Who is the real Judas?

[Dresden]

So in this episode we kept on hearing about Judas and a betrayal. I found it very interesting that Tess was so hard set on Davis being Judas (since he is the destroyer) but then Davis made the following statement, "But I haven't betrayed anyone" nor will he because he and Clark do not have that type of a relationship. And when Chloe put the lock on the door it clicked me that ultimately she may be the one to betray Clark and thus she will be Judas.

[Supsfan]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season

[Dresden]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season

:rotfl:

[Alexander III]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season

:rotfl: x 2

But yes, I believe Tess is Judas!

[kal-el_Girl]

chloe would rather die than betray her one and true love..Clark Kent

[AndiGirl]

Thats actually a pretty good point! :)
I kept thinking "how is Davis betraying him....they never had a connection of any kind to betray?"

So your theory could be valid! I'm hoping not...but maybe.

[LightSeeker]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season
:lol:And the one who said ED will be in more than her usual amount of epi's this year

[aceofclubs]

I dont think Davis would be Judas in the scenario, him and CK just arent close enough for a parallel to be drawn there. I definitely agree that Chloe is the betrayer.

[RPintorO]

So in this episode we kept on hearing about Judas and a betrayal. I found it very interesting that Tess was so hard set on Davis being Judas (since he is the destroyer) but then Davis made the following statement, "But I haven't betrayed anyone" nor will he because he and Clark do not have that type of a relationship. And when Chloe put the lock on the door it clicked me that ultimately she may be the one to betray Clark and thus she will be Judas.

I feel the same way....it's Chloe or Tess....but then again Clark and Tess do not have that type of a relationship either. On one of the spoilers, Chloe was going to do something that is going to change the relationship between her and Clark forever...

[Supsfan]

If I was going on Smallville canon I would pick Lex to be the Judas. As somebody pointed out how exactly does Davis betray Clark

[DorothyFan1]

So in this episode we kept on hearing about Judas and a betrayal. I found it very interesting that Tess was so hard set on Davis being Judas (since he is the destroyer) but then Davis made the following statement, "But I haven't betrayed anyone" nor will he because he and Clark do not have that type of a relationship. And when Chloe put the lock on the door it clicked me that ultimately she may be the one to betray Clark and thus she will be Judas.

It's being pointed out that Chloe is staying with Davis to protect Clark and she's sacrificing her life by doing so. So I don't see this as being a betrayal. However it's the wording in InJustice's spoiler that has me confused - "Chloe is not herself"

I still think Hanemg's speculation about Episode 20 could be Chloe's last one may prove correct in the end. Chloe's "appearance" in InJustice may not be the real Chloe. It could be Brainiac.

[Dresden]

Dorothy I did not state she was Judas right now but that she may become Judas by the finale. She is the one that Clark trust and to be betrayed you first need to trust the person. Clark does not trust Davis. Not one bit.

[Mrs. Superman]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season
:rotfl: :rotfl::rotfl:

[yomama]

Tess WISHES she was Judas--and perhaps she is, if you identify her with the idea that Judas believed he was doing a greater good by commiting an act of evil. But the word "trust" has been bandied about a lot this year. Chloe's betrayal would be the hardest hit to Clark (Lex was yesteryear's Judas ;) ).

[Diego*Chloe]

S5 episode Splinter Chloe to Clark: "I would DIE before betray you"

She is not going to betray him ;)

[RPintorO]

It's being pointed out that Chloe is staying with Davis to protect Clark and she's sacrificing her life by doing so. So I don't see this as being a betrayal. However it's the wording in InJustice's spoiler that has me confused - "Chloe is not herself"

I still think Hanemg's speculation about Episode 20 could be Chloe's last one may prove correct in the end. Chloe's "appearance" in InJustice may not be the real Chloe. It could be Brainiac.

You don't want for it to be Chloe, but it's going to be her, she's this year Judas....sorry:lol:

[jwm]

The Judas analogy doesn't fit very well any way you slice it IMO but I think Tess would be Judas since she betrayed Clark (Jesus) buy identifying him to Davis (the Roman state).

[kp1984]

Tess WISHES she was Judas--and perhaps she is, if you identify her with the idea that Judas believed he was doing a greater good by commiting an act of evil. But the word "trust" has been bandied about a lot this year. Chloe's betrayal would be the hardest hit to Clark (Lex was yesteryear's Judas ;) ).

Yeah you got a point. Judas betrayed Jesus because he thought Jesus would destory the romans but that was'nt the cause. Tess want's Clark to fight Davis.

[FlyingHigh]

I vote for Tess too -- she seems to be positioning herself on Clark's side, but for her own reasons. Plus, Judas is famous for betraying with a kiss, so I predict a big Cless lip-lock in the finale.

[Night_Hawk90]

its obvious its chloe, judas was one of Jesus' best friends/disciples as chloe is clark's best friend. Davis is no friend of clark's so theres no way he can be judas.

[morrigan01]

As someone pointed out to me - Judas' betrayal of Jesus happened because Judas actually thought he was doing the right/noble thing. He wasn't but he though he was.

Chloe thinks she's going the right/noble thing wrt Davis, and to protect Clark. I think by the end of the season, she'll realize, however, that assumption is/was way off-base.

[DorothyFan1]

Tess WISHES she was Judas--and perhaps she is, if you identify her with the idea that Judas believed he was doing a greater good by commiting an act of evil. But the word "trust" has been bandied about a lot this year. Chloe's betrayal would be the hardest hit to Clark (Lex was yesteryear's Judas ;) ).

I was intrigued and surprised they brought in religious references in this episode. Notice the young Lex had a cross on his breast plate. He even fancied himself St George slaying "the Dragon"...which ironically is Doomsday. However it was Tess' comment that really took my breath away. I hope somebody has a clip of her comments to Clark because I'd like to see it again and listen more closely to what the producers are trying to say here.

[Deana]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season:lol: Post is epic and totally true but under the rules of the post, I choose Chloe.

[Night_Hawk90]

[quote=morrigan01;4693982]As someone pointed out to me - Judas' betrayal of Jesus happened because Judas actually thought he was doing the right/noble thing. He wasn't but he though he was.

Chloe thinks she's going the right/noble thing wrt Davis, and to protect Clark. I think by the end of the season, she'll realize, however, that assumption is/was way off-base.[/quote

ITA Great post.

[melissan02]

J U D A S
C H L O E

She's now going to harbor Earth's ultimate destroyer and the one who was sent to kill Clark...and she knows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's betrayal in my book!

During the episode, I might have thought Tess, but I believe Tess is more like King Herod, Pontius Pilate, or Caiaphas in the case of SV. Chloe is Judas! No doubt!

[NinaDavis]

S5 episode Splinter Chloe to Clark: "I would DIE before betray you"

She is not going to betray him ;)

Emm, the same way Clark says to Jimmy and Chloe "your wedding day is gonna be perfect, i'm gonna make sure of it"??

[4Clana]

Chloe, she's betrayed him before.

[VAILIMA]

Actually I believe the show compared the wrong pair in the conflict concerning the Christ, Davis should be symbolic of the ultimate antagonist, satan, death, hell and the grave, and overcoming them would be Clark's greatest achievement in order to become the world's savior.

[hanemg]

S5 episode Splinter Chloe to Clark: "I would DIE before betray you"

She is not going to betray him ;)

I'm not saying that I buy into this, but I was intrigued by the phrasing of your response. I'm not a Bible scholar by any means, but at the Last Supper didn't Jesus state that one of the people there would betray him and didn't Judas quickly assure him that it would not be he?

[doodie8808]

Of course "can't do anyTHING wrong saint"chloe!:rolleyes:

[melissan02]

I'm not saying that I buy into this, but I was intrigued by the phrasing of your response. I'm not a Bible scholar by any means, but at the Last Supper didn't Jesus state that one of the people there would betray him and didn't Judas quickly assure him that it would not be he?

You're right and wrong. It wasn't Judas. Jesus knew who it was, of course, but Judas never came forward. The disciples asked among themselves who would betray him...but it wasn't specifically Judas to speak up.

[Jack-El49]

Chloe, she's betrayed him before.

Exactly...so harbouring and actually enhancing the power of Clark's mortal enemy without telling Clark doesn't count as the first time she's betrayed him.

Chloe => Judas! Who else could it be? Who else has the track record?

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


S5 episode Splinter Chloe to Clark: "I would DIE before betray you"

She is not going to betray him ;)

That was in Season 5. In Season 8, not only will she betray him, he will die because of it. Chloe => Judas. No two ways about it.

[morrigan01]

I'm not saying that I buy into this, but I was intrigued by the phrasing of your response. I'm not a Bible scholar by any means, but at the Last Supper didn't Jesus state that one of the people there would betray him and didn't Judas quickly assure him that it would not be he?

I'm not a biblical scholar either, but I think you're thinking of Peter, who told Jesus that it wouldn't be him who betrayed him - would never do so. Jesus looked at him and told him that before the night was over, Peter would deny Jesus three times. Which, of course, happened.

What happened between Jesus and Judas at the Last Supper is that Jesus actually turned to Judas at a certain point and said something like "Do what you have to do" or "Do you not have somewhere to be - do what you must" or something like that. Indicating he knew Judas was the one who would betray him, but did not say anything of knowing it was Judas to the other disciples.

[melissan02]

I'm not a biblical scholar either, but I think you're thinking of Peter, who told Jesus that it wouldn't be him who betrayed him - would never do so. Jesus looked at him and told him that before the night was over, Peter would deny Jesus three times. Which, of course, happened.

What happened between Jesus and Judas at the Last Supper is that Jesus actually turned to Judas at a certain point and said something like "Do what you have to do" or "Do you not have somewhere to be - do what you must" or something like that. Indicating he knew Judas was the one who would betray him, but did not say anything of knowing it was Judas to the other disciples.

Amen!:D You gave more detail than I did in my previous post. Good job!

[Night_Hawk90]

well if chloe is the one who turns out to be Judas, the ending is not looking to good for her as Judas ends up hanging himself after being consumed with guilt or theres the other version which is a bit to graphic to go into detail with.

[Fallen One]

It most definately is Chloe. She already is betraying him in her heart.

There's a reason why she isn't going to tell Clark anything, folks.

[Sports72Xtrm]

I'm not a biblical scholar either, but I think you're thinking of Peter, who told Jesus that it wouldn't be him who betrayed him - would never do so. Jesus looked at him and told him that before the night was over, Peter would deny Jesus three times. Which, of course, happened.

What happened between Jesus and Judas at the Last Supper is that Jesus actually turned to Judas at a certain point and said something like "Do what you have to do" or "Do you not have somewhere to be - do what you must" or something like that. Indicating he knew Judas was the one who would betray him, but did not say anything of knowing it was Judas to the other disciples.

Yeah Chloe seems to be more like Peter. I think the Judas is really Tess since she's all trying to make Clark admit what she believes is his destiny.

[melissan02]

Yeah Chloe seems to be more like Peter. I think the Judas is really Tess since she's all trying to make Clark admit what she believes is his destiny.

Chloe as Peter? No way!! She's got Judas written all over her!

Tess is more like Caiaphas or Pontias Pilate in this scenario!

[Jack-El49]

Tess was trying to get Clark to achieve his full potential. Chloe succeeded in getting Davis to reach his full potential and learned that he's more powerful than Clark. What does she do? She locks the door.

Chloe, not Tess is Judas in this tale. Clark just put his trust in the wrong person and cast his doubts toward the wrong target.

[Malicieux Toutou]

She's now going to harbor Earth's ultimate destroyer and the one who was sent to kill Clark...and she knows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's betrayal in my book!
You gotta hand it to Chloe. When she decides to betray Clark, she goes all out. First Lionel Luthor, and now "Earth's ultimate destroyer"? I guess she harbors resentment towards Clark, and every once in a while it just boils over and she has to sell him out to the most evil person on the planet.

[ClarkyBoy14]

I hadn't thought of it as being Chloe, but that's a pretty good point.

I think Jesus' words to Judas when he had come to betray Him are interesting:

"And Jesus said unto him, Friend, wherefore art thou come? Then came they, and laid hands on Jesus and took him. "

[BadToad]

None of the above. I thought the allusion and imagery was faulty. This episode felt like it was written by people who thought they were smart, and really...weren't.

[individuall]

None of the above. I thought the allusion and imagery was faulty. This episode felt like it was written by people who thought they were smart, and really...weren't.

:lol: It was written by the remaining show runners I believe..So you're right.

[Night_Hawk90]

You're right and wrong. It wasn't Judas. Jesus knew who it was, of course, but Judas never came forward. The disciples asked among themselves who would betray him...but it wasn't specifically Judas to speak up.


actually after Jesus said that one of his disciples would betray him, Judas said to Jesus:


Judas:Master, is it I? ,
Jesus: Thou hast said

[BadToad]

It was written by the remaining show runners I believe..So you're right.

I've never felt Souders/Peterson were anything special. This episode was just confirmation.

[individuall]

I've never felt Souders/Peterson were anything special. This episode was just confirmation.

ITA.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Well Chloe didn't intentionally try to make Doomsday better than Clark. She tried to kill Davis. I think I remember Judas as a figure who wanted to change Jesus' mind about the Romans. He thought Jesus was being lenient with them and wanted a violent revolution. So he set him up and thought that maybe the Romans treating him like crap would change his mind. Through out this episode, Chloe tried to kill Davis in order to protect Clark. It reminded me of Peter cutting of some Roman guards ear off when they were trying to take Jesus away while Jesus was praying or something like that. Where as Tess is the one that is all Clark you have to be this great Messiah. Clark's all I don't have to be anyone. Then Tess was all yes you will even if I have to force you. I guess Chloe can fit the bill after seeing some of her future spoilers as well but to me Tess seems more of a Judas than Chloe.

[rehana/chole]

well i am jsut plain confuse i mean judas could b chole,pete,lana,oliver,jl,martha,davis( accordance 2 clark they should hav been brothers) tess an i mean tess is realy the one pushen this rite now mayb she dies at end of season after clark tell her he is realy BDA , any my head hurt cause all they keep shoWing hinting that chole could die an i dont want tat chole is my fav character

[Waiting4Superman]

I'm not convinced that a Judas-like betrayal is actually going to go down.

Tess is the only one invoking that idea. And she is not a character I would rely on. She is interpreting Lionel's book of ravings, encountering the story for the first time. She could have easily jumped to inaccurate conclusions about the relationship between the two boys who fell to earth.

Also, in the context that Tess was using the Judas analogy/parable, she was clearly predicting what she thinks will happen between Davis and Clark. Yet as others have been pointing out, Davis and Clark don't have enough of a relationship for there to be a betrayal.

So if a Judas-like betrayal does go down, I agree that it would have to be Chloe that is doing the betraying. But again, I'm not trusting Tess to accurately foresee the pivotal situation that will ultimately force Superman to emerge and take his place as the world's savior.

Never trust Tess.

[melissan02]

actually after Jesus said that one of his disciples would betray him, Judas said to Jesus:


Judas:Master, is it I? ,
Jesus: Thou hast said

Depends on which gospel you're reading...Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
You're right that in Luke (I believe?:confused:) Jesus and Judas do have this exchange and then Judas slips out after Jesus says: "whatever you must do...do it quickly."*that line always gives me chills*

Either way...Chloe is clearly Judas in this situation. She marked her betrayal when she ascended the stairs and locked the door. Call it what you will (protecting Clark..blah, blah, blah...:rolleyes:) but she's not going to tell Clark zip, zilch, nada. She knows this beast was sent to kill Clark but she's not going to tell him---WTF? Clark's going to be blindsided and it'll be Chloe's fault!

[jayyjayy]

This is getting kinda wacky. The whole Judas thing was Tess' analogy from the story she read in the journal about two aliens who come to earth. Lionel's journal tells a Kryptonian story which is predicting the good vs evil battle, apparently by someone who knew or would know of Davis, his genetically engineered hate for Clark and their eventual confrontation.

Now whether or not Chloe betrays Clark or not and becomes a Judas of sorts remains to be seen, but she's not the one being referred to in the pages of Lionel's journal. That's seriously silly.

[Waiting4Superman]

to me Tess seems more of a Judas than Chloe.

Good point. Perhaps Tess is envisioning the role she plans to play, calling herself Judas because she realizes that she'll have to betray Clark in order to push him to become the savior she hopes he will become.

[morrigan01]

Depends on which gospel you're reading...Matthew, Mark, Luke, or John.
You're right that in Luke (I believe?:confused:) Jesus and Judas do have this exchange and then Judas slips out after Jesus says: "whatever you must do...do it quickly."*that line always gives me chills*


That's it! That's the line he said! I too always thought that line was cool, and it always gives me chills too.

[bobby1984]

i said davis but after reading some, i think it is tess, she is the one that told davis about clark, like judas told the phariess in the bible and davis is the devil, who was in the beginning good like satan was before he was cast out of heaven and became bad, tess seems be so hung up on clark but can turn on dime on him and betray him

[clois-destiny-forever]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season


:lol:And the one who said ED will be in more than her usual amount of epi's this year

:rotfl::rotfl::rotfl:

So true!

[jwm]

None of the above. I thought the allusion and imagery was faulty. This episode felt like it was written by people who thought they were smart, and really...weren't.
Heh. So true. And then they screwed up the cave mythology while they were at it. :mad:

[melissan02]

Good point. Perhaps Tess is envisioning the role she plans to play, calling herself Judas because she realizes that she'll have to betray Clark in order to push him to become the savior she hopes he will become.

Eh...no. Now that I think about it, I believe Tess is more like Caiaphas, the high priest, in this scenario. She's plotting and scheming in order to get Clark to become this savior/hero she believes him to be. Tess however doesn't want Clark arrested, tried, or killed like Caiaphas did Jesus, but she's orchestrating this whole thing in order for him to become the savior/hero.
Chloe's still the one who has betrayed Clark. Not Tess.

[haydenclaireheroes]

No one wants it to be chloe and i defently do not want it be her. But the show states that Davis is Judus so wouldn't it be him in the end. See chloe is the most confusing charecter in this show becuase she is always chaging for example she

[Diego*Chloe]

No one wants it to be chloe and i defently do not want it be her. But the show states that Davis is Judus so wouldn't it be him in the end. See chloe is the most confusing charecter in this show becuase she is always chaging for example she


She is always in a grey area!! thats why she is far more intersting :D.

[spotteddog]

When Tess said Davis was the Judas of the story, I immediately went back to the days of Sister Mary Elephant and Sunday School. I said, "that does not make sense. Davis might be the Romans, Davis might be the Devil, but he ain't Judas".

Tess fills the Judas role in my mind. Tess believes in "Clark-the-Savior", but was disappointed that the RBB was not handling the serial killer issues. Tess sees Clark as being capable of being more, and believes that Davis is the way to drive Clark to that level. So, she rats Clark out to Davis as being the one he needs to destroy - thus, Judas.

If my religious training was correct, all Clark needs to do is smack Davis across the knuckles with a ruler and then he will behave.

[Kryptochloe]

For me it was a clear hint to what Chloe might do... what TPTB want for us to believe..

[Shadowlord367]

Love the biblical references, absolutely love it. It started in season one with Clark being strung up in the cornfield, and I think its nice plot symmetry that their doing it with Doomsday now and making it more important to Clark's destiny than his battle with Lex. We can't have the writers openly admit that last season was more crucial than this, so in that case I don't think they're contradicting the original Kawatche mythology, they're rectifying it :).

Curious to see if they stick to their biblical symbolism here. With the Justice League and Legion as the Apostles?

[monel49]

The writers are also doing something consciously or unconsciously about Davis' character. By making him the Judas character, they keep Doomsday from being the equal of Clark as if there are two equally balanced forces of good and evil in the universe. Doomsday is evil, but not equal; instead, he (like evil in our universe) simply reacts to the more basic goodness present in reality. Heavy, I know, but kind of cool when you think of it.

I too, like the religion references. They really reflect the Superman mythos anyway and the writers do themselves and the story well to play this angle--or angel-- up.

[SGuthrie27]

Yeah, Chloe would never betray Clark willfully and knowingly. She loves him, and would do anything to protect him and his secret. She sometimes does things that we see as being foolish, but you know she's following her heart and doing what she THINKS is right. Thus, I can't see her being Judas. Judas sold out Jesus Christ for thirty pieces of silver. Chloe would never give up Clark for any price.

Davis doesn't seem to be the Judas type either. Judas was one of the twelve disciples -- one of Jesus's closest followers who inevitably turned away and sold him out for greed and selfish gain. Davis isn't friends with Clark by any stretch of the imagination, and none of the rest of the analogy there really applies either.

To me, Lex is the biggest Judas in the series. He was originally Clark's friend and is destined to be his greatest rival. Judas wasn't a murderous monster. He was a cold, calculating guy who tried to figure out what he could get out of selling out someone he'd called friend and teacher. Lex is much more that sort of archetype.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[RPintorO]

Yeah, Chloe would never betray Clark willfully and knowingly. She loves him, and would do anything to protect him and his secret. She sometimes does things that we see as being foolish, but you know she's following her heart and doing what she THINKS is right. Thus, I can't see her being Judas. Judas sold out Jesus Christ for thirty pieces of silver. Chloe would never give up Clark for any price.

Davis doesn't seem to be the Judas type either. Judas was one of the twelve disciples -- one of Jesus's closest followers who inevitably turned away and sold him out for greed and selfish gain. Davis isn't friends with Clark by any stretch of the imagination, and none of the rest of the analogy there really applies either.

To me, Lex is the biggest Judas in the series. He was originally Clark's friend and is destined to be his greatest rival. Judas wasn't a murderous monster. He was a cold, calculating guy who tried to figure out what he could get out of selling out someone he'd called friend and teacher. Lex is much more that sort of archetype.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

Sorry..Chloe is JUDAS!!!!!!:rotfl:

[SpiritedDiva]

What I think is so laughable is the fact that so many here talk as if Chloe is known as a betrayer. Doing something one time before in eight years is not what I would call a track record. :rolleyes: Secondly, Chloe was a young and stupid teenager when she made the deal with Lionel; a mistake she regrets and has learned from.

As far as the last scene goes, I saw Davis manipulating Chloe. She is very confused and conflicted right now. You notice the moment Davis said he was immortal the first person she thought of was Clark and his safety. This shows me that betrayel of her best friend was the last thing on her mind.

I'm not saying that what Chloe is doing is the right thing, but it is human. She cares about Davis, but she cares for Clark more, as evidence of the the kryptonite scene. Davis told her that being around her calmed him, ding ding ding.... By protecting Davis from himself she is protecting Clark. Now, I don't know why she would keep it a secret from Clark, but she may not be in the right frame of mind right now. I know I can't blame her for that considering the year she has had.

I think we should just wait and see what happens. We haven't seen the next epis yet.
No matter Chloe's problems, I would say she is far from being Judas.

[Bizarrolover]

Chloe should have warned Clark that Davis is still alive. I can't believe she thinks this is going to work in the long term. She and Davis can have their basement honeymoom for a few days, but soon her charm is not going to soothe be beast any longer and she will put Clark (and the rest of humanity) in mortal danger.

At least Oliver knows about Doomsday and he can warn Clark about it.

[Lilah]

Chloe is Judas. And after tonight, even more so. Judas hung himself.... I guess that tells us Chloe's fate.

[morrigan01]

Look, going by scripture, neither Davis nor Tess fit the role of Judas.

1. Judas was a follower of Jesus. One of the 12 Disciples, meaning he was in Jesus' trust.

Clark has never trusted Tess or Davis, as was clearly shown in this episode. They were never "followers" of Clark's.

Chloe, however? Oh yeah.

2. Judas didn't betray Jesus out of malice or hate. He thought he was doing the right and noble thing when he did what he did. It was why, after Jesus was crucified, Judas was so wracked with guilt that he committed suicide. (The most common tale being that he hung himself.)

Do I have to spell it out that this is the mindset Chloe has has wrt protecting Clark? She will always do what she thinks is right to protect Clark's secret and life, and she thinks trying to help Davis is right and noble. She's wrong, however. And it's not hard to guess that she's not even going to tell Clark she's got Davis locked in her basement.

Judas' betrayal wasn't done out of malice. And neither is what Chloe is doing out of malice.

So, honestly, the biblical analogy used in this episode only really works with Chloe. Though, honestly, I won't put it past the SV writers to actually get that analogy wrong. But, again, going by the actual Passion story, Tess and Davis don't fit Judas at all.

[CLOISMAN]

In the Bible, Judas betrayed Jesus because he thought that if he turn him over to his enemies, that Jesus would use his power to save himself and reveal to the world that he was truly the Messiah. I believe that TESS is making herself to be Judas. Tess admires and wants Clark to become the "savior" he was sent to Earth to become. She is going to turn Clark over to his enemy (Doomsday), so he can reveal himself and become the protector of our planet.....Superman!!!

[IHeartClois]

the real judas to me is the person who okayed the lana storyline this season


lmao!

[vikingjedi]

It's definitely Tess.

[ChronX4]

IMO it's Tess' crazy idea, she's kind of the oposite of Lex.
Lex tried to take the roll of hero, she feels she must push Clark to become a "true" savior.

[The Dark Knight74]

Davis.

[ginnyfan]

There is no Judas... yet. If anyone would be a Judas it would be Chloe. Davis is not Clark's friend. Chloe is harboring Davis when she knows he only exists to kill Clark. But it's not like Clark didn't tell her there had to be another way anyway. He doesn't want to kill Davis. However, if Chloe doesn't tell Clark that Davis is alive then Doomsday could blindside Clark. Then again, Chloe is taking Davis' word that staying near her keeps him from transforming. I think she cares for Davis also, but she could still say that she's harboring him to save Clark. *shrug*

[Lilah]

In the Bible, Judas betrayed Jesus because he thought that if he turn him over to his enemies, that Jesus would use his power to save himself and reveal to the world that he was truly the Messiah. I believe that TESS is making herself to be Judas. Tess admires and wants Clark to become the "savior" he was sent to Earth to become. She is going to turn Clark over to his enemy (Doomsday), so he can reveal himself and become the protector of our planet.....Superman!!!

Judas betrayed Jesus trying to protect him. Or so he thought he was. Chloe is the Judas. And I bet they'll write a Chlark kiss for kicks in the season finale too...

[borednow]

Other: No one, because this is not the story of Christ...

[SnowBird]

I think Tess will have a big part in pointing Doomsday towards Clark to make him use his powers so she can prove he is the Traveler. She may become a follower of Clark thinking he is a God among men and therefore she could be a Judas. She probably thinks Clark will kill Doomsday just like Judas thought that Jesus would perform a miracle for himself.

Davis is not Judas but rather the source used to kill Clark.

Chloe would never intentionally betray Clark and give him up to Doomsday.

[Cyclonekat]

I would say it's Chloe. I mean, Tess, wishes she was the betrayer...or is making herself out to be, but as it's been said, Chloe is the one who is close to Clark, and represents humanity, and can therefore be the only one to betray him as a Judas with the characters presented for us to choose from. I believe Doomsday, if we're following with the christ analogy/story, would more symbolize death itself.

Since Judas betrays Jesus and then faces death, and eventually conquers it...or as my Christianity teacher would say says "@$%& you to death..." (and then he'll launch off about that's why Christianity is such a compelling religion, it beats death itself...but enough from my oh so interesting life as a religion major/student).

So yeah. I think Chloe=Judas ....Davis=Death embodied.

[Exedore]

Jimmy will become Judas by doing something stupid and inadvertently setting Doomy on Clark. :D

Or Oliver will become Judas coz he's just fed up with Clark being nothing but a boring old BDA and decides that he needs a big kick in the butt. Literally. :\

Tess is Mary Magdalene. The controversial female disciple who is also a bit crazy in this version. :cool:

[Tess is Smokin]

Chloe even a blind man could see that.

[Jack-El49]

It's clear to me that Chloe is the Judas figure - a believer and person close to Clark - who ultimately betrays him with misguided intentions of helping him.

It's not the first time, either. Except last time, her motivation was scorn.

[amalie]

As soon as Tess mentioned Judas I immediately thought of Chloe and I stuck to it. The ending of the episode confirmed it.

[BackToTheLies]

the dead giveaway that it's Chloe was Tess' line in the barn about lies and "the more you love someone, the harder it is"

[workshyslacker]

Judas:

Chloe: heroworships Clark. Thinks she's protecting him when taking Davis' side

Tess: heroworships Clark. Thinks she's helping him find his destiny by harbouring Davis.

Take your pick.

[Tess is Smokin]

Judas:

Chloe: heroworships Clark. Thinks she's protecting him when taking Davis' side

Tess: heroworships Clark. Thinks she's helping him find his destiny by harbouring Davis.

Take your pick.


But Clark doesn't trust Tess in the first place so how could she betray him?

[workshyslacker]

But Clark doesn't trust Tess in the first place so how could she betray him?

Well, he was warming to her in "Turbulence". :p But IA, Chloe is a better choice.

[roccanater]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season

That is awesome.

[9-SOSIHTWB]

I think it's Tess!
Didn't she tell Clark that he could trust her with anything and she's nothing like Lex???
After BULLETPROOF I though she was a good character, now I'm not so sure!!

[Mickey_Bickey]

I dont think Davis would be Judas in the scenario, him and CK just arent close enough for a parallel to be drawn there. I definitely agree that Chloe is the betrayer.

This is my sentiments exactly. Judas and Jesus were very close, and Clark and Davis have never had that type of relationship, not even close. I didn't think this was a good comparison for Davis and Clark.

I do think however depending on what happens in the next couple of episodes, that this does apply to Chloe's character. She's the only one close enough to Clark in this scenario to be the one to "betray" him that will result in dyer consequences.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----


J U D A S
C H L O E

She's now going to harbor Earth's ultimate destroyer and the one who was sent to kill Clark...and she knows it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's betrayal in my book!

During the episode, I might have thought Tess, but I believe Tess is more like King Herod, Pontius Pilate, or Caiaphas in the case of SV. Chloe is Judas! No doubt!

That's exactly it, Melissa, and you have to know your Religion to be able to intelligently say that Davis is not Judas. You have to know that Judas was very close to Christ, and he forgave Judas. He knew he would betray him.

Did you see the look on Clark's face when Chloe put her hand up to Davis while he was dying? That look clued Clark in (as well as the audience) that Chloe is going to end up betraying him.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


Well, he was warming to her in "Turbulence". :p But IA, Chloe is a better choice.

Charlotte, Chloe is the only choice simply because she is the only one close enough to Clark who knows his secret as Judas did with Christ. The whole analogy only points to one person, and as I said to Melissa when Chloe touched his hand and bowed her head in agony when he was dying it gave not only Clark a peek at what's to come but also the audience with a shift in the relationship.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----


As soon as Tess mentioned Judas I immediately thought of Chloe and I stuck to it. The ending of the episode confirmed it.

I agree! The Judas anology didn't make sense at all for Davis or Tess for that matter, only Chloe.

[BackToTheLies]

This is my sentiments exactly. Judas and Jesus were very close, and Clark and Davis have never had that type of relationship, not even close. I didn't think this was a good comparison for Davis and Clark.

I do think however depending on what happens in the next couple of episodes, that this does apply to Chloe's character. She's the only one close enough to Clark in this scenario to be the one to "betray" him that will result in dyer consequences.

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----



That's exactly it, Melissa, and you have to know your Religion to be able to intelligently say that Davis is not Judas. You have to know that Judas was very close to Christ, and he forgave Judas. He knew he would betray him.

Did you see the look on Clark's face when Chloe put her hand up to Davis while he was dying? That look clued Clark in (as well as the audience) that Chloe is going to end up betraying him.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----



Charlotte, Chloe is the only choice simply because she is the only one close enough to Clark who knows his secret as Judas did with Christ. The whole analogy only points to one person, and as I said to Melissa when Chloe touched his hand and bowed her head in agony when he was dying it gave not only Clark a peek at what's to come but also the audience with a shift in the relationship.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----



I agree! The Judas anology didn't make sense at all for Davis or Tess for that matter, only Chloe.

I agree that Judas = Chloe but I disagree that it takes much intelligence and or/knowledge at all to see what is spelt out right on the screen for everyone.

However it's also to be taken with a pinch of salt considering that this parallel has only been thrown in by Tess. So it is not necessarily a self-fullfilling prophecy with Chloe, unlike Judas.

What I did find interesting was Chloe's *****iness and plain disrespect with Clark in this ep. 1. where she tells him she needed a shoulder to cry on and barbs him for not being there (so much for your support of Lois, Chloe)...

and 2. Her repeated refusal to back down under Clark's insistence that there is another way other than killing.

[Mickey_Bickey]

I agree that Judas = Chloe but I disagree that it takes much intelligence and or/knowledge at all to see what is spelt out right on the screen for everyone.

However it's also to be taken with a pinch of salt considering that this parallel has only been thrown in by Tess. So it is not necessarily a self-fullfilling prophecy with Chloe, unlike Judas.

What I did find interesting was Chloe's *****iness and plain disrespect with Clark in this ep. 1. where she tells him she needed a shoulder to cry on and barbs him for not being there (so much for your support of Lois, Chloe)...

and 2. Her repeated refusal to back down under Clark's insistence that there is another way other than killing.


What I meant by speaking intelligently about this is that you have a knowledge of the history of Judas and Christ. People have heard of them of course, but you have to be able to differentiate between the characters and how they parallel this particular analogy, and the only character that does is Chloe.

I was very suprised by the way Chloe was acting not only with Clark but also with Davis. Her marriage just ended two episodes ago, to see her flirting and giggling with Davis was unsettling for me.

Clearly, the writers are distancing her character from Clark's and that refusal was yet another example here of how she's moving away from Clark and getting closer to Davis. Did you notice the look on Clark's face when Chloe put her hand up to Davis' in the container as he was dying? That scene screamed that Chloe is going to betray him IMO.

[amalie]

I think the final scene clearly signified the beginning of her betrayal. She locked the door which was evidence enough, even without the dramatic style and music to confirm it. Chloe chose to trust Davis over Clark, she may believe she's doing the right thing but we know otherwise, it fits the Judas story perfectly.

[costas22]

I think the final scene clearly signified the beginning of her betrayal. She locked the door which was evidence enough, even without the dramatic style and music to confirm it. Chloe chose to trust Davis over Clark, she may believe she's doing the right thing but we know otherwise, it fits the Judas story perfectly.

It's difficult to say.I think that Kelly and Brian picked a bad analogy for Clark and Davis' story.Judas might have been more apropo for Clark and Lex.But Chloe is not Judas.She does this because she feels that it's the only way to keep Doomsday at bay.She told Clark that she would do whatever it takes to protect the world from Doomsday.

[SupermanRox]

That's exactly it, Melissa, and you have to know your Religion to be able to intelligently say that Davis is not Judas. You have to know that Judas was very close to Christ, and he forgave Judas. He knew he would betray him.

Did you see the look on Clark's face when Chloe put her hand up to Davis while he was dying? That look clued Clark in (as well as the audience) that Chloe is going to end up betraying him.

Exactly! Chloe is definitely Judas.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Exactly! Chloe is definitely Judas.

If you asked me last week would Chloe be capable of this, I would have probably said no, but after last night's episode there is no doubt in my mind that she will!

[RaniaLovesClois]

Chloe!!!!!!!!! Wait .... and you will see...

[Autumn]

Neither Chloe or Davis as Judas makes sense. It's a ridiculous comparison. Davis tried to kill himself but can't die (he's certainly not some trusted follower) and therefore cannot betray Clark. He can kill him against his will, but...again weak comparison. As for Chloe, everything she's done is to try and save Clark. She would never betray him.

[RedKRules]

Neither Chloe or Davis as Judas makes sense. It's a ridiculous comparison. Davis tried to kill himself but can't die (he's certainly not some trusted follower) and therefore cannot betray Clark. He can kill him against his will, but...again weak comparison. As for Chloe, everything she's done is to try and save Clark. She would never betray him.

I totally agree, this thread´s question goes against all logic of what really has happened on the show ..... :\:\

[beresford_st]

I'd hate to see the writers turn Chloe into Judas. But really, all Clark has ever done is use her while chasing after either lana, alicia or now lois.

[stenochick]

During the episode, I thought it was Tess because in the Gospels, Judas intended to force Jesus' hand by betraying him to the religious authorities. In his mind, he wanted Jesus to be more of a literal Messiah/King of the Jews who would overthrow their Roman oppressors.

I picture Tess forcing Clark's hand by using that device she had at the end of the episode. Her actions will create the environment for the ultimate showdown between Clark and Doomsday so that Clark can fulfill Tess' version of his destiny.

[Rift]

The producers.

[stenochick]

chloe would rather die than betray her one and true love..Clark Kent

Yes. In that regard, she will play the role of Peter to Clark's Jesus in this passion play. Somehow her actions will betray Clark despite her never wanting that to happen.

Davis is not Judas as he is not part of Clark's trusted inner circle. Davis/Doomsday, I suppose, would be Satan.

[RedKRules]

The producers.

I totally agree on this one :rotfl:

[stenochick]

S5 episode Splinter Chloe to Clark: "I would DIE before betray you"

She is not going to betray him ;)

That's exactly what Peter told Jesus in the Gospels before he denied three times.

[workshyslacker]

During the episode, I thought it was Tess because in the Gospels, Judas intended to force Jesus' hand by betraying him to the religious authorities. In his mind, he wanted Jesus to be more of a literal Messiah/King of the Jews who would overthrow their Roman oppressors.


IA. This is the point I was making in another thread about Tess forcing Clark's hand. Judas worshipped Jesus. He wanted him to smite the Romans and save their people. But he did not count on Jesus' (apparent) passivity and that's why he hung himself when he was overcome with guilt.

I'm not sure if Davis is more likely to be the Antichrist, because in a way, he is the "son" of Zod (no pun intended) who is also Clark's enemy. The way I see it, Zod and Jor el are two sides of the same coin, both being "fathers" of two adversaries, and if Clark is a Christ-like figure, Jor el must be God.

[RedKRules]

Hhuhhhhhhhhh are you guys comparing Jesus´s life to Smallville???? seriously ....let´s not stretchhhh that much..

[Tess is Smokin]

IA. This is the point I was making in another thread about Tess forcing Clark's hand. Judas worshipped Jesus. He wanted him to smite the Romans and save their people. But he did not count on Jesus' (apparent) passivity and that's why he hung himself when he was overcome with guilt.

I'm not sure if Davis is more likely to be the Antichrist, because in a way, he is the "son" of Zod (no pun intended) who is also Clark's enemy. The way I see it, Zod and Jor el are two sides of the same coin, both being "fathers" of two adversaries, and if Clark is a Christ-like figure, Jor el must beGod.


all this religion makes my head hurt...

[workshyslacker]

Hhuhhhhhhhhh are you guys comparing Jesus´s life to Smallville???? seriously ....let´s not stretchhhh that much..

:lol:I know what you mean. I'm not taking this seriously, its all just speculation. However, this isn't the first time the Supes/Christ analogy has ben used; look at Superman Returns.

[Autumn]

Hhuhhhhhhhhh are you guys comparing Jesus´s life to Smallville???? seriously ....let´s not stretchhhh that much..

I can somewhat see the Jesus comparison because Superman has always had religious undertones, but Tess' comparison to Judas was a bit of a stretch and over the top. I can see that she could be more of the Judas character though than Chloe or Davis. Davis makes absolutely no sense at all, and almost made me think Tess was somewhat unintelligent, even though I know she isn't.

[workshyslacker]

all this religion makes my head hurt...

I'm clearly bored. Don't worry, I'll be back to being facetious soon. This is just a blip.:p

[Tess is Smokin]

:lol:I know what you mean. I'm not taking this seriously, its all just speculation. However, this isn't the first time the Supes/Christ analogy has ben used; look at Superman Returns.


NO DO NOT! Look at superman Returns..



That's horrible advice Charlotte! :P

[luthorian]

Tess. Well at least she wants to be..

[Tess is Smokin]

Tess. Well at least she wants to be..


why has she said so?

[workshyslacker]

NO DO NOT! Look at superman Returns..

That's horrible advice Charlotte! :P


Come on, Jon. It wasn't all that bad. What with all the love triangles, absent fathers, romantic dra-ma, and cumbersome Bible analogies, I thought it was quite good. It had BRouth and his dulcet tones. :D

[RedKRules]

:lol:I know what you mean. I'm not taking this seriously, its all just speculation. However, this isn't the first time the Supes/Christ analogy has ben used; look at Superman Returns.

:lol: Superman Returns was so mehhhhh ..... in my POV

[snookie16]

I voted for Chloe although there is a possibility that is can be Tess. My gut is leaning more towards Chloe because I feel that we are getting the old Chloe back from the early seasons. Chloe to me seems the more likely canidate for the betrayal of Clark. Tess did say to Clark , "it the one that loves you the most that will betray you." That is a big indicator that it is Chloe also remember that Chloe and Clark friendship was on the rocks toward the end of season two and beginning of season three because of Lionel Luthor. This whole storyline with Tess is bring things back to Lional mess.

Although I do think that it could be Tess two because we do not know her full intentions. She is playing like a friend to Clark with a hidden agenda. She has Lionel's journal. She has done her research on this topic so we got a possibility it is her too.

I gathered all this information from watching the episode again this morning and watching old episodes online from the early seasons. This season got me intrigued.

[Autumn]

Come on, Jon. It wasn't all that bad. What with all the love triangles, absent fathers, romantic dra-ma, and cumbersome Bible analogies, I thought it was quite good. It had BRouth and his dulcet tones. :D

I liked Brandon Routh as Superman personally and the movie was good (could have been better), but I didn't like Lois. Go figure.

I want another movie but with a whole new take from the old movies and a new Lois!

[RedKRules]

Come on, Jon. It wasn't all that bad. What with all the love triangles, absent fathers, romantic dra-ma, and cumbersome Bible analogies, I thought it was quite good. It had BRouth and his dulcet tones. :D

BRouth was the best part of it ...... the tigths looked so well on him :eek::rotfl:

[Tess is Smokin]

Come on, Jon. It wasn't all that bad. What with all the love triangles, absent fathers, romantic dra-ma, and cumbersome Bible analogies, I thought it was quite good. It had BRouth and his dulcet tones. :D

Bible ... sure why not, but the movie just felt totally OFF for me.
Love triangle.. on superman? Clark, Lois and Diana suuure why not! but Clark Lois and some Richard? I think ill pass :P


I just wasn't feeling it.. Lois was off... and way to short IMO, only character spot on was Jimmy i really liked him-.. and what was up with Lois totally dissing Clark all the time.. Man i wish Reeve may he rest in peace:(


Anyhow..

This is what the movie should have been!


http://www.kryptonsite.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123840

[FlashInSV]

The real Judas to me is the person who okayed the Lana storyline this season

:D :rotfl: :rotfl: :D
INSPIRED!

[workshyslacker]

Bible ... sure why not, but the movie just felt totally OFF for me.
Love triangle.. on superman? Clark, Lois and Diana. not Clark Lois and some punk!


James Marsden is quite delicious. :D I really didn't know whom to cheer.



I just wasn't feeling it.. Lois was off... and way to short IMO, only character spot on was Jimmy i really liked him-.. and what was up with Lois totally dissing Clark all the time.. Man i wish Reeve may he rest in peace:(
Everyone was good, except KBosworth and maybe some hammy acting from KSpacey. I miss CReeve. Best Superman actor in my opinion (and best-looking too).


BRouth was the best part of it ...... the tigths looked so well on him :eek::rotfl:

Agreed. Not too displeasing on the eye. And I don't think it was a muscle suit!

[stenochick]

It's difficult to say.I think that Kelly and Brian picked a bad analogy for Clark and Davis' story.Judas might have been more apropo for Clark and Lex.But Chloe is not Judas.She does this because she feels that it's the only way to keep Doomsday at bay.She told Clark that she would do whatever it takes to protect the world from Doomsday.

I thought that, too. But I think PS were giving us a head fake with the Davis = Judas analogy. It is now for us to speculate which of Clark's inner circle, including Tess, will be the Judas.

[FlashInSV]

We are not yet sure if Chloe will keep Davis' return a secret. Then again, this IS Smallville, after all, so we have to take their word for it. It is rather complicating, who is the Judas in this story.

I don't think Davis is Judas, because he can't betray Clark if he does what nature programmed him to do, after all, Clark never put his trust in him in the first place!

Chloe could be the one to betray Clark, seeing as she's the one Clark trusts, but it isn't an immediate betrayal. Chloe is putting her trust in Davis, she wants to believe that he can change, that SHE can change him and in order to give this a shot, she is taking a risk, Clark's life being at stake. I am not sure this could classify as betrayal at all.

I think the finale will determine who's Judas and who's not - and if there really is one.

[Tess is Smokin]

James Marsden is quite delicious. :D I really didn't know whom to cheer.

Everyone was good, except KBosworth and maybe some hammy acting from KSpacey. I miss CReeve. Best Superman actor in my opinion (and best-looking too).



Agreed. Not too displeasing on the eye. And I don't think it was a muscle suit!


cmon .... all he did was lift a rock...... even i can do that :rolleyes: ..

[workshyslacker]

cmon .... all he did was lift a rock...... even i can do that :rolleyes: ..

About a billion times your size?

I didn't know you were that small... Joking.:p

[Tess is Smokin]

About a billion times your size?

I didn't know you were that small... Joking.:p


Ha..ha..;)

They could at least had an real enemy..? yeh i know Lex was there.. but cmon you know what most fans want to see a big a** fight! not some dude lifting a rock. the Lex card has been played far too many times it's time they bring the two big DD to the big screen. or reboot the entire story like they did with batman.


I really hope they redeem superman like the did with Batman.

[workshyslacker]

Ha..ha..;)

They could at least had an real enemy..? yeh i know Lex was there.. but cmon you know what most fans want to see a big a** fight! not some dude lifting a rock. the Lex card has been played far too many times it's time they bring the two big DD to the big screen. or reboot the entire story like they did with batman.


Get Lex to wear his supersuit and then we'll talk.



I really hope they redeem superman like the did with Batman.

TDK is on a different playing field. Superman going that dark would lose something IMO.

[Tess is Smokin]

Get Lex to wear his supersuit and then we'll talk.



TDK is on a different playing field. Superman going that dark would lose something IMO.

Yeh totally agree i just think it would be great if they rebooted the story, I didn't mean that they should do it "TDK style" i meant they could just do it all over again and do much much better

[Smallville Vamp]

Chloe, she even let it slip she needed a shoulder and Clark wasn't there for her. Of course he took the EASY WAY OUT and ignored it like most things HE doesn't want to face head on. Nothing surprising there, it's the way he's always been but it's about time he learns to face ALL of his problems as they occur and not let them keep building up!

[Tess is Smokin]

Chloe, she even let it slip she needed a shoulder and Clark wasn't there for her. Of course he took the EASY WAY OUT and ignored it like most things HE doesn't want to face head on. Nothing surprising there, it's the way he's always been but it's about time he learns to face ALL of his problems as they occur and not let them keep building up!


sounds like your blaming Clark


when Chloe is the one who actually does the betraying part.

[Iluvgreen]

i hope that it isn't Chloe.

[SuperV83]

I'm going to have to go with LEX as being Judas.

Lex and Clark were best friends. When Lex turned on Clark, he believed in his twisted mind that he would save the world from freaks (i.e. Clark). Obviously, that hatred is fueled even more with the whole Lana thing, but Lex really believed that he was doing the world a favour by trying to expose Clark.

Davis, although he will prove to be a major adversary of Clarks, he really doesn't come into affect until much later in Superman’s life. He's not something that Superman has to battle with and go through trials like he does with Lex. It's through Lex's actions that Clark finally decides to man-up and be to who it is he is destined to be.

As for Chloe, I don't see her locking herself in with Davis as a betrayal. I see it more as a sacrifice. Chloe would literally die to protect Clark and I believe that will be her final gift to him in the end...her life for his and the world.
And yes, I believe that Chloe will probably be the final death on this show. The final and most tragic. It’s inevitable, whether we like it or not…. But it will also be her greatest legacy.

IMHO :o

[Davis Bloome]

I guess in case of Davis and Chloe, she is the Judas. It's not like she betrays Clark for totally irrational reasons. She can't help it. She's in love with the wrong man.

[Estro-gen X]

chloe is the judas, Doomsday would be pilate the guy who sentenced Jesus to death

[FlyingHigh]

As someone pointed out to me - Judas' betrayal of Jesus happened because Judas actually thought he was doing the right/noble thing. He wasn't but he though he was.

Chloe thinks she's going the right/noble thing wrt Davis, and to protect Clark. I think by the end of the season, she'll realize, however, that assumption is/was way off-base.


You're right and wrong. It wasn't Judas. Jesus knew who it was, of course, but Judas never came forward. The disciples asked among themselves who would betray him...but it wasn't specifically Judas to speak up.



During the episode, I thought it was Tess because in the Gospels, Judas intended to force Jesus' hand by betraying him to the religious authorities. In his mind, he wanted Jesus to be more of a literal Messiah/King of the Jews who would overthrow their Roman oppressors.

I picture Tess forcing Clark's hand by using that device she had at the end of the episode. Her actions will create the environment for the ultimate showdown between Clark and Doomsday so that Clark can fulfill Tess' version of his destiny.


Look, going by scripture, neither Davis nor Tess fit the role of Judas.

1. Judas was a follower of Jesus. One of the 12 Disciples, meaning he was in Jesus' trust.

Clark has never trusted Tess or Davis, as was clearly shown in this episode. They were never "followers" of Clark's.

Chloe, however? Oh yeah.

2. Judas didn't betray Jesus out of malice or hate. He thought he was doing the right and noble thing when he did what he did. It was why, after Jesus was crucified, Judas was so wracked with guilt that he committed suicide. (The most common tale being that he hung himself.)

Do I have to spell it out that this is the mindset Chloe has has wrt protecting Clark? She will always do what she thinks is right to protect Clark's secret and life, and she thinks trying to help Davis is right and noble. She's wrong, however. And it's not hard to guess that she's not even going to tell Clark she's got Davis locked in her basement.

Judas' betrayal wasn't done out of malice. And neither is what Chloe is doing out of malice.

So, honestly, the biblical analogy used in this episode only really works with Chloe. Though, honestly, I won't put it past the SV writers to actually get that analogy wrong. But, again, going by the actual Passion story, Tess and Davis don't fit Judas at all.


Ok, so after reading all this I did a quick search to check my memory, and while the idea of Judas betraying Jesus in order to push him to a greater destiny may be a larger cultural meme than I give it credit for, it's not supported in the Gospel (aka Biblical canon). In both Matthew and John the writers clearly state that Judas' motivation was greed:

John 12:1-4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

Matthew 26:14-16
14 Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.


So while the SV writers may be borrowing from the cultural fanwank regarding Judas, they are clearly not borrowing from the actual Bible in terms of ANY character's motivation (with the possible exception of Tess, who as I mentioned earlier seems to be positioning herself on Team Kent, but for her own reasons).

A better analogy, if Chloe was meant to be portrayed as Judas, would have been Brutus' betray of Caesar: as I recall, Brutus thought he was killing Caesar in order to save Rome from the tyranny of dictatorship. AND as I recall, Dante presents both Brutus and Judas side-by-side in the lowest circle of hell, where the traitors are held.

Davis as Judas -- or Brutus for that matter? Makes no sense at all.

[Minela]

Davis can't be Judas. Davis kills Clark/Superman, and Judas didn't kill Jesus it was the Romans. I think Davis/Doomsday represents the Romans and not Judas. Judas could be one of three people. Chloe, Tess or Lex. I doubt it's Lex since he is no longer on the show. It could be Tess since she's the obvious choice, she has it in her to betray. However, I think she is rather Lex' Judas and not Clark's. So, that leaves Chloe. Premo choice of Judas since it would be the most shocking and dramatic. So, I think it might be Chloe.

[amalie]

Ok, so after reading all this I did a quick search to check my memory, and while the idea of Judas betraying Jesus in order to push him to a greater destiny may be a larger cultural meme than I give it credit for, it's not supported in the Gospel (aka Biblical canon). In both Matthew and John the writers clearly state that Judas' motivation was greed:

John 12:1-4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

Matthew 26:14-16
14 Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.


So while the SV writers may be borrowing from the cultural fanwank regarding Judas, they are clearly not borrowing from the actual Bible in terms of ANY character's motivation (with the possible exception of Tess, who as I mentioned earlier seems to be positioning herself on Team Kent, but for her own reasons).

A better analogy, if Chloe was meant to be portrayed as Judas, would have been Brutus' betray of Caesar: as I recall, Brutus thought he was killing Caesar in order to save Rome from the tyranny of dictatorship. AND as I recall, Dante presents both Brutus and Judas side-by-side in the lowest circle of hell, where the traitors are held.

Davis as Judas -- or Brutus for that matter? Makes no sense at all.

I did the same thing and double checked my Bible knowledge. You're right, Judas' motives are never really clearly defined. We're left to assume that it was greed, Luke's gospel goes as far as to say that satan enters Judas but there's nothing about him betraying Jesus because he thinks he's doing the right thing.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Neither Chloe or Davis as Judas makes sense. It's a ridiculous comparison. Davis tried to kill himself but can't die (he's certainly not some trusted follower) and therefore cannot betray Clark. He can kill him against his will, but...again weak comparison. As for Chloe, everything she's done is to try and save Clark. She would never betray him.

But she's the only one in the "Judas" analogy that makes sense. It's because she's been Clark's "right hand man" so to speak just like Judas was part of Jesus' inner circle. If you're going to delve deeper into this much mentioned scenario then there is no other character besides Chloe's who can be compared to Judas.

I agree, that Davis or Tess makes no sense at all, because neither are that close to Clark.

[NIGHTRAVENXLR1]

i went four others.
and now why.
ITS SHELBY
he is in offscreen ville preparing to bring clark down big time. bet you know one will see this comming. DD is a joke compared to the horrer that is shelby:rotfl:

and four real i think its chloe four now. but think she will come around to save clark in the end end then she dies or leaves?

[Lilah]

Davis can't be Judas. Davis kills Clark/Superman, and Judas didn't kill Jesus it was the Romans. I think Davis/Doomsday represents the Romans and not Judas. Judas could be one of three people. Chloe, Tess or Lex. I doubt it's Lex since he is no longer on the show. It could be Tess since she's the obvious choice, she has it in her to betray. However, I think she is rather Lex' Judas and not Clark's. So, that leaves Chloe. Premo choice of Judas since it would be the most shocking and dramatic. So, I think it might be Chloe.

Doomsday is actually a Lucifer figure.

[amalie]

and four real i think its chloe four now. but think she will come around to save clark in the end end then she dies or leaves?
[/COLOR]

I think she'll repent, and possibly die, just as Judas did only her death may be more sacrificial than suicidal.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Doomsday is actually a Lucifer figure.


I agree!

[Minela]

I did the same thing and double checked my Bible knowledge. You're right, Judas' motives are never really clearly defined. We're left to assume that it was greed, Luke's gospel goes as far as to say that satan enters Judas but there's nothing about him betraying Jesus because he thinks he's doing the right thing.

If that's the case, than Brainiac entering Chloe could be Satan enters Judas.

I think Chloe might side with Davis, at some point (not to kill Clark, but for some other purpose) because I think they'll relate to each other. Chloe has already killed a guy to protect Clark, Davis is killing criminals to protect the world from Doomsday. Add to that the sexual tension and mutual attraction they have for one another and it might be a recipe for disaster. I think Chloe will definitely fall in love with Davis during their dungeon time together.

[Mickey_Bickey]

I think she'll repent, and possibly die, just as Judas did only her death may be more sacrificial than suicide.

It's very interesting actually, and I think you're right. Regardless, she's going to be cast outside of Clark's inner circle.

[chlo-el]

I think it was Lex because Lex was Clark's friend and then he became his enemy.

[Dustmite]

Chloe ain't Judas. She's protecting Clark. I don't think that is what Judas is remembered for. Either that or I need to swot up on what I know of the story.

[Mickey_Bickey]

I think it was Lex because Lex was Clark's friend and then he became his enemy.

Lex and Clark's relationship deteriorated long ago. It can't mean Lex if she's talking about someone betraying him now. You have to be close to someone in order to betray them. It has to be Chloe.

[Jack-El49]

I think she'll repent, and possibly die, just as Judas did.

I think Chloe may be the character that just leaves. I think she'll have earned Clark's anger, disappointment and lost his trust because he'll feel she betrayed him by siding with Davis and Chloe feels like she needs to go. I can't see anyway around that. Maybe she'll go repent with Oliver's gang as Watchtower and just steer clear of Clark until he cools off.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Chloe ain't Judas. She's protecting Clark. I don't think that is what Judas is remembered for. Either that ot I need to swot up on wha I know of the story

Judas is known for betraying Jesus, and that's pretty much what he's associated with. He was part of the original 12 apostles, Jesus' inner circle, and he was the one who said where Jesus was hiding. He turned him in.

There is no one else on this show who can be compared to Judas because of the relationship with Clark. It's Chloe. No one else is close enough to Clark, not even Lois, because she doesn't know his secret like Chloe does. Much like Judas knew Jesus was God.

[Dustmite]

Judas is known for betraying Jesus, and that's pretty much what he's associated with. He was part of the original 12 apostles, Jesus' inner circle, and he was the one who said where Jesus was hiding. He turned him in.

There is no one else on this show who can be compared to Judas because of the relationship with Clark. It's Chloe.

It's not Chloe.

[Minela]

I think Chloe may be the character that just leaves. I think she'll have earned Clark's anger, disappointment and lost his trust because he'll feel she betrayed him by siding with Davis and Chloe feels like she needs to go. I can't see anyway around that. Maybe she'll go repent with Oliver's gang as Watchtower and just steer clear of Clark until he cools off.

She can't remain Watchtower if she betrays Superman.

[Dustmite]

She can't remain Watchtower if she betrays Superman.

It won't be a problem in that case because it's not happening.

[Mickey_Bickey]

I think Chloe may be the character that just leaves. I think she'll have earned Clark's anger, disappointment and lost his trust because he'll feel she betrayed him by siding with Davis and Chloe feels like she needs to go. I can't see anyway around that. Maybe she'll go repent with Oliver's gang as Watchtower and just steer clear of Clark until he cools off.

I think by harboring Davis, and especially is she doesn't warn Clark in Stiletto about him, then the betrayal is done IMO.

[melissan02]

Davis can't be Judas. Davis kills Clark/Superman, and Judas didn't kill Jesus it was the Romans. I think Davis/Doomsday represents the Romans and not Judas. Judas could be one of three people. Chloe, Tess or Lex. I doubt it's Lex since he is no longer on the show. It could be Tess since she's the obvious choice, she has it in her to betray. However, I think she is rather Lex' Judas and not Clark's. So, that leaves Chloe. Premo choice of Judas since it would be the most shocking and dramatic. So, I think it might be Chloe.
Davis nor Tess are Judas in this case. I see Tess as being Caiaphas, the high priest, who wanted Jesus arrested, tried, and killed because he wanted to prove Jesus was not the Messiah. Tess (given her actions last night) is trying to prove that Clark is the RBB/savior/hero that she knows he is, but he keeps denying.
Davis represents death, that must be defeated. So, that leaves Chloe. Chloe represents Judas. She's betraying her best friend. Whatever her intentions, it's still betrayal.

[amalie]

I think Chloe may be the character that just leaves. I think she'll have earned Clark's anger, disappointment and lost his trust because he'll feel she betrayed him by siding with Davis and Chloe feels like she needs to go. I can't see anyway around that. Maybe she'll go repent with Oliver's gang as Watchtower and just steer clear of Clark until he cools off.


I'm not sure I'd like that, if Chloe does indeed betray Clark (more than she already has) then I think she needs a way to redeem herself, her character deserves that. The way in which she receives redemption depends on how massive her betrayal is.

[Dustmite]

Davis nor Tess are Judas in this case. I see Tess as being Caiaphas, the high priest, who wanted Jesus arrested, tried, and killed because he wanted to prove Jesus was not the Messiah. Tess (given her actions last night) is trying to prove that Clark is the RBB/savior/hero that she knows he is, but he keeps denying.
Davis represents death, that must be defeated. So, that leaves Chloe. Chloe represents Judas. She's betraying her best friend. Whatever her intentions, it's still betrayal.

No it isn't.

[Mickey_Bickey]

It's not Chloe.

Who else is that close to Clark? No One. Who else is now harboring his ultimate destroyer? No One. Who else does Clark trust on this show more than Chloe? No one.

It's Chloe.

[thehenry89]

It's just a bad analogy all around, judas turned jesus in for 30 peices of silver, basically greed. If chloe betrays clark it's because she's protecting him, and it will be unintintioal.

[melissan02]

I think by harboring Davis, and especially is she doesn't warn Clark in Stiletto about him, then the betrayal is done IMO.
That's right...and there's that word again, betrayal.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Davis nor Tess are Judas in this case. I see Tess as being Caiaphas, the high priest, who wanted Jesus arrested, tried, and killed because he wanted to prove Jesus was not the Messiah. Tess (given her actions last night) is trying to prove that Clark is the RBB/savior/hero that she knows he is, but he keeps denying.
Davis represents death, that must be defeated. So, that leaves Chloe. Chloe represents Judas. She's betraying her best friend. Whatever her intentions, it's still betrayal.

You're 100% correct in both accounts.

[Dustmite]

Who else is that close to Clark? No One. Who else is now harboring his ultimate destroyer? No One. Who else does Clark trust on this show more than Chloe? No one.

It's Chloe.

No it isn't.

[amalie]

I think by harboring Davis, and especially is she doesn't warn Clark in Stiletto about him, then the betrayal is done IMO.


My sentiments exactly.

[Mickey_Bickey]

No it isn't.

Well, please give me an argument that makes sense why it isn't.

[chlo-el]

Lex and Clark's relationship deteriorated long ago. It can't mean Lex if she's talking about someone betraying him now. You have to be close to someone in order to betray them. It has to be Chloe.

Well, then it could be Tess. Lex and Clark were very close. And I think Tess and Clark are similar to that relationship. To me it's not betraying someone when your trying to save everyone.

[Dustmite]

Well, please give me an argument that makes sense why it isn't.

Because she's not betraying him.

[Mickey_Bickey]

My sentiments exactly.

We'll know 4/23, but I think we got the biggest hint with the "hand on hand" scene with Clark's look of worry/concern and at the end where Chloe made the decision to "stay with him".

[melissan02]

It's just a bad analogy all around, judas turned jesus in for 30 peices of silver, basically greed. If chloe betrays clark it's because she's protecting him, and it will be unintintioal.It's not a bad analogy. I thought it was used rather creatively in last night's episode.
It's not about the 30 pieces of silver, it's the betrayal. Argue if you must that her intention is to protect Clark because she loves him...blah, blah, blah,....but the moment she locked that door she sealed her fate and established herself as Judas, the one who betrayed.

[workshyslacker]

It's just a bad analogy all around, judas turned jesus in for 30 peices of silver, basically greed. If chloe betrays clark it's because she's protecting him, and it will be unintintioal.

I think Judas' way to Heck was paved with (what he thought was good intentions). The silver was what the Romans paid him because he went to them as an informer. Judas believed in Jesus as the Messiah, and wanted him to rid them of the Romans. He mistakenly thought he would force Jesus' hand by selling him out, and then he was consumed with guilt so he hung himself.

You could draw Tess into this analogy by saying she wants Clark to reach his destiny and save mankind.

But then, there are so many counterarguments so both Chloe and Tess are valid.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Because she's not betraying him.

I can say "because she is betraying him", but I backed my argument with historical facts from the Bible and comparing it logically to last night's episode in terms of how that analogy applies to these characters.

Yours is because you just don't want to believe that Chloe is capable of any wrong doing, and that's just not good enough.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


It's not a bad analogy. I thought it was used rather creatively in last night's episode.
It's not about the 30 pieces of silver, it's the betrayal. Argue if you must that her intention is to protect Clark because she loves him...blah, blah, blah,....but the moment she locked that door she sealed her fate and established herself as Judas, the one who betrayed.

I agree, and instead of the 30 pieces of silver this time it will be a more "personal reward". Her choice has been made, and we'll know for sure when Stiletto airs.

[melissan02]

Well, then it could be Tess. Lex and Clark were very close. And I think Tess and Clark are similar to that relationship. To me it's not betraying someone when your trying to save everyone.
Betrayal in Merriam-Webster states: to give aid or information to an enemy of; to commit treason.

Notice the first part...to give aid. Is that not what she's giving to Davis? The one she knows was sent to kill Clark?

[joyce20]

i voted Chloe because she is the closests friend to Clark. But now that i think about it, it may be Tess. Tess and Clark arent that close but maybe itll develop later on in s9 and then we'll see how Tess = Judas.
Idk for sure....but i could see how people are thinking its chloe (that was my first reaction)

[Dustmite]

I can say "because she is betraying him", but I backed my argument with historical facts from the Bible and comparing it logically to last night's episode in terms of how that analogy applies to these characters.

Yours is because you just don't want to believe that Chloe is capable of any wrong doing, and that's just not good enough.

Please don't tell me my arguement is not good enough or not as good as yours or indeed why I'm making it. I haven't said to you that you believe she is Judas because you want her to betray Clark, that you want her to apart from Clark...:\

I don't need to back my argument with any historical facts. She's doing what she is doing to protect him . She is NOT betraying him. The only reason she agreed was to save Clark. She is NOT Judas.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Betrayal in Merriam-Webster states: to give aid or information to an enemy of; to commit treason.

Notice the first part...to give aid. Is that not what she's giving to Davis? The one she knows was sent to kill Clark?

Another nail.....pun intended!:lol:

[Dustmite]

Betrayal in Merriam-Webster states: to give aid or information to an enemy of; to commit treason.

Notice the first part...to give aid. Is that not what she's giving to Davis? The one she knows was sent to kill Clark?

Yeah, she's leading him to Clark, putting a big hunk of green k on his heart and cheering whilst Dooms beats him to a pulp. She's not keeping him away from Clark. She didn't put Clark before him. She didn't try to save Clark. She didn't choose Clark. She wants Clark to die.

[amalie]

Yeah, she's leading him to Clark, putting a big hunk of green k on his heart and cheering whilst Dooms beats him to a pulp. She's not keeping him away from Clark. She didn't put Clark before him. She didn't try to save Clark. She didn't choose Clark. She wants Clark to die.

Her betrayal may not be that obvious but it's still a betrayal, assuming she doesn't run straight to Clark in Stiletto and tell all. She's essentially harbouring the man sent to kill him. In my eyes, that's a betrayal.

[Dustmite]

Her betrayal may not be that obvious but it's still a betrayal, assuming she doesn't run straight to Clark in Stiletto and tell all. She's essentially harbouring the man sent to kill him. In my eyes, that's a betrayal.

Because it's the only way to control him as far as she knows. She doesn't know what we know. In my eyes it's a sacrifice and I hate that show is so ready to show her sacrificing herself for Clark.

[Mickey_Bickey]

Please don't tell me my arguement is not good enough or not as good as yours or indeed why I'm making it. I haven't said to you that you believe she is Judas because you want her to betray Clark, that you want her to apart from Clark...:\

I don't need to back my argument with any historical facts. She's doing what she is doing to protect him . She is NOT betraying him. The only reason she agreed was to save Clark. She is NOT Judas.
You didn't give me an argument to begin with. It was just statements like "it's not her" with no explanation or reasoning behind them.

I am basing my opinion on historical facts written in the Bible, and an anology that was introduced into last night's episode. You do have to refer back to the relationship of Judas and Jesus to make sense of it and apply it to the characters in this show. The only one, and it's not because I want her to be Judas, that can be the "Judas" in this scenario to Clark is Chloe.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Because it's the only way to control him as far as she knows. She doesn't know what we know. In my eyes it's a sacrifice and I hate that show is so ready to show her sacrificing herself for Clark.

There are always other options. If Chloe doesn't contact Clark in Stiletto or somehow get some message to him, then her choice is made, and that choice is to betray Clark whether she knows it or not.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


Her betrayal may not be that obvious but it's still a betrayal, assuming she doesn't run straight to Clark in Stiletto and tell all. She's essentially harbouring the man sent to kill him. In my eyes, that's a betrayal.

I agree!!

[melissan02]

Because it's the only way to control him as far as she knows. She doesn't know what we know. In my eyes it's a sacrifice and I hate that show is so ready to show her sacrificing herself for Clark.But she knows much more than that, yet she's choosing not to tell Clark anything! She knows that Davis is now stronger because of the kryptonite, and that he was sent to kill Clark.
It's betrayal...plain and simple.

----- Added 39 Seconds later -----


Her betrayal may not be that obvious but it's still a betrayal, assuming she doesn't run straight to Clark in Stiletto and tell all. She's essentially harbouring the man sent to kill him. In my eyes, that's a betrayal.Nicely put, amalie!

[thehenry89]

This is why i hate it when the writers of this show clumsly toss religious conetations into episodes. The bible is one of the most highly debated and widley interprated books of the last 1000 years and yet they in all their lofty superiority casually throw it around like they have all the answers.

[Tompouce]

I just want to say, this analogy with Clark/Superman/Jesus exasperates me A LOT. As many told it here, we all know the people who created Superman were religious. Okay but I don't watch SV to have a religious lesson. I have Bible, churchs,...for this.
Superman belongs to my imagination, to what I want to believe in. It is about faith in mankind, about will and wish to have a better world and try to do my best to contribute. Above all, sometimes I just need to think and dream a hero like Clark can exist without any religious comment or analogy. I need to hope but I don't need to have religious comments to help me in this way.
In the last episodes all the analogies with Jesus and all are really too much. I find it inappropriate. I hope I shock nobody with my post but I wanted to say it ;)

[Mickey_Bickey]

This is why i hate it when the writers of this show clumsly toss religious conetations into episodes. The bible is one of the most highly debated and widley interprated books of the last 1000 years and yet they in all their lofty superiority casually throw it around like they have all the answers.

I would say that Judas' intentions can be argued but not his actions. He betrayed Jesus, plain and simple. There is no room for debate with that.

[Minela]

I just want to say, this analogy with Clark/Superman/Jesus exasperates me A LOT. As many told it here, we all know the people who created Superman were religious. Okay but I don't watch SV to have a religious lesson. I have Bible, churchs,...for this.
Superman belongs to my imagination, to what I want to believe in. It is about faith in mankind, about will and wish to have a better world and try to do my best to contribute. Above all, sometimes I just need to think and dream a hero like Clark can exist without any religious comment or analogy. I need to hope but I don't need to have religious comments to help me in this way.
In the last episodes all the analogies with Jesus and all are really too much. I find it inappropriate. I hope I shock nobody with my post but I wanted to say it ;)

I totally agree.

[thehenry89]

I would say that Judas' intentions can be argued but not his actions. He betrayed Jesus, plain and simple. There is no room for debate with that.

I completley agree with that. My problem isnt the stoy itself, it's the fact that it's very out of place in this episode because the context is wrong.

Judas betrayed jesus for 30 peices of silver, judas was one of christs apostles I.E one of his inner circle.

davis isn't in clark's inner circle so that and his motivatoin isn't money so he can't be jesus.

Chloe isn't betraying clark for money she's doing it to protect him.

Neither charachter fits the judas position. Not that I don't think what chloe is doing isn't wrong cuz it really is. But the story of judas and jesus is out of context in this episode.

[amalie]

Because it's the only way to control him as far as she knows. She doesn't know what we know. In my eyes it's a sacrifice and I hate that show is so ready to show her sacrificing herself for Clark.


I don't doubt Chloe's motives but she's still betraying Clark by not telling him.




Once Judas had seen what his actions had done, he realised his error, gave back his silver and killed himself. He didn't want to see Jesus die, Chloe doesn't want to see Clark die, that doesn't mean her actions won't bring about his destruction. I think she'll redeem herself before it gets that far, or I hope she will.

[Tompouce]

Am I the only one thinking Chloe is maybe doing this because she has feelings for Davis and not to protect Clark ?

----- Added 31 Seconds later -----


I totally agree.
Thanks:D;)

[Jack-El49]

I don't doubt Chloe's motives but she's still betraying Clark by not telling him.




Once Judas had seen what his actions had done, he realised his error, gave back his silver and killed himself. He didn't want to see Jesus die, Chloe doesn't want to see Clark die, that doesn't mean her actions won't bring about his destruction. I think she'll redeem herself before it gets that far, or I hope she will.

Maybe Chloe has ulterior motives and it's not just to protect Clark but to have Davis all to herself. It's isn't 30 pieces of silver, I grant you, but they looked rather content preparing dinner until Clark barged in. Chloe's motives are not altogether altruistic, IMO. If they were, when she realized he was a killer, she wouldn't have gone to the kryto vat and put her hand up to the glass, crying.

I think Chloe has the hots for him and once his "appetites" get out of hand, Chloe will regret not telling Clark and keeping Davis behind his back. Of course, Clark would never suspect that Chloe is doing that, Chloe will never intend that Clark gets hurt nor will she ever forgive herself for the beat down Clark will receive and possibly the long-term coma. Lois won't forgive her either and Chloe will leave town, if still alive.

[workshyslacker]

Am I the only one thinking Chloe is maybe doing this because she has feelings for Davis and not to protect Clark ?

Thanks:D;)

Karine, the Road to Hell is paved with tall, dark and doomy men. :D

[amalie]

Maybe Chloe has ulterior motives and it's not just to protect Clark but to have Davis all to herself. It's isn't 30 pieces of silver, I grant you, but they looked rather content preparing dinner until Clark barged in. Chloe's motives are not altogether altruistic, IMO. If they were, when she realized he was a killer, she wouldn't have gone to the kryto vat and put her hand up to the glass, crying.

I think Chloe has the hots for him and once his "appetites" get out of hand, Chloe will regret not telling Clark and keeping Davis behind his back. Of course, Clark would never suspect that Chloe is doing that, Chloe will never intend that Clark gets hurt nor will she ever forgive herself for the beat down Clark will receive and possibly the long-term coma. Lois won't forgive her either and Chloe will leave town, if still alive.

I agree it could be seen that way, at the moment I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt but future episodes should fully confim her motives.

[melissan02]

Karine, the Road to Hell is paved with tall, dark and doomy men. :D
:rotfl:

[Jack-El49]

Karine, the Road to Hell is paved with tall, dark and doomy men. :D

You forgot bony!

[Tompouce]

Karine, the Road to Hell is paved with tall, dark and doomy men. :D
Looool, if I didn't know, I would have swear it is a woman who spoke:lol:;)

[dunkman]

I don't think anyone's going to betray Clark! I think Tess & Chloe are both going to die, Doomsday will be sent to the Phantom Zone, Lex will turn out not to be dead but to have amnesia & some serious plastic surgery (he'll still be bald, though), & only the Justice League (& Lana, Pete, & Martha) will know Clark's secret. This is just my guess, though, so don't consider it a spoiler!

[Jack-El49]

I agree it could be seen that way, at the moment I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt but future episodes should fully confim her motives.

Like "feeding" bad guys to him? Wouldn't that be rather insidious and something that Clark would frown upon? Not that Doomy eats them, he kills them to satisfy his homicidal urges since she can't control him anymore.

[dunkman]

Karine, the Road to Hell is paved with tall, dark and doomy men. :D

Is "doomy" even a word?

[workshyslacker]

You forgot bony!

That's what they sold me. :o

*goes off to mutter about "Buyer beware*


Is "doomy" even a word?

Yeah, its got a picture of Davis next to it.

You'll find it above "gloomy" with Bruce Wayne next to that

:D

[Tess is Smokin]

Am I the only one thinking Chloe is maybe doing this because she has feelings for Davis and not to protect Clark ?

----- Added 31 Seconds later -----


Thanks:D;)


not at all I'm right behind you!

[amalie]

I would say that Judas' intentions can be argued but not his actions. He betrayed Jesus, plain and simple. There is no room for debate with that.

This seems to fit nicely in with the way the discussion is going. Some believe Chloe's motives are pure, others less so, but her actions can't really be argued. Nicely put Mickey_Bickey

[Tess is Smokin]

Is "doomy" even a word?


Only God knows the answer to that question dear:o

[amalie]

Like "feeding" bad guys to him? Wouldn't that be rather insidious and something that Clark would frown upon? Not that Doomy eats them, he kills them to satisfy his homicidal urges since she can't control him anymore.

I've been mostly unspoiled lately but if that's where it's going then Chloe is going to need to do something pretty major in order to be forgiven . :eek:

[Tess is Smokin]

I've been mostly unspoiled lately but if that's where it's going then Chloe is going to need to do something pretty major in order to be forgiven . :eek:



who said she's going to get forgiven? *evil laugh*

[melissan02]

That's what they sold me. :o

*goes off to mutter about "Buyer beware*



Yeah, its got a picture of Davis next to it.

You'll find it above "gloomy" with Bruce Wayne next to that
:D
Unless it's Christian Bale/Bruce Wayne, then I'm quite certain he's next to DREAMY!;)

[amalie]

who said she's going to get forgiven? *evil laugh*

There'll be some seriously annoyed Chloe fans if she isn't :eek: Personally I'd like to see a sacrificial death :\

Is that a spoiler? Better be safe.

[workshyslacker]

Unless it's Christian Bale/Bruce Wayne, then I'm quite certain he's next to DREAMY!;)

:rotfl:

[Tess is Smokin]

There'll be some seriously annoyed Chloe fans if she isn't :eek: Personally I'd like to see a sacrificial death :\

Is that a spoiler? Better be safe.

lets just wait and see :)

[BWOracle]

Chloe isn't staying with Davis in the basement in a betrayal of Clark. She's doing it to protect Clark because she knows that Davis can't be killed and because she seems to be the one able to control the beast.

I do wonder how many Talon staff are going disappear when they run out of coffee upstairs?

[ekoo]

I don't see Chloe as Judas. Is what she doing a good idea? In the long run probably not. But she's not betraying Clark. She's not having a pow wow with Davis in the basement running over ways to kill Clark, she's trying to diffuse the situation the best way she can. She can't go to Clark at the moment because he'll just zip over and try to talk with Davis, which will just set him off, she can't kill him, Clark can't, and if she's the only one who can calm the monster in Davis then it's not a betrayal at all. She's doing what she needs to do.

[Tess is Smokin]

I don't see Chloe as Judas. Is what she doing a good idea? In the long run probably not. But she's not betraying Clark. She's not having a pow wow with Davis in the basement running over ways to kill Clark, she's trying to diffuse the situation the best way she can. She can't go to Clark at the moment because he'll just zip over and try to talk with Davis, which will just set him off, she can't kill him, Clark can't, and if she's the only one who can calm the monster in Davis then it's not a betrayal at all. She's doing what she needs to do.



you 100% percent sure on that? because that hasn't been proved yet.

[stenochick]

I think Tess fits more with the character of Judas and Chloe is more like Peter.

But, at the end of Eternal there was some foreshadowing of Chloe betraying Clark. She said something along the lines of having to intervene to "kill" Davis because Clark won't kill or dispose of his enemies because of his code of ethics.

We already saw her kill Sebastion in Identity in order to protect Clark. There was some Brainiac influence going on there, but do we really think that Brainiac would want to protect Clark?

Clark would never have wanted Chloe to do that.

Something similiar will happen where Chloe intervenes to protect Clark in a way that goes against his ethics, but it backfires and causes Clark's death at the hands of Doomsday. That is pure speculation on my part -- nothing to do with spoilers, just having fun fitting the characters into the Jesus/Judas archetype.

[ekoo]

you 100% percent sure on that? because that hasn't been proved yet.

Well... I've only read The Death of Superman and they both die at the end (but I think later on we learn Doomsday didn't die). So I guess, yeah he can be killed... at Superman's expense, and it's a pretty huge expense at that.

But regardless, I don't think Clark can defeat Doomsday and Chloe knows that so she's trying to protect him. I guess I attribute Judas the betrayer to his actual betrayal by offering Jesus up to the Romans and I don't believe that Chloe would offer up Clark to him, no matter what she got in return, it's too OOC.

[superjude]

I'm going for the stretch and saying that it is Chloe. Clark is in no way familiar enough with Davis for him to be the betrayer. Clark wouldn't consider him as betraying him. But Chloe just did betray Clark by Locking that door- even if she thinks that she is doing the right thing and protecting Clark. He is not going to agree, I don't think. It could also possibly be Tess. SHe is evil and I no longer Like her. I would like to see her taken out!

[marla219]

Ok, so after reading all this I did a quick search to check my memory, and while the idea of Judas betraying Jesus in order to push him to a greater destiny may be a larger cultural meme than I give it credit for, it's not supported in the Gospel (aka Biblical canon). In both Matthew and John the writers clearly state that Judas' motivation was greed:

John 12:1-4 But one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, who was later to betray him, objected, 5 "Why wasn't this perfume sold and the money given to the poor? It was worth a year's wages." 6 He did not say this because he cared about the poor but because he was a thief; as keeper of the money bag, he used to help himself to what was put into it.

Matthew 26:14-16
14 Then one of the Twelve--the one called Judas Iscariot--went to the chief priests 15 and asked, "What are you willing to give me if I hand him over to you?" So they counted out for him thirty silver coins. 16 From then on Judas watched for an opportunity to hand him over.


So while the SV writers may be borrowing from the cultural fanwank regarding Judas, they are clearly not borrowing from the actual Bible in terms of ANY character's motivation (with the possible exception of Tess, who as I mentioned earlier seems to be positioning herself on Team Kent, but for her own reasons).

A better analogy, if Chloe was meant to be portrayed as Judas, would have been Brutus' betray of Caesar: as I recall, Brutus thought he was killing Caesar in order to save Rome from the tyranny of dictatorship. AND as I recall, Dante presents both Brutus and Judas side-by-side in the lowest circle of hell, where the traitors are held.

Davis as Judas -- or Brutus for that matter? Makes no sense at all.

The Bible may not represent Judas as pushing Jesus to his destiny, but the story is more than a cultural meme. It actually stems from the Gnostic biblical writings that were excluded from the Bible. In other words, the "non-cannonical" bible that includes the Gospel of Judas. The Gnostic writings represent Judas as acting according to Christ's wishes to bring about his larger plan. Judas is a tragic hero rather than a greedy betrayer in this version.

It's actually quite interesting to read the lost books of the Bible, since there were quite a few gospels and writings that were left out when the early Church put the Bible together. They aren't cannon, but they offer different versions of the story of Jesus.

[Dustmite]

She's not Judas.

[Tess is Smokin]

She's not Judas.

I respectfully totally disagree.

[amalie]

She's not Judas.


As much as I respect your opinion, however much I may disagree with it, just repeating it in the thread without any sort of argument isn't very convincing.

[NinaDavis]

Chloe

[Dustmite]

As much as I respect your opinion, however much I may disagree with it, just repeating it in the thread without any sort of argument isn't very convincing.

I gave my reasons earlier on this thread and I've read the opposing arguement and I'm still of the same opinion. She was shown in this episode to be willing to do anything to protect Clark. Anything for Clark. That is what I took away from this episode and a line that Tess utters that has nothing to do with Chloe IMO isn't going to change anything. She was ready to go to Clark until D said that she was the only things that controlled the beast.

I bet you're still not convinced though. Just as I won't be of the other side.

She's not going to betray him and she's not Judas.


I respectfully totally disagree.

And I with you.

[Tess is Smokin]

I gave my reasons earlier on this thread and I've read the opposing arguement and I'm still of the same opinion. She was shown in this episode to be willing to do anything to protect Clark. Anything for Clark. That is what I took away from this episode and a line that Tess utters that has nothing to do with Chloe IMO isn't going to change anything. She was ready to go to Clark until D said that she was the only things that controlled the beast.

I bet you're still not convinced though. Just as I won't be of the other side.

She's not going to betray him and she's not Judas.



And I with you.


we'll just have to wait and see.......



and maaan I can't wait! :D

[lillie_poo_pod]

She's not Judas.

This. I'm trying to figure out why it's even bought up. Because Chloe's his bestfriend? Whatever. Tess was talking about Davis being Judas, it was obvious. And since when does sacrificing your life to save the life of your friend ,and on a greater scale the world, make you a betrayer?

[Tess is Smokin]

This. I'm trying to figure out why it's even bought up. Because Chloe's his bestfriend? Whatever. Tess was talking about Davis being Judas, it was obvious. And since when does sacrificing your life to save the life of your friend ,and on a greater scale the world, make you a betrayer?


that's your interpretation. it doesn't make it so.

[Dustmite]

we'll just have to wait and see.......



and maaan I can't wait! :D

Kudos!


This. I'm trying to figure out why it's even bought up. Because Chloe's his bestfriend? Whatever. Tess was talking about Davis being Judas, it was obvious. And since when does sacrificing your life to save the life of your friend ,and on a greater scale the world, make you a betrayer?

Exactly!

[lillie_poo_pod]

that's your interpretation. it doesn't make it so.
Same goes for yours, bb.

[Tess is Smokin]

Same goes for yours, bb.



well duh?

[Dustmite]

well duh?

:\

[amalie]

I gave my reasons earlier on this thread and I've read the opposing arguement and I'm still of the same opinion. She was shown in this episode to be willing to do anything to protect Clark. Anything for Clark. That is what I took away from this episode and a line that Tess utters that has nothing to do with Chloe IMO isn't going to change anything. She was ready to go to Clark until D said that she was the only things that controlled the beast.

I bet you're still not convinced though. Just as I won't be of the other side.

She's not going to betray him and she's not Judas.



And I with you.


Actually I agree with you in regard to her motives, just not your interpretation of what betrayal is in this scenario. Hopefully the future episodes will shed some light. :)

[Tess is Smokin]

Actually I agree with you in regard to her motives, just not your interpretation of what betrayal is in this scenario. Hopefully the future episodes will shed some light. :)



oooh they willl..... oooh they suuuuuuure will :lol:

[lillie_poo_pod]

Actually I agree with you in regard to her motives, just not your interpretation of what betrayal is in this scenario. Hopefully the future episodes will shed some light. :)
In this scenario, what is the betrayal?

[Davis Bloome]

I know I called Chloe the Judas too and of course that is just my opinion. But of course everybody has a different opinion of who Judas was and what his role was. For some he's the ultimate betrayer, the backstabber. For others he's more the tool, the guide that brings Jesus to his destiny. So in both aspects Chloe seems to fit the bill. Though more in the latter one than the first.

[Dustmite]

Actually I agree with you in regard to her motives, just not your interpretation of what betrayal is in this scenario. Hopefully the future episodes will shed some light. :)

I'm more concerned with her motives and her intent. And that is homourable in regards to Clarl. She is putting herself on the line (also I hate that but anyway).

[Kid Collins]

Chloe isn't staying with Davis in the basement in a betrayal of Clark. She's doing it to protect Clark because she knows that Davis can't be killed and because she seems to be the one able to control the beast.

I agree. It's Chloe's intent to protect Clark just like she was willing to end Davis' life to save him.

It's all about intent. Chloe's heart is in the right place.

She's not out to betray Clark. She really thinks she's doing the right thing.

Judas deliberately handed over Jesus to the Romans. Chloe is actually preventing Davis from killing Clark by soothing his inner beast. :p


I do wonder how many Talon staff are going disappear when they run out of coffee upstairs?

:lol:

[lillie_poo_pod]

So in both aspects Chloe seems to fit the bill. Though more in the latter one than the first.
How does she fit the bill for the first?

[amalie]

In this scenario, what is the betrayal?

Harbouring Davis and hiding his existence from Clark. I'm assuming, mainly due to the dramatic way the scene way portrayed, that she isn't going to tell Clark anytime soon and for me that's the big betrayal.

[Smallville Vamp]

sounds like your blaming Clark


when Chloe is the one who actually does the betraying part.

Blaming Clark for what, Chloe BETRAYING HIM when THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET?

Clearly I didn't blame Clark for something that not only DIDN'T HAPPEN but something that may NEVER HAPPEN!

[Tess is Smokin]

Blaming Clark for what, Chloe BETRAYING HIM when THAT'S SOMETHING THAT HASN'T EVEN HAPPENED YET?

Clearly I didn't blame Clark for something that not only DIDN'T HAPPEN but something that may NEVER HAPPEN!


it SURE looked like she did.

[amalie]

I agree. It's Chloe's intent to protect Clark just like she was willing to end Davis' life to save him.

It's all about intent. Chloe's heart is in the right place.

She's not out to betray Clark. She really thinks she's doing the right thing.

Judas deliberately handed over Jesus to the Romans. Chloe is actually preventing Davis from killing Clark by soothing his inner beast. :p



:lol:

When Clark finds out what Chloe is doing will he consider it a betrayal? We can't know for certain yet but I'm inclined to believe that he will. Of course, I'm only speculating.

[Kid Collins]

Harbouring Davis and hiding his existence from Clark. I'm assuming, mainly due to the dramatic way the scene way portrayed, that she isn't going to tell Clark anytime soon and for me that's the big betrayal.

If Clark knew that Chloe was hiding Davis what would he do?

Would he confront Davis ?

Fight him? We all know how that would end.

Or would he run away?

Davis isn't some FOTW that Clark can easily get rid of. Kryptonite actually made him stronger made him immortal.

What he's going to do ask Oliver to take him out? :lol:

I could see if telling Clark would help the situation if Clark knew how to get rid of him.

[Tess is Smokin]

If Clark knew that Chloe was hiding Davis what would he do?

Would he confront Davis ?

Fight him? We all know how that would end?

Or would he run away?

Davis isn't some FOTW that Clark can easily get rid of. Kryptonite actually made him stronger made him immortal.

What he's going to ask Oliver to take him out? :lol:

I could see if telling Clark would help the situation if Clark knew how to get rid of him.


He could always ask bart to run him into the speedforce:rotfl:

[Davis Bloome]

How does she fit the bill for the first? Cause in a sense she does betray Clark by siding with Davis and help him as he requested. She did it out of love which is noble and admiring. However the best thing was to go to Clark and find a way out. Clark seemed to be determined that there would be a solution to all this. And I'm not sure what that would be. I get the feeling that either way it would end up in a inevitable confrontation between Clark and Doomsday whether Chloe informs him or not. But at least she wouldn't have lied to Clark about Davis is she would inform him.

[Amelie]

Well the creator of the thread speculated that Chloe may be the one who betrays Clark in the end. He didn't state that Chloe had already betrayed him, because clearly she has not. Even when she locked the door, although I think that was a horrible and quite frankly stupid decision, that did not make Chloe a traitor and certainly did not cast her as Judas. But further down the line, is there a possibility that Chloe could betray Clark? Sure there is.

Now, if this was another character who had never betrayed Clark before and this character cared for Clark as much or more as Chloe does I would have said, "No. There is not a single chance that she would betray Clark," but the truth of matter is that Chloe has betrayed Clark in the past and so she is fully able to do so. Betrayal is a definite possibility and those who says it could never happen are wrong. Because it has happened before.

Now will the betrayal happen for certain? I'm not sure. I'm actually waiting for the upcoming episode to shine more light on all of this, but I'm not ruling anything out right now because Chloe's definitely walking a very dangerous path and her heart has clouded her judgment in the past and right now she's as romantically confused as ever and emotionally not in a positive place.

[amalie]

If Clark knew that Chloe was hiding Davis what would he do?

Would he confront Davis ?

Fight him? We all know how that would end.

Or would he run away?

Davis isn't some FOTW that Clark can easily get rid of. Kryptonite actually made him stronger made him immortal.

What he's going to do ask Oliver to take him out? :lol:

I could see if telling Clark would help the situation if Clark knew how to get rid of him.

But not telling Clark isn't helping Clark destroy him either. He thinks Davis is dead, he has no reason to look for a way out of this situation and Chloe is the one enforcing that blindness. She's helping Davis get the upper hand.

[Smallville Vamp]

it SURE looked like she did.

To YOU or ME?

[lillie_poo_pod]

Harbouring Davis and hiding his existence from Clark. I'm assuming, mainly due to the dramatic way the scene way portrayed, that she isn't going to tell Clark anytime soon and for me that's the big betrayal.
By keeping him safe? If she told him, Clark would be dead. End of. Clark would have sought out Davis, and Dooms would have killed him.


it SURE looked like she did.
That's you interpretation. Doesn't make it so. :|

[Kid Collins]

But not telling Clark isn't helping Clark destroy him either. He thinks Davis is dead, he has no reason to look for a way out of this situation and Chloe is the one enforcing that blindness. She's helping Davis get the upper hand.\


Aren't you getting ahead of the story?

We don't know what Chloe will do after this ep. The last scene was of her locking the door of the Talon basement.

Why don't we give Chloe the benefit of the doubt before we crucify her?

[Tess is Smokin]

To YOU or ME?


how could i possibly tell you how something looked from your perspective?





That's you interpretation. Doesn't make it so. :|

Never said anything on the contrary

[lillie_poo_pod]

However the best thing was to go to Clark and find a way out.
There is no way out. Chloe realized there's nothing that can stop him. He only got stronger. How could there possibly be another way out?

But at least she wouldn't have lied to Clark about Davis is she would inform him.
Okay, so her not telling Clark, to keep him safe, is the betrayal? Then I guess this is just Chloe paying back the favor from when Clark mindwiped her to keep her safe.

[amalie]

\


Aren't you getting ahead of the story?

We don't know what Chloe will do after this ep. The last scene was of her locking the door of the Talon basement.

Why don't we give Chloe the benefit of the doubt before we crucify her?

I can't argue with that point, I am looking ahead. I'm judging this on what I believe will happen next, namely that Chloe will hide Davis' location from Clark and that Chloe fits the Judas theory best. My reason for doing that is purely from the way the end scene , and particularly the last shot of Chloe closing the door, was portrayed. It gave me the feeling that this was a massive turning point. However until it's confirmed I can't possibly say for certain that I'm right, I've stated in the thread earlier that if Chloe does tell Clark in Stiletto then I'll concede willingly.

[Kid Collins]

Okay, so her not telling Clark, to keep him safe, is the betrayal? Then I guess this is just Chloe paying back the favor from when Clark mindwiped her to keep her safe.

Payback time. :lol:

[Amelie]

I could see if telling Clark would help the situation if Clark knew how to get rid of him.

Clark doesn't have a solution for the situation because he's only known about it for 24 hours! Give the man some time! So if that's really Chloe's excuse for not telling Clark then it's a really bad one. I mean Chloe can tame the beast, yes, we understand that, but why can't she do that while having Clark try to figure out something else in the outside world? I mean she locked herself in the basement for crying out loud. How is that a solution? That's just buying her time but in the long run will not serve to help out anyone.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


But not telling Clark isn't helping Clark destroy him either. He thinks Davis is dead, he has no reason to look for a way out of this situation and Chloe is the one enforcing that blindness. She's helping Davis get the upper hand.

Exactly. I don't understand this whole, "But Clark can't stop Davis" mentality. Clark hasn't even tried to find a solution and now he won't try either because he thinks Davis is dead. If Clark knew that the kryptonite death didn't work he'd be working hard to find a better solution.

[amalie]

There is no way out. Chloe realized there's nothing that can stop him. He only got stronger. How could there possibly be another way out?


If she doesn't tell Clark she's blindsighting him. It gives Davis the upper hand. There may be a way out but she isn't giving Clark the chance to find one.

[Davis Bloome]

There is no way out. Chloe realized there's nothing that can stop him. He only got stronger. How could there possibly be another way out? True it is a bit of a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' scenario...


Okay, so her not telling Clark, to keep him safe, is the betrayal? Then I guess this is just Chloe paying back the favor from when Clark mindwiped her to keep her safe.
Betrayel is I guess a big word, but it's lying and that lie will result bad in their friendship. Clark has lied a lot before but he has always tried to lie for good, in order to protect his friends. In this scenario Chloe can't know if this will protect Clark. It can go both ways...