Do you think that Clark would have done the same with Lana?

[Anu]

I just don't think that Clark would have done the same thing, that he was going to do to Davis, putting him in a prison for life. I don't think that he would have done that if it was Lana, if Lana was the beast or even Chloe. He only do that kind of things to people he doesn't love or really care about! And for that reason I see him as selfish.

[Davis Bloome]

I agree with you, if it was any of his friends, he probably would have placed a lot more effort in it to get the beast out of them even if they had killed so much, cause he would know his friends and know that they would never kill unless they were in a desperate situation as Davis is.

[Anu]

Yeah, and how much effort didn't Clark try to help Chloe in Legion when she was infected by Brainiac? A lot, alot. And she could have destroyed the world just like Davis. And Clark could have either have killed Chloe or put her in the same prison as Davis, but he didn't. He tried to take away Brainiac from her, which he did. Why couldn't Clark try to do the same for Davis?

[Denegation 15]

Yeah, you are all right! He should treat everyone fair. He should try to save Davis!


I mean, that is what a super-hero is about, right? Giving everyone a fair chance. And he even said it himself: he believes in giving second chances.

:p

[Charles Griffyn]

I think that was part of Chloe's point in the FOS, he only chose this so as to avoid the pressure Oliver put on him to kill Davis.

[Smallville Vamp]

Yeah I do!

[Anu]

I think that was part of Chloe's point in the FOS, he only chose this so as to avoid the pressure Oliver put on him to kill Davis.
So, why the hell should he care what Oliver says? Oliver is a murderer! If Clark listens to Oliver, then he would turn to a murderer himself. He should give people a second chance just like he did with Chloe, when she was infected with Brainiac.

----- Added 36 Seconds later -----

I think that Chloe did a good choice, even if it wasn't the best one, she did have good intensions.

[Denegation 15]

So, why the hell should he care what Oliver says? Oliver is a murderer! If Clark listens to Oliver, then he would turn to a murderer himself. He should give people a second chance just like he did with Chloe, when she was infected with Brainiac.

----- Added 36 Seconds later -----

I think that Chloe did a good choice, even if it wasn't the best one, she did have good intensions.
Exactly!
He is being a real hero by not giving into Oliver's pressure. :P

[Charles Griffyn]

So, why the hell should he care what Oliver says? Oliver is a murderer! If Clark listens to Oliver, then he would turn to a murderer himself. He should give people a second chance just like he did with Chloe, when she was infected with Brainiac.

----- Added 36 Seconds later -----

I think that Chloe did a good choice, even if it wasn't the best one, she did have good intensions.

Also bare in mind he doesnt know what Oliver did to "Lex Luthor" (no way it was actually Lex) yet...

[Denegation 15]

And remember guys, Davis will come back stronger than ever if sent to the PZ. He will keep coming back to life in the PZ after being killed. And since some of the guys in the phantom zone can hurt Clark pretty badly, then he will be immune to some of the most powerful attacks.

He might escape somehow and then be a real threat to the world. Any world, for that matter.. :\

[Davis Bloome]

Sending Davis to the PZ will always have bad consequences. Even if Davis loses all his power, can't become DD any longer. How is he going to protect himself in a world full of criminals. They'll eat him alive so in that way Clark would be responsible for his death. If DD could still survive there, but hardly have no powers, he would still be one of the strongest creatures there, therefor his lust for blood will keep killing people even if they are criminals. So Clark would be responsible for the killings of many criminals which is exactly what Davis is responsible for.

[Denegation 15]

Sending Davis to the PZ will always have bad consequences. Even if Davis loses all his power, can't become DD any longer. How is he going to protect himself in a world full of criminals. They'll eat him alive so in that way Clark would be responsible for his death. If DD could still survive there, but hardly have no powers, he would still be one of the strongest creatures there, therefor his lust for blood will keep killing people even if they are criminals. So Clark would be responsible for the killings of many criminals which is exactly what Davis is responsible for.
Wow. Couldn't have said it better myself.

:D

[hero`s passion]

I think it`s different- Chloe was infected by Brainiac, it wasn`t her, but Davis was born like that, he is a beast, he isn`t infected, he just a creature with necessity to kill... and Chloe was a human, whom needed to be saved, IMO...

[Denegation 15]

I think it`s different- Chloe was infected by Brainiac, it wasn`t her, but Davis was born like that, he is a beast, he isn`t infected, he just a creature with necessity to kill... and Chloe was a human, whom needed to be saved, IMO...
Humans aren't the only ones that need to be saved. Davis feels bad for what he did.
And he isn't Doomsday. He does those things so DD doesn't come out.

[Davis Bloome]

It's just a hypothetical question. What if Lana or Chloe were the beast instead of Davis. Would he still throw them in the PZ?

[Denegation 15]

He wouldn't...
That's why he should be fair to Davis.

[hero`s passion]

I don`t know, probably he won`t but if he hasn`t any choice he would- he told Lana to go to get that kryptonite into herself, she could die because of it...

[Denegation 15]

I don`t know, probably he won`t but if he hasn`t any choice he would- he told Lana to go to get that kryptonite into herself, she could die because of it...
I know but Chloe in her state was a higher risk than Davis. Brainiac was planning to wipe out the whole world at once, which DD would kill people one by one.

he still wouldn't have sent her to the PZ.

[Davis Bloome]

I think he would have tried everything to get rid of the beast, before just thinking of what would be easiest. And the Lana with Kryptonite was a different situation. And in the end they came to that choice together. It was not just Clark's decision to let Lana absorb that Kryptonite.

[hero`s passion]

I know but Chloe in her state was a higher risk than Davis. Brainiac was planning to wipe out the whole world at once, which DD would kill people one by one.

he still wouldn't have sent her to the PZ.

but that time the main reason was that Chloe was innocent victim, Davis isn`t a victim... he in some kind like Lex, who tryed to be good, but his darkness took him in...Clark loves him too. they were friends, but how could he protect "the man/not man" from himself- it`s impossible...

[Davis Bloome]

Lex chose to be evil. Davis was more forced to become evil for a greater good. If he hadn't killed all those criminals a lot more people would have died at the hands of DD. And Davis and Clark were never really friends. You saw them acting 'friendly' to each other, but as Tess said there was always something why they in the end didn't get along. And that is because Davis was sent there to kill him.

[Denegation 15]

but that time the main reason was that Chloe was innocent victim, Davis isn`t a victim... he in some kind like Lex, who tryed to be good, but his darkness took him in...Clark loves him too. they were friends, but how could he protect "the man/not man" from himself- it`s impossible...
Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

But Davis doesn't want to be evil and he feels bad for what he does. Lex doesn't.
And Davis isn't fighting his own evil side. He is fighting a whole other entity.

It isn't half vs half here.

It's whole vs whole.

Davis isn't all good, he snapped at Clark, so he has some bad in him. I don't know if Doomsday himself has good in him. Though he didn't hurt Chloe in the wedding.

[hero`s passion]

Yeah, I see where you're coming from.

But Davis doesn't want to be evil and he feels bad for what he does. Lex doesn't.
And Davis isn't fighting his own evil side. He is fighting a whole other entity.

It isn't half vs half here.

It's whole vs whole.

Davis isn't all good, he snapped at Clark, so he has some bad in him. I don't know if Doomsday himself has good in him. Though he didn't hurt Chloe in the wedding.


and I see where you're coming from:))))) it`s right on the one hand, but on the other, Lex was fighting with his evil sight too, but he lost, and Davis will lose too, maybe Clark knows that?... well, we won`t know it anyways:)

[Denegation 15]

and I see where you're coming from:))))) it`s right on the one hand, but on the other, Lex was fighting with his evil sight too, but he lost, and Davis will lose too, maybe Clark knows that?... well, we won`t know it anyways:)
Yeah, I know in Clark's defense he was just tired of everyone telling him what to do and he was backed into a corner. And I wouldn't know what to do if put in that situation either but I just wanted to state that Davis is a being know that deserves what a human does too.

I guess we are both right. :P

[hero`s passion]

yeah, probably:)))))))))

[Denegation 15]

I just hope they save Davis. I hear he is in season 9, so I think something will happen. :P

[Davis Bloome]

In Lex' defence, he grew up in bad circumstances and was raised to become corrupt. That was his father's doing. His father tried to save him later, when he changed himself, but Lex refused to change, cause he despised who his father was and absolutely didn't want to become like him while the ironic part is that eventually Lex became the man his father used to be. Davis was always a good person, but with a bad nature, hence why he killed that bird, cause he didn't know right from wrong. A boy who just came in our world who has no idea killing is wrong, you can't blame the boy for that.

Davis always tried to fight his nature and he still is, while Lex eventually gave into his nature because of circumstances, because he felt all his friends betrayed him, but mostly they did it because of his own doing, his own darkness that had grown onto him when he became older.

[Denegation 15]

In Lex' defence, he grew up in bad circumstances and was raised to become corrupt. That was his father's doing. His father tried to save him later, when he changed himself, but Lex refused to change, cause he despised who his father was and absolutely didn't want to become like him while the ironic part is that eventually Lex became the man his father used to be. Davis was always a good person, but with a bad nature, hence why he killed that bird, cause he didn't know right from wrong. A boy who just came in our world who has no idea killing is wrong, you can't blame the boy for that.

Davis always tried to fight his nature and he still is, while Lex eventually gave into his nature because of circumstances, because he felt all his friends betrayed him, but mostly they did it because of his own doing, his own darkness that had grown onto him when he became older.
True. And plus in the end, everyone has free will(except Davis) and Lex made his choice.

[Tatiana]

I disagree, Davis isn't the same as Chloe was when she was posessed by Brainiac, Davis is essentially Doomsday and Clark knows this, he was created to destroy Clark and the world, he is not posessed by another creature, and there is no cure for it besides destroying him or sending him to the zone. I think Clark has somewhat figured out that he cannot be killed and he actually gets stronger, so his choice was perfect. Now he is going to HAVE to fight him, and kill him which of course doesn't ensure he'll stay dead. If it would have been Lana or Chloe, it would have been different because they were human beings being taken over by other forces, they weren't essentially monsters.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

by the way, I am not so sure how much Davis is trying to fight this monster anymore, his human side might be but I do believe his monster side has taken over his brain, he seemed very evil and manipulative of the situation in Beast, even Chloe's dream showed that when he says to her "what did you think it was going to happen?" to me he knows he'll end up turning into a monster in the end, deep inside he knows it won't work

[Denegation 15]

I disagree, Davis isn't the same as Chloe was when she was posessed by Brainiac, Davis is essentially Doomsday and Clark knows this, he was created to destroy Clark and the world, he is not posessed by another creature, and there is no cure for it besides destroying him or sending him to the zone. I think Clark has somewhat figured out that he cannot be killed and he actually gets stronger, so his choice was perfect. Now he is going to HAVE to fight him, and kill him which of course doesn't ensure he'll stay dead. If it would have been Lana or Chloe, it would have been different because they were human beings being taken over by other forces, they weren't essentially monsters.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----

by the way, I am not so sure how much Davis is trying to fight this monster anymore, his human side might be but I do believe his monster side has taken over his brain, he seemed very evil and manipulative of the situation in Beast, even Chloe's dream showed that when he says to her "what did you think it was going to happen?" to me he knows he'll end up turning into a monster in the end, deep inside he knows it won't work
That is also true. But he will get stronger in the PZ.

[Davis Bloome]

I disagree that Davis is a monster, DD is. Davis might not be 'real'. But he acts real and tries to be as human as he can. He is fighting to be a human and even in Beast he tries to make the best choices at that time available. When facing Jimmy and Oliver, he knocked out Jimmy cause he knew Jimmy was only provoking the monster, and since it was a desperate situation and he absolutely didn't want to let DD to come out, he felt like he had to kill someone. Besides I don't think he was thinking fully rational cause the beast was already trying to come out. I don't agree with this actions but I still do not consider him to be evil. He might be selfish in some of the choices he made, but again that is what makes him human.
And as I said before it's a what if Lana was the beast... Would Clark have thrown her in the PZ.

Chloe's dream didn't involve what Davis was going through, but what Chloe was fearing would happen. In the end it showed that she has feelings for Davis, but that makes it more difficult for the choices she has to make, plus she fears for Clark's life which is another reasons she stays with Davis. She doesn't want to lose Davis as she has feelings for him, but on the other hand she tries to do what she things is best considering circumstances to save Clark from DD. It's a situation that is doomed, but again what if Lana was DD... What would Clark have done then. Just also thrown her into the PZ? I don't think so.

[Tatiana]

That is also true. But he will get stronger in the PZ.


ya it is a tough situation, I guess that's why he is the ultimate destroyer, but that'd give more time to Clark to become Superman and get stronger

[Denegation 15]

I'm getting tired of everyone saying Davis doesn't deserve a fair chance just because he isn't human. Clark isn't human either, might I add, and he makes the right choices. Davis also is trying to make the right choices. So yeah, Davis isn't the monster DD is, like said below. :P

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


ya it is a tough situation, I guess that's why he is the ultimate destroyer, but that'd give more time to Clark to become Superman and get stronger
Yeah but while Clark is getting stronger, Davis is getting stronger than Clark. They should use Chloe, as she can "calm the beast" inside Davis and try to figure something out.


Though I always think, why don't they just cut up DD into all these tiny pieces and scatter them all in space. Not saying they should kill Davis though, they should try to save him somehow. I hope that those pieces don't evolve into full grown DD's. That would suck...

[Tatiana]

I don't think you can really compare Lana being a monster to Davis, Lana wasn't created to destroy, he probably would have tried to find a way to cure her as he did with Chloe, you do have to see though Clark didn't chose to kill Doomsday, like everyone else wanted. Chloe even herself wanted him to kill him, not much of a choice there either. Clark did stop Lana when she was all evil in Wrath, or when she was a vampire, and he did chose the greater good instead of staying with Lana in Requiem. He didn't give up on Kara either when she was in the zone, but I don't think there's much he can do for Davis as he says

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

hey we all have the right to have our own opinion, no need to get upset. I think Chloe has a noble idea but she is over her head, she now can "control" the beast, but it will backfire on her, you'll see. Clark might not be human but he isn't a killer, and sending him to the zone was the best idea, now DD is free and anytime he'll go wild, what is Davis gonna do? tie CHloe to the bed so he doesn't turn into a monster? plus I am sure if Clark were to turn evil, he'd want someone to stop him and either take away his powers, or send him somewhere where he couldn't hurt people

[Denegation 15]

I don't think you can really compare Lana being a monster to Davis, Lana wasn't created to destroy, he probably would have tried to find a way to cure her as he did with Chloe, you do have to see though Clark didn't chose to kill Doomsday, like everyone else wanted. Chloe even herself wanted him to kill him, not much of a choice there either. Clark did stop Lana when she was all evil in Wrath, or when she was a vampire, and he did chose the greater good instead of staying with Lana in Requiem. He didn't give up on Kara either when she was in the zone, but I don't think there's much he can do for Davis as he says

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

hey we all have the right to have our own opinion, no need to get upset. I think Chloe has a noble idea but she is over her head, she now can "control" the beast, but it will backfire on her, you'll see. Clark might not be human but he isn't a killer, and sending him to the zone was the best idea, now DD is free and anytime he'll go wild, what is Davis gonna do? tie CHloe to the bed so he doesn't turn into a monster? plus I am sure if Clark were to turn evil, he'd want someone to stop him and either take away his powers, or send him somewhere where he couldn't hurt people
I understand. But the point being stressed out here is that he found a way to help them on chance. If he didn't, he would have kept looking. it isn't fair that he uses his personal connection with those guys to try and help them. Davis is the victim here. Plus, Davis doesn't have that much time anyway. I say, try to help him until DD fully takes over, then send DD to the PZ. Though DD is only trying to get revenge for being treated so bad, he still shouldn't be killing. He should get 'locked up.'


Oh and I thought he like gave up on Kara. Didn't he basically foget about her until he got sent to the PZ with Lois?

----- Added 48 Seconds later -----


I don't think you can really compare Lana being a monster to Davis, Lana wasn't created to destroy, he probably would have tried to find a way to cure her as he did with Chloe, you do have to see though Clark didn't chose to kill Doomsday, like everyone else wanted. Chloe even herself wanted him to kill him, not much of a choice there either. Clark did stop Lana when she was all evil in Wrath, or when she was a vampire, and he did chose the greater good instead of staying with Lana in Requiem. He didn't give up on Kara either when she was in the zone, but I don't think there's much he can do for Davis as he says

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----

hey we all have the right to have our own opinion, no need to get upset. I think Chloe has a noble idea but she is over her head, she now can "control" the beast, but it will backfire on her, you'll see. Clark might not be human but he isn't a killer, and sending him to the zone was the best idea, now DD is free and anytime he'll go wild, what is Davis gonna do? tie CHloe to the bed so he doesn't turn into a monster? plus I am sure if Clark were to turn evil, he'd want someone to stop him and either take away his powers, or send him somewhere where he couldn't hurt people
I know. I'm not saying yours is wrong or anything. I'm all for expressing your idea. :p

I'm just stating mine too. :)

And true, Clark would want that. But I doubt Chloe would give up on him, never the less.

[Davis Bloome]

As I said the PZ always have bad consequences. Davis has no powers, he gets killed by other criminals, thus Clark is resposible for his death. Davis has powers and changes into DD, he kills all the other criminals there, thus Clark is responsible for exactly what Davis did... Killing criminals. Davis becomes Doomsday without powers, it will still be one of, if not the strongest creature in the PZ with a lust to kill, thus Clark is still responsible for the murder of many criminals there.

[Tatiana]

I think Clark wants to avoid him turning into DD though, there's isn't much difference there, Davis has already killed not necessarily being DD, if he turns fully into DD he won't be able to send him to the zone, he;ll have to fight him, Clark knows that I think. But hey I guess it wouldn't be drama if that wasn't going to happen. I don't think Clark gave up on Davis, he just realized there isn't much he can do to help him anymore and he realized they were never brothers, I am glad he said that. I thought it was sick how he was yet again blaming himself for Davis' future

[Denegation 15]

I don't think he should blame himself. He is doing everything he can to save Davis. I just hope they hold on a little while long until they can help him.

[Davis Bloome]

I don't see how Clark would know how Davis would turn out in the PZ. He lost his powers when he was in the PZ. But Davis/DD has different powers. He may become stronger by the yellow sun, but his ability to change into DD and even to become stronger when he dies are more of a genetic kind, rather than an effect of the yellow sun, so DD could still be immortal and on a killing spray in the PZ. Is Clark really out of options here, or did he just give up because he doesn't respect Davis as a human because he may act like one but he isn't. I think there is another option, such as freezing him in. If Clark couldn't escape then there must be a way, that Davis can't either.

[Tatiana]

I think he did blame himself in Eternal, but he has realized it is not his fault, I don't think they can help Davis, sad to say cuz he was cool. I just wonder if Clark would have decided to send Brainiac to the zone, would people be mad too? yet they r mad cuz he didn't want to kill DD

[Denegation 15]

Actually I would be mad if he sent Chloe/Brainiac to the PZ, if that's what you mean. He would have given up on her.


I hope the freezing helps though. DD is stronger than superman. But I bet Jor-El has a few things up his sleeve.


Also, if he did sen Chloe to the PZ, I would actually have more respect for Clark in his attempt to send Davis there too. Because then it would show he wasn't choosing favorites.

[Tatiana]

Actually I would be mad if he sent Chloe/Brainiac to the PZ, if that's what you mean. He would have given up on her.


I hope the freezing helps though. DD is stronger than superman. But I bet Jor-El has a few things up his sleeve.


Also, if he did sen Chloe to the PZ, I would actually have more respect for Clark in his attempt to send Davis there too. Because then it would show he wasn't choosing favorites.


No I meant Brainiac, as in JM not Chloe/Brainiac

[Denegation 15]

No I meant Brainiac, as in JM not Chloe/Brainiac
Oh ok. Well, on that I don't know. Milton was a computer that has high intelligence but I don't know if he has a conscious. I mean he can be programmed for evil or good.

[Tatiana]

uh huh he was programmed too like DD, I guess the only difference is that DD was sent with an ulterego that was supposed to look human and the more he stayed with them without knowing his purpose, he felt like them. it just seems to me Davis is no longer so human anymore, he really scared me in Beast, he seems very monster like, not even turning red eyes lol

[Denegation 15]

Yeah, but he is holding on. He still has some humanity in him. Though I do agree he is becoming less human. He just doesn't want to lose control. I don't know if he is doing this out of selfishness(killing others to keep control), or because he doesn't want to lose Chloe, or because he knows that he will hurt a lot more people if he becomes DD.

[Davis Bloome]

I'm not sure if Clark knows if Davis has to ability to die and become stronger. Nobody ever told him that really. Maybe he refused to kill him because he does consider Davis to be human? But sending him to the PZ was not a good idea imo. And maybe Chloe was right and he wouldn't be able to live with himself, I'm not sure. I don't know what went through Davis mind when Clark proposed Davis to go to the PZ. Did he think death would be acceptable but a life without Chloe wouldn't?

[Denegation 15]

He did say he didn't like a life without Chloe.

I don't know if he said that because he loves Chloe, or because he knows if there is no Chloe then DD would come out, or maybe both.

And he might have realized that death isn't an option. He can't die so he knows it will just keep making him worse.

[Tatiana]

Yeah, but he is holding on. He still has some humanity in him. Though I do agree he is becoming less human. He just doesn't want to lose control. I don't know if he is doing this out of selfishness(killing others to keep control), or because he doesn't want to lose Chloe, or because he knows that he will hurt a lot more people if he becomes DD.

True, I think it might be a little bit of both, he definitely does not want to lose Chloe, I think he would prefer death than losing Chloe, so Clark's decision did seem more cruel to him. I think Clark felt just as confused we are when Chloe said that at the fortress, it is a tough situation...we'll have to see the consequences of all of their decisions.

[Denegation 15]

True, I think it might be a little bit of both, he definitely does not want to lose Chloe, I think he would prefer death than losing Chloe, so Clark's decision did seem more cruel to him. I think Clark felt just as confused we are when Chloe said that at the fortress, it is a tough situation...we'll have to see the consequences of all of their decisions.
Yeah, at this point I wont blame any of them. I wouldn't know what to do in any of their places.

[Davis Bloome]

I don't blame any of them either. I think they're all at fault to some degree. Some more than the other of course. Clark is still probably least at fault. He acted a bit rash is some situations and imo hypocrite, but he's also struggling in dilemma's that don't make it easy to make a choice what would be the best solution.

[Denegation 15]

Yeah. I think some people take it too far though. I mean there are sometimes clear solutions but the writers wrote what happened for a reason.

Those characters are all fictional. But that doesn't stop us from relating I guess.

:P

[bigblueplanet]

I just don't think that Clark would have done the same thing, that he was going to do to Davis, putting him in a prison for life. I don't think that he would have done that if it was Lana, if Lana was the beast or even Chloe. He only do that kind of things to people he doesn't love or really care about! And for that reason I see him as selfish.

Well, I think he will, if Lana was born from the EGG. And if Lana was created to be the ultimate destroyer which is unstoppable like Jol-el warned him about. And if Lana was a creature that transform into a monster unless she kills someone to calm the beast within her? If there were no prisons that can hold her on earth? If she was able to destroy entire planet within a week and even Clark himself would have difficulty stopping her?

In these cases, yes. I believe Clark would put her in the PZ, too. JMO

[Denegation 15]

Well, I think he will, if Lana was born from the EGG. And if Lana was created to be the ultimate destroyer which is unstoppable like Jol-el warned him about. And if Lana was a creature that transform into a monster unless she kills someone to calm the beast within her? If there were no prisons that can hold her on earth? If she was able to destroy entire planet within a week and even Clark himself would have difficulty stopping her?

In these cases, yes. I believe Clark would put her in the PZ, too. JMO
I don't know about that. Clark loves her. He wouldn't ever hurt her; even if she has killed. Remember when that inner-witch came out? She was trying to kill Jason, and with those stones, be able to harm a lot of the world. Yet, he didn't kill her.


Well, I guess we wouldn't know, right? lol We would have to ask the writers. ;)

[Davis Bloome]

I think he would try to get the beast out of Lana. I'm surprised he wouldn't try to get daddy back and get rid of the kryptonite in her suit. If the ship could neutralize kryptonite, then the fortress probably can do the same. But I guess the writers chose to ignore that otherwise they would have had to come up with another idea to get rid of Lana...

[SGuthrie27]

Wow, interesting conversation and good food for thought. I think that you all are right in a lot of ways. Even though Davis isn't as "innocent" per se as Chloe was when she was infected by Brainiac, that doesn't mean that he's not worth saving. He's shown us in past episodes that he can be heroic when he wants to be. Remember the things he said in "Bloodline" and "Legion?" He truly doesn't want to hurt anyone, and had devoted his life to helping people, even after he'd been through such a traumatic excuse for a childhood and lousy youth, being bounced between uncaring foster homes. You'd better believe that Clark would be trying harder if it were Lana, Chloe, or any of his other dearest friends. And it isn't Davis' fault that he's the way he is -- it's the genetic engineering of a couple of crazy people. Zod and Faora built him to be the destroyer that he is. Yet he decided to try to be the best "human" he could be, even if we all know that he's "doomed" to failure.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Exedore]

Clark would have gone into the PZ with Lana to spend eternity with her. The last scene of the series would have been Clark and Lana having marathon sex in the river of blood. :eek:

[bigblueplanet]

I don't know about that. Clark loves her. He wouldn't ever hurt her; even if she has killed. Remember when that inner-witch came out? She was trying to kill Jason, and with those stones, be able to harm a lot of the world. Yet, he didn't kill her.


Well, O/P asked us if we think Clark would send Lana to the PZ if she were Doomsday, it wasn’t a question of whether or not he would kill her, was it? And no, I don’t think he would kill anyone no matter if he/she were human or alien or creature.

IMO, to compare the ‘Lana as witch’ to ‘Lana as beast’ is like compare apples and oranges, because Lana was possessed by Isobel and not born as Isobel. Lana was a victim who was unwillingly (and unknowingly) taken her body by the powerful witch. Isobel wasn’t Lana’s camouflage, it was someone else entirely.

Back on 'if-Lana-was-a-beast' topic, if she had the same background and has done same things as Davis/Doomsday, I’d still think Clark would have sent her to the PZ. But I’m pretty sure he would visit her in there with a picnic box every weekend. LOL


I think he would try to get the beast out of Lana.

Yes, I think he definitely would. And for him to do that, he needs to take beast-Lana to the Dr. Hamilton’s lab and work with him and figuring out for a cure or any other solution better than sending her away to PZ. But he can’t do that if Chloe decided to hide her in the Talon’s basement and then left town with her.

I don’t think Clark is the one who is acting selfishly. YMMV

[Denegation 15]

Well, O/P asked us if we think Clark would send Lana to the PZ if she were Doomsday, it wasn’t a question of whether or not he would kill her, was it? And no, I don’t think he would kill anyone no matter if he/she were human or alien or creature.

IMO, to compare the ‘Lana as witch’ to ‘Lana as beast’ is like compare apples and oranges, because Lana was possessed by Isobel and not born as Isobel. Lana was a victim who was unwillingly (and unknowingly) taken her body by the powerful witch. Isobel wasn’t Lana’s camouflage, it was someone else entirely.

Back on 'if-Lana-was-a-beast' topic, if she had the same background and has done same things as Davis/Doomsday, I’d still think Clark would have sent her to the PZ. But I’m pretty sure he would visit her in there with a picnic box every weekend. LOL



Yes, I think he definitely would. And for him to do that, he needs to take beast-Lana to the Dr. Hamilton’s lab and work with him and figuring out for a cure or any other solution better than sending her away to PZ. But he can’t do that if Chloe decided to hide her in the Talon’s basement and then left town with her.

I don’t think Clark is the one who is acting selfishly. YMMV
Uhm, if you look at what you quoted of me, it says he wouldn't ever hurt her.
The Killing part was an emphasis on him not hurting the people he cares about and not giving people like Davis a fair chance.
I think that pretty much stays on what we were talking about.

[rej@ne]

Well, I think he will, if Lana was born from the EGG. And if Lana was created to be the ultimate destroyer which is unstoppable like Jol-el warned him about. And if Lana was a creature that transform into a monster unless she kills someone to calm the beast within her? If there were no prisons that can hold her on earth? If she was able to destroy entire planet within a week and even Clark himself would have difficulty stopping her?

In these cases, yes. I believe Clark would put her in the PZ, too. JMO

Exactally!! You guys are forgetting a little (but extremelly important) thing: Doomsday was created to be a killer like Jor El warned Clark. Nor Lana nor Chloe fit that role. They are human and as human they deserve to be saved! Like Lex! Clark could have put an end in Lex for good so many times (even after their friendship ended) and even though Clark always refused to kill him. In REQUIEM he really thought abt killing Lex for what he has done with Lana but still he thought better after Lana told he would regret for the rest of his life...
Superman never ever takes a life like CK said to the Legion(1st rule remember?) and besides Doomsday is not human or even a real kryptonian.. he´s a lab creation like Feora said in Bloodline ep
So please guys give our hero a break all right?

[Denegation 15]

But humans aren't the only ones that should be helped.
Davis has a conscious and knows right or wrong. he also has feelings.

[Davis Bloome]

Exactly.
So please guys give our hero a break all right?
Why don't people give Davis a break. I think some are too hard on him. And yeah Clark. Great idea the PZ! Brilliant. Lock him up with a bunch of criminals who will kill him without a doubt if he loses his powers, or lock those criminals up who will get killed for sure if Davis turns to DD. Yeah that will get a lot of blood on Clark's hands. Nice thinking, supe! I thought it was a bad idea and I think Chloe was right on that part, so it was good that she closed the portal.

Davis may not be a human, he's a kryptonian created in a lab. He looks human, acts human and just wants to be human. I don't blame him for trying to be that way and under the circumstances he's in I don't blame him for those killings. It's not right, but it's not easy either considering his circumstances and again he made some selfish choices, but that makes him only more human, not evil.

[bigblueplanet]

Uhm, if you look at what you quoted of me, it says he wouldn't ever hurt her.
The Killing part was an emphasis on him not hurting the people he cares about and not giving people like Davis a fair chance.
I think that pretty much stays on what we were talking about.

Actually we’re on the very different page, Robert. You’re saying Clark would never put Lana into PZ, and I’m saying he’d definitely will. Btw, I find this thread interesting because ‘if Lana was the beast’ angle helps us see this situation in the different perspective.

One more thing we’re not agreeing here is that you see Davis and Doomsday as different persona but me, I see them as one. Davis Bloom to me is not Anakin Skywalker, there’s no ‘second chance’ for him in the future, imo.

Though there was the chance of redemption for Davis, and ‘Beast’ was it. If there’s a tiny bit of ‘good’ left in Davis, he should have walked into PZ willingly, just like he was willing to kill himself back in ‘Eternal’. He found out that even Kryptonite can’t kill him and now Clark gives him the chance to be in a place where he no longer harms anyone else. (And this is another thing we’re disagreeing with. lol)

Davis feels bad for what he did which is good, but obviously he doesn’t want to take responsibility for it anymore. Davis knows he was created to be the ultimate destroyer of the earth, he knows what he is, that he is evolving to be Doomsday. If he had a sense of justice left in him just like he chose to be paramedic = saves people’s lives, then, he wouldn’t think only about himself (i.e. happy life with Chloe) but he rather takes responsibility of his action and accepts his doomed fate and walks into PZ because that’s the right thing to do if he doesn’t want to kill/hurt more people, imo.

But he didn’t. In my eyes he is rapidly losing his human camouflage as well as his sense of right & wrong and his wish to end his life being the beast. Now, he wants to live with Chloe. Because for him, having a chance to have a happy life with Chloe is much more important than the risk of killing others.



But humans aren't the only ones that should be helped.
Davis has a conscious and knows right or wrong. he also has feelings.

Bottom line: It's just my opinion, but if he still knows right and wrong, he had walked into PZ by himself and prevents the risk from killing billion of lives.

[Davis Bloome]

I think he still knows right from wrong. He has a concious which is haunting him. Why would he apologize that he had to kill Oliver if he didn't know right from wrong. Why not let him kill Oliver so that the beast stays away. Or better yet if he didn't know right from wrong, why all this effort to prevent in coming the beast. It takes up a lot of stress and pressure. If he allowed himself to become the beast, now THAT would be evil. It would show he had no remorse or no regret of his or DD's victims at all and it would show he absolutely didn't care. The PZ? Well if you watch closely he wasn't completely himself when he refused. His eyes turned red just before he turned it down. My guess, he was more irrational because DD was taking over slowly. Would he have stepped in the PZ if he was truly himself? I don't know... I think he still wouldn't have because of his human desire to be happy. It's selfish I know, but again I don't think it's evil, but that is just my opinion.

[bigblueplanet]

I think he still knows right from wrong. He has a concious which is haunting him. Why would he apologize that he had to kill Oliver if he didn't know right from wrong. Why not let him kill Oliver so that the beast stays away.

He chose Oliver because he thought Ollie was less important to Chloe. But he doesn’t want to kill Oliver either if he could avoid it because he is also a friend of Chloe, but if he was a thug like AJ (i.e. a stranger to Chloe), he’s been long dead, imo. I think there’s no longer right or wrong in his mind, because killing either of them are both VERY wrong.

It’s not his moral compasses that reflect his action any longer but his needs to kill in order to calm his beast within. In other words, he became a monster as Davis as well. The 50 bodies in the cornfield also proved that. JMO


Or better yet if he didn't know right from wrong, why all this effort to prevent in coming the beast. It takes up a lot of stress and pressure. If he allowed himself to become the beast, now THAT would be evil. It would show he had no remorse or no regret of his or DD's victims at all and it would show he absolutely didn't care.

Because he can’t have Chloe as Doomsday. He has to be Davis to be around her. Like he said to Clark, for Davis this is his chance to be ‘happy’. And he can’t have that if he let himself turns into the beast. Also Dr. Hamilton said that he thinks it has something to do with ‘his intense emotions like love, hate... obsession’ (also it’s hard to believe he actually said that). So again, I don’t think it’s his moral compasses that prevent him from transforming.


The PZ? Well if you watch closely he wasn't completely himself when he refused. His eyes turned red just before he turned it down. My guess, he was more irrational because DD was taking over slowly. Would he have stepped in the PZ if he was truly himself? I don't know... I think he still wouldn't have because of his human desire to be happy. It's selfish I know, but again I don't think it's evil, but that is just my opinion.

You also see him as two different persona, but this is where we disagree. For me, he is completely himself when he is Doomsday and he is not truly himself when he is Davis Bloom. I don’t see many people saying he is evil though. But I do see many saying that he has to be brought to justice for the crimes that he’s already committed, and I agree. Because if Davis were a human being, if he was one of us, our authority would put him straight into prison, wouldn’t they? That’s why Clark’s choice was right, imo, because PZ is designed particularly for criminals like him whom no earth prison can hold.

But I can understand why some people feel sympathetic to him. I also do to a certain degree. But it doesn’t change my POV that it was the right decision on Clark’s part. But then again, if the beast was Lana (our on-topic subject, finally! lol), I believe he would have tried some other options before, and this opinion of mine brings back to what I was saying in my 2nd post. Chloe shouldn’t have left with Davis whether or not her intention was to protect both of them or only Clark, imo. She should have persuaded Davis to seek out help (namely Clark), and if this didn’t work, she and Clark should’ve asked him to go to PZ willingly before it’s too late. Of course he probably wouldn’t, but just giving him a last chance for redemption. JMO

But I guess a plot like this is too boring and wouldn’t make a dramatic TV. :p

[Davis Bloome]

I explained on many occasions why the PZ is a really bad idea. The fact that Davis chose Oliver didn't really have to with what's right or wrong. It's just that he was running out of choices and time was running out. The fact Davis has to kill someone in order to prevent more killings by DD doesn't make it more easy to choose. Since he used to be not a prisoner in some basement, he always made sure he would pick a criminal of the highest scum to kill, while that was still wrong, it's still better than killing an innocent as DD does. But because he was locked up it's not like he had a big choice of list of criminals any longer of who he could kill to settle the beast. But yeah they should have searched for help instead of hiding, but I think Chloe was afraid for the consequences if Davis and Clark were ever going to meet again. So in that way I think she was afraid to seach out Clark's help.

[bigblueplanet]

I explained on many occasions why the PZ is a really bad idea.

I’ve read all your posts (in this thread) before responding so I know PZ is another thing we disagree. But I intentionally didn’t touch on it because it’s a very hypothetical subject and no one really knows at this moment how Doomsday/Davis would be affected by the PZ environment.


The fact that Davis chose Oliver didn't really have to with what's right or wrong. It's just that he was running out of choices and time was running out.

This is exactly what I said in my last post. Oh, so what you meant was the fact he said 'sorry' to Oliver made you think Davis still knows right or wrong?


The fact Davis has to kill someone in order to prevent more killings by DD doesn't make it more easy to choose. Since he used to be not a prisoner in some basement, he always made sure he would pick a criminal of the highest scum to kill, while that was still wrong, it's still better than killing an innocent as DD does. But because he was locked up it's not like he had a big choice of list of criminals any longer of who he could kill to settle the beast.

He was never locked up. He is already powerful as Davis (= He punched Clark and throwed him away in the FoS). And he did go out searching for Chloe, remember? He chose to stay there because he thought Chloe’s - calming the beast – influence would prevent him from killing and seemingly it was working until very recently.


But yeah they should have searched for help instead of hiding, but I think Chloe was afraid for the consequences if Davis and Clark were ever going to meet again. So in that way I think she was afraid to seach out Clark's help.

I agree. But if she was afraid of the consequences that Davis and Clark were ever going to meet again, then why didn’t she let Clark send him to the PZ? It was actually their best bet that he and Davis would never meet again, wasn’t it? One of the problems I had with this scene is that she contradicted herself later, telling Clark that she is doing all this for protecting him. If this wasn’t about Clark never forgive himself of giving up on Davis (i.e. that’s what Chloe said at first) but it was all about her protecting Clark, then, sending Davis to PZ before he fully transforms into Doomsday was the best shot for both of them, imo.

[Davis Bloome]

Well whatever he changes like in the PZ it always results bad whether its for Davis himself or for the other criminals inside the PZ.
On your second point, I said he still knows the difference between right and wrong, but that doesn't mean he doesn't do anything wrong, of course he's making the wrong choices, but the point is that he at least knows it wrongs, while a villain as Lex would still think he was doing the right thing.
He was in a way 'locked up' that is what I meant to say. Of course he could go out anytime he wanted, but the fact is that he didn't really have but a choice but to stay indoors, cause that is what Chloe and her had discussed. He only went outdoors because again things were becoming more desperate and he was changing into DD again. So he was hoping to find Chloe asap, so he wouldn't.

But yeah as you said it we both disagree on the pz issue, so I think I have my anser why Chloe didn't let Clark put Davis in the PZ. And I don't really believed her wen she said she was doing this all for Clark. Yes she is doing this all for Clark, but also for Davis, cause as Clark said he does have feelings for him. She's just saying that she's doing it for him to justify her actions. As you said it if it was all for Clark why didn't she allow Davis to get in the PZ? That is what I don't get with fans who seem to be convinced that she is indeed doing this all for Clark. Sorry but seems they just want it that way because they are Chlark fans maybe? I think the best solution is still to freeze Davis in. As I said before if Clark couldn't escape from it, why could Davis. There has to be a way to contain him so he is in a harmony, in hibernation. That way Clark doesn't have to kill him, and he would not live in an eternal hell.

[Iluvgreen]

It so would've done the same to Lana! Actually, that may be me just wishing. :D

[Denegation 15]

Actually we’re on the very different page, Robert. You’re saying Clark would never put Lana into PZ, and I’m saying he’d definitely will. Btw, I find this thread interesting because ‘if Lana was the beast’ angle helps us see this situation in the different perspective.

One more thing we’re not agreeing here is that you see Davis and Doomsday as different persona but me, I see them as one. Davis Bloom to me is not Anakin Skywalker, there’s no ‘second chance’ for him in the future, imo.

Though there was the chance of redemption for Davis, and ‘Beast’ was it. If there’s a tiny bit of ‘good’ left in Davis, he should have walked into PZ willingly, just like he was willing to kill himself back in ‘Eternal’. He found out that even Kryptonite can’t kill him and now Clark gives him the chance to be in a place where he no longer harms anyone else. (And this is another thing we’re disagreeing with. lol)

Davis feels bad for what he did which is good, but obviously he doesn’t want to take responsibility for it anymore. Davis knows he was created to be the ultimate destroyer of the earth, he knows what he is, that he is evolving to be Doomsday. If he had a sense of justice left in him just like he chose to be paramedic = saves people’s lives, then, he wouldn’t think only about himself (i.e. happy life with Chloe) but he rather takes responsibility of his action and accepts his doomed fate and walks into PZ because that’s the right thing to do if he doesn’t want to kill/hurt more people, imo.

But he didn’t. In my eyes he is rapidly losing his human camouflage as well as his sense of right & wrong and his wish to end his life being the beast. Now, he wants to live with Chloe. Because for him, having a chance to have a happy life with Chloe is much more important than the risk of killing others.




Bottom line: It's just my opinion, but if he still knows right and wrong, he had walked into PZ by himself and prevents the risk from killing billion of lives.
I understand but we will never be in that situation.
He just wants to be happy. We can never blame someone for that.

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----


Actually we’re on the very different page, Robert. You’re saying Clark would never put Lana into PZ, and I’m saying he’d definitely will. Btw, I find this thread interesting because ‘if Lana was the beast’ angle helps us see this situation in the different perspective.

One more thing we’re not agreeing here is that you see Davis and Doomsday as different persona but me, I see them as one. Davis Bloom to me is not Anakin Skywalker, there’s no ‘second chance’ for him in the future, imo.

Though there was the chance of redemption for Davis, and ‘Beast’ was it. If there’s a tiny bit of ‘good’ left in Davis, he should have walked into PZ willingly, just like he was willing to kill himself back in ‘Eternal’. He found out that even Kryptonite can’t kill him and now Clark gives him the chance to be in a place where he no longer harms anyone else. (And this is another thing we’re disagreeing with. lol)

Davis feels bad for what he did which is good, but obviously he doesn’t want to take responsibility for it anymore. Davis knows he was created to be the ultimate destroyer of the earth, he knows what he is, that he is evolving to be Doomsday. If he had a sense of justice left in him just like he chose to be paramedic = saves people’s lives, then, he wouldn’t think only about himself (i.e. happy life with Chloe) but he rather takes responsibility of his action and accepts his doomed fate and walks into PZ because that’s the right thing to do if he doesn’t want to kill/hurt more people, imo.

But he didn’t. In my eyes he is rapidly losing his human camouflage as well as his sense of right & wrong and his wish to end his life being the beast. Now, he wants to live with Chloe. Because for him, having a chance to have a happy life with Chloe is much more important than the risk of killing others.




Bottom line: It's just my opinion, but if he still knows right and wrong, he had walked into PZ by himself and prevents the risk from killing billion of lives.
Nice post. :)

I think that it isn't Davis the camouflage anymore. He has become a sentient being.
He has a conscious.
And I don't see him as half. I think Davis is a whole, with his own good and bad side. And DD is whole, they just inhabit the same being in a way.


And I know that the right thing to do is self sacrifice for the rest of the world, but what I am stressing out is that we aren't in that situation, and not everyone would choose the same thing. Also, he probably already gave up on taking responsibility after he kept failing. I mean, he even tried to kill himself, right?

And plus, he will start killing everyone in the PZ, or get stronger there.


One more thing I'm stressing out is that if you were in his place, you wouldn't want someone to give up on you like that. I'm just saying from my point of view that I would see him as if he feels he's fading and no one really cares, excluding Chloe of course.

I'm also putting in my own religious views. I believe in God, and I believe in the 'don't take a life' rule. I respect Clark for his ethics and morals. But he would be giving up on Davis which is the same as letting him die. And he will be putting criminals at risk of death, which is still wrong. (in my eyes)


If I was Clark, I would try to help Davis. Talk things out with Chloe and Oliver look for options. I mean, if he goes and attacks people, then I would try my best to stop him. People die everyday and I wouldn't be able to help everyone but I wouldn't want to give up on a person in need. God would probably be more proud of me trying to hold on to someone and help them, then just leaving them to their own fate. I don't think this is the only plane of existence we will have, so I think that things happen for a reason. I would try to stop him though, if he broke loose.

Everyone keeps saying he isn't human, so he doesn't deserve the human's get out of free jail card. But he has a conscious and he has intelligence. Just because he isn't human doesn't mean we cannot help. Everyone in need deserves help.

And I'm sorry if you aren't religious, I'm just sticking my opinion on here and I hope you guys know I might disagree and everything but I respect every opinion on here. :)



ps they should consider the black Kryptonite...

[green_arrow_girl358]

well, yeah he would've done the same thing to lana. eventually she wouldn't be able to control the beast and he would have no choice. i think even clark can what has to be done in the face of mass murder

[Davis Bloome]

Eventually he might have thrown Lana in the PZ, but as one was joking about it, he would have joined her lol. I can't exactly see him dong that with Davis. Anyway I still think he would have placed a lot more effort in helping Lana and only use the PZ if there were really no options left and I just think that Clark didn't have enough knowledge about Davis/DD to just put him in the PZ, I just don't think it was the best solution in this matter.

[bigblueplanet]

Thanks, Robert. I respect everyone’s opinions too, we’re just disagreeing on this topic that’s all. That’s the beauty of the forum, right? ;)

Instead of quoting the post, I list up the part where we disagree or see things differently this time.

■ You think Davis has a conscious and knows right or wrong. I think not. Because if he knows what’s right, killing people for whatever reason is NOT right, imo.

■ You said Davis deserves a 2nd chance, but this means after serving 20 to 30 years of prison time atoning his crime, right? And you think PZ is a bad idea, so where you think is a good idea for Davis?

■ You think Davis is trying to make the right choices. I disagree. Making the right choices would be trying to take responsibility for the crimes he committed, NOT seek happiness with a girl he loves and just walk away with her, especially when he knows he could be dangerous to her as well. JMO

Lastly…..


If I was Clark, I would try to help Davis. Talk things out with Chloe and Oliver look for options.

This is exactly what Clark tried to do in ‘Eternal’. He asked Chloe not to pull the lever (= NOT to kill Davis) and offered helping hands. But he couldn’t because Chloe pulled the lever. We don’t know the consequences afterwards if he weren’t killed because he was about to transform into DD even though there was Chloe (= sloppy writing? :rolleyes:) but the fact still remains that Clark was ready to help Davis.

And if Clark knew Davis came back from the dead and now immune to Kryptonite, I’m also sure that he’d still try to help IF Davis had come to him for a help. Davis called him his ‘Kryptonian brother’, and also knows he’s ready to help. In my personal view, Clark was left without a choice. Because how Clark could try to help Davis if he was lead to believe Davis was dead in the first place? How he could try to talk things out with Chloe and Oliver looking for options when one of them was harboring him in her basement without telling him he was alive? And then left town with him? And now I think it’s hard to talk to Oliver for ‘another option’ when he almost became Davis’s next victim himself.

All in all, I don’t understand why you guys think it’s Clark - out of all people -, who is not fair on this matter.

[Davis Bloome]

■ You think Davis has a conscious and knows right or wrong. I think not. Because if he knows what’s right, killing people for whatever reason is NOT right, imo.
I think he tries to make the best choice considering the circumstances. Those might not be the best choices or even the right choices, but the fact he feels regret and remorse does prove he knows right from wrong, but again considering the circumstances he doesn't have much choice left, but to kill, so not more people get killed by DD, that is what he is trying to do by the murders he does himself. 1 death is still better than who knows how many death, but DD would kill a lot more that's for sure.



■ You said Davis deserves a 2nd chance, but this means after serving 20 to 30 years of prison time atoning his crime, right? And you think PZ is a bad idea, so where you think is a good idea for Davis? What I think is a good idea is to freeze him in. Either way I think Clark acted pretty rash. I don't think he thought about all possibilities that could have been done. His father might know... But again he didn't do any effort to bring Jor-el back it seems, nor is he putting much effort in saving Davis, even if the audience knows he is doomed, how would Clark know? He only knows DD is the ultimate destroyer and the rest he knows from Tess.




■ You think Davis is trying to make the right choices. I disagree. Making the right choices would be trying to take responsibility for the crimes he committed, NOT seek happiness with a girl he loves and just walk away with her, especially when he knows he could be dangerous to her as well. JMO
I don't think I ever said he always makes the right choices, certainly not. He has been selfish in some of his choices, like refusing to go to the PZ, like who to kill... Oli or Jimmy. He chose Jimmy cause he knew that Chloe certainly wouldn't like it if he killed Jimmy. But that selfishness comes from desires, feelings. And that makes him more human imo.






This is exactly what Clark tried to do in ‘Eternal’. He asked Chloe not to pull the lever (= NOT to kill Davis) and offered helping hands. But he couldn’t because Chloe pulled the lever. We don’t know the consequences afterwards if he weren’t killed because he was about to transform into DD even though there was Chloe (= sloppy writing? :rolleyes:) but the fact still remains that Clark was ready to help Davis. I think pulling that lever was an act of desperation. Chloe still fears DD might kill Clark and who knows he might have. We can't say. But I don't disagree that if Clark was given the oppertunity he would have helped.



And if Clark knew Davis came back from the dead and now immune to Kryptonite, I’m also sure that he’d still try to help IF Davis had come to him for a help. Davis called him his ‘Kryptonian brother’, and also knows he’s ready to help. In my personal view, Clark was left without a choice. Because how Clark could try to help Davis if he was lead to believe Davis was dead in the first place? How he could try to talk things out with Chloe and Oliver looking for options when one of them was harboring him in her basement without telling him he was alive? And then left town with him? And now I think it’s hard to talk to Oliver for ‘another option’ when he almost became Davis’s next victim himself. There's a few things I don't understand. Mainly when he said Davis and him were brothers. What changed his mind that happened between Eternal and Beast, that they weren't? In Eternal he said it wasn't Davis fault, yet in Beast he flat out calls him a murderer, while Clark should know the reason why does murders were made in the first place. Maybe the reason that Clark just called him a casual murderer, is one of the reasons why Chloe didn't ask for his help plus she's afraid of what would happen if they met again. Would Davis change again? Cause you spoke of bad writing... Maybe the love he feels for Chloe and her presence stops him from changing, however maybe the hate he feels for Clark and his presence is stronger than that... Seeings how he changed pretty fast, is another reason Chloe doesn't want Clark's help, cause how could she under those circumstances bring them together?

[bigblueplanet]

I think he tries to make the best choice considering the circumstances. Those might not be the best choices or even the right choices, but the fact he feels regret and remorse does prove he knows right from wrong, but again considering the circumstances he doesn't have much choice left, but to kill, so not more people get killed by DD, that is what he is trying to do by the murders he does himself. 1 death is still better than who knows how many death, but DD would kill a lot more that's for sure.

Are you saying killing people is his best choice because to kill one people each time instead of 100 people is better? How about kill no one?

Let’s just think Doomsday and Davis as separate entities and pretend Davis is only Davis (i.e. human). He’d still be a serial killer, isn’t he? If he killed 50 people, he needs to be locked up. Period. You and Robert talk about his 2nd chance and he ‘deserves’ another option etc, but what about those who got killed by Davis? Where is 2nd chance for the drunken driver for example? Those criminals who got killed brutally by Davis wouldn’t have deserved another option than getting squashed? Whether or not he is Doomsday, with the crime he has committed as Davis Bloom alone should put him in the prison. JMO


What I think is a good idea is to freeze him in. Either way I think Clark acted pretty rash. I don't think he thought about all possibilities that could have been done. His father might know... But again he didn't do any effort to bring Jor-el back it seems, nor is he putting much effort in saving Davis, even if the audience knows he is doomed, how would Clark know? He only knows DD is the ultimate destroyer and the rest he knows from Tess.

Freeze him and leave him where exactly? Since you are so worried that he might get hurt by other phantoms or prisoners if he was put in PZ, what about the possibility of him having an arterial ruptures? Or permanent brain damages? Don’t you worry about that? Davis/Doomsday could die by getting frozen also, you know.


I don't think I ever said he always makes the right choices, certainly not. He has been selfish in some of his choices, like refusing to go to the PZ, like who to kill... Oli or Jimmy. He chose Jimmy cause he knew that Chloe certainly wouldn't like it if he killed Jimmy. But that selfishness comes from desires, feelings. And that makes him more human imo.

Sorry, Davis (since I don’t know your real name I hope you don’t mind me calling you Davis.), it seems like I didn’t make it clear enough. My last post was response to Robert (aka Denegation 15).

Btw, I don’t think Chloe would like even a bit either if Davis had chosen Oliver instead, but I know you’d agree me on this. If you ask me, his selfishness comes from his instincts, nature, subconsciousness to kill, survive, and destroy. YMMV


I think pulling that lever was an act of desperation. Chloe still fears DD might kill Clark and who knows he might have. We can't say. But I don't disagree that if Clark was given the oppertunity he would have helped.

Great! Finally we agree on something. :cool:


There's a few things I don't understand. Mainly when he said Davis and him were brothers. What changed his mind that happened between Eternal and Beast, that they weren't? In Eternal he said it wasn't Davis fault, yet in Beast he flat out calls him a murderer, while Clark should know the reason why does murders were made in the first place. Maybe the reason that Clark just called him a casual murderer, is one of the reasons why Chloe didn't ask for his help plus she's afraid of what would happen if they met again. Would Davis change again? Cause you spoke of bad writing... Maybe the love he feels for Chloe and her presence stops him from changing, however maybe the hate he feels for Clark and his presence is stronger than that... Seeings how he changed pretty fast, is another reason Chloe doesn't want Clark's help, cause how could she under those circumstances bring them together?

Didn’t he say “We could’ve been brothers.”? But I know what you mean. I thought his line was off. I mean, both of them. There’re so many inconsistency in their storytelling and characterization if you ask me. But we’ll have to *interpret* one way or the other, right? But when everything is said and done, I still think Chloe could ask him to help Davis at the end of the episode, since she might have a ‘key’ in her DNA to calm the beast. And Clark also saw what kind of effect she has on Davis. But running off with a serial killer instead (I’m still ignoring the Doomsday part here) was the worst idea for Chloe, imo.

[Denegation 15]

Thanks, Robert. I respect everyone’s opinions too, we’re just disagreeing on this topic that’s all. That’s the beauty of the forum, right? ;)

Instead of quoting the post, I list up the part where we disagree or see things differently this time.

■ You think Davis has a conscious and knows right or wrong. I think not. Because if he knows what’s right, killing people for whatever reason is NOT right, imo.

■ You said Davis deserves a 2nd chance, but this means after serving 20 to 30 years of prison time atoning his crime, right? And you think PZ is a bad idea, so where you think is a good idea for Davis?

■ You think Davis is trying to make the right choices. I disagree. Making the right choices would be trying to take responsibility for the crimes he committed, NOT seek happiness with a girl he loves and just walk away with her, especially when he knows he could be dangerous to her as well. JMO

Lastly…..



This is exactly what Clark tried to do in ‘Eternal’. He asked Chloe not to pull the lever (= NOT to kill Davis) and offered helping hands. But he couldn’t because Chloe pulled the lever. We don’t know the consequences afterwards if he weren’t killed because he was about to transform into DD even though there was Chloe (= sloppy writing? :rolleyes:) but the fact still remains that Clark was ready to help Davis.

And if Clark knew Davis came back from the dead and now immune to Kryptonite, I’m also sure that he’d still try to help IF Davis had come to him for a help. Davis called him his ‘Kryptonian brother’, and also knows he’s ready to help. In my personal view, Clark was left without a choice. Because how Clark could try to help Davis if he was lead to believe Davis was dead in the first place? How he could try to talk things out with Chloe and Oliver looking for options when one of them was harboring him in her basement without telling him he was alive? And then left town with him? And now I think it’s hard to talk to Oliver for ‘another option’ when he almost became Davis’s next victim himself.

All in all, I don’t understand why you guys think it’s Clark - out of all people -, who is not fair on this matter.
I see your point. In my eyes, Clark was about to help but then turned back in 'Beast.'
Well, people with consciousness still do wrong. And Davis was killing to stop the beast. If he has to kill, he decided small number to not let out DD.

And yes, prison is an option but not when criminals are at risk of dying.

[Davis Bloome]

Are you saying killing people is his best choice because to kill one people each time instead of 100 people is better? How about kill no one?

Let’s just think Doomsday and Davis as separate entities and pretend Davis is only Davis (i.e. human). He’d still be a serial killer, isn’t he? If he killed 50 people, he needs to be locked up. Period. You and Robert talk about his 2nd chance and he ‘deserves’ another option etc, but what about those who got killed by Davis? Where is 2nd chance for the drunken driver for example? Those criminals who got killed brutally by Davis wouldn’t have deserved another option than getting squashed? Whether or not he is Doomsday, with the crime he has committed as Davis Bloom alone should put him in the prison. JMOYeah despite good intentions in his killings, after all it was done to stop more killings. If Davis didn't kill, his alter self DD would just kill more. I see them as one entity, but a person with a split personality, kind of. Davis knows that his other personality DD is far more dangerous than Davis his own personality, so he doesn't want to be responsible for hundreds of deaths, so if taking one life stops his other personality to take over... Well he just thought that was in his situation the best option. But the sad thing is, you can't bring him to justice with a legal system on earth, cause he would just escape from every prison and, even though I'm against the death penalty even that wouldn't help since it would only make him stronger.



Freeze him and leave him where exactly? Since you are so worried that he might get hurt by other phantoms or prisoners if he was put in PZ, what about the possibility of him having an arterial ruptures? Or permanent brain damages? Don’t you worry about that? Davis/Doomsday could die by getting frozen also, you know. In the fortress of course, Clark was perfectly fine in the time he was frozen in and he couldn't escape. True DD did escape, but that was because Brainiac had control over the fortress and when they made him disappear from Chloe's body (sorry english isn't my first language, but you know what I mean) he probably lost control and DD could free himself.

As for the rest yeah I think Clark could have helped, but I think it's too late anyway now. And yeah I don't agree either with Chloe running of. If both Clark and Chloe eased off on each other a little and Chloe became more rational on the matter, maybe there would still be hope to save Davis from the beast, find a solution a cure that could help him to stop the beast to appear. But I think we all now that's not going to happen.:)

[Joanna]

I do not find Clark selfish because he might care more about the ones he love. People are made this way, no matter how hard they try to feel otherwise. Besides, it would be different with Lana or Chloe etc. They were born humans, good people and Clark knows about it. Just as he knows that Davis was not born human. He struggled to be good but the was created to be the beast. And he cannot fight it. Even with Chloe. Let's take a look at "Stiletto", where he kills AJ. As Doomsday. He transformed despite Chloes proximity. True, he wanted to save her. But he did not have to change into Doomsday in order to do that. He didn't have to kill and eat AJ or whatever he does to his victims (nothing nice judging by the bags Chloe was throwing out). That is why I don't believe Chloe can save Doomy. Is he going to kill every person that will threaten her in the future?
Besides, let's not forget that Clark believed in saving Davis in eternal. Yet, judging by recent developments, he lost this faith.
Yet, I may not be objective, since I always defend Clark ;)

[Davis Bloome]

Besides, let's not forget that Clark believed in saving Davis in eternal. Yet, judging by recent developments, he lost this faith.And judging by what happened between 'Eternal' and 'Beast' he lost it pretty fast, I just wonder why...

[bigblueplanet]

Yeah despite good intentions in his killings,

Right there, I have an issue already. I don’t believe in ‘good intentions in killing’ no matter what. And I know Superman don’t, either.


after all it was done to stop more killings. If Davis didn't kill, his alter self DD would just kill more. I see them as one entity, but a person with a split personality, kind of. Davis knows that his other personality DD is far more dangerous than Davis his own personality, so he doesn't want to be responsible for hundreds of deaths, so if taking one life stops his other personality to take over... Well he just thought that was in his situation the best option.

Are you a Superman fan? It’s okay if you’re not b/c each of us watch the show for different reasons. Tbh, I feel sorry for Davis fans because I feel like there are many SV fans who have been invested in his character as a good guy. I know we (as in Mythos fan) are more or less biased because the moment we hear the name ‘Doomsday’, automatically we fear for Clark. But I realized there’re quite some people who come to root for Davis Bloom and keep wishing that he would be somehow saved in the end.

And it’s true. He was introduced as a sympathetic character at first. But for me, Davis in ‘Eternal’ and ‘Beast’ are two different characters already. This is what Neal (one of the reviewers at Superman Homepage) wrote:



Logical: RING RING!

"Hello?"

"Clark, it's Davis. Turned out I survived somehow. I feel terrible for what I'm doing, and what I've done. Help me find a way to die."

"That sounds consistent with your character as displayed so far!"

"I know, huh?"

As hilarious as it sounds, it’s so true. What changed his mind? Is it because Chloe had told him that she would do anything for him? (Much contrast to ‘Infamous’ where she told him “I won’t do anything for you” and Garrrrrr, he hulk out into Doomsday.) Davis was once a good guy and a hero (paramedic and later sacrifices his own life for the greater good) but sadly this ill-fated tragic guy cease to exist in my eyes and all what is left now is his inevitable, impending fate to become Doomsday.

[Davis Bloome]

Well I'm a superman fan, but I don't think I'm a hardcore superman fan, though not to be arrogant I do think I'm a hardcore smallville fan, but it seems if I compare my opinions to other members, I have a different opinion of what Smallville is about.

As a smallville fan, a Clark fan (you might think I'm not cause of some critizism I have given him I know) and a Davis fan. I just hope he doesn't get to die like a punk as Samuel L. Jackson said about his death in Star Wars. I like Davis so I would like a heroic death or at least some redemption for his character, but that's all I can ask for, cause I know he's doomed and it doesn't make me sad or anything cause I know it's meant to be. I'm not expecting some Disney ending where Davis lives together happily ever after with Chloe, and that DD is dead or gone forever. And the change in Davis. Well it's either Deep love, or just obsession. Or it can be both lol. That is what changed his mind, or has it been changed truly? Maybe he thinks a life without Chloe is a crueler fate than death. Besides he was changing in Doomsday so his decision not to go into the PZ, was not imo fully made by only Davis, but partially by the beast as you could see he was transforming, if you noticed the change of eyes too before he said to Clark he should have a plan B, cause he refused to go?

[bigblueplanet]

Well I'm a superman fan, but I don't think I'm a hardcore superman fan, though not to be arrogant I do think I'm a hardcore smallville fan, but it seems if I compare my opinions to other members, I have a different opinion of what Smallville is about.
As a smallville fan, a Clark fan (you might think I'm not cause of some critizism I have given him I know) and a Davis fan.

Thanks for answering my question. :) But no, it’s not because your criticism towards Clark that makes me think you might not be one, but it’s because your POV regarding the ‘To kill or not to kill’ issue. I find that usually general Superman fans are against the idea of killing. Not ‘all’ of them of course but generally speaking. Because as I say repeatedly in the Beast threads, it is after all, an essential tenet at the core of Superman and if you’re a fan of the character, you must be aware of that. Also as it was addressed in ‘Legion’, (i.e. the number one rule in Legion code from that time on is ”Preserve life at all costs”), you can see it’s a big deal in the DC universe.

ETA: I'm not only talking about Superman character here but his universe.

I highly respect their principles for not letting their heroes to take lives no matter who he/she is and no matter which planet they come from. But before I go too far off-topic, I’ll stop here and focus on the topic in our hands.


I just hope he doesn't get to die like a punk as Samuel L. Jackson said about his death in Star Wars. I like Davis so I would like a heroic death or at least some redemption for his character, but that's all I can ask for, cause I know he's doomed and it doesn't make me sad or anything cause I know it's meant to be. I'm not expecting some Disney ending where Davis lives together happily ever after with Chloe, and that DD is dead or gone forever. And the change in Davis. Well it's either Deep love, or just obsession. Or it can be both lol. That is what changed his mind, or has it been changed truly? Maybe he thinks a life without Chloe is a crueler fate than death.

It’s just my spec, but I start to think it might have something to do with Brainiac. But after watching the trailer for the season finale, I’m not so sure… Well, in either case, we'll find out soon enough. ;)


Besides he was changing in Doomsday so his decision not to go into the PZ, was not imo fully made by only Davis, but partially by the beast as you could see he was transforming, if you noticed the change of eyes too before he said to Clark he should have a plan B, cause he refused to go?

Yes, I saw his red eyes but when Chloe showed up it seemed like he momentarily lost his power and looked very weak. It was perfect chance for Clark to take him into PZ. Just ignore Chloe or better yet say ‘Thank you!’ to her and throw him into it. Job done! And if she accused Clark that he’d never forgive himself, he could just say, “I’m fine, really.” :lol: But then again, in that case, there’s no more plot for two more episodes to fill in. lol

In all seriousness, I agree with what Joanna said (#77). Our topic here is whether or not Clark would send Lana into PZ if she were the beast. But since we can’t compare logically (b/c of the obvious reasons), let’s say if it were Chloe when she was possessed by Brainiac. In that case I have no doubt that Clark never gave up on her and PZ option never even crossed his mind, imo. Because he loves her very much. And for me THIS is what makes him more human. But I don't think "selfishness which comes from desires, feelings" that makes Davis decide who to kill (post #73) makes him human. JMO

[xrayvision]

Well, if one of Clark's friends was Doomsday, Clark would have realized it much sooner and would have had much longer to help them. I also think there is a huge possibility that once he found out about the murders, he would have severed his connection with any such friend. He would probably have even stayed away from them if he saw such a friend acting weird & having blackouts. Or perhaps Clark would be long dead since there would have been a showdown much earlier before Clark was ready to take on such a Doomsday friend.

Regardless, his reaction would not have been like Chloe's and he would do anything in his power to keep such a friend away from humans, no matter how bad he felt for his friend.

[Davis Bloome]

Well I'm against killing too and that's something I find admirable in Superman, but also a bit naive to be honest. It depends in what universe I guess. Especially in movies it's unrealistic that a hero can keep himself to the ethic of no killings. These days anyway, cause Batman killed in the Burton movies which fans were strongly against. And while Batman said "I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you!"... Well sorry but I find that a cheap excuse to let the man die. He's still responsible for his death, cause after all he let him die. So the villain always has to die, though they solved it pretty nicely in The Dark Knight I must admit, though Batman did cause two-face to die. I think this is why Superman Returns was not so succesful, at least that was one of its reasons. People want darker grittier films. And yeah the same applies for some tv-shows. If you don't kill the villain, the hero often comes off as a wimp and I hear that a lot coming from smallville fans as criticism for Clark, saying he can't make his own choices etc. While I don't agree with his choice of the PZ, I don't disagree with his choice that he doesn't want to kill, hence why I thought freezing might be a good option, cause in that way he doesn't kill Davis either.

About Selfishness, study of human behaviour show that it does come from desires, feelings. Take Lex for example, his desire to be powerful make him selfish. Davis is selfish because of Chloe. His desire to be with her and that pushed him to choose Oli, cause he knew how much Jimmy meant to Chloe and he knew that would have a bad impact on their relationship, and that is why his choice was selfish.

[bigblueplanet]

^^^
Oh boy. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on almost everything! lol

Why can’t you give Clark a break by the way? He gave Davis what he wanted. = A solution that would allow Davis to pay for his crimes and take responsibility. There’s a risk he might get killed by phantoms or other criminals if he would be powerless in PZ? Maybe, but that’s what he wanted, wasn’t it? To end his misery and tortured soul. It was his own wish to get killed per ‘Eternal’. It was perfect opportunity if you look at it from Davis’s POV. So why you turn it around and blame Clark when it was all what Davis wished for in the first place? :confused:

[Davis Bloome]

I think that's best yeah, agree to disagree, I mean we were debating, I wasn't trying to convince you or making you change your opinion, while I know I most likely won't change mine lol.

It's not that I blame Clark, but like I said he could have put a little more effort in it, cause he seems to have changed his opinion pretty quick with no explanation. Eternal, "We could have been brothers!" Beast: "I'm sorry Davis I was wrong!", "He's a murderer!"

And I don't agree with the fact that he gave Davis what he wanted. He presented a potential solution for Doomsday, but not for Davis. Besides I think Davis should take responsabiltiy for his own actions, but not the actions of Doomsday and it's DD who should be send to the PZ, not Davis, but unfortunately you can't split them apart. Or can you with black K? I duno...
And I agree Davis changed his mind too, but at least we get an explanation why. For his love of Chloe, but why did Clark change his...

[bigblueplanet]

I think that's best yeah, agree to disagree, I mean we were debating, I wasn't trying to convince you or making you change your opinion, while I know I most likely won't change mine lol.

I’m not trying to convince you or anyone else either but I’m always ready to change mine if someone gives me a good reason to. I was talking about your general ideas about how to make good TV shows, the reason why SR failed etc. But let’s not dwell on that, we’re not on the right thread. :p


It's not that I blame Clark, but like I said he could have put a little more effort in it, cause he seems to have changed his opinion pretty quick with no explanation.

But you did agree with me that he would have if he was given the opportunity. One possible explanation would be, b/c Davis decided to hide his existence and kept killing people? After all, he did try to kill his friend (who is not criminal but also a friend of Chloe).


Eternal, "We could have been brothers!" Beast: "I'm sorry Davis I was wrong!", "He's a murderer!"

Eternal: "It's not always about where your heart is. It's about what you've done and what you're about to do.” Beast: “A world without Chloe? You’d better have a plan B cos I’m not losing her.” Do you blame Clark? Fine. I’ll blame inconsistent writing.


And I don't agree with the fact that he gave Davis what he wanted. He presented a potential solution for Doomsday, but not for Davis. Besides I think Davis should take responsabiltiy for his own actions, but not the actions of Doomsday and it's DD who should be send to the PZ, not Davis, but unfortunately you can't split them apart. Or can you with black K? I duno...

This part is remained to be seen in season finale, imo. If they could separate the two, then Davis can go to prison on earth.


And I agree Davis changed his mind too, but at least we get an explanation why. For his love of Chloe, but why did Clark change his...

In my eyes, Davis clearly loves Chloe in ‘Eternal’ too. If anything, I think it’s Chloe’s feelings for Davis (even if it was fake & pretending to make him think so on her part ) that changed his mind. JMO

[Davis Bloome]

But you did agree with me that he would have if he was given the opportunity. One possible explanation would be, b/c Davis decided to hide his existence and kept killing people? After all, he did try to kill his friend (who is not criminal but also a friend of Chloe). Yes that's something I DO agree with:)



Eternal: "It's not always about where your heart is. It's about what you've done and what you're about to do.” Beast: “A world without Chloe? You’d better have a plan B cos I’m not losing her.” Do you blame Clark? Fine. I’ll blame inconsistent writing.
If you don't mind I'd like to add something:

Eternal: Davis: "It's not always about where your heart is. It's about what you've done and what you're about to do.” Beast: Davis, partially possessed by DD as the red eyes indicate: “A world without Chloe? You’d better have a plan B cos I’m not losing her.”

[xrayvision]

The thing that really bothers me is that this is very inconsistent to the way Clark was handled in the past. In the past Clark tried to stop criminals from the Phantom Zone and felt bad if they died, but he didn't try to kill them. They didn't stress the issue to make him look bad. They had him first act to stop the criminal from killing. Sometimes he directly killed the criminal like Gloria in Wither, and other times he did something to them that caused them to die, but it was the criminal's fault. This happened with Titan when he was impaled by his own weapon after landing on it.

What bothered me was that Clark killed Wes Keenan who was a human and was mind controlled to kill people. It wasn't even part of his own (currently) hidden nature to kill as is the case with Davis.

It bothers me that with Doomsday he's shown having more reservations than he was shown having in the past. Especially when he knows any death with Doomsday will be only temporary, while Wes Keenan, who Clark killed without a 2nd thought, was not able to resurrect himself.

My problem is that they're writing Clark to be a conflicted & naive person and that he didn't verbally put Oliver in his place by telling him there's no way to kill DD. That way, Ollie's tirade about killing doesn't make Clark look bad & instead makes Ollie look like the moron he truly is (anyone talking like an expert about something he has no idea about is an idiot IMO).

Clark in my opinion did everything right in this episode except for not being verbal with Ollie & allowing himself to be shocked enough to let Chloe & Davis get away. Because the guilt tripping Chloe did to him in the Fortress certainly didn't stick after seeing his angry reaction at the end and how he told Chloe he would not stop looking for them.

[halvor311]

None of his friends were sent to earth to kill him. So I can understand why he would send Davis to the Phantom Zone, and I think he would send Lana or Chloe to the Phantom Zone if there was no other choice. And there might not be, though judging from the trailer for the finale it looks like the beast will be out of Davis. Wouldn't it be cool if Davis still had Kryptonian powers and ended up helping Clark fight Doomsday?

[Davis Bloome]

Maybe but I don't think that's going to happen, although I do hope he'll have a chance to redeem himself for the damage he caused. Maybe it's impossible to fully redeem himself, but if he did it partially I would be satisfied and wouldn't mind if he died, though it would be a waste, cause SW is a good actor imo.

[Denegation 15]

He is a good actor. I would be happy if Davis got to stay, but if he comes back as Zod, that would be fine too.

:p