Kryptonian symbols

[shirkie]

OK, everyone. I was WAY excited when I saw all of the letters floating around Clark in the Fortress of Solitude. I raced up to my room after the ep ended to play back those scenes...

The letters were nothing more than THE ALPHABET! Gahhhhhh! What a cruel disappointment.

However, did anyone else notice the tattoo on Aethyr's back is made up of what appear to be two backwards Z's surrounding some other symbol in the center? Yes, it's supposed to be similar to Lana's old tattoo (well, now-disappeared tattoo), but it's also made of two Z's... Gal really DOES like Zod.

Anyone manage to get any decent screencaps of the full caves table thingy with all the symbols? Maybe the symbols-- if we could get a full shot of them-- actually spell out words in the columns radiating out from the center elements holder. Til now, we have only examined the shots in the Smallville Magazine #10 article, and that's just the very center (nonsense without the full picture).
shirkie

[Lois Sullivan]

Yeah, Shirkie, the symbols on the cave table, they're nothing. Just a bunch of random letters peiced together to make the table look all fancy. Their are a few shots in Spell, Crusade, Sacred and i believe Commencment where you could probably get a good screencap of the whole table. i them together from different shots from all of those episodes, and as far as I could tell it's just some letters peiced together. Most of the columns just repeat the same letters as well.

[gtjsasso-el]

well didn't it say that they were followers of Zod? Maybe the tattoos are the Zod gang insignia

[shirkie]

Lois Sullivan, are you SURE the symbols on the table are meaningless? If you try to read them in circles around the center, they're nothing, but what if you read them as columns radiating outwards from (or inwards towards) the center slot? I demand screenshots from someone. :)

As for the tattoo... I would like to know what the symbol in the middle of the two backwards kryptonian Z's is. Anyone else catch all the giant Z's in Lionel's cell during the preview shown at the end of "Arrival"? Spectacular!
shirkie

[Brainiac_13]

This isn't exactly Klingon and the writers aren't exactly a committee of Tolkiens. The likelihood that this language is developed beyond the superficial is slim. At most, we MAY, and by we I mean people in dire need of love lives, be able to piece together the secret code a la 'Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine' but given that they seem to be attempting to establish Kryptonian as a heiroglyphic system (in order to be able to just randomly invent a new symbol to mean whatever the plot requires), that table does not quite resemble a rosetta stone.

Geez, I went a long way to say that.

[Alan]

arent all the symbols shown part of the krytonian alphabet? things like lanas tatoo are made up symbols, but I think all the writings are letters.

[HarkIAmSuperman]

yeah krypton has its own alphabet, i have the kryptonian/english transliteration guide on my fridge door actually. I wouldnt be surprised if it did say stuff on the table, it has spelled stuff in the past (ie dr swanns moniter in season 2)

[shirkie]

I'm just thinking it might spell something interesting out... After all, we have the cute "BARCODE" on the octagonal disk and the "PLAINS" "RIVER" "BADLANDS" etc. stuff on the map... Not just nonsense stuff, there! So again, if anyone can possibly post some screencaps, that would be great. The detail my VCR captured is just too darn fuzzy to be of much use.
shirkie

[Lois Sullivan]

Shirkie, several of the symbols that are in the columns (Yes I have tried to read them that way, and unless their are a few extra letters in the Kryptonian alphabet that go past Z it's impossible.) aren't Kryptonian letters. Several of them are a compilation of the letters, made into symbols like the one for hope from Rosetta.

I'm currently trying to get a few screencaps for you. Maybe you can figure out the peice-mealed symbols. (I can count at least six that are like the ZOD symbol and the HOPE symbol) the other ones are all letters. Trying to get each column with those translated now. so far i've got one column translated. It reads "ONTH (weird symbol) AS". Hopefully I should have the screencaps for ya soon.

[shirkie]

I was looking at some of the symbols on the table from the Season 4 DVDs. I do believe you're right-- some of them seem to be purely decorative and definitely aren't anything from the alphabet. Bummer!
shirkie

[cmgames]

The symbols were probably something they found from a tea cosy or something. When it comes to SV its better not to look too deep into things as you ultimately end up disappointed.

[shy175223]

I know. It stinks that they don't think too much into things like that do they?

[cmgames]

^^ It sure does. They make SV like its supposed to be popcorn TV and I think I will have to treat it as such to get the most enjoyment out of it.

[Shazam]

The symbols were cool, but did you see the images from the Superman Movie that also were shown. example: Kryptonians falling in the sky, the Dome for the city? That was a cool reference to the Christopher Reeve movies

[shirkie]

But see, the lack of attention to detail in the symbols around the cave table (unless we're missing something, they seem to be meaningless) frustrates me. They put legitimate messages on the octagonal disk, the border of the manuscript, the hidden map inside the manuscript... The letters in Lionel's eyes seem to spell out "ZAP LEX. FUN WITH VCRS." Why wouldn't they do something fun with the cave table writing (which, by the way, is also replicated as a pictograph on one of the cave walls)?

I think I should go back to Season 1 on the DVDs and see what the original (and later changed) ship's heart looked like, see if that writing was anything interesting.

And yes, Shazam, the footage from Superman: The Movie was quite awesome, just like the musical homage!
shirkie

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Originally posted by Braniac
I mean people in dire need of love lives, be able to piece together the secret code a la 'Be Sure To Drink Your Ovaltine'
YAY! A "Christmas Story" reference!
One of the sons of Gene Shepherd (The author and narrator of the movie) was a close friend of mine.

[superman79]

Now that is cool!

[Lois Sullivan]

Shirkie, I'm sure you knew that the message written in Clark's ship, that the "ship's heart" decoded, was actually what Clark said. But the inner rotating symbols, the one closest to the bottom, was truly funny. Cause Clark's line was "It's a message from my biological father. But I'm sure i'm reading it wrong." And the message said "On this third planet from the star, Sol, you will be a god amonst men. They are a flawed race rule them with strength my son that is where your greatness lies" but the inner most circle closest to the bottom, it read "Made in Tawian"

[shirkie]

Do you have a screenshot of that? I would LOVE to get a part going on my site detailing every example of Kryptonian writing in the show...
shirkie

[smallvillerox05]

ZOD

If you have Kryptonian font, compare the last letter (D) to the inner symbol of the tattoo on Aethyr's back. Also, there are multiple lines of the Kryptonian Z, representing the O. They worked out the Kryptonian language into a symbol combining them, just like they did for "HOPE".

HOPE

L
Also, the tattoo that was on Lana's back is two stylized Kryptonian Ls facing each other.

[shirkie]

Now how did I not even think about these things? Ayyyy, I'm getting sloppy. So then........... Those symbols on the table................... The double solid diamond I saw could just be two Ns................................. WE NEED SCREENSHOTS, people! Get some screenshots, I say!!!!!!! Big, meaty shots of the table or the cave wall! Giant, meaty shots! We WILL decipher everything!
shirkie

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Originally posted by smallvillerox05

L
Also, the tattoo that was on Lana's back is two stylized Kryptonian Ls facing each other.

I never noticed but you're probably right! Extend and curve the vertical line in the Kryptonian "L" and shrink the big circle, then make another copy of the character rotated around 180 degrees and you end up with the Lana/ISobel tattoo.

See: http://www.smallville5.com/spell.jpg

in the same vein, the "ZOD" tattoo in "Arrival" was a reversed
Kryptonian "Z" character:
Z
with a second copy rotated around 180 degrees and the top and bottom connected by a diagonal line (and maybe a COMPLETELY mutated Kryptonian "D" but to my eyes it looks like an arbitrary diamond shape):
See: http://www.smallville5.com/zodtatto.jpg

And Shirkie, I can't make out much detail but here's two shots of the Altar in the Cave:
See: http://www.smallville5.com/altar1.jpg
http://www.smallville5.com/altar2.jpg

I think the only way to tackle the symbols on the altar will be with a TIVO recording of the HD broadcast.

Somewhere, you were asking about shots of the inside of Kal-El's Ship as well, Here's one:
http://www.smallville5.com/KalLShip.jpg

The five rings of kryptonian translate out as:
On this third planet from this star sol you will be a god
[rule with] strength my son that is where your greatness lies
rule with strength my son that is among men
where your greatness lies
made in taiwan

While it's all long forgotten by TPTB, this is NOT exactly the message that Clark told Jonathan in "Rosetta":

Clark: It's a message from my biological father. I'm sure I'm reading it wrong.

Jonathan: Why? What does it say?

Clark: "On this third planet from this star Sol, you will be a god among men. They are a flawed race. Rule them with strength, my son. That is where your greatness lies."

Clark walks away from the ship.

Clark: I think I was sent here to conquer. What kind of planet am I from?

Jonathan: Maybe you did misread it, Clark. But even if you didn't, it's you who decides what kind of a life you're gonna lead. Not me, not your mother, not your... biological parents.

[shirkie]

VERY useful. I seriously want to make a section of SESPS that covers kryptonian symbols of "Smallville." I definitely have a suspicion the table/altar is uber meaningful... It's just... so hard to get a decent screen cap. There are some great shots of the table in "Commencement"-- Can anyone get good definition screenshots off their Season 4 DVD!?!?!?
shirkie

[smallvillerox05]

I never noticed but you're probably right! Extend and curve the vertical line in the Kryptonian "L" and shrink the big circle, then make another copy of the character rotated around 180 degrees and you end up with the Lana/ISobel tattoo.
Yeah, I kinda know I'm right. :lol:

Also, the two dots at either end of the tattoo. There is one dot at the top of the Kryptonian letter. Two letters, two dots.

shirkie, if my dvd player on my computer hadn't stopped working, I'd get some pics of everything from my dvds, but alas, it stopped working right before i got s2 on dvd (sux, can't use dvd rom features :()

Doesn't anyone have a dvd player on their computer?

[Shadow09]

Originally posted by gtjsasso-el
well didn't it say that they were followers of Zod? Maybe the tattoos are the Zod gang insignia

That makes a lot of sense... as Lana found that and it struck a nerve... or maybe some sense of realization

[shirkie]

I have a DVD player on my computer................. I suppose I COULD try to do something with it.........! HHHhhhhhhmmmm...

Only thing is I do all my website construction on my laptop, which is like 4 years old, and I don't know how great its DVD-ROM drive works... But duh, I could just make a shared folder on my snazzy Alienware computer in my basement and save screencaps in there for later use on my laptop. HHhhhhmmmmm! I'll see what I can do!
shirkie

[Ultron]

The way I understand the useage of those Kryptonian symbols is that they are family-based. In other words an entire family of *-el's will have the symbol we recognize as Superman's. Zod's family would share his symbol.

I don't think the two Kryptonians are neccessarily from Zod's family. Maybe the girl might be related to Zod and share his symbol, or what we saw from her might be her own symbol.

I'd like to see a comparison of the symbol on her tatoo with the symbol that Lionel was carving into the Luthor mansion floor to see if they are the same thing.

[shirkie]

I spent pretty much all of today (Monday) speed-playing through Season One, Two, and part of Three on my computer in my basement. I have TONS of screenshots now of, as far as I can tell, EVERY example of Kryptonian writing as well as EVERY pictograph inside the cave. Tomorrow (Tuesday), I plan on zooming through the rest of Three and Season Four and taking the rest of the necessary screenshots. After that, I will review and label every screenshot I've taken, crop where necessary, and create an area of SESPS cataloguing all appearances of Kryptonian writing and symbols on "Smallville." You all have absolutely no idea how excited I am about this.

By the way, Ultron, The symbol Lionel was carving into the Luthor mansion floor WAS the tattoo on Aethyr's back.
shirkie

[shirkie]

UPDATE (9:30-ish on Tuesday night): I've made my way all the way through "Spell," and I'm up to over 170 screenshots. It's taking longer than I'd hoped! I should be able to finish Season Four tomorrow and start working on the new section. It's going to be absolutely HUGE... Everything from the ship, the heart, the key, the caves, Swann's messages, the Elements, the map, Isobel's spell book........... Prepare to be blown away.
shirkie

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Shirkie,
I'm sure you've cranked up your handy-dandy C.S.I. Graphics engine to:
take all the fragments and "automatically" spin them all in 3-space,
placing them in perfect orientation
- creating a full volumemetric model of the Kawatche caves
AND setting the one hidden symbol NO ONE EVER SUSPECTED WAS THERE to blink in a significant and dramatic way!
-all in 30 seconds or less!
;)
NOT!!!

It's HARD bloody work! Good on you, girlfriend!

If you get REALLY thorough, yoiu might want to get screen shots from the unaired scenes - Specifically:
Season 1 - Disc 6 Features
- storyboard scene from "Pilot" of the original Kal-El spaceship design.
-StoryboardS of Smallville High "\S/" on back of Clark's jacket before he stops the truck being driven by FOTW Jeremy Creek.

Season 2 - Disc 6 Features
- Gag reel - scene with Clark and the \8/ burned in his chest horsing around with Pete.

Season 3 - Disc 6 Features
- Gag Reel - Jonathan holding the Octagonal disk CaRAZZYY EYED!

Season 4
- the deleted scene from "Scare" where Lex lays out the Chinese Coat.
There might be more on the Season 4 deleted scenes but I lent my Set to a friend so I can't check.

BTW, did you notice whether the "LL" double tilde symbol from Lana's back appeared onscreen before season 4 (OR the "Zod" symbol appeared anywhere before Season 5)?
I doubt it but it would be nice to hear it confirmed.

[shirkie]

No, the LL symbol never appeared before Season 4. Just another example of making things up as they go along. ;)

And you scared me for a minute with that first stuff there! :)
shirkie

[shirkie]

... I have taken over 200 screenshots from the 4 seasons of DVDs... The cropping and brightening and labeling and organizing is underway... Page construction will be beginning soon... The day is coming...
shirkie

[Eh,Man?You-El?]

Shirkie, you have become an "oracle of krypton"

BTW, there's a new response from Beppo on Snowflake#852501, see:
http://www.popularfront.com/snowdays/index.html?id=852501&email_id=180152

and:
http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1520878#post1520878