Lionel - the good guy?

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Lionel's character has taken some very interesting turns lately, and I think that most of them trace directly back to Transference.

After Transference, Lionel was downright goodie goodie. Wearing white suits and sweaters, making orange juice and setting up charities. That is, right up until Onyx, which is where the Lionel/Lex relationship takes a very interesting turn.

Lioenl suddenly (literrally before our eyes) becomes 'evil' again, with almost no provocation. But did he really? Sure, he reverts back to his old suits, and he drinks again, but beyond that, he's been markedly non-evil. He hasn't had anyone killed, though he did shoot Jason (non-fatal, and probably to protect Clark's secret) and he threatened Geneveive with Poison (she also didn't die).

All of the supposedly evil acts since then can be explained very simply. In Onyx, as evil!Lex was openly displayed, Lionel saw what a monster he had created. This man, who had truly changed for good, saw someone just as evil as he had been, but with greater ambitions, greater privileges, darker tendencies. Lionel was a kid from the Slums whose sole goal in life was money and success. Lex was born into it all, raised with millions at his disposal and set up to be fabulously successful. But Lex, like his father , wants what he wasn't raised with - namely power and a good name. (Remember, he was raised by Lionel, who domineered his entire life. He took the blame for Julians death, which branded him a murderer while still a child. His teenage attempts to rebel against his father only spread his bad boy image. He wants to be powerful, the one who dominates. He wants to be seen as pure and good. Considering that even now Lex is anything but pure and is only good for selfish purposes, that's scary. It's scarier still when we think of the anger that fills him, the cold cruelty that we've only seen glimpses of.

Lionel saw in his son the worst kind of evil; the power hungry tyrant, who would be seen as a saint. Being truly reformed to good, Lionel decides to turn his focus from helping all the world, to trying to save his son. He warns Lex about the stones, urging him to leave the obsession behind him and let some questions go unanswered. When Genevieve Teague threatened Lex, he responded in true Lionel form, but with concern for his son, which he had never shown before. When he came into possession of a stone, he concealed the fact to prevent it from falling into his sons hands. Though this back fired, it also allowed Jor-El to possess him, thus aiding Clark’s progression, which will keep Lex in check in the future. (An interesting question would be, does a transference with Jor-El effect Lionel the same way it did before? This time, he gained powers, but did it effect his soul?) Finally, he has decided to help both Chloe and Jonathan (former enemies) in order to prevent Lex’s rise to power.

Who is Lex? He is Sageeth, the friend who becomes an enemy. But who then is Lionel? He is the enemy that becomes a friend.

[lexs&os]

I like how Lionel's character intrigues me - he always has. I think he remained "good" after Transference and his quick change in Onyx, was perhaps Lionel at his best in some regards - being that, he realized the only way to get through to Lex was for Lex to believe his 'goody-2-shoes' dad was no more - taking a situation and manipulating it to regain control, only this time, it was for a good cause instead of a self serving one. The few episodes he's been in so far, he's remained mysterous - seeming somewhat questionnable on the outside but convincing you that he is good on the inside.

[LuthorRequiem2]

THAT IS SOME DEEP STUFF! I REALLY like your interpretation! It really makes you think, and the pieces of the puzzle that is Lionel actually start to come together. Personally, though, I hope Lionel is still a ruthless man, because that's the Lionel that's so fun to watch. But either way, it's very interesting character development. I agree that your theory may very well be correct. If not, then Lionel's still kinda evil. IF he still is evil, here's my theory on what's up with his character this season:

IF Lionel is still evil, then I don't think he truly is preventing Lex from rising to power because he wants to stop him from becoming evil. I think he's afraid Lex will become more powerful than him, and that would mean his son has won this ever-lasting battle between them. Lionel can't let that happen. He'lll do what it takes to stop Lex, even if, in the end, it means HIM running against him! He'll use clever cover-ups (such as wanting to stop Lex because he's afraid of Lex's darkness and his lust for power), but the truth will be inside his heart that he just doesn't want his son to beat him at his own game.

That's one interpretation. Yours is much deeper, but if we do have the good ol' evil Lionel back, then mine makes sense for his motives.

[Bobbie]

WOW............excellant read...........with lots of thought, thank you all for posting!!!!!

Yes I too am enjoying the Lionel twists and turns, using what he knows and being more positive with it.

[bowler_de90]

that was a very well written post, bravo. what your saying is that he is not a good guy, he just sees where Lex is headed and wants to stop it. however, he always was VERY interested in clark. do you think he knows the truth now? if so, is he going to do anything about it?

[tejdog1]

I don't know what to think, lol.

[tejdog1]

I don't know what to think, lol.

[LaraofKrypton]

Whoa....deep! But I like your thinkin'! I have noticed that something is up with Lionel, but I'm not entirely sure what yet. Your hypothesis is very convincing...I guess we will have to wait and see!

[tejdog1]

I don't know what to think, lol.

Dammit with the server! Sorry for posting 3 times.

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Originally posted by lexs&os
I like how Lionel's character intrigues me - he always has. I think he remained "good" after Transference and his quick change in Onyx, was perhaps Lionel at his best in some regards - being that, he realized the only way to get through to Lex was for Lex to believe his 'goody-2-shoes' dad was no more - taking a situation and manipulating it to regain control, only this time, it was for a good cause instead of a self serving one. The few episodes he's been in so far, he's remained mysterous - seeming somewhat questionnable on the outside but convincing you that he is good on the inside. Exactly! It's easy for some people to think that Lionel is still evil because he still lies, threatens, kills, etc. but that's not the case. He is truly a changed man, but one who knows only how to make underhanded power plays. He's still working with the vocabulary of deceit, but trying to say the right things, for the right reasons.

[Watching Smallville]

I really like this idea, and I hope that's what the writers are doing. It makes perfect sense, and clears up some of Lionel's actions that had me confused. I was always doubtful that he could change back to evil simply because Lex had swiped his cheek in Onyx. It didn't make sense to me. But pretending to be evil so that he can reach Lex in order to sway him away from evil -- that's a magnificent take on what happened. Let's hope the writers are that good!

That's a fine piece of thinking, MyOwnSuperhero.:D

[warriorrenegade]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Exactly! It's easy for some people to think that Lionel is still evil because he still lies, threatens, kills, etc. but that's not the case. He is truly a changed man, but one who knows only how to make underhanded power plays. He's still working with the vocabulary of deceit, but trying to say the right things, for the right reasons.

Both of you maybe on to something. I knew there was something diffrent about him he had the same mannerisms , verbage and arrogant attitude but it was as if he was putting up a facade.

Another thing. Do you think that Lex will ultimately see through this and Lionel will meet his demise?

[Timester]

IMO, this is happening because the Lionel character ended his purpose on the show (Lex becoming finally evil) and AlMiles just twist here and there just to keep the actor in the show (I suspect not for a very long time).

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Originally posted by Timester
IMO, this is happening because the Lionel character ended his purpose on the show (Lex becoming finally evil) and AlMiles just twist here and there just to keep the actor in the show (I suspect not for a very long time). Frankly I agree with you - a good Lionel, regardless of his actions, doesn't serve much purpose on the show. I think that he'll be leaving us soon as well.

However, while he's here, even if the writers were too shallow in their thinking to plan out such a character arc, I still like it.


Originally posted by warriorrenegade
Another thing. Do you think that Lex will ultimately see through this and Lionel will meet his demise? If that were to happen, it would be so cool, I might cry.

[Supersonic]

Wooooooo I love Lionel! Nice interpretation. Some parts were insightful - some parts were obvious, but I read it all and I liked it.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Lionel is one of my favorite characters, just because he keeps you guessing. Just when you fingure him out...BAM....he does something different. I just love that!!!!

Very good Interpretations here! It makes the brain work :lol:

Do i think that Lionel is as evil as he was before Transference? NO

Do I think that Lionel is as good as he was before Onyx? No

He is somewhere in between. HE sees good but if he has to stop his son then he will good back to his evil ways to stop him.

Man...a psychology class in college would have a field day with him!! Just think...the study of Lionel Luthor! I would take it!

[my3cats]

I can't see someone like Lionel reforming naturally. It just doesn't work that way. Then, He's been through so many possessions and mind whammies it's hard to keep track of.

It occurs to me, he seemed to develope some sort of psychic ability after being zapped by the stone, maybe it's still there. Maybe he is still Jor-El pretending to be normal-Lionel?
He knows Lex is the "Segeeth" of the prophecy and he knows (and cares) how dangerous Lex in a position of power would be.

[jimmyolsenblues]

Nice writing MyOwnSuperhero

[mantaray]

Lionel is still verabally abusive with Lex. He really put him down when he said, "Lana will never love you because those close to you know what's in your heart."

OUCH!

Burned.

I'd hate to have Lionel as my father.

[SmallvilleMan]

Seriously, Lex must have been the most depressed kid ever. Lionel would kill anyone one on one verbally.

[SteveS]

"Lana will never love you because those close to you know what's in your heart.

The truth hurts and Lionel told the truth to Lex. In reality it is a very gentle rebuke.

I am in agreement with the view that Lionel has changed for the good and that he will be dead soon.

[johnny fogg]

I thought Lionel was remaining morally ambiguous, until I realized he's sabatoging Lex's run for senate for a simple reason.

Lex isn't seeking power for the right reasons! He's doing it for some chick!!

Time to hammer on Lex some more and bend him into a tool for evil.

[djpnutz]

Very nice summary about the Friend becomes enemy, enemy becomes friend. I wonder what's gonna happen between the Luthor-Kent relationships!

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Originally posted by johnny fogg
Time to hammer on Lex some more and bend him into a tool for evil. Nah. Lionel quite that sometime ago. His comments about the darkness in his heart and the reasons Lana will never love him - he's trying to get Lex to see the light.

[Superdan13]

The Lana thing is Lionel making Lex realise he can't have what he wants all the time and since Lex craves power it might be him to curb Lex's ideology that what he wants he needs.

[All about Clark]

Originally posted by MyOwnSuperhero
Nah. Lionel quite that sometime ago. His comments about the darkness in his heart and the reasons Lana will never love him - he's trying to get Lex to see the light.

Which is why Lex is going to have the "dream".

[johnny fogg]

I honestly don't think Lionel is still good. I think it's just ambigous, inconsistent writing. Rather than overthink it, I think I'll just take Lionel at his word and believe it when he implies (imo) that Lex should take power for power's sake.

Also remember, that the only reason Lionel never went after political power of his own was probably too many people hated him. He probably influenced things behind the scenes, but I doubt he tried like crazy to make people adore him like Lex seems to do.

I realized awhile ago that Lionel doesn't care about people's perceptions of him, but Lex, being a guy who feels hated his whole life, would actually be trying to get power to make people like him, but becomes corrupted by the pursuit of power.

This weird complex about being liked would also explain Lex total intolerance of critism (censoring anti-Luthorcorp Fine and taking a golf club to a meter maid's windshield)

[Jlvsclrk]

Originally posted by johnny fogg
I realized awhile ago that Lionel doesn't care about people's perceptions of him, but Lex, being a guy who feels hated his whole life, would actually be trying to get power to make people like him, but becomes corrupted by the pursuit of power.

This weird complex about being liked would also explain Lex total intolerance of criticism (censoring anti-Luthorcorp Fine and taking a golf club to a meter maid's windshield)

Good point. And this is something that Lex has done right from the beginning: in season 1, Roger Nixon tried to blackmail him and Lex ruthlessly turned the tables, threatening Roger's very legal existence. "All" Lex wanted in return for staying his hand was for Nixon to write a few nice stories and quash any negative PR. Oh yes, and let's investigate the car crash while we're at it.