Rafael Palmeiro-Guilty or a Mistake?

[axisoftime]

If u havent heard-this is the biggest name so far busted for steroid use.This guy has 3000 hits and over 500 home runs-a very very high mark in baseball rankings.A sure bet for the hall of fame-and his testimony a few months back-condeming steroid use and under oath saying he never never used them.Now he claims he didnt know what he was taking-that it was an accident-even Pres.Bush believes him-however now I hear Congress is talking about perjury charges.So is it a mistake or is he a liar?
Would an athlete just take a pill not knowing what it is?Does the average fan even care about athletes taking drugs?

[smallvillerox05]

I care about athletes taking drugs. Once they start taking SOMEONE ELSE'S DRUGS, then I won't care less. :p

I don't think anyone would take pills without knowing what they are. Not exactly the healthiest thing to do.

And whether or not it was a mistake, at least now we know why he needs all the ******. ;)

[Darth_Elvis]

Yes, some athletes just take stuff and don't have a clue what they are. There was an article a couple of years ago about the Angels and how some of the players would just consume pills upon pills and wouldn't even know what they were ingesting. maybe 5 yrs ago was the article.

There are supplements that are standard by NCAA, others are not standard. NCAA athletes take the standard stuff because it's been checked already and safe. MLB should do the same. Raffy might have been taking stuff that was not the NCAA stuff and therefore possibly could have been laced with stuff, but steroids?! I dunno about that, must be expensive to have something like that in a protein powder. The guy is a cheater, like McGwire, Sosa, Canseco, Giambi. No Hall of Fame for either.

If Pete Rose can't get in the Hall, then why should any of these guys?

[4EverSmallville]

As an average baseball fan, sometimes fanatic :p, I care whether athletes take drugs or not. It's not healthy in the long run, but if they don't care enough about lifetime health then I won't either. IMO it's immoral and dishonest and I don't have any respect for a player who uses them.

With numbers as phenomenal as Palmeiro, suspicion is already aroused, but he was documented in Juiced by Jose Canseco as having used them. I've read Juiced, and I for one believe Canseco over Palmeiro. Canseco has no shame in using steroids, and as a retired player he has much less to lose.

Forgive my bluntness, but what kind of person takes an injection without bothering to learn what's in it. Steroids, as I read in Juiced, was an injection and Canseco taught Palmeiro, among others, how to do them on their own. IMO Palmeiro is a liar.

[Darth_Elvis]

Oh and Bonds too. Can't believe I forgot about that guy.

The Olympic Games are much more serious about drug testing (therefore more people get caught) than MLB, getting stripped of a medal is way more of a loss than losing 10 games. MLB is a joke and I think I'm bout' to stop watching it again.

[BeepBeep]

Liar.

To be honest, I'm rather annoyed with the media when it comes to how they handled the accusation that Bonds used steroids when compared to how they have reacted now that Palmeiro has tested positive for steroids.

I have no particular love for Bonds, as he often seems like a grumpy, arrogant jerk, but the media is so biased towards him that he was crucified in the media immediately after his trainer was linked to steroids. Because of his less than ideal relationship with the media, everybody in the media called for Bonds' head.

Now we have Palmeiro, who has been proven to have taken steroids, and the media, on the whole, is taking a more "wait and see" or "maybe it was an accident" outlook on it. I find the media bias sickening. It seems more like disappoinment than outrage.

I'm not saying Bonds, who more than likely has used steroids, should be greeted with open arms, but to have such different reactions is disappointing to me.

[Backward Galaxy]

He's a moron either way. Either he's a moron because he got caught/took it in the first place or he's a moron because he didn't know what he was taking.

[PATMAN]

As a baseball extremeist, and general good guy, Palmero should be punished more then 10 games. 1st he blatently lies *cough*Mcgwire*cough* and jabs a finger at congress, but then he turns up like this. The guy's a shmuck.

[biym6969]

he's guilty, so is giambino...

[Daphne]

I just wish we could see natural talent. With some many people using drugs to improve their performance, it's just a situation of who can get the best drugs.
I say test them all like at the Olympics and make it natural talent that shows. We might not have the crazy home run seasons, but at least we know what we are seeing is real.

[Kal-L, The Original]

I think he did it and I think he knew what he was doing and I wish he would just say that and be done with it.

The three problems I have in this discussion are that I have trouble seeing how taking steroids in order to increase recovery time between workouts is any different than taking cortisone-- which is a steroid-- shots in order to play with a hurt shoulder, taking steroids doesn't help you hit the ball in the first place or make the ball go farther when you do hit it, and the people who would actually receive the most direct benefit from steroid use in baseball would be relief pitchers not hitters.

Just don't see the big deal.

As for Jose Canseco: Throws his "friends" to the wolves just so he can make a buck. Yyyyeah-- great guy! :rolleyes:

[Daphne]

I am not sure that they are taking steroids to just increase recovery time though. My brother played college football and he said they all were taking steriods to help muscle growth, to make them stronger. That would help them hit the ball further. That's what I was thinking.

[Kal-L, The Original]

Originally posted by Daphne
I am not sure that they are taking steroids to just increase recovery time though. My brother played college football and he said they all were taking steriods to help muscle growth, to make them stronger. That would help them hit the ball further. That's what I was thinking.

That's absolutely true, but steroids do that by increasing muscle recovery time allowing one to work out more often and harder. This is of direct benefit in really physical sports like football, or sports that purely test strength like powerlifting. With sports like baseball there is a lesser, more indirect benefit.

My point is not that there is no benefit to hitters, just that it's not as huge a thing as everyone is making out. I just believe that overexpansion and dilution of pitching talent and modern natural weight training have had more of an impact on home run totals than steroids.

And I still don't see how steroid use to work out and get stronger is different from a pitcher with a sore shoulder taking a cortisone shot so he can play.

[Darth_Elvis]

Cortisone shots are taken to decrease the inflammation in injury spots like an ankle or shoulder.

Raffy wasn't taking cortisone. The dude was taking stuff just like why Giambi, bonds, canseco, sosa, McGwire were taking the stuff. To Cheat.

There is a huge difference between taking a legal drug like cortisone to decrease inflammation and taking a banned/illegal substance.

Being stronger and combining that with the ability to hit a ball means big stats.

[axisoftime]

The steroid he took-something called stanozolol-is apperantly a very strong drug-making it even harder to believe he didnt know what it was.Even though he loses 10 days salary-like $150,000-he'll still make millions.This could force MLB to really toughen its drug policy.Some do want it more like the olympics-a 1 year ban for 1st violation and lifetime for 2nd!And he could face perjury charges-he may go to jail!

[Darth_Elvis]

Ben Johnson lost his gold medal for taking this drug, this guy should lose more than just 10 games. MLB needs to get to work...

[sstray72]

As paraphrased from the move "The Incredibles:"
"In a world where everyone is super, no one is."

I think that yes, Palmiero took steroids, but I believe that damn near everyone is taking some kind of drug to improve thier performance, whether it be creatine or 'Clear.' I could take all of the steroids I wanted, but that doesn't mean that I would ever be able to hit the fastball of the MLB's worst pitcher. The smaller ballparks, the lowered quality of pitching and specialization, and the DH has caused the statistical essence of baseball to change. I don't think that steroids really helps these players that much.

The thing is, why doesnt anyone ever think that players from the 70's and 80's took steroids? Hank Aaron, may have to improve his longevity, Cal Ripken may have taken them to heal faster so he can keep his streak going. No one ever thinks of these guys. How can anyone ever prove that anyone in the past didn't use things to get an advantage? Who knows how long Sammy was using the cork? No one can prove anything, so there can be nothing but accusations.

Funny thing is, the guy that I think may have been before his time when it came to being enhanced, is the great BABE RUTH himself. This guy was far and away more talented than his peers, he was a pitcher who could hit 50 home runs... Nobody EVER suspects that he might've been using snake oil...

[Kal-L, The Original]

Originally posted by sstray72
As paraphrased from the move "The Incredibles:"
"In a world where everyone is super, no one is."

I think that yes, Palmiero took steroids, but I believe that damn near everyone is taking some kind of drug to improve thier performance, whether it be creatine or 'Clear.' I could take all of the steroids I wanted, but that doesn't mean that I would ever be able to hit the fastball of the MLB's worst pitcher. The smaller ballparks, the lowered quality of pitching and specialization, and the DH has caused the statistical essence of baseball to change. I don't think that steroids really helps these players that much.

The thing is, why doesnt anyone ever think that players from the 70's and 80's took steroids? Hank Aaron, may have to improve his longevity, Cal Ripken may have taken them to heal faster so he can keep his streak going. No one ever thinks of these guys. How can anyone ever prove that anyone in the past didn't use things to get an advantage? Who knows how long Sammy was using the cork? No one can prove anything, so there can be nothing but accusations.

Funny thing is, the guy that I think may have been before his time when it came to being enhanced, is the great BABE RUTH himself. This guy was far and away more talented than his peers, he was a pitcher who could hit 50 home runs... Nobody EVER suspects that he might've been using snake oil...

That's true. There was a player from the '50s or '60s not too long ago who was saying that a lot of the players, mainly pitchers, in his day took performance enhancers. We'll never know what kind of things all these other players from the past took.

As for the cortisone thing-- that's true, too, but most guys who take the shot wouldn't be able to play at all without it; guys who take steroids would be able to play without it, they just couldn't work out as hard or as long to get stronger. And I'm not arguing that it makes _no_ difference in their stats, just that there are other factors which are more important.

[axisoftime]

Babe Ruth accomplished his great feats INSPITE of his physical condition.Yes he was the hreatest of his time-but he didnt take care of himself at all.He drank alot-and ate alot.People would speculate at how much better he could have been had he tried to be an athlete lol.Theres a story in Ty Cobbs biography about him and Ruth out partying late at night-staggering back to Ruths place-where Ruth proceeded to eat 6 hero subs-2 jars of pigs knuckles-drinking 6 more beers-while Cobb looked on in amazement.And then the next day-Ruth being hungover with a stomach ache-and still hitting a home run lol!

[The Satyr Icon]

guilty


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