Plot Loopholes?

[Newb]

Hiro once AGAIN didn't stop time to escape from Arthur.

The Haitian become weak after a few moments in Arthur's presence

If Arthur of the future knew where to find Hiro, then surely he would've jumped to the future to see how he died

Sylar not taking Arthur's brain that had Peter's powers?

What about Arthur's ring

Any way, I can see there being problems with the show and the new super Army and introducing new characters.

[ChronX4]

Hiro once AGAIN didn't stop time to escape from Arthur.

The Haitian become weak after a few moments in Arthur's presence

If Arthur of the future knew where to find Hiro, then surely he would've jumped to the future to see how he died

Sylar not taking Arthur's brain that had Peter's powers?

What about Arthur's ring

Any way, I can see there being problems with the show and the new super Army and introducing new characters.

It was an unexpected attack, Hiro needs to focus to stop time.

Arthur was actively fighting the Haitian's powers, unlike the last time.

Sylar was the unexpected part of the equation

Not sure about the ring.

I know, I cringed when I saw season 2 and what would have happened if it had continued.

[JW_102792]

Even if Hiro stopped time, Arthur has the same power, it wouldn't effect him. If he teleported, Arthur could teleport then use Molly's power that Peter had (Peter should've had it, I'm assuming that's how he knew where Hiro was; I completely forget if it was explained how else he knew where he was)

Arthur has so many powers, it makes sense the Haitian would get weak trying to block them all, the same way Matt gets a nosebleed trying to read minds around the Haitian.

Arthur seeing how he died was the least of his problems, Hiro could've stopped him. He was probably too "Im so awesome" that he thought he wouldn't die.

Sylar seems to be very "not care" right now. About anything. He only took the lie detector person's powers so he could find out the truth. Maybe he didn't care about Arthur's powers.

What about Arthur's ring?

The super army thing is kind of dumb, because in the 4 years in the future episode, they were JUST creating the army. Hopefully they'll explain that Nathan doesn't go through with it until those 4 years have gone by, or something.

[Newb]

Hiro was surprised again... I dont think the same excuse can be used twice in a row. It's just bad writing, I think.

Arthur being THAT powerful? I don't buy it.

So, it wouldve been more interesting if Hiro and Arthur played cat and mouse going back and forth in time.

Of course Sylar cares about powers.

The ring has some major significance. Dont know what and that was just left out.

The only thing about that scene that was consistent was Peter's hesitation, like Arthur said, too much thinking, not enough action.

I think people need to stop making excuses or rationalizing the jagged writing and come to the realization that the show has too many plot holes and that will be it's undoing.

[Lawliet]

Well I can envision Hiro being surprised because no-one expected Arthur to travel back in time. People were wondering how Arthur even knew that quickly that they were there

[Ginx]

Well I can envision Hiro being surprised because no-one expected Arthur to travel back in time. People were wondering how Arthur even knew that quickly that they were there

I think Hiro was surprised because the audience was surprised and since it seems like we're finding out things the same time as Hiro and Peter etc - whereas characters like Arthur and Angela had inside tracks. So yeah, I'd buy Hiro was taken by surprise.

He also let his guard down with Sylar. Wonder why he trusted that he could control him so much? There has to be more to the story!

[STFanatic]

Where did Sylar get the lighter fluid?

How did Sylar get from the beach to the office building and, get the uniform so fast?

I can kinda guess that he took the uniform and package from a delivery person, but how so fast? :\

[Lawliet]

My theory is that they got teleported there at night, Sylar was done with Elle by early morning and had a chance to find lighter fluid (still makes no sense where he got a half full canister anyways), by mid morning he got back to the city, he gets a delivery uniform and by mid afternoon he kills her
sounds right i think

[Newb]

My theory is that they got teleported there at night, Sylar was done with Elle by early morning and had a chance to find lighter fluid (still makes no sense where he got a half full canister anyways), by mid morning he got back to the city, he gets a delivery uniform and by mid afternoon he kills her
sounds right i think

Um...Cough :lol:

[Lawliet]

yes maybe I over did it...

[rocana]

It totally think Sylar not at least trying to get Arther's power is the biggest plot hole of this episode. How can he not care about getting pretty much the most powerful power of them all? And how could he not care about getting the 2nd most powerful power, who is the Haitian? He just leaves them behind for no reason at all. The real reason it would've made Sylar too powerful for the show.... Just another example of the writer's dumbing down the characters to advance the plot.... sigh.

[STFanatic]

That is the thing about Sylar, he lives in the moment, he doesn't need to hurry because at least in his mind, he can always get them later.

Plus, he said he has a big shopping list on that phone.

[JW_102792]

Hiro was surprised again... I dont think the same excuse can be used twice in a row. It's just bad writing, I think.

Arthur being THAT powerful? I don't buy it.

So, it wouldve been more interesting if Hiro and Arthur played cat and mouse going back and forth in time.

Of course Sylar cares about powers.

The ring has some major significance. Dont know what and that was just left out.

The only thing about that scene that was consistent was Peter's hesitation, like Arthur said, too much thinking, not enough action.

I think people need to stop making excuses or rationalizing the jagged writing and come to the realization that the show has too many plot holes and that will be it's undoing.

Oh trust me, I have no problem admitting the show has it's fair share of plot holes, I just don't think these are.

Having it in "the rules of time travel" that two time travelers can't stop each other is how they've explained it, it's not an excuse they used. It's just how it is. Yeah, he was probably surprised to see Arthur, but that changes nothing. His power would do nothing.

Why can't you "buy" Arthur being powerful? He has all of Peter's powers, he's manipulative, he's pretty evil, he's smart. Very Sylar-like, but people don't complain about him.

The Sylar not taking Arthur's power thing I can agree with, that's a fair complaint, however easily explained. The writers said they took away Peter's powers because he was too powerful. If Sylar took all of Arthur's powers, he would've been to powerful and they would've had to kill him or take away his powers. You can't have a completely unstoppable villain like Sylar, who's smart, and a fan favourite, and keep him around for more than a season.

I still don't see what you're saying about the ring. It's just his wedding ring. It wasn't left out, it's just not important. It's a ring.

Again, I completely agree the show has it's problems, it's plot holes, but these aren't some of them, as far as I'm concerned. You say people need to stop ignoring the plot holes, I think people need to stop being so quick to call something a plot hole. Think about it first, it might be easily explained.

[Lawliet]

and if he were to take arthur's power wouldn't he just get his basic one?

[Newb]

That is the thing about Sylar, he lives in the moment, he doesn't need to hurry because at least in his mind, he can always get them later.

Plus, he said he has a big shopping list on that phone.
Yes. And when Arthur is being embalmed, he'll take that part of the brain that he needs. :D

----- Added 10 Minutes later -----



You say people need to stop ignoring the plot holes, I think people need to stop being so quick to call something a plot hole. Think about it first, it might be easily explained.
Well....technically, everything can be explained or justified. It all depends on whether you accept the explanation or not. Does that make them any less of a plot hole? I dont think so.

[littlefoo20]

I have many questions:

1. Is the catalyst lost forever now that Arthur is dead?
2. When did Arthur get time traveling powers?
3. Was giving Hiro the catalyst all in vain?
4. Is Angela really sylar's mommy?
5 Will Peter ever grow a pair?

[Newb]

I have many questions:

1. Is the catalyst lost forever now that Arthur is dead?
2. When did Arthur get time traveling powers?
3. Was giving Hiro the catalyst all in vain?
4. Is Angela really sylar's mommy?
5 Will Peter ever grow a pair?

The answers to these questions and more will be answered on next weeks episode of Soap...oh, wait a minute...I just teleported back to the 80's. :lol:

[littlefoo20]

The answers to these questions and more will be answered on next weeks episode of Soap...oh, wait a minute...I just teleported back to the 80's. :lol:

LOL.. to be followed by an episode of Benson.

[Newb]

LOL.. to be followed by an episode of Benson.
Hahaha.

[STFanatic]

Papa Petrelli got the time shift powers when he took all of Peter's accumulated powers.

[ChronX4]

Well....technically, everything can be explained or justified. It all depends on whether you accept the explanation or not. Does that make them any less of a plot hole? I dont think so.

Then by your logic everything not explained in one episode is a plot hole.

[Newb]

Then by your logic everything not explained in one episode is a plot hole.
Sigh...do people have reading comprehension issues?

And no. When situations or events are not consistent within the realm of the show or series, it becomes a plot hole.

[BaGz]

not sure what you mean about the ring? I missed something if it has significance. I for one am not going to judge anything until next week's episode.

[FoxHoundito]

Disclaimer: (According to reference.com: "A plot hole is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot. [...] Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story [...]")

Well, so here's what I've been thinking of, mostly from this episode and just one from before. It's all I can remember right now...


1) If it was so easy to remove the catalyst from someone, why did Arthur went through so much trouble to get it? I mean, he could've teleported where Claire was and take it away from her pretty easily. Instead, he sent two of his subordinates to kidnap Claire... why so much trouble? And he certainly knew that before her it was Hiro's mom that owned it. Then why didn't he travel back in time and stole it from her before Hiro obtained ir?

After this episode, the way things have developed until now seems pretty unrealistic...

2) How come when Sylar entered the room the Haitian was holding Arthur's powers back but not Sylar's?? I always thought the Haitian's power was passive, not active, and although he may have to concentrate to supress strong individuals (like Arthur), his abbility should apply to anyone nearby. Yet, when Sylar showed up, he was completely unaffected.

3) Why do they insist in saying that they should shoot people with regenerating abilities in the back of their heads? We've seen it before with Claire and the branch, Peter and the piece of glass. If it was the only way to disable their power (except for blowing their heads up with a shotgun), then this episode's bullet shouldn't have killed Arthur (by the looks of it, it did, because the catalyst kind of died... and that only happened if the vessel permanently died too).

4) One could argue Sylar was a dumbass not trying to take Arthur's power away (we still don't exactly know wether he could've gained every power Arthur has stolen or if he could only have stolen his original power... that - I guess - is permanently stealing powers). That would've meant to Sylar not needing to kil people in order to obtain their powers... but considering the villain Sylar "should" be by now, why would he care about this? He enjoys all the killing. Besides, he has presumably developped the empathy ability, so passive duplication of powers may be there with him too... he doesn't need more ways to gain gifts.


5) Has Sylar become so used to cutting in half people's heads that he can't come up with another way of murdering? He had already absorbed Elle's power by supposedly becoming an empath (big wtf moment), so he surely needen't kill her the way he did. He has so many powers he could've made it a different way... but hey, it's Sylar's killing trademark!

6) (From previous episode) Why on earth would Arthur stimulate Sylar to become an empath if that could've meant him obtaining Arthur's stealing power (and maybe all of the other ones he's stolen), thus creating a more powerful human being than him, which could've posed a major threat to his hierarchy?

Conclusions:

I know that a show like Heroes has created a world far too complex to have a perfect outcome in every episode. I don't expect the story to be a "clockwork orange" but there are some turns that can't be omitted by viewers and that really deteriorate the fictional flow of the show. And even if it is fiction, character's have got to have an attitude pattern, there always has to be a fundamental logic for the story to succeed... and lately, Heroes has been lacking of those coherence and cohesion basic elements more than ever.

[Yoshua]

1- Claire never owned it, alot of us believed it was always in Hiro, and this confirms it. However Arthur wouldn't have made a move against Kaito back in the day, so he had to find out when the transfer happened. Safe to say he did and this is what always happened. I don't think Hiro or Claire changed anything. Nor do I think Sylar sensed the catalyst. Her specialness is in her living forever.

2- This episode shows that the Haitians powers have limits. I don't think he was strong enough to stop Sylars while concentrating on Arthurs. On top of that Arthur broke the hold at the last minute and slapped Peter's gun away. Hatian was drained. Good luck trying to use those abilities on Sylar who has already had them used on him multiple times and is finding the way to circumvent them.

3- A small gun such as a .22 doesnt typically go through the head when you shoot someone. It riccochets all through the brain mangling it. That being said that is the cannon they want to stick to.

4- Cutting Arthur open in front of the hatian and Peter would have left him vulnerable, he would have had to kill them both first. A better question was why didnt he go after the hatian? That would have made him invincible.

5- Serial Killers rarely break from their pattern. Look it up, it is very scary. He is a serial killer and that is his mode of killing.

6- To gain his trust.

7- Thanks for giving me a chance to answer your plot holes. But I don't really see any of them as plot holes to be honest.

----- Added 5 Minutes later -----

Do you want the only REAL loophole in the whole show if what your catalyst theory was the right one?


2 catalysts now.


If future claire goes back and stops the past claire from getting the catalyst then the future claire still has it. She is out of sync with time. When she goes back home she will still have the catalyst inside of her. Which also explains why arthur wouldnt kill her just in case they needed it again.


Just like when future peter comes back to change the past he still retains his scar.

The people from the future remain untouched when in the past. They don't know what changes they have made until they can go back and search them out on their own. They are out of sync with Time.



Claire is out of sync with time. She still has a catalyst in her blood if you are one of the people that believe she had it in the first place.


Personally I think Hiro always had it, so the catalyst is officially gone. But thats my opinion.

[FoxHoundito]

1. If your theory of the catalyst is the one, then no one had it for 16 years, until Hiro went back in time and obtained it from his mother. Then you can't say Hiro had it all the time. And what I meant is that Arthur could have got it by travelling back in time and getting it from Hiro's mom. I wasn't talking about making the move in that time, but jumping back now. Kaito would've never found out... And I don't think Arthur feared Kaito at all.

And following this theory, I don't think the catalyst is gone. If Claire never had it, and Arthur is now dead, it was previously introduced to the substance Mohinder synthesized, so I guess the catalyst could be isolated from the original formula (considering it's a catalyst and it doesn't react).

2. Sure, every power has its limits. But Arthur only managed to break the Haitian's hold for a sec, if not he would have confronted Sylar, destroyed the bullet, etc. I seriously doubt the Haitian was "drained" and I still think the passive aspect of his ability should have affected Sylar.

3. Could be.

4. I also thought of that but forgot to post it. Anyway I still beleive that the Haitian should've always supressed Sylar's power, so he could've never acted either way (not even stop the bullet and etc.).

5. This was just a commentary, wasn't stating a "plot hole", my bad.

6. Too risky to be Arthur's best choice of trust gaining.

7. Your welcome, and your always entitled to your opinion as I am to mine.

[kevin_video]

Papa Petrelli got the time shift powers when he took all of Peter's accumulated powers.
So then here's my question. Why the hell didn't Arthur take his powers in the first place, and just erase his memories? Because he wasn't sure exactly who had the catalyst?

[Yoshua]

If your theory of the catalyst is the one, then no one had it for 16 years, until Hiro went back in time and obtained it from his mother. Then you can't say Hiro had it all the time. And what I meant is that Arthur could have got it by travelling back in time and getting it from Hiro's mom. I wasn't talking about making the move in that time, but jumping back now. Kaito would've never found out... And I don't think Arthur feared Kaito at all.

And following this theory, I don't think the catalyst is gone. If Claire never had it, and Arthur is now dead, it was previously introduced to the substance Mohinder synthesized, so I guess the catalyst could be isolated from the original formula (considering it's a catalyst and it doesn't react).

For the rest of the "plot holes" I mentiones, I'll edit later.

Hiro had it the entire time. She died, gave it to him, and the Arthur took it.

So correct, no one had it for 16 years. Do you think the project of giving powers to people would have just STOPPED had it been available to them? With everything we know about the company? Time is relative to time travellers.

The catalyst being a human component was not a PART of them, but an ability someone had and could pass on. I think the catalyst was an ability. I think that the ability is either gone for good, or Current Time Claire has a duplicate of it in her body. But I don't think she does. It is an ability, she would have stumbled on how to use it by now.



First we all throught the catalyst was in the blood and Adam Monroe had it at first. Wasn't the case. It was in Hiro's mom and it was an ability.

[the highlander]

Linderman anyone?

[JW_102792]

I'm only going to answer the ones I have to add to, Yoshua said what I would've said.

The Haitian not being able to block Sylar; do you remember Angela saying how powerful he was a few episodes ago? Maybe he's so powerful he's able to get through the Haitian's blocking power. Or, as we saw with Arthur/Matt, with enough determination you can use your powers. Maybe he was so determined to get the truth it had no effect.

3. I agree, it's pretty dumb to say "in the back of the head" because it shouldn't matter if it's the back of the head (As long as the Haitian is there) because the bullets still gonna be in his head even if he gets his powers back. That's one of the biggest plotholes / I don't get it things for me. Assuming the healing power part of the brain is in the back of the head, that would explain why they say that, but once the healing part is all destroyed by the bullet, how would taking it out heal it? It should still be destroyed and unable to heal itself, because it's destroyed.

And Sylar not taking Arthur's powers, I'm sure he has his reasons; he doesn't care, didn't want to do it infront of Peter, wanted to escape before the Haitian could stop his powers. Who knows? Lots of possibilities.

[Newb]

A couple more plot holes. Not sure if they were mentioned. I'm just being lazy right now too go back and look at the previous posts ;):

1. Since Arthur knew where Hiro was and that he had the catalyst he couldve went back in time a long time ago to get the catalyst from Tamlyn (Hiro's mom) instead of trying to get it from Claire or even get it from Claire as a baby

2. Daphne, Ando, and Hartman all on Daphne's shoulders as they speedily went from one place to another. Daphne isnt a big girl, so there is no way she couldve carried them

3. How could Arthur just tap Claire and teleport her without him? Not even Hiro could do that

[JW_102792]

1. It's possible he thought going back and stealing it like that would mess up time way too much, but stealing it from Hiro after she had given it to him (If that's originally what has always happened) wouldn't change anything.

2. Well, we don't know how her power works, it might make anything she carries really light or something. It might just be one of those things you have to let go, that isn't necessarily a plot hole.

3. Arthur seems to have more control over every power he has more than the person who originally had it. It's not hard to believe that teleporting could evolve into being able to teleport someone without teleporting themselves. I believe someone has done it before, but I don't remember who/when. That's something you DEFINITELY can't call a plothole, since we have no idea how powers might evolve.

[Hopefulsuicide]

1. sylar - it has gotten to a point where his character no longer makes sense at all. at first he is shown as a man without conscience... then he is told his mommy and daddy love him and all of a sudden grows a conscience and starts to feel empathy for elle... then just as suddenly with no real explanation other than he is told his daddy isnt his daddy, his conscience dissapears again... and we are to believe that in the future he will again grow a conscience and look after his son

the whole 'hunger' thing confuses me. are we supposed to assume the hunger is 'to understand things'? cause if that's true, why is he killing again after learning how to understand things through empathy instead of hands on wiggling in the brain? is it just for the fun of it? and no i can't accept that if that is true he could ever be trusted to look after a child, let alone name it noah

and what the hell was that how empathy thing for anyway? i mean it seems ENTIRELY pointless now... and how did arthur know about it in the first place? at the time i assumed that peter arthur and sylar's powers were all connected cause arthur was their daddy... but now he isnt, so whats the connection?

why did he kill Elle anyway? it seems so illogical. he already had her power. did he just kill her so she wouldnt moan at him for killing people again? again i say, how on earth does he suddenly stop giving a sh*t?

2. Hiro - why do people keep trusting him? that's the second time this season he has been trusted with a part of the formula and had it taken from him in seconds. and i dont buy the whole 'he was too surprised too concentrate' thing. there was plenty of time between when arthur appeared to when arthur took the catalyst and his powers for hiro to shut his eyes... it takes less than a second to squeeze your eyes shut... we have seen hiro pop into the past in a second... so no i dont think that there was 'not enough time' for him to stop time, grab claire, and get the hell out of there...

had arthur used his telekenisis to freeze him while Hiro wasn't looking, i might have accepted it

but why did arthur send claire back powers and all. does he really see a girl with invulnerability that is on the other side as no threat? wouldnt you take the powers away just in case?

[Sharingan]

I'm just bothered by the fact that Present Day Claire is still alive since Sylar should've killed her when he opened her head and didn't see the Catalyst...

[JW_102792]

1. sylar - it has gotten to a point where his character no longer makes sense at all. at first he is shown as a man without conscience... then he is told his mommy and daddy love him and all of a sudden grows a conscience and starts to feel empathy for elle... then just as suddenly with no real explanation other than he is told his daddy isnt his daddy, his conscience dissapears again... and we are to believe that in the future he will again grow a conscience and look after his son

the whole 'hunger' thing confuses me. are we supposed to assume the hunger is 'to understand things'? cause if that's true, why is he killing again after learning how to understand things through empathy instead of hands on wiggling in the brain? is it just for the fun of it? and no i can't accept that if that is true he could ever be trusted to look after a child, let alone name it noah

and what the hell was that how empathy thing for anyway? i mean it seems ENTIRELY pointless now... and how did arthur know about it in the first place? at the time i assumed that peter arthur and sylar's powers were all connected cause arthur was their daddy... but now he isnt, so whats the connection?

why did he kill Elle anyway? it seems so illogical. he already had her power. did he just kill her so she wouldnt moan at him for killing people again? again i say, how on earth does he suddenly stop giving a sh*t?

2. Hiro - why do people keep trusting him? that's the second time this season he has been trusted with a part of the formula and had it taken from him in seconds. and i dont buy the whole 'he was too surprised too concentrate' thing. there was plenty of time between when arthur appeared to when arthur took the catalyst and his powers for hiro to shut his eyes... it takes less than a second to squeeze your eyes shut... we have seen hiro pop into the past in a second... so no i dont think that there was 'not enough time' for him to stop time, grab claire, and get the hell out of there...

had arthur used his telekenisis to freeze him while Hiro wasn't looking, i might have accepted it

but why did arthur send claire back powers and all. does he really see a girl with invulnerability that is on the other side as no threat? wouldnt you take the powers away just in case?

Sylar has always had the hunger, since Season 1. The Hunger is to get powers, to know things, that's why he kills, not because he "chooses" to, because the Hunger pretty much forces him to, as we've seen with Peter.

Sylar knew Elle was lying to him about his parents, so he killed her. He only cut her head open because that's how he kills, and like it was pointed out, serial killers rarely ever use a different method to kill someone.

The empathy thing I agree was pretty dumb. It would make sense if he's a Petrelli, but now he's not. Even if Angela is still his mother, Arthur isn't his father, and that would be the most logical place he would've got that power from. Also, as shown when he absorb Elle's power, he doesn't know how to use it properly. When he opens the head up and looks at the brain, he can see how it works, so he knows exactly how to use it. All the empathy does is make him like Peter, only he has to actually get to know the person, how they're feeling, etc. He doesn't just absorb random powers, like Peter does.

Hiro - How was his mother supposed to know he had screwed up? She believed him that he would protect it, which he WOULD HAVE, if Arthur wasn't so powerful. Even if Hiro could focus enough to stop time, Arthur has the same power, nothing would happen, then he would just TK him and steal his powers/Catalyst. Even if he just teleported away, Arthur could read his mind and know where he's going, and meet him there.

And yes, he didn't see her as a threat. To him, he's God. Nothing can stop him, Claire is pretty much powerless to him. The only thing she could do to hurt him is use a gun, and he could just TK the bullet / gun and she'd be useless again.

Sharingan - the Catalyst isn't what gives her powers. Even if she never had it, which I think she did before Hiro went back in time, she would still have her powers. Also, he has no reason to kill her, even if he could. He wanted her power, she was able to live through the process. He only kills everyone else because they can't live through the process.

[Yoshua]

A couple more plot holes. Not sure if they were mentioned. I'm just being lazy right now too go back and look at the previous posts ;):

1. Since Arthur knew where Hiro was and that he had the catalyst he couldve went back in time a long time ago to get the catalyst from Tamlyn (Hiro's mom) instead of trying to get it from Claire or even get it from Claire as a baby

2. Daphne, Ando, and Hartman all on Daphne's shoulders as they speedily went from one place to another. Daphne isnt a big girl, so there is no way she couldve carried them

3. How could Arthur just tap Claire and teleport her without him? Not even Hiro could do that


1- He did go back to the moment Hiro was vulnerable. Time is relative to time travellers.

2- Not on shoulders. THe web comic has shown daphne grabing the hand of people and taking them with her at super speeds.

3- He is much better at time travel than Hiro. And it shows one more facet of Hiro's power that he will be able to do when he is truly a master. People like Sylar and Arthur master the abilities much faster because they are accustomed to having multiple abilities and learning how they work. Peter is just slow.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


I'm just bothered by the fact that Present Day Claire is still alive since Sylar should've killed her when he opened her head and didn't see the Catalyst...

There is no proof that the catalyst has anything to do with powers other than the power itself to be the catalyst.

Nothing on screen says otherwise. Yes Hiro's mom was a healer. So was Linderman. That didn't make Linderman a catalyst or someone that could transfer his powers.


Not to mention she couldn't heal herself. If she could she wouldn't have been dieing. Claire doesn't heal others. Completely different abilities. And most likely unrelated to the catalyst.


On top of that, time and again, in this show it has been shown that time travel is relative. Future/current claire was out of sync with time. She would still have everything she ever had because she was not in the current time frame. And like I said before I don't think anything changed or else the entire future would have changed at that moment and nothing we saw would ever have happened. The comic book issue 1 showed hiro and claire there from the beginning. That means that in our current time line they were always destined to be there. Claire was NEVER the catalyst.

[FoxHoundito]

On top of that, time and again, in this show it has been shown that time travel is relative. Future/current claire was out of sync with time. She would still have everything she ever had because she was not in the current time frame. And like I said before I don't think anything changed or else the entire future would have changed at that moment and nothing we saw would ever have happened. The comic book issue 1 showed hiro and claire there from the beginning. That means that in our current time line they were always destined to be there. Claire was NEVER the catalyst.

You can't assure that Isaac's drawings always represent the original event of that timeline. In Season 1, Isaac painted a nuclear explosion in the heart of New York City, but that finally didn't happen (in that timeline it was just an explosion way up in the air). Hence, Isaac's painting was predicting an alternate future. So, this last issue of 9th wonders could represent directly the changing of the original events which, maybe, where other ones (like Claire originally having the catalyst).

Besides, what was it that Sylar found so "special" in Claire at the start of this season? It could be anything, but it's a strong hint that it was the catalyst...

[LOONEY]

A couple more plot holes. Not sure if they were mentioned. I'm just being lazy right now too go back and look at the previous posts ;):

1. Since Arthur knew where Hiro was and that he had the catalyst he couldve went back in time a long time ago to get the catalyst from Tamlyn (Hiro's mom) instead of trying to get it from Claire or even get it from Claire as a baby

2. Daphne, Ando, and Hartman all on Daphne's shoulders as they speedily went from one place to another. Daphne isnt a big girl, so there is no way she couldve carried them

3. How could Arthur just tap Claire and teleport her without him? Not even Hiro could do that

how do you know he can't do that? how do we know what powers he has besides the ones we saw? they could have been wheeling in ppl for him to steal their powers all year long who knows. Its just an advanced version of Hiro/Petes/Arty's power like how Parkman (not hartman)'s comes out eventually.

----- Added 2 Minutes later -----


I'm just bothered by the fact that Present Day Claire is still alive since Sylar should've killed her when he opened her head and didn't see the Catalyst...
he DID say that he COULDN"T kill her if he wanted too. I don't think that the reason she is so :"special" hasn't been determined yet.

[Yoshua]

You can't assure that Isaac's drawings always represent the original event of that timeline. In Season 1, Isaac painted a nuclear explosion in the heart of New York City, but that finally didn't happen (in that timeline it was just an explosion way up in the air). Hence, Isaac's painting was predicting an alternate future. So, this last issue of 9th wonders could represent directly the changing of the original events which, maybe, where other ones (like Claire originally having the catalyst).

Besides, what was it that Sylar found so "special" in Claire at the start of this season? It could be anything, but it's a strong hint that it was the catalyst...

It was misdirection. They do that alot in this show.

He found the fact that she will never die special. Otherwise Sylar has the catalyst now too. Because he said right after that she was special that he was too now.

[FoxHoundito]

It was misdirection. They do that alot in this show.

Congratulations for the news, that's what I was stating since my first post!


He found the fact that she will never die special. Otherwise Sylar has the catalyst now too. Because he said right after that she was special that he was too now.

I don't think that the specialness he found in her referred to her regenerating abilities. Yes, Sylar should be "immortal" too, but it was something else that he saw. In the future, when P. Peter met F. Claire, she highlighted how special she was, different from the rest... now according to your view that wouldn't be true since Peter also has Claire's power... so why would Claire stress a distinction like that? I beleive it is something else, and I guess it's the catalyst.

[Yoshua]

Congratulations for the news, that's what I was stating since my first post!

Then why ask the question?




I don't think that the specialness he found in her referred to her regenerating abilities. Yes, Sylar should be "immortal" too, but it was something else that he saw. In the future, when P. Peter met F. Claire, she highlighted how special she was, different from the rest... now according to your view that wouldn't be true since Peter also has Claire's power... so why would Claire stress a distinction like that? I beleive it is something else, and I guess it's the catalyst.

Not saying it isn't possible. But if that was the case then P Claire still has the catalyst in her body because she was out of sync with the changing of the past. She was THERE. So she would be untouched by the changing of the future.


And if they changed the future THAT much? There's no way that present day heroes would be as untouched as it is. That alone is why I am sticking to that she was never to have the Catalyst. Because if she had it, and then she hadn't? Their entire story lines would have unwravelled.

[Hopefulsuicide]

Sylar has always had the hunger, since Season 1. The Hunger is to get powers, to know things, that's why he kills, not because he "chooses" to, because the Hunger pretty much forces him to, as we've seen with Peter..

but if he can now get the powers and know things without killing, then the hunger is fullfilled... right? so we is it so hard to control... it doesnt hurt anyone anymore so it doesnt matter if he uses his hunger to share people's powers and knowledge...



Sylar knew Elle was lying to him about his parents, so he killed her. He only cut her head open because that's how he kills, and like it was pointed out, serial killers rarely ever use a different method to kill someone.

okay so that's a 'reason' for him to kill her, but it's not a reason for his newly found conscience and need to do what's right to suddenly dissapear... we were being led to believe that he had feelings for her... sure he would have been angry at her lying... but killing her seemed totally extreme



The empathy thing I agree was pretty dumb. It would make sense if he's a Petrelli, but now he's not. Even if Angela is still his mother, Arthur isn't his father, and that would be the most logical place he would've got that power from. Also, as shown when he absorb Elle's power, he doesn't know how to use it properly. When he opens the head up and looks at the brain, he can see how it works, so he knows exactly how to use it. All the empathy does is make him like Peter, only he has to actually get to know the person, how they're feeling, etc. He doesn't just absorb random powers, like Peter does..

i think even when he cuts off people's heads to get their power he has to used to their ability... i dont think that was just because of the empathy...



Hiro - How was his mother supposed to know he had screwed up? She believed him that he would protect it, which he WOULD HAVE, if Arthur wasn't so powerful. Even if Hiro could focus enough to stop time, Arthur has the same power, nothing would happen, then he would just TK him and steal his powers/Catalyst. Even if he just teleported away, Arthur could read his mind and know where he's going, and meet him there...

that's not the point... why would anyone give Hiro the catalyst, why would he even ask for it when Arthur has the same powers as him... he's about as safe as a kids piggy bank

give the catalyst the haitian or something, not Hiro...



And yes, he didn't see her as a threat. To him, he's God. Nothing can stop him, Claire is pretty much powerless to him. The only thing she could do to hurt him is use a gun, and he could just TK the bullet / gun and she'd be useless again.

but if you had the power to take powers, and it took a couple of seconds and didnt at all stop her from delivering the message... why on earth wouldnt you take them

it all boils down to - because the writers didnt want him too...

---

now don't even get me started on how impossible it shud have been for anyone to kill arthur

1. he's a pre cog... how did he not see it coming?
2. why had he done nothing about the hatian before... seeing as he is pretty much the only person to pose a danger to him, surely he would be investing all his resources in destroying him?
3. as soon as the haitian leaves the building, he shud heal right up...

[Xanderman]

^tons and tons of plotholes on this show, that's for sure. And like you said, what it boils down to in the end is the story/direction the writers want to take. Whatever needs to happen for the sake of the story, they do. And it's not always in a nice and neat package.

Peter Petrelli was one big long plothole himself, back when he had powers. He should have been unstoppable, but they covered themselves by making him stupid and gullible, like Clark on Smallville. Like you said, Arthur seemed to be one step ahead of everyone. He stole Hiro's powers (and the catalyst light thingie) out of nowhere, among other el cheapo supervillain acts (like when he similarly surprised Hiro in Africa and made him 10). But then Peter and the Haitian just walk into the building and kill him. Silly.

[Yoshua]

^tons and tons of plotholes on this show, that's for sure. And like you said, what it boils down to in the end is the story/direction the writers want to take. Whatever needs to happen for the sake of the story, they do. And it's not always in a nice and neat package.

Peter Petrelli was one big long plothole himself, back when he had powers. He should have been unstoppable, but they covered themselves by making him stupid and gullible, like Clark on Smallville. Like you said, Arthur seemed to be one step ahead of everyone. He stole Hiro's powers (and the catalyst light thingie) out of nowhere, among other el cheapo supervillain acts (like when he similarly surprised Hiro in Africa and made him 10). But then Peter and the Haitian just walk into the building and kill him. Silly.

That is what people said when Sylar got stabbed in season 1.

How a sword to the chest was enough to take down a supervillian. In my experience as an avid comic reader as a child the villians were almost always taken down by a mistake they made. Under estimating their foes being #1

[Xanderman]

That is what people said when Sylar got stabbed in season 1.Yeah that was similarly stupid, thanks for reminding me of that one buddy. I'll add it to the list I'm compiling. heh j/k

But yeah, over-confidence/underestimating others was the predictable direction to take Arthur's character to bring him down, I knew that's what they would do from the beginning (how he would end up losing). Godlike Peter's weakness was stupidity, and Arthur's was over-confidence. But it doesn't really make it that much less silly or plotholey, especially after everything we've seen him do.

[Hopefulsuicide]

i think it's just a huge flaw with heroes, that they give the characters too many powers to keep a handle on the continuity

i mean if they had just kept peter as someone who can have the same powers as people he is in the presence of, he wouldnt be unstoppable

i kind of like his power better that way anyway... it meant he was a perfect match for any fight really

with arthur and sylar... well it is simply so hard to keep track of all the powers they have... and you can take one situation and a list of their powers and run down a checklist going 'that could have stopped it, that could have stopped it, they could have done that' etc etc

[bamVINo]

2- This episode shows that the Haitians powers have limits. I don't think he was strong enough to stop Sylars while concentrating on Arthurs. On top of that Arthur broke the hold at the last minute and slapped Peter's gun away. Hatian was drained. Good luck trying to use those abilities on Sylar who has already had them used on him multiple times and is finding the way to circumvent them.



if hatian was drained, then why couldnt arthur use his power?like say stop time?

[Alexander III]

^tons and tons of plotholes on this show, that's for sure. And like you said, what it boils down to in the end is the story/direction the writers want to take. Whatever needs to happen for the sake of the story, they do. And it's not always in a nice and neat package.

Peter Petrelli was one big long plothole himself, back when he had powers. He should have been unstoppable, but they covered themselves by making him stupid and gullible, like Clark on Smallville. Like you said, Arthur seemed to be one step ahead of everyone. He stole Hiro's powers (and the catalyst light thingie) out of nowhere, among other el cheapo supervillain acts (like when he similarly surprised Hiro in Africa and made him 10). But then Peter and the Haitian just walk into the building and kill him. Silly.

Whoa :eek:

[Kal el of krypton]

some one should go back in time and bring adam monroe back lol

[LuthorKent90]

The only thing that bothered me was.. how did Sylar use his powers in front of the Haitian, yet Arthur could not in the same situation?:confused:

Surely even if Arthur managed to weaken the Haitian(but isn't it just his mere presence that does the trick), he would've been able to use his own powers and freeze time/ travel somewhere away from Sylar and the bullet. :confused:

[simdog]

the haitian had all his focus on arthur so anyone with powers would be free to use them around him but arthur then when arthur broke free from haitian and cut peter sylar grabbed him with tk taking arthurs focus from the haitian thus allowing him to null his power again.

[shadoo]

Plot Holes? No! No! NOOOOOO! But yes, they're more plot holes and all of them have been thoroughly violated. At least it keeps you interested, if for nothing else, they're daring bold and bipolar, and who isn't more fun than a bipolar person.

[CLARK&VERONICASBFF]

Papa Petrelli got the time shift powers when he took all of Peter's accumulated powers.

Wow, I forgot that he had Peter's accumulated powers. That was really bugging me.


If Sylar took all of Arthur's powers, he would've been to powerful and they would've had to kill him or take away his powers.

I think Sylar's power should be different from Peter and Arthur's powers. Peter's simply a mimic. Have we seen him use more than one power at a time? Sylar can alter his own DNA to use other powers, but Peter couldn't simply mimic his power, Sylar had to give it. Arthur seems to be a cross between the two, choosing to copy or take away powers altogether. But I agree that the writers won't let Sylar kill a power collector to not have to deal with the backlash.

[HWichita]

Arthur powers were not attainable by Sylar because the bullet messed up his brain!
I can buy that the Haitian was week from holding Daddy back that Sylar could use his powers even though this seems like the 1st time that has happened.
I agree they seem to dumb down the charactors to move the plot along.
When Peter lost his Empath powers seems his balls started to drop. and he got more clever.

They need to hire some guys that work at a comic book store to help them keep track of what they have done.
If they are going to keep using time travel (I wish they would cut way back on it) they need to set up some rules and stay consistent

[Newb]

Arthur powers were not attainable by Sylar because the bullet messed up his brain!
Lol. I am surprised it took someone this long to justify/rationalize the writers' bad writing and plot loop hole on why Sylar didnt go after Arthur's brain. Any way, it makes no difference that the bullet is in his head, only a the frontal cortex had a bullet in it, the entire brain is intact otherwise. To truly kill an immortal you have to cut the head off. Let's not get too technical here and have wishful thinking cuz the writers' certainly aren't. :)

[Hopefulsuicide]

besides, why shoot him in the first place instead of cutting his head open and stealing his powers?

[ReD-SpideR]

arent plot holes something that doesnt make sense in a perfect circle of of past a present?

technically alot of your "plot holes" are personal preference and fanboy whining of "it should of been this way". which is perfectly acceptable, but one must think; the season isnt over yet.. maybe some of your fustrations about these things will come to pass.

I too thought abou the Hiro cat and mouse thing, but if i remember correctly the show was turning close to its final minutes to be used for other scenes.

The writers are doing pretty good considering there writing about fictional theories and tying them into a real world story..

its alot hard to do then writting about who banged who in Greys Anatomy.

[TheManOfTommrow2]

short answer to all this plot holes
bad writing

[Yoshua]

short answer to all this plot holes
bad writing

most of these aren't plot holes

It is fans wishing it would have gone a different direction.

I think it went very smoothly because, especially with the comic book, nothing changed. Everything that happened has always happened in this time line. We aren't actually TOO anything that would have changed EXCEPT Nathan isn't dead. ETA: Wait nathan wasn't dead in the future either. So peter going back and shooting Nathan really did nothing. What a waste...

From the future peters perspective when he went back nothing had changed.

We are still in the present timeline so nothing that happens in the past will change what is happening now. Especially because it is written in the comic book. Hiro is meant to be back there. And he will eventually come back.

[Pixelate]

I think season 2 was the beginning of the end of a coherent storyline. It wasn't helped either by the writers strike. Something just wasn't right and they have had to use this season 3 to dig the story out again. Some scenes, at times, felt like they were written on the spot whiles filming. They do deserve some praise for sticking to their guns and riding it out. If you really think about heroes, it's nothing but fiction... lol, I try not to think too much..

[Clois4eva89]

How did Arthur end up in the past when Hiro went 16 yrs into the past.He didn't take Hiro's power until he was in the past at that moment. 'I'll take the catalyst and your power." Also how did he also teleport to Hiro's location before a few episodes back.And make Hiro think he was 10 yrs old again this season has too many plot holes.

[Xanderman]

How did Arthur end up in the past when Hiro went 16 yrs into the past.He didn't take Hiro's power until he was in the past at that moment. 'I'll take the catalyst and your power." Also how did he also teleport to Hiro's location before a few episodes back.And make Hiro think he was 10 yrs old again this season has too many plot holes.Arthur had Peter's powers, which included teleportation/time travel. When he took Hiro's power, he didn't gain anything new (aside from the catalyst), he just left Hiro powerless.

Arthur had "mind powers", what they were exactly hadn't been really made clear. But we were meant to assume he used a mind power to 10-yr-old-ify the dimwitted Hiro, who was basically 10 years old before that already anyway, so really, what was the point... lol