Need to Say This/ What's the fuss? (merged)

[0Raiser]

clark and doomsday crashing into a geo thermal plant that exploded and doomsday died but clark lived then zod came in bad ass and is going to destroy the world..

[SuperTaz]

Long-time Smallville fan and "watcher" of the forums, but not a big poster. Most of my thoughts are usually fleshed out by other fans so I normally don't have a reason to post... until now.

I've been looking at some different threads going on and all the criticism about all the problems in "Doomsday" and how horrible this episode was, and I have some things I need to get off my chest.

IMHO, all the questions I've seen raised are valid questions - which is the purpose for a cliffhanger episode. The writers know that the show is going to take a break for a few months so they fill an episode with all kinds of situations that are not intended to be answered in that particular episode, but to keep the fans wondering how the characters are going to come out of this new mess. Sloppy writing? Maybe, but every drama series has employed this technique for a very long time - it is even used in classic and contemporary literature when an author knows that there is more to the story than what is in the book (C.S. Lewis used this in the Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkein used it with Lord of the Rings, J.K. Rowling used it with Harry Potter, etc.)

Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season. Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower? Why did the JLA disband? Where did Lois go? How could they kill off Jimmy? Who was that guy holding the orb? Why didn't Rokk help Clark more? Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

There are lots of questions and I hope the writers will be able to address all of them. Will there answers satisfy my curiousity? Probably not - because my expectations and their vision are not the same. It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.

[roccanater]

Long-time Smallville fan and "watcher" of the forums, but not a big poster. Most of my thoughts are usually fleshed out by other fans so I normally don't have a reason to post... until now.

I've been looking at some different threads going on and all the criticism about all the problems in "Doomsday" and how horrible this episode was, and I have some things I need to get off my chest.

IMHO, all the questions I've seen raised are valid questions - which is the purpose for a cliffhanger episode. The writers know that the show is going to take a break for a few months so they fill an episode with all kinds of situations that are not intended to be answered in that particular episode, but to keep the fans wondering how the characters are going to come out of this new mess. Sloppy writing? Maybe, but every drama series has employed this technique for a very long time - it is even used in classic and contemporary literature when an author knows that there is more to the story than what is in the book (C.S. Lewis used this in the Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkein used it with Lord of the Rings, J.K. Rowling used it with Harry Potter, etc.)

Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season. Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower? Why did the JLA disband? Where did Lois go? How could they kill off Jimmy? Who was that guy holding the orb? Why didn't Rokk help Clark more? Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

There are lots of questions and I hope the writers will be able to address all of them. Will there answers satisfy my curiousity? Probably not - because my expectations and their vision are not the same. It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.

I mostly agree. No hatred on my part. You have the right to post your thoughts. Nice post. I sure hope they answer these questions.

[27CDruid]

Sloppy writing? Maybe, but every drama series has employed this technique for a very long time - it is even used in classic and contemporary literature when an author knows that there is more to the story than what is in the book (C.S. Lewis used this in the Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkein used it with Lord of the Rings, J.K. Rowling used it with Harry Potter, etc.)

Please please don't compare the writers to the amazing JK Rowling. And probably not to Tolkein either.


Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season. Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower? Why did the JLA disband? Where did Lois go? How could they kill off Jimmy? Who was that guy holding the orb? Why didn't Rokk help Clark more? Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

You left out, "Why was the Doomsday fight the least exciting in the history of Smallville?"
Half of the freak of the week fights were better.

[ElVibo]

Please please don't compare the writers to the amazing JK Rowling. And probably not to Tolkein either.



You left out, "Why was the Doomsday fight the least exciting in the history of Smallville?"
Half of the freak of the week fights were better.

Your post suggests that you were way too invested into the Fight Scene aspect of the episode rather than the whole.

Pretty much everyone ended in doomsday.

[SuperTaz]

Please please don't compare the writers to the amazing JK Rowling. And probably not to Tolkein either.

I was not trying to compare the writing of Rowling, Tolkein, and Lewis to the writing of Smallville, I was simply stating that the technique of using cliffhangers has been around forever.

[eas]

Long-time Smallville fan and "watcher" of the forums, but not a big poster. Most of my thoughts are usually fleshed out by other fans so I normally don't have a reason to post... until now.

Welcome to the forum.


IMHO, all the questions I've seen raised are valid questions - which is the purpose for a cliffhanger episode.

Personally, I don't have an issue with this. SV's season finales have ALWAYS been cliff-hangers. The season finale is always Part 1 of a two part episode, with Part 2 airing as the season premiere in the following season. This is something all SV fans should be used to, at this point. In fact, anyone who watches TV should be used to this with 90% of the shows out there doing the same thing.

In fact, I would say that this was less of a cliff-hanger than most SV finales are. We are really only wondering about the fate of one character (Lois) -- other than that, everyone is either dead or just in mourning. We've got the whole "Zod/Tess" thing at the end, but - honestly - that made me laugh more than anything.


Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season.

I think what keeps real fans coming back, season after season, is good story-telling and characters that we care about. This finale, unfortunately, was 0 for 0 in that regard. Even Lois (who I adore) may not be enough for me to care by the time October rolls around.


Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower?

I think the direction of this episode was terrible and that it was the director's decision to film the scene that way. I'm in the minority here, but I don't think that it meant anything.


Why did the JLA disband?

Because, due to their actions, Jimmy was dead. They handled the Doomsday and Davis situation poorly. They didn't have unity, because Ollie and Clark couldn't work together & the Flash and Black Canary didn't know what to do. They all need a break.


Where did Lois go?

This is the only real cliff-hanger and I am curious to see what they come up with to fix this.


How could they kill off Jimmy?

By making him a fake Jimmy Olsen & saying that - in fact - he was the Iconic Jimmy Olsen's older brother the whole time.


Who was that guy holding the orb?

Zod or a follower of Zod.


Why didn't Rokk help Clark more?

He helped in the way that he could. They didn't have enough time for him to hang around and do more. He needed to go back and prepare the LOSH to meet DD when he go to the future.


Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

Because he was guilty. And Jimmy was a good guy who didn't deserve to die like that. And because Ollie is awesome.


It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers.

A writer may write only for himself/herself. But what makes a writer a good storyteller is that others want to read the story. If no one cares about what the writer is saying, then they are only writing for themselves. It's like a tree that falls in a forest. If a writer keeps on writing stories that only THEY want to read -- are still good writers? I don't think so.


I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.

No hatred from me. I'm glad you shared your thoughts.

[udtiger]

Good post.

I had no problems with the episode and, as has been noted in this and other threads, understood that this was a "cliffhanger" and that the unanswered questions were not just limited to Zod at the end (clearly SW [which makes sense if Zod had any role in Doomsday's "construction" by contributing his DNA {which could also explain why "split" Davis would still be evil and kill Jimmy}]).

Considering how many have complained of how far afield Smallville has gotten from the mythos, you would think that people would appreciate the fact that TPTB tried to "reset" some of the well-known canon (Jimmy, D-day underground, etc.). Instead, people are howling that returning to the known story is somehow a slap in the face of the fans.

I do think we will see much more of the CK vs. Doomsday fight in the S9 premiere.

[27CDruid]

Your post suggests that you were way too invested into the Fight Scene aspect of the episode rather than the whole.
Pretty much everyone ended in doomsday.

No, i was just suggesting it was the main question left out. Most of the other questions bothered me as well.

And killing off Smallville's Jimmy, the REAL Jimmy Olsen, was an attrocious decision. I didn't like AA for the part at the start but he really grew on me. Then they kill him and a scene later pronouce him a fake. Nice, real nice.

----- Added 36 Seconds later -----


I was not trying to compare the writing of Rowling, Tolkein, and Lewis to the writing of Smallville, I was simply stating that the technique of using cliffhangers has been around forever.

Anthony Horrowitz would have been a better choice then.

[Super Maverick]

And what's up with the Sketchers commercial? The same one like 10 times? Come on, film another commercial already!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dijonaise]

the issue isn't with the cliffhangers at all. that has always been a staple - and it's a good one. it's about the only reason i've kept coming back from season to season.
the problem lies in the writing. it's anticlimactic and just plain poor.

[ManOfSteel87]

The whole thing about trying to reset the mythos to make Jimmy the right age as he was in the comics is the way it was handled. All of a sudden, he's not the real JO. Like many, I wasn't thrilled when AA was brought in to play Jimmy b/c of the age thing, but I came to accept it and really became a big Jimmy fan. It's like the whole Lex being in SV from the start and being friends with Clark or Lois showing up in season 4. . . it's not in line with the mythos exactly but not so far away that it hurts anything. That's what Jimmy was. The age thing became secondary bc he was such a great character (IMO anyways) and AA did a great job playing him.

I like how they put DD underground like that in line with the real story. My problem was how it got to that point. There's was nothing to it at all. This whole episode was built up as the release of DD and the throwdown between him and Clark, but we got nothing. It's not that people are too invested in the fight scene, but that's what this whole episode was built up on and there was no fight. In fact, DD was really secondary after the whole Jimmy/Chloe/Davis story that went on tonight.

I will disagree that there were cliffhangers in this episode. The only thing we were left wondering is where did Lois go. All other questions are WTF type questions b/c of the writing. I guess you could count the end as a cliffhanger, but everyone pretty much knows that it is Davis as Zod so not much there.

[alma]

Long-time Smallville fan and "watcher" of the forums, but not a big poster. Most of my thoughts are usually fleshed out by other fans so I normally don't have a reason to post... until now.

I've been looking at some different threads going on and all the criticism about all the problems in "Doomsday" and how horrible this episode was, and I have some things I need to get off my chest.

IMHO, all the questions I've seen raised are valid questions - which is the purpose for a cliffhanger episode. The writers know that the show is going to take a break for a few months so they fill an episode with all kinds of situations that are not intended to be answered in that particular episode, but to keep the fans wondering how the characters are going to come out of this new mess. Sloppy writing? Maybe, but every drama series has employed this technique for a very long time - it is even used in classic and contemporary literature when an author knows that there is more to the story than what is in the book (C.S. Lewis used this in the Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkein used it with Lord of the Rings, J.K. Rowling used it with Harry Potter, etc.)

Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season. Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower? Why did the JLA disband? Where did Lois go? How could they kill off Jimmy? Who was that guy holding the orb? Why didn't Rokk help Clark more? Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

There are lots of questions and I hope the writers will be able to address all of them. Will there answers satisfy my curiousity? Probably not - because my expectations and their vision are not the same. It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.
No hatred on my part. Everybody has their opinion and we should all respect that. The couple of things that bothered my in this episode was the death of Jimmy and the lack of Lois (not Clois, but Lois). I didn't really care for Jimmy when he first came on but he grew on me and he became one of my favorite characters. I thought AA played him really well, and for the writers to kill off this character is very upseting to me. The me AA is Jimmy Olsen and (at least) right now, I can't accept another person playing Jimmy. As far as Lois is concerned, the writers told us that all will be forgiven in the finale, but, we have been lied to so much by them, that I wasn't expecting anything from them, and turns out I was right. I felt that Lois was put in there just to satisfy all the Lois fans, and as soon as they could they got rid of Lois and went on with the other stories. I feel for all the Lois fans who were looking forward to this episode and got nothing. I also LOVE Lois, but because we have been lied to so many times I wasn't surprised with the lack of Lois in this episode.

[dijonaise]

The whole thing about trying to reset the mythos to make Jimmy the right age as he was in the comics is the way it was handled. All of a sudden, he's not the real JO. Like many, I wasn't thrilled when AA was brought in to play Jimmy b/c of the age thing, but I came to accept it and really became a big Jimmy fan. It's like the whole Lex being in SV from the start and being friends with Clark or Lois showing up in season 4. . . it's not in line with the mythos exactly but not so far away that it hurts anything. That's what Jimmy was. The age thing became secondary bc he was such a great character (IMO anyways) and AA did a great job playing him.

I like how they put DD underground like that in line with the real story. My problem was how it got to that point. There's was nothing to it at all. This whole episode was built up as the release of DD and the throwdown between him and Clark, but we got nothing. It's not that people are too invested in the fight scene, but that's what this whole episode was built up on and there was no fight. In fact, DD was really secondary after the whole Jimmy/Chloe/Davis story that went on tonight.

I will disagree that there were cliffhangers in this episode. The only thing we were left wondering is where did Lois go. All other questions are WTF type questions b/c of the writing. I guess you could count the end as a cliffhanger, but everyone pretty much knows that it is Davis as Zod so not much there.

right on.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Cliffhangers are used because of money. In terms of probability, more people are likely to watch the season premiere if there was a cliffhanger at the finale.

Other than that, they are not good storytelling devices.

[Kal el of krypton]

I...just...don't...understand. Did the writers actually think this script was good?
I've been a Smallville fan since day one, I always tried to defend it with the plotholes and always had faith. I just don't understand what the writers are trying to do.

Lois went to the future, hopefully she'll come back and rewind the finale. I'm not even going to start on jimmy, theres enough threads about him and the plotholes.

I loved smallville so much, I can't believe they done this to smallville. I feel like writing a letter to the show. I am so pissed off. I feel so betrayed from all the hype of this episode.

They should of just split Clark with black K and made kal el deal with doomsday.

I want Al miles and Alfred Gough back, even if it means i have to see kryponite affect clark in every episode.

They're ruining my favorite TV showwwww :(

Sorry but i had to get this off my chest, Im depressed now lol

[Boycott SF:Movie]

Jimmy was probably doomed since day 1. They convinced DC to have him on the show only to say he's not the real Jimmy. Then why try then?

[Kal el of krypton]

I don't know whats worse, this finale or heroes? lol ahh I just can't believe they're ruining my favorite show lol

[Boycott SF:Movie]

If only there was one more season instead of two drawn out ones.

[xrayvision]

Jimmy was probably doomed since day 1. They convinced DC to have him on the show only to say he's not the real Jimmy. Then why try then?

I don't buy that the plan was to kill Jimmy all along. This was a lightswitch retcon. They knew something like this wouldn't be well received and they would have never bothered bringing him on. They could have easily brought someone else instead of him if they were going to use him the way they did.

[Kal26]

I...just...don't...understand. Did the writers actually think this script was good?
I've been a Smallville fan since day one, I always tried to defend it with the plotholes and always had faith. I just don't understand what the writers are trying to do.

Lois went to the future, hopefully she'll come back and rewind the finale. I'm not even going to start on jimmy, theres enough threads about him and the plotholes.

I loved smallville so much, I can't believe they done this to smallville. I feel like writing a letter to the show. I am so pissed off. I feel so betrayed from all the hype of this episode.

They should of just split Clark with black K and made kal el deal with doomsday.

I want Al miles and Alfred Gough back, even if it means i have to see kryponite affect clark in every episode.

They're ruining my favorite TV showwwww :(

Sorry but i had to get this off my chest, Im depressed now lol

I feel the same way. I've stuck by both sets of producers, and tried to defend everything that others saw as crappy, but I just can't find a way to defend this season. I'm so mad that they've taken my favorite tv show of all time, and turned it in to the most depressing thing I've ever seen. It's almost to the point that I can't watch the old seasons because I know how things will eventually go. I never wanted almiles to go, and would jump for joy if they came back.

[dunkman]

I don't buy that the plan was to kill Jimmy all along. This was a lightswitch retcon. They knew something like this wouldn't be well received and they would have never bothered bringing him on. They could have easily brought someone else instead of him if they were going to use him the way they did.

I agree. Now that Clark is getting so close to be Superman they have to make it fit with the Superman story better, & a younger Superman needs a younger Jimmy. I don't think that was the plan from the beginning, & I think Aaron Ashmore did the best Jimmy Olsen of any of them! If Clark was in his early 30s (like Tom Welling is), this Jimmy would have been the perfect "Superman's Pal".

[Kal26]

I agree with you guys.

[LJ-90]

I don't buy that the plan was to kill Jimmy all along. This was a lightswitch retcon. They knew something like this wouldn't be well received and they would have never bothered bringing him on. They could have easily brought someone else instead of him if they were going to use him the way they did.

True, it was a last minute retcon. I'm just sad that AA was screwed because the showrunners were too lazy to write him a storyline.

I just can see the future "let's reunite all the Jimmys" featurette for the next superman show, missing AA, because he wasn't the real jimmy.

This is a joke and I want an interview where they are asked two thinks.

"How could they do this?"
"How angry was AA when you told him that every interview he made was for nothing, and that featurette was a joke?"

I just want they answers to that questions...please.

[bizzaroboy9]

i totally understand how you feel. i've been depressed all day today. it was unexpected. i hope season 9 will be better.

[Bizarrolover]

Some scens of th season finale were reshot at the last moment. I bet Jimmy lived in the original episode. I'm really disappointed that they killed him, and that they retconned him. Such a disrespect for the character and the actor who played it.

I just realized, this also retconned Apocalypse, or that was indeed Jimmy Olsen?

[SpitCurl]

Thanks for posting. We'd never hate you for sharing your opinion :)

On topic: horrible writing does not a good cliff-hanger make. Poor quality is poor quality and should be called out as such. I'm sure their intentions were in the right place, but the writers execution was flawed flawed flawed.

Not everything should make no sense (yikes, what a mangled sentence). You can't write garbage and call it a "cliff-hanger" because nothing you did in the entire episode makes any sense. We're confused because you did a poor job executing your ideas. Simple things shouldn't require rabid speculation. How many threads are now devoted to how the JL survived being in a confined space w/DD, how Clark contacted Rokk or vice-versa, whether that was Clark "ghosting" out or just dramatic effect, how Jimmy afforded the condo, why Lois would put the ring on, why she wouldn't notice Clark suddenly disappearing instantly and the RBB reaching out and touching her, etc). These are fairly simple things that should't require pages and pages of inquiry.

[susangail]

SuperTaz, I'm glad you finally spoke up :) Great post.

[LJ-90]

The thing it's that...it was poorly written.

I liked the fact that Doomsday went underground and all that, but the retcon in Jimmy it's bad, it was poorly handled and it was out of nowhere, that doesn't make for a good "Oh my god!" moment, it just a "What?" and slap in the face for the fans and actor, simple as that.

Btw, I was also a "watcher" not too long ago, so...I'm glad you decised to speak up!

No hate on my part, I just dislike the episode as a whole, not because of the cliffhangers, because of the poor handlement of the script.

[jazzylg]

They owe us a clark flight and a chlois lip lock! :lol:

[disciples of zod]

no hatred for me. i agree.

~H

[xrayvision]

Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

First off, I have no hatred of you. :)

The quoted part is what my problems stem from. Jimmy Olsen is a DC character and Smallville decided to introduce him to the show and in the Season 7 DVD set even associated him as one of the Jimmy Olsens to have appeared throughout time. My problem is the way they killed Jimmy and their reason for it. Just like you said, many things didn't match up the mythos, but that doesn't mean they should kill it. I have enjoyed many of the things Smallville has taken the liberty to do their own way. What I find appalling and worse, insulting, is when the producers kill a character off and say that it was done to align him with the mythos when they are being selective with the parts of the mythos they want to follow. This wasn't about aligning Jimmy with the mythos, but to draw viewers to the finale because they had to ax an actor for budget reasons and wanted to draw ratings while doing it. That, is what I have the biggest problem with. Because if this was just mythos-alignment, then Jimmy's fate is one that must be shared with all other characters in the show because none of them align with the mythos. Some like Clark, Lex and Lana are miles away from the mythos counterparts. Others like Chloe & Tess don't even exist in the mythos.

My main point is that Jimmy is DC's character and DC would not have given permission to bring him on the show (just like Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc) had it been mandatory that he needed to be killed off due to his age difference. And if they did give permission with those conditions but the producers/showrunners decided to bring Jimmy on anyway knowing that he had to be killed off, then that is just irresponsible, short-sighted writing that does not belong on a TV show. No respectable show would ever do to one of its characters what Smallville did with Jimmy Olsen.

[Spirit Detective]

I definitely agree with Peterson and Sounders being selective with the mythos. That's my biggest problem. After what they did to Jimmy, what's stopping them from erasing Clark or Lois?

[Eeyore840]

First off, I have no hatred of you. :)

The quoted part is what my problems stem from. Jimmy Olsen is a DC character and Smallville decided to introduce him to the show and in the Season 7 DVD set even associated him as one of the Jimmy Olsens to have appeared throughout time. My problem is the way they killed Jimmy and their reason for it. Just like you said, many things didn't match up the mythos, but that doesn't mean they should kill it. I have enjoyed many of the things Smallville has taken the liberty to do their own way. What I find appalling and worse, insulting, is when the producers kill a character off and say that it was done to align him with the mythos when they are being selective with the parts of the mythos they want to follow. This wasn't about aligning Jimmy with the mythos, but to draw viewers to the finale because they had to ax an actor for budget reasons and wanted to draw ratings while doing it. That, is what I have the biggest problem with. Because if this was just mythos-alignment, then Jimmy's fate is one that must be shared with all other characters in the show because none of them align with the mythos. Some like Clark, Lex and Lana are miles away from the mythos counterparts. Others like Chloe & Tess don't even exist in the mythos.

My main point is that Jimmy is DC's character and DC would not have given permission to bring him on the show (just like Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash, etc) had it been mandatory that he needed to be killed off due to his age difference. And if they did give permission with those conditions but the producers/showrunners decided to bring Jimmy on anyway knowing that he had to be killed off, then that is just irresponsible, short-sighted writing that does not belong on a TV show. No respectable show would ever do to one of its characters what Smallville did with Jimmy Olsen.


Re: the original poster--Please don't feel that you will be hated for having an opinion that others might not share. I'm glad you spoke up. :)


xrayvision, I'm quoting your post because it eloquently states my exact thoughts. Well said.

[kal-el_Girl]

I don't know what went wrong with this awful episode, I don't even know where to start honestly... but after watching LOST amazing season finale I was so shocked by this crappy finale that it makes me even more upset.

[wafflles87]

I just realized, this also retconned Apocalypse, or that was indeed Jimmy Olsen?

Excellent point!! Of course, previous episodes don't seem to concern these writers, so previous seasons? I don't think they even remember what happened back then.



I agree with the OP. This episode ruined the show for me. If I end up watching S9, I won't watch it with the same eyes. I won't be as excited for new episodes. Heck, I may skip episodes altogether.

[LJ-90]

Excellent point!! Of course, previous episodes don't seem to concern these writers, so previous seasons? I don't think they even remember what happened back then.



I agree with the OP. This episode ruined the show for me. If I end up watching S9, I won't watch it with the same eyes. I won't be as excited for new episodes. Heck, I may skip episodes altogether.

Same here.

[SVfan87]

I don't know whats worse, this finale or heroes? lol ahh I just can't believe they're ruining my favorite show lol

LOL. Heroes was bad! I can't even remember what happened. It's been going downhill since season 1 but I can't let go. I keep hoping it'll go back to what it once was. Nevertheless, i don't think i'll be watching for too much longer.

As for smallville, this finale did leave a bad taste in my mouth after what was for the most part a good season. I'm just left feeling sad. And I don't like that. For me, the problem is Jimmy's death. If that didn't happen I wouldn't be upset with it. But as it is I can't even think about what else happened. From this point onward all I want from the show is a good wrapup. I want them to end the show honorably and give themselves a pat on the back for accomplishing so much and getting through 8, 9 or however many seasons.

[Spirit Detective]

I just realized, this also retconned Apocalypse, or that was indeed Jimmy Olsen?

First Eternal retconning Talisman and now this?

Peterson and Sounders wrote both Eternal and Doomsday. They are both to blame in retconning Talisman and Apocalypse.

[Joe90]

I'm Soo differente than you Guy's..oooh Yes indeedy..

What you may ask..:confused: Season 8 has been Good compare to the last 3seasons oooh yes baby..
Ok..I didnt like the Lana coming In and i didnt like what they done with ''Doomsday''
My Only complaints in Doomsday is of course the ''Fight'' 5 minutes with ''Clois'' and of course the Death of ''Jimmy'' and Yes its the real ''Jimmy'' to me.
With all the ''Hype'' Doomsday should have been much more.But i think theres going to be a Twist coming from Doomsday to Season 9..Mark my Words.
BUT!!...I'll be watching Smallville next Season and the Season there After...Because i'm a Fun off the Show..;)
I just hope they will up there game for next season i really do ''People''
OoohYea People bring it On!!!:D
......Has anyone seen My Cloisss

[Mrs. Superman]

Excellent point!! Of course, previous episodes don't seem to concern these writers, so previous seasons? I don't think they even remember what happened back then.



I agree with the OP. This episode ruined the show for me. If I end up watching S9, I won't watch it with the same eyes. I won't be as excited for new episodes. Heck, I may skip episodes altogether.
Add me to that list. Jimmy died and took Smallville's integrity (whatever was left of it) with him.

[Spirit Detective]

Peterson and Sounders suck at retcons. Jimmy was a good person dangit.

[whitelight]

I've been a smallville fan since the beginning and i usually agree to what people have to say about which episodes did the major suckage (requiem, power) and which rocked the house (committed, bride)

But after seeing what people were saying about this season finale i decided to join the forum because i think that people really only focused on what was physically going on in that episode and not connecting them to anything that was happening before. I'm not say that this finale was perfect there were some flaws but it wasn't a total disaster!

So here are some points i have, some i already made on the forum (but i don't think any one read it which kinda makes me sad :( ) and some weren't


FIRST POINT: THE FIGHT

Now this was i think was the major turn-off for most people and I AGREE it should have been longer but i would only add 2-3 more min to it nothing more and here's why: I don't think it was ever about the fighting because honestly Clark is obviously not ready to face Doomsday he's not Superman yet therefore it's not suppose to be epic. Another reason is that I don't think they wanted to damage either of the characters because Doomsday needs to be 'intact' for the actual fight when he comes back to fight with Superman, so neither of them could have died (which some people are saying should have happened, which doesn't make sense at all) Also, given the amount of time they had and the amount of money, they couldn't make a huge fight scene like the one in the movies because lets face it, it's a tv show. Also, the episode isn't just called doomsday because he was in it....(see point ten)

IT also ties up the mythos ( or one part of it ) of how lex finds doomsday deep beneath the earths surface. So no Doomsday isn't dead, he's just buried underground and now we know why and how. :D




SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was important. He was to old... and the whole Henry James thing….my brother actually uses his middle name as a first name and no one really knows his first name, other then his family. So i know that they were pushing it but it is possible that he used his middle name as his first.

What i was hoping for was it to be a cousin or chole’s baby, but since they already used her as lois’ cousin i could see how that wouldn’t work. But still a brother with the same name in his name (if that makes sense) is sort of weird, would have been better if it was a younger cousin of “Henry James”.

Oh and everyone who is complaining that "Chole doesn't know Jimmy's family is dumb", must go back and watch committed when “jimmy” and chole discuss his father, and we find out that chole never really met his parents because he was ashamed and he wanted to fit in at the daily planet. Therefore it does make sense that chole doesn’t really know and/or never met his family before and why they don't even come to the wedding.

AND they never called him james Bartholomew olsen on the show...just James Olsen in season 6 episode 1 NO middle name was mentioned. Remember the whole image thing? He probably used his middle name to start up new and fresh at the planet and make a name for himself.

Also as soon and "jimmy" found out about Clark you had to know HE DEFINITELY was going to die because the real Jimmy Olsen doesn't know that Clark is Superman.

I think that what they did to his character and how he died was beautifully sad and he went full circle and after a while people will except it. He helped Chloe bloom as a character and get over clark as a love interest.




THIRD POINT: THE WATCH TOWER
This one was slightly obvious.....

He bought the watch tower BEFORE the wedding and the tower as jimmy said "is a run down place that world had forgotten about" so it probably isn't as expensive since it was a run down building. chole didn't know about it because it was a surprise present from jimmy so the whole paying the bills wouldn't make sense. and the drug deals....jimmy told clark that he could bring himself to get rid of it....so that blows that. and the whole can't pay for his car...you know that was all BS he just needed money for drugs and (i'll say it again)since he couldn't bring himself to sell the apartment or loft, he went to Oliver with some lame excuse.




FOURTH POINT: CLARK'S ENDING SPEECH
This was the most vital. After so much pain in his life clark finally goes overboard...emotionally. Which this season was building up to, the "darker side of Clark" Him saying clark kent is dead is basically saying that his human side his dead (just like the beginning of season 4 but only this time with a choice)If you still don't see it.... Okay put yourself in his position....you go tell jimmy to protect chole and davis and to trust me...jimmy does and then davis kills him....i would totally blame myself! i put him in that position and especially when you have all the powers that clark has that could have prevent something like that from happening.

AND Let me make this also clear he doesn't blame HUMANITY he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way.




FIFTH POINT: BAD CLIFFHANGERS
The funny thing about this is that people who are asking a ton of questions about what is happening are the ones saying that it was a bad cliff hanger or there isn't one.... ROTFL

so cliffhangers aren't, lois missing, chole losing everyone, jimmy's brother (does he come into the story yet? highly doubt it but you never know) and that whole purple orb dude (ZOD), clark "dying" in a symbolic sense, OH! and Clark not knowing how he got out of the tunnel(maybe he flew?!?!?! :D), clark disappearing?(does that mean anything?) and what about JL??? ...doesn't anyone want to find out what that all means? That's the whole point of a cliffhanger so that we don't know everything, that pieces of the story are missing.

So questions that will most likely be answered are....How is Clark going to start behaving? is he finally going to the fortress to completely finish his training? is he going to be a colder person(or alien)? is he going to start killing evil people? What about lois? Where did the JL go?



SIXTH POINT: OTHER SUPERHEROES
Sometimes actions speak louder words? They were there to help him get rid of doomsday they weren't the main part of the story. Clark, JImmy, Chloe and Doomsday were the main story lines, all the others are subplots hence why they are special guests or supporting casts, to help SUPPORT the story. They were there to help him in the background, they were at jimmy's funeral, and (this just me) it's always nice to see a superhero (other then clark) on smallville :D




SEVENTH POINT: ZOD SUCKS
LOL i find this so fun that every one hates Zod...but seriously think about this...

Zod did create Doomsday. I mean think of it the only reason why Clark is on earth is because of Zod. Almost every season is more or less him preparing to protect the world from or trying to defeat the many different things Zod has created (and actually it also about going up against Lex which is basically a human version of Zod). So Zod is, in my opinion, one of the BIGGEST rivals that Clark/Superman has. so wouldn’t Zod in a way be Clark’s ultimate rival?





EIGHTH POINT: CLARK FLYING
This slightly bother some...

I sort of understand everyone’s need for Clark to fly…this whole series is about Clark BECOMING superman…not Clark as superman I think the whole super jump thing is getting bigger and longer, which is probably how he starts flying....with all the kryptonians we’ve seen on smallville, they’re all older, and haven’t been raised on earth and therefore it’s easier for them to fly.

But even then....i don't think it was just me who thought it...but Clark JUMPING from the center of the city all the way to the out skirts in a building? I don't think that was a jump....i think he did fly...or semi flew.



NINTH POINT: ROKK'S ADVICE
He was only in the beginning because he didn't want to mess with time too much, it was only to give clark a warning that he is going to die. That is the only reason how Clark knew that he had to go after doomsday and that nothing else could on earth could stop him. So Clark does in a way listens to ROKK.




TENTH POINT: WHY IT'S CALLED DOOMSDAY
It's not only called doomsday because its has the character in it but because of the emotional doom in it. The show is not just about his physical strength anymore...we know he has that. It's about how he's changing emotionally (hence the slightly emo ending) It's a more mature show and has more intense emotional cliffhangers rather then just cutting it in a middle of a fight, they cut it right when clark feels the weakest about humanity. Clark has been through so much emotional drama you can see his just as sick of it as everyone else watching is :P




ELEVENTH POINT: DAVIS THE PSYCHO
I think that that was played out well. Because in the end that's what really turned Clark off of his human side and that he actually made a mistake about what davis is. Davis was basically evil through and through..rotten to the core.




WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE TO MAKE IT BETTER
What it boils down to is it being tooo choppy and not enough time to explain everything clearer. It should have been a two part episode, probably would have made alot more people happy, more lois before she disappears, more jl, more of everything :D



in conclusion, EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH SESASON 8 OVER AGAIN (except for the lana parts because there not really important...:P)because you are missing little deatils i probably need to too :D

and don't forget... THIS WHOLE SERIES IS ABOUT CLARK BECOMING SUPERMAN AND THE STORY BEFORE THE COMICS…..IT’S JUST A SET UP TO THE REAL DEAL :)

and if anyone doesn't understand something i've said or has something else that they hate about this season just let me know :)

[RedKRules]

what do think they did to the fans at Failsday? they promise things they can´t deliver ....... ;) I don´t think I am being harsh or anything .... just realistic;)

[whitelight]

i honestly never understood that they never promised and epic battle just a face off....can you tell me where they said all these promises?

[kari916]

I thought it was ok not the best. I stated this in another forums that I think they had a series finale planned before they heard the news that the C.W. renewed Smallville for another season or two if there is a tenth and that why this episode was shot I thought it was rushed because they rushed to put in another season finale as quick as they could.

[Jigga]

Why bring in Doomsday at all? They failed to deliver by just announcing Doomsday in the first place. A lot of people noted this when it was first announced. If they were just going to do some lame faceoff (literally staring at each other) then bring in some other major villain. The excuse that they are setting it up for mythos is a load. If they cared about mythos, we would not be in a season 8 with a Clark that is nowhere near Superman.

Jimmy. Again, same with the Doomsday. If the whole point was that he was going to die and not be Jimmy at all, why bother bring him in at all? There was zero need to do so.

These two were a let down because just by announcing them they literally made a promise.

[REebee52]

Ausiello said it quite a few times. And even if he hadn't, it was heavily implied within the shows context.

[Glove]

First order of business, welcome to K-Site, Whitelight.

I really don't think "Doomsday" or Season 8 was that
bad. I think the fight was a bit short between Clark
and Doomsday. I don't think they did enough with
the Justice League or the Injustice League (In the
prior episode). They did anounce earlier in the season
that "Something big would happen between episodes
#21 and #22" and they failed to deliver anything
resembling exciting. They went from one let down
to another. They were nothing more than eye
candy. Aside from that, their storytelling was
decent. They failed to satisfy the rabid fans who
expected more.

[LJ-90]

i honestly never understood that they never promised and epic battle just a face off....can you tell me where they said all these promises?

I would say something about the build up but I'm lazy, so I'll just show you this:

Are Clark and Doomsday throwing down in the finale?
Brian Peterson: It's what everybody has probably been watching for the whole season. There will be a big throwdown between Doomsday and Clark.
Kelly Souders: Clark meets his match.

So yeah, they lied.

[RedKRules]

i honestly never understood that they never promised and epic battle just a face off....can you tell me where they said all these promises?

They promised a lot of things, not only an Epic battle between Clark and Doom, I think you will be able to find it if you read those comic con articles and those interviews they gave at the beginning of S8.

I promise I am not lying ;)

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I would say something about the build up but I'm lazy, so I'll just show you this:

Are Clark and Doomsday throwing down in the finale?
Brian Peterson: It's what everybody has probably been watching for the whole season. There will be a big throwdown between Doomsday and Clark.
Kelly Souders: Clark meets his match.

So yeah, they lied.

Thank you so much for saving me from a big search .... ;)

[fan of the man]

God bless you, White Light, well said, but I believe most of these fans are blinded by the light, they can't see past their belove characters or ships, sound reason or logic with proof will not be accepted.

You need to think about being a lawyer you would be great.

[Supsfan]

SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was most crucial because i think everyone knew deep down that this wasn’t “the real jimmy”. He was much to old.

As many other pointed out

We could do lists for all characters how they don't line up to the comic counterpart, yet Jimmy's age is the biggest issue for this show to line up to the mythos? Maybe they should worry about the big problems that don't line up to the comic continuity instead of the little ones.

[RedKRules]

My fav character lived and I am still mad about the finale ..... am I still blind??????

[Timester]

As many other pointed out

We could do lists for all characters how they don't line up to the comic counterpart, yet Jimmy's age is the big issue between Jimmy lining up to comic!Jimmy? Maybe they should worry about the big problems that don't line up to the comic continuity instead of the little ones.

To be fair, many of those that didn't lined up were fixed this year and are still being fixed. Especially the main ones (Clark, Lois, Chloe).

[whitelight]

Why bring in Doomsday at all? They failed to deliver by just announcing Doomsday in the first place. A lot of people noted this when it was first announced. If they were just going to do some lame faceoff (literally staring at each other) then bring in some other major villain. The excuse that they are setting it up for mythos is a load. If they cared about mythos, we would not be in a season 8 with a Clark that is nowhere near Superman.

Jimmy. Again, same with the Doomsday. If the whole point was that he was going to die and not be Jimmy at all, why bother bring him in at all? There was zero need to do so.

These two were a let down because just by announcing them they literally made a promise.

you obviously didn't read my ending..the series is all before the comics, its to show how everything came to be....it wasn't pointless because it helped Clark evolve can't you see that? and they never explained how doomsday got there from what i remember reading(in the comics)

and henry james was there for chole's plot line and to set up why the real jimmy came to be, he wanted to be just like his brother (they never really talk about jimmy's family in the comics)

i will say it once more...smallville is about how things came to be and setting everything up so that if you read the comics everything will make sense....you may not think that now...but at the end of the series i'm pretty sure everyone will be satisfied...i guess everyone thinks i'm crazy for saying that :\ but i believe it's true

[Jigga]

you obviously didn't read my ending..the series is all before the comics, its to show how everything came to be....it wasn't pointless because it helped Clark evolve can't you see that? and they never explained how doomsday got there from what i remember reading(in the comics)

and henry james was there for chole's plot line and to set up why the real jimmy came to be, he wanted to be just like his brother (they never really talk about jimmy's family in the comics)

i will say it once more...smallville is about how things came to be and setting everything up so that if you read the comics everything will make sense....you may not think that now...but at the end of the series i'm pretty sure everyone will be satisfied...i guess everyone thinks i'm crazy for saying that :\ but i believe it's true

Again, they don't need to explain Doomsday at all. If they needed Doomsday as a point of making Clark into Superman then that's just bad writing and simply jump the shark. The promise of announcing Doomsday at any point is that there will be a fight. Fine, if it's suppose to setup the Death of Superman, but there needed to be a fight. There wasn't any.

[whitelight]

They promised a lot of things, not only an Epic battle between Clark and Doom, I think you will be able to find it if you read those comic con articles and those interviews they gave at the beginning of S8.

I promise I am not lying ;)

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



Thank you so much for saving me from a big search .... ;)

wasn't that before they decided to have a season nine? probably changed it when they decided to have another season but the should of told us....i understand that now though thanks :)

[REebee52]

God bless you, White Light, well said, but I believe most of these fans are blinded by the light, they can't see past their belove characters or ships, sound reason or logic with proof will not be accepted.

You need to think about being a lawyer you would be great.

I don't give a damn about ships, but loving the characters and hoping they are written well is a flaw?

Sound logic? If anything wasn't logical, it was this episode! It's scattered, anti-climactic, incoherent, and an overall let down. The entire season built to this, and someone had the quote where they said there would be a brawl. Some fight, eh?

Is it logical for two brothers to both go by Jimmy Olsen? And have the exact same quirks as the Jimmy Olsen from comic book lore? This was foolish. Either we were tricked to believe this Jimmy was the real one and he wasn't, or we're being tricked now and he's coming back. I prefer the latter, but either way we're being tricked.

Is it logical to show a person the scene before you pronounce him as lost? Chloe and Clark talk about finding Oliver and bringing him home. He was at the funeral.

Is it logical to speak for 21 episodes about the threat of Doomsday, then have a lame short fight? Logic says such a buildup deserves a pay off. If Clark is dead, was that his spirit that talked to Chloe?
Bad. Just bad.

[whitelight]

God bless you, White Light, well said, but I believe most of these fans are blinded by the light, they can't see past their belove characters or ships, sound reason or logic with proof will not be accepted.

You need to think about being a lawyer you would be great.


Thanks, but i think everyone is going to be hunting me down....and i just made everyone angrier :eek:

[Mrs. Superman]

I don't give a damn about ships, but loving the characters and hoping they are written well is a flaw?

Sound logic? If anything wasn't logical, it was this episode! It's scattered, anti-climactic, incoherent, and an overall let down. The entire season built to this, and someone had the quote where they said there would be a brawl. Some fight, eh?

Is it logical for two brothers to both go by Jimmy Olsen? And have the exact same quirks as the Jimmy Olsen from comic book lore? This was foolish. Either we were tricked to believe this Jimmy was the real one and he wasn't, or we're being tricked now and he's coming back. I prefer the latter, but either way we're being tricked.

Is it logical to show a person the scene before you pronounce him as lost? Chloe and Clark talk about finding Oliver and bringing him home. He was at the funeral.

Is it logical to speak for 21 episodes about the threat of Doomsday, then have a lame short fight? Logic says such a buildup deserves a pay off. If Clark is dead, was that his spirit that talked to Chloe?
Bad. Just bad.
SO much word!

Even if they didnt just crap all over Jimmy fans, this episode was still poorly written.

[LJ-90]

wasn't that before they decided to have a season nine? probably changed it when they decided to have another season but the should of told us....i understand that now though thanks :)

Actually this interview was after they decided to have a season 9. So they lied a lot.

Btw I don't hate you, and you didn't made me angrier.

The problem I personally have with the Jimmy deal it's that they could had made it better, explain A LOT better, probably loose the "twist" but made it reasonable. I don't have a problem with not being the real Jimmy, I have a problem with the way they executed it.

My 100 post!

Thats all.

[whitelight]

btw just to clear something up...i'm not disagreeing with any one about the length of the fight...but i just don't agree that one of them should have died or for the fight to have gone on for TOO long because clark isn't ready....i'm pretty sure realistically he would have died and we can't have that...

[REebee52]

Thanks, but i think everyone is going to be hunting me down....and i just made everyone angrier :eek:

Absolutely not, you did nothing wrong. I have been in your shoes MANY times, so I sympathize. You're entitled to your opinion, and I mine. So we disagree, big deal. If you liked the episode, great. I thought it did a lot wrong.

[whitelight]

Actually this interview was after they decided to have a season 9. So they lied a lot.

Btw I don't hate you, and you didn't made me angrier.

The problem I personally have with the Jimmy deal it's that they could had made it better, explain A LOT better, probably loose the "twist" but made it reasonable. I don't have a problem with not being the real Jimmy, I have a problem with the way they executed it.

Thats all.

lol thanks...i think why i like this episode and others don't is because i don't like reading spoilers....kind of gives you high hopes and have a chance for a big crash

i can understand why everyones angry about the fight (i was just bothered by it) i would have been pulling my hair out about that...but everything else i still stick by :)

[REebee52]

lol thanks...i think why i like this episode and others don't is because i don't like reading spoilers....kind of gives you high hopes and have a chance for a big crash

i can understand why everyones angry about the fight (i was just bothered by it) i would have been pulling my hair out about that...but everything else i still stick by :)

The other thing: How long have you watched the show? There's a lot of expectations put on finales. They typically have great action scenes. And almost all of them have been great episodes. I thought they were saving up for a fight scene, based on the low budget of some of the episodes, but apparently they weren't...

[Mickey_Bickey]

Welcome, Whitelight! I, too, have been watching this show from the beginning, and I really had my hopes up high for this particular finale. Unfortunately, I really feel let down and mislead. I appreciate that you liked it. Not everyone can be on the same page every time, and you'll see this the longer you stick around here.

From my POV......

In the beginning of the season it all looked so promising. Clark was finally embracing his destiny, he was working at the DP across from Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen was in the picture, the Doomsday arc was being introduced, and Chloe had her own storyline that had to do with Brainiac. SV episodes were good!

Things were going smoothly up until Bride when Lana resurfaced. The arc did a real number on the show, and to be honest with the exception of a couple of episodes, it never really got completely back on track.

Now, we have Doomsday coming to a head where it is implied that there is going to be a huge smackdown between DD and Clark where they're spoiling 2 deaths that will stick, blah blah blah. Looked to be quite the finale we were heading into!

In all this we also have the producers talking about a "quintessential Lois and Clark moment" and "how good their chemistry is" along with Matt from TV Guide stating that "all will be forgiven" about ED's episode count by what's in the finale. Obviously, 7 minutes plus a few seconds of Lois Lane's character in this episode not only short changed her fans, but proved both those spoilers were completely misleading as well as the one about Clark having a huge battle with DD. Of course that's going to be disappointing. The fight scenes in Combat and Bizarro were far better.:\

Then the whole Jimmy thing! I can't even begin to express myself on how disappointed I am about all this. :(

All in all, it was very misleading and anti-climatic IMO. I'm talking about this episode as well as the previous two leading up to it. The first half of the season was far better then the second. I can only hope that they're lining things up to the mythos, and that all this will make sense and every fan will be happy next season.

For now, I'm just left having some mixed feelings about this show.

[whitelight]

The other thing: How long have you watched the show? There's a lot of expectations put on finales. They typically have great action scenes. And almost all of them have been great episodes. I thought they were saving up for a fight scene, based on the low budget of some of the episodes, but apparently they weren't...

since the beginning season 1 episode one...i've seen some amazing fight scenes (bizzaro was and still is my fav :D) and i wasn't saying that this was one of them i'm just trying to tell you a possible reason why they didn't have such a long/ intense fight. basically the reasoning behind why they didn't make it so long

[REebee52]

Welcome, Whitelight! I, too, have been watching this show from the beginning, and I really had my hopes up high for this particular finale. Unfortunately, I really feel let down and mislead. I appreciate that you liked it. Not everyone can be on the same page every time, and you'll see this the longer you stick around here.

From my POV......

In the beginning of the season it all looked so promising. Clark was finally embracing his destiny, he was working at the DP across from Lois Lane, Jimmy Olsen was in the picture, the Doomsday arc was being introduced, and Chloe had her own storyline that had to do with Brainiac. SV episodes were good!

Things were going smoothly up until Bride when Lana resurfaced. The arc did a real number on the show, and to be honest with the exception of a couple of episodes, it never really got completely back on track.

Now, we have Doomsday coming to a head where it is implied that there is going to be a huge smackdown between DD and Clark where they're spoiling 2 deaths that will stick, blah blah blah. Looked to be quite the finale we were heading into!

In all this we also have the producers talking about a "quintessential Lois and Clark moment" and "how good their chemistry is" along with Matt from TV Guide stating that "all will be forgiven" about ED's episode count by what's in the finale. Obviously, 7 minutes plus a few seconds of Lois Lane's character in this episode not only short changed her fans, but proved both those spoilers were completely misleading as well as the one about Clark having a huge battle with DD. Of course that's going to be disappointing. The fight scenes in Combat and Bizarro were far better.:\

Then the whole Jimmy thing! I can't even begin to express myself on how disappointed I am about all this. :(

All in all, it was very misleading and anti-climatic IMO. I'm talking about this episode as well as the previous two leading up to it. The first half of the season was far better then the second. I can only hope that they're lining things up to the mythos, and that all this will make sense and every fan will be happy next season.

For now, I'm just left having some mixed feelings about this show.

I would like to say I think the Lana-arc is necessarily the sole blame for this seasons downturn. There were a lot of other factors included. Like a sh**y injustice league..

[Mickey_Bickey]

I would like to say I think the Lana-arc is necessarily the sole blame for this seasons downturn. There were a lot of other factors included. Like a sh**y injustice league..

For me it was the turning point on the downward spiral, but of course there were other factors. I agree with that!

[Supsfan]

To be fair, many of those that didn't lined up were fixed this year and are still being fixed. Especially the main ones (Clark, Lois, Chloe).

Lana? and even worse then Lana(because I can live with a Lana story have the freedom to end off how they please), the Clana relationship which I thought was a huge slap to the "mythos"(ie I don't want "tragic" Clark Kent)

[whitelight]

Lana? and even worse then Lana(because I can live with a Lana story have the freedom to end off how they please), the Clana relationship which I thought was a huge slap to the "mythos"(ie I don't want "tragic" Clark Kent)

TOTALLY AGREE WITH THAT....lana sucked this season and last...and i know this doesn't really agree with the mythos...and i kick myslef for saying this but i would have loved her to become evil...like lex evil (i know totally not related to the post but i HAD to say it lol)

[fan of the man]

I don't give a damn about ships, but loving the characters and hoping they are written well is a flaw?

Sound logic? If anything wasn't logical, it was this episode! It's scattered, anti-climactic, incoherent, and an overall let down. The entire season built to this, and someone had the quote where they said there would be a brawl. Some fight, eh?

Is it logical for two brothers to both go by Jimmy Olsen? And have the exact same quirks as the Jimmy Olsen from comic book lore? This was foolish. Either we were tricked to believe this Jimmy was the real one and he wasn't, or we're being tricked now and he's coming back. I prefer the latter, but either way we're being tricked.

Is it logical to show a person the scene before you pronounce him as lost? Chloe and Clark talk about finding Oliver and bringing him home. He was at the funeral.

Is it logical to speak for 21 episodes about the threat of Doomsday, then have a lame short fight? Logic says such a buildup deserves a pay off. If Clark is dead, was that his spirit that talked to Chloe?
Bad. Just bad.

Is it logical for two brothers to go by Jimmy- well for the fifteen thousand time Henry James Olson wanted to be called Jimmy he is the oldest, so his parents and family called him Jimmy, they named their second son James B. Olson and they called him James, but in honour of his decease brother he takes his name latter on before becoming a reporter, does that sound logical, people who have the name James go by James not Jimmy or Jim, they can, but they go by James, I have a brother in law whose name is James and he goes by James.

Is it logical to show a person the scene before you pronounce him as lost? Chloe and Clark talk about finding Oliver and bringing him home. He was at the funeral.
Well after the Funeral the JLA left, split whatever they disapeared from the radar and after the funeral Clark visited Chloe at the place Jimmy had gotten her for a wedding gift. Chloe wanted Clark to help her find them and put the team back together. I think that is what you are talking about. If it is what is illogical about that?

Is it logical to speak for 21 episodes about the threat of Doomsday, then have a lame short fight? Logic says such a buildup deserves a pay off. If Clark is dead, was that his spirit that talked to Chloe?

I think White Light explain it well, season eight give us the HOW did doomsday get here? answer: Doomsday is a kryptonian clone or experiencement of Zod the evil General of Krypton, he attach his clone to Ka-el ship, Ka-el was found by the Kents but Doomsday was left to wander from orphanage to orphanage. The finale was not to be the fight that kills Clark, but it allow the young Clark Kent a chance to bury him a mile or two under ground just like the comics, just like the mythos, when Clark become Superman and years from now Luther corp will be drilling and release the beast and then that fight will be the fight of the century. As for Clark being died that is part of speculations we don't if Clark is died or what Chloe saw or talked too, that is part of the cliff hanger.

[susangail]

Whitelight, thanks for trying. Emotions are running high. We have all summer to simmer down.

FWIW, I liked the finale, too. I dreaded what I thought they were going to do, but they exceeded my expectations.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Well the OP addressed everything so I'll just say I agree with everything she said. Good work. As for Jimmy, well AA did a good job. I won't abandon Smallville down the river since he got cut since that's what the Chloe fans said they'd do if Chloe got the axe/ He did his job and he was let go when he couldn't contribute anything more to the story. But I do expect in season 9 they will address all the cliffhangers and concerns eventually. Maybe they'll bring in new Jimmy as part of the main cast and steadily build him up to be iconic Jimmy Olsen. I just hope he won't bust in there saying I'm Jimmy Olsen. Maybe be all formal and say my name is James or Bartholemew and be taken under the wing of Lois or Clark and then eventually after some time earn the name Jimmy Olsen.
And for those who say there was not enough time for so and so well there was just not enough time to put a lot of stuff in. Maybe if it was a movie Smallville wouldn't be so choppy with their storytelling and everybody could be happy but time constraints are a killer. I mean Supernatural had to show they had to wrap it up.

[sweetsam_7]

I am a die hard of smallville since season 1 and I am really disappointed. I really don't know how to defend this show anymore. It has been a big let down. So let me get this...
Superman and James Olsen are friends and are known to be in almost same age group. Clark is almost 30 and Jimmy is dead. How do they plan to create James Olsen now and bring him in the same age group as superman ? Anything is possible in smallville I guess. After all what is one more plot hole going to change huh ?

[darkraya]

season 8, well at least the secong half, was the worst in alla the series, they ****ed up. clark, chloe, lana, oliver and pretty much all the characters on the show with the cprap stories that theyve been feeding us every week.

i hope season 9 is better than this bs.

[whitelight]

Well the OP addressed everything so I'll just say I agree with everything she said. Good work. As for Jimmy, well AA did a good job. I won't abandon Smallville down the river since he got cut since that's what the Chloe fans said they'd do if Chloe got the axe/ He did his job and he was let go when he couldn't contribute anything more to the story. But I do expect in season 9 they will address all the cliffhangers and concerns eventually. Maybe they'll bring in new Jimmy as part of the main cast and steadily build him up to be iconic Jimmy Olsen. I just hope he won't bust in there saying I'm Jimmy Olsen. Maybe be all formal and say my name is James or Bartholemew and be taken under the wing of Lois or Clark and then eventually after some time earn the name Jimmy Olsen.
And for those who say there was not enough time for so and so well there was just not enough time to put a lot of stuff in. Maybe if it was a movie Smallville wouldn't be so choppy with their storytelling and everybody could be happy but time constraints are a killer. I mean Supernatural had to show they had to wrap it up.

Yea! lol ...this is a bit off topic but i didn't think supernatural was over...

[cworkman]

Actually, the various Superman titles HAVE dealt with Jimmy's family at various points, and it's nothing like the family presented in DOOMSDAY.

The producers have claimed that they wanted to bring the show in line with the comic book mythology, and everything in DOOMSDAY was designed to do that. I've got almost every issue of Superman and Action going back to the early 1940s, as well as most issues of the other Superman titles. How is giving Lana a Kryptonite-laced power suit in line with comic book mythology? Or claiming that Jimmy had an older brother who also had the name James and was a Daily Planet photographer called Jimmy? How is having Green Arrow murder someone in line with comic book mythology? (The same goes with the dubious intentions of the Legion of Super Heroes.) I could go on forever, but I'm afraid I'd bore everyone to death.

In addition, I'm a writer/editor who has worked in the educational industry for over a decade, contributing both writing and editing to over a thousand textbooks in every discipline. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging when I say that; I only bring it up to provide background for why I can say that DOOMSDAY is a terribly written episode. Characters behaved out of character. For instance, throughout the entire season, the Davis Bloome persona is intrinsically good; he basically even saves Jimmy, despite the fact that Jimmy loves Chloe, just as he (Davis) does; and having the opportunity to destroy Jimmy would clear Davis's path to Chloe. But when he has the opportunity to kill Jimmy early on, he doesn't do so. Yet in a moment of passion he later kills Jimmy for the very reasons he would likely have done so early on, had he been evil or out of control in human persona. It simply doesn't ring true.

Clark has experienced numerous examples of humans who are good and humans who are bad, but his limited experience with Kryptonians is that they're killers. For instance, Zor-El, Doomsday, Zod, and Brainiac, as well as the two Kryptonians who came out of the ship at the beginning of Season 5, are all killers; not to menion, Clark believes his own biological father is responsible for the weak heart that later lead to the death of the adopted father. Yet because the human persona of Davis Bloome kills Jimmy, Clark comes to believe that he must desert being human and embrace being Kryptonian? This, despite the fact that Davis's Kryptonian side, Doomsday, has killed innumerable people and is far worse than Davis?

The explanation posited here as to Chloe's question about what happened to the Justice League does not ring plausible (in fact, I found the explanation rather confusing, almost an example of wish fulfillment; "I must find an explanation to make this work because there really isn't one otherwise").

Jimmy Olsen was introduced to the series several years ago as Jimmy Olsen, a young photographer for the Daily Planet, hoping to work his way up to the big leagues (hm, just like in the comic book). He was frequently presented as a sidekick to Lois and sometimes Clark. Yet the producers felt he was out of sync with comic book mythology because of his age, so they killed him off and introduced another Jimmy, one that, just as problematically, is TOO young. Jimmy in the comic book is about a decade younger than Clark, who in turn is slightly younger than Lois. Why is having a Jimmy who is too old any worse than one who is too young? And even on SMALLVILLE, I had the impression that Jimmy was, while not considerably younger than Clark, at least a few years. It certainly didn't hurt that Aaron Ashmore encapsulated everything that was familiar about the character as we know him from the comic books and previous programs. I'd go so far as to even suggest that Ashmore's Jimmy was closer to the comic book than any previous presentation of Jimmy. He was not a bumbling fool, but rather was a three-dimensional human being.

One has to wonder, did the producers really have an issue with Jimmy's age, or did they have some uncited problem with Aaron Ashmore and decided to find some way to write him out of the show? I don't know if I believe that, but there's something going on here. Most probably, it's simply that they'd promised a death for the finale, but they got so much negative feedback about the possibility that it might be Chloe (understandably, because I too love Chloe), that they decided to 'shock' the audience by making it an 'untouchable' mythos character. To soften it, they then retconned the character and made the claim that it was never the "real" Jimmy, which is both insulting and condescending to the show's (and the comic books') fans.

I can forgive a lot, including the very weak fight between Clark and Doomsday (killed by budgetary limits, I have no doubt). But the bait and switch they pulled with Jimmy is unforgivable and very well may result in me not returning to the show next season. I have NEVER missed an episode of this show since season one, I own all of the DVD sets, and I have ALWAYS believed Brian and Kelly the best writers to have ever worked on the show. (They have always had a superb and deft ability to combine action, romance, comedy, and drama into a near-perfect whole.) But unfortunately, they showed a major lapse in judgment with this final episode, one which really needs to be corrected if the show is to succeed next season.

[SnowBird]

Thanks, but i think everyone is going to be hunting me down....and i just made everyone angrier :eek:

I'm one of the ones who liked your post. I agreed with most of what you wrote. You are brave indeed and I applaud you for stating your mind. Who knows, maybe you have swayed someone with your logic to understand that Doomsday isn't as bad as they first thought. Keep up the good work and thanks much:)

[jayden77]

Hey Whitelight
I just loved your posting. I use to post in my "Roswell" days but all the negativity use to get to me - so now I just read (mostly when I don't understand something) and rarely post.
Everything you wrote was right on as far as I'm concerned. I think people take tv shows too seriously. It's meant to entertain and not consume our lives, or hang on every word that a producer or director might say. The acting on this show is great and the stories are entertaining, even if they don't always go our way.
I for one, am looking foward to season 9. Because once this series is finished, we probably won't see anymore Superman for a while. And since I am a fan for all superman related tv-movies... well I just hope my withdrawal symptoms aren't too horrible!

[cworkman]

True, TV shows are meant to entertain. But when TV shows are poorly written and/or inexplicable, I rarely find them entertaining. Good writing, performances, effects, etc., can add up to good television. The only thing I saw in SMALLVILLE's finale to warrant a positive response were the performances. By all means, when something is good, it should be praised. But when it goes wrong, people should feel welcome to voice a negative opinion about it. That's what freedom of speech is all about. Too often, unfortunately, people think they should have the freedom to voice an opinion, but that the opposing side should not. That's not what freedom of speech is all about.

[Khyla]

whitelight, :) It looks like you and me and only a handful of others on this website actually pay attention to the show (and not the rumors and fan-hype*) I saw everything you did and more.

*as you said , and as I stated in my own review of the epi (see bottom of my post) many ppl were expecting/demanding a lot more than what was promised, and saying that it was promised and never delivered!


...
I'm not say that this finale was perfect there were some flaws but it wasn't a total disaster!...

So here are some points i have, some i already made on the forum (but i don't think any one read it which kinda makes me sad :( ) ...
unfortunately intelligent posts like yours get lost in all the repetitive lashing. :(

I totally agree with what you said about the fight,
And I definitely thought Clark flew there! And when he said he didn't know how he got out before the blast. I was sure he flew! I just think he held back telling CHloe about it for fear it would stir up some uncontainable emotion from her, and thus make it even harder for him to detach himself and "say goodbye".



watch committed when “jimmy” and chole discuss his father,... it does make sense that chole doesn’t really know and/or never met his family before and why they don't even come to the wedding.
Abssolutely!


AND Let me make this also clear he doesn't blame HUMANITY he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way.
Exactly.



TENTH POINT: WHY IT'S CALLED DOOMSDAY
It's not only called doomsday because its has the character in it but because of the emotional doom in it. The show is not just about his physical strength anymore...we know he has that. It's about how he's changing emotionally (hence the slightly emo ending) It's a more mature show and has more intense emotional cliffhangers rather then just cutting it in a middle of a fight, they cut it right when clark feels the weakest about humanity. Clark has been through so much emotional drama you can see his just as sick of it as everyone else watching is :P

Smallville is known for it's one-word titles that always represent more than one aspect of the episode.

And Davis was doomed from the beginning before he evolved into a human being, He was a genetic lab-creation of Zod's. A lot of ppl argue over what factors contribute more heavily to a person's character, and in Davis'
case he never had a fighting chance. Both his nature and his nurture were as foul as any creature could tolerate. Also, it was very believable, though a shock and a surprise, that Davis would act the way he did at the end. If you have ever known a person with Bi-polar disorder with occasional psychotic episodes you know that it's not unfathomable for him to behave the way he did all season and then seem totally OOC at the end. Face it; he was genetic material that had been tampered with on top of a lousy upbringing.. one hell of a concoction for all kinds of behavioral disorders.





WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE TO MAKE IT BETTER
What it boils down to is it being tooo choppy and not enough time to explain everything clearer. It should have been a two part episode, probably would have made alot more people happy, more lois before she disappears, more jl, more of everything :D
Agree.



and don't forget... THIS WHOLE SERIES IS ABOUT CLARK BECOMING SUPERMAN

Agree. Once he takes on the title of Superman, there is no longer a Smallville story to tell.:(





...AND THE STORY BEFORE THE COMICS…..IT’S JUST A SET UP TO THE REAL DEAL :)

Well actually it has been mentioned several times by the creators of the series that it is not a prequel, just a great story based loosely on Superman lore ;):
"...we’re telling not the back story or an origin, but a story,” Gough said. “It’s the idea that with great power comes great responsibility,... :
http://www.smeco.com/community/somdstories/gough.htm

It also has been referred to as an elseworld by the VP of Creative Affairs for DC Comics = http://www.smallvilleph.com/2009/03/gregory-noveck-talks-smallville/
Gregory Noveck, VP Creative Affairs DC Comics, talks Smallville



=================================================


=================================================

Here was my comment on the finale episode, DOOMSDAY:

Wow. So much negativity! I think many were expecting too much. C'mon guys. It's Smallville!Just because they have in the past had some really happening episodes, y'all expect it to always be Grade A caliber?

IMO the only thing the show-runners are guilty of is too much hype for an episode that was more qualified to be praised as a normal run episode.[/b] (I think there were other epi's this season that were more of the "finale caliber" but my hubby and I still thought it was good) They did seem to cram an awful lot into a 1-hr. show though, and leave us wondering about a lot! .

And, while the 2 deaths I was fairly certain of, Davis and Clark, did happen, Clark's was the "metaphorical death" we kept hearing about in the spoilers and I can honestly say I was shocked that the other real death was Jimmy. Great unexpected twist! I think the ones who are upset about this the most are those who feel threatened by it, thinking if they can "do that" with Jimmy, who's to say they can't do the same with Lois --though, to me, that seems even more unlikely now, since they have already played that card.

Poor Chloe: it seemed so callous of Clark to just walk away from Chloe after all the trauma she had just been through and with her cousin's disappearance on top of that.

Is he that detached right now, that he can't give her even a tiny bit of comfort at a time when she could really use a friend to lean on? BUT..... when she said, "I keep thinking that maybe, ya know, maybe I haven't - .... - " , Clark was still able to finish Chloe's sentence with, "lost everyone." And it seemed that everytime there was deep emotion welling up inside him, he'd have to take several steps away from her to put distance between them.

One thing I could have done without was the Chimmy hook-up..... But I guess they really needed to rip CHloe open, perhaps so she can become just as emotionally detached as Clark has?

While it was great hearing Jimmy acknowledge a well-deserving Chloe as a hero, I think Clark saw her as screwing up because of letting her emotions cloud her judgment. (that whole bit where she split Davis apart with the Black-K is about the only thing that doesn't make any kind of sense to me. Why would she do that without Clark there to carry out his plan. What did she think was going to happen?:confused:)

[cworkman]

Well, Khyla, the suggestion that others who don't agree with your opinion didn't "pay attention to the show" are fairly insulting, though I'll not assume the worst and doubt that was your intention.

In fact, I paid very close attention to the show (as I'm sure did everyone who watched the show), enough to notice the plot holes without fanboyishly trying to wish them away by making up reasons why they weren't plot holes, reasons that were not stated by the producers nor stated within the episode itself. You have to go with what you're given, not with what other people want to be there but isn't.

[Mrs. Superman]

Well, Khyla, the suggestion that others who don't agree with your opinion didn't "pay attention to the show" are fairly insulting, though I'll not assume the worst and doubt that was your intention.

In fact, I paid very close attention to the show (as I'm sure did everyone who watched the show), enough to notice the plot holes without fanboyishly trying to wish them away by making up reasons why they weren't plot holes, reasons that were not stated by the producers nor stated within the episode itself. You have to go with what you're given, not with what other people want to be there but isn't.


True, TV shows are meant to entertain. But when TV shows are poorly written and/or inexplicable, I rarely find them entertaining. Good writing, performances, effects, etc., can add up to good television. The only thing I saw in SMALLVILLE's finale to warrant a positive response were the performances. By all means, when something is good, it should be praised. But when it goes wrong, people should feel welcome to voice a negative opinion about it. That's what freedom of speech is all about. Too often, unfortunately, people think they should have the freedom to voice an opinion, but that the opposing side should not. That's not what freedom of speech is all about.


Actually, the various Superman titles HAVE dealt with Jimmy's family at various points, and it's nothing like the family presented in DOOMSDAY.

The producers have claimed that they wanted to bring the show in line with the comic book mythology, and everything in DOOMSDAY was designed to do that. I've got almost every issue of Superman and Action going back to the early 1940s, as well as most issues of the other Superman titles. How is giving Lana a Kryptonite-laced power suit in line with comic book mythology? Or claiming that Jimmy had an older brother who also had the name James and was a Daily Planet photographer called Jimmy? How is having Green Arrow murder someone in line with comic book mythology? (The same goes with the dubious intentions of the Legion of Super Heroes.) I could go on forever, but I'm afraid I'd bore everyone to death.

In addition, I'm a writer/editor who has worked in the educational industry for over a decade, contributing both writing and editing to over a thousand textbooks in every discipline. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging when I say that; I only bring it up to provide background for why I can say that DOOMSDAY is a terribly written episode. Characters behaved out of character. For instance, throughout the entire season, the Davis Bloome persona is intrinsically good; he basically even saves Jimmy, despite the fact that Jimmy loves Chloe, just as he (Davis) does; and having the opportunity to destroy Jimmy would clear Davis's path to Chloe. But when he has the opportunity to kill Jimmy early on, he doesn't do so. Yet in a moment of passion he later kills Jimmy for the very reasons he would likely have done so early on, had he been evil or out of control in human persona. It simply doesn't ring true.

Clark has experienced numerous examples of humans who are good and humans who are bad, but his limited experience with Kryptonians is that they're killers. For instance, Zor-El, Doomsday, Zod, and Brainiac, as well as the two Kryptonians who came out of the ship at the beginning of Season 5, are all killers; not to menion, Clark believes his own biological father is responsible for the weak heart that later lead to the death of the adopted father. Yet because the human persona of Davis Bloome kills Jimmy, Clark comes to believe that he must desert being human and embrace being Kryptonian? This, despite the fact that Davis's Kryptonian side, Doomsday, has killed innumerable people and is far worse than Davis?

The explanation posited here as to Chloe's question about what happened to the Justice League does not ring plausible (in fact, I found the explanation rather confusing, almost an example of wish fulfillment; "I must find an explanation to make this work because there really isn't one otherwise").

Jimmy Olsen was introduced to the series several years ago as Jimmy Olsen, a young photographer for the Daily Planet, hoping to work his way up to the big leagues (hm, just like in the comic book). He was frequently presented as a sidekick to Lois and sometimes Clark. Yet the producers felt he was out of sync with comic book mythology because of his age, so they killed him off and introduced another Jimmy, one that, just as problematically, is TOO young. Jimmy in the comic book is about a decade younger than Clark, who in turn is slightly younger than Lois. Why is having a Jimmy who is too old any worse than one who is too young? And even on SMALLVILLE, I had the impression that Jimmy was, while not considerably younger than Clark, at least a few years. It certainly didn't hurt that Aaron Ashmore encapsulated everything that was familiar about the character as we know him from the comic books and previous programs. I'd go so far as to even suggest that Ashmore's Jimmy was closer to the comic book than any previous presentation of Jimmy. He was not a bumbling fool, but rather was a three-dimensional human being.

One has to wonder, did the producers really have an issue with Jimmy's age, or did they have some uncited problem with Aaron Ashmore and decided to find some way to write him out of the show? I don't know if I believe that, but there's something going on here. Most probably, it's simply that they'd promised a death for the finale, but they got so much negative feedback about the possibility that it might be Chloe (understandably, because I too love Chloe), that they decided to 'shock' the audience by making it an 'untouchable' mythos character. To soften it, they then retconned the character and made the claim that it was never the "real" Jimmy, which is both insulting and condescending to the show's (and the comic books') fans.

I can forgive a lot, including the very weak fight between Clark and Doomsday (killed by budgetary limits, I have no doubt). But the bait and switch they pulled with Jimmy is unforgivable and very well may result in me not returning to the show next season. I have NEVER missed an episode of this show since season one, I own all of the DVD sets, and I have ALWAYS believed Brian and Kelly the best writers to have ever worked on the show. (They have always had a superb and deft ability to combine action, romance, comedy, and drama into a near-perfect whole.) But unfortunately, they showed a major lapse in judgment with this final episode, one which really needs to be corrected if the show is to succeed next season.
All your posts have been SPOT ON! Thank you for articulating exactly why this episode upset so many fans, and why we feel compelled (and rightly so) to vent out our frustrations.

[fan of the man]

So what you guys are saying about Davis is that he can't snap and go crazy and start killing people because he was so good up til that point, well news flash many of your serial killers are like that, it take one thing to await the beast inside and when jealousy hit him it was enough to send him over board plus in some since it was his nature, because the beast that live within was part of him, it had to have some influrence on him.

Well guys ya argue on, I'm going on vacation for week, take care.

[LoD]

Cworkman, I'm not trying to pick on you but you made two points I've seen repeated elsewhere and would like to address.


For instance, throughout the entire season, the Davis Bloome persona is intrinsically good; he basically even saves Jimmy, despite the fact that Jimmy loves Chloe, just as he (Davis) does; and having the opportunity to destroy Jimmy would clear Davis's path to Chloe. But when he has the opportunity to kill Jimmy early on, he doesn't do so. Yet in a moment of passion he later kills Jimmy for the very reasons he would likely have done so early on, had he been evil or out of control in human persona. It simply doesn't ring true.

Davis has been shown all season to be obsessed with Chloe and capable of murder. Some fans assumed he was good and that's fine but don't ignore the many other fans who warned for months that Davis was a killer at heart. Maybe the writers left it somewhat ambiguous to build tension with Chloe but the clues were there and it wasn't OOC for Davis. I keep seeing this complaint but really I don't think people can blame the writers here when at least half of the audience saw it coming.



Clark has experienced numerous examples of humans who are good and humans who are bad, but his limited experience with Kryptonians is that they're killers. For instance, Zor-El, Doomsday, Zod, and Brainiac, as well as the two Kryptonians who came out of the ship at the beginning of Season 5, are all killers; not to menion, Clark believes his own biological father is responsible for the weak heart that later lead to the death of the adopted father. Yet because the human persona of Davis Bloome kills Jimmy, Clark comes to believe that he must desert being human and embrace being Kryptonian? This, despite the fact that Davis's Kryptonian side, Doomsday, has killed innumerable people and is far worse than Davis?

Good and evil never entered into Clark's decision. He is in the classic Spock dilemma between his logical alien side and emotional human one. Clark believes acting with mercy instead of judgment led to Jimmy's death. It is Chloe who says he's doing it all because of Davis. But Clark corrected her in that same discussion. Notice he didn't say he wanted to stop serving humanity (which would be the logical conclusion to make if he thought humans were evil). He said human emotions prevented him from helping more people. So Clark is choosing to become more detached from humanity in order to act more objectively in their best interest.

As to the rest, I liked AA's Jimmy,too, but I also believe them when they say trouble came up with DC. However, that's everyone prerogative to believe what they want since no one can actually know. I do agree that part of the appeal for them was likely the "shock" factor. Overall, they could have dealt with the problem better and, while I had no issue with the switch, I agree with you that they essentially pulled a fast one on the audience, thereby losing credibility.

[whitelight]

The producers have claimed that they wanted to bring the show in line with the comic book mythology, and everything in DOOMSDAY was designed to do that. I've got almost every issue of Superman and Action going back to the early 1940s, as well as most issues of the other Superman titles. How is giving Lana a Kryptonite-laced power suit in line with comic book mythology? Or claiming that Jimmy had an older brother who also had the name James and was a Daily Planet photographer called Jimmy? How is having Green Arrow murder someone in line with comic book mythology? (The same goes with the dubious intentions of the Legion of Super Heroes.) I could go on forever, but I'm afraid I'd bore everyone to death.

jimmy - i didn't know that they had background on jimmy's family...interesting
lana - yea i thought that was pretty bs how she finished off not going to lie there
green arrow - we know he didn't actually kill lex
legion - there doubt changed after clark taught them that (again this happens before the comics)



In addition, I'm a writer/editor who has worked in the educational industry for over a decade, contributing both writing and editing to over a thousand textbooks in every discipline. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging when I say that; I only bring it up to provide background for why I can say that DOOMSDAY is a terribly written episode. Characters behaved out of character. For instance, throughout the entire season, the Davis Bloome persona is intrinsically good; he basically even saves Jimmy, despite the fact that Jimmy loves Chloe, just as he (Davis) does; and having the opportunity to destroy Jimmy would clear Davis's path to Chloe. But when he has the opportunity to kill Jimmy early on, he doesn't do so. Yet in a moment of passion he later kills Jimmy for the very reasons he would likely have done so early on, had he been evil or out of control in human persona. It simply doesn't ring true.

that really cool about the writer/editor thing :D ....i'm and english major..still in university...but i am studying creative writing, (and i'm ironically horrible at spelling) :)

Davis - the whole time he's getting dark and darker (didn't you see that in turbulence?..watch that one again)....but at the same time he thought chole loved him as much as he loved her...that's what really set him off when he herd that she didn't love him but Jimmy instead.



Clark has experienced numerous examples of humans who are good and humans who are bad, but his limited experience with Kryptonians is that they're killers. For instance, Zor-El, Doomsday, Zod, and Brainiac, as well as the two Kryptonians who came out of the ship at the beginning of Season 5, are all killers; not to menion, Clark believes his own biological father is responsible for the weak heart that later lead to the death of the adopted father. Yet because the human persona of Davis Bloome kills Jimmy, Clark comes to believe that he must desert being human and embrace being Kryptonian? This, despite the fact that Davis's Kryptonian side, Doomsday, has killed innumerable people and is far worse than Davis?

... Clark always tried to stay positive about the human race beacuse in the beginning the Kryptonians clark met were bad and and he thought that all of his 'heart and goodness' came from his human side. but then he met his Rae, Kara, his mother and they told him how most Kryptonians were good, not power hungry mad psychos like the ones he's seen so far. Yes, he's seen both good and bad humans and Kryptonians but what he was starting to realize(even before this finale...as much as hate to say this watch bulletproof when chloe and clark are talking about lana getting in the way) was that his father might have been right about his human emotion (and if you watch bast episode when he's talking to Jor-el) and how it affected who he saved/hurt (eg. when lana died he was will to kill lex) Davis was like the final straw, It was not the faith in humans he was changing but his faith in his OWN humanity and how his emotions clouded his judgement. Davis was the one that effected him the most because HE is Kryptonian and once split from his Kryptonian side, Davis' HUMAN EMOTIONS were what drove him to kill jimmy because of what chole had said. Do you know how many times that could have been Clark when lana was with lex?



The explanation posited here as to Chloe's question about what happened to the Justice League does not ring plausible (in fact, I found the explanation rather confusing, almost an example of wish fulfillment; "I must find an explanation to make this work because there really isn't one otherwise").

...? honestly i don't understand how you don't understand....i mean how were they supposed to show them disappearing?



Jimmy Olsen was introduced to the series several years ago as Jimmy Olsen, a young photographer for the Daily Planet, hoping to work his way up to the big leagues (hm, just like in the comic book). He was frequently presented as a sidekick to Lois and sometimes Clark. Yet the producers felt he was out of sync with comic book mythology because of his age, so they killed him off and introduced another Jimmy, one that, just as problematically, is TOO young. Jimmy in the comic book is about a decade younger than Clark, who in turn is slightly younger than Lois. Why is having a Jimmy who is too old any worse than one who is too young? And even on SMALLVILLE, I had the impression that Jimmy was, while not considerably younger than Clark, at least a few years. It certainly didn't hurt that Aaron Ashmore encapsulated everything that was familiar about the character as we know him from the comic books and previous programs. I'd go so far as to even suggest that Ashmore's Jimmy was closer to the comic book than any previous presentation of Jimmy. He was not a bumbling fool, but rather was a three-dimensional human being.

i'm pretty sure the new jimmy wasn't TOO young....he looks like he can be 10 to 12 years old and the old jimmy was EXACTLY the same age....remember in season four when chole told lana she lost her virginity to a guy named jimmy??? they were both summer interns if anything he could have been older then chole and clark.
and does jimmy in the comics know about clarks secret? i don't think so plus he's suppose to IDOLIZE Clark from the very beginning ...does he do that? no not until he KNOWS that clark is the red blue blur that he starts fully idolizing him...i mean he jumps back and forth between being jealous of him and liking him.



One has to wonder, did the producers really have an issue with Jimmy's age, or did they have some uncited problem with Aaron Ashmore and decided to find some way to write him out of the show? I don't know if I believe that, but there's something going on here. Most probably, it's simply that they'd promised a death for the finale, but they got so much negative feedback about the possibility that it might be Chloe (understandably, because I too love Chloe), that they decided to 'shock' the audience by making it an 'untouchable' mythos character. To soften it, they then retconned the character and made the claim that it was never the "real" Jimmy, which is both insulting and condescending to the show's (and the comic books') fans.

really? you want to blame the death for a problem between the actor and producers? okay sure, i respect your idea...still even though i did love the old jimmy character and AA i still think it was a good idea for them to make a younger jimmy.



I can forgive a lot, including the very weak fight between Clark and Doomsday (killed by budgetary limits, I have no doubt). But the bait and switch they pulled with Jimmy is unforgivable and very well may result in me not returning to the show next season. I have NEVER missed an episode of this show since season one, I own all of the DVD sets, and I have ALWAYS believed Brian and Kelly the best writers to have ever worked on the show. (They have always had a superb and deft ability to combine action, romance, comedy, and drama into a near-perfect whole.) But unfortunately, they showed a major lapse in judgment with this final episode, one which really needs to be corrected if the show is to succeed next season.

Well there not going to bring jimmy back, what would make you want to watch the show again?



btw... And i do respect the freedom of speech and i'm pretty sure others do too. so they can rebuttal to what you have to say, no?

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----





Well actually it has been mentioned several times by the creators of the series that it is not a prequel, just a great story based loosely on Superman lore ;):
"...we’re telling not the back story or an origin, but a story,” Gough said. “It’s the idea that with great power comes great responsibility,... :
http://www.smeco.com/community/somdstories/gough.htm

It also has been referred to as an elseworld by the VP of Creative Affairs for DC Comics = http://www.smallvilleph.com/2009/03/gregory-noveck-talks-smallville/
Gregory Noveck, VP Creative Affairs DC Comics, talks Smallville



really? opps my bad...i thought they said somewhere that they were ....sorry :)

[Khyla]

Well, Khyla, the suggestion that others who don't agree with your opinion didn't "pay attention to the show" are fairly insulting, though I'll not assume the worst and doubt that was your intention.

I think you know that was not my intention at all, and I'm unhappy that you felt the need to present what I said in this distorted manner. :(

What I in fact said was that many ppl were expecting/demanding a lot more than what was promised, and saying that it was promised and never delivered,[/B]. Also as Whitelight pointed out, the majority of "reasons" ppl are giving as to why they are complaining and disappointed are totally unfounded and not based on what the show has actually given us, and she gave specific examples that can not be disputed, and proved that a lot of those who were dissatisfied with the finale gave "reasons that were not stated by the producers nor stated within the episode itself. You have to go with what you're given, not with what other people want to be there but isn't." ;) :)

[whitelight]

i would like to say i didn't think it was PERFECT....there were obviously some flaws...but i just didn't think it deserves a 1 that is all

[Supsfan]

Well actually it has been mentioned several times by the creators of the series that it is not a prequel, just a great story based loosely on Superman lore ;):
"...we’re telling not the back story or an origin, but a story,” Gough said. “It’s the idea that with great power comes great responsibility,... :
http://www.smeco.com/community/somdstories/gough.htm


Why doesn't it suprise me they use a Spiderman quote to talk about a Superman show, where the main character lives a life I would expect more from Peter Parker then Clark Kent.

Maybe they should have made a show focusing on Clark, Gwen Stacy and Doctor Octopus as there big 3

[Fox]

Okay, Frankly I'm a lurker, but as someone who appears to be in a minority for enjoying the S8 finale, and having read thru this thread, I had to chime in.

Frankly I expect anything i say to just basically be ignored.

Point 1. OH yeah, the finale was Choppier then veggies thru the dice-0-matic.
Point 2. No, no single thread of the season arc really was given it's due.

Okay, now WHY Neither of those points are wieghing down my liking this episode.

THis whole season of TV was mired and thrown asunder during the Fall Writers strike, heck at least two of my favorite show's didn't even get a full episode run and one of them (Eureka's) Finale was so.. rushed.

Frankly Everything in TV land devolved into anarchy the minute the Writers union went on strike. The fact they pulled it together THIS well is a miracle. Instead of the usual amount of time, they lost what was it, nearly 2 months of production time? (i'm presuming as i just can't recall clearly)

And also, I've Loved the "lower budget" episode people have mentioned, because the less flash ment MUCH more attention to the story and the character development. And with the fact that obviously studio's are looking to slash budgets, and i'm sure like most long running shows, as the leads stay longer, thier saleries increase, but overall budget stays the same.. it's just pure math.

But anyways, yeah the episode felt rushed, but frankly, it felt in tune with the rest of the 2nd half of the season (post strike i might add), but still had that focus of Clark trying to stay true to his motto of "save EVERYONE".

And while i agree Davis's final snap is far from a leap (we've all had moments in our lives where we've clung so hard onto something, a idea, belief ect, that to have it ripped away form us would drive us over the edge). I mean let's be fair, Davis had built Chloe up to be not only his obsessive love interest, but also his saviour. He'd built her up in his mind to be his one single link to his humanity and all that was good in him. Hearing her flat out admit she never loved him and only stayed with him to protect others, well that would sure drive me off that short cliff :D.

As Far as Clarks final stance, I doubt it will last.. Probably a chunk of next season, or least the opener will likely revolve around his squaring off the i assume person who came from the orb, (likely zod) and him realising that it's his human upbringing which gives him the inner strength to overcome him. It's not his powers that makes him super, it's the Man that makes him Superman. Just right now, he lost a friend, lost lois, and is doing something very human, Blaming himself, doubting his choices.

Oliver said it best, "sometimes, not everyone can be saved", and alas Davis, was not the model of a good pcyche. Not saying he is evil, just horridly bent but what was thrust upon him. And I'm chalking this up to just another step clark has to take to reach the hero he'll be.

And far as the jimmy swap, I just can't see the stretch (just the poorly way it was written). I myself use my middle name often, I've got two cousins both named after same uncle (both names walter by thier father, so one technically is walter the 3rd). Frankly i never was comfortable having jimmy Clarks rough age, as it was just too in the face of cannon, as in every continuity i've ever read (golden thru modern), JBO was always the "new kid" in the press room when clark n lois were already established journalists.

OH and yes in the past they have delt with James Olsen's family, predominatly IN the 80's which is not part of the current mythology. In most he was just the "cub" who idolized lois n clark, I mean there was a whole section of the "superman family" title dedicated just to james olson. his Estranged family etc, but that's neither here nor there, as this is NOT the comic continueity and was never ment to be.

I've just chocked that any many of the other things that fly in the face of cannon as whimsical choices made to Tell THIS version.

I knew from one of the first directors interviews back in season 1 that this was NOT the origin story (not that there's a diffinitive total one any more having had DC restart things how many times now?).

At best this is a Elseworlds Show. Showing the progressing of Clark kent into super man in THAT universe, so all bets are off.

In summery.

Episode was decent. I'm not about to nominate it for anything, for that This whole episode will have had to been stretched into being both the hanger & opener of S9. Doing it all in 1 hr, just too much, in to little space.

But there was alot of good bits in the episode, which given what i expect of my TV (aka entertainment. I still believe the point of fantasy tv is to watch, switch your brain OFF and let yourself just enjoy.)

*shrugs* make what you will of my comments, I just don't care. I've sorta given up on the whole concept of "fandom" when it started sliding from "rally together n enjoy" to "rally together n torch it" mentality. I guess i'm just getting old and am pining for the day when fan's got together, looked at our obsession and said stuff like "yeah that part was really lame, but it just looked cool" (obvious classic trek reference)

[Violet-Shadow]

I read your post to "everyone knew deep down he wasn't the real Jimmy Olsen." NOT TRUE! I didn't know deep down that he wasn't the real Jimmy Olsen. I think I can safely argue that others agree with me. The finale was disappointing for many reasons but this was the LIE that ticked this former fan off. Jimmy Olsen was featured in a s7 DVD featurette with other Jimmy Olsen's. Obviously, he WAS meant to be JO but the producers retconned it.

Went back and read more of your post...as for one of your final comments, I disagree, this show is not about Superman. I'm not sure it ever was. I know a lot of people will still consider this one more version of Superman but I never will.

Too harsh? No. I don't think people are being too harsh at all.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


i would like to say i didn't think it was PERFECT....there were obviously some flaws...but i just didn't think it deserves a 1 that is all

I gave it a five even though I hated it. It had okay qualities. Just a few, and mainly one, things overshadowed the good things and turned me against this show.

[Mrs. Superman]

I read your post to "everyone knew deep down he wasn't the real Jimmy Olsen." NOT TRUE! I didn't know deep down that he wasn't the real Jimmy Olsen. I think I can safely argue that others agree with me. The finale was disappointing for many reasons but this was the LIE that ticked this former fan off. Jimmy Olsen was featured in a s7 DVD featurette with other Jimmy Olsen's. Obviously, he WAS meant to be JO but the producers retconned it.

Went back and read more of your post...as for one of your final comments, I disagree, this show is not about Superman. I'm not sure it ever was. I know a lot of people will still consider this one more version of Superman but I never will.

Too harsh? No. I don't think people are being too harsh at all.


ITA! Being lied to is the worst part of it all. And it was quite obvious, at least to me, that he was portraying the iconic JO, all the way until Doomsday retconned it.

----- Added 53 Seconds later -----


Why doesn't it suprise me they use a Spiderman quote to talk about a Superman show, where the main character lives a life I would expect more from Peter Parker then Clark Kent.

Maybe they should have made a show focusing on Clark, Gwen Stacy and Doctor Octopus as there big 3
:rotfl:I wouldnt put anything past them at this point.

[Tatiana]

I've been a smallville fan since the beginning and i usually agree to what people have to say about which episodes did the major suckage (requiem, power) and which rocked the house (committed, bride)

But after seeing what people were saying about this season finale i decided to join the forum because i think that people really only focused on what was physically going on in that episode and not connecting them to anything that was happening before. I'm not say that this finale was perfect there were some flaws but it wasn't a total disaster!

So here are some points i have, some i already made on the forum (but i don't think any one read it which kinda makes me sad :( ) and some weren't


FIRST POINT: THE FIGHT
First i'd like to say that i don't remember them saying anything about an epic fight.....

Now this was i think was the major turn-off for most people and i agree it should have been longer but i would only add 2-3 more min to it nothing more and here's why: I don't think it was ever about the fighting because honestly Clark is obviously not ready to face Doomsday he's not Superman yet therefore it's not suppose to be epic. Another reason is that I don't think they wanted to damage either of the characters because Doomsday needs to be 'intact' for the actual fight when he comes back to fight with Superman, so neither of them could have died (which some people are saying should have happened, which doesn't make sense at all) Also, given the amount of time they had and the amount of money, they couldn't make a huge fight scene like the one in the movies because lets face it, it's a tv show. Also, the episode isn't just called doomsday because he was in it....(see point ten)

IT also ties up the mythos ( or one part of it ) of how lex finds doomsday deep beneath the earths surface. So no Doomsday isn't dead, he's just buried underground and now we know why and how. :D




SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was most crucial because i think everyone knew deep down that this wasn’t “the real jimmy”. He was much to old. and the whole Henry James thing….my brother actually uses his middle name as a first name and no one really knows his first name, other then his family. So i know that they were pushing it but it is possible that he used his middle name as his first.

What i was hoping for was it to be a cousin or chole’s baby, but since they already used her as lois’ cousin i could see how that wouldn’t work. But still a brother with the same name in his name (if that makes sense) is sort of weird, would have been better if it was a younger cousin of “Henry James”.

Oh and everyone who is complaining that "Chole doesn't know Jimmy's family is dumb", must go back and watch committed when “jimmy” and chole discuss his father, and we find out that chole never really met his parents because he was ashamed and he wanted to fit in at the daily planet. Therefore it does make sense that chole doesn’t really know and/or never met his family before and why they don't even come to the wedding.

AND they never called him james Bartholomew olsen on the show...just James Olsen in season 6 episode 1 NO middle name was mentioned. Remember the whole image thing? He probably used his middle name to start up new and fresh at the planet and make a name for himself.

Also as soon and "jimmy" found out about Clark you had to know HE DEFINITELY was going to die because the real Jimmy Olsen doesn't know that Clark is Superman.

I think that what they did to his character and how he died was beautifully sad and he went full circle and after a while people will except it. He helped Chloe bloom as a character and get over clark as a love interest.




THIRD POINT: THE WATCH TOWER
This one was slightly obvious.....

He bought the watch tower BEFORE the wedding and the tower as jimmy said "is a run down place that world had forgotten about" so it probably isn't as expensive since it was a run down building. chole didn't know about it because it was a surprise present from jimmy so the whole paying the bills wouldn't make sense. and the drug deals....jimmy told clark that he could bring himself to get rid of it....so that blows that. and the whole can't pay for his car...you know that was all BS he just needed money for drugs and (i'll say it again)since he couldn't bring himself to sell the apartment or loft, he went to Oliver with some lame excuse.




FOURTH POINT: CLARK'S ENDING SPEECH
This was the most vital. After so much pain in his life clark finally goes overboard...emotionally. Which this season was building up to, the "darker side of Clark" Him saying clark kent is dead is basically saying that his human side his dead (just like the beginning of season 4 but only this time with a choice)If you still don't see it.... Okay put yourself in his position....you go tell jimmy to protect chole and davis and to trust me...jimmy does and then davis kills him....i would totally blame myself! i put him in that position and especially when you have all the powers that clark has that could have prevent something like that from happening.

AND Let me make this also clear he doesn't blame HUMANITY he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way.




FIFTH POINT: BAD CLIFFHANGERS
The funny thing about this is that people who are asking a ton of questions about what is happening are the ones saying that it was a bad cliff hanger or there isn't one.... ROTFL

so cliffhangers aren't, lois missing, chole losing everyone, jimmy's brother (does he come into the story yet? highly doubt it but you never know) and that whole purple orb dude (ZOD), clark "dying" in a symbolic sense, OH! and Clark not knowing how he got out of the tunnel(maybe he flew?!?!?! :D), clark disappearing?(does that mean anything?) and what about JL??? ...doesn't anyone want to find out what that all means? That's the whole point of a cliffhanger so that we don't know everything, that pieces of the story are missing.

So questions that will most likely be answered are....How is Clark going to start behaving? is he finally going to the fortress to completely finish his training? is he going to be a colder person(or alien)? is he going to start killing evil people? What about lois? Where did the JL go?



SIXTH POINT: OTHER SUPERHEROES
Sometimes actions speak louder words? They were there to help him get rid of doomsday they weren't the main part of the story. Clark, JImmy, Chloe and Doomsday were the main story lines, all the others are subplots hence why they are special guests or supporting casts, to help SUPPORT the story. They were there to help him in the background, they were at jimmy's funeral, and (this just me) it's always nice to see a superhero (other then clark) on smallville :D




SEVENTH POINT: ZOD SUCKS
LOL i find this so fun that every one hates Zod...but seriously think about this...

Zod did create Doomsday. I mean think of it the only reason why Clark is on earth is because of Zod. Almost every season is more or less him preparing to protect the world from or trying to defeat the many different things Zod has created (and actually it also about going up against Lex which is basically a human version of Zod). So Zod is, in my opinion, one of the BIGGEST rivals that Clark/Superman has. so wouldn’t Zod in a way be Clark’s ultimate rival?





EIGHTH POINT: CLARK FLYING
This slightly bother some...

I sort of understand everyone’s need for Clark to fly…this whole series is about Clark BECOMING superman…not Clark as superman I think the whole super jump thing is getting bigger and longer, which is probably how he starts flying....with all the kryptonians we’ve seen on smallville, they’re all older, and haven’t been raised on earth and therefore it’s easier for them to fly.

But even then....i don't think it was just me who thought it...but Clark JUMPING from the center of the city all the way to the out skirts in a building? I don't think that was a jump....i think he did fly...or semi flew.



NINTH POINT: ROKK'S ADVICE
He was only in the beginning because he didn't want to mess with time too much, it was only to give clark a warning that he is going to die. That is the only reason how Clark knew that he had to go after doomsday and that nothing else could on earth could stop him. So Clark does in a way listens to ROKK.




TENTH POINT: WHY IT'S CALLED DOOMSDAY
It's not only called doomsday because its has the character in it but because of the emotional doom in it. The show is not just about his physical strength anymore...we know he has that. It's about how he's changing emotionally (hence the slightly emo ending) It's a more mature show and has more intense emotional cliffhangers rather then just cutting it in a middle of a fight, they cut it right when clark feels the weakest about humanity. Clark has been through so much emotional drama you can see his just as sick of it as everyone else watching is :P




ELEVENTH POINT: DAVIS THE PSYCHO
I think that that was played out well. Because in the end that's what really turned Clark off of his human side and that he actually made a mistake about what davis is. Davis was basically evil through and through..rotten to the core.




WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE TO MAKE IT BETTER
What it boils down to is it being tooo choppy and not enough time to explain everything clearer. It should have been a two part episode, probably would have made alot more people happy, more lois before she disappears, more jl, more of everything :D



in conclusion, EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH SESASON 8 OVER AGAIN (except for the lana parts because there not really important...:P)because you are missing little deatils i probably need to too :D

and don't forget... THIS WHOLE SERIES IS ABOUT CLARK BECOMING SUPERMAN AND THE STORY BEFORE THE COMICS…..IT’S JUST A SET UP TO THE REAL DEAL :)

and if anyone doesn't understand something i've said or has something else that they hate about this season just let me know :)


I liked your post a lot, you really put into words all my thoughts, thank you. Although I would have added I really did love the conversation Lois and Clark had on the phone, I am glad they are pushing that and I loved to see Clark's concerned faced for Lois' safe when he supersped to the scene where Doomsday was destroying everything. Makes sense why he would think she might be dead, she wasn't there and she had told him she would meet him at that phonebooth. He was also looking for her in the end. I loved also the face Clark made at the end of their conversation when he hanged up, so serious, determined and sexy :) Anyway thanks for the post

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Ausiello said it quite a few times. And even if he hadn't, it was heavily implied within the shows context.


I wouldn't believe everything Ausiello says, I believe more what Sam had said and he never really did say epic battle, he said just big fight, it was a big fight, poor Clarkie almost lost his teeth lol

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


Again, they don't need to explain Doomsday at all. If they needed Doomsday as a point of making Clark into Superman then that's just bad writing and simply jump the shark. The promise of announcing Doomsday at any point is that there will be a fight. Fine, if it's suppose to setup the Death of Superman, but there needed to be a fight. There wasn't any.


there was a big fight, it was as big as it could have been with their budget, they did fight, bigger than in Bride, at least Clark got up this time and took him up up and away and boom, locked him down down, we'll see how Doomsday comes out of that, he will be maaaaadddd, watch out Clark!

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----


since the beginning season 1 episode one...i've seen some amazing fight scenes (bizzaro was and still is my fav :D) and i wasn't saying that this was one of them i'm just trying to tell you a possible reason why they didn't have such a long/ intense fight. basically the reasoning behind why they didn't make it so long



I liked the fights with Bizarro too, that is also why I think Doomsday will be back as Bizarro did, and not all of their fights were long, actually their fight at the beginning of season 7 was longer than the one they had at the end of the episode, when he punched him and sent him fly up for MM to take him. His fight at the end in Persona wasn't that long either and I remember people being mad Lana had killed him and not Clark with the blue Kryptonite. I am definitely looking forward to see what they do with Clark in season 9, maybe he'll also show more skin as Kal-EL yay!! haha one can dream

[Jigga]

It's still a pretty bad excuse. Budget. Again, why bring in Doomsday, essentially a destroyer of cities, into a show that has zero budget? All they had to do was show Clark throwing a punch, they failed to do even that. Apparently, they had enough budget to show Rokk flying through Metropolis at the beginning. Now, they not only don't know how to write a coherent episode, they can't deal with how to spend a budget.

The Rokk plot point was easily one of the weakest cameos, on top of the unbelievably lame JL. They could have taken the money for those guys and used it for the fight.

[whitelight]

Went back and read more of your post...as for one of your final comments, I disagree, this show is not about Superman. I'm not sure it ever was. I know a lot of people will still consider this one more version of Superman but I never will..


okay...did you really read it because that not what i said....THIS IS WHAT I SAID



THIS WHOLE SERIES IS ABOUT CLARK BECOMING SUPERMAN

so your right it's not about superman....

how can a stress my comment any further - it's about CLARK BECOMING superman not about superman

[Bre723]

Well said and I LOVE your avi :).

[Tatiana]

Oh I loved to see Rokk, his flying was cool, different...I loved seeing Bart too and his sense of humor, I have to say I would have prefered to see Cyborg instead of Black Canary but hey...at least I got one.

[Violet-Shadow]

okay...did you really read it because that not what i said....THIS IS WHAT I SAID

so your right it's not about superman....

how can a stress my comment any further - it's about CLARK BECOMING superman not about superman

I did read it, I paraphrased what you wrote. I really think it's the same thing, but I'll rephrase. This is a show that's SUPPOSED to be about Clark becoming Superman but it's not even that to me. IMO, this show will NEVER fit into the Superman lore at all. I understand that you feel differently.

[Jade4813]

I'm sorry, you lost me when you said that most people knew Jimmy wasn't Jimmy because he was much too old.

If you look around this board, I think you'll find that MOST people are STILL convinced Jimmy was Jimmy and cry "BS" on the assertion he was not. And, honestly, as others have pointed out, given the NUMEROUS flaws with the show, it's hardly logical to cry foul loudest on his age. Lana in the Superman comics certainly isn't SuperLana. Does that mean everyone "knows" she's not the "real" Lana because she's got powers that make her more powerful than Superman?

And I am almost a lawyer; this logic just makes no sense to me. I appreciate your points, but there are flaws in them and thus the general disagreement.

[whitelight]

I did read it, I paraphrased what you wrote. I really think it's the same thing, but I'll rephrase. This is a show that's SUPPOSED to be about Clark becoming Superman but it's not even that to me. IMO, this show will NEVER fit into the Superman lore at all. I understand that you feel differently.

sorry...just that i've herd others say differently...so when i saw that...i'm sorry i know i seem one sided but i do understand where your coming from. i was like that when they killed lady meriden in the bbc version of robin hood...but it was worse...they didn't have a replacement for her

[Jade4813]

All your posts have been SPOT ON! Thank you for articulating exactly why this episode upset so many fans, and why we feel compelled (and rightly so) to vent out our frustrations.

Yes, exactly. Though it does always amuse me when people put it down to shipper bias or some such nonsense. :lol: Because there's just no WAY someone could believe it was bad writing overall if there wasn't a shipping motive beneath that assertion.

[Mrs. Superman]

I did read it, I paraphrased what you wrote. I really think it's the same thing, but I'll rephrase. This is a show that's SUPPOSED to be about Clark becoming Superman but it's not even that to me. IMO, this show will NEVER fit into the Superman lore at all. I understand that you feel differently.
It is the same thing. Clark Kent becoming Superman is part of the Superman story. Which is why all this must make sense with the mythos, and I agree that this show will never accomplish that.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Yes, exactly. Though it does always amuse me when people put it down to shipper bias or some such nonsense. :lol: Because there's just no WAY someone could believe it was bad writing overall if there wasn't a shipping motive beneath that assertion.
:lol: Yeah, I never understood that either.

[Violet-Shadow]

It is the same thing. Clark Kent becoming Superman is part of the Superman story. Which is why all this must make sense with the mythos, and I agree that this show will never accomplish that.

It won't. It hasn't time and time again. This was just the lowest blow, IMO.

[whitelight]

I'm sorry, you lost me when you said that most people knew Jimmy wasn't Jimmy because he was much too old.

If you look around this board, I think you'll find that MOST people are STILL convinced Jimmy was Jimmy and cry "BS" on the assertion he was not. And, honestly, as others have pointed out, given the NUMEROUS flaws with the show, it's hardly logical to cry foul loudest on his age. Lana in the Superman comics certainly isn't SuperLana. Does that mean everyone "knows" she's not the "real" Lana because she's got powers that make her more powerful than Superman?

And I am almost a lawyer; this logic just makes no sense to me. I appreciate your points, but there are flaws in them and thus the general disagreement.

what are my other flaws... i would gladly like to know....

and i'm new here so i've never really had a chance to fully voice my concern for the whole superlana which i do agree is superlame which is why i agree that jimmy had to die because it just didn't make sense...it never said jimmy was married to anyone in the comics did it?

[amberdawn]

I'm sorry, you lost me when you said that most people knew Jimmy wasn't Jimmy because he was much too old.


I have to laugh at that, because apparently Darren Swimmer didn't know either. You know, a writer of Smallville.

"As an actor, Aaron Ashmore has been such a great surprise because that is a role everybody knows. He made it his own and hit it out of the park." -Smallville writer Darren Swimmer

I'm not directing this at you Jade, just anyone who says it was obvious to everyone.

[Sports72Xtrm]

So if they bring in this new younger Jimmy Olsen next year will no one give him a chance? Frankly, this young Jimmy Olsen can accomplish something that Superman Returns failed to do, which is a concept of having a child see Superman for the first time from the eyes of a child (with out the whole being illegitimate child of Superman though). I think Jimmy Olsen would finding something like Superman or RBB for the first time would be something nice I guess. I will miss AA, but I'm willing to give this new Smallville lore a try.

[whitelight]

I have to laugh at that, because apparently Darren Swimmer didn't know either. You know, a writer of Smallville.

"As an actor, Aaron Ashmore has been such a great surprise because that is a role everybody knows. He made it his own and hit it out of the park." -Smallville writer Darren Swimmer

I'm not directing this at you Jade, just anyone who says it was obvious to everyone.

really laughing? can you be any colder?

[Violet-Shadow]

really laughing? can you be any colder?

I believe that Amber is laughing at Swimmer, the producer of SV who has proved himself a liar.

[whitelight]

I believe that Amber is laughing at Swimmer, the producer of SV who has proved himself a liar.

oh really? i was pretty sure that it was directed at me :( ....i did say that every one should have know it wasn't jimmy hence the "obvious" comment amber wrote

[Violet-Shadow]

oh really? i was pretty sure that it was directed at me :( ....i did say that every one should have know it wasn't jimmy hence the "obvious" comment amber wrote

I guess I should let Amber answer for herself....I just read her quote that way.

[amberdawn]

Yes, that was directed at you whitelight. I'm sorry, but it NEVER obvious that he wasn't Jimmy. Never.

My intention wasn't to be mean, but what you said is just not true.

[whitelight]

Yes, that was directed at you whitelight. I'm sorry, but it NEVER obvious that he wasn't Jimmy. Never.

My intention wasn't to be mean, but what you said is just not true.

that your opinion...i'll respect that...

[Tatiana]

well it wasn't obvious to me he wasn't Jimmy but I agree with everything else Whitelight said, I can take the twist, I'll miss Aaron though

[cworkman]

I'm sorry, you lost me when you said that most people knew Jimmy wasn't Jimmy because he was much too old.

If you look around this board, I think you'll find that MOST people are STILL convinced Jimmy was Jimmy and cry "BS" on the assertion he was not. And, honestly, as others have pointed out, given the NUMEROUS flaws with the show, it's hardly logical to cry foul loudest on his age. Lana in the Superman comics certainly isn't SuperLana. Does that mean everyone "knows" she's not the "real" Lana because she's got powers that make her more powerful than Superman?

And I am almost a lawyer; this logic just makes no sense to me. I appreciate your points, but there are flaws in them and thus the general disagreement.

Beautiful, Jade, and I mean that in all sincerity!

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----


I think you know that was not my intention at all, and I'm unhappy that you felt the need to present what I said in this distorted manner. :(

What I in fact said was that many ppl were expecting/demanding a lot more than what was promised, and saying that it was promised and never delivered,[/b]. Also as Whitelight pointed out, the majority of "reasons" ppl are giving as to why they are complaining and disappointed are totally unfounded and not based on what the show has actually given us, and she gave specific examples that can not be disputed, and proved that a lot of those who were dissatisfied with the finale gave "reasons that were not stated by the producers nor stated within the episode itself. You have to go with what you're given, not with what other people want to be there but isn't." ;) :)

Actually, I didn't mischaracterize anything. Reread the first line of your post and you'll see to what I was referring. I even followed up my initial comment with a line suggesting that I did not believe you intentionally insult others who didn't agree with you!

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

Whitelight, I understand how difficult it is to get spelling correct. Ever since I learned shorthand, my spelling has been shot. Still, plenty of people who are bad at spelling have gotten exceptional jobs as teachers, writers, and editors. The key is just to doublecheck everything (which sometimes takes the fun out of it).

[Jade4813]

Since you were curious to know what other flaws I found with your argument, I thought I'd go back and address each point! I may not get to all of these now, since I'm leaving shortly to go on a 6 hour drive, but I'll get done as much as I can!


FIRST POINT: THE FIGHT
First i'd like to say that i don't remember them saying anything about an epic fight.....

Now this was i think was the major turn-off for most people and i agree it should have been longer but i would only add 2-3 more min to it nothing more and here's why: I don't think it was ever about the fighting because honestly Clark is obviously not ready to face Doomsday he's not Superman yet therefore it's not suppose to be epic. Another reason is that I don't think they wanted to damage either of the characters because Doomsday needs to be 'intact' for the actual fight when he comes back to fight with Superman, so neither of them could have died (which some people are saying should have happened, which doesn't make sense at all) Also, given the amount of time they had and the amount of money, they couldn't make a huge fight scene like the one in the movies because lets face it, it's a tv show. Also, the episode isn't just called doomsday because he was in it....(see point ten)

IT also ties up the mythos ( or one part of it ) of how lex finds doomsday deep beneath the earths surface. So no Doomsday isn't dead, he's just buried underground and now we know why and how. :D

I think other people have mentioned this, but I have the same problem they do. The problem is, of course, that they brought in Doomsday to begin with. Here's the thing: they didn't need to use that villain. There are scads of others, and they could even have had the love story with Chloe.

I agree with you that it wasn't "time" to have the Superman/Doomsday fight, and if you track down a thread about whose name Clark will say during the fight, you'll find my issues with them bringing him in because I HAVE those problems. But they brought him in. And, let's not kid ourselves, the reason they did was because they knew the name was so well-known and exactly why. When they introduced Doomsday, they did it because they KNEW that people would say, "Oh! The man who killed Superman!" They not only knew it; they were banking on it.

But they never intended to give people that becuase it wasn't "time." Actually, and more realistically, it was probably due to the budget. But if you don't have the budget to do something like that - particularly when you're USING it because you know it'll draw people who want to see the story they've heard about - then you shouldn't do it. Just like if you only have a $1,000,000 budget, you probably shouldn't try to recreate Peter Jackson's LotR because you won't do it justice and you have to know that if you have any kind of awareness of how these things work.

They brought in Doomsday because they knew - they HAD to know - that the people who would recognize the name would remember why they knew the name to begin with, and after losing MR and KK, they had to be banking on that to not lose too many viewers so they could get another season. But then they disappointed with - what - three punches and a tackle or something? It wasn't even a good "this is the fight we have for now and we'll get to a better one when they're older." It was just made of epic fail.

Yet again, comics fans got played. And wow are we sick of being played by this show.


SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was most crucial because i think everyone knew deep down that this wasn’t “the real jimmy”. He was much to old. and the whole Henry James thing….my brother actually uses his middle name as a first name and no one really knows his first name, other then his family. So i know that they were pushing it but it is possible that he used his middle name as his first.

What i was hoping for was it to be a cousin or chole’s baby, but since they already used her as lois’ cousin i could see how that wouldn’t work. But still a brother with the same name in his name (if that makes sense) is sort of weird, would have been better if it was a younger cousin of “Henry James”.

Oh and everyone who is complaining that "Chole doesn't know Jimmy's family is dumb", must go back and watch committed when “jimmy” and chole discuss his father, and we find out that chole never really met his parents because he was ashamed and he wanted to fit in at the daily planet. Therefore it does make sense that chole doesn’t really know and/or never met his family before and why they don't even come to the wedding.

AND they never called him james Bartholomew olsen on the show...just James Olsen in season 6 episode 1 NO middle name was mentioned. Remember the whole image thing? He probably used his middle name to start up new and fresh at the planet and make a name for himself.

Also as soon and "jimmy" found out about Clark you had to know HE DEFINITELY was going to die because the real Jimmy Olsen doesn't know that Clark is Superman.

I think that what they did to his character and how he died was beautifully sad and he went full circle and after a while people will except it. He helped Chloe bloom as a character and get over clark as a love interest.

I've said a good deal about this already, but to expound...

We have a very creative fandom. Look at the Chlois theory; there are a number of people who delve deep into the series to try to find "clues" and "subtext." And yet I have YET to find anyone who can say that they saw this one coming. So to add to the crappyness of what they did, we have the added LIE that it had been planned all along. I cry BS, because that's what it is. If it had been planned all along, you'd think there would be some sort of clue they'd have introduced BEFORE the finale, right? But if there were any, it seems NOBODY picked up on it. And with as much as people are willing to take the SMALLEST THING and RUN with it (look into "death anvil" conversations for this), I find that so completely implausible that there isn't actually a WORD for it.

So there's that.

Also, I'd happy argue against your "Chloe blooms" as a character because of this argument, and I'll even try to be polite as I do it.

Chloe was treated HORRIBLY this season. They got her to agree to the proposal and tried to sell us on the idea that she really loved Jimmy. Then, during Lana's arc, she came off as the worst wife ever, having coffee in town while her COUSIN is sitting by her HUSBAND'S side. Okay...

Then she takes DAVIS - a man she hadn't met that long before - side over Jimmy's. Now, yes, he was in the hospital and so it was plausible that he was on drugs. But remember Tomb? Chloe saw something and she was RIGHT and she KNEW how it felt not to be believed. And she didn't even give Jimmy a SECOND THOUGHT as to whether or not he was right. She jumped on the "he's wrong" bandwagon and HUGGED DAVIS RIGHT OUTSIDE HER HUSBAND'S DOOR. And let's not pretend that there was NO attraction between Chloe/Davis and that she did it ALL for Clark because they clearly INTENTIONALLY showed that she had two motives there.

She had no faith in Jimmy. She didn't even give him a chance. And what's worse than that? He was absolutely 100% RIGHT.

Oh, and then she tasers her recovering husband to protect Davis. Now let's think again; they want us to believe it was "all for Clark." Right. Pull the other one.

She kept Doomsday in her basement, she ran off with him, and she stopped Clark from putting him in the only prison that could hold him. And this man, incidentally, had killed 50+ others.

She made NUMEROUS mistakes this season, and that's absolutely fine. I could get behind that. But in the finale, Chloe didn't "bloom" or "blossom" or do anything other than be what people around here call "Lanafied." Growing, blooming, these things would mean she was shown to be wrong, she would recognize this, she would learn from it, she would grow from the experience. Look at what happened after the betrayal. Now, it wasn't handled as well as it could be back then, but at least then there was a RECOGNITION on the part of other characters and herself that what she did was WRONG and they showed her realizing that she had to make up for that.

Here, they have Jimmy paint her as a "hero" and we're asked to believe that she didn't do anything wrong here. And she did. But only the audience will see that, because according to the show, she was right.

THAT is not "blooming." That is not using Jimmy's death to cause her to "bloom." That's using Jimmy's death to ask the audience to believe that Chloe's actions were heroic, not fundamentally flawed. Even if they had someone say, "You had heroic intentions, but you were wrong in how you went about it" and she said "yes, and I've learned not to put my trust in the wrong person as readily as I did here" that would have been better. But nope! We're just asked to believe she was heroic - in the face of all evidence to show that she was making some pretty horrible choices - and that's that. There will be no consequences for her; there will be no growth. It will all be swept under the rug and everyone will pretend that it never happened. Or, if it is addressed, they'll be all like, "Well, we were wrong not to see that Chloe was making the bestest choices ever and we should totally be cool with everything she did so we are!"

That's not weak writing, it's BAD writing. It's BAD characterization. It's not growth; it's what happens to Mary Sues.

I was hoping, if Chloe were to stick around, that we'd have this realization and that there would be some character growth here. I actually loved her back when she would make mistakes and recognize it and try to make up for it. And I hated Lana back then, because she would make mistakes and everyone would say that they hadn't been mistakes and to the extent that anything wrong had been done, THEY had been to blame.

They have now done with Chloe what they used to do with Lana, and I now loathe Chloe as much as I did Lana back then.

It's not "blooming". It's turning a blind eye to the story that's been told for the course of the season.

I'll have to do the rest of the points either tonight after I get home or tomorrow after work! Sorry to have to stop half-way but...as it is now, I won't get in until after 1 am. :(

[LJ-90]

So, I'm bored...let's see your points then:


FIRST POINT: THE FIGHT
First i'd like to say that i don't remember them saying anything about an epic fight.....

Let's see...

Are Clark and Doomsday throwing down in the finale?
Brian Peterson: It's what everybody has probably been watching for the whole season. There will be a big throwdown between Doomsday and Clark.
Kelly Souders: Clark meets his match.

They told us they'll show us a epic fight, do they deliver? No.


IT also ties up the mythos ( or one part of it ) of how lex finds doomsday deep beneath the earths surface. So no Doomsday isn't dead, he's just buried underground and now we know why and how

Actually in both Superman/Doomsday and in "The Death of Superman" comic, Doomsday is buried by alien tech, so...it only ties up the mythos in the surface...


SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was most crucial because i think everyone knew deep down that this wasn’t “the real jimmy”.

You know, first of all nobody "knew" that this wasn't the real Jimmy. He wasn't exactly like his comic counterpart, yes, but again, who in this show is?
And I'll show you another quote, showing that even the writters believed this was the real Jimbo:

"As an actor, Aaron Ashmore has been such a great surprise because that is a role everybody knows. He made it his own and hit it out of the park." -Smallville writer Darren Swimmer
So, I believe that shows that nobody expected this Jimmy to be fake.
Not even the writters.
Last minute retcon that they pulled out of their as*es.


What i was hoping for was it to be a cousin or chole’s baby, but since they already used her as lois’ cousin i could see how that wouldn’t work. But still a brother with the same name in his name (if that makes sense) is sort of weird, would have been better if it was a younger cousin of “Henry James”.

It's not even weird, it's sick. It's sad to think that a little boy will try to live the life of his deceased big brother...so, GOOD JOB PS!


THIRD POINT: THE WATCH TOWER
This one was slightly obvious.....
He bought the watch tower BEFORE the wedding and the tower as jimmy said "is a run down place that world had forgotten about" so it probably isn't as expensive since it was a run down building. chole didn't know about it because it was a surprise present from jimmy so the whole paying the bills wouldn't make sense. and the drug deals....jimmy told clark that he could bring himself to get rid of it....so that blows that. and the whole can't pay for his car...you know that was all BS he just needed money for drugs and (i'll say it again)since he couldn't bring himself to sell the apartment or loft, he went to Oliver with some lame excuse.


This one doesn't bothers me...although, and I know this because I used to live with a person who was addicted, when you have an addiction you don't stop at anything to get your stuff, anything.
So why keep something you'll never use and only bring you memories about your ex? Someone who didn't trust you and was one of the reason you started with the pills in the first place?
It doesn't bothers me too much, but they could use a better excuse.


FOURTH POINT: CLARK'S ENDING SPEECH
This was the most vital. After so much pain in his life clark finally goes overboard...emotionally. Which this season was building up to, the "darker side of Clark" Him saying clark kent is dead is basically saying that his human side his dead (just like the beginning of season 4 but only this time with a choice)If you still don't see it.... Okay put yourself in his position....you go tell jimmy to protect chole and davis and to trust me...jimmy does and then davis kills him....i would totally blame myself! i put him in that position and especially when you have all the powers that clark has that could have prevent something like that from happening.
AND Let me make this also clear he doesn't blame HUMANITY he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way.

It doesn't bother that much, but I do disagree that this season was "darker side of Clark", this season was suposed to be about "Clark Kent becoming Superman"...the rest happened once they knew they would get a season 9...so yeah, the speech doesn't bother me, but I do disagree with you in that point.


FIFTH POINT: BAD CLIFFHANGERS
The funny thing about this is that people who are asking a ton of questions about what is happening are the ones saying that it was a bad cliff hanger or there isn't one.... ROTFL
so cliffhangers aren't, lois missing, chole losing everyone, jimmy's brother (does he come into the story yet? highly doubt it but you never know) and that whole purple orb dude (ZOD), clark "dying" in a symbolic sense, OH! and Clark not knowing how he got out of the tunnel(maybe he flew?!?!?! ), clark disappearing?(does that mean anything?) and what about JL??? ...doesn't anyone want to find out what that all means? That's the whole point of a cliffhanger so that we don't know everything, that pieces of the story are missing.
So questions that will most likely be answered are....How is Clark going to start behaving? is he finally going to the fortress to completely finish his training? is he going to be a colder person(or alien)? is he going to start killing evil people? What about lois? Where did the JL go?

What happens is that people are not complainin about the cliffhanger, it's about the way they delivered the cliffhanger. And I do believe the cliffhanger it's about putting questions that eventually will be answered, but not about insulting the inteligence of the fans (Jimmy retcon).


SIXTH POINT: OTHER SUPERHEROES
Sometimes actions speak louder words? They were there to help him get rid of doomsday they weren't the main part of the story. Clark, JImmy, Chloe and Doomsday were the main story lines, all the others are subplots hence why they are special guests or supporting casts, to help SUPPORT the story. They were there to help him in the background, they were at jimmy's funeral, and (this just me) it's always nice to see a superhero (other then clark) on smallville


It's always nice to see superheroes other than clark in smallville, but when they do something else than be "there" and not help the story almost in anything. The only thing they did was stand there, help betray Clark and the rest was off-screen, wich all of this could have been done without them. Just put Oliver calling Clark for something and then betraying him with the K-Ring, same result, less money that could have gone to the fight.


SEVENTH POINT: ZOD SUCKS
LOL i find this so fun that every one hates Zod...but seriously think about this...
Zod did create Doomsday. I mean think of it the only reason why Clark is on earth is because of Zod. Almost every season is more or less him preparing to protect the world from or trying to defeat the many different things Zod has created (and actually it also about going up against Lex which is basically a human version of Zod). So Zod is, in my opinion, one of the BIGGEST rivals that Clark/Superman has. so wouldn’t Zod in a way be Clark’s ultimate rival?

Zod? The point is...and I believe most of the fans are asking this, how can they do 22 episodes worth of Zod? Because if you check other season, in one single episode Zod was practically ready to conquer Earth, unless they take away his powers (lame) or give him a romantic interest (lame x2) there is not a way to give Zod 22 episodes.


EIGHTH POINT: CLARK FLYING
This slightly bother some...
I sort of understand everyone’s need for Clark to fly…this whole series is about Clark BECOMING superman…not Clark as superman I think the whole super jump thing is getting bigger and longer, which is probably how he starts flying....with all the kryptonians we’ve seen on smallville, they’re all older, and haven’t been raised on earth and therefore it’s easier for them to fly.
But even then....i don't think it was just me who thought it...but Clark JUMPING from the center of the city all the way to the out skirts in a building? I don't think that was a jump....i think he did fly...or semi flew.

I want Clark to fly, but I seriusly don't care too much, so I'll leave this point untouched.


NINTH POINT: ROKK'S ADVICE
He was only in the beginning because he didn't want to mess with time too much, it was only to give clark a warning that he is going to die. That is the only reason how Clark knew that he had to go after doomsday and that nothing else could on earth could stop him. So Clark does in a way listens to ROKK.

You know, sometimes in the comics the Legion only leaves a note and that was it. So...anyway I don't have much problem with Rokk's only scene. I do believe that the scene when he is flying was innecesary, I mean really, how he could told Clark to meet him and then fly all over Metropolis? What, he was bored so he decided to flew a little?


TENTH POINT: WHY IT'S CALLED DOOMSDAY
It's not only called doomsday because its has the character in it but because of the emotional doom in it. The show is not just about his physical strength anymore...we know he has that. It's about how he's changing emotionally (hence the slightly emo ending) It's a more mature show and has more intense emotional cliffhangers rather then just cutting it in a middle of a fight, they cut it right when clark feels the weakest about humanity. Clark has been through so much emotional drama you can see his just as sick of it as everyone else watching is :P


I'm sorry, but when you have the characther of Doomsday in a Superman-like show, and you name a episode Doomsday, and even tell the fans they is going to be a "big fight" you except something like "Death of Superman". The rest is secondary, the fight should have been the main focus, not only a passing thought.
ELEVENTH POINT: DAVIS THE PSYCHO
I think that that was played out well. Because in the end that's what really turned Clark off of his human side and that he actually made a mistake about what davis is. Davis was basically evil through and through..rotten to the core.
It was a plot device. I believe Davis was sightly changing, but the extreme we saw in Doomsday was way out of characther, even the actor said so. If you want Clark dissapointed in humanity you should send him to visit prison or somethign, to see the worst of the worst and then I could accept him beign down, but this? Plot device, poor and simple.

So yeah, that's my opinion anyway.

[kal-el_Girl]

I have to watch the episode again but I don't think I will change my mind, if this was any other episode it would've been ok but it was a season finale, the writers didn't even try... bad too bad

[whitelight]

I think other people have mentioned this, but I have the same problem they do. The problem is, of course, that they brought in Doomsday to begin with. Here's the thing: they didn't need to use that villain. There are scads of others, and they could even have had the love story with Chloe.

I agree with you that it wasn't "time" to have the Superman/Doomsday fight, and if you track down a thread about whose name Clark will say during the fight, you'll find my issues with them bringing him in because I HAVE those problems. But they brought him in. And, let's not kid ourselves, the reason they did was because they knew the name was so well-known and exactly why. When they introduced Doomsday, they did it because they KNEW that people would say, "Oh! The man who killed Superman!" They not only knew it; they were banking on it.

But they never intended to give people that becuase it wasn't "time." Actually, and more realistically, it was probably due to the budget. But if you don't have the budget to do something like that - particularly when you're USING it because you know it'll draw people who want to see the story they've heard about - then you shouldn't do it. Just like if you only have a $1,000,000 budget, you probably shouldn't try to recreate Peter Jackson's LotR because you won't do it justice and you have to know that if you have any kind of awareness of how these things work.

They brought in Doomsday because they knew - they HAD to know - that the people who would recognize the name would remember why they knew the name to begin with, and after losing MR and KK, they had to be banking on that to not lose too many viewers so they could get another season. But then they disappointed with - what - three punches and a tackle or something? It wasn't even a good "this is the fight we have for now and we'll get to a better one when they're older." It was just made of epic fail.

Yet again, comics fans got played. And wow are we sick of being played by this show.

I don't see how anything was flawed in my quote...i never wrote ANYTHING about having doomsday in this season was a good or bad idea...i just wasn't agreeing that the fight should have been half of the episode unless it was a two parter and i didn't say just time i also said money too...so i don't see how that point was flawed...


I've said a good deal about this already, but to expound...

We have a very creative fandom. Look at the Chlois theory; there are a number of people who delve deep into the series to try to find "clues" and "subtext." And yet I have YET to find anyone who can say that they saw this one coming. So to add to the crappyness of what they did, we have the added LIE that it had been planned all along. I cry BS, because that's what it is. If it had been planned all along, you'd think there would be some sort of clue they'd have introduced BEFORE the finale, right? But if there were any, it seems NOBODY picked up on it. And with as much as people are willing to take the SMALLEST THING and RUN with it (look into "death anvil" conversations for this), I find that so completely implausible that there isn't actually a WORD for it.

okay i get the whole assuming thing made an ass out of me...honestly i'll take that out of my post...and i'm sorry if anyone took that offensively..:( like i said before i've been in this position with another tv show....so i know how mad people can get about destroying a main character and changing it.




Chloe was treated HORRIBLY this season. They got her to agree to the proposal and tried to sell us on the idea that she really loved Jimmy. Then, during Lana's arc, she came off as the worst wife ever, having coffee in town while her COUSIN is sitting by her HUSBAND'S side. Okay...

i'm pretty sure she went to visit jimmy they just don't show her at the hospital on camera... in legion she was baking cookies to take to jimmy and in bulletproof we see her packing to go back and visit jimmy before he wakes up...
the reason i think lois stayed the whole time is because a the whole 13 episodes (which i am upset that they only made it 12 :mad:) and b because lois didn't like the idea of clark getting back with lana (the ending in bride...she was so pained when she saw clark with lana ;)) that she didn't want to comeback until lana was either gone or she was ready to face them.
and i don't remember chole sipping coffee everytime we see her she's helping someone with clark or lana or oliver.




Then she takes DAVIS - a man she hadn't met that long before - side over Jimmy's. Now, yes, he was in the hospital and so it was plausible that he was on drugs. But remember Tomb? Chloe saw something and she was RIGHT and she KNEW how it felt not to be believed. And she didn't even give Jimmy a SECOND THOUGHT as to whether or not he was right. She jumped on the "he's wrong" bandwagon and HUGGED DAVIS RIGHT OUTSIDE HER HUSBAND'S DOOR. And let's not pretend that there was NO attraction between Chloe/Davis and that she did it ALL for Clark because they clearly INTENTIONALLY showed that she had two motives there.

She had no faith in Jimmy. She didn't even give him a chance. And what's worse than that? He was absolutely 100% RIGHT.

Oh, and then she tasers her recovering husband to protect Davis. Now let's think again; they want us to believe it was "all for Clark." Right. Pull the other one.

remember that whole brainiac in her system...she was never in love with him it was because of that connection that she felt attached to him...then she just became confused about what had happend

yes i remember tomb...but jimmy wouldn't even let her explain...she didn't want him to kill someone...picture you walking in on your boyfriend about to hit someone with a pole and the is chained up to a fence and screaming...i'm not giving chole an excuse (because what she did was extreme by tasering jimmy), but she though she was doing the right thing...she wanted to talk to jimmy afterwards but jimmy flipped out ( and he had a right to) but his reasons were one sided, the reason why she "trusted clark more" was because she knew that he could do things jimmy couldn't (super wise). It was davis who was confusing the hell out of her and in turbulance she does blame herself there...and THATS why the hug happend because davis was comforting her (Chole hugs clark all the time...chole is a hugger) Another point is that Davis made him look psychotic when he was banging on the door screaming for chole and she wasn't there and chole saw that....i mean Emotions are a very complex thing...i would say more but i would recommend watching turbulence again from chole's POV really look at her emotions in the background...

i mean we SEE EVERYTHING that's going on but all of the other characters only see what they see..

i know i'm jumping all over the place with this but...there's just so much to say to that....you can't be on sided and only look at it from one point of veiw...i get what jimmy got pissed and if i was in his situation probably would have acted the same way...but at the same time chole really thought he was going crazy because davis manipulated her and her complex feelings about davis that she believes it. i know im jumping again ...but right when jimmy tells chloe about davis at first it looks like she was believing him but then davis comes in...just watch turbulance again...



She kept Doomsday in her basement, she ran off with him, and she stopped Clark from putting him in the only prison that could hold him. And this man, incidentally, had killed 50+ others.

She made NUMEROUS mistakes this season, and that's absolutely fine. I could get behind that. But in the finale, Chloe didn't "bloom" or "blossom" or do anything other than be what people around here call "Lanafied." Growing, blooming, these things would mean she was shown to be wrong, she would recognize this, she would learn from it, she would grow from the experience. Look at what happened after the betrayal. Now, it wasn't handled as well as it could be back then, but at least then there was a RECOGNITION on the part of other characters and herself that what she did was WRONG and they showed her realizing that she had to make up for that.

Here, they have Jimmy paint her as a "hero" and we're asked to believe that she didn't do anything wrong here. And she did. But only the audience will see that, because according to the show, she was right.

THAT is not "blooming." That is not using Jimmy's death to cause her to "bloom." That's using Jimmy's death to ask the audience to believe that Chloe's actions were heroic, not fundamentally flawed. Even if they had someone say, "You had heroic intentions, but you were wrong in how you went about it" and she said "yes, and I've learned not to put my trust in the wrong person as readily as I did here" that would have been better. But nope! We're just asked to believe she was heroic - in the face of all evidence to show that she was making some pretty horrible choices - and that's that. There will be no consequences for her; there will be no growth. It will all be swept under the rug and everyone will pretend that it never happened. Or, if it is addressed, they'll be all like, "Well, we were wrong not to see that Chloe was making the bestest choices ever and we should totally be cool with everything she did so we are!"

That's not weak writing, it's BAD writing. It's BAD characterization. It's not growth; it's what happens to Mary Sues.

I was hoping, if Chloe were to stick around, that we'd have this realization and that there would be some character growth here. I actually loved her back when she would make mistakes and recognize it and try to make up for it. And I hated Lana back then, because she would make mistakes and everyone would say that they hadn't been mistakes and to the extent that anything wrong had been done, THEY had been to blame.

They have now done with Chloe what they used to do with Lana, and I now loathe Chloe as much as I did Lana back then.

It's not "blooming". It's turning a blind eye to the story that's been told for the course of the season.


maybe blooming was the wrong choice for words...how about character development... and i wasn't just talking about this season i was talking about since jimmy first came to smallville...actually even before in season four he was mentioned as a love interest by chloe to lana( episode 11 unsafe)then when we first meet jimmy in season six he is once again introduced as a love interest for chole...to me it seems as if that why he's there... and it's his love that makes chole (who still had feelings for clark which was still kinda messing around with the whole friendship deal ( you could totally see it in her eyes everytime clark mentions lana) )get over clark (as mentioned in instinct)
that's what i meant by "blooms" it was jimmy helped her character develop over all not just in this season but before.

i think what the should have done to not make everyone hate this season finale was not to name him jimmy but have his full name pointed out as henry james olsen right in the beginning of season six...and maybe give him his nickname or something...:confused:. but i guess they didn't think that far ahead... :) or maybe they thought people would get angry...but who knows right?




Also, I'd happy argue against your "Chloe blooms" as a character because of this argument, and I'll even try to be polite as I do it.

btw saying "i'll try to be polite" is sort of hypocritical it's like saying "i want to tell you to *** off but i'm not going to because i want to seem nice"

[whitelight]

Let's see...

Are Clark and Doomsday throwing down in the finale?
Brian Peterson: It's what everybody has probably been watching for the whole season. There will be a big throwdown between Doomsday and Clark.
Kelly Souders: Clark meets his match.

They told us they'll show us a epic fight, do they deliver? No.

Like i said before i'll say it again....I DON'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE HAVE TO SAY because honestly i don't want to be let down...or ruin surprises for me...so i'll glance sometimes a an interveiw but i would take everything WORD FOR WORD there writers and producers....they MAKE up stories for a living

i'm judging the episode on what i saw in it not what they promised... i'll take that statement out though....i'm sorry about getting on your nerves... :eek:





Actually in both Superman/Doomsday and in "The Death of Superman" comic, Doomsday is buried by alien tech, so...it only ties up the mythos in the surface...



really??? then that gives me an idea! lol...i honestly didn't know that tid bit of info...by brothers are comic fans i get info from them if i hadn't read the comic....i'm not really super duper hard core :o..just core lol
what kind of alien device?! :D




You know, first of all nobody "knew" that this wasn't the real Jimmy. He wasn't exactly like his comic counterpart, yes, but again, who in this show is?
And I'll show you another quote, showing that even the writters believed this was the real Jimbo:

"As an actor, Aaron Ashmore has been such a great surprise because that is a role everybody knows. He made it his own and hit it out of the park." -Smallville writer Darren Swimmer
So, I believe that shows that nobody expected this Jimmy to be fake.
Not even the writters.
Last minute retcon that they pulled out of their as*es.


As i said before i apologized for that and took it down....but i had a slight hunch (or a gut feeling) that it was possible it wasn't the reall jimmy... other people who i've spoken to also have said it as well. so maybe NOT EVERYONE but my friends and people at my school have discussed the idea



It's not even weird, it's sick. It's sad to think that a little boy will try to live the life of his deceased big brother...so, GOOD JOB PS!


okay here's two examples....ONE: a father goes off to war and dies in batter...his son wants grow up to be like him and join the army because his father died in honor

TWO: my friend has an aunt who was a police officer who died...and now her little sister wants to be a cop because she knew that she died saving people

could be the same mentality that the little jimmy has.






This one doesn't bothers me...although, and I know this because I used to live with a person who was addicted, when you have an addiction you don't stop at anything to get your stuff, anything.
So why keep something you'll never use and only bring you memories about your ex? Someone who didn't trust you and was one of the reason you started with the pills in the first place?
It doesn't bothers me too much, but they could use a better excuse.

because he still loved her.... and it totally shows he was just extremely hurt and angry with her about the whole trust thing but once he found out the truth everything made sense...and he forgave her.




It doesn't bother that much, but I do disagree that this season was "darker side of Clark", this season was suposed to be about "Clark Kent becoming Superman"...the rest happened once they knew they would get a season 9...so yeah, the speech doesn't bother me, but I do disagree with you in that point.

sorry i must of mis wrote it...darker side of clark is season nine ...and how his emotional side evolves into a superman we can see that's what i believe the next season is about. but in this season as he's taking the next step into turning into superman, he does start to think about how is emotions effect his judgement...




What happens is that people are not complainin about the cliffhanger, it's about the way they delivered the cliffhanger. And I do believe the cliffhanger it's about putting questions that eventually will be answered, but not about insulting the inteligence of the fans (Jimmy retcon).

yea i can see where you're coming from with that....




It's always nice to see superheroes other than clark in smallville, but when they do something else than be "there" and not help the story almost in anything. The only thing they did was stand there, help betray Clark and the rest was off-screen, wich all of this could have been done without them. Just put Oliver calling Clark for something and then betraying him with the K-Ring, same result, less money that could have gone to the fight.

this goes back to the whole two parter thing...the could of had everything...just scrap injustice and had a two part doomsday or just had 23 episodes like in season 2



Zod? The point is...and I believe most of the fans are asking this, how can they do 22 episodes worth of Zod? Because if you check other season, in one single episode Zod was practically ready to conquer Earth, unless they take away his powers (lame) or give him a romantic interest (lame x2) there is not a way to give Zod 22 episodes.

they probably have an explanation for that...how would you have it so it wouldn't be lame? is there a thread for that? i would really like to see it :)




You know, sometimes in the comics the Legion only leaves a note and that was it. So...anyway I don't have much problem with Rokk's only scene. I do believe that the scene when he is flying was innecesary, I mean really, how he could told Clark to meet him and then fly all over Metropolis? What, he was bored so he decided to flew a little?

LOL once you put it like that....that actually probably would have made that part alot shorter...but i guess dailouge was important to them :confused:



I'm sorry, but when you have the characther of Doomsday in a Superman-like show, and you name a episode Doomsday, and even tell the fans they is going to be a "big fight" you except something like "Death of Superman". The rest is secondary, the fight should have been the main focus, not only a passing thought.

i wouldn't go as far as saying the death of superman and once again yes i think the fight should have been longer but there was a lot of doom in this episode (everyone disappearing, leaving, or dying and other things that i don't want to repeat) and for the fans (jimmy)




It was a plot device. I believe Davis was sightly changing, but the extreme we saw in Doomsday was way out of characther, even the actor said so. If you want Clark dissapointed in humanity you should send him to visit prison or somethign, to see the worst of the worst and then I could accept him beign down, but this? Plot device, poor and simple.

but the whole point of that was to show that DAVIS was kryptonian like Clark not just any other human clark said " i was always raised to beleive that my kryptionain side was evil but i was wrong. it's my human side...it's the side that gets attached. it's the side that make decisions based on emotions, that's my enemy. AND DAVIS PROVED THAT TO ME." davis was the one who killed jimmy based on jealousy and it was DAVIS human side.

Doomsday was a breed a killer that's what he knows it's logic to him...but davis knew killing was wrong but his emotions got the better of him...and that's what clark saw

and like i said before

he doesn't blame HUMANITY (he still wants to protect and save it) he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way (of doing it right)

[LJ-90]

Like i said before i'll say it again....I DON'T REALLY PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT THE HAVE TO SAY because honestly i don't want to be let down...or ruin surprises for me...so i'll glance sometimes a an interveiw but i would take everything WORD FOR WORD there writers and producers....they MAKE up stories for a living

i'm judging the episode on what i saw in it not what they promised... i'll take that statement out though....i'm sorry about getting on your nerves... :eek:

No problem, actually I kinda like this tipe of things, talk about the different POV that people have it's what makes a forum great, so let's see your points (v. 2.0) shall we?


really??? then that gives me an idea! lol...i honestly didn't know that tid bit of info...by brothers are comic fans i get info from them if i hadn't read the comic....i'm not really super duper hard core :o..just core lol
what kind of alien device?! :D

Mmm...if I remember correctly in Superman/Doomsday he was imprisioned by an alien race that send him to space and somehow landed on earth (I know...why all this happens to us right?)

And in "Death of Superman" he was trapped in somewhat of tin can and in a suit, he escapes in the suit and gradually start to rip it off...that's why the first time that DD appears you can only see a hand punching a wall.


As i said before i apologized for that and took it down....but i had a slight hunch (or a gut feeling) that it was possible it wasn't the reall jimmy... other people who i've spoken to also have said it as well. so maybe NOT EVERYONE but my friends and people at my school have discussed the idea

Well, let's took this slowly.

I believe that at first, Aaron Ashmore was supposed to be the Iconic Jimmy Olsen, they told him that, they told the press that and they told the fans that. Then, down the road they decided that they should kill him off, but they used the "mythos" excuse to try not to piss people off (it didn't work)

So, my point of view it's, they bring in Iconin Jimmy, but the twist in "Doomsday" was a cop-out, retcon that they didn't plan since the begining like they are telling now.

Because, really, they did a featurette in the season 7 DVD where they put together all of the actors that played Jimmy Olsen, and then they try to tell us that AA wasn't IJO to begin with? Either they are cruel (and stupid) or they are really really bad writers.


okay here's two examples....ONE: a father goes off to war and dies in batter...his son wants grow up to be like him and join the army because his father died in honor

TWO: my friend has an aunt who was a police officer who died...and now her little sister wants to be a cop because she knew that she died saving people

could be the same mentality that the little jimmy has.

Could be...but here I have other example:

Lois: No! I won't call you Jimmy!
New Jimmy: WHY?! I have the camera, the bow tie, the age, the personality! Call me Jimmy!
Clark: No! It's disrespectful of your brother's memory!
New Jimmy: But I am Jimmy Olsen! I AM! (Big guys in white clothes enter the room and start taking him to the looney bin) WHY?! WHYYYY???!!! I'M JIMMY OLSEN!!!


because he still loved her.... and it totally shows he was just extremely hurt and angry with her about the whole trust thing but once he found out the truth everything made sense...and he forgave her.

But he was a pill addict. He try to robb Chloe. He was so low that he asked Oliver drug money...and he had a house that could easily sold? Or perhaps he could have sold his department and live in the "Watchtower"?

Other option could be that the place isn't worth that much...and that still could create problems.


sorry i must of mis wrote it...darker side of clark is season nine ...and how his emotional side evolves into a superman we can see that's what i believe the next season is about. but in this season as he's taking the next step into turning into superman, he does start to think about how is emotions effect his judgement...

Oh, nothing more to add here then.


yea i can see where you're coming from with that....

Thank you.


this goes back to the whole two parter thing...the could of had everything...just scrap injustice and had a two part doomsday or just had 23 episodes like in season 2

I second that idea.


they probably have an explanation for that...how would you have it so it wouldn't be lame? is there a thread for that? i would really like to see it :)

Mmm...the Brainiac arc was enough with Zod really, but if they HAVE to use him...they could do something like "New Krypton", release a bunch of kryptonians and make Zod the leader, he wants a New Krypton in Mars (for example) but Clark is worried that Zod is really planning to conquer Earth. There is about 12 episodes worth of Clark and Zod confrontation without really having to fight. Hell, put Clark in the Fortress to train just because he is so worried about Zod and the others kryptonians, that should take care of the "the training!!!" part and it would serve to put Clark to different trials (assuming that his training is really trials he has to overcome instead of just read stuff)


LOL once you put it like that....that actually probably would have made that part alot shorter...but i guess dailouge was important to them :confused:

Well, the dialogue part isn't a big problem, to me it's that the flight scene could have been saved and the budget use in the fight...just that.
Although it would have been funny to see Clark picking a piece of paper
"Tomorrow it's the day you die. It's all Chloe's fault. Send DD to the future with the ring (see inside), DO.NOT.SCREW.IT.UP.KAL...xoxo The Legion"


i wouldn't go as far as saying the death of superman and once again yes i think the fight should have been longer but there was a lot of doom in this episode (everyone disappearing, leaving, or dying and other things that i don't want to repeat) and for the fans (jimmy)

Ok, so not "The Death of Superman" but something bigger than Clark vs Titan. There was a lot of Doom, but I expected more. I mean, the JL was there for nothing practically. Your right, for the fans (JIMMY!!! WHY???) there was a lot of Doom, some of them decided to leave the show so...GREAT JOB PS!


but the whole point of that was to show that DAVIS was kryptonian like Clark not just any other human clark said " i was always raised to beleive that my kryptionain side was evil but i was wrong. it's my human side...it's the side that gets attached. it's the side that make decisions based on emotions, that's my enemy. AND DAVIS PROVED THAT TO ME." davis was the one who killed jimmy based on jealousy and it was DAVIS human side.

Doomsday was a breed a killer that's what he knows it's logic to him...but davis knew killing was wrong but his emotions got the better of him...and that's what clark saw

and like i said before

he doesn't blame HUMANITY (he still wants to protect and save it) he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way (of doing it right) <!-- / message -->

Mmm...probably, still...they could have wrote this better.
Although I think this is innecesary drama, after all Superman believes his emotion are important, without them he would become a ruthless monster that only care to do things right, without setting an example to others to follow.

My opinion anyways, this is fun and don't worry, you are not getting on my nerves, I like to discuss all diferents points of views with other fans, that's what's so cool about forums:)

[halvor311]

I was very disappointed at first. The main thing that pissed me off was the promise of an epic battle and getting something that I'd already seen on cwtv.com. The problem with this episode was that it was simply over-hyped. I also am iffy on the Jimmy stuff. But I agree with the original poster that people are hating it a little more than it deserves. Try watching it again without your expectations, I think people will like it more. But yeah, I agree with the person who posted this thread. It is underrated, but I understand why ppl are so angry about it. If you're going to tease an "epic" battle, then give an "epic" battle. Clark vs. Bizarro was epic. The season 4 premiere was epic. Justice was epic as was Legion. This was no epic battle. Hopefully there will be one next season. And apparently doomsday may be coming back next season. But I doubt it. Also, I think a cool ending to the series, maybe season 10 would be the epic battle that was supposed to come this season, then Superman comes back to life. I think if there is a season 10 it would be Clark as Superman gaining the respect that Superman does gain.

[Kevin24]

Yes, my biggest problem with the episode was that the battle didn't leave up to the season long build up. I wanted a lot more action but I guess the budget wasn't big enough for that.

I still enjoyed the battle for what it was but I wish it were longer. Another thing that let me down was that we never saw what happened after the explosion. Other than that I enjoyed everything else.

It may be because I'm not a comic book reader that the Jimmy death and reveal didn't bother me at all. It only bothered me by making me sad because I liked his character. :(

[Liquid-Prince]

SDF approved thread.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c385/warrior-within2/Untitled-1-8.jpg

[Khyla]

SDF approved thread.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c385/warrior-within2/Untitled-1-8.jpg

put me down as a member. :)

[REebee52]

SDF approved thread.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c385/warrior-within2/Untitled-1-8.jpg

I will defend the show in general, and even some of the more unpopular elements (Lana). But I will not claim every episode is good, and I cannot say this finale is worth defending.

[Odysseus]

I've been a smallville fan since the beginning and i usually agree to what people have to say about which episodes did the major suckage (requiem, power) and which rocked the house (committed, bride)

But after seeing what people were saying about this season finale i decided to join the forum because i think that people really only focused on what was physically going on in that episode and not connecting them to anything that was happening before. I'm not say that this finale was perfect there were some flaws but it wasn't a total disaster!

So here are some points i have, some i already made on the forum (but i don't think any one read it which kinda makes me sad :( ) and some weren't


FIRST POINT: THE FIGHT

Now this was i think was the major turn-off for most people and I AGREE it should have been longer but i would only add 2-3 more min to it nothing more and here's why: I don't think it was ever about the fighting because honestly Clark is obviously not ready to face Doomsday he's not Superman yet therefore it's not suppose to be epic. Another reason is that I don't think they wanted to damage either of the characters because Doomsday needs to be 'intact' for the actual fight when he comes back to fight with Superman, so neither of them could have died (which some people are saying should have happened, which doesn't make sense at all) Also, given the amount of time they had and the amount of money, they couldn't make a huge fight scene like the one in the movies because lets face it, it's a tv show. Also, the episode isn't just called doomsday because he was in it....(see point ten)

IT also ties up the mythos ( or one part of it ) of how lex finds doomsday deep beneath the earths surface. So no Doomsday isn't dead, he's just buried underground and now we know why and how. :D




SECOND POINT: JIMMY or HENERY JAMES OLSEN
I think that Jimmy dying was important. He was to old... and the whole Henry James thing….my brother actually uses his middle name as a first name and no one really knows his first name, other then his family. So i know that they were pushing it but it is possible that he used his middle name as his first.

What i was hoping for was it to be a cousin or chole’s baby, but since they already used her as lois’ cousin i could see how that wouldn’t work. But still a brother with the same name in his name (if that makes sense) is sort of weird, would have been better if it was a younger cousin of “Henry James”.

Oh and everyone who is complaining that "Chole doesn't know Jimmy's family is dumb", must go back and watch committed when “jimmy” and chole discuss his father, and we find out that chole never really met his parents because he was ashamed and he wanted to fit in at the daily planet. Therefore it does make sense that chole doesn’t really know and/or never met his family before and why they don't even come to the wedding.

AND they never called him james Bartholomew olsen on the show...just James Olsen in season 6 episode 1 NO middle name was mentioned. Remember the whole image thing? He probably used his middle name to start up new and fresh at the planet and make a name for himself.

Also as soon and "jimmy" found out about Clark you had to know HE DEFINITELY was going to die because the real Jimmy Olsen doesn't know that Clark is Superman.

I think that what they did to his character and how he died was beautifully sad and he went full circle and after a while people will except it. He helped Chloe bloom as a character and get over clark as a love interest.




THIRD POINT: THE WATCH TOWER
This one was slightly obvious.....

He bought the watch tower BEFORE the wedding and the tower as jimmy said "is a run down place that world had forgotten about" so it probably isn't as expensive since it was a run down building. chole didn't know about it because it was a surprise present from jimmy so the whole paying the bills wouldn't make sense. and the drug deals....jimmy told clark that he could bring himself to get rid of it....so that blows that. and the whole can't pay for his car...you know that was all BS he just needed money for drugs and (i'll say it again)since he couldn't bring himself to sell the apartment or loft, he went to Oliver with some lame excuse.




FOURTH POINT: CLARK'S ENDING SPEECH
This was the most vital. After so much pain in his life clark finally goes overboard...emotionally. Which this season was building up to, the "darker side of Clark" Him saying clark kent is dead is basically saying that his human side his dead (just like the beginning of season 4 but only this time with a choice)If you still don't see it.... Okay put yourself in his position....you go tell jimmy to protect chole and davis and to trust me...jimmy does and then davis kills him....i would totally blame myself! i put him in that position and especially when you have all the powers that clark has that could have prevent something like that from happening.

AND Let me make this also clear he doesn't blame HUMANITY he blames HIS humanity and emotions for getting in the way.




FIFTH POINT: BAD CLIFFHANGERS
The funny thing about this is that people who are asking a ton of questions about what is happening are the ones saying that it was a bad cliff hanger or there isn't one.... ROTFL

so cliffhangers aren't, lois missing, chole losing everyone, jimmy's brother (does he come into the story yet? highly doubt it but you never know) and that whole purple orb dude (ZOD), clark "dying" in a symbolic sense, OH! and Clark not knowing how he got out of the tunnel(maybe he flew?!?!?! :D), clark disappearing?(does that mean anything?) and what about JL??? ...doesn't anyone want to find out what that all means? That's the whole point of a cliffhanger so that we don't know everything, that pieces of the story are missing.

So questions that will most likely be answered are....How is Clark going to start behaving? is he finally going to the fortress to completely finish his training? is he going to be a colder person(or alien)? is he going to start killing evil people? What about lois? Where did the JL go?



SIXTH POINT: OTHER SUPERHEROES
Sometimes actions speak louder words? They were there to help him get rid of doomsday they weren't the main part of the story. Clark, JImmy, Chloe and Doomsday were the main story lines, all the others are subplots hence why they are special guests or supporting casts, to help SUPPORT the story. They were there to help him in the background, they were at jimmy's funeral, and (this just me) it's always nice to see a superhero (other then clark) on smallville :D




SEVENTH POINT: ZOD SUCKS
LOL i find this so fun that every one hates Zod...but seriously think about this...

Zod did create Doomsday. I mean think of it the only reason why Clark is on earth is because of Zod. Almost every season is more or less him preparing to protect the world from or trying to defeat the many different things Zod has created (and actually it also about going up against Lex which is basically a human version of Zod). So Zod is, in my opinion, one of the BIGGEST rivals that Clark/Superman has. so wouldn’t Zod in a way be Clark’s ultimate rival?





EIGHTH POINT: CLARK FLYING
This slightly bother some...

I sort of understand everyone’s need for Clark to fly…this whole series is about Clark BECOMING superman…not Clark as superman I think the whole super jump thing is getting bigger and longer, which is probably how he starts flying....with all the kryptonians we’ve seen on smallville, they’re all older, and haven’t been raised on earth and therefore it’s easier for them to fly.

But even then....i don't think it was just me who thought it...but Clark JUMPING from the center of the city all the way to the out skirts in a building? I don't think that was a jump....i think he did fly...or semi flew.



NINTH POINT: ROKK'S ADVICE
He was only in the beginning because he didn't want to mess with time too much, it was only to give clark a warning that he is going to die. That is the only reason how Clark knew that he had to go after doomsday and that nothing else could on earth could stop him. So Clark does in a way listens to ROKK.




TENTH POINT: WHY IT'S CALLED DOOMSDAY
It's not only called doomsday because its has the character in it but because of the emotional doom in it. The show is not just about his physical strength anymore...we know he has that. It's about how he's changing emotionally (hence the slightly emo ending) It's a more mature show and has more intense emotional cliffhangers rather then just cutting it in a middle of a fight, they cut it right when clark feels the weakest about humanity. Clark has been through so much emotional drama you can see his just as sick of it as everyone else watching is :P




ELEVENTH POINT: DAVIS THE PSYCHO
I think that that was played out well. Because in the end that's what really turned Clark off of his human side and that he actually made a mistake about what davis is. Davis was basically evil through and through..rotten to the core.




WHAT THEY COULD HAVE DONE TO MAKE IT BETTER
What it boils down to is it being tooo choppy and not enough time to explain everything clearer. It should have been a two part episode, probably would have made alot more people happy, more lois before she disappears, more jl, more of everything :D



in conclusion, EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH SESASON 8 OVER AGAIN (except for the lana parts because there not really important...:P)because you are missing little deatils i probably need to too :D

and don't forget... THIS WHOLE SERIES IS ABOUT CLARK BECOMING SUPERMAN AND THE STORY BEFORE THE COMICS…..IT’S JUST A SET UP TO THE REAL DEAL :)

and if anyone doesn't understand something i've said or has something else that they hate about this season just let me know :)

I totally agree.

For the people complaining about how short the Doomsday/Clark battle was, I will say that I honestly do NOT think we have seen the last of Doomsday.

If that really was General Zod coming out of the Orb at the end, then I think that at some point next season, Zod will find where Doomsday is buried and release him.

Maybe they will end up doing the whole "Death and Return" story arc as a mid-season event. So yeah, I think we will see another Clark vs. Doomsday fight next season

[Jade4813]

Okay, just getting back to this because I just started a new job that takes up much more of my time than I'd anticipated.


I don't see how anything was flawed in my quote...i never wrote ANYTHING about having doomsday in this season was a good or bad idea...i just wasn't agreeing that the fight should have been half of the episode unless it was a two parter and i didn't say just time i also said money too...so i don't see how that point was flawed...

I don't think that it should have been half the time, but I do think that just a couple more minutes wouldn't have been satisfying either - though I think they could have made it SLIGHTLY more satisfying if Clark had been allowed to throw ONE punch, at least! (Incidentally, they might have been able to afford those couple of more minutes if they hadn't decided to bring in two guest stars that they didn't really USE for reasons that escape me entirely. Also, all that money spent on special effects in Lana's arc, which I'd totally blocked from my memory until someone mentioned it to me yesterday and now that pisses me off too. :lol:)

Part of the problem was that they really should have concentrated more on Clark in the development of Doomsday's arc this year. Instead, they had Chloe in the center of that arc, and Clark and Davis/Doomsday didn't really interact much for the entire first half and even a hefty chunk of the second, if memory served.

For me, part of the epic battle is the lead-in into it, and even a couple more minutes of the two of them duking it out wasn't going to do it. Beyond which, the entire purpose of the Doomsday/Superman battle is Supes standing up against someone with the fate of the world in the balance, and the threat to the world was emphasized.

Yes, Doomsday in Smallville posed a threat to the world - and to Clark - but the focus of the season really seemed to be more on saving CHLOE from her stupid choices, at least from my perspective. And what was the point of Rokk coming back to say Clark would die when he then...er...didn't. And nothing really changed to indicate to me "Aha! That's why he didn't this time!" Perhaps I missed something, or I've forgotten it by now. Heaven knows I'm trying.

Anyway, in my view, a couple more minutes of a throwdown wouldn't have made the entire Doomsday arc with Clark made of epic fail. Particularly since Doomsday wasn't made into half the threat he should have been. I'm still struggling to figure out why he didn't kill people the moment he was released. Maybe he wouldn't have been that much of a threat to the world, after all! He'd just knock people out or growl at them or something! :lol:

Am I the only one who finds irony in the fact that I think there was a higher body count in "Bride" than there was in "Doomsday?"


i'm pretty sure she went to visit jimmy they just don't show her at the hospital on camera... in legion she was baking cookies to take to jimmy and in bulletproof we see her packing to go back and visit jimmy before he wakes up...
the reason i think lois stayed the whole time is because a the whole 13 episodes (which i am upset that they only made it 12 :mad:) and b because lois didn't like the idea of clark getting back with lana (the ending in bride...she was so pained when she saw clark with lana ;)) that she didn't want to comeback until lana was either gone or she was ready to face them.
and i don't remember chole sipping coffee everytime we see her she's helping someone with clark or lana or oliver.

It's sloppy writing, and it DOES make the character look bad. They had her act a certain way, and they didn't have a really valid excuse for her to do so. It wasn't in the script. So, look at it this way: I assume (I have to assume a LOT on Smallville - far too much, mind) that Chloe DID visit Jimmy. But from the season, we know that Lois went to Star City and stayed there. We also know that Chloe didn't stay there the whole time, and I'm a little vague on why she "had" to be in Smallville in a couple of those Lana-arc questions. Why couldn't she look up things for Clark on her laptop while in Star City?

So Lois is staying by Jimmy (not necessarily WITH him in the hospital all the time, as I don't assume she did that, but nearby) 24/7 from Legion to...well, she got back in "Infamous" which is a little odd, but I can't quite get another interpretation out of her getting back from the airport right there.

Chloe wasn't herself in Legion, so she gets a totally free pass right there. And I THINK they said she was on her way to Star City in the next episode, but she was in the following two for brief bits in ways that show she didn't stay there. But there wasn't, to my recollection, a really great reason to have her there.

Either Jimmy shouldn't have been the one injured or the writers should have made sure to give very, very good reasons why Chloe HAD to leave Jimmy's side and make the long trek (or flight) back to Smallville. Particularly since we're now asked to believe that her heart was really with Jimmy and only Jimmy the whole time and she loved him so gosh darn much!

I ASSUME that Chloe saw Jimmy in the hospital, just like I ASSUME that Chloe really does visit Lois occasionally in the hospital, like when she's been shot (though we've never seen her do so) and I assume she's actually really just very worried about Lois right now (though it's up to random person x to put up fliers for Lois now and Chloe seems to be more concerned about her *cough* "loss" and why Clark isn't dropping everything to be there for her than she seems to be about her cousin going missing and Clark having a bit of a hard time himself).

But assumptions only get us so far, and the problem with the writing in general is that it doesn't get us nearly far enough.


remember that whole brainiac in her system...she was never in love with him it was because of that connection that she felt attached to him...then she just became confused about what had happend

I remember Brainiac, but I don't buy this all the way. For one thing, they've said they wanted to leave her feelings ambiguous, and I believe that with the way they played out the season. Also, there's the dream she had where she was macking on Davis. And she TASERED HER OWN HUSBAND who was RECOVERING FROM A SERIOUS INJURY to save Davis without even yelling out so much as a "STOP JIMMY!" first. Or a "YO!" to get Jimmy's attention. Or even a scream, a cough, or a hiccup.

So pardon me if I have a hard time believing her heart was truly with Jimmy the whole time and that she never loved Davis and was just "confused."


yes i remember tomb...but jimmy wouldn't even let her explain...she didn't want him to kill someone...picture you walking in on your boyfriend about to hit someone with a pole and the is chained up to a fence and screaming...i'm not giving chole an excuse (because what she did was extreme by tasering jimmy), but she though she was doing the right thing...she wanted to talk to jimmy afterwards but jimmy flipped out ( and he had a right to) but his reasons were one sided, the reason why she "trusted clark more" was because she knew that he could do things jimmy couldn't (super wise). It was davis who was confusing the hell out of her and in turbulance she does blame herself there...and THATS why the hug happend because davis was comforting her (Chole hugs clark all the time...chole is a hugger) Another point is that Davis made him look psychotic when he was banging on the door screaming for chole and she wasn't there and chole saw that....i mean Emotions are a very complex thing...i would say more but i would recommend watching turbulence again from chole's POV really look at her emotions in the background...

While I appreciate your suggestion of scene interpretation, I politely decline the suggestion to watch "Turbulence" again. I've already deleted all Smallville from my DVR and computers and have boxed up my Smallville DVDs already to make more room on my packed shelves for shows I intend to watch again.

I think, bottom line, that if the message they wanted to send was that Chloe really loved Jimmy the whole time and she LIKED Davis but was confused by her feelings for him, they would have handled it differently and could, certainly, have handled it better. I think that, as they said, they wanted to leave open the question of "does she love Davis, or is she doing this for Clark?" They left that open quite well, I think, given the debates on this board as to what the answer was. If Jimmy was really "her guy" I think the audience should have been left with the feeling that she did TRULY love him and TRULY wanted to be with him and TRULY had her heart and best interests in his corner and was really truly struggling with her feelings for Jimmy versus the obligations she felt in other corners.

That's the part of the arc that I think they dropped, and unfortunately, it was rather an important part of it. Because watching the finale, when I was asked to believe that Chloe really loved Jimmy all along, my first, gut reaction, was "Bull****."


i mean we SEE EVERYTHING that's going on but all of the other characters only see what they see..

I'm not sure the writers see either. ;)


i know i'm jumping all over the place with this but...there's just so much to say to that....you can't be on sided and only look at it from one point of veiw...i get what jimmy got pissed and if i was in his situation probably would have acted the same way...but at the same time chole really thought he was going crazy because davis manipulated her and her complex feelings about davis that she believes it. i know im jumping again ...but right when jimmy tells chloe about davis at first it looks like she was believing him but then davis comes in...just watch turbulance again...

My problem is, IIRC, there wasn't really a single moment that Chloe stepped back and went, "Okay, I'm confused about Davis but I love Jimmy and I do, in fact, trust him so while I MAY come to the conclusion that he's bonkers on drugs, maybe he deserves a nanosecond of credit while I consider the situation before I just assume that he is, in fact, bonkers on drugs."


maybe blooming was the wrong choice for words...how about character development... and i wasn't just talking about this season i was talking about since jimmy first came to smallville...actually even before in season four he was mentioned as a love interest by chloe to lana( episode 11 unsafe)then when we first meet jimmy in season six he is once again introduced as a love interest for chole...to me it seems as if that why he's there... and it's his love that makes chole (who still had feelings for clark which was still kinda messing around with the whole friendship deal ( you could totally see it in her eyes everytime clark mentions lana) )get over clark (as mentioned in instinct)
that's what i meant by "blooms" it was jimmy helped her character develop over all not just in this season but before.

I actually have to disagree with this, and it's not to be contrary or anything. I read your post about two nights ago, though, and have honestly been trying to consider the issue presented here, but I just can't quite agree with it.

The thing was that from Jimmy's introduction (post the one passing comment she made to Lana about losing her virginity to him). Now, in terms of her feelings for Clark, I do think Chloe's over him, but I really do have a bit of a problem giving Jimmy full credit for that. I think he HELPED, so to that extent, I agree with you (as I suspect this is what you mean though I'm not sure from your post, so if I'm misinterpreting, I apologize). Given how many times she slighted, shoved aside, forgot about, and hurt Jimmy for Clark, it's just hard for me to believe that it was her love for Jimmy that got her over her love for Clark. A factor, yes, but for me to believe that it was even the PRIMARY factor, I'd have to believe that's because her love for Jimmy was stronger, in the end, for her love for Clark.

Do you see what I mean there?

Now, she's Clark's secret keeper and the only real one he's had a couple of seasons there, so I have to take that into account and I have. But even so... I don't know, just thinking over the past three seasons, I can't help but look at even the PROGRESSION of that and think that even IF Clark had another secret keeper he could trust (and he has had in theory at least...four or five of them, since he has the JLA), Chloe wouldn't act any differently in prioritizing Jimmy over Clark when Clark could go turn to another person for help. Do you see what I mean? Or even in standing up for Jimmy in a way that shows that her love lies with him, not always putting Clark first. There was something this season that would be a good example of this, but for the life of me, I'm having a hell of a time thinking of what it was.

...

Well, I've spent the last ten minutes trying to remember what it was, but I couldn't. However, in the process of doing so, I came across a review of "Identity" done my someone else, and this passage does, I think, help to illustrate my point.


Also I had a big problem with Chloe not even considering Jimmy in all this. He's going to be her husband, but she'd blithely crush his career boosting shot. This is where we should've seen a clear conflict for Chloe. She's loyal to both of them, but Jimmy is the man she's marrying and it's his livelihood they're talking about. She still could've used the "smudge on the lens" comment about why he shouldn't be worried, but she should've refused to sabotage Jimmy's photo.

Jimmy and his career or feelings were not even an issue with her in this scene. Instead she went into her old "the world needs a hero" speech from a couple of years ago when Clark lost his powers. Though I guess it explains why Green Arrow was put out of commission because the speech wouldn't even make sense if he was still out there helping people.

For someone who's supposed to have come to love Jimmy more than Clark - to the extent that Jimmy helps her forget the love she had for Clark for years - Chloe does have a habit of neglecting Jimmy's feelings and concentrating solely on Clark's. So I do have a hard time seeing Jimmy as being even a PRIMARY reason for Chloe moving on.

Beyond that, in other ways, I don't think Chloe's really developed terribly much over the last few years, at least since she learned Clark's secret (which was the beginning of the end for her character, for me, because that's when she went from being fun and three-dimensional and flawed and her own character and began to be pigeon-holed and two-dimensional IMO).

She started off as the secret-keeper who was faithful to Clark more than anything and gave up her personal life, interests, and career to drop everything at the drop of a hat if he needed her. I had hoped, with Chimmy this year and the slight distancing with Clark, that we'd find that she DID love Jimmy more than anyone else in the world and we'd start to see her putting him first. Or at least herself first. Which isn't to mean that I think she should have screwed Clark or left him in the lurch, but to say, "Look, I've finally find someone and something that makes ME happy, and I lost track of that for a really long time. I almost found this person that I love - that made me realize that I just don't love you like that any longer - and I've almost lost him SEVERAL times because I've always put him on the back burner and he's always been second in my life. Now, Clark, I'm here for you and you know that, but I have to start putting Jimmy - and myself - first every so often. If you or the JLA really NEED something, I'm a phone call away, but it's time I start showing Jimmy that he's first with me."

In "Doomsday" Chloe was again the secret-keeper who was faithful to Clark more than anything and gave up the man she loved and at least showed she'd risked the job she really seemed to have chosen (Watchtower) in the name of "protecting Clark." Nevermind that she took on that role anyway and Clark didn't even get a vote. Hell, she never talked to him or anyone else about it. There's nothing really to show that she looked for a different way or struggled overly much with constantly trying to find another path.


i think what the should have done to not make everyone hate this season finale was not to name him jimmy but have his full name pointed out as henry james olsen right in the beginning of season six...and maybe give him his nickname or something...:confused:. but i guess they didn't think that far ahead... :) or maybe they thought people would get angry...but who knows right?

We're asked to believe this was planned from Day 1, though. Personally, I think they pulled it out of their...*cough*


btw saying "i'll try to be polite" is sort of hypocritical it's like saying "i want to tell you to *** off but i'm not going to because i want to seem nice"

Not at all. I'm trying to be polite about my feelings on the character because if I were to write out what I REALLY think of Chloe now, I'd at the very least be banned from this board. ;) I'm not being polite towards your feelings on the character, as I have no idea what they are.

ETA: I'd hoped to get to the rest of the points to explain where you and I don't see eye-to-eye on them, but just these three points have garnered quite a bit of discussion! :lol: I just don't get to spend as much time on KSite as I used to. However, I respectfully disagree with your comments on the finale, and if I don't get a chance to respond to the rest of your points, I hope you won't take it personally. If and when I get a little more time, I'll go back and try to address the others. If I don't for a while, though, I don't want you to think I've forgotten you or anything! :)

[redkryptoniteisthebest]

I can't believe I just know found this thread.

I personally loved this episode. The two things, though, that I didn't like were the DD/RBB fight and Jimmy's death.

[REebee52]

I can't believe I just know found this thread.

I personally loved this episode. The two things, though, that I didn't like were the DD/RBB fight and Jimmy's death.

The second was the biggest part of this episode, and the former was SUPPOSED to be the biggest part of this episode. Those are precisely why people are upset. Among its bad writing...

[Christine C]

Actually, the various Superman titles HAVE dealt with Jimmy's family at various points, and it's nothing like the family presented in DOOMSDAY.

The producers have claimed that they wanted to bring the show in line with the comic book mythology, and everything in DOOMSDAY was designed to do that. I've got almost every issue of Superman and Action going back to the early 1940s, as well as most issues of the other Superman titles. How is giving Lana a Kryptonite-laced power suit in line with comic book mythology? Or claiming that Jimmy had an older brother who also had the name James and was a Daily Planet photographer called Jimmy? How is having Green Arrow murder someone in line with comic book mythology? (The same goes with the dubious intentions of the Legion of Super Heroes.) I could go on forever, but I'm afraid I'd bore everyone to death.

In addition, I'm a writer/editor who has worked in the educational industry for over a decade, contributing both writing and editing to over a thousand textbooks in every discipline. I don't mean to sound like I'm bragging when I say that; I only bring it up to provide background for why I can say that DOOMSDAY is a terribly written episode. Characters behaved out of character. For instance, throughout the entire season, the Davis Bloome persona is intrinsically good; he basically even saves Jimmy, despite the fact that Jimmy loves Chloe, just as he (Davis) does; and having the opportunity to destroy Jimmy would clear Davis's path to Chloe. But when he has the opportunity to kill Jimmy early on, he doesn't do so. Yet in a moment of passion he later kills Jimmy for the very reasons he would likely have done so early on, had he been evil or out of control in human persona. It simply doesn't ring true.

Clark has experienced numerous examples of humans who are good and humans who are bad, but his limited experience with Kryptonians is that they're killers. For instance, Zor-El, Doomsday, Zod, and Brainiac, as well as the two Kryptonians who came out of the ship at the beginning of Season 5, are all killers; not to menion, Clark believes his own biological father is responsible for the weak heart that later lead to the death of the adopted father. Yet because the human persona of Davis Bloome kills Jimmy, Clark comes to believe that he must desert being human and embrace being Kryptonian? This, despite the fact that Davis's Kryptonian side, Doomsday, has killed innumerable people and is far worse than Davis?

The explanation posited here as to Chloe's question about what happened to the Justice League does not ring plausible (in fact, I found the explanation rather confusing, almost an example of wish fulfillment; "I must find an explanation to make this work because there really isn't one otherwise").

Jimmy Olsen was introduced to the series several years ago as Jimmy Olsen, a young photographer for the Daily Planet, hoping to work his way up to the big leagues (hm, just like in the comic book). He was frequently presented as a sidekick to Lois and sometimes Clark. Yet the producers felt he was out of sync with comic book mythology because of his age, so they killed him off and introduced another Jimmy, one that, just as problematically, is TOO young. Jimmy in the comic book is about a decade younger than Clark, who in turn is slightly younger than Lois. Why is having a Jimmy who is too old any worse than one who is too young? And even on SMALLVILLE, I had the impression that Jimmy was, while not considerably younger than Clark, at least a few years. It certainly didn't hurt that Aaron Ashmore encapsulated everything that was familiar about the character as we know him from the comic books and previous programs. I'd go so far as to even suggest that Ashmore's Jimmy was closer to the comic book than any previous presentation of Jimmy. He was not a bumbling fool, but rather was a three-dimensional human being.

One has to wonder, did the producers really have an issue with Jimmy's age, or did they have some uncited problem with Aaron Ashmore and decided to find some way to write him out of the show? I don't know if I believe that, but there's something going on here. Most probably, it's simply that they'd promised a death for the finale, but they got so much negative feedback about the possibility that it might be Chloe (understandably, because I too love Chloe), that they decided to 'shock' the audience by making it an 'untouchable' mythos character. To soften it, they then retconned the character and made the claim that it was never the "real" Jimmy, which is both insulting and condescending to the show's (and the comic books') fans.

I can forgive a lot, including the very weak fight between Clark and Doomsday (killed by budgetary limits, I have no doubt). But the bait and switch they pulled with Jimmy is unforgivable and very well may result in me not returning to the show next season. I have NEVER missed an episode of this show since season one, I own all of the DVD sets, and I have ALWAYS believed Brian and Kelly the best writers to have ever worked on the show. (They have always had a superb and deft ability to combine action, romance, comedy, and drama into a near-perfect whole.) But unfortunately, they showed a major lapse in judgment with this final episode, one which really needs to be corrected if the show is to succeed next season.

Love your post well said. The thing I really dislike is that if Davis was merely a genetic
experiment of Zod's he was played as a human being by Sam W. who did a fantastic job
I really felt bad for him, especially when they gave him the Glenn Close Fatal Attraction end, why? I don't believe he would have tried to kill Chloe. He was willing to let the Justice League dispose of DD, and warned her just before the beast came out for the final time and changed. I guess people forget this because all they remember is Jimmy/Henry getting is great send off as a hero, it seems all was revolved around that. He had to die saving Chloe. Davis had to die a monster. Clark has to deny his human side and leave, so Davis has to go out a villain in the end, sad. I knew he'd lose his fight and it would be sad and tragic, but I wanted him to die sacrificing himself to Doomsday to save Chloe. Now, that would have been a finale. I really hope he was being controlled by Zod at the end somehow, that Davis was not himself, after splitting from Dooms. This would resolve Clark's issue of Davis's human emotions making him a killer, even after DD left the building. Next year Davis comes back as Zod, but we get Davis good side inside Zod
fighting to stop him. I liked Jimmy by the way, just not as Chloe's boy friend, he was a great J.O. just like the character. I thought it was so cute when he was Amazed by Clark's super speed. I loved his, that's so cool, line.

[smilingalways2]

Hi Whitelight.

In my view, it's not too harsh at all. The reason why 1/2 the fanbase is so upset is because of the LIES!!! I think the backlash, for lack of a better term, is happening because of Peterson/Souders (P/S).

P/S promised Doomsday. I don't know if you have gotten a chance to see the cartoon movie Superman/Doomsday? When SV brought in DD that's what people were expecting.

I get that after they got an additional season, they couldn't go to that extreme, but Clark was never in a fight. He looked more like a punching bag and I don't think any of us liked that at all. I get what you are saying, about us all learning what happened next season, but what we did get to see was a big let down to many viewers. (As I'm sure you have read in the Loved it/hated it thread).

Also, the LIES they said about lining up with mythos. When you speak like that you are talking to everyone that watches SV: the casual viewer; the die-hard fan; the seen every movie, cartoon, show related to Superman; and the hard-core comic book fan. Mythos means Jimmy, Lois, Clark, Perry at the Daily Planet and yes Superman.

So it hurt when Jimmy was killed (mainly because this doesn't align with mythos... the lies) and then they "twist the dagger on our backs" when they explain that our Jimmy is not THE Jimmy Olsen. It's his brother. (Wo...I have yet to hear such a brother exists in mythos...so another lie).

Bottom line: Half of the viewers are upset because it's hard to swallow such blatant, flat out lies. The producers shouldn't talk about mythos anymore. There's a famous quote (I probably won't get it exactly right but here it goes..) "It's better to be thought a fool, than, to speak and remove all doubt". The producers should adhere to such council and just stay quiet to avoid upsetting half the fanbase.

To me, it threw off balance the moments they brilliantly got right. (All pretty related to Jimmy too).

I'm still going to watch to see what happens.... why? Two words: Tom Welling. It definitely isn't because of: the writing....LOLOL

[tippership commander]

i agree with the opening post 100% , and IF i hadnt bee nregstered, i wold have doen so just to make a point of all the ahrshness ,all the people who cant make up their minds, are leaving S/V for good just because thye dont want jimmy to follow the mythos in age, etc,etc,etc

[gem4evah]

lol actually i thought the same while reading many of these posts.
i love this show regardless of not being happy with the story.

i jus recently started watching it (the show came out whn i was in 6th grade, and i really didnt see what all the hype was about and ignored it all these years by survivng on Scrubs and Heroes)

[tippership commander]

i said before, and ill say it again..all those who saw the dd movie, and suddenly heard that SV would have him, and suddenly, headfirst, jumped on the " OH, epic fight that is the biggest fight ot EVER take place in Superman ! who cares if he's not superman?! he'd better die, it's in the movie! if he's not dead, they messed up! "! etcetc......


:rolleyes: the hype is what so many were mistaken on

[REebee52]

i said before, and ill say it again..all those who saw the dd movie, and suddenly heard that SV would have him, and suddenly, headfirst, jumped on the " OH, epic fight that is the biggest fight ot EVER take place in Superman ! who cares if he's not superman?! he'd better die, it's in the movie! if he's not dead, they messed up! "! etcetc......


:rolleyes: the hype is what so many were mistaken on

I didn't necessarily expect him to die, but it only makes sense to have a big fight. It was built up in the show itself and by the producers to seem like it would be awesome. You don't bring in a beast whose sole purpose is to kick ass if there's not going to be a big fight.

[Kuzz]

I totally agree with you whitelight... everyone keeps going on bout why is doomsday and all these other people in it yet clark can't even fly yet? Its all because its showing you how things started....

For all the people that are finding it hard to understand.... Look at the new X-men Origins: Wolverine film! That was to show how things started with him and at the end of it he loses his memory and thats why he had no memory in the first X-men!... its leading up to things.....

But still I think the season finale was pretty ****** and did not interest me at all I thought that season 7 finale was bad, but this was worse...!

The only things that interested me was how they showed the Jimmy wasn't actually Jimmy and its going to be his little brother as these are the early years.... (plus it was a bit of a give away when jimmy found clarks secret you didn't actually think jimmy new it in the superman films?)

Also where lois went? They are the only two things that interested me really couldn't care less about Zod, its been done and cudn't care less about clark going rouge and leaving friends behind etc cos its been done.... I think they may be running out of idea's and although i love smallville since day 1.... I really think they should re-think about making season 9 their last!

- Kuzz

[Hopefulsuicide]

I haven't seen any statement yet that was too harsh... it's all a matter of people's opinions. Some people were incredibly offended by the Jimmy retcon. Some people where incredibly offended by the miniscule fight (since it was teased) Some people were incredibly offended by the lack of Clois (since it was teased), some people were incredibly offended by Oliver's insistance to kill, while others still offended by Clark's resistence to kill. Some people were incredibly offended by Davis killing Jimmy, some were incredibly offended that Chloe came off a saint, some were incredibly offended that they decided Clark Kent should go darker and dissapear (right when they thought we had progress)...

Do I need to go on?

There has been no harshness. It is simply that everyone has one thing about the episode that touched a nerve (if not more). That is the incredible power of this episode... it can be severely hated, no matter what camp you are on. If you are a Cloiser, you hate the episode. If you are a Chlarker, you hated the episode. A chlaviser, even a Chimmyer... If you were on Ollie's side you might me annoyed because Clark's plan did work. If you were on Clark's side you might be annoyed because Ollie was right about Davis in the end.

There is literally no one who has nothing to be annoyed about... :(

[whitelight]

just to be clear....I understand everyone's points the ones that agree with me and the ones that don't... my title was a way of drawing people into my comment, so yes harsh might be a little too...well harsh :D but i just wanted to truly understand why people were so angry with this episode which is why i made this thread. (It wasn't made to force anyone to change their minds :) )

and from what i've read, underneath it all it has to do with broken promises, bad writing, and the death of a main character (jimmy olsen).

while the broken promises are out of my hands, i can sort of understand why they had bad writing - for this season anyway. they thought that this was going to be the last season so they most likely had an alternate ending and alternate episodes as well. when they decided to continued that probably messed up alot of the story lines. They also probably didn't have alot of time to change things too. so i can understand that sometimes when there's a deadline breathing down your neck you can begin to write poorly. I'm not giving them excuses just trying to make sense of things. :)

for the whole jimmy thing...i know people are saying that being old is a crappy reason for him to die and i did think of this for a while....and then it hit me....well people were writing about it in this and other sections (example below from this thread) that i was wrong about the whole prequel thing.....


Well actually it has been mentioned several times by the creators of the series that it is not a prequel, just a great story based loosely on Superman lore ;):
"...we’re telling not the back story or an origin, but a story,” Gough said. “It’s the idea that with great power comes great responsibility,... :
http://www.smeco.com/community/somdstories/gough.htm

It also has been referred to as an elseworld by the VP of Creative Affairs for DC Comics = http://www.smallvilleph.com/2009/03/gregory-noveck-talks-smallville/
Gregory Noveck, VP Creative Affairs DC Comics, talks Smallville

then i remembered that comics also have alternate story line...i think please correct me if i'm wrong(i've read a few of the comics but not everysingle one in each age so I'm not sure)....but aren't there different ages...like the golden age and the silver age....which are different storylines more or less with the same characters?
what i'm trying to get at is that the background story doesn't have to be the EXACT same. just as long as it has the same characters. and it ends up that he becomes superman. kinda like an alternate universe...like an earth-three :P...it has clark, lana, pete but they all are different because it's not the exact same story. kinda like a post-post modern age storyline. therefore they can technically do what they want...which i know totally suck for the jimmy fans (and i am a huge jimmy fan even though it may not seem like it, i am sad that he died) because it's a whole different ball game..i dunno just a thought :)


btw...i'm studying for exams at the moment so i won't be able to get back to people in a while (beginning june) i just had to write this down before i forget... :D

[Tompouce]

Withelight, welcome here and thanks for this topic:). Just to tell you, I am one of those who like this finale, there were weaknesses of course but to me, it was a real good finale. Just to be sure you add me on the list of the people who are happy with it lol

[stenochick]

I liked the finale, also. TPTB should have never teased so hard about the Doomsday-Clark showdown. That showdown will take place in the future between Superman and Doomsday. They were right to focus on Davis more than Doomsday. IMO, the outrage is more because of the "bait and switch." We were promised a big fight between Doomsday and Clark, with the inference being that the JL would be in the thick of it as well. That totally did not happen.

[ox007]

Withelight I agree with many things you said, and I too liked the finale. As was stated above by Hopefulsuicide many people have reasons to complain because of many controversial facts that happened in this episode. Fortunately I am not a hard-core shipper so I didn't cry when Henry died :rotfl: (it makes me sooo laugh when I call him Henry and not Jimmy, it's so funny!!!) and that it is not the real deal.

Secondly I don't read interviews, spoilers, etc. What's the point? It just SPOILS the fun for me and the element of surprise, and besides from what I read in the posts, the producers are changing their minds quite often and can mislead the fans on many occasions, what brings many burning issues on the forums.

Everybody talked about it so I knew that someone will die in the finale. I was hoping it would be Chloe. She's been annoying me alot lately. She had a cool role in the first seasons but now she doesn't IMO. Watchtower? Come on! And from season 5-7 she was CK's brain taking his spot lessening his role, she was playing the role of his parents with advises and all, etc. which wasn't right IMO, especially when looking at her age which is the same as Clark's. And in S8 the writers messed with her on that extent that she's annoying me like never before. I think they wanted her out of the show, which would explain why she is not in the future of CK/Supes, but they got scared as she's got a huge funbase (to be frank I don't know why :) ).

So the finale had it's flaws as stated before, but those flaws did not cause me to hate and bash the episode, it was quite entertaining. So I am the onoe of those people who actually liked it, and I like the cliffhangers, indeed I do! :)

[borednow]

*sigh* No I don't think a 4 is too harsh... after spending 3 seasons with a guy, seeing him gain his iconic little-brother statis to Lois then suddenly being told, "Hahaha! Fooled ya! We just wasted your time!" I feel ripped off and angry. I feel within my rights to feel annoyed and angry.

I've been annoyed with the doomsday arc ever since Turbulance when Davis became my lest favorite character in Smallville history, and making Chloe the new Lana...

Really Doomsday was just an exclamation point on what went wrong after Bride...

[Kal-ed]

Welcome to the forum.



Personally, I don't have an issue with this. SV's season finales have ALWAYS been cliff-hangers. The season finale is always Part 1 of a two part episode, with Part 2 airing as the season premiere in the following season. This is something all SV fans should be used to, at this point. In fact, anyone who watches TV should be used to this with 90% of the shows out there doing the same thing.

In fact, I would say that this was less of a cliff-hanger than most SV finales are. We are really only wondering about the fate of one character (Lois) -- other than that, everyone is either dead or just in mourning. We've got the whole "Zod/Tess" thing at the end, but - honestly - that made me laugh more than anything.



I think what keeps real fans coming back, season after season, is good story-telling and characters that we care about. This finale, unfortunately, was 0 for 0 in that regard. Even Lois (who I adore) may not be enough for me to care by the time October rolls around.



I think the direction of this episode was terrible and that it was the director's decision to film the scene that way. I'm in the minority here, but I don't think that it meant anything.



Because, due to their actions, Jimmy was dead. They handled the Doomsday and Davis situation poorly. They didn't have unity, because Ollie and Clark couldn't work together & the Flash and Black Canary didn't know what to do. They all need a break.



This is the only real cliff-hanger and I am curious to see what they come up with to fix this.



By making him a fake Jimmy Olsen & saying that - in fact - he was the Iconic Jimmy Olsen's older brother the whole time.



Zod or a follower of Zod.



He helped in the way that he could. They didn't have enough time for him to hang around and do more. He needed to go back and prepare the LOSH to meet DD when he go to the future.



Because he was guilty. And Jimmy was a good guy who didn't deserve to die like that. And because Ollie is awesome.



A writer may write only for himself/herself. But what makes a writer a good storyteller is that others want to read the story. If no one cares about what the writer is saying, then they are only writing for themselves. It's like a tree that falls in a forest. If a writer keeps on writing stories that only THEY want to read -- are still good writers? I don't think so.



No hatred from me. I'm glad you shared your thoughts.

I completely agree with everything except one thing: how can you still think Ollie is awsome after Doomsday and this second half of the season in general?? IMO he *was* awsome and untill they fix him, he´s a liability to the show and to the story itself.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



xrayvision, I'm quoting your post because it eloquently states my exact thoughts. Well said.


I also think the DC excuse is a bunch of bullcrap, of all the times SV has severely swayed far from the mythos, specially regarding chronology and sudenly they cry foul for Jimmy´s age?? Doesnt seem likely, specially since about 2 months ago a DC executive came out to say that SV was considered an AU so they had a lot of creative freedom.

[Aries83]

My problem was the placement of some of the cliffhangers

For example, Lois disappears first.

The Justice League talks about how they're going to destroy Doomsday after the first 3 scenes (why so late into the story?)

Jimmy's scene with Clark and his secret is interrupted by Lois and Tess's fight.

What Smallville fans are used to is having ALL the cliffhangers line up and unfold during the last 6 minutes (such as the Season 6 finale, which was brilliantly written). That didn't happen, and I think that's why it was such bomb the first time around, even though it's not as bad after subsequent viewings.

[Kal-ed]

I think the cliffhangers (or lack thereof) is certainly not the issue, nor how they were presented, the problem is that they actually wraped up a lot from this season (not everything) and well, I, and I dont seem to be the only one, didnt like how they wraped those up, at all.

[Joanna]

Long-time Smallville fan and "watcher" of the forums, but not a big poster. Most of my thoughts are usually fleshed out by other fans so I normally don't have a reason to post... until now.

I've been looking at some different threads going on and all the criticism about all the problems in "Doomsday" and how horrible this episode was, and I have some things I need to get off my chest.

IMHO, all the questions I've seen raised are valid questions - which is the purpose for a cliffhanger episode. The writers know that the show is going to take a break for a few months so they fill an episode with all kinds of situations that are not intended to be answered in that particular episode, but to keep the fans wondering how the characters are going to come out of this new mess. Sloppy writing? Maybe, but every drama series has employed this technique for a very long time - it is even used in classic and contemporary literature when an author knows that there is more to the story than what is in the book (C.S. Lewis used this in the Chronicles of Narnia, JRR Tolkein used it with Lord of the Rings, J.K. Rowling used it with Harry Potter, etc.)

Should we wonder what is coming up next and question what happened with all the strange goings on? Yes - that is what is going to keep the real fans coming back season after season. Will all our questions be answered? Why did Clark vanish as he walked out of the Watchtower? Why did the JLA disband? Where did Lois go? How could they kill off Jimmy? Who was that guy holding the orb? Why didn't Rokk help Clark more? Why did Ollie shed a tear for Jimmy - a guy he barely knew and recruited into his team just a few weeks ago?

There are lots of questions and I hope the writers will be able to address all of them. Will there answers satisfy my curiousity? Probably not - because my expectations and their vision are not the same. It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.

I really liked your post. I agree with you as to most issues and I definitely believe that positive thinking is more than advised, especially before such a long break :)

[Kneel before Zod]

Your post suggests that you were way too invested into the Fight Scene aspect of the episode rather than the whole.

Pretty much everyone ended in doomsday.
The episode was called "DOOMSDAY". The name of the episode leads one to believe that the episode will focus on the Clark/Doomsday fight. The episode should've been called: "Davis, and Henry, and Zod, Oh My!"

Aside from the depressingly pathetic fight scene, I enjoyed the episode.

[jon-el87]

There are lots of questions and I hope the writers will be able to address all of them. Will there answers satisfy my curiousity? Probably not - because my expectations and their vision are not the same. It was once said that a writer doesn't write for the public, but for himself/herself. He/she is trying to tell a story. Our expectations may be different, and we may be upset with how a character is treated in a story but in reality these characters aren't ours - they are the creation of the writers. This is true even of Smallville. Yes, the characters are based on the Superman mythos from the DC universe, but the key is based on. They need to give it their own personal interpretation. Did "Lois and Clark" completely match up to the mythos? No. Did all the movies match up to the mythos? No. Did the serials and tv series match up? Did any of the animated versions of Supes match up? No. Am I disappointed? Not really, because I have an opportunity to see how someone else views how this universe should be. Will Smallville every fully match up to the DC universe? I doubt it, but this isn't the real DC universe - it is at best an alternate reality to what comic book lovers refer to as the DC universe.

I know I'm going to have some hatred coming my way about my little rant here, but I couldn't just let it go.

Yeah, you're right. Also, what works in the comics doesn't always work in live action. Let's take the Incredible Hulk movie as an example. They changed several things for the movie: Bruce Banner didn't become the Hulk as a result of being exposed to the rays of a Gamma Bomb, but was rather caused by an attempt to create a super-soldier serum (making this version closer to the Ultimate Marvel version of the Hulk); Emil Blonsky was a Russian KGB agent in the comics, naturally the cold war is over and the Sovjetunion is gone, so they couldn't do this. Instead they turned Blonsky into a Russian-born officer within the British Special Forces. And that is how it works. Venom's origin was altered a little for Spider-Man 3, because in the comics, the Venom symbiote was found by Spider-Man during Secret Wars and brought back with him to Earth. So, if they'd stayed true to Venom's origin, they would have had to had made a Secret Wars movie, prior to Spider-Man 3, just to make it work. In the first Spider-Man movie, they replaced the radioactive spider with a genetically designed "super-spider" and replaced his web-shooters with organic web (simply because, the whole idea of Peter sitting down and building himself a pair of web-shooters would to too far fetched, not to mention it would take time away from the rest of the movie) and the list goes on.
In Smallville Bart Allen has taken the place of both his grandfather, Barry Allen, and his cousin, Wally West, been given their origin (rather then his own comic book origin, where he's from the future, aged at an incredible rate and was sent back to the present to be cured by his cousin Wally) and took Barry's place as a founding member of the Justice League; Victor Stone was hurt in a car accident, rather then Victor visiting his parents on day at S.T.A.R. Labs and an experiment involving dimensional travel went horribly wrong, when a massive monster crossed over an experimental portal, killed Victor's mother and severly mutilated him. Which was then followed by his father giving him experimental prosthetics, in order to save Victor's life. Now, you gotta admit that that is extremely outlandish and doesn't really fit into concepts like Smallville (which appears to wanna be a little more "real world", then the actual comics, which is why we've never heard anything about Atlantis). No, it's simpler to just have him be the result of Luthorcorp experiments with bionics. Then we've got Victor's exoskeleton, which was replaced by an endoskeleton. well, there you've got money and budget as the primary causes of that.

[fan of the man]

You know I have listen to alot of you complained about the writing and how farfetched it is, do any you read comics? because you need to understand it is all fantasy it is not true, oh yea some is true to life, but most is "farfetch" as some of you might say, for example I just got thru reading 1994 copy of Action Comic #700. You know up until that Comic everyone thought Lex Luthor had died and his son Lex Jr who was supposely mothered by Lex's doctor Gretchen kelly was running Luthor Corp, but Lois had found out that the real Lex whose was really dying was still alive and that Lex Jr was a genecic remake or clone of the real Lex Luthor. When Lois went to make her finding public with GBS TV with a interview with Cat Grant, the real Lex activate his plan of retaliation against Metropolis, but Superman, Superboy and Supergirl could not stop the on slaught and quest what Superman did? He did the most un Superman thing by most of you, He Blame himself, he didn't do enough to save Metropolis, Lois try to console him, but he was devistated by is inabilty to stop the slaughter, by the way if you want to check it out it is on page 51. Now remember this was writen in 1994, how did all of sudden Lex have a full grown son full of red hair and built like a man of steel, and no one knew about it until recent, sounds a little far fetch to me, but of course I know it is a comic and I liked it, and Superman being a big dope and blames himself for every little failure that cost a life, but somehow I looke at him being human who cares,but that me.

[Sweetie]

what's stopping them from erasing Clark or Lois?

The cancellation of the show,may be ;)

I know what you mean.Sometimes,that show is so strange.The situations that CK is in now are supposed to happen in the future.Sometimes,I wonder if everything is not only warnings or possible events which would have been part of his training.Then CK returns and everything is changed.Johnathan & Martha are still at the farm.Lana is married to nice fellow in France.Lex is mayor of Metropolis.Chloe is a FBI's agent.Lois is star-reporter of the DP and Perry White is her boss.

After what they did with Jimmy it wouldn't suprise me at all.

[rajman]

I think that not sticking to the DC universe isn't always a bad thing.
Clark and lois aren't going anywhere, Souders and Peterson said that themselves and there is speculation that Erica has signed for something like 17 episodes for season 9.
Otherwise i agree with you supertaz

[Odysseus]

Good post.

I had no problems with the episode and, as has been noted in this and other threads, understood that this was a "cliffhanger" and that the unanswered questions were not just limited to Zod at the end (clearly SW [which makes sense if Zod had any role in Doomsday's "construction" by contributing his DNA {which could also explain why "split" Davis would still be evil and kill Jimmy}]).

Considering how many have complained of how far afield Smallville has gotten from the mythos, you would think that people would appreciate the fact that TPTB tried to "reset" some of the well-known canon (Jimmy, D-day underground, etc.). Instead, people are howling that returning to the known story is somehow a slap in the face of the fans.

I do think we will see much more of the CK vs. Doomsday fight in the S9 premiere.

Exactly. The writers moved closer to the mythos with this past episode. And every season finale leaves questions to be answered in the next season premiere. That's standard procedure for most shows.

[ox007]

Great thread, I enjoyed the episode as well, even though it had some bad or strange twists, I hope that the next season will explain all these quastions that we raise!

[Sweetie]

Their idea for season 9 is reajusted the show.They killed off Jimmy because he was too old and brought a younger one.They send Lois in the future because that's where she supposed to be.Clark will go talk to Jor-El who will convaince him to do his training,CK will come back with a nerdy attitude,wearing glasses and tie.Chloe will be the watchtower for JL.

[ox007]

Their idea for season 9 is reajusted the show.They killed off Jimmy because he was too old and brought a younger one.They send Lois in the future because that's where she supposed to be.Clark will go talk to Jor-El who will convaince him to do his training,CK will come back with a nerdy attitude,wearing glasses and tie.Chloe will be the watchtower for JL.

No no no, please no lame nerdy attitudes, it worked perfectly with Chris Reeve in the 80s but now we've got the 21 century and it wouldn't fit at all, and I hope there won't be any big training, it only happened in the movie, it does not have to occure on SV in the same manner, he should train of course, but not for many years before he comes back to DP. So I hope they don't make it exactly as it was in the movie.

Lois is rumored to be in at least 17 episodes, so I think she'll play an important role in S9 and I hope they don't gonna mess it up just to align more things to the mythos (whatever they are, because comics, movies, tv shows have created different mythos). :)

[Sweetie]

No no no, please no lame nerdy attitudes, it worked perfectly with Chris Reeve in the 80s but now we've got the 21 century and it wouldn't fit at all, and I hope there won't be any big training, it only happened in the movie, it does not have to occure on SV in the same manner, he should train of course, but not for many years before he comes back to DP. So I hope they don't make it exactly as it was in the movie.

Lois is rumored to be in at least 17 episodes, so I think she'll play an important role in S9 and I hope they don't gonna mess it up just to align more things to the mythos (whatever they are, because comics, movies, tv shows have created different mythos). :)


I don't want him to have a nerdy attitude either.It would pretty weird after seeing has a hunk for 8 seasons.But,he got to wear glasses though.I don't think they are planning to do a long training.When he vanished in the last scene,I had the feeling that's where he went.So,when the show returns so will he.

As for Lois,she'll come back from her adventure in the future and she will named the red & blue blur superman.Can't wait :)

[Philster]

Well it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on the Season 8 finale.

I have to say that those that think it was rubbish and that last year's finale was better should watch it again and get to grips with the mythology.

Although I was expecting better, the fight with Doomsday and Clark was quite fitting. Obviously, the production team had budgets to keep to but, if you think about it, the fight had to be done like this. Why, for a couple of reasons. First of all, the fight between Doomsday and Superman shouldn't be over shadowed. Granted a little more action would have been better. The other thing is that Clark knew the only way to stop Doomsday was to trap him so why try and do anything else. At first I hated the fight but, after watching it again, it was fitting. This now explains how Doomsday is found where he is in the future. Let's hope it's left at that.

Glad Davis was killed because the character didn't do anything for me.

Liked the opening scene with Rokk and Clark. It was a shame Jimmy was killed but it is understandable why. Jimmy is considerabley younger than Clark and Lois so having Jimmy's younger brother being the real Jimmy Olsen is fitting even if it is a bit cheesy. Would have been better if he was killed off at the end of the series though.

The final scenes between Clark and Chloe and the funeral was interesting but confusing. I can understand that Clark stayed away from the funeral because of what happened. However, it was Chloe's comments that made me think ERh!! Ollie, Bart and Dina off the radar when she walked off from the funeral with Dina putting her arm around Chloe. To top it off, Clark walking off like a ghost??? It made me think of a few explanations. The main was is Chloe still alive? Hope this is cleared up in the Season 9 opener. It looks like there'll be a time jump between seasons.

Before you dismiss this finale, think about why certain things have happened. Let's face it, it was much better than last year's finale. However, I think Season 6's finale is going to take some beating.

[REebee52]

Well it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on the Season 8 finale.

I have to say that those that think it was rubbish and that last year's finale was better should watch it again and get to grips with the mythology.

Although I was expecting better, the fight with Doomsday and Clark was quite fitting. Obviously, the production team had budgets to keep to but, if you think about it, the fight had to be done like this. Why, for a couple of reasons. First of all, the fight between Doomsday and Superman shouldn't be over shadowed. Granted a little more action would have been better. The other thing is that Clark knew the only way to stop Doomsday was to trap him so why try and do anything else. At first I hated the fight but, after watching it again, it was fitting. This now explains how Doomsday is found where he is in the future. Let's hope it's left at that.

Glad Davis was killed because the character didn't do anything for me.

Liked the opening scene with Rokk and Clark. It was a shame Jimmy was killed but it is understandable why. Jimmy is considerabley younger than Clark and Lois so having Jimmy's younger brother being the real Jimmy Olsen is fitting even if it is a bit cheesy. Would have been better if he was killed off at the end of the series though.

The final scenes between Clark and Chloe and the funeral was interesting but confusing. I can understand that Clark stayed away from the funeral because of what happened. However, it was Chloe's comments that made me think ERh!! Ollie, Bart and Dina off the radar when she walked off from the funeral with Dina putting her arm around Chloe. To top it off, Clark walking off like a ghost??? It made me think of a few explanations. The main was is Chloe still alive? Hope this is cleared up in the Season 9 opener. It looks like there'll be a time jump between seasons.

Before you dismiss this finale, think about why certain things have happened. Let's face it, it was much better than last year's finale. However, I think Season 6's finale is going to take some beating.

I disagree with you. Here's why.

The fight with Doomsday and Clark was weak, puny, and short. It was promised to be a challenge for Clark, and said it would be a big battle. The cost thing doesn't convince me. It doesn't take a lot of money for them to throw more punches. Not every hit they deliver has to send the other flying across the city. See Superman Doomsday or Clark vs. Titan. A lot of their punches look like two regular guys fighting each other. It's made intense by different tricks. We deserved a fight. Not a punch/knee/super jump.

Jimmy should not have died, for many reasons. Yes he's older than usual, but this is a reinvention, and a lot of characters have been changed as well. The Kents are often portrayed much older, does that mean we should change them because they aren't the real Kents? You don't introduce a character named Jimmy Olsen in ANY Superman show and then kill him, claiming "It wasn't really him." Blech. It is infuriating.

The fact that this episode, a season finale, wasn't even in the running for best episode shows a lot. Season finales are supposed to be some of the best episodes, of any series. This wasn't even close. And season's sevens was, I think, better. Not by much, it was stil pretty bad. Seasons 3,4,5,6 however were amazing.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I can understand Smallville being a "retelling", I wouldn't go as far as say "reinvention". I mean, I think I could have taken Smallville Jimmy being the same age as Clark and part of it was because I loved Aaron Ashemoore's take on the character but at the same time this Jimmy was not only the same age as Clark but married. I loved Smallville Jimmy but the character's development caused the character to stray away from his comic book counter part by giant leaps. I mean Smallville was really taking the lore and pushing it past it's boundaries. Part of me hates what they did because I liked Aaron Ashmoore but the other side understands why they did it. I kind of agree with the OP. The only thing that upset me about the finale was the lack of Clois and the Jimmy swap. But if I'm being completely honest with myself, both reasons are derived from petty motivations (like more Clois even if the story doesn't really need it, Aaron Ashmoore was such a likeable Jimmy but Jimmy isn't married ect.) and can't really say that the writing was all that terrible from a logical point of view since to me, it did make sense... to me anyways.

[LJ-90]

Well it's been interesting reading everyone's thoughts on the Season 8 finale.

I have to say that those that think it was rubbish and that last year's finale was better should watch it again and get to grips with the mythology.

Although I was expecting better, the fight with Doomsday and Clark was quite fitting. Obviously, the production team had budgets to keep to but, if you think about it, the fight had to be done like this. Why, for a couple of reasons. First of all, the fight between Doomsday and Superman shouldn't be over shadowed. Granted a little more action would have been better. The other thing is that Clark knew the only way to stop Doomsday was to trap him so why try and do anything else. At first I hated the fight but, after watching it again, it was fitting. This now explains how Doomsday is found where he is in the future. Let's hope it's left at that.

Glad Davis was killed because the character didn't do anything for me.

Liked the opening scene with Rokk and Clark. It was a shame Jimmy was killed but it is understandable why. Jimmy is considerabley younger than Clark and Lois so having Jimmy's younger brother being the real Jimmy Olsen is fitting even if it is a bit cheesy. Would have been better if he was killed off at the end of the series though.

The final scenes between Clark and Chloe and the funeral was interesting but confusing. I can understand that Clark stayed away from the funeral because of what happened. However, it was Chloe's comments that made me think ERh!! Ollie, Bart and Dina off the radar when she walked off from the funeral with Dina putting her arm around Chloe. To top it off, Clark walking off like a ghost??? It made me think of a few explanations. The main was is Chloe still alive? Hope this is cleared up in the Season 9 opener. It looks like there'll be a time jump between seasons.

Before you dismiss this finale, think about why certain things have happened. Let's face it, it was much better than last year's finale. However, I think Season 6's finale is going to take some beating.

I disagree with you, especially in the bolded parts, and here's why:

First, the fight didn't need to be done like that. I mean, you bring Doomsday, promise a "huge throwdown" and then give your fans a 30 second fight? I mean really?...And it didn't even affected the budget, I mean...just have Clark punch Doomsday once...a litlle shaky cam and that's it. Make Clark prepare the super-breath (just add the sound effect) and then DD punchs him...better. Hell, just make Clark's eyes glow red (heat vision) and before he can use it make DD punch him...it's not that hard. Besides, I've seen way better fights in youtube. Also, I didn't expected an awesome fight, I wanted something like I described, CK tries to use one of his powers but DD punchs him before he can, or at least Clark punchs him once.

It was dissapointing.

Davis, well...his death didn't do anything for me. Although I can understand his fans going all "wtf"...

Second, the Jimmy retcon. Oh how I love this point. You see, you're right, Jimmy in the comics is actually like 10 years younger than Clark, so he's not like his comic ounterpart. But again, in this show...who is?

We have a Clark Kent who is like 22 and still can't fly, we have a euroasian Lana with superpowers (in the comics she's red-headed and actually her relationship with Clark didn't involve so much drama) a black Pete (who's white in the comics, and actually is Clark's best friend, and stays with him for a big part of his life) we also have an Oliver Queen that is a litle trigger happy...

The point is, they can't use the "mythos" excuse with Jimmy...if that's the case, well then they better correct all the other stuff that doesn't alygn with the mythos. If they did a shor battle because they wanted to "get closer to the mythos", well, I expect they retcon Lois meeting Clark, Pete's absense, Chloe's existence, Lana's life...everything.

And that involves Lucy Lane, because she's around Jimmy's age in the comics. I think they even dated in the silver age...so if "the real Jimmy" is a kid now, they better show us "the real Lucy"...I don't want a LL in jail when she tries to date Jimmy Olsen.

Besides, they sold Aaron as Jimmy, interviews talked about him being the future "Superman's Pal"...hell in season 7 they had a featurette involving him and all the other incarnations of Jimmy Olsen.

It was disrespectful, to Aaron and to me as a fan.

So no, it's not fitting, and it's not a good move. It's stupid and, again, disrespectful.

Oh, Chloe's lines...Jesus, that girl is incredible. I mean...his best friend just get out of a battle to the death, he is thinking he had something to do with Jimmy's death and all she can say is "I really needed you, why didn't you come to me? Jimmy bought this place to me...me, me , me, me , me..."

And one of the worst lines was "I did exactly what you wanted Clark..."

No Chloe, Clark wanted to split him, but be there so nobody got hurt...his plan didn't involve any of them getting in the way, it did involve they helping him, but not they trying to fiz a situation that everybody knew only Clark could handle...

But that's just me...

Anyway, no I don't think certain things HAD TO happen. I think the producers only did it for the shock value, and they shoot themselfs in the foot. For me it was no better than the season 7 finale, both had something I liked (Artict: Brainiac is Kara! Doomsday: Jimmy discovering the secret) but a lot I disliked.

That's my opinion.

[xrayvision]

I agree with every word you said LJ-90 & said the same myself in various threads. It didn't take a genius to have made this finale epic. It did take whopping morons to screw it up, and alas, that's what the remaining portion of PS3 going into season 9 (namely PS) are.

I really disliked Arctic, but I hated Doomsday so much more. Even though Doomsday had that 1 scene with Clark & Jimmy that I loved, the end result (the lack of the fight, the destruction of Jimmy, the disgusting selfish behavior of Chloe, and the idiocy of the JLA which royally screwed Clark & his plan on top of what Chloe did in Beast) made this in my opinion be the worst episode of Smallville history. It outdid Power (which had not a single scene I liked), and I thought nothing could beat Power for the worst episode. I will never forget what they did to Jimmy. My opinion & respect of this show has permanently dropped because of that. It could be restored if they undo Jimmy's death, but they said they wouldn't, so the show lost a great deal of my respect.

Another thing that bothered me that not too many are talking about other than myself is how they are setting up season 9 as the Justice League show. Based on the events of Doomsday, the show's focus will not be on the Daily Planet (much less than season 8 when the focus should be much more than season 8). With Jimmy (a Daily Planet character) dead and Clark ditching his human life (meaning ditching his job too since someone who switches to living a fully alien life doesn't work at a newspaper with humans), only Lois will be in the Daily Planet. That by itself is a telling sign. Then we have the debut of the Watchtower set in Doomsday, which is another sign.

My recommendation is forget about the damn Watchtower & about Clark living solely an alien life. This should not happen now. This is something that should have happened in season 5. This is regression. They should keep Clark in the Daily Planet or make him quit to work for another newspaper (away from Lois) and for Perry White, so Perry could be his mentor & Clark could grow into a reporter away from Lois, who keeps hogging all the stories from him. They could have Clark & Lois cross paths during investigations & spend more time together outside of work. At the same time, they should use the current Watchtower set instead as Intergang's headquarters & introduce Intergang in season 9.

I even posted a detailed layout for what I think is the perfect way to start the first 4 episodes of season 9. It would bring the show back to where it needs to be at this specific point.

[9-SOSIHTWB]

I really enjoyed the finale, but I am seriously confused about the end scene with Clark and Chloe! When I finally manage to work out a logical answer about Clark fading away for example, someone else mentions something that totally knocks it! (if that makes sense)

I agree with many when the say that they are glad Davis is dead! I thought the character was annoying and his scenes bored me (sorry if thats a bit harsh)!

I really hope that they don't drag the Zod storyline across the whole of season 9 because they've been there and done it, it would be like Vessel and Zod stretched into 22 episodes! I really hope they have some really good reasons for all the confusion and bringing back Zod or many fans may get bored!

[borednow]

Second, the Jimmy retcon. Oh how I love this point. You see, you're right, Jimmy in the comics is actually like 10 years younger than Clark, so he's not like his comic ounterpart. But again, in this show...who is?

We have a Clark Kent who is like 22 and still can't fly, we have a euroasian Lana with superpowers (in the comics she's red-headed and actually her relationship with Clark didn't involve so much drama) a black Pete (who's white in the comics, and actually is Clark's best friend, and stays with him for a big part of his life) we also have an Oliver Queen that is a litle trigger happy...

The point is, they can't use the "mythos" excuse with Jimmy...if that's the case, well then they better correct all the other stuff that doesn't alygn with the mythos. If they did a shor battle because they wanted to "get closer to the mythos", well, I expect they retcon Lois meeting Clark, Pete's absense, Chloe's existence, Lana's life...everything.

And that involves Lucy Lane, because she's around Jimmy's age in the comics. I think they even dated in the silver age...so if "the real Jimmy" is a kid now, they better show us "the real Lucy"...I don't want a LL in jail when she tries to date Jimmy Olsen.

Besides, they sold Aaron as Jimmy, interviews talked about him being the future "Superman's Pal"...hell in season 7 they had a featurette involving him and all the other incarnations of Jimmy Olsen.

It was disrespectful, to Aaron and to me as a fan.

So no, it's not fitting, and it's not a good move. It's stupid and, again, disrespectful.

There are only so many ways to say it but I completely agree here.

[Isabel14]

I must disagree with you..The final was terrible, because it didn't dissapointed a certain part of the fans, but all the fans: Clois fans, Chlavis fans, Chimmy fans, Chloe fans, fans who loved action scenes, and the last the Jimmy fans...At least none of the previous final managed to do such a thing..

[xrayvision]

I really enjoyed the finale, but I am seriously confused about the end scene with Clark and Chloe! When I finally manage to work out a logical answer about Clark fading away for example, someone else mentions something that totally knocks it! (if that makes sense)

I agree with many when the say that they are glad Davis is dead! I thought the character was annoying and his scenes bored me (sorry if thats a bit harsh)!

I really hope that they don't drag the Zod storyline across the whole of season 9 because they've been there and done it, it would be like Vessel and Zod stretched into 22 episodes! I really hope they have some really good reasons for all the confusion and bringing back Zod or many fans may get bored!

I tend to think, or should I say hope, that Davis is the one who had the metaphorical death. He is the son of Zod & Faora & once he was split from Doomsday & any effects Doomsday would have on his accumulation of powers from the yellow sun, he should have become a normal Kryptonian like Clark. If he will be the vessel for Zod, then he would have to be alive and had recovered from his impaling. So I think or hope that after Davis was impaled, he healed much like Raya did after she was stabbed. I'd say his yellow solar reserves were extremely low after Doomsday split off from him. We saw with our own eyes that one minute he was face to face with Doomsday & the next moment when Clark found him with the Justice League, he was unconscious from then until the morning when he impaled Jimmy. I'd say Doomsday gave him a beating, which he eventually recovered from. This would allow him to be alive since Zod needs a living vessel to possess. No phantom has ever possessed a dead vessel. Therefore, I'm saying/hoping that once Davis recovered, the orb controlled him by summoning him to the Luthor mansion---meaning that the real Traveler was Davis, which aligns with the origin of Veritas as told in Justice & Doom. J&D said that Gertrude (Genevieve Teague's ancestor in the 1600's seen in Lana's dream in an episode) in the 1600s had a vision of Zod. Knowing that the orb was the Veritas secret, it was probably around back then and used by Gertrude. So who better to have as the Traveler than the son of the Kryptonian who Gertrude had a vision of---Davis. This would mean that Naman is Clark & Davis is the Traveler. And the misinterpretation was caused by Jor-El's message that Swann picked up. Up until then, I'd say the Traveler was someone who was deemed a threat, but Jor-El's message caused all sorts of confusion. Another clue that points towards this is Lionel's warning of something terrible coming in his last few episodes. I think at the end, Lionel realized what was happening and how Lex was going to control the real Traveler. We know from the alternate reality in Apocalypse that Brainiac's endgame of bringing Zod back was still on. We also know that the Kara who left Krypton with Clark in Apocalypse was Brainiac as he revealed in Arctic since the real Kara was sent to the Phantom Zone while she was on Krypton. We even know that Brainiac as Kara then started persuading Lex to use the orb at the Fortress. But the thing is Brainiac never wanted to control Clark. Brainiac was using Lex's hatred of the Traveler to get him to ultimately release Zod & fulfill Brainiac's own endgame. I think plugging the orb in the Fortress caused Zod's phantom to enter the orb and the next step would have been having the orb control & take over Davis.

The reason why I want this explanation to be given is because it would avoid another plothole by having Zod's phantom possess a dead vessel & more importantly because it would mean that Clark really did die underground in the hole (perhaps he & Doomsday killed each other) and his body would have to be dug up, leading to an actual fight with Doomsday.

[LJ-90]

I tend to think, or should I say hope, that Davis is the one who had the metaphorical death. He is the son of Zod & Faora & once he was split from Doomsday & any effects Doomsday would have on his accumulation of powers from the yellow sun, he should have become a normal Kryptonian like Clark. If he will be the vessel for Zod, then he would have to be alive and had recovered from his impaling. So I think or hope that after Davis was impaled, he healed much like Raya did after she was stabbed. I'd say his yellow solar reserves were extremely low after Doomsday split off from him. We saw with our own eyes that one minute he was face to face with Doomsday & the next moment when Clark found him with the Justice League, he was unconscious from then until the morning when he impaled Jimmy. I'd say Doomsday gave him a beating, which he eventually recovered from. This would allow him to be alive since Zod needs a living vessel to possess. No phantom has ever possessed a dead vessel. Therefore, I'm saying/hoping that once Davis recovered, the orb controlled him by summoning him to the Luthor mansion---meaning that the real Traveler was Davis, which aligns with the origin of Veritas as told in Justice & Doom. J&D said that Gertrude (Genevieve Teague's ancestor in the 1600's seen in Lana's dream in an episode) in the 1600s had a vision of Zod. Knowing that the orb was the Veritas secret, it was probably around back then and used by Gertrude. So who better to have as the Traveler than the son of the Kryptonian who Gertrude had a vision of---Davis. This would mean that Naman is Clark & Davis is the Traveler. And the misinterpretation was caused by Jor-El's message that Swann picked up. Up until then, I'd say the Traveler was someone who was deemed a threat, but Jor-El's message caused all sorts of confusion. Another clue that points towards this is Lionel's warning of something terrible coming in his last few episodes. I think at the end, Lionel realized what was happening and how Lex was going to control the real Traveler. We know from the alternate reality in Apocalypse that Brainiac's endgame of bringing Zod back was still on. We also know that the Kara who left Krypton with Clark in Apocalypse was Brainiac as he revealed in Arctic since the real Kara was sent to the Phantom Zone while she was on Krypton. We even know that Brainiac as Kara then started persuading Lex to use the orb at the Fortress. But the thing is Brainiac never wanted to control Clark. Brainiac was using Lex's hatred of the Traveler to get him to ultimately release Zod & fulfill Brainiac's own endgame. I think plugging the orb in the Fortress caused Zod's phantom to enter the orb and the next step would have been having the orb control & take over Davis.

The reason why I want this explanation to be given is because it would avoid another plothole by having Zod's phantom possess a dead vessel & more importantly because it would mean that Clark really did die underground in the hole (perhaps he & Doomsday killed each other) and his body would have to be dug up, leading to an actual fight with Doomsday.

Holy ship Batman! That's awesome!

I really hope this theory ends up being true! It would explain a lot...although they should also explain all of this slowly...I mean, I think your one of the few people who would actually get it. Especially if'll start quoting J&D because not every fan has say this...and it would be nice of them to talk about Lionel, and that someone please punch Chloe because of the horrible way she and Clark treated Lionel in his last episodes...I mean, even when he was dead Chloe didn't show signs of being sorry for the way she acted, even when she understood what was really happening, that Lionel was trying to protect Clark...

I think that's when my Chloe hater persona was born...

Anyway, xrayvision, I totally agree with your points, in both of your posts.

I disliked Artict, maybe I didn't hate it because I wasn't a Smallville fan at the time, but it did had one scene I like, the Kara is Brainiac one...and maybe the Jimmy proposal, always been a sucker for the "geeky underdog guy who happens to be a sweet person", but Doomsday...I hated it. It had the Jimmy-RBB scene, I loved that scene, for all the other stuff...the Jimmy retcon, the short fight, the appearence of the JL when they didn't do almost anything, making Chloe a saint and a hero...

I mean, what were they thinking? I understand they were under pressure...and that the script went trough several re writes...but still...

Like you said, my respect for this show will never been the same, the Jimmy retcon will forever be in my mind when somebody talk about this show...at this point I'll just watch the show for entertainment, not because I'm a fan and I'm excited or something...just because I don't have anything better to do. They went from making me a fan of their show with great storylines and awesome episodes (First half of season 8) to make me go back at being a casual viewer (Second half and Doomsday episode especially)

I hope they don't go the "Justice League show" route, I would hate that. They need to understand that this season was great at some point because they had Clark at the DP, falling in love with Lois, they had the RBB, and they had episodes such as "Identity" (That was awesome...)

They have to see that when they give the fans what they want, everybody's happy..the CW is happy with the ratings, the fans are happy, and everybody is praising them.

People don't want a JL show, they want a Clark show...but, once they say in a interview that "doing a Justice show would be so great" so i guess they're taking their opportunity now that they can play with the DC characthers all they want. I just hope DC won't let them ruin another characther...please, not let them use Batman.

I agree with introducing Intergang, and probably making Clark a reporter in another newspaper (set off screen), maybe a tabloid...then it could be a recurring joke how three of the best in the DP started in tabloids (Perry, Lois and Clark)...

I would love to see the post where you show how next season should start, can you send me a link or something?

[xrayvision]

Holy ship Batman! That's awesome!

I really hope this theory ends up being true! It would explain a lot...although they should also explain all of this slowly...I mean, I think your one of the few people who would actually get it. Especially if'll start quoting J&D because not every fan has say this...and it would be nice of them to talk about Lionel, and that someone please punch Chloe because of the horrible way she and Clark treated Lionel in his last episodes...I mean, even when he was dead Chloe didn't show signs of being sorry for the way she acted, even when she understood what was really happening, that Lionel was trying to protect Clark...

I think that's when my Chloe hater persona was born...

Anyway, xrayvision, I totally agree with your points, in both of your posts.

I disliked Artict, maybe I didn't hate it because I wasn't a Smallville fan at the time, but it did had one scene I like, the Kara is Brainiac one...and maybe the Jimmy proposal, always been a sucker for the "geeky underdog guy who happens to be a sweet person", but Doomsday...I hated it. It had the Jimmy-RBB scene, I loved that scene, for all the other stuff...the Jimmy retcon, the short fight, the appearence of the JL when they didn't do almost anything, making Chloe a saint and a hero...

I mean, what were they thinking? I understand they were under pressure...and that the script went trough several re writes...but still...

Like you said, my respect for this show will never been the same, the Jimmy retcon will forever be in my mind when somebody talk about this show...at this point I'll just watch the show for entertainment, not because I'm a fan and I'm excited or something...just because I don't have anything better to do. They went from making me a fan of their show with great storylines and awesome episodes (First half of season 8) to make me go back at being a casual viewer (Second half and Doomsday episode especially)

I hope they don't go the "Justice League show" route, I would hate that. They need to understand that this season was great at some point because they had Clark at the DP, falling in love with Lois, they had the RBB, and they had episodes such as "Identity" (That was awesome...)

They have to see that when they give the fans what they want, everybody's happy..the CW is happy with the ratings, the fans are happy, and everybody is praising them.

People don't want a JL show, they want a Clark show...but, once they say in a interview that "doing a Justice show would be so great" so i guess they're taking their opportunity now that they can play with the DC characthers all they want. I just hope DC won't let them ruin another characther...please, not let them use Batman.

I agree with introducing Intergang, and probably making Clark a reporter in another newspaper (set off screen), maybe a tabloid...then it could be a recurring joke how three of the best in the DP started in tabloids (Perry, Lois and Clark)...

I would love to see the post where you show how next season should start, can you send me a link or something?

My main reason for watching it is that I started watching from season 1, got hooked on it during season 2 & wanted to see how it ends. Though if they continue to give us crappy plots & scenes and continue throwing Chloe (whose scenes are getting worse than Lana's & I just can't stand watching anymore), then I may stop watching, especially now that it will be on Friday nights instead. I used to love Chloe in the first 4 seasons, but since season 5 when she did all the thinking & investigating for Clark and started bossing him around while becoming smug & a dramaqueen, I have lost my respect for her. Why would I want to waste Friday nights watching that when I can go out with friends & have fun?

Anyway, here's the post laying out my version of the 1st four episodes of season 9 (very long):

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4907661&postcount=213

I also did a version of the same layout, but of the first 3 out of those 4 episodes as a Smallville Pre-Season 9 movie that would be 3 hours long & air over 2 nights in August. It has a cliffhanger, so that the ending of the 3rd episode (with the conclusion of the Doomsday fight) & entire 4th episode in the other version of this layout linked above would be the Season 9 premiere. Here is the Pre-Season 9 movie version of the layout:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=128767

There's really no need to check this out if you checked out my other version, unless you want to see the reasons I gave for it, which is at the very end of the 1st post. I suggested it because I think it would have a seperate budget & hype up the upcoming season 9 after fixing what I & many others here view as the mistakes made.

And here are my key points to a successful season 9:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4928235&postcount=87