Okay, hear me out

[SuperheroFan87]

If you're going to take shots at me for this, please do so in a constructive, respectful manner.

That being said........this retcon about Davis being Clark's greatest enemy actually makes sense based on the following reasons:

1. Yes, Lex Luthor is Superman's frequent nemesis in the comics and the most popular........but Doomsday is his greatest nemesis because Doomsday did what Luthor and other villains have tried and failed at numerous times--he actually killed Superman, physically brought him down. No easy task for any other villain.

2. The Pilot episode skipped ahead from the Kents finding Clark to the present day with him in high school........I took that to mean they would fill in the gaps later in the series and they did with Lineage, Traveler, Veritas, and now Eternal. Maybe they intended that all along.

3. The cave painting of Naman and Sageeth is a dead giveaway that its Davis. Two heads on one body--symbolic for a savior and a destroyer coming to earth at the same time in the same craft maybe? And one head is a monster.........kind of like Doomsday is a monster.

4. Why didn't Jor-El mention Doomsday after all these years if he was such a dire threat? Simple, my theory is that in the earlier seasons maybe Clark wasn't mature enough to handle him, perhaps Jor-El intended to wait until Clark was prepared enough to handle a threat of that magnitude.........Clark would've been dead had he went up against Davis in like........Season 3 or 4. This season he has finally embraced his heroic calling, so Jor-El figured now that he is ready he'll stand a little bit more of a chance.

So I don't see it as a total retcon, sure there are plotholes..........I'm not questioning that, I just feel that these storylines have added a little more to the show's history that is all.

[Kryptochloe]

I actually think that, for once, the writers did a very good job tying a new story with the old one we already know... and make it have sense and fit in...

[SuperheroFan87]

I actually think that, for once, the writers did a very good job tying a new story with the old one we already know... and make it have sense and fit in...

Precisely, if anything they've filled in quite a few gaps that were left unresolved in earlier seasons.

[chlo-el]

Precisely, if anything they've filled in quite a few gaps that were left unresolved in earlier seasons.

I think they did a really good job with this.

[Sunny8]

If you're going to take shots at me for this, please do so in a constructive, respectful manner.

That being said........this retcon about Davis being Clark's greatest enemy actually makes sense based on the following reasons:

1. Yes, Lex Luthor is Superman's frequent nemesis in the comics and the most popular........but Doomsday is his greatest nemesis because Doomsday did what Luthor and other villains have tried and failed at numerous times--he actually killed Superman, physically brought him down. No easy task for any other villain.

2. The Pilot episode skipped ahead from the Kents finding Clark to the present day with him in high school........I took that to mean they would fill in the gaps later in the series and they did with Lineage, Traveler, Veritas, and now Eternal. Maybe they intended that all along.

3. The cave painting of Naman and Sageeth is a dead giveaway that its Davis. Two heads on one body--symbolic for a savior and a destroyer coming to earth at the same time in the same craft maybe? And one head is a monster.........kind of like Doomsday is a monster.

4. Why didn't Jor-El mention Doomsday after all these years if he was such a dire threat? Simple, my theory is that in the earlier seasons maybe Clark wasn't mature enough to handle him, perhaps Jor-El intended to wait until Clark was prepared enough to handle a threat of that magnitude.........Clark would've been dead had he went up against Davis in like........Season 3 or 4. This season he has finally embraced his heroic calling, so Jor-El figured now that he is ready he'll stand a little bit more of a chance.

So I don't see it as a total retcon, sure there are plotholes..........I'm not questioning that, I just feel that these storylines have added a little more to the show's history that is all.

These are very good points and they help me to understand this episode better. Thanks.

[Jawth]

If you're going to take shots at me for this, please do so in a constructive, respectful manner.

That being said........this retcon about Davis being Clark's greatest enemy actually makes sense based on the following reasons:

1. Yes, Lex Luthor is Superman's frequent nemesis in the comics and the most popular........but Doomsday is his greatest nemesis because Doomsday did what Luthor and other villains have tried and failed at numerous times--he actually killed Superman, physically brought him down. No easy task for any other villain.

2. The Pilot episode skipped ahead from the Kents finding Clark to the present day with him in high school........I took that to mean they would fill in the gaps later in the series and they did with Lineage, Traveler, Veritas, and now Eternal. Maybe they intended that all along.

3. The cave painting of Naman and Sageeth is a dead giveaway that its Davis. Two heads on one body--symbolic for a savior and a destroyer coming to earth at the same time in the same craft maybe? And one head is a monster.........kind of like Doomsday is a monster.

4. Why didn't Jor-El mention Doomsday after all these years if he was such a dire threat? Simple, my theory is that in the earlier seasons maybe Clark wasn't mature enough to handle him, perhaps Jor-El intended to wait until Clark was prepared enough to handle a threat of that magnitude.........Clark would've been dead had he went up against Davis in like........Season 3 or 4. This season he has finally embraced his heroic calling, so Jor-El figured now that he is ready he'll stand a little bit more of a chance.

So I don't see it as a total retcon, sure there are plotholes..........I'm not questioning that, I just feel that these storylines have added a little more to the show's history that is all.

First of all, Superman WON the fight against Doomsday. There have been others that have actually beaten Clark down and would have killed him if not for the intervention of others. Since his first few appearances, he's really been shown to be a B list villian that Superman can pummel. After tonight though, I'm really not liking the whole Davisday thing. I think it's been one of the few times the show went TOO far off the source material.

I'm not buying that Doomy's tests came back normal. You'd think someone like Lionel would keep the blood around and check for DNA someday in the least. Also: HOW THE HELL CAN THE KID SPEAK ENGLISH?

As for the betrayal aspect, what trust did he ever have from Clark to betray? It doesn't work.

It IS possible that Jor-El didn't even know about Doomsday, so that part doesn't bother me.

[RPintorO]

If you're going to take shots at me for this, please do so in a constructive, respectful manner.

That being said........this retcon about Davis being Clark's greatest enemy actually makes sense based on the following reasons:

1. Yes, Lex Luthor is Superman's frequent nemesis in the comics and the most popular........but Doomsday is his greatest nemesis because Doomsday did what Luthor and other villains have tried and failed at numerous times--he actually killed Superman, physically brought him down. No easy task for any other villain.

2. The Pilot episode skipped ahead from the Kents finding Clark to the present day with him in high school........I took that to mean they would fill in the gaps later in the series and they did with Lineage, Traveler, Veritas, and now Eternal. Maybe they intended that all along.

3. The cave painting of Naman and Sageeth is a dead giveaway that its Davis. Two heads on one body--symbolic for a savior and a destroyer coming to earth at the same time in the same craft maybe? And one head is a monster.........kind of like Doomsday is a monster.

4. Why didn't Jor-El mention Doomsday after all these years if he was such a dire threat? Simple, my theory is that in the earlier seasons maybe Clark wasn't mature enough to handle him, perhaps Jor-El intended to wait until Clark was prepared enough to handle a threat of that magnitude.........Clark would've been dead had he went up against Davis in like........Season 3 or 4. This season he has finally embraced his heroic calling, so Jor-El figured now that he is ready he'll stand a little bit more of a chance.

So I don't see it as a total retcon, sure there are plotholes..........I'm not questioning that, I just feel that these storylines have added a little more to the show's history that is all.

I agree with you, I liked the continuity of all of it. I enjoyed seeing Jonathan & Martha Kent again...memories.

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


First of all, Superman WON the fight against Doomsday. There have been others that have actually beaten Clark down and would have killed him if not for the intervention of others. Since his first few appearances, he's really been shown to be a B list villian that Superman can pummel. After tonight though, I'm really not liking the whole Davisday thing. I think it's been one of the few times the show went TOO far off the source material.

I'm not buying that Doomy's tests came back normal. You'd think someone like Lionel would keep the blood around and check for DNA someday in the least. Also: HOW THE HELL CAN THE KID SPEAK ENGLISH?

As for the betrayal aspect, what trust did he ever have from Clark to betray? It doesn't work.

It IS possible that Jor-El didn't even know about Doomsday, so that part doesn't bother me.

I disagree with you bro...peace

[antx]

I think all of your points make sense,thanks for posting this.I actually really liked what the writers did with Davis landing to earth the same day as clark,and kind of always being a threat to him.I remember thinking it was very interesting how they incorporated Lionel in the veritas episode and him knowing all along about Clark's secret.It was cool how thay made him Clark's mentor,and now they've had him finding Davis and mistaking him as the traveler,but then procceding on to find the last son of Krypton.They have done a very good job with revealing Clark's destiny in this series.

[Kschreck]

There are way to many plotholes in this episode for me to ever congratulate the writers on mixing to stories together. If there was a minor plothole or something then I could forgive them but people found like 20 or more plotholes already in this episode.

Some of the plotholes:

-Chloe is able to stop Doomsday almost any time she wants but that wasn't the case in the original timeline arc for "Infamous"
-Lex didn't know the St. George (about the box) story until that b-day party of his
-Tess was able to get Lionel's Veritas journal yet Lex has never been able to.
-Another one is why did the knife in Talisman disappear when Lex touched it if he wasn't Clark's greatest enemy?
-Why was there kryptonite in the st george box and why was it on lionels desk when it was the gift for lex from where ever lionel got it. Did he re-gift it to lex? haha
-How would he even know about kryptonite that early in the Smallville storyline.
-It sure did look like Lionel Luthor lived there even though Clark said that Lionel never lived in the castle and had no intention to.
-Why did Davis get cut by the knife when in previous episodes he couldn't be harmed by knives?
-There was plenty of weird stuff, but the most glaring plothole for me would be the whole "Oliver's taking care of it" bit, and then Davis shows up, completely fine in Chloe's basement. Yeah, but wha -- ?!
-You gotta laugh how Lionel's people tracked down Davis right past the spaceship and left it there for somebody else to retrieve
-Lionels men didn't even notice the big egg Doomsday hatched from and ignored that he spoke perfect English.
-I have to rewatch the episode but was it Tess that made the comment that Davis and Clark didn't get along for a reason? If so (unless i'm wrong) ... how would she know that?
-All sorts of biblical errors and misinterpretations from the new Testament.
-Also.. So Lional knew clark was the travel all along? they have always had him suspecting it but not knowing. Also wasnt it Johnathan not Martha that called in the favor?
-Somehow the Orb magically survived Jor-El's destruction of the fortress and magically found it's way back to Tess Mercer who has never even seen the Orb in person before.

[SuperheroFan87]

First of all, Superman WON the fight against Doomsday. There have been others that have actually beaten Clark down and would have killed him if not for the intervention of others. Since his first few appearances, he's really been shown to be a B list villian that Superman can pummel. After tonight though, I'm really not liking the whole Davisday thing. I think it's been one of the few times the show went TOO far off the source material.

I'm not buying that Doomy's tests came back normal. You'd think someone like Lionel would keep the blood around and check for DNA someday in the least. Also: HOW THE HELL CAN THE KID SPEAK ENGLISH?

As for the betrayal aspect, what trust did he ever have from Clark to betray? It doesn't work.

It IS possible that Jor-El didn't even know about Doomsday, so that part doesn't bother me.

You're correct, he won the fight, but both ended up dead..........granted it was temporary, because death in the comics world is only a minor speed bump. You make a lot of other good points, like I said I'm not questioning that there are plotholes and that some parts of it don't make sense.:) I agree with your take on the Jor-El thing, it is indeed plausible that he had no idea that Doomsday was a stowaway on Clark's ship.

[karenfaith]

There are way to many plotholes in this episode for me to ever congratulate the writers on mixing to stories together. If there was a minor plothole or something then I could forgive them but people found like 20 or more plotholes already in this episode.
Some of the plotholes:
1. Another one is why did the knife in Talisman disappear when Lex touched it if he wasn't Clark's greatest enemy?

2. I have to rewatch the episode but was it Tess that made the comment that Davis and Clark didn't get along for a reason? If so (unless i'm wrong) ... how would she know that?

3. All sorts of biblical errors and misinterpretations from the new Testament.

4. Somehow the Orb magically survived Jor-El's destruction of the fortress and magically found it's way back to Tess Mercer who has never even seen the Orb in person before.

for me, these plotholes weren't exactly as horrific as many think:

1. Lex is Clark's greatest enemy, and just because Tess says otherwise doesn't mean that this is not true anymore. I still believe that Lex is and will always be Clark's greatest enemy. IMO, everything about Davis being Sageeth is Tess' interpretation. Not everyone views things the same way. For example, (I can't remember which episode) Lex said that he believed Sageeth to be the hero, not Naman. Lex viewed the whole thing as Sageeth being the one to save the world from Naman because of all the extraordinary things he could do. Obviously, he's wrong, but it's what he believes. Same thing goes with Tess. Just because Tess said it, doesn't mean it's true. All this stuff about Davis is coming from someone who's just learning about all these things in the past month, compared to Dr. Swann, the Kawatchi people, Lionel, etc who've been researching this for years.

2. She's probably making an assumption based on her interpretation of the Naman/Sageeth story. She does believe that Davis is Sageeth, and even if I don't believe that, this is probably why she assumes they don't get along.

3. I totally noticed all those errors about what's from the Bible, but I still stand on my belief that Tess is interpretting it that way. That's what she's using as a justification for Clark to realize that he needs to get rid of Davis. I totally blame that all on Tess and her need to push Clark towards his destiny to become a savior.

4. The deal with the orb is just that it's a cliffhanger. She did go to the Arctic to find Lex, and maybe she found that on the way, but didn't say anything. Idk. What I'm still interested in is the one about who took the STONE/CRYSTAL that made the fortress from Tess because it seems the writers have forgotten that.

[Drakaun]

I for one really liked this episode and really like their interpretation of Doomsday in this universe. I however don't understand why people get so annoyed when there are continuity errors. You are watching a show based off comic books, which are infamous for retconning things constantly. Someone died, they get brought back to life, they were never really dead, a time traveler saved them from their fate etc etc etc.

I can understand people's concern for the larger inconsistencies, but it is still a show based of a comic which has been retconned over the years billions of times. Sometimes you guys point out something minute and silly like there was a tiny rip on the color of Clark's red jacket in one shot, and it was fixed in the next and that made me so angry because writers should be able to catch something so important like that.

Another thing, let's be fair, a TV show has a team of several different writers, some of which write once in a blue moon, and even the team of writers changes constantly. The show as been on for 8 years. I am 22, that means I was 14 when the show started, a small scrawny freshman entering high school for the first time just like Clark. Do I remember every detail of everything that has happened to me over those 8 years? No I don't. It is my life and thus my job to keep track of this but it doesn't mean I can remember every minute detail. I tell a story about going to homecoming for the first time, I was wearing a blue tie. Years later I tell the same story, only this time for some reason I remember wearing a green tie. Oh my god my life has plot holes I should be fired from existing.

I took a creative writing class in high school, I wrote a series of stories for my teacher that were all connected. Years later I went back and read them and you know what I found out, I had inconsistencies and plot holes in my story, so I did a little rewrite changing the basic layout of my story. But the new material had inconsistencies too, but I really liked the new interpretation I put on it, much the same way how I enjoyed this episode because of the new perspective I got to witness old events in. Now when I watch the pilot I will be thinking to myself, there is a naked little boy hiding behind a bush over there. As long as I am entertained and can't wait to tune into the next episode, I feel the writers have done their part efficiently.

Getting back on track seeing some of the plot hole lists, some of them are unimportant and really don't warrant complaining about. The other ones like having Lionel Luthor know Clark is the traveler I can understand people's concern, but I can also rewatch the old seasons with that in mind and feel like even with the material shown to me I don't have a problem believing Lionel always new in the back of his head, but he is a Luthor, and thus a man of facts, he needs cold hard evidence before he can truly accept it which explains how he acted in previous seasons when it came to investigating Clark. Without any cold hard evidence he had nothing.

I can also explain all the rewrites and continuity errors in a very comic book fashion in a series of short scenes I have written.

Lightning Lad: Oh man, I can't believe what I am seeing here, that is Kal-El's spaceship, and I am on Krypton the planet of his birth, someone hand me a sock.

Appearing through a portal Cosmic Boy

Cosmic Boy: Damnit lightning lad, I told you not to come back here you could alter the events of Kal-El's life by being here.

Lightning Lad: I am sorry I couldn't help myself, let me just grab my juice box and we can be off.

reaches for juicebox and knocks over vial of weird green goo as it spills onto the spaceship. panicked he grabs the juice box and disappears.

Some time later

Lightning Lad, Cosmic Boy, and Saturn Girl appear on a Swan Industries satellite

Cosmic Boy: I think we lost the Persuader, are you sure this is the right place, lad?

Lightning Lad pre-occupied on his data pad writing out the next chapter of his fan fiction about Kal-El of Krypton.

Lightning Lad - ...Rule them with strength my son. *looks up* sorry I was just finishing the transmission that Jor-El sent to earth before his arrival for my story. Don't worry I used an alias for him so no copyright infringement, I called him the Traveler. let me just save this and we can go.

He hits broadcast instead of save, but before he realized his mistake his data pad syncs up with the Swan Industries Satellite. He quickly kills the broadcast, saves his work and the three of them disappear into the portal.

Some time later

Lightning Lad: This is a nice looking place, where are we?

Cosmic Boy: According to our record this is the childhood home of Lex Luthor where he, his father and mother lived most of his childhood.

Lightning Lad: I don't get it, he has that nice castle he shipped over to Smallville, why not live there?

Cosmic Boy: It doesn't matter, we obviously came to the wrong time again, let's go.

Lightning Lad holds up his ring hand triumphantly, accidentally knocking over a candelabra and setting the curtains ablaze, he quickly vanishes without realizing it.

Hours later

Lionel: Damnit, what the hell happened to our home, a fire, who left the candles lit!

Lillian: Don't worry, Lionel, let's just go stay at that castle you shipped over to Smallville for now until we sort this out

Lionel: I don't want to live in that drafty castle, you can't make me damnit!

Lillian: Here is something to take your mind off of it, it is a box made of the armor of St George. I was going to save it for Lex's birthday but take it if it'll make you feel better.

Lionel grabs the box and pets it gently

Lionel: My precious!

And there you have it, all inconsistencies solved through time travel, lol.

[workshyslacker]

That being said........this retcon about Davis being Clark's greatest enemy actually makes sense based on the following reasons:

1. Yes, Lex Luthor is Superman's frequent nemesis in the comics and the most popular........but Doomsday is his greatest nemesis because Doomsday did what Luthor and other villains have tried and failed at numerous times--he actually killed Superman, physically brought him down. No easy task for any other villain.

2. The Pilot episode skipped ahead from the Kents finding Clark to the present day with him in high school........I took that to mean they would fill in the gaps later in the series and they did with Lineage, Traveler, Veritas, and now Eternal. Maybe they intended that all along.

3. The cave painting of Naman and Sageeth is a dead giveaway that its Davis. Two heads on one body--symbolic for a savior and a destroyer coming to earth at the same time in the same craft maybe? And one head is a monster.........kind of like Doomsday is a monster.

4. Why didn't Jor-El mention Doomsday after all these years if he was such a dire threat? Simple, my theory is that in the earlier seasons maybe Clark wasn't mature enough to handle him, perhaps Jor-El intended to wait until Clark was prepared enough to handle a threat of that magnitude.........Clark would've been dead had he went up against Davis in like........Season 3 or 4. This season he has finally embraced his heroic calling, so Jor-El figured now that he is ready he'll stand a little bit more of a chance.

So I don't see it as a total retcon, sure there are plotholes..........I'm not questioning that, I just feel that these storylines have added a little more to the show's history that is all.

For a retcon, it isn't too bad.

1. "Nemesis" is overused IMO. Superman has many powerful enemies. Darkseid for another, so it doesn't bother me that DD is one of them.

2. Whatever it was, I am surprised by their resourcefulness in keeping the show going. There'll always be plotholes if you look hard enough. And the comics have been retconning for years. I'm okay with retcons if they're done well, and don't leave me in a permanent quandary.

3. I never understood why that two headed painting was supposed to be Lex and Clark. Wasn't Lex also represented by another image? DD and Clark makes more sense, both being of Kryptonian origin.

Thinking too hard makes my head hurt. So I'll go now. :p

[Tess is Smokin]

First of all, Superman WON the fight against Doomsday. There have been others that have actually beaten Clark down and would have killed him if not for the intervention of others. Since his first few appearances, he's really been shown to be a B list villian that Superman can pummel. After tonight though, I'm really not liking the whole Davisday thing. I think it's been one of the few times the show went TOO far off the source material.

I'm not buying that Doomy's tests came back normal. You'd think someone like Lionel would keep the blood around and check for DNA someday in the least. Also: HOW THE HELL CAN THE KID SPEAK ENGLISH?

As for the betrayal aspect, what trust did he ever have from Clark to betray? It doesn't work.

It IS possible that Jor-El didn't even know about Doomsday, so that part doesn't bother me.


too bad they did.

[luthorian]

I think the most shocking moment of this season was how well they managed to write this story :lol: I was expecting a lot worse but it came out pretty good. Besides I never liked the story that the painting could be about Clark and a human.

[BackToTheLies]

did Jor-El even know about Doomsday "all these years"? I took it as (maybe i'm wrong) that the Fortress construct of Jor-El pretty much gave Clark the heads up as soon as he found out about it, when Brainiac attacked the Fortress and left behind "a symbol of Doom".

[9-SOSIHTWB]

I think the most shocking moment of this season was how well they managed to write this story :lol: I was expecting a lot worse but it came out pretty good. Besides I never liked the story that the painting could be about Clark and a human.

I didn't like it either, it makes much more sense for it to be DD not Lex!!!

[SupermanRox]

I think the most shocking moment of this season was how well they managed to write this story

Yeah really! :lol: :lol: