Time Travel in the premiere episode(s)

[Xanderman]

So first they do a causal loop with Hiro going back in the time to find out he was the one who took the picture he had with him (ie. thus unknowingly fulfilling the past with time travel, Terminator style), which I liked. But then they have him outright change the timeline in the same time travel event? Inconsistent (and illogical) much Heroes?

And shouldn't many more events have been changed by virtue of the fact that best friend Ando now has his sister as a girlfriend? I mean surely Ando wouldn't have gone running around with Hiro as much he had been over the years, and their friendship wouldn't be exactly the same, if Ando had close ties to someone else, especially a significant other--lots of things would or at least should be different. And yet they both ended up at the same place together, doing the exact same thing they were before (ie. Hiro talking to Ando about going back to the carnival to prevent the fortune telling event in order to change his course in life and thus hopefully avoid dying). Anyway, I wish they'd just stick with causal loops/fulfilling the past with time travel (ie. a single universe set-up), like when they had Hiro go to ancient Japan to inadvertently become the very hero he read/heard stories about and worshipped when he was kid. A lot smarter and more satisfying, for me anyway.

[Seyee]

Ehh I TOTALLY agree with you on this I even wrote like a page long essay on time traveling since I like time-traveling movies/shows. But most time travel shows are very likely to have a loophole somewhere. It would seem like the creators want the viewers to look at their views on time traveling in a simple way lol and don't want us to consider the little details like what you mentioned by in reality they really are big. Their view on time traveling as of now is like if you change something VERY small (not harmful to anybody) then it wont change much but rather just change that particular thing although this defies what they were just talking about and showed in a previous episode about the butterfly effect.

I personally like DragonBall Z timetraveling method and journeyman. But yeah I gave up taking this time traveling serious when they messed it up having Peter scar going back to shoot Nathan and then Nathan comming back to life with NO EXPLANATION. If Peter scar can go back in the past of any time to kill someone why not have Hiro/Peter/Arthur and kill people before they become a hazard. Sure they can go way back in the past and kill baby sylar or they can just kill Sylar right before he gets his power and that would kill sylar so easily. Remember that badass first future hiro we saw? If he was so raw and really wanted to prevent the outbreak/explosion of NY why not just kill Ted as a baby or Sylar bam everything solved. Now I just watch the show as it is go with the flow with what the creators got to show for time-traveling. Cuz I swear it changes every season.

P.S. I think the loophole in Terminator is that how is it John C. OLDER than his dad assuming they are both in the same timeline and I asked everyone I know who watch the whole series they couldn't come up with an answer because in the end I ask them how was he even born in the FIRST place lol. I tried looking up for the answer to this question but couldn't find it.

[the highlander]

Could you kill a baby? One that hasn't done anything??? why not take him away and make yourself responsible for him? Easy way out. Why not teach him? I mean... Wow.. kill a kid.... We have Darth Vader here... Killing kids.

[Xanderman]

P.S. I think the loophole in Terminator is that how is it John C. OLDER than his dad assuming they are both in the same timeline and I asked everyone I know who watch the whole series they couldn't come up with an answer because in the end I ask them how was he even born in the FIRST place lol. I tried looking up for the answer to this question but couldn't find it.It seems like only yesterday that I talked about this stuff to death back when TSCC was still on...ha. Anyway, no loopholes in the original Terminator, not really. What we have in Terminator is a single universe/single timeline. Kyle shows up in the past and ends up fathering John, and these events in conjunction with Arnie coming back, lead to the very future that Skynet/Arnie was trying to change (a causal loop). It is possible for Kyle/Arnie to be in the past in the one and only timeline because one day they will leave the future. In other words, their appearance in 1984 has its counterpart event in the future (they disappear from the timeline then). Kyle's existence starts in the future but continues (and ends) in the past. In the future, John is older simply because he was born before his father in the timeline (the one and only timeline). What Skynet is trying to do is change the past, but Future John on the other hand acts to fulfill it. As he knows full well that Kyle is his father (or will be his father) before he sends him--it's why he befriends him and gives him the photo of his mother, etc. It's a causal loop, and is logically self sustaining. And it doesn't require multiple universes or timelines to make it work, thus making it a lot simpler or more elegant if you will. The original Terminator was very clever sci-fi. Later films and the tv series didn't exactly hold true to the original concept though, unfortunately.


I gave up taking this time traveling serious when they messed it up having Peter scar going back to shoot Nathan and then Nathan comming back to life with NO EXPLANATION. If Peter scar can go back in the past of any time to kill someone why not have Hiro/Peter/Arthur and kill people before they become a hazard. Sure they can go way back in the past and kill baby sylar or they can just kill Sylar right before he gets his power and that would kill sylar so easily. Remember that badass first future hiro we saw? If he was so raw and really wanted to prevent the outbreak/explosion of NY why not just kill Ted as a baby or Sylar bam everything solved. Now I just watch the show as it is go with the flow with what the creators got to show for time-traveling. Cuz I swear it changes every season.I hear ya, Andy. I hear ya.:cool: heh


Could you kill a baby? One that hasn't done anything??? why not take him away and make yourself responsible for him? Easy way out. Why not teach him? I mean... Wow.. kill a kid.... We have Darth Vader here... Killing kids.Or, he could kill as many kids as he wants, and then just like Darth Vader did, redeem himself completely in the end apparently simply by betraying someone even more evil than himself, and thus become a "good guy" again in the eyes of the all-knowing Force. lol For as we saw, it got Anakin a place in the afterlife right alongside Kermit the Yoda and Gentle Ben himself! Not too shabby if I do say so myself. The system works.:cool: heh j/k But seriously, I'm sure Andy was just using the baby-killing stuff as hypothetical situations to illustrate his points more strongly regarding the flawed nature of time travel (and/or the idiotic characters who command it) on Heroes. heh That said, he DID sort of go a bit overboard by repeating the baby-killing stuff twice, didn't he. lol But I forgive. heh

[kp1984]

Could you kill a baby? One that hasn't done anything??? why not take him away and make yourself responsible for him? Easy way out. Why not teach him? I mean... Wow.. kill a kid.... We have Darth Vader here... Killing kids.

Claire would kill him as a baby I bet.

[Seyee]

Hmm now that you explain it to me it actually make a lot more sense. But I'm still a little bit confused on how if there was ever a "first time" that means John C was never alive and so what they did was based on luck. Let's assume their was the first time travel that Kyle did so that means obviously John was never alive to sent him back it's Kyle who actually led the war until he traveled back in time to reproduce the first John C. Then from there on, it would make sense then how John C is always older than Kyle and the loops begins there going back and forth and now John C will be the person in charge. I guess I was just confuse on how that worked out since I dont think they ever explained it.

Oops and when I meant by luck was that it was more of a chance they took to save John C like how would they know he would led the war in the beginning of the first time he was reproduced.

[Xanderman]

They sort of do explain it with the ending, when they show Sarah getting a picture taken -- shown to be the very same picture that Kyle had with him. This reveals a causal loop. Meaning there is just one and only one timeline, one past, one future, etc. Nothing can be changed, everything is set in stone. There is no first, second, third timeline etc. There is just the timeline. Just one universe. A universe in which Kyle and Arnie are born/created in the future, but live out their final days in the past. And so there was never a timeline without John Connor growing up to become the leader of the resistance who defeats Skynet.

This means that Kyle was already in the past before he left the future--but he didn't know that, or what he would end up doing once he got there. Future John was fully aware though. Future Skynet on the other hand doesn't realize that Arnie was already in the past (and failed)--Skynet not knowing is part of the reason the loop exists (along with John knowing). Time travel thus only fulfills what already happened. Skynet fulfills the past unintentionally, due to it not seeing the whole picture. John on the other hand sees and understands it all, and fulfills it intentionally.

[shanemak]

Hiro should just go back to before he confronted Arthur on the rooftop years ago. Claire would still have the catalyst and Hiro would still be a master of time and space. Problem solved. The only problem with that I can think of is maybe Peter wouldn't kill Arthur because Arthur didn't have the catalyst and couldn't make super soliders.