Doctor Who #6.2 "Day Of The Moon"

[KSiteTV]

Talk about the second episode of Doctor Who Series Six - airing today - here!

[WellingFan]

32 minutes and counting for us UK viewers!

[WellingFan]

OMG!!!! For all you guys in the US who need to wait until later to see the episode, keep watching right until the very end, TRUST ME!:eek:

I'll comment more later on after you guys see it.

[quinny06]

As cliffhangers go, I never thought the Tenth Doctor regenerating at the end of The Stolen Earth would ever be topped. I was wrong.

Brain overloading with thoughts of what this means. Can't quite put them into words right now.

The episode it itself was okay, I thought. We just came away with far more questions than answers. But since this is the series opener, I should have expected that.

[starameth]

confusing! but this episode Cemented my love of River <3

[CloisShipper]

What.The.Hell.

I don't even know what to say. I'm completely stumped. I have so many questions!.

I'll leave my review using tags out of consideration for U.S viewers.

For one, who is that little girl? Is she Amy's daughter or something, going off that photo?
Why is that little girl REGENERATING?! I don't get it. Somehow I don't see the Doctor regenerating into a little girl in his next incarnation, LOL. And she seems connected to Amy.
And what is going on with Amy? is she pregnant? is she not pregnant? is she pregnant then not pregnant then pregnant than not pregnant? Is something wrong with the timelines and that's why she thinks she pregnant one second and then another second she's not? I mean judging off the Doctor's monitor it's something like that, it seems.

At least the only thing I got from that episode was that the version of River Song that we saw is the one who is about to go to the library or at least nearing it.

Oh and Amy/Rory! Awwwwwwwwwwwwww, could they not get any sweeter? I love Rory, it's official, he is definitely becoming one of my favourite companions! What a total sweetheart.

[smithy698]

I enjoyed it, but personally I just wonder whether the show is getting a little too complex for its own good.

Loved the Nixon references, though - very witty.

[Superboy-Prime]

solid snake:What...the....hell!?

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[Superboy-Prime]

32 minutes and counting for us UK viewers!

And those in the us who can easily download the ep right after it airs in the uk.

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[Superboy-Prime]

Something I dont understand though. How do they know about the silence? In the first episode after they saw them they forgot em completely. But in this one they remember that theres an alien that they keep forgetting. How did they remember that?

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[i_need_a_new_username]

This seems to weird to be true. Is the child The Doctor's daughter (another one) with River? Or Amy?

----- Added 30 Seconds later -----


Something I dont understand though. How do they know about the silence? In the first episode after they saw them they forgot em completely. But in this one they remember that theres an alien that they keep forgetting. How did they remember that?

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I'm guessing after Amy saw her picture they remembered something.

[Superboy-Prime]

This seems to weird to be true. Is the child The Doctor's daughter (another one) with River? Or Amy?

----- Added 30 Seconds later -----



I'm guessing after Amy saw her picture they remembered something.

She can't remember anything thats their power. When they skipped ahead three months from the last episode its like we skipped an ep that explained all this.


We went from them knowing nothing about the silence in the impossible astronaut, I mean not even being aware of them and they were everywhere.

To them being aware of the silence existence and knowing that they can't remember them and knowing that they rule the earth in the day of the moon. I mean what the hell, it was a great episode but if he planned the silence since series 5 he should've prepared for this instead of glossing it over.

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[jaffa1980]

ok so my take on it is this... and spoliers here so if you aint seen it don't read on.


The photo show's the kid is Amys... they had the conversation at the end about not telling Rory incease it had a "time head". The dr ran a scan and it flick from posistive to negative...

all in all i'd say the amount of time she has spent through time and space has messed with her bits n bobs and she gives birth to a time lord type kid at some time (the on you see regenerate)..

The thing that gets me though is the previous episode we saw the dr die right?! (i get its a future version) so that means this is the last dr... no more re-casting... bummer is the end in sight?

[quinny06]

Before the episode, I thought the clues were leading towards the child being Amy's daughter. The fact that the girl had a picture of Amy holding a baby also supports that.

But she can regenerate?! Surely they don't mean its the Doctor and Amy's daughter!

Or is that what the Moff wants us to think? They also brought up the possibility of Amy being in love with the Doctor and not Rory again, which I thought we we got over and done with last year. Is he trying to distract us?

Maybe the child is the Doctor's, but not Amy's. She was just there at the birth, had her picture taken? Who knows, it could be the Doctor and River's daughter. Or none of the above. But Amy and the Doctor's, I think not.


To them being aware of the silence existence and knowing that they can't remember them and knowing that they rule the earth in the day of the moon. I mean what the hell, it was a great episode but if he planned the silence since series 5 he should've prepared for this instead of glossing it over.

As said above, I think they went off the picture Amy took on her phone. And I don't think he's glossed over anything. I'm expecting to see the Silence again. We still don't know why they blew up the TARDIS.

But there are some other unanswered questions. What happened in between the end of last episode and the beginning of this one? Why did Canton need to track them down? They were all together at the end of last episode.

Overall however, it was an enjoyable watch. All the stuff with Apollo 11 and Nixon was great. The haunted house (which it was, essentially) was very creepy. Mark Sheppard was so cool as Canton, really hope he comes back in a future episode. And Rory probably became my favourite companion ever.

Having said that, I think this grand arc that Moffat's crafting might have a few too many questions for some people, and it doesn't look like we'll get too many answers until episode 13.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


The thing that gets me though is the previous episode we saw the dr die right?! (i get its a future version) so that means this is the last dr... no more re-casting... bummer is the end in sight?

I very much doubt it. I'm sure the Moff has planned a way out of that.

[Superboy-Prime]

ok so my take on it is this... and spoliers here so if you aint seen it don't read on.


The photo show's the kid is Amys... they had the conversation at the end about not telling Rory incease it had a "time head". The dr ran a scan and it flick from posistive to negative...

all in all i'd say the amount of time she has spent through time and space has messed with her bits n bobs and she gives birth to a time lord type kid at some time (the on you see regenerate)..

The thing that gets me though is the previous episode we saw the dr die right?! (i get its a future version) so that means this is the last dr... no more re-casting... bummer is the end in sight?

It is not the last doctor, get that kinda thinking out of your head. They can write themselves out of it, its not that big a deal. Last year the doctor was sealed in the pandorica and the universe was destroyed, was that the end of the show? No, they wrote themselves out of it and they will do the same with the doctors death

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[plat3]

spoiler spoiler spoiler for those who didnt watch it yet.

so does the doctor have 2 daughters that he doesnt know they exist. he is becoming quite a playboy :P all jokes aside i didnt c that one coming the little gitl is a time lord. how?

[Tekken Force]

More unanswered questions than you can shake a sonic screwdriver at. I can't even be bothered to list them all out. Bit of a frustrating episode, and it felt a bit like watching Lost all over again..."it's a sweltering island in the middle of the pacific, but let's throw a polar bear in there for no apparent reason!"

I just didn't understand half of what was going on here. It was all very fast paced.

[ReevesSuperman]

I was right Doctor's death = Smoke Monster. I don't know if I hate or loved this episode. As much as people complained about RTD, I don't think he would ever go this far into twisting things around that it is now unbreakable knot. A lot of good stuff, but I am looking forward to a fun pirate episode.

[momo6995]

Why is the little girl regenerating? Is she Amy's daughter? How did Amy miss the girl when she was shooting from 10 yards away? Why is there a pirate episode next week without answering my other questions? These are all questions I have about this episode. I don't know what to think.

[Superboy-Prime]

Why is the little girl regenerating? Is she Amy's daughter? How did Amy miss the girl when she was shooting from 10 yards away? Why is there a pirate episode next week without answering my other questions? These are all questions I have about this episode. I don't know what to think.

well she hit the suit, just not the girl
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[momo6995]

I came up with another question as I was looking in the mirror from the first one. Could you see and be thinking about those aliens in the mirror even though you weren't looking directly at them?

[janie]

Back in the day, we wondered about the 1st Doctor's first companion. Susan. His granddaughter. Is this Time Girl actually Susan, the granddaughter of the 1st Doctor?

My first thought, though, was that this was Jenny, from The Doctor's Daughter, but she regenerated into herself (which makes sense, since she's a clone.) So this could be Jenny's daughter, and the picture of Amy holding the baby is just from when Amy meets Jenny after Jenny gives birth. Is Jenny's daughter Susan?

The quantum indeterminacy of Amy's pregnancy, though... is this not a totally original spin on the pregnancy trope? They hinted at such a possibility last year in The Beast Below, when Amy's marital status was "unknown" to Britain's historical records.

[Superboy-Prime]

Back in the day, we wondered about the 1st Doctor's first companion. Susan. His granddaughter. Is this Time Girl actually Susan, the granddaughter of the 1st Doctor?

My first thought, though, was that this was Jenny, from The Doctor's Daughter, but she regenerated into herself (which makes sense, since she's a clone.) So this could be Jenny's daughter, and the picture of Amy holding the baby is just from when Amy meets Jenny after Jenny gives birth. Is Jenny's daughter Susan?

The quantum indeterminacy of Amy's pregnancy, though... is this not a totally original spin on the pregnancy trope? They hinted at such a possibility last year in The Beast Below, when Amy's marital status was "unknown" to Britain's historical records.

is it normal practice to take pictures with babies that arent youre own and arent related to you while in hospital garb?

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[quinny06]

is it normal practice to take pictures with babies that arent youre own and arent related to you while in hospital garb?

Is it hospital garb? Could easily be a white shirt, which we're supposed to believe is a hopsital gown.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


A lot of good stuff, but I am looking forward to a fun pirate episode.

I think you just hit the nail on the head. These 2 episodes did have a lot of fun, creepy moments. But everything was just about the arc, really. Not like The Eleventh Hour last year, which was a great self-contained story, with many hints to what was to come over the next 12 episodes. I just don't think we're used to opening episodes being like this.

I don't think we'll be able to fully appreciate these episodes until we've seen the other 11. Which is kind of a shame, really.

----- Added later -----

Oh, by the way, last night I joined probably every child in Britain in having a nightmare about the Silence. Which makes me feel quite silly, even if it was a bit thrilling to be running away from them. :p

[janie]

These 2 episodes did have a lot of fun, creepy moments. But everything was just about the arc, really. Not like The Eleventh Hour last year, which was a great self-contained story, with many hints to what was to come over the next 12 episodes. I just don't think we're used to opening episodes being like this.

I don't think we'll be able to fully appreciate these episodes until we've seen the other 11. Which is kind of a shame, really.

It can go both ways, can't it? On the one hand, there's the tidy payoff of a self-contained episode. It's like coming to the end of a roller-coaster ride, and then you're ready to go on to the next attraction. Better yet, it's like going to the movies.

On the other hand, we're now getting a more overtly serialized story. It does mean that we don't get to fully appreciate the moment, because the moment depends on what comes next... and to some extent, what's come before. How many people went back through previous seasons looking for the Silence after The Impossible Astronaut? I did. It was a lot of fun. Added depth.

It depends on execution, though. Take Lost... a lot of people went to the Island and all they got out of it was the Crystal Skull of Indiana Jones. Six years' investment. People following character arcs and emotional developments did fine, but significant mysteries stayed in the realm of mystery.

So it's a risk, but not an unreasonable one. We get the potential for a huge payoff, and the opportunity to go back and watch the episodes again with more insight and really a different perspective on what actually happened. The real question for me is, can Moffat pull it off?

[ReevesSuperman]

I think a lot of people hate Lost after its "payoff'. Babylon 5 was really the only successful show where they pulled off a huge 5 year arc and didn't piss 50% of the fanbase doing it. I love big arcs, but sometimes you get a story and has zero appeal to you. Buffy season 5 was that for me as was Angel season 3. I didn't care about Dawn, Glory or Conner, so thats a year of my life wasted. What you can hope for is having a great episode or two during the arc like the Body in Buffy Season 5. To me, I am curious about the story, but I have a very bad feeling about it.

[jon-el87]

Why is the little girl regenerating? Is she Amy's daughter? How did Amy miss the girl when she was shooting from 10 yards away? Why is there a pirate episode next week without answering my other questions? These are all questions I have about this episode. I don't know what to think.

I'm curious about that myself. Journey's End states that the metacrisis Doctor (who's a Human-Time Lord Hybrid) can't regenerate. So, she's probably not a hybrid.

However, in the classical series, we saw other species a couple of times, with the ability to regenerate (though, both times, their regeneration had ties to the Time Lords). Amy talked about being worried that her travels with the Doctor might've affected the embryo somehow. Both the Doctor and others have regenerated inside the Tardis, so there could be residual energy somewhere in it, that's absorbed by the embryo (which'll give the child the ability to regenerate).

I can think of yet another senario: She's a Time Lady, who has regenerated into the form of Amy's unborn child (the second Romana and 6th Doctor showed that a Time Lord can choose their new appearance).

[janie]

Bit of a frustrating episode, and it felt a bit like watching Lost all over again..."it's a sweltering island in the middle of the pacific, but let's throw a polar bear in there for no apparent reason!"

I just didn't understand half of what was going on here. It was all very fast paced.

It was the sort of episode (both of them, really) that gets better after being seen again.

The polar bear was a bit of a joke, but not entirely. All of Lost had a convergence of opposites... every polarity was balanced, more or less. Hence, a polar bear in the South Pacific.

In a way, Lost had to suck at some point if only to balance out all the great moments it did deliver.



I think a lot of people hate Lost after its "payoff'.

I had a very different experience. By the end, I was invested in the characters, and rooting for the mysteries of Smoke and Mirror (Island) to remain a mystery. From my perspective, Lost was perfectly perfect in every way, except for the taste it left in other peoples' mouths.



Buffy season 5 was that for me as was Angel season 3. I didn't care about Dawn, Glory or Conner, so thats a year of my life wasted. What you can hope for is having a great episode or two during the arc like the Body in Buffy Season 5. To me, I am curious about the story, but I have a very bad feeling about it.

I'm with you on Angel 3, but I disagree about Buffy 5. I loved the payoff of Buffy! Yes, I hated Dawn at first, too, but I came to love her as much as all the rest of the characters. But I'm a Joss devotee, so there you go.

Another series that tries to balance episodic programming with serialization is Fringe. It's an invocation of the X Files, which was mostly a monster-of-the-week sort of show until people got invested in the underlying mythology of the show.

It's got to be hard to deliver mythology. It works really well in serialization, doling out revelations until the Other World becomes apparent, and certainly it's the best vehicle for developing characters. However, there are all kinds of problems inherent in a serialized drama. There's continuity and canon, which Who fans know has never been a hallmark of our show. It takes planning out a whole lot in advance, and unfortunately plans get easily torn to shreds by the Real World, what with strikes and contract disputes and ruined props and what have you. It's a lot easier to write yourself into a corner that you can't get out of.

I feel better about the serialization of Who, because its future is reasonably assured... this isn't a show on the brink of cancellation or anything like that. If anything, it's become a staple of British culture. Just look at all the people who come out for the Proms!

Trust your Doctor.

[quinny06]

I feel better about the serialization of Who, because its future is reasonably assured... this isn't a show on the brink of cancellation or anything like that. If anything, it's become a staple of British culture. Just look at all the people who come out for the Proms!

I think RTD has said this in the past, but the show really has become immortal. It's dug itself so deep into our culture that even if some idiot cancels it in years to come, it'll always come back. And years from now we'll probably be yapping to the young folk clutching their 19th action Doctor figure, saying "I remember the little girl regenerating at the end of Day of the Moon. Now that was a cliffhanger!" I love that.

[Superboy-Prime]

I think RTD has said this in the past, but the show really has become immortal. It's dug itself so deep into our culture that even if some idiot cancels it in years to come, it'll always come back. And years from now we'll probably be yapping to the young folk clutching their 19th action Doctor figure, saying "I remember the little girl regenerating at the end of Day of the Moon. Now that was a cliffhanger!" I love that.

Teal'C *nods head*: indeed

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[momo6995]

I think RTD has said this in the past, but the show really has become immortal. It's dug itself so deep into our culture that even if some idiot cancels it in years to come, it'll always come back. And years from now we'll probably be yapping to the young folk clutching their 19th action Doctor figure, saying "I remember the little girl regenerating at the end of Day of the Moon. Now that was a cliffhanger!" I love that.

I'm pretty sure he can only have 13 incarnations, but we can hope that years from now there will be a 19th doctor. Maybe they will do some sort of change up to keep the show going.

[Superboy-Prime]

I'm pretty sure he can only have 13 incarnations, but we can hope that years from now there will be a 19th doctor. Maybe they will do some sort of change up to keep the show going.

Doctor said he could regenerate 507 times,rhe last time he discussed it.

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[ReevesSuperman]

Doctor said he could regenerate 507 times,rhe last time he discussed it.

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If you are talking about the Sarah Jane episode, it was meant as a joke.

[jon-el87]

I'm pretty sure he can only have 13 incarnations, but we can hope that years from now there will be a 19th doctor. Maybe they will do some sort of change up to keep the show going.

Mawdyrn Undead did feature a group, who had stolen the technology behind the Time Lords regeneration ability. However, they didn't have the limit of 12 regenerations (though, they lacked any control over when their regenerations would happen and could regenerate at any time). Which implies, at least to me, that a limit of 12 is something decided, by the Time Lords (fearing too many would lead members of their kind, to become reckless or something). So, with the Time Lords gone, it's possible that the limit has been removed somehow.

[momo6995]

Doctor said he could regenerate 507 times,rhe last time he discussed it.

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In the old series it stated that a time lord could only regenerate 12 times. It could change now that it is the new series they might change the rule. They did make up that rule before they had Galifrey destroyed, so not that the Doctor is the only timelord left (don't know about that little girl and the Master went through the void), I don't know what will happen.

[quinny06]

I said this last week, there's no 'might' or 'maybe' about it. Of course they're going to break the 13 regenerations rule. The show is too popular, makes too much money, and had contradicted itself too many times before to suddenly decide to remain completely faithful to a throwaway line said a couple of times in the 70s. It's just not going to happen.

[WellingFan]

And those in the us who can easily download the ep right after it airs in the uk.

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:D

[janie]

Oooh, ooh, did anyone catch the Warrior's Gate reference? The Doctor's prison was made of dwarf-star alloy! That was a great episode, such a strong Romana and a cool alien and all those mirrors and the time-weirdness. It wasn't the easiest episode to grok back in the day.

[Superboy-Prime]

If you are talking about the Sarah Jane episode, it was meant as a joke.

Thats not what rtd said.

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[Superboy-Prime]

That was a great episode, such a strong Romana and a cool alien and all those mirrors and the time-weirdness. It wasn't the easiest episode to grok back in the day.

Not sure I understand what youre talking about.

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[Superboy-Prime]

I said this last week, there's no 'might' or 'maybe' about it. Of course they're going to break the 13 regenerations rule. The show is too popular, makes too much money, and had contradicted itself too many times before to suddenly decide to remain completely faithful to a throwaway line said a couple of times in the 70s. It's just not going to happen.

completely agree, I dont get why some ppl dont understand this.

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[Tekken Force]

It was the sort of episode (both of them, really) that gets better after being seen again.
I thought so too, and after another watch I was able to absorb it a little bit better.
There are still quite a few things that I have trouble with or don't get the purpose of at all.

First off, regenerating Girl, though obviously no one gets that part yet. Then there's this three month gap in which god knows what happened. I mean what happened after the end of Impossible Astronaut? Wasn't Rory being attacked by the silents? What happened after Amy shot the astro-girl? Why the whole pretence with Canton hunting down the Doctor and co? I was looking forward to seeing what happened next after Impossible Astronaut's cliffhanger and the way the next week's episode started off was a little frustrating. Uncompromising stuff. And of course, who was that person looking through the hatch in the orphanage door? And why did the Doctor bring up Rory's 2000 years as an Auton guarding the Pandorica. And what exactly did the Doctor do to the moon landing capsule. I'm presuming he rigged it so that it would transmit Canton' recoding of the Silent saying you should kill us on sight. I just wish the Silent's ability to influence people's behaviour was stated a bit more clearly. And how did they get their hands on the Tardis from The Lodger? (Phew.)


The polar bear was a bit of a joke, but not entirely. All of Lost had a convergence of opposites... every polarity was balanced, more or less. Hence, a polar bear in the South Pacific.

In a way, Lost had to suck at some point if only to balance out all the great moments it did deliver.Not sure what you mean but I'll take your word. I give up on Lost after 2 seasons, it just wasn't my bag, though judging from some internet sites it has one heck of a cult following, so I suppose it must be doing something right for someone.


I feel better about the serialization of Who, because its future is reasonably assured... this isn't a show on the brink of cancellation or anything like that. If anything, it's become a staple of British culture. Just look at all the people who come out for the Proms!Yeah it's obviously an immortal kind of thing that's been around ages already, but I've always worried that every franchise can run for only so long in one unbroken run before something forces it to at least take a break eventually, be it general fatigue or something else. See Trek under Rick Berman. You know not so long ago RTD was the person who bought back Who in such a fantastic way, now there's this new wave of fans who are so glad to see the back of him, and think Stephen Moffat is the best thing since sliced bread. Eventually one day the fans will trash him as though he never did anything right, mark my words. Sci fi fans are the pickiest and most unforgiving bunch.

Doctor said he could regenerate 507 times,rhe last time he discussed it.Random number. I wonder where he got it from.

[Superboy-Prime]

Ooooh I almost forgot the woman in the hatch. That was really creepy and made no sense unless she really was dreaming

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[MissWofflez]

This ep was....... amzing/briliant/scary/funny/little freaky but most of all plain confusing :lol:

One thing i didnt like was, well we know that the silence is a series long arc and it wasnt the last that we saw of them in this episode, but the doctor is always very against vilonce, being an 'alien' himself he usualy always tries to help a different race to live in peace and leave earth alone. But in this ep we had that confontion scene giving the order for all humans to kill the silence and they are just killing them down and the doctor just ... i dunno, it just sounded wrong :(

ANyone else think that?

[Tekken Force]

I think you got a point there, though the silents still have that hijacked Tardis, surely they could just sod off to another planet or something, lol.

[quinny06]

And how did they get their hands on the Tardis from The Lodger?

If you watch Doctor Who Confidential afterwards, it seemed like the Moff was saying: it's not the Tardis from the Lodger, it's just an identical ship, one of many they have all over the Earth. The ship in the Lodger was a Silence ship that had been left behind once they left Earth. But I'm thinking it'll actually go further than that, seeing as Craig will be back later in the series


One thing i didnt like was, well we know that the silence is a series long arc and it wasnt the last that we saw of them in this episode, but the doctor is always very against vilonce, being an 'alien' himself he usualy always tries to help a different race to live in peace and leave earth alone. But in this ep we had that confontion scene giving the order for all humans to kill the silence and they are just killing them down and the doctor just ... i dunno, it just sounded wrong :(

ANyone else think that?

I know what you mean, but he didn't really want humans to kill the Silence. He wanted to force the Silence to leave, which he did by letting them know they'd be killed if they stayed.

[janie]

Oooh, ooh, did anyone catch the Warrior's Gate reference? The Doctor's prison was made of dwarf-star alloy! That was a great episode, such a strong Romana and a cool alien and all those mirrors and the time-weirdness. It wasn't the easiest episode to grok back in the day.


Not sure I understand what youre talking about.

Just showing my age. Warrior's Gate was a Who episode from something like 1980, it was the first (and hitherto only?) to mention "dwarf star alloy", which a slaver ship used to keep the time-sensitive Tharils from escaping.

Another ancient bit of referencing was the Doctor saying "brave heart, Canton," back in TIA; that was 5's line for Tegan, another companion.



there's this three month gap in which god knows what happened. I mean what happened after the end of Impossible Astronaut? Wasn't Rory being attacked by the silents? What happened after Amy shot the astro-girl? Why the whole pretence with Canton hunting down the Doctor and co?

Well, just looking at the brief and choppy black-and-white FlashBack, it looks like Rory and River ran out of the sewer, while the Doctor dragged a woozy Canton and shelf-shocked Amy out of the Florida building. Rory and River would have forgotten the Silence by the time they got to the surface, but they wouldn't have forgotten Amy's gunshot, and the Doctor was probably yelling at them to get the hell out of there. Run, basically, a fine Who strategy, but not very climactic as far as resolving a cliffhanger goes, which is probably why they opened with Amy and Rory and River faking their deaths while the Doctor faked being a prisoner.

The companions said they'd spent the intervening months doing recon, finding out that the Silence were all over the world. The Doctor got himself into Area 51, the only place where the U.S. would have something to "imprison" him in such a way that the Silence couldn't breach the plans. The whole "hunting them down" bit was basically to fake out the Silence and get the team back together.

A bit frustrating, yeah, to have to piece all that together from context, but still a fun ride, I thought.



And of course, who was that person looking through the hatch in the orphanage door?

And why did the hatch disappear? I wonder if the indeterminacy of that door is related to the indeterminacy of Amy's pregnancy.



And why did the Doctor bring up Rory's 2000 years as an Auton guarding the Pandorica.

I dunno. I liked it, though, if only because it played on the themes of remembering and forgetting.



You know not so long ago RTD was the person who bought back Who in such a fantastic way, now there's this new wave of fans who are so glad to see the back of him, and think Stephen Moffat is the best thing since sliced bread. Eventually one day the fans will trash him as though he never did anything right, mark my words. Sci fi fans are the pickiest and most unforgiving bunch.
Random number. I wonder where he got it from.

I loved RTD's stint, his finales always got me, but it was Moffat's episodes that stood out most for me. Especially Silence In The Library.



the doctor is always very against vilonce, being an 'alien' himself he usualy always tries to help a different race to live in peace and leave earth alone. But in this ep we had that confontion scene giving the order for all humans to kill the silence and they are just killing them down and the doctor just ... i dunno, it just sounded wrong :(

ANyone else think that?

Yeah, it was a bit dark, wasn't it? On the other hand, he did say they weren't fighting back an invasion, but leading a revolution. The Silence didn't acquiesce to surrendering, and even said people should kill them -- it's what they would do.

Back in the day, there were occasions where he didn't see non-violence as an option... like in State Of Decay, he was all gung ho to kill the vampire. And, like quinny says, he needed some leverage to get the Silence to even pay attention.

At least he said he usually wasn't all for shooting, that this was a special situation... and he leaves it to River to go all River Tam on the Silence while he takes her back with his sonic.



it's not the Tardis from the Lodger, it's just an identical ship, one of many they have all over the Earth. The ship in the Lodger was a Silence ship that had been left behind once they left Earth.

There are a few differences between the two ships. The control panels are different colors, and the central column isn't quite the same, either.

Question: if the Silence had time-travel technology, is it possible they infiltrated the Time Lords long ago? Might the Silence be responsible for the Time War in the first place?

[Superboy-Prime]

janie when I said I dont know what youre talking about I wasnt talking about the warriors gate stuff I was talking about what you wrote after, which is why I omitted the warriors gate comments you made when I posted youre quote.

Romana? Mirrors? Grok?

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[quinny06]

Another ancient bit of referencing was the Doctor saying "brave heart, Canton," back in TIA; that was 5's line for Tegan, another companion.

What?! How the hell did I miss that? What part of the episode did he say it?


and he leaves it to River to go all River Tam on the Silence while he takes her back with his sonic.

I knew that reminded me of something!:lol:

[janie]

janie when I said I dont know what youre talking about I wasnt talking about the warriors gate stuff I was talking about what you wrote after, which is why I omitted the warriors gate comments you made when I posted youre quote.

Romana? Mirrors? Grok?

Romana was the Doctor's companion in Warrior's Gate. She was a Time Lady, from Gallifrey like the Doctor, and in that episode (her last) she was in top form. Of all the Doctor's companions, she was the strongest character. I was reminded of her because of the Time Girl, but also because of how strong River is. I would totally squee if the Time Girl turned out to beRomana's daughter!

That episode also included a lot of mirrors, which Time Sensitives can use as portals to different points in the timeline. In The Impossible Astronaut, Amy sees the Silent kill joy in the White House bathroom surrounded by mirrors, including a free-standing full-length mirror... and in Day of the Moon, the Time Girl Astronaut appears to her at Graystark in the creepy girl's room and the shot is constructed such that the Astronaut appears simultaneously in a free-standing full-length mirror.

Mind you, I'm not saying that the mirrors this season harken back to Warrior's Gate or how they were used there. I think they're more thematic. That shot of the Time Girl Astronaut in the mirror might represent the duality of the situation, that she may or may not be Amy's daughter... and maybe in other ways. Did the bedroom door really have a hatch with that other woman in there? Is Amy pregnant or not?

In quantum physics, there's an experiment called Schroedinger's Cat, where there's a cat in a box with a poison pill, and a quantum event determines whether the poison will be released or not. Until we open the box and look inside, the cat is simultaneously alive and dead from a quantum perspective. I think Who is playing along these lines, showing us two contradictory realities which are both true for the time being, until "the box" is opened and the truth is revealed to us and the characters.

"Grok" is a term invented by Robert Heinlein in his book Stranger in a Strange Land. Michael Valentine, a human raised by Martians and brought back to Earth when he reaches adulthood, has a very different perspective from typical Earthlings. He sees things others don't, and has powers to manipulate reality that are god-like. The ability to "see" things both objectively and subjectively, in their entire entirety, is what it means to "grok" something.

Interestingly, Stranger in a Strange Land inspired a bunch of Ayn Rand fans back in the sixties to start their own religion. They called it The Church of All Worlds. It was a science-fiction religion. They had required texts from SF, philosophy, ecology, and so on. Ironically, it was not a capitalist religion; they would have horrified Rand with their eco-friendliness and their goddess orientation. (A more Rand-like religion would by Scientology, also inspired by a science-fiction, and now enormously wealthy, while CAW has gone bankrupt at least three times now.)



What?! How the hell did I miss that? What part of the episode did he say it?

It's after the Tardis lands in Florida. Canton is still babbling about it being bigger on the inside, and the Doctor is chiding Rory for not explaining the space-travel bit. They leave the office and head into the warehouse and that's when the Doctor says, "Brave heart, Canton."

Wouldn't Canton make an awesome companion? Oh, how about a Season 7 with River and Canton as companions to the Doctor?

Nah, just River. ;)

[pc_extremist]

I enjoyed it, but personally I just wonder whether the show is getting a little too complex for its own good.

Loved the Nixon references, though - very witty.

I agree with you on it getting a little too complex for its own good. I think the balance that RTD struck between complexity and action was just right to the point that its really what's brought Doctor Who to new hights of success. Now SM is riding on the coattails of that success, and while I think he's doing a nice job, his writing style is very different. He crammed a lot into 13 episodes last season. I'm gonna have to go back and watch the episode again like I had to do with several episodes last season to catch the stuff I think I missed this time around, but I must say that I wasn't expecting what happened to that little girl at the very end. I watched that scene over and over again because it was so awesome. Can't wait to find out if she's the girl in the same photograph as Amy.

[Superboy-Prime]

I kinda miss those rtd epic worldwide alien invasion stories.

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[ReevesSuperman]

Part of the reason, sci-fi fans are fickle is they have seen good shows die early deaths and terrible shows go on forever. It has also something to do with the fact that it is a niche audience, they would rather it be kept that away. A lot like a spoiled child who has a favorite set of toys, he rarely ever lets other kids play with it and when he does, he either wants to get rid of the toy after the other kid is done playing with it or tells them they are playing with it wrong.

There is also the law of averages. No matter how many times you go up to the plate, sooner or later you will strike out. Moffat has been fairly lucky that he has hit home runs, yet every writer its a strikes out when writing for a character for a period of time. Alan Moore's Blackbook League book is terrible, Arthur Conan Doyle admits phoning it in the later Sherlock Holmes' books, Episode I and II of Star Wars, the last seasons of Lost and BattleStar Galatica,Buffy comics, B5: Legend of the Rangers and Star Trek: Voyager. All were lower quality then what came before. Sci fi fans can usually tell that and even if its just ok, they become a sheep mind. Where if one person points out the flaws, everyone else will jump on the bandwagon. They are fickle for a lot of reasons some of them good reasons and other reasons are just insane. Yet, they are the ones who can make and break shows more so then the networks. This season seems to be setting up for something really great or a giant letdown ultimitaly it will be the fans who decided and not anyone else.

[Superboy-Prime]

Please dont lump in bsg with those shows.

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[ReevesSuperman]

Dude, Starbuck is an angel, that was riddiculous as was everyone being a cylon. That last season was all about not having any idea where to go after the New Caprica storyline. Baltar's trial was a travesty. I am not a big BSG fan, but my friend is and he even agrees they were lost in the wilderness til the end.

[Superboy-Prime]

She wasnt an angel if you want to call someone an angel you think of head 6 and head baltar. I liked baltars trial cause everything apollo said was true.

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[janie]

Starbuck (http://jubal.westnet.com/hyperdiscordia/starbucks_pebbles.html) was a goddess.

[ReevesSuperman]

Angel, Goddess, whatever, it was riddiculous.

[ginnyfan]

Wow! I've enjoyed reading all the speculation about the little girl at the end of the episode.

I really enjoyed it. It was pretty confusing but more enjoyable than confusing so... I'm just along for the ride.

So Amy IS pregnant. The little girl regenerates like a Time Lord. I was thinking about that other Doctor that came from the Doctor's hand, but he can't regenerate. I did think about Jenny but... I only watched most of the past episodes of New Doctor Who once so... I'm just going to have to wait and see.

I almost died when Amy looked up and the Silence were all hanging like bats from the ceiling. SUPER CREEPY. But then nothing happened and so they were a lot less scary after that. I think the Silence went too long without zapping anyone else. It makes me wonder why he killed the poor lady in the bathroom.

I also think they could have played up the creepiness of the Silence. That... the little sounds around you... when you're alone are THEM. But you forget after you see them. I was thrilled when they showed clips from series five of the Doctor (and others) talking about the silence. What's that about?

It's getting to the point where main characters dying is anti-climatic. I think they are overdoing the dying a bit. I still really enjoyed the reversal when they were all in the weird cube prison thing.

River Song's last kiss. <3 The Doctor's beard! :D

So many questions! What was Amy's picture doing in the orphanage? Was that baby the little girl?

[Superboy-Prime]

And the silence take forever to shoot aswell

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[ginnyfan]

Yes they do. LOL! It's a good thing their victims are usually paralyzed by horror and fear because of those weird facial expressions the Silence make before they shoot. I thought it was going to suck out bathroom lady's soul or something.

[janie]

I liked the covert nods to the Doctor's mythology at the beginning of TIA. First, we have the Doctor painted as a god, and what a fine looking god he is, indeed. He emerges like a newborn from under the skirts of the artist.

Next, we see him turning things upside-down during the war, which is reflected with his upside-down bit in the Tardis later.

Finally, he shows up in the Laurel and Hardy film Flying Deuces, wearing a fez, of course. That film has a framing conceit of reincarnation, something the Doctor knows only too well. Oliver Hardy wanted to come back as a horse, while Stan Laurel wanted to come back as himself.

[quinny06]

Considering all the mysteries set up in this episode, and Steven Moffat's comments in his Production Notes column about not wanting spoilers to get out, I have a question.

Won't shooting for the next series begin around July/August, starting with the Christmas Special, when the show is on its "mid-season break"? Won't the inevitable set pictures from that kind of give away the end of the series, i.e. who lives, who dies, etc.?

[janie]

They can always stage fake set pictures and the like, as well as filming fake scenes -- especially multiple takes with different people dying, if it comes to that. LOST got very good at building a repertoire of foilers.

[Tekken Force]

Just seen the description for The Rebel Flesh. God, yet ANOTHER Earth-bound story. Yes Utah was awesome, but how about visiting another planet for a change.

[ChrisB85]

Now I realy wonder who the girl is and hope we see more of her very soon. I would realy hate it if we have to wait weeks before learning at least a bit more about her. On that note, does anyone think it possible shes Jenny from "The Doctors Daughter"? I mean the fact that she´s so young this time could just be because she regenerated into a younger body before?


They can always stage fake set pictures and the like, as well as filming fake scenes -- especially multiple takes with different people dying, if it comes to that. LOST got very good at building a repertoire of foilers.
That practice isn´t only known in the filming media, I think I remember reading something about 3 or 4 different endings for Harry Potter that have been written so no one reading them before the final print could leak anything without a) spreading false information and b) risking getting caught because only 1 or 2 people read this spezific ending.

[Superboy-Prime]

Now I realy wonder who the girl is and hope we see more of her very soon. I would realy hate it if we have to wait weeks before learning at least a bit more about her. On that note, does anyone think it possible shes Jenny from "The Doctors Daughter"? I mean the fact that she´s so young this time could just be because she regenerated into a younger body before?


That practice isn´t only known in the filming media, I think I remember reading something about 3 or 4 different endings for Harry Potter that have been written so no one reading them before the final print could leak anything without a) spreading false information and b) risking getting caught because only 1 or 2 people read this spezific ending.

How could it be jenny, shes way in the future and doesnt regenerate like the doctor. Remember she has already died before and is not a child. Its kinda ridiculous to think a grown woman would regenerate into a child, whats the basis for rhis theory anyway it makes no sense

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[janie]

How could it be jenny, shes way in the future and doesnt regenerate like the doctor. Remember she has already died before and is not a child. Its kinda ridiculous to think a grown woman would regenerate into a child, whats the basis for rhis theory anyway it makes no sense

Maybe the Doctor is in a very large time loop, set up by the Time Lords to make him think that they are trapped when actually he is trapped. In this Other Loop, Time-Lords from their reality are going backwards in the Doctor's. That's why River is meeting the Doctor back to front, along the opposite trajectory, and it's why Jenny is regenerating younger and younger.

Well, it's a theory, didn't say it was a good one.

Didn't the Doctor say he hates repeats?

[lorenzovanmatterhorn]

When's the last time you saw a heroic depiction of Richard Nixon?http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/images/smilies/eek.gif (although Watergate aside he did quite a lot of good things). Mark Shepherd equally good as he was on Dollhouse and BSG

Seems a little ruthless of the Doc to have everyone kill the silence on sight?

Now, do we suspect there's some form of link between Ben and Glory?