Dollhouse #1.11 "Briar Rose"

[Vergon6]

It starts soon. Hopefully I won't be the only one in the thread this time :p.

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Looks like an interesting episode so far. Although no Alpha yet.

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Haha, they put Dominic in Victor's body lol

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Alpha tried to contact Dominic from the sounds of it.

[Vergon6]

This fight just won't stop.

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And as predicted, Alan Tudyk is Alpha. He just did to Victor what he did to the doctor.

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Alpha is a creepy psychopath as expected.

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Woah that season finale looks intense. It's basically a two-part finale.

[bizzaroboy9]

i loved this episode a lot! i didn't see that scene coming where alan is actually alpha. i loved sierra as a csi person lol

[Vergon6]

i loved this episode a lot! i didn't see that scene coming where alan is actually alpha. i loved sierra as a csi person lol
Yeah that was good. I heard rumors that Alan's character was supposed to be really Alpha. But it's one of those things that you may know is coming, but are left in suspense on when it's actually going to happen.

[devilneedsaride]

Oh my...

I did NOT see the Tudyk Alpha thing coming. What did he just imprint Echo with? Tudyk does a really great psychopath!

This whole episode had me riveted from start to finish.:eek:

[Hopefulsuicide]

Wow... wow... wow...

That episode was just so full of twists. I loved Victor as Dominic, they really are showing how petrifying the Dollhouse is (I guess a character can never really stay gone in Dollhouse now, even if the actors aren't available)

The clip for next weeks episode has me peeing in my pants, and so I'm not gonna say much more until after that :) I just wanna know what's gonna happen to Paul! Are they gonna make him a Doll?

P.s. Ballard is a complete Idiot for just waltzing in there, not really knowing anything about the Dollhouse, and trying to take a Doll out of there...

[weemanwise]

This was an amazing episode, I can't wait until next week to see what happens.

[Superboy-Prime]

Hmmmm I dont get something, Okay so they're now saying the dollhouse was underground. But like two episodes ago Echo had Dominic hanging out the window of Adeles office which was several stories up. Adeles office overlooks the rest of the dollhouse so how is it underground.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Hmmmm I dont get something, Okay so they're now saying the dollhouse was underground. But like two episodes ago Echo had Dominic hanging out the window of Adeles office which was several stories up. Adeles office overlooks the rest of the dollhouse so how is it underground.

very good point... really dunno how to excuse that :lol:

[weemanwise]

Hmmmm I dont get something, Okay so they're now saying the dollhouse was underground. But like two episodes ago Echo had Dominic hanging out the window of Adeles office which was several stories up. Adeles office overlooks the rest of the dollhouse so how is it underground.

The dollhouse is underground and Adele's office is in the building above the Dollhouse. Adele's office does not overlook the dollhouse, she has cameras which she views by computer, I think you are thinking of Topher's office and imprint chair area.

[Xanderman]

9/10 - I didn't particularly care for the B plot with Echo and the young girl (thought they should have stuck to the main story only, especially so near to the end of the season, but anyway) but the rest of the episode was great. Thanks in large part to Alan Tudyk (Firefly's Wash), he was really great (and hilarious) in this. So different from his "Wash" character, great range, I was surprised (the mark of a great actor). But I was disappointed (in myself) for already knowing going in that he would be Alpha--my fault for reading spoilers/rumors I guess. That said, it was still fun to see when and how the reveal would happen, as David said.

Besides Tudyk's performance, as with Becky I thought the Victor actor did a hilariously good job impersonating the actor who portrayed Dominic, he sounded just like him at times. lol The Victor actor has great range and is very good at playing different characters, it's easy to see why he got cast as a doll. Whereas many have complained that Eliza often seems the same no matter what/who she's supposed to be, it's nice to see the same isn't true for all the doll actors.

I liked the bit where Kepler/Alpha talked to Ballard about taking some time to prepare first, like getting some rope, because rope is always good. And then later, Ballard could have used some rope. lol

Besides Tudyk's characters' scenes, I really enjoyed Ballard in this. My favorite scene:

Paul: "Oh God, I know that guy. Lubov!":lol: "My whole life...my whole life isn't real."

BINGO, Nowhere Man! lol Doll Ballard is finally starting to catch on....he's almost there. (It really makes no sense for him to be as obsessed with Caroline/the Dollhouse as he is unless he was programmed to be...so I'm still holding on to the Paul=doll possibility/probability.)

Another favorite line/scene:

Kepler/Alpha: "This is like one of those buddy cop movies where you're the hard-nosed agent, and I'm the guy who hates buddy cop movies!!" :lol: (Tudyk delivered that line hilariously)


Finally, this episode mentioned something called "The Center", for which Topher remarked "Is that the Dollhouse HQ? I've always wondered!" Whereas me, I've always wondered when this series was ever going to stop ripping off The Pretender.:cool: :lol: (among other shows/movies)

Last episode so soon eh? Next week....apparently Fox isn't airing #13 because it only paid for 13, which included an unaired pilot (making #13 actually the 14th produced). Which is so completely stupid of course, but whatever I guess.


Questions:

1. If Frankenstein (Alpha) wanted his bride back, why did he wait for Ballard to find him first? Why did he need Ballard? He could have gotten her back anytime he wanted, especially considering the practically nonexistent/easily bypassed security the Dollhouse has got going.

2. Why didn't Alpha take his precious Echo along with him when he originally left/escaped? Why did he leave her behind?

3. Like I said in #1, what kind of security was that? Only Boyd shows up?? What, do they not want to have to pay for other actors or something? lol It all made the Dollhouse organization seem so small time and pathetic.

4. Since Victor's cuts are supposedly even deeper (as per Alpha), does that mean he's going to be scar-faced even longer than Amy Acker's character was? And if it's REALLY deep, is Victor's face forever ruined? If so, is that the end for his character? lol




Hmmmm I dont get something, Okay so they're now saying the dollhouse was underground. But like two episodes ago Echo had Dominic hanging out the window of Adeles office which was several stories up. Adeles office overlooks the rest of the dollhouse so how is it underground.I see weemanwise has already beat me to it, but yeah I'm guessing the above ground parts of the building (regular offices etc) are part of their cover, and only the actual "dollhouse" is underground (ie. where the dolls live and are imprinted/programmed, etc.).

[kernel_thai]

Finally! That was the kind of ep I was expecting all season. Hope it isnt too late.

[Vergon6]

Kepler/Alpha: "This is like one of those buddy cop movies where you're the hard-nosed agent, and I'm the guy who hates buddy cop movies!!" :lol: (Tudyk delivered that line hilariously)

Yeah that was hilarious lol

[Hopefulsuicide]

3. Like I said in #1, what kind of security was that? Only Boyd shows up?? What, do they not want to have to pay for other actors or something? lol It all made the Dollhouse organization seem so small time and pathetic.

4. Since Victor's cuts are supposedly even deeper (as per Alpha), does that mean he's going to be scar-faced even longer than Amy Acker's character was? And if it's REALLY deep, is Victor's face forever ruined? If so, is that the end for his character? lol



yeah the security was atrocious... Ballard walks right in, and actually wanders around... I don't understand why they only had alpha dress as a doll... There are so many things I dont understand... 1. why did Ballard think he could just wander in, find Echo and wander back out... 2. why did he not take any kind of weapon... 3. why did Boyd not have a weapon 4. there is a whole security team with guns... did they have the night off or something? Or did Boyd just not think it was a big enough problem to call them in :lol:

As for Victor, I think he will now be a scar face, which is seriously going to affect his future engagements... every single one will have to be programmed with the trauma of having their face cut up, and that's gonna be hard to deal with

Other questions:

-is anyone else really really hoping that Adelle will make Paul and doll... I wanna see him wandering around in those pyjamas :p

-why is he so irrationally obsessed with Caroline... I mean he saw one picture of her, and has had a message from her... but why would he make it his mission to save ONLY her... it's weird

-what the heck did Alpha imprint Echo with... and why does it have to be Echo... why can't he just put the imprint in anyone... very very confusing

-I hope they kill off caroline :lol: which it looks like they might have imprinted Echo do!

[devilneedsaride]

-why is he so irrationally obsessed with Caroline... I mean he saw one picture of her, and has had a message from her... but why would he make it his mission to save ONLY her... it's weird


I know, that's really weird. At first the obsession made some kind of sense because she was his only real human connection to the Dollhouse and he wanted to get her out, but now he's going in to save only her and very pointedly NOT saving November? You'd think that if he had a strong connection to any of the dolls it would be the one he slept with (yuck!). I'm not quite buying the Caroline obsession.

[Xanderman]

As for Victor, I think he will now be a scar face, which is seriously going to affect his future engagements... every single one will have to be programmed with the trauma of having their face cut up, and that's gonna be hard to deal withIn that case I think his character's going to be written out. I just can't see the show keeping a permanently scarred character/doll around. So Victor's out, unless he goes through a long healing process like Acker's character did, which I highly doubt they will repeat.


why is he so irrationally obsessed with Caroline... I mean he saw one picture of her, and has had a message from her... but why would he make it his mission to save ONLY her... it's weird
I know, that's really weird. At first the obsession made some kind of sense because she was his only real human connection to the Dollhouse and he wanted to get her out, but now he's going in to save only her and very pointedly NOT saving November? You'd think that if he had a strong connection to any of the dolls it would be the one he slept with (yuck!). I'm not quite buying the Caroline obsession.Not so weird actually if you've been following any of my rantings over the last few months...lol as I've said, I'd say it's because he was either programmed to be obsessed with her/the Dollhouse, or he had a past with Caroline that has been erased from his memories (so either way his mind's been messed with). But of course, the "soul" doesn't forget, and all that jazz. In which case, one might conclude that Paul could be part of a greater Dollhouse experiment, connected to their real purpose. In other words, Paul is Nowhere Man. lol Or it could be more like Dark City.


is anyone else really really hoping that Adelle will make Paul and doll...On your speculation thread someone brought up the possibility of Paul becoming Echo's new handler, which I can see happening, especially since he's no longer with the Bureau, Boyd is head of security, and his initial replacement is a nobody character. Turning Paul into a doll by force is another possibility too...although it would be overkill if he's already one. heh


why does it have to be Echo... why can't he just put the imprint in anyoneBecause Echo is the only doll remaining he hasn't cut up. :lol: Seriously, my guess is he fell in love with a past Echo imprint from a past engagement back before he lost it. And he associates that imprint with Caroline's body/face specifically (he wants the complete package--including the hot body--so shallow. lol) Sort of reminds me of The Mummy, where the villain was trying to resurrect his great love to live again (especially with her calling him "her prince"). Maybe Loony Tunes designed himself the perfect woman, and she's it.


I hope they kill off caroline:lol:

[Welling_is_pretty]

I thought the Victor actor did a hilariously good job impersonating the actor who portrayed Dominic, he sounded just like him at times. lol The Victor actor has great range and is very good at playing different characters, it's easy to see why he got cast as a doll.
That would be Enver Gjokaj, who I have become a very big fan of so I hope that he stays on after Alpha's attack on his face. And yeah, he's great, isn't he?


Paul: "Oh God, I know that guy. Lubov!":lol: "My whole life...my whole life isn't real."
That was great! Made me laugh.

Did anyone else notice Topher saying "Frak?" When he's talking to Ivy, I think, he says it. Nice. I wonder what Tahmoh said when he read that in the script?! LOL



1. If Frankenstein (Alpha) wanted his bride back, why did he wait for Ballard to find him first? Why did he need Ballard? He could have gotten her back anytime he wanted, especially considering the practically nonexistent/easily bypassed security the Dollhouse has got going.
Good point but I think it was because it was a 2 person job. He needed someone to keep security busy while he took out the computers and then found Echo. Which Paul did, of course.


2. Why didn't Alpha take his precious Echo along with him when he originally left/escaped? Why did he leave her behind?
Something I've wondered about myself!


3. Like I said in #1, what kind of security was that? Only Boyd shows up?? What, do they not want to have to pay for other actors or something? lol It all made the Dollhouse organization seem so small time and pathetic.
When Boyd finds Ballard he makes a comment about how he could have roused the whole house and brought security down on him but that he wanted to give him a chance to let this all go and just leave. Then Alpha takes out the rest of the house through the computer. So yeah, at first they don't know because Boyd keeps them out of the loop then they are all sleepytime from Alpha's work.


4. Since Victor's cuts are supposedly even deeper (as per Alpha), does that mean he's going to be scar-faced even longer than Amy Acker's character was? And if it's REALLY deep, is Victor's face forever ruined? If so, is that the end for his character? lol
As I said above, I REALLY hope not. I want Enver to stay on!


As for the Alpha reveal, unfortunately I knew about it already. I went to Ausiello and there it was blaring at me (kinda stupid of me to go since he always posts spoilers). So the big reveal I was all "meh" on.
I actually wish the Alpha stuff was over. I want to get back to the other stuff. We still haven't found out who the "spy" is in the Dollhouse (not Dominic, the one using Echo and November to send Ballard messages)!

[InactiveUserID]

they had to have the B plot with the girl so they could use it to comment on Ballard rescuing his princess from the Dollhouse as the little girl rereads the story on the overlay audio.

And the circular twist is that Echo is the princess he's rescuing but she's the rescuer of the girl in the other plot. Then you've got Alpha trying to rescue his own sleeping princess. So it all swirls around quite nicely and ads to the heartbeat of the story or whatever.

[Vergon6]

they had to have the B plot with the girl so they could use it to comment on Ballard rescuing his princess from the Dollhouse as the little girl rereads the story on the overlay audio.

And the circular twist is that Echo is the princess he's rescuing but she's the rescuer of the girl in the other plot. Then you've got Alpha trying to rescue his own sleeping princess. So it all swirls around quite nicely and ads to the heartbeat of the story or whatever.
Right. It's a nice framing device. I am glad it wasn't used as an A plot though.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Did anyone else notice that Victor was looking straight at Dr. Saunders when he said, "Whiskey?" That definitely adds credence to the theory that she is a doll.

[Xanderman]

Good point but I think it was because it was a 2 person job. He needed someone to keep security busy while he took out the computers and then found Echo. Which Paul did, of course.True enough, still it seemed like an overly complicated plan. Luring and tricking Paul the way he did. It's like he wanted or needed Paul specifically. Perhaps he intended on Paul getting caught? Might lend some credence to the "Paul is Alpha's personal doll" possibility I've mentioned before. Or maybe that Alpha is aware that Paul is special/programmed (even if not by him), and this is connected to the reason Paul was chosen/used.


When Boyd finds Ballard he makes a comment about how he could have roused the whole house and brought security down on him but that he wanted to give him a chance to let this all go and just leave. Then Alpha takes out the rest of the house through the computer. So yeah, at first they don't know because Boyd keeps them out of the loop then they are all sleepytime from Alpha's work. Ah, okay. Missed that comment I guess. Still, this implies Boyd is directly monitoring cameras/security systems himself (he doesn't sleep?)--there should be some other lower level security people to do this, no? He's the head of security, he should be managing things and not be the only one monitoring. Makes the operation seem sort of small-time. (Unless they were saying that lower level people missed the signs of intrusion, but being the badass head of security he is, it didn't get by him--like he's the Odo of the Dollhouse. heh Odo's from Deep Space 9)


We still haven't found out who the "spy" is in the Dollhouse (not Dominic, the one using Echo and November to send Ballard messages)!The most likely or obvious suspects are either the doctor or Topher's assistant I'm sure most would agree. That said, it will probably be someone else entirely, since these guys are the more obvious choices (maybe a split personality of Topher's, programmed into him by Alpha? I know, reaching). Also, as I've said I'm not sure this inside person is actually a member of some resistance or opposition--it could be a Dollhouse ploy to re-capture Alpha, through Ballard, who might also be a dollhouse creation made for that purpose. If that's the case though, that plan sort of sucked and has failed, given that Ballard brought him right to them and Alpha still managed to walk out with Echo.


Did anyone else notice that Victor was looking straight at Dr. Saunders when he said, "Whiskey?" That definitely adds credence to the theory that she is a doll.Not sure what you mean...can you expand on that? I haven't seen the ep in a while so you'll need to refresh me on the connections you're making.

[Shadowlord367]

I was really pleased with the way that this episode incorporated all the characters. The show hasn't really had that "ensemble" feel for the rest of the season leading up to this episode, so it was nice to finally see it.

I thought Victor and Sierra both did particularly well with their imprints, and giving Echo the same imprint as the little girl was interesting. Also a cool twist that Alpha turned out to be Briar Rose rather than Paul.

I also liked Claire and Topher's roles in the episode, and seeing Claire confront Alpha was very cool.

The showdown bewteen Boyd and Paul was awesome, especially because of how conflicted Boyd has been on the morality of the Dollhouse.

Quite an interesting twist that that guy was Alpha, did not see that coming.

[Fat Elvis 007]

Not sure what you mean...can you expand on that? I haven't seen the ep in a while so you'll need to refresh me on the connections you're making.

"Whiskey" is a military code name, just like Echo, Sierra, Victor, and November. After being uploaded with Dominic, Victor is begging for mercy and addresses Adelle and Topher by name, then looks straight at Claire and says "whiskey." She seems confused and says he wants a drink, and Adelle whispers something into Boyd's ear. He obviously wasn't asking for a drink. Whiskey must be Claire's Doll name, and she doesn't seem to know that she is one.

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I was really pleased with the way that this episode incorporated all the characters. The show hasn't really had that "ensemble" feel for the rest of the season leading up to this episode, so it was nice to finally see it.


I thought "Man on the Street," "Needs," and "A Spy in the House of Love" all had an ensemble feel. I think that the show is best when it spread the attention out equally, rather than centering completely on Echo, who I find the least interesting character on the show.

[Welling_is_pretty]

Ah, okay. Missed that comment I guess. Still, this implies Boyd is directly monitoring cameras/security systems himself (he doesn't sleep?)--there should be some other lower level security people to do this, no? He's the head of security, he should be managing things and not be the only one monitoring. Makes the operation seem sort of small-time. (Unless they were saying that lower level people missed the signs of intrusion, but being the badass head of security he is, it didn't get by him--like he's the Odo of the Dollhouse. heh Odo's from Deep Space 9)
I suppose it's that Boyd is new to being head of security and so feels he needs to personally look over everyone and everything right now. He's hyper alert and aware right now. Or he was checking up on Echo (he does seem to still be feeling protective of her) and happened to see Ballard and Alpha.
We saw that there are security "minions" in the Dollhouse (A Spy in the House of love showed us that) but I'm sure that Boyd's not used to his position yet.


The most likely or obvious suspects are either the doctor or Topher's assistant I'm sure most would agree. That said, it will probably be someone else entirely, since these guys are the more obvious choices (maybe a split personality of Topher's, programmed into him by Alpha? I know, reaching). Also, as I've said I'm not sure this inside person is actually a member of some resistance or opposition--it could be a Dollhouse ploy to re-capture Alpha, through Ballard, who might also be a dollhouse creation made for that purpose. If that's the case though, that plan sort of sucked and has failed, given that Ballard brought him right to them and Alpha still managed to walk out with Echo.
I agree that the most obvious suspect is Claire. (especially after the "Whiskey" comment. If she's a programmable Doll that makes her all the better as a spy!) I don't see Ivy as the one though.

I do think that whoever it is they are working for someone else, perhaps outside the Dollhouse or perhaps working from within.

[lorenzovanmatterhorn]

BRIAR ROSE

The good;
Totally had me fooled with Alpha (partly because his agorophobic uber-geek and Ballard makes such a great team). Stunning performance on both counts. You really feel for Mellie when Ballard dumps her. Great performance from the actress who plays the little girl too. Dominic asking for 'Whiskey' is a masterful bit of foreshadowing and Ballard is one smart cookie with his plan (but not as much as you-know-who).

The bad;
Alpha's plan seems unecessarily complicated? Ballard says he doesn't have a badge any more but then he shows one to 'Kepler' (did he swipe Loomis'?)

Best line;
Adele; "There's indignation enough for everyone to have seconds"
reprogrammed Echo upon seeing Alpha
"My prince"

Packing heat; Both Boyd and Ballard with their pistols again. Ballard also uses a stungun on Topher.
Echo;6
Boyd; 7
Dominic; 7
Sierra; 3
Victor; 2
Ballard; 8

Echo kissage;2
She plants a big old smackaroo on Alpha, so much so it cuts her lip

Kinky dinky;

Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost;
Echo; 3 definite, 1 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1
Sierra 1 possible
Topher; 1 possible

How'd they get away with that?
Watching Alpha slicing up Victor is HORRIBLE! The little girl's plight is also horrific but at least she has a chance to recover. Also hard to watch Ballard cruelly dumping Mellie and her near suicide. Plus Alpha's recycled urine.

This weeks fantasy;
Topher has made Echo into a grown up, healthy version of the damaged little girl in order to counsel her, Alpha turns her into a white trash princess. Sierra is a CSI girl (her technobabble may be a subtle joke on them). Victor is Dominic

Total number personalitites;
Echo; 19
Sierra; 9
Victor; 6
November; 2

Total dolls; add Alpha so 7
Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango, Alpha

Addy is a bit British;

Topher is a bit geeky;
He actually uses the phrase 'All frakked up'.

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;
Amanda lets Echo sit near her, not because she trusts her but because she has flicknife concealed on her.

Bondage; Boyd puts Ballard in handcuffs (presumably his own?)
Sierra tied up; 1
Ballard; 1

Knocked out; Toper get's tasered into unconsciousness by Ballard
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1
Topher; 1

Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1

Dolls injured;.
Poor Victor, traumatised by Ballard and Boyd crashing down on top of him and then cut to ribbons by Alpha.

Capt subtext;
Check out the very caring, maternal way Dr Saunders helps Victor who really comes across as a frightened child. The Briar Rose story has a feminist slant on it similar to Buffy, Amanda and Echo prefer the ending where the Briar Rose saves herself. Echo says that Amanda is "Close to moving forwards but it'll hurt" just as she is. Interestingly when Ballard asks Alpha is he Kepler he replies "Well there are a lot of aspects to that question" . He also refers to the Dollhouse as 'The New Eden' which it just might be. He asks Dr Saunders if she always wanted to be a Dr and when she says yes tells her that's a lie.

Happy hookers
The little girl seems to have been exploited as a child prostitute by her mother's boyfriend. All the Dolls in the Dollhouse are above the age of consent but only those we've seen (and only in LA).

Know the face? Alan Tudyk was Wash on Firefly/Serenity
7 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock, Gregg Henry, Alan Tudyk

Guantanamo;
Drugging and torturing Dominic who's on a day trip out of the attic, very hard to watch (great performance from Enver, really nails Reed Diamond in his mannerisms). Sending Echo to help the little girl is everybodys way of living with themselves.

Fanfic;
The adventures of doomed lovers Echo and Alpha disturbingly popular. The little girl's story reminded me of a Buffy fanfic where we learn why Faith is as screwed up as she is and Buffy, Joyce and Dawn help her get over it and adopt her as a new Summers girl Thanks for taking care of my body, Faith!, a Buffy: The Vampire Slayer fanfic - FanFiction.Net (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/3089247/1/Thanks_for_taking_care_of_my_body_Faith)

Missing scenes;.

Reminds me off;

Breaking the programming;

Questions and observations;
So, the headquarters for the whole Dollhouse project is in Tuscon? Can anyone tell me exactly WHY Alpha is hiding naked in a dumpster when he kills the homeless man? Or am I trying to find logic in the actions of a madman? Note when Ballard finally gets into the Dollhouse he says 'It really exists', he'd obviously begun to doubt his own sanity. 'We call that editing' may be a subtle joke on the crew. Alpha thinks the Dollhouse is a good place but with bad people. I hate stairs without risers too, always fear I'm going to fall through them. Note Boyd gives Ballard a way out, he's not going to turn him in if he can help it. Surely consensual slavery is a contradiction in terms, if it's consensual it's not slavery? The Dollhouse we see was only built ten years ago despite the rumours dating from the 80s.

Marks out of 10; 9/10 really good