Lecturing Clark, why must they do it?

[redRound]

I don't like how everyone on the show is always lecturing Clark. It makes him look stupid and downtrodden. Every week he has to be lectured to, he's a grown man for god sake! I know no one who'd put up with this. Maybe if it were coming from Jon, and in a less accusatory way, it would be better. But having Ollie - that angry murderer - Chloe, and now Tess of all people, :mad::rolleyes:, pushing Clark to do this and that is wrong. It undermines him as a character, and it's rude because they have no right to talk to him like this.

Also, Clark never calls people out for doing this, which is equally annoying. In fact this situation reminds me of when Clark kept on barging into Lex's mansion to accuse him of this and that. It got to the point where it was ridiculous, and I feel the same is happening here.

[Night_Hawk90]

i agree 100% it seems like every character on this show loves to lecture clark on what he must, achieving his destiny, that he has to kill blah blah its ridiculous let clark think for himself

[prodigykane]

Yeah it is getting out of hand. Clark has stood his ground though. Some of the lectures made him who he is though.

[cksidekick]

They are not lectures. They are arguments and IMO Clark comes out on top. But that's because I respect the fact that Supes does NOT kill. Clark lets them have their say, as he should because some of their argument might make sense, then he (in most cases) dismisses their assumptions of who he should be and what he should do.

It doesn't make him look weak. It makes him look like Superman dealing with other Super Heros who don't see things quite the way he does. It's pretty standard "Superman Stuff" actually.

[Night_Hawk90]

They are not lectures. They are arguments and IMO Clark comes out on top. But that's because I respect the fact that Supes does NOT kill. Clark lets them have their say, as he should because some of their argument might make sense, then he (in most cases) dismisses their assumptions of who he should be and what he should do.

It doesn't make him look weak. It makes him look like Superman dealing with other Super Heros who don't see things quite the way he does. It's pretty standard "Superman Stuff" actually.

i disagree majority of the time the other person gets the last remark in and clark just stares blankly at them. I agree with the other poster who said these arguments have shaped him somewhat but enough is enough i want clark to just backhand the green arrow or tess

[xrayvision]

They are not lectures. They are arguments and IMO Clark comes out on top. But that's because I respect the fact that Supes does NOT kill. Clark lets them have their say, as he should because some of their argument might make sense, then he (in most cases) dismisses their assumptions of who he should be and what he should do.

It doesn't make him look weak. It makes him look like Superman dealing with other Super Heros who don't see things quite the way he does. It's pretty standard "Superman Stuff" actually.

What bothers me is that he usually sits there & takes it. If he was more vocal and cut them off to shut them up, it would make him look so much better. Instead, most of the time he just sits & takes it like he did with Tess in Eternal when she was preaching to him.

[cksidekick]

:rotfl:

I just left this thread and found myself in another full of comments about Clark being too black and white and not caring about where other people are comming from.

I guess the question has to be "Do TPTB find a good balance between a Clark who stands his moral ground but has respect for the oppinions of his friends v/s a Clark who is judgemental and has a holyer than thou attitude?"


.

[27CDruid]

At least Clark gave a little back to them in this episode. As i stated before, they know how he rolls and if they hate it then should all stop running to him whining for him to do their work.

[rajman]

They are not lectures. They are arguments and IMO Clark comes out on top. But that's because I respect the fact that Supes does NOT kill. Clark lets them have their say, as he should because some of their argument might make sense, then he (in most cases) dismisses their assumptions of who he should be and what he should do.

It doesn't make him look weak. It makes him look like Superman dealing with other Super Heros who don't see things quite the way he does. It's pretty standard "Superman Stuff" actually.

Yeh, you saved me time

[ClarkyBoy14]

I liked his responses to Ollie in the last act of this episode. I think Clark really came out on top.

[Supsfan]

Because this show loves it's "Drama" and nothing cuases more drama then 2 people with conflicting views

[rajman]

I guess it all contributes to who clark becomes and how he will make decisions when he becomes superman.

[Dyanara]

Im just glad that this last time with Oliver he put him in his place. The lectures are bad enough but I am really getting sick of Oliver and Tess and others tryinig to mold Clark into what they want him to be. Tess needs to go find Jesus and Oliver needs a shrink so they both can leave CLark alone.

[magic]

and Clark never lectures???

Clark lectures more than anyone, and he is far less tolerant of the opinion of others

[kris10]

who like lectures? i sure as hell dont. but the problem is the content too dont ya think. hey go kill this guy...by the way i think they are more manipulating the situation rather than lecturing i.e. injustice league/lex luthor murder..and chloe isnt lecturing him she doesnt want him to kill davis and she doesnt want clark hurt in the process. i think thats a caring friend...maybe not the best of ideas to go with him but she isnt telling him to go murder someone.

i love when they are lecturing i actually call it the "monologue" i almost wishing someone would kill the people that are demanding that he kill others. but ehhhh not quite.

[Exedore]

I am waiting for some random person he saves in Doomsday to suddenly lecture Clark in the middle of the street with Doomsday right behind them. Everything comes to a stop while Clark gets lectured about his destiny...again. Meanwhile Doomsday grabs some popcorn and watches Clark sit there and take it...again.

[magic]

chloe isnt lecturing him she doesnt want him to kill davis and she doesnt want clark hurt in the process. i think thats a caring friend...maybe not the best of ideas to go with him but she isnt telling him to go murder someone.

actually she did tell him to murder Lex. both last season and this one

[Dominicus]

and Clark never lectures???

Clark lectures more than anyone, and he is far less tolerant of the opinion of othersClark lectures about what is right, like his father Jonathan did for him, who also lectured him. He's simply repeating the process. Everyone else is simply intimidated by his resolve, conviction and self-righteousness, because they don't have or see that same type of firm unwavering justice. He looks for the best in everyone even those deemed the devil incarnate, which is why he stands out. He's not so quick to condemn to death or rehabilitation, offering a chance, or opportunity to change. He doesn't believe himself a god, therefore has no right to exact a death sentence. He has no rigt to take a life, this is his prinicbles. That's his character. He only criticizes a few and at appropriate occasions. However, everyone lectures Clark, even the villains to the point of redundancy. His sense of justice cannot be penetrated, therefore lectures, or whines whichever is best.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


Im just glad that this last time with Oliver he put him in his place. The lectures are bad enough but I am really getting sick of Oliver and Tess and others tryinig to mold Clark into what they want him to be. Tess needs to go find Jesus and Oliver needs a shrink so they both can leave CLark alone.Amen and Haleluhah to that!:lol:

[magic]

Clark lectures about what is right
you mean what he believes is right
and he doesn't only lecture, he also bullies whoever disagrees with him
that's pretty fascist if you ask me

[kris10]

I am waiting for some random person he saves in Doomsday to suddenly lecture Clark in the middle of the street with Doomsday right behind them. Everything comes to a stop while Clark gets lectured about his destiny...again. Meanwhile Doomsday grabs some popcorn and watches Clark sit there and take it...again.

LMAO! exedore did you get your name from robotech?

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


actually she did tell him to murder Lex. both last season and this one

i am sorry when?
i remember she suggested it in zod bc it was like the end of the world but i have seem to forgotten.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


clark lectures about what is right, like his father jonathan did for him, who also lectured him. He's simply repeating the process. Everyone else is simply intimidated by his resolve, conviction and self-righteousness, because they don't have or see that same type of firm unwavering justice. He looks for the best in everyone even those deemed the devil incarnate, which is why he stands out. He's not so quick to condemn to death or rehabilitation, offering a chance, or opportunity to change. He doesn't believe himself a god, therefore has no right to exact a death sentence. He has no rigt to take a life, this is his prinicbles. That's his character. He only criticizes a few and at appropriate occasions. However, everyone lectures clark, even the villains to the point of redundancy. His sense of justice cannot be penetrated, therefore lectures, or whines whichever is best.

----- added 3 minutes later -----

amen and haleluhah to that!:lol:

word!

[Dominicus]

you mean what he believes is right
and he doesn't only lecture, he also bullies whoever disagrees with him
that's pretty fascist if you ask meNo what is right. He's not playing God deciding who dies. Shooting first without going through the proper channels is not what he is all about. If anything people try to bully him with words, threats, or kryptonite to get him to do what they want. Everyone on that shows has their own set of ideals, agendas, the only reason he stands out is because he stands by them strongly, and they are the weak. People, make decisions, sometimes they are the wrong ones, that's the point in learning from your mistakes, even a hero can make a mistake or two. But in order for it to become a mistake a decision has to be made, if it's wrong only time will tell, and they will learn from it. He is not all-knowing.

For example, so Oliver kills Lex, and Tess is born, pointless cycle, there will always be a villain. However knowing less of the newer enemy and how far they would go, and what agenda lies in the wait next. Oliver carried a past grudge against the Luthors, though now that Tess is his successor, can you see Ollie taking her life like he did with Lex? The point is selfishness, personal vendettas, fears, Clark looks above all that despite maybe harboring those feelings they do not interfere with his home-schooled morals.

[magic]

i am sorry when?
i remember she suggested it in zod bc it was like the end of the world but i have seem to forgotten.
season 7 - Quest
season 8 - Requiem

[Dominicus]

Because this show loves it's "Drama" and nothing cuases more drama then 2 people with conflicting viewsIsn't that the truth on the CW in-general, moral dilemmas strife=conflict, and differing of opinions. drama, drama, drama such is life on the CW.

[Exedore]

LMAO! exedore did you get your name from robotech?

Yup. He's my favourite Zentraedi. Do I detect a fellow Robotech/Macross fan? :)

[actaeon]

Clark himself is pretty good at telling people what they ought to do. I'm getting sick of Clark and Oliver going back and forth over the same ground-- "never kill!" "kick the monster's ass!" They both have valid points of view, but arguing back and forth this long is just pointless.

I kind of side with Ollie, anyway. Clark's "never kill, ever" line is arbitrary and without foundation. It's what he, Clark believes to be right-- okay, fine; but Clark needs to accept that other people have other beliefs, and they legitimately think that they are right, too. If Clark thinks it's wrong to "play God", then how can he think that he, Clark, always knows best, that he is always right, that his judgment is always best? Isn't that playing God?

Clark lectures Ollie (after lying to him to get him to steal the black K, which I think was pretty funny from the man who sees himself as the epitome of virtue) that they must not kill the beast because they have to do "what's right" and if they do kill, then they're no better than the people they're fighting. Clark thinks he's scoring points, but all he's doing is re-stating his initial position. He, Clark, knows what's right, dammit, and everyone else is wrong!

Where's the solid evidence that killing is always wrong? Where is the logical argument? If I see a maniac with a bloody axe charging at me, and I have a gun in my hand, I'm going to shoot the lunatic-- and I'd like to see anyone convince me that what I did was morally wrong. Because of examples like this, I can safely say that no, killing is not always wrong. So Clark's argument is unfounded.

Clark's argument is also inconsistent. He's not against violence; in fact he uses violence all the time as a solution. Violence inevitably merges into killing, it's just a question of degree. Every time he tosses a bad guy across a room he risks breaking the guy's neck. In fact Clark has killed people in the course of fights. So have Lana and Chloe.

[sithius]

Clark was certainly not being lectured to in this episode. As someone else said, he stood his ground and came out on top with Oliver. When Clark said 'My responsibility is to do what's right. Like it or not we stand for something. We set an example for others to follow and if we don't then we're no better than the people we fight'.

Oliver's response? 'I'm not your enemy Clark'. He knows Clark is right, and his expression totally showed that. Clark then asks who Oliver is and he can't reply, and Clark leaves the office.

I don't see how that is a lecture. To me it was Clark finally standing up for himself and speaking in a way that I imagine Superman would.

[magic]

Oliver's response? 'I'm not your enemy Clark'. He knows Clark is right, and his expression totally showed that. Clark then asks who Oliver is and he can't reply, and Clark leaves the office.
I don't think he gave in, it seemed to me like he was hurt by Clark's my way or the highway attitude treating people that don't agree with him as enemies.
thats Clark Kent, he won't kill you but he will beat you down until you agree with him.
he may as well just get the antilife equation and be done with it

[sithius]

I don't think he gave in, it seemed to me like he was hurt by Clark's my way or the highway attitude treating people that don't agree with him as enemies.
thats Clark Kent, he won't kill you but he will beat you down until you agree with him.
he may as well just get the antilife equation and be done with it

You're joking aren't you? He didn't call Oliver an enemy, and since when did Oliver never give Clark the 'my way or the highway' attitude? Last time I checked he is always the one ranting about how Clark must kill.

Since you're so against a hero that won't kill, then you should stop watching this show because Clark will never be the man you want him to be.

[smithy698]

Arguments = drama, as someone has already said. How dull would it be if there were never any disagreements amongst the characters? The show would become far more one dimensional. One of the themes of this season has been how Ollie and Clark have different approaches to being a hero, and that is highlighted when they go head to head - the arguments help the audience to think where they stand on how to deal with threats as dangerous as Lex and Doomy.

And before the "Ollie is a villain" crew start, I do think Ollie is a hero, albeit a flawed one who is now wrestling with the consequences of his actions. Yes, Ollie bumped off Lex, but a lot of people here prefer to focus solely on that rather than look at his character in the round, and the countless lives he's saved. After all, there would not have been an argument in Injustice had not Ollie saved Clark, yet again.

[Dyanara]

So killing is ok if you just so happen to save other people before and after? I think not, if anything this new attitude of Oliver's shows that he will eventually lose his place as the leader of the Justice League. Clark was not pulling a my way or the high way Bush tactic, Im sure he is just as tired as we are of people trying to push and manipulate him into doing what he doesn't want to do. It seems to me that sometimes Oliver just sees Clark as the muscle, and he gets mad at him for not using that strength in ways he himself would. But I must say I am happy that they are showing why Clark and not Oliver is the right one to be loaded with so much arsenal. Oliver is already bordering on the "my justice is true justice" edge and if he would have had Clark's abilities I'm sure he would become a tyrant. A lot of what Oliver has been doin lately has reminded me of the Justice Lords from the animated Justice League.

[malft]

Exedore, I think your name originally was a characters on Mork and Mindy. Exedore was the fellow that wore a robe and constantly preached the end was near. I think he was homeless too.