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View Full Version : Dollhouse #1.9 "Spy in the House of Love"



CallMeClark
04-10-2009, 06:28 PM
What are your thoughts on "Spy and the House of Love?"

Good? Bad? Just okay?

wooosmallville
04-10-2009, 06:39 PM
Looks like everyone is missing today!

----- Added 21 Minutes later -----

wow. great episode! I thought the reveal seemed pretty obvious but it was very well done. And definitely an interesting new character layer for Dewitt. It was definitely not expected.

dru-zod2501
04-10-2009, 07:13 PM
Could Dominic have been more of a puss getting into the chair? At least he could show some dignity in his final moments I've seen people go to the guillotine make less of a stink

wooosmallville
04-10-2009, 07:23 PM
Could Dewitt have been more of a puss getting into the chair? At least he could show some dignity in his final moments I've seen people go to the guillotine make less of a stink

You mean Dominic?

actaeon
04-10-2009, 07:23 PM
I'm beginning to suspect that this show is... brilliant! It's working at so many levels. And it's hitting so many "firsts".

This may be the first show that tells things from the perspective of the "bad guys". The moral ambiguities of what the Dollhouse does, and the ruthlessness with which they pursue their game, don't put these people in a very good light. Not that that's bad. It's good. Wait... my head is spinning....

While the show seems to be a celebration of nihilism and hedonism, tonight's episode highlighted the triumph of the human spirit. Despite being repeatedly wiped and reprogrammed, Echo still is not a blank slate! There is a fundamental, irrepressible essence to her, that survives.

And despite all the heavy philosophical implications, this show is just so much fun! I mean, who could not love Topher? And Echo as a dominatrix... so juicy!

This show is an actor's dream. November, suddenly switching back and forth, was breathtaking. And ED slips so completely and convincingly into her various personae.

dru-zod2501
04-10-2009, 08:54 PM
You mean Dominic?
Fixed

He was still a little (rhymes with witch), pathetic...

jsith99
04-10-2009, 09:23 PM
an ok episode

weemanwise
04-10-2009, 10:03 PM
Another good episode, can't wait until the next one airs in 2 weeks

wooosmallville
04-11-2009, 05:39 AM
I liked Echo's personality this epi. Reminded me a lot of Lie to Me which is a great show.

Hopefulsuicide
04-11-2009, 06:31 AM
God I feel sick i'm so dizzy, Dollhouse is spinning us about so much! :)

I give it a 9.5 (still not gonna give that 10 :lol:)

So many layers of awesome in this episode. Mellie's reveal to ballard, Echo asking to be imprinted, DeWitt being the lonely heart, Dominic goes to the attic (totally room there for a return one day), Boyd isn't Echo's handler anymore :( But he IS head of security which actually makes a lot of sense and he will be great at it, and he will still care about Echo, I loved Victor telling Topher that Ivy likes him, I loved Sierra the agent

Seriously, there was not a moment of this episode that was not both enjoyable, intreuging and well written. Not too much of the 'witty' dialog that Xanderman so hates either (so I hope you liked this one :lol:).

It simply was another example of why Joss Whedon is a genius at making television shows. This show HAS to get another season, PLEASE!

p.s. anyone find the idea of the attic absolutely petrifying? how many people are up there?

Morbo
04-11-2009, 08:40 AM
Question: How can November be imprinted with the secret message when Topher shows Boyd the chip that was supposed to do that?

an other spy?

Hopefulsuicide
04-11-2009, 09:07 AM
Yeah it's very confusing... Is Dominic the one who has been sending Ballard messages? I don't think he is because he was working with the NSA to make sure that Ballard didn't find out too much...

wooosmallville
04-11-2009, 12:57 PM
Yeah it's very confusing... Is Dominic the one who has been sending Ballard messages? I don't think he is because he was working with the NSA to make sure that Ballard didn't find out too much...

I'm pretty confused by that as well. It doesn't seem like its Dominic. There's gotta be another spy. I wouldn't think he was capable of that.
Does this mean the NSA is fully aware of the dollhouse? Or he was just pulling strings within the NSA to make sure that Ballard doesn't find out? :confused:

Hopefulsuicide
04-11-2009, 03:49 PM
I think it means that they are fully aware... which is kind of insane isn't it? How is anyone going to ever bring down the Dollhouses if it's protected by the NSA and god knows what else...

I really wanna know what the Dollhouses agenda actually is :)

Pamela
04-11-2009, 04:31 PM
Could Dominic have been more of a puss getting into the chair? At least he could show some dignity in his final moments I've seen people go to the guillotine make less of a stink

Any person who could knock an "innocent" person out and leave her to burn is a puss and exactly the kind of person who wouldn't have any dignity when it came to his own fate.

I'm still wondering exactly what happens in the attic. Did I miss anything from other episodes? We know that Dominic's personality is now on a computer chip and he's going to the attic. Does that mean he will just lie there in "stasis" with no personality?

Also, Victor playing a girl toy for Katherine- wow! I can't decide if I'm fascinated or creeped out. Though I kind of like her better now because she showed a vulnerable side.

Hopefulsuicide
04-11-2009, 05:31 PM
Well Topher said going to the Attic was like having something on the tip of your tongue all the time, about every single thing... that would not be pleasant... and I doubt you'd be able to do much...

redraven
04-11-2009, 07:04 PM
This show is just getting better with each episode. I just really wish it didn't air on Fridays. -_- I always have to find it online the day after.

Anyway, I really liked this episode, I gave it a 10 seeing that it really passed my expectations (and Eliza was in a dominatrix outfit! :O ). It was a bit confusing, but I enjoyed all the reveals. I feel bad for Ballard, cause it seems that he might go insane soon now he has no one to get his mind off the Dollhouse.

Xanderman
04-11-2009, 10:27 PM
Great episode. It seemed to get better and better as it went along. I wasn't really into it at first, but after a while I found myself hooked despite ongoing protests from the little voice inside me who can't stand this show sometimes. lol Sierra as a spy was great, by far my favorite episode/story/engagement for her character and the actress. The Dewitt/Victor stuff was great as well and a fun surprise. Dominic being a spy/mole was a surprise too, although I guess we shouldn't be too shocked given his dislike/hatred for dolls (ie. he was never truly invested in the dollhouse or the people).

My favorite part of the ep was the scene between Dominic and Echo near the end:

Dominic: First they're going to erase you.
Echo: I can take care of myself.
Dominic: I know, that's why I'm smiling. Because one day you'll be erasing them. Even after all this, they still won't see it coming.

^Loved the music playing in this scene. For some reason it gave me Total Recall vibes.


Boyd: I prefer to stay with Echo. I need to take care of her.
Dewitt: Apparently you don't. It seems she's the one taking care of us.

^Funny double meaning here. Dewitt means it in the sense that she's protecting them, but after what Dominic said about Echo erasing them some day, it takes on the other meaning.


So there goes the Dominic=doll possibility I suppose (although who he was could still have been a programmed character). But the DeWitt possibility is still alive and well, with such clues including:

CLUE#1:
Dominic: None of these incidents were your fault.
Dewitt: On the contrary Mr. Dominic, everything that happens under this roof is my fault.

(On the contrary Ms. DeWitt, if you're a doll then Dominic is 100% right--nothing that happens is truly your fault. lol)

CLUE#2:
Victor: If I could make a woman, I'd make you.

CLUE#3:
Dominic (last words to Dewitt): You're a piece of work.


And more fuel for the Ballard=doll fire too:

Ballard: I can't sleep. The only thing I think about is finding this place, and sometimes I don't even know why I'm after it anymore.

(duh, because you've been PROGRAMMED to feel/think that way, Paul Dullard. lol)

9/10



Not too much of the 'witty' dialog that Xanderman so hates either (so I hope you liked this one :lol:).:lol: Yup you got it, I did like this one and the writing/dialogue wasn't a problem at all. Apparently the writer Andrew Chambliss is "an assistant to Tim Kring and a graphic novel writer for the show Heroes". I guess that solves THAT mystery, eh? lol

Xanderman
04-12-2009, 04:37 PM
Is Dominic the one who has been sending Ballard messages? I don't think he is because he was working with the NSA to make sure that Ballard didn't find out too much...

I'm pretty confused by that as well. It doesn't seem like its Dominic. There's gotta be another spy. I wouldn't think he was capable of that. I agree it's doubtful he's the spy who's been passing messages along via secret imprints. We've gotten no evidence that he has the technical skills to accomplish anything like that.

Speaking of the spy, Echo specifically asked to be imprinted so she could help find the spy. I think her intention was not to catch the inside person at all, but to draw attention away from them. And what better way than to cast suspicion on someone else and thus put the matter to rest. The question is whether Echo was knowingly doing this (ie. she's been faking being mindless in her inactive state), or whether it's more subconscious. Or whether it's part of some permanent programming done to her which compels her to safeguard the identity of the inside person.


I really wanna know what the Dollhouses agenda actually is :)The most obvious purpose of course would be world domination (via replacing world leaders, etc), but that's too predictable. Maybe it's something to do with finding the human soul, a la Dark City, making the powers that be behind this all...dun dun dun...aliens who want to cheat death. Lol. (Where harnessing the soul=harnessing immortality, or something like that.) And the special person they are searching for is none other than Caroline/Echo herself, someone who is demonstrating being something more than the sum of her memories (memories can be wiped, but the soul can't, etc). Either way whatever they end up doing, I know it can't possibly be as "out there" as what Fox's Fringe is doing (multiple dimensions/parallel worlds stuff), but who knows. Maybe the Earth or the human race is in some sort of impending danger (of annihilation or extinction?), and whatever they're doing is intended to save it--by finding "the One" (just like Fringe). "The One" being Olivia on Fringe, and Echo/Caroline here on Dollhouse. Or possibly Nowhere Man (Ballard). heh


Victor playing a girl toy for Katherine- wow! I can't decide if I'm fascinated or creeped out. Though I kind of like her better now because she showed a vulnerable side.What's funny is that after he was outed Dominic mocked Dewitt for believing in the Dollhouse, that it (and they) actually help people, and Dewitt didn't really disagree. When all the while she's been abusing it for selfish reasons herself, making a love slave out of Victor. lol


I feel bad for Ballard, cause it seems that he might go insane soon now he has no one to get his mind off the Dollhouse.You think he's going nuts now, just wait till he finds out his whole life's just a dream, like Arnie did in Total Recall, or Nowhere Man did in Nowhere Man. lol

Hopefulsuicide
04-13-2009, 03:16 AM
Xanderman, your scaring me! :p

The one thing I hope NEVER happens is an attempt to replace world leaders... That'd just be so... Heroes! And Joss is so not that predictable.

p.s. the writing credits are confusing...



Joss Whedon (creator)

Jane Espenson (written by) &
Maurissa Tancharoen (written by) &
Jed Whedon (written by)

Andrew Chambliss written by

So the heroes guy can't take full credit.

Hopefulsuicide
04-13-2009, 02:59 PM
Okay, just rewatched it, and it does seem like Dominic might have been the one who programmed the messages... I just don't know how or why...

Basically, Topher finds a chip that allows people to access and change bits of imprints... they hunt for the person who planted this chip, then they find him...

Hmmm i hope the messages aren't over... It was a cool way of communicating with Ballard.

Vergon6
04-14-2009, 07:31 PM
Okay, just rewatched it, and it does seem like Dominic might have been the one who programmed the messages... I just don't know how or why...

Basically, Topher finds a chip that allows people to access and change bits of imprints... they hunt for the person who planted this chip, then they find him...

Hmmm i hope the messages aren't over... It was a cool way of communicating with Ballard.
I have a feeling Dominic was only one piece of the puzzle. They thought everything was over with Echo after the previous episode but it wasn't. It was a very interesting episode. I like that they are switching up the way they tell stories, rather than sticking to a formula. The last few episodes have been so much better than the first few.

It was interesting to see character development on many fronts in this episode, whether we were shown (for instance, DeWitt being revealed as Miss Lonely Hearts) or told through Echo's imprint's interrogations.

CallMeClark
04-15-2009, 04:52 AM
Question: How can November be imprinted with the secret message when Topher shows Boyd the chip that was supposed to do that?

an other spy?
I think the chip was a listening device. There is someone else in the Dollhouse messing with the imprints. Someone with computer skills. My guess is on the Doctor.

Hopefulsuicide
04-15-2009, 11:32 AM
I have a feeling Dominic was only one piece of the puzzle. They thought everything was over with Echo after the previous episode but it wasn't. It was a very interesting episode. I like that they are switching up the way they tell stories, rather than sticking to a formula. The last few episodes have been so much better than the first few.



I think the chip was a listening device. There is someone else in the Dollhouse messing with the imprints. Someone with computer skills. My guess is on the Doctor.

Well the chip definately allowed whoever put it there to change imprints, because Topher said it...

I assumed Alpha was working with someone inside the Dollhouse because he had been sending Ballard information (the photo and video) and so it was clear he wanted Ballard's help.

In fact, what did Echo's changed imprint actually say to Ballard?



Echo: The Dollhouse is real. They know you’re after them and they are going to have you taken off the case. That’s why they sent me.

[She lets him up and he right himself, panting]

Paul: Why are you telling me this?

Echo: We have a person inside. This person corrupted the imprint while the programmer wasn’t looking, added this parameter.

Paul: Is this the person that sent me the tapes and pictures?

Echo: No. This is their first communication. Security inside is very tight.

Paul: Where is it?

Echo: You can’t know that. You’re going about this the wrong way.

Paul: I have to take down the Dollhouse.

Echo: There are over 20 Dollhouses, in cities around the world. They have ties to every major political power on the planet. You cannot possibly stop them alone.

Paul: You’re going to help me?

Echo: The person that sent this message is.

Paul: Why?

Echo: The Dollhouse deals in fantasy. That is their business, but that is not their purpose.

Paul: What is?

Echo: We need you to find out. We’ll contact you again— if possible with this same body. But you have to let the Dollhouse win. Make them back off. You have to trust me.

Okay, I've decided. It was just Dominic.

Everything said in that conversation leads to the 'We' being the NSA. They don't want him to find the Dollhouse, but they do see him as useful in getting them information that they don't know yet. It's not anything to do with Alpha, as the 'We' didn't send him the pic or video (and we know Alpha did). If it was anyone else, who would they be working with/for?

Nah, it's just Dominic... oh well... onto Alpha stuff! :)

Welling_is_pretty
04-27-2009, 12:38 PM
IMO, this was the best episode to date. Funny, full of action, and with character reveals that were part of the story rather than the story, this was a great episode.

Victor and Adelle (and how surprising was that?), Echo asking Topher to "let her help", and all of Sierra's stuff just added up to a wonderful episode.

I also got to sing in my sister's face (well, through email) the "I told you so" song about Dominic--I had him pegged as a bad guy almost from the first episode.

oh and I have to tell you that after almost hating Enver (Victor) in the beginning I'm really starting to love the guy.

lorenzovanmatterhorn
06-11-2011, 05:04 AM
SPY IN THE HOUSE OF LOVE

The good;
Exciting ep, the first I ever went back and rewatched immediately after again, Very clever mislead in the first scene, we think it's Dewitt getting wiped. The humanisation of Dewitt continues and it's beautifully written and played by all concerned. Good scene too between Ballard and Mellie, your heart bleeds for him.

The bad;
Echo the spycatcher wonders why Dr Saunders doesn't leave the Dollhouse? Possibly HER DISFIGURED FACE?! No commentary which is a real shame. The Sierra stuff is ok but we've seen it all before.

Best line;
Dominic "Sooner or later everyone get's there's" (Here's hoping!)
also like
Echo "I've got a good feeling about you and I've got the whip"
and
Dewitt (on the idea of Victor the imprinted Doll becoming a client of the Dollhouse and hiring another Doll for his pleasure) "I think the universe might just collapse!"

Packing heat; Dewitt pretty handy with her foil, Dominic with his Glock
Echo;5
Boyd; 6
Dominic; 7
Sierra; 3
Victor; 2

Echo kissage;
By request this new topic will be included.

Kinky dinky;
Ramirez wishes to be kidnapped by a pirate (I have a friend with an almost identical fantasy, differs only in that she get's tied to the mast Ulysees style and the whole of Johnny Depp's pirate crew are involved). Suprisingly Dr Saunders says that the actives aren't submissives, I'd have thought that would have been a hugely popular choice for clients (what about Sierra who begs her client to hurt her?).
Ok I'll say it now. Dominatrix Echo is the SEXIEST THING EVER! My god she's gorgeous! Sexier than Mathilda May in Lifeforce, sexier than Athen Massey in Undercover, sexier than Alyssa Milano in The Outer Limits, Lynda Carter as Wonder Woman, than Charisma Carpenter and Mercedes McNab in Playboy, than Ripley at the end of Alien or even ED's own bikini fashion parade in The New Guy. Needless to say it was a sequence that featured endlessly all over the internet, TV and magazines and I earnestly believe was the sole reason that Dollhouse got a second season. If only they'd tried something similar to get a third! (Echo the naughty schoolgirl/stewardess/hot cop etc, we've already had her as a nurse in Tru Calling)
And here it lives forever in cyberspace (plus some interesting comments by ED on how she approached the role and how much she enjoyed playing it); http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA)

<TABLE style="MARGIN: 10px 0px" class=tborder cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width=425><THEAD><TR><TD style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" class=tcat colSpan=2>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gCOGkxg_QA) </TD></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR><TD class=panelsurround align=middle><EMBED height=350 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/6gCOGkxg_QA&ap=%2526fmt%3D18&fs=1 allowfullscreen="true" wmode="transparent"></EMBED></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

)
Now if you'll excuse me I just have to lie down for a moment!

Notches on the Dollhouse bedpost; Victor/Adele. Not sure if Dominatrx Echo actually had sex with her client or not, some Dominatrixes do, some don't.
Echo; 3 definite, 1 possible
November; 1
Ballard; 1
Victor; 1
Adele; 1

How'd they get away with that?
Dominic getting wiped is hard to watch even after all the things he's done.

This weeks fantasy;
Echo is a dominatrix and a spycatcher. Victor is Roger the romantic, Sierra a spy.

Total number personalitites; 2 for Echo, 1 each for Victor and Sierra
Echo; 16
Sierra; 7
Victor; 4
November; 2

Total dolls; 6
Echo, Sierra, November, Victor, Mike, Tango

Addy is a bit British;
Her ideal lover is called Roger, second name Moore perhaps? She also uses the term 'Crackerjack' which will mean a lot to a Briton of a certain age but little to the rest of the world (does she have the requisite pencil?).

Topher is a bit geeky;

Subverting the Hollywood cliche;

Bondage;
Sierra tied up; 1

Knocked out;
Echo; 2
November; 1
Sierra; 1
Victor; 1

Kills;
Sierra; 2 kills
Echo; 1
November;1

Dolls injured;
Echo roughed up by Dominic, Victor cut by Dewitt. Poor Ramirez hurt for a second time by Echo, this time with the whip (which is probably far preferrable to the fire extinguisher for her!) .

Capt subtext;
In the van dominatrix Echo talks of S&M being about trust and surrendering yourself completely to another. This actually is a good analogy of the handler active relationship and what Topher tells Boyd when he first meet Echo. Dr Saunders comments on the many same sex relationships the actives are called out to do. Victor comments that he wants to keep his collection of high powered businesswoman shoes. Ramirez says she'd prefer S&M Barbie Echo to suave ladykiller Victor.

Happy hookers
Boyd considers the Dollhouse 'pimps and killers', himself included.

Know the face?
5 Whedon alumni-Mark Shepherd, Amy Acker, walking action figure, Eliza Dushku, Jim Piddock

Guantanamo;
So who is we? Who is sending the messages to Ballard? Dominic and the NSA? That makes no sense and seems unlikely, is there more than one person inside trying to bring it down?
Dominic is intent on torturing Ivy for info. Almost reassuring that the goverment want to control the Dollhouse, the NSA may have little oversight but at least it has some. The idea of the attic is just so scary

Fanfic;
Dominatrix Echo the most popular whipcracker since Calamity Jane. (Birthdate Verification Page (http://tv.adultfanfiction.net/story.php?no=600095359) if you're 18+ and VERY open minded)

Missing scenes;

Reminds me off;
Mixed segments Quentin Tarantino style. Ballard is reminiscent of season 5 Wes in his obsession whilst sleeper assassin Mellie is like season 7 Spike. Sierra at the NSA is very Mission Impossible but even more Alias.

Breaking the programming;
Echo not only volunteers to help Topher but comprehends the purpose of the chair. Dewitt and Toper know but allow her to continue.

Questions and observations;
Echo waves to Mellie who seems to know her, as Echo or as Caroline from Ballards research? Victor refers Dewitt as 'Katherine', is that her real name? (gives credence to the 'She's Caroline's mother' theory).
The Miss-Lonely-Heart storyline has actually been mentioned a few times in previous eps. Note Topher suspects it's Boyd who has betrayed the Dollhouse but still goes to give him a chance to run before informing Dominic, he really does consider him a friend (or has his own doubts and wants to bring the Dollhouse down)
Fan bloody-tastic, second best ep of season 1
Marks out of 10; 9/10