So what's Olivers problem?

[unfocused]

He seems to have some kind of personal love/hate thing going on with Clark in his own head every few episodes, lol.

I mean here is a guy that steals info from his ally, uses it to seek revenge, destroying what he thought was Lex without making sure it wasn't an innocent person, abusing a drug and quitting crime fighting altogether for a time. And he has the audacity to judge Clark.

One thing I love about Oliver is he has helped put perspective in Clark's life with his speeches and his own mistakes. But to hate him every now and then just because he isn't that perfect person he thinks he should be... is strange. I think Clark's speech to him about saving people (truly saving them means turning their life around) had a hidden message from the writers. Probably referring to how Oliver chooses to be angry and argumentative with a problem before attempting to fix it.

This episode no doubt sent the message that teamwork is important. Maybe from now on Oliver will confront Clark, and anyone else, before being a jerk.

Anyway, my question is why do you think Oliver has been a loose cannon, getting angry with Clark before even confronting him and actually letting him know he is angry?

[Jedimaster_TTBaby]

The poor guy is just misunderstood :\! I really hope this brotherhood thing they talk about will make them stronger individuals.

[susangail]

Because he's a hothead, a mirror image of Clark. After all, red and green are complementary colors...

[alienkinfolk]

I voted for Misunderstanding. Clark may be the only member of Olivers league that doesn't really care to be on it(imo) What i do like about Oliver is that he can break through to the BDA and say stop your whining and do something. Oliver has been straight with Clark from day one.

[WickedJenn]

To me, since Ollie's the "Batman" of the show...they are really emulating the Post-Crisis Supes/Batman with he and Clark.

I think however, Clark's message hit home for Ollie, though I don't think it'll be their last disagreement.

[alienkinfolk]

I like that they disagree. Ollie doesn't make it easy for CK at all.They both try to hold each other accountable

[susangail]

^^^^ So true.

[SnowBird]

I put misunderstanding. Oliver doesn't really know Clark and all he has done for his friends and the world. Take, for instance, Oliver didn't know anything about the phantoms and that Clark saved the world by getting rid of a huge threat. Oliver is judging Clark by what he has seen on the surface and there is so much more to Clark and Ollie hasn't a clue. Because Clark is humble and doesn't brag, Ollie may never know the real Clark, imo.

[dru-zod2501]

As for Clark & Ollie, I swear now the writers just make them fight for the hell of it. I didn't see a justification for Ollie going off on him this time.

[j-kent]

Some part of him is damaged goods, an emotional wreck. Maybe his revelation of his parent's murder is still catalyzing his attitude? Or maybe it's his pride in trying to live up more than humanly possible to Clark's heroics and is hard pressed on Clark's judgment because of that. But they also go about different ways of fighting crime. I agree that they are kind of emulating Green Arrow as the Batman. The Batman and Superman always butted heads because as both fought for good, they always disagreed on on each other's methods. A buncha reasons here, but I do see the "Batman/Superman conflict" and is definitely denoted in this episode. A clash between the Alpha males fighting evil. Two leaders with different methods it's almost classic.

But also, although Ollie is probably somewhere inside proud of Clark for expanding his good above Smallville...I think he wants Clark to be bigger than that

[Watching Smallville]

I like that they disagree. Ollie doesn't make it easy for CK at all.They both try to hold each other accountable

Agreed.

Ollie's a bit of a hot head. They have different styles and express their passion for justice in different ways.

[FlashInSV]

I don't think it's Oliver's problem. It's Clark's. He should act like a hero and not a little child.

[Estro-gen X]

frustration that clark doesn't do more

[ColdPlay3r]

thinks clark can do more
methods

[unfocused]

I don't think it's Oliver's problem. It's Clark's. He should act like a hero and not a little child.

But it's Oliver that has a problem with that, hence "what is Oliver's problem."

[jimmyolsenblues]

my guess is ollie is upset cause ollie spent years getting his skill and clark was born and just lived and has more power than ollie could ever imagine...
plus i think ollie is upset cause clark and lex were friends for years and lex's dad killed ollie's parents..

[blackcelebration]

I honestly think that The Green Arrow is this shows Batman as both Superman and Batman had similar arguments in the comics.

And as this show can't have Batman they have the nearest approxomation, The Green Arrow, instead!

[unfocused]

That's what I think to.

[Iluvgreen]

Um... I don't think he has a problem.

[Dustmite]

Oliver tried to sheeash kebab Lex not too long ago so his words rang hollow in this episode. I'm probably not being very fair to him but he just annoyed me :\

[Yoshua]

he's pissed at clark for lieing to him about Lionel killing his parents.

[WickedJenn]

I honestly think that The Green Arrow is this shows Batman as both Superman and Batman had similar arguments in the comics.

And as this show can't have Batman they have the nearest approxomation, The Green Arrow, instead!

Yep, exactly what I posted too.

[unfocused]

Oliver tried to sheeash kebab Lex not too long ago so his words rang hollow in this episode. I'm probably not being very fair to him but he just annoyed me :\

Oliver's main gripe with Clark is that he isn't the hero that Ollie believes he should try to be. But it's unfair to spite Clark because of that, since it was Clark's help that brought Ollie back from his angry phase when he disbanded the JL after finding out that Clark knew Lionel killed his parents.

What got me mad was when Oliver said he and Clark don't work well together, after everything they've been through and how much they make eachother better...

[moviefan2k4]

I think Oliver's most basic problem is rage. Yes, he wants justice, but that desire is fueled by intense anger regarding his parents' deaths. He lets his temper guide his actions, even more so than his desire to protect people from harm. The way he is written on the show, I don't doubt Oliver's sincerity in wanting to defend the helpless...but his motivation needs a lot of work at times. It must be difficult to sustain it over the long-term, and sometimes he has trouble controlling himself.

[BillBoeBaggins]

I like that they disagree. Ollie doesn't make it easy for CK at all.They both try to hold each other accountable

Standard Convo:
CK: Why are you doing ..... ?!!?!
OQ: Because while your busy not helping I was ....!!!!
CK: (rage dissipates as understanding takes place) Oh, well still ... (with a tinge of whiny)
Rinse---Repeat..

[umm]

No, Oliver is completely right, more often than not Clark needs a kick in the ....! It is quite dissappointing, that after all his time he is still pining over Lana, over his 'normal' life with Lana, or should I say an image of her, I men grow up already!!!

[Smallville Vamp]

I voted other.

I've been trying to figure out what was going on with Oliver in this episode and started to think maybe he & Chloe are on the same page in thinking Clark is OBLIVIOUS to the fact he's hurting(or about to hurt) Lois going for another ride on the Clana train!!!

Oliver seems more than a little pissed at Clark, maybe he's even feeling guilty or responsible for Lana being back in town at the moment knowing how crushed Lois would be IF those two should happen to get back together again.

[unfocused]

Good point. I certainly hope that's one of the reasons Ollie is a bit angry at Clark. He did see that Lois really likes him. I like how he wants to remain friends with Lois even after the separation.

But still, Oliver is the one that invited Lana back to town. I'm surprised the people that hate Lana aren't even a little mad at Oliver for that :lol:

[cksidekick]

it's a common thing for heros to think they know how to best use Superman's powers...Oliver isn't to the point of trying to make Clark his puppet, but he does want Clark to get off the bench and get in the game...

Clark investigates...it's what he does....Then he goes out to kick a little butt...i feel like Oliver thinks his physical abilities should be used more than his mind...very unBatman like...( i made a joke about it in the quotes thread) though Batman would want him to find a balance...

[unfocused]

it's a common thing for heros to think they know how to best use Superman's powers...

Ouch. But yeah, no one does Superman like Superman does Superman. And I wouldn't trust Oliver with Superman's abilities. Not after Rage.

[Smallville Vamp]

But still, Oliver is the one that invited Lana back to town. I'm surprised the people that hate Lana aren't even a little mad at Oliver for that :lol:

Oh my hate is such a strong word, I don't HATE her I just don't LIKE her very much. :p

As far as being mad at Oliver for bringing her back with him I know what MY answer to that is, but I'm not sure if all this is too off topic to talk about here so I'm not taking it further(don't wanna get banned on my 1st day, lol) but I do think this would make another excellent poll *hint hint*:D

[unfocused]

Are you insinuating that I make a lot of polls, thus insinuating that I make too many polls?

Lol just kidding. Polls are awesome if they get the members involved. Anyhoo, I understand the dislike. Ever since Magnetic... gawd I don't even want to think of her in that episode. So nevermind.

But anyway, if Ollie's gonna be bringing stuff back with him to Smallville, then he has a whole new problem :p

[lifelovedestiny]

I believe its misunderstanding, I mean he is so rich whats there to be jealous of? He just doesn't understand why Clark hadn't already been saving people with the whole double identity thing from the start.

[roccanater]

Misunderstanding.

[Jaderoyale]

I was really annoyed with Oliver in this episode if i'm totally honest with you.
He just didn't seem to know what he was thinking half the time.

[wolverine316]

Oliver has this love/hate thing with Clark because Ollie is a jealous @$#%

[tonnmiister]

misunderstanding, he cant get that clark might wont a life free of constantly saving people, and instead wanting to have happiness, i also dont get how oliver manages to mention that hes a better hero than clark ever will be at every turn, i mean not every single human needs to be a hero, just because olivers a big loner without a lana like love interest, lois just wasnt enough for him to want to quit being the green arrow

[yaseen101]

I don't see much of the Batman/Superman thing, I see more of the comic book Oliver Queen. The comics Oliver Queen does go on rants/rages and he is the comic book 'hippy' and one of the few characters with a political alignment. I see the same Oliver Queen but with a more calm and collected but also a hot-air balloon which could burst at anytime.

[petitemimi]

I think Oliver's problem is that he overstayed his welcome in Smallville and the writers are already out of ideas about what to do with him.

[BadToad]

Oliver has this love/hate thing with Clark because Ollie is a jealous @$#%

That about sums it up for me.

I actually thought the Clark/Oliver conflict in this episode was very fake and manufactured, and seemed to just be there for conflicts sake. I don't mind the 2 of them butting heads on occasion, but I think its just getting ridiculous now.

[zorasuperman]

misunderstanding def
he just doesnt see why clark isnt superman by now. well even not superman, but at least out there and saving the world as a full time job. or more often.

[ZODisGOD]

oliver misunderstood.
Clark should continuing lecturing Oliver like since Identity.

[Bizarrolover]

Ollie sounds ... bitter. Apparently he thinks he can do no wrong and can't accept when other move at their own pace. I understand he wants to push Clark forward, but he shouldn't forget about his own misteps.

[Throwback24]

Mr.Oliver is just speaking his mind, Clark could use a couple of honest friends for a change.

[cksidekick]

i have watched the argument at the farm house a few more times...i have decided that i blame my dis-satisfaction with the scene on the director...as written, i don't think there is anything wrong with the conversation. but the tension in the scene was layed on a bit too thick...don't get me wrong, it's nice to see Clark and Oliver passionate about helping people in their own ways, but they could have made the tension in the scene dramatic without Oliver's attitude getting Clark so riled up...

[LuckyLois]

ZodisGod, I LOVE your AVI!! It's perfect!!:lol:

[Darth Pipes]

I don't know what's up with Oliver and I don't think it's helping the character. His motivation for killing Lex because of what his FATHER did is inexcuseable. Believe me, I think Lex should be taken out because he's evil but do it for that reason. Oliver's attempt to kill Lex cannot and should not be justified.

I did get a kick out of him brushing off Clark's 17,747th guilt trip and I can't blame him for being all pissy with Clark because Clark is a major jack*** with just about everyone he works with. Especially in the super hero business.

[razta]

yeah.. Oliver just seems misunderstood.. quite rightly, cos most likely MM has told the whole story to GA/OQ off camera, about Clark, Jor-El, etc.. and so rightly so.. Clarks just still sitting there with all that power in that respect..

[Hopefulsuicide]

Ollie is like my voice on the show. So why he is so angry at Clark and constantly lecturing him mirrors my own constant complaints about Clark's character.

I particularly loved the brushing off of Clark's guilt issues.

However, i do think Ollie can be too bitter about it. I mean he's not being very tactful, and constantly yelling at Clark isn't going to make him trust you. Ollie is far from perfect, but i get the impression that procrastination instead of action is one of Ollie's pet hates and that's why he get's so angry about it.

I mean wouldn't you be pissed off if you, a regular man, were putting your neck on the line, and a guy with Super powers was just sitting looking at files instead of just going out and putting those powers too use?

[Tompouce]

I think it is misunderstanding. As I said in another topic, I can understand why Ollie gives some advices to Clark but I definitively hate the way it is done. It is rude, without any respect.
I don't like people who can explain peacefully things. Ollie is agressive with Clark. Even if Clark needs someone to help him to find his way. If someone speaks to me as Ollie speaks to Clark, even if I am a peaceful person (I think lol), I would be very very agressive too ! I don't understand why Clark accepts this.
At the end, what matters is they are friends and they trust each other

[Lobby4Chloe]

I think Clark and Oliver are like oil and water in the comics too for one reason or another. I think they just have different personalities that don't always gel together that great. I think they respect each other, but if they didn't have the crime fighting thing in common would probably not naturally be friends.

[cksidekick]

Ollie is like my voice on the show. So why he is so angry at Clark and constantly lecturing him mirrors my own constant complaints about Clark's character.

I particularly loved the brushing off of Clark's guilt issues.

However, i do think Ollie can be too bitter about it. I mean he's not being very tactful, and constantly yelling at Clark isn't going to make him trust you. Ollie is far from perfect, but i get the impression that procrastination instead of action is one of Ollie's pet hates and that's why he get's so angry about it.

I mean wouldn't you be pissed off if you, a regular man, were putting your neck on the line, and a guy with Super powers was just sitting looking at files instead of just going out and putting those powers too use?


I think it is misunderstanding. As I said in another topic, I can understand why Ollie gives some advices to Clark but I definitively hate the way it is done. It is rude, without any respect.
I don't like people who can explain peacefully things. Ollie is agressive with Clark. Even if Clark needs someone to help him to find his way. If someone speaks to me as Ollie speaks to Clark, even if I am a peaceful person (I think lol), I would be very very agressive too ! I don't understand why Clark accepts this.
At the end, what matters is they are friends and they trust each other


this is what i'm getting at...and it's not that i want Oliver to change...if they want to write him as a hot head then i'm all for it...i wish they would get a bit more political with him, but that's a thread all it's own...

anyway, Clark allways seems to get too defensive about it...all that whining, and debate, and emotianal boy drama needs to go...Clark can argue with Oliver and hear his point of view (even admit Oliver has the best plan of action) without feeling like he needs to defend his methods...

Oliver wanted Clark to stop reading the playbook and get on the field...Clark didn't need to explain himself to Oliver...he was on the job and making progress...

[Myrddin]

I put misunderstanding. Oliver doesn't really know Clark and all he has done for his friends and the world. Take, for instance, Oliver didn't know anything about the phantoms and that Clark saved the world by getting rid of a huge threat. Oliver is judging Clark by what he has seen on the surface and there is so much more to Clark and Ollie hasn't a clue. Because Clark is humble and doesn't brag, Ollie may never know the real Clark, imo.


All very true. Plus, there probably is some jealousy on Ollie's side.

I always saw the Clark/Ollie relationship as the opposite of the Clark/Lex relationship.

With Clark and Lex, on the surface they seemed to be best friends. But underneath it all, they never trusted each other.

Clark and Ollie are just the opposite. On the surface they are not friends at all. But when it domes down to it - they trust and respect each other.

I love the Clark and Ollie dynamic. I love that Ollie does not hero-worship Clark (or maybe he does and that is the problem???). But sometimes I do wish that Clark would tell Ollie a few home truths. Of course, he can't because that would not be Clark. So that is why I would LOVE a scene between Red-K Clark and Ollie.

One other thing - I wish they would explore that fact that Ollie said to Chloe that he did not get involved "with all that stuff" - meaning Clark not being human. There does seem to be a part of Ollie that is not comfortable with Cal-El. Which is perfectly understandable. But I would like to see it explored.

[borednow]

Neither sees the other through Rose-tinted glasses, they both push one another to be better heroes so it's a good thing. Clark thinks Oliver is too extreme at times and Oliver thinks Clark is too passive... both are right.

[BULLITT]

Arrow lodged in butt. It's getting old.

[razta]

Mind you, at the end of the Episode, when MM Lectured both of them.. surely now they'll put their Egos aside and work as a TEAM

[Night-Wolf]

Neither sees the other through Rose-tinted glasses, they both push one another to be better heroes so it's a good thing. Clark thinks Oliver is too extreme at times and Oliver thinks Clark is too passive... both are right.

My thoughts exactly.:D

[Animation]

I put other. Clark and Ollie are both forces for good, but they have a different philosophy overall. So, "OTHER: Philosophical Differences."

Lewis

[SacredK]

Misunderstanding, Oliver doesn't understand why Clark isn't the hero he is, with all that power

I don't think folks quite get Clark. Lana seems to, maybe Chloe and if Lois got the chance I'm sure she would.

[Sunny8]

He seems to have some kind of personal love/hate thing going on with Clark in his own head every few episodes, lol.

I mean here is a guy that steals info from his ally, uses it to seek revenge, destroying what he thought was Lex without making sure it wasn't an innocent person, abusing a drug and quitting crime fighting altogether for a time. And he has the audacity to judge Clark.

One thing I love about Oliver is he has helped put perspective in Clark's life with his speeches and his own mistakes. But to hate him every now and then just because he isn't that perfect person he thinks he should be... is strange. I think Clark's speech to him about saving people (truly saving them means turning their life around) had a hidden message from the writers. Probably referring to how Oliver chooses to be angry and argumentative with a problem before attempting to fix it.

This episode no doubt sent the message that teamwork is important. Maybe from now on Oliver will confront Clark, and anyone else, before being a jerk.

Anyway, my question is why do you think Oliver has been a loose cannon, getting angry with Clark before even confronting him and actually letting him know he is angry?

I think Oliver thinks Clark, having the superpowers that he has, is not doing as much as he thinks he should be doing. Clark has been judged by both Lana and Oliver regarding having his powers and not doing what they think he should be doing with them. Of course, they might be a little jealous.

[unfocused]

I agree. Their fights are about Clark not manning up when he knows he has this incredible power. But Oliver's mistake is that he thinks Clark is afraid, and I'm sure Clark loses respect points from Ollie because of this. But the truth is, and it's been explained to us many many times in the show and it's also canon, a part of Clark just wants to be normal. And Oliver needs to understand that, Clark has lived his entire life this way, hiding from everyone, lying to his friends, and keeping secrets. And it's cost him relationships and friendships.

The worst part of the secret is that he was never able to live a normal life. One of the major points of Smallville is to show us how Clark goes through this tough time and eventually decides that the world needs a hero, more than he needs a normal life.

On the flip side, Clark needs to understand that Oliver tries hard to be something that Clark could, seemingly, easily be. Oliver does envy Clark. He sees all his power, but hardly any motivation. And he get's angry. If only Oliver had those powers.

[Hopefulsuicide]

I agree. Their fights are about Clark not manning up when he knows he has this incredible power. But Oliver's mistake is that he thinks Clark is afraid, and I'm sure Clark loses respect points from Ollie because of this. But the truth is, and it's been explained to us many many times in the show and it's also canon, a part of Clark just wants to be normal. And Oliver needs to understand that, Clark has lived his entire life this way, hiding from everyone, lying to his friends, and keeping secrets. And it's cost him relationships and friendships.


There are a few problems with this.

Yes when he was younger, and just trying to fit in, we could all understand him not doing more to help people. but as he gets older, and as other less privileged heroes set examples of what he could be doing, it becomes more difficult for the audience and for Oliver to accept.

Because the 'i just want to be normal' opinion that Clark has is insulting to Ollie. I don't believe Ollie ever thought Clark was afraid, just that he was selfish and lazy. That he isn't willing to sacrifice his love, his friends, his normal life in order to save millions of people...

I mean even Ollie understands getting a balance. You have to have enough of a normal life to stay happy or you will just be a resentful hero. But i think he feels Clark is not even attempting to find that balance.

What we have seen in season 8 is Clark zipping around saving people... and now his lines to Lana before kissing her say to me that he resents it... and that's just not right

----- Added 3 Minutes later -----




The worst part of the secret is that he was never able to live a normal life. One of the major points of Smallville is to show us how Clark goes through this tough time and eventually decides that the world needs a hero, more than he needs a normal life.

i wish i could have a good old chat with Clark... because he doesn't have to sacrifice a normal life in order to be a better hero... that's the whole point of his secret identity. I mean not so much if you look at pre crisis, but definately in post crisis



On the flip side, Clark needs to understand that Oliver tries hard to be something that Clark could, seemingly, easily be. Oliver does envy Clark. He sees all his power, but hardly any motivation. And he get's angry. If only Oliver had those powers.

I agree i think Ollie wishes that he had been born with the advantages Clark has and is resentful that Clark doesnt see them as a gift. He is a hero, in a totally different way than Clark in that he goes looking for things to do, and he wants to make a difference. Clark will save people on the brink of death but he's not as concerned with the big picture. it's very different for both of them

[unfocused]

There are a few problems with this.

Yes when he was younger, and just trying to fit in, we could all understand him not doing more to help people. but as he gets older, and as other less privileged heroes set examples of what he could be doing, it becomes more difficult for the audience and for Oliver to accept.
Clark is still young. Our opinions of the age he should be when he chooses to accept that he isn't normal is just that, our opinions. Just like it is his own. The difference? HE get's to choose when to realize he isn't normal. If that upsets you or Oliver, tough. You're going to have to deal with it until he does become that hero we all know he will soon become. Me? I'm going to let Clark become Superman at his own pace, as should everyone, including Oliver. We all know he isn't going to be 50, or even 25, when he becomes Superman. He's going to become Superman really, really soon. Months.


I mean even Ollie understands getting a balance. You have to have enough of a normal life to stay happy or you will just be a resentful hero. But i think he feels Clark is not even attempting to find that balance.
Clark has been trying to live a normal life while being the hero for over seven years. To say that he does not understand there needs to be a balance is just ignoring that. His point to Lana was that the world doesn't have to come before love, there can be a balance. These are the times where he learns about this, just before he becomes Superman, as it should be. In the comics, Superman already knows this, but he didn't always, he had to learn at some point.


i wish i could have a good old chat with Clark... because he doesn't have to sacrifice a normal life in order to be a better hero... that's the whole point of his secret identity. I mean not so much if you look at pre crisis, but definately in post crisis
Clark's going to learn this on his own. We're in the storyline that teaches him this. Superman learned that lesson first hand, it's pretty cool that we get to see it first hand.

[Hopefulsuicide]

but how has he not learned all these things yet?

i mean in old mythos terms, when he was just a normal boy raised on a farm in smallville with no excitement, you could see why he wouldnt become a hero

but when heroes are all around him, when people have told him time and again that he will succeed in doing great things, when his importance and his greateness has been pushed home... why would it take him that long?

[cksidekick]

it realy is ALL about finding that balance...and Danny Turpin was the one who taught Superman this lesson...we have simply not seen an episode yet in which he puts what a Police Officer taught him into action...it could have easily been a fire fighter, or a peramedic...but then we would not have gotten Danny Turpin...

Clark saves the day, inspired a cop to turn from the dark side, learned a lesson about motives and balance from Danny, taught Oliver that ispiration is their ULTIMATE goal, attended what is officaly the highest level Justice League meeting so far, and then went to his "family"...........Lana...*sigh*....ugh! point is, he will use this lesson soon enough with Lois..

[smallvillerocks45]

I agree. Their fights are about Clark not manning up when he knows he has this incredible power. But Oliver's mistake is that he thinks Clark is afraid, and I'm sure Clark loses respect points from Ollie because of this. But the truth is, and it's been explained to us many many times in the show and it's also canon, a part of Clark just wants to be normal. And Oliver needs to understand that, Clark has lived his entire life this way, hiding from everyone, lying to his friends, and keeping secrets. And it's cost him relationships and friendships.

The worst part of the secret is that he was never able to live a normal life. One of the major points of Smallville is to show us how Clark goes through this tough time and eventually decides that the world needs a hero, more than he needs a normal life.

On the flip side, Clark needs to understand that Oliver tries hard to be something that Clark could, seemingly, easily be. Oliver does envy Clark. He sees all his power, but hardly any motivation. And he get's angry. If only Oliver had those powers.


I agree with a lot of what you said, but I also think that part of what makes Clark so special is that his hesitance also means he isn't so quick to kill. Yes, he has had his moments where he really wanted to (i.e. Vengeance and Pariah), but at the end of the day, I just don't think Clark would do it... Oliver would.