Oliver is a HYPOCRIT!

[abbaspice1]

Always talking about killing the bad guy, killing Lex, killing David Bloom.

But his 'love' kills, well, kill everyone else but her!

He is such a PUNK! I have such little respect for Oliver. I cannot see him as a leader of the Justice League.

[scottman31486]

Personally, i disagree. i think he knows what needs to be done. Sometimes clark is a little too "moral". He needs to get his hands dirty to save humanity, and olvier knows this.

[green_arrow_girl358]

clark balances out clark and vice versa. they're both a bit too extreme for the other.

[prodigykane]

I see the point in your argument. I don't think she should be killed though.

[moviefan2k4]

Superman has a very strict code of "no killing", and that's as it should be. It's true that some have died while fighting Clark, but those events were largely out of his control. He doesn't deliberately murder other people, no matter how much it may seem right at the time.

[psyko69]

Always talking about killing the bad guy, killing Lex, killing David Bloom.

But his 'love' kills, well, kill everyone else but her!

He is such a PUNK! I have such little respect for Oliver. I cannot see him as a leader of the Justice League.

Well, according to next weeks trailer...

And since Ollie is kinda like Bruce Wayne, and sorta takes the Batman role for Smallville, him being willing to kill opposing Clark's view makes sense.

[dunkman]

Sure, Oliver Queen is a licentious buffoon, but I think they took it a little far with how much he was hitting on Tess tonight. I mean, he was busy stealing the Black Kryptonite; it doesn't make sense that he would pick then to be waiting in the bedroom.

He's definitely taking Batman's place in the story having that Kryptonite ring!

[melissan02]

Ollie's no hypocrit! He at least admitted to killing Lex! Chloe has never admitted to killing Sebastian! Even if it was as Brainiac (which is debatable, BTW), she's never fessed up...Ollie had to call her on the carpet for it, in fact!
Ollie's just being Ollie! He wants to do what needs to be done to Clark's and Earth's ultimte destroyer! Can't fault a guy for that! A guy w/ no super-powers to beat!

[dunkman]

Well, according to next weeks trailer...

And since Ollie is kinda like Bruce Wayne, and sorta takes the Batman role for Smallville, him being willing to kill opposing Clark's view makes sense.

Batman was never willing to kill, though, although he came close to killing Joker on several occassions. It was Wonder Woman who kept killing the bad guys, & that always bothered both Bruce and Clark, but they forgive her, because, you know...

Batman & Superman were opposite in their methods in many ways, but neither of them would kill, no matter what. I don't think Oliver really killed Lex, though; he just thinks he did.

[O'Neill]

I think Oliver should be the lead in the show. He's the kind of character that takes care of business.

Clark on the other hand, waits around while more innocent people die at the hands of doomsday. yeah, way to go Clark with your "no killing" rule. Just let someone else do it for you....

What a wimp.

[ManOfSteel87]

Sure, Oliver Queen is a licentious buffoon, but I think they took it a little far with how much he was hitting on Tess tonight. I mean, he was busy stealing the Black Kryptonite; it doesn't make sense that he would pick then to be waiting in the bedroom.

He's definitely taking Batman's place in the story having that Kryptonite ring!

Well it was either walk out in full GA attire in front of Tess, setting off all kinds of trouble, or strip down and hop into bed in waiting for Tess. That way, she doesn't find out about GA stealing the Black K. Nice move by Oliver IMO.

[Dyanara]

Oliver definitely should not be the leader of the justice league. Ive only seen JLUnlimited but arent CLark, Bruce, Wonder Woman and Flash and J'onn the official leaders? With Smallville there is a definite reason Oliver isnt in that group. I realized he was a hypocrite last week when he dared to ask Chloe when she became one of the bad guys, I would have said "5mins after you didnt turn yourself in for killing Lex"

[Poyntz]

Oliver needs some help i think. He is on a killing mode. He was going to kill parasite if clark didn't stop him.

oh and i loved the bedroom move i couldnt stop laughing LOL

[ManOfSteel87]

Oliver definitely should not be the leader of the justice league. Ive only seen JLUnlimited but arent CLark, Bruce, Wonder Woman and Flash and J'onn the official leaders? With Smallville there is a definite reason Oliver isnt in that group. I realized he was a hypocrite last week when he dared to ask Chloe when she became one of the bad guys, I would have said "5mins after you didnt turn yourself in for killing Lex"

In the comics, the founding members were Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Flash (Barry Allen), Green Lanter (Hal Jordan), Aquaman, and Martian Manhunter. Batman and Wonder Woman will not be on SV, the SV Flash is the Bart Allen Flash, and no GL has been on SV. The only original founding members to appear on SV are AC and MM, so to bring the JL to SV there had to be some changes made which included making Oliver the founder/leader of the JL. Plus, GA is supposed to act as sort of the "Batman" of SV.

[tippership commander]

Batman would one up Green Arrow, s obadly


they were complete mirrors of each other on "THE BATMAN"(yes ,i watched the batman, Sperman TAS, JL, JLU)

[RedKRules]

Clark should be one leading the Justice League, that´s all I will say.

[tippership commander]

i wonder why they droped the (GA takes bruce's place since the bat embargo is DC being dummies)

[Dyanara]

Yeah Oliver has nothing on Bruce, Oliver isnt even the poor man's Bruce hes the whinny man's Bruce

[tippership commander]

i mean, caz of the bat embargo, ollie is SUPPOSED to play a bruce role, but...they edged him off

[Dyanara]

Clark should be one leading the Justice League, that´s all I will say.

Clark has a hard enough time leading himself

[SGuthrie27]

I did not care for Oliver all that much in this episode... and not necessarily for being hypocritical. He's been on the "let's kill, let's kill, let's kill!" bandwagon for quite a while now, so it shouldn't have come as a TERRIBLY big shock to Clark that Oliver would've killed Lex, especially after how close he was to the brink when he discovered the truth about what Lionel had done to his parents. I just didn't like how, once again, he was so self-righteous around Clark, and talks down to him like he's a little kid. Here Clark actually has a plan -- a pretty good, well thought-out plan, actually -- and all he can do is keep on harping about killing, almost brain a guy with a pool ball, and strut around naked in Tess' bedroom. And besides, if he had enough time to completely strip of his clothes and hide them (and his arrows and quiver) then he would've had plenty of opportunity to leap out the window and escape, too. Ugh.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Dyanara]

Maybe Oliver just has more practice at getting naked as opposed to quick escapes

[NinaDavis]

Clark has a hard enough time leading himself
Agree! One step forward two steps backwards. :\

[O'Neill]

Clark has a hard enough time leading himself

I have to agree. The Justice League would all be dead by now if he was leading.

[RedKRules]

Clark has a hard enough time leading himself

Well, I think Olliver should follow Clark´s step then .... because just killing around will never be answer for everything ...

[Ella]

Sure, Oliver Queen is a licentious buffoon, but I think they took it a little far with how much he was hitting on Tess tonight. I mean, he was busy stealing the Black Kryptonite; it doesn't make sense that he would pick then to be waiting in the bedroom.

He's definitely taking Batman's place in the story having that Kryptonite ring!
Um, he only did that so that Tess wouldn't catch him stealing the black kryptonite... aka he pretended to be there waiting for her when in reality he was just caught in the act...of stealing the black k that is...

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


Well it was either walk out in full GA attire in front of Tess, setting off all kinds of trouble, or strip down and hop into bed in waiting for Tess. That way, she doesn't find out about GA stealing the Black K. Nice move by Oliver IMO.
Yes, of course. He wasn't really there to sleep with Tess. It was a plan to misdirect her from what he was really caught doing, stealing.

[super_j_man]

I think Oliver should be the lead in the show. He's the kind of character that takes care of business.

Clark on the other hand, waits around while more innocent people die at the hands of doomsday. yeah, way to go Clark with your "no killing" rule. Just let someone else do it for you....

What a wimp.

Clark's a wimp for not killing anybody? Just because Clark has powers doesn't mean he should get to choose who lives or dies. How do you justify taking a life? After all, Clark has stolen before. When he was on red K he robbed banks, ATM machines, and tried to hurt anybody who got in his way. Would you say that's grounds to kill Clark? Killing is wrong and if Clark ever did that he would be no different than the bad guys. The way Ollie's been lately, he starting to sound more like a bad guy than a hero. Superman has a moral code that he follows. Even Batman is the same way. Have you seen Batman Begins? "I'm no executioner." - Bruce Wayne.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I did not care for Oliver all that much in this episode... and not necessarily for being hypocritical. He's been on the "let's kill, let's kill, let's kill!" bandwagon for quite a while now, so it shouldn't have come as a TERRIBLY big shock to Clark that Oliver would've killed Lex, especially after how close he was to the brink when he discovered the truth about what Lionel had done to his parents. I just didn't like how, once again, he was so self-righteous around Clark, and talks down to him like he's a little kid. Here Clark actually has a plan -- a pretty good, well thought-out plan, actually -- and all he can do is keep on harping about killing, almost brain a guy with a pool ball, and strut around naked in Tess' bedroom. And besides, if he had enough time to completely strip of his clothes and hide them (and his arrows and quiver) then he would've had plenty of opportunity to leap out the window and escape, too. Ugh.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

ITA!!! Well put SGuthrie!:D

[Dyanara]

Clark has a hard enough time leading himself

Though I must say that last scene with Oliver definitelys howed leadership potential. Definitely more than Oliver has

[TWLOVER03]

anyone think Oliver wanting to kill so many is foreshadowing to him dying in the finale?

[BadToad]

I think Oliver needs some therapy. He's just kind of nuts right now. I can understand him disagreeing with Clark's philosophy about Davis/Doomsday, but his whole general attitude and agressive tendencies make him unstable and unpredictable. And kind of a jerk.

[liana]

Well, according to next weeks trailer...

And since Ollie is kinda like Bruce Wayne, and sorta takes the Batman role for Smallville, him being willing to kill opposing Clark's view makes sense.

No, it doesn't. Batman doesn't kill. I really wanted to know who started this idea that Batman supported killing when this is one of the fewer points that Superman and Batman are in complete agreement!

Once again, because it can't be repeated enough: BATMAN DOES NOT KILL. I don't know if Green Arrow is some sort of vigilante in the Comics, and if he does believe that you should make justice with own hands, and if he thinks himself able to decide who should or shouldn't die. But I can guarantee you that Bruce Wayne doesn't believe that.

[chlo-el]

They were making Oliver, Tess and the injustice League memebers look very similar in the way they see things. To me showing the whole killing thing as a first resort is not the right heroic way to go.

[liana]

They were making Oliver, Tess and the injustice League memebers look very similar in the way they see things. To me showing the whole killing thing as a first resort is not the right heroic way to go.

Of course it is not. Besides, eveyone seems to forget that Doomsday can't be killed. In the end of the day, it will turn out that Clark was right all along for looking for another way of stopping Doomsday without killing him.:\

[Clois4eva89]

I think this whole Oliver obsession with killing the bad guy is what causes him.To lose his leader role in the Justice League i'd take Clark's side over Oliver any day of the week. Becasue granting the villain mercy with their life,is what seperates them from the forces of good. As said in Injustice by killing the bad people that makes us no different than they are.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Realistically I see the practicality of Ollie's way of thinking but Clark has his principles and he's strong enough to stand up for them which I can respect. He might seem a little naive since his way of doing things seem so impossible for anyone but he always wins out in the end. If he couldn't, I guess he wouldn't be Superman.

[liana]

I think Oliver needs some therapy. He's just kind of nuts right now. I can understand him disagreeing with Clark's philosophy about Davis/Doomsday, but his whole general attitude and agressive tendencies make him unstable and unpredictable. And kind of a jerk.

I think his guilty over killing Lex is affecting his mind. It is the only way I can see it. It is like he wants Clark to do the same thing he did, so that he can feel better with himself, because, ultimately, he knows that Clark is right. :( He likes to pretend that he did it to protect Clark, but he did it to revenge his parent's death. He didn't have Lionel around to kill, so he took the next best thing: killing Lionel's son. In the end, it wasn't fullfulling, because revenge never is. It didn't bring back his parents, and it didn't make their death hurt less. But he has to believe it served for something, or he would feel even worse about it than he already feels. :\

Maybe he will feel better about it, when he finds out that he never killed Lex to begin with. Because we all know that Lex is most likely alive.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


Realistically I see the practicality of Ollie's way of thinking but Clark has his principles and he's strong enough to stand up for them which I can respect. He might seem a little naive since his way of doing things seem so impossible for anyone but he always wins out in the end. If he couldn't, I guess he wouldn't be Superman.

But Oliver's way of thinking is too dangerous. Who is him to judge who has to die or who isn't? Even with tribunals and justice, how many times had innocent people been condemned to death penalties? And what is worse: when someone dies, there is no coming back. Once you make a mistake, there is no way to reverse it. It is just not Oliver's place to judge who has to die, and who had not. He is not a god. He is walking down a dangerous path, and if he continues on it, one of these days, he will be killing an innocent.

[kp1984]

Look like it showed Oliver shooting Daivs with arrows in next week epoisde.

[Sports72Xtrm]

But Oliver's way of thinking is too dangerous. Who is him to judge who has to die or who isn't? Even with tribunals and justice, how many times had innocent people been condemned to death penalties? And what is worse: when someone dies, there is no coming back. Once you make a mistake, there is no way to reverse it. It is just not Oliver's place to judge who has to die, and who had not. He is not a god. He is walking down a dangerous path, and if he continues on it, one of these days, he will be killing an innocent.

Well technically, many of the villians are already playing God. Clark treats criminality like it's a sickness that needs to be cured. Ollie is treating it like a war. It's like in Saving Private Ryan. When they capture a bunch of Nazi soldiers, the Americans all wanted to execute them but one idealists always comes out to talk about fairness, kindness, and rainbows. It's all good until the German soldier comes back at the end of the movie to stab one of his comerades with a knife. Is it really good to put morality above human self preservation instincts? I mean, you could do it in a fictitious world but can you do it in real life? I don't think I could but that's just me.

[Dyanara]

This is how I see it, In Bad Boys and Mission Impossible II, I remember scenes towards the end where the hero wanted to kill the villain for personal reasons and because he knew they were a danger to society. But they walked away and let the villain live because that is what seperates the villain from the hero. Then the villain picked up a gun and was about to kill the hero only to have the hero kill him first. That is how I see it, you kill only when it is your last resort or your life is in danger. Not because of the potential threat

[I_am_LEX]

I understand where both of them come from. Killing is wrong. They both know it. The problem is that Clark doesn't see that Davis/Doomsday is not a man. Oliver knows what needs to be done, but neither of them fully understand what is going on or what should be done. The phantom zone actually makes more sense to me. Cause how the hell would he get out?

[CreamPuffer]

Well, according to next weeks trailer...

And since Ollie is kinda like Bruce Wayne, and sorta takes the Batman role for Smallville, him being willing to kill opposing Clark's view makes sense.


Um, last time I checked Bruce Wayne does not kill in cold blood like Oliver. Not too mention, he thinks of alternatives to killing before even considering taking that step. Oliver is nothing like Super Batman.

[Dyanara]

Another hypocritical think I thought Oliver said was, Lex proved he would have killed Clark by having that ring....yet Oliver had the ring as well so what does that make him?

[CreamPuffer]

Ollie's no hypocrit! He at least admitted to killing Lex! Chloe has never admitted to killing Sebastian! Even if it was as Brainiac (which is debatable, BTW), she's never fessed up...Ollie had to call her on the carpet for it, in fact!
Ollie's just being Ollie! He wants to do what needs to be done to Clark's and Earth's ultimte destroyer! Can't fault a guy for that! A guy w/ no super-powers to beat!

Nobody is talking about Chloe here so chill out. This is about Oliver being too extreme. Clark is right, as heroes you have to set an example. Oliver is a poor excuse for a hero. While Chloe killed to protect Clark, Oliver killed for pure vengeance. His motivation to kill Lex was never for the good of the world, he just uses that excuse to make himself look better. Look at him now, gunning for Clark to kill Davis. Yes, he's an ultimate destroyer but beneath that he's a good person. Davis is a victim not a villain. Not once has Oliver though about trying to save Davis. What makes us human is having a heart and not easily giving up on someone who wants help and choosing the easy way out.

[smallvillerocks45]

What I don't understand is how people expect Clark to do this so-called killing.

Doomsday is ostensibly invulnerable to any and all attacks. If it kills him, he comes back more powerful than before. What is Clark supposed to do? If someone could give an actual example - I'm listening Oliver, heck if Jor-El could offer some guidance - than I could see that Clark is sidestepping a potential solution. Yet, with the way things are now, I think it is very smart of Clark to try the least harmful means as a first option... why waste potential self-defense mechanisms when individually they won't work in the long run anyway?

Where there's a will, there's a way, but Clark is still searching for that path... I don't think he deserves the bashing he gets from Oliver or Tess for that matter. Of course Clark wants to save humanity - that's why he is the Red-Blue Blur, that's why he's trying so hard to find a solution - but once again, it's not like anyone is giving him any helpful information. They're telling him everything he needs to do, all without the how. Now, I don't expect them to know how... but when Clark is trying to figure it out, it really isn't helpful to yell at him for not doing enough. He's doing the best he can.

[jpfort1957]

Oliver wants the best for the whole world. He has no super powers........yet he's going to rid the world of Doomsday to the best of his abilities even if he dies in the process.
How could anyone blame GA for killing Lex? Lex killed his parents and tried to kill Ollie 3 times. Lex would have tried until Ollie was dead. Ollie's only way to survive was to TAKE LEX OUT.

[neoblackdragon]

The irony of everything is that at the end of the day Clarks methods tend to work.Also it was Lionel who killed his parents. Lex was like 7 when that happened. Lex only tried to kill Oliver when Oliver showed up as Green Arrow and tried to use lethal force on Lex. I mean if I were Lex, I got terrorist blowing up my factories and breaking into my house pointing a crossbow at me. Yeah Im gonna play nice.

[melissan02]

This is about Oliver being too extreme. Clark is right, as heroes you have to set an example. For Oliver to act any other way though would be too OOC, which is why I stated in my first post that Ollie's just being Ollie.;)


Oliver is a poor excuse for a hero. I wouldn't go to the extreme to say that Ollie's a poor excuse for a hero. He did save Clark tonight after all. While he's often too quick to jump the gun and act w/out thinking, Ollie is still a hero. Unlike Clark, he doesn't have the luxury of being indestructible. Therefore, when he sees a threat, he wants to be your typical get-it-done Ollie and take action...do whatever is necessary.


While Chloe killed to protect Clark, Oliver killed for pure vengeance. Ollie didn't kill for vengeance alone. At least I don't believe he did. But I'm partial to a shirtless Ollie.:lol: I think part of his motivation for killing Lex (even though Lex is alive and kicking) was to protect Clark, as Lex knew his secret and wanted to destroy Clark. As Ollie stated tonight, he took care of Lex because he was a threat to Clark.


His motivation to kill Lex was never for the good of the world, he just uses that excuse to make himself look better. Again, see my previous comments. I'd say Ollie killing Lex was 80 % to protect Clark, and 20% vengeance. JMHO.


Look at him now, gunning for Clark to kill Davis. This isn't Davis...it's Doomsday! I agree w/ Ollie that Clark can't waiver on this one. He must do what needs to be done. Perhaps it's because I identify more w/ Ollie's seemingly vigilante style of justice, but I'm on his side in this.


Yes, he's an ultimate destroyer but beneath that he's a good person. Davis is a victim not a villain. There is no Davis. Davis is a shell masking Doomsday. Sorry, but I can't agree that he is a "victim" or a "good person".:confused: I think that will be made clear next week...hopefully.


Not once has Oliver though about trying to save Davis. Again, that would be completely OOC for Oliver.


What makes us human is having a heart and not easily giving up on someone who wants help and choosing the easy way out.I think before Chloe knew who Davis was, she genuinely wanted to help him. And I think that's well within her characterization. I think Clark wants to believe this too, but I sense doubt from Clark that he truly believes Davis is actually a "man" to be saved, which is why he seems conflicted IMO.

[Kal-El90]

To quote (moviefan2k4) "He doesn't deliberately murder other people, no matter how much it may seem right at the time." True superman has his morals and stuff but i really believe that clark has to get his hands dirty on this one..i mean its frekin doomsday ryt..he aint gnna stop killin'...so **** the moral crap..jus this once :D..and kick doomsday's ass..you know, "ACCIDENTALLY" killing him in the process ;)

[Rift]

Hi. I'm the future Superman.

I lie when it suits me, manipulate my friends into doing my bidding, openly show them my distrust, command them to butt out unless it helps me, and then chastise them as being morally weak in order to justify my behavior.

When my friends prove time and again that they have my back and appeal to me for at least a half ounce of compassion for failing to completely live up to the high-horse ideals that are much easier to have when you are nearly indestructable, I will brow beat them and question their loyalty and heroism.

When they offer an olive branch out of respect and admiration for me, I will spurn them out of vanity, scolding them in the process like a parent punishing a petulant child.
---------------------

I understand there will be disagreements in morality and ethics between the heroes--that's part of what makes these iconic characters interesting. But having Clark almost infer that Ollie is more an enemy than a friend seemed outlandish, petty, and about as far from Superman-like as he can be.

[Superman of Krypton]

Clark always gets overemotional with people.

But Oliver crossed the line when he killed Lex.

At this point, I can't take sides since both of them are major screwups.

[Joanna]

I'm totally with Clark on this one. Oliver kiled Lex and what's more important: why wold he keep the kryptonite ring??

[Smallville Vamp]

When they offer an olive branch out of respect and admiration for me, I will spurn them out of vanity, scolding them in the process like a parent punishing a petulant child.
---------------------

I understand there will be disagreements in morality and ethics between the heroes--that's part of what makes these iconic characters interesting. But having Clark almost infer that Ollie is more an enemy than a friend seemed outlandish, petty, and about as far from Superman-like as he can be.

Yeah Oliver is about the last person Clark should treat as if HE'S NOT WORTHY!!!

That little booger eater Parasite already pwned Clark and took his powers THEN was about to waste him if Oliver hadn't stormed in there like a real hero with an actual plan!

[Estro-gen X]

In Smallville clark is completely intolerant of other people's moral perspective. He does not see the grey area. There is right and there is wrong and Ollie has challenged him on his perceptions of right and wrong ever since season 6. (Lionel's necklace)

[wolverine316]

I am totally on Clark's side. Lets see your supposed friend killed Lex, has a kryptonite ring that he never told you about. Talks about killing like it is nothing. The dude needs a shrink.

[myankskent]

I understand there will be disagreements in morality and ethics between the heroes--that's part of what makes these iconic characters interesting. But having Clark almost infer that Ollie is more an enemy than a friend seemed outlandish, petty, and about as far from Superman-like as he can be.

Well, Oliver killed Lex, kept the kryptonite ring and next week, it looks like he will shoot Clark with a kryptonite arrow judging by the preview. If Oliver isn't more Clark's enemy, then how do we explain all of the above?

[aceofclubs]

I don't think Oliver is Clark's enemy, its just neither are seeing eye to eye. Its always darkest before dawn and I think they will come out of this season still on the same side even if they arent friends.

[Estro-gen X]

Well, Oliver killed Lex, kept the kryptonite ring and next week, it looks like he will shoot Clark with a kryptonite arrow judging by the preview. If Oliver isn't more Clark's enemy, then how do we explain all of the above?

same objective but different actions. The fact they have the same objective puts them on the same side. They both want good to prevail but how to make that happen is a disagreement. Would you kill a man that was going to blow up a school if you didn't see any other way of stopping him?

[prodigykane]

Yeah Oliver is about the last person Clark should treat as if HE'S NOT WORTHY!!!

That little booger eater Parasite already pwned Clark and took his powers THEN was about to waste him if Oliver hadn't stormed in there like a real hero with an actual plan!

Greatly put

[Smallville Vamp]

If Oliver isn't more Clark's enemy, then how do we explain all of the above?

Oliver is far from Clarks enemy or he wouldn't have gone out of the way to help(even save) him as far as I'm concerned he could have just walked away and let whatever happen to him happen but Oliver didn't do that. His lie, cheat and steal method to get things done allowed him to come out on top PLUS he saved Clarks butt AGAIN!

So it's not what most look for in a hero but I'll take it over letting the bad guys win ANY day of the week.

ETA: I'd bet Oliver thinks he's doing these things to protect Clark and I would agree!

[dru-zod2501]

If Ollie deserves better, let him BE better then

[ReevesSuperman]

Clark's high ideals are from Johnathan, but even Johnathan relaxed on them when it counted. Clark's rose colored glasses on the show has been irrating since the last few episodes of last season. I really don't see killing Lex has a been deal since he killed almost every guest star in season 7 plus I don't think that was Lex. I'd keep a Kryptonite ring too if my Kryptonain friend refuses to do anything about his Kryptonain enemies. Clark really doesn't have friends either, he has people who save his ass and then he dismisses them. The first post sums up Clark of late to a tee.

[myankskent]

Would you kill a man that was going to blow up a school if you didn't see any other way of stopping him?

Well, I wouldn't shoot someone else who was trying to stop the guy who was trying to blow up the school. That's pretty much what Oliver has been doing when it comes to Clark.

[All about Clark]

I'm on both sides some how. Clark is right that killing is not the right answer, however, Oliver was not wrong in keeping Lex's krypto ring. It would be necessary if Clark got taken over or like this eppy with taking Clark's power, the ring seems necessary to me. I liked that Clark and Oliver each told each other what they did wrong, Clark lying to Oliver to get the black k and Oliver confessing the killing of Lex. While I think the way Oliver handled it was wrong, I'm happy with the end result, and that is Lex isn't causing more deaths, or until we see his clone or something. All in all, these men have to have an understanding of how each stands. And I think Oliver does appreciate it when Clark reels him back in, like when Clark told Oliver to stop before he killed Parasite. I think these two need to fine some middle ground they can each handle.

Plus I'm glad that Oliver got to save Clark for once, since usually it is Clark saving Oliver.

[Iluvgreen]

Well, Clark would never kill anybody. But he just takes the black kryptonite, without even saying "Thank you Oliver. I really apriciate you helping. You almost had your identity revealed, and it means alot that you would help me out." Instead he just takes it, and then tells Oliver that they arn't friends anymore.

But on the other hand, Oliver did kill Lex. He took someone's life, and Clark will never agree with that.

[All about Clark]

I didn't expect Clark to thank Oliver for the black k. They have each done for each other and have never expected the thank you's, they just do what's necessary. You can understand that Clark was upset over Oliver killing Lex in cold blood as it were. The only think I wished for was Clark saying, "I hope we're still friends", or something to that effect instead of leaving it open. But clearly he wanted to make it known that they do not agree on the killing issue.

[jpfort1957]

Well, Clark would never kill anybody. But he just takes the black kryptonite, without even saying "Thank you Oliver. I really apriciate you helping. You almost had your identity revealed, and it means alot that you would help me out." Instead he just takes it, and then tells Oliver that they arn't friends anymore.

But on the other hand, Oliver did kill Lex. He took someone's life, and Clark will never agree with that.

Clark had tp play Oliver to get the job done. Oliver believes Davis/DD has to be killed to save everyone. Oliver isn't interested in an untested theory of seperating the two of them to save the killer Davis.
Nobody will ever know Oliver almost got busted. He will never tell the story about how he had to strip down and jump into Tess's bed for a make believe booty call, just to get turned down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Olliver will be cleared of his murder when Lex, in some form, reappears.

[cksidekick]

I'll just quote Clark because it is one of the most Superman(ly) things he's ever said on this show. And I'm glad he FINALLY did.


"Like it or not we stand for something! We set an example for people to follow and if we don't, we are no better than the people we fight."


If Oliver can't grasp that concept then he should go back to Star City and let Clark look out for his own town. Thank God Superman is on this show to keep all these Murderous Vigilantes under control! It never fails to amaze me, how so many people want to watch a show about a future Superman who actually doesn't act like Superman. I mean, what do people expect from this guy? Personally, I expect him to walk and talk and ACT like Superman.


edit: and for the record he DID thank Oliver. Then he said, "I'll take it from here."


.

[sithius]

We have people moaning about Clark not making a big deal out of killing (remember how he said 'makes me sick I had to take a life' to Lex in I think season 7 when Michael Cain appeared) yet when Clark stands his ground and says 'Killing is wrong' people moan about that too.

You are watching a show about an upcoming Superman. If you want a hero who kills you are watching the wrong show. What did you expect?

I for one am glad that Clark has finally stood up to Oliver and set him straight. In the past Clark used to just let him talk down to him but in this episode he showed real strength and an attitude that is worthy to be attached to Superman.

[SupermanRox]

Well, Oliver killed Lex, kept the kryptonite ring and next week, it looks like he will shoot Clark with a kryptonite arrow judging by the preview. If Oliver isn't more Clark's enemy, then how do we explain all of the above?

Things are never the way they seem in the previews. It has NEVER been the way the previews appear once the original episode airs.

[Deana]

What I don't understand is why he declared Ollie the enemy because he killed one person—a person who deserved killing—and Clark himself would have killed this person if Lana had not stopped him, yet he some how thinks that Davis—the manipulative jerk that has killed a whole town's worth of people—deserves to be saved and given another chance. Davis so wins here on the kill front.

I smell bull.

I don't blame Ollie. Davis should be in the Phanton Zone, already, but Clark let Chloe manipulate him into letting Davis go. Chloe is helping a murderer continue murdering but Clark has the nerve to look down on Ollie for killing Captain Baldy. He and Chloe just sentenced more people to die but Ollie is the enemy????

When he says the same kind of speech to Chloe, then I'll decide to ignore his hypocrite tendencies. Clark should have spent the time he used judging Ollie, for tracking down Davis and dragging the champion killer back to be imprisoned in the Phantom Zone.

[Rift]

We have people moaning about Clark not making a big deal out of killing (remember how he said 'makes me sick I had to take a life' to Lex in I think season 7 when Michael Cain appeared) yet when Clark stands his ground and says 'Killing is wrong' people moan about that too.

Not sure if that was directed at my initial statement or someone else's in the thread, but I am not moaning about Clark standing his ground on the subject--I bemoan the WAY they have him doing it, and how he is treating his allies like crap.

[DestinyAw8s]

What I don't understand is why he declared Ollie the enemy because he killed one person—a person who deserved killing—and Clark himself would have killed this person if Lana had not stopped him, yet he some how thinks that Davis—the manipulative jerk that has killed a whole town's worth of people—deserves to be saved and given another chance. Davis so wins here on the kill front.

I smell bull.

I don't blame Ollie. Davis should be in the Phanton Zone, already, but Clark let Chloe manipulate him into letting Davis go. Chloe is helping a murderer continue murdering but Clark has the nerve to look down on Ollie for killing Captain Baldy. He and Chloe just sentenced more people to die but Ollie is the enemy????

When he says the same kind of speech to Chloe, then I'll decide to ignore his hypocrite tendencies. Clark should have spent the time he used judging Ollie, for tracking down Davis and dragging the champion killer back to be imprisoned in the Phantom Zone.
I have to agree with this post. The bolded part jumped straight into my head as soon as Ollie told Clark he'd killed Lex. But for Lana, Clark would be walking in Oliver's shoes.

[liana]

Well technically, many of the villians are already playing God. Clark treats criminality like it's a sickness that needs to be cured. Ollie is treating it like a war. It's like in Saving Private Ryan. When they capture a bunch of Nazi soldiers, the Americans all wanted to execute them but one idealists always comes out to talk about fairness, kindness, and rainbows. It's all good until the German soldier comes back at the end of the movie to stab one of his comerades with a knife. Is it really good to put morality above human self preservation instincts? I mean, you could do it in a fictitious world but can you do it in real life? I don't think I could but that's just me.

But this is not a war. For criminals like Lex (the one that Oliver killed), there is the justice. And even the justice eventually condemn innocents. I could list here how many times innocents have been killed by members of the police that think exactly the same way that Oliver does. The difference being, of course, that in fiction, when it is convenient to the story, the guy that kills in the name of 'justice' is never wrong. In real life, however, things are a lot different. :\ And besides, this doesn't apply to Doosmday. Killing him only makes him stronger. The solution is not to kill, but to banish him. Unfortunately, thanks to both Chloe and Tess, this is not possible any more. :(

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Um, last time I checked Bruce Wayne does not kill in cold blood like Oliver. Not too mention, he thinks of alternatives to killing before even considering taking that step. Oliver is nothing like Super Batman.

Actually, Bruce never kills. It is against everything he believes him. The guy wouldn't even use a gun to protect himself, because guns remind him of how his parents died.

The only time that I have ever seen Bruce Wayne close to kill someone was in Batman begins, and that was years before he became Batman. And he realized he was wrong. I still remember what he told Ras A Gul: 'I won't kill you. But I don't have to save you...' Superman would have saved Ras A Gul, sure, but none of them would have killed him. :\

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----


Nobody is talking about Chloe here so chill out. This is about Oliver being too extreme. Clark is right, as heroes you have to set an example. Oliver is a poor excuse for a hero. While Chloe killed to protect Clark, Oliver killed for pure vengeance. His motivation to kill Lex was never for the good of the world, he just uses that excuse to make himself look better. Look at him now, gunning for Clark to kill Davis. Yes, he's an ultimate destroyer but beneath that he's a good person. Davis is a victim not a villain. Not once has Oliver though about trying to save Davis. What makes us human is having a heart and not easily giving up on someone who wants help and choosing the easy way out.

Exactly. Oliver killed Lex to fulfill his own desire of revenge. He wanted to kill Lionel to avenge his parent's murder, but Lionel was already dead, so he killed Lex instead, and reasoned it by saying it was to protect Clark. We all know that before Tess told him about Lionel, not even once Oliver manifested any desire to kill Lex. He only started to consider it after learning the truth. :\ And after Oliver crossed that line for the first time, he just doesn't even stop to think any more. He doesn't listen to what anyone can tell him. Not even once he asked Clark: do you have a better solution? Maybe, if he had, Clark would have told him that killing Davis might be very difficult. Maybe he would have told him that Davis evolves and becomes stronger each time he survives. But what is the use of reasoning with Oliver right now? He is so involved into his 'kill, kill, kill, kill' that he doesn't even consider that maybe killing is the last thing ever he should do. :(

----- Added 14 Minutes later -----


To quote (moviefan2k4) "He doesn't deliberately murder other people, no matter how much it may seem right at the time." True superman has his morals and stuff but i really believe that clark has to get his hands dirty on this one..i mean its frekin doomsday ryt..he aint gnna stop killin'...so **** the moral crap..jus this once :D..and kick doomsday's ass..you know, "ACCIDENTALLY" killing him in the process ;)

You do realize that even if Clark could kill him, he would only ressurrect again and become stronger untill he becomes strong enough to kill Clark. And when he reached that point he would be unstoppable, right? If there is one time where Clark should not get his hands dirty is exactly with an enemy that becomes stronger when he gets killed. Just saying. ;)

Not that I think that Clark ever should stop being who he is. He is not "the Punisher", you know, he is Superman. :) And Superman is supposed to be the symbol of Hope. A Superman that becomes a vigilante will not inspire anyone, and will most certainly not bring hope. The day Superman becomes "the Punisher", Hope will be his first victim. :(

[rehana/chole]

clark has a hard enough time leading himself


lol so true

[Deana]

I would agree with Ollie if he had a better plan instead of kill the monster. His plan should be kidnapping Chloe from Davis, Bart would happily do this, and they relocate her to the FOS(after the league finds it). When Davis(Doomsday useless costume) comes for her . . . trap his butt in the Phantom Zone.

Oh no, there is one person who would be in the way, Clark Kent. One who thinks it is wrong to send a Krpytonian Murderer to a Kryptonian Prison, thanks to his best friend. Tranquilizer arrow laced with a dash of Kryptonite, anyone? Let him sleep through the entire ordeal. :lol:

[super_j_man]

Oh no, there is one person who would be in the way, Clark Kent. One who thinks it is wrong to send a Krpytonian Murderer to a Kryptonian Prison. Tranquilizer arrow laced with a dash of Kryptonite, anyone? Let him sleep through the entire ordeal. :lol:

What are you talking about?? Clark is the one who came up with the PZ plan and still wants to implement it. It's everybody else that stands in his way.

[Dyanara]

Oliver just shouldnt be involved at all, he is just too focused on jumping the gun on everything. Oliver sits in the corner until he is needed and let Chloe and CLark try to solve it without taking out Davis. If not then Oliver can come back in.

[Deana]

What are you talking about?? Clark is the one who came up with the PZ plan and still wants to implement it. It's everybody else that stands in his way.Since Chloe enlightened Clark, he wants to separate Davis from Dooms and then send him to the Phantom Zone. Both Davis and Dooms are killers and both need to be sent there.

I want Ollie to go through with Clark's original plan to send Davis Bloom into the Phantom Zone instead of the Kill Doomsday plan. I see Clark standing in the way of his original plan after his words in this episode.

[Dyanara]

Davis does not deserve the Phantom Zone, Davis deserves jail. We on earth do not send our serial killers to alien versions of Alcatraz

[magic]

Davis does not deserve the Phantom Zone, Davis deserves jail. We on earth do not send our serial killers to alien versions of Alcatraz
no, we send them to the electric chair

[Dyanara]

And that is called Justice, not some premature Superheroes trying to play God.

[Deana]

Davis does not deserve the Phantom Zone, Davis deserves jail. We on earth do not send our serial killers to alien versions of AlcatrazDavis is Doomsday so he deserves what Doomsday deserves. It is a mad killer (in both forms) and it needs to be sent into the Phantom Zone.

[melissan02]

There is no Davis. He's the shell of a man masking Doomsday. Clark himself referred to "Doomsday" in Injustice when he was speaking to Ollie about "him". I picked up on it right away, as he didn't use the name "Davis" in the conversation.

If you send "Davis" to the PZ, you're sending Doomsday. Let it be done!

So while I agree w/ Ollie that this needs to be dealt with immediately for Clark's and the planet's safety, I also agree w/ Clark that Doomsday needs to go to the PZ ASAP! He was ready, willing, and in control to do so in Beast, but Chloe stepped in and stopped him from doing so w/ a guilt trip!
I just don't see Ollie as a hypocrit, when he's acting completely in character.

[SupermanRox]

Oliver wants the best for the whole world. He has no super powers........yet he's going to rid the world of Doomsday to the best of his abilities even if he dies in the process.
How could anyone blame GA for killing Lex? Lex killed his parents and tried to kill Ollie 3 times. Lex would have tried until Ollie was dead. Ollie's only way to survive was to TAKE LEX OUT.

I'm a big GA/Oliver fan so I totally agree with this. I can also see what everyone else is saying too and I understand where they're coming from.

[kris10]

Clark's a wimp for not killing anybody? Just because Clark has powers doesn't mean he should get to choose who lives or dies. How do you justify taking a life? After all, Clark has stolen before. When he was on red K he robbed banks, ATM machines, and tried to hurt anybody who got in his way. Would you say that's grounds to kill Clark? Killing is wrong and if Clark ever did that he would be no different than the bad guys. The way Ollie's been lately, he starting to sound more like a bad guy than a hero. Superman has a moral code that he follows. Even Batman is the same way. Have you seen Batman Begins? "I'm no executioner." - Bruce Wayne.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



ITA!!! Well put SGuthrie!:D

Well said. superman has never been about just killing someone. Clark wants to save Davis and get rid of doomsday and thats who superman really is. hes not a wimp just because he takes the moral high ground? that what hes SUPPOSED to do.
if davis wasnt even a part of doomsday then i think he would have to consider it but clark's main dilema is that Davis is still in there...kind of luke did for his father vader there was good in him and he killed thousands didnt he but there was redemption. i dont think a lot of people get the whole premise of superman.

[magic]

the premise being that he's a fascist delusional idiot?:rolleyes:

[SGuthrie27]

Thanks, Jess and Kristen! I'm really glad to see that I wasn't alone in my concept of who Superman is, and why Clark was making the decisions that he was. Great thoughts!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

P.S. How is fighting for the greater good and trying to save lives no matter what making Clark a "fascist delusional idiot?" He said that he believes there's good in everyone that's worth saving, and in the case of Davis, that human persona has done some very heroic things, before he succumbed to his dark side. What's so idiotic about Clark's plan here? I think he's making the right move and that Oliver resorts too easily to dealing the killing stroke.

[magic]

so he wants to save Davis now?
just last week he wanted to toss him to the PZ

and what makes Clark so right?

[jim mayniam]

oliver is a realist. clark is an idealist (who is currently not seeing the forest for the trees).

if clark ends up doing what everyone else knows has to be done then he will become the hypocrite. IMO, this is what he most fears.

ETA: fear may be too strong. i think he is afraid that he is running out of options and that others "may have been right".

[Dyanara]

I say Oliver is a facist who thank God doesnt have Clark's abilities.