Clark is so weak

[DaTraggernaut]

I'm so tired of him always getting his powers taken or being to NICE!!

[O'Neill]

Agreed. Clark is getting more and more wimpy with each episode. Im willing to bet that he will be the one to die for the finale.

You stick superman! Boooo!!

[Smallville6]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

[Night_Hawk90]

for a guy with a vast array of superpowers he always gets ambushed its makes his character look so dumb.

[REebee52]

for a guy with a vast array of superpowers he always gets ambushed its makes his character look so dumb.

Yeah, but this is true in all versions of Superman. If someone wanted to, they could write Clark like he would be: completely overpowering. But that really makes for boring stories.

[davidbrenton]

This was an awesome Clark portrayal episode. I am very happy with his development this season.

He emits Superman extremely strongly now.

--Even his movements I can "see" him moving in his Superman suit.

----- Added 48 Seconds later -----


Yeah, but this is true in all versions of Superman. If someone wanted to, they could write Clark like he would be: completely overpowering. But that really makes for boring stories.

Yes. There's no stakes that way. They are keeping him strong without being weak (As in Clark around Lana).

[Night_Hawk90]

Yeah, but this is true in all versions of Superman. If someone wanted to, they could write Clark like he would be: completely overpowering. But that really makes for boring stories.

i understand but i am just saying it would be nice if he would use i dont know superhearing or x-ray vision in the scene i know why they did it in the episode. It just would be nice if it didnt happen all the time

[kryptotrite]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

^ Thank you!! Clark was NOT wimpy! He was speaking very authoritatively and decisively. He is CHOOSING to rise above those who would kill.
He said to Ollie that if they kill, they are NO DIFFERENT than the people they fight.
He told Tess, "NO ONE has the right to choose who lives and dies."

This is why CLARK will go on to be SUPERMAN...the most loved hero ever...and soooooo many people have not heard of Green Arrow b/c Ollie is acting like a douche!

[green_arrow_girl358]

i just hope he isn't so wimpy next epi

[dru-zod2501]

most of these problems would go away if he would use his superhearing more intelligently, but in general Clark was in fine form tonight

[AndiGirl]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

A-MEN Shelly!!
Of course he wants to save Davis...he's freaking Superman. So if he can find a way (which he usually does) to save the world without killing, he will do it.

And the kid could take someones powers by touching them.....what was he supposed to do? Predict that the kid would do a little freaky power suck thing on him when he touched him? :confused:

I was personally incredibly proud of Clark in this episode. He's definitely starting to look like Superman. :)

[O'Neill]

Oh please, Oliver was the one that actually had some brass about him in this episode. Clark lied, Oliver lied.... they all lie. Clark has this self righteous thing going that makes him look ridiculous.

[DaTraggernaut]

lol true

[Night_Hawk90]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

actually it was his fault if he would have used superhearing or x-ray he would have spotted parasit, but i understand why they did it i just am sick of it.

[AndiGirl]

Oh please, Oliver was the one that actually had some brass about him in this episode. Clark lied, Oliver lied.... they all lie. Clark has this self righteous thing going that makes him look ridiculous.

I'll take Clark lying over Ollie randomly pointing his arrow and shooting any day.
What was Bette even doing when Ollie put an arrow through her?

The guy is was too trigger happy.
I dont know how people think Clark was "wimpy" in this episode. He knew what he needed to do....didnt ask anyone for help (well, besides Ollie). He formed a plan completely on his own...and had no intention of backing out.

Not to mention he verbally put Ollie and Tess in their place.
I just dont think he will ever make everyone happy. Either he's "too wimpy"....or "too aggressive." No winning for our poor Clark. :\

He is being assertive, while sticking to his main guideline...."No killing." I was impressed.

[Tatiana]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

me too, I think he was awesome in this episode

[Dyanara]

He lost his powers again? Guess thats about the time to call lana up for a quick booty call

[6-Super-Man -5]

for a guy with a vast array of superpowers he always gets ambushed its makes his character look so dumb.

Reason he gets ambushed is simply, cause he doesn't want to harm the person, but the person harms Clark.

[DaTraggernaut]

lol wow

[O'Neill]

I'll take Clark lying over Ollie randomly pointing his arrow and shooting any day.
What was Bette even doing when Ollie put an arrow through her?

The guy is was too trigger happy.
I dont know how people think Clark was "wimpy" in this episode. He knew what he needed to do....didnt ask anyone for help (well, besides Ollie). He formed a plan completely on his own...and had no intention of backing out.

Not to mention he verbally put Ollie and Tess in their place.
I just dont think he will ever make everyone happy. Either he's "too wimpy"....or "too aggressive." No winning for our poor Clark. :\

He is being assertive, while sticking to his main guideline...."No killing." I was impressed.


I think Tess said it best in the barn about how Clark is going to have to make a choice about killing doomsday because sending them him to the PZ, (or the others to jail) means they will just slip through the cracks again (DD coming back from the PZ) and find their way back to try and kill Clark again.

Sounds impressive.

[mrw66855]

I thought Clark acted very much like Superman tonight. Yes, he had to line and he was a bit self-righteous, but Superman would always try to save somebody's life. And I am glad he finally told Oliver, what the personality and what a hero should do. Clark's right the moment Oliver killed he is no better than the people he fighting against them going to quote Batman begins on this one. "A vigilante is someone out for their own gratification. They can be ignored and destroyed." And that is what Oliver is becoming a vigilante. To continue to quote "what if you devote yourself to an ideal, to a symbol. You become something else entirely, legend." And that is what a true hero is he exists. Not only in flesh and bone, but in the in the hearts and minds of those they protect. And folks, that is was Superman really is. Clark is just Clark and uses Superman as a symbol to help us. We could all the Superman if we choose to be. Way to go tonight. Clark

[Night_Hawk90]

Reason he gets ambushed is simply, cause he doesn't want to harm the person, but the person harms Clark.

well in this instance it was because he didnt see the guy, if he used i dunno his powers than he could have "possibly" avoided it. I realize he didnt realize this guy could take his powers im just so sick of clark always getting surprised when he has fricking superpowers.

[dru-zod2501]

Oh please, Oliver was the one that actually had some brass about him in this episode. Clark lied, Oliver lied.... they all lie. Clark has this self righteous thing going that makes him look ridiculous.
no, it makes him look like Superman. There's an ocean of difference between Clark's deception and Oliver's lying. Oliver lied to save his own ass, Clark lied to get the perp to do the right thing

[myankskent]

The problem with Clark is that, yes, he is right in what he is saying. He should always try to save people rather than kill, but TPTB are writing this show in such a way where once Clark's plan fails, more blood will be on Clark's hands and TPTB will make it so that it's all Clark's fault. That's the problem with Clark on Smallville these days. He's being written to fail.

[dru-zod2501]

He lost his powers again? Guess thats about the time to call lana up for a quick booty call
:lol: absolutely

[O'Neill]

no, it makes him look like Superman. There's an ocean of difference between Clark's deception and Oliver's lying. Oliver lied to save his own ass, Clark lied to get the perp to do the right thing


Sorry, but a lie is a lie.

[AndiGirl]

I think Tess said it best in the barn about how Clark is going to have to make a choice about killing doomsday because sending them him to the PZ, (or the others to jail) means they will just slip through the cracks again (DD coming back from the PZ) and find their way back to try and kill Clark again.

Sounds impressive.

How would Tess know that though?
She's stepping in where she has no business...and making assumptions about what someone with far greater powers then her should do.

I think it's just incredibly easy for Tess and Ollie to tell Clark what to do, because they arent the ones in that position.

Clark will always...and I mean ALWAYS....explore every option before murder. I dont know why people ever expect it to be different. Thats what makes him Superman.

In this episode....he was very strong while doing it. Not whiny....whimpy....anything. Thats why I was personally impressed.

I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. :)

[ClarkyBoy14]

Oh please!
Yeah..cause it was totally his fault for getting his powers taken away. :rolleyes:
And how dare he not want to kill like everyone else on the show! PFFFT
You know what I'm tired of? Everyone bashing Clark.

*Applauds*

[AndiGirl]

Sorry, but a lie is a lie.

And Murder is Murder......

[mrw66855]

Sorry, but a lie is a lie.

So I take it you are against all superheroes, because they lie. Superheroes lie all the time. The differences <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Clark</st1:place> lied to help protect other people. Which is why superheroes lie in their dual identities or make fun of themselves is to protect the innocent people from reprisals. Not only in their lives, but in the world as well. But when somebody lies to protect themselves and saving themselves. Then they cross the line.

[Smallville6]

And Murder is Murder......
But you see Andi, they expect Clark to murder or else he's a wimp. But if he lies then ZOMG HE'S HORRIBLE!

:p

[mrw66855]

:rotfl:
But you see Andi, they expect Clark to murder or else he's a wimp. But if he lies then ZOMG HE'S HORRIBLE!

:p
:rotfl:I totally agree

[Smallville6]

actually it was his fault if he would have used superhearing or x-ray he would have spotted parasit, but i understand why they did it i just am sick of it.

Ohh I get it now. Yeah it's totally Clark's fault for not using every one of his powers every second of every day.
Gosh, what a wimp! tisk tisk.

[AndiGirl]

But you see Andi, they expect Clark to murder or else he's a wimp. But if he lies then ZOMG HE'S HORRIBLE!

:p

:rotfl: I wonder what would happen if he did both.....would the world implode? :eek:

[Smallville6]

:rotfl: I wonder what would happen if he did both.....would the world implode? :eek:

:lol: Well if the world's going to implode, might as well be Clark's fault because apparentley everything is- even things he can't control!

[SGuthrie27]

I LOVED this episode's portrayal of Clark. He had a plan, he stuck to it, and he tried everything he could to solve the Doomsday problem without killing. He stood up to both Oliver and Tess, tried to reason with the Injustice League villains, went to face them without powers knowing that Parasite had borrowed his, and stood up for Chloe even after everything that had happened between "Beast" and "Eternal" (even though it wasn't really Chloe). Well done, Clark!!! :D

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[O'Neill]

And Murder is Murder......

Apparently, ive stepped into a rather large hornets nest with my comments.

And when did I ever use the word murder?? Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

Theres a difference between killing to save, and just plain old murdering.

Clark hasnt realized that theres no hope for Davis. And that will probably get him killed. Trying to save your enemies isnt the best idea.

I have nothing against superman. Im a fan of the comic/series, but when Clark is dupped into ridiculous crap, and when his decisions are based on ridiculous hope, ill have to side with Oliver. Sometimes, "Shoot first, ask questions later" is the difference between life and death.

But thats ok though.... I wore my anti-hornet spray.

[Night_Hawk90]

Ohh I get it now. Yeah it's totally Clark's fault for not using every one of his powers every second of every day.
Gosh, what a wimp! tisk tisk.

never said he was weak so no need to misconstrue what i am saying, it makes clark look dumb because he has all these powers and yet people always manage to surprise him. I actually liked how they portrayed him in this episode so need to be condescending towards my posts, its just my opinion

[Brain WT]

Guys you are forgetting for what Jor-El said Doomsday can't be killed he said he can adapt to any attack so I think Clark will need Jor-El to help him in order to destory Doomsday

[greatodinsbeard]

Clark is the only real hero on this show especially this season. He acted like Superman throughout the episode. Ollie is completely off the deep end and Tess seems to be trying to get Clark killed or is being manipulated by one of Brainiacs failsafes.

Clark had a good plan to use black K and the phantom zone crystal it showed inititave and it could have worked. what he said about the right choice and the easy choice was pure Superman. Clark seems to be the only real good guy on this show the rest are way to close to being villains.

I hope Clark takes over leadership of the Justice League next season because Ollie is not setting a good example of being a hero.

[mrw66855]

Sorry, but a lie is a lie.

Technically Clark did not lie. He only said that black kryptonite could help them stop doomsday he never said how it was Oliver that assume it would be used to kill doomsday and when Clark said they had to kill Davis Bloom. They have been referring to Davis Bloom/doomsday interchangeably on the show so Clark could have meant doomsday but called him. Davis Bloom, but nobody really knows. So those are not really lies. There, just bending the truth, which is what Superman always does he tell the truth to some degree.

[latingirl]

I'll take Clark lying over Ollie randomly pointing his arrow and shooting any day.
What was Bette even doing when Ollie put an arrow through her?

The guy is was too trigger happy.
I dont know how people think Clark was "wimpy" in this episode. He knew what he needed to do....didnt ask anyone for help (well, besides Ollie). He formed a plan completely on his own...and had no intention of backing out.

Not to mention he verbally put Ollie and Tess in their place.
I just dont think he will ever make everyone happy. Either he's "too wimpy"....or "too aggressive." No winning for our poor Clark. :\

He is being assertive, while sticking to his main guideline...."No killing." I was impressed.

ITA we was so Superman in this episode, he puts clear the importance to be a REAL GOOD example for their follower about doing the right Things!!!!

For a moment when He said to Ollie "we need to destruct Davis" I was on total Shock because I thought he was down the Fake Chloe's influence.
I said NooO, again? clark lacks of personality, again???but after he confessed to Fake Chloe that he was lying to Ollie... Woow!!! I was very nice surprised by him ... Good BOY....

Nopw I have 2 things that are piss me of:

Tess' Kador saver???? what does happen to Kara????/

After a Week in SV time.. nobody said or made any reference about Lois????? Geez CHloe has 1 week missed (?)

How tess can destruict the Crystal????/

[Smallville6]

never said he was weak so no need to misconstrue what i am saying, it makes clark look dumb because he has all these powers and yet people always manage to surprise him. I actually liked how they portrayed him in this episode so need to be condescending towards my posts, its just my opinion

Sorry, didn't mean to sound condescending- the weak comment was pointed more towards the OP of this thread. But you did say it was his fault which was why I got frusterated.

[AndiGirl]

Apparently, ive stepped into a rather large hornets nest with my comments.

And when did I ever use the word murder?? Now you're just putting words in my mouth.

Theres a difference between killing to save, and just plain old murdering.

Clark hasnt realized that theres no hope for Davis. And that will probably get him killed. Trying to save your enemies isnt the best idea.

I have nothing against superman. Im a fan of the comic/series, but when Clark is dupped into ridiculous crap, and when his decisions are based on ridiculous hope, ill have to side with Oliver. Sometimes, "Shoot first, ask questions later" is the difference between life and death.

But thats ok though.... I wore my anti-hornet spray.


I'm sorry, I dont understand how there's a different between "killing to save" and murder, but not a difference between plain old lying.....and lying to save? :\

But I'm officially done.....I dont agree with you at all, and you dont agree with me at all. No sense in going round in circles. Nothing personal. :)

[O'Neill]

Technically Clark did not lie. He only said that black kryptonite could help them stop doomsday he never said how it was Oliver that assume it would be used to kill doomsday and when Clark said they had to kill Davis Bloom. They have been referring to Davis Bloom/doomsday interchangeably on the show so Clark could have meant doomsday but called him. Davis Bloom, but nobody really knows. So those are not really lies. There, just bending the truth, which is what Superman always does he tell the truth to some degree.

And yet, he told Oliver in the barn back in the episode where Oliver stole his mothers necklace that he doesnt agree with lying, stealing or killing... even if the means justifies the end. Yet he clearly wanted Oliver to do the stealing for him (black kryptonite).

Im just saying... a lie is a lie, stealing is stealing, and deception is deception. Both Clark and Oliver have pride issues. They will never be able to work together efficiently until both of them pull their heads out of their you know what.

[Niad]

well Clark = superman dies in the comic books doomsday kills him so there's your answer

[Dyanara]

Clark gave the smackdown to Oliver verbally. Im glad somebody finally put him in his place

[yomama]

I have to admit, I did have a bit of trouble with Clark lying to Oliver in order to get the black kryptonite. It just didn't seem very supermanly.

But I was thrilled with the fact that Clark wasn't saying, "Oh Chloe! Oh Lana! Whatever should I do...?" and had enough confidence in himself to take action (regardless of what I thought about the lying). The argument with Oliver at the end? Finally! Clark takes a stand and unequivocally states that if they kill, it makes them no different than the bad guys. Too me, this is pure Superman.

[AndiGirl]

I have to admit, I did have a bit of trouble with Clark lying to Oliver in order to get the black kryptonite. It just didn't seem very supermanly.

But I was thrilled with the fact that Clark wasn't saying, "Oh Chloe! Oh Lana! Whatever should I do...?" and had enough confidence in himself to take action (regardless of what I thought about the lying). The argument with Oliver at the end? Finally! Clark takes a stand and unequivocally states that if they kill, it makes them no different than the bad guys. Too me, this is pure Superman.

Dont forget about his conversation with Tess....
I still smile thinking about it! :lol:

[Smallville6]

Dont forget about his conversation with Tess....
I still smile thinking about it! :lol:

Our Clark was just all-around great in this episode :D

[Clois4eva89]

Look on the bright side at least this is the shortest ammount of time Clark's been powerless.

[AndiGirl]

Our Clark was just all-around great in this episode :D

Yes Ma'am! :D

[super_j_man]

Theres a difference between killing to save, and just plain old murdering.

If there's a difference, then how would you justify it. Clark has done bad things before (rob a bank, rob an ATM) all under the influence of red K. Now seeing as we can't rid the world of all its red K, chances are Clark will probably get infected again or something else might happen. Are we supposed to then kill Clark? Ollie was on drugs and hurt a lot of people, were we supposed to kill him then? Lana was a witch? Burn her at the stake? etc.

Davis has a problem, a beast inside him he can't control. Davis is good but he just has that bad side that comes when he gets angry. Black K can save Davis. The Phantom Zone can hold Doomsday (the only way he would get out is if Clark let him out). Why does there have to be killing? :confused:

[mr lane]

Lately Clark spends too much time explaining or lecturing instead of doing anything

i was proud of him in Beast until he let Chloe guilt slap him

he needs to man up and stop trying to please everyone

[yomama]

Too True, Andigirl! Gives me hope for all sorts of awesome in the finale!

[mr lane]

If there's a difference, then how would you justify it. Clark has done bad things before (rob a bank, rob an ATM) all under the influence of red K. Now seeing as we can't rid the world of all its red K, chances are Clark will probably get infected again or something else might happen. Are we supposed to then kill Clark? Ollie was on drugs and hurt a lot of people, were we supposed to kill him then? Lana was a witch? Burn her at the stake? etc.

Davis has a problem, a beast inside him he can't control. Davis is good but he just has that bad side that comes when he gets angry. Black K can save Davis. The Phantom Zone can hold Doomsday (the only way he would get out is if Clark let him out). Why does there have to be killing? :confused:

Doomsday is not human, clark had no problem in destroying Bizzaro, Bizzaro had feelings he loved Lana why couldn't clark send him somewhere else instead of destroying him? Because Bizzaro wasn't human and he was a threat

why cant Clark kill Doomsday in the same manner without it being looked at as Murder?

and as tess pointed out ppl escape from the phantom zone

[AndiGirl]

Too True, Andigirl! Gives me hope for all sorts of awesome in the finale!

I'm pretty excited, it's going to be a long week! :lol:

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Doomsday is not human, clark had no problem in destroying Bizzaro, Bizzaro had feelings he loved Lana why couldn't clark send him somewhere else instead of destroying him? Because Bizzaro wasn't human and he was a threat

why cant Clark kill Doomsday in the same manner without it being looked at as Murder?

and as tess pointed out ppl escape from the phantom zone

The only thing that bothered me about Tess....was the fact that she presumes alot. She's already planning for when Doomy escapes. Who is she to say he will or wont? Why is it so wrong for Clark to atleast try the more morally just route?

Her logic seems a bit reckless to me.
It's almost like saying anything dangerous should be destroyed, no questions asked. Then why do we even have prisons.....by her logic shouldnt we just kill rapists and murderers, just incase One day they get out? :confused:

[mr lane]

I'm pretty excited, it's going to be a long week! :lol:

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----



The only thing that bothered me about Tess....was the fact that she presumes alot. She's already planning for when Doomy escapes. Who is she to say he will or wont? Why is it so wrong for Clark to atleast try the more morally just route?

Her logic seems a bit reckless to me.
It's almost like saying anything dangerous should be destroyed, no questions asked. Then why do we even have prisons.....by her logic shouldnt we just kill rapists and murderers, just incase One day they get out? :confused:

I think Tess has reason to presume, I mean Faora was released from the phantom zone, 6 zoners were released in season 6 and even Clark and Kara have found their way out

wouldnt that be a red flag that maybe the Pzone won't do the trick?

People are trying to humanize Doomsday just because of Davis like I pointed out before why was it ok for Clark to destroy Bizzaro?

[Night_Hawk90]

Lately Clark spends too much time explaining or lecturing instead of doing anything

i was proud of him in Beast until he let Chloe guilt slap him

he needs to man up and stop trying to please everyone

really i think people on this show spend too much time lecturing clark on what he must do to achieve his greater destiny, seriously let him think for himself

[Dyanara]

This logic reminds me of the justification for the Iraq war. Iraq didnt do nothing to us but they once did a decade a go and they probably are going to again. So lets go to war with them.
Davis is just like Clark, so if you are going to try to justify taking out Davis because he isnt human then Clark needs to be taken out when he did, does, or will do bad things. You dont kill because of a potential threat, or I dont see killing because of a potential threat as justified. Doomsday in the comic books was a full out monster so killing him was ok, but in Smallville there is a man inside the monster and that makes it different.
Plus in a situation like this you dont skip right to kill kill kill, you try every other option until you are faced with the last resort. I think if the Black K plan worked, Davis should have gone to jail

[AndiGirl]

I think Tess has reason to presume, I mean Faora was released from the phantom zone, 6 zoners were released in season 6 and even Clark and Kara have found their way out

wouldnt that be a red flag that maybe the Pzone won't do the trick?

People are trying to humanize Doomsday just because of Davis like I pointed out before why was it ok for Clark to destroy Bizzaro?

But Tess doesnt know any of that....which is my point.
Just like Ollie....they shoot first, then....well....never ask questions, they just shoot. :lol:

[mr lane]

really i think people on this show spend too much time lecturing clark on what he must do to achieve his greater destiny, seriously let him think for himself

Clark needs to learn to think for himself instead of let everyone else lecture him

as ive told Andi before

he needs to back hand everyone and tell them to shut up or he'll just real the whole damn planet because he can!

:lol:

[Dyanara]

really i think people on this show spend too much time lecturing clark on what he must do to achieve his greater destiny, seriously let him think for himself

Gosh is this irritating anyone else? Everyone has some grand scheme for Clark and what he should do for his powers. Now there is a freakin prophecy! If I was him Id put on a mask and take over Bruce's batcave just to get away from these idiots

[AndiGirl]

Clark needs to learn to think for himself instead of let everyone else lecture him

as ive told Andi before

he needs to back hand everyone and tell them to shut up or he'll just real the whole damn planet because he can!

:lol:

I'm ok with that! :lol:

[mr lane]

But Tess doesnt know any of that....which is my point.
Just like Ollie....they shoot first, then....well....never ask questions, they just shoot. :lol:

but even Tess bringing up the subject would spark a red flag in clark's mind because he DOES know what Tess doesn't


and i still get no answer on the bizzaro question..

[AndiGirl]

Gosh is this irritating anyone else? Everyone has some grand scheme for Clark and what he should do for his powers. Now there is a freakin prophecy! If I was him Id put on a mask and take over Bruce's batcave just to get away from these idiots

I find it hysterical that all of the ppl giving him "advice"....really have NO clue what they are talking about. :rolleyes:

[wolverine316]

I thought Clark was awesome tonight. Superman is just around the corner. Everybody thinking he is a wimp for not going all terminator really needs to go with Ollie to see a shrink!!

[AndiGirl]

but even Tess bringing up the subject would spark a red flag in clark's mind because he DOES know what Tess doesn't


and i still get no answer on the bizzaro question..

I was intentionally ignoring the Bizzaro question. :p
I dont have an answer for that......

If I was to grasp at straws I would say Clark didnt technically do it.....it was MM. But thats a very loose grasp. :rotfl:

[O'Neill]

If there's a difference, then how would you justify it. Clark has done bad things before (rob a bank, rob an ATM) all under the influence of red K. Now seeing as we can't rid the world of all its red K, chances are Clark will probably get infected again or something else might happen. Are we supposed to then kill Clark? Ollie was on drugs and hurt a lot of people, were we supposed to kill him then? Lana was a witch? Burn her at the stake? etc.

Davis has a problem, a beast inside him he can't control. Davis is good but he just has that bad side that comes when he gets angry. Black K can save Davis. The Phantom Zone can hold Doomsday (the only way he would get out is if Clark let him out). Why does there have to be killing? :confused:

The problem with your statement is that there is hope for red krytonite infected Clark, hope for Ollie, and hope for Lana..... the issue here is that there is NO hope for Davis. He is Doomsday. A biological experiment created in a lab with one purpose. If there was any hope for him, then I wouldnt have a problem with Clark wanting to save him, but c'mon... lets be honest.... good in doomsday?? I think not.

Tess made a good point.... when the fate of a entire civiliazations hangs in the balance, someone needs to stand up, be a man, and take care of business.

[mr lane]

I was intentionally ignoring the Bizzaro question. :p
I dont have an answer for that......

If I was to grasp at straws I would say Clark didnt technically do it.....it was MM. But thats a very loose grasp. :rotfl:

yeah since MM didnt give Lana the blue krypto to put in Bizzaro's hand to make him explode..

[Dyanara]

There is no hope for Doomsday but Davis is not Doomsday, he is living with Doomsday inside of him and that is not his fault. All I am saying is you need to go through all the options before we call the executioner.

[AndiGirl]

The problem with your statement is that there is hope for red krytonite infected Clark, hope for Ollie, and hope for Lana..... the issue here is that there is NO hope for Davis. He is Doomsday. A biological experiment created in a lab with one purpose. If there was any hope for him, then I wouldnt have a problem with Clark wanting to save him, but c'mon... lets be honest.... good in doomsday?? I think not.

Tess made a good point.... when the fate of a entire civiliazations hangs in the balance, someone needs to stand up, be a man, and take care of business.

I think that right there may be where people are disagreeing. I think there is hope for Davis. If Clark can go up to Davis....put black K on his chest, and literally pull the "human aspect" out of Doomsday.....then that is hope. IMO.

[chlo-el]

Clark is soooooo morally strong. He sets a true example of what it means to be a hero! I love hoved him in this ep! Go Clark!:D

[mr lane]

There is no hope for Doomsday but Davis is not Doomsday, he is living with Doomsday inside of him and that is not his fault. All I am saying is you need to go through all the options before we call the executioner.

did we both watch the same episode entitled Eternal where a large mass that looked like scrambled egg came out of a ship otherwise known as Doomsday transformed into Davis which told me that they were the same person?

i dont remember seeing an episode where Davis was a separate human body that Doomsday overtook like a phantom overtakes a vessel

[Dyanara]

I think the difference between Bizarro and Davis/Doomsday is that Clark feels a kinship with Davis because they are both aliens sent here who look human but have this strange other side that they are equally afraid of. Yes Clark's other side is not Doomsday but remember a few seasons ago he was afraid he was sent here to destroy the earth as well. It is very easy to sympathize with Davis because it essentially is not his fault, will Clark have to kill both of them perhaps, but I do appluad him for trying to find other solutions

[mr lane]

I think that right there may be where people are disagreeing. I think there is hope for Davis. If Clark can go up to Davis....put black K on his chest, and literally pull the "human aspect" out of Doomsday.....then that is hope. IMO.

you mean theres hope to separate them so that Zod can use Davis as a vessel and Doomsday can run free with his dad now that the PZone is destroyed..

i like that option SO much better than just destroying Doomsday all together...

[Dyanara]

did we both watch the same episode entitled Eternal where a large mass that looked like scrambled egg came out of a ship otherwise known as Doomsday transformed into Davis which told me that they were the same person?

i dont remember seeing an episode where Davis was a separate human body that Doomsday overtook like a phantom overtakes a vessel

Davis has grown up on this planet and for 20+years he thought he was a human being. Then he realized the Doomsday aspect of himself, that to me tells me they may be the same body but they are not the same entity.

[O'Neill]

I think that right there may be where people are disagreeing. I think there is hope for Davis. If Clark can go up to Davis....put black K on his chest, and literally pull the "human aspect" out of Doomsday.....then that is hope. IMO.

Then I can only guess that they wont be holding to the original series/storyline/comic if thats the case. I am only making my assumptions according to how this played out in the comics. As far as I can remember, Clark did not save any type of human vessel that was incubating Doomsday.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I have to admit, I did not see a weak Clark in this episode. I saw a Clark who stands up for what he believes in. A true example. The best way to teach Earth how to be good is to practice what you preach and I saw that this episode. He is a boyscout.:o A hero who can make the impossible happen.

[mr lane]

I think the difference between Bizarro and Davis/Doomsday is that Clark feels a kinship with Davis because they are both aliens sent here who look human but have this strange other side that they are equally afraid of. Yes Clark's other side is not Doomsday but remember a few seasons ago he was afraid he was sent here to destroy the earth as well. It is very easy to sympathize with Davis because it essentially is not his fault, will Clark have to kill both of them perhaps, but I do appluad him for trying to find other solutions

Bizzaro was technically Clark's twin since he used his DNA you would think there would be kinship there especially after he realized Bizzaro did have feelings by loving Lana

and the phantom that was bizzaro was also from Krypton so in reality how does any of this make Bizzaro different than Doomsday?

[O'Neill]

you mean theres hope to separate them so that Zod can use Davis as a vessel and Doomsday can run free with his dad now that the PZone is destroyed..

i like that option SO much better than just destroying Doomsday all together...

That made me chuckle.... :lol:

[Dyanara]

Ive explained already why Davis is different from Bizarro. Whether you want to believe it or not Bizarro is nothing but a clone and Davis has been a living breathing, person/alien on this planet for 20+ years

[AndiGirl]

you mean theres hope to separate them so that Zod can use Davis as a vessel and Doomsday can run free with his dad now that the PZone is destroyed..

i like that option SO much better than just destroying Doomsday all together...

But once again....my dear Josh, how is Clark supposed to know that?!?
Clark has been told repeatedly that Doomy is immortal.

Pretend for a second that you havent read the comics...and you dont know whats going to happen.
Is it too much of a leap for Clark to use the plan he's devised?

[super_j_man]

Doomsday is not human, clark had no problem in destroying Bizzaro, Bizzaro had feelings he loved Lana why couldn't clark send him somewhere else instead of destroying him? Because Bizzaro wasn't human and he was a threat

why cant Clark kill Doomsday in the same manner without it being looked at as Murder?

and as tess pointed out ppl escape from the phantom zone

You're right. Bizarro isn't human, Doomsday isn't human, but Davis Bloome is. DB is not the killer, DD is. But the way I see it, Ollie wants to him to kill Davis. That's where I think Ollie's wrong. If DD was DD without DB then I guess would be okay with Clark killing him, because DD is pure monster (no humanity what-so-ever). But maybe Clark is smart enough to know that he won't be able to kill DD without making the ultimate sacrifice (from the comics) so why not trap him in the PZ.

What does Tess know anyway?? First she makes the big conitnuity error statement that Davis is Sageeth, and now she says that it is possible to escape from the PZ. She makes all these statements without really knowing the full picture (and now we see the she's under some external control). The only times ppl escaped from the PZ was when Clark was in there and he was trying to get out. So here's the solution, DON'T GET TRAPPED IN THERE AGAIN!! The only way to escape the PZ is if you have access to the blood of the house of El.

[mr lane]

But once again....my dear Josh, how is Clark supposed to know that?!?

hasnt Jor-El already told him that by not doing what needs to be done worse things come to pass?

Clark likes to learn the hard way and then blame himself for everything

"im sorry its all my fault if only i would have done something different!"

[Dyanara]

Super J Mann Im a little confused, was it Doomsday who committed all those murders or was it Davis trying to keep Doomsday inside? I really am honestly a little confused about that.

[O'Neill]

I have a feeling that if Clark would have finished his Kryptonian training in the fortress like he was suppose to, then he wouldnt be getting into some of the situations hes been in lately.

[mr lane]

You're right. Bizarro isn't human, Doomsday isn't human, but Davis Bloome is. DB is not the killer, DD is. But the way I see it, Ollie wants to him to kill Davis. That's where I think Ollie's wrong. If DD was DD without DB then I guess would be okay with Clark killing him, because DD is pure monster (no humanity what-so-ever). But maybe Clark is smart enough to know that he won't be able to kill DD without making the ultimate sacrifice (from the comics) so why not trap him in the PZ.

What does Tess know anyway?? First she makes the big conitnuity error statement that Davis is Sageeth, and now she says that it is possible to escape from the PZ. She makes all these statements without really knowing the full picture (and now we see the she's under some external control). The only times ppl escaped from the PZ was when Clark was in there and he was trying to get out. So here's the solution, DON'T GET TRAPPED IN THERE AGAIN!! The only way to escape the PZ is if you have access to the blood of the house of El.

well there were those two kryptonians who escaped in season 4/season 5 when Clark didn't do what Jor-El told him to do and the meteor shower came...

[bigvillir001]

mrw66855 (http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/member.php?u=42334)
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p> </o:p>
thought <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place>Clark</st1:place> acted very much like Superman tonight. Yes, he had to line and he was a bit self-righteous, but Superman would always try to save somebody's life. And I am glad he finally told Oliver, what the personality and what a hero should do. <st1:place>Clark</st1:place>'s right the moment Oliver killed he is no better than the people he fighting against them going to quote Batman begins on this one. "A vigilante is someone out for their own gratification. They can be ignored and destroyed." And that is what Oliver is becoming a vigilante. To continue to quote "what if you devote yourself to an ideal, to a symbol. You become something else entirely, legend." And that is what a true hero is he exists. Not only in flesh and bone, but in the in the hearts and minds of those they protect. And folks, that is was Superman really is. <st1:place>Clark</st1:place> is just <st1:place>Clark</st1:place> and uses Superman as a symbol to help us. We could all the Superman if we choose to be. Way to go tonight. <st1:place>Clark</st1:place> <o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
I totally agree with you clark tonight show that he is taking on more leadership role and what he told oliver is true we don’t cross lines that make us like them we are better than that and when oliver told him hes not the bad guy Clark look at him and says who are you I think ckark see oliver loosing what he once stood for oliver is a hero but I thmk he’s let fear and and anger about doomsday clould his mined and clark can see that oh love qutes from the batman begins

[mr lane]

Super J Mann Im a little confused, was it Doomsday who committed all those murders or was it Davis trying to keep Doomsday inside? I really am honestly a little confused about that.

So its ok for Davis to kill MANY to keep Doomsday inside but not Clark for the safety of humanity?

[AndiGirl]

hasnt Jor-El already told him that by not doing what needs to be done worse things come to pass?

Clark likes to learn the hard way and then blame himself for everything

"im sorry its all my fault if only i would have done something different!"

Well...speaking as someone who falls on her face repeatedly.....it makes you grow.
And Clark doesnt have the typical things to worry about....his decisions affect the world.

My point is how does clark know what NEEDS to be done? He can only go by his instincts...and those have always told him to save people. Even Davis Bloome.

At this point, he has no way to actually kill Doomy. Besides beating the crap out of him. I personally think making an intelligent, thought out plan (though I will admitt I know its flawed because we know whats going to happen) is better then just walking up to Davis/Doom and pounding on him to see what happens.

[samanthalyn720]

How would Tess know that though?
She's stepping in where she has no business...and making assumptions about what someone with far greater powers then her should do.

I think it's just incredibly easy for Tess and Ollie to tell Clark what to do, because they arent the ones in that position.

Clark will always...and I mean ALWAYS....explore every option before murder. I dont know why people ever expect it to be different. Thats what makes him Superman.

In this episode....he was very strong while doing it. Not whiny....whimpy....anything. Thats why I was personally impressed.

I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. :)

So true, it's always easy for everyone else to tell Clark how to use his powers and then get mad when he doesn't do what they want. I don't see how anyone can say that killing Davis/Dooms is the only option when it's been shown that he cannot die. How do they expect Clark to kill him exactly? Separating Davis from Doomsday and sending DD to the PZ is the best option, b/c it allows him to save Davis and get rid of Doomsday... a win win in my opinion.

[Dyanara]

This reminds me so much of Joker vs Batman, Joker is a psychopathic, muderous monster who is even less human than Doomsday but Batman won't kill him because he knows he is not God.(BTW I am going by The Dark Knight not the comics)

[mr lane]

Well...speaking as someone who falls on her face repeatedly.....it makes you grow.
And Clark doesnt have the typical things to worry about....his decisions affect the world.

My point is how does clark know what NEEDS to be done? He can only go by his instincts...and those have always told him to save people. Even Davis Bloome.

At this point, he has no way to actually kill Doomy. Besides beating the crap out of him. I personally think making an intelligent, thought out plan (though I will admitt I know its flawed because we know whats going to happen) is better then just walking up to Davis/Doom and pounding on him to see what happens.

it should make you grow but i dont see clark growing

you man up and say "i was wrong"

not "its all my fault that all these bad things happen"

bad things wouldnt happen if you would learn from your previous mistakes..

[Dyanara]

So its ok for Davis to kill MANY to keep Doomsday inside but not Clark for the safety of humanity?

Is that for you to decide? Is that for Clark or Oliver to decide? Or is that for a judge and jury to decide his fate? If Davis is split from Doomsday I have said many times that he should go to jail or possibly be executed for his crimes. So stop trying to make me into some butt kissing Davis fan who thinks he can do no wrong.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I think ckark see oliver loosing what he once stood for oliver is a hero but I thmk he’s let fear and and anger about doomsday clould his mined and clark can see that oh love qutes from the batman begins[/FONT][/COLOR]


Reminds me of Star Wars "Fear and anger of are the darkside they are Anakin"

[AndiGirl]

it should make you grow but i dont see clark growing

you man up and say "i was wrong"

not "its all my fault that all these bad things happen"

bad things wouldnt happen if you would learn from your previous mistakes..

ITA....
For once I'd like to see Clark make a mistake, then not beat himself up over it.
His "friends" like Ollie dont really help the situation though.

"You should have killed the beast when you had the chance."
Very encouraging....

Right now, if I was in Clarks shoes....I dont think this option would be a mistake. He will learn later that it is, but out of all the other options listed for him ("Kick his @$$ Clark!")
I think this one is the most thought out and "Superman-esque" one.

[Raina]

In the past Clark has come off less than stellar, but to me in this season and especially in the episode, he comes off as the hero and Oliver as the wannabe. He stayed very strong in the face of a lot of opposition and stood up for his moral code. Very Superman.

As for Clark getting his powers taken away, I mean how else are the writers suppose to deal with the fact that he can easily handle almost any foe? No obstacles, no drama, no show.

[mr lane]

Is that for you to decide? Is that for Clark or Oliver to decide? Or is that for a judge and jury to decide his fate? If Davis is split from Doomsday I have said many times that he should go to jail or possibly be executed for his crimes. So stop trying to make me into some butt kissing Davis fan who thinks he can do no wrong.


im not making you or saying you are anything

I just dont think Clark should feel guilty about destroying something that could destroy humanity

but were both texans so i see now why the tension is created :lol:

[samanthalyn720]

So its ok for Davis to kill MANY to keep Doomsday inside but not Clark for the safety of humanity?

I don't think anyone believes it's okay for Davis to murder people. The difference in those two situations you're talking about is that killing was the only way Davis knew to stop Doomsday from emerging. When he found other options, such as killing himself and keeping Chloe with him, he took them. And Clark on the other hand, believes there is another way to stop Doomsday other than killing Davis.

[super_j_man]

The problem with your statement is that there is hope for red krytonite infected Clark, hope for Ollie, and hope for Lana..... the issue here is that there is NO hope for Davis. He is Doomsday. A biological experiment created in a lab with one purpose. If there was any hope for him, then I wouldnt have a problem with Clark wanting to save him, but c'mon... lets be honest.... good in doomsday?? I think not.

Tess made a good point.... when the fate of a entire civiliazations hangs in the balance, someone needs to stand up, be a man, and take care of business.

I never said there was good in Doomsday but there is good in DAVIS. There IS hope for Davis. That's why Clark is willing to use Black K on him. And I'll say this too, if DD is separated into DB and DD, then maybe I can see Clark killing DD (because DD has no humanity what so ever).

The point is Ollie is on his "kill-kill-kill" spill on not just DD but it seems like anyone who is a villain. He even lectured Clark on not killing Bette and all the other meteor freaks. Ollie himself almost killed Leech before Clark stopped him. Now by what you said, Clark, Lana, and Ollie didn't deserve to die because the had HOPE. Well doesn't everybody who does wrong have hope? Isn't there chance for everybody (human) to change? And if not, again, how do you justify? Who is Ollie to decide who lives and who dies?

The way I see it, Clark had a really good plan, Ollie's a jerk, and Tess.............well we don't really know for sure what's up with her anyway. Now we know that everything she has said is because someone was controlling or influencing her.

[Dyanara]

Funny thing is I am from Texas and I am for the death penalty. Im not saying that if push comes to shove Clark shouldnt kill Doomsday, I mean if he is going all Jean Grey/Phoenix on humanity then killing him is justified. I just see why he is going through all his options first.

[mr lane]

Funny thing is I am from Texas and I am for the death penalty. Im not saying that if push comes to shove Clark shouldnt kill Doomsday, I mean if he is going all Jean Grey/Phoenix on humanity then killing him is justified. I just see why he is going through all his options first.

it just seems to me Clark is wasting too much time trying to go through all his options

i think maybe the writers should have had Clark stop Chloe leaving with Davis and keep Davis contained so they could find other options if thats what Clark really wants to do that way it helps minimize Davis/Doomsday killing others and Chloe for that matter

[Dyanara]

Yeah I thought that as well last week also. Clark*CHloe together should have contained Doomsday for as long as they could to try and save Davis but get rid of doomsday. But if all else failed then there would have to be a showdown.

[SnowBird]

I thought Clark was amazing. He was strong minded and stuck to his convictions even though everyone was against him. He was figuring out things for himself like a good investigative reporter which I'm glad to see.

[mr lane]

Yeah I thought that as well last week also. Clark*CHloe together should have contained Doomsday for as long as they could to try and save Davis but get rid of doomsday. But if all else failed then there would have to be a showdown.

i can agree with that

i didnt like how Clark told chloe he would always look for her

he shouldnt have let her leave in the first place then! lol

Clark just seems so up and down to me lately

[Supes_24]

He lost his powers again? Guess thats about the time to call lana up for a quick booty call


The Real Reason he didn't want GA to kill him..:rotfl:

[O'Neill]

I never said there was good in Doomsday but there is good in DAVIS. There IS hope for Davis. That's why Clark is willing to use Black K on him. And I'll say this too, if DD is separated into DB and DD, then maybe I can see Clark killing DD (because DD has no humanity what so ever).

The point is Ollie is on his "kill-kill-kill" spill on not just DD but it seems like anyone who is a villain. He even lectured Clark on not killing Bette and all the other meteor freaks. Ollie himself almost killed Leech before Clark stopped him. Now by what you said, Clark, Lana, and Ollie didn't deserve to die because the had HOPE. Well doesn't everybody who does wrong have hope? Isn't there chance for everybody (human) to change? And if not, again, how do you justify? Who is Ollie to decide who lives and who dies?

The way I see it, Clark had a really good plan, Ollie's a jerk, and Tess.............well we don't really know for sure what's up with her anyway. Now we know that everything she has said is because someone was controlling or influencing her.

My whole argument is based on my opinion that there is no good in Davis. Last time I checked, Davis was not born of a mother like Clark, or any other meteor freak. He oozed out of a rock. He is not human. He is a genetic experiment. According to Doomsdays mother (who inhabited Lois) the human form is only a stage in his metamorphosis.

[samanthalyn720]

My whole argument is based on my opinion that there is no good in Davis. Last time I checked, Davis was not born of a mother like Clark, or any other meteor freak. He oozed out of a rock. He is not human. He is a genetic experiment. According to Doomsdays mother (who inhabited Lois) the human form is only a stage in his metamorphosis.


It's like Dr. Swann said to Clark before, "Humanity is not only about biology". I think this is definitely the case for Davis. Just b/c he's not a human doesn't mean there is no humanity or good in him.

[Supes_24]

My whole argument is based on my opinion that there is no good in Davis. Last time I checked, Davis was not born of a mother like Clark, or any other meteor freak. He oozed out of a rock. He is not human. He is a genetic experiment. According to Doomsdays mother (who inhabited Lois) the human form is only a stage in his metamorphosis.

Yeah I just saw it(Davis) as an elaborate Cocoon while DD reaches its full power

And if the writers want to go all Bruce Banner on DD and have someone for Clark to save, then they should've made Clark come up with his Black K plan faster. Too often SV Clark looks slow in deductive reasoning.

In Injustice they tried to make it seem like Chloe's judgment in not sending DD to PZ was the right one.....which I wholeheartedly disagree with, with what info we were given in Beast

[melissan02]

I thought Clark was amazing. He was strong minded and stuck to his convictions even though everyone was against him. He was figuring out things for himself like a good investigative reporter which I'm glad to see.

I agree w/ that to a certain extent, Snowbird, but the thing that bothers me about Clark (and that makes him seem somewhat weak) is you can tell he has doubts and is hesitant to act. I also don't like that it seems as though when it comes to Lana and/or Chloe, Clark sees grey and almost excuses everything they do. Yet when it comes to Lois and/or Oliver, he's all too quick to jump on their imperfections.:mad:
Just bothersome. But I do agree that Clark was supermanly tonight sticking to his convictions!

[MrZeppo]

How would Tess know that though?
She's stepping in where she has no business...and making assumptions about what someone with far greater powers then her should do.

I think it's just incredibly easy for Tess and Ollie to tell Clark what to do, because they arent the ones in that position.

Clark will always...and I mean ALWAYS....explore every option before murder. I dont know why people ever expect it to be different. Thats what makes him Superman.

In this episode....he was very strong while doing it. Not whiny....whimpy....anything. Thats why I was personally impressed.

I will just agree to disagree with you on this one. :)


Andigirl thank you so much for truly being a voice of reason on the boards. I've been reading all these "Clark sucks" comments and I have been getting irritated. In my own opinion I find it quite sad that so many seem to be on this "Kill, Kill, Kill" kick. It's disconcerting for me. Should people be so quick to be judge, jury, and executioner? Should the JLA? Should we? Yes an unstoppable monster like Doomsday does deserve to die, I agree. But does Davis, because he was forced down this road, even when he began killing. It wasn't because he wanted to, it was because he had to.

We've watched Clark grow up for years. His father and mother always taught him responsibility and moral values. That there is always another way. In essence that is who Superman is. Someone with the power to easily kill, but not doing it unless given no other choice. He's faltered a lot, made a lot of mistakes, but when he choses to do the right thing now why are people being so hard on him? Why do people find it so surprising that Clark doesn't want to jump straight to killing?

Because I am honestly glad he's trying to find another way. I like that he had a plan that Tess just ruined. It's better than just flying by the seat of his pants. I wasn't intiallly a fan of the PZ idea because sending a deadly weapon to a land of deadly weapons was wierd to me, damning Davis who has been forced into this was also bad, but I have come to accept it really was the lesser of two evils. And really Zoners have only escaped when Clark or Kara were trying to leave. So it is pretty secure in design. But I really loved his plan to save Davis. He remembered Black K (oh canon I love you so!) and put together a pretty smart plan to split Davis and Doomsday into two different people. I really liked that. It's intruiging that Clark would come up with such a pro-active plan... One to save Davis and get rid of Doomsday. It seems rather Supermanly to me.

My problem with Ollie is that he is jumping so quickly on this killing Davis bandwagon. He wasn't even open to the idea of splitting Davis and Doomy into two people which was a rather reasonable plan. It's smarter too because they know Doomsday cannot really die. Clark knows Doomsday is immortal. How stupid is Ollie's rationale here? He keeps telling Clark to kill the unkillable. It's such a flawed idea.

And is that really the best way to do things? What makes Ollie different from Plastique then? Davis killed people... Tess killed people... Does this make Bette right in her desire to kill Tess?

Ollie's holier than thou attitude annoys me. He claims that he killed Lex to protect Clark. What a lie! Let's be for real here. Earlier this season he let his grief overwhelm him and he acted like a playboy drunk. He sobered up but started focusing on killing Lex after he found out Lionel killed his parents. He was so deadset on revenge he was reckless, finally killing Lex and getting revenge. That had everything to do with Ollie and nothing to do with Clark. I think it's rather odd Ollie is so judgemental of Clark's refusal to kill Lex when at the moment the truck blew up Clark was there to kill Lex. It's a flimsy justification that sounds sad as Ollie clings dearly to it, like a lifepreserver.

This is my theory. I think Ollie does feel guilty. I think it is eating him up inside. Because when he became GA he wasn't this dark person, quick to kill. He was better than that. It's almost like Ollie is pushing Clark to murder Davis because then maybe he'll feel less guilty. If Clark killed too then he would be justified in what he did. I think his anger at Clark's refusal to kill someone is actually more deeply rooted in his own anger in betraying his own ethical ideals.

Tess' reasons are obviously different. I don't want to speculate just yet on the purple orb. But I suspect she thinks killing Doomsday is part of Clark's destiny. The way she makes it sound, she seems to consider it to be like a stepping stone in Clark's journey. I truly believe she is almost worshipping in the "Church of the Traveler". She thinks he's going to be this savior that will save the world and to do that he needs to face his greatest challenge, which is Doomsday. The problem is that Tess is very willing to sacrifice other people to make sure Clark can meet this destiny. She sits there and justifies it, saying it's for the greater good, but she is playing god. And I suspect this will not turn out well for her.

[SGuthrie27]

I thought that Clark was the exact OPPOSITE of weak in this episode. He genuinely cared about others in this episode. He tried to convince Bette & Co. of the error of their ways, and then confronted them WHILE POWERLESS. He came up with a sneaky and very smart way of tricking Oliver into helping him in his WELL THOUGHT-OUT and AWESOME plan to save Davis while ridding the world of Doomsday, and he stood up to Ollie, Tess, and Faux-Chloe. I'm glad that he's still championing his "no-killing" super-hero policy. Way to be, Clark!!!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[super_j_man]

My whole argument is based on my opinion that there is no good in Davis. Last time I checked, Davis was not born of a mother like Clark, or any other meteor freak. He oozed out of a rock. He is not human. He is a genetic experiment. According to Doomsdays mother (who inhabited Lois) the human form is only a stage in his metamorphosis.

It could be that Faora said that in part to manipulate him. And even though he is an experiement, he has adopted a human side to him. Even if the human side is only a stage, having Chloe around seems to bring that side around and calm the beast. Even though Davis may only be a form a DD, that form exists nonetheless. Otherwise how could DB have guilt over his actions and be human at all. If DD is really the ultimate destroyer then how can he fall in love with Chloe, how can he feel that guilt, and how can he even have feelings? The black K could be the thing that saves Davis (whether he's real or not) instead of killing him.

Now, I should mention that I really dislike what the writers have done with the whole DB/DD story line anyway. IMO DD should not even have a human side, it should not even be possible. But the fact is he does have that side. Which means the writers have chosen to give him some humanity.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that if DD was truly the mythos version (no humanity at all) then DB shouldn't exist.

Now going back to the thread's topic and what you and others have said about Clark being weak, I just trying to make the point that he had a very reasonable solution. And just because he's not willing to kill doesn't make him weak. Is Batman weak because he doesn't kill? Whatch Batman Begins and the Dark Knight. Batman doesn't kill because it's what seperates him from the other villains. Now Superman is the same way. In fact the only time Clark kills is when there is no sign of humanity (Bizarro, Brainiac, Doomsday).

I think our main disagreement is on whether or not Davis truly has any hope. But even if you think he doesn't, obviously Clark does. That's why Clark won't kill him. He truly thinks that Davis can be saved.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


I agree w/ that to a certain extent, Snowbird, but the thing that bothers me about Clark (and that makes him seem somewhat weak) is you can tell he has doubts and is hesitant to act. I also don't like that it seems as though when it comes to Lana and/or Chloe, Clark sees grey and almost excuses everything they do. Yet when it comes to Lois and/or Oliver, he's all too quick to jump on their imperfections.:mad:
Just bothersome. But I do agree that Clark was supermanly tonight sticking to his convictions!

What do you mean Clark excuses Lana and Chloe for everything they do? I didn't get that impression at all. He was hard on both of those girls when he needed to be. And how has he been hard on Lois? :confused: Clark's problem is that up till now, he has been listening to others too much and not making his own decision. But he did just that tonight. Manned up and stood his own against Ollie and Tess.

[neoblackdragon]

Seeing as how we have aliens on this show. I dont think biology matters so much in the souls of people. Clark was not aware of parasites powers. How was he supposed to know that this guy could steal them? Also Clark cant be paranoid 24/7. Do you want him to x-ray every building in the radius and listen in on every single conversation?

[AndiGirl]

Andigirl thank you so much for truly being a voice of reason on the boards. I've been reading all these "Clark sucks" comments and I have been getting irritated. In my own opinion I find it quite sad that so many seem to be on this "Kill, Kill, Kill" kick. It's disconcerting for me. Should people be so quick to be judge, jury, and executioner? Should the JLA? Should we? Yes an unstoppable monster like Doomsday does deserve to die, I agree. But does Davis, because he was forced down this road, even when he began killing. It wasn't because he wanted to, it was because he had to.

We've watched Clark grow up for years. His father and mother always taught him responsibility and moral values. That there is always another way. In essence that is who Superman is. Someone with the power to easily kill, but not doing it unless given no other choice. He's faltered a lot, made a lot of mistakes, but when he choses to do the right thing now why are people being so hard on him? Why do people find it so surprising that Clark doesn't want to jump straight to killing?

Because I am honestly glad he's trying to find another way. I like that he had a plan that Tess just ruined. It's better than just flying by the seat of his pants. I wasn't intiallly a fan of the PZ idea because sending a deadly weapon to a land of deadly weapons was wierd to me, damning Davis who has been forced into this was also bad, but I have come to accept it really was the lesser of two evils. And really Zoners have only escaped when Clark or Kara were trying to leave. So it is pretty secure in design. But I really loved his plan to save Davis. He remembered Black K (oh canon I love you so!) and put together a pretty smart plan to split Davis and Doomsday into two different people. I really liked that. It's intruiging that Clark would come up with such a pro-active plan... One to save Davis and get rid of Doomsday. It seems rather Supermanly to me.

My problem with Ollie is that he is jumping so quickly on this killing Davis bandwagon. He wasn't even open to the idea of splitting Davis and Doomy into two people which was a rather reasonable plan. It's smarter too because they know Doomsday cannot really die. Clark knows Doomsday is immortal. How stupid is Ollie's rationale here? He keeps telling Clark to kill the unkillable. It's such a flawed idea.

And is that really the best way to do things? What makes Ollie different from Plastique then? Davis killed people... Tess killed people... Does this make Bette right in her desire to kill Tess?

Ollie's holier than thou attitude annoys me. He claims that he killed Lex to protect Clark. What a lie! Let's be for real here. Earlier this season he let his grief overwhelm him and he acted like a playboy drunk. He sobered up but started focusing on killing Lex after he found out Lionel killed his parents. He was so deadset on revenge he was reckless, finally killing Lex and getting revenge. That had everything to do with Ollie and nothing to do with Clark. I think it's rather odd Ollie is so judgemental of Clark's refusal to kill Lex when at the moment the truck blew up Clark was there to kill Lex. It's a flimsy justification that sounds sad as Ollie clings dearly to it, like a lifepreserver.

This is my theory. I think Ollie does feel guilty. I think it is eating him up inside. Because when he became GA he wasn't this dark person, quick to kill. He was better than that. It's almost like Ollie is pushing Clark to murder Davis because then maybe he'll feel less guilty. If Clark killed too then he would be justified in what he did. I think his anger at Clark's refusal to kill someone is actually more deeply rooted in his own anger in betraying his own ethical ideals.

Tess' reasons are obviously different. I don't want to speculate just yet on the purple orb. But I suspect she thinks killing Doomsday is part of Clark's destiny. The way she makes it sound, she seems to consider it to be like a stepping stone in Clark's journey. I truly believe she is almost worshipping in the "Church of the Traveler". She thinks he's going to be this savior that will save the world and to do that he needs to face his greatest challenge, which is Doomsday. The problem is that Tess is very willing to sacrifice other people to make sure Clark can meet this destiny. She sits there and justifies it, saying it's for the greater good, but she is playing god. And I suspect this will not turn out well for her.

No Problem Jai :)
And I completely agree with everything you said! There's a fine line between "doing whats best for the world" and simply "becoming one of the bad guys." Tess and Ollie are walking that line, while Clark looks for options instead of taking a life when it could potentially be avoided.

I'm not sure yet, but Tess may officially be into full "bad guy" territory. Who puts micro chips in kids brains, then fries them once they arent of any use anymore? :\

[the highlander]

I want clark to NOT loose his powers anymore... it's just plain dumb.

His power's should be solely because of his physiology not because some magical trick. They shouldn't be able to steal clarks power. Not in any way.

Writers... stop doing that. We do not need green K to make things for clark interesting... The way the plot developed today was awesome and kept clark on his towes. I think that more creative writing for clark to USE his powers to solve the issues at hand is best than loosing his powers, weakening him or what other nonsense...

This show is becoming like heroes and Peter.

[SVFancross]

I loved Clark in this episode. His greatest strength is his morals.

[ginevrakent]

I loved Clark in this episode. His greatest strength is his morals.

I agree. Clark's greatest strength comes from the morals his parents gave him. Jor-el was right when he told Martha that he couldn't have asked for a brighter light to guide his son. It is even better when those around Clark have faith in him. Like Martha and Jonathan in Calling and Commencement:

Calling



Clark: What if he was right? What if I am some sort of threat to mankind?
Martha: I'll never believe that. And neither should you.
Clark: Then what does it mean? The day is coming when I'll begin my quest to rule?
Jonathan: We don't know, son. But when and if that day does come, your mother and I both know that you will do the right thing.

Commencement


Jonathan: Do I have to remind you, Clark, that the last time we had a meteor shower, it was full of kryptonite?
Martha: If the same happens today it could kill you. You have to come with us.
Clark: I spoke to Jor-El. He told me I have to find the other two stones right now, and unite them with the one in the cave.
Martha: No! You're my son. You're not gonna go on some kind of suicide mission.
Jonathan: Clark, you might be stronger than steel, but you're not invincible.
Clark: I know, Dad. But I'm the only one who can do this.
Jonathan: All right. But I want you to listen to me right now. All the years that your mother and I spent raising you from that wide-eyed toddler running around on this farm to the man who is standing in front of me right now was for this moment. You do this, son. You make us proud.
Martha: Those meteors can kill him, Jonathan.
Jonathan: I know that, sweetheart. But if we have faith in our son, then we can't let that faith waver now.

I wish other people in Clark's life had this kind of faith in him. I still think Chloe's biggest mistake was not telling Clark about Davis as soon as she knew he survived the kryptonite shower. Perhaps if she had worked with Clark, Oliver, Dr. Hamilton, and Davis earlier some of what is taking place could have been avoided. Maybe they could have figured out the black kryptonite solution sooner so that Chloe wouldn't have had to go on the run. The JLA could have worked together and their loyalty to each other would not have been tested.

The same thing could be said about Sebastian, Jimmy, and the other people injured at the Chimmy wedding. Perhaps Sebastian would still be alive and these people would have remain unhurt had Chloe not hidden the deteriorating extent of her Brainiac infection.

So Clark's greatest strength is his morals, which is why it is important for people to trust in him.

[wolverine316]

I want clark to NOT loose his powers anymore... it's just plain dumb.

His power's should be solely because of his physiology not because some magical trick. They shouldn't be able to steal clarks power. Not in any way.

Writers... stop doing that. We do not need green K to make things for clark interesting... The way the plot developed today was awesome and kept clark on his towes. I think that more creative writing for clark to USE his powers to solve the issues at hand is best than loosing his powers, weakening him or what other nonsense...

This show is becoming like heroes and Peter.

Um... If Superman can lose his powers in the comics and in the cartoons then Clark can lose it in Smallville.

[Archeus]

I am too sick of Clark having his powers removed or stolen. In the show, hes powers are like a single entity. Thats just wrong! He gets hes powers from his physiology, his blood. The powers seems to bee some kind of an simple enchantment. Just a simple silly magical spell could "remove" his powers, like Lana did while beeing influenced by that witch.

He gets his powers because he is a Kryptonian under the effect of the yellow sun.

[magic]

man I'm so sick of Clark
if the black K doesn't bring out Kal-El I'm out for season 9

[prodigykane]

This is very controversial. I love it

[AndiGirl]

This is very controversial. I love it

:lol:

[Timester]

Lets all step back for a while.

Smallville is a show about a young Clark Kent. Clark Kent's morals are the base of Superman icon. Superman is ALWAYS about the third way, he simply doesn't kill.

Now, with this in mind, stop bashing Clark for something that he NEVER will be or do. If you think that Clark should kill, honestly, wrong show and wrong hero. There are plenty of heroes that kill out there, just leave the one that doesn't alone.

[magic]

Clark is totally mentally ill, it's called personality disorder

personality disorder: A class of mental disorders characterized by rigid and on-going patterns of thought and action. Rigid and on-going patterns of feeling, thinking, and behavior are said to be caused by underlying belief systems and these systems are referred to as fixed fantasies or "dysfunctional schemata" (Wikipedia)

it's a mix of borderline personality disorder (extreme "black and white" thinking, instability in relationships, self-image, identity and behavior)
and Obsessive-compulsive personality disorder (not the same as obsessive-compulsive disorder ): characterized by rigid conformity to rules, moral codes, and excessive orderliness

sounds familiar? :)
Clark's a textbook case

[baltazor]

Lets all step back for a while.

Smallville is a show about a young Clark Kent. Clark Kent's morals are the base of Superman icon. Superman is ALWAYS about the third way, he simply doesn't kill.

Now, with this in mind, stop bashing Clark for something that he NEVER will be or do. If you think that Clark should kill, honestly, wrong show and wrong hero. There are plenty of heroes that kill out there, just leave the one that doesn't alone.

You are so right but then again it will be nice to see Clark being "super" some times. And with that i mean it shouldn't be so easy to overpower him. I get it, it makes boring stories when a hero is so invincible but they should point out some times that there is nobody else as strong. Lately i am bothered by the abundance of kryptonite, or whatever else they can figure out that hurts him. They make it seem SO easy to take him down which just isn't true.

[Joe90]

The problem with Clark is that, yes, he is right in what he is saying. He should always try to save people rather than kill, but TPTB are writing this show in such a way where once Clark's plan fails, more blood will be on Clark's hands and TPTB will make it so that it's all Clark's fault. That's the problem with Clark on Smallville these days. He's being written to fail.
WTF!!!!NooooWay, they cant do that dude,they make this Hero into a Frickinn NOOB...
Jesus if thats True we are DOOMED.