Just TIRED of it!

[lovelymissphoebe]

It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?

The episode was dreadful... By the end I was dying with laughter because it was so stupid and predictable "What? Lana lost her memory? What a surprise..........":rolleyes:

[neo_nate]

If you don't like it and you are getting tired of the "predictability" of it, just change the channel

[therip]

this season (with the exception of thirst) has been great..it's next season (if there is one) that's gonna suck the big one

[AnimeJoe]

What was so immoral about tonight's episode?

As for clean and innocent, maybe during their freshmen year in high school, lol.. But these are teens/young adults, expecting to ONLY get clean storyline content in regards to them is like expecting the Grand Theft Auto series to LOSE the violence ;)

[therip]

i wish it was immoral..they panned away from what would've been the greatest smallville moment ever...the girl-girl kiss with lana ;)

[Somebody Stop Me]

Originally posted by therip
i wish it was immoral..they panned away from what would've been the greatest smallville moment ever...the girl-girl kiss with lana ;)

So you don't find that immoral Mr?Mrs? non-gender person.

[Emerald Dragen]

As the characters age so does the show and the content, this is as it should be, it is a showman way of stating the changes and normality of the age these people are at.

[Oz.]

All i got to say is that I love watching Smallville and this season so far has been great but tonight *pause* DAMN! . .I found this episode to be boring:o but oh well theres always next week (lois stripping);)

[Premature Combustion]

I'm so tired of listening to people complaining about the morality of superman.

Every generation (and culture for that matter) has reinvented superman and his mythos to better suit the time in which they live. Superman stands for truth, justice, and the American Way. Today's America is not the same place that it was in 1938 or any any other time. And you know what? I don't want it to be.

LONG LIVE EVOLUTION!

[Bobbie]

I found that each show has moments that stand out, this one had them. And it was the Halloween Episode.............so as I say go with the flow...........I really enjoyed the comments........I dont like costumes..........and him saying he kindof liked the cape. And the Vampire wasn't the only story line going on.

[smallville_fetish]

smallville being moral would've been predictable. i'm happy they spiced things up a bit. at least it's not super tasteless?

besides.. their audience are either getting more mature or already are mature. not like they took it overboard, its still a tv show.

i agreed with the lana losing her memory though. the first thing i said was going to happen when she shot heat vision out of her eyes was, "shes not going to remember that" and then clark reassuring that she didnt remember anything was also predictable but he wasn't the one who saved the day?

[alternaLex]

yeah the episode wasn't the best, but like someone said above it was a Holloween episode. Relax, the back stories were excellent, and that's the most important part of the show.

[neo_nate]

yeah, i don't know why they didn' t show that kiss, it's not as bad as somethings being shown on TV

[Sydafex7]

Originally posted by neo_nate
yeah, i don't know why they didn' t show that kiss, it's not as bad as somethings being shown on TV

They didnt show the kiss because there was no need to show it. Showing the shadow added some style to it and got the job done.

I took this episode for what it was worth. It was Halloween themed and Smallville doesnt really do themed episodes and so it was nice. I also LOVED the narration by Chloe. This is something else that Smallville has never done and I like how it began and it ended with the daily planet and Chloe. It was a Lana episode, but it was more of a CHloe episode and that was a surprise I liked. The supes references were ten times better than the stupid unnecessary obvious ones they seem to like lately because they weren't so blatant and forced. 'I lkida like the cape" I dont like the mask it keeps slipping" lol these were great and pretty funny.

A complaint I have which is the same as last weeks is there was no reference to the Kents. Did they die?? At least mention them. AT LEAST. THats all I ask. I hate it when characters arent in episodes and we never hear where they are.
One more complaint is the lame ass "scientific" explaination for the vamps and Luthorcorps involvement. Of course, it wouldve been lamer to have actual vamps, but still.

Loved Carrie Fisher as Editor in Chief. She was great.

[KristinIsAwesome]

They probably didnt show it, because Kristin Kreuk doesnt like doing stuff like that (dressing skimpy, making out with girls, etc..) so they either didnt kiss and just used effects, or they had a double do it. I think KK had enough after "Facade" and "Spell".

[Kryptomaniac]

Immoral? OK, let's see: Vampires? Murder? Using "God" as a swear word (Lana did, over and over)? More murders? Yeah, immoral pretty well describes it IMO.

[KristinIsAwesome]

People always use God as a swear word. vampires?.. no one had a problem with witches last season. And murder?... are you kidding me?... Like Smallville is the only show with this so called "murder" in it.

[The Captain]

Originally posted by KristinIsAwesome
They probably didnt show it, because Kristin Kreuk doesnt like doing stuff like that (dressing skimpy, making out with girls, etc..) so they either didnt kiss and just used effects, or they had a double do it. I think KK had enough after "Facade" and "Spell".
I don't know about Kristin but I sure will never get enough of her kissing other girls

[dusk soldier]

Originally posted by lovelymissphoebe
[B]It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?

When was Smallville ever "clean and innocent?"

Wait I know what you're saying. Who cares that a new character is killed off each week. As long as their are no lame allusions to sex, the show is still wholesome right?:rolleyes:

[shy175223]

well, that was the first season and it did pretty good the first time around. But times have changed and so does the show with every season.

[SolShine7]

I was so disappointed, I turned off the TV. The show stunk. I didn't want to watch that junk. It was all over when Lana made the sorority. Vampires?? So lame.

I did like the first few episodes of this season. Minus Clark and Lana having sex. I would of liked to see them make a REAL commitment to each other. That would of been special. Waiting to have sex after marriage would of been outside the norm.

Smallville started off as more of a family oriented show. It still has redemptive values, just as long as the writers don't include more shows with witches and vampires.

I'm going to give Smallville another chance, we all have bad days.

[Quadrotriticale]

I agree with Sol on this one. The show started off as a family oriented show and what do we have in the opening scene, a girl going down on a guy in the hot tub.

[Liriel]

I like SV, but IMO, it started as a "teen" show and still is.

[johnny fogg]

Urgh, I am so mad!

Yeah, SV is directed towards young people.

Yeah, I like seeing Lana in leather(or rubber? What was that outfit?).

TOO BAD THIS EPISODE WAS AS BAD/WORSE AS THE LAST SEASON OF MUTANT X.

I couldn't care less about Lana kissing girls or Clana sex or anything like that. It might just be because those things pale in comparison to horrendously bad writing.

[Kris-El]

wow, lighten up! It was a fun episode, and in case you didnt notice, vampires and such wasnt the only thing going on, either.

[jaime,oburg]

I actually thought they were toning it down with the shadow of Lana and Buffy's vampire kiss. But if you think it is getting too much then you definetely don't want to see "Exposed" next week. Apparently Lois's only role so far this season is for some T&A.

[johnny fogg]

You didn't think the vampire thing was just a tad stupid?

Yeah, ok I like vampires. The tongue-cutting thing was gross but cool as hell. But I get the feelign this ep was supposed to be lighthearted and funny, but it wasn't interesting or funny and these were only two interesting scenes in the whole thing.

The only good things I can say is KK rocks as an actress no matter how bad they try and make her look, and the commercials were short. Actually, that's not good, because I would prefer watching that Wendy's commercial where the square sings about not being round than see my show get butchered by sweeps, thank you.:mad:

[ClarkCrusader]

This was a Halloween themed ep. It was supposed to be fun. Sure it wasn't great, but I wouldn't say it was immoral. And someone mentioned that SV started as a family oriented show and it isn't anymore. From what I understand, the target audience has always been "MEN AGED 18-25" or something like that. That target was probably actually captured with this ep and will be captured again with next weeks. Just lighten up guys!!! And if you do feel that SV has gone down the drain, then watch something else and join their forum. I can only imagine what people will say about the Christmas themed episode coming up in December!! :rotfl:

SMALLVILLE ROCKS :p

[Lord Rae]

horrific violence and death is ok as long people don't say any naughty words or have sex. :P

Season 1 saw countless deaths and murders....

So for those saying it started as a family show just stuff it. Morality is overrated.

[Slade]

I always love when people get all worked up when theres a bit of sexuality and profanity.

Everything is all good and fine when people die left and right in all manner and fashions, but when we start getting sexual we need a congressional inquisition.

[therip]

yeah what the hell is wrong with everyone?? is everybody amish or something? "oh my Lord she's showing her LEG!!" holy crap people, relax...look how messed up the world around you is, and you're complaining that a tv show is referencing sex...THEY'RE IN COLLEGE!! you expect them to have milk and cookies and play house? honestly now...

[superhippie2000]

i mean come on this stuff isnt that bad. i mean they arnt doing it all the time where it gets on peoples nerves its one episode. its not like 7th heaven and everwood and all those teeny bopper shows thatr some one is trying to get liad ever week or some 12 year old is pregnant by 10 different guys. i mean in smallville they are old enough to know what sex is and make jokes about it but the people who actually do act sluty and get drunk and stuff are the ones that tend to die or go to belle reeve so it is moral that they are actually getting punished for doing it. and with clark and lana doing it its not like they made it all slutty and stuff they made it so it was implied and didnt show them actually ontop of each other.

[chaszer]

Smallville is one of the most moral shows on TV. A story is not immoral because it depicts immoral behavior. In order for good (morality) to triumph, it is necessary to show evil and its consequences. In this episode, the pizza boy who thinks he's about to engage in an orgy is killed-the consequence of attempting to engage in what is commonly considered to be engaging in an immoral act. The main vampire is also slain. The heronie is saved because her love for the hero overcomes the evil she is tainted with and gives the hero a chance to cure her.

I think you are confusing whether the show is immoral with whether the show depicts things you do not want to see or depicts things that may not be suitable for viewing by all age groups. I can agree with you that I wouldn't want to explain the hot tub scene or the vampire lesbians to a seven year old, but I don't think most of whats on the WB should be viewed by 7 year olds (and that includes 7th Heaven). Parents have a responsibility to know what shows are appropriate for their children. But if you are upset because the show depicts things you do not want to see, that is not immorality, that is just your taste.

[johnny fogg]

The crapiness of this episode is insulted by the sex, because now critics looks like prudes and people decide they like it even though it's crap.

[superhippie2000]

all smallville sex and drunk episodes seem to be the lamest cause we do not watch the show for it we watch it for the superman stuff and the special effects. this episode besides the sluty sorority girls was decent. the best parts were the brainac/lex/clark stuff. the only parts opf the vampire stuff i did like was when the head vampire got killed but wished the killing was more violent like watching here burn a but more slowly and seeing the flesh melt off and then be gone.

[Mr.Kal-El]

Ok, when I saw the preview for this episode I thought it would be garbage, but it ended up being a really good, not great, episode. I loved how Chloe was used as narrator, I thought some of the vampire stuff was pretty funny and so was Clark's costume and his comments about it. And I hope somebody agrees with me here, but I couldn't get enough of the Fine/Lex scenes. They were great.

[johnny fogg]

MORE BRAINIAC! Not just two or so scenes! Squeeze every last drop of acting out of that stupid James Marsters before his episode requirements are up! You fools!!!:eek:

[The Captain]

Originally posted by Lord Rae
horrific violence and death is ok as long people don't say any naughty words or have sex. :P

Season 1 saw countless deaths and murders....

So for those saying it started as a family show just stuff it. Morality is overrated. HAHAHA You who you remind me of? Mrs. Broflovski from South Park Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. Where she says "graphic deplorable violence is okay as long as they don't say any naughty words" that sounds almost exactly what you said. The line was written for that movie so people would laugh at the hypocrisy of the statment. Now I'm wondering how can you possibly think people will take you seriously when you show such ignorance and hilarious hypocrisy

[Drew]

It was a Vampire episode, of course theres going to be blood and a few sexual refrences. Its still a clean show, they stray away from adult situations for the most part.
One thing I do like, is how the characters are allowed to say "ass" now. I don't care about swearing or anything, but in the past episodes when characters would say "I'm going to kick his butt" just sounded lame and unrealistic for their age.

[dusk soldier]

Originally posted by The Captain
HAHAHA You who you remind me of? Mrs. Broflovski from South Park Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. Where she says "graphic deplorable violence is okay as long as they don't say any naughty words" that sounds almost exactly what you said. The line was written for that movie so people would laugh at the hypocrisy of the statment. Now I'm wondering how can you possibly think people will take you seriously when you show such ignorance and hilarious hypocrisy
I think you're missing the point of his post. Most of the main characters have killed someone throughout the run of the series.

Lana vapourized that vampire girl, in other words someone died, and the characters are acting like it's not even a big deal. I could understand their reactions if they had read about it in a paper, but Lana was present when it happened.

The whole thread is ironic in that supposedly smallville is becoming immoral because we almost caught lesbian vampires (vampires being evil and immoral creatures) kissing on screen.

Why not complain about the fact that they killed that pizza boy. (murder) Didn't pay for the pizza. (theft) Threw Lana down the stairs. (assault) Broke into Lex's home (tresspassing), or took Clark back to their hideout, against his will?(abduction).

They broke so many laws in one hour it's not even funny, but the "immoral" practice was the lesbian kissing, that we didn't even get to see. right.

[Lord Rae]

Originally posted by The Captain
HAHAHA You who you remind me of? Mrs. Broflovski from South Park Bigger, Longer, and Uncut. Where she says "graphic deplorable violence is okay as long as they don't say any naughty words" that sounds almost exactly what you said. The line was written for that movie so people would laugh at the hypocrisy of the statment. Now I'm wondering how can you possibly think people will take you seriously when you show such ignorance and hilarious hypocrisy

hehe I was basically paraphrasing the quote... :P

I just had to expand on it cause there wasn't any sex in southpark... unless you count the uncle ****er song. :P

[Sydafex7]

Originally posted by Quadrotriticale
I agree with Sol on this one. The show started off as a family oriented show and what do we have in the opening scene, a girl going down on a guy in the hot tub.

Last I checked, Clark was 15 in the first season. IS he still 15? last I checked he was in college now. Either way is everyone forgetting Nicodemus?? Lana in her bra and panties? Ring a bell?? Or how about Chloe being burried alive in "Obscura". Chloe almost being cut in half by a chainsaw in "Crush" How about Clark seeing Lana naked from the back side and probably other girls completely naked with his X-ray vision in "X-ray"? Also, Lex being tasered, kidnapped, strung upside down and pistol whipped.

The above are all things that I don't consider to be "family" oriented and they all happened while the kids were 15!! Clark couldve gotten A LOT of play from Lana in "Nicodemus" if he wanted to.

It's true that Smallville has had Family oriented and themed episodes, but for the most part, Smallville has never been a "family" show IMO.


Originally posted by dusk soldier
I think you're missing the point of his post. Most of the main characters have killed someone throughout the run of the series.

Lana vapourized that vampire girl, in other words someone died, and the characters are acting like it's not even a big deal. I could understand their reactions if they had read about it in a paper, but Lana was present when it happened.

The whole thread is ironic in that supposedly smallville is becoming immoral because we almost caught lesbian vampires (vampires being evil and immoral creatures) kissing on screen.

Why not complain about the fact that they killed that pizza boy. (murder) Didn't pay for the pizza. (theft) Threw Lana down the stairs. (assault) Broke into Lex's home (tresspassing), or took Clark back to their hideout, against his will?(abduction).

They broke so many laws in one hour it's not even funny, but the "immoral" practice was the lesbian kissing, that we didn't even get to see. right.

right on. Sex is something that everyone HAS TO DO in order for mankind to survive and live on. It's natural. Yet, for some reason, no one cares that Chloe killed a dood in 'Hidden". Chloe doesnt even care! Sure he was threat but either way. In X-ray Clark, at age 15 no less, was breaking and entering. BREAKING AND ENTERING at age 15. :confused:


Originally posted by Drew
It was a Vampire episode, of course theres going to be blood and a few sexual refrences. Its still a clean show, they stray away from adult situations for the most part.
One thing I do like, is how the characters are allowed to say "ass" now. I don't care about swearing or anything, but in the past episodes when characters would say "I'm going to kick his butt" just sounded lame and unrealistic for their age.

Clark has said Ass in previous seasons. I believe he said it in "Extinct" when Lana did that bad-ass round kick and Van went through the glass.


Originally posted by chaszer
Smallville is one of the most moral shows on TV. A story is not immoral because it depicts immoral behavior. In order for good (morality) to triumph, it is necessary to show evil and its consequences. In this episode, the pizza boy who thinks he's about to engage in an orgy is killed-the consequence of attempting to engage in what is commonly considered to be engaging in an immoral act. The main vampire is also slain. The heronie is saved because her love for the hero overcomes the evil she is tainted with and gives the hero a chance to cure her.

I think you are confusing whether the show is immoral with whether the show depicts things you do not want to see or depicts things that may not be suitable for viewing by all age groups. I can agree with you that I wouldn't want to explain the hot tub scene or the vampire lesbians to a seven year old, but I don't think most of whats on the WB should be viewed by 7 year olds (and that includes 7th Heaven). Parents have a responsibility to know what shows are appropriate for their children. But if you are upset because the show depicts things you do not want to see, that is not immorality, that is just your taste.

nailed it.

[Drew]

They did have a tv 14 rating for a reason (V-chip anyone?)

[zanos]

Originally posted by Sydafex7
Last I checked, Clark was 15 in the first season. IS he still 15? last I checked he was in college now. Either way is everyone forgetting Nicodemus?? Lana in her bra and panties? Ring a bell?? Or how about Chloe being burried alive in "Obscura". Chloe almost being cut in half by a chainsaw in "Crush" How about Clark seeing Lana naked from the back side and probably other girls completely naked with his X-ray vision in "X-ray"? Also, Lex being tasered, kidnapped, strung upside down and pistol whipped.

The above are all things that I don't consider to be "family" oriented and they all happened while the kids were 15!! Clark couldve gotten A LOT of play from Lana in "Nicodemus" if he wanted to.

It's true that Smallville has had Family oriented and themed episodes, but for the most part, Smallville has never been a "family" show IMO.



right on. Sex is something that everyone HAS TO DO in order for mankind to survive and live on. It's natural. Yet, for some reason, no one cares that Chloe killed a dood in 'Hidden". Chloe doesnt even care! Sure he was threat but either way. In X-ray Clark, at age 15 no less, was breaking and entering. BREAKING AND ENTERING at age 15. :confused:


Chloe got over it on the drive home.

[gloria]

Originally posted by superhippie2000
when the head vampire got killed but wished the killing was more violent like watching here burn a but more slowly and seeing the flesh melt off and then be gone.

yea that bit was funny :rotfl: i mean thats all it took to kill her? :lol:

[Lambshank]

Originally posted by therip
yeah what the hell is wrong with everyone?? is everybody amish or something? "oh my Lord she's showing her LEG!!" holy crap people, relax...look how messed up the world around you is, and you're complaining that a tv show is referencing sex...THEY'RE IN COLLEGE!! you expect them to have milk and cookies and play house? honestly now...

Lmfao hahaahahahah, genius post.

[shirkie]

Why can't liberals ever have an intelligent discussion without simply insulting and harassing people opposing them?

"Gee, I can't think of a coherent argument against traditional morality, so I'll simply call them 'puritans' and 'amish' and 'boring' and 'out-of-touch' and 'stupid' while asking 'what the hell is wrong with you?' and laughing hysterically! YAY!"

NEWS FLASH: Being "progressive" does NOT automatically make you smarter than the rest of us.

Aside from that, I'm very proud of KK for not wanting to show certain things onscreen. That takes guts not to succumb to the pressure Hollywood can put on young actresses. Very awesome.
shirkie

[BeepBeep]

Originally posted by shirkie
Why can't liberals ever have an intelligent discussion without simply insulting and harassing people opposing them?

Nice generalization. :rolleyes:

[crisban]

BAH! Lovelymissphoebe, nevermind these flames about people shutting down ur ideas, I'M ALL FOR A MORAL SMALLVILLE!

I mean, hell, hes superman! Truth, justice, and the american way. I think its reasonable to say that that implies morals! the whole idea of why he's a good guy is because he still is a good guy even if he doesnt have powers. They even said that what makes clark kent great is that he does the right thing even when he doesnt want to. THAT makes the hero. thats why im so proud of the show and am proud to watch the show. superman is a pop icon that can instil the values and ethics of the "old days" when we werent all materialistic and money driven (or sex driven :mad: ). superman's my favorite hero, but not because he's got cool powers or costume, its because living in an evil ridden metropolis he still remains the good natured mama's boy that fights for all thats good and inspires those around him.

If any show on primetime should (and can :cool: ) maintain morals and good standing, its Smallville.

[gloria]

erm..ok..i have know idea what you guys are talking about...maybe cause am too stupid :p

well i understand this...

Aside from that, I'm very proud of KK for not wanting to show certain things onscreen. That takes guts not to succumb to the pressure Hollywood can put on young actresses. Very awesome.

i argee,they didnt have to show the actual kiss,i mean by looking at the shadow you know what happened you dont need it shoved in you face...jeez if you want to see 2 girls kissing watch the L word or something ¬_¬

am GLAD they didnt show it i think it woud have degraded the show..is that the word?..i dunno you know what i mean...its not what smallville is about

EDIT:ummm...morals?.....i think the tptb should do what they have to do as long as it isnt over the top and forced.like the kiss for example they didnt have to exchange blood that way (mouth to mouth) but we only know that happened by looking at the shadow,so even if people dont like looking at two girls kissing it wasnt as obivous if you get what am trying saying....

am no good at this debate stuff....i just want to watch smallville...dont care if it has morals or not as long as it takes the show where its supposed to go :p

[SmallTownSuperHero]

Shirkie = my hero.

Logic and intelligible grammar, all mixed up into one.

[luthorcorp]

yes i agree the show is hitting to unbelievable realms now and not kicking this cheesey surrounding it sometimes has this was another spell and it stunk... and yes yet another memory loss well.....what a surprise...
I'm really getting sick of Lana now and don't see a place in this show now for her..... maybe the first 2 seasons she was needed but its getting in the way of what the show is really about now...
she has over stayed her welcome and its time to go
the only thing i really liked about thirst was a rather small appearance by princess Leia and the lex and brainy scenes
but where was the ship morph????

[Somebody Stop Me]

Lana is still in Superman's life even when he gets to Metropolis. Tptb should now be using her like they use John Glover....occasionally. She doesn't and shouldn't be used every episode like tptb are using her.

Last weeks episode was mainly centered around her again and this shouldn't be the case. Tptb are using her again in immoral type of ways and it needs to stop.

[DARKRAGE]

Originally posted by lovelymissphoebe
It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?

The episode was dreadful... By the end I was dying with laughter because it was so stupid and predictable "What? Lana lost her memory? What a surprise..........":rolleyes:

If your tired of it then have a nice rest and come back for next weeks show, don't let 1 episode spoil your season;)

[luthorcorp]

yes also splinter and solitude look promising...

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by lovelymissphoebe
It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?

I understand this point of view, but I must say, I never thought of Smallville as being clean and innocent. As early as ep 5 in Season One, we have a girl in the shower waiting for a guy to come by for a date. Remember that -- the guy who froze everyone? I think Smallville has always pushed this envelope.

In fact, to me, that was one of the more extreme scenes of the entire series, in terms of "values." So I guess I'm not really seeing that much of a change. Maybe there's more of it than there used to be.

[watcher4]

For better or worse, the show is going to be "less innocent and clean". That is what people want to see! After all, it IS all about ratings. Just hope that it is done within the framework of the storyline(s) for the episode, Just hope that it is not done merely for a "shock factor".

For ex., I was upset that Jonathan and Martha were not in Season 4 as much. So I did not watch many of the episodes and I have decided that I will not purchase the Season 4 DVDs. In my opinion, these two characters add balance to the series. It is a personal preference.

I'm watching!:rotfl:

[norman619]

They aren't kids anymore. LOL They are facing life's harsh realities. Immoral? Based on yours maybe but not based mine. :-) You are not the only person in this country and well deal with it. If you don't like the facets of life they are choosing to show us then simply change the channel. But yeah this episode was pretty bad. It had bad B movie written on every scene. LOL


Originally posted by lovelymissphoebe
It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?

The episode was dreadful... By the end I was dying with laughter because it was so stupid and predictable "What? Lana lost her memory? What a surprise..........":rolleyes:

[Clareo]

Just because they're "not kids anymore" and faced with what some might call major and tough decisions doesn't mean that they always have to take the gritty or dark path. There seems to be this assumption that just because you get to college, you suddenly become wrapped up in a dark, crazy world of sex . . . it reminds me of something discussed in a psych class long ago - that certain things are considered issues or problems depending on the context. We noted that alcoholism is considered a mental illness - substance abuse - but society doesn't apply that rule to college students, almost making it a "healthy" rite of passage. WTF is with that? I've never liked the idea of situational morality, so it's hard for me to wrap my brain around Clark, Lana, and the rest of the gang suddenly engaging in behavior that outside folk would consider immoral, but we're supposed to go with it because "they're in college now!"

I don't think that the "lesbian kissing" bit was that horrible, all-in-all, though - it fit with what Lana's character was going through, even though I think it was an unabashed drive for ratings. Because, you know, every show has to have lesbian action or the 18-25 year old men will tune out . . . :rolleyes:

And as far as generalizations about liberals go . . . well, where's the REAL argument against traditional morality? Seriously, I practically wrote a dissertation on another thread (it got lost in some other stuff) about absolute and relative morality and how that all ties into sex on the show. Personally, the decisions that characters have made have disappointed me, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop watching the show. I just wish that everyone would at least admit to himself or herself that mistakes have been made, instead of going on as though he or she's living in some dark reflection of the world, and that it's ok to blend into it, without standing apart from the rest. As I've also pointed out before, if Clark isn't the one trying to do what's right, not being selfish, and coming clean about his mistakes, then who is? He's just another guy who does good things. The farmboy image is still there, but more and more I keep thinking "Batman," because he tended to slink through the shadows of Gotham, rather than the way Superman always rose above the problems in Metropolis. Heh.

And I have no idea what the original topic was anymore . . . :o

[DGreen]

why is it that we can't go one frickin weak without having a debate about how immoral smallville is? if it's that bad, why do u guys even watch it? cause lets face it, season 4 was worse and you guys stuck through that. i'm not trying to sound mean or whatever, it's just that i don't understand how you can enjoy a show that you complain about so much. same goes for the ppl that nit pick about every little detail, why do you even watch it if all you do is try and find something wrong? personally if a show bothered me as much as smallville seems to bother you, i would never watch it. i certainly wouldn't watch it just to complain about it. i just can't figure out how you guys enjoy the show. i like to sit back and watch and take it for what it is....fictional entertainment. emphasis on the fictional...it's not real...lighten up.

i have something else to say. for those of you whose reasoning behind clark being immoral due to sex or what ever else, think about this. he isn't superman. when we see superman in the comics or in the movies, he's perfect....he's the physical embodiment of all thats good in the world, but that doesn't mean it was always true. erveryone makes mistakes, to think other wise is lunacy. also those of you who are religious who are saying his actions are immoral and are tarnishing the character, guess what....no ones perfect. if you're trying to make superman into a christ-like figure, then you're commiting a sin yourself. i don't have a problem with the idea that superman is perfect, but the thought that he's never once in his entire life done anything of questionable morality is ridiculous, cause as i said...theres only ever been one perfect person in this world. and yes i know we're talking about a fictitious character here, but since everyone else seems to be straddling the line between reality and t.v. in their arguments, i figured i would too. so you see, you guys are trying to turn superman into a christ-like figure and thats not right.

[Addictedtosmllvill]

I have one word for most of the posters on this thread: desensitized.

[Somebody Stop Me]

Originally posted by Addictedtosmllvill
I have one word for most of the posters on this thread: desensitized.

A good straight to the point comment. All I have to say is..........Word!

[No-El]

Originally posted by Addictedtosmllvill
I have one word for most of the posters on this thread: desensitized.


The problem can be solved thus since certain viewer's "delicate sensibilites" have been rattled by the past two episodes.

Seeing that Smallville's characters---which drive the show---are no longer in High School and now in College, these episodes from now on till the "Series Finale" should carry a familiiar and special detailed network disclaimer:

"Due to the graphic nature of tonight's program, certain subject matter, content, language, and some scenes may not be suited to All viewers. Viewer discretion IS highly advised."

While we are at Al/Miles, let's go for an R if not a least an MA (Mature) rating for Smallville henceforth!!!:mad:

[Watching Smallville]

Originally posted by Addictedtosmllvill
I have one word for most of the posters on this thread: desensitized.

With all due respect, I don't see how Smallville has "suddenly" become "immoral." Right from the start, we've seen people being done away with in the most horrific ways. I'm curious as to why this didn't bother people all along. I'm not saying it should have. I'm just wondering why it didn't if it bothers people now.

Whenever I tuned into Smallville, I expected to see some graphic thing happen, but that was part of the style of the show. And we've had had shower scenes, and Alicia in Clark's bedroom, and finding panties in the barn, one of the kinetic people fooling around w/ Lex's maid just to get information on the mansion--all before season four.

So, I'm confused. I don't perceive a sudden change of standards. Is it that the main characters are now involved in these things?

P.S. What are the little symbols in front of the thread titles -- the thumbs up, thumbs down, grin, etc.?

[KryptoniteLacedPie]

I liked it. That's most likely just because I've always liked the whole vampire thing, not just on Smallville. The only part that bothered me is that it's always Lana: Lana-Fu, Witchy Lana, and now, Vampire Lana? That just pisses me off.

Anyway, there have been worse episodes. I've rather liked S5 so far, so I guess I'm just biased. Or Smallville obsessed :rolleyes:

[Clareo]

I hope that the religious bit and Christ-like bit were not directed at me, especially since I didn't bring either up. But since you did, yeah, I definitely DO consider Superman to be Messianic. Loads of heroic figures throughout history have been cast in a "Christ-like mold," and that's just the way it is, end of story. Historical and literary points of fact. Whether or not this particular instance was intentional, *shrug,* but you really can't deny the comparison between Superman and a Messiah-like figure. You'd have to ask AlMiles, I guess, but in "Hidden," when Clark was shot and hmm - look at the way they had him stretched out on the ground. That looks like a familiar pose! Also, if Clark dying, being wrapped up in a sheet, and then having his family come back to discover that - omg! his body is missing, and then OMG! again, he's appeared to us when we thought he was dead! - isn't convincing support for a Messiah-theory, then I don't know what is. It's not a religious belief that I'm throwing out there, it's analysis and contextualization of plot points and visual allusions. Even in English classes taught by unreligious, uber-secular, radically liberal professors, we still study the Bible and its influence on literature and modern works. WAY off-topic, though.

[Sydafex7]

Originally posted by Somebody Stop Me
Lana is still in Superman's life even when he gets to Metropolis. Tptb should now be using her like they use John Glover....occasionally. She doesn't and shouldn't be used every episode like tptb are using her.

Last weeks episode was mainly centered around her again and this shouldn't be the case. Tptb are using her again in immoral type of ways and it needs to stop.

Again, someone who compares the show to the comics, movies, etc.

I will admit, I do it sometimes also, but I have taught myself to stop doing this because Smallville is a RETELLING of the Superman mythology. It's different. Lana is still in Clark's life in the other tellings, but Smallville is different and always has been since the pilot.

[Somebody Stop Me]

I'm not comparing. I just get tired of her boring sub-story that tptb come up with all the time.

[Sydafex7]

You said "Lana is still in CLark's life when he gets to Metropolis"

How do you know this; because she is in his life when he's Superman in the comics?

Anyways, it doesn't matter. I understand what you're saying. But now, she has a good story this season. She is Clark's g/f and she will also have some interesting things with Lex so just its all good.

I was just making a point that just because soemthing happens to her in the comics, doesnt mean it should also happen on Smallville. They are different mythologies.

[superman_fan_85]

Hi Everyone!

I am a brand-new-newbie today!! So first off just a quick hi to all you crazy smallville fans!!

I am a big fan of k-site and visit it a lot, i sometimes also browse the forum too, but i have never got involved, but today i wanted to say something. I have read what people have to say about the episodes (well, season 5 so far..) and most people have got bad things to say, or some criticism! Now i wanted to throw my opinion in because.....am i the only smallville fan who enjoys all the episodes??

I have read what people have said, some have said they want to be entertained, and some said the writing is terrible, and some say vampires (referring to ep 5) are just way too silly, and ofcouse everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i have loved every episode since season 1, and in my opinion they have got better, now surely i am not the only one, come on people speak out. Of course like every show, you have episodes that are not as good as others, but there has not been one episode that i have not enjoyed, there has not been one episode that has made me want to turn it off, or make me air my criticism on the k-site forum, so if there are people out there who agree with me, true superman fans, please speak now, or forever hold your peace (lol)

**sorry about the forever hold your peace bit - just seemed like the way to end that sentance lol**

[Brainiac_13]

Originally posted by Premature Combustion
I'm so tired of listening to people complaining about the morality of superman.

Every generation (and culture for that matter) has reinvented superman and his mythos to better suit the time in which they live. Superman stands for truth, justice, and the American Way. Today's America is not the same place that it was in 1938 or any any other time. And you know what? I don't want it to be.

LONG LIVE EVOLUTION!

Evolution?

If the present American culture is the result of evolution from it's mid-20th-century culture, the future should involve us all dancing naked around bonfires, raping children and worshipping Baal.

[NotTodayPete]

Originally posted by Brainiac_13
Evolution?

If the present American culture is the result of evolution from it's mid-20th-century culture, the future should involve us all dancing naked around bonfires, raping children and worshipping Baal.

I see you've heard of the burning man festival and mardis gras

[gloria]

the what and the who now? :confused:

[Sydafex7]

Originally posted by superman_fan_85
Hi Everyone!

I am a brand-new-newbie today!! So first off just a quick hi to all you crazy smallville fans!!

I am a big fan of k-site and visit it a lot, i sometimes also browse the forum too, but i have never got involved, but today i wanted to say something. I have read what people have to say about the episodes (well, season 5 so far..) and most people have got bad things to say, or some criticism! Now i wanted to throw my opinion in because.....am i the only smallville fan who enjoys all the episodes??

I have read what people have said, some have said they want to be entertained, and some said the writing is terrible, and some say vampires (referring to ep 5) are just way too silly, and ofcouse everyone is entitled to their opinion, but i have loved every episode since season 1, and in my opinion they have got better, now surely i am not the only one, come on people speak out. Of course like every show, you have episodes that are not as good as others, but there has not been one episode that i have not enjoyed, there has not been one episode that has made me want to turn it off, or make me air my criticism on the k-site forum, so if there are people out there who agree with me, true superman fans, please speak now, or forever hold your peace (lol)

**sorry about the forever hold your peace bit - just seemed like the way to end that sentance lol**

I will admit, the only episode I truly hate and CANNOT stand is "Magnetic" from season 3. But, there are other episodes that even though they are not the greatest, there is something in them that is worth watching, and therefore I am able to make it through them. "Magnetic" however, had NOTHING in it that was redeeming and thats why I dont watch that episode.

I to have enjoyed every episode of Smallville I think since "Magnetic" up to "Unsafe" which I didnt care for too much. After "Unsafe" though, I have enjoyed every episode since then, including "Thirst" which I like because (A) Im a halloween fan who loves cheesy, not-funny horror movies and I think Thirst had that quality and feel to it. I also liked the narration by Chloe which SMallville has never done and that was different. So you arent the only one, I have truly enjoyed jus about every episode except Magnetic and didnt care too much for Unsafe. But, all the others I liked, some a lot more than others. For Example, Facade and Devoted werent the greatest to me, but, there are some things about them I like. Same goes for other episodes.

[Addictedtosmllvill]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by superman_fan_85


.....[B] am i the only smallville fan who enjoys all the episodes??

I never said I didn't like it ;) It's just not up to par with the awesome-ness of Smallville. It was like 85 million times better than I thought it would be (and I still thought most of it was stupid and gross). But thats off topic. :)

[umm]

I don´t know why people complain?
All in all, all seasons of Smallville have been good, containing a major part of really mind blowing great episode!
Sure there have been a few episodes here and there that shouldn´t have been made like: ´Spell´ and ´Thirst´ (mostly because the whole witchcraft, vampires and supernatural genré really doesn´t mix and match all that well with the sci-fi genré of Smallville)!
Then there was the whole ´Isobel´ fiasko, the premature introduction of Lois, the constant forcing of Clana, but other than that Smallville has been really good! But, I mean we can´t have it all!
For every ten really good episodes, there will be a few not so great, or for every couple of great seasons there will be a half season worth of the dumbest storyline ever, like for example Isobel!
But one can only take it as it comes and not get too wind up about it!

[norman619]

Ummm... blood thirsty vamps are not supposed to be all moral. And where was the sex? I saw none. Lana was crazed in her vampness and Cloe and Clark didn't do anything "immoral." So I fail to see the point to the immorality arguments. We are talking about a bunch of vamps who don't give a damn and your run of the mill college party. College is usually a kid's first taste of real freedom. They usually try/do things mom and dad would not approve of. Depending on how much they were sheltered some take it to the extreme others experiment and move on. Yet others don't feel the desire to taste that forbidden fruit and happily move about their day. We all know this. Clark has to be challenged/tempted to forge the kind of personality that becomes our "messiah." I find it funny that he is basicly a christ figure. This may be why so many people have a problem with seeing the "dark" aspects of life around him.


Originally posted by Clareo
Just because they're "not kids anymore" and faced with what some might call major and tough decisions doesn't mean that they always have to take the gritty or dark path. There seems to be this assumption that just because you get to college, you suddenly become wrapped up in a dark, crazy world of sex . . . it reminds me of something discussed in a psych class long ago - that certain things are considered issues or problems depending on the context. We noted that alcoholism is considered a mental illness - substance abuse - but society doesn't apply that rule to college students, almost making it a "healthy" rite of passage. WTF is with that? I've never liked the idea of situational morality, so it's hard for me to wrap my brain around Clark, Lana, and the rest of the gang suddenly engaging in behavior that outside folk would consider immoral, but we're supposed to go with it because "they're in college now!"

I don't think that the "lesbian kissing" bit was that horrible, all-in-all, though - it fit with what Lana's character was going through, even though I think it was an unabashed drive for ratings. Because, you know, every show has to have lesbian action or the 18-25 year old men will tune out . . . :rolleyes:

And as far as generalizations about liberals go . . . well, where's the REAL argument against traditional morality? Seriously, I practically wrote a dissertation on another thread (it got lost in some other stuff) about absolute and relative morality and how that all ties into sex on the show. Personally, the decisions that characters have made have disappointed me, but that doesn't mean that I'm going to stop watching the show. I just wish that everyone would at least admit to himself or herself that mistakes have been made, instead of going on as though he or she's living in some dark reflection of the world, and that it's ok to blend into it, without standing apart from the rest. As I've also pointed out before, if Clark isn't the one trying to do what's right, not being selfish, and coming clean about his mistakes, then who is? He's just another guy who does good things. The farmboy image is still there, but more and more I keep thinking "Batman," because he tended to slink through the shadows of Gotham, rather than the way Superman always rose above the problems in Metropolis. Heh.

And I have no idea what the original topic was anymore . . . :o

[Clareo]

College is usually a kid's first taste of real freedom. They usually try/do things mom and dad would not approve of. Depending on how much they were sheltered some take it to the extreme others experiment and move on.

Not that there was any way for you to know this, but I thought I'd throw it out there and note that I'm a college student at a school that has a reputation (well, I guess they all do) for big, crazy parties. So yeah, I get it. I'm not trying to be rude, but I don't want you to think I'm forty or something. ;)


Clark has to be challenged/tempted to forge the kind of personality that becomes our "messiah."

I totally agree. But he's made bad decisions that really don't match up to the level of a Messiah-figure, or even what's classically considered heroic. Abusing Red K in seasons past and selfishly lying to Lana weren't/aren't good decisions. Temptation is all well and good, and wholly true to the life and nature of a Messianic character. The difference is, the Messianic character or the hero makes deep personal sacrifices for others - sure, Clark has saved a LOT of people's lives. But when it came down to Lana, he couldn't bear to be honest with her, preferring to pretend as though his mortality would somehow negate all of the complications and dangers that come with being himself. Perhaps this discussions belongs in another thread, though? :\


I find it funny that he is basicly a christ figure. This may be why so many people have a problem with seeing the "dark" aspects of life around him.

I'm not really sure what you mean, here. I pointed out earlier in this thread (previous page, I think?) that Superman is most definitely a Christ-figure, and that AlMiles are most likely trying to get us to see the Clark Kent of the SV-universe as one, too. But can you explain what you meant? :)

[MyOwnSuperhero]

Despite my feelings on the issue, let's see if I can inject some reason into this debate.

The question isn't 'what is Smallville rated'. The question isn't 'how immoral Smallville has become'. It's not 'why SV should include more mature plotlines'. It isn't even 'is the sex and skin in SV wrong?'

The real issue at hand is 'does this hurt the show?' Does it make for better storylines? Does it attract viewers or drive them away? If it improves storylines but hurts ratings, is the trade off worthwhile?

If you insist on arguing the morality of innuendo or short skirts, you'll just argue. This same argument came up last season when we kicked of S4 with a whole slew of shower scenes and an entire episode dedicated to sex. It always, everytime, degenerated into a back and forth of comments like this:

"OMG, that was so hot!"

"What has SV come to? What am I watching a porno?"

"Dude, this isn't even close to porn! If you don't like it, don't watch!"

"Yeah, and Lois is hot"

"Blech, why do tptb insist on.. blah, blah, blah...

It usually turned into a flame fest, with one side calling the other side names, belittling thier moral views and beleifs. I got flamed myself.

[Clareo]

Well Lois is hot.

Just kidding. I mean, she is, but I'm a straight chick, so . . . yeah, ok, moving on, ha ha.

I really don't think I was arguing the morality of the show (I'm assuming that your post was directed at least in part at me? I could be wrong). I'm more or less arguing that: the path Clark is on at the moment is going to have to take a heck of a 180 to get on the fast track to "Superman;" and that (the bulk of what I'm saying here) AlMiles are trying to get us to see Clark as Messianic, but his actions are not those of a Messianic figure. Messianic figures (and heroic figures, generally speaking) ultimately ALL (maybe there's one exception . . . I haven't come across it yet) make one or more huge sacrifices to uphold a set of ideals or to protect someone or the greater good. That sacrifice very nearly always involves having to give up something that that hero/Messianic-figure loves in order to accomplish an end goal. It's fairly obvious that Clark doesn't want to do what's right (or doesn't know that it's right) and tell Lana the truth (I don't think you can ever justify the lie) because . . . he's afraid that she'll leave him. Clana fans can argue over this, but there's plenty of evidence to show that that's the reason for keeping the secret. And that's a selfish thing, indeed. *shrug again* I'm just not buying the this-boy-will-one-day-be-a-self-sacrificing-paragon-of- . . . uh, sacrifice . . . -and is Messianic" when it's clear that he's not even close. As some have pointed out, he's regressed.

I keep thinking that this thread is in the wrong place, but until someone says otherwise, I suppose I'll just keep writing in this one?

[Somebody Stop Me]

"Just Tired of it!" could mean allot of things. So write on girl.

[Clareo]

Lol. Will do. *salutes, clicks heels* ;)

[Smelly]

Boy, long thread to read, but I read it all.

Everybody has diffeernt ideas of morality. From the Amish to Larry Flint to George Bush.

For me on a scale from 1-10 w/ 1 being moral and 10 being immoral. Smallville would be a 1 to me. Personally, I would like to see it spiced up more.

[Superdan13]

well 1? Come on it's surely about 3

[Sydafex7]

I think Clark will give up Lana in order to do the right thing, but not yet. HE won't tell her the truth until he leaves Smallville.

Remember how Clark gave up Football because he realized it was unfair for him to play? Well he made a sacrifice there.

I think seeing regression is a good thing. If All we saw was Clark movinf forward until he became Supes it would be boring. Personally, I love to see him struggle because it makes watching his journey more interesting. Also, when he finally does because the complete hero we know him as, it will be more of an accomplishment because we'll look back and say "wow, Clark struggled a lot, but he finally made it." I think he will seem more like a true hero when it does happen and it will also be greater Triumph when it happens.

We all know where Clark's future brings him. We all know whatb his destiny is because we've seen it. If the show just had Clark gradually get there it would be boring. TPTB have to have him struggle, and do the wrong things and make mistakes because it makes it more interesting to watch and it also makes it more dramatic and less predictable. Sort of like how they portray Lois as HATING journalism and also not really being attracted to clark all that much. Its Ironic becausewe know her futureand it makes it less predictable

[Superdan13]

Clark's a fag he shouldn't've given up on football

[Clareo]

Clark's a fag he shouldn't've given up on football

WTF? Lol. :confused: :lol:

On a more serious note, I think that you can struggle with decisions, and still wind up making the right one. Focusing on the angst and consequences of doing so would definitely be exciting, IMHO. I also think that there's a big difference between making smaller mistakes along the way to being a hero and making a huge mistake that impacts/risks the life of someone he cares about. I don't know. I seriously hope that, at the very least, it's addressed by TPTB that he did make a big error with Lana. *thoughtful* It reminds me of a debate I had with other English nerds over whether or not you could consider Beowulf heroic - he did slaughter Grendel; he gracefully handled deliberate provokation by other men; but in the end, he was overwhelmed by the gold in the dragon's cave. *shrug* So I will admit that there is a difference between Messianic and heroic, but if AlMiles want to portray Clark as Messianic (as in "Hidden"), they had best get him on the right track. I think the crux of my problem with all of this is that there's a huge contradiction in how we're intended to see Clark - Messianic, but also an angst-ridden teenager making tough decisions. I'd rather they make it clear and stop it with the fallacious allusions and Messianic imagery . . . I guess I'm just nitpicking? The contradiction between what we're "supposed" to see and what we're actually saying is irritating.

But I still like the show, really. ;)

[Watching Smallville]

It's an interesting contradiction -- the angsty teen and the superhero. One line that impressed me in Arrival was when one of the Kryptonians said "Their way is to lie," or something like that. It made me wonder, is the character of a Kryptonian essentially different from that of a human? Is Clark's struggle to be human a struggle against his true nature? Is accepting his Kryptonian heritage what brings him to the selfless person he becomes, or is it the human influence that gives him heart, or is it a combination of the two that makes him the superhero?

When we see Kal-El, we see a seemlingly heartless, driven indivdual (Crusade Kal-El, not red K Kal-El). It would be interesting to see what the Kryptonian nature is, and if there are good aspects of it that Clark needs to embrace.

[Bumperjeep]

its better dirty than it is clean. For example when there was no plot or history with the characters, and the epsiode relied completely on the FOTW to keep the episode going like in S1, was embarassing to S5. Without FOTW's in the beginning of S1, Smallvile would have been canceled because the whole first season sucked compared to 5 because the character's revolved around the fotw and they had no past history

[Lord_Balthaazar]

Immoral? Thats hilarious, I thought it sucked, literally, but not because it was immoral. Uusually vampires are amazing, aweing, thrilling, this wasnt, this was cheap. I didnt like it because it felt fake, the stupid sorority girls couldnt act worth a damn.

[Somebody Stop Me]

But they sure did look good though. Especially the one who answered the door.

[norman619]

Originally posted by Clareo


I'm not really sure what you mean, here. I pointed out earlier in this thread (previous page, I think?) that Superman is most definitely a Christ-figure, and that AlMiles are most likely trying to get us to see the Clark Kent of the SV-universe as one, too. But can you explain what you meant? :)

Just pointing it out. I didn't see your post where you made this point as well. I just find the whole thing funny. Anything else I say on this subject will turn this into a religious debate so I will leave it at that. :-)

[Clareo]

Ah.

And to the person who said the sorority girls couldn't act . . . I've met the airheaded sorority types (not that all are that way, but certain sororities have reputations for being somewhat . . . err, vapid), and those actresses nailed the idiocy hands-down. Heh. Unless we're talking about their ability to pretend to be crazy vampires, too. Then they sucked (awful, cliched pun - sorry). ;)

[rundstedt2001]

Originally posted by neo_nate
If you don't like it and you are getting tired of the "predictability" of it, just change the channel

Shut up! I think its a valid point!

[LexLuv180]

Originally posted by lovelymissphoebe
It's depressing. The show is getting very immoral - What ever happened to clean and innocent Smallville?


Innocent and clean? I never saw the show like that. From day one we get dozens of people killed in a meteor shower, people with abilities that end up killing people, themselves, or going insane, over 10 locked up in a horrible mental asylum, others sent to prison, and a new person dying almost every episode. Oh, and there's the background abuse with Lex/Lionel, his mother killing his brother, father hating son and trying to corrupt him, Clark being socially isolated, lying, deceit, rogue scientific experiments, etc, etc, etc.