Would you consider Stilleto a "filler" episode?

[skylar]

No not a filler episode.

[LoveHurts38]

No not a filler episode.


True:D That's why Lois and Clark are on the cover of Smallville's S8 DVD with the DP background.

[9-SOSIHTWB]

It touched on the Doomsday storyline a bit, so I wouldn't say it was a filler!!!

[HeroesUnlimited]

Still haven't read any strong or convincing arguments that this was a filler. Without backing it up with strong points it's a weak argument.

With all due respect, you're seeing only what you want to see then. You're not really here to form an opinion. You're here to justify one. I personally have given plenty of reasons why I think it's a filler and few others here have offered some compelling reasons as well. You obviously disagree and that's fine. But to casually just dimiss what others are saying is well, offensive.


Actually, a few pages back you stated that S1-3 didn't have Lois Lane's character, so you insinuated that the spotlight being taking away from Clark (as it was many times in those seasons by Lex and Lana especially) is only a filler when it's Lois' character that does it.

Can I speak for myself please? It really sounds like you're putting words in my mouth and drawing conclusions which aren't true. The point was raised about "relationships", especially Clark's with Lois and how the show would be "uninteresting" without them. I simply pointed out that Lois wasn't in seasons 1-3 and the show was plenty interesting then. If your point was to say that the show would be uninteresting without ANY relationships (not necessarily just those that involve Lois), then I think that goes without saying.

[Atomic girl]

MOD NOTE: This thread has a lot of rule breaking going on. Please keep the discussion on topic and do not engage people in arguments. If you see a problem post, just report it, DO NOT RESPOND in any way shape or form!

[Promise]

As a Clois fan, I am not easily placated. Most fans of the ship, including myself, do not even want to see romantic Clois on Smallville because we actually want to see the relationship properly developed.





And as a Superman fan, I wanted to see Clois properly develop, but that was ruined because they brought her in early. Lois should of been first introduced this season to be honest, along with bringing Perry back.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----


What kind of episodes do you recommend Lois be in then? What kinds of things should she be doing that would advance her character as well as Clark's character?




The Lois character should of only been used as furture characters, and we had those episodes pre Season 4.

Nothing for Clarks character, other stories would of been created. But for her character, off screensville. Again, Smallville should of kept it at Chole's cousin and when Smalville shifted to the DP, then we would get the intro to Lois Lane.

[ginevrakent]

And as a Superman fan, I wanted to see Clois properly develop, but that was ruined because they brought her in early. Lois should of been first introduced this season to be honest, along with bringing Perry back.

How was Clois ruined because Lois was brought in "early?" Lex was brought in "early," but he was developed just fine. Clois being properly developed, to me, has little to do with how early Lois was brought onto the show. I'm talking about development within the context of the show we've been given by TPTB for several years now, not how the show would have, could have, or should have been different.

This is a discussion about what IS happening and what HAS happened. Stiletto was important to the development of the characters, relationships, and themes that this show has been touching upon for years. You may not like it because you would prefer for Lois and Perry to have been later editions, but then you're essentially saying that the whole premise of Smallville as a prequel that puts a twist on the mythos but ultimately seeks to line up to it is not your cup of tea. Now unless you hold the same standard for Lex, Doomsday, the JL and other characters and plots that have been introduced in this prequel when they don't show up until later in the Superman mythos, I think you are not only operating under a double standard, but you're not dealing with the show we have been given. Within the context of the show as it stands now, Stiletto wasn't a filler.

[Promise]

Then I guess, according to this logic, Promise was an epic fail. Unless, of course, only the characters you like can be developed. The ones you don't like should just disappear.

Umm, Clark was still a huge focus and that is my point overall. Stilleto, he was background and that is why most of Stilleto was a filler in my opinion.

[ginevrakent]

The Lois character should of only been used as furture characters, and we had those episodes pre Season 4.

Nothing for Clarks character, other stories would of been created. But for her character, off screensville. Again, Smallville should of kept it at Chole's cousin and when Smalville shifted to the DP, then we would get the intro to Lois Lane.

Read above. Whether Lois should or should not be a part of Clark's pre-Superman years has little relevance to whether Stiletto is a filler and makes little sense given all of the other departures from the mythos Smallville has done over the years.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


Umm, Clark was still a huge focus and that is my point overall. Stilleto, he was background and that is why most of Stilleto was a filler in my opinion.

Well, I disagree that Clark was the focus in Power (The episode I meant to write in the previous post you included--it originally said Promise. My mistake). However, his character certainly wasn't developed AT ALL in either episode, and that's what we're discussing--character development.

[Promise]

Can you please tell me how Power pushed Clark's story forward in anyways or Clark was the main focus? If Stiletto was a filler, Power was way worse in that reguard. At least with Stiletto if you didn't care for the Story of L&C or the RBB moving forward, you still had the other plot of Chloe and Doomsday pushed in the background and Jimmy as well. Power was 100% about Lana.

I think the perfect example of filler would be episodes like "Ageless" or "Subterranean" where we see nothing of importance to the overall storyline pushed in either, not even a character(let's say like Fierce was for Kara) or relationship(which Stilleto was for L&C) building episode.

As much as I hated Power, I wouldn't consider it "filler" since it did lead to to the Requiem but it definantly added less to the story of this season then any other episode(unless you a Lana fan).

Power pushed the Clana, plus we had to learn to what happen with Lana.

----- Added 6 Minutes later -----


So what was so useful in this episode except for connecting the red blue blur with Lois and make Lois feelings stronger for Clark by pity that he got hurt? Let's put up this scenario which in my opinion could have saved us an extra episode. Warning though there are possible spoilers in it.

Lois gets interested in the murders DD committed and goes after the story herself. She thinks there is no danger in it. Chloe tries to talk her out of it but doesn't succeed. She is overconfident and besides the red-blue blur will probably save her if she does get into trouble, which is a joke she makes but in reality she thinks it is a possibility which just adds more to the story she wants if it happens. Chloe though warns Clark and proposes that he should keep an eye on her. Meanwhile criminals are after revenge for the murders Davis committed. They find him in the apartment and he knocks them out cold before he changes into the monster. But he has difficulty keeping himself under control so he calls Chloe says he has to let them go even if they are criminals. She's stuck in a dilemma cause yes they are criminals and should be taken into custody, but if Davis is keeping them hostage then DD could kill them any moment. Davis agrees to let them go though but he asks Chloe to flee with him from Smallville. Chloe agrees. Meanwhile the criminals escape and knock Davis down. The criminals run downstairs and they run into Lois who just comes to visit Chloe as she is unable to find the killer, (ironically she did find him). Now I'm just making this up as fast as I can so let's say one of the criminals wears a Kryptonite ring. Clark gets in and falls down. The criminals need to flee as fast as they can, but Lois stands in there way. The criminal shoots. Clark jumps and catches the bullet. Chloe runs in Talon too and helps Clark up. The criminals run out of the Talon in the alley where DD awaits them and kills them. Clark when wounded sees DD changing back to Davis as Chloe calms him down. Lois only saw Davis cause she was concentrating too hard on Clark. Chloe then decides to leave the city with Davis as she agreed. Clark is heartbroken because of Chloe's treachery but luckily Lois doesn't know anything. She's just disappointed that she didn't get the story she wanted plus she didn't have the chance to encounter the red blue blur. Then the same happens cause Clark doesn't want to leave her completely disappointed. He contacts her as the RBB. The end

Now I know there might be some holes in it which I could have filled if I had more time to write it, but you got almost two episodes here in one. Cause there was enough space in this episode to fill up with the points of the story of the next episode.

Wow,:eek: you help me appreciate Stilleto, that could of been. But even to add, maybe the title could of been RBB?? or Red because Smallville likes to use one word titles, which at least that has stayed consistent. lol, but good thought process in how you did it.

----- Added 7 Minutes later -----


However, his character certainly wasn't developed AT ALL in either episode, and that's what we're discussing--character development.

and fillers

----- Added 8 Minutes later -----


I don't think we should see it that black and white. Yes it had two scenes that advanced one of the story arcs, but the rest was all just fill up material just to get to those points. I think they could have handled a better scenario to get to those points, cause the rest of the episode is just a waste of space considering the story arcs. That doesn't make it a bad episode, it just means that the rest of the episode was not important for the story arcs.

Exactly.

[ginevrakent]

and fillers.

Yes, we are discussing fillers and according to every operational definition of a "filler," Stiletto simply does not qualify as one. Your defense of your opinion so far has been that it's too soon for Lois to be on the show and that Clark was in the background and not being developed in Stiletto.

Whether or not Lois should or should not have been brought in is arguable, but not when discussing if Stiletto was a filler. She is a character on the show, has been for years, and they are slowly developing her connection to Clark and the RBB from the mythos with episodes like Stiletto making a major contribution.

Clark was developed as a character as well because we got to see him being proactive, being a good moral influence on his friends, being praised as doing well beyond expectations as a reporter for the DP in his first year, and being ready to take a step towards becoming more of a public figure by suggesting a new name for the RBB and talking to a reporter. These are important steps towards Superman, and would not have been seen had they not been included in an episode like Stiletto where Lois, Clark, Clois, the RBB, Chloe, Doomsday, Chlavis, Jimmy, and Intergang were developed.

Think of it this way, in the Pilot Lana asks Clark if he's "man or Superman." In Stiletto we get to see that he is closer than ever to realizing that he doesn't have to choose one or the other. Rather, he can be both man and "Superman," and that Lois Lane will play an important role in his everyday life as an ordinary man working at the DP and giving the name and writing articles about the hero she names Superman.

[bigblueplanet]

If we call this first contact between our Superman and Lois as a ‘filler’, then I don’t know what is NOT a filler in this show. lol

As a Superman fan, I consider the last scene of this episode totally epic and one of the most significant moments in the SV series, because we’ve got;

- A hint of Clark’s new superhero name
- A hint of RBB going public one day
- A hint of Lois’s first article of Superman


Awesome! :D

[AntMagister]

Yeah.. right.
In my opinion the term "filler" has not a negative sense.... i think it consists just in an episode that follows the main plot less than others, but that has anyway a huge importance because let all the other aspects of the season to come out. Without this kind of episodes the universe of the season results very poor because doesn't enlight things that make the show more miscellaneous and closer to us.
I might not like smallville (and this season in particular) without the Tess' character exploration (Toxic), the Chloe's bad moments (Abyss, Hex) and, above all, the Lois' sentimental path!!!!! (Instinct, Committed (WOW!!!))
Having all these elements and not only clark centered episodes makes this show so close to us.
PS sorry for the bad english... I'm Italian

[ooglebug]

I don't think we should see it that black and white. Yes it had two scenes that advanced one of the story arcs, but the rest was all just fill up material just to get to those points. I think they could have handled a better scenario to get to those points, cause the rest of the episode is just a waste of space considering the story arcs. That doesn't make it a bad episode, it just means that the rest of the episode was not important for the story arcs.


:D i think that was kind of the point i was making - a "filler" isnt a bad thing!!!

but i dont think stiletto was filler mainly because Lois' arc this season was kind of the development of her relationship with/ feelings for clark (i dont mean that in a bad way) and a vague pursuit of the RBB and so this episode is really relevant to that...
hmmm i dont know

i dont think there is a clear answer - it can be argued either way!

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Yes, we are discussing fillers and according to every operational definition of a "filler," Stiletto simply does not qualify as one. Your defense of your opinion so far has been that it's too soon for Lois to be on the show and that Clark was in the background and not being developed in Stiletto.

Whether or not Lois should or should not have been brought in is arguable, but not when discussing if Stiletto was a filler. She is a character on the show, has been for years, and they are slowly developing her connection to Clark and the RBB from the mythos with episodes like Stiletto making a major contribution.

Clark was developed as a character as well because we got to see him being proactive, being a good moral influence on his friends, being praised as doing well beyond expectations as a reporter for the DP in his first year, and being ready to take a step towards becoming more of a public figure by suggesting a new name for the RBB and talking to a reporter. These are important steps towards Superman, and would not have been seen had they not been included in an episode like Stiletto where Lois, Clark, Clois, the RBB, Chloe, Doomsday, Chlavis, Jimmy, and Intergang were developed.

Think of it this way, in the Pilot Lana asks Clark if he's "man or Superman." In Stiletto we get to see that he is closer than ever to realizing that he doesn't have to choose one or the other. Rather, he can be both man and "Superman," and that Lois Lane will play an important role in his everyday life as an ordinary man working at the DP and giving the name and writing articles about the hero she names Superman.

whats your take on my previous post?
below

Well i think that clark's development, as you kind of said in later points, is basically the fundemental point of smallville - it's to show how he becomes superman; its like the over-arching theme of the entire series - therefore, technically every episode and season on smallville is part of his journey. If an episode showing Clark's progression towards becoming superman couldn't be considered a filler, then perhaps you could argue there never are fillers...
However, season by season however there are different main plot arcs and episodes that stand out as separate from them; these could be considered fillers but only within the confines of a season.

I can think of quite a few arguments against what i just said lol but il stand by it, because i have homework to do and cant be bothered to have a debate with myself lol...

erm yeah lol
to be honest i dont think Stiletto was a filler, i don't think there have been any true fillers this season - i think a true filler has to be completely seperate from the plot, maybe Lexmas... and even that was Lex's development...

[Promise]

If we call this first contact between our Superman and Lois as a ‘filler’, then I don’t know what is NOT a filler in this show. lol

As a Superman fan, I consider the last scene of this episode totally epic and one of the most significant moments in the SV series, because we’ve got;

- A hint of Clark’s new superhero name
- A hint of RBB going public one day
- A hint of Lois’s first article of Superman


Awesome! :D

And as a Superman fan right here as well, the story written to get to the points you laid out was ick.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----



Think of it this way, in the Pilot Lana asks Clark if he's "man or Superman." In Stiletto we get to see that he is closer than ever to realizing that he doesn't have to choose one or the other. Rather, he can be both man and "Superman," and that Lois Lane will play an important role in his everyday life as an ordinary man working at the DP and giving the name and writing articles about the hero she names Superman.

I thought Clark was closer than ever at the end of "Commencement".

[bigblueplanet]

And as a Superman fan right here as well, the story written to get to the points you laid out was ick.



What the word ‘ick’ mean? As in ‘icky’? (I did look up the dictionary but I couldn’t find it.)

I can’t respond to you unless I know what you meant, so can you elaborate what you wanted to say? I’d love to hear from my fellow Superman fan who has a different POV.

[Promise]

What the word ‘ick’ mean? As in ‘icky’? (I did look up the dictionary but I couldn’t find it.)

I can’t respond to you unless I know what you meant, so can you elaborate what you wanted to say? I’d love to hear from my fellow Superman fan who has a different POV.

oh, hahah, sorry. Bascially, the points you laid out for Stilletto was awesome as far as the name Superman, etc. I loved that too, but the story/episode written(Stilletto) didn't fit for me to feel the true emotion for that build up. So it was ick yes aka icky or eeeh, or meeh'ish. Hope that cleared it up. lol:D

[ginevrakent]

I thought Clark was closer than ever at the end of "Commencement".

Really? In the following episode, he chooses not to continue his training and he happily accepts a life without powers to be with Lana. The next three seasons after Commencement, Clark continues to run from his destiny in the hopes that he can somehow have a "normal" life with Lana. It is not until Lana is out of the picture, that Clark realizes that he has been holding on to a life that doesn't exist. He decides he needs to let it go. He gets a job at the DP and he starts saving lives in Metropolis as the RBB.

[bigblueplanet]

oh, hahah, sorry. Bascially, the points you laid out for Stilletto was awesome as far as the name Superman, etc. I loved that too, but the story/episode written(Stilletto) didn't fit for me to feel the true emotion for that build up. So it was ick yes aka icky or eeeh, or meeh'ish. Hope that cleared it up. lol:D

Oh, I see! Thanks for clarifying. :)

I wrote my reply then I noticed you have many other posts in this thread so I went back to read all of them. Plus, I’ve also noticed that we’re on the page 14 (!), and there’re so many great posts (from both sides) and I realized what I was going to say has been said repeatedly already. So I changed what I wrote in a response to you.

I’ve just decided to focus on the fact that we both (as Superman fans) thought the last scene was awesome and recognized it as *epic* moment. I’m happy for both of us.

The reason I had only one post in this thread (when you responded to my post) is because personally I didn’t care whether or not people calls it ‘filler’. I guess many of us have a different definition of ‘filler’ but having seen YOU said that you actually loved this moments says it all for me.

So let’s embrace the moment and cerebrate for our beloved Clark Kent aka our future Superman for his very first ‘coming out as his alter ego’ moment. :D

[Charles Griffyn]

Its definitly not a filler episode. It may not have done anything with the seasons main arc, but it made a major step for the big arc of the series of moving towards the comic mythos. It was a very traditional Superman style story, Lois goes to very extreme lengths to get a story, Clark finds out, Jimmy gets involved in it almost by accident, Clark saves Lois, the three leave together and theres a small epilogue of Lois and Clark at the Daily Planet. Very much traditional Superman story, then we got hints of next year with Bruno Manheim and the phone call at the end as well as a small amount of set up for the next episode with AJ being killed by Davis. Perfect episode in my eyes.

[jayyjayy]

Filler in the sense that if i missed Stiletto, I would still be able to follow the next episode without skipping a beat. Whereas if i missed Beast, then i don't know why Chloe and Davis are living in a tent in Iowa come the next episode.

[SGuthrie27]

I totally think this was NOT a filler episode. Now, it didn't move along the Chlavis/Chloomsday plot forward, which has been the driving force of pretty much the entire season, but it added some great new beats to the Clois relationship and Lois Lane's refining her journalistic skills so they don't include fabricating superheroines, LOL. And it actually did have an important twist in the Doomsday plot by having him kill Mannheim's right-hand-man and Chloe ditch the body -- it makes what she dreams about and does in "Beast" make that much more sense. Plus, I just love "Stiletto." I thought it was a really cool, fun episode that brought a few light-hearted moments to an otherwise very dark ongoing storyline.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Promise]

Really? In the following episode, he chooses not to continue his training and he happily accepts a life without powers to be with Lana. The next three seasons after Commencement, Clark continues to run from his destiny in the hopes that he can somehow have a "normal" life with Lana. It is not until Lana is out of the picture, that Clark realizes that he has been holding on to a life that doesn't exist. He decides he needs to let it go. He gets a job at the DP and he starts saving lives in Metropolis as the RBB.

Of course the opportunity to jump on Lana, anyways, If you understood my post, I said at the end of Commencement. No one one new how S5 was going to start. And since you want to jump ahead, Chole actually interuppted the training. And also, it was until the 2nd half of reckoning is when Smallville changed because the first few episode in S5 was on point in telling a story about Clark Kent.

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Oh, I see! Thanks for clarifying. :)

I wrote my reply then I noticed you have many other posts in this thread so I went back to read all of them. Plus, I’ve also noticed that we’re on the page 14 (!), and there’re so many great posts (from both sides) and I realized what I was going to say has been said repeatedly already. So I changed what I wrote in a response to you.

I’ve just decided to focus on the fact that we both (as Superman fans) thought the last scene was awesome and recognized it as *epic* moment. I’m happy for both of us.

The reason I had only one post in this thread (when you responded to my post) is because personally I didn’t care whether or not people calls it ‘filler’. I guess many of us have a different definition of ‘filler’ but having seen YOU said that you actually loved this moments says it all for me.

So let’s embrace the moment and cerebrate for our beloved Clark Kent aka our future Superman for his very first ‘coming out as his alter ego’ moment. :D

Hahaha, its cool. Cheers....It still could of been a better build up in my opinion though. I rather have the glasses at this point.

[BIGBMH]

Really? In the following episode, he chooses not to continue his training and he happily accepts a life without powers to be with Lana. The next three seasons after Commencement, Clark continues to run from his destiny in the hopes that he can somehow have a "normal" life with Lana. It is not until Lana is out of the picture, that Clark realizes that he has been holding on to a life that doesn't exist. He decides he needs to let it go. He gets a job at the DP and he starts saving lives in Metropolis as the RBB.

I kind of agree with that statement. He was so close at the end of season 4, but 5-7 really didn't move him forward very much. There was a lot of good stuff in those seasons, but in terms of the speed of developing Clark, I think they were the low point. Where we are now, we should have been in at least y last year. This season they've had to make up for lost ground hence "Poof! Clark works at the Daily planet and is a sperhero." He should have trained with Jor-el in season 5, met Oliver and John in season 6, and became the RBB in seasn 7. I commend the work that has been done this season, but I feel like more should have been done over the last few so it wouldn't have been so rushed.

[Ella]

Really? In the following episode, he chooses not to continue his training and he happily accepts a life without powers to be with Lana. The next three seasons after Commencement, Clark continues to run from his destiny in the hopes that he can somehow have a "normal" life with Lana. It is not until Lana is out of the picture, that Clark realizes that he has been holding on to a life that doesn't exist. He decides he needs to let it go. He gets a job at the DP and he starts saving lives in Metropolis as the RBB.

Quoted for truth. :cool: