Doctor Who #5.4 "The Time of Angels"

[KSiteTV]

British fans count down to the episode's airing, discuss it LIVE here, and then let this be the episode thread once it has aired!

Here are some extras:

<a href="http://www.ksitetv.com/doctor-who-the-time-of-angels-preview-images/" target="all">Preview Images</a>
<a href="http://www.ksitetv.com/doctor-who-the-time-of-angels-promo/" target="all">Preview Trailer</a>
<a href="http://www.ksitetv.com/doctor-who-official-descriptions-for-three-upcoming-episodes/" target="all">Official BBC Description</a>
<a href="http://www.tinyurl.com/ksitedw" target="all"><em>Doctor Who</em> at KSiteTV</a>

[Murzo]

Very intense ep and much improved over last week. I liked the fact that there was less of a reliance on CGI, sometimes all it takes to create a bit of atmosphere is a corridor and some good lighting. I also felt there was a lot of good character progression, although I feel that the relationship between the Amy and Doctor seems to have progressed further than what we've actually seen on screen.

Overall though, this was probably my favorite ep of the season and I'm looking forward to the next part.

10/10

[quinny06]

"Oh, are you all Mr Grumpy Face today?" - Best line EVER.

Oh, Amy Pond. I fall more and more in love with you each week.

Anyway, the actual episode was miles better than last week. The pre-titles scene was a really great way to set up the episode, and I loved the Doctor running through the museum "Wrong! Wrong! Ooh, that's one of mine!" Steven Moffat's episodes always have outstanding one-liners.

The Weeping Angels displayed some new abilties, proving how much we just don't know about them, however many times you've watched Blink. Not as scary as last time, I didn't jump like I did when I first watched Blink but still very creepy. The way they were talking through Bob's voice was disturbing, as was what they were doing to Amy.

Thing is, there's not much else to talk about because not much else happened. As you would expect with the first part of a two-parter, this was mostly setting up next week's episode, which from the trailer looks thrilling.

Also, Old High Gallifreyian! The Five Doctors FTW!


although I feel that the relationship between the Amy and Doctor seems to have progressed further than what we've actually seen on screen.

Yeah, that was confusing. It was implied this was her first trip to another planet, but she said "You never let people call you Sir." like they'd been together for a while.

[El Knappos]

Awesome Episode, very tight, quick and witty. Beyond that it was scary too.

I felt very slow on not picking up on the two heads thing. The Doctor missing out on it also seemed a bit off but this could be because RTDs Doctors were very much flawless in this respect. This humanises (for lack of a better term) the Doctor, so swept up in the present danger was he that he failed to notice something vital.

Matt Smith is a fantastic Doctor (and I'm just not saying that because I grew up in the same town). There was something of the eccentric missing from the Eccelston and Tennant Doctors that is very much at the fore with Smith. That this was his first episode (filmed) shows his talent is amazing. I really do hope he has a good, long run in order to explore this some more.

I want to read River's diary, if only to know the last two faces of the Doctor (Although I don't think they will stop at 13, there will be some way to extend the regeneration cycle. I mean, how many has The Master had?!). I didn't care for her in her previous appearance but something in the interaction with Smith's Doctor changed that a bit this time. She seemed less annoying.

Amy's story in this episode was enjoyable and loved her reaction to the Doctor biting her.

The cliffhanger was described as daringly different in one review/preview I read and I cannot disagree at all. Cliffhanger's in general can be very formulaic and tiring when they always end on a moment of incredible danger/jeopardy that the characters can never get out of and they're looking scared/hopeless/lost etc. This ended with the way out about to be explained, rather than convolutely being revealed in the first 45 seconds of the second part. I could not believe that that was the end and wanted this to continue, which is, after all what a cliffhanger was supposed to do.

The next week trail looked brilliant also. I wonder if the Doctor will reveal to River that he watched her die?

[KSiteTV]

I've seen it twice now and I'm still not sure what to think.

River Song offers some interesting possibilities but I can't decide if I like her character or if I'm annoyed by her. I'll give her more time. I also don't know if we needed to see the Weeping Angels again, but that's another where I'll "wait and see."

I LOVE the grumpy Doctor though. There was a point where he just got all huffy and reminded me so much of Patrick Troughton. Matt Smith has really made the role his own.

I also liked the pacing in this one... it was very classic Doctor Who.

Can't wait to see more.

[quinny06]

You know, Craig, I was surprised when talking to other Who fans recently to find that there are rather a lot of people who are on the fence about River. I, on the other, find her facinating. She never misses an opportunity to remind the Doctor that she knows more than he does, which I find funny. If she is his wife (and I'm starting to think, with Moffat, it just can't be that simple) I think she's a good fit for him.

What I didn't like though, was the revelation that the iconic TARDIS noise is just because the Doctor leaves the brakes on. Hang on, though, we've heard other Time Lord's TARDISes make that noise, did they all have the breaks on too? :confused: I feel another "Morbius Doctors/8th Doctor half-human comment" situation approaching.

[MrZeppo]

I have to admit I liked the episode so far, however I will reserve final judgement until I see the second part.

Re: The Weeping Angels

Can I mention how happy I am to see the Angels back again? I thought they were a brilliant idea and I am enjoying their return. The last time we really didn't see the Doctor face them one on one because "Blink" was a Doctor-lite episode. However I have to agree with Craig and wonder how sustainable they are as recurring villians. I mean, if there is another episode where the Doctor is being chased by the Angels, would it really be interesting after all of this?

There were some things I didn't like. Truth be told, I wasn't a fan of "Angel Bob". It reminded me too much of the gimmick they used in "Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead" where the Vashta Narada took the expedition's voices. And now once again the villian is stealing human voices... Having River Song in the episode didn't help me avoid the comparison. It just served as a reminder they did this before, in a way I think was much more successful too.

A part of me also wonders why they don't break the statues. It may not stop them, they could just reform for all I know, but that would at least slow them down.


Re: River Song

Now this is a bit hard to admit, but I am a fan of the character. Initially when the character was first introduced I wasn't really a fan. It's a bit unusual for the Doctor to be at a disadvantage like this. He's usually the one with all the knowledge and to see the tables turned on him is hard.

However I will admit I find the River/Doctor story rather facinating. It's interesting to have him meet people in a more non-traditional sense, which is truly reflective of his life as a time traveler. And an interesting point to make is eventually their roles will be reversed. The Doctor will eventually encounter her at a point that is early in her relative timeline, the shoe will be on the other foot, and it will be her turn to be at a disadvantage.

The plothole I didn't like was when River indicated she has pictures of all the Doctor's faces. If that's the case, then why didn't she immediately recognize the Doctor in his 10th incarnation in "Silence in the Library"? Shouldn't she have immediately recognized this was the earliest incarnation she's seen, rather then figuring that out later?

The Moffat indicated that River isn't what people assume she is, the Doctor's "wife". It makes me wonder who she is in relation to the Doctor. The extent of their dealings take place in the 51st century, but we don't know where she is from. She may not even be from the 51st century, at that point time travel was possible for human, this is the same time-period that Jack Harkness and his Time Agency came from.

A part of me wonders if she is an older version of "Jenny", the Time Lady that was created in "The Doctor's Daughter". Jenny was another character created by the Moffat and he requested she be kept alive as he has plans for her. However a bigger part of me doesn't like this idea given how borderline flirtatious River seems with the Doctor.

[quinny06]

A part of me wonders if she is an older version of "Jenny", the Time Lady that was created in "The Doctor's Daughter". Jenny was another character created by the Moffat and he requested she be kept alive as he has plans for her. However a bigger part of me doesn't like this idea given how borderline flirtatious River seems with the Doctor.

I don't think Jenny was Moffat's creation. He didn't write that episode, Stephen Greenhorn did, and I think that actual idea for the episode came from RTD based on a comment Greenhorn had made in Doctor Who Magazine. And I don't think Moffat requested she be kept alive, as much as he suggested it.

I think there's been far too much flirting for River to be an older Jenny. If she is, then this line becomes a bit disturbing:

The Doctor: Where'd you get handcuffs from anyway?
River: (smiling) Spoilers.

[newbaggy]

I don't think Jenny was Moffat's creation. He didn't write that episode, Stephen Greenhorn did, and I think that actual idea for the episode came from RTD based on a comment Greenhorn had made in Doctor Who Magazine. And I don't think Moffat requested she be kept alive, as much as he suggested it.

I think there's been far too much flirting for River to be an older Jenny. If she is, then this line becomes a bit disturbing:

The Doctor: Where'd you get handcuffs from anyway?
River: (smiling) Spoilers.

Steven Moffat has explained that he didn't ask for Jenny to be saved because he wanted to use the character later. He just did not like the idea of Jenny being killed-off because he saw it as the sort of cliche in which Star Trek often indulged - introduce a "one-off" character that becomes close to one of the regulars (so would need to become a regular or semi-regular themselves), then kill them at the end of the episode so that they didn't have to be brought back. It was simply a casual comment about the story to RTD, and RTD happened to agree with Moffat's opinion.

----- Added 11 Minutes later -----



The plothole I didn't like was when River indicated she has pictures of all the Doctor's faces. If that's the case, then why didn't she immediately recognize the Doctor in his 10th incarnation in "Silence in the Library"? Shouldn't she have immediately recognized this was the earliest incarnation she's seen, rather then figuring that out later?


I don't think that it is the plothole that you think it is. River might have her "spotters guide" of all the Doctor's faces, but she doesn't necessarily know in which order they come in either his timestream or hers. In Silence in the Library, she walks straight up to the Doctor and says "Hello, Sweetie!", so she clearly recognises him. But she then has to ask him if he remembers certain incidents from her diary in order to work out if this is an earlier or later incarnation to "her Doctor", a tactic that she repeats in The Time of Angels. Funnily enough, the Doctor doesn't ask the same sort of questions of River, so mistakenly introduces her to Amy as "Professor River Song" ("I'm going to be a professor!").

[MrZeppo]

Ah, thanks for the clarification newbaggy. I was actually watched the episode again after I posted that and caught that bit. It's funny how much you can miss even as a rabid fan like myself. :)

Re: River Song being Jenny theory

I'm not personally a huge supporter of this or anything, it was just an thought that passed through my head. Let's just say I can see them messing with our heads like this. I can see them playing off the comments River makes that seem flirtatious as just being coy since she has the advantage over the Doctor, with the writers just accusing us of having dirty minds. Even the sweetie comments could later be played off as some inside joke between the two.

But on the flip side I can punch a bunch of holes into the theory too. I don't think we'll learn all of River's secrets for some time, I have a feeling she's supposed to be around for some time (with a younger actress being casted for younger incarnations of her, no offense to Alex who I think is lovely.), across multiple incarnations of the Doctor.

[quinny06]

The BBC has had to issue an apology about the cartoon Graham Norton that appeared at the end of this episode, after over a thousand people complained.

I didn't even notice it, too wrapped up in the Doctor's awesome speech (even though I'd heard it a bazillion times in the trailers). In fact, I didn't think it had shown up in my part of the country till I checked my recording and discovered it had.

I can understand how it could take people completely out of the moment though. Did anyone else notice it? And does Graham Norton have it in for Doctor Who? This is the second time he's invaded an episode, after all.

[HalJordan4184]

I liked it. I'm loving the River Song dynamic, where neither one of them knows where the other is in terms of their relationship. The Doctor knows that eventually someday River will be someone in whom he has explicit trust, and presumably, some form of very intense, deep relationship. Depending on the time he ends up in though, this River has no idea what the Doctor she is meeting has done with her. It's perfect for a Time Lord, who spends his time going through the Wibbly Wobbly Timey Wimey Stuff.

I also like the Doctor being kind of distant with River, almost to spite what he knows of the future.

As far as the episode goes, I thought it was pretty good. I want to know more of the Angels, though I will agree that I hope they don't become an overused plot device.

[i_need_a_new_username]

God even I figured out the statues before them.

>=(

^^ Mr. Grumpy Face

;)

Sonic(ked?) River.

[ReevesSuperman]

I watched Blink before it and I have to say I am not that in love with Blink as everyone else is. I found the girl annoying and was kinda hoping she would die, but it was at least an interesting villain. The episode was great in the way it was filmed also the Doctor not having a lot of scenes. I can't say I liked this episode better then Blink though. I loath the River Song character due to the actress, she was terrible in ER and really over the top in this role. I am finding Amy less fun in this episode then any other. I understand she is in love with the Doctor, but we have down this road one too many times already. The other problem is making the Angels' eyes have this new power. I remember in Blink the other characters seem to look in the Angel's eyes to have nothing happen. There seemed to be a lot going on here with just taking it at face value. I am curious to see what the next episode brings, but I am hoping there is something more with the crack in time. The Sarah Jane episode should be added to the BBCA line-up.
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[Captain_Rickman]

Well I voted 10 for this episode because, the Weeping Angels creep me out more than any other monster. Even knowing what to expect, they still creeped me out. A lot. It was *urgently looks for a word other than creepy* erm, quite scary, how the image of the Angel started to become the thing itself.
I *love* the Mister Grumpyface lines, and, the whole thing in the museum. The only thing that I didnt like about River Song like has been said already in this thread, is the idea that the cool Tardis sound that everyone listens for in hopes, is because the Doctor leaves the brake on? Hmmm ...
I didnt pick up on the statues with one head thing, I was too busy trying to spot the Angel *doh*
Erm, no I didnt spot the Graham Norton thing? Gah ... I blame it on the Angels again lol. I guess I need to go watch the DVD again.