#2.2 "Instinct"

[KSiteTV]

Count down to the episode's airing and discuss it LIVE here!

ECHO'S MATERNAL INSTINCTS KICK INTO OVERDRIVE ON "DOLLHOUSE" FRIDAY, OCTOBER 2, ON FOX

When Echo is imprinted as a mother with a newborn baby, she takes too strongly to motherhood as a result of Topher's modifications. Meanwhile, Adelle pays November a visit, and Perrin ramps up his investigation into the Rossum Corporation in the "Instinct" episode of DOLLHOUSE airing Friday, Oct. 2 (9:00-10:00 PM ET/PT) on FOX. (DOL-203) (TV-14 L, V)

Cast: Eliza Dushku as Echo; Tahmoh Penikett as Paul Ballard; Olivia Williams as Adelle DeWitt; Harry Lennix as Boyd Langton; Fran Kranz as Topher Brink; Enver Gjokaj as Victor; Dichen Lachman as Sierra

Guest Cast: Miracle Laurie as November/Madeline; Alexis Denisof as Senator Daniel Perrin; Kristoffer Polaha as Nate Jordan; Stacey Scowley as Cindy Perrin

[nicmar]

This looks like your typical engagement of the week show, I really do think that Dollhouse needs to dispense with the slow burn, it took them half of last year to find their feet, and the did that by adding mythology to theses types of shows. This is one looks like hey Echo goes crazy and kills the client. Granted he is a child murder but that still does not progress the overall story ahead.

[Hopefulsuicide]

The sneek peeks for this one make it seem a lot better than I thought it was gonna be! Eliza's acting in one of the scenes is top notch!

[KSiteTV]

So... don't all rush to post about this episode. Ack. If this wasn't tied to the World of Joss Whedon forum, I think Dollhouse would lose its forum-section privileges. Ouch.

[Hopefulsuicide]

In fairness, everyone's just too busy posting about the newest Smallville episode :lol:

I'll be back to post about it later :p

[KSiteTV]

In fairness, everyone's just too busy posting about the newest Smallville episode :lol:

That never stopped anyone from posting about Supernatural back when they were all on the same night. :(

[CallMeClark]

I liked the episode a lot. :) Eliza is really showing her acting chops lately.

It was nice to see Mellie again. It was interesting that they kept that out of the promos. I wonder if a new Novemeber doll will pop up soon? Anyway, I liked the episode overall.

I kind of feel bad for Echo/Caroline. She never really gets wiped clean each time so she has flashes all the time, I am assuming...

[nicmar]

I was not a big fan of this episode, there were now some intresting bits and all, Like Topher being able to change the body on the phyical level was both cool and a little disturbing. Also the thing with the Senator is also intresting and hopefully will begin to pick up speed. The final seen was also a nice coda to the show and we are finally seeing Echo and Ballard build some chemistry.

Unfortunatly the bulk of the show was your standard Engagement of the week, It always baffels me that people go the the Dollhouse knowing that they program people's brains but still end up thinking that the actives are just pretending. Also we get no follow up with Boyd, or Victor and Siera. Seeing Mellie again was nice but Ballard does the same thing the client does were he can't tell there is a difference between the person she was before the Dollhouse and the person he knew.

The overprotective mother plot was fine as far as it goes but you would think that the Dollhouse would be better at their job than to just park the van were Echo can see it. Then take her friend into a black van in plain sight. Also the sceen were Echo is talking to the car, one second and then can drive the next was silly, also it is contradicory to the plot I can understand that the Maternial instinct survived the wipe but how did she know were the guy lived? This was not the worst episode ever but it was another case of Dollhouse being two steps foward one step back.

Next week looks good though I like that they are introducing the remote wipe which as we know is one of the biggest factors in the comming apocalypse.

[Vergon6]

Sorry for not posting live. I was out with friends yesterday. So I missed the live broadcast. I just watched the episode tonight (from my DVR). It was pretty good. It's interesting that Echo is continuing to retain memories or feelings. Last week I wasn't sure if that part with Paul at then end was all a dream, now I know it wasn't. The promo for this episode were misleading, but I imagine that was on purpose.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I gave it an 8.

In terms of the plot, it was average. About the same as some of the more forgettable episodes from last season. There were interesting bits, but i wasn't really being compelled to watch more.

The only reason it doesn't get a 7 from me, is that I think it was some of Eliza's best acting on the show. But then I suppose we learned from Faith that Eliza can play a tormented screaming women :lol:

I love Alexis in this, and can't wait to see what's going to happen with his storyline. I'm thinking it'll be Alpha related.

Is anyone else just kinda watching episode by episode waiting for the end of the series? Cause while I am sure that's gonna be good, the rest is just like someone stuttering... just spit it out already will you?!

[nicmar]

I gave it an 8.

In terms of the plot, it was average. About the same as some of the more forgettable episodes from last season. There were interesting bits, but i wasn't really being compelled to watch more.

The only reason it doesn't get a 7 from me, is that I think it was some of Eliza's best acting on the show. But then I suppose we learned from Faith that Eliza can play a tormented screaming women :lol:

I love Alexis in this, and can't wait to see what's going to happen with his storyline. I'm thinking it'll be Alpha related.

Is anyone else just kinda watching episode by episode waiting for the end of the series? Cause while I am sure that's gonna be good, the rest is just like someone stuttering... just spit it out already will you?!

Yeah I do feel that way Epitath 1 gave us so many big Ideas and great moments I thought that is were the show is heading an it will be great. But as I said in my earlier posts the slow burn is killing this show, Honestly the pacing is bad it literly took us until season 2 to confirm that Echo retains any part of her other personalities. The show has also lost Amy Acker who's charcter was really the only one that made any signfiigant progress. Ballard still does not seem to have a clearly defined role. The story with the Senator seem like a retread of Ballard last year he want's to take down the dollhouse and some one is feeding him infromation.

The apocalypse was such a big thing a it was scary but the show has not layed the roots for it aside from the idea of introducing remote wipes next week we still don't know who corupted the technology, also and this has been reported by several sources Felecia Day has sceens in the first show and they were cut. Probaby most important is that ratings are horrid Dollhouse will not last past the ordered 13 shows and the only reason all 13 will air is that it is on Friday night. I fell like Joss is smart enough to know that the writing is on the wall he should start moving the show towards his end game because otherwise we will never see it.

[Hopefulsuicide]

It's just such a shame, because so much more could be done with this show, but it's like because the writers have accepted that they won't get more than 13 episodes, instead of rushing the more complicated story they had planned, they are going to tell lots of little stories instead...

But it's the little stories that are loosing the interest, of even the most die hard of us Joss fans... i'm sorry, but we don't see Eliza as the biggest priority in the world. There are many very interesting characters on the show, who's back stories have barely even remotely been explored. All this focus on all the different things they are making Echo do, and no attempt at showing who Victor or Sierra or Boyd or Topher or Adele or Whiskey where before they became part of the Dollhouse.

At least we got a little bit of Madeline's story, and i'm going to miss her (doesn't she have a lovely voice :)) if they don't bring her back in somehow (which i recon they probably will).

[nicmar]

It's just such a shame, because so much more could be done with this show, but it's like because the writers have accepted that they won't get more than 13 episodes, instead of rushing the more complicated story they had planned, they are going to tell lots of little stories instead...

But it's the little stories that are loosing the interest, of even the most die hard of us Joss fans... i'm sorry, but we don't see Eliza as the biggest priority in the world. There are many very interesting characters on the show, who's back stories have barely even remotely been explored. All this focus on all the different things they are making Echo do, and no attempt at showing who Victor or Sierra or Boyd or Topher or Adele or Whiskey where before they became part of the Dollhouse.

At least we got a little bit of Madeline's story, and i'm going to miss her (doesn't she have a lovely voice :)) if they don't bring her back in somehow (which i recon they probably will).

I agree I honestly Joss has alaways worked best as a ensamble writer, he did introduce intresting elements to the other charcters but has made no real progress in fleshing them out. I am at the point were I just don't care about the engagement of the week any more, for three reason first I may catch flack for this but I don't care Eliza is not the best actress in the world and giveing her a showcase to the exclusion of the other charcters is a mistake. She plays tough chick well always has everything else is very hit or miss. The other problem with this that with out a constant emotional anchor the show suffers, we don't have anyone to invest ourselves in week in and week out. Finally the engagements themselves are getting sillier, last week how long did it take Echo to get the arms dealer to marry her a week a month 6 months and by the same token how long was Echo going to raise the baby forever? in addition to the fact that they used a second active just to give her a fake friend.

At this point Echo need to become Echo/Caroline now we need to know that she is the same person underneath, also any subplot involving the rest of the Dollhouse needs to be moving to the events of Epitath 1 ot as you say even the most loyal fans will lose intrest.

[actaeon]

I thought it was brilliant.

An engagement gone horribly wrong... and it was all tightly plotted and believable. I was engaged right from the beginning of the episode. Echo, with a baby? WTF!? The intimacy that this implies... it's shocking... It's one thing to have an active sleeping with a guy, but this is just so above and beyond! This show is beyond daring, it's outrageous... and in a good way!

I found surprise after surprise, and it was all finely honed organic storytelling. The father's motivations for engaging the dollhouse made complete sense... in an off the wall, bizarre way. He couldn't bond with the infant himself. He loved the child, wanted it to have that bond.

Creepy Topher, talking with Ballard about how cool his imprint is... glands and stuff... OMG, turns out he's talking about lactation!! How creepy-bizarre is that?

Then it all going off the rails... Echo feeling threatened... which makes perfect sense from her POV. The intensity of ED's performace... stellar!

Adelle, dealing with the client... she is so cold, so rational, so... persuasive. In a way that's almost inhuman.

The father was great... he is being put through the emotional wringer... he seems so cold and distant, and then that final scene with him facing a knife-wielding Echo, talking her down, the gut-wrenching explanation, his vulnerability... Great!

Great performances all around, a tight plot full of surprises, fine dialogue, intense action sequences. Perfect 10.

[ReevesSuperman]

I gave it a 9 due to hinting towards bigger events and Alexis as the Senator is starting to get some ground underneath him. I don't think its Alpha that is behind the feeding of information, but someone else. I do think the show needs to move towards something. Last year, it was Ballard trying to find the Dollhouse while getting tripped up by the Dollhouse. This season is about Ballard and Echo trying to bring down the dollhouse from inside. With the ratings being what they are, Joss should really move this show further along to the apoclypse. I get the feeling Epitha 1 is the actual series finale while the rest is filling in the gaps.
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[Welling_is_pretty]

Hmmm, I had to give this one a 5. It wasn't bad but it wasn't great either.

I loved the stuff with Alexis (who else immediately thought "I wonder if Perrin's wife is a Doll?" I know I did!), though it's still so strange to hear him with that American Accent (I recently found out that's his real accent and the Brit one from Angel was a fake! I thought that was his real one so kudos to AD.).

The stuff with November seemed pretty pointless except for 2 things:
1.) It showed that even when you're done with the Dollhouse you can't fully escape it.
and 2.) It was a nice juxtiposition between the "sleeping" November and the "awake" Echo.

I like that Ballard is still trying to free Echo, just doing it from the inside now (Joss seems to have a thing for that theme!).

I also liked the idea of Echo's new "tweaks" overriding her "imprint". Even her handler stuff was malfunctioning. Nice touch!

Also, did anyone else think that Echo didn't fulfill her mission--she exceeded it? If she had kept to the mission what would have happened? (And how long was she supposed to be the kid's mother for?) Instead, she sparked real feelings for the kid from the father and shook him out his whatever. Not bad, Doll!

One thing I am really missing though is the other Dolls (though I loved Sierra as the best friend, cute!). The best episodes from Season 1 seemed to be a true ensemble and show everyone, not just Eliza and Tahmoh (and Fran). Looks like next week's should bring that back to us (and yay more Victor!).

Oh and I've just got to say that this:
"The human is like Van Halen. If you keep pulling out a single piece and keep replacing it, it just degenerates."
was so funny I had to pause my tivo, I was laughing so hard!


BTW, since when has Topher had trouble referring to himself as a genius?! :lol:

[kernel_thai]

I gave it a 6. More of the same.

For me, if I dont buy the premise I cant enjoy the show. The idea that this guy spent all that money (wasnt it established in S1 that its $1 million a pop?) on a fill-in mom for Jack just doesnt make sense. How long would she have had to fill this role??? (Nicmar get out of my mind!!!) Things must be slow at the ole DH if Sierra didnt have anything better to do than be available and in character night and day in case Echo needed to chat. The thing with the van was absurd. The last thing the super secret DH needs is to have a neighbor complain about a suspicious van parked day after day in front of that house.

Now even tho cause was dumb, I enjoyed effect. I liked Echo defending Jack but couldnt invest in it because I was still slapping my head with the tv guide because of the silly premise.

I like the senator plot line. I general enjoy any of Adele's scenes. I like spooky Topher much better than sympathetic Topher.




Also, did anyone else think that Echo didn't fulfill her mission--she exceeded it? If she had kept to the mission what would have happened? (And how long was she supposed to be the kid's mother for?) Instead, she sparked real feelings for the kid from the father and shook him out his whatever. Not bad, Doll!


Oh and I've just got to say that this:
"The human is like Van Halen. If you keep pulling out a single piece and keep replacing it, it just degenerates."
was so funny I had to pause my tivo, I was laughing so hard!


If the show been about using Echo to bring Jack and his father together it would have been a much smarter show. Unfortunately Jack and his dad were just props in another of the many glitchy Echo shows.

I did love the Van Halen reference, It was one of the few Joss type things in a very standard script. I wonder if JW does a final pass on these scripts.



I agree I honestly Joss has alaways worked best as a ensamble writer, he did introduce intresting elements to the other charcters but has made no real progress in fleshing them out. I am at the point were I just don't care about the engagement of the week any more, for three reason first I may catch flack for this but I don't care Eliza is not the best actress in the world and giveing her a showcase to the exclusion of the other charcters is a mistake. She plays tough chick well always has everything else is very hit or miss. The other problem with this that with out a constant emotional anchor the show suffers, we don't have anyone to invest ourselves in week in and week out. Finally the engagements themselves are getting sillier, last week how long did it take Echo to get the arms dealer to marry her a week a month 6 months and by the same token how long was Echo going to raise the baby forever? in addition to the fact that they used a second active just to give her a fake friend.

At this point Echo need to become Echo/Caroline now we need to know that she is the same person underneath, also any subplot involving the rest of the Dollhouse needs to be moving to the events of Epitath 1 ot as you say even the most loyal fans will lose intrest.

I agree a ton. This show needs a b-line to the road to oblivion. The whole show cries out for edgy yet the first two eps were very pedestrian. If they plan to spend six or seven eps setting up the big finishing arc I may be posting these comments in the forum morgue soon.

[Hopefulsuicide]

(who else immediately thought "I wonder if Perrin's wife is a Doll?" I know I did!)


:lol: me too!

And it is so confusing with the 'british' cast of Buffy. You got Spike, who played by an American, as is Wes. Anthony head is legitimately British though obviously, but whenever I hear James or Alexis speaking in their normal voices I find it weird.

[devilneedsaride]

I was pretty underwhelmed through most of this episode, but when it got to the end and she went completely psycho, it brought in all the Echo-developing-memories-and-a-sort-of-not-quite-personality, so it was super interesting from there. Also, I agree with everyone else that Eliza's acting was top-notch here. Honestly, up to this point I've been unimpressed with her on this show, but this was really good. I hope she keeps it up. I gave it a 7 for that.


:lol: me too!

And it is so confusing with the 'british' cast of Buffy. You got Spike, who played by an American, as is Wes. Anthony head is legitimately British though obviously, but whenever I hear James or Alexis speaking in their normal voices I find it weird.

I know, right? It was bothering me every time he spoke. I can handle James Marsters with an American accent, probably because he was also on Smallville and I had time to get used to it. With Alexis I kept wincing because it just sounded so wrong. I actually went so far as to look up his birthplace again even though I was already pretty sure he was American. I would have been so relieved if the weirdness I was hearing was a British actor doing an improper American accent. I hope I get used to it, cause I positively adore seeing him on the show. A small part of me can't help going "Wes and Fred! Wes and Fred! *boing*"

[Hopefulsuicide]

God I would love to see them in a scene together! :D

[Meteror Freak]

I'm glad to see people are liking Eliza's acting better, I think she has gotten better too.

I was hoping Madeline would return to the dollhouse and be november again! :(
otherwise, the epi was pefect.

[Xanderman]

Interesting posts and analyses everybody, I enjoyed reading everyone's posts and found myself nodding in agreement quite a bit. Just saw the episode now.


Anyway, here's my review. First, they really should have called this episode "The Hand That Rocks the Dollhouse". heh (Or The Doll That Rocks the Cradle. Either one.)

Topher can often be annoying but he does get funny lines sometimes, and the actor pulls them off well:

Topher: How do you feel about ventriloquism?
Madeline: So tempting. I'll have to pass.
Topher: It's a dying art…

Topher(to Ballard): I don't want to use the word genius, but I'd be okay if YOU wanted to.

Later:

Dewitt: Are we looking at another composite event, Mr. Brink?
Ballard: I don't think so. I think we're looking at a genius!
Topher: I'm not as comfy with you saying that as I thought I'd be… (I laughed out loud at this)

Question: Was the baby in the episode a doll too? Imprinted with the mind of, oh I don't know, a baby? :lol:

Topher: I really AM a genius! I imprinted a baby, with the mind of some other baby, and nobody could tell the difference! Because babies can't talk! Ha ha ha!

Ballard: Ugh, I wish "Tophers" couldn't talk…..

Topher: Sorry, Paul Jealous, I didn't catch that. I was too busy imagining what you were probably like as a baby, or rather will be like as a baby after I imprint you as one.

Ballard: Somebody dropped you when you were a baby, didn't they.

Boyd: Would you two stop saying 'baby'?

Topher: Oh, Boyd! You still on this show?

Boyd: Stop reminding me...

Topher: You were an angry baby, weren't you.


Speaking of Boyd, where the hell was he? I hope they're not gradually phasing him out in favor of Ballard. Doesn't seem right. Oh well, that's what he gets for not being related to a Whedon I guess. heh

Echo's "mom instincts" or love for her baby surviving the procedure was completely predictable of course. The old "a mother will do anything for her child" bit.

Were we supposed to care when Echo was going nuts in the police station about her fake baby being taken away from her fake ass? Lol it's not real (in more ways than one) so it's pointless drama… Anyway I liked this ep a lot more than last week's (the premiere). That one was just dumb. The writing was improved this week I felt, with most of the humor being actually pretty funny. Looks like the trick is to keep the script out of the hands of a Whedon, or a Whedon wife. ugh. heh j/k

Anyway, gave the ep a 7.


Parting thoughts...

Still finding it hard to care about anything this show does anymore after seeing Epitaph One and the apparent "end game" for the series. Hopefully that was not actually the definitive path they're heading. I mean this isn't TSCC, where knowing how things will basically end (Judgment Day etc) doesn't really impact the enjoyment of a "prequel" story (especially one involving time travel and alternate timelines and such in which some things can be changed, or perhaps rather with characters operating under that assumption). Knowing the ending here ahead of time however really hurts the series in my opinion, since for one thing it's not nearly as interesting as the Terminator story to begin with, and for another, there is no time travel here and so nothing can be changed. Making it all just a matter of filling in the gaps now, as ReevesSuperman said. Would much rather have had the surprise of not really knowing where any of this was definitely heading. But that ship has sailed.

[Welling_is_pretty]

:lol: me too!
I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was thinking she was a Doll. Someone pointed out that that would be very obvious and so Joss would not go there. But, Joss might think that we would think it would be too obvious and thus he would not go there, meaning he would totally go there! :lol:

*trying to outthink Joss and getting a headache from it*


but whenever I hear James or Alexis speaking in their normal voices I find it weird.
I know, right? When watching James as Brainiac I kept going "what the El?" ;)

[A Flawed Fashion]

Dollhouse nears greatness so often, but there is just something it lacks. I really felt that when watching this episode. There is so much potential in the things they bring up, but they end up being executed mediocrely (spell check be darned, I'm using mediocrely :) ).

The episode was ok and I was glad to see Mellie again. I really hope that this isn't the last we see of her.