Oliver Queen = SV Batman = "Green Arrow"

[davidbrenton]

Hook Oliver Queen up with Dr. Hamilton and there is some serious fun to be had with the similarities.

What's the consensus?

[doomsday1215]

since they cant get batman on SV, they just settled for GA..

[ginnyfan]

I'm starting to believe that. I don't know why it took so long for me to be convinced.

[superspider02]

well folks have been saying that since season 6 when he was added its ok since we know bats is offlimits for the show.

[xrayvision]

No because Batman doesn't kill. Batman wouldn't kill Lex. If he could kill Doomsday, maybe he would, but not Lex. The Joker makes Lex's actions look like a saint's and Batman still didn't kill him.

There haven't been any true Batman figures in Smallville. The Angel of Vengeance & Ollie both come close, but neither cut being a Batman clone.

[davidbrenton]

I'm starting to believe that. I don't know why it took so long for me to be convinced.

It just hit me today too.

[xrayvision]

I just want him gone. I'm tired of his verbal beatdowns on Clark. This is Clark's show and if I were him, I would get ready to send Ollie to the Phantom Zone.

[davidbrenton]

well folks have been saying that since season 6 when he was added its ok since we know bats is offlimits for the show.

I didn't know that. Are the backstories of GA and Batman similar or did they alter GA's backstory for Smallville?

I don't know anything about GA in comics.

[ginnyfan]

No because Batman doesn't kill. Batman wouldn't kill Lex. If he could kill Doomsday, maybe he would, but not Lex. The Joker makes Lex's actions look like a saint's and Batman still didn't kill him.

There haven't been any true Batman figures in Smallville. The Angel of Vengeance & Ollie both come close, but neither cut being a Batman clone.

Thanks for this. I'm back to not believing. LOL!

[Dyanara]

Just because Oliver is a rich orphan with pretty gadgets doesnt make him Batman. Yes Batman is dark but he isnt a killer. And as for Oliver's verbal tirade's Clark gave him a good verbal beat down tonight which made me proud.

[Smallville Vamp]

I loved Oliver tonight. His lie, cheat and steal method allowed him to come out on top PLUS he saved Clarks butt AGAIN! So it's not what most look for in a hero but I'll take it over letting the bad guys win ANY day of the week.

[super_j_man]

Smallville's Ollie/GA is NOTHING I repeat NOTHING like Batman. I can say that because I am a Batman fan (animated series and movies). Ollie on SV is getting on my nerves. Telling Clark to "kill, kill, kill" is not what Batman would do. I mean have y'all even seen Batman Begins/Dark Knight?? "I am no executioner" - Bruce Wayne/Batman when Rhas Al Ghul told him to kill a criminal. That's Batman's whole stance, that he will do all he can to stop bad guys, but he will NOT resort to killing.

[xrayvision]

Thanks for this. I'm back to not believing. LOL!

You're welcome ginnyfan.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Smallville's Ollie/GA is NOTHING I repeat NOTHING like Batman. I can say that because I am a Batman fan (animated series and movies). Ollie on SV is getting on my nerves. Telling Clark to "kill, kill, kill" is not what Batman would do. I mean have y'all even seen Batman Begins/Dark Knight?? "I am no executioner" - Bruce Wayne/Batman when Rhas Al Ghul told him to kill a criminal. That's Batman's whole stance, that he will do all he can to stop bad guys, but he will NOT resort to killing.

I'm glad we're together on this Jess. The Joker in the comics has raped & crippled Batgirl and blew up Jason Todd (the 2nd Robin) & Jason's mother in addition to killing 1000's of people. If Batman didn't kill him, he sure as hell wouldn't kill Lex. Batman even clashed with Jason to prevent him from killing the Joker after he returned from death thanks to Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit & became the Red Hood.

[dru-zod2501]

GA was always meant to be the "poor man's Batman" on the show since he was introduced, I thought that was always quite clear, he's been labeled as such in the books at times too. Until this sordid affair over murder started I was content to accept him as a tolerable substitute but they screwed that up royally

[cksidekick]

Here is the thing:

Oliver on Smallville is written like Oliver Queen. He's the rich womanizing playboy with a smart mouth. He isn't written like Bruce Wayne. So, while one might find similarities between the two relationships, we can only get a taste of a Supes/Bats relationship.

For one thing, Oliver Queen is not the "Sherlock Holmes" that Bruce is. Chloe covers most of the investigating on Smallville. Bats usually covers that sort of thing for the team in other incarnations. Bruce is well prepared and one step ahead of everyone else most of the time. That's what makes him Batman. Oliver (in spite of occasional well planned group missions) is more of a "fly by the seat of your pants" kind of guy. Bruce and Clark are polar opposites in terms of personality (like Clark and Lois, but in a "guy" sort of way). Oliver smiles too much to be like Bruce. Oliver cracks smart a** jokes all the time which is something Bruce/Bats never does (or at least does rarely enough for it to be a big deal when he makes a wise crack).

I get the idea behind having Oliver be a "poor man's Batman" but many of the finer more nuanced details of a Supes/Bats relationship can never really be explored. There is a lot of irony and polar opposites playing off of each other as two heros fight for the same goal, that Oliver/Clark misses out on. Having said that, in many ways Clark and Oliver are opposites and TPTB have done a pretty good job of exploiting them to get to the core of the characters.


edit: OH! #1 reason i can't fully buy into it.......Clark can actually count on Bruce to do the right thing! He's a person Clark would actialy trust with that kryptonite ring.

[Vergon6]

You're welcome ginnyfan.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



I'm glad we're together on this Jess. The Joker in the comics has raped & crippled Batgirl and blew up Jason Todd (the 2nd Robin) & Jason's mother in addition to killing 1000's of people. If Batman didn't kill him, he sure as hell wouldn't kill Lex. Batman even clashed with Jason to prevent him from killing the Joker after he returned from death thanks to Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit & became the Red Hood.
Yeah, it's easy for people to forget that Batman has a no killing policy. That was painfully illustrated in The Dark Knight movie. He was so close, Joker wanted him to do it, but he refused.

[davidbrenton]

You're welcome ginnyfan.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



I'm glad we're together on this Jess. The Joker in the comics has raped & crippled Batgirl and blew up Jason Todd (the 2nd Robin) & Jason's mother in addition to killing 1000's of people. If Batman didn't kill him, he sure as hell wouldn't kill Lex. Batman even clashed with Jason to prevent him from killing the Joker after he returned from death thanks to Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit & became the Red Hood.

OMG. The joker in the comics actually raped & crippled Batgirl. That's terrible.

[xrayvision]

OMG. The joker in the comics actually raped & crippled Batgirl. That's terrible.

Yes. He did it to prove a point to Commissioner Gordon that anyone can go insane if they have a bad enough day. Thankfully Batman stopped it from getting any further. The Joker is one of the baddest mofos there is.

[Vergon6]

Yes. He did it to prove a point to Commissioner Gordon that anyone can go insane if they have a bad enough day. Thankfully Batman stopped it from getting any further. The Joker is one of the baddest mofos there is.
Sure sounds like it. No wonder people were saying in The Dark Knight thread how Heath Ledger's Joker was closer to his comic counterpart than Jack Nicholson's Joker was. That is some messed up stuff. But what do you expect a psychopath like the Joker.

[xrayvision]

The closest Joker to the actual one from the comics in my opinion was played by Paul Molnar in fan films by Bat in the Sun:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4095303199635469669&ei=ldYDSum4No3CrQL4n6mODA&q=patient+j

Joker's Christmas Special:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAp6gleJd4&feature=channel_page

Batman Legends (I would LOVE Aaron Schoenke to be hired by Hollywood to make a film like this based on Knightfall):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5RHUO6yLg&feature=channel_page


Between the insane laughs & his insanely evil actions, I think he just nailed it. Ledger did a pretty damn good job, but his Joker was too thuggish (like a mobster) rather than just completely insane. I also love how Molnar's Joker played off the dependency on Batman (how the Joker needs Batman) that has been apparent in the comics.

[amalie]

I don't really associate Oliver with Batman and I don't like the dark path they're taking him on at all. He killed Lex, he wants to kill Davis and he tried to smash a guys head in with a pool ball...those aren't very endearing character traits to me.

[clois-destiny-forever]

I feel like they've been going on this association path for a while...maybe that's just me.

[amalie]

I was rewatching an old season 6 episode the other day, I think it was Arrow, and the contrast of Oliver then compared to now is staggering. In that episode he gives Lois a lecture about shooting first and thinking later and she calls him a 'bleeding heart pacifist" compared to her being a 'knee jerk fascist'. It made me laugh when I thought of where we've ended up now.

[xrayvision]

I was rewatching an old season 6 episode the other day, I think it was Arrow, and the contrast of Oliver then compared to now is staggering. In that episode he gives Lois a lecture about shooting first and thinking later and she calls him a 'bleeding heart pacifist" compared to her being a 'knee jerk fascist'. It made me laugh when I thought of where we've ended up now.

Part of me still thinks that the Oliver we're seeing now is Lex after he had John Zatara (Zatanna's father) do to him what Zatanna did to Chloe by making her look like Lois. Meaning that there are 2 Olivers (Lex and the real one). If this is true, then Lex is learning all of Clark's secrets now.

Just imagine how much of an evil mastermind Lex must be to have blown up a clone of his in a truck as Oliver making everyone think he's dead. I truly hope this turns out to be true. It would mean that there was a switch between the real Oliver & Lex sometime in Requiem.

[Vergon6]

The closest Joker to the actual one from the comics in my opinion was played by Paul Molnar in fan films by Bat in the Sun:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4095303199635469669&ei=ldYDSum4No3CrQL4n6mODA&q=patient+j

Joker's Christmas Special:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAp6gleJd4&feature=channel_page

Batman Legends (I would LOVE Aaron Schoenke to be hired by Hollywood to make a film like this based on Knightfall):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5RHUO6yLg&feature=channel_page


Between the insane laughs & his insanely evil actions, I think he just nailed it. Ledger did a pretty damn good job, but his Joker was too thuggish (like a mobster) rather than just completely insane. I also love how Molnar's Joker played off the dependency on Batman (how the Joker needs Batman) that has been apparent in the comics.
I meant comparatively speaking of course, between the two most recent non-fan film Jokers.

[Exedore]

No because Batman doesn't kill. Batman wouldn't kill Lex. If he could kill Doomsday, maybe he would, but not Lex. The Joker makes Lex's actions look like a saint's and Batman still didn't kill him.

There haven't been any true Batman figures in Smallville. The Angel of Vengeance & Ollie both come close, but neither cut being a Batman clone.

Agreed 100%. Clark really needs to kick Oliver's sorry a$$ off the show permanently. Go back to being a Clark-centric show.

[xrayvision]

I meant comparatively speaking of course, between the two most recent non-fan film Jokers.

Yeah, I know. My favorite is Molnar's though. The guy was spot on.

[Estro-gen X]

while bits like the kryptonite ring are similar and of course GA as a concept I think Smallville has done things that just doesn't relate to Batman. The drug storyline is one of green arrow's finest moments in the comics and Batman tries never to kill (but thats not to say he hasn't). Both are places Smallville has gone with the character that doesn't fit with Bruce Wayne. We can't deny that in the comics Green Arrow is similar, dead parents, rich boy with toys, boy sidekick etc...but in character they are very different. Oliver actually is the playboy Bruce pretends to be and uses his public persona to change the world politically.(which Smallvile has also used)

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


I was rewatching an old season 6 episode the other day, I think it was Arrow, and the contrast of Oliver then compared to now is staggering. In that episode he gives Lois a lecture about shooting first and thinking later and she calls him a 'bleeding heart pacifist" compared to her being a 'knee jerk fascist'. It made me laugh when I thought of where we've ended up now.

Thats because AlMiles were able to show heroes as heroes and Clark as one of them equally. We've seen from Oliver's treatment this season and the Zatanna story that PS3 can't do that. They have to put characters down to make clark look good (when in fact he comes off as a niave, indecisive twit). They go into a story thinking how they can make Clark look better rather than showing him as humble and open to teamwork by realising people are better than he is sometimes just as he is stronger than them.

[doomsday1215]

I'm glad we're together on this Jess. The Joker in the comics has raped & crippled Batgirl and blew up Jason Todd (the 2nd Robin) & Jason's mother in addition to killing 1000's of people. If Batman didn't kill him, he sure as hell wouldn't kill Lex. Batman even clashed with Jason to prevent him from killing the Joker after he returned from death thanks to Ra's Al Ghul's Lazarus Pit & became the Red Hood.

i didnt know that he raped her, i knew he crippled her (some say he also took naked pictures of her then showed it to Barb's father) but dayum..


anyways, SV's GA also has another thing in common with Batman.... They both have Lex's Kryptonite ring (although Superman was the one who gave the ring to Batman just in case Superman turns his back on earth)

[amalie]

i didnt know that he raped her, i knew he crippled her (some say he also took naked pictures of her then showed it to Barb's father) but dayum..


anyways, SV's GA also has another thing in common with Batman.... They both have Lex's Kryptonite ring (although Superman was the one who gave the ring to Batman just in case Superman turns his back on earth)


I was under the impression that there was no rape too, just the shooting and photographs which in themselves are sick enough. I could be wrong though.

[ReevesSuperman]

I actually believe Bruce kills Joker at the end of that storyline too considering how Bruce has him around the throat and the laughing stops, but it continues to rain for a few more panels. Bruce also used a gun to kill Darkside in Final Crisis plus you are dealing with a villain like Lex that has killed a ton of people plus his father association with the death of Green Arrow's parents. In Batman begins, he was ready to kill Joe Chill and he did kill Joker who murdered his parents in Burton's Batman as well. So, its not like Bruce hasn't killed or killed in the name of his parents or to save mankind.

Bruce gets put on a pedestal that if you look closely enough he doesn't live up to. After watching past season of Smallville killing Lex should have been done years ago. Yet, I don't think that was Lex in the van anyway, I think it was a clone and I believe Lana has been a clone since season 6. If DC won't let them use Doomsday to kill Clark I can't see them give the ok to kill Lex before he even becomes Superman. They will bring Lex back in the finale and hint it at all season.

Green Arrow is a great counter to Clark which Bruce has been since the beginning of their team-up. Ollie should be the counter for Clark, but the Kryptonite ring and the dark side is Smallville saying 'Hey, we can't use Batman, then we will make Arrow the dark counter point ot Clark and even give him stuff that made Clark/Bruce's relationship." I just wish DC would allow them to do a Wonder Woman storyline since she is the balance to the Clark/Bruce relationship. And yes, I do believe Bruce would suggest killing Doomsday once Clark failed with the phantom zone.

[jpfort1957]

I thought when Clark called the Doctor needing a ride..........the Doc was filling the role of watchtower. But after reading this thread........maybe the Doc is assuming the role of Alfred? Well he did start the Batmobile for Clark!!!!!!

[DCgirlSince2006]

In the comics the best stuff always comes from the Supes vs. Bats dynamic. DC's more recent line of Batman/Superman which began with 24 issues by Jeph Loeb were the best. They play Clark's hope in people against Batman's misturst and desire to always be prepared. They often clash in their methods but are united by their desire to do what's right and to serve others.

GA in the comics is often at odds with other characters, especially Bats and Hawkman. GA is super left wing while Bats falls more to the right, and Hawkman to the extreme right. GA is often at his best in the comics when he disagrees with the "Big Boys" and hold the line on what he believes is right.

Pre-Infinite crisis Batman became very dark, not killing anyone, but mistrusting everyone and adopting a "what ever it takes attitude." We can see in Smallville Oliver is taking on this role. I think is great because it forces Clark to stand for what he thinks is right. His speech to Ollie totally epitomized who Supes comes to be--- Never giving up on people, always finding a way to do the right thing and, this was a big step this episode, knowing he is someone others look up to.

The Krpto ring was great. In the comics Batman steals it from Lex and uses it against Supes when he is controlled by Posion Ivy (Batman Hush by Jeph Loab--best Batman comic every :). At one point Supes gives Bats the ring incase he ever steps out of line or is being controlled etc.

To conclude my long winded speel. Bringing out the Superman vs. Batman vibe in Clack and Oliver's relationship will provide great opportunity for the character development of both.

[superman07]

I was thinking the same thing while watching this episode. Oliver seemed a bit darker...almost batman dark..haha well no where near that but i did get the vibe that they were putting him part in the batman role. The main thing that keeps us all from saying "OMG HE'S BATMAN IN GREEN" is the fact that he sees no problem with killing for the good of man-kind.

Having a green kryptonite in his back pocket is also reminiscent of Batman. Because i'm pretty sure they both have it for the same reasons, even if Ollie won't admit it.

[Effect]

Yes. He did it to prove a point to Commissioner Gordon that anyone can go insane if they have a bad enough day. Thankfully Batman stopped it from getting any further. The Joker is one of the baddest mofos there is.

Joker in the comics is also part of the reason why I can't stand reading Batman comics. They've painted the character and as a result Batman into such a corner that it's hard to even accept some of the stories they do. They've writing Joker in such a way that he should the be number 1 most hunted criminal in the US within the DC Universe. He should have everyone (Superman and everyone else) out to get him for the amount of deaths he has racked up. He should be killed on sight by all cops. Yet he is only captured and allowed to get away. They've made him so vile that it doesn't make sense how he's handled. It's been a problem for a long time it seems.

Then again it might just be me as those sort of things bother me. If you aren't willing to follow the logical outcome of certain things don't writer characters in a specific manner. There is no reason Joker as a character should be alive after all he's done and no reason why Batman shouldn't make an exception for him as well. His no killing policy is admirable but with Joker it makes Batman as a character at best look insanely horrible and an accessory to his crimes. At worse things I can't say on this forum without being banned.

[ironman29758]

Ollie is taken from various green arrow stories(Green Arrow killed in some version of the Mthos and Green Arrow from smallville take influence from various Ollies throught the mythos from comics to tv to cartoon) and Batman(Batman killed in his early stories and tried to kill Darkseid in Final Crisis before he died, Batman can do some things Ollie did like making a pro active tesam, holding kryptonite as last resort in Clark goes out of control or any rouge Kryptonians)

[xrayvision]

Joker in the comics is also part of the reason why I can't stand reading Batman comics. They've painted the character and as a result Batman into such a corner that it's hard to even accept some of the stories they do. They've writing Joker in such a way that he should the be number 1 most hunted criminal in the US within the DC Universe. He should have everyone (Superman and everyone else) out to get him for the amount of deaths he has racked up. He should be killed on sight by all cops. Yet he is only captured and allowed to get away. They've made him so vile that it doesn't make sense how he's handled. It's been a problem for a long time it seems.

Then again it might just be me as those sort of things bother me. If you aren't willing to follow the logical outcome of certain things don't writer characters in a specific manner. There is no reason Joker as a character should be alive after all he's done and no reason why Batman shouldn't make an exception for him as well. His no killing policy is admirable but with Joker it makes Batman as a character at best look insanely horrible and an accessory to his crimes. At worse things I can't say on this forum without being banned.

Well Batman keeps delivering him to the authorities who could easily kill him if they want. I think Batman's view is that he doesn't think it's his choice to kill the Joker. I agree completely that if he would, 1000's of lives would be saved in the future. But he doesn't want to be judge, jury & executioner. I think if he would, there would be some who would judge him as a criminal, just like how Kurtwood Smith's character in the current season of 24 wanted to try Jack Bauer for torture & other crimes even though any normal person would know that his actions were in the best interests of the country, even though innocents were tragically killed in the process at times.

[SupermanRox]

maybe the Doc is assuming the role of Alfred? Well he did start the Batmobile for Clark!!!!!! This is the same comparison that my husband made last night. Eerie!


In the comics the best stuff always comes from the Supes vs. Bats dynamic. DC's more recent line of Batman/Superman which began with 24 issues by Jeph Loeb were the best. They play Clark's hope in people against Batman's misturst and desire to always be prepared. They often clash in their methods but are united by their desire to do what's right and to serve others.

GA in the comics is often at odds with other characters, especially Bats and Hawkman. GA is super left wing while Bats falls more to the right, and Hawkman to the extreme right. GA is often at his best in the comics when he disagrees with the "Big Boys" and hold the line on what he believes is right.

Pre-Infinite crisis Batman became very dark, not killing anyone, but mistrusting everyone and adopting a "what ever it takes attitude." We can see in Smallville Oliver is taking on this role. I think is great because it forces Clark to stand for what he thinks is right. His speech to Ollie totally epitomized who Supes comes to be--- Never giving up on people, always finding a way to do the right thing and, this was a big step this episode, knowing he is someone others look up to.

The Krpto ring was great. In the comics Batman steals it from Lex and uses it against Supes when he is controlled by Posion Ivy (Batman Hush by Jeph Loab--best Batman comic every :). At one point Supes gives Bats the ring incase he ever steps out of line or is being controlled etc.

To conclude my long winded speel. Bringing out the Superman vs. Batman vibe in Clack and Oliver's relationship will provide great opportunity for the character development of both.

Well said! I couldn't agree with you more.

[jim mayniam]

i had to vote that it is a wash because ollie and bruce are both richer than the pope. the difference, which we don't see, is that for ollie its a lifestyle and for bruce its a disguise.

ollie doesn't belong in arkham. bruce does.

GA plays it well, though; to be sure.

[Dr. Blade]

I think the comparisons might be easier to draw than not. Ollie's like Batman in some ways, and in other ways, he's not. That whole killing thing, it's true, Batman wouldn't do that. And there are other small things that Ollie has as a character that Bruce doesn't. Because there wasn't any way SV could just flat-out write Batman and pass him off as a different character. People would see through that.

But on the same note, the Ollie on SV is drastically different than the Ollie in the comics. It's almost easier to connect SV Ollie to comics Batman than comics GA for me. I definitely think the writers were keeping Batman in mind when they wrote his character, and tried to draw it up as close as they could, while still giving the character freedom. Ollie's and Clark's conversations are getting more and more Batman and Superman like, and there are glaring facts that point to the hints in that relationship too. For example, Ollie's code name for Clark? Boy scout? That's not a GA thing. That's directly out of Batman and Superman. One of Batman's fondest nicknames for Clark, actually.

[Supeman]

I think they might be trying to play it off that way, but as a long time Batman fan i dont think its working to well. The not-killing thing is true, but the biggest thing for me that shows he is not batman is his relationship with clark.

[bychance]

Why would anyone want Batman on the show anyway? Clark isn't even Superman yet! At this point in time (or SV's timeline, whatever) Bruce probably hasn't even started training with the League of Shadows yet. Probably still brooding around alone in his mansion with Alfred.

[chlo-el]

I'd say that Batman's story is very similar to SV GA's story but the main difference is Batman has one rule and that is not to kill.

[MozartRequiem]

"No because Batman doesn't kill. Batman wouldn't kill Lex. If he could kill Doomsday, maybe he would, but not Lex. The Joker makes Lex's actions look like a saint's and Batman still didn't kill him."

Actually, that's not entirely true about Bats never condoning the murder of Lex...

In one of my favorite graphic novels, "Public Enemy", Superman has Lex in his clutches after Lex has done yet another horrific deed to the world. Superman is so tempted to kill him. Batman steps out of the shadows, saying, "I will not stop you. There are ways that we can make it look like an accident, or better yet, as though he's disappeared without a trace."

Batman's narration explains, "It was not long ago that I found myself in a similar situation with the Joker. Jim Gordon talked me out of killing him. But I am NOT Jim Gordon. And whatever evil the Joker has caused Gotham City, it is dwarfed by what Lex Luthor does to the entire planet. Worse, what he does to Clark."

I thought that was one of the most fascinating scenes between Batman and Superman that I've read, and it's always stuck with me. Batman's "one rule" is ALMOST never broken, but yet it comes pretty damn close with Lex Luthor of all people. As you said, sometimes the Joker's actions are so evil they make Lex look like a saint, but Batman brought up a great point in basically saying Lex's evil is far more wide-scale and global, hurting the entire planet, not just one city.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----

"no reason why Batman shouldn't make an exception for him as well. His no killing policy is admirable but with Joker it makes Batman as a character at best look insanely horrible and an accessory to his crimes."

Agreed! That's why I always say that the Joker should be the ONE exception to Batman's rule, just as Lex should be Superman's one exception.

[Theshadow129x]

i've said it when they first brought him into the show. he was SV's version of the bat.

[ClLaLeChFAN01]

Im a batman fan just watching the movies and the cartoons...and for a long time I wanted him on the show. But now I am glad that he is not on the show, just that I am hoping that Clark and Lois doesnt get together until AFTER Superman is established! I dont think that batman can or will be able to bring in anything new to the show other than he is batman! YEAH!

I like the fact that Smallville is bring in lesser known Superheros....it lets people know that there are A LOT more Superhero out there than the big 10 (honestly I just threw out a number)!

[xrayvision]

Also, Batman isn't a pathetic wussy to disrobe his cape & cowl & jump into bed nude when he is trying to escape a building. He would batarang Tess' ass, throw the security guards through windows and make one hell of an exit.

[ironman29758]

Also, Batman isn't a pathetic wussy to disrobe his cape & cowl & jump into bed nude when he is trying to escape a building. He would batarang Tess' ass, throw the security guards through windows and make one hell of an exit.

there are different interpretations of the batman and Green Arrow mythos. So that's where GA choosing to kill come from stories like the early Batman stories,Longbow Hunters/Mike Grell Ongoing, and posiblly other stories like Superman/Batman: Public Enemy while keeping it realistic(how would Ollie or in other case you would act if you found out Lionel killed your parents, your best friend never told you and the killer is dead.) and that includes Bruce can do alot of things(including what Ollie did in Injustice).

[Lex's power]

well, i wouldn't say he is smallville's "batman". not yet at least. lex has done enough bad things for oliver to not be considered a "criminal" for killing him, and yes- batman would never have done that, but as i said, oliver is almost as young as clark is and he is still just learning how to be a true hero. so far on smallville clark isn't a saint either, he's done quite a few things that were ment for nothing but revenge. okay so clark never murdered, but we all know that lex is still alive and will be back, wheather it will be seen on the show or not, and weather michael rosenbaum will sign up or not. i am sure that if they bring lex back before the show ends both oliver and clark will have matured a lot more (clark might actualy be flying and wear the costume) and not want to kill lex.

green arrow is not smallville's version of batman, but someday he will be!

[xrayvision]

there are different interpretations of the batman and Green Arrow mythos. So that's where GA choosing to kill come from stories like the early Batman stories,Longbow Hunters/Mike Grell Ongoing, and posiblly other stories like Superman/Batman: Public Enemy while keeping it realistic(how would Ollie or in other case you would act if you found out Lionel killed your parents, your best friend never told you and the killer is dead.) and that includes Bruce can do alot of things(including what Ollie did in Injustice).

I'm not just talking about killing. Ollie is a disgrace in my book. He will never be anything like Batman. Batman has a lot of honor and doesn't let his "Bat Jr." interfere with his heroic operations. Batman knows how to draw a line between hero business (his Batman life) and pleasure (life as Bruce Wayne). Ollie is a whining moron who doesn't know what he's talking about. He knows Doomsday has come back from death before after finding out he clawed out of his grave but still whines to Clark that he needs to die. He's a clown that I will never take seriously, especially after he jumped into bed in the middle of a mission.

Even though I never liked him, I think in Rage he was a lot more like Batman than he is now. There are very few times I liked him (Bloodline & maybe Hex). Most of the times he's whining about something and is shown to make Clark look incompetent. The problem is, if distractions & gimmicks like Ollie, all the other JLA characters, Chloe & Lana & other characters written like them had not been on this show, Clark would be written to be very smart & capable throughout the series rather than just in the 1st three seasons.

[ironman29758]

Why would anyone want Batman on the show anyway? Clark isn't even Superman yet! At this point in time (or SV's timeline, whatever) Bruce probably hasn't even started training with the League of Shadows yet. Probably still brooding around alone in his mansion with Alfred.

In the silver age/bronze age as well as the elseworlds story Superman/Batman generations Batman met Clark Kent/Superboy before Bruce became Batman and Clark became Superman

[bychance]

In the silver age/bronze age as well as the elseworlds story Superman/Batman generations Batman met Clark Kent/Superboy before Bruce became Batman and Clark became Superman

Interesting.
I guess I'm not particularly interested in that interpretation.

[UpandAtom]

I didn't know that. Are the backstories of GA and Batman similar or did they alter GA's backstory for Smallville?

I don't know anything about GA in comics.


Green Arrow was always derivative of Batman ever since his inception, which leads most believe to believe that SV's Green Arrow to be based on Batman. Though there are similarities between the two characters, there are also some differences. GA is much lighter and friendlier than Bats, and Ollie also lavishes in his playboy lifestyle, something that Bruce only uses as a cover.

[Supermania]

Yeah, I definitely think that TPTB were trying to make up for their loss of Bruce Wayne by including Oliver Queen in Smallville. He seriously has all the trademarks; he constantly argues with Clark over what he thinks is justice and he would kill someone if it meant saving the entire world. That is what Bruce wayne would do. I think it's a lame excuse to duplicate batman despite the clark/Oliver arguments being a cool storyline an' all

[The Caped Crusader]

The closest Joker to the actual one from the comics in my opinion was played by Paul Molnar in fan films by Bat in the Sun:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4095303199635469669&ei=ldYDSum4No3CrQL4n6mODA&q=patient+j

Joker's Christmas Special:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szAp6gleJd4&feature=channel_page

Batman Legends (I would LOVE Aaron Schoenke to be hired by Hollywood to make a film like this based on Knightfall):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq5RHUO6yLg&feature=channel_page


Between the insane laughs & his insanely evil actions, I think he just nailed it. Ledger did a pretty damn good job, but his Joker was too thuggish (like a mobster) rather than just completely insane. I also love how Molnar's Joker played off the dependency on Batman (how the Joker needs Batman) that has been apparent in the comics.

That was awesome! I wish i could be in a Rated R Batman fan film.

[jon-el87]

When GA first appeared in the 40's, it was clear to everyone that he was very similar to Batman; Both were rich guys, had sidekicks, both had caves, planes and cars (Batcave/Arrowcave, Batmobile/Arrowcar, Batplane/Arrowplane. They both also used gadgets (the only diffrence was that GA's gadgets were limited to trick arrows). GA was at this point and up to the late 60's seen simply as "Batman with a bow". But, then Denny O'Neill got to Ollie. Denny made Ollie loose all of his money, to take the character a little further away from Batman and he kept working on getting Green Arrow away from the whole "Batman with a bow" image, that GA had. Some people had reasoned that GA is Smallville's Batman or the Stand-in Batman, simply because he's rich and uses gadgets. But, to me, that doesn't really count. I mean, there's lots of costumed vigilantes out there who are rich and uses gadgets (take Marvel's Moon Knight for one, his name's even a suggestion of Batman; Dark Knight/Moon Knight, get it?), but that doesn't mean that they're Batman copies because of that. Smallville's Green Arrow is his own character, not Batman.

[mrbrightside]

I think the reason GA is in SV is because Batman cannot appear in the show. GA is the easiest and only choice to replace Batman's character. Both story arcs would be very very similar too.. Though i still hope they find a way to get the bat in the show..

[9-SOSIHTWB]

I've never really thought about it until now, I think they do have similarities, but not many!!!