to only support and be there for Clark and even Lana this season and to help with the FoTW/mystery aspect of the show.

Chloe definately serves a greater purpose then in previous seasons and has done a great deal to help Clark grow as a person by accepting him unconditionally and fully accepting that he loves another. Her focus is no longer on getting Clark to date her and is now focused on getting Clark to accept his destiny and to be the hero she believes he can and will be. That is some pretty significant character growth for her and deserves further exploration IMO.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 08:14 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Think what you want. It really doesn't matter, because you don't know. See, unlike you, I just don't know about the consequences of my actions, i deal with them, as Clark will. I guess that does separate me from you.....thank you.

You misunderstand me. Obviously, no one can always know the consequences of their actions. Sometimes you have no idea, and other times their clarity is crystal clear. I was obviously referring to being in Clark's situation during those two Season 4 episodes.....and also knowing everything that has happened in the course of his life. You don't have to know the exact outcome of consequences to seriously realize that they potentialy exsit. Like Lex said in a past episode....."the past is always affecting the future". Now, what was that you said about assuming?

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 08:35 PM

You misunderstand me. Obviously, no one can always know the consequences of their actions. Sometimes you have no idea, and other times their clarity is crystal clear. I was obviously referring to being in Clark's situation during those two Season 4 episodes.....and also knowing everything that has happened in the course of his life. You don't have to know the exact outcome of consequences to seriously realize that they potentialy exsit. Like Lex said....."the past is always affecting the future". Now, what was that you said about assuming?

The past only affects the future if you let it. Which is how you deal with them, that plays into whether it affects your future or not. That's what I said about assuming:) .

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
The past only affects the future if you let it. Which is how you deal with them, that plays into whether it affects your future or not. That's what I said about assuming:) .

Sometimes it's within you're control, and sometimes it's as unavoidable as meteors (*from a past catastrophic event I might add) demolishing the Smallville country side and producing a wealth of mutants.........you'd think Clark (sigh) would have learned this by now.......so again.....we're back to Obtuse.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 08:50 PM

Except each situation is different. You're going to have specify this particular situation a little more.

cotton candy girl

11-19-2005, 08:57 PM

Originally posted by umm
His secret will play only a part in their break up! The true reason for the break up, is simply cos they are badly matched! A classical ´miss match´ if you will!

He and Chloe wouldn't last either. I don't care about her knowing his secret; they wouldn't last. If TPTB put them in a relationship, how would they break them up?

BTW Clark and Lana aren't mismatched. It's just that Siegel and Schuster made her his girlfriend in the years before Superman.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 09:09 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Except each situation is different. You're going to have specify this particular situation a little more. [/QUOTE

Well, Season Five episodes 2 & 3 were pretty specific......as is all of Clark's exeriences from Season 1, 2, 3, and 4. Not sure what you're trying to ascertain at this point. With all of Clark's previous experiences and taking into account the Clark Kent personality of Seasons 1,2, & 3, his obliviousness to possible consequences should not hold any validity.......that is.......unless he's extremely Obtuse.........or....what was that other word that Liana talked me out of using?

Actually, Liana makes a pretty good argument for why Clark shouldn't have been oblivious or ignorant of possible consequences.

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 09:21 PM

Season 4 episodes? You mean season 5 episodes 2 and 3? Liana said Clark chooses not to see his consequences, which is true, because he wants his perfect life.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 09:27 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Season 4 episodes? You mean season 5 episodes 2 and 3? Liana said Clark chooses not to see his consequences, which is true, because he wants his perfect life.

Sorry, thanks.....I meant Season Five episodes.

Her post makes a good argument for why Clark made the mistake.
But it still doesn't disprove that he's being Obtuse...not with all his experience........so again...not sure what you're talking about in your previous post.

I'd like to add, that I would have preferred if Clark had made the mistake, but have the decision constantly worry him. Is that too much to ask for?

SmallvilleMan

11-19-2005, 09:33 PM

I never said he wasn't obtuse, I said Clark shouldn't be blame for being obtuse. That was my original point, which you debated.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I never said he wasn't obtuse, I said Clark shouldn't be blame for being obtuse. That was my original point, which you debated.

Clark is Obtuse......but he shouldn't be blamed for it? That doesn't make sense. Not for a young man of his exprience. And that was my original reason for responding to what you said.

Dannyblue1

11-19-2005, 09:57 PM

Buffy was young and immature, and she made mistakes. Then, she learned from those mistakes and moved on. And she made new mistakes. And she learned from those mistakes and moved on. And made new mistakes...That's realistic and understandable.

Clark makes mistakes, and appears to learn jack from them. Then, he makes the exact same mistakes again, and learns jack from them. And he makes the exact same mistakes...

So, it's not that Clark makes mistakes. It's that he never seems to learn anything from them. Oh, he pays lips service to the big "lesson" at the end of an episode. Then, he's back to doing the same thing all over again. It's been a cycle of "lather, rinse, repeat." And, if it takes this long for him to learn from making the same mistakes over and over again, you gotta wonder about the boy.

CK&CK

11-19-2005, 10:08 PM

Originally posted by AnimeJoe
And as huge of a CLANA fan that I am, Lana really wasn't needed in this episode. Heck, Lex didn't get THAT much important screen time neither. This episode was about Clark vs. Brainiac...

Or as I like to call them now, THE WONDER TWINS (Clark and Chloe) vs. Brainiac!

I agree. Lana really wasn't needed, but I wouldn't have minded if she at least phoned Clark to ask about Martha....but no big deal. The time line involved a day and half......so she didn't really have to be there. And although Lex didn't get much time either......HE WAS AWESOME!........Somebody get me some Bananna Blueberry Muffins! Lois!......where are my Muffins!

And I love your line about the Wonder Twins.......but to me....they will always be DC's Superman version of Batman & Robin! Without the masks or accouterments of course. Hummmmm. Chloe wearing a utility belt.......me like.

Originally posted by Dannyblue1

Clark makes mistakes, and appears to learn jack from them. Then, he makes the exact same mistakes again, and learns jack from them. And he makes the exact same mistakes...

So, it's not that Clark makes mistakes. It's that he never seems to learn anything from them. Oh, he pays lips service to the big "lesson" at the end of an episode. Then, he's back to doing the same thing all over again. It's been a cycle of "lather, rinse, repeat." And, if it takes this long for him to learn from making the same mistakes over and over again, you gotta wonder about the boy.

Bingo! If Clarks parents, Lana, or Chloe were in danger within the time constraits of what was happening to Martha in "Solitude" I could accept not taking certain consequences into consideration.....even with past lessons learned. But his "Jack" ass attitude at not learning anything just means that he was more remarkable as a boy than as a man. The "S" in Superman seems to stand for something else every now and then, but maybe "J" would be more appropriate.

Sk8erGur1

11-19-2005, 11:15 PM

How would Lana even have fit in this ep? With her not knowing Clark's secret and being completely clueless regarding everything, I don't see what purpose she would have had.

Ultron

11-20-2005, 06:24 AM

While I think Lana is a great character and KK a very good actress, I honestly don't know where they'd be able to give her much lines here. So much happened in this movie. I don't think every character has to be in every episode, outside of Clark really. :)

LanaandPete

11-20-2005, 12:30 PM

Best Lana episode ever

Yes, Lana is getting the Pete treatment, 2 seasons too late though.

Ah come on now, its season 5, and you are just now surprised that Clark didnt mention somebody he loves

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 01:10 PM

Clark is Obtuse......but he shouldn't be blamed for it? That doesn't make sense. Not for a young man of his exprience. And that was my original reason for responding to what you said.

Yes, it does make sense. Like original point said, I can't blame someone for being obtuse when they get their perfect life that they've always wanted.

Buffy was young and immature, and she made mistakes. Then, she learned from those mistakes and moved on. And she made new mistakes. And she learned from those mistakes and moved on. And made new mistakes...That's realistic and understandable.

Don't compare buffy to Clark, that's not a realistic comparsion. One of them is human and the other is from a different planet. Buffy couldn't even begin to comprehend what Clark goes through, not even close. She also had to learn from her mistakes, she was forced into a position, where basically the world was on the line. Not to mention she had a little sister to look after. That is totally different from Clark's position.

ma200

11-20-2005, 01:21 PM

Smallvilleman, a lot of people died all because of Clark's selfish desire to be completely ordinary so when other posters keep on saying that he kept making the same mistake over and over again, I think that's what they're talking about.

Drew

11-20-2005, 01:22 PM

I didnt miss lana in this episode.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 01:29 PM

Then you'd be talking about the second meteor shower? Clark AND his parents were the ones who decided he shouldn't go after the stones. In fact, his parents didn't even want him to go after them when the meteor shower was about to hit. Plus, I don't think Clark should be too confident that Jor-el wasn't doing this for Jor-el's own selfish reasons.

LanaandPete

11-20-2005, 01:31 PM

Also Buffy had a little sister in seasons 5, 6, and 7

Best Lana episode ever!!

ma200

11-20-2005, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Then you'd be talking about the second meteor shower? Clark AND his parents were the ones who decided he shouldn't go after the stones. In fact, his parents didn't even want him to go after them when the meteor shower was about to hit. Plus, I don't think Clark should be too confident that Jor-el wasn't doing this for Jor-el's own selfish reasons.

Actually my point is a lot broader than that. Clark's first mistake is that he didn't do what Jor-el told him to do in Season 2 when he obliterated the ship which indirectly caused the death of his baby brother/sister. Okay, that's was when I gave him a benefit of the doubt and believed that he would learn from his mistake.

But then the second time he still disobeyed Jor-el which caused the 2nd meteor shower, which killed a lot of people I'm betting, which also brought along a couple of aliens that killed quite a few people. And I think the worst part of Clark's decision to not do what Jor-el tells him to do is that...before chaos occurred, he knew deep down that something bad was going to happen if he disobeyed Jor-el again, and guess what, something bad happens once again.

And again near the end of Arrival, after everything that happened, he still thinks he can be ordinary and that Jor-el would get off his back. How many times does it take for him to realize that everytime he doesn't do what Jor-el tells him to do; that every time he keeps on running away from his destiny; something bad happens?

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 01:49 PM

Actually my point is a lot broader than that. Clark's first mistake is that he didn't do what Jor-el told him to do in Season 2 when he obliterated the ship which indirectly caused the death of his baby brother/sister. Okay, that's was when I gave him a benefit of the doubt and believed that he would learn from his mistake.

He just met Jor-el and already he's suppose to do what he says? That one, there's no way you can blame Clark, imo. He thought Jor-el would do something to him and he was trying to protect the people he loved. He also had no idea his parents would be any where near the farm during that time, which is why he did it then.

But then the second time he still disobeyed Jor-el which caused the 2nd meteor shower, which killed a lot of people I'm betting, which also brought along a couple of aliens that killed quite a few people. And I think the worst part of Clark's decision to not do what Jor-el tells him to do is that...before chaos occurred, he knew deep down that something bad was going to happen if he disobeyed Jor-el again, and guess what, something bad happens once again.

Clark did what he AND his parents thought was best. I mean how is Clark or his parents suppose to believe Jor-el's intentions are that of noble ones? This is the guy who sacrificed an innocent girl's life and almost killed JK just to get Clark. I wouldn't trust hm either.

And again near the end of Arrival, after everything that happened, he still thinks he can be ordinary and that Jor-el would get off his back. How many times does it take for him to realize that everytime he doesn't do what Jor-el tells him to do; that every time he keeps on running away from his destiny; something bad happens?

He was ignorant to believe Jor-el would just go away, but i don't like this running away from his destiny thing you're talking about. He doesn't know his destiny.

ma200

11-20-2005, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
He just met Jor-el and already he's suppose to do what he says? That one, there's no way you can blame Clark, imo. He thought Jor-el would do something to him and he was trying to protect the people he loved. He also had no idea his parents would be any where near the farm during that time, which is why he did it then.

That's why I said before that I thought he would learn from that mistake.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan Clark did what he AND his parents thought was best. I mean how is Clark or his parents suppose to believe Jor-el's intentions are that of noble ones? This is the guy who sacrificed an innocent girl's life and almost killed JK just to get Clark. I wouldn't trust hm either.

This isn't about whether or not Jor-el is a hard@#$, which he is, but that's not the point. The point I'm making is that serious sh#$ happens every time he doesn't do what Jor-el tells to do, and Clark should know that by now.

Sometimes Clark's parents are right and sometimes they're wrong, Clark should really learn to use his intuition and be more proactive rather than reactive.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
He was ignorant to believe Jor-el would just go away, but i don't like this running away from his destiny thing you're talking about. He doesn't know his destiny.

I think what I meant by destiny is that Clark should learn by now that he will never be just ordinary. Key word here is 'just.' By now, he should learn to see his abilities as a gift rather than a burden, and that perhaps he can live an ordinary and extroadinary life.

It's kinda like what he said about Alicia about her making him feel ordinary and special at the same time; more like himself.

Or when his Dad told him that he could either live as a mild-mannered citizen or be the world's greatest hero...the decision is up to him.

And after 4 years, he still wants to be just ordinary?

Timester

11-20-2005, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Clark did what he AND his parents thought was best. I mean how is Clark or his parents suppose to believe Jor-el's intentions are that of noble ones? This is the guy who sacrificed an innocent girl's life and almost killed JK just to get Clark. I wouldn't trust hm either.

Clark knew about the crystals and knew that they were dangerous/important (or else Jor-El wouldn't sent him?), but what Clark did? He sit down and decided to play football. Smart Clark, let dangerous stones on the hand of not-so-good humans. :rolleyes:

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
He was ignorant to believe Jor-el would just go away, but i don't like this running away from his destiny thing you're talking about. He doesn't know his destiny.

Uh? You aren't talking about Smallville, right? Destiny it's one of the most used words on Smallville. Clark does know his future (even his parents and Chloe knows), and instead he whines about it.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 02:18 PM

Uh? You aren't talking about Smallville, right? Destiny it's one of the most used words on Smallville. Clark does know his future (even his parents and Chloe knows), and instead he whines about it.

Oh, he knows? So he knows he's going to be flying around wearing a cape? Really? Please.....

Clark knew about the crystals and knew that they were dangerous/important (or else Jor-El wouldn't sent him?), but what Clark did? He sit down and decided to play football. Smart Clark, let dangerous stones on the hand of not-so-good humans

Except he doesn't know Jor-el's intentions, does he? Which is why he chooses not to listen to him.

This isn't about whether or not Jor-el is a hard@#$, which he is, but that's not the point. The point I'm making is that serious sh#$ happens every time he doesn't do what Jor-el tells to do, and Clark should know that by now.

Actually is about that, because Clark doens't or didn't trust him.

Sometimes Clark's parents are right and sometimes they're wrong, Clark should really learn to use his intuition and be more proactive rather than reactive.

They're still Clark's most influential forces and obviously he's going to listen to them.

And after 4 years, he still wants to be just ordinary?

Well, to him, just ordinary could be a life with the girl he loves. Possibly playing football and not worrying about risking his life or the lives of the people he cares about. Being Clark and his secret, brings pain, although unintentionally to his family, friends and Lana. That's what Clark sees comes with his secret.

ma200

11-20-2005, 02:33 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Oh, he knows? So he knows he's going to be flying around wearing a cape? Really? Please.....

Forget for a sec. about the suit and think about what Superman really stands for. He should learn by now that his powers are a gift not a burden. He should learn by now that he could do extroadinary things with what he's given. That's what Chloe sees in him.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Except he doesn't know Jor-el's intentions, does he? Which is why he chooses not to listen to him.

Once again, he should learn by now that every time he disobeys him, bad stuff happens. That is one thing he should learn about Jor-el no matter what his intentions are.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan

They're still Clark's most influential forces and obviously he's going to listen to them.
And there are times when Clark doesn't listen to them and actually manages to do the right thing according to his intuiton right?

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Well, to him, just ordinary could be a life with the girl he loves. Possibly playing football and not worrying about risking his life or the lives of the people he cares about. Being Clark and his secret, brings pain, although unintentionally to his family, friends and Lana. That's what Clark sees comes with his secret.

And yet without Clark's powers, these people wouldn't be alive and kickin'

Timester

11-20-2005, 02:40 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
BTW Clark and Lana aren't mismatched. It's just that Siegel and Schuster made her his girlfriend in the years before Superman.

Actually, none of the creators created Lana (nor Superboy) and it was one of the reasons of the rift between them and DC Comics (they didn't liked it).

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 02:47 PM

Forget for a sec. about the suit and think about what Superman really stands for. He should learn by now that his powers are a gift not a burden. He should learn by now that he could do extroadinary things with what he's given. That's what Chloe sees in him.

But you also need to see what Clark sees. Which is people coming after his parents, because of his secret. Pete getting beaten up by an FBI agent and leaving, because of his secret. Lana and him being torn a part because of it. That's what Clark see's and there's also the Lex going after Chloe factor. If Clark was normal, that wouldn't have happened.

Once again, he should learn by now that every time he disobeys him, bad stuff happens. That is one thing he should learn about Jor-el no matter what his intentions are. \

Maybe, still is hard though to listen to someone like that.

And there are times when Clark doesn't listen to them and actually manages to do the right thing according to his intuiton right?

Some of the time.

And yet without Clark's powers, these people wouldn't be alive and kickin'

That's true, but that's not what he thinks of it.

Timester

11-20-2005, 02:49 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Oh, he knows? So he knows he's going to be flying around wearing a cape? Really? Please.....

He does have the powers to change the world, doesn't he? He was raised to use his powers to help people, wasn't he? So, is a question of "does he know?", it's more of "does he wants" (it seems not...). And if he doesn't know, he is dumber then I thought.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Except he doesn't know Jor-el's intentions, does he? Which is why he chooses not to listen to him.

He knew about the crystals and that they were dangerous (or else Jor-El wouldn't send him on a Crusade to get them, whatever were the reasons), but he decided not to do nothing. Imagine that the crystals were a nuke bomb (they were more powerfull, actually).

ma200

11-20-2005, 02:54 PM

Timester, these are my quotes above...not Smallvilleman's

Timester

11-20-2005, 02:56 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
But you also need to see what Clark sees. Which is people coming after his parents, because of his secret. Pete getting beaten up by an FBI agent and leaving, because of his secret. Lana and him being torn a part because of it. That's what Clark see's and there's also the Lex going after Chloe factor. If Clark was normal, that wouldn't have happened.

That has nothing to do with what he can do or not, but only the fact that he has a secret (the secret could be a cow genetic law on the barn and Pete could also be beaten because of it). The secret never stopped him of saving people, why it would now be a reason? He chooses to see the powers as a burden when the only thing that really is a burden is the secret (hiding them to everyone to protect himself and his family). Powers = burden, that's Peter Parker, not Clark Kent.

Originally posted by ma200
Timester, these are my quotes...not Smallvilleman's

I knew that was doing something wrong. :p

Sorry, going to correct that.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 02:59 PM

He does have the powers to change the world, doesn't he? He was raised to use his powers to help people, wasn't he? So, is a question of "does he know?", it's more of "does he wants" (it seems not...). And if he doesn't know, he is dumber then I thought.

Ummm.....That wasn't my quote above. Clark was raised to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean he knows the bigger picture here. He knows he can help people, but he doesn't know what Jor-el wants him to do or how much he really can help. It's not like he knows exactly what his destiny is, he can not fully know his destiny, until he fully knows about himself. Which he doesn't.

He knew about the crystals and that they were dangerous (or else Jor-El wouldn't send him on a Crusade to get them, whatever were the reasons), but he decided not to do nothing. Imagine that the crystals were a nuke bomb (they were more powerfull, actually).

Like I said above, he doesn't know Jor-el's intentions. So, i'm not sure he believed before the meteor shower that Jor-el was sending him after the crystals to prevent danger from coming to earth. And again, Clark AND his parents decided to do nothing. The key word being AND.

That has nothing to do with what he can do or not, but only the fact that he has a secret (the secret could be a cow genetic law on the barn and Pete could also be beaten because of it). The secret never stopped him of saving people, why it would now be a reason? He chooses to see the powers as a burden when the only thing that really is a burden is the secret (hiding them to everyone to protect himself and his family). Powers = burden, that Peter Parker.

Wha? That makes no sense. The reason Pete was beaten up, was because of CLARK, because of his secret. Lionel sent the guy after Pete, had it not been for Clark's secret, that wouldn't have happened. I don't see the point of your example at all. The secret never stopped him of saving people? What? Huh?

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Timester

I knew that was doing something wrong. :p

Sorry, going to correct that.

Apology accepted. :p

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Ummm.....That wasn't my quote above. Clark was raised to do the right thing, but that doesn't mean he knows the bigger picture here. He knows he can help people, but he doesn't know what Jor-el wants him to do or how much he really can help. It's not like he knows exactly what his destiny is, he can not fully know his destiny, until he fully knows about himself. Which he doesn't.

And who said I was talking about Jor-El? I'm talking about Clark and the fact he is reactive, not pro-active. Chloe is more of a hero then Clark is. Remember, Batman is a superhero even without any powers at all.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Like I said above, he doesn't know Jor-el's intentions. So, i'm not sure he believed before the meteor shower that Jor-el was sending him after the crystals to prevent danger from coming to earth. And again, Clark AND his parents decided to do nothing. The key word being AND.

Again, Clark knew that the crystals were important/dangerous. It's the nuke metaphor again.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:07 PM

And who said I was talking about Jor-El? I'm talking about Clark and the fact he is reactive, not pro-active. Chloe is more of a hero then Clark is. Remember, Batman is a superhero even without any powers at all.

I never said you were talking about Jor-el, did I? Wow, don't tell me you're actually comparing chloe to batman.......

Again, Clark knew that the crystals were important/dangerous. It's the nuke metaphor again.

He knew they were important to Jor-el, which doesn't really mean anything to Clark.

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by Timester
And who said I was talking about Jor-El? I'm talking about Clark and the fact he is reactive, not pro-active. Chloe is more of a hero then Clark is. Remember, Batman is a superhero even without any powers at all.

It's kinda sad that SV's version of CK is beneath Batman.

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Wha? That makes no sense. The reason Pete was beaten up, was because of CLARK, because of his secret. Lionel sent the guy after Pete, had it not been for Clark's secret, that wouldn't have happened. I don't see the point of your example at all. The secret never stopped him of saving people? What? Huh?

Secret is that, a secret. Pete was beaten because Clark's secret, not because Clark's powers. Ok, Clark's powers are the secret, but if the secret was another (the "cow genetic lab")? Lionel was interested on Clark because he has a secret, not because he has powers. The secret is the burden, not the powers.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:12 PM

Apology accepted.

I feel affended having someone elses words placed under my name. Can't I sue for that?:D :p

Secret is that, a secret. Pete was beaten because Clark's secret, not because Clark's powers. Ok, Clark's powers are the secret, but if the secret was another (the "cow genetic lab")? Lionel was interested on Clark because he has a secret, not because he has powers. The secret is the burden, not the powers.

Make up your mind, are the powers the secret or not?

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:12 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I feel affended having someone elses words placed under my name. Can't I sue for that?:D :p

:lol:

Wow, I'm lost. I don't know what to debate anymore.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:14 PM

:rotfl: muahahahha

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:14 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan

Make up your mind, are the powers the secret or not?

I think what Timester meant is that Lionel knew that Clark has a mind-boggling secret, but he just doesn't know what it is otherwise it wouldn't be called a secret.

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:15 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I never said you were talking about Jor-el, did I? Wow, don't tell me you're actually comparing chloe to batman.......

No, I'm comparing Clark to a hero. Whitney was a true hero, he died for his country. He was pro-active. Clark, he is a hero by force.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
He knew they were important to Jor-el, which doesn't really mean anything to Clark.

So, leaving something that is important to Jor-El (even without knowing his true intentions) around there to anyone to get him isn't important? It's like knowing there is a gun a table and knowing that a kid could get it.

Originally posted by ma200
I think what Timester meant is that Lionel knew that Clark has a mind-boggling secret, but he just doesn't know what it is otherwise it wouldn't be called a secret.

Exactly.

smallville_fetish

11-20-2005, 03:20 PM

Perhaps this thread titled Lana with too many A's and N's should be changed to Clark.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:22 PM

I think what Timester meant is that Lionel knew that Clark has a mind-boggling secret, but he just doesn't know what it is otherwise it wouldn't be called a secret.

Give Lionel a little more credit than that. In my opinion, Lionel knew this:

1. That Clark was connected to the symbols in the cave wall.

2. Clark has "gifts".

3. Clark is much more than a regular kansas farm boy.

I'd bet the bank Lionel knew that much. Which is why he choose not to go after Clark. Lionel always knows more.

No, I'm comparing Clark to a hero. Whitney was a true hero, he died for his country. He was pro-active. Clark, he is a hero by force.

Most of the time, but Chloe does go around looking to save day like Batman. Chloe is also a hero by force. Her friends are in trouble, so she tries to save them, like Clark. Please don't put Chloe on batman or Whitney's level.

So, leaving something that is important to Jor-El (even without knowing his true intentions) around there to anyone to get him isn't important? It's like knowing there is a gun a table and knowing that a kid could get it.

I can't understand you? You're saying that leaving the stones around for someone else to get is stupid of Clark? Even though it's very clear that the only person who had a chance at getting all the stones was Clark.

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Most of the time, but Chloe does go around looking to save day like Batman. Chloe is also a hero by force. Her friends are in trouble, so she tries to save them, like Clark. Please don't put Chloe on batman or Whitney's level.

It's an example of action and reaction like many others. Aquaman was another.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I can't understand you? You're saying that leaving the stones around for someone else to get is stupid of Clark? Even though it's very clear that the only person who had a chance at getting all the stones was Clark.

Actually, Clark didn't got any, he only discovered about the wall on the temple in China. Lex discovered the first, Lionel the second and Isobel the third. And even after that, even when Clark knew that Lex and Lanabel were looking for the crystals, he decides to do nothing about it.

cotton candy girl

11-20-2005, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Timester
Actually, none of the creators created Lana (nor Superboy) and it was one of the reasons of the rift between them and DC Comics (they didn't liked it).

:confused: You're gonna have to tell me what you're talking about.

EDIT: Oh, you mean DC Comics created her? How does that change what I said other than it was DC who made Lana his girlfriend?

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by smallville_fetish
Perhaps this thread titled Lana with too many A's and N's should be changed to Clark.

Just to see how much people really missed Lana on "Solitude", when we start talking about Clark on her thread. :lol: :p

cotton candy girl

11-20-2005, 03:34 PM

Many threads go off-topic. So what's the point?

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
:confused: You're gonna have to tell me what you're talking about.

Lana was created for the Superboy comics. But Superboy comics (or Earth-1 Superman) as nothing to do with Schuster and Siegel.

"Superboy was originally simply Superman as a boy and was essentially treated as a junior version of Superman. To that end, Superboy wore the Superman costume and his alter ego Clark Kent wore glasses as a disguise for his civilian identity. The character was created without the permission of Superman's creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, a fact which increased an already-growing rift between them and the publisher, DC Comics."

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:35 PM

It's an example of action and reaction like many others. Aquaman was another.

And.....

Actually, Clark didn't got any, he only discovered about the wall on the temple in China. Lex discovered the first, Lionel the second and Isobel the third. And even after that, even when Clark knew that Lex and Lanabel were looking for the crystals, he decides to do nothing about it.

Actually, Clark or Kal-el did get one and it was in the cave wall. Therefore making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to unight them all. Clark knew they couldn't unight the stones, because yet again, he had one in a place they could never have imagined about.

Just to see how much people really missed Lana on "Solitude", when we start talking about Clark on her thread.

About as much as people missed Lois in Mortal and Hidden:D

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by cotton candy girl
Many threads go off-topic. Doesn't prove we didn't miss Lana.

It was just a joke (that's usually what the :p means)...

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Give Lionel a little more credit than that. In my opinion, Lionel knew this:

1. That Clark was connected to the symbols in the cave wall.

2. Clark has "gifts".

3. Clark is much more than a regular kansas farm boy.

I'd bet the bank Lionel knew that much. Which is why he choose not to go after Clark. Lionel always knows more.

No clue what you're talking about...Lionel did go after him quite a few times. All the things that you listed are just speculations that Lionel thought up. He doesn't know if they're true or not.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Most of the time, but Chloe does go around looking to save day like Batman. Chloe is also a hero by force. Her friends are in trouble, so she tries to save them, like Clark. Please don't put Chloe on batman or Whitney's level.

This is about motivation.

Chloe's motivation is to do the right thing, it's just something that she wants to do, not because she felt she had to. She was never a heroine by force.

Clark's motivation is based primarily on guilt...which is a big no no for the future Superman.

Originally posted by Timester
Just to see how much people really missed Lana on "Solitude", when we start talking about Clark on her thread. :lol: :p

Yeah, not everything's about Lana...or Chloe. :lol:

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:38 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Actually, Clark or Kal-el did get one and it was in the cave wall. Therefore making it IMPOSSIBLE for anyone to unight them all. Clark knew they couldn't unight the stones, because yet again, he had one in a place they could never have imagined about.

Lex was the one that found it in Egypt, Lionel one in the old Maya ruins and Isobel the third in China. I seriously don't remember about a crystal in the cave wall.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:44 PM

No clue what you're talking about...Lionel did go after him quite a few times. All the things that you listed are just speculations that Lionel thought up. He doesn't know if they're true or not.

He believes they are true and Lionel didn't go after him quite a few times. I don't know what you're talking about there.

Chloe's motivation is to do the right thing, it's just something that she wants to do, not because she felt she had to.

No, Chloe's motivation is to save her friends, just like Clark's motivation. Chloe doesn't go around saying, "Look a person in distress." I must help them.

Lex was the one that found it in Egypt, Lionel one in the old Maya ruins and Isobel the third in China. I seriously don't remember about a crystal in the cave wall.

I said CLARK GOT IT, how he got it, doesn't matter. Clark got it from lex's plane and put in the chamber wall in the cave to hide it.

Timester

11-20-2005, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I said CLARK GOT IT, how he got it, doesn't matter. Clark got it from lex's plane and put in the chamber wall in the cave to hide it.

Clark got it.. controlled by the same Jor-El you were saying that Clark doesn't trust. No, Clark didn't got any, he didn't looked for them, he was again reactive, taking action after something forced him. And that's my problem with Clark. And now someone is going to die to force him again to act...

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:51 PM

Clark got it.. controlled by the same Jor-El you were saying that Clark doesn't trust. No, Clark didn't got any, he didn't looked for them, he was again reactive, taking action after something forced him. And that's my problem with Clark. And now someone is going to die to force him again to act...

Clark doesn't or didn't trust him. It doesn't matter that Clark didn't look for any, he got one, that's the point. There's no way in his mind that any of them could unight the stones, because Clark had one where no one could find it. That is the point, Clark knew no one could unight them.

ma200

11-20-2005, 03:52 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
He believes they are true and Lionel didn't go after him quite a few times. I don't know what you're talking about there.

Ahhh...once again, I don't what were debating about. Let's throw this one out. :lol:

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
No, Chloe's motivation is to save her friends, just like Clark's motivation. Chloe doesn't go around saying, "Look a person in distress." I must help them.

No, it's not the same. Chloe's motivation since the Pilot is to help people because that's what she wants to do.

Clark's motivation for saving people's lives either has to something to do with his friends and family for obvious reasons, or for saving meteor mutants that he felt responsible for them being the way they are.

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
I said CLARK GOT IT, how he got it, doesn't matter. Clark got it from lex's plane and put in the chamber wall in the cave to hide it.

It's not a chamber wall...it's a table.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 03:55 PM

Ahhh...once again, I don't what were debating about. Let's throw this one out.

Sure.

It's not a chamber wall...it's a table.

It's in the chamber wall, where the table is.....

No, it's not the same. Chloe's motivation since the Pilot is to help people because that's what she wants to do.

Who was she willingly helped without Clark asking her to? Or without it being a friend in trouble or someone a situation that was called on her.

ma200

11-20-2005, 04:01 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan

Who was she willingly helped without Clark asking her to? Or without it being a friend in trouble or someone a situation that was called on her.

Remember Exposed? and I'm sure there are other episodes I'm just too lazy to remember right now.

And I have no clue how this once again, became all about Chloe.

This is about Clark and who and what he is all about.

I don't want to see Clark deciding to accept his destiny because of obligation. I want him to see him become the man he is more or less meant to be because he wants to; because saving people is what he wants to do.

Four and a half years of him b#$*)#ing and whining about wanting to be normal is getting tiresome. :rolleyes:

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 04:03 PM

Exposed would be the one and only. Although the reason Chloe went there for was to get a big story not to actually help her.

Four and a half years of him b#$*)#ing and whining about wanting to be normal is getting tiresome.

Hey, welcome to the life of a teen:p

ma200

11-20-2005, 04:05 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Exposed would be the one and only. Although the reason Chloe went there for was to get a big story not to actually help her.

Hey, welcome to the life of a teen:p

I'm 19 years old and I'm well past that. :D

And as for the whole topic about Chloe...ahh screw it, I don't care if she drops dead or not. I don't care about her anymore.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 04:07 PM

I'm 19 years old and I'm well past that.

Everyone's different, but i'd say the majority of teens, whine and moan about life. To me, it just makes Clark more real.

And as for the whole topic about Chloe...ahh screw it, I don't care if she drops dead or not.

I'll agree to that:rotfl: Now we better run.....

smoky

11-20-2005, 04:15 PM

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 04:19 PM

And now, someone close to him is going to die.

And if he had known that, he would have ran as fast as he could to the FOS to prevent it.

captaincharisma

11-20-2005, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
And if he had known that, he would have ran as fast as he could to the FOS to prevent it.

He knows not to mess with his Daddy though. When he says something you sit up and take notice but Clark chose to ignore it and now he will face the consequences.

SmallvilleMan

11-20-2005, 04:25 PM

:rotfl: :rotfl:

smoky

11-20-2005, 04:56 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Everyone's different, but i'd say the majority of teens, whine and moan about life. To me, it just makes Clark more real.

I'll agree to that:rotfl: Now we better run..... You're free to like or dislike whomever you want. Especially when we're talking about characters on a t.v. show! I did miss Lana/KK in this episode but I also realize that because she does not know the secret there really was no place for her in this episode.

CK&CK

11-20-2005, 11:01 PM

Originally posted by SmallvilleMan
Yes, it does make sense. Like original point said, I can't blame someone for being obtuse when they get their perfect life that they've always wanted.

No, it doesn't make sense, not for his level of experience. Too be oblivious to it (over the several month time frame of this perfect life & with Chloe occasionally reminding him), especially with his past experiences would be Stupid. To simply ignore them and not worry at all, well, that would be obtuse (actually, I'm thinking that's pretty stupid to, but lets go with obtuse). If you don't want to blame him, then don't........I'm sure the person dying in his place during episode 100 (if the person were real of course) would have an issue with that. But I'm tired of debating this point. Let's just stick with the point that blameless or not......he is Obtuse.....especially given the fact that he had so much time to think about it. But I guess as far as Clark's brain is concerned......he really did learn from at least one past experience......."Sometimes it's easier just to turn the power off".

Back on Topic......Didn't miss the Angry Squirrel one bit. After the awesomeness & Lana-Less of "Solitude" I think I can handle one or two Pinkie Centric episodes now......and Lexmas Looks to Be Good!

Viva Lexanna!

Mr. E

11-21-2005, 06:24 AM

A man once told me, "You show me a good episode and I'll show one without Lana." :)

LovelyLoisLane

11-21-2005, 09:22 AM

It's a long time coming. She has been forced into every-single-episode for FOUR YEARS while other character favorites that could have been used better (and I'm talking BEFORE S4 , so no this isn't a Lois-pro active post) were cast aside. I had similar complaints about certain episodes with Lois in them last year and I love her to death. Sometimes a character isn't necessary and feels force fed into the episode. Lana would have felt forced if they had placed her in this. What would she have done? Make a worried face at the Kent home and ask if Martha was okay only to have Jonathan or Clark make her leave so wouldn't discover anything they don't want her to? Honestly. It would have used up show time better used for the plotline.

I think it's great on the whole that in it's fifth season the show's writers are finally realising that it's better to try and make a smooth story instead of trying to give a certain actor screen time because a few fans will be mad. I miss Lois when she's gone but I can enjoy an episode without her in it if it was a good episode and she would have been useless eye candy besides. "Run" and "Transference" come to mind.

SmallvilleMan

11-21-2005, 11:39 AM

QUOTE]You're free to like or dislike whomever you want. Especially when we're talking about characters on a t.v. show! I did miss Lana/KK in this episode but I also realize that because she does not know the secret there really was no place for her in this episode.[/QUOTE]

It would have been nice for her to be there for moral support to Clark. That kind of annoys me that she couldn't have been there for that, although I do know why.

No, it doesn't make sense, not for his level of experience. Too be oblivious to it (over the several month time frame of this perfect life & with Chloe occasionally reminding him), especially with his past experiences would be Stupid. To simply ignore them and not worry at all, well, that would be obtuse (actually, I'm thinking that's pretty stupid to, but lets go with obtuse). If you don't want to blame him, then don't........I'm sure the person dying in his place during episode 100 (if the person were real of course) would have an issue with that. But I'm tired of debating this point. Let's just stick with the point that blameless or not......he is Obtuse.....especially given the fact that he had so much time to think about it. But I guess as far as Clark's brain is concerned......he really did learn from at least one past experience......."Sometimes it's easier just to turn the power off".

I'm tired of arguing this too. Obviously I can't get you to understand what a perfect life means to someone, then there's no point. Oh and i'm sure the person dying wouldn't have an issue with it. I'm sure Chloe or the Kents would gladly give their life for Clarks.

It's a long time coming. She has been forced into every-single-episode for FOUR YEARS while other character favorites that could have been used better (and I'm talking BEFORE S4 , so no this isn't a Lois-pro active post) were cast aside. I had similar complaints about certain episodes with Lois in them last year and I love her to death. Sometimes a character isn't necessary and feels force fed into the episode. Lana would have felt forced if they had placed her in this. What would she have done? Make a worried face at the Kent home and ask if Martha was okay only to have Jonathan or Clark make her leave so wouldn't discover anything they don't want her to? Honestly. It would have used up show time better used for the plotline.

It's not necessary for Lana to come support her boyfriend? Come to at least see if a mother figure to her is okay? Really?.....