When clark said "you're not one of us anymore.."

[um4rio]

did anyone else expect oliver to say "ERM...THESE ARE MY FRIENDS! YOU GO AWAY!!" :o

[Kschreck]

Kind of, the rest of them partnered up with Oliver anyways after that. :lol:

[amandaa125]

lol yea i was thinking oliver would have done something, i knew they would take olivers side anyways though ahha

[Deana]

I wanted him to say it sooo bad but tricking Super Kent into thinking he was running things was kind of awesome too.

Oliver: I put this team together, you butt hole.

[Clark_smallville4ever]

i think he let it go because he knew they were on his side, and we see that when they turn on clark once they get doomsday i think all three of them realized what the right thing to do was yet clark didnt

[Dyanara]

I want to smack Oliver and think he is possibly on the route to becoming the new Lex...but even I was like "huh? Whacu talkin about Kent"

[jpfort1957]

They just played along with Clark...........they knew Ollie was right, and kept him informed.

[prodigykane]

That was hilarious...I knew it all along

[skye4376]

though in the end, clark was right, at least the way i see it. and each member of the justice league, clark befriended before ollie did.

[O'Neill]

I think TJL knew they had to play along.... as part of their plan. Good for them. At least some of them were acting as a team.

[johnr90]

This cracked me up a little. Clark kinda got a big head with the situation and got set back in his place. Hahahahah. I would have been MAD if I were Oliver.

[dru-zod2501]

I loved it. Clark stepping up to set the league straight; too bad they're nothing but turncoat m#$@$%%$#!!!!!!

[madcatlady]

I loved it. Clark stepping up to set the league straight; too bad they're nothing but turncoat m#$@$%%$#!!!!!!

I thought that line was a bit overdramatic. It's like saying "you're not my friend", when you get into a fight over a toy as a child.

The way they turned on Clark afterwards, for whatever reason, was not cool. They NEVER would have been able to pull that on Batman.

[drew24]

I thought that line was a bit overdramatic. It's like saying "you're not my friend", when you get into a fight over a toy as a child.

The way they turned on Clark afterwards, for whatever reason, was not cool. They NEVER would have been able to pull that on Batman.

Agree, Where's Bruce Wayne when you need him.:\

[BadToad]

I loved it. Clark stepping up to set the league straight; too bad they're nothing but turncoat m#$@$%%$#!!!!!!

Word!!

When all is said and done, Clark never should've trusted them at all, and thats so sad. If they didn't agree with Clark, and preferred to go along with Oliver, then they should've had the guts and character to just tell him that. Instead, they were sneaky creeps.

And yeah, Oliver put the team together. And who was it that originally saved Bart and helped him turn around? Clark. Who was it that got Bart out of the torture chamber Lex designed? Clark. Who was it that sped Dinah away before Lex's bullet hit her right in the chest? Clark.

I understand loyalty to Oliver. I don't understand stabbing Clark in the back, and doing it in such a cold, and unfeeling manner. Really, WTH did Clark ever do to these people to deserve that?

And in the end, NONE of them were capable of handling the situation. NONE of them stood a chance. All of them are just lucky that the show is so lame that they had Doomsday just leave them there sleeping and left peacefully to go find pants. Because if there was any justice, at least one or two of them would be missing a few limbs.

I'd be absolutely fine if Clark chooses never to work with any of those 3 again. I thought what they did was beyond heinous, and I don't think any of them are remotely heroic. JMO

[Night_Hawk90]

i found myself saying who is clark to say this when he isnt even part of the justice league? Oliver funded their whole operation bringing the league together so i didnt understand clark here,

[BadToad]

i found myself saying who is clark to say this when he isnt even part of the justice league? Oliver funded their whole operation bringing the league together so i didnt understand clark here,

Whats to understand? Clark made the mistaken assumption that other "heroes" would want to try and contain the situation without also killing the "human" side of Davis, and he thought that "heroes" would not want to be associated with someone that planned and executed premeditated murder.

Seems pretty clear to me.

However, Clark was wrong. Dinah and Bart are apparently A-OK with premeditated murder, and following a guy that preaches that philosophy. They are also A-OK with stabbing Clark in the back, and leaving him helpless and writhing in pain, bleeding on the ground. They are also A-OK with being pwned because they have no freaking plan at all.

I hope Clark learned his lesson. These are not his allies, and not his friends. JMO

[Myrddin]

Word!!

When all is said and done, Clark never should've trusted them at all, and thats so sad. If they didn't agree with Clark, and preferred to go along with Oliver, then they should've had the guts and character to just tell him that. Instead, they were sneaky creeps.

And yeah, Oliver put the team together. And who was it that originally saved Bart and helped him turn around? Clark. Who was it that got Bart out of the torture chamber Lex designed? Clark. Who was it that sped Dinah away before Lex's bullet hit her right in the chest? Clark.

I understand loyalty to Oliver. I don't understand stabbing Clark in the back, and doing it in such a cold, and unfeeling manner. Really, WTH did Clark ever do to these people to deserve that?

ETA - I like how Clark told Ollie that if they become killers then they are no better than those that they fight. And it was in the same episode where they had to lock up the members of the Lgion of Doom. People who were also trying to find DD so that they could kill him. People who then went after Tess and wanted to kill her because she was killing members of the LoD for not going along with her. Yet Ollie thought that they were wrong. What was different from what they were doing (trying to kill a murderer) from what he wanted to do (try to kill a murderer). It is a fine line that leads down a dark path. Clark sees that. Ollie and his gang do not yet.

And in the end, NONE of them were capable of handling the situation. NONE of them stood a chance. All of them are just lucky that the show is so lame that they had Doomsday just leave them there sleeping and left peacefully to go find pants. Because if there was any justice, at least one or two of them would be missing a few limbs.

I'd be absolutely fine if Clark chooses never to work with any of those 3 again. I thought what they did was beyond heinous, and I don't think any of them are remotely heroic. JMO

I cannot express hpow much I hope that I hope they address their betrayal of Clark next season. I feel that Tess's allusion to the Judas was not DD (as she thought) but the JLA.

I think that is why they all left/disappeared in the end. Because they could not face Clark. Not just disagreeing with him. But the betrayal and the shot in the FRIGGIN BACK with KRYPTONITE. Bart especially had to feel that.

[Night_Hawk90]

Whats to understand? Clark made the mistaken assumption that other "heroes" would want to try and contain the situation without also killing the "human" side of Davis, and he thought that "heroes" would not want to be associated with someone that planned and executed premeditated murder.

Seems pretty clear to me.

However, Clark was wrong. Dinah and Bart are apparently A-OK with premeditated murder, and following a guy that preaches that philosophy. They are also A-OK with stabbing Clark in the back, and leaving him helpless and writhing in pain, bleeding on the ground. They are also A-OK with being pwned because they have no freaking plan at all.

I hope Clark learned his lesson. These are not his allies, and not his friends. JMO
when i say i didnt understand i meant clark had no right to tell oliver he is not one of them anymore clark is not even a jl member so he had no right to tell oliver that imo.

[BadToad]

when i say i didnt understand i meant clark had no right to tell oliver he is not one of them anymore clark is not even a jl member so he had no right to tell oliver that imo.

Well, again, Clark made the mistake in believing that they were all bonded with a moral purpose and code. In Hex, we do know that Clark was off working with Bart. Dr Emil seems to know Clark quite well, so I don't agree that Clark isn't a JL member. Apparently, he is for all intents and purposes. At least in Offscreensville (where a far better show takes place).

But more then that, he mistakenly believed that these people were his friends, and that he would trust them, and that they would be as appalled by murder as a preemptive action as he was.

And he was wrong. Completely wrong.

IMO, its not hard to see all the different things that led to Clark wanting to deny his human side at the end.

[Jawth]

Well, again, Clark made the mistake in believing that they were all bonded with a moral purpose and code. In Hex, we do know that Clark was off working with Bart. Dr Emil seems to know Clark quite well, so I don't agree that Clark isn't a JL member. Apparently, he is for all intents and purposes. At least in Offscreensville (where a far better show takes place).

But more then that, he mistakenly believed that these people were his friends, and that he would trust them, and that they would be as appalled by murder as a preemptive action as he was.

And he was wrong. Completely wrong.

IMO, its not hard to see all the different things that led to Clark wanting to deny his human side at the end.

I really don't see how Clark didn't hear a arrow firing, run around the world and flick Ollie in the back of the head. What's Bart gonna do, seriously?

Or hear Oliver's heartbeat and just keep running.

[WhoRU?]

I really don't see how Clark didn't hear a arrow firing, run around the world and flick Ollie in the back of the head. What's Bart gonna do, seriously?

Or hear Oliver's heartbeat and just keep running.

It was mention on SW that he he needs to "superhears" by focusing, like all things with normal hearing does filter out sounds when you are not focusing.

[cma_454]

I cannot express hpow much I hope that I hope they address their betrayal of Clark next season...

While that would be nice, I don't see it happening. If the writers stay true to form the JL members will just tell Clark they did it all for him, and he'll take all the blame.:rolleyes:

[CreamPuffer]

I cannot express hpow much I hope that I hope they address their betrayal of Clark next season. I feel that Tess's allusion to the Judas was not DD (as she thought) but the JLA.

I think that is why they all left/disappeared in the end. Because they could not face Clark. Not just disagreeing with him. But the betrayal and the shot in the FRIGGIN BACK with KRYPTONITE. Bart especially had to feel that.

I didn't get Tess's Judas comment at all. It wasn't like Davis was bff with Clark to begin with and he never even came close to stabbing Clark in the back at all. Seriously, to be considered Judas would mean that you are close to someone and then you betray them. Hmmmm....kinda sounds like Olivers. :rolleyes: Maybe, that was a clue that Oliver would do something like that. Oliver is turning into the new Lex, which is expected since he was the one to kill Lex and took over Lex's mantle.

[O'Neill]

The problem is that there are way too many legalities that the fans have put on this.

Oliver wanted to take care of business and not waste time. Theres a raging monster on the loose, and theres no hope of saving him. Oliver had the right idea. Either get rid of Davis, or let him continue to kill innocent people.

Clark, wanted to try and save Davis. This is understandable, however anyone in their right mind would know that there is no hope for him. Even Davis himself agreed that he needed to die. Clark should have seen this, but his emotions got in the way.

How come no one complains about Davis killing so many innocent people? Or what about Chloe killing the guy in the hospital?

Clark and Oliver need to sit down, and come to some kind of agreement. Oliver has saved Clarks butt way too many times for Clark to say "You're not one of us anymore". If thats the case, then maybe Oliver should hang back next time and let Clark deal with his enemies himself....... ..... ..... bent over somewhere in a corner weakend by kryptonite.

They both need each other, but theres way too much pride in both of them. Martian Manhunter was right.

[dru-zod2501]

Whats to understand? Clark made the mistaken assumption that other "heroes" would want to try and contain the situation without also killing the "human" side of Davis, and he thought that "heroes" would not want to be associated with someone that planned and executed premeditated murder.

Seems pretty clear to me.

However, Clark was wrong. Dinah and Bart are apparently A-OK with premeditated murder, and following a guy that preaches that philosophy. They are also A-OK with stabbing Clark in the back, and leaving him helpless and writhing in pain, bleeding on the ground. They are also A-OK with being pwned because they have no freaking plan at all.

I hope Clark learned his lesson. These are not his allies, and not his friends. JMO
this deserves repetition!

[sithius]

I thought that too lol, Oliver should have said 'AFAIK Clark... you aren't even a member officially, so shut up!'.

I hope when Clark is back to normal again he doesn't let this go. When they stabbed him in the back, I instantly thought 'Screw you Bart, you are no Wally' (the awesome character we saw in the JL cartoon voiced by none other than Michael Rosenbaum himself :D) because frankly they make me sick. Bring on Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, Flash (Wally), Bats, Hawkgirl and make J'onn a member then we will have a real Justice League. This joke composing of Oliver, Bart and Dinah (and Aquaman/Cyborg?) are a group all right, but they are no heroes. I refuse to call these lot the Justice League.

[BadToad]

How come no one complains about Davis killing so many innocent people? Or what about Chloe killing the guy in the hospital?

*raises hand* I do. I have. All the freaking time.

I am always so amazed at how quickly people are ready to glaze over what people NOT named Clark do.


Clark and Oliver need to sit down, and come to some kind of agreement. Oliver has saved Clarks butt way too many times for Clark to say "You're not one of us anymore". If thats the case, then maybe Oliver should hang back next time and let Clark deal with his enemies himself....... ..... ..... bent over somewhere in a corner weakend by kryptonite.

And Clark has never done anything to save Oliver? Shall I name all the examples? Surely he's done enough to save Oliver, and Dinah, and Bart, and AC, and Victor that it merits him not being stabbed in the back and left on the ground bleeding, right?

Its absolutely amazing to me that Clark saying "You aren't one of us anymore" is equated as some sort of bigger sin that Oliver shooting kryptonite at Clark. As if these 2 things are even remotely comparable.

Yes, Oliver has been there for Clark. And Clark has been there for Oliver. But that doesn't change the fact that Oliver has gone off the rails a bit. How is Clark supposed to work with that?

Its like Clark is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't. He knows Oliver murdered Lex. If he just skims over that and works with Oliver, then it makes his stance about not killing pretty weak, doesn't it? But if he takes a stand against Oliver, and refuses to work with him, then Clark is accused of not being a team player.

What the heck?


I thought that too lol, Oliver should have said 'AFAIK Clark... you aren't even a member officially, so shut up!'.

And I could at least have some respect for that. At least it would be upfront, honest, and puts the cards on the table.

But how do we know Clark isn't officially a member? Did he not learn the secret handshake? He was off on a mission with Bart at the beginning of Hex. Sounds like Clark is working with them to me.

[smithy698]

Word!!

When all is said and done, Clark never should've trusted them at all, and thats so sad. If they didn't agree with Clark, and preferred to go along with Oliver, then they should've had the guts and character to just tell him that. Instead, they were sneaky creeps.

And yeah, Oliver put the team together. And who was it that originally saved Bart and helped him turn around? Clark. Who was it that got Bart out of the torture chamber Lex designed? Clark. Who was it that sped Dinah away before Lex's bullet hit her right in the chest? Clark.

I understand loyalty to Oliver. I don't understand stabbing Clark in the back, and doing it in such a cold, and unfeeling manner. Really, WTH did Clark ever do to these people to deserve that?

And in the end, NONE of them were capable of handling the situation. NONE of them stood a chance. All of them are just lucky that the show is so lame that they had Doomsday just leave them there sleeping and left peacefully to go find pants. Because if there was any justice, at least one or two of them would be missing a few limbs.

I'd be absolutely fine if Clark chooses never to work with any of those 3 again. I thought what they did was beyond heinous, and I don't think any of them are remotely heroic. JMO

And who saved Clark from the room full of kryptonite so that he could go and save Bart? Oliver, if my memory of Justice serves me correctly. Just as he's saved Clark's butt on a number of other occasions, and Jimmy's, and AC's - but then we mustn't mention those instances, because they don't fit in with the one dimensional characterisation of Oliver as some sort of villain. I'm not saying he hasn't made mistakes, because he has - but too often people forget the number of times he's saved lives and done the right thing. That's why Bart and Dinah backed him - he's earned the position of leader, in a way that Clark, at best a semi detached member of the League, has failed to do.

Oliver built that team, and Clark was arrogant to think he could tell the others who was their true leader.

But then this is St Clark, so I suppose he is beyond reproach :rolleyes:

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


did anyone else expect oliver to say "ERM...THESE ARE MY FRIENDS! YOU GO AWAY!!" :o

Absolutely right!

[BadToad]

And who saved Clark from the room full of kryptonite so that he could go and save Bart? Oliver, if my memory of Justice serves me correctly.


Yeah, and prior to that, who protected Oliver's identity from Lois? Who was able to pull Oliver back when he was injecting himself with a drug? Who saved Oliver's life in Reunion?

I'm not disputing that Oliver has helped out Clark, and saved his life. Just as Clark has done the same for him. But the fact remains that Oliver has really gone rogue this season. He murdered someone. Bad guy, good guy, doesn't matter. That isn't supposed to be what the JLA does. Is Oliver really the guy that should be leading other heroes at the moment?


Oliver built that team, whilst Clark has to date refused to join - Clark was arrogant to think he could tell the others who was their true leader.

And Oliver wouldn't have anyone to build with if Clark hadn't saved Bart, AC, Victor and Dinah, would he?

Actually, Clark didn't tell ANYONE who their true leader was. He never claimed that they must all follow him. He just believed, obviously wrongly, that unstable homicidal "heroes" probably shouldn't be among their ranks. Not if they are actually going to stand for something. I think Clark's sentiments were right, but obviously Clark overestimated the character of those around him. A mistake I sincerely hope he doesn't make again.

And again, since most people apparently don't pay much attention to the show, Clark was off working with Bart in Hex. Does that sound like someone who "refused to join"?


But then this is St Clark, so I suppose he is beyond reproach

Yes, thats obviously what I, and others, were saying :rolleyes:

[smithy698]

I agree that Oliver made a mistake in killing Lex - but it irritates me when all the good he has done is just ignored. I hope and believe that we will see Oliver achieve redemption next season - the idea that he is the new Lex seems to me too absurd for words.

[LuthorKent90]

did anyone else expect oliver to say "ERM...THESE ARE MY FRIENDS! YOU GO AWAY!!" :o

I expected something to that affect.:lol:

[Myrddin]

We are not saying hta tOllie has not done good - we are saying tha tClark is right to say that the JLA needs to stand for something. Or they are no better than those that they fight.

And if Bart and Dinah had a problem with what Clark wanted to do then they should have told CLARK.

I do not think that it was just a coincidence that Tess always spoke of a Judas. And that the JLA then worked togehter to shoot Clark IN THE BACK.

[O'Neill]

Heres the problem... Clark is not ready to be a leader, or make "plans" in any situation.

Heres why.... He had a plan to throw DD into the phantom zone, right? But then little miss drama queen jumped in the way, and stopped him.... and he didnt do anything about it!!

He had a plan, then didnt follow through with it, because a little blonde headed girl said not too. Sorry Clark, but you should have thrown both of them in there.

I think Oliver knows this, and see's that Clark cant even follow through with his own plans, therefore Oliver had to step in..... who else was going to do it?

[haydenclaireheroes]

i xpecting him to say what are you talking about.

[Night_Hawk90]

Heres the problem... Clark is not ready to be a leader, or make "plans" in any situation.

Heres why.... He had a plan to throw DD into the phantom zone, right? But then little miss drama queen jumped in the way, and stopped him.... and he didnt do anything about it!!

He had a plan, then didnt follow through with it, because a little blonde headed girl said not too. Sorry Clark, but you should have thrown both of them in there.

I think Oliver knows this, and see's that Clark cant even follow through with his own plans, therefore Oliver had to step in..... who else was going to do it?

exactly oliver atleast goes through with his plans while clark always stalls as if he is unsure of himself and that right there is bad writing.

[BadToad]

I think Oliver knows this, and see's that Clark cant even follow through with his own plans, therefore Oliver had to step in..... who else was going to do it?

Only Oliver was completely incapable of following through with that plan without Clark around. Honestly, did Oliver think this through at all? Did it ever enter his mind that no one of his "team" was even remotely able to handle a superpowered kryptonian without any weakness to kryptonite? Apparently not.

And lets also say that Jimmy hadn't come across Clark, and taken Oliver's arrow out of his back. How many more people would Doomsday have killed because Oliver and his team had no ability to control the situation, and the one person that might be the answer is laying face down, in pain, bleeding?

And this is the guy that should lead? This is the genius that is so much better equipped to give orders then Clark?

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with that. Bigtime.

Clark may question his decisions, but that isn't always a bad thing. In the case of Chloe talking him about the Phantom Zone, I actually agree that Clark made the mistake and let Chloe sway his decision. His mistake, and it was a big one. I hope thats something he'll learn from But after that? Clark was actually coming up with solutions. Workable solutions. He kept thinking through the problem. And had Oliver and his team not stabbed Clark in the back, its possible that Doomsday would never have gotten away, and hurt anyone. And then they'd have only Davis to contend with, and thats something Oliver and his followers could've handled. And Clark was the only one coming up with a plan. What did Oliver have in mind if Clark hadn't thought up the Geothermal Plant? *crickets chirping* Apparently, other then repeatedly telling Clark to "Kill him!", he had nothing.

[O'Neill]

Only Oliver was completely incapable of following through with that plan without Clark around. Honestly, did Oliver think this through at all? Did it ever enter his mind that no one of his "team" was even remotely able to handle a superpowered kryptonian without any weakness to kryptonite? Apparently not.

And lets also say that Jimmy hadn't come across Clark, and taken Oliver's arrow out of his back. How many more people would Doomsday have killed because Oliver and his team had no ability to control the situation, and the one person that might be the answer is laying face down, in pain, bleeding?

And this is the guy that should lead? This is the genius that is so much better equipped to give orders then Clark?

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with that. Bigtime.

Clark may question his decisions, but that isn't always a bad thing. In the case of Chloe talking him about the Phantom Zone, I actually agree that Clark made the mistake and let Chloe sway his decision. His mistake, and it was a big one. I hope thats something he'll learn from But after that? Clark was actually coming up with solutions. Workable solutions. He kept thinking through the problem. And had Oliver and his team not stabbed Clark in the back, its possible that Doomsday would never have gotten away, and hurt anyone. And then they'd have only Davis to contend with, and thats something Oliver and his followers could've handled. And Clark was the only one coming up with a plan. What did Oliver have in mind if Clark hadn't thought up the Geothermal Plant? *crickets chirping* Apparently, other then repeatedly telling Clark to "Kill him!", he had nothing.

It appeared as though they had him subdued on the floor. Ide say that was a start.

Yet this entire problem could have been avoided if Clark would have stuck with his plan.

Im not saying Olivers plan was the best, but he seems to be the only one that has the brass to follow through. He is currently the only one capable of being a leader. After-all, he leads a huge company (Queen Industries) so im going to have to go with him for leadership skills, compared to Clarks.

Im still going to stick my original thought that both of them have issues, and until they sit down and come to some agreement on how to handle problems, these stupid issues will continue to arise.

[LJ-90]

Man...Clark should met Batman by now...I think Bruce would be the only one to agree with Clark in the whole "Let's not kill DD, but YES we'll use our brains to think in a better solution"

And if the JL still pulled that move on Clark, Batman would had kicked their asses, nobody messes with the Superman/Batman duo.

No one

[SGuthrie27]

Y'know, I could've seen Dinah siding with Ollie, perhaps. We know that they eventually become an item in the comics, and her reasoning even makes a little sense, too, but they way they took him out was so cold... And it shocks me that Bart would make a choice like that when Clark was the guy who turned him to heroism in the first place! C'mon, I know he's Impulse, but does he have to be THAT impulsive?

As for the comment about "You're not one of us anymore," that was pretty cold. It wasn't as though Clark had talked it through with Bart and Dinah and explained everything beforehand. I think that the pair agrees with Clark's version of heroism in most respects, but they were also willing to do everything to ensure that Doomsday was no longer a threat and that Clark was protected. That's why they stood with him at the beginning, to show that they understood and respected his point of view, and then turned into lousy traitors by the end of the episode (who then were embarrassedly all-too-willing to follow Clark's chain of command when things went majorly south). The fact is, if they'd let Clark come with them and use his plan, in all likelihood, he could've immediately snuck up behind Doomy and plunged him into that tunnel without any more loss of life and BEFORE Davis was knocked out, perhaps changing what happened later in the episode...

But I'm digressing again. Anyway, did Clark have a right to "vote Oliver off the island," so to speak? No, I don't think so, especially since Oliver gathered that group in the first place and Clark initially refused to join forces full-time. But did the other proto-Justice League members have a right to know about Ollie's underhanded shady dealings and the murder of Lex? Yes. Did Clark go about it the right way? Not necessarily, but I think it was his way of drawing a line in the sand.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[BadToad]

It appeared as though they had him subdued on the floor. Ide say that was a start.

Yeah, I'm sure those plastic ties on his wrist were going to do the trick. And standing around staring at him was also a stroke of genius.


Yet this entire problem could have been avoided if Clark would have stuck with his plan.

And then could've been avoided again if the people around Clark has tried to work with him instead of against him when he came up with alternate plans.


Im not saying Olivers plan was the best, but he seems to be the only one that has the brass to follow through. He is currently the only one capable of being a leader. After-all, he leads a huge company (Queen Industries) so im going to have to go with him for leadership skills, compared to Clarks.

Yeah, lets not even worry about the whole murder thing. I'd say that should definitely be a part of the mix, and part of a consideration when determining who should lead.

Personally, I don't think there should be any leader because I don't see a cohesive group of people who are remotely intelligent or qualified enough to call themself heroes. Clark is better off on his own for the time being. Oliver, Dinah and Bart all need a nap!

[O'Neill]

Oh, im sure this could keep going, but seeing as how ive overlooked your title, theres no use in me saying anything else.

Clarks plan failed, Olivers plan failed, and im fairly confident all other plans would have failed as well. After-all, Clark is still young, arrogant, and a bit of a coward. On the other hand, Oliver is a hot headed rich kid who acts before thinking. Sure, no one like the idea of murder, but c'mon, you mean that killing (or at least trying to kill) an unstoppable beast is wrong?

I would rather kill the enemy, than let them kill me.

[BadToad]

Oh, im sure this could keep going, but seeing as how ive overlooked your title, theres no use in me saying anything else.

Yeah, what can I say? I'm one of those rare people that watch the show and actually likes and roots for Clark. Its nutty! ;)


Sure, no one like the idea of murder, but c'mon, you mean that killing (or at least trying to kill) an unstoppable beast is wrong?

I don't think Lex Luthor was an unstoppable beast, and thats who Oliver murdered (at least as far as he, and we, know).


I would rather kill the enemy, than let them kill me.

Sounds like a really inspiring motto for the new JLA. Or, maybe they can try "Making the world safer, one preemptive murder at a time". :lol:

[LJ-90]

Sounds like a really inspiring motto for the new JLA. Or, maybe they can try "Making the world safer, one preemptive murder at a time". :lol:

:lol:

Hey, I like Clark too...when he is in his "My responsability is to do what's right!" persona...he's awesome there.

[SnowBird]

With friends like the Justice League, who needs enemies. I was just so disappointed with the JL for ganging up on Clark and Oliver shooting him with Kryptonite. Clark could have died if Jimmy didn't come to his rescue.

What happened to Oliver's big plan? They all ended up unconscious and bleeding on the floor. Doomsday is off to Metropolis terrorizing the city. The mother is sent crashing through a window. The little girl in the clutches of Doomsday ready to be crushed. Clark catches a car that would have rolled down the street killing pedestrians. He saves the little girl from DD. He super leaps Doomsday deep into the ground saving the world.

The JL are miserable traitors but still Clark forgives and includes them in his plan to stop Doomsday. Did I say CLARK'S PLAN? Yes, the super dude who saves the day and the world. Yet, Clark takes no fame for his selfless act, forgives his friends. and always takes responsibility for his actions. He was crushed when Jimmy was killed. Taking the blame upon his shoulders when there is so much blame to go around. Is there anyone stepping up confessing their part in Jimmy's death...NO! We get a tear from Ollie. Jimmy was working for Ollie putting him in the middle. We get a "I know who killed Jimmy" from Chloe who divided Davis from DD without Clark's help causing her to be responsible for upcoming events. Where was Clark when Chloe hit DD with black Kryptonite? Oh yes, writhing on the ground infected with the Kryptonite dart Ollie shot Clark with. Does the JL take responsibility for their mistakes? No, they disappear without a word after Jimmy's funeral.

Why would Ollie shoot Clark with Kryptonite causing the big mess that followed? Well, poor Ollie got his feelings hurt because Clark said, "You aren't one of us anymore." Why would Clark say that? Because Ollie murdered Lex! Ollie has forgotten what being a super hero is all about and Clark called him out on it.

Many mistakes by people close to Clark. Yet, why do SV fans blame Clark for everything that goes wrong in Smallville? I am baffled. BadToad has given the best posts in Clark's defense. Just let me say thank you for always being on Clark's side. There are so few of us here and Clark deserves better. He is why there even is a Smallville. You would think he was the villain the way people act.

Clark is a true Super Hero and I'm so proud of him. He deserves to be treated like the hero he is.

[O'Neill]

This thread is hilarious.

Both Clark and Oliver were wrong. Oliver needed to be a little more forthcoming with Clark, and Clark had no right to tell Oliver "you're not one of us anymore". Thats being a little hypocritical. After-all, Chloe kill the guy in the hospital, but Clark never got an attitude with her. (Perhaps he doesnt know).

The whole deal with TJL disabling Clark with the dart was rather stupid writing in my opinion.

And if anyone is to blame for Jimmy's death, I think a big chunk of it can rest on Clarks shoulders. After-all, Clark thought Davis was innocent.... oops! I guess not.

Im not trying to take Olivers side, or Clarks side. Im just pointing out mistakes on both sides. If anything, ill be a fan when the two of them get rid of their arrogance and pride, and team up with the same goal. Until then, ill continue to sit back and wait for the writers/producers to create something better than what they've been making.

[SnowBird]

This thread is hilarious.

Both Clark and Oliver were wrong. Oliver needed to be a little more forthcoming with Clark, and Clark had no right to tell Oliver "you're not one of us anymore". Thats being a little hypocritical. After-all, Chloe kill the guy in the hospital, but Clark never got an attitude with her. (Perhaps he doesnt know).

The whole deal with TJL disabling Clark with the dart was rather stupid writing in my opinion.

And if anyone is to blame for Jimmy's death, I think a big chunk of it can rest on Clarks shoulders. After-all, Clark thought Davis was innocent.... oops! I guess not.

Im not trying to take Olivers side, or Clarks side. Im just pointing out mistakes on both sides. If anything, ill be a fan when the two of them get rid of their arrogance and pride, and team up with the same goal. Until then, ill continue to sit back and wait for the writers/producers to create something better than what they've been making.

I'm sure if Davis would have survived, Clark would have taken him to the authorities to be tried in a legal court of law. Clark by no means thought Davis was innocent.

Jimmy's death will rest on Clark's shoulders because no one will come clean with their own actions.

[silverkryptonite507]

I agree that Oliver made a mistake in killing Lex - but it irritates me when all the good he has done is just ignored. I hope and believe that we will see Oliver achieve redemption next season - the idea that he is the new Lex seems to me too absurd for words.

Killing Lex wasn't a mistake. Ollie admittedly did it on PURPOSE. He wasn't SORRY about it.

Did he do good things way back in season 6? Yes. But should those actions erase the ugliness of his current actions?

Heck no.

[SGuthrie27]

In regards to the matter of Davis' innocence or guilt being a part of Clark's or the Justice League's decisions as to his fate, I don't think that any of them thought that he was completely innocent in his human form, but Clark had enough reason to suspect that he was "basically a good guy" whose genetically engineered monster was taking control of him with increasing frequency and causing his violent tendencies. The way Davis tried to do everything to stop his changes and even his attempts to kill himself seemed to show that he wished he could be anything other than the beast he was becoming.

Anyway, you had some interesting points, Snowbird, in regards to how parts of this episode could be portrayed as Biblical allegory. All of Clark's friends deserted him when he needed them to stand by him most. Oliver stalked away just as Judas left the table during the Last Supper, and then the other Justice League members abandoned him, as the other disciples ended up doing in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was arrested. And yes, he took the blame for situations and actions that he had no control over, and did everything he could to save Davis, thinking even he was redeemable in spite of his actions. There were definitely some symbolic connections there. It's just ironic that the Justice League, more than Chloe or Davis, appeared to be the most Judas-like in their treatment of Clark in "Doomsday."

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Exedore]

So, keeping in line with the Biblical parallels, I suppose Rokk was the angel who visited Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane and "strengthened" him (although in this case it was more of a warning and assurance of a plan).

[SnowBird]

In regards to the matter of Davis' innocence or guilt being a part of Clark's or the Justice League's decisions as to his fate, I don't think that any of them thought that he was completely innocent in his human form, but Clark had enough reason to suspect that he was "basically a good guy" whose genetically engineered monster was taking control of him with increasing frequency and causing his violent tendencies. The way Davis tried to do everything to stop his changes and even his attempts to kill himself seemed to show that he wished he could be anything other than the beast he was becoming.

Anyway, you had some interesting points, Snowbird, in regards to how parts of this episode could be portrayed as Biblical allegory. All of Clark's friends deserted him when he needed them to stand by him most. Oliver stalked away just as Judas left the table during the Last Supper, and then the other Justice League members abandoned him, as the other disciples ended up doing in the Garden of Gethsemane when Jesus was arrested. And yes, he took the blame for situations and actions that he had no control over, and did everything he could to save Davis, thinking even he was redeemable in spite of his actions. There were definitely some symbolic connections there. It's just ironic that the Justice League, more than Chloe or Davis, appeared to be the most Judas-like in their treatment of Clark in "Doomsday."

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

I deleted my post about Clark being like Jesus and began a thread if you want to post your ideas there. Thanks.

[Dyanara]

Im sorry but I am starting to think that what Oliver did was unforgivable. He knows the affects of Kryptonite on Clark and yet he shot him with it anyway. I guess this season starts with Oliver almost killing CLark and it ends the same way. If I was Clark I wouldnt forgive any of them, I would only use them in the plan because I needed to.

[LJ-90]

^I hope that happens.
I mean, damm, the guy shot him with a Kryptonite dart!
That's not cool.
And Oliver it's kinda crazy, he is just misguiaded, he wants to do what's right then he should start to listen to Clark.
After all the Injustice speech pretty much sums up what a hero is about.

[cma_454]

I'm sure if Davis would have survived, Clark would have taken him to the authorities to be tried in a legal court of law. Clark by no means thought Davis was innocent...

I wish I could agree with you, since this is what Superman would do(IMHO).

With Smallville's Clark Kent though, I tend to doubt it. Especially since it would also involve legal consequences for Davis' accessory. You know, the one that disposed of one of his victims in the dumpster, hid him from authorities, ran away with him, and even committed her own murder (Sebastian).

[patrese]

With friends like the Justice League, who needs enemies. I was just so disappointed with the JL for ganging up on Clark and Oliver shooting him with Kryptonite. Clark could have died if Jimmy didn't come to his rescue.

What happened to Oliver's big plan? They all ended up unconscious and bleeding on the floor. Doomsday is off to Metropolis terrorizing the city. The mother is sent crashing through a window. The little girl in the clutches of Doomsday ready to be crushed. Clark catches a car that would have rolled down the street killing pedestrians. He saves the little girl from DD. He super leaps Doomsday deep into the ground saving the world.

The JL are miserable traitors but still Clark forgives and includes them in his plan to stop Doomsday. Did I say CLARK'S PLAN? Yes, the super dude who saves the day and the world. Yet, Clark takes no fame for his selfless act, forgives his friends. and always takes responsibility for his actions. He was crushed when Jimmy was killed. Taking the blame upon his shoulders when there is so much blame to go around. Is there anyone stepping up confessing their part in Jimmy's death...NO! We get a tear from Ollie. Jimmy was working for Ollie putting him in the middle. We get a "I know who killed Jimmy" from Chloe who divided Davis from DD without Clark's help causing her to be responsible for upcoming events. Where was Clark when Chloe hit DD with black Kryptonite? Oh yes, writhing on the ground infected with the Kryptonite dart Ollie shot Clark with. Does the JL take responsibility for their mistakes? No, they disappear without a word after Jimmy's funeral.

Why would Ollie shoot Clark with Kryptonite causing the big mess that followed? Well, poor Ollie got his feelings hurt because Clark said, "You aren't one of us anymore." Why would Clark say that? Because Ollie murdered Lex! Ollie has forgotten what being a super hero is all about and Clark called him out on it.

Many mistakes by people close to Clark. Yet, why do SV fans blame Clark for everything that goes wrong in Smallville? I am baffled. BadToad has given the best posts in Clark's defense. Just let me say thank you for always being on Clark's side. There are so few of us here and Clark deserves better. He is why there even is a Smallville. You would think he was the villain the way people act.

Clark is a true Super Hero and I'm so proud of him. He deserves to be treated like the hero he is.


Absolutely agree with you!

[redheadluvgoddess]

See, I like Clark (most of the time) and I like Ollie (most of the time). I like the JL (most of the time) and I like Chloe (most of the time.) Wow, that's redundant. Anyway, I agree that Clark had a legitimate concern over Oliver's state of mind and his ability to lead.

Do I believe that he had the right to act so high-handed and treat Oliver that way? No. He's supposed to be the future Superman. He's the man who thinks DAVIS is worth saving. He writes Oliver off immediately? Uhh... seriously? As far as I'm concerned, Clark was out of line and I DID expect Oliver to tell him so. Aside from an off-handed comment or two about Clark working with the JL in Offscreenville, I can't see that he has anything do to with the regular activities of the JL. As such, who the hell is he to come in and kick Oliver out of the league OLIVER started? Sorry, but no.

Do I agree with what the JL did? No. I think (like Chloe), their intentions were good but the execution was poor. They thought that Davis was a threat that needed to be contained and that Clark was going to either a.) get in the way or b.) get himself killed. They should have been honest with him, yeah, and they all should have talked and planned something do-able. IMO, both sides of this (Clark and the JL - and okay, Chloe) were in the wrong. Instead of working together, everyone decided that their plan/view/opinion was better/right/the answer.

[SnowBird]

I wish I could agree with you, since this is what Superman would do(IMHO).

With Smallville's Clark Kent though, I tend to doubt it. Especially since it would also involve legal consequences for Davis' accessory. You know, the one that disposed of one of his victims in the dumpster, hid him from authorities, ran away with him, and even committed her own murder (Sebastian).

Clark doesn't know everything Chloe did that was illegal except run off with Davis, and probably he won't unless Chloe comes clean with him. We will never find out what Clark would do with Davis since he's dead, but I think there would be some consequences Davis would have to face. Clark has turned in many law breakers over to the authorities so you can't say for sure he wouldn't turn Davis in..

[O'Neill]

So everyone thinks its good that Clark thought there was hope for Davis, and wanted to save him, but when Oliver kills Lex and makes his own plans, (for his own team), suddenly Clark doesnt want to forgive and have any hope for Oliver??

So Clarks humane side is only reserved for criminals and not his own allies? What happened to forgiveness? Redemption? These "heroes" have a lot of growing up to do.

The writers really know how to screw things up.

[BadToad]

So everyone thinks its good that Clark thought there was hope for Davis, and wanted to save him, but when Oliver kills Lex and makes his own plans, (for his own team), suddenly Clark doesnt want to forgive and have any hope for Oliver??


When did Clark say that he had no hope for Oliver?

IMO, what we saw was Clark trying to deal with the more urgent matter at hand, Doomsday/Davis, and not really feeling that dealing with Oliver was helpful to the situation at this particular time. Priorities.

Not to mention, how is Clark supposed to believe in someones redemption, and forgive them, when they're all "Yeah, I killed him! And I'd do it again! Its the way to go!" And thats been where Oliver has been coming from. Maybe during a time where there wasn't looming disaster, Clark might've been more willing to talk and work things out with Oliver. But I strongly suspect that if Clark had hesitated, so he had more time to come to some sort of workable peace with Oliver, he would've been slammed for being too complacent and ignoring the Doomsday situation. Because with some, Clark is always wrong.

[disciples of zod]

one word: BURN.

~H

[smithy698]

Killing Lex wasn't a mistake. Ollie admittedly did it on PURPOSE. He wasn't SORRY about it.

Did he do good things way back in season 6? Yes. But should those actions erase the ugliness of his current actions?

Heck no.

You've misunderstood my post. I said killing Lex was a mistake - that has nothing to do with whether he did it on purpose. And he has shown signs of regret - in Hex.

And let's lay this kryptonite dart thing to rest - Ollie was only trying to incapacitate Clark (as he said at the time). People may well disagree with what Ollie did, but to suggest that he was trying to do Clark permanent harm is nonsense, pure and simple.

[Kneel before Zod]

Something big needs to happen to help Oliver redeem himself.

[wafflles87]

As usually, I'm somewhere in the middle area when talking about Clark vs Oliver.

Now, I don't like that the JL betrayed Clark, but I guess that from their POV I can see why they did it.

I also didn't like Clark turning on Oliver and saying "You're not one of us anymore". The first thing that popped to mind was "My, aren't we Mr. high and mighty?"

I said it before, I'll say it again... both sides made mistakes. The best option would've been for them to sit down and talk about it for a bit. And by talk I mean "I think we should do this because... " "Yes, but then this would happen" "We should try this... ", and not "Clark, Kill Davis!" "I won't!" "Yes you will!!" "No I won't!!!"

[silverkryptonite507]

You've misunderstood my post. I said killing Lex was a mistake - that has nothing to do with whether he did it on purpose. And he has shown signs of regret - in Hex.

And let's lay this kryptonite dart thing to rest - Ollie was only trying to incapacitate Clark (as he said at the time). People may well disagree with what Ollie did, but to suggest that he was trying to do Clark permanent harm is nonsense, pure and simple.

It's easy to feel regret after the fact, and while he did show signs of it in "Hex", he seemed to throw all guilt out the window in "Injustice." I remember thinking, when he told Clark about how he'd killed Lex, "What happened to the remorse?" He didn't sound sorry at all.

Maybe he did feel sorry and didn't want Clark to know about it because he didn't want to feel weak in front of Clark? I know he's been intimidated by Clark's unlimited abilities before.

I wasn't suggesting that Ollie wanted to Clark permanent harm either. But he knew the possible risks and did it anyway. Seriously, what did Ollie think would happen if someone (in this case, Jimmy) hadn't happened to show up and pull the arrow out of Clark? It was planned out, cruel. and heartless... falling in the pattern of most of Oliver's behavior for this entire season.

And believe me, I hate to say that, as I loved Oliver as a character. He crossed the line for me, when he blew Lex to oblivion.

Sure, he could be redeemed for season 9, but it'll take some doing.

[Dyanara]

Didnt Clark say in Injustice that Kryptonite could kill him? So shooting him with it could possibly kill him whether he means to or not. I dont know if everyone around Clark in the comics has Kryptonite hanging around for just in case situations but I still think Oliver shooting him with it was unforgivable. Not only could it possibly kill him but it hurts him, he could have just place some of it near him and that would have been enough.
And Clark telling Oliver you aren't one of us is definitely not on the same level as Oliver shooting him. Id like to see what you guys would say if Clark shot Oliver in the knees with a gun, just to incapacitate him.