Has anyone even appreciated that Chloe is ALIVE? [Archive] - Page 2

LJ-90

06-12-2009, 09:01 PM

If she has made mistakes she needs a redeption arc for next season she dosent have to leave, Clark has screw things up more than Chloe so dont say she needs to leave because of her bad choices.

Im glad Chloe is alive :)

He screw up in Exodus...and he leave.

Actually, when Clark screw up (and even when he doesn't) he takes it very hard...instead, Chloe, she shrugs and says "Hey, it was your plan!" "Hey! I did for you!" "No! It wasn't my choice!"

The best thing for next season would be more Clark and more Chloe, with less of the unnecessary characters. They started the cleanup by getting rid of Jimmy. Now it should be Lois' turn for the axe.

Depending of the way you see it (in this case, mythos) I would call Chloe an unnecessary character...it was cool when Clark needed help with research and that kinda stuff, but now he is a grown man, he doesn't need this girl (who gets in way over her head...and not in a good way) to keep giving him advice in how to live his life and be a hero...after all, she is partially to blame for the Doomsday and Jimmy fiasco.

I don't want a Clark & Chloe show...I want a Clark show, all of the rest are secondary to this story. Although I'm happy with Lois, she is becoming what her comic counterpart is...well, she is as close as anybody can be in Smallville.

If they do a "cleanup" I want them to get rid of Chloe, it's only fair...they get rid of Jimmy for "the mytho's sake"? Well...I want Chloe's existence completely erased from the universe then. I also want a Lois retcon, a Lucy retcon, a Pete retcon, a Lana retcon, a Clark retcon, a FOS retcon, a Jor-El retcon, a Zod retcon...

The point being, if you suggest a "cleanup" you should think of the consequences...

Oh btw, I'm not a Chloe hater, although I'm mad at the way her character is being portrayed now...not taking blame for her actions and all of that.

That's my opinion.

Please don't kill me.

Lilah

06-12-2009, 11:15 PM

The best thing for next season would be more Clark and more Chloe, with less of the unnecessary characters. They started the cleanup by getting rid of Jimmy. Now it should be Lois' turn for the axe.

Considering Chloe is the only one out of all the characters you mentioned that is unnecessary in the grand scheme of things. Clark, Lois and Jimmy are all iconic characters. They go together like a PB&J sandwich. Its the Trio. Chloe is the only one that doesn't fit. But she's kept alive for 25% of the show's fanbase apparently, cause her story should have been done in Commencement when Clark graduated.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

If she has made mistakes she needs a redeption arc for next season she dosent have to leave, Clark has screw things up more than Chloe so dont say she needs to leave because of her bad choices.

Im glad Chloe is alive :)

And yet, Clark's owned up to his mistakes. I'm still waiting for Chloe to do the same.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

im glad chloe didn`t die.she has one season where her character has not been written well and people want her off the show.get a grip!!

In my defense, I've wanted her gone since Season 5. She just didn't fit in the story line anymore and yet they force wrote her in. It was cool that she was a childhood friend, it made sense and it could have been put into the canon mythology. Clark wasn't a loner, who's to say he didn't go to school with a Chloe Sullivan who was the editor of his high school newspaper. But the truth is they've taken too many liberties with her character: knowing Clark's secret early on (Lana trait), being his bff (Pete trait), harboring childhood feelings (Lana trait), Journalism (Lois trait), Daily Planet Reporter (Lois trait), Editor (Perry White trait), Go-to Girl for research (Jimmy trait), Watchtower (Martian Manhunter trait), Doomsday love connection (suicide move on the writers part). All these and more are reasons why she'll never be in the comic. She's not even really an original character. Just a mix of a bunch of other characters in the mythology.

The point is, her time is up. She's got to go. Whether by moving far, far away or dying I really don't care. But she needs to leave already.

LJ-90

06-13-2009, 12:12 AM

In my defense, I've wanted her gone since Season 5. She just didn't fit in the story line anymore and yet they force wrote her in. It was cool that she was a childhood friend, it made sense and it could have been put into the canon mythology. Clark wasn't a loner, who's to say he didn't go to school with a Chloe Sullivan who was the editor of his high school newspaper. But the truth is they've taken too many liberties with her character: knowing Clark's secret early on (Lana trait), being his bff (Pete trait), harboring childhood feelings (Lana trait), Journalism (Lois trait), Daily Planet Reporter (Lois trait), Editor (Perry White trait), Go-to Girl for research (Jimmy trait), Watchtower (Martian Manhunter trait), Doomsday love connection (suicide move on the writers part). All these and more are reasons why she'll never be in the comic. She's not even really an original character. Just a mix of a bunch of other characters in the mythology.

The point is, her time is up. She's got to go. Whether by moving far, far away or dying I really don't care. But she needs to leave already.

THANK YOU!

It's true...and I was about to say this...instead of Chloe they could have used every single character like their comics counterparts...instead they mix all of the good traits of the canon ones and decides to give them a bunch of crap, while idolizing their "creation"

xrayvision

06-13-2009, 02:54 AM

Go-to Girl for research (Jimmy trait)

They overdid the go-to girl thing. The real Superman never had such a go-to person. He relies on himself & his own smarts along with various sources he has. It was ridiculously blown out of proportion how much of a go-to person she was. I mean, c'mon! Her role in the first 4 seasons was great. After that, it became unbearable to watch after the lightswitch they did to her.

The thing that really sucks is that eventually they have to get rid of her anyway, whether she's killed off or leaves Metropolis or something else happens. I'm afraid they will make season 9 all about her (a character who doesn't exist in the mythos anyway) and sink the season and screw the development of the characters who are in the mythos, like they've been screwing Clark since season 5 to build up Chloe. And now with the Friday night move & extremely low ratings, I'm 95% sure that there won't be a season 10 to have one damn season without her and instead just mythos characters.

Supermania

06-13-2009, 06:21 AM

I really didn't care either way. Someone explain to me what decent storylines they could give Chloe in Season Nine, apart from a build-up to her closure then I'll give you a no-prize. That said, Chloe is a good character and I want her to die heroically in S9.

ox007

06-13-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilah View Post

In my defense, I've wanted her gone since Season 5. She just didn't fit in the story line anymore and yet they force wrote her in. It was cool that she was a childhood friend, it made sense and it could have been put into the canon mythology. Clark wasn't a loner, who's to say he didn't go to school with a Chloe Sullivan who was the editor of his high school newspaper. But the truth is they've taken too many liberties with her character: knowing Clark's secret early on (Lana trait), being his bff (Pete trait), harboring childhood feelings (Lana trait), Journalism (Lois trait), Daily Planet Reporter (Lois trait), Editor (Perry White trait), Go-to Girl for research (Jimmy trait), Watchtower (Martian Manhunter trait), Doomsday love connection (suicide move on the writers part). All these and more are reasons why she'll never be in the comic. She's not even really an original character. Just a mix of a bunch of other characters in the mythology.

The point is, her time is up. She's got to go. Whether by moving far, far away or dying I really don't care. But she needs to leave already.

End quote

What can I say, Lily you are a genius! My thoughts exactly, are you reading my mind? ;)

They overdid the go-to girl thing. The real Superman never had such a go-to person. He relies on himself & his own smarts along with various sources he has. It was ridiculously blown out of proportion how much of a go-to person she was. I mean, c'mon! Her role in the first 4 seasons was great. After that, it became unbearable to watch after the lightswitch they did to her.

The thing that really sucks is that eventually they have to get rid of her anyway, whether she's killed off or leaves Metropolis or something else happens. I'm afraid they will make season 9 all about her (a character who doesn't exist in the mythos anyway) and sink the season and screw the development of the characters who are in the mythos, like they've been screwing Clark since season 5 to build up Chloe. And now with the Friday night move & extremely low ratings, I'm 95% sure that there won't be a season 10 to have one damn season without her and instead just mythos characters.

And here again I agree 100%!!
It's amazing thanks for those posts, you saved me a lot of time :)

Storm45

06-13-2009, 09:54 AM

But she's kept alive for 25% of the show's fanbase apparently, cause her story should have been done in Commencement when Clark graduated.

25%? I didn't know there was a tally of Chloe's all around fanbase. All I see is that there is there's 41% who voted here that are glad that Chloe is still around. Against 31%.

Also, if its only due to us that Chloe is still alive like it seems to be implied, then I'm very proud of it. ;)

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 10:01 AM

Yep!!!! I do APPRECIATE she is more ALIVE than ever, when ALMOST everyone cheered up for her death ..... that leaves a wonderful taste on this Chloe fan :D;)

Lilah

06-13-2009, 11:17 AM

25%? I didn't know there was a tally of Chloe's all around fanbase. All I see is that there is there's 41% who voted here that are glad that Chloe is still around. Against 31%.

Also, if its only due to us that Chloe is still alive like it seems to be implied, then I'm very proud of it. ;)

That's only a rough number. ;)

And that 41% is only on this particular site. Go to an Erica site, or a Tom site or even a Jimmy site and the numbers will definitely change. The point is that she's there to accomodate her fans, because the way they've been writing her lately, they've clearly run out of ideas.

Storm45

06-13-2009, 11:43 AM

And that 41% is only on this particular site. Go to an Erica site, or a Tom site or even a Jimmy site and the numbers will definitely change.

I know that the 41% is only for those who voted there. Because there are AM sites that will give a higher percentage just like other sites might give a lower one.

The point is that she's there to accommodate her fans, because the way they've been writing her lately, they've clearly run out of ideas.

I can say the same for every characters. They all have been given unpopular storylines during one season or the other.
Lois storyline with Grant must have been a sign that they didn't know what to do with her and that she should have left the show.
Same for Jimmy who was only around to be Chloe's LI for 3 seasons.
Lex Luthor's story with Clexana only meant that he became unnecessary and that he was around just for his fans.

How about the complaints that Clark is stalling?

Perhaps the whole series exists just to accommodate the fans and should have ended years ago.

But of course, things are different for Chloe. She is a non-mythos character. An horrible thing to be. Something that should only lead to be exterminated along with all the non-mythos characters who dares to lay a foot on Smallville. How dare she being so important in Clark's life and get that muich screentime?

So of course when its her who gets a unpopular storyline its only a sign that she stayed around longer than she should and must leave. While others its simply a bump in a road.

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 11:53 AM

But of course things are different for Chloe. She is a non-mythos character. A horrible thing to be in the eyes of many. Something that should only lead to be exterminated.

I'm kind of getting tired of hyperbolic generalizations about those who speculated, but did not wish for Chloe to die. The non-mythos argument was used to suggest a possible reason why it would be okay in the eyes of TPTB to get rid of her, not the reason she should be killed. When it did come up in that fashion, IIRC, it was not by a large number of people. As for me, I never thought they would kill Chloe because she is a beloved character, and a useful one at that.

Where are these hordes of people who hate non-mythos characters? Lionel was non-mythos, Chloe is non-mythos, Tess and Davis are essentially non-mythos, etc. It's not like these characters are instantly loathed specifically for not being in the mythos. It is possible that some people like or dislike them for entirely different reasons and have speculated that they would or would not live for reasons that have little to do with not being in the mythos. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the very fact that fans like you and many others disagreed with this notion shows that it was not a common assertion, IMHO.

Storm45

06-13-2009, 12:02 PM

I'm kind of getting tired of hyperbolic generalizations about those who speculated, but did not wish for Chloe to die. The non-mythos argument was used to suggest a possible reason why it would be okay in the eyes of TPTB to get rid of her, not the reason she should be killed. When it did come up in that fashion, IIRC, it was not by a large number of people. As for me, I never thought they would kill Chloe because she is a beloved character, and a useful one at that.

Where are these hordes of people who hate non-mythos characters? Lionel was non-mythos, Chloe is non-mythos, Tess and Davis are essentially non-mythos, etc. It's not like these characters are instantly loathed specifically for not being in the mythos. It is possible that some people like or dislike them for entirely different reasons.

Before you posted I edited the part when I said ''in the eyes of many''. I thought myself it was exagerated.

But I won't change my mind about what's behind the whole ''non-mythos'' moniker. Chloe being non-mythos is a fact and saying it as it is okay. It may not be the reason why she's disliked by some but its an oft repeat argument in anti-Chloe posts. It also been used as an insult.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 12:05 PM

I'm kind of getting tired of hyperbolic generalizations about those who speculated, but did not wish for Chloe to die. The non-mythos argument was used to suggest a possible reason why it would be okay in the eyes of TPTB to get rid of her, not the reason she should be killed. When it did come up in that fashion, IIRC, it was not by a large number of people. As for me, I never thought they would kill Chloe because she is a beloved character, and a useful one at that.

I am also tired of the non myth, she doesn´t exist, no one remember her on the future blablabla used as arguments and reasons that she must die.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

Before you posted I edited the part when I said ''in the eyes of many''. I thought myself it was exagerated.

But I won't change my mind about what's behind the whole ''non-mythos'' moniker. Chloe being non-mythos is a fact and saying it as it is okay. It may not be the reason why she's disliked by some but its an oft repeat argument in anti-Chloe posts. It also been used as an insult.

That´s totally true ....... sometimes some even forget the show is called SV and that she has been on it for 9 years ... and just say ..... she is not part of the future .. and she is not on the comics and on and on ...... so she can´t leave SV on her feet .... but 9 feet under.... :(:rolleyes: believe I have seen comments like that ......:(:(

Lilah

06-13-2009, 12:19 PM

Before you posted I edited the part when I said ''in the eyes of many''. I thought myself it was exagerated.

But I won't change my mind about what's behind the whole ''non-mythos'' moniker. Chloe being non-mythos is a fact and saying it as it is okay. It may not be the reason why she's disliked by some but its an oft repeat argument in anti-Chloe posts. It also been used as an insult.

In my opinion, I do believe that the fact Chloe is not a mythos character is the reason they will use to get rid of her. OTOH, I do feel she has played an important role to Clark's life over the years on SMALLVILLE. But the thing is, her character development has gone as far as it could go without making a mockery of the story of Superman. In season 8, things just got really bad in her case of writing. Alot of things could be forgiven. Like Clark's stalling, because its being done to extend the show. So I'll forgive it for now. Lois with Grant lasted what 2 episodes (okay maybe 3 or 4) but still it didn't hurt anyone else's character. Just Lois' so I chalked that up to it being her perogative. Clexana was used to drive a wedge betweeen Lex and Clark. I don't like it, and felt it unoriginal. But it was obvious since season 4 that was the route they were heading. So0o0o, I'll forgive it because it wasn't as light switched as some people might think. But what Chloe did in the latter half of season 8, is totally over stepping her boundaries. She hooked up with Doomsday (very annoying in a soapish kinda way), she made Clark look like a bafoon who couldn't make a damn decision on his own, she ran off with Bloomsday and got Jimmy killed at the end.

While every other "bump" as you called it furthered the plot of the show, or didn't essentially hurt the plot... Chloe's major "bump" did... and I think that's why so many people wanted or want her gone. It's nothing personal. I just don't want to watch Chloe-ville eventually, and before that happens I want her gone.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 12:22 PM

That's only a rough number. ;)
they've clearly run out of ideas.

That´s definitely true .... since S5 they have been recycling storylines and characters.... I always suspected SV was going GREEN ..... but I got my confirmation due the whole Zod, SuperPower, yes I want to be Super .... No I don´t want to be Super Clark dilemma and on .....

quinny06

06-13-2009, 12:29 PM

She has definitely had the worst year of any character in the history of this show, and what does she end up with after all her sacrifices? Jimmy is dead, Davis is dead, Lois is missing, and Clark walked away from her.

What a charmed life.

Sweet apartment, though.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 12:32 PM

Yeah, I am sure that makes her millionaire right? !!!!

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 12:39 PM

The point is that she's there to accomodate her fans, because the way they've been writing her lately, they've clearly run out of ideas.

Um, no she's not. They very cleary don't think they've run out of ideas for her. That is your opinion. Thay ran out of idea's for Jimmy. It's why he's dead, IMO. And a canon character, shock, horror and all that jazz.

Certain fans not wanting her around and citing their opinion on it does not make it fact.

She's not even really an original character. Just a mix of a bunch of other characters in the mythology.

She IS an original character.

I don't want a Clark & Chloe show...

Well I do :rolleyes:

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but the very fact that fans like you and many others disagreed with this notion shows that it was not a common assertion, IMHO.

It certainly felt very common at the time. It still does. To me.

I'm 95% sure that there won't be a season 10 to have one damn season without her and instead just mythos characters.

I'm sure that most people knew Smallville was going to be just a tad different from the beloved mythos when they began to watch it. And wonders of wonders if a new character was introduced into the comics they would instantly be mythos and there would be no uproar. But on Smallville? Oh God, no. She's got to be moved out of the way :rolleyes:

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 12:59 PM

Um, no she's not. They very cleary don't think they've run out of ideas for her. That is your opinion. Thay ran out of idea's for Jimmy. It's why he's dead, IMO. And a canon character, shock, horror and all that jazz.

Chloe always had her own storylines ....since S1 Pilot.... and yes I agree they were out of ideas for not iconic as you´d think Jimmy, drug addicted anyone???

Certain fans not wanting her around and citing their opinion on it does not make it fact.

I think I will give some reason as for why I THINK some doesn´t enjoy Chloe.

SV´s First Inteprid Reporter= check
First to get a job at the DP= check
CK first kiss/bestfriend/heroine/confident/investigative partner= check
mindblowing relation with IconicLex=check
help send a billionaire to jail=check
Leading lady=check
The only one that still is on SV from the the lovely original cast= check
Because she didn´t die = check

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time :p :lol:

She IS an original character.

If she wasn´t DC wouldn´t had bought the character´s right ...

Well I do :rolleyes:

So do I, need to see watch that wonderful chemistry spark flying out my TV as much as possible.

It certainly felt very common at the time. It still does. To me.

ITA.

I'm sure that most people knew Smallville was going to be just a tad different from the beloved mythos when they began to watch it. And wonders of wonders if a new character was introduced into the comics they would instantly be mythos and there would be no uproar. But on Smallville? Oh God, no. She's got to be moved out of the way :rolleyes:

How iconic right?? ;) I mean I mean IRONIC ...

quinny06

06-13-2009, 01:44 PM

The only one that still is on SV from the the lovely original cast= check

Um... Clark?

And I'm not a shipper, nor do I favour one character over others. So the reason I dislike Chloe is because she's just an annoying shell of the character she used to be. Then again, that could be said about every other character on this show.

LJ-90

06-13-2009, 01:45 PM

I think I will give some reason as for why I THINK some doesn´t enjoy Chloe.

SV´s First Inteprid Reporter= check
First to get a job at the DP= check
CK first kiss/bestfriend/heroine/confident/investigative partner= check
mindblowing relation with IconicLex=check
help send a billionaire to jail=check
Leading lady=check
The only one that still is on SV from the the lovely original cast= check
Because she didn´t die = check

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time :p :lol:

Actually, I don't enjoy Chloe because I hate the path her character has chosen since the begining of season 8.

If all of your "reason why some don't ebjoy her" people would have been complaining about her since...well, season 5 (I think that all of your examples are from season 1 to 5) while me and some other fans just don't like her since this season, and not because the things above, I personally don't like her because:

1) She is way in over her head and refuses to accept it.
2)Tries to say to Clark how to be a hero and how to life his life:

Chloe: You need to quit the Daily Planet and put The Red-Blue Blur back into the closet (Turbulence)

3)Refused to accept Davis being dangerous.
4)Being OK with Lois taking care full time of Jimmy while he's in the hospital, but for some reason she's only seeing him part time. Not good wife material in my opinion.
5)Refusing to talk with Clark about searching for a solution for the Brainiac stuff.
6)Telling Jimmy that all she did was for Clark, and that she has always loved him...seconds later she tells Davis "I though I did (love Davis)
7) Talking about herself when Clark was obviusly dissapointed in humanity, and asking him why he wasn't there for her...even when the guy has just come out of a battle to the death and his blaming himself for the death of Jimbo.
8) This is more a bout the producers...they kill Jimmy because they want to bring the show closer to the mythos, but somehow Chloe is still alive.

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 01:54 PM

Um... Clark?

And I'm not a shipper, nor do I favour one character over others. So the reason I dislike Chloe is because she's just an annoying shell of the character she used to be. Then again, that could be said about every other character on this show.

Besides Clark of course .... as for the rest ... good for you ...

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Actually, I don't enjoy Chloe because I hate the path her character has chosen since the begining of season 8.

If all of your "reason why some don't ebjoy her" people would have been complaining about her since...well, season 5 (I think that all of your examples are from season 1 to 5) while me and some other fans just don't like her since this season, and not because the things above, I personally don't like her because:

1) She is way in over her head and refuses to accept it.
2)Tries to say to Clark how to be a hero and how to life his life:

Chloe: You need to quit the Daily Planet and put The Red-Blue Blur back into the closet (Turbulence)

3)Refused to accept Davis being dangerous.
4)Being OK with Lois taking care full time of Jimmy while he's in the hospital, but for some reason she's only seeing him part time. Not good wife material in my opinion.
5)Refusing to talk with Clark about searching for a solution for the Brainiac stuff.
6)Telling Jimmy that all she did was for Clark, and that she has always loved him...seconds later she tells Davis "I though I did (love Davis)
7) Talking about herself when Clark was obviusly dissapointed in humanity, and asking him why he wasn't there for her...even when the guy has just come out of a battle to the death and his blaming himself for the death of Jimbo.
8) This is more a bout the producers...they kill Jimmy because they want to bring the show closer to the mythos, but somehow Chloe is still alive.

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time

Chloe saidthat she knew she was wrong and that she was trying to fix it .... Beast anyone ?? I respect your opinion ... I just don´t share it .. agree to disagree .

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 02:08 PM

Actually, I don't enjoy Chloe because I hate the path her character has chosen since the begining of season 8.

If all of your "reason why some don't ebjoy her" people would have been complaining about her since...well, season 5 (I think that all of your examples are from season 1 to 5) while me and some other fans just don't like her since this season, and not because the things above, I personally don't like her because:

1) She is way in over her head and refuses to accept it.
2)Tries to say to Clark how to be a hero and how to life his life:

Chloe: You need to quit the Daily Planet and put The Red-Blue Blur back into the closet (Turbulence)

3)Refused to accept Davis being dangerous.
4)Being OK with Lois taking care full time of Jimmy while he's in the hospital, but for some reason she's only seeing him part time. Not good wife material in my opinion.
5)Refusing to talk with Clark about searching for a solution for the Brainiac stuff.
6)Telling Jimmy that all she did was for Clark, and that she has always loved him...seconds later she tells Davis "I though I did (love Davis)
7) Talking about herself when Clark was obviusly dissapointed in humanity, and asking him why he wasn't there for her...even when the guy has just come out of a battle to the death and his blaming himself for the death of Jimbo.
8) This is more a bout the producers...they kill Jimmy because they want to bring the show closer to the mythos, but somehow Chloe is still alive.

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time

ITA. I don't hate Chloe (that's too strong a word for what I feel actually) because of the things RedKRules (apologies for the mix up) listed. It's interesting that it's assumed that's why she is disliked. Anyway, I have problems with how her character has been used this year. I even dislike her because she doesn't seem to be as feisty, cheerful, and independent as she used to be. It's really made her less enjoyable to watch.

It's been a combination of her own choices and the actions of others that have brought her to the place she is at now. Her behavior this year is what has turned me off of her character, not her past history as a reporter or her relationship with Clark. I don't like Chloe's personality anymore. Did that mean I wanted her dead? No. Am I glad she survived? I'm indifferent. I'm more waiting to see the Chloe I once loved again.

quinny06

06-13-2009, 02:09 PM

Besides Clark of course ....

Are you kidding? Go back and watch Season 1 Clark. A young, optimistic, just trying to fit in teenager. Now? Selfish, Self-pitying, and more immature than he was 8 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, Season 8 (the first few episodes in particular) made progress, and showed that the character can still be saved. But he's still pathetic compared to what he was in the early seasons.

Sadly, again, you could say that about the entire show.

And before anyone asks "So why do you still watch?". My answer is loyalty. Blind, stupid, loyalty.

And I like anything to do with Superman.

And Erica and Allison are hot.

But other that that, its just the loyalty thing.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 02:13 PM

Are you kidding? Go back and watch Season 1 Clark. Young, optimistic, just trying to fit in teenager. Now? Selfish, Self-pitying, and more immature than he was 8 years ago.

Don't get me wrong, Season 8 (the first few episodes in particular) made progress, and showed that the character can still be saved. But he's still pathetic compared to what he was in the early seasons.

Sadly, again, you could say that about the entire show.

And before anyone asks "So why do you still watch?". My answer is loyalty. Blind, stupid, loyalty.

And I like anything to do with Superman.

And Erica and Allison are hot.

But other that that, its just the loyalty thing.

Why would I be kidding? .... I was just saying besides Clark because I forgot to mention him ..... let me explain it better.

Chloe is the only one that is still on the show from the Original cast besides Clark, Lana, Pete, Lionel, Lex, Mr. and Mrs Kent ..... that´s all I said .... I didn´t say anything about Clark´s character at all.

So :confused: :confused:

quinny06

06-13-2009, 02:15 PM

Why would I be kidding? .... I was just saying besides Clark because I forgot to mention him ..... let me explain it better.

Chloe is the only one that is still on the show from the Original cast besides Clark, Lana, Pete, Lionel, Lex, Mr. and Mrs Kent ..... that´s all I said .... I didn´t say anything about Clark´s character at all.

Ah, I see. I thought you were saying that all the characters are worse than they originally were, except Clark.

Hmm. I wish I hadn't written such a long reply now. Seems kind of silly. :\

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 02:17 PM

Ah, I see. I thought you were saying that all the characters are worse than they originally were, except Clark.

Hmm. I wish I hadn't written such a long reply now. Seems kind of silly. :\

It´s ok ;) misunderstandings always happen around here :);)

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 02:34 PM

It certainly felt very common at the time. It still does. To me.

I wasn't speaking of feelings. If someone wants to say that A LOT of people wanted Chloe to die because she's not in the mythos, that's a quantitative statement. If it can't be substantiated, then it shouldn't be stated like that. Saying that it felt like a lot of people were saying that or that it seemed common, as you do in your comment is more accurate, in my view. I wish I saw more comments like it.

That being said, Storm45 edited the post I was responding to while I responding to it. That was very considerate.

It I'm sure that most people knew Smallville was going to be just a tad different from the beloved mythos when they began to watch it. And wonders of wonders if a new character was introduced into the comics they would instantly be mythos and there would be no uproar. But on Smallville? Oh God, no. She's got to be moved out of the way :rolleyes:

Could you speak of the mythos with any more disdain? I get it you don't like it or at least don't like how others rely on it, but sarcastically referring to it as "the beloved mythos" seems a bit harsh. Also, instead of assuming that people want Chloe to die only because she's not in the comics, perhaps people simply see it as more likely if it's TPTB intention to line up with the mythos--specifically Donner's Superman I, which AlMiles have said is their preferred endpoint. It's not necessarily that people want her to be moved out of the way, just that it's a possibility given her non-mythos status. Yes, some actually have said that they want Chloe gone and used the mythos as part of their reasoning, but sometimes there were other reasons in addition to that one and not a huge majority held that belief, imo.

quinny06

06-13-2009, 02:34 PM

It´s ok ;) misunderstandings always happen around here :);)

I'll make up for it by mentioning that I like your Avi. I prefer Allison's hair short like that, much prettier.

And yes, the person who typed that sentence was male. Not that there's anything wrong with being otherwise.

But getting back on topic, I voted: "Ehhh...Didn't really care either way." Sadly, I could say that about the entire show.

I'm going to stop saying that now, its starting to annoy/depress me.

Lilah

06-13-2009, 04:00 PM

Um, no she's not. They very cleary don't think they've run out of ideas for her. That is your opinion. Thay ran out of idea's for Jimmy. It's why he's dead, IMO. And a canon character, shock, horror and all that jazz.

Certain fans not wanting her around and citing their opinion on it does not make it fact.

She IS an original character.

1. Give me one original idea they've had for anyone on the show since season 6.

*They are recycling. That usually means they've run out of ideas.

2. They didn't run out of ideas for Jimmy.

*In fact they could have brought him back to the Daily Planet easily. Tess Mercer could have rehired him, since he did bring in the biggest scoop of the year: Davis Bloom is the serial killer. The audience knew, but the characters didn't. He was the first to figure it out. And he even took the first picture of the RBB. They let him go to "line up with the mythos". And yet, Chloe Sullivan is still around. That tells me its because of her fanbase. But you are right, it is my opinion. One I know I share with a lot of other people who watch the show for other reasons beside Miss Sullivan.

3. Give me one good trait that makes her even remotely original. Except her name.

*One characteristic Chloe has, that ONLY Chloe has. Not one she shares with another character from the mythology.

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----

Chloe always had her own storylines ....since S1 Pilot.... and yes I agree they were out of ideas for not iconic as you´d think Jimmy, drug addicted anyone???

Chloe had her own storylines up until she found out Clark's secret. Then it all went downhill for her.

I think I will give some reason as for why I THINK some doesn´t enjoy Chloe.

SV´s First Inteprid Reporter= check
First to get a job at the DP= check
CK first kiss/bestfriend/heroine/confident/investigative partner= check
mindblowing relation with IconicLex=check
help send a billionaire to jail=check
Leading lady=check
The only one that still is on SV from the the lovely original cast= check
Because she didn´t die = check

I could go on but you know that would take a lot of time :p :lol:

If that were the case, those who hate her, would have been hating her from the pilot. I know I can speak for a lot of people, including myself, when I say hatred for her character started fairly recently.

If she wasn´t DC wouldn´t had bought the character´s right ...

That's not hard to believe since she is a part of a Superman media (Smallville). But yet, they dropped the idea of putting her in the comics, didn't they? I wonder why.... Could it be because they already had an iconic DP reporter (Lois), a bestfriend for Clark (Pete), someone to forever pine for him (Lana), an editor (Perry) and a researcher for Lois and Clark (Jimmy).... Maybe...

So do I, need to see watch that wonderful chemistry spark flying out my TV as much as possible.

That depends on your definition of chemistry. I happen to think Lana and Clark had alot of chemistry in the beginning. But that quickly turned to tension after the 5th season. And I always thought Lois and Clark had chemistry from that first moment she wore his shirt and got caught in a co-ed situation with him.

But Tom has chemistry with just about every actor on that show... Its one of the perks of being so easy to work with.

How iconic right?? ;) I mean I mean IRONIC ...

It's actually not ironic. It's quite believable. We all knew they'd take their own liberties and tell the story a bit differently. It was expected. It was actually one of the reasons I was hesitant to watch Smallville in the first place. But my father started watching it and got me hooked on it. And I love it. But I love the story of Superman more, and when they started crapping on the character of Superman/Clark for a character they "claim to have created" then I got annoyed. A lot of people did actually....

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 04:18 PM

1. Give me one original idea they've had for anyone on the show since season 6.

*They are recycling. That usually means they've run out of ideas.

I said THEY don't think they've run out of ideas for her. If they did, they'd write her out as they have done to other characters including Jimmy because that whole thing about the mythos is crap. An excuse and I don't believe it for one microsecond.

2. They didn't run out of ideas for Jimmy.

*In fact they could have brought him back to the Daily Planet easily. Tess Mercer could have rehired him, since he did bring in the biggest scoop of the year: Davis Bloom is the serial killer. The audience knew, but the characters didn't. He was the first to figure it out. And he even took the first picture of the RBB. They let him go to "line up with the mythos". And yet, Chloe Sullivan is still around. That tells me its because of her fanbase. But you are right, it is my opinion. One I know I share with a lot of other people who watch the show for other reasons beside Miss Sullivan.

And let's not think of ourselves as more important then we are. If they cared about what fans on messageboards thought, we wouldn't have had Clana for eight years. She's there because they want her there not because of the super-duper power of the Chloe fans although I guess it helps that she has fans.

The bit I've bolded. So what? It doesn't make you right or me wrong or vice versa *shrugs*

Give me one good trait that makes her even remotely original. Except her name.

*One characteristic Chloe has, that ONLY Chloe has. Not one she shares with another character from the mythology.

Can I ask what you are trying to prove here? Because it doesn't make sense :rolleyes: It's everything she has and the way it's put together as a whole that makes her original. She's the best friend in a way Pete never was. She loves Clark like Lana never did. She took a path to journalism that Lois never did. She's had encounters with Lex that no one ever did. She had encounters with Lionel that nobody ever has. She's not Pete. She's not Lana. As much as people would like to pretend. She's not a disjointed jigsaw as some people paint simply because she's an orginal charcater and therefore must be discredited. She's her own character with her own unique brand and her own relationship with Clark Kent. A relationship that is unique.

She's snarky like Lois isn't. She's vulnerable like Lana isn't. They might be those things too as might millions of other people in the world but not like she is.The same way I have a sense of humour that is my own despite other people having a fuuny bone too. The same way I have a career that my friend might share but the way I approach it is different and that's what makes it my own.

Sports72Xtrm

06-13-2009, 04:31 PM

I think that the Chloe character evolved over the years to fulfill the roles that they couldn't have a known mythos character fulfill because they couldn't use them before. Like they used her to be a plot device to be this well of information that Clark goes to because he wasn't a reporter then and they didn't have Lois Lane. So they made up Chloe Sullivan. But as more characters arrived to fullfill those roles, Chloe had to constantly adapt in order to remain relevant. So she goes from quasi-reporter/love interest to quasi-Oracle/sideckick to Pa Kent guidance giver/bestfriend (even though her advice is horrible:lol:). Really Chloe is all over the place. She's whatever the show needs her to be.

Lilah

06-13-2009, 04:51 PM

I said THEY don't think they've run out of ideas for her. If they did, they'd write her out as they have done to other characters including Jimmy because that whole thing about the mythos is crap. An excuse and I don't believe it for one microsecond.

THEY'D never admit to running out of ideas. The day they do, will be the day of the series finale. And you might think their reason for writing off Jimmy is crap, but its their reason. So no matter what you or I believe, its what's written in stone as the reason for Aaron Ashmore's Jimmy Olsen not being there next year.

And let's not think of ourselves as more important then we are. If they cared about what fans on messageboards thought, we wouldn't have had Clana for eight years. She's there because they want her there not because of the super-duper power of the Chloe fans although I guess it helps that she has fans.

The bit I've bolded. So what? It doesn't make you right or me wrong or vice versa *shrugs*

Clana actually has/had a pretty big fanbase. Two of its biggest fans were Al and Miles. AKA the creators of Smallville. They had alot to do with why it lasted so damn long.

Can I ask what you are trying to prove here? Because it doesn't make sense :rolleyes: It's everything she has and the way it's put together as a whole that makes her original. She's the best friend in a way Pete never was. She loves Clark like Lana never did. She took a path to journalism that Lois never did. She's had encounters with Lex that no one ever did. She had encounters with Lionel that nobody ever has. She's not Pete. She's not Lana. As much as people would like to pretend. She's not a disjointed jigsaw as some people paint simply because she's an orginal charcater and therefore must be discredited. She's her own character with her own unique brand and her own relationship with Clark Kent. A relationship that is unique.

She's snarky like Lois isn't. She's vulnerable like Lana isn't. They might be those things too as might millions of other people in the world but not like she is.The same way I have a sense of humour that is my own despite other people having a fuuny bone too. The same way I have a career that my friend might share but the way I approach it is different and that's what makes it my own.

I wasn't trying to prove anything. You just did. And that's that Chloe really isn't an "original" character at all. But that she's merely a plot device used to forward the storylines. Because when Lana finally noticed Clark romantically, Chloe's feelings took a backseat. Chloe didn't become a "bestfriend" for Clark, until Pete left. When the restrictions for Lois Lane's character were finally lifted, Chloe was taken out of the Daily Planet to make room for Clark. When Mr. Kent died, she became Clark's confidant. Not a very good one in my opinion. There will never be anyone like Pa Kent giving Clark advice. And the list goes on and on.

Oh and sorry, Lois is SNARKY and Lana is VULNERABLE. That's who their characters have been for 70+ years.

By the way... you didn't give me one original trait....

----- Added 38 Seconds later -----

I think that the Chloe character evolved over the years to fulfill the roles that they couldn't have a known mythos character fulfill because they couldn't use them before. Like they used her to be a plot device to be this well of information that Clark goes to because he wasn't a reporter then and they didn't have Lois Lane. So they made up Chloe Sullivan. But as more characters arrived to fullfill those roles, Chloe had to constantly adapt in order to remain relevant. So she goes from quasi-reporter/love interest to quasi-Oracle/sideckick to Pa Kent guidance giver/bestfriend (even though her advice is horrible:lol:). Really Chloe is all over the place. She's whatever the show needs her to be.

Exactly. And when they have no more use for her, she'll bite the dust too.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 04:59 PM

I said THEY don't think they've run out of ideas for her. If they did, they'd write her out as they have done to other characters including Jimmy because that whole thing about the mythos is crap. An excuse and I don't believe it for one microsecond.

And the thing is that they are so FULL of ideas is that they are recycling storylines and characters from the past ..... and they are so good at it .... Failsday had the worst rating for a finale in SV´s history.... ohhh yes they trashed Davis´s character along with it ... so they could get rid of the non Iconic James Henry.

And let's not think of ourselves as more important then we are. If they cared about what fans on messageboards thought, we wouldn't have had Clana for eight years. She's there because they want her there not because of the super-duper power of the Chloe fans although I guess it helps that she has fans.

The bit I've bolded. So what? It doesn't make you right or me wrong or vice versa *shrugs*

I have accepted the fact that they don´t give a CRAP about what fans say or think ...... they will do what they have to .... Shelbyyyy save this show!!!!!!!!

Can I ask what you are trying to prove here? Because it doesn't make sense :rolleyes: It's everything she has and the way it's put together as a whole that makes her original. She's the best friend in a way Pete never was. She loves Clark like Lana never did. She took a path to journalism that Lois never did. She's had encounters with Lex that no one ever did. She had encounters with Lionel that nobody ever has. She's not Pete. She's not Lana. As much as people would like to pretend. She's not a disjointed jigsaw as some people paint simply because she's an orginal charcater and therefore must be discredited. She's her own character with her own unique brand and her own relationship with Clark Kent. A relationship that is unique.

She's snarky like Lois isn't. She's vulnerable like Lana isn't. They might be those things too as might millions of other people in the world but not like she is.The same way I have a sense of humour that is my own despite other people having a fuuny bone too. The same way I have a career that my friend might share but the way I approach it is different and that's what makes it my own.

Exatcly, .... she doesn´t pretend to be something or someone she is not .... I didn´t know Lana/Lois/Lex or anyonelse had those amazing hacker skills on the comics though ....

Chloe is smart, snarky, independent, strong, caring, friendly, she treats people nicely, always fighting for what she wants, heroine ..... waittttt she sound like someone I know ..... dangg let me think .... yes she sounds just like Chloe Sullivan. :)

Her unique relationship with Clark Kent is something I know for sure Clark will never share with anyonelse, :D

point0fn0return

06-13-2009, 05:03 PM

Exactly. And when they have no more use for her, she'll bite the dust too.

I don't get one thing...Why does she have to die? Why can't she just leave. I mean she's not mythos based right meaning her future is not determined, so I'd like to think with the possibility of her dying comes the possibility that she can just leave the show going off as Watchtower or something. That's just my 2 cents at least...:)

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 05:05 PM

I wasn't trying to prove anything. You just did. And that's that Chloe really isn't an "original" character at all. But that she's merely a plot device used to forward the storylines. Because when Lana finally noticed Clark romantically, Chloe's feelings took a backseat. Chloe didn't become a "bestfriend" for Clark, until Pete left. When the restrictions for Lois Lane's character were finally lifted, Chloe was taken out of the Daily Planet to make room for Clark. When Mr. Kent died, she became Clark's confidant. Not a very good one in my opinion. There will never be anyone like Pa Kent giving Clark advice. And the list goes on and on.

Oh and sorry, Lois is SNARKY and Lana is VULNERABLE. That's who their characters have been for 70+ years.

By the way... you didn't give me one original trait....

----- Added 38 Seconds later -----

Exactly. And when they have no more use for her, she'll bite the dust too.

She's original. Like it or not. She is. Throwing the mythos card at my posts which you will do regardless of what I say doesn't matter a bit to me. You'll just igmore the point I'm making so there really is no point in making it, is there? I don't think my words are going to compete with 70+ years :\:rolleyes:

.
Oh and sorry, Lois is SNARKY and Lana is VULNERABLE. That's who their characters have been for 70+ years

Don't be sorry. I don't care if their characters have been that way two or three hundred years. They haven't like Chloe.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 05:07 PM

I don't get one thing...Why does she have to die? Why can't she just leave. I mean she's not mythos based right meaning her future is not determined, so I'd like to think with the possibility of her dying comes the possibility that she can just leave the show going off as Watchtower or something. That's just my 2 cents at least...:)

She may leave, but she won´t die that´s something I know for sure :)

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

She's original. Like it or not. She is. Throwing the mythos card at my posts which you will do regardless of what I say doesn't matter a bit to me. You'll just igmore the point I'm making so there really is no point in making it, is there? I don't think my words are going to compete with 70+ years :\:rolleyes:

ITA!

You forgot one thing Dusti, they can´t get old ..... :lol: anyway the mythos can´t be counted on this discussion cause you know Chloe is Smallville´s ORIGINAL Character :D That´s what matter for me at this moment.
.

Don't be sorry. I don't care if their characters have been that way two or three hundred years. They haven't like Chloe.

:D

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 05:11 PM

Exatcly, .... she doesn´t pretend to be something or someone she is not .... I didn´t know Lana/Lois/Lex or anyonelse had those amazing hacker skills on the comics though ....

Chloe is smart, snarky, independent, strong, caring, friendly, she treats people nicely, always fighting for what she wants, heroine ..... waittttt she sound like someone I know ..... dangg let me think .... yes she sounds just like Chloe Sullivan. :)

Her unique relationship with Clark Kent is something I know for sure Clark will never share with anyonelse, :D

And incredibly intelligent. That's been established on the show numerous times. Her pattern of speech, her way of throwing in references to pop culture, her sarcasm, her being quick-witted, holding her own with Lex Luthor when she was teenager in HS (the infamous verbal judo as Lex called it), getting one over Lionel Luthor and putting him behind bars. Her fascination with all things strange and weird. Her style of reporting. Her quirky dress sense. Her addiction to coffee, etc, etc, etc.

You forgot one thing Dusti, they can´t get old ..... anyway the mythos can´t be counted on this discussion cause you know Chloe is Smallville´s ORIGINAL Character That´s what matter for her fans.

Hell Yes!!!

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 05:17 PM

And incredibly intelligent. That's been established on the show numerous times. Her pattern of speech, her way of throwing in references to pop culture, her sarcasm, her being quick-witted, holding her own with Lex Luthor when she was teenager in HS (the infamous verbal judo as Lex called it), getting one over Lionel Luthor and putting him behind bars. Her fascination with all things strange and weird. Her style of reporting. Her quirky dress sense. Her addiction to coffee, etc, etc, etc.

Ohh no ONE on the comics has EVER faced Jor El like she did :D:D .... nop! There is no one like Ms. Sullivan :D ... except that her mom was Wonder Woman on the past :p:p :cool:;)

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 05:29 PM

She's snarky like Lois isn't.

Um, no. No one does snark like Lois Lane, IMO.

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 05:30 PM

Ohh no ONE on the comics has EVER faced Jor El like she did :D:D .... nop! There is no one like Ms. Sullivan :D ... except that her mom was Wonder Woman on the past :p:p :cool:;)

:lol:

Ah yes, how could I forget her plea to Jor-El. Not only did she have the guts to make it but it was accepted. Dang!!

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Um, no. No one does snark like Lois Lane, IMO.

My point was that she is snarky in a different way to Lois but Chloe is snarky. AM recognized it as a defining characteristic of the character. It's what won her the audition for the character.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 05:33 PM

:lol:

Ah yes, how could I forget her plea to Jor-El. Not only did she have the guts to make it but it was accepted. Dang!!

So much for a non original character right???? :p :lol: ...

I loved that whole scene ... Kara´s face was priceless ..... I L.O.V.E.D it!

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 05:34 PM

So much for a non original character right???? :p :lol: ...

I loved that whole scene ... Kara´s face was priceless ..... I L.O.V.E.D it!

And you've changed your icon. You're a fast worker Ms Kelly :p I loved it too. So. Much.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 05:35 PM

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 05:35 PM

My point was that she is snarky in a different way to Lois but Chloe is snarky. AM recognized it as a defining characteristic of the character. It's what won her the audition for the character.

Well, you didn't make that clear. IMO, Chloe used to be snarky, now she just cries. That snarky Chloe has been long gone, but I would like to see her again.

----- Added 36 Seconds later -----

I love Chloe´s snarky comments, because they weren´t the mocking kind of way ..... but smart and funny.

Oh, she had her fair share of mocking comments in the early years.

RedKRules

06-13-2009, 05:36 PM

And you've changed your icon. You're a fast worker Ms Kelly :p I loved it too. So. Much.

:p I had to ... as soon as I remembered about Traveler .... such a great episode :D

Chloe to Jor El: I love your son.

JorEl: Hey I think I like you, and so does my son .... so I will give what you want, and nop I won´t take your life as balance or anything like that. :lol:

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Well, you didn't make that clear. IMO, Chloe used to be snarky, now she just cries. That snarky Chloe has been long gone, but I would like to see her again.

I don´t think it is completely gone, the show has became too angst and dramatic for that.... and yes I agree with you..... I want to see that MORE and MORE!

Oh, she had her fair share of mocking comments in the early years.

Ohh yes I remember some, but most of the time ... it only funny,smart and charismatic. :D;)

Dustmite

06-13-2009, 05:39 PM

Well, you didn't make that clear. IMO, Chloe used to be snarky, now she just cries. That snarky Chloe has been long gone, but I would like to see her again.

I thought I made it clear when I used examples:

She's snarky like Lois isn't. She's vulnerable like Lana isn't. They might be those things too as might millions of other people in the world but not like she is. The same way I have a sense of humour that is my own despite other people having a fuuny bone too. The same way I have a career that my friend might share but the way I approach it is different and that's what makes it my own.

And she's still snarky IMO. I wouldn't be laughing too much if I was Chloe either right now.

ginevrakent

06-13-2009, 05:48 PM

And she's still snarky IMO. I wouldn't be laughing too much if I was Chloe either right now.

I get you now. Chloe's snark is unique. I guess my point was that I think it's non-existent now, even though I understand why she may not be.

bluewolv1970

06-13-2009, 05:57 PM

And incredibly intelligent. That's been established on the show numerous times. Her pattern of speech, her way of throwing in references to pop culture, her sarcasm, her being quick-witted, holding her own with Lex Luthor when she was teenager in HS (the infamous verbal judo as Lex called it), getting one over Lionel Luthor and putting him behind bars. Her fascination with all things strange and weird. Her style of reporting. Her quirky dress sense. Her addiction to coffee, etc, etc, etc.

Hell Yes!!!

well you know that is a perfect description of her and you know I would like to add that really all that matters on smallville is what happens on smallville not all these other media sources smallville is its own world and in that world chloe is all that you describe, the female that clark trust the most, is the female character with the most episodes fortunately and AM is the leading lady on the show as she rightly should be

Storm45

06-13-2009, 09:19 PM

That being said, Storm45 edited the post I was responding to while I responding to it. That was very considerate.

:)

They didn't run out of ideas for Jimmy.
*In fact they could have brought him back to the Daily Planet easily. Tess Mercer could have rehired him, since he did bring in the biggest scoop of the year: Davis Bloom is the serial killer. The audience knew, but the characters didn't. He was the first to figure it out. And he even took the first picture of the RBB.

I can pull out many ideas for Chloe. Like you for Jimmy or like any characters who are now gone from this show.

Exatcly, .... she doesn´t pretend to be something or someone she is not .... I didn´t know Lana/Lois/Lex or anyonelse had those amazing hacker skills on the comics though ....

Barbara Gordon. Batgirl turned Oracle. Suddenly she deservse respect since Chloe dared to steal her hacking thunder. I'm sure DC Comics will never be the same for what happened to the ancient female rip-off of Batman.

3. Give me one good trait that makes her even remotely original. Except her name.

*One characteristic Chloe has, that ONLY Chloe has. Not one she shares with another character from the mythology.

Gabe Sullivan, a good man. He raised Chloe alone since she was little. He's missing now. Is it because a mythos character claimed him as their dad?

If so, there's Moira Sullivan. Anyone in the mythos had a meteor-freak mother who has been taken away? If not there's her connection to Lionel Luthor, anyone had a kicka** storyline with Lex Luthor's father in the mythos?

Or maybe its simply Allison Mack. Pretty good actress who is the only interpretation ever of Chloe Sullivan. No drawing in the comic books can match that.

I don't care if she shares characteristic with major or d-listed comic book characters. Smallville in itself, with all the characters and event that's been going on, is based on comic books and even movies.

Chlark, Chlavis, Chlex, Chlionel, her arc as a reporter, a meteor freak and Watchtower are done and shown in a way it was never captured in in the comics. Some won't like it but Chloe's traits, relationships and stories captured many fans because of what they see onscreen.

Oh and sorry, Lois is SNARKY and Lana is VULNERABLE. That's who their characters have been for 70+ years.

Then you can add that as Chloe's original traits: She's been snarky, vulnerable and all that jazz since... 2001.

Oh and Lana was not around for 70 plus years. She appeared in 1950. I hope if doesn't make her less vulnerable than if she was for 70 years.

Joe Kahn

06-13-2009, 09:45 PM

Originally Posted by AgentChaos http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4847769#post4847769)
She has definitely had the worst year of any character in the history of this show, and what does she end up with after all her sacrifices? Jimmy is dead, Davis is dead, Lois is missing, and Clark walked away from her.

Had Chloe not taken her bizarre actions -- such as preventing Clark from sending Davis to the PZ -- Jimmy would be alive. Davis also would not be dead.

Rokk would not have given Clark the ring, so Lois would not be missing. Clark probably would not have walked away from her, because the events that so turned him off would not have taken place.

In other words, she brought all those things you mentioned on herself.

Lilah

06-13-2009, 10:39 PM

And the thing is that they are so FULL of ideas is that they are recycling storylines and characters from the past ..... and they are so good at it .... Failsday had the worst rating for a finale in SV´s history.... ohhh yes they trashed Davis´s character along with it ... so they could get rid of the non Iconic James Henry.

They have no ideas for anyone lol. That's why they're bringing in a new character....

I have accepted the fact that they don´t give a CRAP about what fans say or think ...... they will do what they have to .... Shelbyyyy save this show!!!!!!!!

They may not give a crap, but they don't wanna piss off fans too much. Considering this is a fan run show. Its steady fanbase being the only thing keeping it on the air.

Exatcly, .... she doesn´t pretend to be something or someone she is not .... I didn´t know Lana/Lois/Lex or anyonelse had those amazing hacker skills on the comics though ....

Jimmy has amazing hacker skills in the comics and other Superman medias as well. :D

Chloe is smart, snarky, independent, strong, caring, friendly, she treats people nicely, always fighting for what she wants, heroine ..... waittttt she sound like someone I know ..... dangg let me think .... yes she sounds just like Chloe Sullivan. :)

You actually just described Lois Lane and Lana Lang from the comics.

Lois= snarky, independent, strong, caring, always fighting for what she wants, heroine

Lana= independent, caring, friendly, treats people nicely

Her unique relationship with Clark Kent is something I know for sure Clark will never share with anyonelse, :D

Oh you mean the relationship that was flushed down the toilet in the finale... that relationship? I admit they had a killer friendship but after the Doomsday arc, I'd be surprised if he ever trusts her again....

----- Added 44 Seconds later -----

I don't get one thing...Why does she have to die? Why can't she just leave. I mean she's not mythos based right meaning her future is not determined, so I'd like to think with the possibility of her dying comes the possibility that she can just leave the show going off as Watchtower or something. That's just my 2 cents at least...:)

I actually don't want her to die. Just leave already.;)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

She's original. Like it or not. She is. Throwing the mythos card at my posts which you will do regardless of what I say doesn't matter a bit to me. You'll just igmore the point I'm making so there really is no point in making it, is there? I don't think my words are going to compete with 70+ years :\:rolleyes:

.

Don't be sorry. I don't care if their characters have been that way two or three hundred years. They haven't like Chloe.

Thing is to me, the mythos is a blue print and Smallville is the contractor taking liberties at it. As a potential buyer, I'd rather he just stick to the original plan, before the building collapses on innocent bystanders.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

And incredibly intelligent. That's been established on the show numerous times. Her pattern of speech, her way of throwing in references to pop culture, her sarcasm, her being quick-witted, holding her own with Lex Luthor when she was teenager in HS (the infamous verbal judo as Lex called it), getting one over Lionel Luthor and putting him behind bars. Her fascination with all things strange and weird. Her style of reporting. Her quirky dress sense. Her addiction to coffee, etc, etc, etc.

Hell Yes!!!

You just described Loralai Gilmore :D

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

Ohh no ONE on the comics has EVER faced Jor El like she did :D:D .... nop! There is no one like Ms. Sullivan :D ... except that her mom was Wonder Woman on the past :p:p :cool:;)

Martha Kent did. Jonathan Kent did. And I'm sure if Lois Lane was introduced to Jor-El she'll rip him a new one in his non existent ass.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

well you know that is a perfect description of her and you know I would like to add that really all that matters on smallville is what happens on smallville not all these other media sources smallville is its own world and in that world chloe is all that you describe, the female that clark trust the most, is the female character with the most episodes fortunately and AM is the leading lady on the show as she rightly should be

She has the most episodes because of her contract, no other reason.

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

:)

I can pull out many ideas for Chloe. Like you for Jimmy or like any characters who are now gone from this show.

Its predictable where her character is going in season 9. Watchtower Chloe searches high and low for Clark, Oliver, Bart, Dinah, etc. That'll be the extent of it. B-O-R-I-N-G.

Barbara Gordon. Batgirl turned Oracle. Suddenly she deservse respect since Chloe dared to steal her hacking thunder. I'm sure DC Comics will never be the same for what happened to the ancient female rip-off of Batman.

Bite your tongue, missy! LOL! I happen to loveeeee Batgirl lol. I did hate what they did to her in the comics though. But loved her with Dick Grayson. Especially when they didn't know their own identities... :D

Gabe Sullivan, a good man. He raised Chloe alone since she was little. He's missing now. Is it because a mythos character claimed him as their dad?

If so, there's Moira Sullivan. Anyone in the mythos had a meteor-freak mother who has been taken away? If not there's her connection to Lionel Luthor, anyone had a kicka** storyline with Lex Luthor's father in the mythos?

Or maybe its simply Allison Mack. Pretty good actress who is the only interpretation ever of Chloe Sullivan. No drawing in the comic books can match that.

How are any of those characteristics. You just named her biography.

I don't care if she shares characteristic with major or d-listed comic book characters. Smallville in itself, with all the characters and event that's been going on, is based on comic books and even movies.

So we're calling Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen and Pete Ross D-List comic book characters now? Hmm...

Cause that's who I compared her to.

Chlark, Chlavis, Chlex, Chlionel, her arc as a reporter, a meteor freak and Watchtower are done and shown in a way it was never captured in in the comics. Some won't like it but Chloe's traits, relationships and stories captured many fans because of what they see onscreen.

They captured fans in 2001. In 2009, not so much. Besides, I'd like to see this new Chloe standing up to Lex or Lionel... they'd eat her for breakfast. Or just hand her a tissue cause she'd be sobbing like a widow wife.

Then you can add that as Chloe's original traits: She's been snarky, vulnerable and all that jazz since... 2001.

I wonder if anyone will remember Chloe Sullivan 20 years from now... OR will he be the next T.J White???

And before you ask me: who is T.J White?

He was the made up for tv best friend of Superboy in the 1988 television show. Much like how Chloe Sullivan was created. So in a sense, she's the female T.J White. Does anyone actually remember him??

Oh and Lana was not around for 70 plus years. She appeared in 1950. I hope if doesn't make her less vulnerable than if she was for 70 years.

Thanks, but I was just trying to make a point. :D 1950 is still a long time.

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

Had Chloe not taken her bizarre actions -- such as preventing Clark from sending Davis to the PZ -- Jimmy would be alive. Davis also would not be dead.

Rokk would not have given Clark the ring, so Lois would not be missing. Clark probably would not have walked away from her, because the events that so turned him off would not have taken place.

In other words, she brought all those things you mentioned on herself.

You said all the right things, Joe!

Especially that last line!

bluewolv1970

06-13-2009, 11:07 PM

Oh you mean the relationship that was flushed down the toilet in the finale... that relationship? I admit they had a killer friendship but after the Doomsday arc, I'd be surprised if he ever trusts her again....

----- Added 44 Seconds later -----

I actually don't want her to die. Just leave already.;)

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

Thing is to me, the mythos is a blue print and Smallville is the contractor taking liberties at it. As a potential buyer, I'd rather he just stick to the original plan, before the building collapses on innocent bystanders.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

You just described Loralai Gilmore :D

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

Martha Kent did. Jonathan Kent did. And I'm sure if Lois Lane was introduced to Jor-El she'll rip him a new one in his non existent ass.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

She has the most episodes because of her contract, no other reason.

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

Thanks, but I was just trying to make a point. :D 1950 is still a long time.

yeah you are right no other reason other than maybe talent, a large fan base and great chemistry with TW nonetheless you know it does not change the fact that AM is the leadng lady on the show and when all is said and done AM with have more episodes than ANY female character on the show while [MOD EDIT] will be the runner up to chloe as clarks best friend and runner up to lana as clarks true love but at least she is good for occasional comedy but hardly iconic lois lane

Storm45

06-13-2009, 11:59 PM

Its predictable where her character is going in season 9. Watchtower Chloe searches high and low for Clark, Oliver, Bart, Dinah, etc. That'll be the extent of it. B-O-R-I-N-G

Its predictable for every character. Clois dancing around each other, Clark will save people. As for boring, that's a matter of opinion. I'm looking forward to it.

So we're calling Lois Lane, Lana Lang, Perry White, Jimmy Olsen and Pete Ross D-List comic book characters now? Hmm...

Cause that's who I compared her to.

Pete Ross is certainly not A-list. Same for Lana Lang. As for D-list it was about other characters that might eventually fall victim of Chloe's ability to steal other's traits. Next thing you'll know there will be complaints about how she's taking Plastic Man's role or Cat Grant's.

They captured fans in 2001. In 2009, not so much.

Chlavis couldn't capture fans in 2001 since it was introduced only this year. :rolleyes:

Besides, I'd like to see this new Chloe standing up to Lex or Lionel... they'd eat her for breakfast. Or just hand her a tissue cause she'd be sobbing like a widow wife.

It sounds like a petty, desperate and unfounded attack rather than an objective and fair argument.

She'll treat them like she did Tess in Instinct and Bloodline. The way she always treated the Luthors. That's one thing that never did changed. Sorry. ;)

How are any of those characteristics. You just named her biography.

Her friendship with Clark, her reporting history and her work as Watchtower is also part of her biography yet you stated it as one of her unoriginal traits.

wonder if anyone will remember Chloe Sullivan 20 years from now... OR will he be the next T.J White???

And before you ask me: who is T.J White?

He was the made up for tv best friend of Superboy in the 1988 television show. Much like how Chloe Sullivan was created. So in a sense, she's the female T.J White. Does anyone actually remember him??

Yes. Since you are mentioning him. In fact, you are not the first person to mention in these boards. :lol:

Another petty and desperate attack?

Because what does Chloe being original or not has anything to do with people remembering her or not in 20 years. Is it a new argument being pulled up because the old one is wearing thin?

Lilah

06-14-2009, 12:01 AM

Selina

06-14-2009, 12:04 AM

yeah you are right no other reason other than maybe talent, a large fan base and great chemistry with TW nonetheless you know it does not change the fact that AM is the leadng lady on the show and when all is said and done AM with have more episodes than ANY female character on the show while EDlois will be the runner up to chloe as clarks best friend and runner up to lana as clarks true love but at least she is good for occasional comedy but hardly iconic lois lane

You're latter points are mearly subjective, though I do think Chloe is the BBF of Clark and always will be. I'm happy with that. As for Lois being a runner up to Clark's true love, well no. Lana is his first love but not his ultimate love. I'd also say Lois is becoming more iconic by the episode. What we have to remember is that we're watching SV. She isn' t a top award winning reporter yet and niether is herself and Clark the power couple - but they are getting there slowly. They're on that journey right now, as individual characters and together as the all famous couple. As for Lois's characteristics, they are more iconic than any previous Lois's I've seen. Humour is just one dimmention to the ever long characteristics and layers which define Lois Lane.

Moving on, I still think Chloe serves a purpose on this show. I suppose, I've just always had a soft spot for the girl. Before Lois Lane came onto the show, she was my no1 female. Mythos or non-mythos, I don't think there is a need for her die or leave, though I understand what others have said - it makes more sense for her to because her story is unwritten. That said, I don't want her to - neither do I want to see her leave. However, I don't want her character butchered anymore than it has in season 8. I, myself, am considering season 8 a really bad Chloe season, where she did some really un-Chloe like things, which I hope to see her, on some level, take responsabilty for. I do think Chloe can be redeamed and she can go back to the fun-loving Chloe that we know and love. Personally, I think her role as watchtower is perfect for her. She'll be at the centre of the action again and not bogged down by the some dark angsty storyline. If the writers can have her back to working with the good guys to make the world a better place (as well as remaining Clark's sidekick), then it'll work. If we have a repetation however, she can just leave - purely because I don't want to see her character butchered anymore than it already has. She made it really hard for me to defend her character last year and I really don't want to go through all that again. I should hope that Chloe's character takes a back seat next year. It really did feel like too Chloe/Doomsday centered in season 8 and I think it's essential that Clark Kent is the focus. So while I am looking forward to seeing Chloe's actions with JLA, I hope it doesn't dominate the show, in the same essence that Chloe/Doomsday did. We need to see more of CK and him becoming his iconic self and I know some of you don't want to hear it but a large part of his iconic self is LL. We need to see that relationship materialise next season, as he moves closer to his iconic destiny (imo).

Lilah

06-14-2009, 12:07 AM

You're latter points are mearly subjective, though I do think Chloe is the BBF of Clark and always will be. I'm happy with that. As for Lois being a runner up to Clark's true love, well no. Lana is his first love but not his ultimate love. I'd also say Lois is becoming more iconic by the episode. What we have to remember is that we're watching SV. She isn' t a top award winning reporter yet and niether is herself and Clark the power couple - but they are getting there slowly. They're on that journey right now, as individual characters and together as the all famous couple. As for Lois's characteristics, they are more iconic than any previous Lois's I've seen. Humour is just one dimmention to the ever long characteristics and layers which define Lois Lane.

Moving on, I still think Chloe serves a purpose on this show. I suppose, I've just always had a soft spot for the girl. Before Lois Lane came onto the show, she was my no1 female. Mythos or non-mythos, I don't think there is a need for her die or leave, though I understand what others have said - it makes more sense for her to because her story is unwritten. That said, I don't want her to - neither do I want to see her leave. However, I don't want her character butchered anymore than it has in season 8. I, myself, am considering season 8 a really bad Chloe season, where she did some really un-Chloe like things, which I hope to see her, on some level, take responsabilty for. I do think Chloe can be redeamed and she can go back to the fun-loving Chloe that we know and love. Personally, I think her role as watchtower is perfect for her. She'll be at the centre of the action again and not bogged down by the some dark angsty storyline. If the writers can have her back to working with the good guys to make the world a better place (as well as remaining Clark's sidekick), then it'll work. If we have a repetation however, she can just leave - purely because I don't want to see her character butchered anymore than it already has. It was really hard for me to defend her character last year and I really don't want to go through all that again. I should hope that Chloe's character takes a back seat next year. It really did feel like too Chloe/Doomsday centered in season 8 and I think it's essential that Clark Kent is the focus. So while I am looking forward to seeing Chloe's actions with JLA, I hope it doesn't dominate the show, in the same essence that Chloe/Doomsday did. We need to see more of CK and him becoming his iconic self and I know some of you don't want to hear it but a large part of his iconic self is LL. We need to see that relationship materialise next season, as he moves closer to his iconic destiny (imo).

Superman doesn't need a sidekick. I'd rather Chloe go off and do something good for herself, like become a novelist... or a veternarian. I don't care. Just make her leave already.

Selina

06-14-2009, 12:20 AM

Superman doesn't need a sidekick. I'd rather Chloe go off and do something good for herself, like become a novelist... or a veternarian. I don't care. Just make her leave already.

He doesn't you're right but I suppose I've always liked thier friendship and Chloe being his sidekick just always worked for me. That said, we're not in season 5 anymore and it's pretty obvious that this show it coming to a close. Therefore we need to see Clark become more independant and pro-active. If he's ever to become Superman, he just has to.

What I would like to see next season is Clark relying on himself and his own wits to identify and solve problems and not just run to Chloe when he hits a dead end. I think that is achievable without losing the friendship between Chloe and Clark. Chloe can still serve a sidekick purpose but only to a certain degree. To be fair, it was watered down in season 8 signicifanctly- something the writers, imo, did right. For me, season 8 saw Clark become his more iconic self (the first half) and it wasn't because of going to Chloe for problem solving and research. Ironically, it was Chloe who stopped Clark from being his iconic self in the latter half of the season, but that wasn't a sidekick issue but more of a friendship one. Nevertheles, it was bloody awful to see!

Joe Kahn

06-14-2009, 01:41 AM

EDlois will be the runner up to chloe as clarks best friend and runner up to lana as clarks true love but at least she is good for occasional comedy but hardly iconic lois lane

Do you believe Erica Durance's character on SV is not iconic Lois Lane?

Dustmite

06-14-2009, 03:08 AM

Oh you mean the relationship that was flushed down the toilet in the finale... that relationship? I admit they had a killer friendship but after the Doomsday arc, I'd be surprised if he ever trusts her again....

Nothing's been flushed anywhere no matter how people wish it was. There have been prediction's for the demise of the Chlark friendship all season and nothing, NOTHING, has come off them just as nothing will. Chloe will always be his friend and that can be liked or lumped.

MOD EDIT

Because she is always will be for all the reasons that I named and more.

Martha Kent did. Jonathan Kent did. And I'm sure if Lois Lane was introduced to Jor-El she'll rip him a new one in his non existent ass.

Nah. Not like Chloe.

I wonder if anyone will remember Chloe Sullivan 20 years from now... OR will he be the next T.J White???

And before you ask me: who is T.J White?

I don't need to ask to know that it's a horrible comparison for characters who couldn't be more different and in fact is rather invalid. TJW never held the importance in Clark's life that Chloe has. He wasn't around for as long as Chloe has been.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 04:50 AM

He doesn't you're right but I suppose I've always liked thier friendship and Chloe being his sidekick just always worked for me. That said, we're not in season 5 anymore and it's pretty obvious that this show it coming to a close. Therefore we need to see Clark become more independant and pro-active. If he's ever to become Superman, he just has to.

What I would like to see next season is Clark relying on himself and his own wits to identify and solve problems and not just run to Chloe when he hits a dead end. I think that is achievable without losing the friendship between Chloe and Clark. Chloe can still serve a sidekick purpose but only to a certain degree. To be fair, it was watered down in season 8 signicifanctly- something the writers, imo, did right. For me, season 8 saw Clark become his more iconic self (the first half) and it wasn't because of going to Chloe for problem solving and research. Ironically, it was Chloe who stopped Clark from being his iconic self in the latter half of the season, but that wasn't a sidekick issue but more of a friendship one. Nevertheles, it was bloody awful to see!

Let Clark learn how to use a computer:p;)

That's all they gotta do to make things right again lol.... apparently, on SV everything can be found on google (that's referenced a lot as google, but yet called something completely different lol):D

----- Added 15 Minutes later -----

Nothing's been flushed anywhere no matter how people wish it was. There have been prediction's for the demise of the Chlark friendship all season and nothing, NOTHING, has come off them just as nothing will. Chloe will always be his friend and that can be liked or lumped.

Actually in the season 8 finale, that's the impression left. That Chloe and Clark's friendship is no longer the same it was in previous years.....

MOD EDIT

I didn't say Chloe was a fault line. I said I'd rather they stick to the original plan. That being said, Chloe Sullivan was a fine character on the show... UNTIL CLARK LEFT SMALLVILLE. Then she just had no place there anymore. She was given more importance than needed. She should have just been Clark's friend from high school and stopped there. But to keep her on, they had to involve her with mythos characters (cousin to Lois Lane, wife to Jimmy Olsen, lover to Davis Boom/Doomsday).

Without these links, what is keeping her on the show... nothing. They've already severed her link to Davis and Jimmy, all that's keeping her on is her link to Lois. Too bad blood is thicker than water....

No I didn't. I described Chloe Sullivan right down to the letter. I can provide facts from the show to back them up but I can't be bothered to waste my time knowing they will be ignored.

Because it seems to me at least that you will never recognize that Chloe is original and will use random characters from other TV shows to prove whatver it is that you're trying to prove.

Why? Why are you comparing her to characters from another genre, another show? Do you honestly think that people don't share traits or do you just not like the suggestion that Chloe is considered original and liked by some.

Because she is always will be for all the reasons that I named and more.

Because.... she really isn't original. In fact, no one is. Every character, every show, film, book, IDEA has something taken from something else.

Originally, I gave reasons as to why she wasn't original by comparing her to other canon Superman characters.

Chloe Sullivan is a plot device for Smallville and she's a prototype of many of the characters from the comics.

That's not necessary a bad thing....

Had they ended her story, when Clark left high school, everything would have been fine. She would have ended her entire character on a really high note with many fans. Thing is, the longer she's on the worst it gets.

Nah. Not like Chloe.

How can someone have done any of that differently. Everyone hated Jor-El then was grateful to him, then hated him again. Clark didn't even acknowledge he was really his father until Abyss this season.

She hasn't done anything differently when up against Jor-El. In fact she's only gone up against him once. I think the one that really showed empowerment was Martha Kent. But then again, she's always been a favorite female on the show for me.

I don't need to ask to know that it's a horrible comparison for characters who couldn't be more different and in fact is rather invalid. TJW never held the importance in Clark's life that Chloe has. He wasn't around for as long as Chloe has been.

How is it a horrible comparison? TJ was the best friend on one show, Chloe is the best friend on another. Superboy was on the air for 4 seasons, Smallville is going into its 9th. TJ was modeled after Pete Ross, Chloe Sullivan's friendship with Clark was meant to continue where Pete's left off.

It's really not a bad comparison. She could be compared to worse.

Storm45

06-14-2009, 06:39 AM

Isn't Pete was the guy who was mostly used as an extra and that we barely saw for the time he was on that show?

Why suddenly there's this big friendship that Chloe only stepped in?

UNTIL CLARK LEFT SMALLVILLE. Then she just had no place there anymore. She was given more importance than needed. She should have just been Clark's friend from high school and stopped there. But to keep her on, they had to involve her with mythos characters (cousin to Lois Lane, wife to Jimmy Olsen, lover to Davis Boom/Doomsday).

Without these links, what is keeping her on the show... nothing. They've already severed her link to Davis and Jimmy, all that's keeping her on is her link to Lois. Too bad blood is thicker than water....

She's linked to the main character of the show: Clark Kent. No matter what kind of relationship they have.

For a long time, since season 1, there were plans to introduce Lois as Chloe's cousin. So nope it wasn't something they thought about just to keep her on that show. Also her relationship with Lois was never put on display very much unlike her relaitonship with Clark. So its quite exagerated to say that her only link to the series is Lois.
As for Jimmy, she never needed him. It was him who had no other role than being Chloe's love interest while Chloe had her main story involving Clark. I think its mostly Jimmy's role who is given more importance than it should by you.

If someone other than Lex Luthor had a place in Clark's life after high school its Chloe. She was the one with ambition to come back to Metropolis and be as DP reporter while Clark was still on the farm. Its only natural that she kept going in the path that has been laid since day one. She wasnt meant to be the one he left behind in high school. Like it or not.

Chloe always represented Clark's future from journalism to the embrace of his alien heritage to being a superhero. She was never ment to represent his past on the farm.

Because.... she really isn't original. In fact, no one is. Every character, every show, film, book, IDEA has something taken from something else.

Original as being a Smallville creation.

Had they ended her story, when Clark left high school, everything would have been fine. She would have ended her entire character on a really high note with many fans. Thing is, the longer she's on the worst it gets.

Here we go with the ''But so many people think like me''. Yeah, so many people also are fans of Chloe and are more than okay with seeing her journey continue. Yes, me too I can pull the ''Many people think like me so I'm right'' kind of validation.
Just like I've been asked to stop exagerating with saying how many fans used the non-mytos excuse, can you stop trying to validate yourself by adding how ''many'' people think like you? Don't be scared to say that its only your opinion. We don't care about how much you think people share your opinion. For what its worth.

Let Clark learn how to use a computer

That's all they gotta do to make things right again lol.... apparently, on SV everything can be found on google (that's referenced a lot as google, but yet called something completely different lol)

That's pretty low. Is that all you can resort to now ?

LovelyLoisLane

06-14-2009, 07:44 AM

Sorry, I'm coming in REAL late to the party but I just got back from 'vacation' in Texas and I didn't realize this thread was here.

I never like anyone to be permanently 'dead' . . . well maybe Doomsday. ;)

I wasn't happy earlier on when spoilers made it seem like it really was Chloe that was going to kick the bucket. I'm glad she didn't get killed off and especially that she didn't get killed off in the finale because seeing how the 'Jimmy' death was treated it all went by in a rush and I think that would be a disservice to a character that has been on SV since the beginning. (Not that I'm saying it wasn't also a disservice to Jimmy Olsen fans because it WAS.)

However I voted that I would've thought I'd be happier.

Chloe has never been my favorite character and like Clark in previous seasons there were moments that I really disliked her, but she would always redeem herself in a way that made me feel attached again. This season I was really liking the new direction with her as it gave her something original to do instead of treading on ground other SV characters had or have.

(I don't know about all the lesser known comics characters Chloe might be borrowing from, but that doesn't really bother me either. I'm a science-fiction/fantasy writer and I can tell you that it gets very trying to find ORIGINAL original material that someone somewhere at sometime hasn't written about in some form. All you can really do is put a fresh spin on an old idea. Or as chefs put it 'kick things up a notch')

Anyway, I was liking Chloe's new direction. I've felt like she was veering away from journalism even awhile before she got fired and chose not to return. So it was nice to see her in a role that 'I' felt was better suited to the person she has become while still paying homage to her roots on the show. With that said I really like that she is embracing a role as Watchtower even more now and I look forward to that.

However I've grown less and less attached to her character in the later half of this season. She made some questionable decisions, and I'm okay with that, but they were swept under the rug of 'heroism' in a fashion that to me pangs of Lana. Her speech with Jimmy was one of such instances where I physically cringed because of poor-woes-me quality of it.

To me I would feel more attached to a character that had drifted into the dark side a bit and recognized that and saw a role as Watchtower as a way of re-compensating. I find it hard to believe EVERYTHING was for Clark. Especially in regards to the Chlavis relationship. She was having late night dreams of making out with the guy compounded by nightmarish visions of that same guy killing Clark, but she was only confused about that as wanting to save Davis and Clark both? I don’t know but I think a dream like she had in ‘Beast’ is very indicative of being caught between your feelings/attraction to someone and your fear of the danger they present. Honestly I think Chloe suffered from the same rush job that led to the demise of Davis Bloome and Jimmy Olsen.

I can't blame the character for that, and at least in Chloe's case she has the opportunity to find a favorable place in my eyes again, whereas the aforementioned gentlemen do not. However the finale compounded my growing distance from the character of Chloe since 'Bulletproof' and I just didn't feel nearly as thrilled about her surviving as I thought I'd be. As a whole I didn't hate the episode but I didn't like it that much either and in that as well I think Chloe surviving was just swallowed up in my mounting disappointment.

But I have hope for season nine and I'm excited to see what is going to happen, so that's something! :)

Jade4813

06-14-2009, 09:26 AM

I've noted that she's still alive, but I think "appreciation" is the wrong word. While not everyone agrees with me, I know, I personally find her character to be fairly boring, poorly written, ill-used, shoehorned into stories, and in general often a Mary Sue who acts all superior and puts the blame for her actions on Clark when she's the one who made the mistakes. She's also acting like the "victim" when in fact she's the cause of a good deal of the problems that she takes on...which is true of most people, that they bring a good deal of the bad things in their life down upon themselves. Of course, not everybody then tries to act like they're the victim...

Well, my previous general ambivalence and minor dislike of her character became full-on hatred in Doomsday, because that's when I feel like they just full-out Lanafied her.

Ah, well. For me personally, I rather wish Chloe'd left a few years ago, when I still loved her character. Then at least I'd be able to look at the past episodes and enjoy her. Now I think I dislike her more than Lana - which takes a good deal of doing - because Lana was vile IMO from the beginning whereas I felt Chloe used to be great and now she's just really not.

But as with every character, there will be a segment of the fanbase that will look forward to every one of her scenes, whereas other segments (including myself) will just suffer through them. I'd certainly be suffering through them if I watch them at all...and, honestly, Chloe annoys me to the point now where I don't think even fastforwarding through her scenes will make them palatable.

And, for some people, Smallville will always be cherished for having had Chloe on it. For others, she'll be forgotten if they're lucky, and there's some relief to be had in knowing that post-Smallville, they likely won't see her again.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 09:53 AM

Isn't Pete was the guy who was mostly used as an extra and that we barely saw for the time he was on that show?

Why suddenly there's this big friendship that Chloe only stepped in?

SV's representation of Pete Ross may have not been that great, that's just my opinion, but Pete Ross is an important character to Clark Kent's story. It was his childhood friend who goes o to marry Lana Lang.

She's linked to the main character of the show: Clark Kent. No matter what kind of relationship they have.

Or lack there of. In my opinion, their relationship is just not what it used to be in earlier seasons.

For a long time, since season 1, there were plans to introduce Lois as Chloe's cousin. So nope it wasn't something they thought about just to keep her on that show. Also her relationship with Lois was never put on display very much unlike her relaitonship with Clark. So its quite exagerated to say that her only link to the series is Lois.
As for Jimmy, she never needed him. It was him who had no other role than being Chloe's love interest while Chloe had her main story involving Clark. I think its mostly Jimmy's role who is given more importance than it should by you.

Really? A mythos character needed a non-mythos character to get a storyline? Seriously.... while he may have been Chloe's love interest. That's hardly the extent of his character. He's also Clark's friend, Lois' friend, if we had Perry White on the show he'd have a relationship with Perry (kinda like a father-son thing) and he took the Red and Blue Blur's first photo. I think he even named him....

If someone other than Lex Luthor had a place in Clark's life after high school its Chloe. She was the one with ambition to come back to Metropolis and be as DP reporter while Clark was still on the farm. Its only natural that she kept going in the path that has been laid since day one. She wasnt meant to be the one he left behind in high school. Like it or not.

And yet, Lex is gone. Chloe began as his friend. IT should have stayed that way. Unfortunately, it didn't. Seriously, I liked Chloe in the first 7 and 1/2 seasons. IT wasn't until Power that I started really disliking the character.

And again, this has nothing to do with Allison Mack. I think she's beautifully talented. She's just awesome. But the way this character is getting written lately, is very poorly. They've turned her into Lana Lang. It's like we have to have someone to hate on the show. Personally, I think all the characters should be likeable, unless they're playing a villain. I would have preferred Chloe become a shady character fully rather than a indecissive character. Which is exactly what she became.

Chloe always represented Clark's future from journalism to the embrace of his alien heritage to being a superhero. She was never ment to represent his past on the farm.

Chloe is Clark's future? How so? I thought that was Lois' place... considering she's his soul mate and all....

Original as being a Smallville creation.

I still think she's just a plot device, whether she's original or not. I don't think she is original but that's just MY opinion.;)

Here we go with the ''But so many people think like me''. Yeah, so many people also are fans of Chloe and are more than okay with seeing her journey continue. Yes, me too I can pull the ''Many people think like me so I'm right'' kind of validation.
Just like I've been asked to stop exagerating with saying how many fans used the non-mytos excuse, can you stop trying to validate yourself by adding how ''many'' people think like you? Don't be scared to say that its only your opinion. We don't care about how much you think people share your opinion. For what its worth.

I wasn't trying to act like so many people think like me. Sorry that it came across that way. I'm just going by what I've read on this site. Alot of people have made similar comments like mine. I'm not scared if it is MY opinion. In fact I welcome it. I was never a follower anyway.

That's pretty low. Is that all you can resort to now ?

No I've got more, but you seem to knock it down, so like you said... what's the point?

WE can agree to disagree.:D

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

I've noted that she's still alive, but I think "appreciation" is the wrong word. While not everyone agrees with me, I know, I personally find her character to be fairly boring, poorly written, ill-used, shoehorned into stories, and in general often a Mary Sue who acts all superior and puts the blame for her actions on Clark when she's the one who made the mistakes. She's also acting like the "victim" when in fact she's the cause of a good deal of the problems that she takes on...which is true of most people, that they bring a good deal of the bad things in their life down upon themselves. Of course, not everybody then tries to act like they're the victim...

Well, my previous general ambivalence and minor dislike of her character became full-on hatred in Doomsday, because that's when I feel like they just full-out Lanafied her.

Ah, well. For me personally, I rather wish Chloe'd left a few years ago, when I still loved her character. Then at least I'd be able to look at the past episodes and enjoy her. Now I think I dislike her more than Lana - which takes a good deal of doing - because Lana was vile IMO from the beginning whereas I felt Chloe used to be great and now she's just really not.

But as with every character, there will be a segment of the fanbase that will look forward to every one of her scenes, whereas other segments (including myself) will just suffer through them. I'd certainly be suffering through them if I watch them at all...and, honestly, Chloe annoys me to the point now where I don't think even fastforwarding through her scenes will make them palatable.

And, for some people, Smallville will always be cherished for having had Chloe on it. For others, she'll be forgotten if they're lucky, and there's some relief to be had in knowing that post-Smallville, they likely won't see her again.

I agree! I loved her all the way until Power in season 8. Then after that I started to dislike her almost as much as Lana. I can't say more than Lana, cause I've disliked Lana longer lol;)

Storm45

06-14-2009, 10:09 AM

SV's representation of Pete Ross may have sucked, but Pete Ross is an important character to Clark Kent. It was his childhood friend who goes o to marry Lana Lang.

In the comics not Smallville. Only thing that remained in the show was the childhood friend part. But it wasn't to a point where it was exclusive. He also had Chloe, Lex and Lana as friends.

Really? A mythos character needed a non-mythos character to get a storyline? Seriously....

Henry James is not a mythos character. But if he was the answer would be yes. Through his run his storyline depended on Chloe.

while he may have been Chloe's love interest. That's hardly the extent of his character. He's also Clark's friend, Lois' friend, if we had Perry White on the show he'd have a relationship with Perry (kinda like a father-son thing)[/B] and he took the Red and Blue Blur's first photo. I think he even named him....

All in the comics. Not Smallville. It can still happen on Smallville season 15 with the ''real'' Jimmy Olsen who was introduced in the funeral.

And yet, Lex is gone. Chloe began as his friend. IT should have stayed that way. Unfortunately, it didn't.

Chloe was already Clark's friend when the Clex's friendship started.

Chloe is Clark's future? How so? I thought that was Lois' place... considering she's his soul mate and all....

I didn't say Chloe was his future wife. Though yet again, its Chloe who served as a link between Clark and Lois. I said Chloe was the one who introduced him to investigative journalism since High school, the DP, the one embraced what was abnormal in the world while Clark craved normalcy (this influence was still there in Hex) and she's now involved in superhero gig.

wasn't trying to act like so many people think like me. Sorry that it came across that way. I'm just going by what I've read on this site. Alot of people have made similar comments like mine. I'm not scared if it is MY opinion. In fact I welcome it. I was never a follower anyway.

Fair enough.

RedKRules

06-14-2009, 01:11 PM

Chloe Sullivan is Chloe Sullivan ... period. and Yes I am so happy she lived ... Go Chloe!!!!!!!!

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

No I didn't. I described Chloe Sullivan right down to the letter. I can provide facts from the show to back them up but I can't be bothered to waste my time knowing they will be ignored.

I agree it is just a waste of time ...... it is like knocking on a door of an empty house ... knowing no one will ever greet you ......

Dustmite

06-14-2009, 01:18 PM

Actually in the season 8 finale, that's the impression left. That Chloe and Clark's friendship is no longer the same it was in previous years.....

Nope and in season 9, they'll just be fine and dandy.

I didn't say Chloe was a fault line. I said I'd rather they stick to the original plan. That being said, Chloe Sullivan was a fine character on the show... UNTIL CLARK LEFT SMALLVILLE. Then she just had no place there anymore. She was given more importance than needed. She should have just been Clark's friend from high school and stopped there.

Says who? Who says that she should have stopped there? Where's the rule book? What are we following? The mythos that she's never been part of can't dictate something for someone it doesn't acknowledge. She obviously hasn't stopped there (wherever there is supposed to be) so she isn't just Clark's friend from HS. Pete was Clark's friend from HS. Chloe is his friend beyond HS.

Without these links, what is keeping her on the show... nothing. They've already severed her link to Davis and Jimmy, all that's keeping her on is her link to Lois. Too bad blood is thicker than water....

No. Not at all. Lois is NOT keeping her on Smallville. Lois is keeping her nowhere and never ever has. Clark IS keeping her on Smallville. He is the only link that matters. He's the only link that ever has mattered.

Because.... she really isn't original. In fact, no one is. Every character, every show, film, book, IDEA has something taken from something else.

Then everything we've discussed so far it moot point. Right?

Had they ended her story, when Clark left high school, everything would have been fine. She would have ended her entire character on a really high note with many fans. Thing is, the longer she's on the worst it gets.

Fine with who? Mythos fans? They aren't the only ones watching.

She hasn't done anything differently when up against Jor-El. In fact she's only gone up against him once. I think the one that really showed empowerment was Martha Kent. But then again, she's always been a favorite female on the show for me.

And Chloe for me. Favourite I mean so we can all see how personal bias effects our opinions. Yeah?

How is it a horrible comparison? TJ was the best friend on one show, Chloe is the best friend on another. Superboy was on the air for 4 seasons, Smallville is going into its 9th. TJ was modeled after Pete Ross, Chloe Sullivan's friendship with Clark was meant to continue where Pete's left off.

It's really not a bad comparison. She could be compared to worse.

Superboy might have been on the air for four years. TJ White wasn't though. I assume you know that since you brought him up. He survived just one season. I think that's why it's a horrible comparison.

If 70+ years of mythos trumps Smallville as you've pointed out in previous posts then I would have to say that 8+ years of Chloe Sullivan trumps TJ White. Not to mention that their relationships are different, their dynamics are different and well, they're different people altjough I would like TJW's ending for Chloe Sullivan.

And, for some people, Smallville will always be cherished for having had Chloe on it. For others, she'll be forgotten if they're lucky, and there's some relief to be had in knowing that post-Smallville, they likely won't see her again.

I know that a lot of people who will cherish Smallville for introducing them to Chloe Sullivan also couldn't give a toss that she won't be in any media post Smallville. So it's nice that it works out well for a lot of people.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 01:32 PM

In the comics not Smallville. Only thing that remained in the show was the childhood friend part. But it wasn't to a point where it was exclusive. He also had Chloe, Lex and Lana as friends.

But but Pete was his oldest friend out of the 4 people who he was was friends with. Clark Kent wasn't a loner. He had many friends in his younger years. The only one never mentioned before Smallville is Chloe. Because in the Superboy comics he was friends with Lex, Lana and Pete. But that's not my problem. I don't think its far fetched that he had a friend named Chloe Sullivan who was also the editor of his high school newspaper. But they weaved her more into his life when she found out his secret. Before that happened, she was just his friend who he kept his secret from just like everyone else.

Pete is also the first one to find out his secret.

Henry James is not a mythos character. But if he was the answer would be yes. Through his run his storyline depended on Chloe.

Himmy was a curveball. Up until episode 8x22, there is no evidence to suggest that AAJimmy was not the iconic Jimmy Olsen. I don't think his run solely depended on Chloe. I think he was coming into his own as a Daily Planet photographer, especially with his shot of the RBB.

All in the comics. Not Smallville. It can still happen on Smallville season 15 with the ''real'' Jimmy Olsen who was introduced in the funeral.

The alleged "Jimmy Olsen"... maybe.

Chloe was already Clark's friend when the Clex's friendship started.

She'd met him a year prior. Okay, I'll give you that. But I wasn't comparing her to the Clex friendship. I was comparing her to the TJ-Superboy friendship of the 1980's television show.

I didn't say Chloe was his future wife. Though yet again, its Chloe who served as a link between Clark and Lois. I said Chloe was the one who introduced him to investigative journalism since High school, the DP, the one embraced what was abnormal in the world while Clark craved normalcy (this influence was still there in Hex) and she's now involved in superhero gig.

Lois' reason for coming to Smallville may have been for justice for Chloe's murder, but its not what kept her there. If that were true she would have left in Facade. Her reason for staying was kinda that she was stuck, being kicked out of school and all ;)

1. You assume Chloe introduced Clark into investigative journalism. This is pure speculation, being as when the pilot airs, the three of them are already working at The Torch. Clark could have easily been interested prior to meeting her.

Until I see a scene of Chloe telling Clark he should get involved in journalism, I can't believe that statement you made.

2. Lois gave him the application too the Daily Planet and told him there's more to him than staying on the Farm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-yeeU2uY7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v_PbNnF6EM

So again, Chloe had nothing to do with that either.

3. Chloe craved to have Lois Lane's life cause it seemed more exciting than her own. And a day in Lois Lane's shoes led to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR1w3msNdJA

So it wasn't abnormalty per say she craved, but actually excitement. It just so happens this is Smallville and a normal day is actually abnormal compared to the real world.

And as for her being involved in the superhero gig. I think she'd be working closer with Oliver than Clark though... refer to above link. Because Clark hasn't exactly joined Oliver's team yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUtqjtPmEhQ

4. Clark craved to be a normal guy with a regular job. What does this have to do with Chloe, though?

Fair enough.

Okay.:)

----- Added 16 Minutes later -----

Nope and in season 9, they'll just be fine and dandy.

Again, that was just my opinion. I haven't seen the same friendship since earlier seasons, in this season.

Says who? Who says that she should have stopped there? Where's the rule book? What are we following? The mythos that she's never been part of can't dictate something for someone it doesn't acknowledge. She obviously hasn't stopped there (whereever there is supposed to be) so she isn't just Clark's friend from HS. Pete was Clark's friend from HS. Chloe is his friend beyond HS.

Again, that's MY opinion. I would have preferred they ended her earlier when her character was really likeable. Now, I can't stand the character, so for ME they have ruined the Chloe Sullivan. She was actually a favorite of mine, and now not so much. Now I really don't like her. So I think if they'd ended her after high school, she would ended on a high note and may have even had a chance at being put into the comic.

No. Not at all. Lois is NOT keeping her on Smallville. Lois is keeping her nowhere and never ever has. Clark IS keeping her on Smallville. He is the only link that matters. He's the only link that ever has mattered.

Right now, all that's keeping her there really is the Watchtower gig. But Chloe Fluctuates more than a flex capacitor. So lets see how long that arc lasts.

Then everything we've discussed so far it moot point. Right?

Yeah, if you say so...

Fine with who? Mythos fans? They aren't the only ones watching.

Chloe's storyline have taken a drastic turn in season 8. She's no longer the good guy. She's now a very shady character who crossed a few lines. Alot like how Lana evolved. And we all know how her character was recieved and sent off. With not a lot of love from fans.... I think Chloe might have the same fate. Especially after season 8.

And Chloe for me. Favourite I mean so we can all see how personal bias effects our opinions. Yeah?

Isn't everything on this board based on opinions though? Like I've said before, Chloe was a favorite of mine. I preferred her to Lana. But I really detest the way her character was written in the latter half of this past season.

Superboy might have been on the show for four years. TJ White wasn't though. I assume you know that since you brought him up. He survived just one season. I think that's why it's a horrible comparison.

I compared them, because they both played similar roles. Chloe can be compared to TJ up until she found out Clark's secret. Then she became even more important to the show, because she became his sidekick. In fact she was the leading lady until this past year when Kristin left. Maybe next season Erica will finally be moved up, or maybe it'll happen in s10, when AM's contract is up. The point is, she wasn't always a leading character. Not like Clark, Lex and Lana were.

If 70+ years of mythos trumps Smallville as you've pointed out in previous posts then I would have to say that 8+ years of Chloe Sullivan trumps TJ White. Not to mention that their relationships are different, their dynamics are different and well, they're different people altjough I would like TJW's ending for Chloe Sullivan.

I think she deserves a similar send off. I just don't see how it'll happen after everything that happened in season 8. A lot is just unforgivable. And its funny but if you look at imdb.com and look up Superboy, Lana Lang actually has more episodes than Superboy himself. How strange is that?

I personally hated that show. All I compared to Chloe was the friendship status. She started out same as TJ. As Clark's high school friend. It wasn't until she found out the secret that things changed drastically for her character.

I know that a lot of people who will cherish Smallville for introducing them to Chloe Sullivan also couldn't give a toss that she won't be in any media post Smallville. So it's nice that it works out well for a lot of people.

Just like a lot of people are glad to have been introduced to TJ White, Mercy Graves, Miss Tessmacher, etc. Characters who weren't introduced in the comics originally. You never know. Chloe could end up in the comics. We can't tell the future.

I personally, will probably forget her after Smallville is off the air, unless I watch the dvds again. But that's just me;)

Kryptochloe

06-14-2009, 01:53 PM

Chloe Sullivan is Chloe Sullivan ... period. and Yes I am so happy she lived ... Go Chloe!!!!!!!!

Hell Yeah !!!!!!!:D:D (Lucky me, who can enjoy her favorite character one more season...)

RedKRules

06-14-2009, 02:23 PM

Hell Yeah !!!!!!!:D:D (Lucky me, who can enjoy her favorite character one more season...)

So TRUE!!! What happens on the future ....... belongs to the future ..... what matter for me is now Chloe Sullivan is CK bestfriend ...... leading lady and best Reporter SV will ever see ......and SHE SURVIVED another season that's great because you know even the ICONICS ones didn't have the same luck !!!!! so GO CHLOE!!!!!

Kryptochloe

06-14-2009, 02:47 PM

* Making the "my favorite character didn't die (against most bets)" dance *

GO CHLOE!! GO CHLOE!!:D

ginevrakent

06-14-2009, 02:51 PM

So TRUE!!! What happens on the future ....... belongs to the future ..... what matter for me is now Chloe Sullivan is CK bestfriend ...... leading lady and best Reporter SV will ever see ......and SHE SURVIVED another season that's great because you know even the ICONICS ones didn't have the same luck !!!!! so GO CHLOE!!!!!

This is how I see it: Chloe is one of Clark's best friends, she is one of the leading ladies, and she isn't a reporter and definitely not the best that we've seen on Smallville. So I guess all Chloe has is her own existence going for her, which I suppose is a plus.

I'm not sure what you mean about iconic characters not having the luck of surviving. Lois lives, Jimmy lives, Clark lives, Lex likely lives, Oliver lives, Martha lives, Sam Lane lives, Lucy Lane lives, Pete Ross lives, Perry White, Kara Zor-El, and Lana Lang lives. Non-canon characters that don't survive the series: Lionel Luthor, Jason Teague, Davis Bloome, Adam Knight, Henry James Olsen, Patricia Swann, Virgil Swann, Genevieve Teague, Edward Teague, Dax-Ur, Dr. Walden, Sheriff Adams, Sheriff Ethan, Helen Bryce, and Grant Gabriel/Julian Luthor. So, yes, GO CHLOE! Let's hope you don't share the fate of the other non-canon characters. I'm certainly ready to see her go after the awful year she had this season. She's not Chloe Sullivan to me anymore, she's nothing like the girl I once liked.

Dustmite

06-14-2009, 03:00 PM

RedKRules

06-14-2009, 03:11 PM

* Making the "my favorite character didn't die (against most bets)" dance *

GO CHLOE!! GO CHLOE!!:D

:D:D:D:D Go Chloe indeed!!

point0fn0return

06-14-2009, 03:13 PM

Hell Yeah !!!!!!!:D:D (Lucky me, who can enjoy her favorite character one more season...)

Same here! I'm so glad she's alive and I get to enjoy her character for one more season :D...YAY!

RedKRules

06-14-2009, 03:15 PM

Yes!!!!! ITA!! Chloe Sullivan doesn't die!!!!! CK said it so ..... GO Chloe!!!! :D

Edit: I forgot to mention that who wrote that line was Geoff ... a wonderful comic writer who actually love Superman and truly know how to write him ...... and at the same time managed to respect Smallville basis and made justice to its characters......

Instead of writing them what the heckily OOC like some others do.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 03:45 PM

This is how I see it: Chloe is one of Clark's best friends, she is one of the leading ladies, and she isn't a reporter and definitely not the best that we've seen on Smallville. So I guess all Chloe has is her own existence going for her, which I suppose is a plus.

I'm not sure what you mean about iconic characters not having the luck of surviving. Lois lives, Jimmy lives, Clark lives, Lex likely lives, Oliver lives, Martha lives, Sam Lane lives, Lucy Lane lives, Pete Ross lives, Perry White, Kara Zor-El, and Lana Lang lives. Non-canon characters that don't survive the series: Lionel Luthor, Jason Teague, Davis Bloome, Adam Knight, Henry James Olsen, Patricia Swann, Virgil Swann, Genevieve Teague, Edward Teague, Dax-Ur, Dr. Walden, Sheriff Adams, Sheriff Ethan, Helen Bryce, and Grant Gabriel/Julian Luthor. So, yes, GO CHLOE! Let's hope you don't share the fate of the other non-canon characters. I'm certainly ready to see her go after the awful year she had this season. She's not Chloe Sullivan to me anymore, she's nothing like the girl I once liked.

Well, you know what they say.... history always repeats itself. :lol:

But I agree. She ain't the same Chloe... wait maybe she's a clone???? :rolleyes::rotfl:

Storm45

06-14-2009, 04:14 PM

1. You assume Chloe introduced Clark into investigative journalism. This is pure speculation, being as when the pilot airs, the three of them are already working at The Torch. Clark could have easily been interested prior to meeting her.

Until I see a scene of Chloe telling Clark he should get involved in journalism, I can't believe that statement you made.

Chloe was interested in journalism since she was a little girl, she was always the one who was more interested in that career than Clark . Nothing about Clark suggested the same thing.

2. Lois gave him the application too the Daily Planet and told him there's more to him than staying on the Farm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-yeeU2uY7s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2v_PbNnF6EM

So again, Chloe had nothing to do with that either.

Lois would never thought of giving him the application and Clark may never give a try at the DP if he didn't have some experience with Chloe in the field. On top of that he was always on the DP building because of Chloe. His experience with Chloe led him to where he is at the DP.

3. Chloe craved to have Lois Lane's life cause it seemed more exciting than her own. And a day in Lois Lane's shoes led to this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR1w3msNdJA

So it wasn't abnormalty per say she craved, but actually excitement. It just so happens this is Smallville and a normal day is actually abnormal compared to the real world.

... What does Lois Lane's life have to do with Chloe's article on the Loch Ness monster (she didn't even lived in Smallville when she did that), her wanting the book of Tales of the Unexplained (When she just arrived in Smallville) , her meteor rocks theories, her tally on meteor freaks and so on??? Because that's what i meant by abnormal. Her interest in things that are out of the ordinary.

In season 2 Clark asked her what she would think if she ever meant an alien. While Lana said she would freak out Chloe was the one who said that she would be cool with this.

And as for her being involved in the superhero gig. I think she'd be working closer with Oliver than Clark though... refer to above link. Because Clark hasn't exactly joined Oliver's team yet.

Yet, Clark will join the team one day. A team that Chloe is already involved in.

4. Clark craved to be a normal guy with a regular job. What does this have to do with Chloe, though?

She reminded him of his true identity.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 04:59 PM

Chloe was interested in journalism since she was a little girl, she was always the one who was more interested in that career than Clark . Nothing about Clark suggested the same thing.

Yet, that doesn't say she introduced him to journalism. She only first introduced him to the Wall of Weird in the pilot. It was implied she had it since she arrived a year earlier. Clark was already working at The Torch when he saw it the first time. Remember it was in a janitor closet first. Then for some reason, transfered to the Torch office.

Lois would never thought of giving him the application and Clark may never give a try at the DP if he didn't have some experience with Chloe in the field. On top of that he was always on the DP building because of Chloe. His experience with Chloe led him to where he is at the DP.

Whether Lois would have given him the application or not, Clark would have ended up at the Daily Planet. He worked there long before Chloe was even a figment of ALMILES imagination.

The fact that Lois gave him an application to be an intern is a twist on the classic mythos. It doesn't show in any way, shape or form that Chloe had anything to do with her decision to give it to him (other than her losing her job, opened up the spot) and it doesn't look like Chloe's "influence" had anything to do with him taking the job. MythosClark joined to be in on the action for Superman purposes. Clark told Lois this exact line ("I guess you can say I wanted to be in the middle of the action...") And he joined right after his conversation with Oliver, AC and Dinah. So if anything, I think they may have given him the extra nudge he needed to take the job, not Chloe.

... What does Lois Lane's life have to do with Chloe's article on the Loch Ness monster (she didn't even lived in Smallville when she did that), her wanting the book of Tales of the Unexplained (When she just arrived in Smallville) , her meteor rocks theories, her tally on meteor freaks and so on??? Because that's what i meant by abnormal. Her interest in things that are out of the ordinary.

Actually, she did. In that episode, it was implied that Chloe and her family passed through Smallville at one point. How else would her mother have gotten a meteor infection in the first meteor shower.

She was looking for the book because it was her favorite. And it just so happened it was when she just arrived in Smallville. She made the comment, more to show how mundane Smallville was compared to Metropolis.

Her meteor rock theories came from all the weird crap that happened in town, that everyone had seemed to turn their faces away from. But after the pilot, its safe to say she wasn't the only one who noticed the weirdness.

Her tally on meteor freaks? Um.. ok. I think its relatively the same as Lana's, Pete's and Clark's.

I think as a teenager she used to be interested in things that were hard to explain and abnormal. Then she grew up and realized that they were no longer unexplained. That was what her comment meant, in MY opinion.

In season 2 Clark asked her what she would think if she ever meant an alien. While Lana said she would freak out Chloe was the one who said that she would be cool with this.

Okay, I can't say I remember that scene. But that's about as relative as me saying I'd want an exclusive with the visitor. That really doesn't say much about what we're talking about.

And for the record, Lana too was "cool with it". She dated and slept with an alien to boot. As was Pete, as was Lois. Cool with it, I mean.

Yet, Clark will join the team one day. A team that Chloe is already involved in.

We'll see how long that lasts.

MY theory... Chloe will be moved out of the JL to make room for Clark, same as it happened with the Daily Planet. There can't be too many chiefs and no indians. And according to mythology, Superman is meant to be one of its founding members and leaders of the Justice League. So I predict Chloe won't be there long. If she's even there anymore, since Oliver obviously doesn't trust her.

She reminded him of his true identity.

She didn't actually remind him. It wasn't until she changed right before his eyes that he believed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FC3Jzqan4DQ

Remember at that point, he thought Lois was insane. But when he saw Lois become Chloe in a matter of seconds then he believed.

I'm not knocking her influence in his life. I just think you give her too much credit. ;)

Storm45

06-14-2009, 05:58 PM

[Yet, that doesn't say she introduced him to journalism. She only first introduced him to the Wall of Weird in the pilot. It was implied she had it since she arrived a year earlier. Clark was already working at The Torch when he saw it the first time. Remember it was in a janitor closet first. Then for some reason, transfered to the Torch office.

:confused:

why are you talking about the WoW and how does that prove that she never introduced to journalism?
You think that Clark was there before? When did they implied such a thing? Chloe was the reporter in Clark's circle, way before she arrived in Smallville. She was the editor of Torch while Clark was interested in being part of the football team.

Whether Lois would have given him the application or not, Clark would have ended up at the Daily Planet. He worked there long before Chloe was even a figment of ALMILES imagination

Umm...no. Remember were are talking about Smallville. The TV show. Chloe worked at the DP before Clark. In Smallville. Because its Smallville we are talking about.

Whether Lois would have given him the application or not, Clark would have ended up at the Daily Planet. He worked there long before Chloe was even a figment of ALMILES imagination.

The fact that Lois gave him an application to be an intern is a twist on the classic mythos. It doesn't show in any way, shape or form that Chloe had anything to do with her decision to give it to him (other than her losing her job, opened up the spot) and it doesn't look like Chloe's "influence" had anything to do with him taking the job. MythosClark joined to be in on the action for Superman purposes. Clark told Lois this exact line ("I guess you can say I wanted to be in the middle of the action...") And he joined right after his conversation with Oliver, AC and Dinah. So if anything, I think they may have given him the extra nudge he needed to take the job, not Chloe.

Chloe was part of foundation to become a reporter. Of course there was other influence.

I'll be blunt and say that its complete nonsense to nullify character development of Smallville and just say that the event that occured there have no influence because it would have happen anyway due to the mythos.
On no, only Chloe's influence is nullified. Because its okay to say that his 1 minute convo with JLA and some quotes from Lois led him to join the DP but not the 7+ years he spent investigating with Chloe.

Actually, she did. In that episode, it was implied that Chloe and her family passed through Smallville at one point. How else would her mother have gotten a meteor infection in the first meteor shower

They were in a car en route to Grandville.

She was looking for the book because it was her favorite. And it just so happened it was when she just arrived in Smallville. She made the comment, more to show how mundane Smallville was compared to Metropolis.

Yes, it was her favorite and it talked about the unexplain. You don't favor a book that talk about things you don't care about. Right?

Her meteor rock theories came from all the weird crap that happened in town, that everyone had seemed to turn their faces away from. But after the pilot, its safe to say she wasn't the only one who noticed the weirdness.

From Craving. Episode 7 of season 1.

Clark: That's Chloe's hobby. She thinks she can trace all the freak things in Smallville to the meteor shower.

Lex: Interesting theory.

Clark: Most people think its crazy.

Her tally on meteor freaks? Um.. ok. I think its relatively the same as Lana's, Pete's and Clark's.

Pete, Lana and Clark have a files about every meteor freaks in Smallville? Like it was revealed Chloe had in Extinction in season 3? I missed this.

Which comment?

[QUOTE]Okay, I can't say I remember that scene. But that's about as relative as me saying I'd want an exclusive with the visitor. That really doesn't say much about what we're talking about.

Visitor. season 2:

Clark: Lana, what if Cyrus really could've proven he was an alien?

Lana: What do you mean?

Clark: I mean, how would you feel about him if he actually was from another planet?

Lana: Well, um... I guess I'd try and keep an open mind.

Clark: You'd never feel completely comfortable with him, would you?

Lana: I have to admit, I'd be a little freaked out. Does that make me a bad person?

-----------

Clark: You don't think he's really an alien, do you?

Chloe: No. But wouldn't it be awesome if he was, though?

Clark: Yeah, it'd be the story of the century, wouldn't it.

Chloe: This isn't about Pulitzers, Clark. I mean, can you imagine being from another planet? The experiences you could share?

Clark: It wouldn't freak you out?

Chloe: Compared to most people, I think aliens would be a step up.

The comaparaison was blatant.

I'm not knocking her influence in his life. I just think you give her too much credit.

Up to reaching and say that its the mythos who led him to the DP with a 1 minute convo with JL and a convo with Lois and denying the years he spent investigating with Chloe. You try to say without getting any facts that Clark was on a road to be a reporter before meeting Chloe, to deny her interest in the weird despite callbacks from this very season and every other season at that.

I just think you don't want to give her credit.

ginevrakent

06-14-2009, 06:04 PM

Whether Lois would have given him the application or not, Clark would have ended up at the Daily Planet. He worked there long before Chloe was even a figment of ALMILES imagination.

In that case, Clark would have become a journalist regardless of his interactions with Chloe or Lois.

Storm45

06-14-2009, 06:17 PM

In that case, Clark would have become a journalist regardless of his interactions with Chloe or Lois.

Those were Lilah's words. I badly placed the QUOTE sign.

ginevrakent

06-14-2009, 06:26 PM

Those were Lilah's words. I badly placed the QUOTE sign.

Okay :). Anyway, I always saw Clark's decision to become a journalist as purely the result of wanting to be in the middle of the action. I just think that over the course of the last year he actually has come to like it as a career.

Storm45

06-14-2009, 06:36 PM

Okay :). Anyway, I always saw Clark's decision to become a journalist as purely the result of wanting to be in the middle of the action. I just think that over the course of the last year he actually has come to like it as a career.

I think its a mix of many thing. I didn't meant that it was solely Chloe who led him in the DP.

But I think being used to be at the Torch, investigating, resolve mysteries and help others in the process are part of his natural progression to do the same at the DP. Chloe being the editor, who also investigate and found leads is part of that foundation.

In fact since season 2, Clark was already having an interest in journalism. That scene is from the episode Redux:

Lana: So where are you gonna be in five years?

Clark: In college, probably studying journalism.

Lana: You're kidding.

Clark: Don't tell Chloe, but I think it's growing on me. I like to find the truth behind things. I'm tired of having secrets in my life.

So it seems that working at the Torch sparked his interest in journalism and that the way he talked about it cement the fact that it was Chloe who was the first to be interested in that career field.

ginevrakent

06-14-2009, 06:42 PM

I think its a mix of many thing. I didn't meant that it was solely Chloe who led him in the DP.

I agree. I think Chloe was one of the many influences in Clark's life. It just irks me when Chloe seems to get all of the credit for things that actually were the result of a lot of different factors. I am not suggesting that you were doing this. For example, I think the influence of Clark's parents is constantly being ignored, especially when it comes to his moral code.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 06:43 PM

:confused:

why are you talking about the WoW and how does that prove that she never introduced to journalism?
You think that Clark was there before? When did they implied such a thing? Chloe was the reporter in Clark's circle, way before she arrived in Smallville. She was the editor of Torch while Clark was interested in being part of the football team.

Because in the pilot, Clark was already working at the Torch alongside Pete and Chloe. He could have decided to join for kicks or because he liked to write. Not necessarily cause Chloe influenced him. Did Chloe influence Pete too? Lana?

The one person I will give her credit for influencing is Lois Lane in Facade. Because that was written in the script.

Umm...no. Remember were are talking about Smallville. The TV show. Chloe worked at the DP before Clark. In Smallville. Because its Smallville we are talking about.

Smallville is a media of Superman. We all know where he would have ended up. But as it stands, on SMALLVILLE Lois Lane gave him the application and not Chloe Sullivan. And even when she did his words were "not gonna happen".

Chloe was part of foundation to become a reporter. Of course there was other influence.

I'll be blunt and say that its complete nonsense to nullify character development of Smallville and just say that the event that occured there have no influence because it would have happen anyway due to the mythos.
On no, only Chloe's influence is nullified. Because its okay to say that his 1 minute convo with JLA and some quotes from Lois led him to join the DP but not the 7+ years he spent investigating with Chloe.

Technically, she wasn't the only one he investigated with. He did so with Pete, Lana and Lois too. Like I said, I wasn't knocking her influence. I just don't think she was the main influence for him to become a reporter.

They were in a car en route to Grandville.

Was this actually said? I'm not going to say it wasn't cause I honestly don't remember.

Yes, it was her favorite and it talked about the unexplain. You don't favor a book that talk about things you don't care about. Right?

Chloe had a big imagination from childhood. Given. That still doesn't explain her influence on Clark.

From Craving. Episode 7 of season 1.

Clark: That's Chloe's hobby. She thinks she can trace all the freak things in Smallville to the meteor shower.

Lex: Interesting theory.

Clark: Most people think its crazy.

Exactly, my point. By this time Lex himself was interested in what was weird and unexplained and Clark was trying to steer people away from veering to close to the weird and unexplained in fear it'd lead to him.

Pete, Lana and Clark have a files about every meteor freaks in Smallville? Like it was revealed Chloe had in Extinction in season 3? I missed this.

Lana does at Isis. And Lex did with 33.1. The fact the Chloe got interested first doesn't mean much. Because in the grand scheme of things, it didn't affect Clark. Only when he needed her help in researching.
Which I think he needs to do more himself anyhow.

I think as a teenager she used to be interested in things that were hard to explain and abnormal. Then she grew up and realized that they were no longer unexplained. That was what her comment meant, in MY opinion.

Which comment?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WCe67s5YWQ

(It's the only link I found with that moment)

When they're talking about his gift, which happened to be that book. Things were weird and unexplained when she was 15. Then when she found out about Clark, everything changed. Suddenly, things were no longer that weird or unexplained.

Visitor. season 2:

Clark: Lana, what if Cyrus really could've proven he was an alien?

Lana: What do you mean?

Clark: I mean, how would you feel about him if he actually was from another planet?

Lana: Well, um... I guess I'd try and keep an open mind.

Clark: You'd never feel completely comfortable with him, would you?

Lana: I have to admit, I'd be a little freaked out. Does that make me a bad person?

Clark: You don't think he's really an alien, do you?

Chloe: No. But wouldn't it be awesome if he was, though?

Clark: Yeah, it'd be the story of the century, wouldn't it.

Chloe: This isn't about Pulitzers, Clark. I mean, can you imagine being from another planet? The experiences you could share?

Clark: It wouldn't freak you out?

Chloe: Compared to most people, I think aliens would be a step up.

The comaparaison was blatant.

And yet, that conversation is moot considering how Chloe and Lana both reacted. Chloe started living vicariously through Clark and Lana loved him more after finding out his secret.

Up to reaching and say that its the mythos who led him to the DP with a 1 minute convo with JL and a convo with Lois and denying the years he spent investigating with Chloe. You try to say without getting any facts that Clark was on a road to be a reporter before meeting Chloe, to deny her interest in the weird despite callbacks from this very season and every other season at that.

I didn't deny her interest for the weird. EVER. I just don't think her interest for the weird pushed him to become a reporter. In fact, he's at the Daily Planet and he isn't reporting on anything weird and unexplained. He's listening 24/7 to a police scanner and moonlighting as the Red Blue Blur.

I just think you don't want to give her credit.

I'll give credit where its due.;)

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

In that case, Clark would have become a journalist regardless of his interactions with Chloe or Lois.

I think he would have. I don't think either Chloe or Lois alone influenced him toward journalism.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

I think its a mix of many thing. I didn't meant that it was solely Chloe who led him in the DP.

But I think being used to be at the Torch, investigating, resolve mysteries and help others in the process are part of his natural progression to do the same at the DP. Chloe being the editor, who also investigate and found leads is part of that foundation.

In fact since season 2, Clark was already having an interest in journalism. That scene is from the episode Redux:

Lana: So where are you gonna be in five years?

Clark: In college, probably studying journalism.

Lana: You're kidding.

Clark: Don't tell Chloe, but I think it's growing on me. I like to find the truth behind things. I'm tired of having secrets in my life.

So it seems that working at the Torch sparked his interest in journalism and that the way he talked about it cement the fact that it was Chloe who was the first to be interested in that career field.

His reason for it was to find the truth.

Superman does stand for truth, justice and the American way:)

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----

I agree. I think Chloe was one of the many influences in Clark's life. It just irks me when Chloe seems to get all of the credit for things that actually were the result of a lot of different factors. I am not suggesting that you were doing this. For example, I think the influence of Clark's parents is constantly being ignored, especially when it comes to his moral code.

I think the earliest influence in his life were The Kents.

And I think everything that's happened in his life led him to the Daily Planet.

His parents teaching him to stand up for truth and justice.

Working with Chloe AND Pete AND Lana in high school at the Torch.

Saving his friend's behinds on more than one occasion.

Lex Luthor's shadiness

33.1

Oliver and the League

And then circumstances arose: Chloe got fired, he took her spot. He started out to be in on the action so he could be first on the scene and now he's finding that he's actually liking his job.

But at the end of the day, we really don't know who or what made Clark join the Torch. Until I see a flashback scene of Chloe actually inviting him to join, for all we know it could have been Pete. It could have been a teacher. It could have been his mom making a comment at Breakfast "about him being a good writer..."

Storm45

06-14-2009, 07:46 PM

Because in the pilot, Clark was already working at the Torch alongside Pete and Chloe. He could have decided to join for kicks or because he liked to write. Not necessarily cause Chloe influenced him. Did Chloe influence Pete too? Lana?

The one person I will give her credit for influencing is Lois Lane in Facade. Because that was written in the script.

But Clark, as you said ,was already working at the Torch in the Pilot meaning that Chloe did not influenced him. Yet Lois influenced Clark 4 years after in Facade? Isn't Chloe who embarked a reluctant Lois on the Torch as an extra curricular activity?

Smallville is a media of Superman. We all know where he would have ended up. But as it stands, on SMALLVILLE Lois Lane gave him the application and not Chloe Sullivan. And even when she did his words were "not gonna happen

Still he had thought about being a reporter since season 2.

Technically, she wasn't the only one he investigated with. He did so with Pete, Lana and Lois too. Like I said, I wasn't knocking her influence. I just don't think she was the main influence for him to become a reporter.

I think otherwise. Lana, Pete and Lois (prior to season 6) were not in the reporting business like Chloe and did not investigate as frequently as he did with Chloe. What's next. Shelby also influenced him?

Exactly, my point. By this time Lex himself was interested in what was weird and unexplained and Clark was trying to steer people away from veering to close to the weird and unexplained in fear it'd lead to him.

Chloe had a big imagination from childhood. Given. That still doesn't explain her influence on Clark.

Lana does at Isis. And Lex did with 33.1. The fact the Chloe got interested first doesn't mean much. Because in the grand scheme of things, it didn't affect Clark. Only when he needed her help in researching.
Which I think he needs to do more himself anyhow.

My point was that Chloe's interest in the weird helped her embrace and accept Clark being an alien and be okay with him having superpowers. She saw his powers as gifts and thought it was great that he used it to help others. Which must have been a great encouragment to him. Have you seen such a scene with Lex?
In the early years it was used as a foil to Lana and Clark's desire of normalcy.

Was this actually said? I'm not going to say it wasn't cause I honestly don't remember.
It was part of the script of Progeny. But they cut the part where they explained how it happened. Chloe and mom were about to visit her grandparents in Granville when the meteor shower happened.

And yet, that conversation is moot considering how Chloe and Lana both reacted. Chloe started living vicariously through Clark and Lana loved him more after finding out his secret.

And yet, for years, Clark always thought that Lana would not accept him. As for Chloe being the one living vicariously... It wasn't her who decided to sport a power suit to be like Clark.

didn't deny her interest for the weird. EVER. I just don't think her interest for the weird pushed him to become a reporter. In fact, he's at the Daily Planet and he isn't reporting on anything weird and unexplained. He's listening 24/7 to a police scanner and moonlighting as the Red Blue Blur.

I never said Chloe's interest for the unexplain was what led him to reporting. Its her own interest to reporting who was one of his influences.

I'll give credit where its due.

As I do myself.

His reason for it was to find the truth.

Superman does stand for truth, justice and the American way

It was growing on him . How did it grow? Because he did that activity. In the Torch. With Chloe. The only character at the time who was really interested in this career. Not Pete, Lana, Lex, Jor-EL or some extra. Chloe Sullivan.
----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

But at the end of the day, we really don't know who or what made Clark join the Torch. Until I see a flashback scene of Chloe actually inviting him to join, for all we know it could have been Pete. It could have been a teacher. It could have been his mom making a comment at Breakfast "about him being a good writer..."

Or the devil made him to it. Anything as long as it doesn't point out to Chloe.

----- Added 9 Minutes later -----

I agree. I think Chloe was one of the many influences in Clark's life. It just irks me when Chloe seems to get all of the credit for things that actually were the result of a lot of different factors. I am not suggesting that you were doing this. For example, I think the influence of Clark's parents is constantly being ignored, especially when it comes to his moral code.

I understand and I do think that his parents influence is undeniable. Why is it ignored now? Maybe its the ''out of sight, out of mind'' mentality. Or how the other characters seems now to try to tell Clark what course of action he should be doing.

Lilah

06-14-2009, 08:51 PM

But Clark, as you said ,was already working at the Torch in the Pilot meaning that Chloe did not influenced him. Yet Lois influenced Clark 4 years after in Facade? Isn't Chloe who embarked a reluctant Lois on the Torch as an extra curricular activity?

Lois influenced him to geto to DP, yeah, considering she gave him the application. She didn't influence him into journalism.

Still he had thought about being a reporter since season 2.

I still don't think that proves Chloe is his influence into journalism.

I think otherwise. Lana, Pete and Lois (prior to season 6) were not in the reporting business like Chloe and did not investigate as frequently as he did with Chloe. What's next. Shelby also influenced him?

I think Chloe influenced Lois to get into journalism more than she influenced Clark to be honest.

My point was that Chloe's interest in the weird helped her embrace and accept Clark being an alien and be okay with him having superpowers. She saw his powers as gifts and thought it was great that he used it to help others. Which must have been a great encouragment to him. Have you seen such a scene with Lex?
In the early years it was used as a foil to Lana and Clark's desire of normalcy.

I agree. It helped to accept him and who he was.

It was part of the script of Progeny. But they cut the part where they explained how it happened. Chloe and mom were about to visit her grandparents in Granville when the meteor shower happened.

It's not even a deleted scene. How'd you find out it was on the script?

And yet, for years, Clark always thought that Lana would not accept him. As for Chloe being the one living vicariously... It wasn't her who decided to sport a power suit to be like Clark.

Clark's biggest fear was that no one would accept him, even Chloe. He knew her for 5 years before he told her his secret.

I think they both live vicariously through him to different extents.

I never said Chloe's interest for the unexplain was what led him to reporting. Its her own interest to reporting who was one of his influences.

Why can't it just be his interest in reporting and finding the truth that influenced him to become a reporter?

As I do myself.

It all comes down to a matter of opinion in the end.

It was growing on him . How did it grow? Because he did that activity. In the Torch. With Chloe. The only character at the time who was really interested in this career. Not Pete, Lana, Lex, Jor-EL or some extra. Chloe Sullivan.

He also did it with Pete and Lana. What I'm trying to say is that Chloe and Clark weren't the Torch's only reporters..

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

Or the devil made him to it. Anything as long as it doesn't point out to Chloe.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I'm just saying that it may or may not have been Chloe. Personally, I think it was all him that made him go to journalism.

I understand and I do think that his parents influence is undeniable. Why is it ignored now? Maybe its the ''out of sight, out of mind'' mentality. Or how the other characters seems now to try to tell Clark what course of action he should be doing.

See, in my opinion The Kent's are the first and foremost important influences in Clark Kent's life. They raised him and made him the man he is today. Not Lois, not Chloe, not Lana, not Lex, not Pete.

Everyone around him influenced his decisions in one way or another. But the biggest influence in his life is definitely the man and woman that raised him as their own. Just my opinion. I really hold high the Kent Family relationship on Smallville.

SGuthrie27

06-14-2009, 10:43 PM

Wow, I just happened to check out this forum 'cause it'd been a while since I'd checked up on people's comments regarding "Doomsday," and I was rather pleasantly surprised to find such a logical, rational, and interesting exchange going on about the different influences Clark has had on his life and which ones were most pivotal in leading him in particular directions.

I'll go ahead and toss in my two cents on the matter while hopefully not retreading lots of old ground that you all have already covered.

First of all, I do believe that Chloe was PROBABLY Clark's FIRST experience with journalism, and it probably gave him quite a bit of his initial curiosity/interest in the field. Sure, he was interested in investigating things a bit himself, i.e. space/astronomy, reading about things, looking up people who did amazing feats on his computer, etc., but Chloe was probably the first IMPORTANT stepping stone that led him to that future career. She constantly urged him to help her out on the Torch, and became frustrated yet tried to remain persistent when he let other priorities get in the way of his responsibilities there, e.g. in "Witness" and "Devoted." She was the model for him of what a journalism was and how much they could find out and do. Most every time they'd research a meteor freak, she'd lead the way in checking up on various articles and giving him key facts that helped him put the pieces together of what was going on in Smallville and, on many occasions, how to put a stop to the weekly "reigns of terror" that were occurring.

Were there other influences for Clark's journalism? I think there definitely were. He got a taste of it through journalism conferences and seminars (he went to one with Chloe after "Crush," remember?), Lois was another BIG push by seeing all that she was involved with, first on the staff of the "Inquisitor" and later "The Daily Planet." And then yes, of course, she gave him the application and several verbal shoves in the right direction. I don't discount her part in Clark's career move at all.

I just have to say that Chloe was almost definitely the FIRST major influence on that career path.

You also brought up some good points, Lilah, about other people being responsible for the development of Clark's moral code. I completely agree with you that his adoptive parents, Jonathan and Martha Kent, would be the main people who had raised him to make the kinds of choices he still makes on the show now, and who ingrained in him strong moral values and a belief in the potential for good in everyone. Without them, Clark wouldn't end up being Superman, I don't think, at least not the model of truth, justice, and the American way that we all know him to be in the comics and movies today. Many others taught him life lessons that he carried with him, including Lois, Lex, Lana, Pete, Lionel, and even some of the other more minor heroes, and even occasionally villains, that Clark met along the way, but his folks will undoubtedly always be the most major "magnetic force" on his innate "moral compass."

Chloe had some influence on Clark in this area as well, though. At first, we didn't witness much of it, but once she knew his secret and he revealed the full truth to her, we had LOADS of examples in which she spurred him on to do the right thing or gave him a much-needed pep talk at the perfect moment. When he was on the verge of breaking down or making a huge, tough decision, Chloe was always there to remind him of what was important, and how important he was, and would be in the future, due to the symbol of hope that he represents. In Seasons 7 and 8, this role would become even more important, as both Jonathan and Martha were out of the picture. Chloe became Clark's sole confidant, most loyal friend and companion, and chief advocate, and I love all the times that she's urged him to be the best that he can be. Again, I'm not trying to say that she's solely responsible for Clark's development as a hero, but she's definitely been one of the people who have been most important in pointing him in the right direction, probably right behind the Kents at this point.

Finally, I have to say, once again, how much I DO appreciate the fact that Chloe Sullivan is still alive and an important, thriving part of the Smallville universe. She consistently demonstrates the character traits that show that she is, and always will be, one of Clark's most loyal and true friends and confidantes, and in the realm of Smallville, she always will be. LONG LIVE CHLOE SULLIVAN!!!!!!!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

IloveClark

06-14-2009, 10:47 PM

I didn't want Jimmy dead but if I had to choose between him and Chloe I'd chose Chloe to live.She's my favorite character next to Clark.

Storm45

06-14-2009, 10:49 PM

First of all, I do believe that Chloe was PROBABLY Clark's FIRST experience with journalism, and it probably gave him quite a bit of his initial curiosity/interest in the field. Sure, he was interested in investigating things a bit himself, i.e. space/astronomy, reading about things, looking up people who did amazing feats on his computer, etc., but Chloe was probably the first IMPORTANT stepping stone that led him to that future career. She constantly urged him to help her out on the Torch, and became frustrated yet tried to remain persistent when he let other priorities get in the way of his responsibilities there, e.g. in "Witness" and "Devoted." She was the model for him of what a journalism was and how much they could find out and do. Most every time they'd research a meteor freak, she'd lead the way in checking up on various articles and giving him key facts that helped him put the pieces together of what was going on in Smallville and, on many occasions, how to put a stop to the weekly "reigns of terror" that were occurring.

Were there other influences for Clark's journalism? I think there definitely were. He got a taste of it through journalism conferences and seminars (he went to one with Chloe after "Crush," remember?), Lois was another BIG push by seeing all that she was involved with, first on the staff of the "Inquisitor" and later "The Daily Planet." And then yes, of course, she gave him the application and several verbal shoves in the right direction. I don't discount her part in Clark's career move at all.

I just have to say that Chloe was almost definitely the FIRST major influence on that career path.

That sums everything I wanted to say.:) Great post by the way.

It's not even a deleted scene. How'd you find out it was on the script?

Because it was included in the first spoilers of Progeny.

Reporter

06-15-2009, 02:59 AM

Actually in the season 8 finale, that's the impression left. That Chloe and Clark's friendship is no longer the same it was in previous years.....The relationship between Clark/anybody was not left the same at the end of Doomsday considering that Clark left and kind of gave up on humanity because of what happened with Davis.

I know that some fans blame Chloe for Jimmy and lots of other things, but I never saw Clark blame Chloe. I don't think he does. He was the one originally arguing to save Davis, so I guess it would come off a tad hypocritical if he did.

Since Chloe is going to be part of Season 9, and my guess is quite a large part - then it's hard for me to believe they wont bring the friendship back full force. It's a draw for a number of fans, and I think that they know this.

This is how I see it: Chloe is one of Clark's best friendsI disagree that she is one of. In my opinion she is the best friend.

After the article that Lois wrote in "Infamous", two people that read it referred to Chloe as "the alien's best friend." As in the only one. So this is either Lois's impression or Clark's words. Either way, I think it says a lot and matches up with what I see.

She didn't actually remind him. It wasn't until she changed right before his eyes that he believed. Not according to Clark:

"I couldn't have done it without you. Thank you for reminding me who I really am."

And watching the scene - her words begin to affect him, and then after he sees her change back to her real self, and hearing/seeing Chloe say he can do it, that is when he does it.

Storm45

06-15-2009, 07:56 AM

RedKRules

06-15-2009, 09:43 AM

Labyrinth was so good *sigh*!! :)

ginevrakent

06-15-2009, 11:43 AM

Chloe is always there to remind Clark who he really is and stands against his desire to give up to be normal.

I agree. I think that Chloe often helps Clark see the value of his abilities. However, I think that Lois roots Clark in humanity. I don't mean to say that she is like Lana in that she makes Clark want to be normal and nothing else (at least until Lana got the powersuit). Lois, especially with the introduction of the RBB, allows Clark to be both normal and special. This is actually a traditional quality of the Lois and Clark relationship. In several Superman stories, without Lois Lane in his life, Superman loses Clark completely.* When Lois dies, Clark dies with her. So, I think that both Lois and Chloe play a valuable role in Clark's life. Chloe inspires Clark the hero while Lois connects him to humanity.

*Links to comics for reference:

Kingdom Come

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg)
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg)

Doomsday (courtesty of Zinger at DI)

http://i39.tinypic.com/wuhs1u.jpg (http://i39.tinypic.com/wuhs1u.jpg)
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Dustmite

06-15-2009, 11:48 AM

Also in Labyrinth when Clark and Chloe were in a mental institution in an AU and everybody (Lana, Martha and Lex) said he was crazy human being with no powers. Lana wanted Clark to go through a treatment. Clark himself was starting to doubt himself and its Chloe who tried to tell him that he was right all along and that he was truly an alien:

Chloe: Now, don't ditch your sidekick till you get your powers back. You might need me to cover you.
Clark: I'm glad to see you, Chloe. I was beginning to think I was actually losing it.

Later when its all over:

Clark: .The important part is... you were the one person who believed in me. I don't know what I'd do without you, Chloe.

Chloe: Oh, is this when I'm supposed to cue the Barry Manilow music?

Clark: No, seriously. You mean a lot more to me than you know.

Chloe is always there to remind Clark who he really is and stands against his desire to give up to be normal.

I did rather adore that scene as well as the scene where Clark crumples against the wall after learning that Chloe is dead.

As for journalism and Chloe's influence. It was the reason her character was there or so say TPTB, his link to that wprld and as it was shown in Devoted for one, she often encouraged him to continue, not to give up on the torch, that he could do that and whatever else he desired too.

ginevrakent

06-15-2009, 12:07 PM

As for journalism and Chloe's influence. It was the reason her character was there or so say TPTB, his link to that wprld and as it was shown in Devoted for one, she often encouraged him to continue, not to give up on the torch, that he could do that and whatever else he desired too.

I've always liked how Clark and Lois's stories are paralleled somewhat in this regard, as Chloe served to encourage and link both of them to journalism (she mainly encouraged Lois in S4). She's even sort of done this with the little boy who apparently is the real Jimmy Olsen. It's cool that she's a bridge to the mythos despite not being mythos herself.

RedKRules

06-15-2009, 12:11 PM

I did rather adore that scene as well as the scene where Clark crumples against the wall after learning that Chloe is dead.

As for journalism and Chloe's influence. It was the reason her character was there or so say TPTB, his link to that wprld and as it was shown in Devoted for one, she often encouraged him to continue, not to give up on the torch, that he could do that and whatever else he desired too.

I loved also that she taught him about Journalism integrity on that episode where she chose to support that other kid as Class President than Clark, it shows that she knows to set the differences between their friendship from doing the right logical thing...:)

Lilah

06-15-2009, 12:30 PM

I agree. I think that Chloe often helps Clark see the value of his abilities. However, I think that Lois roots Clark in humanity. I don't mean to say that she is like Lana in that she makes Clark want to be normal and nothing else (at least until Lana got the powersuit). Lois, especially with the introduction of the RBB, allows Clark to be both normal and special. This is actually a traditional quality of the Lois and Clark relationship. In several Superman stories, without Lois Lane in his life, Superman loses Clark completely.* When Lois dies, Clark dies with her. So, I think that both Lois and Chloe play a valuable role in Clark's life. Chloe inspires Clark the hero while Lois connects him to humanity.

*Links to comics for reference:

Kingdom Come

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg)
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg)

Doomsday (courtesty of Zinger at DI)

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http://i39.tinypic.com/2jd0rqt.jpg (http://i39.tinypic.com/2jd0rqt.jpg)

I think Lois encourages him to a hero too. But she definitely connects him to humanity.

Wow, those scans remind me why Clois is so epic. I'd forgotten thanks to Smallville. So thank you. I needed that:D

ginevrakent

06-15-2009, 12:36 PM

I think Lois encourages him to a hero too. But she definitely connects him to humanity.

Wow, those scans remind me why Clois is so epic. I'd forgotten thanks to Smallville. So thank you. I needed that:D

You're welcome :), and I agree that Lois is uniquely capable of supporting the many sides of Clark Kent.

That being said, while I'm largely indifferent to Chloe's continued existence, coming from Clark's perspective, I'm glad that he still has his BFF this year. I'm also excited to see how Chloe performs as Watchtower. So I suppose her survival isn't a total wash.

Lilah

06-15-2009, 02:11 PM

You're welcome :), and I agree that Lois is uniquely capable of supporting the many sides of Clark Kent.

That being said, while I'm largely indifferent to Chloe's continued existence, coming from Clark's perspective, I'm glad that he still has his BFF this year. I'm also excited to see how Chloe performs as Watchtower. So I suppose her survival isn't a total wash.

The only thing that will make me like Chloe Sullivan in s9 is if the writers don't brush the Doomsday arc under the rug and she owns up to her mistakes rather than keep circling them. I want her to VERBALLY admit that she was wrong about Davis Bloom.

RedKRules

06-15-2009, 02:27 PM

So I suppose her survival isn't a total wash.

IMO, it never were, it never will be.

Storm45

06-15-2009, 02:58 PM

I agree. I think that Chloe often helps Clark see the value of his abilities. However, I think that Lois roots Clark in humanity. I don't mean to say that she is like Lana in that she makes Clark want to be normal and nothing else (at least until Lana got the powersuit). Lois, especially with the introduction of the RBB, allows Clark to be both normal and special. This is actually a traditional quality of the Lois and Clark relationship. In several Superman stories, without Lois Lane in his life, Superman loses Clark completely.* When Lois dies, Clark dies with her. So, I think that both Lois and Chloe play a valuable role in Clark's life. Chloe inspires Clark the hero while Lois connects him to humanity.

*Links to comics for reference:

Kingdom Come

http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial5.jpg)
http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg (http://i411.photobucket.com/albums/pp192/cls1983/KingdomComeSpecial6.jpg)

Doomsday (courtesty of Zinger at DI)

http://i39.tinypic.com/wuhs1u.jpg (http://i39.tinypic.com/wuhs1u.jpg)
http://i43.tinypic.com/33peb5x.jpg (http://i43.tinypic.com/33peb5x.jpg)
http://i42.tinypic.com/rbkv3m.jpg (http://i42.tinypic.com/rbkv3m.jpg)
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The Kingdom Come scans... its truly sad and beautiful at the same time. Its a nice parallel to Doomsday.

So, I think that both Lois and Chloe play a valuable role in Clark's life. Chloe inspires Clark the hero while Lois connects him to humanity.

I agree. I even think they each can do both. But each in a different way.

ginevrakent

06-15-2009, 03:00 PM

The only thing that will make me like Chloe Sullivan in s9 is if the writers don't brush the Doomsday arc under the rug and she owns up to her mistakes rather than keep circling them. I want her to VERBALLY admit that she was wrong about Davis Bloom.

I agree, that would certainly be a start.

IMO, it never were, it never will be.

That was my opinion, too :). It's precisely why I said her survival wasn't a total bummer to me. Chloe has the possibility to gain back a lot of her lustre in her final season, so I'm kind of optimistic that I'll get a chance to see that and hopefully what will be a very well-crafted send off for her special character.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

The Kingdom Come scans... its truly sad and beautiful at the same time. Its a nice parallel to Doomsday.

I felt the same way when I first came across them.

I agree. I even think they each can do both. But each in a different way.

I can respect that point of view. That's what's so great about Lois and Chloe, they are two special girls with the capacity to not only do great things on their own, but also to be great influences on the people that they care about like Clark Kent.

It must be something in the Sullivan-Lane genes. It makes me wonder sometimes what their grandmother was like (who is played by Noel Neill in my imagination, btw). On a little side note, I think Clark's been a great influence and support for the cousins as well.

ox007

06-15-2009, 03:24 PM

Chloe holds Clark back, it's been discussed on various threads and explained why. In S8 fortunately Clark worked on his own on many occasions and was close to Lois, but Chloe acted so foolishly, that means there is no place for her in Chloeville, uhm I mean Smallville. :) if they don't do something useful with her in S9 (outside of CK's life that is) she's done (by the way the show is about Clark, so outside CK's life means - on offscreenville anyhow) :lol:

Night_Hawk90

06-15-2009, 03:51 PM

Canary

06-15-2009, 03:58 PM

I Sorta Appreciate shes alive... sorta..

Dustmite

06-15-2009, 04:01 PM

Chloe holds Clark back, it's been discussed on various threads and explained why.

And? It can be discussed just about anywhere but it doesn't make it true.

Lilah

06-15-2009, 04:31 PM

And? It can be discussed just about anywhere but it doesn't make it true.

Chloe never held Clark back, until Turbulence. Then after that episode to Doomsday it can in fact be argued that she did hold him back.

In Turbulence, after he saved Tess from a falling plane, she tells him to put the RBB back in the closet and quit his job at the Daily Planet.

In Eternal, she doesn't tell him that she's hiding Davis Bloomsday in her basement. But tries to kill him, thus actually making him stronger.

In Beast, she stops Clark from sending Davis to the Phantom Zone setting in motion everyone's fate for the finale.

So yeah, ever since Turbulence, she holds him back and made him regress back into a lost little boy in need of guidance.

Basically, Chloe has taken over Lana's role in Clark's life.

RedKRules

06-15-2009, 04:45 PM

ginevrakent

06-15-2009, 05:43 PM

Chloe never held Clark back, until Turbulence. Then after that episode to Doomsday it can in fact be argued that she did hold him back.

In Turbulence, after he saved Tess from a falling plane, she tells him to put the RBB back in the closet and quit his job at the Daily Planet.

In Eternal, she doesn't tell him that she's hiding Davis Bloomsday in her basement. But tries to kill him, thus actually making him stronger.

In Beast, she stops Clark from sending Davis to the Phantom Zone setting in motion everyone's fate for the finale.

So yeah, ever since Turbulence, she holds him back and made him regress back into a lost little boy in need of guidance.

Basically, Chloe has taken over Lana's role in Clark's life.

ITA.

However, I think that overall Chloe is a positive rather than a negative influence on Clark's life. Sometimes it ebbs and flows as to which aspect--the positive or negative--is winning out, IMHO.

bluewolv1970

06-15-2009, 06:04 PM

Believe me you were not the first and won´t be the last one that come will up with these brilliant coments.;)

Long Live Chloe Sullivan :D

yeah you know i totally agree

Lilah

06-15-2009, 07:26 PM

ITA.

However, I think that overall Chloe is a positive rather than a negative influence on Clark's life. Sometimes it ebbs and flows as to which aspect--the positive or negative--is winning out, IMHO.

The positive may outweigh the negative. But the negative is what the audience remembers.;)

Reporter

06-16-2009, 01:45 AM

Chloe inspires Clark the hero while Lois connects him to humanity.I agree that Lois connects him to humanity, but I think Chloe is the one who does this the most at this point - how can she not as someone he loves, his best friend? JMO.

In Turbulence, after he saved Tess from a falling plane, she tells him to put the RBB back in the closet and quit his job at the Daily Planet.Although he disagreed, and didn't do it. He was able to just disagree and make up his own mind. How does that count?

In Eternal, she doesn't tell him that she's hiding Davis Bloomsday in her basement. But tries to kill him, thus actually making him stronger.
And this one - I wouldn't classify it as Chloe holding Clark back. But to each their own, I guess.

ox007

06-16-2009, 05:21 AM

From the day Chloe learned CK's secret she has been becoming his brain. Clark at one point couldn't do anything without Chloe, sure it's Clark's fault too, but during first 4 seasons he was doing great without her, he was smart and progressive, the regression started from season 5 till the end of season 7 and that's a fact Jack :) not only Chloe was Clark's brain making him her sidekick not the other way around, but also she was lecturing him on every occasion, telling him what is the right thing to do and what is wrong, meaning she didn't believe he would make right choices. Besides, who is she to tell him right from wrong? She ain't no saint and she ain't his mother or father either. Her place in SV is no more.

MOD EDIT

And here's a disclaimer: I do not hate Chloe, I am not a shipper and I treat Smallville only as a TV show so I never get emotional when talking about the show MOD EDIT

Cheers! :)

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 10:47 AM

I agree that Lois connects him to humanity, but I think Chloe is the one who does this the most at this point - how can she not as someone he loves, his best friend? JMO.

IA.
Chloe has done way before ..... she even knew about Clark's secret :D ...

Although he disagreed, and didn't do it. He was able to just disagree and make up his own mind. How does that count?

You know sometimes people conveniently forget about this little details, Chlark Team have always worked like this, Chloe is NOT Clark's brain, they bounce ideas together and decide what is better for that situation.

And this one - I wouldn't classify it as Chloe holding Clark back. But to each their own, I guess.

IMO she is not..... that wonderful prize goes to the BEST STALLING WRITING OF HISTORY ... SV's writers.

Lilah

06-16-2009, 11:29 AM

I agree that Lois connects him to humanity, but I think Chloe is the one who does this the most at this point - how can she not as someone he loves, his best friend? JMO.

Chloe connects him so much to humanity, that he was talking about her when he told her he has no home and that his faith in humanity is gone. She's not the one missing in the season finale is she? I think Chloe's place in Clark's life, just took a downfall. In the past she may have been his bff and link to humanity and side kick or whatever. But after Doomsday, they've grown apart. That's how the show is being written. All we can hope is that they find middle ground again in s9, since it might be AM's last. Cause if they don't, then her character's demise will be tragic instead of happy.

Although he disagreed, and didn't do it. He was able to just disagree and make up his own mind. How does that count?

Thank God he made up his own mind for once! It still counts because she said it. She was trying to tell him what to do. And to me that is the same thing that Lana Lang always did in the past.

And this one - I wouldn't classify it as Chloe holding Clark back. But to each their own, I guess.

How does not letting him get rid of the villain because of her feelings, not count as holding him back?

Well, if that doesn't then her little monologue definitely does. Chloe held him back from doing what he was supposed to do to defeat Doomsday. Rokk even says that in a way.

Rokk: When you saved Chloe's life, you saved her connection to Doomsday. She stopped you from sending him to the phantom zone, she made him invulnerable by trying to kill him with kryptonite. And now because of Chloe, you cannot defeat him.

To me it sounds like Rokk put a lot of the blame of what happens in Doomsday on Chloe.... :rolleyes:

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

IA.
Chloe has done way before ..... she even knew about Clark's secret :D ...

Because Alicia told her. Not because Clark did. He just confirms it later on, because how is he supposed to explain an ice fortress in the frozen tundra....

The only person in Smallville he's told voluntarilly, even though he takes it back, is actually Lois.

You know sometimes people conveniently forget about this little details, Chlark Team have always worked like this, Chloe is NOT Clark's brain, they bounce ideas together and decide what is better for that situation.

Yeah, they totally came to an agreement about not sending Davis to the Phantom Zone. I must have missed that part. It wasn't until Chloe's little monologue in the Fortress (that she broke into in my opinion, by stealing the key in the first place) that he decided to find another way to save Davis.

Which by the way, backfired and now he's gone because of it. Chloe is Clark's brain sometimes. And everytime she is, he makes a dumb decision.

IMO she is not..... that wonderful prize goes to the BEST STALLING WRITING OF HISTORY ... SV's writers.

I agree, the writers that stall his development are to blame completely. But you can't deny that Chloe is the character currently being used to stall Clark's progression. :)

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 11:49 AM

I agree that Lois connects him to humanity, but I think Chloe is the one who does this the most at this point - how can she not as someone he loves, his best friend? JMO.

I understand that this is your point of view, and I respect that. However, can you explain exactly how Chloe serves as Clark's link to humanity? I ask because I've seen several examples of when she connects him to his superhuman side (Mortal, Hidden, Labyrinth, Hex), but not his human side. I also don't quite understand why there has to be some sort of competition as to who has linked Clark to humanity "the most," since I believe that everything from his parents, to Lois (whom he also loves and considers a best friend), and his home planet have kept him grounded to humanity.

I'm just curious because if Chloe really was his supreme link to humanity as you describe, why wasn't her existence enough at the end of Doomsday to keep him from fully embracing his alien side? Like I demonstrated with the scans from the comic Kingdom Come, whenever Lois has died, Clark Kent dies with her.

There are also these quotes from individuals involved in Smallville and the comics:

Mark Verheiden (Worked on Superman comics and Smallville)
From Smallville to Metropolis: Verheiden Talks "Superman" (Dave Richards, April 1, 2005)

Verheiden feels another essential trait of Superman is the importance of the marriage between Clark Kent and Lois Lane. "She's great for Superman because where Superman is I think a tad on the reserved side, (She's headstrong where Superman may not be. She is willing to go to places that Superman may not) which is interesting given that he's a guy who can look to the end of the universe, she brings a sense of humanity to him," Verheiden explained. "Their marriage is what grounds him to humanity and mankind. Without that he's basically an alien on Earth."

Source: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=4917 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=4917)

Man of Steel writer Mark Schultz on Lois Lane
Scribe of Steel: talking with 'Man of Steel' writer Mark Schultz (Arune Singh, March 12, 2002)

"The relationship between Superman/Clark Kent and Lois Lane is, of course, the core of any Superman book," explains Schultz when asked to share his perspective on the MOS cast. "Lois is a mortal who has been chosen by a being who is essentially a god -- a being who could probably get any woman, mortal or immortal, he wanted. So Lois must bring something very important to the relationship -- she is Superman's ground. She keeps him in complete touch with the world of average, mortal humans. She keeps him human. And she is our conduit into the world of Superman -- we can identify more with mortal Lois than we can with godlike Superman. [...] Lois is the perfect compliment to both Clark and Superman.

Source: http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=944 (http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=944)

LOS ANGELES COMIC BOOK AND SCIENCE FICTION CONVENTION
Al Gough, FEBRUARY 12, 2007

Gough enjoys the current version of Lois because "she's the only one who doesn't treat Clark like he walks on water."

I think Lois is in an unique position to be both one of Clark's links to humanity, but also his link to Superman. She helps him feel normal and special in the way she interacts differently with "Clark Kent" and the "RBB/Superman." She draws both sides out and loves both sides without even knowing that the two are connected.

So I'm glad Chloe's alive because I think she'll continue to inspire superheroes like Clark Kent and the current members of the nascent Justice League. I think she'll even play a role in reigniting Clark's belief in his own humanity and the human race. However, I don't agree that she is the one "most" capable of doing this, as it seems that Lois Lane is crucial as well.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 11:54 AM

The problem Libby is that the producers said a LOT of things throughout the years, but failed to SHOW or SHOWED too little onscreenville. But I understand your POV. :)

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 11:59 AM

The problem Libby is that the producers said a LOT of things throughout the years, but failed to SHOW or SHOWED too little onscreenville. But I understand your POV. :)

Thanks for the understanding, Kelly :). The only producer comment I included, though was the one from Al Gough saying that Lois doesn't treat Clark as if he walks on water, which I think we can all agree is true. All the other quotes came from comic book writers who are describing how, in their view, other Lois Lanes have grounded Clark to humanity. Since I see similarities between what they are saying about comics Lois and Clark and Smallville Lois and Clark, I was illustrating how I view Lois's role in linking Clark to humanity as being somewhat analagous. That was my synthesis of the information, in other words.

Anyway, the producers fail to show a lot of things and one of them, in my view, has been how Chloe is Clark's link to humanity, which was why I was perplexed by Reporter's comment. I'm not saying that Chloe doesn't have a role to play in this regard, but she's not the only, the best, or the most capable of achieving this, IMHO.

Lilah

06-16-2009, 12:13 PM

^The producers may not show a lot of things. But they didn't fail at showing Lois being Clark's link to humanity at the end of Doomsday. Unless, he was talking about Jimmy....

IloveClark

06-16-2009, 12:17 PM

Chloe's never held him back she's the one who always encouraged him to be somebody.Lana was the one holding him back.

BadToad

06-16-2009, 12:24 PM

Dominicus

06-16-2009, 12:27 PM

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 12:30 PM

IMHO Clark does need link with humanity, he needs to feel/know/comprehend what is like to be human If he wants to help them ....otherwise he will just do it for pure obligation ....

Superman's love for mankind is what keeps him from being a dictator.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 12:34 PM

Personally, I don't think ANY character needs to act as Clark's link to humanity, or heroics. Clark has those qualities within him. Everyone in Clark's life that he cares about is a link to humanity for him in the grand scheme of things. But Clark is often the most human character of them all, IMO. As for Clark's heroic side, thats something thats inately Clark. He's been showing that quality from the beginning of the show. He doesn't need anyone to inspire it, and he shouldn't need anyone to point him in the right direction and send him out there to do good like he's a trained dog. Clark heroic side is something that needs to be inspired by humanity in general, not any one person. JMO

When a character on the show starts to get credit for Clark being a hero, or Clark having human compassion, then I think the writing is failing bigtime, and needs to be adjusted. JMO

I completely agree. I hope my post above didn't give the impression that I think Lois or Chloe are solely responsible for who Clark/Superman is or who he will become. I think I mentioned that Lois, for example, is just one of the links Clark has to humanity along with the Kents, Chloe, Jimmy, and even the citizens of Metropolis. These people also inspire him to be a hero because Clark can see the heroism in the small things humans do for each other every day, which is something he articulated in his letter he wanted Lois to publish in Doomsday.

I do think that despite the influences these people have on Clark's life, he is ultimately responsible for his own choices. He is a hero because he chooses to be hero, because it is a part of who he is. He is also capable of human emotion and rejects the desire to be a god not only because he was grounded by his parents and because of the love of his friends, but also because it is not in his nature to desire power.

BadToad

06-16-2009, 12:34 PM

Clark does need link with humanity, he needs to feel/know/comprehend what is like to be human If he wants to help them ....otherwise he will just do it for pure obligation ....

Superman's love for humans is what keeps him from being a dictator.

And as I said, everyone in Clark's life that he's close to helps to establish this link, as well as Clark's compassion for humans in general.

Clark was raised as a human. He's been immersed in the human world all of his life. He thinks like a human. He has all those qualities within himself. He knows how it feels to be human. If he just landed on Earth a year ago, I'd agree that he more strongly needs a guide. But he didn't. He landed on Earth 20 years ago, and has lived in the human world his whole life.

His parents, Chloe, Lois, Lana, Oliver, Lex, Shelby, Pete, Alicia....and so on, and so forth, have all helped to bond him to humanity. But not one of them deserves the credit, or burden, for Clark's own humanity.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 12:45 PM

And as I said, everyone in Clark's life that he's close to helps to establish this link, as well as Clark's compassion for humans in general.

Clark was raised as a human. He's been immersed in the human world all of his life. He thinks like a human. He has all those qualities within himself. He knows how it feels to be human. If he just landed on Earth a year ago, I'd agree that he more strongly needs a guide. But he didn't. He landed on Earth 20 years ago, and has lived in the human world his whole life.

His parents, Chloe, Lois, Lana, Oliver, Lex, Shelby, Pete, Alicia....and so on, and so forth, have all helped to bond him to humanity. But not one of them deserves the credit, or burden, for Clark's own humanity.

I was just speaking in general .... I was not talking about any certain character ...... at all.

Superman love all the humanity, not only the close ones around him .... that is what I was trying to say, there I think I made myself clearer now.

Storm45

06-16-2009, 01:57 PM

Anyway, the producers fail to show a lot of things and one of them, in my view, has been how Chloe is Clark's link to humanity, which was why I was perplexed by Reporter's comment. I'm not saying that Chloe doesn't have a role to play in this regard, but she's not the only, the best, or the most capable of achieving this, IMHO.

I'll just give my opinion on Chloe by developing what I meant earlier in how both in a different way contribute to Clark's humanity.

Lois contribute to his heroic side because of her support of the RBB.

Chloe contribute to his human side well first because (like his parents, Lois, Lana, Pete etc...) are part of what makes him human. He has an emotional tie to them.

I also think that somehow Chloe represent Clark's humanity. They are similar in that sense. The caring compassionate side that drives Chloe to help others. Clark has pointed that out:

Tomb:

Chloe: "Why was I the only one that could see her? I mean, why did she choose me?"
Clark: Maybe because you care more about other people than anyone else I know."

Crush
Clark to Chloe: You're not oblivious, you're trusting. You're strong enough to take risks with your emotions. I wish I were as brave as you.

The quote above was about Chloe dating what ended up being a murderer in season 1. Clark already singled out Chloe has the most caring person he knows. Trusting also. He used to admire of these qualities within Chloe. Qualities he has himself:

Bizarro

Clark: I unleashed a carbon-copy of myself. Only without my...
John: Humanity.
Clark: What was I supposed to do, let him kill every host he inhabited?
John: That is one the hardest trials you will face, Kal-El. While your humanity is your greatest strength, it is also your greatest vulnerability.
Clark: Well it's part of who I am. And it's who I want to be. I’m proud I was raised to care for people. And I'm not going to apologize for it anymore.

But Clark has a tendency to be wary of this aspect whether for himself or Chloe. Already in Crush he admitted that he was afraid to take risks with his emotions:

Prey:
Clark: I guess I just didn't understand how you could hand over your trust so easily to people you didn't' know.

Chloe: It's not just the damsels in distress that need saving, Clark. You know, when I first thought that you were one of the meteor-infected, I would have done anything to protect you.

Clark: But I guess that's what scares me. I'm afraid that someday you're gonna put your trust in the wrong person.

Bizarro:

Clark: In a weird way, he may have been right. Maybe I have allowed myself to become weak, caring too much about everything, everyone here.

Martian Manhunter: You've learned a lot from your time in Smallville. These people have made you who you are.
Clark: They won't always be here. Losing Lana has made me realize no matter how close I get, someday they'll all be gone. And all the time that I've spent ignoring my destiny, trying to be something I'll never be... human.

Doomsday:

Clark: I've always tried to forget I was an alien or a creature. I've always tried to pretend I was human. I was raised to believe it was my Kryptonian part that was dangerous, Chloe, but I was wrong. It's my human side. It... It's the side that gets attached, the side that makes decisions based on emotions. That's my enemy. And Davis proved that to me.

Chloe: So, because of some psychopath, you're gonna cut the rest of us out of your life? Clark... human emotion is what made you the hero that you are today.

After being wrong about Davis and losing everyone, Chloe keeps going. Instead of withdrawing herself she wants to make a ''home'' for heroes like Clark and Oliver. She doesn't call it a base or center of operation, she a word evocative of family. She's still ready to open up to people.

Jimmy: I saw him. And I saw what he can do. Who he is. And now I see all kinds of things. I see what you've sacrificed for him. For everyone, really."

Chloe:"That's the reason I went with Davis - to protect Clark. That's the only reason."

Jimmy: "It all makes sense now. But the way I see it, you are as much of a hero as he's ever been. What you've gone through, what you've risked.

Perhaps the conversation between Chloe and Jimmy meant that its not superpowers that makes a person a hero. Its the care and compassion for others.

Maybe Chloe will be one of the persons who'll remind him of that. Because she illustrates not only his weakness but his greatest strength. She's the the person, that Clark knows, who cares the most about others.

Of course Clark has those qualities within himself. Everybody also contributes to who he his. He's not some puppet that Chloe, Lois and other must control so he could act. One must not have the exclusivity of bringing out the hero in him, the human him, etc.

For me the point is that in general each people has a way to bring out aspects of of one person.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 02:15 PM

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 02:23 PM

I'll just give my opinion on Chloe by developing what I meant earlier in how both in a different way contribute to Clark's humanity.

I agree that Chloe has contributed to Clark's humanity. I never meant to imply otherwise. I simply disagree with the notion that she or anyone else is more capable of this than any other person in his life or that she or anyone else is the only person who has this effect on Clark.

I believe that Lois connects Clark to humanity in the sense that she acts as a "vacation" from his alien side. When Clark is with Lois, he is just "Clark" not the RBB or Kal-El. Lois only sees the human side, and she loves that human side. She loves the dorky farm boy and likes the fact that he does not have a hero complex, but rather she sees him as a heroically human in the way he never throws away good memories or the way he interacts with his parents and friends. In other words, it is the way in which Lois and Clark interact that enriches his human life. It is the existence of the relationship that helps in part to ground him to humanity rather than simply words that remind him of this important side of him.

I don't see Lois as Clark's link to humanity on the show. I don't care what the comics say or what other mediums say or even TPTB say.

It has been said that Lois serves as one of his links to humanity, as does Chloe. Neither does it singlehandedly. The comics and other mediums speak to how Lois contributes to grounding Clark to humanity, not why.

His parents raised him as a human. He learned what he did from them in his formative years as we all do. Good and bad. Jonathan Kent saw things in black and white. Sometimes that was good and sometimes that was bad. But guess what, Clark's the same. He has the same rigid moral code and nothing will persuade me that he didn't get that from his father.

Which is what many people, including myself, have already said. It's nice to see that we're in agreement.

His friends have helped shape him as they do for most people and as I consider Chloe his closest, I will say she's been a huge influence in his life. As has Lex (more so then Chloe even) And the rest.

I agree that Chloe is Clark's closest friend, but I don't really agree that her influence has been that major in comparison to others.

I'm not sure why there's the myth that Kryptonians need a link to humanity to feel as humans do. They're not Vulcans for God's sake. They feel, they love, they avenge, they hate, they cheat, they steal, they betray, they care, they save, they're heroes and they're villains. The show has portrayed them as such numerous times and I would class those as human qualities. Clark is not an average human but he's not an average Kryptonian either. He's not a hero only because of his powers. He's a hero because of who is and what he does and what he will go on to do.

I agree with this, but I have to reiterate that it's not about Lois or Chloe or anyone else necessarily imbuing Clark with human qualities like "feeling as humans do." Rather, it's about different individuals making his human existence one that he finds just as rewarding as being a superhero.

It is not so much that Kryptonians do not have the same emotions that humans do. It is that without human influences, Kryptonians can become drunk with the power that the yellow sun bestows upon them simply because of their DNA. Furthermore, when I speak of "humanity" I am referring to Clark's identity as Clark Kent. Bryan Singer, the director of Superman Returns, describes three sides to "Superman" as Clark (mild mannered reporter), Superman (alien superhero), and Kal-El (a combination of the two other identities). Since Season 5, Chloe has grown closer to the Kal-El personality. The very human Clark Kent, however, is only reserved for Lois. It is the side he shows her everyday as we saw in Hex. It is only with the addition of the RBB that Lois gains access to the Superman side.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 02:26 PM

KalEltheBoyscout

06-16-2009, 02:30 PM

Um, yeah! What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 02:41 PM

Um, yeah! What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?

Not only sidekick, but bestfriend/confident/scoobing partner/heroine ..... :);) and it goes BOTH WAYS :)

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 02:43 PM

Um, yeah! What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?

I guess we'll find out in a possible S10, won't we?

Lilah

06-16-2009, 02:45 PM

I don't see Lois as Clark's link to humanity on the show. I don't care what the comics say or what other mediums say or even TPTB say.

His parents raised him as a human. He learned what he did from them in his formative years as we all do. Good and bad. Jonathan Kent saw things in black and white. Sometimes that was good and sometimes that was bad. But guess what, Clark's the same. He has the same rigid moral code and nothing will persuade me that he didn't get that from his father.

His friends have helped shape him as they do for most people and as I consider Chloe his closest, I will say she's been a huge influence in his life. As has Lex (more so then Chloe even) And the rest.

I'm not sure why there's the myth that Kryptonians need a link to humanity to feel as humans do. They're not Vulcans for God's sake. They feel, they love, they avenge, they hate, they cheat, they steal, they betray, they care, they save, they're heroes and they're villains. The show has portrayed them as such numerous times and I would class those as human qualities. Clark is not an average human but he's not an average Kryptonian either. He's not a hero only because of his powers. He's a hero because of who is and what he does and what he will go on to do.

Negative.

While Kryptonians aren't potrayed as shady politicians from Vulcan. They aren't potrayed as human either. In fact, Clark shunned his father until recently. And every Kryptonian he's ever met has tried to take over the world or kill him. Raya and Kara are the only exceptions. And even when he first met them, he was wary of them. So I don't think that if Clark had recently landed on Earth as a grown man, he'd be the same person he is today. And a part of that is because he's different from other Kryptonians because he was raised among humans as a human.

Now, as for Lois being his link to humanity, its something that's been written in the Comics for years. Everytime Lois Lane has "died" so has Clark Kent. That doesn't mean he stopped being a hero, because that's who he is, but he just wasn't Clark anymore. Kind of like what happened in the season finale.

A person can take that any way they want, but that's the impression that final scene left.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22Mb_3hhMjQ

Clark: Chloe, I've searched everywhere... there's no sign of Lois...
Chloe: I saw someone tacking her photo on a missing person's board.. and I keep thinking that maybe... maybe I haven't...
Clark: Lost everyone...
Chloe: You were there today, Clark. Weren't you? I really needed you... Why didn't you come to me?
Clark: The reason Jimmy is dead... Oliver was right. I put humanity on a pedastol. It wasn't a Kryptonian beast that killed Jimmy. It was the human.
Chloe: I was standing right here, Clark. I know full well who killed Jimmy.
Clark: This place Chloe, just get rid of it. Just walk away and don't look back.
Chloe: You don't get it... Clark, Jimmy is here. He's watching over me. He knew me so well, he knew this place would be perfect. Jimmy wanted to know, that no matter where i was in the city, I could look up here and see this beacon. The watchtower. Look, Dinah, Oliver and Bart all disappeared. Maybe its up to us to bring them back home...
Clark: Home? I don't have a home...
Chloe: I don't like the way that sounds...
Clark: I've always tried to forget that I was an alien, or a creature. I've always tried to pretend that I was human. I was raised to believe that it was my Kryptonian part that was dangerous, Chloe, but I was wrong. It's my human side. It's the side that gets attached. The side that makes decisions based on emotions. That's my enemy.
Davis proved that to me.
Chloe: So because of some psychopath you're going to cut the rest of us out of your life? Clark, human emotion is what made you the hero that you are today...
Clark: They are what's stopping me from being the hero, I could be. It's what the world needs now.
Chloe: What are you saying?
Clark: Clark Kent is dead. Goodbye Chloe.

Now, I don't know about you but that parallels those scans from the comic that ginevrakent has posted.

It showed that Lois is in fact his home. When Chloe said he was cutting the rest of them out of his life, she was really refering to herself. Because he still plans on being a "hero" to the world when he said "that's what the world needs right now..." So its not like he's going off to the Fortress to brood. He's just not going to get attached to any human. Probably out of guilt, because everyone that has known his secret has either ruined their life or died.

I do think that the writers haven't really written Clois, as well as they could. They're stalling it and will continue to stall it so long as they get renewed for more seasons. But they do want to show the parallels from the love story of other medias including the comics. And this scene, that was a "Chlark" scene actually had more "Clois" undertones than anything else.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

Um, yeah! What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?

In my opinion, a lot better off....

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

Not only sidekick, but bestfriend/confident/scoobing partner/heroine ..... :);) and it goes BOTH WAYS :)

I'm not too confident she'll still hold the same mantle in the premiere. Especially with the way they left things in the finale.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 02:56 PM

Now, as for Lois being his link to humanity, its something that's been written in the Comics for years. Everytime Lois Lane has "died" so has Clark Kent. That doesn't mean he stopped being a hero, because that's who he is, but he just wasn't Clark anymore. Kind of like what happened in the season finale

Thanks to mr lane in the Clois thread, here is another example of "Clark Kent" dying the day that Lois Lane dies:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4946984&postcount=145

Again, Lois is not Clark's only link to humanity. However, in many ways she is the only reason for "Clark Kent" to exist. In these instances when Lois dies, Clark still maintains his humanity in terms of his emotions, compassion, and ethics, but he loses the human identity of Clark Kent.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:00 PM

I agree that Chloe is Clark's closest friend, but I don't really agree that her influence has been that major in comparison to others.

I think it's been huge. We obviously won't agree on this.

It is not so much that Kryptonians do not have the same emotions that humans do. It is that without human influences, Kryptonians can become drunk with the power that the yellow sun bestows upon them simply because of their DNA. Furthermore, when I speak of "humanity" I am referring to Clark's identity as Clark Kent. Bryan Singer, the director of Superman Returns, describes three sides to "Superman" as Clark (mild mannered reporter), Superman (alien superhero), and Kal-El (a combination of the two other identities). Since Season 5, Chloe has grown closer to the Kal-El personality. The very human Clark Kent, however, is only reserved for Lois. It is the side he shows her everyday as we saw in Hex. It is only with the addition of the RBB that Lois gains access to the Superman side.

His very human side is reserved for every single person that he interacts with that doesn't know his secret IMO. AND for those that do too including Chloe, including Oliver, including his parents.

As for human influence. Is Chloe not human? Has he not been vulnerable, brave, funny, sarcastic, gentle, severe, sympathetic, caring, angry, loving, heroic and upset around her too.

I've never seen this Clark Kent as someone who would become drunk with his power and whilst I respect that Singers has his own opinion, I loathed the movie for so many reasons that I'm instantly put off him.

I don't see Clark Kent as an identity. I see Clark Kent as Clark Kent. A boy who grew up knowing he was different, learning why and finding his place in the world. An alien who grow up on Earth with amazing powers and adjusted to them. A man who has decided to use his powers to help others. He works as a reporter, he saves others under a guise but he is always Clark Kent. Not a split personality with only one facet to deal with certain areas in his life.

ETA: I don't care what the comics say about Lois being whatever. I judge by what I see on the show and comic scans really prove nothing to me in regards with what I'm seeing. Different mediums.

Negative.

You may think so. I obviously don't. I draw my own conclusions.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 03:05 PM

Thanks to mr lane in the Clois thread, here is another example of "Clark Kent" dying the day that Lois Lane dies:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4946984&postcount=145

Again, Lois is not Clark's only link to humanity. However, in many ways she is the only reason for "Clark Kent" to exist. In these instances when Lois dies, Clark still maintains his humanity in terms of his emotions, compassion, and ethics, but he loses the human identity of Clark Kent.

With all due respect Libby, my question is ...... how does that apply on SV? IMHO, Clois still aren´t THAT emotionally deeply connected/attached.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:05 PM

ETA: I don't care what the comics say about Lois being whatever. I judge by what I see on the show and comic scans really prove nothing to me in regards with what I'm seeing. Different mediums.

If there are similarities between SV and other mediums, then they provide insight into what we've only glimpsed at the end of Doomsday. Considering Clark has never really been in this situation before, we're all guessing so I'm not sure what part of the show you've seen to give you special knowledge about what is or what is to come. It's all speculation, I'm just using outside evidence to inform my views.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

With all due respect Libby, my question is ...... how does that apply on SV? IMHO, Clois still aren´t THAT emotionally deeply connected/attached.

With all due respect, you don't know the context of that episode at all. If you did you would know that Lois and Superman as well as Lois and Clark were never in a relationship in the animated series. There were small flirtations here and there along the extent that Clois have interacted on Smallville, but never were they "emotionally deeply connected/attached" as you say.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:10 PM

If there are similarities, then it provides insight into what we've only glimpsed at the end of Doomsday. Considering Clark has never really been in this situation before, we're all guessing so I'm not sure what part of the show you've seen to give you special knowledge about what is or what is to come. It's all speculation, I'm just using outside evidence to inform my views.

But I don't see it as insight. At all. I don't see it as having anything to do with it. You see it differently. That's great.

I can't remember claiming to have any special knowledge about anything at all. I'm just giving my opinion.

I'm just using outside evidence to inform my views.

And I don't consider outside evidence as being quite the same thing.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 03:12 PM

Since Season 5, Chloe has grown closer to the Kal-El personality. The very human Clark Kent, however, is only reserved for Lois. It is the side he shows her everyday as we saw in Hex. It is only with the addition of the RBB that Lois gains access to the Superman side.

Huhhh?? Chloe have seen all sides of Clark could possible have .... so I truly don´t get what you are trying to say....

There is no more of Clark to see except when he puts on his Superman suit.....

and I believe Chloe has seen all of it, and loves him in all ways possible.
----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

With all due respect, you don't know the context of that episode at all. If you did you would know that Lois and Superman as well as Lois and Clark were never in a relationship in the animated series. There were small flirtations here and there along the extent that Clois have interacted on Smallville, but never were they "emotionally deeply connected/attached" as you say.

So I should just forget everything I have seen on L&C then ... hmm interesting, there is no way how you can love someone without being emotionally attached .... Lois doesn´t love Clark Kent, but Superman ..... anyway

Storm45

06-16-2009, 03:14 PM

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:15 PM

But I don't see it as insight. At all. I don't see it as having anything to do with it. You see it differently. That's great.

So if Clark acts one way in other mediums and then acts the same way on Smallville due to the same reasons, one can't at least find that the least bit informative? I've never argued that the comparisons were extraordinarily persuasive, I just find them interesting to ponder. If you want to treat simple information as useless, that's great for you :).

I can't remember claiming to have any special knowledge about anything at all. I'm just giving my opinion.

You said that you "judge by what you see on the show." Since we haven't seen the show yet this year, I'm not sure what you're basing your judgment on in a discussion about how the story of Clark's lost humanity might continue to unfold.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:15 PM

Huhhh?? Chloe have seen all sides of Clark could possible have .... so I truly don´t get what you are trying to say....

There is no more of Clark to see except when he puts on his Superman suit.....

and I believe Chloe has seen all of it, and loves him in all ways possible.

Chloe loved him long before his Hero days. She loved him as the dorky schoolboy when other girls didn't even know he existed (which with TW playing him was a little silly because hello?). She loved him for who he was. She thought he was special just the way he was and she thought he could do great things just the way he was.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

So if Clark acts one way in other mediums and then acts the same way on Smallville due to the same reasons, one can't at least find that the least bit informative? I've never argued that the comparisons were extraordinarily persuasive, I just find them interesting to ponder. If you want to treat simple information as useless, that's great for you :).

But I don't consider it being the same reason at all.

You said that you "judge by what you see on the show." Since we haven't seen the show yet this year, I'm not sure what you're basing your judgment on in a discussion about how the story of Clark's lost humanity might continue to unfold.

No. Doomsday.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:18 PM

So I should just forget everything I have seen on L&C then ... hmm interesting, there is no way how you can love someone without being emotionally attached .... Lois doesn´t love Clark Kent, but Superman ..... anyway

I never mentioned anything about L&C. The feelings between Lois and Clark/Superman were left unexpressed in both the real world and the AU depicted in that Superman: TAS episode that I linked to. If there was an emotional attachment, it was never acted upon or shown within the context of the show beyond the same flirtations we've seen between Lois and Clark on Smallville.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

But I don't consider it being the same reason at all.

In the comics and TAS, Lois dies and Kal-El decides to give up his Clark Kent persona. In Smallville, Lois dies and Kal-El decides to give up his Clark Kent personal. Nope not similar at all.

No. Doomsday.

What about Doomsday?

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:21 PM

I thought this thread was about Chloe. Chloe's importance to Clark can't be debated without arguing how other people are so much more important :\

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:22 PM

Overall, its everything that happened in Clark's life that lead him to reject his humanity at the end of Doomsday. Not just Lois disapearance.

He's been hurt many many times, he feels reponsible for everything and recently with Rokk's warning, Oliver's warnings, Jimmy's death, Davis ending up killing anyway and Doomsday and Lois gone, he had enough.

Of course it's not just Lois's disappearance. That's not what I've been arguing. It's that with Lois returning, there is a possibility that she will have a constructive effect (along with others) on bringing out Clark Kent again. I am basing this prediction on what has been portrayed in other media.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:24 PM

In the comics and TAS, Lois dies and Kal-El decides to give up his Clark Kent persona. In Smallville, Lois dies and Kal-El decides to give up his Clark Kent personal. Nope not similar at all.

No. Not at all.

What do you want me to say. To agree? I obviously won't as I don't see it the way you do. It's possible for people to see things differently.

What about Doomsday?

I thought we were discussing the last scene. Or at lesat I thought I was. I'm not sure at which point I lost you but I don't think there's any point in taking this further.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:24 PM

I thought this thread was about Chloe. Chloe's importance to Clark can't be debated without arguing how other people are so much more important :\

I'm fine with a discussion about Chloe, but if someone states that she is more than or better in a way that I disagree with and for reasons that make me less stoked about her continued presence on the show, then I'm going to speak out.

I have repeatedly said that Chloe serves along others as an important part of Clark's life. It is for this reason and her role with the JL that I am interested in even watching her scenes this year, because in all other respects she has been largely intolerable to me this year.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

No. Not at all.

What do you want me to say. To agree? I obviously won't as I don't see it the way you do. It's possible for people to see things differently.

You don't have to agree. I was just pointing out how both situations are similar in a very shorthand way. If you can't see it, that's fine.

I thought we were discussing the last scene. Or at lesat I thought I was. I'm not sure at which point I lost you but I don't think there's any point in taking this further.

I was never specifically talking about the last scene. I was speaking of the notion of Clark giving up humanity, in general. We don't have to discuss further, agreeing to disagree is fine by me.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----

More of my thoughts before I say adieu...

I think it's been huge. We obviously won't agree on this.

Can you please point me to part of my previous posts where I suggested that Chloe has not had an important influence on Clark's life? I think I have stated repeatedly that I disagree with the notion that Chloe is the one, the only, the best, and the most important link that Clark has with humanity. I believe that Chloe, Lois, Martha, Jonathan, and Clark Kent himself are all important.

As for human influence. Is Chloe not human? Has he not been vulnerable, brave, funny, sarcastic, gentle, severe, sympathetic, caring, angry, loving, heroic and upset around her too.

At what point did I ever suggest that Chloe has not been a important influence? Again, I am just explaining how Lois interacts with and influences Clark's human side. I am not negating Chloe's influence. Why is it that so hard to understand?

I've never seen this Clark Kent as someone who would become drunk with his power and whilst I respect that Singers has his own opinion, I loathed the movie for so many reasons that I'm instantly put off him.

When did I ever suggest that Clark Kent is the type of person who would be drunk with power? This Clark Kent would never be drunk with power because of the human influences on his life: his parents and his friends. I was specifically refuting the idea that it is a myth that Kryptonians require human influences in their lives. Clark is not drunk with power or a despot because of his links to humanity and because of qualities that are innate to him. Other Kryptonians without these innate qualities and without human influence can be corrupted by the powers they possess on Earth. Clark cannot be similarly corrupted because of people like Martha, Jonathan, Chloe, and Lois.

I don't see Clark Kent as an identity. I see Clark Kent as Clark Kent. A boy who grew up knowing he was different, learning why and finding his place in the world. An alien who grow up on Earth with amazing powers and adjusted to them. A man who has decided to use his powers to help others. He works as a reporter, he saves others under a guise but he is always Clark Kent. Not a split personality with only one facet to deal with certain areas in his life.

Apparently, Clark doesn't agree with you since he declared that side of his personality "dead" in Doomsday. Clark clearly sees himself as composed of two distinct personalities that can be separated. I guess I should be more clear, however. It isn't that Clark Kent ceases to exist. Clark simply chooses to embrace one side of himself more than another during these times of personal crisis. By denying Clark Kent's existence, he can avoid dealing with the human emotions he is feeling. It isn't healthy and it isn't real because he is Clark Kent, but Clark definitely sees his human side as something he can suppress when it becomes too painful.

Okay, that's it for this topic. To be even more explicitly on topic I will reiterate that I think it's most likely a good thing that Chloe survived and I am happy for Clark that she did. I wish I was equally content, but until I see how Chloe acts next season I'm basically indifferent to her survival.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 03:29 PM

Chloe loved him long before his Hero days. She loved him as the dorky schoolboy when other girls didn't even know he existed (which with TW playing him was a little silly because hello?). She loved him for who he was. She thought he was special just the way he was and she thought he could do great things just the way he was.

With or without powers Chloe Sullivan loves him.

Rush

Chloe: I always knew there was something special about you Clark Kent

Arrival

Chloe: For me you are more than a hero, you´re Super hero.

If you look at these two quotes, you will notice that Clark was already special for Chloe even before she knew about his secrets, she knew him so well, how special he was ... he didn´t even need to show off his powers to her so she could admire him more, because she did ANYWAY.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:37 PM

With or without powers Chloe Sullivan loves him.

Rush

Chloe: I always knew there was something special about you Clark Kent

Arrival

Chloe: For me you are more than a hero, you´re Super hero.

If you look at these two quotes, you will notice that Clark was already special for Chloe even before she knew about his secrets, she knew him so well, how special he was ... he didn´t even need to show off his powers to her so she could admire him more, because she did ANYWAY.

That's very sweet, Kelly. Thanks for sharing.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 03:39 PM

Can you please point me to part of my previous posts where I suggested that Chloe has not had an important influence on Clark's life? I think I have stated repeatedly that I disagree with the notion that Chloe is the one, the only, the best, and the most important link that Clark has with humanity. I believe that Chloe, Lois, Martha, Jonathan, and Clark Kent himself are all important.

Can you point me to the part of my previous posts that I have said it's only Chloe that has had an important influence on Clark's life?

At what point did I ever suggest that Chloe has not been a important influence? Again, I am just explaining how Lois interacts with and influences Clark's human side. I am not negating Chloe's influence. Why is it that so hard to understand?

It's hard to understand because Lois has nothing to do with how he interacts with Chloe. You were arguing (or seemed to be) that only Lois saw Clark's human side and he reserved that only for her. Not anybody else. I don't agree at all hence the point of my post.

Apparently, Clark doesn't agree with you since he declared that side of his personality "dead" in Doomsday. Clark clearly sees himself as composed of two distinct personalities that can be separated. I guess I should be more clear, however. It isn't that Clark Kent ceases to exist. Clark simply chooses to embrace one side of himself more than another during these times of personal crisis. By denying Clark Kent's existence, he can avoid dealing with the human emotions he is feeling. It isn't healthy and it isn't real because he is Clark Kent, but Clark definitely sees his human side as something he can suppress when it becomes too painful.

But it won't be dead because it's not possibble as I believe we'll see. He is not two distinct people. He's someone denying a part of himself because he's in pain. Humans do it all the time too. Close themselves off in order to not hurt. It rarely works IMO.

Storm45

06-16-2009, 03:45 PM

Yes,everybody close themselves up after being hurt. But he can't suppress human side. Its a part of him. Its too late for that. He can't deny his mother, his love for his father and his friends.

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 03:51 PM

Can you point me to the part of my previous posts that I have said it's only Chloe that has had an important influence on Clark's life?

I never said that you labeled Chloe as the most important influence on Clark's life. All my earlier responses were essentially in connection to Reporter's post earlier today. It was you who said that I was arguing that Lois was Clark's link to humanity when I only ever said she was one of them. However, you did say that Chloe was a "huge influence" on Clark and I disagreed somewhat saying that I thought she was a huge influence, but no more so than others--a response to which you disagreed.

It's hard to understand because Lois has nothing to do with how he interacts with Chloe. You were arguing (or seemed to be) that only Lois saw Clark's human side and he reserved that only for her. Not anybody else. I don't agree at all hence the point of my post.

No, not his human side per se. Sorry if I was unclear. The Clark Kent that we saw in Hex is essentially the Clark Kent that Lois sees everyday. Chloe knew something was off with him and encouraged Clark to remember his powers on the roof, on the sidewalk, etc., but Lois likely wouldn't have because that Clark Kent is who she interacts with on a daily basis at the Daily Planet. Chloe noticed in Hex how different Clark, even before the spell kicked in, treated her in comparison to Lois. It is this part of Clark's personality (a part that he likes about himself) that gets lost without Lois around just like he lost part of his hero self when Chloe wasn't there (she really was, but he didn't believe her since she looked like Lois).

It's But it won't be dead because it's not possibble as I believe we'll see. He is not two distinct people. He's someone denying a part of himself because he's in pain. Humans do it all the time too. Close themselves off in order to not hurt. It rarely works IMO.

That's how I see it too, which is why I said exactly that in my post.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

Yes,everybody close themselves up after being hurt. But he can't suppress human side. Its a part of him. Its too late for that. He can't deny his mother, his love for his father and his friends.

Clark is consciously choosing to supress his human side. It's a coping mechanism, but in essence "Clark Kent" is still gone and something will have to be done on Clark's part as well as others to revive him. This is why I'm happy Chloe's alive, because she along with others and Clark himself will have an important part to play in this, IMO.

BadToad

06-16-2009, 03:58 PM

What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?

Hopefully he would still be Clark Kent, future Superman, and present day hero. He'd get things done a bit differently, but I don't believe Clark's core characteristics would be changed, or his drive to help people. Clark deserves the credit for who he is. Not anyone else. IMO

And personally, I think Clark would be hard hit to lose several different people in his life, but IMO, he would endure and move forward, and continue to be a force for good. I can't speak for Clark in any other medium, I can only speak for SV Clark. And IMO, it would take time, but he'll be OK in the end.

Lilah

06-16-2009, 04:00 PM

Thanks to mr lane in the Clois thread, here is another example of "Clark Kent" dying the day that Lois Lane dies:

http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4946984&postcount=145

Again, Lois is not Clark's only link to humanity. However, in many ways she is the only reason for "Clark Kent" to exist. In these instances when Lois dies, Clark still maintains his humanity in terms of his emotions, compassion, and ethics, but he loses the human identity of Clark Kent.

That just sums it all up. I agree. There's 3 personas to Clark Kent. There's Clark Kent (the only side he allows Lois to see), there's Superman/RBB (he only just introduced Lois to, but is still closed off from) and there's Kal-El (who Lois has met, but didn't know).

I agree, in many ways she's the reason for Clark Kent to exist because without her, he'd just be Superman.

Storm45

06-16-2009, 04:05 PM

His parents... its his parents who raised him.

Dustmite

06-16-2009, 04:06 PM

1) I'm very disturbed that I can't type fast and still spell :\ Seeing my misspelled posts quoted is making my eye twitch.

I agree, in many ways she's the reason for Clark Kent to exist because without her, he'd just be Superman.

Of course. As he was before he met her. That's what Martha and Jonathan and Pete and Chloe and Lex and Lana knew him as; Superman. And then along came Lois and hey presto, Clark popped up.

People like his parents have nothing to do with it all. They only raised him. And Smallville's own canon doesn't matter a bit. It can just be ignored for other mediums.

Storm45

06-16-2009, 04:08 PM

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 04:10 PM

Hopefully he would still be Clark Kent, future Superman, and present day hero. He'd get things done a bit differently, but I don't believe Clark's core characteristics would be changed, or his drive to help people. Clark deserves the credit for who he is. Not anyone else. IMO

And personally, I think Clark would be hard hit to lose several different people in his life, but IMO, he would endure and move forward, and continue to be a force for good. I can't speak for Clark in any other medium, I can only speak for SV Clark. And IMO, it would take time, but he'll be OK in the end.

Well said, BadToad!

On a separate note, I just wanted to reiterate that I never meant to imply that any one person deserves credit for the amazing guy Clark is and will be (I don't think I did, btw). Sometimes it's not even the people, but also the environment, that influences who we are. The references I made to other media was purely to highlight how the theme of Clark losing or suppressing his human side has been dealt with before.

My guess is Smallville, as always, will take a slightly different approach. I just like providing food for thought, and don't expect people to draw the same conclusions as I do. It's similar to how some discussed the plot of Homer's Odyssey when we first discovered this past season's premier title. It's information to ponder, nothing more or less than that. Chloe's role will likely be part of the Smallville approach to this oft repeated theme which will be interesting to watch; hence me not being totally discontent with her survival.

Lilah

06-16-2009, 04:10 PM

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 04:26 PM

I agree, in many ways she's the reason for Clark Kent to exist because without her, he'd just be Superman.

His parents... its his parents who raised him.

Of course. As he was before he met her. That's what Martha and Jonathan and Pete and Chloe and Lex and Lana knew him as; Superman. And then along came Lois and hey presto, Clark popped up.

People like his parents have nothing to do with it all. They only raised him. And Smallville's own canon doesn't matter a bit. It can just be ignored for other mediums.

I just wanted to say that I hope I'm not being unclear. I disagree with the notion that Clark Kent as a persona exists solely for Lois Lane and that he'd only be Superman without her (I'm more referring to the Clark Kent Lois knows that doesn't have powers i.e. the guy in Hex). Sure this has happened in other media, and I find that interesting. Nonetheless, I'm sure even the comic book authors would acknowledge that the Kents, Perry White, Jimmy, and the other people in Clark's life enrich his human side despite their choice to focus exclusively on Lois as a symbol of this in the examples I provided. They are different stories, in a different context, that I only referenced due to similar themes being explored.

It's like this apple tree I have in my yard. It was grown from one single seed, but it produces a variety of different apples. Yet the same ingredients--air, sunlight, water--help it to grow. Clark/Kal-El/Superman (the full combination of who this amazing man is) is the seed, but he expresses himself in different forms despite being fortified by all those he loves and who love him.

1) I'm very disturbed that I can't type fast and still spell :\ Seeing my misspelled posts quoted is making my eye twitch.

Aw, I think we all have that problem. Well, Chloe may not, but in any case I still think your posts are well thought out and expressed in spite of the occasional typo--something again that we're all prey to :) .

Lilah

06-16-2009, 04:30 PM

1) I'm very disturbed that I can't type fast and still spell :\ Seeing my misspelled posts quoted is making my eye twitch.

Of course. As he was before he met her. That's what Martha and Jonathan and Pete and Chloe and Lex and Lana knew him as; Superman. And then along came Lois and hey presto, Clark popped up.

People like his parents have nothing to do with it all. They only raised him. And Smallville's own canon doesn't matter a bit. It can just be ignored for other mediums.

Again, you are taking my words out of context. Clark Kent has 3 sides to him, 3 different personas. You may not see it as that, but its the way its been written for decades and the writers of Smallville have done nothing different.

Clark Kent- Regular farmboy turned Reporter with real family values who grew up in a Small town.

Superman- The hero persona of Clark Kent.

Kal-El- The boy from Krypton who was sent to Earth to survive amongst the humans, thus becoming Clark Kent.

The only thing that changes from media to media is who the man is and who is the disguise.

Such as in the movies, Superman was the man and Clark Kent was the disguise. This is why he was more bumbling and goofy and nerdy. It was a persona he took on, to throw people off from finding out he was in fact Superman.

In L&C, Clark Kent was the man and Superman was the disguise. He used the disguise as means to help people.

On Smallville, much like L&C Clark Kent is the man while the Red and Blue Blur is the disguise that he has taken on this season to help others.

But when he said "Clark Kent is dead" it parallels other medias. It's a story plot that has been used countless times in different Superman medias. And each time he says this, it has to do something with Lois Lane's fate.

In Superman the movie, when she dies he lets out his anger, no longer as Clark Kent but as Superman. Granted she was dead for a few seconds, but had that played out longer something similar to that of the comics would have played out.

In L&C, its backwards I guess. Lois Lane makes Clark Kent want to be a hero. It's written that way in the episode "Tempus, Anyone?" in season 3, Lois is transported to an alternate universe where the Kent's died when Clark was young, he's engaged to Lana Lang and there is no Superman. This shows, that the humans he loved most (his parents, Lois) are what inspired him to be a hero.

On Smallville, Clark Kent always existed before Chloe, Lois or Pete or even Lana came into his life. It was the persona given to him by the Kent's. But Clark Kent is the only persona Lois Lane knows. Everyone else has had their chance to get to know Kal-El, the Kryptonian and the RBB before he was named that because he was a hero even in high school. Lois doesn't know Kal-El, even though her first meeting was with him and not Clark. And it is now that Clark is letting her in as his hero persona.

So in a sense, no Clark Kent isn't 3 different people, but more like 3 different personas. Think of it like water. Water has 3 different forms. There's the liquid form, the solid form and the gasseus form. Either way, it's still H20. That's more or less what I meant about Clark Kent.

And as for Lois's link.... what I meant is that with her (on Smallville, because in other medias its slightly different) it's okay to just be Clark Kent. He doesn't have to be the savior of mankind with her. He can be himself. He can be normal, because she doesn't know about his heritage or powers. But at the same time, she can make him feel special. Because even though she doesn't know he is the Red and Blue Blur, she respects that persona and loves it just as much as she loves the Clark Kent persona.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 04:33 PM

Maybe they're will be a retcon of Lineage. Martha named him Superman. Superman Kent. They raised him with no emotions.

Until he met Lois who will name him Clark Kent.

:lol: :rotfl:

ginevrakent

06-16-2009, 04:44 PM

Maybe they're will be a retcon of Lineage. Martha named him Superman. Superman Kent. They raised him with no emotions.

Until he met Lois who will name him Clark Kent.

Who's arguing this, though?

We're not talking about Clark Kent, the person, but Clark Kent the mild-mannered reporter.

Does this dialogue from Hex provide any illumination about the point being made?

Clark: I don't know. It's just there's a whole half of my life where this happens every day. Clark looks nostalgic. Weird has become so weird, it's not even weird anymore.

Chloe looks disappointed

Clark: Honestly I like what I'm doing a the Planet now, but I would be lying if I said that there weren't days when I wish I could forget about saving the world and just be a normal reporter.

Hex shows us that the normal side of Clark's life is being a reporter with Lois while the weird and unexplained side of his life is connected to Chloe. It's not exactly as black and white as that, but the point that I'm getting at is that Lois is the only one who can truly see Clark as just a normal reporter and as a result can treat him in this manner. This doesn't negate the early years of Clark's life when reporter!Clark didn't exist, but since we're discussing Clark Kent now and what may help him now, it doesn't seem too far of a leap to say that Lois will play a role in this as will others, including Chloe, but most importantly Clark Kent himself.

Storm45

06-16-2009, 04:57 PM

I'm not negating Lois role now.

I just disagree with the sentence that Lois being the reason that Clark Kent exists. Just like Chloe is not the reason that Superman exist.

Reading the sentence like that it sounded as if he didn't have this identity before.

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 05:01 PM

I thought this thread was about Chloe. Chloe's importance to Clark can't be debated without arguing how other people are so much more important :\

I just would like to post this image .... it´s from S7 I think, I loved it .... Chloe still the Reporter, she holding that notepad reminded of S1, there is a pic of her holding a notepad just like that ... it shows Jimmy with a camera..... come on!!!! he is not James Olsen huhhh? .... Clark with his Super expression, Lex, MM and Kara I think ... :)
..
This kind of pic makes me hate S8 even more .... because there are things that just don´t make sense now ... sorry for my little rant....:o:(

http://img38.picoodle.com/img/img38/2/6/16/redkrules/f_smallvillecm_d90ab61.jpg (http://www.picoodle.com/)

Storm45

06-16-2009, 05:03 PM

Cool... but its quite a random gathering. Where's this pic come from?

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 05:07 PM

There was this kind of campaign on S7, nop it was not fan campaign, it was promoted by the CW I forgot the name ...... DANG!!!! there are several of cartoon pics like these ....

----- Added 16 Minutes later -----

Those quotes are moot though, because when she said them she already knew about his powers.

She didn´t know about his powers in Rush .... well she discovered because of Pete .... but it was already almost at the middle of the episode.

She said she always KNEW there was something special about him even without knowing about his powers.

Lilah

06-16-2009, 06:32 PM

There was this kind of campaign on S7, nop it was not fan campaign, it was promoted by the CW I forgot the name ...... DANG!!!! there are several of cartoon pics like these ....

----- Added 16 Minutes later -----

She didn´t know about his powers in Rush .... well she discovered because of Pete .... but it was already almost at the middle of the episode.

She said she always KNEW there was something special about him even without knowing about his powers.

Isn't that what she said when he caught her after she jumped?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jxl3Jd_pDAo (1:45)

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 06:35 PM

I think you didn´t understand what I was trying to say ..... :) moving on ;)

doodie8808

06-16-2009, 06:39 PM

No no no she should have died at the hands of her lover doomy! Or jimmy should have killed them both but [MOD EDIT] should be 6 feet under!

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 06:42 PM

No no no she should have died at the hands of her lover doomy! Or jimmy should have killed them both but "saint chloe" should be 6 feet under!

Try next season....

Deana

06-16-2009, 07:14 PM

Um, yeah! What would Clark Kent be without his sidekick?Hopefully smart. He will suddenly remember that he is Kryptonian and that he could do all the stuff Chloe did for him with computers and such, a bazillion seconds faster. :lol:

Lilah

06-16-2009, 09:57 PM

I think you didn´t understand what I was trying to say ..... :) moving on ;)

Explain to me how I misunderstood.

You said Chloe said she always knew Clark Kent was special in Rush before she knew of his powers and I just showed you the video clip that she said it to him after she jumped and he caught her....:confused:

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 10:01 PM

Lilah

06-16-2009, 10:22 PM

Here we go again :) :lol: I was trying to say that Chloe considered Clark special even before she knew about his secrets, that why she said I always knew there was something special about Clark Kent :) I hope it is cleared now .... :o:o

Oh I think I get it.

By the way, I've been meaning to tell you all day... LOVE THE AVI! Jensen's hot ;)

RedKRules

06-16-2009, 10:24 PM

Oh I think I get it. But I don't think she was the only one who knew there was something special, different about Clark. ;)

I know ... :p Competition was tough back then :lol:, but I am glad to know that Chloe is still by Clark side after all these years... and survived through it ..... ;)

Lilah

06-17-2009, 09:15 AM

^Well, in my defense I never thought she was a bad friend. I just think she made some questionable decisions in the latter half of season 8. :) But the writers are to blame. :D

RedKRules

06-17-2009, 11:06 AM

Oh I think I get it.

By the way, I've been meaning to tell you all day... LOVE THE AVI! Jensen's hot ;)

Thanks, I love him, Jared, Sam, Tom .... that´s benefit of watching TV shows ....you get to *THUD* every episode :lol:

Lilah

06-17-2009, 04:00 PM

Thanks, I love him, Jared, Sam, Tom .... that´s benefit of watching TV shows ....you get to *THUD* every episode :lol:

Don't remind me... I won't get my Tom-Jensen team back to back anymore.... :(

I'm seriously think about waiting til Saturday to watch my CW shows instead of when they actually air..... I gotta keep the tradition ya know... :)

Reporter

06-18-2009, 08:25 AM

Chloe connects him so much to humanity, that he was talking about her when he told her he has no home and that his faith in humanity is gone. She's not the one missing in the season finale is she?

It looks like I saw that final scene in a whole different way than you did.

Firstly, Clark blames himself for Jimmy's death. He blames his morals and emotions, and remarks that he put humanity "on a pedastool", making a decision that ended badly. He blames himself because he's supposed to be the superhero. This is what he tells Chloe - that his emotions are stopping him from becoming the hero he needs to be. It's about Davis, it's about Jimmy. It's a culmination of things, and IMO not just because Lois is missing. (I actually think he looked more concerned that he was putting Chloe in more pain by telling her he couldn't find Lois, but that, as everything else here, is my personal interpretation of what I was seeing.)

He's making the choice to walk away from everyone he is attached to and loves, and the person we saw him say goodbye to and walk away from as he was "Walking away from human emotions" was Chloe, which I felt had the most impact because she's his best friend, and the audience knows what a connection they have - both on the human and superhero side.

Now, if people think that Clark "died" because Lois was gone, then okay. I just don't agree, and if that was their intention, then I feel they failed miserably on displaying that. JMO.

The only person in Smallville he's told voluntarilly, even though he takes it back, is actually Lois.

Because it was going to come out anyway, and he wanted her to write the article. I'm not saying that he didn't want to tell Lois, but if Chloe and Lana (had she been on the show at that point) had been unaware, we don't know that he wouldn't have told them first. When Chloe found out, he did say, "There were so many times I wanted to tell you."

I understand that this is your point of view, and I respect that. However, can you explain exactly how Chloe serves as Clark's link to humanity?

Emotion. Love. Friendship, etc. Clark grew up and reached adulthood with Chloe as one of his best friends and with her unaware that he wasn't human. They aren't just best friends because Clark has powers and Chloe digs that. And I'm not saying Chloe is the only connection to humanity, because as it's been said - it's so many things and people. I just believe that Chloe is a large part of it.

And I think, and hope, that it is those many people and things that bring Clark back, and not just one person.

to Lois (whom he also loves and considers a best friend)

When did Clark say Lois was a best friend?

I think I mentioned somewhere back on this thread, but either Lois or Clark referred to Chloe as his best friend when she wrote the article in "Infamous."

Selina

06-18-2009, 09:00 AM

Clark's humanity is linked to a number of people in his life come and gone, including Chloe, Lois, Lana and most of all, his parents.

Chloe is his BBF, whom he has very close bond with and Lois is his soulmate, whom he has a different kind of connection with. Nevetheless, they both play a strong role in his life and both remind him of what it is to be human.

As for Clark leaving Chloe at the end of season 8, I have to agree that it was heartbreaking for both of them and it was a very powerful scene. I'm pleased it was with Chloe. It makes sense as they are both aware of what happened (Davis being Doomsday, killing Jimmy) and Clark's humanity clouding his judgement etc.

However I do think the "I have no home" is more than just a coinsidence when it comes to Lois. The opening season had Clark say to Lois "I'm going to be a bit closer to home", looking opposite Lois's desk, meaning Lois being his home. He walked away with a big grin on his face. Now in the season finale, Lois is missing and he states he has no home. The expression on his face was the total opposite side of the spectrum of what we had in Odyssey. I don't think the message was meant to be displayed in black and white that the viewers were meant to "get" it. It's was just very subtle and I think that was the writers intention. It's natural that the ardent Clois fans would pick up on it and the average viewer wouldn't.

That's not to say there wasn't a string of emotions stiring within him. He was devestated and was carrying a huge amount of guilt. I believe the liine, "Clark Kent is dead" was directly related to his emotions but certainly not the former imo.

Back to the topic, I appreciate that Chloe is alive. She has never been on my list on who should die in the finale. Actually she was one of the few that I wanted to see surivive. I am happy to see her next season, so long as she doesn't get a storyline that assasinates her character anymore than the Doomsday plot did. Let's see fun-loving Chloe working with the good guys back! I personally think she'll be great in the role as watchtower. No more angst if that's not too much to ask.

Estro-gen X

06-28-2009, 06:56 PM

Chloe's whole storyline is based on the saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

wafflles87

06-29-2009, 10:37 AM

Chloe's whole storyline is based on the saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

Well said.

I never bought the excuse that "She was trying to do the best thing for everyone" or "She was trying to save Clark/Davis". That doesn't excuse her actions. People still got hurt and died because of her choices...

Lilah

06-29-2009, 11:13 AM

It looks like I saw that final scene in a whole different way than you did.

I think depending on who you ship, is how you'll interpret the scene. Personally, the only interpretation I'd like to see is that of an unbiased viewer.

Firstly, Clark blames himself for Jimmy's death. He blames his morals and emotions, and remarks that he put humanity "on a pedastool", making a decision that ended badly. He blames himself because he's supposed to be the superhero. This is what he tells Chloe - that his emotions are stopping him from becoming the hero he needs to be. It's about Davis, it's about Jimmy. It's a culmination of things, and IMO not just because Lois is missing. (I actually think he looked more concerned that he was putting Chloe in more pain by telling her he couldn't find Lois, but that, as everything else here, is my personal interpretation of what I was seeing.)

While, I agree, that it is a lot of things that made him decide to "kill" Clark Kent. That scene could be any number of things. It could be that of what you think, in a Chlarkers perspective, it could be that he was talking about Lois from a Cloisers perspective, it could be that it wasn't him but the Eradicator from a fanboys perspective. No one person watches the same thing the same way. I personally like that reference from "Odyssey" when Clark said "I'm going to be a little closer to home" while looking at Lois and then in "Doomsday" when he said "I have no home" after stating that Lois was in fact missing and he couldn't find her. And I interpreted as such. You might not have. But that's why we're all allowed to theorize until the season premiere. Until, they show us what they meant to.

He's making the choice to walk away from everyone he is attached to and loves, and the person we saw him say goodbye to and walk away from as he was "Walking away from human emotions" was Chloe, which I felt had the most impact because she's his best friend, and the audience knows what a connection they have - both on the human and superhero side.

You see it had a lot of impact. I see it that she was the only one left. He had no one else to say goodbye to. Jimmy's dead. Lois is gone. Oliver, Bart and Dinah are "missing" according to Chloe.

Chloe was all he had left tying him, so of course he's going to break that tie.

Chloe is not the only one who has shown him human emotions though. Every human he's met, loved, saved, hated, etc has shown him what human emotions are.

Now, if people think that Clark "died" because Lois was gone, then okay. I just don't agree, and if that was their intention, then I feel they failed miserably on displaying that. JMO.

And you are entitled to your opinion. But of course you're going to feel that something isn't being potrayed correctly, especially if its something you don't care to see. The reason why fans are tying the death of Clark Kent to Lois is because that's how it's always been in the comics. Everytime Lois has died, Clark Kent has declared himself dead along with her. And they did say that they would be aligning it up with the mythology. Part of that mythology is the epic love story of Lois and Clark. And if this is their way of bringing Clark to realize it that he loves her, then fine. It's a little angsty, but I'll take what I can get. But like I said, if you don't want to see something, you'll convince yourself to no end that it just isn't there. No matter what they show onscreen.

Because it was going to come out anyway, and he wanted her to write the article. I'm not saying that he didn't want to tell Lois, but if Chloe and Lana (had she been on the show at that point) had been unaware, we don't know that he wouldn't have told them first. When Chloe found out, he did say, "There were so many times I wanted to tell you."

And last time I checked, Clark Kent worked at the Daily Planet too. Why not write it himself? The truth is, in that moment he trusted Lois to tell his secret to and to write his story. The only reason he took it back in the end was to protect her (remember he saved her from those agents). That Barn scene was one of the most important Clois scenes in the series. He basically told her how important she is to him. As for him telling Chloe there were so many times he wanted to tell her... there were so many times he wanted to tell anyone. Remember, up until that point only Pete and Alicia had known his secret. Pete skipped town because he was scared he'd give up his secret and Alicia died protecting his. So Clark wanted to tell someone his secret for a long time. The person he was closest to at the time was Chloe. But I bet he wanted to tell Lana just as much if not more than his want to tell Chloe.

Emotion. Love. Friendship, etc. Clark grew up and reached adulthood with Chloe as one of his best friends and with her unaware that he wasn't human. They aren't just best friends because Clark has powers and Chloe digs that. And I'm not saying Chloe is the only connection to humanity, because as it's been said - it's so many things and people. I just believe that Chloe is a large part of it.

And I think, and hope, that it is those many people and things that bring Clark back, and not just one person.

Granted, that is true. Chloe (in Smallville) is a big part of Clark's life. At least she was. Up until the finale. I think their friendship has taken a drastic turn though, and I think fans should prepare themselves for that. I don't want Chloe and Clark to bounce right back right away. I want him to be angry at her. I want him to resent her. I want him to carry all the emotions alot of fans carry toward Chloe. I want her to redeem herself. I want her to gain back his trust, along with all of ours.

But I don't want what she did in the second half of the season to be brushed under the rug like it didn't happen.

And I hope Clark comes back for himself, and not for someone specifically. I hope he decides to return because he feels incomplete and he realizes he has a purpose and a destiny to fulfil. And I want him to stop running in season 9. Like Lois said, "Even the fastest blur can't outrun loneliness".

When did Clark say Lois was a best friend?

I think I mentioned somewhere back on this thread, but either Lois or Clark referred to Chloe as his best friend when she wrote the article in "Infamous."

Chloe is ONE of Clark's best friends. But I think its safe to say that after all this time, Lois and Clark consider themselves best friends. They've been through a lot together in the last year alone. He obviously trusts her, and she trusts him. It's not odd for him to have more than one best friend.

And to be honest, it sounds so greedy when fans say that Chloe is Clark's only best friend because of "Infamous". Lois is just as much Clark's bff as Chloe is. Thing is he goes to both girls for different things. He has Chloe for the alien-hero thing and Lois for the normalcy that yearns for.

RedKRules

06-29-2009, 11:17 AM

Well said.

I never bought the excuse that "She was trying to do the best thing for everyone" or "She was trying to save Clark/Davis". That doesn't excuse her actions. People still got hurt and died because of her choices...

If that´t the case, can I include Clark, Oliver and so many other on this hall of hell?????

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----

Chloe's whole storyline is based on the saying 'The road to hell is paved with good intentions'.

And yet it still works for all the characters of this show ..... I know it is cliche but good intentions is what this show is full of ......so they are all on their road to hell huhhhhh??????!

Lilah

06-29-2009, 11:59 AM

The other characters haven't done something as bad as what Chloe did this season... except for Lana.

And obviously Lex and Lionel but they were villains.

RedKRules

06-29-2009, 12:02 PM

The other characters haven't done something as bad as what Chloe did this season... except for Lana.

And obviously Lex and Lionel but they were villains.

you forgot to add the Oliver HERO !!! and it doesn´t matter which bad was more bad, because in the end BAD is BAD .... and ALL THE CHARACTERS have done it....

Lilah

06-29-2009, 12:40 PM

Oh right... Oliver killed the clone... and Chloe preached to him after killing Sebastian lol.... I forgot about that... Okay so add Ollie to that list.

abbaspice1

07-02-2009, 12:43 PM

you forgot to add the Oliver HERO !!! and it doesn´t matter which bad was more bad, because in the end BAD is BAD .... and ALL THE CHARACTERS have done it....

The problem is that Chloe's decisions (mostly bad), no matter how well intended lead to SEVERAL deaths. People were murdered by Davis and she covered it up. She slpit Davis and Doomsday, and Doomsday went on a rampage, killing innocent people in Metropolis. And it seems that Clark assumed that Lois is among them.

Then Davis kills immy after hearing Chloe amnnounce her love to Jimmy when she thinks he cannot hear her.

Body count alone, this can't just be label as 'bad' decision making.

donnarose

07-02-2009, 12:58 PM

I am grateful that Chloe survived however it would have been nicer if there was a happier approach!!:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\:\

Reporter

07-03-2009, 03:51 AM

But like I said, if you don't want to see something, you'll convince yourself to no end that it just isn't there. No matter what they show onscreen.Bias almost always plays a role in how we perceive things in television shows. However, that doesn't mean that I'm just not seeing it because I don't want to. That's a little unfair.

And in case this is being applied to Clark/Lois in general, Chloe fans aren't the only ones who don't like how they have handled the pairing and don't feel the romantic chemistry.

As for him telling Chloe there were so many times he wanted to tell her... there were so many times he wanted to tell anyone.I didn't know I said otherwise. Yes, Chloe was not the only one he wanted to let in on the secret, but my point was that had Chloe and Lana, for example, not known the secret, he probably would have voluntarily told them as well in the same circumstance.

I think their friendship has taken a drastic turn though, and I think fans should prepare themselves for that.Disappointment is nothing new to Chlark fans.

I want him to be angry at her. I want him to resent her. I want him to carry all the emotions alot of fans carry toward Chloe. I want her to redeem herself. I want her to gain back his trust, along with all of ours.I'd like to see Chloe a little mad at Clark for leaving her after she'd lost everyone else. I don't see why Clark would be mad at Chloe, especially as nothing in their final scene gave me the impression that he was. And I'm glad. Clark's a big boy and can make his own choices no matter what Chloe says. If he doesn't, then it's his own fault.

If they actually have him angry at her, then I am really done with Smallville. That's not the kind of person I want to watch become a hero.

And I hope Clark comes back for himself, and not for someone specifically. I hope he decides to return because he feels incomplete and he realizes he has a purpose and a destiny to fulfil.I agree.

Chloe is ONE of Clark's best friends. But I think its safe to say that after all this time, Lois and Clark consider themselves best friends. They've been through a lot together in the last year alone. He obviously trusts her, and she trusts him. It's not odd for him to have more than one best friend.He's never referred to her as his best friend, that is the point. I think Lois is a close friend, but if he were to name a best friend, then from what's been said and what I see - Chloe would be it.

And to be honest, it sounds so greedy when fans say that Chloe is Clark's only best friend because of "Infamous". Lois is just as much Clark's bff as Chloe is.It has been stated multiple times over the years that Chloe is Clark's best friend, as well as seen onscreen. They have never referred to Lois as such, however up until the finale she was his work partner, friend, and supposed love interest.

And I'm greedy?

LBDII

07-03-2009, 10:26 AM

Im honestly glad that Chloe survived. I think she should be there until the end its fun to have someone else from the start.

Saphira

12-18-2009, 10:34 AM

LOOOOL. i m happy she is alive. she is the only reason i watch the show. when she leaves i say goodbye to smallville.

Bigx07

02-26-2010, 08:39 AM

^^ agreed. Chloe is the bread and butter of Smallville and if she goes then I go.

Kneel before Zod

02-28-2010, 01:55 PM

No. I wish she died

wellinglover66

02-28-2010, 05:51 PM

^^ agreed. Chloe is the bread and butter of Smallville and if she goes then I go.

Prove it.:lol:

Nimkong

03-06-2010, 10:14 AM

I voted i wanna see her die.I liked her in the first few seasons but now i wanna see how the writers kill her off in a epic way.Because really she dident need to stay this long so make her die awsomely or make her a superhero!

DrEmil

05-03-2011, 04:28 PM

Smallville is entirely its own spin....it's like a new comic book...there is no other...it is its own series and story based on the same roots....this is the main reason I was mad with the whole Henry James Olsen thing....Jimmy didnt have to die because he was older....they had an awesome actor to be Jimmy and they blew it....he already had a great chemistry with both Lois and Clark(well near the end anyway because he was always jealous of him)....for me the best thing they could do in season 8 would be this: kill Chloe....now I know, I know....what the heck am I sayin? I LOVE CHLOE! Personally I think the show couldnt be without Chloe...BUT....there is a but....in the Legion episode we heard that history never heard of her and I think that in the end she had to die in Doomsday saving Clark or sth....that way in the future, Superman would have every excuse to be mad at the creature and Doomsday would have a reason to shout "Metropolis" every now and again as he did in the comics while he headed that way...Jimmy would be alive and older and with a great actor portraying him and Chloe, a character just for the show would have served her purpose....and Boom! There's your re imagining....whats this whole line with mytholgy craziness thats been going on...? I dont know....for me that would be the perfect ending for Chole and season 8 and in season 9 that would be a much more believable excuse for Clark to wear black and he and Jimmy would be close friends having the memory of Chloe bonding them further....and of course a more beliavable excuse for Oliver to be drunk all the time....having one of them die because of their mistakes....Jimmy was never that close with Oliver and he became more close with Clark near the end...sorry I rumbled....but Doomsday would be better in my opinion with all these....