Did Chloe Make the Right Choice...?

[BlacKryptonitian]

Considering that Clark 'found another way' and saved her (Legion) when Chloe was both a threat to him and the world, I think Chloe pressed the button too quickly.

Great point and one that shouldn't be overlooked. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bizarrolover]

Great point and one that shouldn't be overlooked. Thanks for pointing it out.

Thanks! :D

I don't like double standards so I didn't like that Chloe judged Clark because of his 'code of ethics' when he did exactly the same thing he did in Legion. I think that pissed me more than her killing Davis.

[wingster55]

For Chloe killing is the last choice. If she could save the world by killing one person she would. Clark would want to find a way and it was damn lucky the Legion did.

[MountainSniper]

Hi Timester,


Yes, I'm going to start hiding bombs on my cave for the good of my nephew.

What are you taking about?

This is Doomsday not a nuclear bomb that there is a established procedure for dealing with.

Chloe is making tough but logical calls with the best information that is available to her at the time of the decision.

Chloe tried (with Davis) to do the right thing ie kill Doomsday using the best intel available at the time of the decision.

Now she is doing the only thing she can which is at risk of her own life keep Davis from turning into Doomsday and going after Clark.

I personally think there can't be enough good channels of communication for intel so she should call Clark and fill him in but also warn him not to come near the basement since Clark bumbling into the lab last time worked out so well.

Her main call at this moment is knowing Clark is a BDA she decides to keep the bumbling farmboy out of the loop. Not my personal call I would make in her shoes but understandable when you look at Clark's track record dealing with Zod, Brainiac, Zoners etc and what happened last time he rushed into the lab.

If Chloe would have known the correct way to kill Doomsday he would be dead and Davis gone but happy with her choice and problem solved.

Now she has to try her best to keep Davis under control and thus Doomsday away from Clark and not tell Clark to keep Clark away from Doomsday and on top of everything hope she can come up with a new way to either kill or neutralize Doomsday.

Sounds pretty heroic to a ordinary shooter in the sandbox.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[Marissa]

Uh.. yes I think so.

[MountainSniper]

Hi SV’s immoral hero,


and what does harboring a killer accomplish bar landing yourself in prison………well it doesnt change the law does it shes harboring a serial killer, thats going to get her into trouble whethere people like it or not


What are you talking about?

This is Doomsday not a human being serial killer like Jack the Ripper or whoever?

What does the police or justice system have to do with any of it?

Chloe is not hiding Doomsday from the police but trying to keep more people (& Clark) from being killed.

Doomsday is a super powered alien monster so do you really expect Chloe to call the police and they come in and handcuff him and assign him a defense lawyer for his trial?

There is no rule of law on Smallville for the Luthors who are human let alone Zod, Brainiac, the Zoners, Doomsday etc so do you really expect Chloe to just call the cops and wash her hands of it?

The only intel at the moment is Doomsday is even stronger than before and due to the Kryptonite is currently out of Clark’s league. The only thing that appears to help Davis control Doomsday is the presence of Chloe Sullivan.

And it clearly follows that Chloe choosing to lock herself in a basement to try to help Davis control Doomsday is most likely volunteering for a “technicolor” funeral unless she and Davis can figure out a new way to kill Doomsday.

Chloe rocks in my book.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

----- Added 17 Minutes later -----

Hi Timester,


Again, third way. People just need to start embrace it.


The Superman way. It's what the show is all about, right?

TOO MUCH binary thinking in here. It doesn't have to be one way or another, there is always a third way.

What third way?

What is this mythical third way you allude to like it is obvious to all so you never actually have to take the trouble to define it?

Is this mythical third way some obvious way you have to stop Doomsday that Chloe Sullivan doesn’t know?

Chloe made the best possible decision with the intel available to her at the time of the decision.

Both she and Davis thought Kryptonite would kill Doomsday. It is hard to kill someone you care about but Chloe manned up and acted with violence of action to neutralize a threat to both Clark and mankind.

Unless you have a really cool insightful third way to post on how you would have stopped Doomsday in her shoes then Chloe Sullivan made the correct decision using the intel available at the time of decision.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

----- Added 33 Minutes later -----

Hi Hopefulsuicide,


None of her snap decisions made any sense... She decides to help him die, then decides she can't, then does it just because Clark might get hurt, then Clark tells her she shouldn't have and she says she doesn't regret it ?

What don’t you understand about Chloe’s decisions? It seems clear to me.

Davis is still in control enough to want to die rather than turn into perminant Doomsday. Chloe has feelings for Davis so of course when first confonted with killing her friend is conflicted. She logically resolves the need to kill ie suicide with Davis since they both understand like Dr Spock that “the needs of the many (&Clark) out weigh the needs of the few”. She does it and doesn’t regret doing it since there were no options that didn’t directly risk the existence of mankind.

Where don’t you see any sense?



All of a sudden, he's back and she's decided she can make it work? when did she change her mind? when did Clark's safety that she was just ranting out suddenly becomes less important to her?

What are you taking about?

Make what work?

She just found out that not only don’t her and Davis know how to kill Doomsday what they both thought would work instead made Doomsday stronger.

The one thing they do know is Chloe’s presence appears to help Davis control Doomsday so the best IMMEDIATE course of action is for her to stay with Davis and help him control the beast.

In time maybe Chloe and Davis will discover a way to kill Doomsday but until then the only option available to them is to try to control Doomsday with the presence of Chloe Sullivan.

When did she change her mind?

What are you saying she changed her mind about?

Chloe is trying to help Davis control Doomsday who wants to destroy Clark (&Mankind etc) so why do you think that is “changing her mind” or “Clark’s safety…..suddenly becomes less important to her"?

I really don’t understand what point you are trying to make?

Any explanation would be appreciated.

All the best.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[MountainSniper]

Hi Pantalaimon,


There is no right or wrong here. Clark made the moral choice, but the moral choice isn't always the right choice.

What is moral about choosing not to destroy a super powered alien monster bent on the destruction of Clark, life on earth etc?

It is not a moral choice at all but just a BDA apathetic choice of the politically correct writers of Smallville.

It is the same choice that Clark made with mass murderer Lex Luther in Vessel and what was moral about the result of that apathetic decision?

Oh yea, General Zod was released and dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of innocent people were killing in the world wide riots of black Thursday.

Then Clark after releasing Zod and getting himself exiled to the Phantom Zone only by shear luck in meeting Raya who happened to have a crystal and knew the way out Clark escaped along with a whole bunch of Zoners who then killed even more innocent people.

How many innocents have to die before Clark accepts that sometimes when the entire existence of human kind is at risk you have to man up and make the tough decision that sometimes you have to kill?

I don’t see Clark decisions where innocents die and all of mankind is at risk as moral at all.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

Hi Bizarrolover,


Considering that Clark 'found another way' and saved her (Legion) when Chloe was both a threat to him and the world, I think Chloe pressed the button too quickly.

So in Legion risking the existence of all mankind is worth it vs one human life?

What about in Vessel when Clark’s apathy regarding the Vessel ie Lex ends up with the deaths of dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of innocent people?

Why is the life of mass murderer Lex Luther worth the risk of having a super powered Kyptonian meglomanic destroy the world?

Legion was a joke since I don’t think a single logical thinker would ever have advised Clark to risk the existence of mankind for the life of EITHER a mass murder like Lex Luther in Vessel or the best friend & heroic sidekick Chloe Sullivan in Legion.

What was totally unrealistic about Legion was after finding out what Clark did any logical thinker would in Chloe Sullivan's place slap Clark across the face while screaming at him that risking the existance of mankind over their life or the life of any other single human is totally irresponsible, immoral and insane along with being really stupid.

Honestly I have no tolerance with the writers in order to maintain politically correctness make Clark into such a BDA.

If faced with the choice in Legion and in control (unlike Chloe due to Brainiac) I would (along with I expect the vast majority of the human race) if the crosshairs were on my head slotted myself to destroy Brainiac.

One life even your own or that of your best friend or a mass murder like Lex Luther vs all of Mankind isn’t even a decision.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[devilneedsaride]

Considering that Clark 'found another way' and saved her (Legion) when Chloe was both a threat to him and the world, I think Chloe pressed the button too quickly.

I just want to point out that after all that was over Chloe went to Clark and told him she disagreed with his decision, even though it was her life that he saved. Her character has been flopping back and forth like a beached salmon all season, but on this particular issue she hasn't wavered.

[Bizarrolover]

So in Legion risking the existence of all mankind is worth it vs one human life?



Clark tried and saved both, Chloe and mankind. It worked and even if it didn't, at least he tried. I think life is precious and it's worth trying. You may think that using death as the last resource makes Clark a BDA, I think it makes him a good person. Chloe didn't try, and what's worse, it didn't work. Because if she would have at least stopped to think about what she was doing, she would have realized it's practically impossible to kill a kryptonian. She would have recalled that Doomsday can't be killed and that he comes back stronger from each death. Instead, she acted impulsively, 'killed' a man that came back to life 2 hours later more dangerous and stronger and earned herself the title of DBS (dumb blonde sidekick).

[MountainSniper]

Hi Bizarrolover,


Clark tried and saved both, Chloe and mankind.

Clark rolled the dice on the existence of mankind and happened to get lucky.

The exact same way he rolled the dice last time the existance of man was at risk and just got lucky when he happened to meet Raya in the Phantom zone and she happened to have a crystal and also happened to know the way to escape etc.

Shear dumb luck and nothing to do with moral choice.


It worked and even if it didn't, at least he tried.


It was a dice roll and if it didn’t work mankind would be gone and that includes Chloe Sullivan.

There is nothing moral about it but instead it is the height of stupidity.


I think life is precious and it's worth trying.

How do you equate this statement with risking all humanity vs a single life of a person who would be completely on board with sacrificing herself to save the world?

Especially when Chloe knows she is dead anyway along with all of mankind if the dice comes up snake eyes.


You may think that using death as the last resource makes Clark a BDA, I think it makes him a good person.

No risking the entire human race in a dice roll as Clark does from time to time is immature, completely illogical and emotionally self indulgent.



Chloe didn't try, and what's worse, it didn't work.

Didn’t try what? What are you referring to? What should have Chloe tried?


Because if she would have at least stopped to think about what she was doing, she would have realized it's practically impossible to kill a kryptonian.

What do you mean “practically impossible”? What show have you been watching?

All you need to kill a Kyptonian is a chunk of meteor rock. Remember “their home is their poison”.


She would have recalled that Doomsday can't be killed and that he comes back stronger from each death. Instead, she acted impulsively, 'killed' a man that came back to life 2 hours later more dangerous and stronger and earned herself the title of DBS (dumb blonde sidekick).[/


No, as far as any one knows the current intel is meteor rock kills Kryptonians and that includes things of Krypton such as the space ship that Clark blew up with Krypton at the end of season 2 and when Kryptonian powers are transferred to humans etc.

Davis and Chloe both logically came to the same conclusion that Doomsday being Kryptonian (maybe) could be destroyed by meteor rock which is a completely logical and understandable conclusion when looking at Smallville’s history of meteor rock vs all things Kryptonian.

If it would have worked Doomsday would be destroyed and the wishes of Davis would have been carried out and the threat to all mankind and Clark would be gone.

Your gift of 20/20 hindsight is a wonderful thing to have but Chloe and Davis don’t have it so they made the right call based on the intel available to them at the time.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[Bizarrolover]

Hi Bizarrolover,



Clark rolled the dice on the existence of mankind and happened to get lucky.

The exact same way he rolled the dice last time the existance of man was at risk and just got lucky when he happened to meet Raya in the Phantom zone and she happened to have a crystal and also happened to know the way to escape etc.

Shear dumb luck and nothing to do with moral choice.

I guess we have different point of views. Clark tried, he formed a plan, executed it and it worked. He didn't roll a dice. I suppose that if it didn't work he would have killed her (maybe try another thing first, but ultimately he would have killed her) and now we would be judging him for not trying hard enough.


Didn’t try what? What are you referring to? What should have Chloe tried?
She didn't try to find another way to stop Davis. It took her one second to push the button. You may applaud her behavior, I don't. I'm sorry.


What do you mean “practically impossible”? What show have you been watching?


It's against the rules to ask me what show am I watching. But I will answer you anyway. Believe it or not, I'm watching Smallville. And the only kryptonian that died in this show is Raya, and she wasn't killed by kryptonite. Clark was poinsoned several times, he was even in contact with K for a couple of hours (in the same cage Davis was) and didn't die. Kara was injected with a high dose of kryptonite and didn't die, her heart stopped but Clark brought her back to life with just one punch on the chest. Lara and Zor-el vanished when Kara's crystal was destroyed. The two kryptonians from ARrival were sent to the PZ. If you recall another kryptonian dying of kryptonite exposure in this show, please refresh my memory because I can't remember. So, like I said, kryptonians (on Earth) are practically impossible to kill. Superman didn't die after his fight with Doomsday, he remained in a coma for months, but didn't die.

And please, you don't need to be rude to make your point. This is supposed to be a friendly board. I accept your opinions, I just don't agree with them.

[MountainSniper]

Hi Bizarrolover,


I guess we have different point of views. Clark tried, he formed a plan, executed it and it worked. He didn't roll a dice.

Wrong! It’s a dice roll when the stakes are the existence of mankind and you have no idea of the required/available resourses and most important the operational time line of any “plan”.



I suppose that if it didn't work he would have killed her (maybe try another thing first, but ultimately he would have killed her) and now we would be judging him for not trying hard enough.

Regarding Clark’s plan in Legion how would Clark kill Chloe even if he decided he needed to?

Brainiac is already in control of Chloe and Clark after their appearance in the barn has sent the Legion and their powers back to the future.

Game over for all mankind unless Clark sets off a nuclear explosion beside Chloe and the electromagnetic pulse takes down the computer Brainiac and of course kills Chloe and most of Metropolis but at least it would have maybe saved the rest of the human race if Clark would have figured out how to contain Brainiac.

Who knows, maybe Brainiac can survive a nuclear explosion and re-boot after the electromagnetic pulse but either way even if Clark pulled off a nuclear explosion Chloe is still dead along with most of Metropolis.



She didn't try to find another way to stop Davis. It took her one second to push the button. You may applaud her behavior, I don't. I'm sorry.


A 21st century human being facing a super powered ultimate destroyer created by an advanced alian race coming at her????

Gee, just off to top of your head, what would you have tried besides pulling the lever?

BTW you have no reason to apologize to me. Your opinions are your own and nothing to apologize for. In a debate on a message board all you have to do is turn your opinions into arguments by explaining them and backing them up with evidence.



It's against the rules to ask me what show am I watching.

My mistake, my fault, I was not aware of this rule and I am sorry and I take it back.



And the only kryptonian that died in this show is Raya, and she wasn't killed by kryptonite. Clark was poinsoned several times, he was even in contact with K for a couple of hours (in the same cage Davis was) and didn't die. Kara was injected with a high dose of kryptonite and didn't die, her heart stopped but Clark brought her back to life with just one punch on the chest. Lara and Zor-el vanished when Kara's crystal was destroyed. The two kryptonians from ARrival were sent to the PZ. If you recall another kryptonian dying of kryptonite exposure in this show, please refresh my memory because I can't remember.

I concede your point that there are no direct examples of Kryptonians being killed with meteor rock on the show.

However it is stated directly several times by different characters like Clark for example when he explains meteor rocks to Kara that long term exposure to Kryptonite kills Kryptonians.

Lionel is his trances as Jor-el’s emissary directly says: “their home is their poison” rather than something like “their home makes them weak and easy to control”.

So it does appear to me that on Smallville the powers that be are trying to tell us that for the sake of drama, excitemenet etc that Clark, Kara etc can be killed and thus are not completely and totally in all situations immortal so are never at risk etc.

But is the “death vs just weaking” point even that important or relevant regarding the Chloe and Davis plan to use Kryptonite to kill Doomsday?

They want to kill Doomsday but even if the Kryptonite just made Doomsday extremely weak and sick that would also stop Doomsday from destroying mankind/Clark etc.

If in your version of Smallville where you see Kryptonite as not killing Kryptonians but just making them weak then Chloe should look even “more moral” in your eyes since she is not going to kill Doomsday to stop him but only make him weak and sick with Kryptonite.

Either way, (my belief) Kryptonite causing death or (your belief) Kryptonite causing weakness Chloe and her and Davis's plan to stop Doomsday is morally in the clear.



And please, you don't need to be rude to make your point. This is supposed to be a friendly board. I accept your opinions, I just don't agree with them

Please think of me as direct, aggressive and blunt in debate and rudeness is not my intention, objective or interest.

All the best,

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[Bizarrolover]

Mountain Sniper,

You convinced me. Chloe's decision of bathing Davis with kryptonite and making him immortal was the right one and Clark was wrong in saving Chloe in Legion. He should have killed her right away. ;)

It was nice arguing with you.
Be

[Jawth]

Davis was (well, still is) a mass murderer. Some of his actions could be justified (the drunk driver, other murderers and rapists) but he was prepared to kill the guy that was just breaking into a building in Turbulence and I seriously doubt with that many dead bodies in the field they all deserved to die. Not only was a he a serial killer and mass murderer, he was destined to (well, try to) kill Clark, and if he lost control again, who nows how many he could slaughter.

Not only did he deserve to die, he HAD to die. In that instant, she made the right choice. I think most people would have done the same thing.

[Pantalaimon]

Hi Pantalaimon,

What is moral about choosing not to destroy a super powered alien monster bent on the destruction of Clark, life on earth etc?

I thought that was quite obvious.
Davis is an innocent victim (of Doomsday). Killing an innocent for the greater good may be the best choice in the end, but can still be considered morally objectionable.

edit
Well perhaps Davis is no longer innocent since he started killing to avoid turning into Doomsday (another choice that may have been right, but not moral), but he is definitely a victim.

[MountainSniper]

Hi Bizarrolover,


You convinced me.

Okey dokey!


It was nice arguing with you.

As always the pleasure is mine.

Best of luck in the future,

Cheers Mountain Sniper



Hi Jawth,


Davis was (well, still is) a mass murderer. .

I agree but also see the Davis character as more of an split personality tragic kind of deal.

Like Doomsday is the mass murder and Davis is the innocent that is finding it harder and harder to do the right thing as the psycho killer personality becomes dominant.


Not only did he deserve to die, he HAD to die.

I agree but would word it at little differently. I think Doomsday deserves to die but Davis being initially innocent but drifting bad HAS to die.

Innocent or guilty the survival of mankind takes president over one “innocent or guilty” life.


In that instant, she made the right choice. I think most people would have done the same thing

Looking at it rationally I agree with you but of course it is tragic that Chloe and Davis weren’t successful in killing Doomsday.

It is too bad that Chloe and Davis didn’t have access to super intelligent space daddy
Jor-el who maybe could have told them the correct course of action to kill/neutralize Doomsday.

However that doesn’t change the fact that Chloe and Davis made the best choice they could with the intel available at the time of the decision.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[CloisFan17]

Sadly I hate to say it but yeah she did make the right choice in that moment she saved Clark even though what she wanted was Davis :)

But in the end when Davis asks if she will stay with him SHE TOTALLY MAKES THE RIGHT DECISION totally I am sooooo happy she stayed with him :)

[Jawth]

Davis was initially a victim. He lost that title when he went out in search of people to slaughter (criminals, granted, but it doesn't look like all of them were offenders bad enough to die).

Looking back now, I'm curious why no one even brought up the possiblity of the Phantom Zone though....


That said, it was totally in-character for Clark to be hellbent against the idea. He's shown in the past seasons to be willing to kill to save life (though NOT if it means innocent people have to die) but there was always a clear and present danger that threatened people at that time.

Superman has also been shown to kill (the original, Golden Age character did alarmingly often) through the execution of the Phantom Zone criminals and finally cutting loose against Doomsday.

Even the Silver Age Superman slew Mxy, but out of guilt chose to depower himself and live life as a normal man, feeling he abused his power.

[MountainSniper]

Hi Patalaimon,


I thought that was quite obvious.
Davis is an innocent victim (of Doomsday).

Innocence doesn’t come into it. It might be easier to stomach when in Vessel a mass murder like Lex needs to be sacrificed to save mankind but that doesn’t change the reality like in Legion when an innocent like Chloe needs to be sacrificed to save mankind.

Innocent or guilty one life is not worth risking the existence of mankind or in Doomsday’s case the existence of all life on earth.



Killing an innocent for the greater good may be the best choice in the end, but can still be considered morally objectionable.

How so? What is immoral is being apathetic about your responsibilities and risking the existence of all of mankind due to “choosing not to destroy a super powered alien monster bent on the destruction of Clark, life on earth etc?”

It never turns out well when Clark refuses to heed Jor-el’s warnings and ignores Jor-el plans to solve the crisis. Instead like in Vessel dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of innocents end up dead or injured and the result of Clark not taking early action against t Doomsday is no different.

Clark should get up to the fortress and do a powwow with super intelligent space daddy Jor-el and for once in his life execute Jor-el’s solution plan with no delay.

But no as usual the BDA is going to be apathetic and there is nothing moral about the net result where a whole butch of innocents end up dead due to the inability to made the hard call.



Well perhaps Davis is no longer innocent since he started killing to avoid turning into Doomsday (another choice that may have been right, but not moral), but he is definitely a victim.

In practical terms your above point is irrelevant.

Innocent or guilty no single life is worth risking the existence of all mankind by not taking out the super powered alien space monster and nor is such a moral choice.


Cheers Mountain Sniper

[MountainSniper]

Hi Jawth,


Davis was initially a victim. He lost that title when he went out in search of people to slaughter (criminals, granted, but it doesn't look like all of them were offenders bad enough to die). .

I agree but I still like the split personality concept and believe it makes for better story telling (empathy with the character) with the innocent Davis being horrified by what is happening to him as the psycho killer personality of Doomsday slowly becomes dominant.



Looking back now, I'm curious why no one even brought up the possiblity of the Phantom Zone though.....

Because BDA Clark doesn't put his brain in gear and think to go talk to Jor-el and check out the ideas of his super intelligent kryptonian scientist daddy. Instead Clark goes with his own apathetic BDA ideas which usually result in a lot of dead innocents and/or shear dumb luck coming to his rescue.

In practical terms I don’t think Clark has a way to send someone to the Phantom Zone in Smallville/Metropolis but unless he checks in with Jor-el for all he knows such a device is sitting on a crystal shelf in the Fortress.



That said, it was totally in-character for Clark to be hellbent against the idea. He's shown in the past seasons to be willing to kill to save life (though NOT if it means innocent people have to die) but there was always a clear and present danger that threatened people at that time.

The “No Clark Killing” is one of the things about Smallville that really irritates the logical mind.

In Vessel ignoring super intelligent space daddy Jor-el, Clark won’t kill mass murder psycho Lex Luther to protect the human race from Zod.

Meanwhile time and time again Clark kills meteor freaks, zoners, phantom or the politically correct writers have other characters stand in for Clark to do the killing for him as some kind of “get out of jail free” killing card.

In the pilot episode Clark dropped a ton of metal on bug boy and later in the first season “kills?” Sean Kelvin in the episode Cool by throwing him into the lake which freezes.

Then in Gone when Clark uses his heat vision to kill Trent the kid with the metal blades for arms while at the same time Lois helps in the killing by shooting Trent with the electrocution gun?

Then Clark kills the sentient being Gloria in Wither when once again using heat vision he makes a sprinkler burst over the lights in the greenhouse and thus electrocuting Gloria and causing her to vaporize. Then in Combat in a direct hand to hand fight Clark kills sentient being Titan.

An example of the “get out of jail free card” for Clark killing is the Martian Manhunter twice killing sentient beings ie Aliens/Zoners to save Clark’s life.

Then in another "get out of jail free card" for Clark killing was Lana having to kill Bizzaro in order to save Clark.

In fact Lana even killed one of Morgan Edge’s henchmen in the barn by kicking him onto a pitchfork in order to save Jonathan and Martha Kent.

Even Chloe has killed on the show when she shoots Gabriel in the missile silo in an attempt to stop the launch of the nuclear missile and thus save Smallville.

There is no rhyme or reason to the “killing rule” logic on Smallville except the bodies keep pilling up.

Cheers Mountain Sniper

[Pantalaimon]

Innocent or guilty no single life is worth risking the existence of all mankind by not taking out the super powered alien space monster and nor is such a moral choice.

The problem with your argument is that you assume those are the only two options: kill one person or save the rest of the world. However, you can never know beforehand whether those are the only two possible outcomes, and certainly not in this case.

Clark seems to believe there is always another way and even though that may seem very unlikely in some situations, who can say? In my oppinion that is a valid objection to killing that single person.

The conventional issue about killing is that we do not get to decide who lives and who dies. In that respect you are right that it shouldn't matter whether someone is innocent or not, but that doesn't seem to be the point you're making.

You seem to be saying that the end justifies the means, whatever the means are (killing innocent or guilty doesn't matter). That may be a valid opinion, but I think it's generally accepted it is not a moral stance. To be clear, one immoral choice doens't make you and immoral person. As I said earlier, the moral stance may not always be the right one.

I guess the point I'm making is that the choice is never a simple one and there are shades of grey to be considered. I don't believe the end necessarily justifies the means and you have to carefully consider both the end (protecting millions of innocents is worth much, but you never know how many people are really in danger) and the means (killing a monster that is actually killing people is different from killing a man that is also trying to prevent that monster from killing people - they happen to be the same in this case, but it does complicate matters).

This may be a somewhat arrogant stance. You still have to decide who gets to live and die and why. But I think we can agree you can't hide away from such a choice when millions are at stake. However that doesn't mean you can rush such a choice either and I can certainly understand why someone would only kill as a last resort.

[malft]

I brought up the Phantom Zone in another thread as an option. I think Chloe was picturing her Pain in the Ass husband when she pulled the lever.

[tmchale1970]

clark is gonna go balistic when he finds out chloe is hiding davis in the talon basement.chloe is getting more untrustworthy as the season goes on.murdering people to protect clark while not under the influence of brainac and god knows what revelations are to come.could chloe betray clark?

[MountainSniper]

Hi Pantalaimon,


The problem with your argument is that you assume those are the only two options: kill one person or save the rest of the world. However, you can never know beforehand whether those are the only two possible outcomes, and certainly not in this case. .

You never know anything for sure so if you waited for certainty you would never do anything, ever, about anything.

A reasonable rule of thumb for Clark is where the fate of the entire world is at stake it is usually pretty smart to listen to your super intelligent space daddy’s advice for dealing with the threat.

Clark didn’t do that and instead of one death of a psycho mass murder Lex Clark is partly responsible for the dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions of people killed in the riots of Black Thursday.


Clark seems to believe there is always another way and even though that may seem very unlikely in some situations, who can say? In my oppinion that is a valid objection to killing that single person.


Who? How about all those innocent people around the world killed in the riots and those additional innocent people killed by the phantoms Clark released from the Phantom zone when he escaped.


The conventional issue about killing is that we do not get to decide who lives and who dies.

Who told you this?

Does your personal philosophy apply to someone that has the fate of the world dependent on his decision to save it by taking a single life?


In that respect you are right that it shouldn't matter whether someone is innocent or not, but that doesn't seem to be the point you're making.


The point is one life innocent or guilty is not worth all mankind. It’s not rocket science.


but I think it's generally accepted it is not a moral stance.

That is only your personal opinion which is fine however that doesn’t change my personal opinion of the situations in discussion on Smallville which is sometimes one life has to be sacrificed for the sake of all mankind.


I guess the point I'm making is that the choice is never a simple one and there are shades of grey to be considered.

Clark didn’t have the luxury of time on Smallville and what happened was dozens, hundreds, thousands, millions died etc.

Zod escaped and Clark only by dumb luck, circumstance and fate was able to escape the Phantom zone and defeat Zod but that doesn’t bring back to life all the innocents killing in riots and by Phantoms etc.

It was not Clark’s brilliant plan that defeated Brainiac since he wanted the Legion and their special powers to immediately return to the future. It is only because the Legion refused to listen to Clark and stayed that their special powers were available to defeat Brainiac.

Clark’s inability to make the tough call in a timely manner either increases the risk to the world or results in the deaths of a whole lot of innocent people. There is nothing moral or noble about it.


Cheers Mountain Sniper

[jpfort1957]

Bad choice for Chloe.