So is it Jor-El or Zod

[jag5311]

Ok, so have the voices we have been hearing, are those of Zod tricking clark, or are those of the real Jor-El.

I am under the impression it was Zod or Brainiac the whole time...and that we have yet to hear the real Jor-El.


UNLESS

remember when Clark blamed Martha's issue on Jor-El and he said

"I have caused your mother no harm"

So maybe that was the real Jor-El.

[superhippie2000]

i think jor el is the real jor el i dont think they would make the show that confusing where jor el is actually someone else.

[fattire]

Yeah man, your looking way too far into it. It's been jor-el whenever jor-el spoke. In fact, I think fine has only been fine as well. the only ambigous character is lionel, who, is really jor-el.

I heard a really interesting theory on here somehow explaining how everything Jor-El has done is in accordance with the Jor-El we knew everwhere else...just that he was misinterpreted by the Kents. As viewers, we tend to site with the protagonist. but if you re-watch every jor-el scene, everything he says has an interpretation and an angle where he really is the benevolent jor-el we know. try it, im not kidding

[vikingjedi]

Something caught my attention.

Remember Jor-El told Clark that his destiny was to become the ruler of Earth.

Then tonight when Brainiac was lying to Clark about Jor-El he said that Jor-El wanted Clark to conquer Earth and rule it.

After Brainiac revealed himself Clark said you weren't talking about Jor-El you were talking about Zod.

Makes me think Brainiac has been sent by Zod to confuse Clark while Zod pretends he is Jor-El so he won't know who to believe.

Before Jor-el (Zod) was the bad guy and Brainiac was the good guy. Now that Brainiac has revealed himself Clark is thinking Jor-El (Zod) is the good guy and Brainiac is the bad guy. As a result Clark might try to trust Jor-El (Zod) more than he did before.

In reality maybe they are both bad and they're trying to manipulate Clark.

[tejdog1]

Huh? *massages brain* It's late, man, stop making sense!
They're both villians. Brainiac and Zod. The theory has been "Jor-El" is either Brainiac, Zod, or the Eradicator. Now, a friend and I are sort of workin on a fanfic, and she gave me a link to an info page on the Eradicator, and the descriptions sounded exactly like "Jor-El" on the show. So right now...I'd say "Jor-El" isn't the true Jor-El.

[Xerox]

Isn't Jor-el really death though so how can Clark really ask Jor-el questions and get an exact response? So I'm thinking it might be Zod

[Small2]

The Voice has never been the real Jor-El. It has either been ZOD or Brainiac, and I'm not sure it matters.

Remember when Clark goes up to the FOS the first time this ep and talks to the Voice? The Voice tells him that yes his mother is dying because Clark disobeyed him and that the wheels of destiny, (or some such thing) have started.

If the Voice was really Jor-El then no way would it imply that. It would know that either that something was amiss, or the truth that ZOD/Brainiac had infected Martha.

Another point is how would Prof. Fine know of the deal that the Voice made with Clark for bringing him back from the dead, unless he was in on it?

Finally, if Jor-El was the Voice in the FOS, why after the battle with Brianiac wouldn't he say something?

Jor-El is dead. The Voice has either been ZOD or Brainiac the whole time. The last scene between Clark and his Dad was just the writers messing with your minds.

[HornFan02]

The voice is NOT Zod, nor brainiac. It actually is the spirit of Jor'el.

Jorel stated he caused Martha no harm. This is true. Everything he stated afterwords pertains to Clark, and that the wheels of time had already been set in motion due to Clark's actions. Clark has his destiny in place, already falling into place. The reason for the drama is there is some confusion in Jor`El's message. That is why we have TV.

There is no trickery here. Brainiac was locked away in space in his ship, Zod is in the phantom zone, and Jor'el is in the FoS, just like the movies.

[Rozq]

OMG, so many people has problems with thinking O_o

The voice in the FOS was Jor-El, ZOD can't say nothing cuz he's in the phantom zone, duh..

P.S - don't flame me because im beautiful

[Small2]

No reason to flame.

It's an honest difference of opinions.

[<<S>>]

Remember when Clark goes up to the FOS the first time this ep and talks to the Voice? The Voice tells him that yes his mother is dying because Clark disobeyed him and that the wheels of destiny, (or some such thing) have started.

I dont remember but I thought that Jor el never mentioned Clark's mom and dying. He was just responding in general to someoen close dying,and that's why he stated the wheels of destiny are in motion and not even you, kal el, can stop it. Clark was impying the disease that Brainiac infected in Martha, and Jor El was generalizing and saying someone close will die and you cant change it. So I do think the voice was real but Jor El was generalizing when he made that statement and Clark took it literally to mean his mom dying.

[auctionrick]

Look at it this way.
The FOS came from the 3 crystals, not from a green crystal that came with Kal-el from Krypton (As in the 1st Superman movie). Now if we assume that Jor-el was able to imprint his being onto those crystals when he was on Earthback in the 50's or really anytime after that, which is the only way he would be able to communicate with Clark now, then we can also assume that Zod could have done the same thing. Either being the only one to imprint the crystals or overwriting Jor-els imput and having a chance to destroy Jor-el's son.
From the beginning I suspected (mainly because they used the voice of Terance Stamp), that it wasn't Jor-el, but accually Zod. How ironic, I thought, would that be and what a laugh TPTB would have on all superman fans.
Think about it

[FlashFan]

I'm thinking that:

The message from Kal's ship was Zod or Brainiac.
The cave voice, and the FoS are actually Jor-El.

[MidgardDragon]

Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. Remember this.

[djpnutz]

can you say whoops... It was a really confusing episode with the whole jor-el, brainiac, zod, clark who's saying what plot.

[auctionrick]

Originally posted by MidgardDragon
Sometimes the simplest explanation is the correct one. Remember this.

You may be right.
It just struck me odd when I 1st heard it, that they would use Tarance Stamp's voice for Jor-el and wouldn't it be neat if it really was Zod

[Magus]

You guys are looking way too into it. AlMiles aren't that complex. lol jk.

[auctionrick]

Time makes hero's and fools out of us all.

[Small2]

you may be correct.

My problem with the keep it simple, the Voice has always been Jor-El, is then the storylines are just bad. Not to say that isn't so, but I would have some major problems with a couple of the characters.

Something to ponder.

[auctionrick]

Originally posted by Small2
you may be correct.

My problem with the keep it simple, the Voice has always been Jor-El, is then the storylines are just bad. Not to say that isn't so, but I would have some major problems with a couple of the characters.

Something to ponder.
Maybe we assume it's Jor-el as we are lead to believe. The conquer refrences that came from Jor-el just seam to be out of charactor for the Jor-el we have known before Smallville. It will be interesting to see how TPTB fit this reference into Superman's future. Although that is the least that they have to fit into the story. How the are going to get around Lex recognizing Clark when he becomes Superman, now thats a biggey. And also left for another discussion.

Also, what problems?

[Small2]

Well first,
Jor-El
Heres a character that from the movie, Superman:The Movie and based on the trailer, the soon to be released movie, is portrayed as a kind, caring person who thinks humans have potential, and are basically good.

In SV the character is one who feels humans are weak and of little consequence, and should be ruled. He is willing to keep a dead human girl in some form of life, for 14 years, to entice Clark to come to him, and then destroys her when she is no longer needed. He's willing to kill anyone Clark loves to have Clark obey him. He has Clark for three months to be reborn as Kal-El but still needs time in the FOS?

Jor-El is dead, but is fully conscious and almost a demi-god.

And Clark is going to willingly become Superman and embrace his destiny based on these characterestics?

I'll stop here.

[jimmyolsenblues]

I believe the voice we here is Jor-El or eradicator, but Not Zod. Zod is trapped in the neutral zone and can't use the phone.

[superspider02]

Well i think it been Jor-el the whole time. The ship message i believe was misread by clark and jor-el is just testing him and trying to make him a better person.

[auctionrick]

Originally posted by superspider02
Well i think it been Jor-el the whole time. The ship message i believe was misread by clark and jor-el is just testing him and trying to make him a better person.
He either knows the language thru the download (vis a vi - the matrix) or he dosen't. Plus the way Jor-el? talks to him never gives Clark any indication that he should believe the word conquered would mean anything else. That is why Clark was so quick to believe the Prof. It just makes sense in so many ways that Jor-el is not Jor-el, he's Zod

[Silent Kal]

My first thought is that, yes, the voice in the cave/FOS might be ZOD, instead of Jor-El.

But the question then is, who is the Presence inhabiting Lionel? (Specifically, the scene in Hidden where "He" tells Clark he loves him and then gives him a hug.) If Jor-El is really dead and gone, as some believe, who is that?

It can't be ZOD, because just as the cold and warlike attributes are completely unlike Jor-El (as we assume he is), the warm and loving fatherly attributes are completely unlike ZOD.

Thoughts?

[wickedsmart]

I dont think it could be zod or brainiac because theres not enough evidence in past comics or movies that either zod or brainiac have to power to erect the fortress of solitude; also, in the movie there is a scene exactly like the one in commencement before the fortress of solitude came up, so i dont think the show is gonna throw u off with a fortress thats fake (being that zod is actually the voice) and have to do it again for real again later. The premonition that someone close to clark would die is not so much as jor-el implicating he will have to kill someone, but that someone will inevitably die.

I think the jor-el in the show is just a little different, maybe he feels he needs to be a little tougher on clark to get him to start his journey, cuz i mean hes 18 already and in the movie by now, he should be getting lessons from jor-el.

anyway, zod is stuck in the phantom zone so i doubt hes omniscient. even if he managed to imprint his spirit into a crystal as did jor-el, i doubt he wouldve thought to do so because he was imprisoned prior to krypton being destroyed and without knowledge that jor-el would send kal-el to another planet, let alone earth. braniac might be able to pull something like this off (program himself to be the voice of the fortress) but i doubt he can be at two places at the same time as well. so yeah, jor-el is for real, zod is in the phantom zone, and brainiac by now probably programmed his memory into the ship so he could resurface sometime later on (which will probably happen at the end of the season to give it a great season finale)

[Zooks]

Jor-El has never asked Clark in person to rule the world. The only thing that told Clark to rule was the message in Rosetta, which could have been corrupted.

[Timester]

Originally posted by Magus
You guys are looking way too into it. AlMiles aren't that complex. lol jk.

That's the true answer. AlMiles don't really care how Jor-El sounds or not, but the fact is that is Jor-El. Zod is trapped inside the PZ and Brainiac was part of the black ship, that's it.

[auctionrick]

the building of the FOS predates jor-el. Ancient legend has it that when you combine the 3 crystals you get a body of knowledge that surpasses the library at Alexandrea. (paraphrased). So even if Zod imprinted the crystals, it would not make the fortress fake. If we take the movie as fact, Jor-el was working on and towards his theory that Krypton was going tp blow up before he imprisoned Zod in the PZ. Now if Zod thought that Jor-el was right and knew that his planet was going to be destroyed, why not jump the gun, imprint the crystals on earth so that who ever found them (even if it wasn't Zod) Zod would have influence over them. The space ship that the 2 kryptonians were in must have been launched before Krypton blew up. How about Zod setting up a contigency plan incase he was caught on Krypton, and the message came from the space ship.
Whew!
Or maybe Jor-el is Jor-el
But what if he's not?

[ShaftDu]

Hi, I was going to start another thread but I figure I should contribute to this one since it goes along with the old age Smallville debate of Zod and Jor-el. There has always been that connection between the movies and Smallville with the obvious Terrance Stamp. And for a while a lot of people, I including, thought it would have been cool if Jor-el was really Zod. However, I heard the news that Superman Returns will be the continuation of the Donner’s Superman so Zod was a mute point. However, with the name being said in season opener, my head was again race with thoughts about Jor-el actually being Zod. There is no way this could happen.

However in last night’s show, I changed my mind and went back to the original thought that he must be Zod. Brainiac told Clark that Jor-el sent him to rule the human race. Whoa, isn’t that classified information? I mean how the heck Brainiac knew word for word that Jor-el told Clark. And now we know that Brainiac is really working for Zod.

It hit me today at work. Spyware! Yes Spyware is why I think Zod is really Jor-el. Okay, hear me out on this one, I do believe somehow the real Jor-el sent Clark away. I do believe he wanted Clark to build the icy FOS with the combined stones. However, like Spyware hijacks your browser, I believe Zod somehow manage to hijack Clark’s baby’s ship. Maybe Brainic develop a way to allow Zod to come out of the phantom zone. But really, Zod was trap in the programming of the FOS. Take a look where Brainiac was trying to get him out and how. He made Clark place the black crystal at the FOS. Why couldn’t Brainiac just go down to the local 7-11 and summon Zod there? Why was it important to do it at the FOS? I think Zod is trapped with the FOS OR he was placed in some type of program within Clark’s ship. And I do believe Zod was speeding up the process.

I still believe that this Jor-el cannot be THAT evil.

[auctionrick]

I believe that if we can think of these things, so can TPTB.
How about this. Jor-el set up something as a fail safe so that if the imprint was corrupted or superceded,on the stones, Jor-el would be able to act independant through any one of the stones and transfer his imprint onto or into another vessel Lionel. Why would there be 2 agencies that Jor-el would be working through. I don't think there could be. He transfered his imprint before the FOS was built. He would be on the imprint after that.
Maybe?

I mean he would not be on the imprint after that.

[ballofsteel]

The voice was Jor-El. He saved Clark when he got shot, he took away Clarks powers....

HE IS THE ONLY ONE THAT CAN DO THIS...maybe...

[auctionrick]

So I'm straight, FOS jor-el took away his powers and Lion-el brought Clark back to the FOS jor-el which brought him back to life. (Both had differant reason's. Why? Lion-el is his father enough said and FOS jor-el (Zod) knew that only Clark could distroy the FOS. and gave him back his powers. Lion-el told Clark that for him to come back to life someone else must die. The price he knew would be extracted from the FOS jor-el.
Is everybody with me.

[secondballer1221]

i think it is jor el spirt the whole time like the movie i don't think zod or braniac although the theorys are good but are you saying that if it is zod or branainc the whole time they were in the cave and the ship and things that sounds wack i think it has been jorel the whole time although it was werid he dind't say anyting but maybe he dind't becuase clark didnt ask him anything....

[luthorcorp]

did anyone else notice that jor-el spoke a little differntly in "solitude"