Leave my Chloe ALONE!

[SGuthrie27]

Argh! I am SO sick of practically every character on this show dumping on Chloe. It seems like every episode lately she becomes the emotional punching bag for everyone when they need to vent their frustrations, and all she ever seems to do is look guilty and take it graciously, which is more than the other deserve.

If I hear Clark give her ONE more lecture about keeping secrets from him, when he KNOWS that she has and will always have his best interests at heart, and has kept his secret faithfully for four years, I think I will vomit or want to punch my TV screen. He gives her way too many guilt trips and rarely apologizes for his horrid treatment of her this season, which is really upsetting. Excuse her, Clark, for keeping a few other people's secrets for a change along with your own, and for having her own opinion! Grr... Let's have Clark tell her what he did to her memories in "Abyss" and see if she's still so forgiving.

And then we've got the Chloe/Oliver scenes which were VERY well-acted, but once again, we have Chloe being twisted and emotionally manipulated by another character who think they know everything. Oliver was trying to rationalize everything he was doing, and he blackmailed, cajoled, belittled, and otherwise shoved Chloe into following his every whim. Why are they making her into such a pushover lately?

I could even get mad at Lana for sitting right next to her and giving her that big hug when she's pumped so full of Kryptonite. Are you trying to irradiate her too, or make it so SHE can't even come close to Clark anymore? I'm really just kidding on that one. ;)

I just LOVE the character of Chloe -- she's always been portrayed as the most "human" and "lovably flawed" characters on the show. I just can't help for like her character and the way she tries to bring out the best in everyone. I simply hope that, eventually, all the other characters will treat her as the true friend that she is.

Anyone agree with me and feeling irked by this?

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[ywm]

:(

[RingzTerritory]

Chloe is a killer, chloe is now just as bad as lex, a worthless evil killer. screw her lol.

[Krypton935]

I know! They definitely need to leave Chloe alone! She has always been my fave character. poor chloe...

[costas22]

Lol she was getting hits left and right!And you know what?Both Clark and Oliver were right.

[unfocused]

Lol.

[Alexander III]

Sure.

[devilneedsaride]

I'm with you. Chloe's character has really been disrespected and watered down this season.

[thehenry89]

They just love screwing fan favorites don't they?

[Superman's_Wife]

Chloe is a killer, chloe is now just as bad as lex, a worthless evil killer. screw her lol.

Don't hold back now. Tell us how you *really* feel.

I agree with the original poster. Chloe Sullivan deserves better treatment than what I have seen lately. Just another reason why I think that PS3 does a lousy job at storytelling sometimes. It's strange. They have these weird instances of brilliance and then the rest is just utter garbage.

[luthorian]

I want to hit Clark every time he starts that boring continues routine telling Chloe what she should and should not be doing. Like the guy never heard of a thing called a mirror:rolleyes:

I hate that it's always Chloe he goes after when there are a few a little more dangerous things he should worry about, which he of course always ignores completely.

I never understood the logic in that, which is probably because there is none.

[costas22]

Don't hold back now. Tell us how you *really* feel.


You think i don't like Chloe?You are wrong.But in both instances Clark and Oliver were right.The Oliver blow about Sebastian was a bit uncalled for,but Clark was right in saying that he never gave up on her in Legion.

[Dustmite]

Agreed!

[RedKalEL]

chloe was in this episode? i thought it was all lana lana lana lana

[Superman's_Wife]

You think i don't like Chloe?You are wrong.But in both instances Clark and Oliver were right.The Oliver blow about Sebastian was a bit uncalled for,but Clark was right in saying that he never gave up on her in Legion.

Let me apologize. I quoted the wrong person. I have now edited my post. :)

[Night_Hawk90]

but clark was actually right this time for ripping on her.

[Autumn]

I want to hit Clark every time he starts that boring continues routine telling Chloe what she should and should not be doing. Like the guy never heard of a thing called a mirror:rolleyes:

I hate that it's always Chloe he goes after when there are a few a little more dangerous things he should worry about, which he of course always ignores completely.

I never understood the logic in that, which is probably because there is none.

I can't stand Clark anymore. It has come to this. He is a complete self-righteous hypocrite. He definitely should take a look in the mirror before he continues pointing fingers. I didn't see him confess to Chloe how he stole her memories, he's not enough of a man to even do that.

And was it just me, but I swear Chloe was acting like she couldn't stand Clark last night. She just acted annoyed IMO, though still loyal to a fault.

And then Clark to Chloe, was like killing is never okay and judges her (like he's never acted on this impulse), and in the same episode he tries to kill Lex (I guess it's okay whenever someone gets in the way of his Lana relationship. This is when he tried to kill Lionel too). Hypocrisy, plain and simple.

----- Added 4 Minutes later -----


but clark was actually right this time for ripping on her.

It was hypocrisy IMO. Clark acts like he's God, and it is getting on my nerves. If he looks in the mirror before pointing fingers, then I will take his ripping at Chloe much more seriously. I didn't see him pointing fingers at Lana's much worse dubious behavior over the years. No, because to Clark, she's still a fairy princess, and by the way, Clark can never be wrong. I cannot stand his barging and accusing act any longer. Not one second longer.

[RingzTerritory]

Don't hold back now. Tell us how you *really* feel.

I agree with the original poster. Chloe Sullivan deserves better treatment than what I have seen lately. Just another reason why I think that PS3 does a lousy job at storytelling sometimes. It's strange. They have these weird instances of brilliance and then the rest is just utter garbage.

Why waste their energy on the story of a character that they could kill off at anytime and not have it affect the story at all? lol before jimmy olsen came along I thought chloe was the female version of him, now that he's here shes simply a desperate useless character. She doesn't even need to be in the show anymore LOL.

You can't demand a better story line for someone who doesn't even fit into this story. lol :) chloe should be happy with whatever story she gets because she isn't ever going to get a lois, clark or lana or lex story, even doomsday gets a better story. :rotfl:

[nic25]

You think i don't like Chloe?You are wrong.But in both instances Clark and Oliver were right.The Oliver blow about Sebastian was a bit uncalled for,but Clark was right in saying that he never gave up on her in Legion.

Your right,and i love Chole as well,but something just doesnt seem right about her.She just seems really off.

[luthorian]

^^ I saw Chloe's additude towards Clark had finally changed in Prey. She finally stood up against his stupid accusations. I hope we see more of that Chloe in the future. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about how he treats people like he owns them or something.

[Superman's_Wife]

Why waste their energy on the story of a character that they could kill off at anytime and not have it affect the story at all? lol before jimmy olsen came along I thought chloe was the female version of him, now that he's here shes simply a desperate useless character. She doesn't even need to be in the show anymore LOL.

You can't demand a better story line for someone who doesn't even fit into this story. lol :) chloe should be happy with whatever story she gets because she isn't ever going to get a lois, clark or lana or lex story, even doomsday gets a better story. :rotfl:

Thank you for taking the time to explain your earlier statement. I see where you are coming from, but I do not agree. Chloe Sullivan was developed in the beginning with care and love. To now throw her by the wayside just doesn't sit well with me.

[Isabel14]

I agree with you. She doesn't have the treatment she deserves, but I guess they like to dissapoint the fans..

[Superman's_Wife]

I agree with you. She doesn't have the treatment she deserves, but I guess they like to dissapoint the fans..

I'd really love to have a moment with PS3 right about now. I have 101 questions right now that I know would just make them red in the face if they had to answer them honestly.

[costas22]

Let me apologize. I quoted the wrong person. I have now edited my post.

Apology accepted.PS3 were very keen to secure Allison's sevices for the following season.They were afraid about a backlash from the Internet fans and rightfully so.As soon as that happened they have started a whole deconstruction job with her and i don't understand why.Especially the recent spoilers about Chloe in episode 18 or 19 are quite buffling.

[dru-zod2501]

while I agree with the OP, why fight any more? they're going to bury our Chloe and we can't stop them

[ZODisGOD]

What kind of show would we be watching if Chloe continually owns Clark in a heated debate? This is a Clark Kent becoming Superman show. If anything, Clark Kent is the top dog of the show and is the one who needs to look the better of the two. Clark Kent had every right to rip on Chloe last night in that episode.

If this was Chloeville, then that's a different show, but this is Smallville, a show about Clark Kent becoming God among men.

[dru-zod2501]

What kind of show would we be watching if Chloe continually owns Clark in a heated debate? This is a Clark Kent becoming Superman show. If anything, Clark Kent is the top dog of the show and is the one who needs to look the better of the two. Clark Kent had every right to rip on Chloe last night in that episode.

If this was Chloeville, then that's a different show, but this is Smallville, a show about Clark Kent becoming God among men.
unbelievable, you'd rather Clark appear to be #1 on the show even if that makes him look like a narcissistic, hypocritical ass?

Clark had no right to rag on Chloe, for helping and protecting her friends as she always does without fail; they've had this exact same argument numerous times before and Chloe's usually the one in the right. And especially when he's guilty as sin himself how can he say anything to her?

If Clark has to be the top dog, let it be because he's right, not because he's self-righteous, not because he's Clark.

Oliver... I don't even know where to begin with him

[Mrs. Superman]

YES!!! You are completely right. LEAVE CHLOE ALONE. And Id like to add that she deserves more in a scene than to simply be the character that makes other characters look good. Her praising someone else is fine, but not when it becomes the sole purpose of all her scenes.

[Vindellavon]

unbelievable, you'd rather Clark appear to be #1 on the show even if that makes him look like a narcissistic, hypocritical ass?

Clark had no right to rag on Chloe, for helping and protecting her friends as she always does without fail; they've had this exact same argument numerous times before and Chloe's usually the one in the right. And especially when he's guilty as sin himself how can he say anything to her?

If Clark has to be the top dog, let it be because he's right, not because he's self-righteous, not because he's Clark.

Oliver... I don't even know where to begin with him

Right on, buddy. They can't make CK look good on his own, so they've got to go out and destroy Chloe to 'make' him Supes?

[smallvillefreak24]

I AM sick of his lectures

all i have to say is U GO CHLO
fave character

[kal-el_Girl]

Sure.

lol there you go again love it... :cool:

[magic]

Chloe finally said something in this episode that I've been waiting for her to say for years

Chloe: "open your eyes Clark!"

finally someone had the guts to say this to him
respect to Chloe!!

[ZODisGOD]

unbelievable, you'd rather Clark appear to be #1 on the show


lol yeah, Clark Kent is the sole center of the Smallville universe after all. I've been a Clark fan since day one(never much of Chloe), and I didn't have a problem when Chloe lectured Clark in the past seasons, but Season 8 is unlike any of the past seasons. This is the season Clark Kent discovered himself and realized who he truly is, and all that. I enjoy this new Clark even more now. He's becoming a symbol of hope that I looked up to as a child. I admire the way Clark gave new light and inspiration to the Legion in Legion. I actually liked the Requiem plane Chlark scene and I can't wait to see how Clark handles Oliver Queen after he finds out about Oliver's crime. As always, Go Clark! You Rock!

[Vindellavon]

Chloe finally said something in this episode that I've been waiting for her to say for years

Chloe: "open your eyes Clark!"

finally someone had the guts to say this to him
respect to Chloe!!

Amen!

[supes0]

Chloe finally said something in this episode that I've been waiting for her to say for years

Chloe: "open your eyes Clark!"

finally someone had the guts to say this to him
respect to Chloe!!

Yep. I think Chloe and Oliver were both sacrificed in this episode. :p

[umm]

Don't hold back now. Tell us how you *really* feel.
I agree with the original poster. Chloe Sullivan deserves better treatment than what I have seen lately. Just another reason why I think that PS3 does a lousy job at storytelling sometimes. It's strange. They have these weird instances of brilliance and then the rest is just utter garbage.


I as well, agree with the original poster! What Chloe sould do, is slap Oliver, Clark, Lana silly in the face for manipulating with her constantly as long as they have! It seems that TPTB have deemed Chloe the punchback of the season! Poor Chloe! The only good thing this episode was the obious chemistry between Oliver and Chloe, it seems life he rally feels comfortable with her, like she is a kindredspirit! I wonder why TPTB never went in that direction? IT would certainly make more sense than Chimmy!

[wolverine316]

As expected even though Clark and Oliver called Chloe out on her @$%#! according to you guys they were in the wrong.:confused:

[rehana/chole]

i agreed with ur post an this thread u said every thing i was thinking . except u forgot 2 mention chole need divorce jimmy rite now ,he such a loser . she even perfore 2 spend time help ollie . i just dont like jimmy wish the write get ride of him like he dies an its his twin brother in in future dp i dont care how they do just do it lose jimming . chole na ollie hook up would b great 2 see

[SGuthrie27]

Wow, you all have had some great discussion since I posted this topic this morning. I'm glad it's gotten such buzz, and thanks for all the great debate, agreement (from many), and other good points that I'd neglected to make.

At this point, I DO think there's a chance that they can redeem Chloe's character (as PS3 have painted her out to be) and bring her back to the former greatness that we've seen in past seasons. I just grow so exhausted of seeing her being blasted over and over by everyone else on the show for keeping secrets for the other characters or for thinking she SHOULD tell someone information, when they're equally as guilty. And I end up loving her all the MORE for taking it and not giving them the knuckle sandwich they deserve, since she's proven herself to be the better person time and time again.

I long for one of the great Chlark moments we've seen in past episodes like "Labyrinth," "Arctic," and "Abyss," where Clark has really told Chloe how important she is to him -- how much she matters. He proved it again in "Legion," but then he turns around and goes on the same old rant that keeps driving so many of us crazy. For someone he professes to care so much about, he sure treats her like garbage quite a lot.

And no, I don't think they need to belittle Chloe's character and lessen her spirit to make Clark look good. Clark, as the future Superman, should be able to look good and make common sense decisions all on his own, and he needs to learn to treat his conversations with Chloe a little more gently and not just bludgeon her with accusations and platitudes all the time. How many times has Chloe given him advice and she's ended up being right on the money? How many times has she encouraged him, stood by his side unwaveringly, and reminded him of the hero he's destined to become, without ever asking for anything in return? How many times has she stood on the sidelines to let Clark run after whatever he wanted and get as much happiness as he could have, regardless of how it affected her?

To me, all these interactions do little more than to paint Chloe as increasingly SELFLESS and Clark (and others) as SELFISH.

Finally, to say that Chloe isn't from the original mythos and therefore shouldn't be important at all on the show is kind of a moot point after she's been on Smallville for 8 years and has garnered a massive fan base who love her dearly. She's etched into the canon of THIS SHOW, and she should be treated with more respect for that reason, along with all the other ones I listed above.

Those are my rather passionate two cents!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Eeyore840]

I don't think everything Chloe does is wonderful or perfect, but I do think she has been a loyal secret keeper and her life has suffered because of it. Clark and Oliver have both been disrespectful to her, which is NOT cool. I want to see Chloe grow her spine back and stop putting Clark and everyone else's needs above her own.

[SGuthrie27]

Exactly. I don't think she's perfect either, and that's probably one of the things I like about her the most. She owns up to her mistakes and feels guilty for the wrongs she's done. She has apologized to other characters, more than once, for indiscretions she's made, and sometimes even when I didn't think she needed to apologize. Great points, Eeyore840.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[abbaspice1]

Clark, the the last few episodes have been a jerk.

And I really didn't like the way Chloe was treated in this episode. I hated the way Clark and Oliver treated Chloe. Oliver, I kind of expected it. Lex killed his family, and Oliver will not let anything stand in his way of vengeance.

But Clark is way over the line. I guess Chloe is only allowed to keep secrets of HIM.

I wish Lois was back. She would have kicked Clark's tail for talking to her cousin like that. She would have told Smallville to back off.

Lois and Chloe! They seem to understand each other. And have each other's back (most of hte time). I want more of them! More Chlo-Lo.

[VicNew]

If Chloe is a newlywed who's husband is laying up in a hospital due to injuries sustained from a indestructible monster, WHY the HELL is she parading in Metropolis and not with her husband?
Did I miss something?

[Eeyore840]

Didn't they mention in a previous episode that Jimmy had been transfered to Met General? I thought I heard one of the characters say that. I could be wrong, though.

[llk6165]

Argh! I am SO sick of practically every character on this show dumping on Chloe. It seems like every episode lately she becomes the emotional punching bag for everyone when they need to vent their frustrations, and all she ever seems to do is look guilty and take it graciously, which is more than the other deserve.

If I hear Clark give her ONE more lecture about keeping secrets from him, when he KNOWS that she has and will always have his best interests at heart, and has kept his secret faithfully for four years, I think I will vomit or want to punch my TV screen. He gives her way too many guilt trips and rarely apologizes for his horrid treatment of her this season, which is really upsetting. Excuse her, Clark, for keeping a few other people's secrets for a change along with your own, and for having her own opinion! Grr... Let's have Clark tell her what he did to her memories in "Abyss" and see if she's still so forgiving.

And then we've got the Chloe/Oliver scenes which were VERY well-acted, but once again, we have Chloe being twisted and emotionally manipulated by another character who think they know everything. Oliver was trying to rationalize everything he was doing, and he blackmailed, cajoled, belittled, and otherwise shoved Chloe into following his every whim. Why are they making her into such a pushover lately?

I could even get mad at Lana for sitting right next to her and giving her that big hug when she's pumped so full of Kryptonite. Are you trying to irradiate her too, or make it so SHE can't even come close to Clark anymore? I'm really just kidding on that one. ;)

I just LOVE the character of Chloe -- she's always been portrayed as the most "human" and "lovably flawed" characters on the show. I just can't help for like her character and the way she tries to bring out the best in everyone. I simply hope that, eventually, all the other characters will treat her as the true friend that she is.

Anyone agree with me and feeling irked by this?

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

Amen. I think the people who developed SV, once again, had the makings of an awesome character and then failed to develop her as she should be. Actually she is an awesome character despite what the writers or whoever have tried to do In my opinion the credit for the character popularity goes to the actress who has done a great job. (little chloe was cute too - remember that eppy?)

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


If Chloe is a newlywed who's husband is laying up in a hospital due to injuries sustained from a indestructible monster, WHY the HELL is she parading in Metropolis and not with her husband?
Did I miss something?


bad writing. I felt bad for AM

[Night-Wolf]

I agree. Stop ruining Chloe's character! It's not fair what the show is doing to her! They're trying to do with Chloe what they did with Lana. They seem to like to destroy the character of the leading actress. Now that AM's the leading actress in season 8 they feel the need to ruin her character as well. I love Chloe, specially since season 4. She's been such a great and loyal best friend. And she's always been a great journalist, it's not fair what they did to her by pulling her away from the daily planet and throwing her into the isis foundation. That's not where she belongs :mad:! Her dream was the daily planet and she was damm good with that career.

[unfocused]

If Chloe is a newlywed who's husband is laying up in a hospital due to injuries sustained from a indestructible monster, WHY the HELL is she parading in Metropolis and not with her husband?
Did I miss something?

I know right? Chloe has topped even herself as the worst wife ever.

Anyway, the route they're taking Chloe seems like a dark one. I'm beginning to expect her death near series' end. Or maybe even season's end. So I couldn't care less what they do with her anymore. She's murdered a man, she doesn't spend any time with her dying husband, and she's letting her cousin take care of him for her. She's more than just a terrible wife, she's a terrible person.

I was hoping they would turn her character around a bit, and use her better. Maybe even add her in the spin off they might be making. But it doesn't look like that's what they want to do with the Chloe character. It's beginning to look like they are leading to a point where "her death is what pushes Clark to put the cape on," as the Legion suggested.

[kg1507]

I agree. I feel bad for Chloe's character. She has so many people to think about and is always trying to make people happy that she dosen't really spend any time on herself anymore. She's going to snap one of these days...

[rebecavaldez]

I like the Chlollie scene, but yeah, he was being a jerk. People back off and leave Chloe alone!

[vikingjedi]

Argh! I am SO sick of practically every character on this show dumping on Chloe. It seems like every episode lately she becomes the emotional punching bag for everyone when they need to vent their frustrations, and all she ever seems to do is look guilty and take it graciously, which is more than the other deserve.

If I hear Clark give her ONE more lecture about keeping secrets from him, when he KNOWS that she has and will always have his best interests at heart, and has kept his secret faithfully for four years, I think I will vomit or want to punch my TV screen. He gives her way too many guilt trips and rarely apologizes for his horrid treatment of her this season, which is really upsetting. Excuse her, Clark, for keeping a few other people's secrets for a change along with your own, and for having her own opinion! Grr... Let's have Clark tell her what he did to her memories in "Abyss" and see if she's still so forgiving.

And then we've got the Chloe/Oliver scenes which were VERY well-acted, but once again, we have Chloe being twisted and emotionally manipulated by another character who think they know everything. Oliver was trying to rationalize everything he was doing, and he blackmailed, cajoled, belittled, and otherwise shoved Chloe into following his every whim. Why are they making her into such a pushover lately?

I could even get mad at Lana for sitting right next to her and giving her that big hug when she's pumped so full of Kryptonite. Are you trying to irradiate her too, or make it so SHE can't even come close to Clark anymore? I'm really just kidding on that one. ;)

I just LOVE the character of Chloe -- she's always been portrayed as the most "human" and "lovably flawed" characters on the show. I just can't help for like her character and the way she tries to bring out the best in everyone. I simply hope that, eventually, all the other characters will treat her as the true friend that she is.

Anyone agree with me and feeling irked by this?

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

Well said!

[Disco_Lemonade]

Chloe is a killer, chloe is now just as bad as lex, a worthless evil killer. screw her lol.


As expected even though Clark and Oliver called Chloe out on her @$%#! according to you guys they were in the wrong.:confused:


I know right? Chloe has topped even herself as the worst wife ever.

Anyway, the route they're taking Chloe seems like a dark one. I'm beginning to expect her death near series' end. Or maybe even season's end. So I couldn't care less what they do with her anymore. She's murdered a man, she doesn't spend any time with her dying husband, and she's letting her cousin take care of him for her. She's more than just a terrible wife, she's a terrible person.

I was hoping they would turn her character around a bit, and use her better. Maybe even add her in the spin off they might be making. But it doesn't look like that's what they want to do with the Chloe character. It's beginning to look like they are leading to a point where "her death is what pushes Clark to put the cape on," as the Legion suggested.

First of all—though my last eye exam was in the 8th grade, so I could be wrong—the last time I checked this thread was justly titled, "LEAVE CHLOE ALONE"!!! So I don't know why you're here if all you want to do is denunciate her character.

Secondly. I guess my eyes must decieve me. I swear Visage marked the day that Clark Kent took another persons life because that person took advantage of someone he cared about. Gosh, it was Chloe then too, wasn't it. These sad, sad eyes have decieved me. I could have sworn I saw flannel. And then we he took off after slipping some Red K—though I had thought him previously to be robbing banks in Metropolis and sleeping with everything that has two legs—he must have been apprenticing to be a Monk. I guess, when your can't see beyond the illusions, that Clark is really an alter boy.

And don't even get me started on Oliver. He called her out on her ****. Good god, thank you Oliver. You're such a saint, too. Helping Chloe to realize the error in her ways. Why thanks. I would have appreciated it more if the only reason he brought it up wasn't because he wanted Chloe to help him kill Lex Luthor.

Thirdly, I'm sorry that the writers have left all of the Chimmy in offscreensville. But that's the way Smallville is. EVERYTHING that doesn't involve Clark Kent is reserved for offscreensville. I'm personally sorry for that. Let me be your scapegoat. It's entertaining.

Forthly. I do not believe any one ever said Chloe was perfect. This isn't Stepford. Chloe is flawed, but so is every one else. I pity that you cannot see the imperfections in the rest of the Smallville characters.

And lastly, thank you RingzTerritory, for giving us all permission to screw her. She's bangable.

^^^ I blame the vulgarity on having way too many brothers... :rotfl:

[SGuthrie27]

Yeah, I'm not sure what the offscreen Chimmy stuff has anything to do with this conversation. So we're to assume that Chloe is a horrible wife because we're never SHOWN her visiting Jimmy's bedside? She mentioned rushing off to be with him in both "Legion" and "Bulletproof," and I believe you all were correct, he was being transferred to Met General. She's not going to be by his bedside every minute of every day, especially when things start blowing up, and people's lives are in danger (including her best friend's). So, personally, I don't think that's being a horrible wife at all. It's all a matter of Aaron Ashmore not being contracted for as many episodes, and thus we're not able to see their interactions and how often she's with him. Allison Mack is contracted for ALL episodes this season, and thus we've been treated to four episodes of her without Jimmy. That's not showing any flaws for Chloe -- it's just the fault of the writers.

Again, this thread is about the way that other characters have been treating Chloe as of late, and the way they badmouth her for the same things that they themselves do. And yeah, pretty much every character on Smallville has ended up killing somebody at sometime or another. Lana herself killed Genevieve Teague while under the influence of Isobel Thoreaux. Chloe killed Sebastian while under the influence of Brainiac. At least the killing Chloe did (albeit still wrong) was in order to protect Clark's secret and his very life, not to mention the fact that the guy was a serial killer perv. Again, not saying murder is right (it's obviously not), but I'm just pointing out that these characters are pretty ridiculous to be reaming her for their own problems.

Thanks for the back-up, vikingjedi, Disco Lemonade, Night-Wolf, llk6165, and abbaspice1. Keep the good conversation coming!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[CK&CK]

Chloe is a joke now.....and if Allison Mack ends up getting sterotyped.....she's earned it unfornately. I've lost a lot of respect for her......don't give a crap whether she has control of the show or not.....she knew where this show has been heading....she's not stupid...she's obviously quite intelligent......and if she's gonna enjoy the glory moments of Smallville (which she definitely has).....she's got to accept the bad as well.......and I'll repeat it one last time......talented or not......I have no respect for Allison Mack as an actress anymore. Directing abilities however.....now that's quite another story.....too bad her directorial debut involved directing such a crap piece of writting.

[Storm45]

What kind of show would we be watching if Chloe continually owns Clark in a heated debate? This is a Clark Kent becoming Superman show. If anything, Clark Kent is the top dog of the show and is the one who needs to look the better of the two. Clark Kent had every right to rip on Chloe last night in that episode.

If this was Chloeville, then that's a different show, but this is Smallville, a show about Clark Kent becoming God among men.


So Smallville must be about a guy who has every right to wipe others memories, act like an hypocrite and mistreat others because he has superpowers? Nice lesson to show on television.

The thing is that Smallville depict a flawed Clark Kent. He's not perfect. He's not a God. Aside from having superpowers he's like everyone else.

There's no reasons for his glaring mistakes to be overlooked or exucses only because he's supposed to be Superman.


Anyway, the route they're taking Chloe seems like a dark one. I'm beginning to expect her death near series' end. Or maybe even season's end. So I couldn't care less what they do with her anymore. She's murdered a man, she doesn't spend any time with her dying husband, and she's letting her cousin take care of him for her. She's more than just a terrible wife, she's a terrible person.


Jimmy is not dying and Chloe did not hold Lois at gunpoint to stay in Star City, as far as we know. We don't even know what Lois is doing since Legion.

[dru-zod2501]

lol yeah, Clark Kent is the sole center of the Smallville universe after all. I've been a Clark fan since day one(never much of Chloe), and I didn't have a problem when Chloe lectured Clark in the past seasons, but Season 8 is unlike any of the past seasons. This is the season Clark Kent discovered himself and realized who he truly is, and all that. I enjoy this new Clark even more now. He's becoming a symbol of hope that I looked up to as a child. I admire the way Clark gave new light and inspiration to the Legion in Legion. I actually liked the Requiem plane Chlark scene and I can't wait to see how Clark handles Oliver Queen after he finds out about Oliver's crime. As always, Go Clark! You Rock!
wow, you ignored the rest of my post, biased much?

you're entitled to think that Clark is the greatest 24/7/365 no matter what, but I won't. I don't care if you're Superman or Jesus, if I detect ******** I won't stand by it, and I have nothing but respect for those who call others on their ********

[unfocused]

Chloe is a joke now.....and if Allison Mack ends up getting sterotyped.....she's earned it unfornately. I've lost a lot of respect for her......don't give a crap whether she has control of the show or not.....she knew where this show has been heading....she's not stupid...she's obviously quite intelligent......and if she's gonna enjoy the glory moments of Smallville (which she definitely has).....she's got to accept the bad as well.......and I'll repeat it one last time......talented or not......I have no respect for Allison Mack as an actress anymore. Directing abilities however.....now that's quite another story.....too bad her directorial debut involved directing such a crap piece of writting.

Well said :)

[SGuthrie27]

Storm45, you're so right. Clark has continually been displayed as someone who is GROWING into the hero he will one day become, and as a guy who DOES make mistakes, and (in some seasons) tries to learn from them. In the first arc of this season, it really felt like he was heading in the right direction, but lately, it's like he's heading back down all those avenues he's already tried, or when he's not doing that, he's acting all holier-than-thou and as though his opinion is the only one that has any merit. Clark should not be held to a different standard than Chloe just because he's a future superhero. When he makes mistakes, he should own up to them, like Chloe does, and apologize for treating others like dirt.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[wolverine316]

All the characters on the show are incredibly flawed but don't do "Aw poor Chloe leave her alone" and not expect to get a few disagreements. If Clark acts self-righteous and gets ripped on this site for it then so should Chloe.

[unfocused]

True.

[sithius]

I agree with the poster earlier who pointed out how hypocritical Clark is.

'NEVER KILL' blah blah blah 'HOW DARE YOU THINK ABOUT KILLING LEX BECAUSE HIS FATHER KILLED YOUR PARENTS!'

later on in the episode...

'How dare Lex break us up. I'm going to kill him!'

No one is even dead (unlike Ollie's situation) yet mighty Clark feels the need to kill a man. I guess he is exempt from his own rule, huh? *****. I'm sorry but I've had enough of this moron. PS3 better pull their socks up fast, because they've screwed up big time in the last couple of episodes. Such a shame really, because they were doing so well. Oh well, I suppose they needed to do it to make great Lana appear like the Goddess that she is by being the one to tell Clark that killing is wrong.

[smvlladdict]

It's about time someone held her accountable!!!

----- Added 41 Seconds later -----

Take the RED OFF CHLO!

[unfocused]

This thread reminds me of this video

Chris Crocker - LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!
http://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/1.jpghttp://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/2.jpghttp://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/3.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

CHLOE'S A HUMAN!

[sithius]

This thread reminds me of this video

Chris Crocker - LEAVE BRITNEY ALONE!
http://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/1.jpghttp://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/2.jpghttp://img.youtube.com/vi/kHmvkRoEowc/3.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

CHLOE'S A HUMAN!

LOL, someone has to do a parody, but with Lana.

'SHE'S GONE OK, YOU GUYS HAPPY NOW?'

[Genevieve]

Yep. I think Chloe and Oliver were both sacrificed in this episode. :p

At the altar of Lana.

Actually, I think every character in this episode was sodomized for the glory of Lana.

[SGuthrie27]

It did seem pretty incredible that Clark had bashed Chloe so much earlier in the episode for even considering killing Lex as an option, and then was ready to do the deed once Lana was transformed into "Kryptonite Lass" (how Legion of Super Heroes is that name?). It was also odd that it was Lana who defended Lex from being killed by Clark considering all the horror he put her through and had just caused her to endure by losing Clark forever. The writers really DID try to make her look better by making everyone else look worse and having her make the decisions and have the opinions that they themselves should have made and had.

And by the way, I'm not saying that people don't have the right to disagree with my opinion at all. Feel free to do so. This is a discussion board, after all. I just enjoy hearing people's point of view on the subject, and to commiserate with other people who feel that Chloe has been repeatedly mistreated during the past season (if not longer).

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

I didn't hear Clark say he was going to kill Lex, all I heard was Lana saying he would. Clark just said he wanted to stop him. Clark wouldn't murder anyone in cold blood, that's Chloe's job.

[Genevieve]

I didn't hear Clark say he was going to kill Lex, all I heard was Lana saying he would. Clark just said he wanted to stop him. Clark wouldn't murder anyone in cold blood, that's Chloe's job.


Or Lex's or Tess's or Oliver's or Lana's. Let's not let our biases get in the way. Just about every character on this show has had their WTF? moments. ;)

ETA: Maybe Dooms will kill them all, and save the character assassinations and OOC behavior for another show. :)

[unfocused]

Yeah you're right. I'll rephrase: Clark wouldn't murder anyone in cold blood. That's Chloe's and/or Oliver's job. ;)

ETA: Oh what the hay, let them both murder together!

[Genevieve]

Yeah you're right. I'll rephrase: Clark wouldn't murder anyone in cold blood. That's Chloe's and/or Oliver's job. ;)

ETA: Oh what the hay, let them both murder together!

Anything's possible on this show. Wouldn't surprise me anymore.

[unfocused]

Well they do a good job of making eachother look like bumbling murderers. So why not?

[sithius]

I didn't hear Clark say he was going to kill Lex, all I heard was Lana saying he would. Clark just said he wanted to stop him. Clark wouldn't murder anyone in cold blood, that's Chloe's job.

The writers intended Clark to kill him though, hence they wrote Lana's speech.

[Genevieve]

Well they do a good job of making eachother look like bumbling murderers. So why not?


Actually, it's the bumbling writers who do that. But, I digress.

[Jedimaster_TTBaby]

Poor Chloe :(. That's really sad, but, it's been happening for a while now...I think since the series began. They really need to lay off now!!!

There was even this one interview with AM and she joked that she thinks the writers set out to hurt her character lol :lol:.

[unfocused]

The writers intended Clark to kill him though, hence they wrote Lana's speech.
That's not very convincing. Lana's speech was based on what she thought. Not what Clark was thinking.


Actually, it's the bumbling writers who do that. But, I digress.
The characters are what the writers make them out to be. And they made Chloe and Oliver bumbling murderers. So, Chloe and Oliver are bumbling murderers...

[Genevieve]

That's not very convincing. Lana's speech was based on what she thought. Not what Clark was thinking.


The characters are what the writers make them out to be. And they made Chloe and Oliver bumbling murderers. So, Chloe and Oliver are bumbling murderers...

And they've made every other character on the show look like an idiot at one time or another. That's my point, which you fail to see. No character on this show is beyond reproach, and each of them has at one time or another been written in an unsatisfactory manner, acted out of character, done things with little or no motivation, been used as a plot device, etc. That's all I'm saying. It's obvious we disagree, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks. :)

I'm not happy with the behavior of any of the characters in this episode, and yes, I blame the writers for that, because they are so plot driven, rather than character driven, which would you know, make more sense and not have half the fandom scratching their heads over characters who say one thing and do another, or say one thing one week, and then contradict themselves the next, or tear down one character to build up another. It's been the way SV works for awhile now, and it's poor writing, IMO.

Clark doesn't need everyone else around him to be morally ambiguous for him to be a hero. Lana doesn't need everyone else around her to make bad decisions for her to be the wise one. But that's how SV does things, they don't know how to write character driven stories.

[unfocused]

Thanks for your opinion.

But I don't really see where we actually disagree. I mean, don't we both agree that Chloe and Oliver are murderers? :)

[Genevieve]

Thanks for your opinion.

But I don't really see where we actually disagree. I mean, don't we both agree that Chloe and Oliver are murderers? :)

I think the whole thing was character assassination for both of them, and I think they were sacrificed for the sake of Lana, so that she ends up by the end of the episode looking like the only person worth the title of hero. But honestly, I'm getting to the point where I just don't care anymore what happens on this show, it's gotten so bad. So yeah, I'm done here. You can try engaging someone else now. I'll stick to the fanfic section where the writing is much better.

[unfocused]

Gee, I didn't know agreement was so hard :rolleyes:

[SGuthrie27]

And they've made every other character on the show look like an idiot at one time or another. That's my point, which you fail to see. No character on this show is beyond reproach, and each of them has at one time or another been written in an unsatisfactory manner, acted out of character, done things with little or no motivation, been used as a plot device, etc. That's all I'm saying. It's obvious we disagree, so I'll leave it at that. Thanks. :)

I'm not happy with the behavior of any of the characters in this episode, and yes, I blame the writers for that, because they are so plot driven, rather than character driven, which would you know, make more sense and not have half the fandom scratching their heads over characters who say one thing and do another, or say one thing one week, and then contradict themselves the next, or tear down one character to build up another. It's been the way SV works for awhile now, and it's poor writing, IMO.

Clark doesn't need everyone else around him to be morally ambiguous for him to be a hero. Lana doesn't need everyone else around her to make bad decisions for her to be the wise one. But that's how SV does things, they don't know how to write character driven stories.

I totally agree with you there, Genevieve. Great points made all around. It is a problem of the writing -- if characters showed gradual progression and change from season to season it'd be one thing, but the writers seem to heartily enjoy making their characters act OOC and flip-flop every other episode in their opinions, reactions to each other, and, as shown in "Requiem," even their morals.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[SGuthrie27]

I've done some research to refresh myself on the way that Clark has treated Chloe in past seasons to see just how much he's dumped on her, and when. Here's the breakdown that I've come up with.

In Season 1, we didn't really have too many major problems. Clark blew up at Chloe once, but it was understandable -- Chloe kept digging into Clark's family history after he told her specifically not to. She was definitely in the wrong in that case, and he had every reason to be angry, even though they both apologized to each other.

In Season 2, I can't say much for what either character did. Chloe was so hung up on Clark that she caved and accepted Lionel's offer to research Clark for a job at the Daily Planet -- her lowest moment in the series in my opinion. However, Clark wasn't too kind to her on a couple of occasions either, especially in "Rosetta" when he blasted her about the way she'd blown up at Lana for poking around in her private, personal computer files. That was pretty ridiculous. Not to mention the way he blew her off in "Witness."

Clark's treatment of Chloe was the best in Season 3, I think. He learned about her deal with Lionel (which had been semi-short-lived, at least in her desire to complete her end of the bargain in it). He forgave her for that eventually, and for her indiscretions while under the influence of the "Truth" kryptonite gas. Both were pretty major errors on Chloe's part, and it shows true character from Clark to be willing to still accept her as a friend and confidante. Of course, he'd made some morally gray decisions himself by running off to Metropolis and abandoning Lana and his parents while wantonly robbing banks, but I digress...

Nothing bad really happened in the Chlark relationship in Season 4. If anything, the two of them stuck together through thick and thin in that season, and Chloe's discovery of Clark's secret cemented their relationship that much more solidly. They treated each other with consistent respect and friendship (except maybe for half an episode when Clark's body was inhabited by Lionel -- "Transference").

Things started out pretty "super" for the Chlark relationship in Season 5, but we got our first taste of Clark's bad treatment of Chloe in the way he was always nagging her about how Lana felt about him and asking her for relationship advice, which is really not something a guy should do when he's talking to a girl who still loves him, regardless of whether or not they're now "best friends" and he knows she knows his secret. Then there was the way he got on her case for concealing Lex & Lana's relationship -- a really low blow considering how faithfully Chloe had been keeping the truth about him safe. At least he apologized that time.

Season 6 had some big ups and downs for Chlark. He was awesome in the way he treated her during her freak-out (pun definitely intended) in "Freak" when she found out about her meteor powers, but he got all holier-than-thou again by bashing her for keeping Lana's "pregnancy" a secret, and then again in "Noir" for, once again, keeping something about Lana hush-hush. Thankfully Clark still knew how to apologize at this point.

Season 7 worked out pretty well in terms of Clark and Chloe keeping their friendship on the right track. He was exceptionally supportive of her in the season premiere, along with "Cure" and "Fracture." The way he wanted to go after Lex so badly in "Arctic" was also nice, since it was partially because of Chloe's unfair arrest (kidnapping). The only time, in fact, that Clark WAS rude to Chloe in this season was when he found out she was secretly doing some sidekick jobs for Oliver, too, which is at least a little bit understandable. He was mainly worried about her safety, which is noble, so I can't fault him for being a little irked at her in that case.

Finally, that brings us to PS3's run this season... Oy. How many times did Clark get on Chloe's case this season, anyway? I guess it started off for reasonable reasons -- he was concerned about her apparent Brainiac abilities, and for good reason as it turned out, even if it was because of them that she was able to rescue both Kara and Clark from the Phantom Zone, avert Oliver's death in "Toxic," and figure out how to stop Maxima in "Instinct." He was pretty rude and obnoxious to her in "Prey," even if he was hunting down a killer. Once again, the focus was on her keeping a secret from him that wasn't his that's my main beef with what happened, but in this case, Clark was partly in the right, too, as one of her "patients" turned out to be the killer (at least of one person, even though Doomsday had killed off the rest of the recent victims). The worst things Clark did to Chloe this season were his removal of her memories of his secret in "Abyss" without her approval (I still don't understand how he could justify taking away something she'd just said was so precious to her, regardless of him thinking it would keep her safer), and then the severe bashing he gave her in both "Power" and "Requiem" about keeping Lana's and Oliver's secrets. That's when the hypocrisy, for me, really stood out.

I hope you enjoyed my crazy analysis and walk down memory lane.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Pantalaimon]

I think his accusations were a little uncalled for in Requiem.

I did really like the Oliver and Chloe stuff. He is sort of blackmailing her, but he has his reasons. This will make for some interesting stories later on. I'm guessing this will tie in to the falling out between Clark and Chloe.

I suspect things will get a lot worse for her, so steel yourself Chloe fans.

But take hope from the knowledge that this is the first time in years she's had a meaningful arc. It will all be for the best.

[Serynarpc]

Clark wasn't right for ripping on her. She was wrong to cut him out, but it was only because she was protecting his best interests. How often has Clark done the same thing to her? In the honesty game, Chloe's won all the points- after all, she was the one who first counseled telling Lana and being honest to the people he cared for.

I do believe that Chloe needs to become more assertive as in Hydro and Prey to tell Clark to back off the morality train. He's been playing 'break all the furniture' with Lana when Chloe and Oliver were keeping their eye on the ball. It's time for Clark to develop a better attention span.

[unfocused]

I don't see how what Clark did was so bad...

He simply did not want Chloe and Oliver to kill Lex, he's always felt that way. In canon and in Smallville.

I think what hits people the most is how hard he shut her up. I mean, it took a lot for him to not kill her in Legion, and now here she is trying to murder, again, "for the greater good." And he called her out on that. He fought hard to save her life, to find another way other than murder. And here she is now, a murderer and an accomplice to another murder.

How would you guys feel about Chloe if Clark never found out about Oliver's and Chloe's plan to murder Lex Luthor, and those two ended up doing it anyway? The sad truth is, they actually did kill Lex (for the time being) and no one realizes how bad that is. So I really can't defend either of them here.

But I do like the darkness between these two characters and I love this story arc. It's promising, and I believe it will play out brilliantly with character development when this story is finished, for both characters.

[Serynarpc]

There was never a 'Chloe and Oliver', unfocused. The worst Chloe could do was give Oliver the data he'd asked for. Her clever hack - fu would never result in his life support to quit working. This isn't the Sebastian angle (which I'm glad that was brought up!)

'He simply did not want Chloe and Oliver to kill Lex, he's always felt that way. In canon and in Smallville. '

No, he hasn't. Rewind to three seconds after he realized he'd never be able to break through the pine floors that four generations of Kents have safely trod over, and the 'man of steel' was prepared to kill a defenseless, immobilized man. Until the Bionic Lana stopped him. Same Lana who in 'wrath' would have killed Lex herself.

That's all kinds of weird.

[unfocused]

Chloe was an accomplice to Lex's murder, she would be help responsible, in part, to his death, along with Oliver.

Let me rephrase what you quoted :) Clark simply did not want Chloe and Oliver to kill Lex. That's why he got into Chloe's face and ripped her one.

There you go. Simple aye? And it's true :)

Anyway. Chloe is a murderer, she deserves so much worse than the verbal buttkicking Clark gave to her. ;)

[actaeon]

And then we've got the Chloe/Oliver scenes which were VERY well-acted, but once again, we have Chloe being twisted and emotionally manipulated by another character who think they know everything. Oliver was trying to rationalize everything he was doing, and he blackmailed, cajoled, belittled, and otherwise shoved Chloe into following his every whim. Why are they making her into such a pushover lately?
<snip>
I just LOVE the character of Chloe -- she's always been portrayed as the most "human" and "lovably flawed" characters on the show.

I don't see that Ollie was emotionally twisting or manipulating her. He simply pointed out the fact that she can't condemn him for his plan to kill Lex when she outright killed Sebastian. He is arguing, basically, that they are at war, it's good vs. evil, the gloves are off, and her actions prove she knows he's right. It's a debatable issue, and what I saw in that scene was it being... debated! Not manipulation, not emotional blackmail.

I love the character of Chloe too. Always have. IA that she's human and she's flawed. Unfortunately, one of her current flaws is that, in her zeal to protect Clark, she has deliberately killed a man. (And no, I don't buy her half-hearted excuse that Brainiac made her do it)

I don't see that Chloe is anyone's punching bag. She follows her own course, she's strong-willed and independent. She's also supportive and, well... nice. If Clark sometimes hits her with accusations, and Ollie, well she hits back when necessary too.

[wolverine316]

I don't see how what Clark did was so bad...

He simply did not want Chloe and Oliver to kill Lex, he's always felt that way. In canon and in Smallville.

I think what hits people the most is how hard he shut her up. I mean, it took a lot for him to not kill her in Legion, and now here she is trying to murder, again, "for the greater good." And he called her out on that. He fought hard to save her life, to find another way other than murder. And here she is now, a murderer and an accomplice to another murder.

How would you guys feel about Chloe if Clark never found out about Oliver's and Chloe's plan to murder Lex Luthor, and those two ended up doing it anyway? The sad truth is, they actually did kill Lex (for the time being) and no one realizes how bad that is. So I really can't defend either of them here.

But I do like the darkness between these two characters and I love this story arc. It's promising, and I believe it will play out brilliantly with character development when this story is finished, for both characters.


Thank you. It is funny how people say they love the fact that Chloe is "flawed" but yet don't like it when she gets called out on it. What I love about this show is that everyone is incredibly flawed and each individual; Clark, Lana, Oliver, etc. don't get away with it and gets chewed out when it is needed including Chloe.

[unfocused]

That's true. People love to see Clark and Lana get chewed out for their mistakes. But when it comes to Chloe, not even murder would justify a good verbal buttkicking? That's just wrong.

[SGuthrie27]

*sigh* I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on elements of this. It just seems like some characters have a double-standard for how they treat the people around them and what they expect from each other. Clark has always been more than willing to let Lana slide for her indiscretions, except for a couple times, such as in "Wrath." He's always giving her the benefit of the doubt, whereas with Chloe, he often seems far to willing to give her an emotional spanking without always having all the facts.

Perhaps you're right that his conversation with her was called for in THIS episode, because Clark takes such a hard stance against killing 99% of the time (except when he's rushing off to get his revenge on Lex in this episode and in the other one that was mentioned by another poster). So sure, I'm okay with the fact that he was angry at her for siding with Oliver. But please note that she allied herself with Clark eventually and helped him find out where Lex was, rather than helping Oliver.

I don't really see how she's an accessory to murder after all. She said she'd help Oliver find the Toyman without telling Clark. Clark approached Chloe before she could really tell Oliver much of anything. The Toyman came to Oliver, not the other way around, and he told Oliver everything he needed to know about Lex because of that meeting -- with the Toyman instigated. Chloe's research into the Toyman did NOT cause the Toyman to come to Oliver, which was what let him know where Lex was in the first place, and was how he was able to eventually "kill" him (even though we all can safely know that he'll recover from this "death" as he has countless others).

The Sebastian Kane angle is a wholly different matter. And I've already given you my opinion on this. I don't believe Chloe is totally guilty, nor do I believe that she is completely innocent of that murder. She was obviously doing what she did to protect Clark, but if you listen to the tone of her voice, watch her facial expression, etc., you can tell that's TOTALLY not the way that Chloe talks or would approach that situation. Brainiac WAS influencing her to some degree, and I truly believe she wouldn't have gone that far if he hadn't been controlling her actions -- to some extent. However, I think she had at least partial control, or at least the motivation to do what she did because of her love for and desire to protect Clark. *shrug* It's a multi-faceted issue, to be certain.

And wolverine316 and unfocused, perhaps you didn't see my lenghty analysis on page four where I listed all the times that Clark has ripped Chloe and whether I thought they were called for. I think there HAVE been some times that she deserved to be called out on things that she's done that were wrong and I SAID that. There are just more times that she HAS been unfairly bashed by him and other characters that I am not okay with. Chloe tends to be an emotional doormat for other characters to wipe their feet on as of late, and I'm tired of it, which was the point of starting this thread.

And let's not bring up the whole "she's a horrible wife; why is she never visiting Jimmy" bit. After all, this is a show with a limited amount of minutes. Aaron Ashmore has only been contracted for a certain number of episodes, whereas Allison Mack HAS to appear in all 22. She has made mentions of her worry for his condition and how she's been going to see him in both "Legion" and "Bulletproof." It's not her fault that they didn't mention him at all in "Power" or "Requiem," when they had other things to worry about, like exploding Luthorcorp offices, huge kryptonite bombs, Lana kidnappings, and Lex on the loose. We can safely assume that she HAS been visiting him in Offscreenville. We know she loves him dearly, as it was given hardcore proof in "Committed" when she was hooked up to the shocking polygraph test.

Whew. Anyway, I hope all that made sense, and that my opinion is more fleshed out than it was. Still, thanks for the good discussion and talking points.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

I didn't read that post, sorry. Right now I don't care about how many times anyone has gotten chewed out, or if they even should have. Right now I think Chloe deserves some form of punishment for the things she's done.

The Sebastian murder, even if she was completely controlled by BrainIAC and didn't want to murder the guy, she still knew about it and didn't come forward with that information before. That makes her accountable for that murder. So either way you want to look at it, Chloe deserved what she got from Clark, and she deserves a whole lot worse.

She knew of Oliver's intentions of murder and who he was going to murder, and yet she kept it a secret and tried to aid him in finding this person. Chloe tried to help Oliver find the man that has information of the whereabouts of the man he was going to murder. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing while helping Oliver, and she attempted to keep it from Clark. Even though she didn't provide the information that lead to Lex's death, she still willingly aided Oliver in his mission to murder. Had Clark NOT chewed her out for that, she would have never came to her senses.

That's more than enough reason for the verbal buttkicking he gave Chloe. It was warranted, and the fact that Chloe shut her mouth and decided to help Clark proves that even she knew she was wrong for what she did.

I won't bring up the terrible wife issue right now. But I'm still concerned about it and I'm not forgetting about it just yet :)

[Billy Jor-El]

Chloe is the most real character on the show. Flawed? Ain't we all? Killer? I did love it when Oliver called her out on Sebastian. She claimed it was Brainiac, and, well, yes, Chloe alone could not have done what she did to him. But Ollie is right that she would do it to protect Clark at all costs; she knew what she was doing, and in her mind it was for the greater good. Let's be callous here...who would have gladly killed Mark Chapman to prevent him from killing John Lennon? What would you do to protect someone like John? What good did Chapman serve?

Chloe has been the most true and loyal confidant that Clark has ever known, whether he realizes it or not. Heck, did he think Lana came back to see him? It's apparent she was back to get the Prometheus skin, then go from there; she wasn't just about catching up with her ol' buds. She was keeping secrets from Clark. And Clark is upset because Chloe knew things about Lana, but was asked to keep them to herself? Gee, then Chloe's other friends should be upset that she's kept secrets from them regarding Kal-El. Clark is too quick to call her out, without looking to see the whole picture.

Sure, Chloe may have done some wrong things, but I still think she's the most redeeming quality of the show.....

[unfocused]

The difference between Superman and people that would kill to save John Lennon is that Superman would find another way to save John Lennon ;)

Taking a life to save a life. Where is the redeeming quality in that?

[SGuthrie27]

Well spoken, Billy Jor-el, especially in your second paragraph. That's the main thing that bugs me -- the double-standard element of it. Clark really wasn't at all rude to Lana for keeping her power-search and the events that happened after the Season 7 finale a secret from him, and yet he gave Chloe a verbal smackdown in "Power" when she didn't even know at that point that Lana had been kidnapped. The thing you said that sticks with me the most is when you said, "Clark is too quick to call her out, without looking to see the whole picture."

Mr. unfocused, you have some valid points as well. I don't believe that taking a life to save a life is a redeeming quality at all unless you absolutely have no other viable option -- if someone held one of your dearest friends at gunpoint and said you'd have to shoot them to save the one you cared about, what other choice would you have? Anyway, I know that wasn't exactly the scenario Chloe was in. What would've been nice is if she'd contacted Kevin -- the other memory thief -- from "Blank" and had him work his magic. But Chloe doesn't even remember he exists or that he helped Clark because of how that episode turned out. Sorry, that was kind of off-topic...

Anyway, I'm not ready to forget about the wife issue just yet either, unfocused, but that's an issue that I'm going to take up with the writers/producers, not the character of Chloe. Unless something is stated in "Infamous," "Turbulence," or "Hex" that displays that Chloe hasn't been attentive to her husband, then I'm going to believe that she's been by his side regularly in Offscreenville -- when she's not been busy helping Clark defuse crisis situations or earning her paycheck at the Isis Foundation.

That's okay that you didn't read my p. 4 analysis, though I still wish you would -- I'd like your take on whether or not you agree with some of the other times that Clark gave Chloe the verbal smackdown, regardless of how deserved this particular one was. Actually, I rewatched that scene from "Requiem" today, and I'm not quite as mad as I was at Clark before, except for the line that ran something to the effect of "I thought I could trust you, too." That was low. The rest of it was pretty well called for.

Still, it's the frequency of occasions on which Clark (and others) have gotten on Chloe's case that really gets on my last nerve, and that's something that won't change for me anytime soon.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Coyote]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would enjoy seeing Chloe killed and replaced with somebody hotter for season 9.

[unfocused]

I would hate myself if I was forced to take a life to save a friends. I would think very little of myself and I would never consider myself a hero. But I would live through all that, as long as my friend is alive.

I didn't agree with all of the times Clark chewed Chloe out. Prey comes to mind right off the bat. I didn't appreciate the way he demanded/stole the names of her clients. Although I also didn't agree with the way she handled her side of it either.

Btw, what episode does Aaron return in? And does anyone know if Erica will be in all the remaining eps this season? Geez I really miss those two.

[SGuthrie27]

Thanks for your reply, unfocused. Yeah, that would be extremely tough to deal with; it's not a situation I'd ever want to find myself in, to be certain -- probably one of the most ultimate in moral dilemmas.

Aaron returns as Jimmy in "Turbulence" (the episode directly after the next one), and thank goodness. He's a good character, and I'm anxious to see him get more screentime. Erica appears in "Infamous," "Hex," and "Stiletto," but not in "Eternal" or "Turbulence," argh! You'd that with as long as she's been gone she'd be around for the remainder of the season. I agree that those two really help to flesh out the show more.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Bizarrolover]

Clark and Chloe have this way to coming on each other when one of them doesn't like what the other did. It happened in the earlier seasons when Chloe made that pact with Lionel. Clark is usually very harsh at first, though he forgives her rather quickly. And when Chloe feels betrayed, she also comes pretty harshly, like she did in Prey.

Sebastian's murder is an entirely different thing. Some people say that Chloe was protecting Clark, but how was she so sure what kind of threat he represented? Just because the man said he knew 'enough' about Clark, then that justifies murdering him in cold blood? He did say to Chloe she didn't look dangerous, so what if he was just bluffing?

Like many others in this show, I think Chloe is loosing perspective on what is really wrong and right.

[unfocused]

Bizarrolover, you've reminded me of something important! Can I veer off topic for a minute here and ask a favor? I remember, once, someone saying Clark and Chloe had an amazing fight in the earlier seasons. I *think* it took place in the torch. From the impression I got from the poster, it must have been one heck of a fight. I think the poster might have even said it defined their relationship as the type where friends push each other, hard, when they need to be pushed hard. Or something to that effect. I am extremely curious, because it actually might be when this brother/sister/tough love relationship between these two began.

I was hoping someone knew which fight it was? If you do, please don't tell me what the fight was about, just tell me what episode it was. Please. Because I want to rewatch it.

[SGuthrie27]

I think it was in "Witness" (late Season 2). They had three (I think) major blow-outs in a single episode. I agree that the two of them tend to spur each other on to greatness many times. THey usually bring out the best in each other, and one of the things I like most about the Chloe character is how she won't put up with Clark's nonsense when she knows he's blinded to a certain truth, and she won't ever let him be less than he truly is destined to be. I don't know that she's losing perspective on what's right and wrong necessarily, Bizarrolover, but the writers are definitely painting her in a rather gray tone, and I can't say I like it.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Bizarrolover]

I think it was in "Witness" (late Season 2). They had three (I think) major blow-outs in a single episode. I agree that the two of them tend to spur each other on to greatness many times. THey usually bring out the best in each other, and one of the things I like most about the Chloe character is how she won't put up with Clark's nonsense when she knows he's blinded to a certain truth, and she won't ever let him be less than he truly is destined to be. I don't know that she's losing perspective on what's right and wrong necessarily, Bizarrolover, but the writers are definitely painting her in a rather gray tone, and I can't say I like it.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

Maybe I was a bit carried away, but by losing perspective I mean how murder is being taken so lightly in this show. I don't like how the characters, hiding behind the 'protecting Clark' or 'doing it for a greater good' shield, are justifying murdering a person. I know this is science fiction, but I take the law very seriously, and murder is murder, no matter what is the motivation.

For once, I would like the villains to be the villains and the heroes doing their jobs of taking those criminals to justice. So far, I haven't seen that on this show. The characters are becoming murderers and the villains end unpunished or locked up in mental institutions such as Belle Reve and released several years later. Maybe I'm naive, but I loved when Superman flew the criminals to the Police station, all tied up, to be judged. For once I would like to see this on this show.

[SGuthrie27]

Agreed, Bizarrolover. That would be the best case scenario. Considering the number of times Chloe has pulled Clark back from the brink of doing something rash, it seems tremendously out of character for her to do and say some of the things she's done and said in this season. I'm glad that Clark is drawing such a harsher line in the sand in his opinion on what's right and wrong, but it'd be nice if the writers weren't throwing some of our other favorite characters under the bus in terms of messing up their morality.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

Thanks so much, SGuthrie27. I really hope this is the episode. I'm about to watch it now.

[SGuthrie27]

You're welcome! It definitely doesn't paint Chloe in the best light -- in my mind, it was one of the lowest lows she's ever reached when she was in the depths of jealousy and was sick and tired of playing second fiddle to Lana in Clark's universe. I'm very grateful that she has matured so much since then. Enjoy watching the episode, and if I'm wrong on which one it was, let me know!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

P.S. They have had a fight in the Torch in several other episodes as well, namely "Zero" and "Lineage" (both fights about her digging into his adoption mystery) and "Rosetta" (when he unfairly bashed her for yelling at Lana after she looted through her personal computer files).

[Bizarrolover]

It's not witness, I checked it out. Some of Clark and Chloe's biggest fights happened in S3, after the lionel fiasco. Whisper comes to my mind. they also had a very nice conversation in S4, before she learned about his powers, when they agreed they would be friends and that Chloe would stop investigating Clark's life. I guess I'll have to rewatch those seasons!

[SGuthrie27]

Yeah, "Delete" was the big "I won't investigate you anymore" moment for Chlark. It's one of my all-time favorite Chloe scenes (and maybe one of my favorite scenes, period) on Smallville. Yeah, their big fights did come after he found out she was working for Lionel, but I don't think the majority of those happened in the Torch, which is why I thought that blowout was what unfocused was referring to.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

It's definitely not Witness. Just finished that episode and Clark and Chloe fight all throughout it. But none of the fights were real shouting matches. They were quick, and painless, lol. (Geez Chloe was so jealous, lol)

Ok, gonna watch Lineage and--- wait, I think it might be Whisper. Gonna check that one out right now, thanks Belen!

[unfocused]

Nope, not Whisper either :( I'm going to watch a couple more epsides and then ask in the answers thread.

[SGuthrie27]

Lineage and Zero are the only other times when I remember them actually FIGHTING in the Torch. Sorry that I was wrong on that first one... it was just the one episode where the fighting really stood out to me. Can you remember what they were fighting about? Being such a huge Chloe fanboy, I might be able to help you out a bit more if I have some context...

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

I've no clue what they were fighting about. I only vaguely remember someone mentioning the fight. They mentioned it a few weeks ago while we were having a discussion about how Clark and Chloe will have a huge argument about the Sebastian Kane deal and the memory wipe deal.

I remember it was during the earlier seasons, 4th season at the latest I think, but could be wrong. I also think he said the fight happened in the Torch. I also remember that when the poster mentioned the episode, I remembered the fight. But now that I can't even remember the episode... I can't remember the fight, lol.

Heck, they couldn't have had more than 10 huge fights. So it can't be impossible to find. I'll keep looking and let you know if I find anything.

[SGuthrie27]

Let's see... They also fought in "Drone" when she didn't endorse him for student body president. They also fought a couple of times (briefly) about Clark's inattention to her between "Crush" and "Obscura," but those weren't major -- really pretty silly little tiffs. "Lineage," to me, still contains probably their most important fight in the Torch. They may have bickered in "Dichotic" too, when Ian Randall was two-timing Chloe and Lana and they both just thought Clark was being jealous when he warned them about him. Of course they battled it out a bit in "Whisper" and "Delete," but I know that's not what you're referring to. Maybe it's "Truth" when she was getting people to fess up all their deepest secrets... She was pretty mad at Clark in "Transference" because of how he acted when Lionel had taken over his body, but I don't think that's what you're referring to. I think those are the only major fights that occurred at the Torch aside from those in "Witness." I remember there used to be transcripts of old Smallville episodes on the web somewhere, but I haven't been able to find them... Otherwise, I could just look up their old conversations that way.

Their post-Torch fights that I was able to find information on were in "Vengeance" in Season 5, when Chloe warned Clark about trying to get revenge on the guy who hurt his mother and stole his father's watch after Jonathan's death, and they had another argument about her keeping Lana & Lex's relationship a secret in "Fade" after badgering her about it a bit before in "Fragile." "Hydro" is when Clark and Chloe exchanged words about Lana's pregnancy. Of course, there was the next major argument about Clark's indecision with Lana in "Promise." They argued in "Cure" about whether or not she should go through with Dr. Curtis Knox's procedure. The last big fight I can find that's prior to Season 8 was in "Siren" about Chloe's working for Oliver.

That's far from encyclopedic, but again, I hope that might help you narrow down the particular scene you're looking for.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

Whoa, the fight in Lineage was awesome. Clark got kind of scary there. But it was really short, can't be it.

Hey, thanks a lot for the help. I'll keep looking.

[SGuthrie27]

No problem. Be sure to let me know if you find the episode you were really looking for -- I'm always in the mood to rewatch a good Chlark scene. :)

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[beresford_st]

yeah, she's definately become the dumping ground for the show. what a shame. ps3 needs to get their heads outta their ___'s. not just with the whole chloe thing.... just in general. ruining such a great show.

[SGuthrie27]

PS3 really do seem to be messing with our minds a lot lately, don't they, beresford_st? I hope they get a little "back to basics" soon and bring back the elements of characters that we fell in love with. It's okay to throw in some new elements and make things a bit different between characters, but they've been going too far lately, in my opinion, and I'm glad that I'm not the only one to think so.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[umm]

I have nothing against Chloe going a little 'offwhite' to phrase it like that, cos no one is good all the time, it just isn't possible or realistic!
Frankly, I find this newest Chloe and Oliver-storyline more realistic than Lana's!
Good people do bad things for a greater good, just like bad people can sometimes do good things for a greater good!
And let's be honest, while I don't advocate murder by any means, a person like Lex deserves everything coming to him, every bad thing!
The world isn't black or white, it is both in order to keep a delicate balance, yin and yang!
And the person, who views it like either white or black, is just setting oneselves up for a big dissappointment, followed by a bunch mistakes caused by unrealistic expectations!
At least with Chloe and Oliver you can see the inner conflicting strugle, where they know their actions may not have been pristine clean, but have ultimately served a greater good! Like it or not, sometimes one has to get their hands dirty in one form or another!
And this constant lecture Clark has been dishing out lately to alot of people, who what ever they have done, have done as their way of protecting him and standing by him, is slowly staring to come across as just plain ungrateful, egotistical and egocentrical! And the whole: 'Oh Lana finaly someone I can share my mission with, as well as private life', stick is simply ungrateful! I mean what the h...? What have Chloe, Oliver, John and numerous other helpers and heros been doing for him for the last eight years???? Shows some loyalty and gratitude!
And wake up and smell the reality, stop walking on some imaginary cloud, where you reign in a coustle with Lana by your side!

[Bizarrolover]

I agree that things are not always black and white, but this show has turned into a huge grey blur. Sometimes, the message they convey is even contradictory. Because in Bride we have Oliver saying that maybe they all should be more like Clark and 4 episodes later he blows a truck with Lex in it. Chloe preeches about not killing and in the same episode admits killing someone. Lana tells Tess that she's an amazing woman after she kicked a man's brain out of its skull. Clark says that killing is not an option then runs after Lex in a fit of rage. For once, I would like heroes acting like heroes and villains going to jail. I noticed that criminals in this show are never convicted and the supposed heroes never take said villains to the authorities to be prosecuted. Heroes feel entitled to steal and kill if they think they are doing it for a greater good. My issue is, what if they are wrong? Where is the line that separates a greater from a lesser good?

It's like that guy Turpin said in Bulletproof. Cops have rules, capes don't. I think that the 'capes' of this show should act more like heroes and actually assist justice and not just twist and bend justice to accomodate to their own concept of what is right and wrong.

[Darth Pipes]

I felt like throwing up after Clark once again attacked Chloe about trust. Chloe, someone who has protected Clark's secret as fiercly as his own parents. Who the hell is Clark to talk about trust? This is the same man who basically mind-raped Chloe and didn't have to guts to admit to it. I'm disgusted that the writers refuse to hold Clark accountable for this.

I'm also tired of them making Chloe a punching bag. It's time she finally put Clark in his place once and for all.

[SGuthrie27]

Totally agreed on that front, Darth Pipes. Thanks for putting that so succinctly.

Bizarrolover, you have great points, too. I would love for them to be making the lines between good and evil even clearer as time progresses, not blurring them and shifting more into the gray area. You've given me some good things to think about.

And "umm," even though I don't agree with EVERY aspect of your post, I do agree that Clark needs to start showing the same level of loyalty and gratitude to his friends that they've showed to him in the past, especially someone as loyal to him as his ultimate secret-keeper, Chloe.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Serynarpc]

I'm starting to believe if Clark showed Chloe a fraction of the frenzied attention he shows Lana, he may have wondered what the hell happened to Sebastien. I understand that Chloe wouldn't offer to to oh -operate a Google search for him - but he may realize something was a little off. While he may buy Chloe's denial that it was brainiac, he should at least become aware that something is off about a disappearance around Brainiac. Of course, he hasn't seemed to notice that the person who Chloe- brainiac ran to when she was melting down has gone missing as well (Davis).

Clark could fill a book with what he doesn't know about Chloe lately and that's a disturbing turn. Once upon a time, they were each others confidantes. Now Clark takes liberties with Chloe's memories and yells at her for not being a saint (when technically, she didn't lie to Clark, Lana did and Lana put Chloe in the position of lying to Clark by omission. If anything, Lana deserved the burn for not knowing about the visit. )
Where are we going next episode? Yelling at Chloe for defending her cousin when she's leaving her husband's side to help Clark out? I'd love to see Clark told to operate his own Google while she heads for Jimmy's hospital room for the rest of the episode.

She doesn't *have* to be Clark's right arm, technically its not *her* destiny. She's a volunteer who catches Lana's tears, Oliver's mind bend trips and Clark's venom. Sooner or later, things aren't going to end well.

Wow, this veered off a bit. Sorry for that. I'm in the "Chloe's not a saint and she's done wrong (ahem, Sebastien) - but Clark still shouldn't act as though she's perfect. Sooner or later, these two need to realize that they are both flawed people who need to pull each other out of the fire. The song 'halo' applies to Chloe and Clark on so many levels.

[unfocused]

I think Clark's actions in Legion were enough to prove his loyalty to Chloe. And I think the fact that he still allows her to do the most minor detective work for him proves he still trusts her.

Speaking of which, I am loving how Clark is growing out of his dependence for Chloe, because that made them both look bad.

[DontCha]

If Chloe is a newlywed who's husband is laying up in a hospital due to injuries sustained from a indestructible monster, WHY the HELL is she parading in Metropolis and not with her husband?
Did I miss something?

IMO, the brainiac take over has changed her, She may have been saved but she's not the same chloe she was before she was possessed. Things as major as that can really make characters see and feel things differently when they come out of them.

[Dominicus]

I agree that things are not always black and white, but this show has turned into a huge grey blur. Sometimes, the message they convey is even contradictory. Because in Bride we have Oliver saying that maybe they all should be more like Clark and 4 episodes later he blows a truck with Lex in it. Chloe preeches about not killing and in the same episode admits killing someone. Lana tells Tess that she's an amazing woman after she kicked a man's brain out of its skull. Clark says that killing is not an option then runs after Lex in a fit of rage. For once, I would like heroes acting like heroes and villains going to jail. I noticed that criminals in this show are never convicted and the supposed heroes never take said villains to the authorities to be prosecuted. Heroes feel entitled to steal and kill if they think they are doing it for a greater good. My issue is, what if they are wrong? Where is the line that separates a greater from a lesser good?

It's like that guy Turpin said in Bulletproof. Cops have rules, capes don't. I think that the 'capes' of this show should act more like heroes and actually assist justice and not just twist and bend justice to accomodate to their own concept of what is right and wrong.Amen to that! That's something I also found to be a disturbing trend. Worse that happens they get sent to BelleReeve or Black Creek, which are like institutions. Heroes bring people to justice not execute their own warp plan of punishment that makes them no better then the people they call villians, do as I say do type of demigod behavior. There has to be a clear contrast, and I'm not even seeing that with Clark. The only ones that seem pure are Lois, Martha, and Jimmy, and Jimmy's iffy because he's done questionable things.

[umm]

I agree that things are not always black and white, but this show has turned into a huge grey blur. Sometimes, the message they convey is even contradictory. Because in Bride we have Oliver saying that maybe they all should be more like Clark and 4 episodes later he blows a truck with Lex in it. Chloe preeches about not killing and in the same episode admits killing someone. Lana tells Tess that she's an amazing woman after she kicked a man's brain out of its skull. Clark says that killing is not an option then runs after Lex in a fit of rage. For once, I would like heroes acting like heroes and villains going to jail. I noticed that criminals in this show are never convicted and the supposed heroes never take said villains to the authorities to be prosecuted. Heroes feel entitled to steal and kill if they think they are doing it for a greater good. My issue is, what if they are wrong? Where is the line that separates a greater from a lesser good?
It's like that guy Turpin said in Bulletproof. Cops have rules, capes don't. I think that the 'capes' of this show should act more like heroes and actually assist justice and not just twist and bend justice to accomodate to their own concept of what is right and wrong.

I am not saying, people shouldn't be held accountable, they should, but the punishment should fit the crime and the extended circumstances, and people in glasshouses shouldn't through with stones!
Take Clark for example, he has no right preaching to Oliver about wanting to kill Lex (or Lionel for that matter), when he himself was about to kill Lex if Lana hadn't stopped him! He has no right preaching to Chloe about keeping other peoples secrets from him (secrets she recieved in the strictest confidance by the way), when he has done the same thin time and time again, even worse actually if you take his mindwrape of his so-claimed best friend in to account!
He needs to step off his preachers pulpet and for once in his life try to see things from other peoples perspective! This selfrighteous indignant 'I am always right' attitude he has developed this season is realy annoying to no end, and no where near the herolike behaviour he should be having instead!!!!!

[Darth Pipes]

Totally agreed on that front, Darth Pipes. Thanks for putting that so succinctly.

Bizarrolover, you have great points, too. I would love for them to be making the lines between good and evil even clearer as time progresses, not blurring them and shifting more into the gray area. You've given me some good things to think about.

And "umm," even though I don't agree with EVERY aspect of your post, I do agree that Clark needs to start showing the same level of loyalty and gratitude to his friends that they've showed to him in the past, especially someone as loyal to him as his ultimate secret-keeper, Chloe.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

Clark demands total loyalty and trust yet he won't return it. Especially if his precious secret is threatened in any way.

I also find it funny he read Chloe the riot act about how killing is bad but when Lana tried to kill Lex, he blamed her powers instead of blaming her. Once again, the Boy of Steel refuses to see Lana's flaws.

[Serynarpc]

Clark demands total loyalty and trust yet he won't return it. Especially if his precious secret is threatened in any way.

I also find it funny he read Chloe the riot act about how killing is bad but when Lana tried to kill Lex, he blamed her powers instead of blaming her. Once again, the Boy of Steel refuses to see Lana's flaws.

Excellent point. Its a valid instance of yet again how Lana is excused from reasonable human accountability.

[devilneedsaride]

Chloe is a joke now.....and if Allison Mack ends up getting sterotyped.....she's earned it unfornately. I've lost a lot of respect for her......don't give a crap whether she has control of the show or not.....she knew where this show has been heading....she's not stupid...she's obviously quite intelligent......and if she's gonna enjoy the glory moments of Smallville (which she definitely has).....she's got to accept the bad as well.......and I'll repeat it one last time......talented or not......I have no respect for Allison Mack as an actress anymore. Directing abilities however.....now that's quite another story.....too bad her directorial debut involved directing such a crap piece of writting.

Out of curiosity, do you dislike AM because you think she portrayed Chloe badly or did badly in her job as an actress, or are you upset with her for not doing more to change/influence/stop the recent changes to Chloe's character that you don't like? I respect your opinion, just looking for clarification :P

[SGuthrie27]

Yeah, I'm curious as to how CK&CK came to that conclusion as well. And yes, Clark definitely seems to have a double standard -- he puts Lana on a pedestal on one side and makes unrealistic excuses for any deviant behavior she displays, and everyone else is on the other side of things, the one where he can chew them out for anything if he deems it necessary, even if he's guilty of doing whatever it is he's mad about himself.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Lazy Boy]

^^
That is a good point. While it's very oblivious on the screen but I never thought about that until you pointed that out. Talk about being hit in the face with a pan full of something you do see but don't realised.


I also find it funny he read Chloe the riot act about how killing is bad but when Lana tried to kill Lex, he blamed her powers instead of blaming her. Once again, the Boy of Steel refuses to see Lana's flaws.

Yep, yep and yep.


Speaking of which, I am loving how Clark is growing out of his dependence for Chloe, because that made them both look bad.


I disagree to the point it made them look bad but yes Clark does have to move away from being reliant on other people to do his scooby doobying.
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[gem65]

^^ I saw Chloe's additude towards Clark had finally changed in Prey. She finally stood up against his stupid accusations. I hope we see more of that Chloe in the future. It's not about being right or wrong. It's about how he treats people like he owns them or something.

I remember in "Hydro" that Chloe told Clark off when he accused her of not telling him about Lana being "pregnant".

[SGuthrie27]

Yeah, it's nice that she stands up for herself from time to time; she's earned the right to do that for all the times that she's stood up for, protected, and otherwise been a lifesaver for Clark.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

P.S. I can see the point about Chloe and Clark needing to grow apart a little bit -- it's only natural for Clark to become less reliant on others as he's becoming a more competent hero, and besides, Chloe needs to be able to spend more time with her husband and at the Isis Foundation, even though Chlark scenes are what I always look forward to most on the show.

[unfocused]

Chloe deserved every word from that verbal beating Clark gave her. Lana should have taken a few of those beatings as well, but that doesn't change the fact that Chloe got what she deserved and she got it good. It's great that she stands up for herself, but it's even better that she knows when to shut up and hand over the information :mad:

[umm]

Chloe deserved every word from that verbal beating Clark gave her. Lana should have taken a few of those beatings as well, but that doesn't change the fact that Chloe got what she deserved and she got it good. It's great that she stands up for herself, but it's even better that she knows when to shut up and hand over the information :mad:

Are you saying that because you actually think her latest actions were ethicly and moraly wrong and she therefore needs to experience some consequences in form of a stern and totaly 'double standardish' talking to, she got from Clark, or because you simply dodn't like the character and the actress, in whích case you aren't objective and don't have a leg to stand on!!!:)

[SGuthrie27]

LOL, I kind of had wondered that 4-5 pages ago on this post myself. Unfocused has a point that Chloe may have deserved a lecture about not giving the information about Winslow Schott considering what Oliver was attempting to do. What she did NOT observe was that jab of, "I thought I could trust you, too," or something like that. Considering how long she's kept his secret and those of others, I think he'd be beyond petty, low remarks like that, or the accusations he made in "Power," which were even more ridiculous. I'm looking at what's been happening to Chloe as a pattern, not as a single moment.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[Serynarpc]

Chloe deserved every word from that verbal beating Clark gave her. Lana should have taken a few of those beatings as well, but that doesn't change the fact that Chloe got what she deserved and she got it good. It's great that she stands up for herself, but it's even better that she knows when to shut up and hand over the information :mad:

Chloe isn't employed by Clark, therefore she doesn't have to submit her 'work' with a smile and ignore abuse humped her way. A friendship has give and take- and understanding that fair play is a two way street. Chloe's done some wrong things (Sebastien, resisting telling Clark about Oliver's plan) but so has Clark (Mindlessly defending Lana while chewing out Chloe for the same thing- see Wrath when Lana almost killed Lex. See Requiem when Clark chewed Chloe out (not for killing Sebastien, which would make this 'righteous' ) but for defending the ideal that Clark might be better off if Lex were dead. In Wrath, Clark was on the defensive from Lana about defending why all he did was 'stay on the farm'. In Requiem, Clark's aggressively on Chloe's case for defending Lana's visit (When Lana should have told Clark as its thier relationship, not Chloe & Clark's) and for Lex situation.

[unfocused]

Obviously, people missed that I was joking :)

So to be serious, Chloe deserved everything Clark gave her, and she deserves so much worse. Like I said, the double standard here is appalling. Lana deserves to die because she makes Clark a wimp, but Chloe doesn't even deserve a lecture after cold blooded, premeditated murder. Nevermind that Clark doesn't yet know about the murder.

Sure, Clark has done some bad things, so has Lana. So has many other people that have come and gone. And they all deserve something for it. And I may talk about that in a thread created for them. But this thread is about Chloe. And Chloe deserves something worse than just a mere lecture.

Oh and I'm a big fan of Allison and Chloe. I'm just not going to let it show on this board ;)

[SGuthrie27]

LOL, I never know what to believe from your posts, unfocused (referring to the last line). :) I am certainly not saying Lana (or anyone else for that matter) deserves to die for the wimpifying of the future Superman, nor did I say Chloe doesn't deserve a lecture for what happened to Sebastian, even though the lecture hasn't even happened yet for that, since Clark doesn't know about it. I'm certainly not showing a double-standard. I've called Chloe on her teenagerish jealousy she showed in some of her catty fights with Clark and Lana in Season 2, but she has largely matured since then into a smart, usually wise young woman who has fiercely defended Clark's secret and kept his trust for the last four years of her life, many times at severe risk to her own. Like I said, I have more of a problem with the fact that Chloe's getting continually hammered for being "untrustworthy" by Clark and for keeping other people's secrets when all along she's been true to Clark's own secrets.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

Oh I'm not talking about you, Sir SGuthrie27. You're always great and have honest opinions. But it's no secret that many people love to hate particular characters around here. A little more than necessary, in my opinion :)

[SGuthrie27]

Oh! Well, thank you very much, Mr. Unfocused. :) Yeah, that's true, there are some serious haters on the board who have complete blinders when it comes to certain characters and who can't find a single good thing about other ones. Good point indeed.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[luthorian]

I remember in "Hydro" that Chloe told Clark off when he accused her of not telling him about Lana being "pregnant".

Wow I forgot he actually did something that stupid.

[SV'S_immortal_hero]

Chloe has been the most true and loyal confidant that Clark has ever known, whether he realizes it or not

well isnt this a big slap in the face to the kents the 1's that raised clark!

[Billy Jor-El]

Outside of his immediate family....I didn't mean to discredit the influence of Ma & Pa Kent!

[SGuthrie27]

That's what I thought you meant. :) Definitely outside of family, Chloe has always been the truest FRIEND that Clark could ever hope for.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[CK&CK]

Originally Posted by CK&CK
Chloe is a joke now.....and if Allison Mack ends up getting sterotyped.....she's earned it unfornately. I've lost a lot of respect for her......don't give a crap whether she has control of the show or not.....she knew where this show has been heading....she's not stupid...she's obviously quite intelligent......and if she's gonna enjoy the glory moments of Smallville (which she definitely has).....she's got to accept the bad as well.......and I'll repeat it one last time......talented or not......I have no respect for Allison Mack as an actress anymore. Directing abilities however.....now that's quite another story.....too bad her directorial debut involved directing such a crap piece of writting.


Well said :)


I would say thank you....except that having read a lot of your posts regarding this particular character.....I am fairly sure that we are coming at this from different perspectives.

----- Added 11 Minutes later -----


Out of curiosity, do you dislike AM because you think she portrayed Chloe badly or did badly in her job as an actress, or are you upset with her for not doing more to change/influence/stop the recent changes to Chloe's character that you don't like? I respect your opinion, just looking for clarification :P

I always thought Allison's acting was top notch.....and when the writting started deteriorating a few seasons ago......I didn't blame her much.....once an actor is signed on to a season....it's her job to finish it as best she can.......but she's known for a while where this show has been heading......to make matters worse.....she sugar coats it in her interviews....like it's the most fantastic thing in the world where these characters are heading......so I kind of lost respect for her.....much like I lost respect for Tom Welling...........and I have to wonder (and I never thought I'd be saying this).....is she now doing it more for the paycheck?......Cause I don't believe she really fights for what her fans want......not anymore.......if she ever did in fact.

[miks]

I don't really blame Allison. I don't think she's had much say in what's been going on. I think she only stuck around to please her fans. Allison used to love the way Chloe was written; determined, hard working, feisty. I think now she just wants her fans to be happy and is only sticking around for us. I could be wrong, but her interviews don't really seem like they used to. She used to be so excited for everything now it's just oh yeah Davis and I blah blah blah. So IMO she's just sticking it out until the end for her fans. Which I'm fine with, sort of. This fan would rather her leave so I can leave this crap behind. I guess she just thinks fans want her to stay; which we all did at first! I remember the outcry when there was a slight chance she wasn't coming back. But seeing how this season has turned out so far, we are now wishing she left.

[unfocused]

I would say thank you....except that having read a lot of your posts regarding this particular character.....I am fairly sure that we are coming at this from different perspectives.

Lol then don't appreciate my compliment :)

[CK&CK]

Lol then don't appreciate my compliment :)


Respectfully.........I don't.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----


I don't really blame Allison. I don't think she's had much say in what's been going on. I think she only stuck around to please her fans. Allison used to love the way Chloe was written; determined, hard working, feisty. I think now she just wants her fans to be happy and is only sticking around for us. I could be wrong, but her interviews don't really seem like they used to. She used to be so excited for everything now it's just oh yeah Davis and I blah blah blah. So IMO she's just sticking it out until the end for her fans. Which I'm fine with, sort of. This fan would rather her leave so I can leave this crap behind. I guess she just thinks fans want her to stay; which we all did at first! I remember the outcry when there was a slight chance she wasn't coming back. But seeing how this season has turned out so far, we are now wishing she left.


Allison's really savy about this business........if she really cared about the fans.....I'd think we would have heard more about her pushing or standing up for her character.....especially with the character assasinations that have gone on.....all in the name of Lana Fu.....but honestly.....I think she's looking at a paycheck....as well as the opportunity to show case her directing talents...so she probably doesn't want to rock the boat........she's looking ahead.....down the road so to speak......at least that's what I believe........in some ways I can't blame her.....but in speaking as a fan (although "former" fan might be more applicable now.....maybe)........I'm quite dissapointed with her.

[RedKRules]

I don't really blame Allison. I don't think she's had much say in what's been going on. I think she only stuck around to please her fans. Allison used to love the way Chloe was written; determined, hard working, feisty. I think now she just wants her fans to be happy and is only sticking around for us. I could be wrong, but her interviews don't really seem like they used to. She used to be so excited for everything now it's just oh yeah Davis and I blah blah blah. So IMO she's just sticking it out until the end for her fans. Which I'm fine with, sort of. This fan would rather her leave so I can leave this crap behind. I guess she just thinks fans want her to stay; which we all did at first! I remember the outcry when there was a slight chance she wasn't coming back. But seeing how this season has turned out so far, we are now wishing she left.

I agree, I don´t think we can really blame her, since maybe she didn´t really know what was coming for her character this season, but things got bad for Chloe after S6, but there is not much I can say there, since maybe because of the budget ..... SV couldn´t afford more sets, which would explain why they never ever showed the University again...

I really wish they just could Chloe be who she really is ...... these lightswitches for her character is not working at all..... yeah I have wished she hadn´t come back .... because I just can´t watch my fav character get crapped on like that over and over again.

[BadaBingBadaBoomsday]

I'll repeat it one last time......talented or not......I have no respect for Allison Mack as an actress anymore.

What!!!

[unfocused]

Allison directed only one episode, and it was driven by it's writing. She's not a very good director, so I doubt she wants to gain much attention for that. Allison is all about her fans, she is very active in that community. It's hardly about money for her. Like any other actress or actor, she wants to make it far in the business, but she does love her fans more. And the fact that she stayed on board, knowing her character was going to go through dark times, says volumes of what she would go through for us.

[CK&CK]

What!!!

Just so there is no misunderstanding.......I am not referring to her acting skills......Gold Material or Crap Material not withstanding......her top notch acting ability is pretty much a constant.......and her directing skills appear to be excellent in my opinion.....especially given it was her first on this show...and given that the writting was beyond crap.......although, I will admit that I pretty much fast forwarded through most of the Lana scenes (except the intro.....and maybe one or 2 others). But at this point, Allison could very well go on to do good work in the industry.....and I would certainly watch her endevors......but if by chance, she were to disappear from the industry........I don't think I would notice.....or care at this point.

[SVrnFAN]

Respectfully.........I don't.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----




Allison's really savy about this business........if she really cared about the fans.....I'd think we would have heard more about her pushing or standing up for her character.....especially with the character assasinations that have gone on.....all in the name of Lana Fu.....but honestly.....I think she's looking at a paycheck....as well as the opportunity to show case her directing talents...so she probably doesn't want to rock the boat........she's looking ahead.....down the road so to speak......at least that's what I believe........in some ways I can't blame her.....but in speaking as a fan (although "former" fan might be more applicable now.....maybe)........I'm quite dissapointed with her.

As a big AM fan, does she not have a right to be looking at just a paycheck (if that is what she is doing). I work a job that is not favored by a lot of people. In actuality, we are detested in a lot of ways. If one of those people came up to me and said that they were disappointed in me for still being at my job, I would be shocked. It is AM's choice in what she does for a living - do we really have a right to criticize. Especially in these days of economic turmoil.

[Smallville6]

I think Clark is more mistreated and emotionally dumped on then Chloe.

[SGuthrie27]

At times he has been, true, especially in some of the earliest seasons. You make a good point on that front. It just seems like lately, as Clark has become more sure of himself, he's also become just the teeniest bit (and sometimes more) self-righteous, especially in his relationship with Chloe. He holds her to an extremely high standard that he himself does not always meet, in my opinion (though with the direction PS3 is taking her this season, I don't know what's going to happen in that regard). :(

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[LuthorKent90]

I think Clark is more mistreated and emotionally dumped on then Chloe.

Clark mistreated? He's ALWAYS treated his friends like dirt and took them for granted.
(Except when he is saving their lives.. which shows Clark is a good guy, but he needs to treat his friend better.)
He is always accusing them of something. And when he finds something out goes into "why didn't you tell me" crazy mode.
But when they ask something about him, he gets defensive.

[AgentChaos]

Clark mistreated? He's ALWAYS treated his friends like dirt and took them for granted.
(Except when he is saving their lives.. which shows Clark is a good guy, but he needs to treat his friend better.)
He is always accusing them of something. And when he finds something out goes into "why didn't you tell me" crazy mode.
But when they ask something about him, he gets defensive.

QFT. I can understand why Clark doesn't tell everyone he is an intergalactic traveler, but his need to know what everyone else's deep, dark secrets are makes him a bit of a hypocrite. Chloe was dead on when she told him in Hydro that he had no right to demand total honesty from her about things Lana told her in confidence when she keeps his secret every moment of every day.

[SGuthrie27]

Exactly -- you both are quite right. Well-spoken, LK90 and AC.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[unfocused]

I'll agree that Chloe gets mistreated more than Clark. But I enjoy that so I'm happy :rolleyes:

[mr lane]

i have to agree that chloe's character gets thrown around but in all honesty i think thats the only reason shes on the show

All of the other characters are big characters who need someone to throw all their hypocrtical crap on and thats where Chloe comes into play

weve seen that the way they have written Lana, Clark is going to get more crap from her than give therefore he needs someone else to let loose his god complex on.

the way theyve written ollie he needs a reason to justify all the crazy stuff hes doing so therefore he takes it out on chloe and brings all of her injustice to the light.

Lana...well theres a lot to be said there but she has the same reasons as Oliver but goes about it a different way by using guilt.

[tj_powers]

Chloe's character is becoming much darker as the seasons go on. Although she is still pro Clark, her methods are becoming more and more devilish in a way of speaking. I wouldn't be so surprised if she didnt completely turn a different leaf by this end of season or by season 9 if TPTB decides to move along with one

[SGuthrie27]

YAY! An agreement from unfocused!!! Even if you enjoy watching it, thanks for actually agreeing on THAT part of the conversation, LOL. :-D

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[LuthorKent90]

Exactly -- you both are quite right. Well-spoken, LK90 and AC.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--


:D Thanks.

[SGuthrie27]

Well, thank YOU again, LK90, for being a fellow defender of Chloe Sullivan!

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[tj_powers]

so i guess u dont like me all too much for saying shes getting darker lol

[unfocused]

See, the problem with these "defenders" is that they can't appreciate a good story because they feel the need to paint Chloe is some ridiculous angelic light. There is nothing wrong with a character going through a dark phase. In fact, it's great character development and storytelling, and some of these characters do come out the end of the tunnel in a better light. Lex is the exception, but Chloe will most likely come out of this a better person. So will Oliver.

So, despite all of the whining over the murders, these people are letting a great story pass them by. And seriously, do you want your favorite character to be repetitively the same (which in my opinion is way too mary sue) or do you want your character to grow and become better? As far as I'm concerned, Chloe can continue to be the second choice, the backup plan, the girl behind the curtain, the almost great but not quite there. But I'd think her fans would want her to have some depth, a sense of development, and not continue to be a walking plot device whose sole purpose is to make other characters look bad while making her look so good.

This is actually similar to one of my Superman arguments. In which people love to complain how Clark makes mistakes. That's perfectly OK that people complain about the stupid choices he makes, but they fail to grasp the real point of the mistakes concerning his development. That Superman must make mistakes if we expect him to become so morally great, to basically become the iconic hero we know.

[Lazy Boy]

See, the problem with these "defenders" is that they can't appreciate a good story because they feel the need to paint Chloe is some ridiculous angelic light. There is nothing wrong with a character going through a dark phase. In fact, it's great character development and storytelling, and some of these characters do come out the end of the tunnel in a better light. Lex is the exception, but Chloe will most likely come out of this a better person. So will Oliver.


That's a pretty unfair thing to say that we don't appreciate a good story when we defend a character. What we don't like is when they put Chloe into a dark phase without any prior explanation which is why I find the whole Sebastian thing very confusing.

If the writers want to put Chloe through a dark phase, fine but do a better job of it. Don't just lightswitch her in and out just like that, it's confusing and serves the story no purpose.

[unfocused]

Whether you like the story or not isn't relative, since there are many of us enjoying it. Unless your dislike for this story stems from your defensive tendencies for Chloe, in that case, you'd be proving me right :)

[tj_powers]

amen unfocused!! wherever the story goes ill watch smallville to the end!

[Lazy Boy]

Whether you like the story or not isn't relative, since there are many of us enjoying it. Unless your dislike for this story stems from your defensive tendencies for Chloe, in that case, you'd be proving me right :)

Proving you right? I'm gonna let this fella answer that one for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY&feature=related

[tj_powers]

I agree with unfocused. no matter what happens will be relevant to the story and I think Chloe's character has taken a turn for the cryptic this season. but everyone has their opinion of her...

[unfocused]

Proving you right? I'm gonna let this fella answer that one for me: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY&feature=related

Youtube isn't working for me right now. But I'll check the link if I remember later. Probably not though.

[tj_powers]

lol its just a scrubs moment people will easily forget as the show is the same lol

[oqllcksmallville]

shes just being a good friend .
telling the show to stop making chloe listen to peoples problems ,
is not right at all .
that means she stops being a good friend ,
becuase part of being one is listening and giving advice .

[SGuthrie27]

I agree that she's being a good friend, oqllckssmallville (cool avatar, by the way), and I don't think she shouldn't listen to people's problems. I just mean that she shouldn't have to get lectured and chewed out by people all the time, especially for keeping others' secrets, which I've always felt as hypocritical bashing, especially coming from Clark, even if there have been one or two recent exceptions when she should have let him in on what she'd learned.

--SGuthrie ><>' :)--

[tj_powers]

well its kinda hard for chloe to be everyones best friend when she has her own personal issues going on since the beginning of season 9... the infections... the memory loss... the wedding... kidnapping... all in a day's work for being Kal-El gal pal !?