Calm, Respectful Analysis of Requiem (Join us after you have already ranted :)

[stenochick]

After you have had time to process the Clana and anything else that made you want to rip your hair out, and you still want to chat, or if you loved the episode from the start, please feel free to join the discussion here. :)

[tbird4u]

lol this is a good idea!!

[nic25]

haha i love the idea too!

[stenochick]

People seemed to appreciate the thread I made for Power, so I made one again for Requiem.

[skugers]

love this idea. make love, not war!
LOL

[Routh]

I guess I won't be visiting this thread again anytime soon, then. :P

[Kreukie]

I guess I won't be visiting this thread again anytime soon, then. :P

Thank you for letting us know.

[melissan02]

Humm...."Join us after you have ranted"......well, depending on how tonight goes, that might be a few weeks!!!!!!!!!!!:p:lol:

[Routh]

Thank you for letting us know.

You are welcome. :)

[stenochick]

Humm...."Join us after you have ranted"......well, depending on how tonight goes, that might be a few weeks!!!!!!!!!!!:p:lol:

:lol:

I may be banned from my own thread!

Nah. I have faith in PS3. This is going to be an incredible ride from Requiem to the season finale!!

----- Added 1 Minutes later -----


I guess I won't be visiting this thread again anytime soon, then. :P

:p

Keep spreading the sunshine, Graham!

[Bre723]

In my opinion of how we should view this episode is with an open mind.
I think we should cast aside all of our expectations and thinking that it will be terrible thought and maybe actually enjoy the episode.
And hey if you don't like Lana, this is her last episode, so rejoice :).
If your a fan, than sit back relax and enjoy Lana while we have her.
I hope everyone enjoys this episode, and if not, there is always "Infamous" coming up next which everyone seems to be pretty excited for.
Happy Smallville Thursday everyone.

[melissan02]

:lol:

I may be banned from my own thread!

Nah. I have faith in PS3. This is going to be an incredible ride from Requiem to the season finale!!



:lol:

Let's hope it's a SEASON finale we get at the end and not a SERIES finale....of course, for me, having a S9 also depends on how tonight's episode plays out.:lol:

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


In my opinion of how we should view this episode is with an open mind.
I think we should cast aside all of our expectations and thinking that it will be terrible thought and maybe actually enjoy the episode.
And hey if you don't like Lana, this is her last episode, so rejoice :).
If your a fan, than sit back relax and enjoy Lana while we have her.
I hope everyone enjoys this episode, and if not, there is always "Infamous" coming up next which everyone seems to be pretty excited for.
Happy Smallville Thursday everyone.

Well put Bre:)...and I agree...we have to see how this all plays out, and then we all have to play nice together!:lol:
I have to be honest though, this arc hasn't gone the way I had hoped, but what I am rejoicing is that it's Lana's last. Hope you enjoy this episode though.:)

[Rift]

Nice idea--but where is my specific "Rant " thread so I can vent and then come in here? ;)

[melissan02]

Nice idea--but where is my specific "Rant " thread so I can vent and then come in here? ;)

Yeah, I've been looking for that one all day!:p

[marcella]

Great idea:)

[stenochick]

Nice idea--but where is my specific "Rant " thread so I can vent and then come in here? ;)

I usually just rant in the "Loved it, Hated it..." thread and then I watch the episode a second time on my Tivo and post again either with more indignation or I say, "you know, it really wasn't all that bad..." :)

[Tompouce]

:lol:

Nah. I have faith in PS3. This is going to be an incredible ride from Requiem to the season finale!!


Exactly. I am confident too (but to be honest, a little bit scared lol):p

[ClarkyBoy14]

People seemed to appreciate the thread I made for Power, so I made one again for Requiem.

Good idea! :)

[Cogito17]

The negativity already surrounding this episode is appalling.

Even a thread attempting objectivity such as this can't be made without the presupposition that people are going to need to "rant" and "rip their hair out".

This episode stands about as much of a chance for a good reception as Lana did when she returned this season... which is to say fairly slim (IMO).

[sarcami]

I am listening to The Miseducation of Lauryn Hill to calm my nerves. Maybe I should send both Clark and Lana a copy each.

Clark- The Exfactor

Lana- The Final Hour

Here's to Requiem. See you guys later

[stenochick]

The negativity already surrounding this episode is appalling.

Even a thread attempting objectivity such as this can't be made without the presupposition that people are going to need to "rant" and "rip their hair out".

This episode stands about as much of a chance for a good reception as Lana did when she returned this season... which is to say fairly slim (IMO).

Oh, I was just trying to be funny based on last week's response. But, you're right, even that is pretty negative and sarcastic.

I just didn't want it to devolve into all the shippers going at it and people posting that they rated it a "1" just because of Clana and not discuss other elements of the episode.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's okay to come in here and post why you hated it. This is not the politically correct thread, just the thread where you can think about the episode in more detail after getting over any disappointment you may have had with it.

Every episode needs it, not just the Lana episodes. I only thought to create during the Power discussion.

[Cogito17]

Nah, I understand what you were doing. It's just indicative of the general attitude around here... many people have already condemned this episode before its even aired.

[REebee52]

Say what you want about Clana, and this method of getting her to separate from Clark: that last scene was pretty moving. I'm no Clana shipper/hater, and I thought the meteor rock absorption was kind of a cop out.
HOWEVER:
The last scene was gut wrenchingly beautiful.

[unfocused]

I loved the episode, it was beautiful. The ending was just... wow, incredible.

[ClarkyBoy14]

Well, for the good column, we had some good continuity, a pretty cool Toyman and at least Clark realized in the DP roof scene that everyone's safety was more important than his and Lana's relationship, so he told her to do what needed to be done.

I thought it was interesting that Clana was restarted on the DP roof and then it was killed there as well.

[CKWannabe]

I loved the episode, it was beautiful. The ending was just... wow, incredible.

It definitely was powerful & awesome acting BUT waaaayyyy too cruel a twist to call it "beautiful"....were u not crying ur eyes out???? oh wait im a guy - we dont cry;)

[Cogito17]

I thought it was a great episode. The only two flaws were that it certainly casts doubt on Clark developping feelings for Lois and Clark going after Lex for revenge, not justice. Though, Clark did come to his senses and show remorse for Lex's "death".

I don't get particularly upset when Clark does things like that however, he is supposed to have a "human" side, and in that moment, you can relate to how he might have felt. It's not really so much a flaw in the episode IMO, as much as a demonstration of Clark's "human" side. As long as he doesn't actually cross that line, it's understandable to me. I'm sure others will disagree.

The ending was very touching, but as I said, it now puts things in an awkward position if they want to continue developing Clark and Lois romantically. That said, I don't know how much of a flaw it was in the episode itself, it was beautifully done, it will just be interesting how the writers handle the return of Lois after these episodes.

[susangail]

I promise that I won't rant. I will simply say that "Requiem" causes problems on so many levels.

Clana vs Clois: That's not the point. The interruption of clois is so complete that any resumption in that direction will not be believable.

What happened to Lex: You mean for me to believe that it's forever? I'm dubious. In the meantime, Oliver has to face himself in the mirror, and I believe that what he's done will eat him alive. For no reason.

Chloe: Evidence of an unholy relationship with Oliver, ostensibly over Clark. They've both debased themselves over him. What would he think?

Lana's departure a tear-jerker? Not at all. I was stunned that TPTB would leave it at that.

[outsyder]

Well, as far as Smallville is concerned I feel that it was a decent culmination of the character. Going into the episode I either suspected:

1. Super Lana saves the day and decides that the world needs her so she leaves and forces Clark to become Superman (ugh...)

2. Lana takes center stage and dies, making Lois a consolation prize for Clark (double ugh...)

3. Lana and Clark save the day and after much debate she joins the Justice League and goes off to off-screenville where the Angel of Vengeance is currently residing.

However, the full circle-ness of bringing back the kryptonite barrier- FOR SMALLVILLE at least- was fairly decently written and the last scene was a little more profound than the usual Dawson's Creek song-of-the-week heartache ending.

All in all, I've always thought Kreuk was a nice actress and obviously went out for many projects that most actresses would scoff at. However, the character grew into something that I felt was disjointed from the troubled cheerleader she began as. Although this episode has completely and utterly destroyed any credibility of Clois (unless there's a HUGE time jump and it's Golden-age Daily Planet and Clark is actually Clark) I would say that as far as the final treatment for Lana and the culmination of her and Clark's story arc, it was done better than I expected and the nods to that initial character she began as was very much appreciated from a writers' standpoint.

[ledzepfan23]

Good episode. It was pretty solid. I feel like they could have ended clark and lana's relationship in a different way though.

[RowdyEl]

I sure don't understand how it could be considered awkward for him to move forward and have a relationship with Lois!he never told Lois he loved her nor has he even kissed her of his own freewill...they each have went through relationships so I don't see why they couldn't be together.

[greatodinsbeard]

I it was overall a good episode. Lex isn't really dead but by doing what they did the writers won't have to worry about writing in references to him all the time and the reason for the Justice League to be seperated is gone. Clark now has to let Lana go and move forward which he realized anyway, plus that last scene was really really good and wraped up the Clark and Lana thing nice. It wont really make Clark and Lois seem awkward because Clark really hasn't paid attention to Lois in that way yet. Also Oliver stepping over the line like that gives his character more of a purpose because now he has to find a way to redeem himself because we just know that Clark will find out what he did. Also Toyman was pretty cool, very much like the comics.

[DontCha]

seeing as my thread dropped quicker than i could blink i'll post this in here..my calm analysis:

Ok guys, I know lots of people are upset because they feel as if clark has regressed, that clois has been destroyed but there are a few things I have to say in retaliation to this. Firstly the big picture. I know it looks as if right now Lana is who he wants to be with and lois is second choice, but please take this into consideration. This is not the ending of the season it is the middle.

I study film, I do film making and production the pattern of events in any story/episode/season is:

Act 1 Equilibrium

Act 2 DISRUPTION

Act 3 NEW equilibrium.

Right so this season, as a story:

Act 1: Equilibrium AKA a state of well being (episodes 1- 10)
Clark progressing, clois progressing, clark has feelings for lois, Lois loves clark.

Act 2: DISRUPTION aka something that DESTROYS the equilibrium and threatenes the happy and correct ending in this case, clark becoming superman/clois (episodes 11 - 14)
We saw clark regress, superman almost become non existant, clois almost not happening..

Act 3 NEW equlibrium is the heros attempt to restore the equilibrium, and it does become restored but it is different due to the events of the disruption (episodes 14 - 22)

My guess? Clark will propell into superman status, He will be utterly in love with Lois but Lois will be reserved, and we have the correct ending which links in with the mythos, it wasnt RIGHT before. Lois loving clark and having him not so much, it was wrong, the new equilibrium is correct and the disruptuion HAD to happen in order to cause this.

Also I'm, going to drag up Instinct. remember this is an episode where the clark lois soulmate bond is hinted, something clana never had. Maxima also said Clark doesnt even realize the TRUE extent of his connection to lois YET and by bride he STILL hasnt realized it.

In the loft, the writers show us that Clark does not believe lana is his soul mate, because he flat out says he's still looking for his soulmate, he knows Lana is not the one.

"what if my soulmate comes along and i'm too blind to see it"

1. Lois is standing right in front of him
2. He's too blind at the moment to see that SHE is his soulmate
3. The scene indicates that Lois is in fact his soulmate and he just needs to realize it, he is still totally unaware that she is the ONE. Maxima even backed this up earlier.

that moment of realization is still to come. And when it does, it will be something he has never felt before.

[Cogito17]

Great post DontCha. I have been trying to say similar things in other thread, but to no avail.

Lana is Clark's only romantic love really, thus he has no room for comparison. At some point it may dawn on him that while he had a deep connection to Lana, his connection to Lois may be deeper still.

[unfocused]

I agree, great post Dontcha, you to Cogito17.

Clois hasn't even formed yet. And to say Clark will never get over Lana or that Lois will always be second to her is like saying any man could never get over a woman and that any woman after will always be second to the other woman.

And that's just not true. The Clois relationship isn't even romantic yet. Clark doesn't have fiery feelings for Lois yet. So there is no way he's going to rebound to her. He'll move on from Lana. He'll begin to gain feelings for Lois. His relationship with Lois will be real, after he has already moved on from Lana.

I find it funny that many of these people that aren't believing in the future of Clois, are many of the same people that said the Clois was moving too fast back in Committed. Kind of a funny coincidence, don't you think, guys? :rolleyes:

[jjacobs]

I thought this episode was a bit (just a bit) above average.

I didn't funny the Toyman frightening in the beginning. I did find him creepy when he entered Oliver's hospital room. I was like, "Oh crap!" But, I felt the Smallville writers were attempting to make the Toyman like the Joker (The Dark Knight). He was creepy and funny at the same time.

I cried during that last scene. It was so beautiful in a depressing way. I find the bashers quite funny. They're really not putting this episode in terms of character development. Lana leaving is a painful expierence for Clark. However, this painful expierence for Clark will allow him to grow up and become a stronger character (that which does not kills you makes you stronger). In a way, Lana's departure is a turning point in the story (if only the bashers would take a breath...).

The only problem I had with the episode was the tension/conflict. I think it could've escalated higher. I didn't really feel any sense of danger or conflict in this episode. It was a very one note and depressing (perhaps this was to strengthen the very sad ending).

The episode was a bit better than the "generic" episode of Smallville. I would give it a 7.5/10

[toyadam]

While the closing up up the Lana storyline seems to be a big debate, I think that this episode was exceptional in its outlining Superman's ethics/morals. The scene where Clark confronts Chloe on Oliver's plane was awesome. The dialogue finally emphasized Clark's unwillingness to end another person's life. I can't really remember any other time in the series where Clark was so stout in defending this notion. It was great to finally see this part of Clark emerge so forcefully.

[j-kent]

that's funny... cause I started a thread proposing the same idea but get subjugated and thread deleted...nice!

[jjacobs]

We should do this after every episode. Calm Discussion of: [episode title]

[j-kent]

Oh, I was just trying to be funny based on last week's response. But, you're right, even that is pretty negative and sarcastic.

I just didn't want it to devolve into all the shippers going at it and people posting that they rated it a "1" just because of Clana and not discuss other elements of the episode.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. It's okay to come in here and post why you hated it. This is not the politically correct thread, just the thread where you can think about the episode in more detail after getting over any disappointment you may have had with it.

Every episode needs it, not just the Lana episodes. I only thought to create during the Power discussion.

If we had more ppl thinking like you...this would be a better place thank you! haha

[abc123]

Hi everyone. First off, bravo for the thread--much needed.

I agree with a lot of what others have posted and I think that, overall, most of the pro's and con's of Lana's send-off have been decently covered on the forums. I'd like to add my two cents though.

In most ways I was pretty disappointed with Requiem. My loyalty (so to speak) has never been to any relationship or couple, or even any sense of 'preserving' the authenticity of Superman mythology (aside from the basics of course). I just wanted a good story, and an interesting interpretation of Clark Kent's early history. In a lot of ways, the show has succeeded in this regard but I think that Requiem was a pretty massive deviation towards almost certainly unrecoverable territory. Some foundations of Superman have really been undermined.

As others have mentioned, the forced separation of Clark and Lana really does taint any kind of relationship with Lois. It seems to me that the writers didn't have the guts to provide a real, legitimate Clark-Lana breakup. They've built this relationship up over the last 8 years and seemed to think that writing a story where Clark and Lana willingly go their separate ways--without coercion, amnesia, or the threat of death--would somehow corrupt the ideal that they had built. So instead they chose to corrupt and taint any future Clark-Lois story.

Would it really have been so bad to have Clark and Lana decide that they want different things in life? The absurd thing, for me, is that they have actually ran this story several times in the show but never have the conviction to stick with it. What resulted was the definition of a cop out and because of it a major part of Superman's story can never be the recovered.

I'm definitely not a Clana devotee like some other posters, but this ending just continued the perpetual undermining of Clark as anything resembling a confident adult who can make difficult decisions. The entire development of the supposed future Superman has come about a a result of other people's actions that force Clark to reluctantly move toward the goal we all envision. He seems like a constant victim of one circumstance or another, he determines very little of his own life, and his supposed vision and moral greatness boils down to essentially: "do not murder when you can avoid it...kind of...unless you are really upset." Chloe does almost all Clark's thinking, Oliver and Lana are the only 'heroes' with any ability to make a decision or have some long term vision, and Clark even needs to rely on others to set him straight ethically. What's left for Clark?

The show has had 8 years to find a way of bringing Clark to the precipice of becoming Superman. Lana started off as a vehicle that could have helped this process--they try to be together, realize that Clark has a big future ahead of him and needs to expand his horizons a little, they then separate to give each other some space to grow and end up meeting people they like more. The show actually went down this path for a while! In the end, we got the opposite: something that will hold Clark back even more.

The one positive: Requiem established Lex's evil genius status. He finally broke out into himself.

Sorry for the length, any thoughts or criticisms are appreciated!

[kankan9]

Ohh well I gotta say the episode ending did touch me, however I think it was too dramatic and overdone. I think the best way they could have gotten rid of Lana could have been Clark realizing that he was in love with Lois, and that he actually told Lana that. I think Lana would have understood and she would have left...cause sure like abc123 said, they had a very long and previous relationship so they couldn't have just talked to each other and then leave... but oh well... I hope the show gets better next episode, I would still want to see a season 9, so I will pretend the last 5 episodes never happened and that Lana never came back.....

[cheers]

In most ways I was pretty disappointed with Requiem. My loyalty (so to speak) has never been to any relationship or couple, or even any sense of 'preserving' the authenticity of Superman mythology (aside from the basics of course). I just wanted a good story, and an interesting interpretation of Clark Kent's early history. In a lot of ways, the show has succeeded in this regard but I think that Requiem was a pretty massive deviation towards almost certainly unrecoverable territory. Some foundations of Superman have really been undermined.

As others have mentioned, the forced separation of Clark and Lana really does taint any kind of relationship with Lois. It seems to me that the writers didn't have the guts to provide a real, legitimate Clark-Lana breakup. They've built this relationship up over the last 8 years and seemed to think that writing a story where Clark and Lana willingly go their separate ways--without coercion, amnesia, or the threat of death--would somehow corrupt the ideal that they had built. So instead they chose to corrupt and taint any future Clark-Lois story.

Would it really have been so bad to have Clark and Lana decide that they want different things in life? The absurd thing, for me, is that they have actually ran this story several times in the show but never have the conviction to stick with it. What resulted was the definition of a cop out and because of it a major part of Superman's story can never be the recovered.

I'm definitely not a Clana devotee like some other posters, but this ending just continued the perpetual undermining of Clark as anything resembling a confident adult who can make difficult decisions. The entire development of the supposed future Superman has come about a a result of other people's actions that force Clark to reluctantly move toward the goal we all envision. He seems like a constant victim of one circumstance or another, he determines very little of his own life, and his supposed vision and moral greatness boils down to essentially: "do not murder when you can avoid it...kind of...unless you are really upset." Chloe does almost all Clark's thinking, Oliver and Lana are the only 'heroes' with any ability to make a decision or have some long term vision, and Clark even needs to rely on others to set him straight ethically. What's left for Clark?

The show has had 8 years to find a way of bringing Clark to the precipice of becoming Superman. Lana started off as a vehicle that could have helped this process--they try to be together, realize that Clark has a big future ahead of him and needs to expand his horizons a little, they then separate to give each other some space to grow and end up meeting people they like more. The show actually went down this path for a while! In the end, we got the opposite: something that will hold Clark back even more.

The one positive: Requiem established Lex's evil genius status. He finally broke out into himself.

Sorry for the length, any thoughts or criticisms are appreciated!
abc123, I wanted to agree with much of what you said. Like you, I was open to a fair amount of deviation from the standard Superman story as long as it was well-told, interesting and consistent and as long as it remained true to the heart of the mythos. I have been accepting of many of the deviations from canonical history as a result.

But this episode for me was all about what Smallville has always gotten wrong and you put your finger on the biggest one in your post. Smallville has almost never allowed Clark to be proactive in the decisions that shape his life--and in the rare instances he has, he has almost always been wrong (putting on the red kryptonite ring and becoming a criminal in Metropolis that one summer, not going off and doing his training, choosing to be normal and give up his powers, resurrecting Lana even knowing someone else he loved would die in her place, etc., etc.). This might be acceptable if he appeared to learn anything from any of his mistakes, but he rarely seems to. He just seems to be buffetted about by the world without taking charge of anything.

Furthermore, this man who has above average intelligence and unwavering morality in virtually every other incarnation cedes his thinking out to his best friend Chloe and relies on everyone else to tell him not to kill time and time again. This man is supposed to be the greatest and most ethical superhero the universe--not just Earth--has ever known and one who will inspire billions, yet as portrayed on Smallville, he can barely think for himself either intellectually or morally and relies on the world to make the big choices in his life. Incredible.

And pretty much all of those things happened in this episode. And as a result, Clark doesn't end up looking like a hero or like he has learned much of anything in the eight years of the show. It was a huge regression of his character that served no purpose other than to finish off KK's contractual obligation to the show. I'm not blaming anyone but the writers for that. There are many ways they could have written this arc that would have done great service to Lana and the Clana relationship while furthering Clark's development from the first half of this season. But instead the writers wrote it in a way that did the most damage to Clark's character, They seemed to have forgotten that it was his journey they were writing.

Where I disagree with you and others is that this has tainted the Clois relationship forever. While I hope to god that TPTB aren't going to have Clark in love with Lois anytime soon, I don't believe that the way Clark's relationship with Lana ended has anything to do with the ultimate strength of his love for Lois. It should impact the timing of that relationship--if he's really that traumatized by the breakup with Lana then he won't be able to fall for Lois right now--and even could impact its early stages--he might enter any new relationship believing it can never compare to what he had with Lana but wanting to move on nevertheless. But once he does fall for Lois, given that even Smallville has always foreshadowed that she, not Lana, is his soulmate and ultimate true love, he'll realize that what he has with Lois is even more profound and deeper than what he had with Lana. How things ended with Lana will cast a bittersweet memory over the Clana relationship, but will not diminish what he later finds with Lois. One love simply has nothing to do with the other. They are both what they are: Lana the tragic first love that can never be and Lois the great love and soulmate of Clark Kent/Superman.

One final comment unrelated to your post. The other criticism of this episode that really gets to the heart of what's wrong in my opinion is that it is so completely unrelated not only to the arcs that precede and follow it this season, but to the entirety of how Clana's relationship has been portrayed on this show. No matter how tragic or bittersweet the ending was, it didn't ring true to the man Clark seemed to be growing into this season or the imperfect relationship Clana were always shown to have. In a parting interview with Smallville Magazine, one of the creators said that season 7 was about why Clark and Lana don't work as a couple and even in Power 95% percent of the episode seemed to be about that as well. But then suddenly we're supposed to believe after a one day reunion that they are really a tragic pair ripped apart by the kryptonite poisoning and not their own problems? I really can't buy that. Again, if TPTB has only remained true to what had been written previously, they could have written Lana off in a way that repected her character, elevated her relationship with Clark, and didn't debase Clark or disrespect the 7 1/2 years that preceeded it. I really can't fathom why they chose the route they did.

And the sad thing is, I think all of this will be forgotten by the next few episodes as the regularly scheduled season 8 resumes. Because if they can forget the first half of season 8, let alone the previous 7 years for this 4 episode arc then they can certainly forget about their tragic Clana ending next episode in order to focus on Clois. Which doesn't serve either ship or any of the characters.

Call me Baffled by TPTB.

[stenochick]

I just got on the computer and don't have time to post! I liked Requiem and will post in more detail later when I have time. I'm glad you all like this thread.

[costas22]

It was quite a cruel way to end Clana.To be honest,the last thing i expected form PS3 was Clark on his knees after Lana has left him.It would have made the next episodes more interesting had Clark decided to end it himself.Apart from that i loved the pace of the episode as well as Oliver's dark role.

[unfocused]

I just got on the computer and don't have time to post! I liked Requiem and will post in more detail later when I have time. I'm glad you all like this thread.
I'm glad you liked the episode. Can't wait for more details :)

[Cogito17]

Hi everyone. First off, bravo for the thread--much needed.

I agree with a lot of what others have posted and I think that, overall, most of the pro's and con's of Lana's send-off have been decently covered on the forums. I'd like to add my two cents though.

In most ways I was pretty disappointed with Requiem. My loyalty (so to speak) has never been to any relationship or couple, or even any sense of 'preserving' the authenticity of Superman mythology (aside from the basics of course). I just wanted a good story, and an interesting interpretation of Clark Kent's early history. In a lot of ways, the show has succeeded in this regard but I think that Requiem was a pretty massive deviation towards almost certainly unrecoverable territory. Some foundations of Superman have really been undermined.

As others have mentioned, the forced separation of Clark and Lana really does taint any kind of relationship with Lois. It seems to me that the writers didn't have the guts to provide a real, legitimate Clark-Lana breakup. They've built this relationship up over the last 8 years and seemed to think that writing a story where Clark and Lana willingly go their separate ways--without coercion, amnesia, or the threat of death--would somehow corrupt the ideal that they had built. So instead they chose to corrupt and taint any future Clark-Lois story.

Would it really have been so bad to have Clark and Lana decide that they want different things in life? The absurd thing, for me, is that they have actually ran this story several times in the show but never have the conviction to stick with it. What resulted was the definition of a cop out and because of it a major part of Superman's story can never be the recovered.

I disagree with this. One idea that seems to have somehow been ingrained in the mind of KSite posters is that the return of Lana had to bring closure to her relationship to Clark. In real life, if one is dumped or forced away from their significant other, are they required to go back to that person and make a clear statement that their relationship is over before they are allowed to move on to someone else? I think the answer is no. The only thing that has to happen to restore the validity of Lois and Clark's romantic relationship is some admission from Clark that his feelings for Lois are stronger than his feelings were for Lana. As I've said elsewhere, Lana is his first true love, so he has no real comparison to determine it's measure. Falling for Lois may put his relationship to Lana in perspective.

Besides, Ollie and Chloe have both now killed, so I wouldn't consider them the strongest sources of morality all the time.


I'm definitely not a Clana devotee like some other posters, but this ending just continued the perpetual undermining of Clark as anything resembling a confident adult who can make difficult decisions. The entire development of the supposed future Superman has come about a a result of other people's actions that force Clark to reluctantly move toward the goal we all envision. He seems like a constant victim of one circumstance or another, he determines very little of his own life, and his supposed vision and moral greatness boils down to essentially: "do not murder when you can avoid it...kind of...unless you are really upset." Chloe does almost all Clark's thinking, Oliver and Lana are the only 'heroes' with any ability to make a decision or have some long term vision, and Clark even needs to rely on others to set him straight ethically. What's left for Clark?

Again, I respectfully disagree. Clark made the difficult decision in this episode. He gave up the woman he loves for the greater good with little to no hesitation. He let Lana absorb the kryptonite to save the city. He MADE the tough decision. Also, for most of the show he was dishing out the lectures on not killing to Oliver and Chloe, and he was right (See the Chloe/Clark scene on the plane).

Now, I will admit that him going after Lex in the truck with the intention to kill was questionable. But, if he is supposed to have human emotions, you can understand how hs emotion overran his logic in this incident. Also, he later displayed remorse for Lex's death, and who is to say that he wouldn't have come to his senses anyways.


The show has had 8 years to find a way of bringing Clark to the precipice of becoming Superman. Lana started off as a vehicle that could have helped this process--they try to be together, realize that Clark has a big future ahead of him and needs to expand his horizons a little, they then separate to give each other some space to grow and end up meeting people they like more. The show actually went down this path for a while! In the end, we got the opposite: something that will hold Clark back even more.

The one positive: Requiem established Lex's evil genius status. He finally broke out into himself.

Sorry for the length, any thoughts or criticisms are appreciated!

I don't see the problem with Clark facing obstacles to becoming Superman. The whole show has been full of them since day 1. I have never personally been of the perspective that Clark's journey to Superman must follow on a straight path, where each episode he is slowly progressing towards that ultimate goal. I am completely fine with obstacles, set backs, and enjoying the ride, as long as he reaches the right place in the end. (I know I am probably in the minority here on KSite with that opinion though :lol:)

Also, I agree, the portrayal of Lex as an evil genius was great. He put Clark to the test, and in this case, got the better of him. It wasn't just a physical battle that he put him up to either, it was a test of his mettle as a person. Which is another reason why Clark's decision to consider killing Lex is an interesting one. Lex ALMOST won a huge moral battle - forcing Clark to kill.

[KneelBeforeZod!]

k. here's my take.

I just watched the episode, and I've got to say I rather enjoyed it. everyone's griping about clark's low point. But maybe that is what the writer's wanted to show. that even the man of steel can be brought to his knees...literally. I really felt for clark.

first of all, he's an alien having to hide that fact all his life for fear of what folks will think or do if they found out (ahem...see Lex Luthor)! that's got to be frustrating.

so he finally finds someone who does not jugde him, but rather loves him, and by a cruel twist of fate, over and over again, he has to give up that love. that's got to be double frustrating.

and what about the character turns for lana, chloe and oliver? One by one all the people clark has loved and trusted are being turned into homocidal or power-hungry maniacs either because of the Luthor's or the aliens that have followed clark to earth. Indeed, the villains are taking EVERYTHING ffrom clark!

He's loved lana despite her turning to the dark side every now and then, but what happens when he finds out even chloe and ollie are no different? that going to be a double--no a triple--blow to his trust in humans, the same humans he is suppose to save! (but maybe he can forgive it seeing that he felt that same need to kill last night)

He's down right now. So the question is how is he going to get up, especially with Doomsday right around the corner?

I can't wait to see.
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[Fish1941]

He seems like a constant victim of one circumstance or another, he determines very little of his own life, and his supposed vision and moral greatness boils down to essentially: "do not murder when you can avoid it...kind of...unless you are really upset." Chloe does almost all Clark's thinking, Oliver and Lana are the only 'heroes' with any ability to make a decision or have some long term vision, and Clark even needs to rely on others to set him straight ethically.


I have a problem with this comment. Are you saying that Oliver did the right thing by deliberately murdering Lex? And that Clark was wrong to refrain from that act?

I hope you are not saying this.

[stenochick]

I am finally able to get some online time. I started rewatching Requiem while catching up on ironing, but have not finished rewatching it yet.

I have to say that I have totally come around 180 degrees regarding this whole Clark regressing thing with Lana. Yes, he is blinded by romantic love. He tells Lana not to trust Olliver because according to Lana, Ollie went behind Clark's back to kill Lex. Hello?????? Who else does Clark know that kept secrets from him about a Lex vendetta? But, these two are really in love and who am I to tell them that they aren't?

I put all my griping about stuff like that, as well as any plot holes and inconsistencies, to sleep with a beer, and just let myself get caught up in the deeper story -- the myth of it all, if you will. This is a way more entertaining way to watch Smallville. It's not CSI, after all.

1. The dude who played Toyman can really bring the crazy! And I loved that scene with Ollie in the hospital room. Speaking of which --

2. I loved Olliver Queen in Requiem, the quips ("Met's newest power couple"), the sarcasm, the stepping over the line to the dark side.

3. I loved Chloe in Requiem. I know, I know, she needs to be with Jimmy. But in my mind, Star City is a town near Smallville, just like Grandville, so she is only driving on an interstate for a few miles.

Plus, Lois is probably a lot of fun for Jimmy to be with in the hospital. He just needs to get well, with or without his conflicted wife. Also, being there for jimmy in his time of need is a great way for Lois to get over her Clark blues.

I have to remember that these characters are half my age and are going to struggle with important moral and spiritual questions such as, is taking life ever justifiable and if so, under what circumstances?

I know some people feel that this moral ambiguity is making Chloe look bad, but to me it is so much better than when she was written as a Mary Sue and I like watching AM sink her teeth into meatier material. I can't wait for what is coming up with Chloe.

Before I get to the main Lex-Clana arc, I wanted to address the concern that people feel that everyone is becoming a superhero before Clark becomes Superman and that cheapens Clark. I have changed my opinion on this as well.

Clark's power is internal, it is intrinsic, it is part of who he is as a non-human. He is biding his time and carefully weighing his options and learning from all his mistakes and experiences because the stakes are so much higher for him.

Lex, Tess, Chloe, Olliver, and Lana have no inherent super powers and are going through a different process than Clark. So far, we have seen their fatal flaws and the cracks in their armour revealed. I think Clark is going about it the right way, judging from Lana's results and from decisions made by Chloe, and Ollie that will come back to bite them as well.

3. I loved "Lex" in Requiem. They did a great job of concealing enough of him that a lookalike could play him. The actor had enough of Lex's manner of speaking down that I could pretend that it was MR's Lex.

Now that Lex is 100% evil, he does not need a seasoned actor like MR to portray him with any kind of nuance or inner conflict. He just needs a bald head and a voice box.

4. I loved how Lex, being three steps ahead, had the suit, Lana's very skin, absorb Kryptonite forcing Clana to choose between saving the world or being together. Very Phantom of the Opera, Romeo and Juliet, and every other tragic romance.

But, this is also very Lex. The sheer cruelty alone is very Lex. This is far worse for Clark and Lana then Lex killing Lana or killing Clark or doing anything to Clark that did not involve Lana.

The reason I didn't roll my eyes over this Greek tragedy unfolding before my eyes is because Lana had the free will to decide to either destroy the suit or wear the suit. Had she chosen to destroy the suit, she would be able to be with Clark. Oh, the irony. It's just so tragic.

Lana Lang donned that suit so that she could be invincible, so that she could live and work side by side with Clark but that very decision has now prevented her from being anywhere near him.

By her desire and acquisition of invincibility, she has become Clark's greatest weakness, the only thing that he knows of that can kill him.

She now has no choice but to leave him and let him grieve their loss and hopefully fall in love with someone else and build a life with that person. And vice versa. Clark needs to let Lana grieve and let her fall in love and build a life with someone if that is what she wants.

But, at this point, I think Lana has had enough of being in relationships and will prefer to be a solo superheroine. And I daresay that Lana, albeit subconsciously, chose the suit over Clark last summer.

I think at this point, regarding Clana, TPTB need to let it be. The story is finished, just like you know when your painting is finished and you have to just stop and not put anymore paint on the canvas. Please no season 9 plot to cure Lana of her krypto-absorption so she can be with Clark.

I thought it was beautiful storytelling. I give it an 9 because my ratings are heavily Clois-weighted so without Lois in an episode the highest I can go is 9.

[thehenry89]

I thought the episode was fundamentally flawed, again that's as objective as I get in regards to Requiem.

[stenochick]

I thought the episode was fundamentally flawed, again that's as objective as I get in regards to Requiem.

Can you elaborate? I like hearing everyone's thoughts and I don't have time to read all the posts in the "loved it, hated it..." thread.

[Superman's_Wife]

My calm, respectful analysis of Requiem - It was a joke. A bad one.

And I'd love to elaborate on that but I've already done so repeatedly throughout this forum. :)

[bigvillir001]

hey everyone,

so last nights eps sad and bite of a downer to some of the fans both clana Clois fans. For one clana ends sadly but we all have to remember what its like loosing first Loves its very painful and what we we learn from it helps us move farward. now think about it like this no matter what the writters did or didn't do right the end result would still be the same because Clark's greatest fear is being alone that why he wanted L to stay. But another fact is also true Clark told her the suit could be dangerous to her to him and he was right And if you love someone enough but can't be with them you havw to let them go that someday they will find the one they are truly meant be with.

Now for Clois fans this will show us how careful Lois/Clark will be in their relationship Lois will guard herself mor and clark will think he's destinid to be alone

Oliver was right when he said to Chloe Clark is going to need his friends more than ever they didn't do anything to Damage Clois b/c the one thing about them is their amazing friendship that they both depend on. so much and thats why they fall in love with each other cause their friendship grows into more something more that they both dont yet understand. I think that clark wont feel the same for a while i dont think after this he's ready to to love anyone but what we will all see the clois friends grow and believe me i cant wait to have Lois back bustung his chops she wont make it easy on him but she still will push him around and challenge him keep him on his toes as it should be .

[thehenry89]

Can you elaborate? I like hearing everyone's thoughts and I don't have time to read all the posts in the "loved it, hated it..." thread.

I can elaborate on ceartain things but others will probably upset me so I'll leave them out.

1. I don't like the direction Oliver's charachter is going.

2. Chloe is also taking a turn for the worse, and once again she's not in Star City with her husband.

3. I think they could have utalized the toyman more.

4. I missed tess this episode I really think she would have added alot to my overall enjoyment.

[SnowBird]

Here I am after a nights rest and watching this episode three times and crying at the end each time. I was critisized for crying but I just can't help it. No, I'm not a Lana fan. I'm a Clark fan and it just broke me up at how much pain he was in when he was with Lana for the last time. I have read the posts in this forum and at the CW forum, and read a review. It seems that for the most part that aside from liking or disliking the bulk of the episode, the last scene was the best part for many. It tugged at the heart strings to be the most well acted and emotional scene between Tom and Kristin. To see two people in love being ripped apart by Clark's nemisis was the cruelist thing that Lex could have ever done. I'm not going to argue about what the ending should or shouldn't have been like. There is no going back for a redo so what would be the point.

What I saw brings to mind in the first episode of how Clark couldn't get close to Lana 5 feet before he fell at her feet from the Kryptonite necklace she wore. Chloe and Pete even made a bet on it. How that scene brought the last scene full circle as Clark fell at Lana's feet after the Kryptonite kiss. Smallville was developed for the Love story of Clark and Lana by the producers own words. It was always meant to be their love story. I'm not sure why people have a hard time understanding this after watching for 8 seasons. Yes Lana has done some awlful things to Clark. Yes, Clark kept his secret from her causing trust issues with Lana. All I can say is like Clark said, "he chooses to see the good in people" after Ryan pointed out that Lex couldn't be trusted. Clark has the capacity for foregiveness and he did forgive Lex and tried again in season 4 to be friends with him. Clark did forgive Lana in season 7 to try and make a go of their relationship again. Lana was taken from him in S7 so nothing was resolved in their relationship. Lana returned to bring up all the emotions that Clark had thought he had buried. I know the feeling as I do bury my feelings thinking I have a handle on past hurts but then something will trigger a memory and it all comes flooding back.

Requiem or Death. This episode was properly named as the death of a relationship. Death of Lex as we knew him. It wouldn't surprise me with the technology that Lex had for cloning that there isn't a clone of Lex somewhere. Anyway, I do believe it is the end of Lex in Smallville. The end of Clark and Lana. The end of their relationship that began and ended in Smallvile. An end to a love story, but not the end of Clark Kent. This will make him stronger as tradgedy does. At 21. Clark has gone through so much in his young life. It has shaped him to be the man that will be the Superman we know. Not the perfect man, but the man who puts humans above his own needs. The man who understands the emotional and physical hurting of others. Only someone who has been through those types of situations in life can understand what it is like and be able to help others in their need. Superman is more than powers. He is hope and a hero that we can all look up to.

Smallville has been more to me than a TV show. It has been what has filled the lonely hours when my life has been turned upside down. A place where I can go to forget the problems of the world for a little while. No, I haven't lost track of reality but a little break from it is a good thing. Thanks Smallville for giving me a hero to be proud of.

Thanks also to Stenochick for opening this thread. I had to go find it as she said it would probably get lost in the shuffle and it did. I appreciate her efforts to give us a place to post our thoughts away from the rest of the pack.

----- Added 13 Minutes later -----

I enjoyed your review Stenochick. You made some points that I was thinking but couldn't put it in words as well as you. Thanks:)

[stenochick]

I can elaborate on ceartain things but others will probably upset me so I'll leave them out.

1. I don't like the direction Oliver's charachter is going.

2. Chloe is also taking a turn for the worse, and once again she's not in Star City with her husband.

3. I think they could have utalized the toyman more.

4. I missed tess this episode I really think she would have added alot to my overall enjoyment.

Thanks for sharing. I am slowly making my way through the "Loved it, Hated it..." thread so I am sure I will get to more of your posts.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----

I agree with Snowbird that Clark will learn from this and grow stronger. We are watching Lana, Tess, Olliver, and Chloe self-destruct before our eyes. Clark will need his friends and his friends will need him.

I think that Clark needs time to grieve his relationship with Lana and sort out his feelings for Lois, but I totally think it is possible for Clark and Lois to become more legendary than Clark and Lana and that that can start at the end of season 8.

[Radioflyer]

After you have had time to process the Clana and anything else that made you want to rip your hair out, and you still want to chat, or if you loved the episode from the start, please feel free to join the discussion here. :)Even thought it was sad for Clark and Lana, the relationship had to end in some way, this may as well be it. I've enjoyed every moment of this episode. I don't care if I'm the only one.


My only peve is with the inconsistent effect of Kryptonite. In some instances Clark can walk up to two feet before he feels the effects and others it's five or ten feet. But I'm not going to boil over trivia like most people around here.

[rosalba]

I am calm now.
I don't hate lana anymore, I really feel sorry for her...she went through alot to get superpowers, she thoutht she could be equal to Clark and live happily ever, but she underestimate lex, now she can't be with Clark and its all her fault.
Time will teach her that you don't need to have superpowers to be with Clark, it only takes to be an AMAZING woman like Lois Lane to win Clark, and that is something that Lana would never be.

[Superman's_Wife]

I am calm now.
I don't hate lana anymore, I really feel sorry for her...she went through alot to get superpowers, she thoutht she could be equal to Clark and live happily ever, but she underestimate lex, now she can't be with Clark and its all her fault.
Time will teach her that you don't need to have superpowers to be with Clark, it only takes to be an AMAZING woman like Lois Lane to win Clark, and that is something that Lana would never be.

Yes, at the end of the day this was all Lana Lang's doing. She deserved the ending she got! :)

[Radioflyer]

I am calm now.
I don't hate lana anymore, I really feel sorry for her...she went through alot to get superpowers, she thoutht she could be equal to Clark and live happily ever, but she underestimate lex, now she can't be with Clark and its all her fault.
Time will teach her that you don't need to have superpowers to be with Clark, it only takes to be an AMAZING woman like Lois Lane to win Clark, and that is something that Lana would never be.Yeah, we all know Lois Lane isn't at all flawed.

[Superman's_Wife]

Yeah, we all know Lois Lane isn't at all flawed.

That poster said that Lois Lane was amazing. Not flawless. Please read carefully. Everyone knows that no one on the series (save for Shelby) is perfect.

[stenochick]

What Lex did by separating Clark and Lana was beyond cruel but Clark will be the victor because he will realize that he has feelings for Lois and will learn that we are not destined to be with just one person.

You can love someone deeply as a young man, lose them, and then love someone on an even deeper level in marriage as a mature man. We all know the ending. Clark does grow from this and that will be his revenge on Lex.

I think he has feelings for Lois that have obviously been on hold but when she returns she will make those feelings stir and he will have to figure out where he wants to take things with Lois. He could have these feelings but suppress them and just stay friends with Lois for season 8, until he grieves and figures things out.
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----- Added 45 Seconds later -----


That poster said that Lois Lane was amazing. Not flawless. Please read carefully. Everyone knows that no one on the series (save for Shelby) is perfect.

Clark is really going to need Shelby right now. I hope he remembers where he left her.:lol:

[kaam]

Great Idea. I will get back to you after I have been rehabbed!

[Fly by guy]

Gawd, where's that muffin baking woman....um, Martha? Clark needs you now, Washington can wait. Would it have killed them to have waited for the Clois build up until after KK had done her obligatory 5 eppies. I'm glad they showed Clana hadn't "died" just because Clark couldn't be who he needed to be and the regret is that the story line was SOOOOO weak. Basically, they have had 7.5 years to come up with a way to split them up and this was the BEST they could do, ouch.

[abc123]

I disagree with this. One idea that seems to have somehow been ingrained in the mind of KSite posters is that the return of Lana had to bring closure to her relationship to Clark. In real life, if one is dumped or forced away from their significant other, are they required to go back to that person and make a clear statement that their relationship is over before they are allowed to move on to someone else? I think the answer is no. The only thing that has to happen to restore the validity of Lois and Clark's romantic relationship is some admission from Clark that his feelings for Lois are stronger than his feelings were for Lana. As I've said elsewhere, Lana is his first true love, so he has no real comparison to determine it's measure. Falling for Lois may put his relationship to Lana in perspective.

Besides, Ollie and Chloe have both now killed, so I wouldn't consider them the strongest sources of morality all the time.



Again, I respectfully disagree. Clark made the difficult decision in this episode. He gave up the woman he loves for the greater good with little to no hesitation. He let Lana absorb the kryptonite to save the city. He MADE the tough decision. Also, for most of the show he was dishing out the lectures on not killing to Oliver and Chloe, and he was right (See the Chloe/Clark scene on the plane).

Now, I will admit that him going after Lex in the truck with the intention to kill was questionable. But, if he is supposed to have human emotions, you can understand how hs emotion overran his logic in this incident. Also, he later displayed remorse for Lex's death, and who is to say that he wouldn't have come to his senses anyways.



I don't see the problem with Clark facing obstacles to becoming Superman. The whole show has been full of them since day 1. I have never personally been of the perspective that Clark's journey to Superman must follow on a straight path, where each episode he is slowly progressing towards that ultimate goal. I am completely fine with obstacles, set backs, and enjoying the ride, as long as he reaches the right place in the end. (I know I am probably in the minority here on KSite with that opinion though :lol:)

Also, I agree, the portrayal of Lex as an evil genius was great. He put Clark to the test, and in this case, got the better of him. It wasn't just a physical battle that he put him up to either, it was a test of his mettle as a person. Which is another reason why Clark's decision to consider killing Lex is an interesting one. Lex ALMOST won a huge moral battle - forcing Clark to kill.

Don't know if anyone is still reading these posts, but anyway...

I semi-agree with you that Supermans development doesn't need to follow a straight path. In fact, I appreciate the attempt by the writers (at times) to actually have Clark deal with difficult situations and make mistakes which will eventually establish his moral sense.

However, I don't think that this episode's ordeals fall into this category. First of all, the supposed "tough decision" wasn't all that tough. He sacrificed his relationship to save thousands of lives. Its tragic and its consequences hard to deal with but in the end its pretty obvious what had to be done.

Also, I' not saying that Chloe or Oliver are the shows moral guardians--just that they seem to be able to actually make decisions in the service of a long term vision. For better or worse, they are enabling Clark to become Superman by keeping him safe. Clark isn't doing this himself; he just seems oblivious to his place in the world. I don't see his reluctance to emerge as a hero as a noble conflict, but more as an inexplicably foolish and childish denial. What exactly is he waiting for? Why does he need more convincing?

Skirting the issue of whether its wrong for Oliver and Chloe to have killed to protect Clark or the world at large, they have both devoted themselves to trying to help the world and are willing to make sacrifices in the service of that end--even if they have to sacrifice their sense of self assurance. Clark also makes sacrifices but he never seems to go as far as he should. After all, he is incredibly powerful--shouldn't he be doing that much more than Oliver? It still seems to me that Clark is just a victim of circumstance far too often.

Back to the Lana issue though...I don't think its as simple as saying that Clark will just realize that he likes Lois more. The writers can have Clark announce this to us but I just don't think it is believable. Clark and Lana didn't split of their own accord--they announced to each other that they are in love and are perfect for each other and were then forced to be apart. Any future relationship will have to exist under the burden of this truth. I don't see one line of dialogue fixing this. In fact, unless they bring Lana back and somehow undo her superpowers, and the arc that came with them, Lois and Clark will (to me) seem forced and slightly absurd.

Till next time...